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XD003 DARK METAL LUGIA
11th June 2007, 5:25 PM
let me ask you 2 questions

1: are you an idiot, a retard, or are you just a gay moronic fool?
If you have never heard of me, believe in me and goive me time, if not, i will find you and <speaks in spooky voice> slow your computer down so you cant post stuff like this. And why did you post this?

2: Why is this off-topic!!!!!!

~Bent~
12th June 2007, 6:50 PM
Coolboyman found some beta maps independently several years ago, and put one of them in Pokemon Brown intentionally. That's why it looks similar.

HexaTyphlosion
13th June 2007, 6:17 AM
I have now developed a theory that the translators simply translate from the text bank of an uncompiled version of the game without actually knowing what text ends up where.

Ah, there was some map I found a while ago... I can't remember which it was, though.

HexaTyphlosion
13th June 2007, 6:46 AM
One other thing to note: It's possible to determine the relative age of a map by whether or not there are pink squares in front of doors. In R/G/B/Y, warp events were set up based only on collision, but in G/S/C either a door, a pink square, or a warp panel has to be collided with.

Observe the unenhanced beta map of Goldenrod City (http://i1.*******.com/nqz42b.png). Notice that the route houses to the west and south have said pink tiles. Now observe the unenhanced map of Ecruteak City (http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f27/gulzarofgrass/BetaEcruteak.png). It is most likely that the whirlpool tiles were originally ordinary walking tiles, which makes the entry house to the gym and Tin Tower devoid of any pink squares; the Ecruteak map is therefore from an earlier point in production than the Goldenrod map. (Also note that the enhanced Ecruteak map (http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f27/gulzarofgrass/BetaEcruteakenhanced1.png) has the pink squares misleadingly added in, as well as the roof tiles switched to trees rather than train tracks as established by the beta Goldenrod map.)

It seems evidence that the whirlpools were added in a later point in development. Furthermore, loading the whirlpool-laden maps with the Goldenrod-Azalea tileset (which is different from the rest of Johto) shows towns that look much more usable. Perhaps the Goldenrod-Azalea tileset is older?

Also, why is it that so many beta cities have been found, but almost no beta routes?

Also, now that Diamond and Pearl are out, there's one idea that's struck me.


Yeah HexaTyphlosion, I’ve seen those cave tiles before. It makes me think that they were planning on having something more in a cave (a city perhaps?). And if people believe that the beta Goldenrod isn’t real, think again. I’ve entered the offsets into my version of Goldmap and it shows up perfectly. Guys, honestly, stop looking for made-up stuff: you’re not going to find it here because I won’t allow it.
;001;

If there was a cart, they were most likely planning a mine. Perhaps a coal mine like a certain city in Sinnoh?

~Bent~
13th June 2007, 7:31 PM
One other thing to note: It's possible to determine the relative age of a map by whether or not there are pink squares in front of doors. In R/G/B/Y, warp events were set up based only on collision, but in G/S/C either a door, a pink square, or a warp panel has to be collided with.

Observe the unenhanced beta map of Goldenrod City (http://i1.*******.com/nqz42b.png). Notice that the route houses to the west and south have said pink tiles. Now observe the unenhanced map of Ecruteak City (http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f27/gulzarofgrass/BetaEcruteak.png). It is most likely that the whirlpool tiles were originally ordinary walking tiles, which makes the entry house to the gym and Tin Tower devoid of any pink squares; the Ecruteak map is therefore from an earlier point in production than the Goldenrod map. (Also note that the enhanced Ecruteak map (http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f27/gulzarofgrass/BetaEcruteakenhanced1.png) has the pink squares misleadingly added in, as well as the roof tiles switched to trees rather than train tracks as established by the beta Goldenrod map.)The pink tiles are only used for side and upper entrances to buildings. Since there are no entrances of that type anyway in the beta Ecruteak City, it's inconclusive.

If we're to "idealize" these maps, we'll need to modify specific blocks. Maps are made up of 32x32 pixel "blocks," as opposed to multiple 8x8 pixel tiles (though the blocks themselves are made up of specific arrangements of these 8x8 pixel tiles), and thus a messed-up block that appears twice in a single map can be used to deduce what the block originally looked like. I'll do a bit of messing around, to see what I can do with the blocks.
Also, now that Diamond and Pearl are out, there's one idea that's struck me.

If there was a cart, they were most likely planning a mine. Perhaps a coal mine like a certain city in Sinnoh?It's certainly possible. D/P also had honey trees, a feature in GSC that was taken out during development. Maybe there are other things as well.

HexaTyphlosion
13th June 2007, 11:36 PM
The pink tiles are only used for side and upper entrances to buildings. Since there are no entrances of that type anyway in the beta Ecruteak City, it's inconclusive.

Oh really? (http://i15.*******.com/52lvw5x.jpg)

Furthermore, I have come to the conclusion that most of these maps used an older tileset different from both the Goldenrod-Azalea tileset and the normal Johto tileset. The two likely diverged at some point in development when Game Freak wanted to add certain little touches to towns, but couldn't using a single tileset.

Observe the following:
Here (http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f27/gulzarofgrass/Betatown.png) is Beta Town I with the normal Johto tileset.
Here (http://i7.*******.com/53yji3s.png) is Beta Town I with the Goldenrod-Azalea tileset.

Here (http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f27/gulzarofgrass/BetaEcruteak.png) is the Beta Ecruteak City with the normal Johto tileset.
Here (http://i9.*******.com/4u1schg.png) is the Beta Ecruteak City with the Goldenrod-Azalea tileset.

Notice that while neither is satisfactory, each has some correct tiles that the other doesn't.

I'm going to set about piecing together the beta tileset.

Shiun
14th June 2007, 12:17 PM
Wow, just wow! I had a bit of an idea that there was a lot left out...just not this much.
I can only offer sugestions and theories.
The Beta map 4 looks like New Bark Town, slightly altered.
Umm...for a long time I've notice there's a square of water north east of Cherrygrove surrounded by trees...what is that? Could someone investigate?
As said before, wow, just wow.

~Bent~
14th June 2007, 7:38 PM
Trying to recreate the beta blockset is a good idea. I've been looking at collision data lately, but I may try to help.

I took the beta Ecruteak map and numbered the blocks that don't match, replacing them with my best idea of what they would be. Here (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y158/TheWierdo/betanumbers.png)'s the map with numbered blocks (that thus need to be changed for the "beta blockset"), and here (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y158/TheWierdo/betaidealized.png)'s my "idealized" beta Ecruteak. Notice that the gym is inaccessible, because the building just south of it has no door and is blocked by trees; that's how I came to the conclusion that there are no pink tiles in Beta Ecruteak. It was most likely possible to enter the Gym and the Tin Tower by entering through the connected route from the left.

One added note; there was one beta map planned for Crystal, but this time the developers deleted it completely, so it's impossible to know what it was.

jurgen200
28th June 2007, 8:49 AM
Thanx to Gulzar and everyone else for finding all this! Keep up the good work! Did not surprise me at all that a Gym was supposed to be at Lake of Rage, as from Day 1 it has always puzzled me why you can fly to LoR when there is another town spitting distance away, and why there's a pointless tree maze on the real LoR that serves no purpose other than "filling" up the huge map. Hardly surprising that the Safari Zone was removed after all the Red and Blue craziness but I don't understand Cinnabar Island. Love the small discoveries like the mine cart and VoltorbBadge.

Has anyone tried to recreate a beta version of the game using Goldmap?

Anyhoo, of (http://www.magicstone.de/dzd/?page=16) all (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver_Beta) the (http://www.pokewiki.de/Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_%26_Silber_%28Beta%29) Gold (http://web.archive.org/web/20041021125709/pokefor.greenchu.de/meowth346/gbc/alpha/) & Silver (http://www.pkmn.co.uk/?action=section&page=1) beta stuff on the web, this is the best! Keep searching!

Shiun
6th July 2007, 1:06 PM
Hmm...this topic seems to be in decay.
Oh yeah...I looked around and their's a cave left of the route to Union Cave from Violet City. It's blocked by trees. I'm pretty sure their's something there...I saw a video on Youtube.
It would be interesting to see if we could dig deeper.

Oh yes I've been wondering about the Beta Maps. They had to fit somewhere on the Johto map. I've come up with some things.

Beta Map I. I think this could have gone on the route to union Cave from Violet if you ignore the route going to the west. (The one with a bridge)
Beta Map II. (the one with an island in the south west). I can only fit this in one place and that's where Illex Forest is.
Beta Map III. (The one with the tower and the trees), On the map of Johto I can fit this around Blackthorn
Beta Map IV. (The one with a Pokemon Centre and 3 other buildings) I'm sure this is the beta New Bark Town for 3 reasons
I. It has a big building which could be for Elm's Lab
II. It has the route going east to Tohjo and the one going west to begin your journey
III. One of the houses has a sign and has slightly different coloring. This is probably your house.

Of course I might be entirely wrong but this is about all I can offer as I have no knowledge of hacking.

Spock
9th August 2007, 1:59 PM
Although it is irrelevent, I'd like to know the reason why that one tile in Pokemon Red/Blue's Unknown Dungeon wasn't solid. Didn't the tiles have the solidity pre-coded in up untill Ruby and Sapphire?

Gulzar
12th August 2007, 2:42 AM
Hmm, I’m not familiar with this tile. Could you give a location, and maybe I can look into it?
;001;

Spock
12th August 2007, 4:14 AM
Somewhere in the Red/Blue unknown dugeon, there's a 2x2 rock underneath a staircase that you can walk on.

Locke Yggdrasill
12th August 2007, 4:18 AM
Ah, I remember that one. I'll try to get a map soon.

Shiun
12th August 2007, 8:14 AM
Hello Again. I see the topic has been revived.
I have been fascinated by your discoveries of beta objects and using a copy of my Gold r((, I did some ha*)**(. I found 2 items of interest but I had to use questionable resources.

The first one is a locked house just north of the ruins of Alph East Entrance
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x149/ShiunEnshidia/LockedHouseinViolet.png
I've tried getting in but no use

The second is the cave South of the Ruins of Alph East Entrance
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x149/ShiunEnshidia/BetaCave.png

Although you can't see it, it actually is the rough shape of a beta cave you found. These were both looked at for a while and I swear they are not fake.

Sir Crocodile
6th October 2007, 2:30 PM
Hmmm... What would be in the third tower in beta town 3?

illustriouscosmiccoral
12th October 2007, 11:38 PM
Take a look at this thread (http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?p=7020684) to learn the truth.

;222;

illustriouscosmiccoral
13th October 2007, 10:46 PM
Don’t post any more in this thread because it’s going to be closed soon since all of the “finds” here are stolen.

;222;

P_S_B
15th October 2007, 10:49 AM
Don’t post any more in this thread because it’s going to be closed soon since all of the “finds” here are stolen.

;222;

Excuse me, a you saying that I "stole" undue credit for finding beta Olivine and the beta town? I'll have you know that, while they may have been previously discovered, I found them, fair and square, through hours of punching random offsets into Goldmap, and I think it is entirely likely that Gulzar did the same.

P.S. The thread will probably not be closed because of this, as you have no grounds on which to prove that these finds are purposefully stolen.

Shiun
16th October 2007, 12:57 PM
I may as well defend.
Ok sure, people may have found stuff before he did and some of us but how were we too know that someone else had found them?
On that note, I have not found anything else. I have been looking though.

Korshar
16th October 2007, 6:08 PM
Excuse me, a you saying that I "stole" undue credit for finding beta Olivine and the beta town? I'll have you know that, while they may have been previously discovered, I found them, fair and square, through hours of punching random offsets into Goldmap, and I think it is entirely likely that Gulzar did the same.

P.S. The thread will probably not be closed because of this, as you have no grounds on which to prove that these finds are purposefully stolen.

How can you say someone has stolen something if you don't have proof? Why would this thread be closed. It's a nice discussion. That 2 links don't work btw Shiun...

Kim62
19th October 2007, 11:36 PM
Beta town 3 looks like blackthorn city to me (I don't know why it just does)
and beta town 4 is most likely new bark town

willischong
20th October 2007, 2:38 PM
Beta town 3 looks like blackthorn city to me (I don't know why it just does)
and beta town 4 is most likely new bark town

What makes you think of that?

The "Beta Route 23" looks normal only the route to the POKeMON League was longer and Victory Road turns into a building. :p

Kim62
20th October 2007, 3:39 PM
What makes you think of that?

The "Beta Route 23" looks normal only the route to the POKeMON League was longer and Victory Road turns into a building. :p

I don't know it just does to me

Shiun
21st October 2007, 7:38 AM
the links don't work because I moved them. I'll put them in later along with evidence.

NinjaScyther4
21st October 2007, 7:48 AM
Can you possibly play on these "Beta" Maps?

Shiun
21st October 2007, 8:09 AM
Sure.
While I was using forbidden items to look around the game, I was influenced by a youtube video of a beta cave entrance. I decided to find it. While finding it, I stumbled across a house, locked and away from Violet City. You can see a bit of it from Violet.
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x149/ShiunEnshidia/Scraps/PokemonGoldbeginningofLockedHouse.png
It's actually connected to this
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x149/ShiunEnshidia/Scraps/LockedHouseinViolet.png

Also that cave I saw on Youtube and refound is also partly seeable.
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x149/ShiunEnshidia/Scraps/PokemonGoldBeginningofBetaCave.png
it's connected to this
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x149/ShiunEnshidia/Scraps/BetaCave.png

Gulzar
21st October 2007, 8:51 PM
Shiun: Sorry to burst your bubble, but the cave that you’re talking about that’s on the south-west edge of Violet, it’s just a bit of the Unown Ruins hanging over the edge of the map. The actual ruins are on a different map entirely (kind of like a different dimension, for all you scifi fans that know what I’m talking about). The same effect can be seen with Saffron City.
;001;

Kim62
25th October 2007, 10:18 PM
I think I've figured it out
Beta town 1 is Cianwood City
Beta town 2 is Blackthorn City
Beta town 3 is Azalea Town
and Beta town 4 is New Bark Town
That's what I think any ways.

Shiun
26th October 2007, 3:49 AM
Gulzar: Ah well, I suppose the house is too. It does make sense.
Kim: I think your right with the geussing except for I. I don't think it's Cianwood. For Memory, Lake of Rage was the city but was scrapped and quickly replaced with Cianwood. That map also has routes coming out, although It might possibly be the city, I don't know.

Kim62
26th October 2007, 4:19 AM
Yeah probably, but if it's not cianwood what city is it? I mean there is only ten cities in jhoto unless there was suppose to be a eleventh or they made two beta maps of one city.

lizardman123
26th October 2007, 1:32 PM
i dunno maybe those team rocket hideout maps might be silph co.
or you revisit the game corner hideout or something in kanto
just a thought

lizardman123
26th October 2007, 1:37 PM
no wait sorry silph co. is peaceful in the game isn't it
well maybe they changed the whole storyline
for example you randomly get the item 'upgrade' don't you from the bottom floor of silph co. (i haven't played in ages excuse me if i am wrong)
maybe you have to defeat team rocket or some other team *insert corny name here*
and when you defeat them you get the 'upgrade' as a reward or the 'voltorb badge' (lol just kidding)

... or maybe i have too much time on my hands and a wild imagination :(

nick

Spock
27th October 2007, 4:14 AM
Don’t post any more in this thread because it’s going to be closed soon since all of the “finds” here are stolen.
Get out. You're really annoying.


Anyways, it's been a while since I've looked into the GSC maps. I'll have to dust the old GoldMap off and dig through.

Sang'gre Habagat
30th October 2007, 11:07 AM
*serious tone*

So, if I'm using GoldMap to make a hack, how do I access these maps from there?

jurgen200
5th January 2008, 1:57 PM
In Goldmap, I believe they are under "Other" or something similar, as a series of ??????

If you are a novice, you must copy the ????? beta maps into one of the maps that are accessible if you want to show them off in your game. I'm working on a playable gold game that restores the beta discoveries.

Has anyone tried to find any beta maps in Pokemon red and green?

jurgen200
9th January 2008, 12:11 PM
For those of you who love offsets:
http://datacrystal.org/wiki/Pokemon_Gold:ROM_map
Go to the maps section of that page, and every offset Coolboyman (legendary creator of Pokemon Brown) found is listed.

Even though these offsets have already been "found" (hah!) I would love to see images of some of the other beta maps listed on that wiki. (I can't seem to get the "Try Map" function to work on my Goldmap! I always get a bizarre dll error.)

P.S. As long as credit is given where it is due, there is nothing wrong with collecting all this beta information into one place... it is currently fragmented all over the net.

Team Blast
20th January 2008, 2:02 PM
Um, I have a huge problem with my Pokemon Silver Version. There is a problem with the Pokegear's radio, and the problem, the icon won't display. I have talked many times to the guy who gave me it (The guy in the Kanto Radio Station). I have went up to Snorlax many times and wouldn't work.

IIMarckus
20th January 2008, 10:52 PM
Um, I have a huge problem with my Pokemon Silver Version. There is a problem with the Pokegear's radio, and the problem, the icon won't display. I have talked many times to the guy who gave me it (The guy in the Kanto Radio Station). I have went up to Snorlax many times and wouldn't work.Chances are you never picked up the first Radio Card from the Goldenrod Radio Tower.

.:Alex:.
1st July 2008, 11:00 AM
Random thoughts...

Hm. I've always thought that the Lake of Rage town was a very early version of Mahogany Town, which may explain why Mahogany town is so small (Plus why would they make two towns that late in the game which are so close together).

This would make sense, because the route would continue to where current Mahogany Town is, and the then the route after it would be some sort of challenge to Blackthorn City (seeing as we've established the possibility that the Ice Path did not exist until much later in development).

The locked house and cave in Violet City exist purely for appearance only, to give the illusion that the Ruins of Alph are there and that you can see past the trees.

The pharmacy in Ecruteak was likely moved because there's just way too much going on there then, so they spread things out and gave more of an incentive to Cianwood City. I do think Cianwood always existed there, because I highly doubt they would make a dead end sea with only the barely accessible whirl islands. Of course Cianwood may have orignially been located further down the coast, rather than on a seperate island.

Oh, and Jasmine's pokemon are stronger than Pryce because she only has the two. Just like with trainers, the less pokemon they have, the stronger they usually are. It's to counter-balance the fact she has barely any pokemon.

Koneku
2nd July 2008, 12:25 AM
I'm not sure if anyone's asked this already, so, here it goes:

In GSC, In Cherygrove City If you're in front of the pokemon center, there's a lake. But you can't get to that lake when you're playing normaly. Does anyone know what was going to be there?

IIMarckus
2nd July 2008, 1:08 AM
I'm not sure if anyone's asked this already, so, here it goes:

In GSC, In Cherygrove City If you're in front of the pokemon center, there's a lake. But you can't get to that lake when you're playing normaly. Does anyone know what was going to be there?There isn't anything there, and so far there seems to be no indication of anything out of the ordinary by it.

Chaos Rush
4th July 2008, 6:12 AM
Oh, and Jasmine's pokemon are stronger than Pryce because she only has the two. Just like with trainers, the less pokemon they have, the stronger they usually are. It's to counter-balance the fact she has barely any pokemon.
Actually, Jasmine & Pryce both have 3 Pokemon.

Jasmine:
Lv30 Magnemite
Lv30 Magnemite
Lv35 Steelix

Pryce:
Lv27 Seel
Lv29 Dewgong
Lv31 Piloswine

.:Alex:.
4th July 2008, 5:56 PM
Actually, Jasmine & Pryce both have 3 Pokemon.

Jasmine:
Lv30 Magnemite
Lv30 Magnemite
Lv35 Steelix

Pryce:
Lv27 Seel
Lv29 Dewgong
Lv31 Piloswine

Really? I could have sworn Pryce had four pokemon...

Rys
10th August 2008, 12:08 PM
I reckon these maps were probably the original designs for mahogany town and mt silver entrance either that or some kind of past or future world that celebi sends you to with its time traveling powers.

TorchicBlaziken
11th January 2009, 10:50 PM
I wish Beta Towns 2, 3, and 4 made it into the final version... Caves 4 and 5 make no sense. Cave 4 has NO warps, and Cave 5 has TOO MUCH warps!

Ecruteak
24th February 2009, 6:00 AM
OMG! i can remember picking up a magazine when i was young and my first ever glimpse of pokemon G/S was the trainer standing on the "Beta Town" bridge. I thought i was crazy for never finding that location.

RayquazaLv.X
8th October 2009, 2:30 AM
I looked on Goldmap 1.6,but I can't find the BETA maps.Can somebody tell me what's going on?

Dehydrated
8th October 2009, 3:42 AM
That Route to 'Mount Silver' is very confusing. o_O

Luna-kun
16th December 2010, 12:21 PM
beta mt.silver look really fine for me.

deoxysdude94
12th February 2011, 12:44 AM
I think beta town 3 was supposed to be Ecruteak city. Look at the shape of the tower, and it looks similar to the beta Ecruteak.

Skarm-Flier
7th May 2011, 9:27 PM
de en onkwo gii en GSC peda pada pda am

Translation : There are lots of glitch in GSC , not list en.........

AbbieA
12th July 2011, 9:03 AM
you can actually get to the PCC...http://www.serebii.net/crystal/pcc.shtml

Operate170
10th July 2013, 4:21 AM
I think that the 2nd strange picture is viridian forest, because that was not added to Kanto in G/S/C.

mack56key
28th May 2014, 11:48 AM
hey can found about the third tower in beta town 3.... If you found the ans so post here..

Chippy2000
25th December 2016, 3:21 AM
Strange Map 1 is the Demo Forest from Spaceworld '97. No doubt about it. From descriptions of the demo, you do apparently go through a forest before facing Silver at an entrance to a cave by a Pokemon Center. This fits the bill.

As for the 5 caves, all but one seem to have a bad tileset, or the tileset was rearranged at one point. Cave 5, in particular, seems to be from when the minecart was a thing. The path with the ladders appears to signify this. Maybe fool around with them a bit?

deoxysdude94
25th December 2016, 10:31 AM
I remember hearing they wanted a skateboard in GS, but it didn't make it to programming. Maybe Teru Sama was the skateboard?

On another note, here's a question I don't think anyone's asked... Assuming Kanto was limited due to space left on the cartridge, how much space does all this beta information take up? If they got rid of the beta files on the cartridge, could they have had space to expand kanto? Like, to add a safari zone, the cinnabar island, pewter museum, viridian forest...

Chippy2000
25th December 2016, 6:56 PM
TERU-SAMA is a number of items, with only 2 having any functionality at all. 06h is the Town Map from Pokemon Red and Blue, with only small functionality existing. 38h works as the Poke Flute. The TERU-SAMA were eventually reused to make new items in Pokemon Crystal, such as the GS Ball.

"If they got rid of the beta files on the cartridge, could they have had space to expand kanto? Like, to add a safari zone, the cinnabar island, pewter museum, viridian forest..."
The Safari Zone, does in fact, exist in Pokemon Gold. It's got unused, but fully functional warps, in Fuchsia City. Same place as before and all. It has a hallway as well, with no attendant or person in sight. You can enter the Safari Zone from here, but can't get out. I have personally managed to make this functional before (see signature).

Linking in with the Safari Zone, there are 2 other tables of Pokemon that can run away. They are as follows:

Table 1 (25% chance to flee a turn):
Eevee
Porygon
Togetic
Umbreon

Table 2 (50% chance to flee a turn):
Articuno
Zapdos
Moltres

Table 3 contains the Legendary Beasts, who have a 100% chance to flee. I believe that Table 1 could have been the start of the Safari Zone, but I am not entirely sure. One oddity here is that Espeon doesn't flee, as well as Baby Pokemon Evolutions.

Unused text relating to Pokemon eating and getting angry in the Safari Zone also exist. Eating starts at 10168A, and ends at 101695. Angry starts at 1016A1, and ends at 1016AB. In PokeText, this can be viewed in "Others 1" at Blocks 144 and 146.

As for Cinnabar Island, it is possible to restore it. It's just the Map Size that takes up space, not whatever space there is. With the space the maps have, you can restore Cinnabar. In fact, an unused palette for the Gym exists.

Pewter Museum isn't hard to restore either as long as you can make the Warps. To do this, you need to know the Bank and Map Number for it. Sadly, I don't know this myself.

Viridian Forest is a difficult one, but I don't think it would be that hard to do.

TCRF has more information here;
https://tcrf.net/Pokémon_Gold_and_Silver

Catstorm
13th February 2017, 2:52 AM
Recently while gathering resources for an article I am writing about the prerelease versions of Pokemon Gold and Silver, I came across a tweet from 2013 by user Katsu_Nagao about Honooguma (https://twitter.com/Katsu_Nagao/status/388880608748773376), the scrapped fire starter (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_unused_Pok%C3%A9mon_and_character_designs# Pok.C3.A9mon_designs) for Gen II.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BWWU2nDCIAAxdOn.jpg

The text in the tweet reads: "Commemorating XY's release: Honooguma."

While this may seem trivial, I believe that this is a real picture from Spaceworld 1997, the only time that Honooguma was available to play as a starter. Footage from this demo was extremely limited, and for years we only had eyewitness accounts of this early version.

A reverse Google Images search showed that no other versions of this photo exist on the Internet.
I have taken time to contact the tweet's author as they are still active, but they have not responded yet. For now I believe that this user covertly snapped this image of Honooguma while in line at the demo (or watching it as a bystander.)
Eyewitness accounts from various Japanese webpages also mention Honooguma's tail, which is not seen in the art we know, but is seen in this sprite.
The only thing that seems to set this image off as strange is the fact that Metapod's palette is orange. It is likely that the kiosks were running on a Super Game Boy, so the palette should be green, but I am unsure as to whether this makes the picture suspicious. Metapod's sprite also doesn't seem to match any of its other sprites from Gen 1 or 2.
The price above the kiosk reads 3500 yen, which is what eyewitness accounts reported as the estimated price for the game.



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4geeXOWAAIYQAG.jpg

I also have a comparison image of the kiosks for playing the demos. The kiosks appear to match the one seen in the picture.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4geaLtXUAAi2-0.jpg

This information has not really gotten out at all. I wanted to post it on a Pokemon website as my Twitter posts have not gotten much traction, nor has the original tweet of the Honooguma image.

Help with verifying or disproving this image would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for reading.

PannenkoekenNL
19th February 2017, 9:54 PM
Catstorm, I don't have more information but this is very interesting!

CartmanKusanagi
22nd February 2017, 11:06 AM
Nice find! I may be stretching here, but assuming the picture is legit (I'm being cautiously optimistic), and if this was running on Super Game Boy hardware, perhaps shinies were implemented as far back as the Spaceworld 1997 demo? That would explain why Metapod is orange. Both of the lifebars are also orange, so it's probably just an SGB palette.

With that said, I wonder why the original tweet never got much traction. I only found out about it when I looked at Gold and Silver's pre-release page on The Cutting Room Floor.

EDIT: I Google translated the replies to the original tweet. According to Katsu_Nagao himself, the photo was taken at the 7th Next Generation World Hobby Fair, held in January 1998. I'm guessing the demo there was identical to the Spaceworld one, since both events were held around the same timeframe.