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View Full Version : Dilemmas. I hate them. (Help Please...)



xXSaberXx
1st January 2006, 2:12 AM
Now, I suddenly got inspiration not to long ago, when I was playing my Emerald Version for the billionth time. I'd done pretty much everything on it, Ribbons, All Pokemon, BF symbols all gotten, etc etc.

So here I was staring at my Gold card and going; god, what do I do now? Where is there left to turn? WHAT BECOMES OF THIS GREAT TRAINER I HAVE CREATED!?

The answer hit me.

After becoming good, the trainer always somehow feels that he/she is incomptent and needs to better her/his skills after either getting beaten thoroughly or realizing they aren't all that.

I've decided to write a fiction about a once-Hoenn-Champion starting over.

Now the reason it's not like a journey fic is probably obvious. This person knows the ropes and what is going on. He/She no longer challenges gyms, but wanders about, battling only weak pokemon and finding out what it's like to be one of those normal trainers with Zigzagzoons and Poochyenas and Swellows.

This event that the Champion goes on is what prompts the Emerald Saga. (Which means the Champion leaves (after about two years since beating Steven out), assigning Wallace to his/her place, depositing all her/his items, HMs, Pokeballs, and finally, pokemon.

Now here's the problem:

I'm esentially worried people will be like, OMFG this is just like a trainer fic cause she starts over and she's UBER OMG YOU SUCK. When she's not. Will people get bored of it? I mean, I know I'm going to put a ton of plot twists, and it'll be kinda short compared to PR:COF....How am I going to keep this thing alive? How can I define it from 'just another OT?' Do I keep a lot of memories in? Do I bring old characters that she knew in? HOW?!

Also; Is the history of her old journey important? Should I intergrate it? Or should I try and make it seem brand-spanking new?

Please help. I think I'm going mad. ^.^

Kamex
1st January 2006, 2:59 AM
Sounds like an interesting idea, actually.


How am I going to keep this thing alive? How can I define it from 'just another OT?' Do I keep a lot of memories in? Do I bring old characters that she knew in? HOW?!
You kinda answered your own question.


Also; Is the history of her old journey important? Should I intergrate it? Or should I try and make it seem brand-spanking new?
I think the history of her old journey would be important. The main idea of the story seems to be a trainer who's already accomplished goes back and starts all over, so the idea of past victories and friends and all that should make the story stronger. That's not to say you should overshadow the new characters and experiences, though.

Kiyohime
1st January 2006, 3:14 AM
XDDD OMFG YOU READ MY MIND. Rinali will be sorta like that, a trainer with nothing left to do in Aeon. Only you'll focus on that more, and it's the EMERALD SAGA FOR FRIG'S SAKE. Groudon and Kyogre beating the **** out of each other....I'd read that if you wrote it, because you put an original spin on everything. I mean, look what you did with FR and LG. I got faith in ya, Sabur.

Now, something you could try is having flashbacks on her old journey as she progresses, thinknig back on important memories that correspond to what she's doing at the moment to flesh out her character. Are you using the May template or an OC?

Your fic is insanely popular (50+ PAGES. DON'T YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT THAT. XD) so I wouldn't worry too much, as everyone knows you'd do a good job if you put enough thought into it. ^^

Oh, and if it's Emerald....that means....LUCY. AND THE UBERLY FAIRY DOME STAR TUCKER. *faints* WRITTEN BY YOU. *faints again*

Saffire Persian
1st January 2006, 3:15 AM
I think it's a interesting idea - sure, some people would think OHNOEZZ U GOT UBER TRAINER OF DOOM! But personally, as long as it's well written and stuff, it shouldn't matter. It just so happens that most of the time, people who write trainers having UBER Pokémon don't write well, you do. 0_o. I'm quite sure you won't make her 'all powerful' and such. I'm not worried about that.

As for her history, I would have to say yes. As a quote says 'You can't have a future without your past' or something along those lines. IT's important, as our past makes us who we are to at least some extent.

Pinecone Tortoise
1st January 2006, 3:30 AM
I like the idea. I DO feel the whole 'restriction' thing might make it kinda like those secret superhero shows where the main character is constantly suppressing their 00BER TRUE POWER and DECIDING WHETHER OR NOT TO CREAM THE PUNY FOOL WHO JUST CREAMED THEM BUT ONLY BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T USING THEIR REAL STRENGTH... but as cheesy as that is, I admit I like those stories. *MAJOR sweatdrop* But yah, you're an experienced author and I reckon you can pull it off with enough development and excitement to maintain the interest. After all, if something isn't working out, you'll probably be told pretty quickly in the reviews. Hey, it's an experiment. If it goes pear shaped, either change it or dump it.

And the history? Isn't that part of the point? Not to redo her life, but CONTINUE it in a different way.

But what would happen to her old pokemon? Surely she'd be too attached to just LEAVE them to rot in the box. I mean, isn't that like putting their lives on hold? How could someone who'd gone so far with them DO that to them? Would she take 'em with her but not use them or leave them out in the open somewhere? It just seems cruel to shut such a faithful team away into storage. And wouldn't she miss the companionship? If you ask me, the transition from one team to another and the ties to the old team would occupy a great part of the plot. Meh.

Sounds like a great idea. Have fun with it! Oh, and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!

Piney.
;204;;324;

xXSaberXx
1st January 2006, 4:13 AM
Hm.. Kamex, you have a point.Thanks. You're right. It's too important to leave out. And it's going to be hard to balance it, but yeah. I'll keep overshadowing in mind. THANKS.

LAWL RINALI IS AWESOME. D: YOU BET she observes Groudon and Kyogre. D: So you won. :P But yeah. And it's an OC. D: ROFL. TUCKER AND LUCY AND ALL THOSE PEOPLE. Lawl. They will be in there, DEFINETLY. ^.^

*hides* FIFTY PAGES. *sexplode*

;.; Thank you, Saffire, dear. Your words encourage me. And yeah, I know what you mean. D: The Mew users. ROFL.

Nice quote, btw. *steals*

PINCONE OMFG HEY. :P


I like the idea. I DO feel the whole 'restriction' thing might make it kinda like those secret superhero shows where the main character is constantly suppressing their 00BER TRUE POWER and DECIDING WHETHER OR NOT TO CREAM THE PUNY FOOL WHO JUST CREAMED THEM BUT ONLY BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T USING THEIR REAL STRENGTH... but as cheesy as that is, I admit I like those stories. *MAJOR sweatdrop* But yah, you're an experienced author and I reckon you can pull it off with enough development and excitement to maintain the interest. After all, if something isn't working out, you'll probably be told pretty quickly in the reviews. Hey, it's an experiment. If it goes pear shaped, either change it or dump it.

I LIKE THOSE STORIES TOO OMG! :3 Haha. Experienced? >.< *hits self* See, that's what I thought, that if I make it interesting, people will read. D: Thanks for letting me know that that's right. Pear shaped. Haha. Like a derriere. O_o;;;

ANYHOO. I'll drop it if it does. And yes.....continuing is what I want to do. Not begin again. ^.^


But what would happen to her old pokemon? Surely she'd be too attached to just LEAVE them to rot in the box. I mean, isn't that like putting their lives on hold? How could someone who'd gone so far with them DO that to them? Would she take 'em with her but not use them or leave them out in the open somewhere? It just seems cruel to shut such a faithful team away into storage. And wouldn't she miss the companionship? If you ask me, the transition from one team to another and the ties to the old team would occupy a great part of the plot. Meh.

Hm. Well, she leaves them.....with....Respective Gym Leaders, who have volunteered to use them in battle/train with them while she's gone. O_o;; Like, her Blaziken stays with Flannery, and her Crobat with Winona and so on. That way, she can still see them and get updated with them and such. Of course she loves them a lot, like you said, but she feels that she has let them down by becoming a steadily worse person. So she kinda doesn't want them to see her or her to see them until she is a quote unquote 'better person.'

SO YEAH. Haha. It's weird, I know. o-o;;

Shadowcat
1st January 2006, 4:30 AM
SABER! *pops her bloody head in* I love the idea. Now, I suck at reviewing.

And lookie! Some good spoilers there! Now, she would have a Zigzagoon or Wurmple, and get her butt whooped? And I feel sorry for her Pokemon. Really! Nah! I was being sarcastic. Becoming worse? I think you mean becoming worse because of losing all her Pokemon, and not being connected to her new Pokemon.

Kris Destiny
1st January 2006, 6:48 PM
Becoming worse? I think you mean becoming worse because of losing all her Pokemon, and not being connected to her new Pokemon.

Actually, I thought she meant that the OC became worse because of the championship. Vainness and the like. The new experiance might... humble her out a bit? Tat's just me though.

I like this idea a lot, Saber. Just try. I'm almost positive it will go well.

Dilasc
1st January 2006, 7:23 PM
Amongst all the life, and the supposed potential, there is supposedly an eternity, and yet, to me, it is... empty. When I have fulfilled my dream... my sister's dream, I will join her at the answer. I will free myself of the endless, painful emptiness that drives me nowhere!

I wrote that little passage long ago (sorta, I basically just rewrote it in here,) and was going to have that be Phil's end and demise at the hands of a bullet to his own skull, at his own hands... then I remembered how Cliche that Suicide was, and figured that finding a reason to live is much more epic than finding a reason to give up. Basically, I am still struggling to find reason to give Phil a reason to go on after the league, or any character for that matter. I haven't thought about it, but this post is making me think carefully.

All I can say is, why are you concerned about doing a good job when you should be well aware that the word good is a mere understatement? I'd sacrifice my left (and also better) eye socket to have half as big a fanbase as you do! Do you really think you could possibly turn people off with your credentials. People are so mesmerized by your work, that you could write ANYTHING, even nothing at all, and still be loved! You have a power that you probably don't even realize you have. I have no idea why, or how you could possibly be worried.

Anyway, let's see what a lowbie like myself can offer my betters. I'll say the best course of action is to let the story flow. It's not a perfect world where everyone can be pleased. If someone decides to hate your work, then who needs them, you have so many readers, you can be certain that you'll have half of them read your story and not even be able to remember why they even like you or your work to begin with.

If you're already up to the part where you're writing what could be nearly the end, then truly, you have this planned out very well as is. Perhaps, you could always send this new champion to a new league. I know the Anime makes this a cliche, but if you pull it off well, you could wind up enthralling your audience with a new twist... made up Pokemon, Saber style. What better way to show off one's writting and creative prowess than by making new, and original Pokemon. I doubt that's what you're even looking for, but still, it is always a possibility, is it not?

Eh, I know my post is long and confusing, and that my constantly shifting thoughts on the matter seem to stem from the likes of jealousy and pity, but I sometimes don't know a better way to spit it out. You have an amazing gift!Charisma! Something I eke badly! So, before you worry about doing a bad job, you have to realize, someone like you possibly can't screw up. I know it's difficult for me to word this in a nice manner, but this is a compliment, in a twisted way.

Isn't it obvious that I suck at staying on topic when other thoughts plague my mind? If you can sift through all the rambling, you're a better person than I am, which is probably true either way, but still. Let me reiterate it though. If it were possible for you to lose popularity with a new story, then I could potentially be the best author here, and I know for a fact that I'm no good. As such, don't worry about popularity, and try to ignore my stressed out words, as this is not the place for them.

xXSaberXx
1st January 2006, 9:13 PM
D: Wrumple? Zizagzoon? Maybe. :3 Thanks Sapphire. And Kris is right. o-o;; It'll humble her out a lot. I'm hoping. Thanks!

I did that once too, Dilasc. And I realized, too, that suicide was kinda...erm....uneeded. It's a very hard thing to do, swerving your character this way and that. D: Good thing you didn't do it though....;.;


All I can say is, why are you concerned about doing a good job when you should be well aware that the word good is a mere understatement? I'd sacrifice my left (and also better) eye socket to have half as big a fanbase as you do! Do you really think you could possibly turn people off with your credentials. People are so mesmerized by your work, that you could write ANYTHING, even nothing at all, and still be loved! You have a power that you probably don't even realize you have. I have no idea why, or how you could possibly be worried.

And that's what I think I take for granted. This...erm...power is probably something I overlook everyday. I realize now, after reading your post, that I should be a lot more grateful for it, but I won't try to abuse it, hence why I'm willing to make something impacting with this new story. I don't want to seem like a cheapskate who makes things and then gets instant love. That's not what I want, as an author. I want to make something I AM proud of, and then, only then, can I take the comments to heart, yanno?

I realize there are incredible amounts of worked poured into some fanfictions, that never get acknowledged. It's a sad thing to see, because you know that person poured their soul into it. I would wish upon you three times as much fortune as I had, because such a thing should not go to waste.


Anyway, let's see what a lowbie like myself can offer my betters. I'll say the best course of action is to let the story flow. It's not a perfect world where everyone can be pleased. If someone decides to hate your work, then who needs them, you have so many readers, you can be certain that you'll have half of them read your story and not even be able to remember why they even like you or your work to begin with.

No one is better than someone that gives it their all. ^^

And the rest of that paragraph.....haha. Maybe that's true. I believe I'm jaded, in a sense. But see, this time I don't want something like that. I don't want people to read because I'm ME, but because it's a good fiction. I know that that's probably impossible, but still not improbable. If I can pour my heart and soul into this, and give it my all, then I think I can surpass those boundaries. It's worth a try, like you said.



If you're already up to the part where you're writing what could be nearly the end, then truly, you have this planned out very well as is. Perhaps, you could always send this new champion to a new league. I know the Anime makes this a cliche, but if you pull it off well, you could wind up enthralling your audience with a new twist... made up Pokemon, Saber style. What better way to show off one's writting and creative prowess than by making new, and original Pokemon. I doubt that's what you're even looking for, but still, it is always a possibility, is it not?

Actually, before I worked on PR: COF, I made a total of one hundred new pokemon, starters, legendaries, and the like. I tried to stick to Nintendo's pattern of sensical names and likely types and what not, and the result was great. However, I cannot but them into works just yet, for the region map isn't finished, nor are the Gym Leaders or the 'bad guys,' the VII. (Which reads as seven, not Vee one one. XP) What you say is a great possiblity, but will require more from me than I can imagine. I believe I must first become a better writer, and better thinker, a better person.

And so, that's pretty much the reason I did THIS fic about a girl starting over.

In fact, your words have inspired me. Perhaps an idea is boiling in the back of my mind, and may intergrate itself.



Eh, I know my post is long and confusing, and that my constantly shifting thoughts on the matter seem to stem from the likes of jealousy and pity, but I sometimes don't know a better way to spit it out. You have an amazing gift! Charisma! Something I eke badly! So, before you worry about doing a bad job, you have to realize, someone like you possibly can't screw up. I know it's difficult for me to word this in a nice manner, but this is a compliment, in a twisted way.

I like twisted compliments. You can't get sick of them. ^^ Um...Charisma is just a tool, like writing. I'm sure you have some. Everyone does, they just don't apply it. Jealousy is probably the most horrible of emotions, because it leads one to drastic measures. Though I know you won't do anything, (XP), just keep in mind that I didn't always start out the way I was. If you look back to my earlier chapters, they are like dishrags on the floor compared to the later ones. I believe that if you keep doing something you like to do, you'll eventually improve. It's just a matter of sticking at it, no matter what.


Stressed out words....:P I know it's stupid to tell you not to be stressed, but I will anyway, cause I hate seeing people stressed. Your words make me sad and happy all at the same time. Weird. Thanks for the advice, the twisted comments, and above all, the revelation. ^^

Elemental Charizam
1st January 2006, 9:42 PM
OMG! All Saber has to do is wag her nose to get reviewers! Nah, I kid, I just always wanted to use the phrase 'wag his/her nose' ever since Dilasc used it. I <3 that phrase. But I digress.

Popularity is a double edged sword - even if you don't want peoplle to look at it just because its you writing it, they probably will. I wouldn't worry about getting reviews. What you should worry about, if anything at all, is getting good ones :P

I shouldn't think you'll have any trouble though. It is a complex basic idea, with great potential. How tempting it would be for the trainer to take back her pokemon after a huge defeat from some taunting noob. Unless the champion is an ice cold *******, they'd feel like they were betraying their own pokemon, or at least sadness that they're no longer with them. Looks to be more an emotional journey than a physical one, but I suppose I'm forgetting the twists...

I can guess at a few you might try. Seems like a fic to watch. Good luck with the fic, Saber.

P.S Uhh, hate to sound argumentative, but I couldn't resist pointing this out. Wasn't it just a teensy bit patronising to assume the reason you're more popular than Dilasc is that you're much better, comparing himself to to your ' dishrag... chapters'? Eh, I'm probably just interprating what you said incorrectrly. I certainly hope so.

xXSaberXx
1st January 2006, 9:45 PM
I shouldn't think you'll have any trouble though. It is a complex basic idea, with great potential. How tempting it would be for the trainer to take back her pokemon after a huge defeat from some taunting noob. Unless the champion is an ice cold *******, they'd feel like they were betraying their own pokemon, or at least sadness that they're no longer with them. Looks to be more an emotional journey than a physical one, but I suppose I'm forgetting the twists...

And you, good sir, are either telepathic, or my lost evil twin. :P


P.S Uhh, hate to sound argumentative, but I couldn't resist pointing this out. Wasn't it just a teensy bit patronising to assume the reason you're more popular than Dilasc is that you're much better, comparing himself to to your ' dishrag... chapters'? Eh, I'm probably just interprating what you said incorrectrly. I certainly hope so.

o-o um. no. I was saying that my eariler chapters ARE dishrags compared to my later ones, meaning I was really sucky when I started....I don't mean to say he is bad at all! I was trying to point out the fact that I improved over time, it's a miracle anyone stuck with me when my chapters were horrible...I didn't mean that he is horrible NOW, just that I was, so he is entirely better than me. Most of the forum is. ._.;;;

I wasn't trying to say he was bad! Oh heavens no! D: ;.; *hides*

Melodrama
1st January 2006, 9:56 PM
I'm esentially worried people will be like, OMFG this is just like a trainer fic cause she starts over and she's UBER OMG YOU SUCK. When she's not. Will people get bored of it? I mean, I know I'm going to put a ton of plot twists, and it'll be kinda short compared to PR:COF....How am I going to keep this thing alive? How can I define it from 'just another OT?' Do I keep a lot of memories in? Do I bring old characters that she knew in? HOW?!

Also; Is the history of her old journey important? Should I intergrate it? Or should I try and make it seem brand-spanking new?

Please help. I think I'm going mad. ^.^

Actually, I think the idea could work. I mean, my boyfriend is writing a rather similar trainer fic, where the son of the ex-champion, whose the next in line, is forced into starting over with a new Pokemon.

Of course, I really dunno how he's going with it and whether or not he's threading in memories, but I think it could work. :3

Elemental Charizam
1st January 2006, 10:06 PM
o-o um. no. I was saying that my eariler chapters ARE dishrags compared to my later ones, meaning I was really sucky when I started....I don't mean to say he is bad at all! I was trying to point out the fact that I improved over time, it's a miracle anyone stuck with me when my chapters were horrible...I didn't mean that he is horrible NOW, just that I was, so in that way, he is entirely better than me. Most of the forum is. ._.;;;

I wasn't trying to say he was bad! Oh heavens no! D: ;.; *hides*
Sorry, I was a bit quick to jump to a conclusion there... *shuffles feet guiltily*


And you, good sir, are either telepathic, or my lost evil twin. :P
I like the second better, I've always wanted to be an evil twin :D

Now I've read it again I want to read it even more XD Likew when you're really inspired, but to read and not write.

Just read the part about giving her pokemon to Gym leaders. Wow. That'd be so odd, to fight your own pokemon. Still, I doubt it'd be pleasant for the Gym leader and pokemon either. Wouldn't her pokemon be a bit strong for Gym leaders though? o.o Eh, I'm sure you have an explanation; the story seems better rounded at this stage than many completed fics :3

xXSaberXx
1st January 2006, 10:23 PM
O.o Is he really.... That's a cool concept! D: Kinda similar, but he's the SON. o-o Whee. Haha, thanks for the encouragement, Sango!

LOL. ;.; No need to shuffle!

D: She won't be fighting Gym Leaders this time around, considering she has her badges already. :P The pokemon WOULD be strong, yes, so it would add greatly to the Gym's teams for a few months or so. (Or for however long she's going to be gone.) And like you said, she's going to be kinda cold and distant, though only nice to her pokemon. D: Actually, she's kinda the tough love type, so scratch the 'nice' part. :P

Mimori Kiryu
1st January 2006, 10:40 PM
I'm esentially worried people will be like, OMFG this is just like a trainer fic cause she starts over and she's UBER OMG YOU SUCK. When she's not. Will people get bored of it? I mean, I know I'm going to put a ton of plot twists, and it'll be kinda short compared to PR:COF....How am I going to keep this thing alive? How can I define it from 'just another OT?' Do I keep a lot of memories in? Do I bring old characters that she knew in? HOW?!

Also; Is the history of her old journey important? Should I intergrate it? Or should I try and make it seem brand-spanking new?

Please help. I think I'm going mad. ^.^

D: Meh twinneh has a new story idea? *goes frantic to help out*

....I'm going to try to help, but I'm not that good of a writer, so here goes....something.

I've read your story since the very beginning and seen you develop as an incredible writer, Saber. If there's any person who can pull off this feat, it would be you. Of course, untrue reader would just scan it and say you know 'OMFGZOOrs yous UBBER YOU SUX...!!!onenine'. People like that are morons and you shouldn't worry about that.

Memories will probably be your best thing to focus on. Bringing back the old memories of her journey will be an emotional experience for both the character herself and the readers. It bring sensible things to the story. Emotions will definately make this story flow. Especially with you writing it, Saber.

Saber, you're a great writer and you could make this come alive. Intergrate anything you see fit that would help you to complete the view of your character and her life. As your character, she's only going to 'live' for one story, usually, so completely developing her, giving her a defined purpose for going on after her journey is a KEY. Purpose. Not so much as amount of information you have into the story.


Hope I helped, Saber. And seriously. If there's anyone to pull this off, it would definately be you. I mean, come on, I don't look at FireRed and LeafGreen anymore. Most of my pokemon are nicknamed after your characters.


:D


LAWL.

I <3 the story idea and you, meh twinneh! <3


Good luck, Saber. ^_^

~Mimori

whit19
2nd January 2006, 1:33 AM
Damn... 0_0 I knew Saber was popular, but not like this...

Well I can't really say nothin new... This'll be an easy story for you to make and it'll most likely be a huge hit. (Didn't see that comin. :p )

You got ya basic ideas (with the whole memories comin into play) so it'll be fine. No one will say it's a stupid trainer fic that sucks unless they ain't read it. :)

Good luck. (Not that ya need it.)

Negrek
2nd January 2006, 4:11 AM
It's an interesting idea, and not one commonly done. Perhaps for a reason, but there you are.

One of the things that stuck out to me was the whole "Finding out what it would be like to be just one of those trainers with poochyena/taillow/etc". This doesn't make sense to me, because unless we assume your champion began as a champion, they must have gone through this stage themselves. IMO, most trainers wouldn't want to relive that part of their journey, but it seems to me that the trainer would already be well aware of what that particular stage of advancement would entail and no longer be interested in it.

The second question is if this is even feasible for a champion. Naturally, they'll be pretty famous/well known throughout the Hoenn region, which is where your post implies that they would be going through training again. However, if you're so well known, you're going to have people hounding you. People would rush to challenge a champion on "even terms," where the trainer has low-levelled pokémon. Trainers would probably jockey to be a travelling companion with the person. They would gain an entourage. This would, naturally, defeat the purpose of starting over, as you would be constantly reminded of, and burdened by, your past. Even starting over in another region would be problematic. People would catch wind that you were over there pretty fast, if you didn't have to make some sort of announcement before leaving, and then the same thing would happen.

Third, character development. OT's are powerful in that they lead to a very natural progression of maturation and increased awareness as a result of their progression. However, your character is assumed to have already gone through this process--in terms of OT's, their character has already "plateud" (why can't I spell tonight?) and may suffer from static syndrome. Not that you can't inject life into a character like that, but keeping them dynamic would be very challenging.

UnholyWeather
2nd January 2006, 8:21 PM
I kinda agree with what Negrek said. It would be tough for a champion to start over without everybody knowing. Unless she went to some remote region(made up or maybe Orre), she would be hounded.

Of course you could make it that something drastic happened to her that makes her want to start again. An example would be her being defeated. It may sound cliche, but i think it's plausible if you develop it correctly.

Anyway, that's one way you can make it. Either way I think it's a good idea. Give it a good try. "Life ain't worth living if you can't take a few risks."
(Quote from a James Bond movie. Can you guess which one?)