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Kiyohime
14th January 2006, 2:59 AM
No, I am not lying. XD I have never, EVER written an actual, honest-to-god trainer Pokemon battle, and I just got through my first one in Aeon. XP

I have a couple questions.

Firstly, I showed the rough draft of it to Serpent Syra, and he's informed me that it's a requirement for commands to be shouted out every few minutes during the battle, which surprised me at first. When my battle began (it's a double battle) my trainer character, Linali, shouts out the strategy she wants her Furret and Kakuna to do. I call this "phase one." The challenge was for Linali to defeat a wild Onix with only a single blow. So phase one is basically Linali instructing Kakuna to continually use Harden while her Furret, Ratatosk, distracts the Onix with a Follow Me/Taunt combo and evading all of the Onix's attacks to enrage it and wear it out.

They then proceed to do it, while Linali stands by and watches until she signals them to move to phase two. By this time, Kakuna is practically an armored shell with over 30 layers of Hardens. This is when Ratatosk retreats....and the real funny part starts.

Linali tells Ratatosk to use Slam on Kakuna. This draws a "OMFG ARE YOU SERIOUS YOU CRAZY MOFO!" reaction from Kakuna and a excited Ratatosk wanting to try a Super Smash-esque attack "just like his favorite game, Super Smash Brothers Melee!"

The math: Kakuna + over 30 Hardens + Slam = projectile bullet flying Kakuna thing which slams into the exhausted, worn-out Onix's forehead, resulting in an INSTANT KO....for both Kakuna and Onix. XD

I've edited it so the commands were more spread out during the battle, even though I didn't ACTUALLY think it was neccessary. Is it REALLY a requirement to have a trainer shrieking out commands every three minutes? I'm just worried it'll bugger up the original flow I had for the battle. XP

Secondly, was this tactic too cheap and corny and illogical, having a "Armored Shell" Kakuna knock out the Onix in a single blow? This really is the first official battle I've written, and I don't wish to screw it up by having a "Eevee Knocks Out Nidoking with a Tackle" stereotype thing.

Ryano Ra
14th January 2006, 3:12 AM
@_@

You just really twisted my words around. *gets metal bat ready*

I didn't say every few minutes, I didn't say every single move, I said it is a requirement to have commands shouted in the battle. That could be once, twice, every turn, or even when they aren't even battling. Scrap, you first need to read stories that have battles in them to get a true answer, but I really don't want people to be attacking me because I said this. I mean, if you think about it logically, it depends on the character and his/her connection to his/her Pokemon. Typically, trainers are shouting their commands to be intensified and serious about the entire situation, for trainers and Pokemon are suppose to act as one.

Characters DONT need to be screaming, but their must be some sort of passion in their voices when they are commanding. Having them be bland and cheap and pathetic and monotonous wouldn't EVEN be considered a battle, in my eyes. Pokemon are tense, trainers are tense. They want to win, am I not correct? Would you just say, "Altaria, use Dragonbreath." so plainly? And for strategies, they can change in a battle. Things rarely go 'according to plan'. I mean, she's developed a strategy, and basically, you are allowing it to succeed, right? How so is that the Onix isn't prepared for the strategy? Anything can happen in a battle, even if it is some 'challenge to be knocked out in a single blow' because the other Pokemon are unpredictable. You follow with strategies, and they are meant to be broken, my friend. That's apart of a battle. Think on your feet and mind, don't automatically make some uber plan AND say it like it is something simple. Let the Pokemon know that you are serious and that it needs to be done. Unless the person always acts that way, then there's something entirely different.

And as for that plan with Kakuna and Onix, it is rather shocking, but nevertheless something you wouldn't possibly never see again.

Kiyohime
14th January 2006, 3:18 AM
I didn't twist your words around, I'm using mine own. o.o;; What gave you the idea I was twisting words around? --;; The only part I used was the requirement part. I'm still uncertain about that.

You bring up logical, excellent points, however, and have officially owned me so I bow before you and beg forgiveness lest you beat me to a bloody pulp with the bat. D:

EDIT: ONE THING I FORGOT! The Pokemon in Aeon have something called....a BRAIN. XD As you've read, they modify their actions based on what the foe's doing, they sometimes make decisions themselves, but I guess it'd make more sense if they were somewhat more in sync with the trainer. XP CURSE THE POKEBOT SYNDROME.

Ryano Ra
14th January 2006, 3:30 AM
Sorry, I'm irritable for some strange reason right now. ;_; *beats himself up and lays upon railroad tracks*

It DID seem as though you were 'twisting' my words around, but again, I must say that I am sorry - I am irritable right now. But really, I feel as though it is a requirement, but it is good to get other opinions. But Scrap, when writing the battles, you really have to think about the characters and his/her everyday moods. Is she gloomy? Is he happy? Is she ecstatic? Is he malignant? The majority of the trainers are usually excited when battling, but there ARE few that can command their Pokemon so calmly and smoothly (like Pokemon Coordinators) so really, now I'm considering of dropping my original opinion and making a new one. ^^ I think I need to eat something - I want to type in capitals and yell now.

Bu†cH
14th January 2006, 3:31 AM
How about Kakuna uses String Shot or Poison Sting on the Onix, so he is either blind or sick and the Furret can use Dynamicpunch, Iron Tail, Focus Punch, Brick Break, Rock Smash, or any other move that can cause some wicked damage to an Onix.

The proof is in the pudding, whatever that means.
http://www.psypokes.com/dex/pokedex.php?id=162&view=tmhm
-------------------
Forgive me if you don't like it.

Kiyohime
14th January 2006, 3:32 AM
We're both IRATE! *lies down on train tracks next to Syra* 8D WHEE.

Linali? She's a little over three centuries old (gotta double-check that) so it's hard to faze her anymore, but she is trying to avoid having flying shrapnel reduce her face to a bloody pulp so she's a little distracted and anxious, I imagine. Plus, that Onix is very loud, very violent, very angry. o.o;;

EDIT: Yar, Butch, Furret does learn those more effective attacks but I thought this might be more original, and in a weird way....it'd make more sense to me. But I have a twisted logic. D:

Ash_Junior
14th January 2006, 3:34 AM
....

that's a sweet strategy.

it'd be hard to pull off, but if it worked...

*shakes head*

nice.

personally, I don't do battles that much. I say in the narrative that they're happening, then jump away from the action, or start describing something else, then come back to it afterwards.

or the narrative starts at the end, or ends at the start of the battle.

I used to do battles all the time...

but I agree with you, Scrap, that strategies (a la phase 1) would be used.

you don't hear orders in war movies to "Fire Rifle! Fire missile!" each individual time each one is needed. They give a general order, and the corresponding troops follow those orders, changing things up a bit if needed...

meh...

my two creds.

EDIT:

Syra, in regards to the "excited" thing, I'd say, yes, that most trainers wouldn't be able to be calm, but the veterans would probably be able to just stand by, watch, and coolly, detachedly, give orders in a perfectly calm voice.

all depends on the person.

Saffire Persian
14th January 2006, 4:01 AM
Scrap, you have literally dumbfounded me.

XDXDXDXDXDXDXDXD

No offense, but it amazes me you haven't.

What Syra said is quite true, and giving commands is a required aspect of battle, and strategy can be slipped into the commands, too. Although, if the Trainer is totally commanding the battle, I'd keep in mind that she is battling an opponent, and so, one would probably want to make his or her orders quickly... after all, any edge you have is an edge against an opponent.

XD As in, long drawn out strategy lines probably wouldn't work.

Honestly, I say you should just try it on your own. o.o I'm quite sure you'll put on an amazing flair to it. ^^

Joshua - Shadow Brigadier
14th January 2006, 4:01 AM
Personally, about issuing orders. It all depends on the bond between trainer and Pokemon.

If they have a strong bond, the trainer can easily step back and let the Pokemon deal with things the way they know how, occasionally interjecting. Though if you do that, there is the chance of the Pokemon being caught off guard by the trainer's sudden outburst.

As for your battle strategy, I say it looks sweet as, and I can't wait to read the fleshed out version.

Joshua

Ryano Ra
14th January 2006, 4:23 AM
We're both IRATE! *lies down on train tracks next to Syra* 8D WHEE.

Linali? She's a little over three centuries old (gotta double-check that) so it's hard to faze her anymore, but she is trying to avoid having flying shrapnel reduce her face to a bloody pulp so she's a little distracted and anxious, I imagine. Plus, that Onix is very loud, very violent, very angry. o.o;;

EDIT: Yar, Butch, Furret does learn those more effective attacks but I thought this might be more original, and in a weird way....it'd make more sense to me. But I have a twisted logic. D:*puts red axe over his heart and hears the train coming* I've eaten food, so I'm now happy. 8D

But yes, as others said, it depends on the person. If she's a bit anxious and distracted, I think I could see her somewhat yelling the attacks. But, personality does play a really big role in this, so it really depends on the character herself.

Kiyohime
14th January 2006, 4:26 AM
Yes, but I'm also taking into account that the Onix is wild, and partially controlled by the Follow Me/Taunt, and this Onix is rather dim. XP

But I shall use the shouted commands. I thank thee all for your help. *bows*

Negrek
14th January 2006, 4:48 AM
Shouting commands isn't a requirement. Trainers don't need to command their pokemon at all; for some of the battles in my trainerfic, it's a requirement that trainers not order their pokemon in any way--supposedly, they're supposed to be training them well enough that they don't need a human to tell them what to do in battle and can formulate their own strategies. Sort of like the Battle Palace. In addition, there are some situations where a trainer can't command their pokemon much. Controlling five pokemon in a five on five melee battle is too much for one trainer to handle if they're trying to give their pokemon consistent orders (I write too many battles.)

However, I'm afraid to say that I don't think that the kakuna strategy would work at all, for a number of reasons. First, it's not really the hardness of the kakuna that makes a difference to whether or not the kakuna would deal any damage. Consider a blade of grass. Normally, it's relatively harmless, but with a tornado behind it, it can pierce the shell of a turtle and kill it. Then consider a diamond, the hardest natural substance that we know of. If you chuck a diamond at an onix, it will bounce off and do nothing.

Canonically, onix have almost diamond-hard bodies--that's me not looking at a pokedex, but I seem to recall that. If you fire a bullet at their head at fairly close range, it will probably not go in far enough to cause serious damage unless it hit the eye or something. I'm willing to bet you'd need something like an armor-piercing round before you could get any serious damage, or a tankbuster or something. Having your furret throw the kakuna (or slam it? I didn't quite understand that part) into the onix's forehead will still not do terribly much damage, and certainly not enough to kill it. How tired the onix is might change its overall battle endurance, but should not affect its susceptibility to purely physical injury.

Kiyohime
14th January 2006, 4:53 AM
Ooooh....good point. @_@ D'oh. May have to rethink that.

I was intending for the Furret to use the actual attack, Slam, on the Kakuna. Slam is a powerful full-on blow with the body, but from the way you tell it, I may have to use some sort of cannon to fire the Kakuna, which in itself is nuts. XD I thank you greatly for pointing that out, you've caused me to seriously rethink some things. @_@ Do you think there's any sort of attack a Furret might use, other than Slam, that might launch the Kakuna with enough power?

I'm also trying to factor in how the Onix is exhausted, hindered by ice and mud (forgot to mention that; the battle ground is utterly sodden in mud and ice and snow as it's the winter season.)

Negrek
14th January 2006, 5:03 AM
I would have suggested extremespeed, but then I found out that furret can't actually learn it. That was iffy; you might get away with quick attack, but meh.

If you were to have furret taunt the onix, it could probably cause the beast to become deeply mired in the mud and unable to reach it. It could then use assist to use kakuna's hardens and, once hardened up, unleash a double-edge of its own on the onix for a one-hit knockout; this would eliminate the problem of using the kakuna altogether; as double-edge is an extremely powerful technique already and one that would logically be more effective for more dense users. As a downside, it would make the battle longer and more complicated, as well as incur damage to furret.

You might be able to get away with launching kakuna from double-edge, but I don't know how that would work, based on most logical descriptions of the move, and again, it would harm kakuna a lot in the bargain.

xXSaberXx
14th January 2006, 5:05 AM
D: Shoutin sucks. But use it if you have to, like over the sound of a thrasing Onix, or when the human is excited.

You don't have to caps THE WHOLE thing, maybe like a word.

I usually caps the last word if it needs emphazsis, like

"Kakuna, String SHOT!"

OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES.

Battles are battles. I find them hard to write as well. Don't forget to describe attacks, and most of all, the EFFECT of the ATTACK on the opponent. It is not so much the FORCE of the effect, but the REACTION on which the effect is implied. :3 Learned that from a action comic learning how to draw thing.

ROFL.

Ner de der. Most of all though, IMAGINE it. Then it should be relativly easy. Think of how animals fight. Though, with commands. O.o

HOPED I HELPED.

Kiyohime
14th January 2006, 5:34 AM
Well, even with Slam, BOTH Onix AND Kakuna would have been KOed anyway, so I see no problem with Furret using Double Edge rather than Slam. This way, it's not as godly or Mary-Stuish because Linali knows she is forcing her Pokemon to hurt themselves all for the sake of knocking the Onix out. The idea of the Onix also getting mired in mud is excellent also, and now I'm in your debt. If there's any way I can repay you for all the input...well, I owe you a tremendous thank-you. XD

Saber, I'm having fun...like this. XD
“Ratatosk, for Chrissakes, jump!" Linali leapt to the side, avoiding a spinning hunk of shrapnel that would have happily rendered her face to a bloody red pulp had she not dodged it in time.

Dilasc
14th January 2006, 5:47 AM
So your character is basically Rinali with an L, at least by name, if I'm not mistaken. Hmm, as for battles, you need to consider a few factors.

Why would you command a furret to slam a Kakuna when it would probably be smarter for the fuzz-nudnik to lift it up and toss it like a rock. Certainly a throw has less of a chance of hurting the racoon in question, and has far more accuracy if you guide it with arms. Rather than slam, why not Siesmic Toss it at the Onix instead?

Sure, your bound to kill the fragile cacoon inside the shell either way (the pressure is like that of being smacked against a brick wall, which is what an Onix supposedly is, and even if the shell is safe, the creature inside of it is no doubt still able to feel pain, but its more likely to cause damage.

Certainly, your intention was not to squish the Kakuna, was it, but according to physics that's what would happen, since basically, a Kakuna is just a more vulnerable weedle hiding a thick shell.

In the Pokemon world, we can get away with breaking the laws of Physics from time to time, but there's just a point at which some victories border on Marianna Suzanna the Fifth's style of battling. I'm not saying you're making a Mary Sue, but in battle, its important to be creative... and to do so carefully.

Personally, I find Pokemon battles to be rather easy. Heck, they don't need to be fast paced, and personally, I even manage to have the Pokemon talk to each other. (EGADS! They's talking to the enemy! ZOMG!)

Another thing to remember in battle (this one is important, so remember this one well) is that Pokemon can EASILY turn into Pokebots if you goof up. No, I'm serious here, since I used to have this problem myself. I recommend that you show your Pokemon's personalities while still in battle, or they'll all just wind up as robots in the end, and no matter how epic the battle is, it is still just a game of war robots, and Pokemon are not machines, as we writers are well aware.

Kiyohime
14th January 2006, 5:54 AM
Ah....then allow me to quote this section from the battle. ;D


“Ratatosk, don’t let those rocks hit you! Do your old shtick—the thing about the weeping earth, or however it went!” Linali rapped out, covering her ears to prevent being deafened by the crashing of falling stone and the roaring of the Onix.

The ground shook with decibel-shattering, explosive impacts. Boulders fell and crashed everywhere as the agile Furret weaved, ducked, and leapt to evade his foe’s Rock Throws, ending the sequence with a mighty somersault, landing hard on all fours and sliding sideways on the slippery mud and ice. He screeched to a halt and lifted himself up on his hind legs, puffing his chest out and flexing his front paws.

Yerrahooo! Ah’m Ratatosk Thunderpaw the Mighty! I make the earth shake and the skies weep! Bah! You call those Rock Throws? Mah ole grandma could throw better n’ than that—heck, even a Wurmple could do better n’ that! Haw haw haw! Ratatosk crowed, waggling his glowing tail impudently.

The Taunt had its intended effect, and the Onix roared, his brains nearly boiling with rage. EAT THIS—ROCK SLIDE!

“Ratatosk, for Chrissakes, jump!” Linali leapt to the side, avoiding a spinning hunk of shrapnel that would have happily rendered her face to a bloody red pulp had she not dodged it in time.

A veritable hailstorm of boulders thundered down, hissing and spinning through the air with deadly force. Ratatosk disappeared into a blur of motion, and by the time the onlookers’ eyes could track him again, he had already launched himself into the sky. The Furret landed on a boulder and pushed off again, sending it spinning off into another direction. Boulders flew everywhere astray as the Furret continued leaping from stone to stone midair.

Say hello to Newton’s laws, pebble-brain!

Ratatosk landed on the Onix’s head and latched himself there, clinging tightly with all four of his paws wrapped around the raised blade of stone that jutted out of the larger Pokemon’s skull. His tail waved around in front of the boulder python’s eyes, the Follow Me orb still glowing on it. The Onix howled and thrashed about violently, his tail crashing up and down upon the ground and shattering patches of ice. However, his cries had noticeably become more faint, his movements slower and weaker. Linali’s sharp eye took note of this.

By this point, Vespa was swaddled up in about thirty-plus layers of Hardens, nearly unrecognizable. Layer upon layer of hardened film had created a solid, inches-thick armor that could easily withstood anything short of a nuclear blast.

Which was precisely what Linali had been waiting for.

“Rataosk, let go of the Onix now!”

“FurrrrrEEEEEEET EEEEE!” WHAT? But I’m having fun! Ratatosk squalled as he was violently jerked back and forth high in the air, attached by only his front paws.

“Ratatosk…” Linali’s voice became a quiet, dangerous rumble. The Furret abruptly let go and went sailing backwards through the air, cheerfully twiddling a paw at the Onix. Cheerio, m’ dear!

I don't think you need to worry about Pokebots there, Dilasc. ^^;

As for the Kakuna, I had imagined with over 30+ layers of Hardens, it'd be like a small metallic boulder, as when it performs Harden, it turns grey, so I described the Harden attack as this:


Vespa remained stone still, but her skin had begun to gleam wetly. A thin film of liquid began to seep through her pores, glazing every inch of yellow chitin and turning a dull silvery color as it hardened into a solid layer. No sooner than when that process had finished, a second layer of wet film had begun to seep out.

I had thought that if the liquid layers created a mesh of iron-solid layers, the Kakuna's mass might be similar to a stone, and therefore function as such?

Also, I'm taking in consideration how a Furret has quite stubby paws, so it seems as though it'd pack more power in a full-body tackle, if that makes sense? @_@

Dilasc
14th January 2006, 5:56 AM
When I said grab it and hurl it, I meant for it to wrap its large tail around it and use that instead of its stubby arms.

Kiyohime
14th January 2006, 5:59 AM
OOOH! Doh. I AM STOOPID *huddles in corner*

A Seismic Toss's good, but I generally still see a charging attack such as Double Edge or Slam as being far more powerful, as I'm basing it on how a kick is generally more powerful than a throw. A Double Edge or Slam could in itself, be like a kick-- you could generally still aim, and I imagine that an Onix's large head is hard to miss.

CHeSHiRe-CaT
14th January 2006, 9:23 AM
'Tis the Pokémon incarnation of Bonsai Bill 8D

I don't think you'll have to worry too much about battle scenes, Scrap. I thought your idea was rather clever, because usually in a battle scene, I don't do complicated things such as that. It's usually "zomg liek, attack that poochyena afore it kills Prof. Birch hee hee ha ho" with most people, but when looking from the perspective of the Animé, you can see that they implement strategies to overcome an obstacle or Pokémon by thinking out of the box of battle techniques from the games, whereas you have to take turns in battle with a foe, hitting each other one blow after the other. Too robotic. The bullet idea kinda got me thinking about physics as well, but in the Pokémon world, Team Rocket can blast off about a thousand lightyears into the horizon @_@ If they can blast off, why can't Pokémon?

Rani Fernleaf
18th January 2006, 4:36 AM
Interesting.

From my point of view, the summary of the battle - well, y'see, the Furret distracts the Onix while the Kakuna turns itself into a cannonball! - sounds distinctly corny. Hello, Mary-Sue? But judging from the excerpt you gave us - which also gives me an absolute certainty that you're not using PokeBots - you've pulled it off quite well.

On the throw/Double-Edge point, I think that it wouldn't really matter - okay, barrelling into a rock to chuck it at a rock doesn't give a lot of aim. But the point is to knock out the rock, so power matters over aim, as long as it hits in the general cranial area. Rocks don't usually shatter when they hit another rock, do they? But since it IS a Pokemon in there, it COULD work. Maybe.

And Ratatosk - can you say 'hare from northern Redwall?' Love him.

Kiyohime
18th January 2006, 5:35 AM
I know, it;s really Mary-Sue-ish. However, I;ve just thought of this...suppose everyone THINKS the Onix has been knocked out (when it's simply playing dead). So Linali wins her bet, and gets in her car with her prize (in this case, three silver coins) and takes off....AND then the Onix chases the car and wins the battle after all (after destroying the car and everything in it. XD) The important thing was so Linali could get those three coins, so after it, everything doesn't matter.

Does that sound a lot more fair?

Rani Fernleaf
19th January 2006, 4:47 AM
And then there's 27 left, huh?

But back on subject, sure. And funny, too, as an added bonus. XD

Kiyohime
19th January 2006, 5:27 AM
Excellent. XD It works really well, because it does a good job of ending the chapter with a bang. ^^;

BenJS
19th January 2006, 4:13 PM
You know, I have a hard time getting around the furret's name, for some reason I drop the second 'at' - it's easier than trying to say it right. Also, from what I remember from the in-game attack descriptions, a slam attack is using a tail, vine or arm to slam the opponant; a full-body tackle is more like a tackle, take-down or double-edge attack.

From what those excerpts I'd say you've more than got the gist of this battle scene, anf it's good to write it out briefly before fleshing it out as it allows you to change bits and pieces - like you seem to have now - instead of writing out this whole complex scene and having to start over almost from scratch.

Ryano Ra
19th January 2006, 8:04 PM
Scrap, I like that new ideas, with the bet and Onix winning after all. I think you should definitely go for that approach. ^_^

indigestible_wad
20th January 2006, 1:03 AM
I don't believe that you have to say what the trainers are saying, you can just say what's going on in the pokemon's head. For example, this was an attempt at trying to just do what was going on in a pokemon's head during the battle. I don't think I did that great at it, but I tried. Besides, I think you could probably do better at it than I.
http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?p=2336915#post2336915

Of course now that I think about it you could just do something completely off the wall like that shuffle thing you pulled in Sin. You could try something like what a movie does and strategize before fighting. I mean, like before people go into battle they do something, and hen they show each move's outcome in the battle one second later, then it switches back to the strategizing, and then to the future battle, then back, and forth, and back and forth and back and forth...

Just an idea for how to write it. Not how to do it, just writing ideas.