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View Full Version : Watch Evangelion Episode 15 on Adult Swim anyone?



Asrialys
12th February 2006, 6:21 PM
HAHA! I watched NGE episode 15 on Adult Swim. Misato and Kahji were having a talk about Misato's decisions in life. This is the episode of the anniversary of Shinji's mother's death. I don't remember the exact lines, but I hope this is close:

Misato: I thought I could escape by devoting my life to defeating the Angels.
Kahji: That was your decision alone. You have no reason to apologize.
Misato: Don't *BEEEEEEEEP*

LOL That was probably the longest censor of a word I've ever heard. It was also the first censor I've heard from an anime (I wonder what Anime Network is like...?). I had to pull out my NGE DVDs to hear what she actually said. I cracked up after finding out the word. In case you're wondering it was an eight letter word that they bleeped.

Kanadian Kyuubi
12th February 2006, 8:57 PM
What was it? Shootme? Discogun? The B word that doesn't have to do with the female form of half of Poochyena's basings, but more the leavings of a Tauros?

Sempris
12th February 2006, 9:24 PM
I found it quite funny, actually. I've never heard of an anime with a line being bleeped out like that. XD

Haruka's Swimsuit
12th February 2006, 9:49 PM
In case you're wondering it was an eight letter word that they bleeped.

Reason #15 I wanted the Eva Perfect boxed set...

Kanadian Kyuubi
12th February 2006, 10:38 PM
So, the line was:

Don't B******* me, right?

Asrialys
12th February 2006, 10:54 PM
Yes. I left it a little more vague because this is Serebii ^_^; Although, there really aren't anymore bad words that are eight letters long.

Luke Groundwalker
12th February 2006, 10:59 PM
Of course "********" is going to be censored, it's one of those "words" that you can't say on TV...except for IFC.

HK
13th February 2006, 1:23 AM
Reason #15 I wanted the Eva Perfect boxed set...

Go for the Platinum Collection. Trust me, it isn't nowhere near as expensive, better picture and sound quality, and a has few redone lines that fit better.

Well, this was the episodes following the first 'mind-trip' that we see in the series... And it is just as bleak as well. We get to see two important moments about Mistao and Asuka that really define what turns their characters for the remainder of Evangelion. It also shows something vital about Gendou's character as well... Ah... in retrospect, this was a truly depressing episode.

I wonder if the movie, Neon Genesis Evangelion: The End of Evangelion, is actually going to be shown on Adult Swim once the twenty-six episodes finish their first run? It would make sense, and probably leave some of the more confused people (which should be like... everyone) with some answers once the last two episodes are shown. Then again, I worry about censoreship considering that the movie is rather... risqué in many ways.

Brock Harrison
13th February 2006, 1:35 AM
I'm one of the oddballs who prefers the original ending of the series...maybe because I'm a guy who enjoys a "happy" ending every once in a while (A little warped perhaps, but I'll take what I can get).

I'll have to admit, that edit was amusing because it felt so out of place. Personally, I think the best edits still lie with the record scratches from Samurai Champloo.

Mugen: What a load of...*wicka-wicka*...

Kanadian Kyuubi
13th February 2006, 1:41 AM
They air it late night, during a clearly labeled adult block, yet they still censor *DDR select noise*, now that's *We Drink Ritalin!*'n hilarious!

HK
13th February 2006, 2:09 AM
*WARNING: MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD. DON'T READ UNLESS YOU HAVE SEEN THE SERIES AND THE MOVIE(S) IN THEIR ENTIRETY.*


I'm one of the oddballs who prefers the original ending of the series...maybe because I'm a guy who enjoys a "happy" ending every once in a while (A little warped perhaps, but I'll take what I can get).

o___0

Dude, if anything, the ending of the movie was a happy ending. Yes, every single damn person in the world did die... but in turn, Shinji, who was nothing more than a self-defeating, depressed doll throughout the entire movie finally made a stand. He rejected what Complementation offered him, and at that point he had ultimately matured after being this broken down kid with no self-esteem that we saw in the entire series. Hell, even Yui's words with Fuyutski near the end of the movie proved that others who were subjected to Human Instrumentality (as well as other animals) can come back should they be able to find and accept themselves. Shinji and Asuka were merely the first ones back, and while there is nothing afterwards to show that others will return... there is still that hope.

Which leads me to say that those found the movie just horribly depressing didn't get the message, which was made even more prevelent in the final scene. We must face reality, and no matter how harsh it can be to us, we can overcome the hardships and 'find heaven anywhere' (something to the affect that Yui said). Also consider that even the most saddened, hopeless filled, lonely person is never truly alone and can understand and be understood and accepted by others once we see past our problems that make up who we are and accept them. That is evident, yet again, by the final scene in the movie. To be honest, I don't think that I have ever been more optimistic or grateful after seeing/reading any story as I have when I comprehended The End of Evangelion.

... Yes, I like Evangelion. It's my personal favorite anime and I go in-depth on it. So sue me.

On the topic itself, though, I wonder if there are going to be any edits other than language as the series progresses... Still thinking about how The End of Evangelion would be put out, because that would definitely not go unedited.

Locke Yggdrasill
13th February 2006, 2:14 AM
Heck, You should watch the TV version of "The Matrix, Reloaded". They say it all the time. o.o;

Luke Groundwalker
13th February 2006, 2:52 AM
They air it late night, during a clearly labeled adult block, yet they still censor *DDR select noise*, now that's *We Drink Ritalin!*'n hilarious!
Ugh! How many times do I have to say this, it's one of those "words" that are supposed to be censored on TV. Sometimes, "bullsh-t" isn't censored, though mostlly in movies (like Locke said about the Matrix: Reloaded). But mostlly, no matter what time the show airs, it's censored. Hell, watch Howard Stern on E!, that's an even more adult oriented program than anything on Adult Swim, and they still censor "bullsh-t" and "f-ck"

Asrialys
13th February 2006, 6:30 AM
heh, forgot about Samurai Champloo's disc scratches over certain words.

Kanadian Kyuubi
13th February 2006, 1:46 PM
Yeah, the art of censorship, sometimes people find the way they censor it to be more funnier than the bad word itself! <scratch!> <honk! honk!> <foghorn!> <dolphin noise> <Halhoo!>

SBaby
16th February 2006, 3:16 AM
The beep is f*** with. I don't know why the 'with' was beeped out, but whatever.

If you've seen End of Evangelion, you know they drop f-bombs occasionally in the show.

HK
16th February 2006, 3:39 AM
If you've seen End of Evangelion, you know they drop f-bombs occasionally in the show.

Only twice in the entire series... and both occasions were in The End of Evangelion. The dub version, too. :/ Meh, regardless, both were actually used at good times... particuarly the first time.

... Which reminds me... for those who have seen The End of Evangelion movie, and assuming that they will show the movie on AS, how the fuggin hell are they going to handle the hospital scene at the beginning?

Asrialys
16th February 2006, 8:26 AM
No one who hasn't seen it will know unless they look it up or visit forums on the movie. They'll go as far as Shinji shaking Asuka before cutting a minute or two to the next scene. I bet Adult Swim so wants to show it, but they know they won't be able to because it's still a kids network, late at night or not.

Kanadian Kyuubi
16th February 2006, 2:29 PM
but they know they won't be able to because it's still a kids network, late at night or not

Yes. This is also why people are mad that YTV got Ghost in the Shell! In an episode they edited a reflection of a porno in glasses. But then they completly skipped episode 10 (Jungle Cruise), just because the episode's content wouldn't be suitable at it's current time (midnight), so to make up for that; they had a Ghost in the Shell marathon on the 30th of December, episodes 4-6, then 10 at 1:30 am.

Jikkle
16th February 2006, 2:50 PM
I liked Eva but I felt that it was botched from episode 21 on. I'm not a person that needs or even likes a hold your hands everyone happy ending and it wasn't the overall message that I'm complaining about. The main problem I had is that the show had excellent character development and story pacing and than around episode 21 they completely rush everything and you have probably a good 12 episodes worth of story and character development material packed into 6 episodes. So the theme that is trying to be portrayed is somewhat lost because your characters are still undercooked. You just can't go from end of episode 24 to the beginning of episode 25 and expect people to figure out what's going on with the story. You would pretty much never know what happened if it wasn't for EoE. I would imagine if they had let Eva been a 36 episode show you would have nowhere near they compliants people had and you would have a perfect masterpiece of a show.

SBaby
16th February 2006, 6:19 PM
Only twice in the entire series... and both occasions were in The End of Evangelion. The dub version, too. :/ Meh, regardless, both were actually used at good times... particuarly the first time.

... Which reminds me... for those who have seen The End of Evangelion movie, and assuming that they will show the movie on AS, how the fuggin hell are they going to handle the hospital scene at the beginning?

As far as I know there aren't any plans to air DAR and EOE on Adult Swim. They're probably going to use the human instrumentality ending instead.

The reason is probably due to the length of EOE. The two parts are about 45 minutes each, and even if they edited the hospital scene, it'll still end up going way over on time.

It's ok though. It isn't really all that difficult to find those two movies (or volumes depending on how you look at it) for rent or sale. I do have to say I like EOE's ending better than the series' ending, even if neither of them make total sense.

And for Jikkie, I'll explain a few things. I had a feeling it wouldn't be long before this came up. EOE was designed as an alternate ending to the series to replace the last two episodes. It is NOT A CONTINUATION, as some people still think. The below will spoil the end of the series if you highlight it, so do so at your own risk.

As for Episodes 25 and 26 of the regular series, the reason they're confusing is because a little ways into Episode 25, Human Instrumentality begins. Those of you that are wondering, Episode 24 is the last of the Eva fighting we see in the normal series, as Human Instrumentality begins in Episode 25. In a nutshell, it's the idea of all human minds and souls coming together to form a single collective conscious. In Episode 25, you see a bit of how it affects the main cast, but in Episode 26 it's all about Shinji, as the narrative points out right in the episode. Basically part of Instrumentality is that the person in question chooses whether to remain an individual, or join the collective conscious. My take on this is that the success of Instrumentality requires two things. One is that all the Angels have to be destroyed. Two is that all humans have to join the collective for it to work. So we see Shinji sort of experimenting with different scenarios, with Rei, Asuka, and even alone. He goes through his Emo issues (anti-social attitude, depression, etc...) and even at one point thinks it might be better to 'dissappear' into the collective. Eventually he comes to the realization that no matter how bad his past is or how anti-social he is it's better to stay an individual than to be part of the collective. As such, he chooses to remain an individual and Instrumentality fails, probably saving humanity in the process. That's why the characters all show up congratulating Shinji at the end.

I won't go into detail about EOE here, since that took a bit out of me and I'd have to remember a DVD I saw 5 years ago, but EOE is definitely worth seeing, especially if you want the series to end with a climactic EVA battle.

HK
16th February 2006, 9:53 PM
No one who hasn't seen it will know unless they look it up or visit forums on the movie. They'll go as far as Shinji shaking Asuka before cutting a minute or two to the next scene. I bet Adult Swim so wants to show it, but they know they won't be able to because it's still a kids network, late at night or not.

Well, technically they are their own seperate network... but I can see your point. Honestly, though, it isn't so much as having sexual content and not showing it (i.e. like Misato and Kaji), but rather displaying something that is just plain disturbing to a helluva lot of people, whether they take it at face-value or understand the reasoning behind it.

That reminds me that there are going to be some upcoming episodes with some rather risqué content. It will be interesting to see how a lot of these episodes are handled. I certainly hope that what happened to Blue Gender won't continue with Evangelion, at least.


As far as I know there aren't any plans to air DAR and EOE on Adult Swim. They're probably going to use the human instrumentality ending instead.

Well, it's obvious that they are going to show the final two episodes since they are showing the entire series. But it isn't impossible for them to show the movie.


The reason is probably due to the length of EOE. The two parts are about 45 minutes each, and even if they edited the hospital scene, it'll still end up going way over on time.

I dunno, if they can devote time to show anime movies like they have in recent months then I don't know why they wouldn't show said movie.

Personally I think what it'll boil down to is perhaps not the content, nor the length of the movie, but the fact that it is Manga Entertainment who owns the rights to it, not ADV Films. ADV is showing Evangelion on AS to showcase it and get more interest and income for the live action movie. They wouldn't benefit as much if the movie were to be shown, and that would ultimately be a deicision by Manga Entertainment.


It's ok though. It isn't really all that difficult to find those two movies (or volumes depending on how you look at it) for rent or sale. I do have to say I like EOE's ending better than the series' ending, even if neither of them make total sense.

True, it isn't hard to find Death and Rebirth and The End of Evangelion at all at your local Blockbuster or somethin' if you live in the United States.

As for preference of endings, though, I prefer the movie over the television series by leagues. The ending... well, you know about that. As for the movie, we see more of a resolution with the characters, the plot is explained enough and what happened in the rest of the series ACTUALLY MATTERS, the animation is simply beautiful and was used to the full extent of the movie's budget, the musical score is phenomenal, and the final messages that are given towards the end and at the end of the movie are so simplistic yet emotional that I can't say that I have ever appreciated seeing anything end as much as I did then. Simply put, it is my favorite movie that I have ever seen, and this is coming from someone who has seen sci-fi classics such as 2001: A Space Odyssey, Blade Runner, and A Clockwork Orange.

It also helps when you do understand and can make sense out of it. :P


And for Jikkie, I'll explain a few things. I had a feeling it wouldn't be long before this came up. EOE was designed as an alternate ending to the series to replace the last two episodes. It is NOT A CONTINUATION, as some people still think. The below will spoil the end of the series if you highlight it, so do so at your own risk.

For further clarification, the final two episodes are more of an alternate ending than the movie was. Considering that the original script for the last two episodes were rejected for their mature content and a new ending had to be scrapped up quickly, not to mention the fact that the movie's version of episode twenty-five is based on what the original script for the episode of the television series, it is safe to say that the movie is the official ending.

You pretty much got everything in your analysis of the last two episodes, just to note, although it is still debated as to whether or not Shinji rejected or accepted Complementation at the end. My own personal take on it? Well, I'm still undecided myself, but I would lean more towards thinking that Shinji accepted Human Instrumentality at the end, due to the fact that even including Yui's words from EoE (that all humans can come back if they can imagine themselves in their hearts) as evidence for him seeing those who were already dead, we see Toji with all of his limbs intact when Shinji is congradulated by everyone. Rejecting Complementation didn't bring back lost limbs, that much I know.


I won't go into detail about EOE here, since that took a bit out of me and I'd have to remember a DVD I saw 5 years ago, but EOE is definitely worth seeing, especially if you want the series to end with a climactic EVA battle.

Said EVA battle is not only my personal favorite of the series, but of all anime.

And Jikkle, I consider Evangelion an imperfect masterpiece. Truthfully, there has never been a true masterpiece by the definition of perfection, simply because if it is made by man who is full of imperfections, than it can never fill up to those impossible expectations... And as far as the ending being rushed in the final few episodes, I believe that it just feels that way since the first half of Evangelion was more episodic.

... Whoo, it's turning into an Evangelion discussion right here. >_o

Akilah Imani
16th February 2006, 10:24 PM
Misato is starting to urk me more than Shinji -_- Episode 15 was okay, not anything big, but that's for later episodes ;D
Asuka might as well give up on Kahji (Curse her stupid, smitten, fourteen year old fantasies), she should be able to see by now that he's not interested or amused.

Typing this from memory. Correct me if I make any mistakes.

Asuka kicked *** in The End of Evangelion. I was hoping that she'd come out of her previous state. I love the way the movie was handled. In the beginning, just about everyone at NERV died (brutally might I add :)), Asuka's Unit 02 being viciously ripped apart, and Eva unit 01 rising from the remains of the destroyed NERV headquarters like a bat out of hell ready to devour its prey was just beautiful. The rest, I must admit, confused even me. I had to watch it about 4 times just to make some sense of it XD Then I had my revalation. Other than that, the first part I enjoyed, the second, despite its truthful and heartwarming message, killed it for me. Especially the live action.

I like this series. Not the best in my oppinion- the animation isn't always consistent and the characters aren't very deep and develop slowy- but it still is decent nonetheless. A lot better than some of the other mecha/sci-fi series out there >_>;

I'm going to miss Kahji.

Psycho

HK
16th February 2006, 11:24 PM
Whoa, Psycho, spoilers tags, man! You apparently know how to use them, so put them up for the third paragraph!


Misato is starting to urk me more than Shinji -_- Episode 15 was okay, not anything big, but that's for later episodes ;D

Well, Misato was as screwed up as the rest of them, including the EVA pilots, it is just that she was able to drown herself into a lifestyle to cover it up with more finesse.


Asuka might as well give up on Kahji (Curse her stupid, smitten, fourteen year old fantasies), she should be able to see by now that he's not interested or amused.

Come on, try to tell me that as a teenager you didn't/don't have fantasies of being together with an attractive, older person who seemed to (apparently) have themselves together. :/


I like this series. Not the best in my oppinion- the animation isn't always consistent and the characters aren't very deep and develop slowy- but it still is decent nonetheless. A lot better than some of the other mecha/sci-fi series out there >_>;

A lot of the later episodes were done on a restricted budget. And as far as the characters not being very deep and developing slowly, I would argue against that, and in fact I will... eventually.

Anyone else think that there should be a seperate Evangelion discussion thread considering the direction of the last few posts? :/

That Scary Clefairy
16th February 2006, 11:30 PM
I like to address one and only one thing for Eva. That is that I love Misato and only her in this series. When she got killed, I nearly went ballistic and almost killed my family.....(not really)

Akilah Imani
18th February 2006, 1:36 AM
Certain things in anime just annoy me. Like Shinji for example, he annoys the hell out of me at times.

Remember, this is coming from someone who only likes the series as any other anime, nothing more. I catagorize it with other standout animes, not in a league of its own :/ That's just me, but I respect how those of you who really do love this series feel, nonetheless. So just accept this as my humble oppinion, something which I will defend as much as you defend this series.

Whoa, Psycho, spoilers tags, man! You apparently know how to use them, so put them up for the third paragraph!



Well, Misato was as screwed up as the rest of them, including the EVA pilots, it is just that she was able to drown herself into a lifestyle to cover it up with more finesse.



Come on, try to tell me that as a teenager you didn't/don't have fantasies of being together with an attractive, older person who seemed to (apparently) have themselves together. :/



A lot of the later episodes were done on a restricted budget. And as far as the characters not being very deep and developing slowly, I would argue against that, and in fact I will... eventually.

Anyone else think that there should be a seperate Evangelion discussion thread considering the direction of the last few posts? :/

My fault. Got to happy about discussing the movie :/ Don't know why I missed that.

Asuka's crush just annoys me, period. Despite her fourteen year old hormones, she should at least get some hint and try to leave Kahji alone while he's working. It's not just the crush, it's how she acts and what she does-not the right time or place. That and I find those type of crushes and fantasies to be annoying-in any anime- even if I'm doing the crushing, but that's because I'm so misanthropic and a spoil sport. Its normal, yet annoying.

Let me clarify. I really do like Miasoto, she sticks out among the characters. Misato's just attitude annoys me because in the beginning she always told Shinji to "Have high hopes!" "Be happy!" "Put your past behind you and look to the future!" and "Everyone has something they regret in the past!" and blah blah blah, but then she goes into her own state of depression and those words disappear in the far distance, almost as if too sacred to be spoken by one who is painted with the stripes of iniquity. Saying and actually doing are two different things and hard to live without at least slipping up a couple of times. I get that. The fact that she moved on in life, had made something of herself, and didn't let her past hold her back is what made me respect her so much (and what made her standout). She's one of my favorite characters and I can understand her pain and not letting go, but one Shinji is enough -_- I just got annoyed by it, because the whole 'depressed attitude' does get annoying.

As for the animation, it really isn't groundbreaking, and I'm not just referring to the later episodes. It's pretty good (the Evas have a unique design for mechas), but there's better out there :)

Characters are all something that we have seen before. The depressed guy, the creepy girl, and the obnoxiously loud one. Nothing new, in my oppinion, or original. I've seen a lot of animes, some make Evangelion look like the greatest thing ever, whereas others make it stand just above average.

And an argument isn't good, I'd much rather discuss in an intelligent matter wouldn't you? ;D

Psycho

HK
18th February 2006, 6:16 AM
Ah, screw it. I'm just going with the flow of the thread and should a mod step in and say otherwise... well, I'm sure that you understand.


I like to address one and only one thing for Eva. That is that I love Misato and only her in this series. When she got killed, I nearly went ballistic and almost killed my family.....(not really)

Always an amusing AIM conversation, eh? ;)


Certain things in anime just annoy me. Like Shinji for example, he annoys the hell out of me at times.

In my initial viewing, I can say the same. In restrospect, however, I can't say that I can fault Shinji for how he feels and acts (hell, even in the movie to a certain extent).

Realistically, consider that a lot of us are defeatists -- simply put, we create our own hell. Truthfully there wasn't any particular event that causes Shinji a true trauma and reasoning behind who and what he is, save for seeing his own mother being absorbed into an EVA when he was just a small kid, which he seemed to uncounsciously repress. But again, consider that a lot of the crap that goes in someone's life who is in a position to make it better is caused by the person experiencing the hardships in the first place. All that Shinji needed was someone, anyone, truthfully, to be able to put his trust and love in and receive it in return (corny, I know, but a prevelent theme in both Shinji's character and the series itself).

Interestingly enough, a lot of the people who claim that Shinji is a wimp would do no better, even worse if placed in the situations that he were in. Hell, I can't confidently say that I would, either.


Remember, this is coming from someone who only likes the series as any other anime, nothing more. I catagorize it with other standout animes, not in a league of its own :/ That's just me, but I respect how those of you who really do love this series feel, nonetheless. So just accept this as my humble oppinion, something which I will defend as much as you defend this series.

Don't confuse me with a fanboy who proclaims that Evangelion is sheer, uncontested genius, because it isn't. It has flaws like everything else. To me, I admire the series because of the psychological and emotional backing behind it, as well as what the final messages were at the end of the it all (both the televisions series and the movie, the latter of which being more coherent). While this might not cause others to become giddy over those aspects, it is something to maul over.


My fault. Got to happy about discussing the movie :/ Don't know why I missed that.

We all make mistakes. Yes, including me, if that's believable.


Asuka's crush just annoys me, period. Despite her fourteen year old hormones, she should at least get some hint and try to leave Kahji alone while he's working. It's not just the crush, it's how she acts and what she does-not the right time or place. That and I find those type of crushes and fantasies to be annoying-in any anime- even if I'm doing the crushing, but that's because I'm so misanthropic and a spoil sport. Its normal, yet annoying.

Your final sentence sums it up right there, as in any case with infatuations over older men/women by young guys/girls (in reverse order in terms of whom the crush is being directed to, typically). An ideal person appeals to us, even if we cannot have them for ourselves. Same situation here.


Let me clarify. I really do like Miasoto, she sticks out among the characters. Misato's just attitude annoys me because in the beginning she always told Shinji to "Have high hopes!" "Be happy!" "Put your past behind you and look to the future!" and "Everyone has something they regret in the past!" and blah blah blah,

Optimism is annoying? Well, I merit that it can be... although, hell, after watching the series and the movie in their entirety and to compare some aspects to real life... I find that it would be of a smarter choice to be an optimist. Unlike some others, I wasn't affected in my values and beliefs about others after watching, but I'll be damned if it didn't make me appreciate free-will, individuality, and the future more than I had realized before.


but then she goes into her own state of depression and those words disappear in the far distance, almost as if too sacred to be spoken by one who is painted with the stripes of iniquity. Saying and actually doing are two different things and hard to live without at least slipping up a couple of times. I get that. The fact that she moved on in life, had made something of herself, and didn't let her past hold her back is what made me respect her so much (and what made her standout). She's one of my favorite characters and I can understand her pain and not letting go, but one Shinji is enough -_- I just got annoyed by it, because the whole 'depressed attitude' does get annoying.

If you get right down to it, while the causes might differ, depression is essentially the same for all those who are victims to it. How they go about either hiding it up or not is important, though. Misato did immerse and become successful... however, just because she achieved that does not mean that it eliminated her past and the scars (pun not intended) that left on her.

Besides, we all have some sort of double-standard in what we say and what we actually do, no? I am aware of a helluva lot of my faults; the problem is that I do little to overcome them. Then again, we could get into the whole debate of whether awareness of one's weakness and not doing anything about them is better than to be ignorant of them... Argh, damn it, thought that I was going to get that fuggin philosophical here.


As for the animation, it really isn't groundbreaking, and I'm not just referring to the later episodes. It's pretty good (the Evas have a unique design for mechas), but there's better out there :)

I don't really ever consider the animation amazing, save for what was done in the movie. In fact, I don't ever think that I ever said that. >_o


Characters are all something that we have seen before. The depressed guy, the creepy girl, and the obnoxiously loud one. Nothing new, in my oppinion, or original. I've seen a lot of animes, some make Evangelion look like the greatest thing ever, whereas others make it stand just above average.

Ah, I've seen this point brought up before. It would be blatant ignorance to deny the archetypes used in Evangelion, let alone most story-telling in all art forms all together. What makes Evangelion unique is the fact that Anno thrives of using the archetypes, developing them well and realistically, and in turn exectutes them to display different problems that you will encounter with a human.


And an argument isn't good, I'd much rather discuss in an intelligent matter wouldn't you? ;D

I believe that is what we are currently doing, unless you claim that either intelligence involved (or both) is not very smart at all... Are you calling me a *******? ;P

Akilah Imani
18th February 2006, 3:33 PM
Ah, screw it. I'm just going with the flow of the thread and should a mod step in and say otherwise... well, I'm sure that you understand.
Well, alright! Let's see how far we can get before either of us grows bored.


In my initial viewing, I can say the same. In restrospect, however, I can't say that I can fault Shinji for how he feels and acts (hell, even in the movie to a certain extent).

Realistically, consider that a lot of us are defeatists -- simply put, we create our own hell. Truthfully there wasn't any particular event that causes Shinji a true trauma and reasoning behind who and what he is, save for seeing his own mother being absorbed into an EVA when he was just a small kid, which he seemed to uncounsciously repress. But again, consider that a lot of the crap that goes in someone's life who is in a position to make it better is caused by the person experiencing the hardships in the first place. All that Shinji needed was someone, anyone, truthfully, to be able to put his trust and love in and receive it in return (corny, I know, but a prevelent theme in both Shinji's character and the series itself).

Interestingly enough, a lot of the people who claim that Shinji is a wimp would do no better, even worse if placed in the situations that he were in. Hell, I can't confidently say that I would, either.

That's what kills me -_- He's having his own pitty party and not doing anything to aid his current situation. I don't see Shinji as a wimp, as a matter of fact, if you at look at it from a different perspective, he's actually strong for someone his age to be dealing with such adult situations. The fact that there are actually others who care about him and try to reach out to him while he just sits there all mopey without even caring annoys the hell out of me. Its the way he reacts, at first, sure he does make some develop, but not enough for my tastes. He's getting a little depressed over something that's not really worth being all that depressed over-like Misato, her situation is way worst. Contrast to it being portrayed as in real life, I hate those kind of attitudes period. See? Told that I was misanthropic.

I can't beat the guy up to much, though. I wouldn't get within 100 feet of one of those Evas, let alone pilot one.


Don't confuse me with a fanboy who proclaims that Evangelion is sheer, uncontested genius, because it isn't. It has flaws like everything else. To me, I admire the series because of the psychological and emotional backing behind it, as well as what the final messages were at the end of the it all (both the televisions series and the movie, the latter of which being more coherent). While this might not cause others to become giddy over those aspects, it is something to maul over.
Agreed. Which is why I consider it one of the standout animes and place it above average. The plot is deep and enriching and story is something to admire-despite how I may feel about everything else.


We all make mistakes. Yes, including me, if that's believable.
*gasp*


Your final sentence sums it up right there, as in any case with infatuations over older men/women by young guys/girls (in reverse order in terms of whom the crush is being directed to, typically). An ideal person appeals to us, even if we cannot have them for ourselves. Same situation here.
Which just makes it annoying, because it reminds you so much of real life-which is just as annoying :P


Optimism is annoying? Well, I merit that it can be... although, hell, after watching the series and the movie in their entirety and to compare some aspects to real life... I find that it would be of a smarter choice to be an optimist. Unlike some others, I wasn't affected in my values and beliefs about others after watching, but I'll be damned if it didn't make me appreciate free-will, individuality, and the future more than I had realized before.
Oh, no, no no, let me clarify. Her optimism is what makes me like her so much. The whole double standard and mopiness is what sickens me. She's such a strong character and great asset to the series, someone whom one would tend to lookup to if they had a similar situation. What she did is actually portrayed with great accuracy. When one keeps things bottled up over time and never addresses that which lurks in the closet of their past, those things tend to have an ugly way of making their present known. The fact that she still tried to hold it all together and be an inspiration to others is what gained my respect for her.

Damn. I sound like I actually know her and she lives right down the street from me -_- Remember, Psycho, this is an anime, just an anime.


If you get right down to it, while the causes might differ, depression is essentially the same for all those who are victims to it. How they go about either hiding it up or not is important, though. Misato did immerse and become successful... however, just because she achieved that does not mean that it eliminated her past and the scars (pun not intended) that left on her.

Besides, we all have some sort of double-standard in what we say and what we actually do, no? I am aware of a helluva lot of my faults; the problem is that I do little to overcome them. Then again, we could get into the whole debate of whether awareness of one's weakness and not doing anything about them is better than to be ignorant of them... Argh, damn it, thought that I was going to get that fuggin philosophical here.
Agreed. Annoying as it may be its life. Come to think of it, that's probably why I find it annoying, because in real life it can be a real *****. I find that when life is portrayed in a truthful manner and I can actually relate to be annoying, yet interesting at the same time.


I don't really ever consider the animation amazing, save for what was done in the movie. In fact, I don't ever think that I ever said that. >_o
No I said that :P
I wasn't really referring to you, just the way that people tend to react. Evangelion does have some good art for the time that it was produced in, but it isn't the best. People need to learn to expand their territory and see what else is out there, before they just make up their minds on one anime.

The movie's animation kicked arse. Yeab, that about sums it up.



Ah, I've seen this point brought up before. It would be blatant ignorance to deny the archetypes used in Evangelion, let alone most story-telling in all art forms all together. What makes Evangelion unique is the fact that Anno thrives of using the archetypes, developing them well and realistically, and in turn exectutes them to display different problems that you will encounter with a human.
I really, don't have response, because we're each entitled to our own oppinions of the characters. That, and this post is getting long enough, I'm to fecking lazy to even type -_-



I believe that is what we are currently doing, unless you claim that either intelligence involved (or both) is not very smart at all... Are you calling me a *******? ;P
Yes, why yes am I :) But as they say Kansas: "Takes one to know one!"

Psycho

HK
18th February 2006, 6:21 PM
Well, alright! Let's see how far we can get before either of us grows bored.

Well, if you have the patience to put up with it, I could go on for many pages. Before I "retired" from the debate section here at SPPF, I was a constant returnee there and people at least recognized my name (some still might, although that just might be my pride getting in there).

I do warn you, though, that my posts can get pretty damn long and in-depth. Hope that you can keep up.


That's what kills me -_- He's having his own pitty party and not doing anything to aid his current situation. I don't see Shinji as a wimp, as a matter of fact, if you at look at it from a different perspective, he's actually strong for someone his age to be dealing with such adult situations. The fact that there are actually others who care about him and try to reach out to him while he just sits there all mopey without even caring annoys the hell out of me. Its the way he reacts, at first, sure he does make some develop, but not enough for my tastes. He's getting a little depressed over something that's not really worth being all that depressed over-like Misato, her situation is way worst. Contrast to it being portrayed as in real life, I hate those kind of attitudes period. See? Told that I was misanthropic.

We all have our form of angst, and this is more common with teenagers. Hell, that's probably why I got so much out of it since I'm a teenager. That's also why I can empathize with him to a certain extent, and just accepting others' mistakes is a bit easier to me since I know that I have so many of my own.

Alright, back on the subject, look at Shinji. Has the kid ever been beaten, raped, starving, homeless, or anything other traumatic situation that you may call upon? No. The main problem with him is neglect, plain and simple.

Look at those around him. How many can you honestly say care about him and try to reach out to him? Before he went to Tokyo-Three, he was living with his teacher, and that was about it. There is no indication that anyone tried to help him out. Now look at his surroundings after he becomes an EVA pilot. His father? Ha, he's arguably the biggest reason why Shinji acts like he does in the first place. The NERV staff? Not really, more or less just on a need to know basis. Kaji? Shinji never talked to him much, but for what it is worth, whenever he did Kaji did steer him in the right direction. His friends at school? Well, Toji and Kensuke do help him out in terms of Shinji's lack of social interaction, but they never really go out of their way to console him, save for one instance early on which was minuscule at best.

Finally, observe the ones who create the biggest impact on him. Rei? She's too distant from others for the majority of the series to know how to help out others, and throughout she only has a connection to Gendo, then in turn realizes that her feelings and views change to Shinji, but this was... well, just before she died. Asuka? She does bring out a somewhat competitive side in Shinji, and in her own odd way tries to connect with him, but fails to do so because her pride gets in the way, and episodes fifteen and sixteen start to show where Asuka goes from wanting to trust Shinji to having her feelings and pride betrayed by him. Misato? She is probably the one who attempts to hardest to aid Shinji, and the one who comes to closest to doing so... however, Shinji feels betrayed by her in the final episodes and because of that, the former progress is gone.

To sum it all up, while Shinji could've been able to make things better for himself... he had very few people who could bring that out in him, and they were only a part of his life for a short while.


I can't beat the guy up to much, though. I wouldn't get within 100 feet of one of those Evas, let alone pilot one.

I'd probably be like Kensuke at first, then when I actually saw it in battle I would be the guy screaming out, "HOLY SH*T!"


Agreed. Which is why I consider it one of the standout animes and place it above average. The plot is deep and enriching and story is something to admire-despite how I may feel about everything else.

Problem is that a fair share of people believe that it is commentary on religion, which couldn't be farther from the truth. It was never meant to do that, and it never did. Religion is the frosting on the cake, and the subject of the human condition (in the style of Freud and Jung) is... the cake.


*gasp*

Amazing, I know. Why, just the other day I told my friend Erik this. He hit me and I hit him back. Dunno why he did that, though...


Which just makes it annoying, because it reminds you so much of real life-which is just as annoying :P

Evangelion reminds a lot of people about themselves and society when they watch it, and like Shinji, Asuka, and Misato, they can't stand it when they see others' mistakes and short-comings because they remind them of themselves. ;)


Oh, no, no no, let me clarify. Her optimism is what makes me like her so much. The whole double standard and mopiness is what sickens me. She's such a strong character and great asset to the series, someone whom one would tend to lookup to if they had a similar situation. What she did is actually portrayed with great accuracy. When one keeps things bottled up over time and never addresses that which lurks in the closet of their past, those things tend to have an ugly way of making their present known. The fact that she still tried to hold it all together and be an inspiration to others is what gained my respect for her.

Her hypocrisy is what completes her character, though. Think of it that for every positive attribute that we have, there is a negative one to balance it out. And out of the entire cast, I would have to say that Misato is the one who is hurt the most by specific events, while in contrast Shinji is the one hurt by just a life of neglect.


Damn. I sound like I actually know her and she lives right down the street from me -_- Remember, Psycho, this is an anime, just an anime.

We all know that they aren't real. 'Sides, most of the time when talking about anime characters, movie character, novel characters, etc. we refer to them as a real person. And in the case with Evangelion it is more fitting since the majority of the cast represent a different side of Anno.

Plus, I'll admit to having the geek-side of me being occasionally brought out when talking about anime and manga. Everyone single one of us has that side to us, after all. Sometimes just show it more than others.


Agreed. Annoying as it may be its life. Come to think of it, that's probably why I find it annoying, because in real life it can be a real *****. I find that when life is portrayed in a truthful manner and I can actually relate to be annoying, yet interesting at the same time.

That's one of the main appeals of Evangelion, after all.


No I said that :P
I wasn't really referring to you, just the way that people tend to react. Evangelion does have some good art for the time that it was produced in, but it isn't the best. People need to learn to expand their territory and see what else is out there, before they just make up their minds on one anime.

The movie's animation kicked arse. Yeab, that about sums it up.

Maybe it is that I've only seen some more mature viewers of Evangelion on the Internet, but it is rare for me to see anyone claiming that the series had great animation. In fact, it was down right awful sometimes, and the stock footage... ugh. Sometimes it made me impatient, sometimes it made me annoyed, sometimes it made me feel suspenseful, and others it just plain freaked me out (see episode... nineteen, I believe, for details).


I really, don't have response, because we're each entitled to our own oppinions of the characters. That, and this post is getting long enough, I'm to fecking lazy to even type -_-

True, but it is interesting to share your views on the characters. :P And you think that your post is long? I wonder what you would consider mine, then.


Yes, why yes am I :) But as they say Kansas: "Takes one to know one!"

Indeed.

Akilah Imani
18th February 2006, 7:16 PM
Well, if you have the patience to put up with it, I could go on for many pages. Before I "retired" from the debate section here at SPPF, I was a constant returnee there and people at least recognized my name (some still might, although that just might be my pride getting in there).

I do warn you, though, that my posts can get pretty damn long and in-depth. Hope that you can keep up.
Don't worry I'm not paying attention.


We all have our form of angst, and this is more common with teenagers. Hell, that's probably why I got so much out of it since I'm a teenager. That's also why I can empathize with him to a certain extent, and just accepting others' mistakes is a bit easier to me since I know that I have so many of my own.
Agreed.


Alright, back on the subject, look at Shinji. Has the kid ever been beaten, raped, starving, homeless, or anything other traumatic situation that you may call upon? No. The main problem with him is neglect, plain and simple.

Look at those around him. How many can you honestly say care about him and try to reach out to him? Before he went to Tokyo-Three, he was living with his teacher, and that was about it. There is no indication that anyone tried to help him out. Now look at his surroundings after he becomes an EVA pilot. His father? Ha, he's arguably the biggest reason why Shinji acts like he does in the first place. The NERV staff? Not really, more or less just on a need to know basis. Kaji? Shinji never talked to him much, but for what it is worth, whenever he did Kaji did steer him in the right direction. His friends at school? Well, Toji and Kensuke do help him out in terms of Shinji's lack of social interaction, but they never really go out of their way to console him, save for one instance early on which was minuscule at best.

Finally, observe the ones who create the biggest impact on him. Rei? She's too distant from others for the majority of the series to know how to help out others, and throughout she only has a connection to Gendo, then in turn realizes that her feelings and views change to Shinji, but this was... well, just before she died. Asuka? She does bring out a somewhat competitive side in Shinji, and in her own odd way tries to connect with him, but fails to do so because her pride gets in the way, and episodes fifteen and sixteen start to show where Asuka goes from wanting to trust Shinji to having her feelings and pride betrayed by him. Misato? She is probably the one who attempts to hardest to aid Shinji, and the one who comes to closest to doing so... however, Shinji feels betrayed by her in the final episodes and because of that, the former progress is gone.

To sum it all up, while Shinji could've been able to make things better for himself... he had very few people who could bring that out in him, and they were only a part of his life for a short while.
Agreed. Yet, others can't help those who refuse to help themselves. Shinji had the ability to get out of his hell-hole of a life, but he didn't.

It depends on your tastes and who you are. Some characters will appeal to you whereas others won't. Sadly (well not really), Shinji does not appeal to me. I tried to like him, but it just didn't work out.

What will the kids say about this >_>


I'd probably be like Kensuke at first, then when I actually saw it in battle I would be the guy screaming out, "HOLY SH*T!"
You seem like the type :3


Problem is that a fair share of people believe that it is commentary on religion, which couldn't be farther from the truth. It was never meant to do that, and it never did. Religion is the frosting on the cake, and the subject of the human condition (in the style of Freud and Jung) is... the cake.
I can see the imagery, but no commentary -_- Religion just makes the story a little more indepth and adds interest, just as the whole mech and undergound city theme does.

And cake tastes good.


Amazing, I know. Why, just the other day I told my friend Erik this. He hit me and I hit him back. Dunno why he did that, though...
He was just as amazed as I O_O


Evangelion reminds a lot of people about themselves and society when they watch it, and like Shinji, Asuka, and Misato, they can't stand it when they see others' mistakes and short-comings because they remind them of themselves. ;)
And there you have the source of some of my annoyance. The rest just comes from my different preferences within anime. Some things appeal to my senses and others just turn me off completely.


Her hypocrisy is what completes her character, though. Think of it that for every positive attribute that we have, there is a negative one to balance it out. And out of the entire cast, I would have to say that Misato is the one who is hurt the most by specific events, while in contrast Shinji is the one hurt by just a life of neglect.
Agreed. If she were always perky and had no problems then she wouldn't be too realistic and people wouldn't be able to relate.


We all know that they aren't real. 'Sides, most of the time when talking about anime characters, movie character, novel characters, etc. we refer to them as a real person. And in the case with Evangelion it is more fitting since the majority of the cast represent a different side of Anno.
Plus, I'll admit to having the geek-side of me being occasionally brought out when talking about anime and manga. Everyone single one of us has that side to us, after all. Sometimes just show it more than others.
Did I mention that I have Misato's number on speed dial as well?


Maybe it is that I've only seen some more mature viewers of Evangelion on the Internet, but it is rare for me to see anyone claiming that the series had great animation. In fact, it was down right awful sometimes, and the stock footage... ugh. Sometimes it made me impatient, sometimes it made me annoyed, sometimes it made me feel suspenseful, and others it just plain freaked me out (see episode... nineteen, I believe, for details).
You have your 'OMG! This is the best anime ever!' fans and you have you 'newbs to anime' fans. The only thing that does justice to the animation is the EVAs, in my oppinion.


True, but it is interesting to share your views on the characters. :P And you think that your post is long? I wonder what you would consider mine, then.
Yours is a book report. The only reason why I say that my post is long is because I'm lazy :s Typing two paragraphs is enough to exhaust me.

Psycho

HK
18th February 2006, 8:21 PM
Don't worry I'm not paying attention.

Then why are you continuing to reply? ;)


Agreed.

Teenage angst is fun, and yet annoying. It can be done greatly, or done horribly.


Agreed. Yet, others can't help those who refuse to help themselves. Shinji had the ability to get out of his hell-hole of a life, but he didn't.

Thing is that Shinji, like a lot of people, is dependent on having others have help out through damn-near the entire series. Like you and I stated, he could've gotten out of it, but he didn't. However, what did he have to help him out of it? He didn't have a close relationship with hardly anyone, and those who did he knew for a short period of time compared to others and in the end he lost a connection to them. Rei was too detached from others to begin with to become close to him, Asuka was too prideful to become close to him, and Misato couldn't hold everything together to become close to him. Shinji needed an incentive and he never got it.

I fault Shinji for not having the courage to not mature, accept, and love who he was (until the very end), but for the reasons as to why he is like he is and why he remains as such... I would be a hypocrite to ridicule him.


It depends on your tastes and who you are. Some characters will appeal to you whereas others won't. Sadly (well not really), Shinji does not appeal to me. I tried to like him, but it just didn't work out.

I don't particuarly like Shinji as a character, per say, but I admire him and find him to be one of the most interesting characters that I have ever seen, whether it be in anime/manga, movies, novels, etc. If you don't like somebody, then don't force yourself to like them. Always what I have believed.


What will the kids say about this >_>

Good question. Anybody here reading this who hasn't been scared away by the lengthy posts and still reading this seen Evangelion and is under thirteen?


You seem like the type :3

Indeed.


I can see the imagery, but no commentary -_- Religion just makes the story a little more indepth and adds interest, just as the whole mech and undergound city theme does.

Religion, mechas, hot girls and an apocolyptic future are all just fan service to appeal to the masses. What really matters is the characters and the human condition... which is ironic coming from me since I feel that the series as a story was raped in the final two episodes, save for the look at the alternate universe in episode twenty-six.


And cake tastes good.

Some cake is, some cake isn't.


He was just as amazed as I O_O

'Cept his expression was more like, "Are you stupid?!"


And there you have the source of some of my annoyance. The rest just comes from my different preferences within anime. Some things appeal to my senses and others just turn me off completely.

I'm addicted to psychology and philosophy. They're like a drugs to me. Because of that, I love series and movies such as Neon Genesis Evangelion, Homunculus, Blade Runner, and A Clockwork Orange.


Agreed. If she were always perky and had no problems then she wouldn't be too realistic and people wouldn't be able to relate.

Lol, "realism = t3h aw3s0m3n3$$!!1111"


Did I mention that I have Misato's number on speed dial as well?

Point in case. Let's not forget that I stole both Asuka's yellow dress (mmm... anime-sexy) and Gendo's glasses (t3h pimp glasses, you must admit).


You have your 'OMG! This is the best anime ever!' fans and you have you 'newbs to anime' fans. The only thing that does justice to the animation is the EVAs, in my oppinion.

So where the hell does that place me? And as far as animation goes, that is one thing that I like about it -- all of the EVA series moves rigidly like a robot, and yet seemlessly like a human.


Yours is a book report. The only reason why I say that my post is long is because I'm lazy :s Typing two paragraphs is enough to exhaust me.

Naw, mine's an analysis and a helluva long essay. I love to ramble on, if ya haven't noticed by now.

Kanadian Kyuubi
18th February 2006, 9:38 PM
Whoo, it's turning into an Evangelion discussion right here. >_o
*Oooh, time for Ninetailed-Foxy-Woxy to serve pudding and pie!*

Okay, at the rate this thread is going, I'd better make an offical Eva thread and have a mod merge all the non-censorship related posts merged into it.

Akilah Imani
18th February 2006, 10:01 PM
Then why are you continuing to reply? ;)
O_O I don't know...


Teenage angst is fun, and yet annoying. It can be done greatly, or done horribly.

Thing is that Shinji, like a lot of people, is dependent on having others have help out through damn-near the entire series. Like you and I stated, he could've gotten out of it, but he didn't. However, what did he have to help him out of it? He didn't have a close relationship with hardly anyone, and those who did he knew for a short period of time compared to others and in the end he lost a connection to them. Rei was too detached from others to begin with to become close to him, Asuka was too prideful to become close to him, and Misato couldn't hold everything together to become close to him. Shinji needed an incentive and he never got it.

I fault Shinji for not having the courage to not mature, accept, and love who he was (until the very end), but for the reasons as to why he is like he is and why he remains as such... I would be a hypocrite to ridicule him.

I don't particuarly like Shinji as a character, per say, but I admire him and find him to be one of the most interesting characters that I have ever seen, whether it be in anime/manga, movies, novels, etc. If you don't like somebody, then don't force yourself to like them. Always what I have believed.
We both seem to have reached a point of agreement, I think
Neglection is one of those situations where you don't exactly have a light to guide through the darkness, and you're to afraid to let others close for fear they'll dessert you again. Fear mixed with depression.

1 r t3|-| p5yc|-|0106157 700!!!!! LOL


Good question. Anybody here reading this who hasn't been scared away by the lengthy posts and still reading this seen Evangelion and is under thirteen?
*looks around* Anyone under thirteen even get the basic plot and theme of Evangelion, besides the fact that it has violence, mechs, and naked girls?


Religion, mechas, hot girls and an apocolyptic future are all just fan service to appeal to the masses. What really matters is the characters and the human condition... which is ironic coming from me since I feel that the series as a story was raped in the final two episodes, save for the look at the alternate universe in episode twenty-six.
I've noticed that a lot of people didn't like those episodes :/


Some cake is, some cake isn't.
Are you insulting cake?


I'm addicted to psychology and philosophy. They're like a drugs to me. Because of that, I love series and movies such as Neon Genesis Evangelion, Homunculus, Blade Runner, and A Clockwork Orange.
<3 Death Note, Trigun, Area 81, and FMA.


So where the hell does that place me? And as far as animation goes, that is one thing that I like about it -- all of the EVA series moves rigidly like a robot, and yet seemlessly like a human.
You'd fall in, the 'fan' catagory. Not to obsessed and not to newbish.



Naw, mine's an analysis and a helluva long essay. I love to ramble on, if ya haven't noticed by now.
I like to cut to the point and make it well-informed, yet short. Although at times it may not be clear.

I think that we basically agree on everything Hellkorn 8D It just took a while (and a couple of long posts) for us to realize that.

Psycho