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Locke Yggdrasill
18th February 2006, 2:21 AM
Er...I've been wondering about this for some time. I've noticed that some moderators have become inactive, and I was wondering how long it you to realize that they are gone, and perhaps demod them and mod someone else. Two of the type of mods I'm referring to are Elite Dragon Trainer and Murgatroyd.
In my 8+ months of being here, I've not once seen a moderation done by Elite Dragon Trainer. And (s)he's been inactive since the 19th of January.
Murgatroyd's internet connection couldn't have died, due to the fact that he was last active here on the 29th of January, I believe, and last active at Bulbagarden on the 15th of February.

SlimShady
18th February 2006, 2:32 AM
When Serebii notices that they are neglecting their jobs and is fed up, that's what I think.

Akilah Imani
18th February 2006, 2:38 AM
I think that he should have noticed by now. Other than that he has his own reasons...whatever the hell they are -_-

But good question. Let's see what kind of wonderful answer we shall get (or if we'll get one period).

Psycho

PLANES CURE TOWERS
18th February 2006, 2:44 AM
I think that he should have noticed by now. Other than that he has his own reasons...whatever the hell they are -_-
Sheer Laziness.

-Josh

Akilah Imani
18th February 2006, 2:46 AM
Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

Wonder how long till the 'Serebii Fan Club' shows up to defend Joe :/

I need some entertainment.

Psycho

Eszett
18th February 2006, 3:01 AM
Moreover, I would like to know about the mods that visit semi-occasionally but don't seem to do much. In particular, I am thinking of Jasmine, SapphireDewgong, and other such mods. I see them on every once in a while, but they hardly ever make any visible changes.

Also, I notice a fair number of chat regulars who are modded here but don't do much with their modship status here. Pardon me, but shouldn't we be giving those chat members who achieve excellence there op status in the chatroom while giving members that achieve excellence here moderator status? I don't quite understand how being a chat mogul warrants a modship.

I smell the thick stench of the mod debates on the horizon.

Locke Yggdrasill
18th February 2006, 3:06 AM
My thought pattern follows Eszett's. eight dee.

Ohtachi
18th February 2006, 3:14 AM
Maybe when Serebii moderates alot of members again. I don't think he wants too many so he might demod some inactive accounts at that time. But then again these inactive mods might be undercoverly helping the site out like some of the Admins. I don't know whether you know this or not.

Locke Yggdrasill
18th February 2006, 3:15 AM
But helping out on the site is no reason to be modded. :<

Ohtachi
18th February 2006, 3:16 AM
Well some Admins were only Adminned because they help out with the site. :/

Locke Yggdrasill
18th February 2006, 3:18 AM
Er...not really. People write guides for the site, and Joe puts them up on the site. I've never once seen someone besides Joe update the site, and I recall one time that Joe went on a rant that if he let someone besides himself help out with his site, they'd mess it up. Thus, Admins don't work on the site. Ricocheting manages the server, IIRC. But I believe that's as close as admins get to the site.

Ohtachi
18th February 2006, 3:20 AM
I didn't say update the site. I said help. As in managing the server, writing guides, and supplying information on upcoming Pokemon games, movies, etc. Some Members are specifically modded for this. Which doesn't seem right, but I don't really care so much.

Locke Yggdrasill
18th February 2006, 3:29 AM
I know. But do you ever see "Well, *insert admin name here* has done *insert action name here*." on the front page? :<
And, help ≈ updating, etc.
Also, your, mine, and Eszett's logic are the same thing, when it comes to modding, it would appear.

Ethereal
18th February 2006, 3:36 AM
I've been wondering this, too. Coolcatfish is only a Mod+ because he's like, Joe's best friend. What kind of crap is that? Based on that logic, I should mod music, because music's the most important "thing" in my life.

But, that's not what the topic's asking. My point is that why isn't he demodded? He does nothing, hasn't been on in ages, and is but one of the many staff members that are just wasting e-space. There's no real reason that they're still modded, other than Joe not really giving a damn.

GoldenNoctowl77. Rofl.

Ohtachi
18th February 2006, 3:37 AM
it would appear.

Yeah, I know. But Joe does give credit to the info suppliers and the guide writers. Just gotta look. If my theory is true, then thses mods should be able to update the site without being modded. Aren't half of the people that contribute to the site mods? Are some of them inactive? I think so. Joe needs to set up a Site Staff of specific members that contribute alot to the site and give them privileges to the site. They don't need to mod here if they're gonna be inactive. We need room for active mods. That is my opinion. But I usually don't express it.

Eszett
18th February 2006, 3:43 AM
As a comparative analysis, I present you with this situation: User "noobmaster" of the chat room is going off flaming several people, bashing every racial and religious group he can devise, and generally being an uptight jerk. Now, the ops catch on to the stinky wafts of his rank behavior, and they declare without hesitation to kick him. Thus he is kicked from the room.

Now, enter user "goodfellow" of the chat. He's a sociable, outstanding, and insightful member of the chat. However, he also has an account on the forums from which he sporadically posts. Yet, the ops are so immensely enamored with his behavior that they feel he ought to be rewarded somehow. I get the impression that all too often this reward consists of a modship in the few areas of the board that goodfellow regularly vists (that is, when he even does come to the forum).

What I do not understand is the contradiction of actions invoked in these situations. I will say loud and clear: members should promoted at the exact same medium at which they excel. Chat members to chat ops, forum members to forum admins, chat trolls to kicked members, forum trolls to banned members.

Ohtachi
18th February 2006, 3:50 AM
That is what my theory connects with. Except you forgot about the website. Other than that, my theory is exactly the same.

Lady Barbara
18th February 2006, 3:50 AM
Murgatroyd's internet connection hasn't died, but I think he's using dial-up now. He still has 'net access but it's not reliable enough for him to check on the site every single day. He also doesn't visit BMG every single day.

Locke Yggdrasill
18th February 2006, 3:50 AM
Thus forth, Chat-goodness=chat rewards, and forum-goodness=forum rewards. [/dumbifying it for you unintelligent people]

Ohtachi, it's kind of a Matrix-Oracle moment: Do they contribute because they are modded, or are they mods because they contribute? :<

Wow. All three of us posted at the same time. e.e;

LAdy Barbara, I'm aware of this. That's why I said that he didn't lose his internet connection. But don't you think that visiting once a month is a little ludacris ([/lame-joke]) for a mod+? :<

Akilah Imani
18th February 2006, 3:51 AM
A lot of people tend to be modded because they were well-known in chat, butt-kissed their way, or had friends in high places 8D

Some were modded from the first day they were here....and haven't been here since -_-

Not saying all, just some.

The most active that I see are only mods, whereas the most inactive are super or higher.
Isn't availability one of the somethings that one should be modded for, along with...what was it again? Responsibility, and knowledge?

Good to know we follow standards! :3

Psycho

Nny
18th February 2006, 3:53 AM
Well I say about 3 months in my opinion. But as the lolipop says, "The world may never know"
[/stupid n00b joke]

Ohtachi
18th February 2006, 3:58 AM
Do they contribute because they are modded, or are they mods because they contribute? :<

Simple question brings forth simple answer. They are mods because they contribute. Seen it happen. If members know they can contribute somewhat to the site, they'd do the smart thing and contribute. They wouldn't contribute just because they're mods. How ridiculous is that? Besides, most members think they might be modded if they contribute and on rare occurances, they are. Especially if they stay on the good side of the mods and admins along with trying to stay as close with the rulebook as possible. ;/

Locke Yggdrasill
18th February 2006, 4:01 AM
You've uh...seen it happen? Here? Do you have examples? I don't recall anyone being modded for this reason.

If members know they can contribute somewhat to the site, they'd do the smart thing and contribute.
Tried it, not that easy. :<

They wouldn't contribute just because they're mods. How ridiculous is that?
IMO, it's not too ridiculous at all. If they've never once been to the forum after their modding, contributing to the site is their lifeblood.

Ohtachi
18th February 2006, 4:07 AM
Tried it, not that easy. :<

I said that IF members can meet Joe's requirements for submitting info and guides, then they would.


IMO, it's not too ridiculous at all. If they've never once been to the forum after their modding, contributing to the site is their lifeblood.

Brand-new Members wouldn't be modded on the spot. You have to know somewhat about the forums to be modded. If not, then why does Joe do it? That brings us back to the theories and opinions.

Akilah Imani
18th February 2006, 4:09 AM
You know being modded because you help with the main site, but hardly ever log into the forums, doesn't justify inactiveness. Writing a guide for the latest Pokemon episode in Japan doesn't stop flamewars, close threads, or delete SPAM.

Just wanted to stir the mud :)

Psycho

Locke Yggdrasill
18th February 2006, 4:10 AM
Brand-new Members wouldn't be modded on the spot. You have to know somewhat about the forums to be modded. If not, then why does Joe do it? That brings us back to the theories and opinions.
I know, I probably should have clarified: If a member has been to the forums for a long while, and is very well respected, and they get modded, but don't ever go back to the forums because they are too lazy, one of the only means of keeping their modship would be to submit to the site.

Ohtachi
18th February 2006, 4:10 AM
Thanks, Psycho. I second your opinion down to the word. Is it true that mods are known to help with the site and help manage chat more than mod the forums?


I know, I probably should have clarified: If a member has been to the forums for a long while, and is very well respected, and they get modded, but don't ever go back to the forums because they are too lazy, one of the only means of keeping their modship would be to submit to the site.

That right there is wrong. That also goes back to what I just said. Since mods can be so lazy, they find other ways to help around but don't mod. They think they can remain as mods this way. Then some mods don't flat out do anything. They find excuses and reasons to be inactive. Mods have to devote more time to these forums. We aren't a BulbaGarden, people.

Locke Yggdrasill
18th February 2006, 4:13 AM
Oh, heck yes, Ohtachi.
You know, I actually think that we both have the same viewpoint and opinions, but are expressing them differently. I also agree with Psycho.

Ohtachi
18th February 2006, 4:17 AM
Oh, heck yes, Ohtachi.
You know, I actually think that we both have the same viewpoint and opinions, but are expressing them differently. I also agree with Psycho.

Yeah, I agree. I just didn't want to SPAM by repeating everything you all have been stating. We all pretty much have given valid opinions and theories on why inactive mods need to be demodded and how they believe that they may remain inactive for long periods of time.

Locke Yggdrasill
18th February 2006, 4:33 AM
Now let's see what our kind webmaster has to say. 8Đ

Fox
18th February 2006, 4:50 AM
I know. But do you ever see "Well, *insert admin name here* has done *insert action name here*." on the front page? :<
And, help ≈ updating, etc.
Also, your, mine, and Eszett's logic are the same thing, when it comes to modding, it would appear.
A lot of the content goes up on SPPf without 'credit' due to some of the contributors wanting to remain anonymous. I am one of them and have helped with stuff like XD content, TCG scans, the Pokedex and Attack Dex, etc. You hardly see my name or any credit given to me at all. I know other people are like that too. Sometimes content does = 'rewards' but not all the time. For myself, I got modded before I contributed to the site.


Moreover, I would like to know about the mods that visit semi-occasionally but don't seem to do much. In particular, I am thinking of Jasmine, SapphireDewgong, and other such mods. I see them on every once in a while, but they hardly ever make any visible changes.

Also, I notice a fair number of chat regulars who are modded here but don't do much with their modship status here. Pardon me, but shouldn't we be giving those chat members who achieve excellence there op status in the chatroom while giving members that achieve excellence here moderator status? I don't quite understand how being a chat mogul warrants a modship.

I smell the thick stench of the mod debates on the horizon.
You can't be on 24/7 so it is quite possible that they're on when you're not on, and frequent sections that you don't.


I've been wondering this, too. Coolcatfish is only a Mod+ because he's like, Joe's best friend. What kind of crap is that? Based on that logic, I should mod music, because music's the most important "thing" in my life.

But, that's not what the topic's asking. My point is that why isn't he demodded? He does nothing, hasn't been on in ages, and is but one of the many staff members that are just wasting e-space. There's no real reason that they're still modded, other than Joe not really giving a damn.

GoldenNoctowl77. Rofl.
Yeah, its kind of unfair to some people when it comes to him modding his friends, however, another issue that is involved is trust. Joe trusts his friends, so its not surprising that they get access in places. If you, or anyone you feel deserve modding, don't get on Joe's bad side. That way, you won't lose any possible trust. With that, I'm not saying to be a 'brown noser' either, I'm just saying that you shouldn't get on his bad side.

I know a lot of people feel/believe that I kiss Joe's behind, and in all honesty, it may seem like that, but I do what I do to add to the site. I do scans whenever I can to keep the site up-to-date, but I don't always have the time. I do things out of convenience, to help the site move along, not to inflate Joe's ego.

Recently, I helped him with an issue on IRC, and frankly, I didn't do it to get on his good side. I did it 'cause I knew if it didn't happen, the chat would wind up moving, and people would be splitting up, and going all "*sign* moving again..." and stuff.

ANYWAY, back to the topic. Some of the inactive people contribute to the forums in ways some of us can't see. Some have earned their trust and power over time. Inactive mods, in my opinion, isn't one of the top issues of these forums.

This issue has been discussed before, and never really went anywhere.

Heck, in early 2005 I went through an unannounced 3 month line of inactivity only because my computers died.

On a final note, as for the SPPc vs SPPf stuff, a lot of the people whom you see with power on both, were active on both, but things changed. If you really want to be trusted and well-known fast, go to chat. Its the best way for us to see who you are and what kind of person you are. I got my mod because I was an active chat member, and brought some of my trust and respect with me when I went from TPMc to SPPc, then I worked my way up from there.

Locke Yggdrasill
18th February 2006, 4:53 AM
You can't be on 24/7 so it is quite possible that they're on when you're not on, and frequent sections that you don't.
I believe he was referring to the "Last active on" feature of the profile.

Inactive mods, in my opinion, isn't one of the top issues of these forums.
But it should be discussed sooner or later, IMO.
I know, I know, I saw the latter part of your post. e.e;

Eszett
18th February 2006, 5:28 AM
I was particularly wary of your comment about gaining recognition though SPPc, Fox.

It still eludes me how being a good chat member should earn one a modship. Sure, you can make occasional contributions to the forum and devote your time to the chat, but this fails to do justice to those regular members that apply their time and devotion to the forums but get little in return for their efforts. Moreover, how can you really show your worth to the forums in the chat? It's nothing like the forum, where posts are stored indefinitely and you have plenty of time to think out what you want to say. In addition, you have a plethora of subjects into which you can refine your matter of discussion.

In the chat, none of that applies. It demands quick, rapid thinking while paying attention to a constantly shifting discussion. To add to this, you only have a single area in which you may speak. You can't, say, talk about D/P or show off your art when you want to. In the chat, you must focus on what is being discussed at the time and hope the discussion flows in the direction you desire. It's a more demanding situation that requires you to be on your feet and be able to small talk.

In summation, the environments presented by the forums and the chat are wholly incomparable. While forums encourage deep, involved, and well thought-out posts, the chats promote fast typing and spontaneous thinking of the situation at hand and manifesting these thoughts in short bursts. I would much rather have a mod that can exhibit the first set of traits more than the second set, just as if I were a chat denizen I would rather opt for an op with the second set of qualities. Some people can't handle one environment or the other. But, should we be promoting those members who have an set of traits not necessarily suited to the forums to modship positions on the forums? I say let the medium be the judge. Chat members to chat ops, forum members to forum mods.

However, what if one isn't suited well to the environment of the chat? Take me, for instance. (I'm just using myself since I'm the easiest example of which I can think.) From what I gather, many identify me as an esteemed and level-headed member of the forums, never running into trouble with any of the mods nor acting excessively unruly. People note me for being a vital asset to the D/P forums in particular but receive my comments in other forums very well. However, while I can apparently live up to this reputation at these forums, put me in the chat and I'm a Earthling on the moon. It's not an easy situation for me in such a high-pace environment; indeed, evident from the length of this post and the ones I have made in the past I would try to overthink my thoughts in the room. In addition, I would be severely more limited to wield the scope of my knowledge in this situation. I would need to actively pay attention to the backlog of conversation and keep it fresh in memory while all the while more lines are being piled upon it, while at the same time demonstrating the skills that I possibly possess to the chat community in an environment to which I am not familiar. I would deem it a terrific conundrum for me to handle myself within such an environment. I am not saying that the chat shouldn't be a venue to be recognized, just that it shouldn't be the main criterion in whether a member is modded or not, which precedent would seem to support.

This seems to me affirmation in the very least that apparently one can give all of his resources to the forum yet not ascend into the ranks of modship where instead a chat member and sporadic forum member would go.

I realize this was not an official declaration, but it still seems strong enough a de facto standard for me to, well, type this all up.

Fox
18th February 2006, 6:08 AM
In all honesty, the only person I know of who got power on the forums because of their status in chat was myself. Most of the other people who have power on both either earned both for being active through both mediums, or went through the forum first, then came to chat and had an 'accellerated' promotion sequence.

I don't exactly recall when/why/how I was modded here, but I do know that it was not long after originally joining the forums (this was in late 2003, not long before the whole database got wiped). I can only assume the reason I was modded was because of my knowledge and such in the Pokemon TCG, and the urgent need for a TCG mod back then.

I recall the TCG forum actually being shut down and not being able to post in it due to SPAM and other issues, but eventually things got going, and the TCG is what it is today. A dead forum with pretty decent discussions and little to no spam or flaming (probably due to the inactivity there lol).

It is impossible for Joe or any of the Admin, or even much of the staff to keep a look-out for who can be a good moderator. If I were to judge your skills based on your post to which I am replying to, Eszett, I would say you'd make a fine moderator.

Its just hard to come up with moderator candidates for areas when we need them. Not because there aren't any, but because few people suggest them amongst the staff. I'm sure that when I was modded, there probably was at least anther person who was qualified to do it, but they were an unknown.

You can also argue that you have a lot of support from people, but how can we tell whether or not that support is there because you have lots of friends, a lot of newbies are just randomly supporting you, or that its all legitimate support. Unfortunately, the best way to become modded is to be outstanding, make yourself known to the current staff, and hope that nobody else is more recognized by other members of the staff.

I kind of lost my train of thought in this post due to other topics and a few IMs lol... Let me know if there are any obscurities in what I said ;\

MondoTR
18th February 2006, 10:50 AM
There's a thread in the mod section for mods to say when they'll be gone for a while so the other mods will know. Normal members can't see that so it may seem to you guys that they're suddenly gone but we usually know why.

And sometimes they can't give a reason or don't want to. Like suddenly losing their net before being able to tell anyone or having a personal problem offline that they need time to deal with and they don't feel like going online during that time.

And some mods mod without posting or mod in sections you don't go in. So you can't really judge by the fact you don't see them post.

Also, about chat people getting modding because of their chat status, I'm not sure but it might be the other way around. Or that might have just been for me. Back before I was a smod I was a VOp in the chat because I was there so much then I was smodded and within that week I was HOped. And I think that was because of my smod because it was so close to it and because I had no clue how to do anything HOp related and there were so many people that deserved it more because they knew how to be one.

Shadowcat
18th February 2006, 11:15 AM
Well... I guess Joe needs to clean the mod team... But please, Fox, doesn't Serebii give credit to you for the TCG scans?

Well... Almost everything Coronis does, has been credited... And he mods the Pokemon Manga Discussion Forum frequently... But other than him AND Brinstar, who both are very knowledgeable on Manga/Pokemon Manga, I think Pokemon Manga Discussion and Alternate Manga Discussion still needs one member to help out in each forum... Jade or JazzJazz would be good for the Pokemon Manga Discussion and That Scary Clefairy for Alternate Manga Discussion...

Well... That's what I think... And Flaming Torchic also doesn't deserve modship, IMO. He barely even comes and mod...

Another mod to talk about is Crystal Mew... She doesn't even mod these days... I still wonder why she's modded for the Pokemon Manga Discussion forum when she doesn't even post there anymore...

Yes, angry rant by Miss Sapphire to why some mods don't deserve places and why some forums need some members to mod those forums...

Serebii
18th February 2006, 11:27 AM
Just because you don't see them mod doesn't mean they dont

PLANES CURE TOWERS
18th February 2006, 11:37 AM
Should I make a real post in this thread?

Whats the point? What we have right here is a case of "The mods suck, get new ones."

We. Don't. Need. New. Moderators. -_-

And here's why. Look at the things you currentley post, lets annotate some of the things you are all saying.


Well... Almost everything Coronis does, has been credited... And he mods the Pokemon Manga Discussion Forum frequently... But other than him AND Brinstar, who both are very knowledgeable on Manga/Pokemon Manga, I think Pokemon Manga Discussion and Alternate Manga Discussion still needs one member to help out in each forum... Jade or JazzJazz would be good for the Pokemon Manga Discussion and That Scary Clefairy for Alternate Manga Discussion...
If Brinstar and Coronis are there frequently, there doesn't need to be another mod.

Eszett: If someone can handle the versatility of the chat, then wouldn't they be a good candidate for mod status in that they show ability to cope with lots of situations?


I've been wondering this, too. Coolcatfish is only a Mod+ because he's like, Joe's best friend. What kind of crap is that? Based on that logic, I should mod music, because music's the most important "thing" in my life.

But, that's not what the topic's asking. My point is that why isn't he demodded? He does nothing, hasn't been on in ages, and is but one of the many staff members that are just wasting e-space. There's no real reason that they're still modded, other than Joe not really giving a damn.
Crappy analogy you used, but okay.
It's elementary though, it's all about trust. @_@


Well some Admins were only Adminned because they help out with the site. :/
I wasn't aware that's what admins are, y'know, supposed to do?


Moreover, I would like to know about the mods that visit semi-occasionally but don't seem to do much. In particular, I am thinking of Jasmine, SapphireDewgong, and other such mods. I see them on every once in a while, but they hardly ever make any visible changes.
Jas and SD do come online, but due to the fact they both have lives, much like Shining mew does (who you are surprisingly exempting), they can't be online a lot.

I like the way you go for the mods that people like less. Not that I have anything against jess.

Now then. Lets jump back to the situation ~xXSapphireXx~ posted. :)
-Have all sections got at least 1 active moderator in them?
-Are these sections active?
-Are the numbers of mods adequate according to the activity? (Hint: Yes)
-Do people need to stop whining about why we need new mods, when we in fact, don't?
-Is caring on the internet pointless?
-Are any of you going to attempt an argument against this?

If you answered yes to all those questions, don't argue, and congratulations, you win the internet.

This has been my opinion on the internet. Lets make it happen.

-Josh

Shadowcat
18th February 2006, 11:38 AM
If a mod closes a thread without posting the reason or whatsoever, we shall not know which mod closes the thread... Well, members... We only can assume... So, get our point?

How do we know which mod closes a thread if he/she doesnt' post? So we won't know which mod did the modding...

Fox
18th February 2006, 11:39 AM
Well... I guess Joe needs to clean the mod team... But please, Fox, doesn't Serebii give credit to you for the TCG scans?
I did say that the TCG scans aren't the only thing I did/do for the site. :p

Waterlight
18th February 2006, 12:29 PM
If a mod closes a thread without posting the reason or whatsoever, we shall not know which mod closes the thread... Well, members... We only can assume... So, get our point?

How do we know which mod closes a thread if he/she doesnt' post? So we won't know which mod did the modding...

There's more to modding then just closing threads and to be honest, do we really need to know who closed the thread..?

Akilah Imani
18th February 2006, 1:39 PM
Needing to know who closed the thread really doesn't matter >_>

As for other reasons stated, I don't think that this thread or discussion should be about whether we need new mods and who are good candidates, it was started based on Locke asking why some members who are inactive are still modding. This isn't the time or place for you to suggest your candidates for mods, or try to look good in front of the others.

I'm well-aware of the invisible mod forum, but its just that invisible :o Normal members wouldn't know if a mod left for personal reasons or formally announced their future inactivity. To normal users it would just appear as if the moderator isn't doing their job, which is why we have this thread.

Which brings to my conclucion. Does it matter? Does it stop world hunger? Should I even care? :/
Oh yeah, I remember now. I was just looking for kicks.

Oh well, my statement still stands on the whole chat thing, but really, I got just the response that I expected from both mods and members. Lucky me.

Must be nice to have such concerned users. So what's next on the whole 'critical' discussion list?

Psycho

Shadowcat
18th February 2006, 2:28 PM
I know there are other ways to know who's modding.. Generally, the easiest to spot out is closing of threads...

There are other things... Like deleting posts, warning users, stopping fights and all... But some mods don't even do that...

MondoTR
18th February 2006, 2:31 PM
Some of the things you mentioned can be done without everyone seeing they were done such as deleting posts and warning people. So how do you know some mods don't do it?

Shadowcat
18th February 2006, 2:33 PM
It's because they don't come online in a very long time... So we know it's definitely not which mod if they don't come online on that day or week or haven't come online in months..

We have to assume the mods which got online on that day did those stuff... Or the mods online that week and such...

Fluorescent Adolescent
18th February 2006, 4:18 PM
Well my opinion on this is that the mods do a reasonable job and although there may be some that should be demodded, does it really matter? The mod team works currently as it is :/

Why fix something that isn't broken?

Magma Leader Maxie
18th February 2006, 5:01 PM
Why fix something that isn't broken?

That's one of Serebii's favourite/most common sayings too. But, ...erm... the problem with that is, you might have a perfet condition black and white TV set, and you still might want a new, color one. So, while it does make sense, it's not a phrase you can "obey" all the time.

Well, the reason why I do respect that saying is the irrefutable fact that serebii.net and it's forums are definitely my destination, and the destination of the majority of people wanting informaton about Pokemon. The fact stands that this site is doing very well, to say the least, so I suppose no one can say that Serebii is doing something wrong if you look at the facts.

Komedic Konservationist
18th February 2006, 5:16 PM
I've seen a mod called Cayenne who has only ever posted 3 times. What's all that about?

Locke Yggdrasill
18th February 2006, 5:20 PM
Cayenne is an admin who helps around, behind the scenes.

MaskedManAbsolkid
18th February 2006, 5:54 PM
There are staff who haven't been active for 28 days, one was on on the 4th of January, but that doesn't count, one hasn't been on since October the 26th. This is aimed at them wishing to say 'But this one hasn't been on for weeks!'

Brinstar
18th February 2006, 6:11 PM
Well... Almost everything Coronis does, has been credited... And he mods the Pokemon Manga Discussion Forum frequently... But other than him AND Brinstar, who both are very knowledgeable on Manga/Pokemon Manga, I think Pokemon Manga Discussion and Alternate Manga Discussion still needs one member to help out in each forum... Jade or JazzJazz would be good for the Pokemon Manga Discussion and That Scary Clefairy for Alternate Manga Discussion...

When's the last time there's been a massive spam streak in any of the manga forums? They're not exactly active places, and the people who post in them are intelligent... we don't need a bunch of mods stationed in those sections because they aren't active sections to begin with. @_@;

Ohtachi
18th February 2006, 6:30 PM
Jas and SD do come online, but due to the fact they both have lives, much like Shining mew does (who you are surprisingly exempting), they can't be online a lot.

Maybe because Shining Mew is online more and does a excellent job modding. Overall, SM gets involved more.


I wasn't aware that's what admins are, y'know, supposed to do?

Not all Admins help out with the site. Some are just flat out, inactive, while others mod and help run the forums.

PhQnix
18th February 2006, 6:37 PM
Maybe because Shining Mew is online more and does a excellent job modding. Overall, SM gets involved more.
In comparison with SapphireDewgong it's the same amount of activity, people just don't want to target SM because she's their friend or whatever other reason they have. She is as inactive as some of the mods specified here at periods and probably for reasons just as valid.

Also why does it matter, the forum isn't on the verge of "anarchy" thus why moan?

Zora
18th February 2006, 7:44 PM
SM isn't getting flamed here because she said in the Name change thread (to tell people why it was taking a LONG time to change names) that she was doing something and have small times to come here. Therefore the general public knows that, but what goes on behind the scenes we have no clue about.

Locke Yggdrasill
18th February 2006, 7:54 PM
But, when SM is active, she does alot more than Jasseh and SD, it would appear.

PhQnix
18th February 2006, 8:03 PM
But, when SM is active, she does alot more than Jasseh and SD, it would appear.
But shes inactive and that is what you're complaining about, surely someone else could do the same amount as her and be more active...

Fair point Zora...

PLANES CURE TOWERS
18th February 2006, 8:18 PM
SM isn't getting flamed here because she said in the Name change thread (to tell people why it was taking a LONG time to change names) that she was doing something and have small times to come here. Therefore the general public knows that, but what goes on behind the scenes we have no clue about.
Right. So then we shouldn't jump to conclusions. But we do, or rather, you all do.

-Josh

MondoTR
18th February 2006, 8:22 PM
What exactly do you guys think makes someone an inactive mod? For example, how long does a mod have to be away before you guys are considering them inactive?

Locke Yggdrasill
18th February 2006, 8:24 PM
Basically, a 2 to 2˝ week period of being away, IMO.
But Dani, I didn't consider you inactive due to the fact that two of the forums that I knew you modded had the same date for your last activity, thus giving evidence of the loss of your internet connection.

PhQnix
18th February 2006, 8:27 PM
What exactly do you guys think makes someone an inactive mod? For example, how long does a mod have to be away before you guys are considering them inactive?
Same amount of time as you were away :p

It doesn't appear to be the general consensus that time away counts someone as inactive, it appears to be the amount they post or leave 'marks' where they have made a modding decision such as posting when a thread is closed. All of the mods people complain about may do much modding, just little posting thus we can't accurately judge someone's inactiveness.

MondoTR
18th February 2006, 8:33 PM
It doesn't appear to be the general consensus that time away counts someone as inactive, it appears to be the amount they post or leave 'marks' where they have made a modding decision such as posting when a thread is closed. All of the mods people complain about may do much modding, just little posting thus we can't accurately judge someone's inactiveness.
That's why people shouldn't judge by the amount mods post.

Locke, I did have a reason for being gone but it's still considered inactive.

Locke Yggdrasill
18th February 2006, 8:36 PM
Well, I guess the reason I made this thread was to cope with intentional inactivity.
You probably should have had a mod put in your place in your time of inactivity, Dani, but, meh. ( I know I had a connection that I was going to use to link what I just said and your post, but I forgot, so..e.e; )

Eszett
18th February 2006, 8:45 PM
Bleh, I had a massive headache and am only now recuperating from it. I do want to get back to those posts that were addressed to me, however...
In all honesty, the only person I know of who got power on the forums because of their status in chat was myself. Most of the other people who have power on both either earned both for being active through both mediums, or went through the forum first, then came to chat and had an 'accellerated' promotion sequence.

I don't exactly recall when/why/how I was modded here, but I do know that it was not long after originally joining the forums (this was in late 2003, not long before the whole database got wiped). I can only assume the reason I was modded was because of my knowledge and such in the Pokemon TCG, and the urgent need for a TCG mod back then.

I recall the TCG forum actually being shut down and not being able to post in it due to SPAM and other issues, but eventually things got going, and the TCG is what it is today. A dead forum with pretty decent discussions and little to no spam or flaming (probably due to the inactivity there lol).

It is impossible for Joe or any of the Admin, or even much of the staff to keep a look-out for who can be a good moderator. If I were to judge your skills based on your post to which I am replying to, Eszett, I would say you'd make a fine moderator.

Its just hard to come up with moderator candidates for areas when we need them. Not because there aren't any, but because few people suggest them amongst the staff. I'm sure that when I was modded, there probably was at least anther person who was qualified to do it, but they were an unknown.

You can also argue that you have a lot of support from people, but how can we tell whether or not that support is there because you have lots of friends, a lot of newbies are just randomly supporting you, or that its all legitimate support. Unfortunately, the best way to become modded is to be outstanding, make yourself known to the current staff, and hope that nobody else is more recognized by other members of the staff.

I kind of lost my train of thought in this post due to other topics and a few IMs lol... Let me know if there are any obscurities in what I said ;\A point of clarification: if you were modded for your merits in the TCG forum, and you said you became modded from your efforts in the chat...I can't make two heads about it! :<

Anyways...I realize that some of the more known members are more likely to be modded, and from seeing what others have to say about me, I certainly am one of those more known members. Not intending this as a vouch for my modship, but merely because I know myself best, but I do help plenty with the site already, in particular with the sig-checking thread and mandating the sig rules. As a result of the ambiguity of some of the terms used in the sig rules, I devised a set of new sig rules with Wolf Goddess which she should have posted, or, failing that, will soon post in the mod forum or discuss with the mods to which they are most pertinent.

I'd go further into detail about this matter, but at least this should indicate that at least some of the bigwigs of this site have noticed the activity of several normal members. Indeed, after TRJessie579 posted the thread about the Rustboro girl and Filb's discovering of how to get her to work, Shining Mew vouched for her modship in the 3rd gen game threads. And look at TRJessie now; she's done an outstanding job having been promoted already to mod+ and not showing any signs of letting down.

At least for myself, these incidents show that several of the moderators on this site maintain a close tab on several prominent members here. Our potential isn't going completely unsung, and while I realize I can't do much about it, it irks me a trifle how the chat seems to be the best venue to make yourself a forum moderator.

And thus ends my soliloquy-exposé-piece.


Eszett: If someone can handle the versatility of the chat, then wouldn't they be a good candidate for mod status in that they show ability to cope with lots of situations?My qualm with this situation is that this doesn't show whether they demonstrate a background knowledge of the situation at had. They may be experienced in the chat, but, are they necessarily experienced in the forums?


Jas and SD do come online, but due to the fact they both have lives, much like Shining mew does (who you are surprisingly exempting), they can't be online a lot.

I like the way you go for the mods that people like less. Not that I have anything against jess.That's why I included an "and others" blanket statement. :p

I suppose that the reason we are complaining is that if and when these latent mods do mod, we don't see them mod. Furthermore, I opine that SM evades most of this criticism since she when she does come on, she make the forum community aware that she is doing something. In the name-change thread, for instance, she made us clearly aware that she was going through the backlog of names and changing/ruling invalid each and every one.

And despite all the activity I exhibit here, I do plenty of stuff outside of the forums. However, I'm still able to come here for an ample amount of time.

MondoTR
18th February 2006, 8:45 PM
Why would I put a mod in my place? The section I mod has plenty of mods. Besides, I originally was supposed to be gone for only about ten days or so for Christmas and my birthday. The last month of my inactivity was due to losing the internet which happened before I could come on to warn anyone.

Locke Yggdrasill
18th February 2006, 8:52 PM
I should have clarified: Joe should have put a mod in yer place

Although, having seen the points that you brought up with your most recent post, it would seem that having someone modded in your place until you got back wouldn't have been the wisest idea.
I'm not blaming you for losing your internet connection. (Just a clarification.)

MondoTR
19th February 2006, 12:19 AM
Maybe you need to be modded? Not saying you are but sure sounds like modbegging.

PLANES CURE TOWERS
19th February 2006, 12:29 AM
The Alt. Card needs a friggin' mod now! I didn't know that MS knew anything about Alt. Cards and Fox was only extremely active in the section for around two weeks when there was Spam and Rule Breaking.

Sergay Wang and Yami Ron need to be added to the section, since they are already modded. Orochi Breakwing, Love Hina Fan, and Vagabond Aeon deserve to be modded if they weren't so inactive.

Maybe I need to, but I don't really want to be modded right now. I'm knowledgeable of YGO, and I can easily learn about other TCGs. I'm also the most active person in the whole section.

Plus, the inactivity of about 75% of the mods is annoying me heavily.There are people in each section that should be modded over people who are already modded, who should be demodded by now.

That is my two cents about this subject.
My two cents is that a forum that is barely active doesn't need any new moderators.
Roflpwned.

-Josh

Ethereal
19th February 2006, 12:32 AM
That's exactly what it sounds like. Begging to be a mod gets you nowhere. -SK-, your post also had like, nothing to do with the actual thread. o_O

On topic: If a mod doesn't announce that they'll be inactive, and just do NOTHING (according to mod logs and activity) for at least 2 months, kick their arses out. If they add nothing, why are they here? Or is it just that you don't care? D:

Silver Ryu
19th February 2006, 1:36 AM
Well, 2 weeks is NOT enough time to demod someone. What if they're on vacation and don't have access to a computer? I say 2-4 months where they're literally not doing anything is good.

Yeah, there are a lot of mods that don't do much. And BTW, Jasmine and SD used to go on a lot. But they don't really now. I dunno how much they do behind the scenes, but....they don't seem to post much. And that Coolcatfish guy does, like...nothing, and a lot of the ones I've never heard of don't really...well, they mod sections I never visit, (anime style battling, Pokémon TCG, Fizzy Bubbles, that kind of thing) so I wouldn't know about that.

Locke Yggdrasill
19th February 2006, 1:54 AM
who in "tee eff" goes on vacation for 2-3 weeks? e.e;

Shining Mew
19th February 2006, 1:55 AM
The only way to really determine inactivity is to view the mod logs in the Admin panel.. which shows each modding action by each person and when it was done and what was done.. etc. Otherwise unless its completely obvious total inactivity, its hard to actual judge.


And I do apologize greatly for not being as active as I used to be in Decemeber and earlier. January had a bunch of testing with midterms/regents and crap and February Ive had tons of programs/projects or whatever the hell youd it.. extracurricular activties and drivers ed. 11th grade is the year of massive work here.

I try to come look around though when I get the chance. I have off for a week so hopefully Ill finish my work early and get myself back on track here like I used to be.

But until then, sorry guys, youll have to live with a little less from me. Im only human but at least I try ;\



who in "tee eff" goes on vacation for 2-3 weeks? e.e;
When I went to Hawaii we went for 2 wks xD

Locke Yggdrasill
19th February 2006, 1:58 AM
But, the question is, do any of the mods actually check the mod logs? :<
I know there's the rare occasion that they are checked on an invisionfree/ IPB forum, but I'm not sure if there's a greater or lesser frequency of checking on a forum as large as this one is.
Jess, could you, by chance, check Elite Dragon Trainer's recent admin actions? His/Her last post was in November, Aye Aye Arr See, but, perhaps moderations differ from this particular moderator's post.

Shining Mew
19th February 2006, 2:01 AM
Last moderating activity was at 5:11 PM, November 13th, 2005

:X

Shigaiko
19th February 2006, 3:08 AM
Can't be bothered reading through ~75 posts to see if this was already said, but if someone can't spare 15-20 minutes of their day to check up on their forums, they shouldn't be a mod. Simple as that really. ;/

Altair
19th February 2006, 3:26 AM
Really? I don't think so. Take a look at Jess. Do you really think that if you were bombarded with all that work you'd actually think "OMG, I forgot to check the forums!" There are plenty of other things that people have to do with their lives. Forgetting to check on your forums once in a while doesn't mean you should be de-modded.
Again, look at Jess. She wasn't on for a while, but she posted today. Would you de-mod her for not checking the forums because she had to finish all that AP work? What if someone had family issues, or something like that? Maybe you should have read the 75 posts. I did, and I found out that the least amount of time of inactivity that someone thought a mod should be de-modded for was two to two and half weeks.

Ethereal
19th February 2006, 3:46 AM
She explained to the staff that she wouldn't be as active. As was stated, if we are given warning of less activity, there's no problem. :/

Zora
19th February 2006, 5:41 AM
Also, as long as the forums modding is active AT least once a day, it is fine. The only time it was a problem was near the release of Wi-Fi, and the Nintendo forums was horrid. Now with Dragonair there and Latios (Fox for the Wi-Fi section), it has been smoother then ever. But really, why try to improve on something that is fine the way it is. Having mods that don't 'Mod' doesn't hurt greatly. Now if several forums were falling apart because of slow modding, then we would need to demod current mods. But every forum (at least I visit) has been running smoother. Really, I see no way to demod someone.

Ohtachi
19th February 2006, 5:27 PM
Also why does it matter, the forum isn't on the verge of "anarchy" thus why moan?

Inactive mods are a waste of space and don't deserve their positions. Inactive mods are like inactive members. They all have their reasons, true or not. But members and mods still should try to be active.

PhQnix
19th February 2006, 5:38 PM
Inactive mods are a waste of space and don't deserve their positions. Inactive mods are like inactive members. They all have their reasons, true or not. But members and mods still should try to be active.

It's not your space they are wasting, it's Serebii's and he obviously doesn't care.

Maybe they don't deserve their positions, but my point still stands if it doesn't affect anyone why moan. This just comes across as a bunch of people begging for modship by pointing out the flaws in the existing team. Even if you don't mean it too seem that way it is making all of you who are complaining appear to be feeling that way. Specifically because you are complaining about a problem that doesn't actually warrant this much attention.

Zora
19th February 2006, 5:40 PM
It's not your space they are wasting, it's Serebii's and he obviously doesn't care.

Maybe they don't deserve their positions, but my point still stands if it doesn't affect anyone why moan. This just comes across as a bunch of people begging for modship by pointing out the flaws in the existing team. Even if you don't mean it too seem that way it is making all of you who are complaining appear to be feeling that way. Specifically because you are complaining about a problem that doesn't actually warrant this much attention.

Agreed. Obbiously none of our current Admins care, so why should we. We shouldn't care about inactive mods in less it on whole effects a forum from being too spammy

MondoTR
19th February 2006, 5:43 PM
Inactive mods are a waste of space and don't deserve their positions. Inactive mods are like inactive members. They all have their reasons, true or not. But members and mods still should try to be active.
So because we're mods we have to be here everyday all the time and can never take a vacation or focus on something offline or anything like that? Pfft.

Ohtachi
19th February 2006, 5:47 PM
So because we're mods we have to be here everyday all the time and can never take a vacation or focus on something offline or anything like that? Pfft

If that means taking a vacation every week and only being online a few days every three weeks. ;/

MidnightScott
19th February 2006, 5:57 PM
Let's just say that I thought the rules of being a mod were to try to be active several times a week. They should mod people who can actually live up to the requirements (like me with no life, but I don't want to take that task - I would get annoyed by all the SPAM and stupid posts)

Anyways - just mod people who you know will do a good job and who you know will be online most of the time.

~Scott;229;

Locke Yggdrasill
19th February 2006, 6:41 PM
Last moderating activity was at 5:11 PM, November 13th, 2005

:X
Told ya so. x3;
But, really, can you truly call that acceptable?

Agreed. Obbiously none of our current Admins care, so why should we. We shouldn't care about inactive mods in less it on whole effects a forum from being too spammy
erm...Because we're not mindless/careless beings that follow solely what the admins want.

Ohtachi
19th February 2006, 9:04 PM
They should mod people who can actually live up to the requirements (like me with no life, but I don't want to take that task - I would get annoyed by all the SPAM and stupid posts)

I'll second that. Mods shouldn't take so many vacations and be so busy. Modding might be hard, but if people manage their time wisely, they could be active and have a life. Members who have busy lives and aren't active have their accounts deleted after a while. Why not have mods be demodded in the same instance? ;/

Fox
19th February 2006, 9:09 PM
1) Only admin can check mod logs
2) She really shouldn't have checked/told you >>; I recall an admin a long time ago checking for a regular mod, and getting 'the whole nine yards' or w/e the saying was...
3) Yes, we do have inactive mods, but we have enough active mods to balance it out. All it would really result in is (possible) demodding of a few, and no real new mods.
4) Recent moddings and promotions have been discussed by the staff as a whole. (this was two months ago) There was another thread brought up, but none of the staff feel that there is a need for any new mods (nobody posted).
5) I don't know... just kind of randomish today...
6) I might also note that when a mod is added, they are probably active and such for a while, but sometimes inactivity just comes up and they start losing reason to come on. Its not a question of modding bad mods in the first place, its a question of whether or not the mods keep up their duties

Eszett
19th February 2006, 9:13 PM
I'll second that. Mods shouldn't take so many vacations and be so busy. Modding might be hard, but if people manage their time wisely, they could be active and have a life. Members who have busy lives and aren't active have their accounts deleted after a while. Why not have mods be demodded in the same instance? ;/So wait, they must remain in shackles to a duty for which they receive no pay and moreover voluntarily perform? I can understand sheer negligence to check the forums, but the occasional break should go unpunished, especially if these instances are announced by whomever is taking them.

In addition, if unforeseen circumstances hold up a moderator, I would consider a demotion until that member returns and can once again oblige to maintain a watch on the forums (demotion at 3 months from departure, leeway period at 1 month thereafter). That way, if someone exudes negligence or has an unplanned interruption, he still has a chance to be included back into the staff and restored to his former rank, but any excessive negligence would warrant the nigh-permanent demotion of that individual. [/proposal]

Ohtachi
19th February 2006, 9:15 PM
Yeah. It also comes down to:

Why fix something that isn't broken? (The mod system is fine and okay as it is.)

vs.

Out with the old and in with the new. (Replace the inactive mods with mods who will do good and be more active.)

Locke Yggdrasill
19th February 2006, 9:21 PM
In addition, if unforeseen circumstances hold up a moderator, I would consider a demotion until that member returns and can once again oblige to maintain a watch on the forums (demotion at 3 months from departure, leeway period at 1 month thereafter). That way, if someone exudes negligence or has an unplanned interruption, he still has a chance to be included back into the staff and restored to his former rank, but any excessive negligence would warrant the nigh-permanent demotion of that individual. [/proposal]
I second this proposal. But, the mod can be active as heck, but what about no modding? Just like Elite Dragon Trainer, who was actually on yesterday after a 2-2˝ month period of absence, but has not modded since the 13th of November.
So, what about not modding and/or inactivity? =D

PhQnix
19th February 2006, 9:23 PM
They should mod people who can actually live up to the requirements (like me with no life, but I don't want to take that task - I would get annoyed by all the SPAM and stupid posts)
Because it's not entirely possible that someone's lifestyle could change thereby reducing the amount of time they can spend modding in relation to the time they could originally spend.


I'll second that. Mods shouldn't take so many vacations and be so busy. Modding might be hard, but if people manage their time wisely, they could be active and have a life. Members who have busy lives and aren't active have their accounts deleted after a while. Why not have mods be demodded in the same instance? ;/
Because modding a pokemon forum is definetly more important than exams/social life/school/real world.


erm...Because we're not mindless/careless beings that follow solely what the admins want.
But apparently you're beings who pick out petty non-existant flaws in a forum. This is not a problem, the forums are relatively spam and n00b free, thus why moan?

When the absence of mods begins to cause general "anarchy" in the forums i'll join you in complaining but for now you guys are just finding problems where none really exist.


3) Yes, we do have inactive mods, but we have enough active mods to balance it out. All it would really result in is (possible) demodding of a few, and no real new mods.
4) Recent moddings and promotions have been discussed by the staff as a whole. (this was two months ago) There was another thread brought up, but none of the staff feel that there is a need for any new mods (nobody posted)
I wonder if the argument will continue now.

Edit: Apparently it will D:

Edit:

In addition, if unforeseen circumstances hold up a moderator, I would consider a demotion until that member returns and can once again oblige to maintain a watch on the forums (demotion at 3 months from departure, leeway period at 1 month thereafter). That way, if someone exudes negligence or has an unplanned interruption, he still has a chance to be included back into the staff and restored to his former rank, but any excessive negligence would warrant the nigh-permanent demotion of that individual. [/proposal]
Why bother demoting someone if they can come back straight to their former position, why not just leave them?

Ohtachi
19th February 2006, 9:23 PM
3) Yes, we do have inactive mods, but we have enough active mods to balance it out. All it would really result in is (possible) demodding of a few, and no real new mods.

I'd still be okay with that. Isn't there some hazard for having inactive mods around? Something to do with their account?


I wonder if the argument will continue now.

Yes. This is a hot topic, whether you think so or not. :/

Locke Yggdrasill
19th February 2006, 9:25 PM
But apparently you're beings who pick out petty non-existant flaws in a forum. This is not a problem, the forums are relatively spam and n00b free, thus why moan?
Because the only way to go is up. ;D

I'd still be okay with that. Isn't there some hazard for having inactive mods around? Something to do with their account?
Second'd. Do we want another Jay? :<

PhQnix
19th February 2006, 9:33 PM
Second'd. Do we want another Jay? :<
That would involve the moderator actively distributing his/her password, this can occur at any time regardless of the mods activeness. In fact an active mod is more likely to get hacked off with the forums and distribute their password than someone who doesn't come here.


Because the only way to go is up. ;D
That assumes that demodding these people would actually benefit the forums, which it wouldn't.


Yes. This is a hot topic, whether you think so or not. :/
Actually if I proclaim it not to be a hot topic than it is immediately not a hot topic... D:

Locke Yggdrasill
19th February 2006, 9:39 PM
That assumes that demodding these people would actually benefit the forums, which it wouldn't.
How would it not benefit the forums?

That would involve the moderator actively distributing his/her password, this can occur at any time regardless of the mods activeness. In fact an active mod is more likely to get hacked off with the forums and distribute their password than someone who doesn't come here.
It seems as though a mod who forgot about the forum, and then realizing he/she was a mod at said forum would think it would be fun to try to mess with the system. It seems as though one would have more motivation due to perverted sense of humor in this case.

PhQnix
19th February 2006, 9:41 PM
How would it not benefit the forums?
What would change?


It seems as though a mod who forgot about the forum, and then realizing he/she was a mod at said forum would think it would be fun to try to mess with the system. It seems as though one would have more motivation due to perverted sense of humor in this case.
Do you think that Jasmine et al are going to screw the forums over? Besides unless they're an admin the damage can only be superficial, 'specially since the forums are backed up so regularly.

Ohtachi
19th February 2006, 9:43 PM
What would change?

Already modded members would take over the areas the inactive mods had. We'd see these areas better off.

PhQnix
19th February 2006, 9:48 PM
Already modded members would take over the areas the inactive mods had. We'd see these areas better off.
I was under the impression that no forum area is in desperate need of mods, if it was than would the topic not be centred more around "such and such" area needs modding, rather than "let's get rid of inactive mods".

Ohtachi
19th February 2006, 9:52 PM
I was under the impression that no forum area is in desperate need of mods, if it was than would the topic not be centred more around "such and such" area needs modding, rather than "let's get rid of inactive mods".

This topic can be centered around inactive mods and still give an idea of what some of the forums would be like if the were demodded. ;/
Besides, you're under the wrong impression IMO. None of the forums are in desperate need, but they don't have to be for some people. Just for you and some others who share your thoughts.

Lady Barbara
19th February 2006, 9:55 PM
LAdy Barbara, I'm aware of this. That's why I said that he didn't lose his internet connection. But don't you think that visiting once a month is a little ludacris ([/lame-joke]) for a mod+? :<
Nice pun. I do agree with you that mods should be active in the forums they're modding. However, not everybody has a ton of free time. Murg's a college graduate with (presumably) a full-time job.

You do have to consider what a mod brings to the job. In Murg's case, he speaks Japanese and is an excellent translator. He also can get screenshots from the anime and movies. Joe has to ask himself if he can find someone who can replace Murg (i.e., someone who can translate and get screenshots). It's not really a matter of demodding them just because they're inactive.

Ohtachi
19th February 2006, 9:57 PM
In Murg's case, he speaks Japanese and is an excellent translator. He also can get screenshots from the anime and movies. Joe has to ask himself if he can find someone who can replace Murg (i.e., someone who can translate and get screenshots). It's not really a matter of demodding them just because they're inactive.

Then Murg would make a great Site Staff Member. You don't have to be on the Site Staff and be a Mod. It'll only put more stress on Murgatroyd to be both, anyways.

Eszett
19th February 2006, 10:00 PM
But, does Murg do more for the site or the forums? Moderators of the forum should maintain a more active role within the forum itself being moderators of the forum and all, but if Murg is simply contributing to the site, he does not need the powers of a guardian for whatever sections he mods. This goes along with the medium-reward conjecture that I opined earlier: award accomplishments in a medium through the medium in which they are achieved. Chat members to chat ops, forum members to forum mods, and now site contributors to site updaters.

And PhQnix, I was suggesting that period of leeway to allow ample time to differentiate whether somebody has suffered unforeseen circumstances or is simply lazy.

Ohtachi
19th February 2006, 10:01 PM
But, does Murg do more for the site or the forums? Moderators of the forum should maintain a more active role within the forum itself being moderators of the forum and all, but if Murg is simply contributing to the site, he does not need the powers of a guardian for whatever sections he mods. This goes along with the medium-reward conjecture that I opined earlier: award accomplishments in a medium through the medium in which they are achieved. Chat members to chat ops, forum members to forum mods, and now site contributors to site updaters.

I agree fully. But does anyone else?

Locke Yggdrasill
19th February 2006, 10:02 PM
Chat members to chat ops, forum members to forum mods, and now site contributors to site updaters.
I agree wholeheartedly, but Joe has proved in the past that he'll let no one touch his site.

PhQnix
19th February 2006, 10:08 PM
And PhQnix, I was suggesting that period of leeway to allow ample time to differentiate whether somebody has suffered unforeseen circumstances or is simply lazy.
And someone couldn't lie about said circumstances?

Why demod someone then re-mod them, regardless of whether they are lazy or not if they wish to continue doing their job and doing it effeciently why get rid of them?

Eszett
19th February 2006, 10:09 PM
I agree wholeheartedly, but Joe has proved in the past that he'll let no one touch his site.Yeah, Joe is pretty obstinate about maintaining his dominion over the site, but it people like Murg and Coronis can update the site in lieu of him, it would relieve a great burden from his shoulders to maintain the site every day. Besides of which, with power comes responsibility. If these site regulars start mucking up the main site and post terrible, terrible LIES, they can always be demoted from their lofty positions.


And someone couldn't lie about said circumstances?

Why demod someone then re-mod them, regardless of whether they are lazy or not if they wish to continue doing their job and doing it effeciently why get rid of them?If he can substantiate that his Internet went down or something of the nature, then yeah, promote him once again. If he can reprove his worth, promote him.

But you're right, I'm starting to have second thoughts about the leeway period. Seems like it's not a necessity.

Magma Leader Maxie
19th February 2006, 10:19 PM
I agree wholeheartedly, but Joe has proved in the past that he'll let no one touch his site.

I wouldn't either if it was my site.

I don't think anyone's asked themselves just how difficult it is to trust someone on the net, especially for helping with a $300 mass of web documents, images and a gigabyte SQL database. It can't be as easy as it looks. Still, I have failed to see a longer period of the site lacking an update.

No one seems to take these things into consideration. But the last time I checked, humans come equipped with brains :<

Eszett
19th February 2006, 10:38 PM
Magma Leader Maxie, considering that this is still Joe's site he would have full discretion over what these site moguls could do with the site. Depending on his leniency towards the matter, I surmise that he could only let them post updates about various items in the main column, or he could allow them to update individiual sections of the site. It's not like he's completely surrending his power to these people; he would only give them as much power as he wants to give them.

However, it'd still be better than giving these people moderator positions at a forum in which they do not do much.

Magma Leader Maxie
19th February 2006, 10:47 PM
Magma Leader Maxie, considering that this is still Joe's site he would have full discretion over what these site moguls could do with the site. Depending on his leniency towards the matter, I surmise that he could only let them post updates about various items in the main column, or he could allow them to update individiual sections of the site. It's not like he's completely surrending his power to these people; he would only give them as much power as he wants to give them.

Since the site utilises server-side includes (unless I'm mistaken) it should be relatively easy for the site-oriented staff to send in seperate text documents to be integrated into the site. This might be the way that it's done, since it seems the most logical way to me. Unless the people who write articles for the site can have basic HTML dance naked infront of them and not know the difference. That seems unlikely to me, though. Currently, there's a system to get the updates up and put new info on the site. It works. Thus, it very likely won't be changed regardless of how big a fuss anyone creates.

Shining Mew
19th February 2006, 11:16 PM
2) She really shouldn't have checked/told you >>; I recall an admin a long time ago checking for a regular mod, and getting 'the whole nine yards' or w/e the saying was...


I dont see what the problem would be for saying when the last time someone modded is. Its not my fault they havent done anything. If they get ******, well **** that, you shouldve been doing something. Not like the members didnt see it coming either.

I wouldnt give a crap is someone posted my modding activities, modding is taking care of "public" problems so actions taken are therefor, public. My last was Feb 12. omfgz!

Wolf Goddess
19th February 2006, 11:50 PM
Question to those defending inactive mods: Is there any real reason to not demote them? If anything, the inactive Mods+ or higher are just taking positions of power away from regular mods who actually do something.

Ethereal
19th February 2006, 11:57 PM
Question to those defending inactive mods: Is there any real reason to not demote them? If anything, the inactive Mods+ or higher are just taking positions of power away from regular mods who actually do something.
100% agree with that.

Not like it really matters. Many of those that even REQUEST to be demodded are just ignored. That's one thing I really don't get. They don't want to be here anymore, but you make them stay/ignore their wishes. Another reason why I think certain people don't care.

PhQnix
19th February 2006, 11:58 PM
Question to those defending inactive mods: Is there any real reason to not demote them? If anything, the inactive Mods+ or higher are just taking positions of power away from regular mods who actually do something.
No, there is no reason. They do deserve demoting if they are restricting the chances of promotion for those who deserve a promotion. However why make such a big deal out of a seemingly trivial issue?

Eszett
20th February 2006, 12:35 AM
Plenty of the regular mods here would make great mod+s and certainly have show that they can handle the responsibility. They're on here day and night dutifully performing their actions, yet they are hampered by the latent mod+s that contribute little and seem to do little modding. And considering that several of these people do not even want to be modded, why is anybody disagreeing with their demotion? Regular members want it, the demotion-hungry mods want it, the other mods want it, who couldn't want it?

Locke Yggdrasill
20th February 2006, 12:37 AM
The lazy part of Joe. =P

Eszett
20th February 2006, 12:41 AM
It was a rhetorical question. :]

However, I hope this highlights that taking such action would be beyond auspicious for everyone involved. Outstanding regular members could ascend to the ranks of moderator, diligent moderators could acquire promotions, latent mods could have their burdens relieved, and Serebii won't get so much flak for being negligent about this matter. All it would take is a few minutes to distribute the demotions and promotions.

Zora
20th February 2006, 1:58 AM
But then again could way too much active mods cause a minor unbalance. Mey we would get use to the "unbalance." I do agree this isn't a top issue, but it is one worth discussing.

Locke Yggdrasill
20th February 2006, 2:34 AM
Err...an unbalance? How so?

Altair
20th February 2006, 3:05 AM
But then again could way too much active mods cause a minor unbalance. Mey we would get use to the "unbalance." I do agree this isn't a top issue, but it is one worth discussing.

I guess he means that there would be too many moderators doing to much modding and not really paying attention to what they're doing?
Or maybe so much modding that there would be a lot of threads closed?
I think the unbalance would be in the ratio of moderators to forum/members. Like, for every certain number of members there should be this number of moderators. Or for the type of forum, there should be this number of moderators, such as the TCG forum doesn't need that many moderators because there isn't much activity there, as someone already stated.

Locke Yggdrasill
20th February 2006, 3:11 AM
Or maybe so much modding that there would be a lot of threads closed?

There wouldn't be an over closure of threads if Joe/Jess picked moderators who know what the heck they're doing.

Zora
20th February 2006, 4:28 AM
By Unbalance I mean the increase in speed of modding. More of a change, not an "unbalance."

Altair
20th February 2006, 4:33 AM
Oh, thanks for clearing that up. Also, wouldn't an increase in the speed of modding be good?

EDIT: To Midnight (post #123), I deleted my other post, okay!

Zora
20th February 2006, 4:41 AM
Oh, thanks for clearing that up. Also, wouldn't an increase in the speed of modding be good?

here is the problem, people don't like change in ways that hurt them. Also with the speed, these forums are one stop closer too being speed demanding. Therefore with the slow and fast speed unbalancing (There is where I got unbalance from, btw) people may have different views of the forums, thus may result in different things. Though it may be a good thing. We can't see what is exactly behind the door of some inactive mods and active mods to pure active mods.

Angeling
20th February 2006, 4:47 AM
By Unbalance I mean the increase in speed of modding. More of a change, not an "unbalance."

Yes, like the above poster said, wouldn't an increase in speed for modding be for the best of the forums? There are a few unnecessary threads/posts that we see too often around the forums.

I've been stalking this thread for some time.. and I'm not going to side with the group wanting to demod certain staff or going on defence of the 'inactive' moderators, but perhaps some are still posting around but they just have a busy schedule that they can't stay on for long. Perhaps there are more staff members that are longer, without internet access or something like that. Since I don't know some staff members, I cannot say for sure what or how they were modded. Perhaps Joe had a reason to mod them until they were consumed by school work or just work in general.

Though the forums could use a few more moderators or a few more promotions to certain staff members, but sometimes not everyone can attend to the troublesome threads/posts at once because they too are humans.


Okay, maybe now you can ignore my post... >_>;; I probably didn't make much sense, did I now?

And I don't think a post with just "Lol, that's true." was necessary here.. whoops. Off-topic. *silence*

Chris
20th February 2006, 5:15 AM
Thank you for bringing this question to the staff's attention.

Unfortunately, no one but the staff is in any position to really say who should and shouldn't be demoted or demodded.

So in other words, leave it to us to decide on these things. Contrary to popular belief, we ARE on top of these issues very often. ;\