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Infinity
21st January 2006, 4:02 AM
Evanji Axu had this idea first so give credit to her if anything. I've been asking around and other Serebii members tend to agree. Wouldn't it be nice for artists to have a little café sub-forum for the general discussion and questions of art in general including spriting and comic techniques.

The realm of art is so deep. With the advent of digital art, art has basically unlimited boundaries for the imagination. Many people are trying to become well established comic authors too, I think it would be to their benefit that they could freely ask any questions and improve. It could also help newbie artists like myself to learn how to master techniques such as blurring, smudging, and airbrushing.

Another thing it could help is to enhance the overall community of Serebii artists. To pick up a new friend and to help each other become respected artists in their own respects.

If not at the moment, how much support do we need here for it? I am pretty confident that we could attain such support for whatever your expectations are.

Thank you for your time.

Blues
21st January 2006, 5:22 AM
Sounds like a good idea, an artist's cafe would help new artists when they need help.

Ilex
21st January 2006, 5:46 AM
I have been thinking about this for a long time now. It would include polls also. This could inspire people into doing fan art and it would help people become better artists. But "Artist cafe" sounds wrong... maybe "Fan Art Discussions" or something. Thumbs up on this idea.

*Waits for the 'Omg no mroe fan spam froums!!!" comments*

Guitar dude bill
21st January 2006, 8:49 AM
It's a good idea which I've been thinking about for a long time. But you can however, discuss it in the main forum. But I think it's a good idea.

Infinity
21st January 2006, 10:06 AM
It's a good idea which I've been thinking about for a long time. But you can however, discuss it in the main forum. But I think it's a good idea.
'Tis only fair, besides, it'd help break the ice for people and perchance more people would get feedback on whatever they do.

RaZoR LeAf
21st January 2006, 12:56 PM
The main concern is that the Sprite and Comics forums are already so full of spam, people replying with rubbish and posts that aren't useful, that a cafe thread would just be a spam pit.

Joe Vega #4
21st January 2006, 3:45 PM
Lemme see... we have a Fan Art Forum, and three sub-forums, referred to as Fan Art Requests, Fan Sprites, & Fan Comics. I'd say we already have enough sub-forums for Fan Art. I'd give just the same reply to the Comic Café idea from blueguy. I'd stick to... well, a Sticky in the Main Forum. It'd fit there, as far as I'm concerned.

Ilex
21st January 2006, 6:18 PM
The main concern is that the Sprite and Comics forums are already so full of spam, people replying with rubbish and posts that aren't useful, that a cafe thread would just be a spam pit.

Yes, a cafe thread would be a spam pit(Example (http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=103594)), but a sub-forum wouldn't, as it would be more organized. There would be threads on giving tips and opinions, here are some examples that I pulled out of my head:

Tips on keeping a sprite thread from dying
Helpful tips on Oekaki drawing
Black outlines or all-colour?
Which form of art are you best in?


Lemme see... we have a Fan Art Forum, and three sub-forums, referred to as Fan Art Requests, Fan Sprites, & Fan Comics. I'd say we already have enough sub-forums for Fan Art. I'd give just the same reply to the Comic Café idea from blueguy. I'd stick to... well, a Sticky in the Main Forum. It'd fit there, as far as I'm concerned.

Having alot of sub-forums isn't an issue. It just proves how popular and active the forum is. A sticky in the main forum would be far too unorganized to hold all the topics that would be going on (Not to mention the spam).

Bulk
21st January 2006, 6:36 PM
I like this idea. It'd be nice just chat about art and such without having to make a certain thread/contest which you then have to keep checking on daily ect. This would be a nice addition to the forums.

Infinity
21st January 2006, 8:37 PM
In any forum on here you're going to get SPAM. Like Ilex said it'd help unclutter all of that. The Fan Art forum isn't a discussion fourm and with that fact things do get ugly from time to time.

Let's say someone was going to start up a comic with a certain theme, cast, etc. and they wanted some quick feedback and ideas with what they should or shouldn't do. If you were to ask that in the Misc. Discussion on Serebii it would seem out of place and in the Fan Comic sub-forum, you can't make a thread unless it is a comic.

Whatever support is needed to get a sub-forum, this will get it.

~Iron-Vaati~
22nd January 2006, 2:50 AM
So, sorta like the spriter's lounge at PC?

Sounds coo' to me.

Beaniebabie
22nd January 2006, 4:12 AM
Yea, a great idea! especially for those who want ideas for their art or want comments

Mastercougar
22nd January 2006, 4:21 AM
I've been saying this for a long time. Fan Art, especially Fan Comics, has become as much of a community as has Fanfiction, and as such it really needs to have its own discussion forum.

Infinity
22nd January 2006, 4:47 AM
So, sorta like the spriter's lounge at PC?

Sounds coo' to me.
Yes, but it could cover the entire range of the Fan Art forum here. It's quite obvious that we want it, what say you, Serebii?

Solid Kirby
27th January 2006, 6:08 AM
I agree with this completely. An Artist's Café would be a great idea. It could also serve as a preveiw forum, where you could showcase outlines of your next piece. You can use it to ask for people's opinions on what you should do next in your comic, and all of that good stuff. Like the Author's Cafe.

...It's a shame that staff bias perfers Typing down a story that tells someone about a character over an actual drawing of a character. D=

>_> <_<

FORE!

*bumps the thread*

Shining Mew
28th January 2006, 4:14 PM
http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=103719
http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=96179


Am I the only one getting the feeling art-related cafes WONT happen?

Theyd just be spam holes.. regardless of organization or whatever. Fan art forums are already spamtastic, lets not promote it please. I can only imagine all of the threads like "zomgz how do i make a trainer card?"

I dont think its worth it.

Infinity
28th January 2006, 10:30 PM
A forum is not a cause of SPAM, the people who SPAM are the cause. From what I see on SPPf they are dealt with accordingly.

What about those who act as a community? There are some bad apples in the group, but will it ruin an entire forum?

More or less you will get SPAM wherever you go in these forums, I don't think it would be as much of a problem if people decided to read the rules and stickies.

Look at all of the competent people on the Fan Art forums... To deny us something because of what a couple people do is wrong.

If the Fan Fiction forum can get this through popular support, so will we.

Look at the Author's Caf&#233;, I don't see it to be that spammy, I see it to be a functioning sub-forum. The Fan Art forum is more than double the size of the Fan Fiction Forum and I am sure we could eventually pull more than double the support.

PLANES CURE TOWERS
28th January 2006, 10:35 PM
A forum is not a cause of SPAM, the people who SPAM are the cause. From what I see on SPPf they are dealt with accordingly.
That is what the point is not. The point is, the cafe's will become a spam fest, resulting in more work for an already stretched span of moderators.


What about those who act as a community? There are some bad apples in the group, but will it ruin an entire forum?
In short, Yes.


More or less you will get SPAM wherever you go in these forums, I don't think it would be as much of a problem if people decided to read the rules and stickies.
Yet they do not, and will not. Great, your point is null then.


Look at all of the competent people on the Fan Art forums... To deny us something because of what a couple people do is wrong.
I want a gun, a couple of people use guns in a manner that is unethical, as a result, I cannot have a gun. Logic is fun.


If the Fan Fiction forum can get this through popular support, so will we.
Orly?


Look at the Author's Caf&#233;, I don't see it to be that spammy, I see it to be a functioning sub-forum. The Fan Art forum is more than double the size of the Fan Fiction Forum and I am sure we could eventually pull more than double the support.
That is becuase the fan fiction forum, for the most part, is full of people who are adept writers, and can discuss how to get better. In all honesty, what will be discussed in the fan art forum? Give me ten (that seems like a high number, however it is low when you think about what a forum needs to thrive) examples of what you can discuss in a fan art cafe forum that cannot be discussed in a thread made by an artist already. I take it you'll want to talk about techniques so that you can improve, yet you do this anyway in the threads where you post your art. All in all, there is no poing in having a forum for something that is discussed already in threads elsewhere.

So as you can see, in my opinion, no.

-Josh

Beaniebabie
29th January 2006, 8:05 AM
Well, why dont you guyz put this forward to serebii or one of the moderators? Im sure they wouold figure something out....

Infinity
29th January 2006, 9:09 AM
Give me some time on the rebuttal Josh, you're making me think...

I am sure Serebii and the moderating team have seen things supporting this. All we need to now do is wait...

Mastercougar
31st January 2006, 5:41 AM
Adept writers? I'll give you adept.....

Wisest Pikachu, Snagger Outlaw, Gundam Remake, Blueguy, Davis, Sponge, Blueray, Infinity, Devil G, Woofer, Blues, Goatman, Sindakwil, Neopolis, Oblivion, Controller of Flames, Tenshi, Flaming Ruby, SecretMew....And that's just the Fancomics forum.

The thing is, you mods are really overlooking the mature Fancomics people. Sure we have some spam, but ya know the thing about all those spam threads? I've noticed they all sink to the bottom in rapid course.

"ZOMG how do I make a trainer card?" We have that already, and a new subforum won't make more of it.


All in all, there is no poing in having a forum for something that is discussed already in threads elsewhere.

Then what's the point of the Author's Cafe, hmmm? Explain why threads there are not redundant. I assure you those same contentions can apply to us.

Blues
31st January 2006, 6:50 AM
That is becuase the fan fiction forum, for the most part, is full of people who are adept writers, and can discuss how to get better. In all honesty, what will be discussed in the fan art forum? Give me ten (that seems like a high number, however it is low when you think about what a forum needs to thrive) examples of what you can discuss in a fan art cafe forum that cannot be discussed in a thread made by an artist already. I take it you'll want to talk about techniques so that you can improve, yet you do this anyway in the threads where you post your art. All in all, there is no poing in having a forum for something that is discussed already in threads elsewhere.

So as you can see, in my opinion, no.

-Josh

Oh, so you're saying artists have nothing to discuss? I didn't realize we just get a piece of paper and start drawing. A cafe for artists would be just as usefull (or useless, as some think)as the Authors' Cafe.

You say we do the exact same thing in the threads we make? Then, why is there an Authors' Cafe? Writing a good fanfic is just as hard as drawing a good picture. If anything, it's harder, because you can't edit your work as easily as editing a couple words is.

I'll give you ten reasons if you give me ten reasons why the Authors' Cafe is needed, and Artists' isn't...

Beaniebabie
31st January 2006, 9:16 AM
Yea exactly i think all the artists on the forums should have a right to a caf'e to talk abou their art, just as every writer has a right to discuss their writing in their caf'e. I think we should put this through to the moderators and/or especially serebii......

Infinity
31st January 2006, 9:18 AM
We're artists, we do have an ability to be just as creative as writers.

Ya rly!

10 reasons:
1. Discuss the construction of art (advanced techniques, obtaining brushes, Photoshop vs. GIMP, etc.). That could be split up into a few reasons, but I'll leave it at one.
2. Discuss the scripting of comics, what to use, what not to use and why.
3. Bond the artist community on SPPf. We can get massive support for this. If we need to do further campaigning for this forum, we'll get people to join us.
4. Cut down on SPAM. I actually think this could help cut down on the SPAM, as fans of various works would be able to discuss them in full with the creators, since the Fan Art forum is not a discussion forum it really isn't allowed.
5. No artist left behind. I've been holding on to this policy for some time now and I believe with the bonding of members that critique on neglected, quality pieces of work would get some of the attention that they deserve.
6. More positive member activity. How long did it take before we realized we needed a comic Academy? We only started holding comic contests in December. If we were more united as a community I am sure we could come up with more nifty things to help out the newer artists/enthusiasts.
7. Quick resolution of issues. If there is a pending issue we can quickly address it. Addressing those particular issues elsewhere on this forum wouldn't draw as much attention. As some people just reside in the Fan Art forum here. Many art wars could possibly have been averted if we had rapidly exchanged that information instead of it being in scattered threads.
8. Again with the extended reach of resources within a community we would probably see better comics, sprites, even original pieces of art.
9. The Fan Art forum is bigger than the Fan Fiction forum. The probability of active members contributing to it is pretty high.
10. Overall I think a sub-forum like this could draw in even more members. I have noticed a lot of views go off to works of art in the main Fan Art forum, but few comments and there are always users browsing that part of the forum. My hypothesis is, it could possibly help break the ice for some people and help actively engage them in the Artist's Caf&#233;.

PLANES CURE TOWERS
31st January 2006, 11:56 AM
I'll give you ten reasons if you give me ten reasons why the Authors' Cafe is needed, and Artists' isn't...
I don't think either is needed, I just see why there is an authors cafe. Stories are far more complex than art, and aside from that, there are various things a story has that can be discussed seperatley, why do you think some books have whole forums dedicated to them? An example of course, being Harry Potter.

Argue that pieces of art also have forums dedicated to them, and I'll simply say, look at the comparisons in activity.


1. Discuss the construction of art (advanced techniques, obtaining brushes, Photoshop vs. GIMP, etc.). That could be split up into a few reasons, but I'll leave it at one.
I'll give you that one.


2. Discuss the scripting of comics, what to use, what not to use and why.
The stickies in the comic forum are adequate for that.


3. Bond the artist community on SPPf. We can get massive support for this. If we need to do further campaigning for this forum, we'll get people to join us.
Go on then.


4. Cut down on SPAM. I actually think this could help cut down on the SPAM, as fans of various works would be able to discuss them in full with the creators, since the Fan Art forum is not a discussion forum it really isn't allowed.
You have more chance of allowing discussion than you have of a whole new forum, you know.


5. No artist left behind. I've been holding on to this policy for some time now and I believe with the bonding of members that critique on neglected, quality pieces of work would get some of the attention that they deserve.
No. People prefer popular stuff, it doesn't matter what other factors roleplay into this. Look at newgrounds, you want to make a collab, unless you are popular, people say no. Unless you are popular, you'll have much less reviews than those up top. Noble policy, but people don't agree.


6. More positive member activity. How long did it take before we realized we needed a comic Academy? We only started holding comic contests in December. If we were more united as a community I am sure we could come up with more nifty things to help out the newer artists/enthusiasts.
Contests aren't really anything spectacular, you know. >>; And the prizes are hardly adequate for the judging. What "nifty things" might you add?


7. Quick resolution of issues. If there is a pending issue we can quickly address it. Addressing those particular issues elsewhere on this forum wouldn't draw as much attention. As some people just reside in the Fan Art forum here. Many art wars could possibly have been averted if we had rapidly exchanged that information instead of it being in scattered threads.
There is still no need for spam.


8. Again with the extended reach of resources within a community we would probably see better comics, sprites, even original pieces of art.
That's a statement with a burden of proof upon it if I ever saw one.


9. The Fan Art forum is bigger than the Fan Fiction forum. The probability of active members contributing to it is pretty high.
More active with 90% of it being idiots. That works.


10. Overall I think a sub-forum like this could draw in even more members. I have noticed a lot of views go off to works of art in the main Fan Art forum, but few comments and there are always users browsing that part of the forum. My hypothesis is, it could possibly help break the ice for some people and help actively engage them in the Artist's Caf&#233;.
Yet due to the amount of spam the art forum currently sits within, this is going to remain somewhat of a 'dream'. That is what it boils down to.



The thing is, you mods are really overlooking the mature Fancomics people. Sure we have some spam, but ya know the thing about all those spam threads? I've noticed they all sink to the bottom in rapid course

lets see your list;

Wisest Pikachu, Snagger Outlaw, Gundam Remake, Blueguy, Davis, Sponge, Blueray, Infinity, Devil G, Woofer, Blues, Goatman, Sindakwil, Neopolis, Oblivion, Controller of Flames, Tenshi, Flaming Ruby, SecretMew....And that's just the Fancomics forum.

I, as well as a lot of other people, haven't even heard of most of these guys, the ones I have being for less than noble reasons. The fact of the matter is, becuase fan art is full of spam, it is overlooked you have good members contributing too. It is unfortunate that for everyone on that list, there are 3 morons, the proof is in the "users browsing this forum" feature.

To be honest with you, there is no point in arguing with me about it, as you can see my opinion is that the idea is redundant. If you want an arguement, you should go play with the head-honcho-ebii. He's the one that'll make a difference, of course, he's also more arrogant than I am and will probably have the same reasoning as I have.

And why did I know I'd entice some backlash from this? Because a lot of the people on that list are just as bad as the spammers.

Have a nice day,
Josh

Infinity
31st January 2006, 11:33 PM
If you have not heard about them, then it is my suggestion to look closer, there are not as many trouble makers as people would like to think. 90% are idiots? That is quite an overstatement Josh.

From what I've seen things have been getting better than they have been. There are a couple of people and threads that make me want to hit myself, but there is much more competence than you'd expect.

Well... for no artist left behind, I feel it is my duty to break those barriers down. Encouragement of things never hurt.

A dream? So...? Dreams are not bad things, on certain occasions they do become realities.

I am waiting for what the head honcho has to say, I am sure he has already seen this thread.

PLANES CURE TOWERS
1st February 2006, 12:01 AM
If you have not heard about them, then it is my suggestion to look closer, there are not as many trouble makers as people would like to think. 90% are idiots? That is quite an overstatement Josh.
I haven't heard about them becuase the Fan Art forum is so full of spam they ae over shadowed, not becuase I don't care to look, indeed that is an arguement within itself.


From what I've seen things have been getting better than they have been. There are a couple of people and threads that make me want to hit myself, but there is much more competence than you'd expect.
Orly? Compare this to the rest of the forums. D/P aside, of course ¬¬


Well... for no artist left behind, I feel it is my duty to break those barriers down. Encouragement of things never hurt.
Like I said, a noble cause, yet people won't follow.


A dream? So...? Dreams are not bad things, on certain occasions they do become realities.
This isn't one of those occasions mate.


I am waiting for what the head honcho has to say, I am sure he has already seen this thread.
He'll say what I'm saying, and because he's SO FRIGGIN LAZY he won't reply
>:O!

-Josh

Mastercougar
1st February 2006, 12:23 AM
You may mean Davis and Blueguy. I put them on that list because I consider them both to be compotent comic makers. Flamebaiters? Certainly. Adept? Also certainly.

As for why you haven't heard of them, dare I say you haven't been involved in the FanComics Community?


Stories are far more complex than art

I could see your point, Josh...if it weren't for the art of the webcomic.

A webcomic has, when it comes to the best, the same in-depth story and charactering as does a fanfic. Essentially, it's an illustrated fanfiction with text bubbles.

And what does the Fan Comics forum have in it? Comics, of course.

Can you watch this character's vengance and not see complexity? (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=040217)

Can you see the fear in her eyes, and not see complexity? (http://www.egscomics.com/d/20031016.html)

Can you read this exposition without finding it convuluted and complex? (http://bobandgeorge.com/Archive/Oct02.php?date=5)

Add that to the complexity that exists in regular art, and then we end up with something pretty darn complex, don't we?

PLANES CURE TOWERS
1st February 2006, 12:25 AM
You may mean Davis and Blueguy. I put them on that list because I consider them both to be compotent comic makers. Flamebaiters? Certainly. Adept? Also certainly.

As for why you haven't heard of them, dare I say you haven't been involved in the FanComics Community?
I'm a comic artist myself, I don't post here because the quality of comments is sub par and It isn't really a place where I feel I should bother with. I have a few times, but meh.


I could see your point, Josh...if it weren't for the art of the webcomic.

A webcomic has, when it comes to the best, the same in-depth story and charactering as does a fanfic. Essentially, it's an illustrated fanfiction with text bubbles.

And what does the Fan Comics forum have in it? Comics, of course.

Can you watch this character's vengance and not see complexity? (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=040217)

Can you see the fear in her eyes, and not see complexity? (http://www.egscomics.com/d/20031016.html)

Can you read this exposition without finding it convuluted and complex? (http://bobandgeorge.com/Archive/Oct02.php?date=5)

Add that to the complexity that exists in regular art, and then we end up with something pretty darn complex, don't we?
The stickies in webcomics are adequate, like I said, and 1/3 of a forum isn't suffice to have a new area of said forum really.

There is little point in discussing this further, Serebii won't reply due to the fact I've been bugging him to in the chat, and he's lazy. He'll say what I'm saying though, I can guarantee you that.

-Josh

Shining Mew
1st February 2006, 12:51 AM
Well, why dont you guyz put this forward to serebii or one of the moderators? Im sure they wouold figure something out....

None of the mods agree with it from what Ive seen as no one has brought it up as a suggestion. Including the Art mods themselves.

And I still dont like it.


And I dont see the point of listing some "adept" artists. Does that mean we should make a forum just because you believe 20 or so people are worthy of it? Oh man.. I see names guys... means there should definitely be a new forum. Ya know.... how `bout a RMT Cafe? To discuss how to become a much better battler and to improve team set up skills! I can list a bunch of good RMTers if you want!


Edit: i did NOT close this so stop PMing me whining about how lame I am for "closing" it.
::shakes head::