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Lady Myuu
25th January 2006, 3:24 AM
Not sure if this should go in fic ideas as its kind of not a fic idea but a world setting idea for a fic. With some fic ideas in it XD


I've been pondering this really, as I am working on short chaptered fics and each trying to be original and deep as I can get it with out being over dramatic. I love dabbling into fantasy, magic and fairies or witches and goblins. Thats why I love writing with pokemon, while the show and games give us just enough detail to grasp them they never really give us alot leaving open endedness that we can expand and grow on.

But what if I decided to dump the whole pokemon system aside besides the pokemon themselves? Perhaps I should just lose the pokemon themselves and make it something none-pokemon fiction...

anyway...

heres the idea. I am a furry fan, NO not the fitish kind. I like seeing anthros, I like the thought of animals that way, it just seems so fun and creative and beautiful. Pokemon anthros I have seen, some are well done, some are to human and some are not human enough.

But I want to use Pokemon anthros in a story. But I don't want to use humans, as I have used a human character(s) in my current fic and the next one coming.

Now designing the looks for Pokemon anthros wont be easy, as I think it is alot easier with animals as you don't have living rocks liek onix and geodude or round creatures like voltorb. But thats part of the challange.

I all ready have a somewhat established world, basing it off a childhood pretend game I use to play with friends. Before I even knew the term 'furry' or 'anthro' I all ready had a cat character named Catrea or however to spell it. I have rped then another world using these faces of my childhood in it with an anthro animal world known as Nira.

I want to kind of use this world, rename it though but put it in arabian times, much like alladin. Because I love the culture and clothing. While I would twick is a bit here and there to be more unique. Then of course there are the main characters, I was thinking of just using one of my FAV characters ever (and my first) as one of the stars and all togather there would be about... seven main characters.

I got a sort of plot in my head, having it start out in the middle of a civil war.


I was also thinking doing a sort of LOTR's style (not all that detail) like three different stories going on at once, while they will be extremely inflouenced by the other stories going on.

Then there comes the pokemon powers/attacks and legendry. I was thinking of making each legend a sort of god/goddess in the land to whom the pokemon pray too for guidance. So I also need suggestions to which legendry would be good for what role, thinking Mew as the goddess of love/motherhood/creation and Ho-Oh and Rayquazza the god and goddess (Make Ray female << >>) over the other gods perhaps.

The powers would be called magic perhaps but only like water types can learn water magic. Types that are both have to make a choice if the ywant to learn one type or the other. Normal types would learn light magic and dark types would learn dark magic which isn't evil at all, just works at night only.


But then it comes down too, would this even work? Would I be straying waaay to far from pokemon by doing this? Would take alot of work to pull this off. and I would only want this to be like a ten chaptered story, cuz anything longer would lose my intrest or be filled with plot holes. (thats why lately I have written only five chaptered stories)


... well?

Lily
25th January 2006, 3:56 AM
There's nothing as straying *too* far from an original concept...unless, of course, you stray *too* far. Wait, that didn't make much sense, did it?

Either way, I think it's a wonderful idea, provided you don't bore/stuff the readers with an overdose of details. (You know, the typical description-block paragraphs).. If it were me, I'd try to introduce it in a rather...unique matter, something that'll captivate the audience, while still keeping the concept of Pokemon in tact. Your fic sounds like a mysterious adventure sort of thing. XD


OOC:
Anyway, I remember Nira from your old old RPG. T'was great fun and I really enjoyed playing and interacting in the world you created. =0

My advices suck. XP; Sorry.

edit- oh, oh. Remember that any idea can be proven excellent if the writer knows how to convey it properly. =D

Ace Kenshader
25th January 2006, 4:00 AM
I've seen pokemon and animal anthros. And I think they are quite cool.

So yeah, try pokemon anthros for you're stroy.

Lady Myuu
25th January 2006, 4:08 AM
wow I didn't expect anyone to actrually vote teh 'stupid idea one' :P least you could do was say why. actrually I really wish whoever did would, so I could figure out how to improve it.

Anyway, hmm ok. yeah no over dosing detail :P when I said lotr's I meant the three stories going on not the detail (I can't even read the books I get soooo bored)

I was thinking of starting teh story in a battle actrually, nothing like blood and screaming and stuff.

Also I thought of another problem...

creatures! what would pokemon ride? Dragons perhaps? like in nira I used myth animals... but since some pokemon are that would that work? should I create my own?

Zerodius
25th January 2006, 4:26 AM
My opinion is:

Don't do it.

I just read through it again... and it seems to have absolutely nothing to do with Pokemon. As such, unstead of taking the easy and lazy route and basing off your anthro characters off Pokemon (and botchering in awful, horrific ways the original characters through your stories), then follow the path you should have followed:

Original world? Use original characters then!

Not Pokemon World or a variation? DON'T use Pokemon characters then!

In short, it's not really that the story idea is bad... but more that it's just that Pokemon do not fit.

It seems weird... but Pokemon and fantasy DOES NOT MIX WELL.

Like it or hate it, the strenght of the Pokemon World universe lies in the fact that no matter how overwhelming or magical it's creatures might seem to be, logic prevails WHICH IS THE OPPOSITE IN FANTASY-BASED UNIVERSES.

The result? Pokemon and fantasy ALWAYS end up contradicting and unless the story's focus is on how Pokemon and the new elements contradict themselves, the mixes NEVER work.

I mean it. I have yet to see a Pokemon/fantasy mix that worked even remotely without thousands of plotholes and stupid plot devices.

As such, do us a favor and unstead of making yet another horrific Pokemon/fantasy mix... make a wonderful fantasy-only story.

Yes, I am mean... but I believe that it should be said. Fantasy does NOT equal instant classic, people!... and there is a reason why every single fanfic featuring mages and elves and what not alongside Pokemon always failed miserably.

Lady Myuu
25th January 2006, 4:48 AM
I'm sorry but I think you are completly wrong about the fantasy and pokemon not mixing. Thats just not true.

... Logic is not the opposite of fantasy, if the world has magic then it is perfectly logical for that world now isn't it?

I wanted to use pokemon and I was only going ot use one of my characters from my old story. I didn't want to write a 'completely' original story because I wanted to relate to people on this forum.

Your opinion is noted. But your 'logic' doesn't make sesne to me. :P

Kiyohime
25th January 2006, 4:58 AM
Humm, I don't know about the whole fantasy =/= Pokemon thing. Serpent Syra's done fantasy fanfiction for a long time, and I thought his most recent work, Rhapsody, has been doing a good job of keeping a balance of fantasy and Pokemon. He has his own made-up world, laws of the land, and so on, and it's hasn't gotten illogical or ridiculous for the readers IMO.

Magic can't really be defined universally, too. Each made-up world has its own laws of magic, and while I agree they should make sense in a way, they shouldn't have too much restrictions imposed on them. That's part of the lure of fantasty, you're creating fantasy. I'm not really worried about Myuu making mistakes, since RPGing incorporates a lot of fantasy elements, too.

Good luck on this, Myuu. ^^

Zerodius
25th January 2006, 4:58 AM
You have stated:

"I wanted to relate to people on this forum."

OK... now let's state reasons why this is bad...
-Mary-sue ahoy! (author insertion almost/always end up in this way)
-Inside jokes (face it, it always happen too)
-Usernames =/= good character names (I can't really relate to a character called CoolDude1043202 or
-Author self-insertion
UberGoddessBlackWhite)
-Character development = none usually
-Only the forum members in the story will actually care about the story, more often than not
-If you're not from Serebii, the story will not make sense and just won't be interesting to you, most probably

Yes, this list is quite mean... but this happens in 99% of the stories like this.

Now... if you can avoid this, there still is the fact of Pokemon characters being used in awful, out-of-place situations.

Yes, maybe the Pokemon/fantasy rant is more about a misuse than an impossibility (I should have developed more rather than just repeat myself)...

Stories that concern only a single forum tend to fail miserably, however, for the reasons stated above. The list above CAN maybe not apply to your fic... but the last point is to be taken into account. As stated above, CoolDude20103 (imaginary name) might like to see his name and personality used for a character in a fic... but to everyone else on the Earth, this is a very, very negative point.

Kiyohime
25th January 2006, 5:01 AM
When did she mention anything about saving the world with Mr. Cooldude-random numbers? XD

EDIT: Ah, never mind. o.o;;

Saffire Persian
25th January 2006, 5:08 AM
Well, as it's a Fantasy Story, might I make a suggestion? Since you want to do away with Pok&#233;mon/Humans and have anthros, perhaps you can think up a logical reason for why they are gone, and anthros are in their place.

Here's my suggestion, feel free to discard it or whatever you'd like.

What if due to the constant evolution of the world, Pok&#233;mon and Humans began to die out for some reason or another - some kind of global catastrophe, other event, wahtever -- and so, in order to survive, both Human and Pok&#233;mon had to adapt, taht is, change and evolve themselves to fit the new world. Humans didn't have the power Pok&#233;mon did, but yet, most Pok&#233;mon were brittle and couldn't do things that humans could do. So, in the end, the two powers combined, and eventually, the world became totally populated by anthros, as that was the only way for both species to live on. The rest of the Pokemon/human remnant died. Thus, the anthro world was born.

*shruggs* Just an idea. Hopefully the above stuff makes sense.

Lady Myuu
25th January 2006, 5:12 AM
hmm I wasn't thinking of that, though perhaps it would be nice background history. As while I want people to understand the world, I don't want it to fully rely on why anthros are this way but more as to the characters and story itself.

Then again I really like your idea O.o though I am reading Shiny_deoxys simply lovely little fic with humans evolving, that idea reminded me of it. hmm I can think of a way to work something like that in.

But I want to put it in arabian like time, so its kinda like de-evolving techology. Also steeds and such, any idea of creatures that could be used as transportation? perhaps pokemon that evolved a different way to where they become rather stupid yet strong beasts that are no longer labeled pokemon?


hmm I could have humanity a legend in the history of the anthros so that they never really believed humans ever existed but in truth they just sort of became one...

wow neat idea. Thanks o.o I'll think about it.


EDIT:

Zerodius... -__- what are you talking about? relate as in having faces people will reconize, such as pokemon. Because this is a pokemon forum. I am not looking to publishing htis work unless perhaps I decided to like change it. I don't do the whole having people join into the fic thing. You tottally read me wrong.

But then agian I would probably hate it by then.

Saffire Persian
25th January 2006, 5:16 AM
Like the evolutionist theory? Yes, you could do that. Keep in mind that the time when human and pokemon existed with one another doesn't necessarily have to be in the modern time. ^_^ It's your world you're creating, so when the Pok&#233;mon/Humans evolved, it could be in a time long past..

Or you could go in the other direction about the world as they knew it (the modern world) being destroyed, and as they were forced to evolve, so did their civilization, but as the technology and stuff was destroyed, they slowly 'deevolved' (or evolved if you wish) to a more "arabian" setting.

However, it's up to you.

Edit Oh, and if you don't want to rely on the whole 'anthro' backstory, you could always have the story about "Humans and Pokemon evolving" just being in like.. tales that the anthros tell their kids or something. Barely mentioned, but there.

Zerodius
25th January 2006, 5:18 AM
I do not want to sound like the Evil Clown of the party... but well...

That idea sounds awful, actually. It's cliche, overdone, and usually just plain bad.

Humans build machines to adapt.
Pokemon have powers to adapt.

Two separate ways... and two EFFECTIVE ways and the "global disaster" is actually a plot device more than a REAL reason.

Just think about it...

Earthquake? Floods? Hurricanes? Humans can adapt with their machines. Pokemon can adapt with their powers.

Ice age/global heat? Again, humans use machines and Pokemon, powers.

Viruses? Immunity systems, nothing to do with way of evolution.

Apart from alien invasion or the Legendary Pokemon deciding that it would be fun to merge humans and Pokemon, the "global disaster" idea is a boring, cliche plot device and nothing more.

Yes, I'm being mean again and I should really find some constructive criticism to give...

Saffire Persian
25th January 2006, 5:25 AM
I do not want to sound like the Evil Clown of the party... but well...

That idea sounds awful, actually. It's cliche, overdone, and usually just plain bad.

Humans build machines to adapt.
Pokemon have powers to adapt.

Two separate ways... and two EFFECTIVE ways and the "global disaster" is actually a plot device more than a REAL reason.

Just think about it...

Earthquake? Floods? Hurricanes? Humans can adapt with their machines. Pokemon can adapt with their powers.

Ice age/global heat? Again, humans use machines and Pokemon, powers.

Viruses? Immunity systems, nothing to do with way of evolution.

Apart from alien invasion or the Legendary Pokemon deciding that it would be fun to merge humans and Pokemon, the "global disaster" idea is a boring, cliche plot device and nothing more.

Just because an idea is cliché doesn't mean it can't be good. You can also make a cliché thing uncliché. And just because humans have their machines and Pokémon have their powers, doesn't mean they'll always be able to adapt. For instance, if the electricity and stuff were to be knocked out for some reason or another, humans wold have trouble functioning because they are too dependent on machines.

And when it comes down to disease, remember the Black Plague? It killed a lot of people. Sure, there were remnants, but that was because the humans adapted or had genes (they suspect) that had a resistance to it. And yes, immune systems can build up immunity over time.

That, my friend, is evolution. ^_^

Lady Myuu
25th January 2006, 5:26 AM
I don't really understand the term cliche because any cliche if done corrently and with maybe a bit twicking can be something much better.

And I have NEVER read a fic like that so I don't know why it would be cliche.

I was thinking more on the lines of of world where humans never existed, or that this time around in the pokemon world, humans didn't surivive there first startings of evolution. Its not something that will play ANY major rolls in the plot so it isn't to importent as long as it makes enough sense.

In my old rpg, humanity did once exist but god(s) wiped them out and gave way to a new generation hoping for more purity. I like that idea as well as Saffire's cuz it could make good sequels XD


edit: I can't believe I am all yay evolution when actrually I don't really believe in it the same way alot of people do :x oh well.

Kiyohime
25th January 2006, 5:39 AM
Zerodius, if you're saying you have no constructive criticism to give and you're being mean just for the sake of being mean, then it's childish and pointless, isn't it? o.o;;

Zerodius
25th January 2006, 5:45 AM
Ha... the good old "0MG!!!111!!! HUMANS ARE PURE 3B1L!!11!!!!" idea...

I always wondered why there is so much hatred toward humans, considering that any specie is better than humans... sigh... Humans are humans. They're NOT demons, you know?

Why do I even bother? Anyway, I already stated my opinion which is:

-Lazy ways of trying to get readers
-Stupid plot devices and plotholes
-Cliches ahoy!

... now that I stated my opinion, I am free to stop bashing and to let you writte whatever you want. In time, when this story will be posted, I shall take great pleasure in pointing every plothole and plot device... but for now, I think I'll give you a break since I would be stupid and hypocritical to keep repeating myself... and I'm too much negative anyway. I need to find something positive to say...

OH YES! I GOT IT!

-Get rid of the Pokemon characters.
-Get rid of the "HUMANS ARE 3B1L!!!1111" plot device
-Get rid of the "global disaster" plot device
-Make some ORIGINAL characters

With those points above, the story should be decent... maybe even excellent and superb.

But well, anyway... I'm done here.

Have a nice day.

Lady Myuu
25th January 2006, 6:02 AM
Well since the story is not based off humans and pokemon evolving at all or the fact that it has nothing to do with anything you have pointed out so far other then the fact that I want to write a pokemon story to relate with other people or maybe I just like writing about pokemon to help me grow in experince with writing at all...

but I welcome you with open arms when this fic is up to review I'd love to nitpick at all your nitpicking when you draw teh wrong conclusions about my story far before you even know the plot at all. Or anything to matter with it or how I am really going to go about with anything.

Oh and I'm not a human hater, I love humanity very much. If not I'd try to crossbreed with a moose.


edit: actrually I have come up with a way thanks to Psychic's help and now I don't have to involve humans at all sooo yeah. No worries there then.

Not saying what it is but everyone go give Psychic a huge.

Saffire your idea was great, I just couldn't really use it like I wish I could or else it would take away far to much from what I want to do.

Dilasc
25th January 2006, 9:05 AM
I have never heard of the idea of 'disaster causes mutation before,' unless you got that from my preview for Pain to Paradise, in which case, shame on you, I'd like to doubt it's the case. At the same time, I'd bet my spleen and Y chromosome both that it was involved in some way towards the defining of this as 'cliche,' because to be blunt, I've never heard of this idea at all! No, this is not my ego at work here, I'm serious! The way this is all defined is so very close to the forestory of Paradise to Pain being an apocolyptic future of mixed species.

Ah wait, but this is not the place for that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but according to the main idea, the world has apparently ALWAYS been that way, and hasn't simply been changed... at least that's the message I'm getting.

All in all, if the idea can be pulled off in an original manner, then by all means go for it! Seriously, I do not often hear of this idea at all, which is why I personally dabbled in the idea of mixed species.

Lady Myuu
25th January 2006, 3:36 PM
I didnt even think about how the pokemon got that way, I was just thinking it was a version of the pokemon world that never had humans. But then Psychic gave me an idea that solves the problem and gives a unique start to it.

And don't worry Dilasc o.O I never read/heard of pain to paradise. I don't steal ideas o.O well I may hear one that gives me another and I twick it a bit but never actrually still and I always give credit to the people who gave insperation to the idea at least.

I didn't want this to be a big deal cuz it really isn't importent to the story line at all.

Yamato-san
25th January 2006, 7:51 PM
heres the idea. I am a furry fan, NO not the fitish kind. I like seeing anthros, I like the thought of animals that way, it just seems so fun and creative and beautiful. Pokemon anthros I have seen, some are well done, some are to human and some are not human enough.

But I want to use Pokemon anthros in a story. But I don't want to use humans, as I have used a human character(s) in my current fic and the next one coming.

Now designing the looks for Pokemon anthros wont be easy, as I think it is alot easier with animals as you don't have living rocks liek onix and geodude or round creatures like voltorb. But thats part of the challange.

Don't mean to offend, but I personally don't get how furries seemed to get so popular amongst the internet. If you ask me, I'd like it if more people took an interest to stuff like this (http://asame2.web.infoseek.co.jp/satopi.html), this (http://asame2.web.infoseek.co.jp/pmon.html), this (http://kirima.ifdef.jp/screen.html), and this (http://nagoya.cool.ne.jp/mzd/poke.html). Stuff that looks like human cosplayers trying to resemble Pokemon species, seems to be pretty popular on Japanese sites. But I guess it appeals to me because I have quite a thing for anime characters, especially human bishoujo.

But anyway, if you want help on how an anthro for certain Pokemon would look, these might be able to help you. "Sato x Pika" (the first link) especially, since you get to see a humanistic Iwark, and it manages to form a storyline using such characters, even if it mostly resembles the games and the theme is comedy. Regardless, it might be worth getting one or two ideas from if you're trying to make a Pokemon plot involving anthros.

Lady Myuu
25th January 2006, 8:11 PM
man I remember the days when I thought I was the one to invent anthros XD cuz I was eight years old and naive like that.

I never really liked things like that o.O guess cuz I never liked people who dressed up in furry suits. I don't really see pokemon furries and anthros as the same thing. I see anthros more animal then human...

question, whats the point in dressing up as pokemon? Or are they hybrids? like humans with some pokemon twists?

The plot is more on the seven main characters story as they try to deal with a currepted kingdom... well actrually it wasn't currepted more like taken over. I just thought it would be neat to use something different other then just humans with pokemon or animals o.o something out there..

Yamato-san
25th January 2006, 9:15 PM
question, whats the point in dressing up as pokemon? Or are they hybrids? like humans with some pokemon twists?

Yes, they are humans that have Pokemon powers. I guess another way to look at it would be Digimon, Yu-gi-oh! Duel Monsters, or those RPGs where several of the "monsters" resemble some kind of human warrior or witch or something (and I don't mean RPGs where you battle an army and soldiers are considered "monsters" just because that's the general term for an enemy in RPGs.... I mean soldiers that actually do act like any other monster. They're found during random battles in the wilderness, and in some RPGs like Dragon Quest, these soldier monsters can even be recruited into your party and stored inside a monster kennel with other recruited monsters). Basically, they seem human (superpowered human, but human nontheless), have their own attire and everything, yet, they're just a member of a species.

Lady Myuu
25th January 2006, 9:21 PM
Ooh right, ok. Hmm, I use to be into hybrids, then I brought back my old childhood game and got into anthros. Hybrids I like to use in stories like lab experiments on humans while Anthros feel morel like something on there own, neither experimented or just having them poof togather or something.

I was thinking about legendry/gods in the story. As it seemed no one had any suggestions for them. I was wondering if I should name each legendry a different more personal name and have them not have psychical forms.

Then I could have (only like one or two characters) legendry pokemon characters, well not with powrs or anything, actrually they would seem to be about as common as the other anthros in the story. Like a lot of mew anthros or suicune would just be a sort of race of anthros and not legendry. How they become legendry (or at least one of them) wouldn't be involved in this story really but I have a reason on to how.

Should I ditch that idea? Not use any legendry at all otehr then just gods for them to pray too?

if I should use some (they wouldn't be any specialure then any of the other characters) then I would have to create different names for the gods and not jsut have them pray to the great Latios or something...