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Kiyohime
12th January 2006, 3:25 AM
Dearest authors, reviewers, closet readers and members who frequent the Fanfiction Forum, I would like to address an issue that has been increasingly becoming downright irritating. I don’t know if it affects everyone, but it certainly affects me and others who are slapped with the label “popular.”

I am exhausted and sick of this issue that has been flogged over and over. It’s like a dead horse.

I don’t know when this ridiculous bigotry began, but if I had to make a guess, it was about the time when the Summer Fanfiction Awards wrapped up.

I’m still new by some people’s standards (less than a year old) but when I first joined, no one knew me. I have been writing since I was eleven, which makes it around seven years that I’ve been writing stories, and this is the first time I’ve ever been deemed a “popular” author. It took me seven years of work to make my writing as widely regarded as it is now, and I never regretted it, but the way things have been going recently, I’m starting to feel as though people are forgetting what the whole concept of it means.

We write because we enjoy it, it’s a great hobby and a mental exercise that makes our minds work to grow, we improve on our English. English actually was not my first language, but I started learning it when I was about nine, and writing stories has contributed so much to my fluency in the language. People will remember that my first stories posted here (especially Negrek) I horribly mangled some of the punctuation staples such as the semi-commas and my “Poocyena” blunders. I was unknown, and a year’s worth of posting stories that people enjoyed was fun for me because it was the first time that people were enjoying my stories and giving me feedback. I’ll admit that I am pleased with the popularity, and I don’t feel guilty because it took a long time to get people to enjoy my preferred subject matter. Now I’m starting to try my hand at dry humor and action, but I would be the first to say that there are many authors here who can do that better than me. Everyone’s got their good points and weak points.

I love writing, and will always do, but I wish that people wouldn’t put so much emphasis on “popularity.” I assumed the entire point of writing was because we enjoyed to do it and because it let us be independent in creating our own stories and characters, not because we were hungry to be one of the “elite.” I do not understand why this issue has become so stretched-out-of whack as of late. I understand and acknowledge that people desire their stories to get attention and acclaim because it motivates them to write more and improve, but it should not have to create bitterness between those who are well-known and those who are not. We all share the love of writing, so why can’t we all try to stop slapping labels on authors based on petty things? Labels are for cans, not people, and last time I checked, I’m pretty sure I’m not a can of Spam.

People seem to think that the well-known authors are well-known because they have good connections. To me, I don’t know about that, but as I already stated, when I joined, no one knew me, and I simply started posting stories, and met people, and talked with them. Take me and Saber. I met her through reviewing stories, and she make a joke about my profile location, and you see the result today—Team Hobo. It’s a long-running inside joke, not an elitist thing. Maybe people assume that the authors PM each other to plug each other’s works, or to make fun of the newer authors. For me, yes, I do ask Serpent Syra and Saber to look at the newest story I’ve posted, and THEN I return the favor because we all value each other’s input and opinions. I have sent hundreds and hundreds of PMs to Syra and Saber, and other people, all discussing the same thing—our stories. We exchange ideas, give each other input, ask for advice….I don’t know how Syra puts up with me, as I’ve literally deluged him with PMs, frantic for advice with Aeon.

To me, that’s the best part of this forum—interacting with people and sharing our stories and helping each other improve. This may be some cheesy crap, and I agree--- this is no Gettysburg Address. XD But I’m hoping that it gets my point across. This is what people should be writing for, this is what we should be doing, instead of getting worked over how many reviews we have. This dispute between the supposedly “popular” authors and the “underdogs” is petty and undermines everything writing’s supposed to mean to us.

Thank you for taking the time to read this rant. ^^;

Yami Ryu
12th January 2006, 3:40 AM
I think I can explain the popularity issue from a netrual/underdog side/point/whatever, as untill recently, I really did not get readers or reviewers of anything I wrote (unless it was R ... or smutty .__.)

anyways, it's mostly because 'underdogs' or people that don't get attention, feel their work, (well, going from how I felt) is un apriciated, and well, why write when no one reads, I mean sure you can write, but why write it out/post it if there's not gonna be people reading it?

And it makes people feel even worse when there's only a select few getting nominated for an award thing, should know, when I was modding one of the last awards, before they started up again, I got a few nominations .. only cause I was mod. And when I didn't take the suck upping they gave, all but three changed their votes from me to other people :x

Not all people that write, do it for hobbies or for themselves, there's a bit of an attention seeker in all of us, and some writers strive to write to get it attention, or a bigger ego. Or whatever the reasons.

But you do have a point, this underdog crap has been beaten to death, I've been thinking, and, if the only way I could get an award, is because someone else was booted off for being 'popular' and was better than me, the award would be pointless. Though if the person was worse than me in writing, and got an award, I'd be just as insulted O.o

Think the popularity bit has been taken to the extremes, though Scrap, give it some time and everything should settle down again. Hopefully this is just a fad that'll go away.

Maybe people will rise up, like you Scrap, andtell it to all, that they have had enough of the popularity this, popularity that, and just rebel. Or do like me, avoid the awards all together. Or try too anyways.

and well, I probably came off as an ignoramous in this reply XD so .. I shall flee now.

*does so*

Flaming Lip
12th January 2006, 3:43 AM
I agree... popularity is just a stupid idea. The Fanfiction forum isn't a Caste System people! You can become a respected writer, with your writing.

I'll admit, that I got my first review to my really crappy first fic, because I had made friends with another member before posting it. BUT... that was only one member, all other people who reviewed my work, reviewed it without any connections (indeed, I became friends with Scrap, from her harsh review on my first fic, which, I saw as a wake-up call: my fic sucked!)

I do notify some of my friends here, when I post poems, but thats because I value thier input. I don't think I was really labled as Popular author. But I was thought that it was stupid to divide people like that, and to claim conspiracy or some nonsense like that. I felt a bit disapointed when, after posting the results of the Summer Awards (which I worked hard on a lot, mind you!), they were dismissed as unfair and biased, people claming that people only won awards becuase they were 'popular' and there were accusations of 'You Scratch my back, I scratch yours' ideals.

And that made me feel kinda bad. Everyone was eager to see the winners, and I rushed to get the scores all together, and I had tried hard to improve upon the PokéOscars, and the yet, I get criticised for not having a more 'fair' system.

Well I had left the voting to everyone, everybody had an equal opportunity too vote for the 'underdog!'

Its true that there is popularity involved in those things, BUT popularity doesn't come without reason.

Kiyohime
12th January 2006, 3:49 AM
Renegade, you were a mod? I assume of the Fanfiction section? If so, then you've seen firsthand what the drive for popularity does to writers.

Byzan, you're absolutely right, too. You could have hated my guts, (and probably did at first) but now we're swapping ideas, and you see the beauty of it? It's insane how the original purpose of your Awards got twisted into something else by teh results.

Eternal Daydreamer
12th January 2006, 3:57 AM
I guess you have a point, Scrap. And the mention of the Caste System is brought up well. This culture of the forum is turning into a culture that uses it!

I remember my first review, it was from Klaus. Didn't ask him, didn't know him at the time. He complimented my originality and I posted the next chapter soon after. Next day I came on and clammyshazam! had totally flamed it! I didn't fight with him but accepted that it wasn't very good. It turned out he was in a bad mood at the time and was taking it out on me, I accepted that fact.

I suppose popularity will grow. You can't stop it. I for one, have a few reviewers so I'm not an underdog or a popular author. None of my stories have star ratings, either. So that's all I can say.

Yami Ryu
12th January 2006, 4:03 AM
Renegade, you were a mod? I assume of the Fanfiction section? If so, then you've seen firsthand what the drive for popularity does to writers.

Yeah, most people would remember me as Yami Ryu, then Wing Zero, and Angelus.

yes I love to change my name a helluva lot. *coughs*

Yes, I have. I've seen some become attention *****s, some get their threads to turn into spam pits of well, hell, and the ilk to get people to review their fics. Then there were the blatant pluggers; 'wow your fic is cool, I like it very much, now read mine!'

And yeah, it just, is a horrible sight. Especially around award times. Hell, you know I just realised; as much as the people *****, moan, whine and grumble about popular authors winning everything.

Half of them are the voters or the nominators. When I participated in the last awards, I voted for my friends: not because they were my friends. Not because I would be the only ones voting for them, but because they actually wrote damn good stories, and no one else would see it but me, and a few others.

That went with the 'popular people' even though my friends were good writers too.

I think it's not about popularity. It's just a sheep mentality. I saw alot here, like in the last awards. And the awards before that. Mostly a handfull of people nominated, and voted for. Popularity was the cause, but it's the NOMINATORS own fault. Their repeat posts of 'Lily Pichu' 'Scrap' 'Dragonfree' 'etc' 'etc' made me realise now, and only now, that it doesn't matter what you do, because the majority, that are *****ing, seem to be the majority that voted/nominated you, and others, Scrap.

O__o the hypocricy scares little Renegade.

Edit: ZOMG the limboing stars have hit you too! *flees*

Kiyohime
12th January 2006, 4:05 AM
EXACTLY. Thank you, Renegade. oO

I got two awards, but Saber totally blew the Awards away. XD She deserved every award she got, and the really ironic thing is-- that was the first fanfiction she ever wrote. She is, technically, a beginner. XD

Flaming Lip
12th January 2006, 4:12 AM
Was that a shot at me? With the bit about fairness? Dude, someone gave a one-star ratting without even justifing it. I would've left the thread alone if that guy reviewed it. I don't know where you get the idea, that five star ratings are what we require. I could care less, and it should be taken with a grain of salt. It means nothing in my opinon, but nonetheless, its unfair, for someone to just randomly give it a zero.

>>

You can have an opinon, just like I, but you have no right to bash the opinion of others. Or to generalize people for that matter.


Now, yes, I am angry and should calm down but well... I'm sick of uber authors and their constant whining.

And I'm sick of people complaining about some sort of Caste System they claim exists.

Kiyohime
12th January 2006, 4:12 AM
I don't actually use star ratings. :/ Back when I joined, I made a rant against them because they were abused. :P

Yes, my work is overhyped. Yes, I have a lot of readers, but they aren't exactly fanboys. You want fanboys, you check out Breezy's work. ;P

However, this isn't a complaint about having everyone worship me. This is a complaint about people who blow the issue out of proportion regarding popularity. Your post didn't address that. You simply addressed how much you hate me and Renegade. Hating me because of the responses my stories get rather than over something I've done to you personally is childish and illogical.

EDIT: Meh, this whole post was directed at Zerodius, but he's deleted his post. :P Ignore this whole thing.

Yami Ryu
12th January 2006, 4:13 AM
Scrap, I will now state bluntly why there are people who hate your guts (I am included in those who hates you, by the way).

Because that you are an UB3R G0D WH0 W3 SH0ULD W0R5H1P!!!1111!!

That's why we hate you.

O.o I have not seen Scrap act like that. I think you're just acting on the resentment of being an 'underdog' and not having anyone like your work, or what you write, or how you write. All you're doing here, is going off topic, and flaming Scrap.

Bad little user.

Bad.


Now, to reviewers like Renegade.

I despise you. I despise you to the very core. You flame the heck out of newbies and do not even give them the slightest hint of a chance and that, no matter how hard they try. You are NEVER satisfied and NEVER post positive criticism. You keep on flaming and flaming and flaming... and people don't ban you cuz' you're named "Renegade". I hate you. It is possible to state facts WITHOUT flaming. It is possible to post that little something calle "CONSTRUCTIVE" criticism.

No hun, it's because, unlike you, I don't flame, bash, go off topic, or hunt people down with HATE HATE HATE HATE like you do. I don't smash people's ideas, or claim they're something they aren't.

Infact if you were trying to get a rise out of me, here's the truth.

I laugh at you. Seriously.

You got a chuckle out of me Zerodius, because you are acting like a child throwing a tantrum.

If I never posted crit, if I never posted anything that is a real review, I would be banned. For even though I might be a former mod, I am now a regular user, and am not free from the rules. I must act like a good little person.

But that doesn't mean I need to hide the truth between smoke and illusions and allow people to think they are good, when infact they aren't.

So if you can't take the heat Zerodius, please, GTFO of the kitchen.

Edit: Though I'm not surprised, you doing this. You did go 'I jump the bandwagon and bash Zephyr Flare's opinion'. So please Zero, don't post unless you can stay, on topic.

And Scrap; if Saber did that, then kudos to her. My first fanfic is something to laugh at. Greatly XD

Dilasc
12th January 2006, 4:24 AM
I know for a fact, that if I say anything at all that agrees with the 'popularity must end' aspect, I'll seriously look like the biggest hypocrite alive, since I have no doubt that I am one of the biggest contributors to this. I, am an entertainer, I write because there is a dramatic actor tugging at the strings to my spleen, esophagus, and my diaphraghm... to pose, to entertain, and to create epics that would make Shakespere cry home to his momma!

Without readers, there is no crowd to entertain. That is why I read other works in hopes of their reading... sure, the tips, the locating of a few errors here and there, and also the plot holes that need patching up are great too, but even those are tied to it in the end, since if they don't read, then I can't know. Yes, I too want to have my place in life. I seek my niche, my sense of belonging in the hearts and minds of total strangers as someone to be revered and respected. Let me ask this: Who doesn't? That is why I fight for the 'little man' whose story may or may be good, but is ignored.

Okay, so that may sound to make me not sound very interested in what someone writes. Not true! I can sound... erm, I mean, I can be very interested if it catches my eye, but I must say, I'm not much of a reader. Heck, I haven't read a paperback novel in years! I feel that using a book is almost plagurizing their style.

I'm not trying to push the good authors down, even though it'd make for an interesting (albiet guilt heavy) drama to see the mighty fall, but rather, I place the fault on the reader, NOT thw writer. It is up to the reader to read. In fact, should I ever GET 'popular' and top notch (HAHAHAHAHA! Maybe I'll win five lottery tickets while I'm at it,) I will suggest to my readers to go read a few other stories and not just get so wound up in mine alone (if I ever remember this, that is.)

What I'm not trying to do is rule the charts with an iron, dictatorial fist, I just want to entertain at all non-monetary costs! Heck, I try to let my story be known at every turn, but it's often unnoticed. That's why I say to readers, READ MORE STORIES, DANG IT!

Okay! Let me give my reason for this prospect that blames the reader instead of the writer. Let's take a look at some popular fics and the common review crew of that story. Now, I ask, how many other stories do they read. Sure, there's some that do read a lot, but I survey and stalk my prey... I mean, my potential readers, and or people I want to start reading other works in general.

Personally, I hate very few people here at these forums, or any for that matter. In fact, in my own awfully executed way, I wish to be noticed. Sure, this may sound like a lie, but deep down, I'm not really all that evil... at least not in that manner, anyway.

So long as a story is not a misspelled, grammatically puked up, cliched Maria Suzanna-fest, I would like to see people have an equal chance to get read or reviewed. That is, of course, a bit of a pie in the sky dream that would probably fall on my face in some creamy format for some slapstick result, with an audience laughing at it from some far away fourth wall I cannot see.

Now, I better go get my helmet, or I'll wind up with pie on my face! I'll have to admit, now that my innocent plans to simply spread the word of everyone have gone from push to shove, I must sincerely appologize. I really am starting to hope that things will change for the better, no matter what anyone may think of me. I'm just trying to stand up for the little man, but now I see that in the end, we are all little people. From you, to me, to aliens three billion lightyears away. We are all the little guy, trying to climb the ladder to greatness, but as we climb, the competition will try to push his foes and enemies off the ladder just to get ahead for his own benefit. It's time that this came to an end! NOW!

Eternal Daydreamer
12th January 2006, 4:24 AM
Zerodious, get out of the kitchen. Seriously. (Yes, I'm agreeing with you, almighty Renegade. No that isn't sarcasm either. I would die for someone of your stature to notice my fics.)

Zerodious, couldn't you say something that was on topic? Could you? Couldn't you?????!!!!!! :calms down: I cannot handle rudeness, which I count this as rude. Bluntness like Renegade's at the beginning is alright, she's not rude. A little blunt, perhaps but not rude. At the begining, anyways.

Saffire Persian
12th January 2006, 4:31 AM
Popularity - it's quite the double-edged sword, isn't it.

In my opinion, people complain about writers' popularity here for no apparent or understandable reason. Writers become popular because of their writing, and the reviewers/readers,etc. that make it so. People complain about the fact they're popular, yet they forget about the fact it was people like them who made them that way..

XD Find it rather ironic. But the thing is, all the popular authors, you..Saber..whoever I can think of around here deserve the attention they get. There's a reason you guys are popular, you write good stuff, dangit. 0_o...

But in any case, it's wrong to discriminate because of that - for example... anyone here going to get mad at J.K. Rowling because she's popular? .. That is just stupid, you know? I'm sure people have, but still, remind yourselves: who read her books and made her popular.. oy.

And Zerodius.. your points have no back up whatsoever... when you want to create a debate, do so in a manner that doesn't make you look like a complete fool of yourself.. Then maybe - maybe we'll decide to listen to you. ^^

billy5772
12th January 2006, 4:31 AM
Eh. If people stop being silly like this, what will there be to satirize/make fun of in The Drama of Serebii??

I understand how some people might get frustrated when they don't get enough attention, but I think that's the time when you need to step back and evaluate the gravity of the situation. I don't know about everyone else, so I won't speak for them,

-Everyone Else: Good. -

but I know why I write: because i have an overactive imagination that needs an outlet. That's about as deep as it goes with me. Of course, I'd like to entertain as many people as possible with the fruits of my labor, but if I end up only entertaining one or two people, it's still sufficiently satisfying to me. And that's what it's all about; being satisfied with what you've created and how it's affected the people it's been exposed to. I'm not hard to please when it comes to reviews and such, but some people just need a LOT of attention, and when they don't get it, they lash out at those that do if solely out of jealousy. And come on, it's only natural that someone would feel jealous after they see others succeeding in their passtime when they're failing.

Wtvr, I guess that's the way the cookie crumbles. [my original sig]

EDIT:
I write because there is a dramatic actor tugging at the strings to my spleen, esophagus, and my diaphraghm

Hey, you tell that creep that NO MEANS NO!

Lady Myuu
12th January 2006, 4:32 AM
note that I can't really say anything I wish I could say because of my status at this moment.


Zerodius, you are completly off topic and out of line with your post. Please be respectful of other members and do not bash. Your jealousy is as plain as like a man walking around a glass house in his underwear.

~*~

on topic: ... this is like what? the third </3 for popularity? Yes we want to be humble and its nice of you to state that but then again I think everyone is taking this a bit farther then it really is.

But I must admit, the way you wrote that makes me feel better, as I havn't really ever gotten the attention I wanted and have felt like I am under the shadow of other more yes I am going to say it 'popular' authors. Because people will read fics other people say are good, being popular means that you are respected and beloved for your work.

I am also glad that these 'popular' authors of these forums can be humble with there work. It is a good sign of maturity and those who are mature when they write and are respectful and humble will recieve what they deserve.

Now I know that this isn't always true as it does take time, as Scrap said seven years! wow! most authors have worked hard at what they do and as time goes on they recieve what they deserve.

But in the end, they are still people just like everyone else and they do what htey do because they love it. Not totally for attention (though that has its own place as well)

If we writers respected each other a little more, helped and enoureged one another some and never looked down on any idea but suggest newer and better ideas...

well, this place would be seen in a better light and not be hacked into the 'underdogs' and the 'popular'

then there are those who go around hating everything...

<< >>

I ramble.


edit:

Zero... just...
wow. -_- why do I think you really don't know what Scrap is trying to say do you? do you know what humbleness even is... no no I'm done.. or am I...

Zerodius(sp) I consider myself an underdog when it comes to fanfics and I respect and look up to the 'uber' authors as you call them. You don't get the respect you seem to be seeking because all you do is hate.

double edit: sometimes... I wonder what I even write when I ramble... *pokes her own post* wow I'm so weird.

Eternal Daydreamer
12th January 2006, 4:38 AM
I don't think you even know what humbleness is, Zerodious. Are you Violet Bearegaurde's long lost brother or something? (Bad joke, since Violet is a metaphore for the sin Pride. For those who don't know who she is, she's the blueberry girl. That ought to clear things up.)

Other than that, I agree with everything that everyone except Zerodious posted.

Kiyohime
12th January 2006, 4:39 AM
There's a certain degree of decorum with which well-known authors here are expected to handle ourselves. As common sense and manners dictate, you cannot flaunt your popularity, but at the same time, it seems too falsely humble to try and pretend we don't know we aren't popular. It's a tricky seesaw for sure, and Saffire put it the best-- it's a double edged sword. Handle with care. xP

Quackerdrill
12th January 2006, 4:42 AM
Whooooooaaaaa... slow down, guys. let's all take a deep breath and stop for a moment. Think about why you're here, why you use your free time to write for others to enjoy. Enjoy. Note I didn't say to earn a good rep, or to be "popular"... I said that you write because it is fun, and you love making people happy.

If that's not why you're here, then I would leave the "kitchen" before it's too late.

I think some of you are missing the point- Scrap is just a writer who happens to have a distinct style that many love. Members read her work because it is wonderfully written (and to my common knowledge, not cliched and illogical... XD). If we all would just focus on writing and reading instead of going crazy about number of reviews and awards, this would be a peaceful place, like when I joined here a year ago. Well, sorta. >_<; But you get the idea.

"Popularity", or to lighten the term to a more accurate one, "Having people read and appreciate your Fic", should not be a priority. It is, however, a perk. I did not ask anyone to review my newest fic. I was just patient, and some people volunteered. Some even surprised me.

Hear that?

Patient. I believe that this is something that some of us have a problem with.

So the bottom line here is that fun should come first on here, "popularity" second. And if you think there's no fun in not being reviewed, just be patient. Someone will find your work someday. Your day will come. Trust me. ^_^ Complaining will just lengthen the period. Take it from someone who's been there...

Klaus
12th January 2006, 4:42 AM
I joined this forum about a year ago and I joined just to publish my fics. It took a week for my first fic to get reviewed. I'd been writing for six years(started when I was eleven) but i'm not that popular, i'm about middle. I've attacted quite a few unique authors(Typhlogirl,xXSaberXx,Sike Saner, La Charlotte) and i'm satisfied with those guys. I would rather have some deticated readers who read my stories cause they want too and stick around to see what happens. You get readers that read it once and never come back. So, I feel like i'm growing cause xXSaberXx and Typhlogirl both help me with grammer. Back when I started, I killed the english language but with their help i'm gaining more and more skills. So, yes, I would faint if I ever got a review from some of the greater one but even if I don't, I know that the ones who read mine are really into my story and wont to find out about. But I do agree that some people don't give some fics a chance.

I guess typed enough,lol.

Sincearly Klaus

As always, be kind to the mime.;122;

billy5772
12th January 2006, 4:43 AM
And it's not humbleness, it's humility. But I, too, appreciate that the popular (why is everyone putting that in quotes?) authors aren't really big-headed or anything. Well...never mind. That'd make a good chapter...

Ryano Ra
12th January 2006, 4:46 AM
O.o I have not seen Scrap act like that. I think you're just acting on the resentment of being an 'underdog' and not having anyone like your work, or what you write, or how you write. All you're doing here, is going off topic, and flaming Scrap.

Bad little user.

Bad.



No hun, it's because, unlike you, I don't flame, bash, go off topic, or hunt people down with HATE HATE HATE HATE like you do. I don't smash people's ideas, or claim they're something they aren't.

Infact if you were trying to get a rise out of me, here's the truth.

I laugh at you. Seriously.

You got a chuckle out of me Zerodius, because you are acting like a child throwing a tantrum.

If I never posted crit, if I never posted anything that is a real review, I would be banned. For even though I might be a former mod, I am now a regular user, and am not free from the rules. I must act like a good little person.

But that doesn't mean I need to hide the truth between smoke and illusions and allow people to think they are good, when infact they aren't.

So if you can't take the heat Zerodius, please, GTFO of the kitchen.

Edit: Though I'm not surprised, you doing this. You did go 'I jump the bandwagon and bash Zephyr Flare's opinion'. So please Zero, don't post unless you can stay, on topic.

And Scrap; if Saber did that, then kudos to her. My first fanfic is something to laugh at. Greatly XDRenegade, you have never said truer words than that about Zerodius. >>; I don't know the person, but from the way he posts, I don't appreciate his attitude and such. It bothers me in the wrong way, a way that can get me banned for literally thrashing him with words. Zerodius, I wouldn't read your work because you have such a bad attitude.

As for the popularity aspect.

Scrap, you couldn't have put it in better words. I wouldn't even consider myself popular, for I haven't written anything for such a long time. But, no, you don't bog me down with your hundreds of bazillions advice PMs about Aeon, because in return, I bog your PMs with banner requests and such. I try to help as many people as I can (except for the ones like Zerodius, who deserve no help from the way he acts and posts ignorantly) because I feel we act as one, together as one, and either we are all popular or we are all nothing but little writers trying to improve in the best possible ways we can. I don't even think there's no such thing as popular authors; they are just recognized for their hard work and sheer dedication. Is that classified such as popularity, when you work hard and read others stories to help your way to success? Because we help each other and support the stories, giving advice on how to improve and when we do, we shine the light on others and they review our work? Hell no. That isn't popularity. That's working together.

Kiyohime
12th January 2006, 4:47 AM
*imagines one of the SPPF Drama's characters' head swelling like a big balloon* That moment there was so Jonathan Stroud just now. XD

Humility, not humbleness, huh? I stand corrected. Sankyoo. XD

EDIT: Syra, you post fast. oO Couldn't have summed it up better than that.

Lady Myuu
12th January 2006, 4:50 AM
I don't even think there's no such thing as popular authors; they are just recognized for their hard work and sheer dedication. Is that classified such as popularity, when you work hard and read others stories to help your way to success? Because we help each other and support the stories, giving advice on how to improve and when we do, we shine the light on others and they review our work? Hell no. That isn't popularity. That's working together.


wow... why is it everyone can write what I was trying to write so much better then me? I guess I was to angry at someone to think clearly *applauds*

I have never really seen popularity as an issue until threads like these pop up XD


oh and humility and humbleness both work I think.

Eternal Daydreamer
12th January 2006, 4:50 AM
*imagines one of the SPPF Drama's characters' head swelling like a big balloon* That moment there was so Jonathan Stroud just now. XD

I think that moment would be better if they blew up like a blueberry! (Sorry, couldn't help myself. Dear Scrap, you just set yourself up like that!)

I thought humbleness was hand in hand with humility. I guess I was wrong.

billy5772
12th January 2006, 5:02 AM
Who knows. Humbleness just didn't sound right to me. It probably is, though. Lesson to be learned: disregard what billy says. I have enough humbleness to admit when I might be less than perfect.

Dilasc
12th January 2006, 5:03 AM
The worst part about this topic, I have to wonder who caused this to even be sparked up as a topic! It's me damn it! It's all my fault! There are no other people who caused this catastrophic event! It's all my fault! Why don't we just stop using 'you people' and generalizing and just point the fingers already. We are obviously here to genocidally slaughter all forms of Fanfic bigotry, well start by putting the perps in the open and hunting them down like the dogs we are, and even humiliate us pathetic dogs! Yes, I am asking to take a walk of shame.

Before I do, I'm going to look at the coin from the aspect of an expert writer that is unread (which means it's definitely NOT me.) Said expert writer has a quality that would make the GODS tremble before his 1337 ability to twist the english language to its limits! Yet, he has not even half as many readers as the lowest ranking member of the well knowns. Now, before I allow everyone to let rip your despite for me, just think on it. Remember, fixing the problem starts with all of us, and our ability to read someone else's story.

Ad final words before my overexaggerated martyrdom takes place, I would like to make a suggestion. Go out there and read an unread story, rather than just talking about this! Fixing the broken system starts with those that follow the laws said system dictates upon them, and not abusing said laws.

This whole thread was started because of me, and my jealousy of never being the big talk of the town. Suddenly, it is something I am starting to no longer want any more... at least for the time being.

I will remain a martyr, and fess up for my sins of being a writer who has tried to ursurp the system and subliminally force others to read other works. Just don't be too harsh on me, I'm doing this because it's time I come clean. To everyone else who needs to come clean, get the hell out here and admit it at long last! I don't even care any more if people hate or like my work. I will say that I would prefer the popularity game come to an end, and leave authors like myself and others a new chance to rise to the most respected, at this point, I just don't deserve anything.

Man, I'm such a softie and an angsty drama queen at heart, aren't I? If you feel like it, then go ahead and tell me that I'm overreacting. It's probably the truth anyway, but still, I am at fault in this matter.

Lady Myuu
12th January 2006, 5:06 AM
according to fanfiction.net:


Humbleness \Hum"ble*ness\, n.
The quality of being humble; humility; meekness.



Humility \Hu*mil"i*ty\, n.; pl. Humilities. [OE. humilite, OF.
humilit['e], humelit['e], F. humilit['e], fr. L. humiliatis.
See Humble.]
1. The state or quality of being humble; freedom from pride
and arrogance; lowliness of mind; a modest estimate of
one's own worth; a sense of one's own unworthiness through
imperfection and sinfulness; self-abasement; humbleness.
[1913 Webster]


Billy :O you are right and wrong, tis the same thing XD

edit: o.o @ Dilasc

Kiyohime
12th January 2006, 5:08 AM
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Dilasc, you're not at fault. Yes, your comment in the Interview thread was the straw that broke the camel's back, but the root of all this is the controversy of the Summer Fiction Awards. No one is blaming you or pointing fingers. I simply want to address this issue, but I don't intend to turn it into a blame game.

Zerodius
12th January 2006, 5:10 AM
OK...

Quote:
I don't even think there's no such thing as popular authors; they are just recognized for their hard work and sheer dedication. Is that classified such as popularity, when you work hard and read others stories to help your way to success? Because we help each other and support the stories, giving advice on how to improve and when we do, we shine the light on others and they review our work? Hell no. That isn't popularity. That's working together.

End quote.

Mister, you are ignorant. No, I am not flaming. You simply are too idealistic and forget that the readers are only humans.

I have a confession now... why am I so blunt, acid, and downright nasty about this issue? Because that I used to be an uber author on other sites and knows how it feels and how the nasty cycle of overhyping works.

Ever heard of "Chronicles of Darkness"? That was a nice, long fic that was posted on a board that doesn't exist anymore. People read it and then I was hailed as the best author ever. I got a big inflation in ego and was really happy, seeing everyone hail me as the best author and seeing every single fic I posted becoming an instant success. Quickly enough, nobody dared to touch me and everyone listened to me.

But then, after a while, I realized something.

It didn't mattered if my stories were good or bad as long as "Zerodius" was the name of the author.

I also noticed how badly I was hated by underdogs.

... and reading my fics again... I realized how inferior to were to Chronicles of Darkness and how badly I was overhyped.

So what did I do? I changed my username and restarted anew... and realized that although Chronicles of Darkness was good, hype and fanboys was the TRUE reason for the success of my other fics. Needless to say, that was a nasty lesson of humility.

Now, I come on this board... what do I see?

People who are in the exact same situation I was in.

Now, the reason I lashed on was more of a reaction to older threads and to a misreading of this one than a personal attack ; quality is, unfortunately, not a factor when popularity is in the picture. Hype and fanboys are much more important, sadly.

As such, I will ask the uber authors to not be blind. When I said that uber authors were whining, I was referring to little threads like "Is the fics' quality going down?" where uber authors whined that the general quality of fanfiction had gone down because of newbies joining. Such arrogance frustrated me to the highest point because that I have been both to the top and bottom and understood how both sides felt.

Now, I believe that a deletion of my old rant should be a good thing to do and yes, I admit that I am definitely not an underdog and that maybe that last rant was self-flaming because of my past and because of fear of seeing authors on this site becoming nearly as bad as I once was.

Apologies to those who were offended by my last rant... and also for the topic hijacking, going so far off-topic and all.

... now... can I post on-topic? Well, let's see...

Now, I understand frustration that some uber authors and underdogs alike might feel from this (frankly) meaningless war... but well, I will state a fact:

The war will never end.

It is a fact. As long as people will have different levels of skills, some people will be recognised more and eventually, be overhyped and turned into living gods, may they like it or not.

There are three solutions to this problem...

First, give a forum just for the uber authors and their fanboys, separating the elites from the common people... but I frown on this.

Second, eliminate the community aspect, eliminating the possibility of uber authors appearing. Again, I frown on this.

Third, alternative solutions. I suggest that closet readers should finally start posting. Also, even if a fic is the worst ever, don't just rate ; comment, even if you're a bad reviewer. Also, don't just keep reading the work of one author ; you should judge the stories, not the authors.

I guess I probably killed my chances of ever being seen as nothing more than a clown by posting in this thread but well, anyway...

Again, apologies for the inconvenience... and remember that the true role of this forum is NOT the community aspect but the stories. They are the true reason we are all on this forum, after all. It's hard to believe but true.

We are not here for reviews, for popularity, for fame... we are here to share our stories and to read those same stories and nothing else. Thus, I shall stay true to this statement and stop flaming in an endless crusade that leads nowhere.

Yes, I have probably been hypocritical in this post and contradicted myself... but well, I hope I didn't do it too much.

Now, have a nice day everyone.

Lady Myuu
12th January 2006, 5:11 AM
I don't see why we keep dwelling on this fact... we know what is wrong and we can rant on it all we want but... I think Dilasc has a point with the doing something about it.

Course I'm being a hypicrit... << >> *doesn't review much*

edit: why does the turn uber author annoy me? O.o

Klaus
12th January 2006, 5:11 AM
OMG!....Dilasc......that was beautiful*sniff*

Yes, we should just stop talking about it and fix it. If we're all ranting on about it. Let's just stop. Go out and read and unread story, go discover an undiscoved author, just..stop the problem.

Sincearly Klaus

As always, be kind to the mime.;122;

Negrek
12th January 2006, 5:16 AM
*sigh* When you said you wanted to be over and done with this, I thought that meant we wouldn't be seeing another of these topics creep in here...

I can't say I sympathize with either side, really: those that some might call popular, and those that categorize themselves as the oppressed unpopular.

If you are one of the authors who is considered popular and are hurt by the way that others are speaking about you or your work, then that is an issue that you should take up with them. PM them about it, let them know that you don't appreciate when they generalize about your habits, and maybe ask them to explain why it is that they think you don't deserve what you have. Because this is really the underlying issue: the unpopulars don't believe that the populars deserve their status.

If you don't feel like confronting the person in question, then by all means, go rant about it. Rage and flame and name names and bash. But please, keep this to yourself. This is what an LJ is handy for: all the wangst that is best kept unseen except by people who are sympathetic to you and will pat you on the back and feel better.

Please keep your issues out of forum posts. Writing in posts about how you're crying or will never write again because a few people have gotten all whiny about how you steal all the glory is childish and bringing on the wank. It makes you look like a drama queen. It makes you look like you're starved for attention and clutching shamelessly to your reputation, unable to accept that some people don't like you. The drama is not needed, thanks, and it's only adding fuel to the fire of the opposition.

You already have readers. You do not need to worry about the opinions of the few and the so-called oppressed. Ignore them, and the debate will die away. If you continue to wank about how everyone hates you for being beautiful, you're only keeping the issue simmering.

All right, now listen up, all ye unappreciateds: quit giving crap to the popular authors. I understand why you have issues with them. In many repects, I'd say that I sympathize with your opinions. However, coming out and attacking someone because their work is popular is just wrong. Whining because public opinion didn't sway your way is wrong.

Again, the reason that you feel so resentful of the popular authors is because you feel that they don't deserve their position, right? In essence, you feel that you could do better, and yet your genius goes unrecognized. You accuse them of underhanded methods, of cliques and of scheming. You say that theirs is only an empty title, bestowed by the blind and grunting masses.

All right then. Now you just need to ask yourselves if getting all in their face about it is going to change anything. If you're so morally and literarily superior, why is it that you feel the need to tear them down instead of build yourself up? Attacking them will just cause them to wank and make their supporters--and oh, you were just whining about how many of those they had, weren't you?--come running to defend them. What have you proved? What have you gained? The popular authors are stroked, and you are told to stfu and go away.

And guess what? You should. If you truly feel that there's a problem with the popularity of the authors, then you need to consider this: are you angry because you want what they have, or because you feel that the methods that they've used to achieve what they have (whatever you perceive those to be) are wrong.

You want what they have? Well, guess what. Why don't you stop whining and go do something about your popularity issues? You want to become a BNF? Try PMing the ones that are already here for advice. Contrary to what you might think, they are actual people and not evil internet constructs. I'm sure that they will be glad to give you some pointers or drop you a review. Well, as long as you're civil about it.

For those of you who prefer the moral high ground, consider what sort of morals you're displaying by childishly bashing the authors that you seem to despise so. If you do not wish to follow their path to greatness, which you have deemed so corrupt and outright wrong, then you need to follow your own. Support stories that you believe should become great. Do as you ask others to do: read underdog stories. Review them. Help the newbies become great. And you know what? That will make worlds more difference than coming in and tearing down someone else's reputation.

And now for the clincher: if you really are getting worked up over all of this, then have more faith in yourself. If you're popular but depressed because a few people are trying to stir up trouble and apparently have it in for you, then take faith in your work. If you believe that your story is good enough, then who cares what they think? You clearly have supporters who enjoy your work, and there's no reason to be troubled by a few dissenters.

If you don't have so many supporters, then don't try to take it out on others. Again, have faith in your writing. You believe it to be excellent; allow it time to gain a reputation and draw in the appreciation. Even if few other people seem to care about your work, know that you care, and don't worry about whether life is fair (newsflash: it's not) and instead on whether or not you've done your best work. If you are so sure of its greatness, then there should be no need of someone else to affirm this for you.




This lesson in "how to piss off both factions at once" is now complete. *bows*

Eternal Daydreamer
12th January 2006, 5:17 AM
OMG!....Dilasc......that was beautiful*sniff*

Yes, we should just stop talking about it and fix it. If we're all ranting on about it. Let's just stop. Go out and read and unread story, go discover an undiscoved author, just..stop the problem.

Sincearly Klaus

As always, be kind to the mime.;122;
I mentioned our favorite gumchewer several times and you have failed to comment. And you have misspelled my name, twice. It's La Carlotta not La Charlotte. Change it, please and thank you.

Good stuff Dilasc.

Psychic
12th January 2006, 5:17 AM
I agree that the popularity of a writer can cloud other’s judgments, so for example, even a popular writer who posts a crappy fic gets praised.

I myself write because I’m trying to improve. I want to post my stories and receive feedback from other people my age so that I know if I’m doing something properly and well. I’d like to become a writer some day, and write teen/young adult books, and there are very good writers here at those ages who I can get great reviews from so I know how to improve and what to improve on.

Although it’s true; everybody strives for attention. Especially Id driven people will (go to the most lengths to) attempt to gain attention through any possible means, even if it’s through fanfiction on a Pok&#233;mon forum. Anyways, each of us wants to be noticed, even a TINY bit. We all want to become better writers, but getting noticed along the way is something we all enjoy, no matter how much we try to deny it.


I’m not a popular writer, and few of the people whose fics I review like me. When I first joined, I didn’t know a single person here. I had a fic, but when I compared it to that of a few other people, I realized it was terrible. So I went on living a poor existence on Serebii, not really doing anything.
So I undertook writing my first serious Pok&#233;mon fic, The Mutations. I posted a Prologue, then the first chapter. After a little while, I got a little review from some random poster who thought it was good. And I jumped for joy, because someone was reading and enjoying my work.

Time went on, a few more people reviewing my fic, I made my first friend (The Cheshire Cat, now [Tyranitar]), but I wasn’t so happy that nobody was looking at my fic. That was when I realized I needed to get out and start exploring the forum, posting to get the word out that Psychic had a fic. That was ultimately why I started reviewing: hoping people would notice the advertisement in my sig and check out my fic. Funnily enough, reviewing other people’s fics (especially n00by ones) ended up helping me to become a better writer.

More time passed, and Scrap joined the forum. Scrap-o, if you remember, you were EVERYWHERE reviewing fics. You seemed to get to every fic first, and I thought your reviews were just amazing. Critical, harsh but truthful, kinda like Renegade’s (and mine, seeing as I was little softie reviewer until I met you).
So I started getting competitive and went to review more and more fics. Then you started actually writing and mostly lost interest in reviewing.



Anyways, since then, I’m still not any more popular, I haven’t gotten anywhere and the only thing that’s changed about my reputation is that I’m a harsh but good review. But nobody even notices me any more, so blah. I feel cheated, because even after all the effort I put in to helping others get better, nobody cares or even thanks me, and that’s the bitter truth. I’ve gained friends and made enemies, but in the end, I still go unnoticed.
If anyone thinks their case is miserable, check out the girl who’s been a member since late ’04.




I havn't really ever gotten the attention I wanted and have felt like I am under the shadow of other more yes I am going to say it 'popular' authors.
It’s a shame, because you, Myuu, are really a great writer. But your fics, like Mending (which I have half a review for), which I LOVED, seem to be, like you said, overshadowed and overlooked as people go and check out the more popular fics.





To the uber authors, I will now state bluntly why there are people who hate your guts.

Because that you are an UB3R G0D WH0 W3 SH0ULD W0R5H1P!!!1111!!

That's why we hate you.
Funny how you never caught me as being the jealous type until now. Your reasoning has no REASON to it, and your blunt comments make little sense.

You’re stereotyping everyone as having these huge egos, but haven’t you seen how humble they’re being? They aren’t shoving it into your face, so why you to them?



Now, to reviewers like Renegade.

I despise you. I despise you to the very core. You flame the heck out of newbies and do not even give them the slightest hint of a chance and that, no matter how hard they try. You are NEVER satisfied and NEVER post positive criticism. You keep on flaming and flaming and flaming... and people don't ban you cuz' you're popular. I hate you. It is possible to state facts WITHOUT flaming. It is possible to post that little something called "CONSTRUCTIVE" criticism.
Are you kidding?! Renegade is one of the most truthful and honest people here! When she reviews fics of writers who are n00bish and don’t even put any effort into reading the rules and writing properly, she tells them outright that they need to improve! Other people just post saying how wonderful a fic is with no reasoning to back it up, just stroking the egos of these people so they’ll feel good and accomplished!
If reviewing like Renegade is a sin, then I should be in Hell, because I’VE BEEN REVIEWING LIKE THAT LONGER AND MY REVIEWS WERE HARSHER, LONGER AND JUST AS BLUNT AND TRUTHFUL! TELLING WRITERS THE TRUTH ISN’T A BAD THING! YOU SEEM TO BE AGAINST STROKING OTHER PEOPLE’S EGOS, BUT LYING AND TELLING BAD WRITERS HOW GOOD THEIR WORK IS IS THE SAME!

And we remember that One-Shot you posted. If that’s the root of this problem, then you have to face it; that thing was not something you should have posted here! We told you the truth about it, and didn’t lie.






Okay, so that may sound to make me not sound very interested in what someone writes. Not true! I can sound... erm, I mean, I can be very interested if it catches my eye, but I must say, I'm not much of a reader.
Dialasc, I don’t want to be the one to bring this up, but I found that you, like me, also only went out and reviewed fics for publicity. When you posted Dust to Deceit, you went mad about it.
And I hate to say it, but whenever you read a newb, forget n00b, fic, you pounce on the writer right away and attack them with any errors you could find, never giving them a real chance. Then you recommended they read other, better fics, and gave them links to yours.

You always strived for attention, I noticed that about you, and you tried anything to get it. You made references to your fics whenever possible, in hopes it would get noticed.




Wow, that was a long post. I never knew I had so much to say, or that there were so many people to quote. I also probably got a few arguments started and caught the attention of a few people. Hopefully.

~Psychic
EDIT: Sorry; when I wrote this post, I swear there were only about ten posts in this topic. Yes, I took a LONG time to type this up. I'm ridiculously slow.
Yea, sorry Zerodious. I was also kinda caught in the moment. But what I said about your second quote is true. Of course, you'll probably never notice this edit...

Spectre
12th January 2006, 5:18 AM
Yer...

After reading a couple of pages of people blaming/ranting bout the fact of how some authors get more recognition, I kinda believe that if they got the title, they deserve it.

Fame/power will corrupt a person, no matter what. This has been shown in history, the present, and the future.

Like what Klaus said, forget bout complaining and proving your point, ACT. Actions say more than all the words in the world.

Zerodius
12th January 2006, 5:23 AM
Funny how I still get bashed on a delete post... but well, anyway. Maybe they just posted before I finished deleting my post and posting my new one...

Negrek's post is unfortunately for both sides, very true and is what my original post should have looked like. As such, cheers to you!

To Ichimaru, yes, popularity is a form of power and everyone knows that power corrupts and that, no matter how badly we want to resist it.

Now that I have stated my last opinions and comments, I guess I should stop replying to this thread... or maybe not. I'll keep on reading and see if anything interesting comes up.

Who knows? Maybe I'll get some inspiration and chuckles out of this thread which I'll put to good use in stories or something like that...

Lady Myuu
12th January 2006, 5:25 AM
Yes Pychic! PLUG ME PLUG MY FIC MWAHHA *runs*

<< I have waaay to much humor in me. its kinda creepy...

anyway... topic topic... there it is....

while I just kinda skimmed through the uber posts I have to agree with Psychic on alot of things. I find how many different views on this issue seem to intrige me to keep reading.

To be blunt, I find this whole topic somewhat silly. As its turning into something way from what Scrap meant it to be.

But anyway, if we need one of these topics to hit a few people back down to earth, so be it. Just remember people, respect one another and help each other when one falls down.

Because its so much harder getting up when you are alone.

Kiyohime
12th January 2006, 5:27 AM
The whole point of this was to express how sick of the issue I was, and I hoped to end it by pointing the fallacies out to everyone, so I apologize if it's somehow worsened the issue and upset people, as I didn't intend to act like a drama queen, Negrek. :x I'm sorry, as I don't want to make it all one big flame war. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. ^^;

Typhlogirl
12th January 2006, 10:11 AM
Now children, don't be naughty and fight or you won't get any candies!

XD

Anyway, on a serious note, I believe the issue of popularity is one that we shall never be free of, as it is a part of life. However, we can do our best to try and fight it off. Let me tell you a story...

When I first began visiting Serebii, about a year ago, I only dreamed of being a member and posting my fanfictions up here. Why? Because I wanted recognition and fame as an 'uber' author. I wanted people to praise my work, say it was the best they had ever seen, and worship it. Yah, I was a leetle bit...deluded XDDD (a better word would be retarded, but let's not go there, shall we?)

Everyone who comes to this area of the forum to post their work always has this in their mind somewhere, no matter how much they try to deny it. Fame and recognition. Societies diseases. But everyone wants them.

I now realise, after my experiences in the Summer Awards, that I find it far more rewarding to just...write because I want to. You don't need awards, or tons of praise to write. It's a hobby. No matter how popular you may be on some site as an author, it shouldn't affect how you view the actual activity. We get so caught up in being popular, that we forget why we started writing in the first place. For enjoyment. To express our creativity. It saddens me how people can forget that in this battle for supremecy. Sure, some people may write better than others, but we all write for the same thing.

I find it disgusting how everyone resents each other. How some authors resent others because they get more reviewers than them. It pisses me off how people ***** about how no-one is reviewing their fic, when there's a whole bloody thread of people offering their services. That annoys me. It also annoys me how jealous members attack the authors who get more reviews. Geez. Get over it.

No matter how much we discuss it, the issue of popularity is never going to go away. We can either ignore it, or we can learn from it.

Regards,

-;157;

P.S. Arghz, Typhlogirl doesn't like being uber-serious. Sorry if that entire post made absoluelty (sp? shut up.) no sense. O_o;;

Jetx
12th January 2006, 2:04 PM
Ya know. I find the label 'popular' painfully annoying. If its a popular author some reviewers are afraid to be negative to them. But as for unpopular authors who've had bad fics in the past but their current is good they're never given such a chance.

For example, nobody will read Shroomy's adventures now because the first few chapters failed miserably. So I'm making chapter 5 alot more clear. So that people can start reading it from there if they don't wanna read the previous bad ones. But now that I'm 'unpopular' is it even gonna make a difference?

I'm glad that even 'popular' authors such as Scrap are annoyed too.
As typlogirl said the issue of popularity will never go away. Why am I aiming for popularity if it's not good?

If a popular author with a good fic writes a bad one it's called good. if an unpopular one with a bad previous fic writes a good one it's considered bad. IMO.

If this is a massive discussion, it technically can't be won.

NOTE: I haven't read many of the previous posts.

mindripper
12th January 2006, 2:10 PM
Heads up to everyone who has posted on this thus far. Klaus' post was pretty short, but he summed it up the best. Instead of wasting time arguing over an issue which one side will be overtly critical of and the other overtly defensive, why not just use the time to go review or something. I never caught Zerodius' first post, but if he has been ridiculously off topic or personally insulting, then he is obviously already the wrong. Will harping on his deleted post bring any joy to anyone, least of all the authors who are trying to protect their reputations and the authors that are trying to just survive on these boards? Of course, i realise that I have been argumentative at times, but then and again do as I preach, not as I practise.

Let me say a few words about the current situation. I agree that authors who are praised in general have earned that, and however they do so is completely at their discretion, and is not our place to question how they did so. If they have taken time to be nicer to others, then all power to them. If they review and get reviewers in return, then ask why you cannot do the same. There are always reasons why inequality exists, and besides a person;s natural talent, it is completely in a person's power to make all other controls equal. At times, people, me included, are simply guilty of resting on our laurels, and believing that a good piece of work carries us through. There are many other factors in the mix, which we tend to neglect.

Zerodius' main argument is that authors are judged more by their names than anything else. His own analogy vindicates his own opinions, even though I felt his comments were misplaced, from what I gathered of Psychic's quote. Skim over that, and you realise that his points are unfortunately valid. Arguing about the validity of the comments solves nothing, doing something does. To all the people who feel maligned, try not to forget that you all are in a great position compared to those who are just skimming by. People write and post not just because they like to, but also because they hope to share with other people. You all have accomplished that, and everything is going great besides the fact that some authors want a slice of that pie, and feel that you all have perhaps been hoarding too much of it. By-product of success. People grumble about not getting reviews, and they grumble even after they get reviews. Sorry, but that is very much true. I am sure most new authors would swap places with all you popular authors out there, so do not feel too bad about your current positions. Why not just stop all this and have some peace for once? And try to help others a bit more. Maybe it will work, maybe it will not, but at the least we are actually doing something about it than taking swipes at each other, and I am getting damn sick of seeing these threads every few days. Let's just stop this for a while and see what we can do about things, ok?


Anyways, since then, I’m still not any more popular, I haven’t gotten anywhere and the only thing that’s changed about my reputation is that I’m a harsh but good review. But nobody even notices me any more, so blah. I feel cheated, because even after all the effort I put in to helping others get better, nobody cares or even thanks me, and that’s the bitter truth.

Believe me or not, I was looking at your preview thread that day, and I remembered that I never really caught up on the Mutations at all. I did make an unwritten promise that I would review that fic. Er, you were a smashing reviewer, and I wa sad that you seemed to have gotten delusioned about the whole thing. Thanks for everything thus far, and I will see you at your new fic's thread.

Well, any thread with the word "popularity" on it is bound to get heated. I hate this discussion, but I am still going to give my two cents worth, just because I feel I should. I dislike arguing with EC or Renegade or anyone else, but sometimes I just get so sickened that I just lash out however I can, sickened not by them, but how poorly we all conduct ourselves, myself especially at times. Please, just stop all the flaming, arguments, attacks and vehement defending, and let's just try to co-exist as a community for a while. If people seem to need help, then give it if possible. If not, then the last thing we need is an argument while solving nothing.

Also, I meant what I said. You may think its BS, fine by me, but I do not feel like being quoted in the drama of serebii or anything, so all this is not officially on record.

Yami Ryu
12th January 2006, 2:40 PM
Zerodius, your 'excuse' gave you no right to have flamed people in such a mannor, least of all me. You should be ashamed to be using the excuse that you were an 'underdog' here, to have been like that. That, was just wrong, nasty, and vile. Even when I was un noticed, I never attacked authors that were better than me, like that.

Maybe you're not un noticed because of your stories, but because no one wants to review someone with such a nasty attitude. Maybe if you're more curtious and kinder to people, and less a little flaming idjit, you'll get reviewers.

Oh, and one last thing. I loved how you claimed my popularity would keep me un banned. t_t what popularity. I wasn't popular when I was mod, I'm not popular now, and I really don't care.

I want reviewers not popularity *runs*

O_o which sorta means I was so shocked and amazed that people do see me as someone respectable, and so high up there in writing. Psychic you should know though, I mean I still haven't figured out if that typo in Angel vs Team Magma, was supposed to be Wild or While XD so it has remained whilde or whatever it was XD

And back to Zerodius; you can't expect people to love your work in all places. You can't expect people to think you're a great writer. (especially with that attitude to other writers --; ). And when you flame like that, you make people think you don't want to do what we did, to get 'popular' or 'noticed' or 'reviewers', we worked hard to get our writing to the level it's at, to get our stories and plots developed enough to be intriguing. Just because you can't or won't, does not give you the excuse to attack others...

.. it'd be like saying because Myuu can draw humans I should flame her O__o

Jetx, try deleting the thread, revising the chapters, and posting them again. As I can honestly tell you, just working the fifth chapter out, will not help you. Not many people will plough through four chapters of badness, hoping the fifth gets better. It sorta makes them doubt the fact.


No matter how much we discuss it, the issue of popularity is never going to go away. We can either ignore it, or we can learn from it.

Typhlogirl has a point. It's like political correctness >_< maybe if we ignore it, it'll become something n00bs and rule breakers whine over or something.

But there's one thing I realised; what if by doing this, people lose reviewers and readers, because they are 'popular' and the readers/reviewers flock to the 'unpopular', where does that leave us, or you, or whatever, that's considered popular?

o.o; I could see alot of double posting ...

This 'Underdog' act was a bit good to begin with. Get unpopular or unnoticed authors into the spotlight, maybe show off their works and get people interested in them. Like a thread, that would be fine, oh, wait, there already is. Not for ideas, but for reviewers O_o But then there's alot of this 'I review your fic, now review mine', or atleast there was when I last saw the way reviewing went.

I was hit by a person like that, blatantly showed they hadn't read my fic, then in spoiler tags no less, wanted a review to read their fic. Like, it's okay for that to be done, because, they read my fic. Maybe if people asked like, I've taken the time to read, mull over, and review your story; would you be kind enough to return the favor?

It would sorta be nicer and less insulting >> but yeah now I get off topic...

Anyways, yeah, those are my points, offtopic and on topic.

So sorry Scrap for offtopicness further XD

Yamato-san
12th January 2006, 3:18 PM
I'm not even trying with those awards anymore. I used to seek popularity, get noticed, and why? Because I wanted commentary, figure ways on how to improve my storyboard. But I realized I had it all wrong... if I try and get my name out there, all I end up getting is more and more and more closet readers. Besides, it's not as though I'm trying to make a name for myself as a guy who wrote some great fanfiction. Doujinshi's my passion, and what I need to do is actively seek out the type of people I'm looking for: anime reviewers and such. If I wanna make an actual Japanese doujinshi, a storyline with depth on par with several of the commercial series, those are the type of people I need to be looking for. In the meantime, I should work on finishing my script.... I haven't worked on it in a while. I got a few jobs doing translations, but once I finish my current project, I'm focusing on my next chapter, dammit.


Before I do, I'm going to look at the coin from the aspect of an expert writer that is unread (which means it's definitely NOT me.) Said expert writer has a quality that would make the GODS tremble before his 1337 ability to twist the english language to its limits! Yet, he has not even half as many readers as the lowest ranking member of the well knowns. Now, before I allow everyone to let rip your despite for me, just think on it. Remember, fixing the problem starts with all of us, and our ability to read someone else's story.

It's always gotta be about how they twist the English language to its limits, isn't it? What about the f***in' storyline, huh? Shouldn't that be what matters? I am so friggin sick of all this crap emphasis on the description and how many typos are made and other stuff that doesn't help me in any way. Given, I am a special case, working towards making a visual art form that'll originally be in a language entirely different from English (yeah, my script's in English, so what? I try for a transliteration, and the script is bound to go through many changes anyway, particularly when I know more Japanese). Regardless, the story itself should be getting more props.


Ad final words before my overexaggerated martyrdom takes place, I would like to make a suggestion. Go out there and read an unread story, rather than just talking about this! Fixing the broken system starts with those that follow the laws said system dictates upon them, and not abusing said laws.

No can do. I'll be blunt: I really don't like fanfics all that much, probably because I don't really like narratives, which most of these things are. In school, I read Lord of the Rings. I thought it'd be great, having seen the animated movie from the late '70s, but actually reading it was dull as hell. I'd go through a page, look up at the long paragraph I just read through, and think to myself "What the f*** just happened?" I managed to grasp some of it, but it was like this for quite a bit of the book. Because of this, I have a huge preference for visual mediums, since they're easier to grasp and take less of my time to get through the story. Anime, manga, movies, video games.... to hell with novels, I say. Don't see why our society puts so much damn emphasis on those things and shun all the others. Makes me wanna puke. I write in script because, aside from drafting for my own manga, it breaks away from that narrative norm that everyone else has.

Now, I will read a fic on occasion. Usually if it's comedy (one prominent example being n00b fic parodies), I'm willing to take up my time if it's good for a laugh, and comedies are easy to follow even when a narrative, since they have rather simply-described scenes and crack-up one-liners. I also read The Big Al's fics, since I feel I owe it to the guy for reviewing my own story, and he is among the most recognizeable users I see on Serebii. I'm a bit honored that he's been inspired by my own writing style, as well. A friend if you will, even though I don't talk to him on IM or nothing. Besides those, I hardly read any other fics. I have better things to be doing with my time than getting lost in narratives (especially now that I'm translating).

And I think that "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" is crap. On Pokecommunity, there's a user named Strawberry Delcatty. One day, she PMs me and asks if I'll read her fic. I obliged, and then gave her my honest review that it was a rather cliche, Mary Sue storyline. She was devestated to hear this, and for months afterwards, she'd be clinging to me for advice, trying to redo her fic but just never getting the idea, denying my constructive criticism and spreading crap about me being bad (fortunately, she only spread this on the forum she went to, Pokemon Elite 2000, which is a pretty sucky place with horrible standards if you look around), asking me for advice that I'm just not good at, and all the while, she couldn't provide me decent criticism for my story. Of course, one day, I got fed up with it all and just blocked her on AIM. Recently, though, her fic ended up winning Fanfic of the Month on Pokecommunity, and she sent me a PM saying that my advice finally sunk in and she understood the error of her ways. I guess that's kinda good, but no way do I think it's worth ever going through that living hell again.

So.... where was I? Right. I'm not gonna complain anymore that I have too many closet readers, I'm not gonna pin the blame on the popular authors (although, their pity displays about being too popular are really starting to piss me off, so stop it), I'm not gonna try winning contests as means of publicity, and there is no way in hell I'm gonna go out and read these underappreciated fics like you keep saying we should. If I want potential reviewers, I'll keep an eye out for them, and ask them to look over my work myself. I recommend other people who want reviews for improvement do the same. Really, you never know if the person reviewing is just leaving a comment because they felt obliged after reading your work. You could have a romance fic, and get a comment from a reader who has no damn clue about how to write romance. No, you gotta take action and find someone who seems to know their stuff in that area, then ask them for criticism. I don't think several of the world's greatest authors or manga-ka alike made most of their stories based off of fanmail (well, besides those ones wh*ring out to the masses, of course), so you shouldn't either.

Elemental Charizam
12th January 2006, 9:17 PM
Threads like this are breeding grounds for hypocrisy. People say things because they sound like what's really PC, but they don't believe in it. And then they don't go out and review unoticed fics and such things that they say they will, because they don't really believe in what they're saying. Speak your mind, even if everybody else thinks what you say is foolish, they should say why, and maybe they'll convince you. Nothing wrong with being wrong once in a while. Or maybe people who advocate all this 'going to review teh unnoticed' are hypocrits simply because they are VERY lazy. There is hypocrisy, because there is little or no rise in the number of people reviewing these kinds of fics. People like Renegade continue doing so, but... *sigh*

Mindripper & Zerodius: You say what you say; it doesn't matter if you delete it or say 'its off record' you still said it, and idiots like me assume you meant it :P

To be honest, I don't think there's anything left to say on this topic; it has been blown out of proportion, interjected into unrelated posts and been argued over in so many topics recently, and nothing has changed. It will always be a problem to some degree, as long as somebody gets more reviews than somebody else. There's room for improvement in the system, but that's true of any system I've ever come across anywhere. Should we try and make things better? Sure, though personally I don't care if people who don't want to don't review the under appreciated authors (like myself ;D ). But these topics have so far only served to breed hostility and reopen old wounds.

There's my opinion, anyway, though sadly I'm not yet stubborn enough that I can be absoloutely positive its the view I shall stick to is this debate drags on much longer. Now I'll leave before I spoil this post by insulting somebody. Considering how many people here have annoyed me, I feel its quite a feat.

Negrek
12th January 2006, 9:19 PM
Seriously, people, just let it be over with. The constant bickering about it is just making it worse. You're proving the banner...

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/932/emo6xd.jpg

...which, by the way, was made by Lord Nidokingu who was awesome and let me use it because I think this issue is just getting ridiculous.

It's not such a big deal. Don't be a bunch of boneheads; get on with your forum life and don't blow trivial things out of proportion.

Kiyohime
12th January 2006, 9:29 PM
XD Awesome image. I know, this whole thing got way out of hand. PMing Dragonfree to close this right now.

mindripper
12th January 2006, 9:29 PM
You say what you say; it doesn't matter if you delete it or say 'its off record' you still said it, and idiots like me assume you meant it

I meant it. I added the last part as a joke, kinda. Well, i speak for myself, and I seriously do not care what you feel about hypocrisy and about the people who have irritated you. Everyone feels the same, just differently directed. Sniping is not going to help anyone, so just cut it out.


There is hypocrisy, because there is little or no rise in the number of people reviewing these kinds of fics.

Of course not! Everyone is here posting on threads like these! I daresay I have reviewed for a fair number of authors myself, and I am fine with that. Just stop pissing over each other. Dammit, Negrek put it pretty well. I'm getting on with my life. It would be better for everyone if more people could do just that.

EDIT: ^Good idea, close this and do not open any more of them. Everyone.

Dragonfree
12th January 2006, 9:30 PM
Meh.

I'm not very loud about subjects like this. Yes, I'm popular. I don't think I particularly deserve it personally, but honestly, if my readers think I'm good, I'm not going to complain. Why would I?

Ultimately, it is a reader's choice whether they like a fic.

People only get popular if they can appeal to the masses. I highly doubt anybody here is doing that on purpose - appealing to the masses far too complex for anybody to be able to grasp the exact technique, and frankly, I have no idea how it works exactly. You definitely need at least some quality, but the fact is, the masses aren't as picky as expert reviewers.

People talk about some authors' works being overhyped, but what is being "overhyped"? Being more popular than it should be, isn't it? But who are you to determine what should be popular and what shouldn't? Obviously, the popular authors have done well what makes popularity - which is, again, appealing to the masses. Whether it's actually 'good' or not is another thing, and perhaps you don't think the fic is good enough to be as popular as it is - but that is not the opinion of the people who make it popular, who are the readers.

What I'm saying is that when it comes right down to it, it's just life, some people are popular, some people aren't, it's luck and a skill people don't even know they're developing, and there is no reason to make a big deal out of any of it.

And since Scrap wants this closed, so be it.