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Silawen
28th December 2005, 8:04 PM
I'm plotting out my story a bit and am planning something to happen in the Dark Cave. That's where I hit a problem. It's called the Dark Cave, but how dark is it exactly? In the game you need Flash to walk around, but how about in 'real-pokémon life'. Would you be able to see somewhat, would a Charmander's tail - for instance - be able to light the way, could you get lost in it, how big is it, etc.?

How do you envision the Dark Cave?

Yami Ryu
28th December 2005, 8:27 PM
I see the 'Flash' move having the pokemon out walking around with you, and it's probably better than having a fire pokemon out to an extent, though I've used the 'Char' option in Mt Moon in my fic, but there's more dangers to a Char, such as bad air, possible explodeable items or coal, or what not, and yeah, just to kinda make it realistic... or I could have gotten Mines confused with caves...

Anyways.

Yes you probably would get lost in the cave, as most caves are vast, dangerous and to not be traveled alone in, as though they look safe, they aren't. So it'd probably be a true test of the trainer's will and bravado. And probably how stupid they can be when they want to quickly get from point A to point B.

And pkmn wise I see it like this;

Pokemon like; Magmar, Lanturn, Charmander{meleon/zard} might have a radius of five to fifteen feet, maybe twenty, around themselves, or rather the light source they could provide. This could be cut in half as the light source wouldn't be able to be cast directly infront or behind on some of them, and that if you were right by them, it would also cut off the light source previded a bit, in whatever direction you're standing in.

Pokemon like; Umbreon, Pikachu would have a different way of using Flash, but as the show showed, Umbreon wouldn't be able to battle while using it, and while bright, and probably more effective than the previous pokemon, it tired the Umbreon out. I also would think Pikachu and other electric types like Pikachu would be affected the same way, being unable to battle and quickly able to be tired out.

Pokemon like; Girafarig, Drowzee, Abra, Espeon Psychic types might be the best to go with for Flash, as I see the more experienced the psychic, the better they can use the move Flash, and instead of making their bodies glow, they create a little ball of glowing psychic energy, that doesn't do any damage, but does give off a bright light. And the bubble probably might pop/burst into a bright flash if the psychic pokemon gets distracted or forced into a battle.

And back on the cave part, I think it'd be best if you studied about caves a little, learned what makes them tick, wether you want Dark cave to be 'dead' or 'alive' (dead = dry cave, alive = damp cave).

Negrek
28th December 2005, 8:56 PM
Well, I think that, while you'd obviously be able to see a little ways in from the entrance, depending upon how large it was, the cave would largely be pitch-black and easy to get lost in. It's also quite extensive--the difficult terrain would probably prevent an earlier trainer from getting very far in, but it does extend all the way over to near Blackthorn, so it's pretty large.

As for pokemon... I think that Charmander's tail flame wouldn't light up terribly much. It's a small pokemon, and its tail would probably be only somewhat larger than a candle flame, not as large as a torch. That would give you very limited visibility, maybe three-four feet at best. Charmeleon and charizard would have increased ranges because their tail flames are naturally larger.

As for using flash, I've always seen it as requiring you to have the pokemon out and walking/floating/flapping alonside you in order to use it. The intensity of the light would vary by pokemon, with pokemon naturally adapted to creating light, such as lanturn, able to cast a much larger radius of illumination and also possibly control its intensity and the direction in which it was guided. I'd guess over seven feet for most of them, depending upon intensity.

I guess it would really depend upon the pokemon that you wanted to use; it seems to me that it would be a very different experience depending upon that.

Silawen
29th December 2005, 12:22 PM
*nods* Excellent, thank you for the insights. :) I figured as much, but wanted some other opinions.

Now, I was thinking about moves other than Flash to light the cave. Moves that, possably, with artistic license, could give off light are the following:

Aurora Beam
Barrier
Confusion
Ember
Explosion
Fire Spin
Flame Wheel
Flamethrower
Light Screen
Moonlight
Morning Sun
Psybeam
Psywave
Sacred Fire
Selfdestruct
Solarbeam
Sonicboom
Spark
Thunder Wave
Thunderbolt
Thundershock
Zap Cannon
Sunny Day
Thunder
Psychic
Fire Blast
Thunderpunch
Fire Punch

Of course several of these moves can't be used, such as Explosion and Selfdestruct. Others probably wouldn't work in caves, such as Moonlight and Morning Sun. Others, while good to light a cave, are just too straining on the pokémon if it had to perform them constantly, such as Psychic, Solarbeam and Thunder. Then you have those moves that need a pokémon opposite them or don't give enough light, such as Confusion and Thunderpunch. Last, but not least, you have moves that are simply too dangerous to perform in a cave, such as Sacred Fire and Flame Wheel. So, which moves does this leave..? (strikes out)

Ember
Light Screen
Psywave
Spark
Sunny Day
Thunder Wave

Ember is perhaps the least usefull, as small glowing embers won't light up a whole lot.
Light Screen looks usefull, but can the pokémon generate light themselves, or does it need light from outside?
Psywave would probably light up a lot with energy, but would also require a good psychic type to keep doing it.
Spark, for instance generated by Pikachu's tail or Lanturn's...ehm, light, could perhaps work.
Sunny Day, would you need the sun?
Thunder Wave, dangerous for those around, but a good subtitute, if the pokémon can keep it up.

Your thoughts? Or other moves a Johto pokémon (or Kanto pokémon in Johto) can learn?

Yami Ryu
29th December 2005, 2:52 PM
I don't think Lanturn would have to use Spark or Thunderwave or such a move to light of a cave, or a small area, as the fin is based on an Angler fish's fin, so the lure is bioluminescent*sp* meaning it's a bunch of bacteria that create light o.o though in Lanturn's case it could also create electricity too .. hm, but anyways, Lanturn in theory wouldn't have to use spark to light itself up.

Sunny Day wouldn't be good/usefull in a cave, as it makes the sun brighter, not provides extra light. So I don't see how it could work even using artistic liscence. And Solar Beam would be struck out for a diferent reason; it takes light to perform, that's why in rainy conditions the power's halved.

I'm unsure about Lightscreen, as it's more of a barrier type attack than a light giving attack, as it creates a wall of energy, and I'm unsure if a pokemon outside of a psychic type, could move it, and I bet the psychic type would have a hard time moving it.

What about Forsight? With how it was made out in the anime, it looked like night vision, and if you want to stay away from flash: Zubat, Golbat or anyother pokemon with Supersonic as the attack is based on Echolocation, aka sonar. But those don't exactly light up a cave, but they're better than me not suggesting anything >>'

Silawen
29th December 2005, 3:04 PM
I always envisioned Light Screen as an energy barrier, made from light, the energy coming from the pokémon itself. I also envisioned it moving along with the pokémon that's out, since it lasts 5 rounds and it would be silly if another pokémon could just go around it and then attack. (In 'real-life pokémon' terms.)

A lot of electric types can generate it as well, so I envision it more as energy, be it through electricy or psychic powers, that creates a screen. However, it creates light - hence the light screen - because it is made of inner energy.

PDL
29th December 2005, 5:05 PM
you could have a Volbeat with Tail Glow... or have a Marrep that knows it as well (dispite not being able to learn it in the games)

or you could go the easy way out and have the trainer bring a flashlight :p

Silawen
30th December 2005, 3:18 PM
I don't take artistic license when it comes to attacks that a pokémon can't learn. A flashlight, gee never thought of that. -_- Just kidding, of course that crossed my mind.

Negrek
30th December 2005, 9:52 PM
Mmm, interesting. The way that I portray sunny day is that the pokemon in question actually creates a miniature illusion of the sun, which will illuminate and heat up the battlefield. However, the created sun is not very portable, so for exploring an extensive cave it would not be altogether practical.

Light screen, on the other hand, might work. I think that it would create a mobile barrier around the pokemon and be generated by means of their own energy. However, I don't know that the light generated would be all that bright. I would expect it to just give off a small glow, probably enough to light up a neat ring around the pokemon using it, maybe one or two feet out in every direction, but not that beneficial to someone standing outside of the screen.

Psywave I don't see as creating light, really; when I use it, I see it as being an attack that causes the air to ripple or distort as it passes through it, thus the "wave" effect, but is not in itself visible. I don't see psychic-type attacks as being visible in general.

I think that, off that list, spark or thunder wave seem the most practical. However, I don't think you'd get so much light from just a bunch of sparks leaping over the pokemon's body. Thunderwave might cause them to glow a bit, but I think that it wouldn't be terribly bright, certainly not as bright as flash, and not very illuminating.

As for other moves that can be used by Johto pokemon...the moves that Renegade mentioned would work if just the pokemon wanted to navigate, but as far as giving light for the trainers goes, will-o-wisp could work, though you would need a vulpix or something around to use it. It would depend on how you envisioned the attack working, though; one will-o-wisp alone would not give very much light, but if the pokemon was able to create and control multiple ones, so that there might be a little group of them following pokemon and trainer around at once it could work.

Alternatively, if you would accept any pokemon that could be found in Johto, what about a Magmar? According to 'dex data and the like, its entire body is constantly glowing because it's on fire, more or less. I don't know how powerful the light would be, but magmar's a fairly large pokemon, and its entire body is constantly alight, so I think it might not be too bad in that respect.

That's about it that I can think of at the moment...

Ash_Junior
31st December 2005, 8:18 AM
let's take a look-see here...

Ember
Light Screen
Psywave
Spark
Sunny Day
Thunder Wave

Light Screen:

yeah, maybe...if the Poke was alone. See Negrek's above post

Psywave:

same as Negrek here...to me, all Psychic moves simply ripple the fabric of space/time, but never light it up.

Thunder Wave:

nuh-uh. Not gonna work. Why? Electricity needs something to conduct from, and somethign to conduct to. unless you've got some water or another poke nearby, it's not gonna work in a cave, because rock/dirt are excellent insulators, and insulators=no electricity passing through. well, it COULD work, if the poke was Thunder Waving its trainer (but then the said trainer would have a hard time moving around :p )

Sunny Day:

Personally, I see this move as affecting the sun's radiation through the atmosphere. Somehow it affects the atmosphere so the radiation is more potent. that's my view, anyhow. so for me this owuld be a no-go.

Ember:

Okay, yeah, obviously a good move for a fire type. Probably not that powerful, but it would provide a ten-foot radius or so, maybe more, depending on how powerful the Poke is. the only problem would be breathing and walking and Embering, if the fire comes out of the Poke's mouth

Spark:

This would definitely work, since it's a spark. All the Electric type would have to do would be to shift some positive electrons to one part of its body, and negatives to another, and then you'd have a stream of electricity bridging the gap...however, unless the electric type consciously made the effort, the electrons would travel through its body.

however, to electric types doing Spark in tandem with each other, constantly shifting the balance of positive/negative elctrons in their body--they would be able to continue it indefinitely.

my two creds