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SUBRICK
2nd January 2006, 8:34 AM
I like the serebii forums because they really stress on the rules, which is always a plus. Intrigued by just the first page, I lurked through most gaming forums.

On one occasion, someone posted a FR/LG topic on the R/S/E thread. The amount of sarcasm and hurtful comments wasn't tolerable. I'm always on the side of redirecting these members to the proper place to post, but was those comments necessary? And this happens ALL THE TIME. Can't you all lay back and realizze that these are potentially good and active members?

I think the serebii mods need an ego check because although they have the authority and judgement to lock and delete threads, that doesn't allow them to make snap judgements on users who made a simple mistake. (I don't intend for this to change any rules of any kind. And this is not directed to all the mods)

sarcasm
2nd January 2006, 8:49 AM
Yes, sarcasm makes the forums fun.

-:Buro-kun Tsubasa:-
2nd January 2006, 8:54 AM
I agree with you there, Subrick, people are mean to the newbies, there members, everyone was a newbie once, Serebii was aswell! So why do we do it? Yes, Sarcasm is fun, but not supposed to be hurtfull.

Slypher
2nd January 2006, 9:28 AM
"Strict policies alienate younger and new members"

And I love that.

Alfonso
2nd January 2006, 9:45 AM
Uh, no. It's nothing to do with the policies. In fact, quite a lot of the rules Joe put in place this last year have been for the benefit of newer members. Maybe you should have done some research into the issue before saying that the policies are 'mean' and that Joe needs an ego check.

A thought, but if people can't handle sarcasm, maybe they shouldn't be on the internet. Seriously, SPPf isn't a daycare centre, and neither is the internet.

Grow up. Not everybody is, or wants to be nicey nice.

Shigaiko
2nd January 2006, 9:50 AM
Welcome to the internet.

But seriously, you can't blame the mods. The forums are swarming with idiocy lately, and there's only so much you can take. o_o

Fox
2nd January 2006, 10:01 AM
Sometimes, however, sarcasm can be Stupid, Pointless, Annoying, and/or Mean. A majority of the time, its funny, but it may not be funny to everyone. There's a fine line between sarcasm and flaming, and the way things usually are "judged" upon is not the intent of the action, but the result. Granted, a lot of people are just 'cry babies' and just go "WHY ARE YOU SO MEAN TO ME LEAVE ME ALONE" or something, which should be dealt with without furthuring any sort of conflict by using any more sarcasm.

I must say that I'm split on a lot of opinionated subjects. People say sarcasm is too high here. Other people say that its all over the internet. IMO, both sides are correct, however, from my point of view. The way I'd decide on what's best is to see which way would result in less conflicts and more satisfied users.

On this subject, I see it as less sacasm = less misunderstandings/conflicts = a greater abundance of satisfied users. Alternately or Alternatively, whichever is the proper term (I can't be arsed to think atm), more sarcasm = more conflicts = more flame wars = unhappy users.

Feel free to disprove :D


I think the serebii mods need an ego check because although they have the authority and judgement to lock and delete threads, that doesn't allow them to make snap judgements on users who made a simple mistake. (I don't intend for this to change any rules of any kind. And this is not directed to all the mods)
Not all mods are like that... I'd say a majority are fine >>

Serebii
2nd January 2006, 12:21 PM
I actually agree with you on the sarcasm stuff...people can make mistakes, I've done it before and people shouldn't be insulted or berated for it

I'll go have a yell :p

PLANES CURE TOWERS
2nd January 2006, 12:49 PM
I hope I don't smell a new rule brewing ;[

The fact remains that the "newbies" should have read the rules. They should have read the rules, they should adhere to the rules, and they should be expected to be treated like any other member who has broken the rules.

There was a new rule set forth a little while ago, that basically said, you can't use the "I'm new" excuse as an excuse for not following the rules. When you join the forum, you read the rules. Regardless of how many forums you have been to, or how much you think of yourself as king of the internet, there are bound to be some new rules depending on the section. Therefore if you want to keep things like flame wars etcetera at a minimum, then read the god damned rules. This means you post in the right section, therefore not brining your thread to the attention of people that are going to go all sarcastic on you, thereby getting the replies you want, and thereby having a good time here.

The problem isn't that these people are flaming you for breaking a rule, the problem is that people don't read the rules and stickies, make the mods job harder, spark up a load of mini-mod attention, and generally disrupt the flow. So yeah, sorry, but it isn't the people who are giving you/person x the problem that we need to be looking at. The problem is these new members that don't read the rules and expect to be treated less harshly because '"they're new."

-Josh

Serebii
2nd January 2006, 1:03 PM
The fact is Josh, we want them to be treated like everyone else and thats why the sarcasm and general insults are wrong

And it's not a new rule. Flaming and Trolling have always been against the rules...this will just be yet another reaffirmation

Eszett
2nd January 2006, 1:15 PM
If they didn't even read the rules as they were behooved to upon signing up, why should we give them excessive lenience? Plenty of people fail to use the Search button/bump old topics/double post/etc. when these actions are clearly labelled as being against the rules. Stickies exist in every forum to provide everybody, especially the newer members, with the resources on what proper etiquette is around these parts. All the facilities exist for new members to be treated respectfully, yet some opt to ignore these resources.

Reading the rules is an obligation with which we are all burdened. Just as the older members have chalked up on the stipulations in effect on these forums, so must our new recruits.

Jetx
2nd January 2006, 1:27 PM
I can't blame the mods, some mods are very encouraging to newbies and help teach them the rules, the ones newbies don't understand (if there are any) are made quite simple by the mods. I do see quite alot of newbies, however, who clearly don't read any rules. I think that the most annoying thing for a newbie is when they've read the rules, along comes a member, not a mod, who thinks they're so much better than the newbie. I've seen that happening too, it happened to me.

But I'm also in favor of the "newbies have no excuses" thing. I think that most of the very annoying members got here via a seach engine and have never seen a forum in thier life. That's what happened to me, but I did read the rules, unlike quite a few newbies. And himiko helped me when I was new. So, not many mods are to be blamed. But all newbies learn eventualy... Even those who don't read the rules. (Well most anyway. ;))

PLANES CURE TOWERS
2nd January 2006, 1:34 PM
The fact is Josh, we want them to be treated like everyone else and thats why the sarcasm and general insults are wrong
The point I was getting at, is that, if you break a rule, you usually get the receiving end of stick. Not that it is right, but, that is, how it works. ;[


And it's not a new rule. Flaming and Trolling have always been against the rules...this will just be yet another reaffirmation
I was looking for a "No more Sarcasm" rule xP

Other post still stands in regard to my full opinion.

-Josh

Fox
2nd January 2006, 9:47 PM
I have no problems with sarcasm used for general humor, but when used against users, then its going to be a problem. Sure, users may have not read the rules which triggers mini-modders, and sarcastic insults, however, those who are the mini-modders and sarcastic people themselves just show that they don't read the rules or disregard the rules as a whole.

Before its stated that those two items aren't written in rules, most of the mini-modders should know by now that it is not appreciated or taken well here, and those sarcastic people, well, flaming is against the rules already, so yeah.

Eszett
2nd January 2006, 11:15 PM
Eh? Sarcasm doesn't equate to flaming; I'm not exactly where you get that notion. You aren't necessarily being derogatory to another member when you employ a sarcastic quip. If somebody with an 800x800 BMP in their sig posts in the sig thread asking if it's okay, and I reply "It's fine.[/sarcasm] You need to severely reduce the image size down to at least 200x200.", I fail to see how that use and similar instances would equate to flaming. All I'm doing is reinforcing the egregious violation of the sig rules. If I started venting about how he was such an idiot for not reading the sig rules, that would certainly be flaming, but employing a certain literary construct in your remarks doesn't mean that you're giving derision to other members.

Fox
2nd January 2006, 11:27 PM
I didn't say sarcasm = flaming. However, sarcasm in general can lead to misunderstandings, unless made obvious that it is sarcasm, such as in your example. I was mentioning more of the sarcastic remarks that target a user in a derogatory manner.

Serebii
2nd January 2006, 11:46 PM
I said sarcasm = flaming because the sarcasm used by people here is just riddled with insults

Alfonso
2nd January 2006, 11:47 PM
I personally find it rather insulting when people put [/sarcasm] at the end of a sarcastic remark. Sure, it may stop someone from misunderstanding, but it's basically ruining the post point of making a sarcastic comment.

You don't use sarcasm when being nice to someone, so why sugercoat it. Might as well just not post since you're taking away the whole point of being sarcastic by making it incredibly obvious.

Thriller
3rd January 2006, 12:19 AM
I only do it because I really don't want to be taken seriously when I'm being sarcastic. It makes me feel bad when that happens.

Plus there are a lot of people who do take things seriously *Looks at the old "Imposter" Thread*

Sammi
3rd January 2006, 1:19 AM
I think the members here need to chill out and be nicer when someone breaks a rule. Every time there's a rulebreaker, the member snaps. They sound so inconsiderate. >>; I understand that it can be stressful sometimes, but you might hurt some feelings on the way by being mean, and that'd be bad.
But that's just me.

Sachiko
3rd January 2006, 1:30 AM
About newbies, some of them may misunderstand the rules because they haven't been on the site for long and are not used to it. Then they may recieve sarcasm and flames and stuff.
...
...
...
... Hey wait... I'm a newbie...
...
Anyway, what I have to say about flaming is that... don't do it!!!! Because then people won't like you!!! Right?? Uh, yeah, that's right.

Wolf Goddess
3rd January 2006, 2:27 AM
Perhaps if the newbies would search for answers, use legible grammar and spelling, and be generally intelligent, we wouldn't be in a bad mood all of the time. It's not our fault people can't take sarcasm on the interweb.

SUBRICK
3rd January 2006, 2:46 AM
Uh, no. It's nothing to do with the policies. In fact, quite a lot of the rules Joe put in place this last year have been for the benefit of newer members. Maybe you should have done some research into the issue before saying that the policies are 'mean' and that Joe needs an ego check.

A thought, but if people can't handle sarcasm, maybe they shouldn't be on the internet. Seriously, SPPf isn't a daycare centre, and neither is the internet.

Grow up. Not everybody is, or wants to be nicey nice.
You should have read my post more throughly because I wasn't blaming anyone in particular. I'm all for obligatory reading, but if someone doesn't read it, I don't expect he/she to be bashed by harsh comments. You yourself are feeding to the ever growing bane of the internet. It is never right to insult someone whether your in the internet or a daycare centre.

Wolf Goddess
3rd January 2006, 2:56 AM
Mind giving a link to this thread so we can see how bad these "insults" were?

intergalactic platypus
3rd January 2006, 3:00 AM
There will always be people on the forum with a stick up their arse. As long as they don't grow too numerous saracsm won't be something to be worried about though

SUBRICK
3rd January 2006, 11:43 PM
Perhaps if the newbies would search for answers, use legible grammar and spelling, and be generally intelligent, we wouldn't be in a bad mood all of the time. It's not our fault people can't take sarcasm on the interweb.
It's not their fault your in a bad mood. And there is no specific link or thread. You're just going to have to take my word for it, bub.

PLANES CURE TOWERS
3rd January 2006, 11:49 PM
It's not their fault your in a bad mood. And there is no specific link or thread. You're just going to have to take my word for it, bub.
Here's your fuggin' link, 'bub' (http://www.serebiiforums.com/rules.html)

-Josh

SUBRICK
4th January 2006, 12:05 AM
Here's your fuggin' link, 'bub' (http://www.serebiiforums.com/rules.html)

-Josh
Can you point to the location in my post where it says I want newbs to disregard the rules?

...Thought so. This topic doesn't regard the rules. Maybe the title was a little off topic. We are discussing attitude towards new members kthx.

PLANES CURE TOWERS
4th January 2006, 12:05 AM
...Thought so. This topic doesn't regard the rules. Maybe the title was a little off topic. We are discussing attitude towards new members kthx.
And maybe if these new members would follow the rules, then the attitude wouldn't happen, kthx.

At the end of the day, Latios' post pretty much sums up everything. ;/

-Josh

SUBRICK
4th January 2006, 12:15 AM
And maybe if these new members would follow the rules, then the attitude wouldn't happen, kthx.

At the end of the day, Latios' post pretty much sums up everything. ;/

-Josh New members aren't even the source. I just think people have that attitude to boost their smartass title. But they are the only suitable target to show it on. Kind of stereotypical if you agree it is right to unleash your sarcasm on the unsuspecting new members. Like an abusive parents. Those poor kids :'(

They too, can learn the rules. But if they don't, it doesn't make the ones that do follow the rules the right to be superior to them. Just direct them to the rules. Or, ban them if it persists.

Alfonso
4th January 2006, 12:24 AM
New members aren't even the source. I just think people have that attitude to boost their smartass title. But they are the only suitable target to show it on. Kind of stereotypical if you agree it is right to unleash your sarcasm on the unsuspecting new members. Like an abusive parents. Those poor kids :'(

They too, can learn the rules. But if they don't, it doesn't make the ones that do follow the rules the right to be superior to them. Just direct them to the rules. Or, ban them if it persists.

Well, if this isn't about newbies, and this isn't about rules, then what is it about? Arrogant and smartass members being mean and sarcastic to new members?

Feel free to link to one of these supposed smartass member's posts.

Ethereal
4th January 2006, 12:25 AM
Lemme ask you this, SUBRICK. How are you any better than the people you're b*tching about by posting what you are? It could easily be concluded that you're one of the problem people. It seems that when people don't agree with you, you get increasingly defensive.

As Josh said, Latios summed it ALL up. :/

Skiks
4th January 2006, 1:02 AM
They too, can learn the rules. But if they don't, it doesn't make the ones that do follow the rules the right to be superior to them. Just direct them to the rules. Or, ban them if it persists.
That my dear friend is a n00b. If they don't learn the rules after a while it's no wonder people lash out at them. Seriously we are not here to be nice to everyone. Either be good rule abidder and be respected or don't be treated like trash.

SUBRICK
4th January 2006, 1:26 AM
Lemme ask you this, SUBRICK. How are you any better than the people you're b*tching about by posting what you are? It could easily be concluded that you're one of the problem people. It seems that when people don't agree with you, you get increasingly defensive.

As Josh said, Latios summed it ALL up. :/
You are free to think that I am wrong. But I stronglly think that noone has supplied a valid reason to make fun of others for not following the rules. If that makes me the same as the mean members here, then you're mistaken.

Maybe this should be closed before I'm flamed to death for thinking outside the circle. -_-

PLANES CURE TOWERS
4th January 2006, 1:30 AM
You are free to think that I am wrong. But I stronglly think that noone has supplied a valid reason to make fun of others for not following the rules. If that makes me the same as the mean members here, then you're mistaken.

Maybe this should be closed before I'm flamed to death. -_-
There is no valid reason to be supplied. However there is no valid reason for people not to get frustrated with the constant influx of idiocy. Stalemate situation really, neither party is right, both are in the wrong.

-Josh

Magma Leader Maxie
4th January 2006, 1:43 AM
The rules are here to make it nicer for everyone. When I read the rules, I didn't see some inflated-head webmaster inventing rules to cut our fun or sources of information. I saw the guidelines someone had put up in an effort to stop people coming and turning the database into one large wreck which no one wants to read or visit - failure, pure and certain.

The problem is in both parties. The members who have been here for longer seem to be carrying "virtual sticks" which theys seem to be itching to bring down hard on newbies' fingers.

The newbies, on the other hand, seem to generally (perhaps sometimes unknowingly)... er... test the other members' tolerance. Some questions are enough to get anyone shouting. "W3r is rute 1 i cannt find it 0n teh map!!11!1!" and when the older member says:"OMG You're unbelieveably stupid. Check any site or look into your Gameboy screen better. God, the idiots these days" the newbie says: "No niid to be so ruud yuo n00b", a flame war starts instantly.

This whole newbie-member relationship has a thin line drawn between answered questions and flame wars. The whole thing is in some kind of infinite loop, and there is no light in the distance. There seems to be nothing that can be done to stop this. There seem to be members who I'd like to call "Negative atmosphere generators" who seem to spread the nasty attitude to everyone, especially if they are first to post. It's like some sort of virus, spreading quickly and infecting many posters. Some members seem to be immune, but I have to note that even moderators are prone to catching it.

I'll expand my post by saying that furthermore, a "Negative atmosphere generator" seems to be Eternal. I believe that since I have never argued with him, this remark is as unbiased as it can possibly be. Many posts by her are downright hilarious, but most probably serve as the spark that lights the flaming. This doesn't mean that Eternal comes and starts a flame, just that it is possible that members, acting like all humans do, forward the attitude present in his sentences into other threads. I don't agree with his methods, and if you don't think I'm entitled to do so, go boil your head, because I have decided on voicing my thoughts. If you think my thoughts are total b***s**t, add me to your ignore list.

Apologies for using you as an example, Eternal, it's nothing personal.

Wolf Goddess
4th January 2006, 2:15 AM
It's not their fault your in a bad mood. And there is no specific link or thread. You're just going to have to take my word for it, bub.

Really? I had no idea that when they post a question that has been asked multiple times the same day or bump thread five months old, and I have to spend half an hour deleting things and watnot, that it isn't their fault. It's not like they can control what they post or anything.

And, as for taking your word for it, that just goes to prove that you're talking about something that's nonexistent. Bashing newbies seems fairly few and far between, as long as they're acting intelligent. When I see posts in a bad topic, they're usually along the line of:


[Link to another thread here]

The Search button is sexy.

Not:


OMG you're a mother****ing moron!!!! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Ethereal
4th January 2006, 2:17 AM
Durr...I'm not a girl. ¬¬

And in my opinion, sarcasm doesn't equal flaming, or the beginnings of flaming. Some may agree, some may disagree. Meh.

I'd hardly call not being a bright, cheery optimist a "negative atmosphere generator" (o_O). :/

Magma Leader Maxie
4th January 2006, 2:30 AM
^ Sorry, your avatar did something called scotoma. The preconcieved notions of you based on your avatar and signature were so powerful that my brain blocked out some cotradictory startement in my memory. A blooper, sorry.

Hmm.. well, a bright cheery optimist wasn't the impression I have been getting. Perhaps I just haven't been reading the right way.

TRJessie579
4th January 2006, 3:55 AM
After reading this entire thread I'm also curious as to where you've seen mods bashing people for "simple mistakes." I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'd just like to see an example.

For my part, I try to cut newbies some slack, but if they break more than one rule in their first post here I'm going to tell them to read the rules before they post more, and I'm not going to be all puppies and candy canes about it.

I also give just as many warnings to the mini-mods going "THIS BELONGS IN RMT OMFG Y DIDNT U POST IT THERE MODS WHERE R U MOVE IT!!!!111" and I'm trying to encourage people to PM me if there's a problem thread instead of posting in it, as are others. >>;;

Considering I'm not exactly sure what SUBRICK's point is either, that's pretty much all I've got to say.

SUBRICK
4th January 2006, 4:47 AM
My point? I just find some posts (not just mods, and not ALL mods, like I mentioned already) tend to get carried away when people post a repeat topic, or post in the wrong forum. etc. That's my point. I dunno what threw you all off. : (

If I could supply you all with a topic, I would. But I don't bother looking because no matter what thread I find, there will be people who say, "HOMFG YOU FIND THAT INSULTING LOOLZ BABY WELCUM TO THE INTERNET."

And my last comment on egotistical mods WASN'T DIRECTED TOWARDS ANY MOD IN PARTICULAR.

Skiks
4th January 2006, 4:50 AM
My point? I just find some posts (not just mods, and not ALL mods, like I mentioned already) tend to get carried away when people post a repeat topic, or post in the wrong forum. etc. That's my point. I dunno what threw you all off. : (

If I could supply you all with a topic, I would. But I don't bother looking because no matter what thread I find, there will be people who say, "HOMFG YOU FIND THAT INSULTING LOOLZ BABY WELCUM TO THE INTERNET."

And my last comment on egotistical mods WASN'T DIRECTED TOWARDS ANY MOD IN PARTICULAR.
Heres the thing though: unless you link a topic where it happens, your argument is rather pointless.

PLANES CURE TOWERS
4th January 2006, 4:52 AM
If I could supply you all with a topic, I would. But I don't bother looking because no matter what thread I find, there will be people who say, "HOMFG YOU FIND THAT INSULTING LOOLZ BABY WELCUM TO THE INTERNET."
And unless you supply a topic, your arguement is invalid.

Quite the conundrum really.

-Josh

SUBRICK
4th January 2006, 4:58 AM
And unless you supply a topic, your arguement is invalid.

Quite the conundrum really.

-Josh
Why do you need a topic? I don't have it. I didn't get the link. And if my argument is invalid, what have you been arguing about for 3 pages?

PLANES CURE TOWERS
4th January 2006, 5:02 AM
Why do you need a topic? I don't have it. I didn't get the link. And if my argument is invalid, what have you been arguing about for 3 pages?
I've been arguing that sometimes the sarcasm/severity is nessecary. I havn't been arguing about the severity of the mods, unlike you, who seems to argue about everything thrown at him and get into a mess. ;[

Whatever, I'm done. You won't supply evidence for the claims you're making, and my opinion I posted first of all still stands. Have a nice day.

-Josh

TRJessie579
4th January 2006, 5:13 AM
Well, now I'VE got an example.

Someone just posted in the signature check thread to see if their sig was okay.

They have a 640 x 426 pic in it.

I asked if they were serious, and then I told them that they needed to actually READ the signature rules instead of just making a sig and then asking if it was okay.

Was it a newbie breaking the rules? Yes.

Should they have read the rules first like everyone else is supposed to do? Yes.

Sometimes people need a reality check.

Chris
4th January 2006, 5:57 AM
You don't even need to read the rules to know that's way too damn big of a pic to use. o_o; What some people here need is some god damned common sense and brains. --;

Fox
4th January 2006, 6:13 AM
However, in the defense of newbies, sometimes they MIGHT see a user/mod with a "large" image, that is actually comprised of several smaller images and think that it is one image. But the occurance of that happening is usually next to nothing.

Yamato-san
4th January 2006, 12:13 PM
My point? I just find some posts (not just mods, and not ALL mods, like I mentioned already) tend to get carried away when people post a repeat topic, or post in the wrong forum. etc. That's my point. I dunno what threw you all off. : (

If I could supply you all with a topic, I would. But I don't bother looking because no matter what thread I find, there will be people who say, "HOMFG YOU FIND THAT INSULTING LOOLZ BABY WELCUM TO THE INTERNET."

And my last comment on egotistical mods WASN'T DIRECTED TOWARDS ANY MOD IN PARTICULAR.

Well, I think the fact that you're afraid of posting a link because of the possibility that you may get such a reaction is already worthy enough of getting a "welcome to the internet" reply in itself. With that said, I suggest you stop screwing around and just back up what you said already. Simple as that, but instead, you decide to pick an arguement with Josh and others.

SlimShady
5th January 2006, 4:01 AM
I like the serebii forums because they really stress on the rules, which is always a plus. Intrigued by just the first page, I lurked through most gaming forums.

On one occasion, someone posted a FR/LG topic on the R/S/E thread. The amount of sarcasm and hurtful comments wasn't tolerable. I'm always on the side of redirecting these members to the proper place to post, but was those comments necessary? And this happens ALL THE TIME. Can't you all lay back and realizze that these are potentially good and active members?

I think the serebii mods need an ego check because although they have the authority and judgement to lock and delete threads, that doesn't allow them to make snap judgements on users who made a simple mistake. (I don't intend for this to change any rules of any kind. And this is not directed to all the mods)
I agree with you. I believe that the Smods are more of the problem. That is...for a select few. I'm not giving names, so don't attack me. The admins are good though.

Skiks
5th January 2006, 10:17 PM
I agree with you. I believe that the Smods are more of the problem. That is...for a select few. I'm not giving names, so don't attack me. The admins are good though.
I'd just like to know how the smods here need an ego check or a problem. Admins don't really do anything. They just keep the fourms running though some my mod if they wish to.