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Kiyohime
21st January 2006, 10:35 PM
I was writing Aeon, and I came upon a roadblock. I've poked it, prodded it, tried to go around it, climb over it, even dig under it...but I am well and truly stumped.

This will be a thread where people ask for help with aspects of Pokemon that puzzles and confounds them, thanks to Tyranitar for the suggestion.

How would you be able to describe the way certain kinds of Pokemon function, such as their movements without making it too bizarre?

My specific problem is Cloyster. How would I work with him? In Colosseum, water pokemon seem to have the magical ability to hover and be independent of water.

Cloyster is heavy, rigid, and moves under water by jetting water through valves. But how about above water? I was going to have him hover, but I realized people might find that odd.

However, Glaile, Solrock, Lunatone, and Geodude hover. They all seem to be of similar size and basic shape, so I thought perhaps it'd be fine for Cloyster to move like a Glaile, but again, the idea confounds, and could apply to other Pokemon.

Cloyster needs to be able to move, IMO. I realize that in battle, he doesn't need to move, because he can just sit there and close his shell to ward off attacks, then shoot out Spike Cannons and blasts of water or ice, but I don't like the thought of limiting his appearances just to battle, because I like Cloyster as an more active character.

What do all of you fanficiton writers think?

Elemental Charizam
21st January 2006, 10:40 PM
You could make his inner body (which looks like a Gastly on toothpaste) very muscular, and he could opoke a bit out and crawl around like a snail. I've always seen as being vaguely like a sea snail...

Or it could move by firing water at the ground, or by dampening the ground and roll/slide along on the slippery earth.

CHeSHiRe-CaT
21st January 2006, 10:41 PM
Gah, that is a problem :S

I say either make it float, or have the ability to spring/bounce around. I've seen round Pokémon do it all the time...I think XD It's very hard when you think of it, yes. I say float mostly because bouncing is not really appropriate for a Cloyster's size O.o

Kiyohime
21st January 2006, 10:43 PM
Yes, and he's got spikes. XD He'd get stuck if he bounced too hard.

When he was a Shellder, I had him bounce by flapping his shell open and shut and using the tongue to smack himself off the ground, but I don't see a Cloyster doing that. XD Hovering seems the most logical yet illogical. x.x

PDL
21st January 2006, 10:48 PM
maybe he could have someone carry him?

or maybe he should have a specially designed chair or wagon?

I don't know really... :\

Nylf
21st January 2006, 10:53 PM
I myself like the idea of jets of water. it wants to move forwards, it shoots water backwards, it wants to move left, it shoots water to the right etc. I think making water it's legs is a good idea. Though then, it would take a lot of water.

CHeSHiRe-CaT
21st January 2006, 11:00 PM
zomg, Scrap. You should edit your first post, and make this a thread where people ask for ideas on Pokémon Physics, including your question on Cloyster. A lot of people have trouble with making scenes/characters/Pokémon realistic, and it could help theem

Kiyohime
21st January 2006, 11:01 PM
Good idea, I'll edit it.

The Big Al
21st January 2006, 11:13 PM
You could make Cloyster move only seldomly and then use the jets only when it needs to.

I guess several water pokemon would be immobile on land. Which is why people tend to stay away from them in trainer fics. Lapras probably just sits their on land and perhaps can use ice attacks to change the field and scoots on the ice. Gyarados probably moves like a snake on land but is more accustomed to water. The fish poke are screwed and there's no getting around that.

I see Geodude hopping around or using his arms to walk rather than hovering.

Tale
21st January 2006, 11:31 PM
I agree with Al on the Geodude bit...

Cloyster...well I think you've already stated the answer in your first post.

So Cloyster, when underwater, uses valves to move himself around. Cloyster is also very heavy. I think that if Cloyster was underwater, and propelled himself through valves in his shell or whatever, his wieght would cause him to plummet to the seafloor. So I'd say Cloyster also has valves to retain some kind of boyancy, propelling downwards at various powers to keep him aloft.

What I say is do the same with air. Of course, air is far 'thinner' than water, and it would require a whole lot more power from these valves to keep him upright and moving. So I think you could have Cloyster use these valves, but have his hovering form far closer to the ground where the air resistance is greater. This way, you could also get him to let out bursts of air through these valves to propell him upwards to overcome certain obstacles and whatnot.

OR you could let Cloyster have enough power in these valves to let him hover at a higher point in the air, or even however high he likes.

I also like Nylf's idea, you could have Cloyster fire constant jets of water to keep him upright (ever played Mario Sunshine? Mario uses Fludd to propel water to the ground, causing him to gain a lot more hieght =D) but then that could prove pretty awkward in certain situations, and could drain his power quite a bit.

Thats my suggestions anyway, I'm stumped otherwise D=.

Kiyohime
22nd January 2006, 12:22 AM
I've got a brilliant idea, and it's a mixture of everyone's suggestions. ^^

In some scenes, for dramatic effect, I wanted Cloyster to be hovering behind and slightly above Linali's head, its evil grin mirroring her own.

However, Cloyster will hover around two, three feet off the ground most of the time by using a series of pumps and valves within its body, controlling its buoyancy. I'm pretty sure I've read some article or other on how some aquatic organisms tend to use pressure to withstand the water pressure, much in the same way scuba divers (like me) use a buoyance control vest and continously equalize ourselves by pinching our noses shut and blowing to balance out the air inside our head. Cloyster could do something similar, and when he needs to hover higher, he uses a burst of water to push himself up.

Ryano Ra
22nd January 2006, 1:15 AM
Ahh, that is rather interesting. o.o

On the anime, Cloyster remain on the surfaces, more like slow hopping or simply sliding upon the surfaces. I imagine that her shell is rather slippery and leathery for this purpose, since she basically jets through the water like a humanoid bullet and whatnot. To be honest, the entire hover thing is quite creepy, since I'm used to seeing a Cloyster used on the ground, unlike Glalie, who both on games and the anime, hover over water, land, and ect. Plus, I couldn't imagine seeing a Cloyster hover over ground, that'd be a nightmare for many. XD Although it is a wonderful idea, you have to really think about the Pokemon that hover and WHY they do. I mean, I couldn't see Geodude on the ground because he doesn't have legs, despite the fact that his bulky arms would be the next option. Cloyster, on the other hand, has an entire body and surely can be on the surfaces, for if it couldn't be, in the anime and in the games, it'd be floating, correct?

Kiyohime
22nd January 2006, 1:41 AM
I don't think I've EVER seen Cloyster in the anime. o.o;;; How does he move? Does he glide on the ground?

Lady Myuu
22nd January 2006, 1:45 AM
Shelder bounces o.o I know that. Um, it was Loieli or whatever mever had one i think. But I think it just kinda... sat there and shot off ice beams XD

that doesn't help much. I never thought about it o.o guess it could bounce too... waait.

Ryano Ra
22nd January 2006, 1:46 AM
I don't think I've EVER seen Cloyster in the anime. o.o;;; How does he move? Does he glide on the ground?Really? Ash battles a Cloyster 2-4 times, if I'm not mistaken. o.o;; When Ash battled Prima, she used a Cloyster against him. From what I've both seen and know from the pokedex entry, Cloyster don't even move much above water. Think of them like a short boulder dug deep into the sandy surfaces - they are still and hard and silent, attacking only when the enemy is close. They react swiftly, but remain in the same positions and count on defensive moves to make up for their loss of movement above water. ^^

Though, Cloyster definitely glides upon ice and slippery surfaces, like sand and mud and possibly grass, but on hard surfaces, Cloyster is naturally still.

Kiyohime
22nd January 2006, 1:59 AM
Ah, shame There was one scene where I'd have really liked to see Cloyster hovering behind Linali, as imposing as a Glaile. Woulda been sweet. XP If I saw something as scary-looking as Cloyster floating around, I'd crap my pants.

I don't watch the anime, actually...XD

Ryano Ra
22nd January 2006, 2:04 AM
Oh, well, that probably explains it. XD I mean, sure, it did seem as though it was a fantastic idea, since Glalie and Cloyster somehow share some of the same characteristics (type-wise and shell/hardness-wise), but it really got me thinking about when I last saw Cloyster in the anime, in which Ash was battling one. In fact, he battled at least two or three of them. But yes, I'm not saying that you shouldn't do it -- by all means, if you can think of a great way of using it to hover, do so. However, it'd be appropriate that it perhaps wouldn't battle by floating, for it needs strength on land to battle and has its weight weighing down on the surface rather than suddenly plummeting to earth and exploding or whatnot. XD

Kiyohime
22nd January 2006, 2:06 AM
Yeah. XDDD Maybe something to do with ice....o.o;;; *thinks frantically*

Ryano Ra
22nd January 2006, 2:10 AM
Perhaps the Cloyster surronds herself in an Icy Wind, and makes a shadow of herself (more like a fainted silhouette) inside the tornado, breaking free and giving her enough strength to float through the air. Somehow, the weight must contradict itself with the land properties so it is able to weigh less in the higher atmospheres, therefore, allowing the Cloyster to hover.

Wondrous Sableye
22nd January 2006, 3:27 AM
I have a suggestion, though it's not really hovering…

One of Cloyster's natural moves is Spikes, correct? Well, Perhaps it could create spikes of ice below itself to push itself up. Does that seem to work? Not exactly gravity-defying, but it's a suggestion…

BirthdayPirate
22nd January 2006, 4:11 AM
The inner body of the Cloyster is actually quite strong, since it has to open and close its heavy shells constantly. It could hold its own in a fight unarmed, if the need arises, but it has one fatal weakness; the method of processing the air around it to create energy not only generates cold and water as a by-product, but a significant amount of carbon dioxide. The excess gas is expelled rapidly and spontaneously whenever it builds up behind one of several holes in the Cloyster's body. This gas is repelled a fairly strong rate and will actually cause the Cloyster to completely lose all balance and concentration if not focused in one particular way. Therefore, Cloyster gradually evolved (real evolution!) with several long spikes on its shell which can be blocked or unblocked by aligning it in certain ways with its inner shell, channelling the gas in such a way that a cushion of air forms above the Cloyster. This invisible cloud is still heated from being inside the Cloyster's body, so it rises quickly, leaving a vacuum behind it, which the Cloyster is promptly sucked into. By realigning its shells, it can manipulate this process to move in any direction or simply hover in place.

There's my bogus explanation. Fwee.

Kiyohime
22nd January 2006, 4:17 AM
O_O

Jack, you have saved my life.

*hugs*

That explaination makes perfect sense, and I'll be sure to give you credit for it when it comes up. D:

That's actually sort of how a scuba diver's buoyance control vest works, too. You use a lever and buttons to maniuplate the flow of air into the vest until you achieve neutral buoyance, a suspended state where you don't drift up or sink down. You control your depth by letting out or letting in air into the vest, going up or down.

Praxiteles
1st April 2006, 12:29 PM
All, right, I have a problem of my own. I'm not going into details, but there is going to be a type of wormhole constructed by the wisdom of the Legends, which basically links to whichever universe it's calibrated to lead to. I'm utterly lost as to how the wormhole would be made. I used to have sources on astrophysics, but now I have no idea how to design the machine. I only need a way to make a wormhole; the appearance and functioning of the machine will be easy to develop. But as to how it does this, that is, making a collapsible wormhole, I have no idea. Could anyone help me here?

Seijiro Mafuné
1st April 2006, 12:40 PM
...

Condensed and concentrated dark energy bound together by a special magnetic wave that is held by two poles of a special material.

As for the Cloyster problem, can't it possibly force itself into rolling, somehow?

Keleri
1st April 2006, 5:51 PM
All, right, I have a problem of my own. I'm not going into details, but there is going to be a type of wormhole constructed by the wisdom of the Legends, which basically links to whichever universe it's calibrated to lead to. I'm utterly lost as to how the wormhole would be made. I used to have sources on astrophysics, but now I have no idea how to design the machine. I only need a way to make a wormhole; the appearance and functioning of the machine will be easy to develop. But as to how it does this, that is, making a collapsible wormhole, I have no idea. Could anyone help me here?

Let's see... if you're going with an SF-wormhole, I'm pretty sure it's a singularity (a black hole) that happens to open somewhere else in the multiverse (instead of stretching you microscopically thin and then crushing you into a space much smaller than an atom). A black hole is formed when a certain mass (usually extremely large) is crushed into a tiny radius (the Schwarzchild radius, where r = 2GM/c^2 ... VERY tiny), so obviously this would take a LOT of energy to do manually. To put this into perspective, if you took the mass of the earth and squished it down to the size of a grain of sand, it would form a black hole.

Personally, I prefer fantasy-style "gates" or "doors" between worlds; they're a little neater and there's less chance of anything embarrassingly permanent happening to the world. Also, wormholes are getting for somewhere far away (insofar as I've seen on Star Trek), whereas other universes can be seen as being infinitesimally close to our own (overlapping, in a way). To get to them, one need only go... over there. There are numerous ways to do this, but generally they revolve around finding a 'weak' point in space and just... stepping through. See: Fairy Stories (where people go to Fairyland), Alice in Wonderland or the His Dark Materials trilogy.

Praxiteles
2nd April 2006, 7:05 AM
Condensed and concentrated dark energy bound together by a special magnetic wave that is held by two poles of a special material.

True... Very true.. I'll take this into consideration...


Let's see... if you're going with an SF-wormhole, I'm pretty sure it's a singularity (a black hole) that happens to open somewhere else in the multiverse (instead of stretching you microscopically thin and then crushing you into a space much smaller than an atom). A black hole is formed when a certain mass (usually extremely large) is crushed into a tiny radius (the Schwarzchild radius, where r = 2GM/c^2 ... VERY tiny), so obviously this would take a LOT of energy to do manually. To put this into perspective, if you took the mass of the earth and squished it down to the size of a grain of sand, it would form a black hole.

Personally, I prefer fantasy-style "gates" or "doors" between worlds; they're a little neater and there's less chance of anything embarrassingly permanent happening to the world. Also, wormholes are getting for somewhere far away (insofar as I've seen on Star Trek), whereas other universes can be seen as being infinitesimally close to our own (overlapping, in a way). To get to them, one need only go... over there. There are numerous ways to do this, but generally they revolve around finding a 'weak' point in space and just... stepping through. See: Fairy Stories (where people go to Fairyland), Alice in Wonderland or the His Dark Materials trilogy.

Although I like this idea best; it fits with what I wanted the machine to fuction as. There could be a dial each for all eleven dimensions, specifying which state the dimension would be in... All branes are eternally moving, so if one is slightly 'nudged' towards the other, and in such a way as to avoid starting off a big bang... *insert more ... here* If anyone sees a flaw, could they tell me? I'm really out of practice.