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son_gokan
28th February 2006, 8:58 AM
Well this is the DB thread. And remember it's canon only so if you talk about anything filler/movie/GT, then you will be banned from this thread and won't be allowed to post here.

Chris
28th February 2006, 9:04 AM
Talking high and mighty for someone with absolutely no power, aren't we?

Don't be a mini-mod.

And you say "canon only" when this "Z" does not exist in the manga. All 500+ chapters are Dragon Ball. Spanning from Son Goku's introduction to him and Oob flying off.

Also, it kinda helps if you don't make a thread for the sake of making a thread. Give something to discuss about. Bring up a subject or anything. Don't just say "Here it is, now discuss." Otherwise, that's spam. e_e

Kez
28th February 2006, 8:24 PM
Well, i have something to talk about. I think that my sources are cannon, well, that is if you include dub anime anyway.

Well, is Ghoan always stronger than Goku until majunbu saya? I mean, in the Drogonball manga, which is the first volume of DBZ in UK, Raditz mentions that Gohan has a power level much higher than Gokus. Also, in the anime during the cell games saga, it is mentioned that Gohon is more powerful than Goku. So, well, apart from namek and frieza saga, is gohan stronger than goku?

son_gokan
28th February 2006, 10:02 PM
yes, he is. After going in ROSAT, he is stronger than his father and even rivals Kanzentai Cell in power. Also he's stronger after getting his "mystic" or "ultimate" powerup. WAY stronger.... he beat the hell out of Super Boo.... and he's even stronger than Gotenks... even in his SSJ3 form....


Talking high and mighty for someone with absolutely no power, aren't we?

Don't be a mini-mod.

And you say "canon only" when this "Z" does not exist in the manga. All 500+ chapters are Dragon Ball. Spanning from Son Goku's introduction to him and Oob flying off.

Also, it kinda helps if you don't make a thread for the sake of making a thread. Give something to discuss about. Bring up a subject or anything. Don't just say "Here it is, now discuss." Otherwise, that's spam. e_e
Z exists in the american editions of the manga.. so I thought I'd just put it in...

Chris
1st March 2006, 1:00 AM
Gohan has always been stronger than Goku in many points of the story until Goku would return from training or had achieved a new power up.

Toriyama originally wanted Gohan to be the one to carry the torch until the fans and editors wanted Goku to take the center roll. This is obvious when he originally planned to have Goku and Freeza die. Gohan was also originally meant to kill Majin Boo. Unfortunately, the fans and editors wanted Goku back.

One of Gohan's problems, however, was controlling his dormant power. Gohan had the capabilities of taking on Nappa. Unfortunately, the only time he was really capable of doing so was after Piccolo's death and he used up all of his energy on his Masenko, which didn't exactly do much.

Which brings us to another thing. Gohan's power only rose through extreme anger. When Gohan saw that Freeza nearly killed Kuririn after spearing him, he laid down a brutal attack on him. Even though he wasn't able to do much, he was still capable of actually hitting Freeza and causing him some kind of pain. And his Super Saiyan transformations were the results of bursts of anger. During his training with Goku in the Room of Spirit and Time and realizing he was no match for anyone at his current power. And then when Cell smashed #16's head and ordering the Cell Jr. to kill Son Goku and his friends, all while mocking #16 for being worthless.

Gohan's power up in the Boo saga actually was stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. Though Gohan was up against a Majin Boo that had absorbed Piccolo and Gotenks and was beaten, while Goku faced against a powered down Boo, though he was low on energy from trying to power up at full strength with Super Saiyan 3.

son_gokan
1st March 2006, 6:31 AM
Gohan has always been stronger than Goku in many points of the story until Goku would return from training or had achieved a new power up.

Toriyama originally wanted Gohan to be the one to carry the torch until the fans and editors wanted Goku to take the center roll. This is obvious when he originally planned to have Goku and Freeza die. Gohan was also originally meant to kill Majin Boo. Unfortunately, the fans and editors wanted Goku back.

One of Gohan's problems, however, was controlling his dormant power. Gohan had the capabilities of taking on Nappa. Unfortunately, the only time he was really capable of doing so was after Piccolo's death and he used up all of his energy on his Masenko, which didn't exactly do much.

Which brings us to another thing. Gohan's power only rose through extreme anger. When Gohan saw that Freeza nearly killed Kuririn after spearing him, he laid down a brutal attack on him. Even though he wasn't able to do much, he was still capable of actually hitting Freeza and causing him some kind of pain. And his Super Saiyan transformations were the results of bursts of anger. During his training with Goku in the Room of Spirit and Time and realizing he was no match for anyone at his current power. And then when Cell smashed #16's head and ordering the Cell Jr. to kill Son Goku and his friends, all while mocking #16 for being worthless.

Gohan's power up in the Boo saga actually was stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. Though Gohan was up against a Majin Boo that had absorbed Piccolo and Gotenks and was beaten, while Goku faced against a powered down Boo, though he was low on energy from trying to power up at full strength with Super Saiyan 3.
We're all aware of that. There was no reason to go that much into detail... anyway let's start up a new topic... say..

how many plot holes are there in canon?

Here are the ones I've noticed so far:

1. Goku's hair getting cut up in a chapter, and then growing back again.

2. Power Levels being lower than they should have been in late DB.

3. Raditz keeping his body and fighting enma.

4. Cell surviving Goku's Teleportation Kamehameha. The cluster of Cell's in his head that make up his "Nucleus" and allow him to keep regenerating were destroyed, and would have made him dead

5. Goku not being able to move with 40 tons, when logic states he should've been able to do that when he first fought Vegeta.

6. Many PL inconsistansies in the Boo saga.

UberSorcerer
1st March 2006, 12:20 PM
Just a little cannon Fact Burdock of

A Lonesome, Final Battle: The Father of Z-Warrior Kakarrot, who Challenged Freeza
(Bardock, Father of Goku funimation reliant people)

is the ONLY CHARACTER from TOEI to become cannon, He is shown in the Freeza ark of Dragon Ball

Kez
1st March 2006, 5:04 PM
We're all aware of that. There was no reason to go that much into detail... anyway let's start up a new topic... say..
What are you talking about, of course there was a reason to go into that much detail. It opened a lot of points and made what he was thinking and why clear.


Gohan has always been stronger than Goku in many points of the story until Goku would return from training or had achieved a new power up.

Toriyama originally wanted Gohan to be the one to carry the torch until the fans and editors wanted Goku to take the center roll. This is obvious when he originally planned to have Goku and Freeza die. Gohan was also originally meant to kill Majin Boo. Unfortunately, the fans and editors wanted Goku back.

One of Gohan's problems, however, was controlling his dormant power. Gohan had the capabilities of taking on Nappa. Unfortunately, the only time he was really capable of doing so was after Piccolo's death and he used up all of his energy on his Masenko, which didn't exactly do much.

Which brings us to another thing. Gohan's power only rose through extreme anger. When Gohan saw that Freeza nearly killed Kuririn after spearing him, he laid down a brutal attack on him. Even though he wasn't able to do much, he was still capable of actually hitting Freeza and causing him some kind of pain. And his Super Saiyan transformations were the results of bursts of anger. During his training with Goku in the Room of Spirit and Time and realizing he was no match for anyone at his current power. And then when Cell smashed #16's head and ordering the Cell Jr. to kill Son Goku and his friends, all while mocking #16 for being worthless.

Gohan's power up in the Boo saga actually was stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. Though Gohan was up against a Majin Boo that had absorbed Piccolo and Gotenks and was beaten, while Goku faced against a powered down Boo, though he was low on energy from trying to power up at full strength with Super Saiyan 3.
I am basing my opinions on what i have seen in the anime, which i have heard to be very similar to the manga, so if i state something wrong, please state it.
Well, i would have thought that SS3 Goku was much stronger then Gohon, as it was made out like the only person who could have saved the world was Goku. But i may be wrong. Also, did the old Kai raise Gohons powers that much? I have yet to read that far in the anime.

Chris
1st March 2006, 7:40 PM
6. Many PL inconsistansies in the Boo saga.
Even though he can't read this, lemme clear this up for everyone else.

There are NO SUCH THING AS POWER LEVELS DURING THE BOO SAGA. Battle Powers were simply estimates of one's total amount of Ki. These were all from the Scouters, which no longer appeared once Freeza and his father and minions were killed.


Well, i would have thought that SS3 Goku was much stronger then Gohon, as it was made out like the only person who could have saved the world was Goku. But i may be wrong. Also, did the old Kai raise Gohons powers that much? I have yet to read that far in the anime.
Well, Super Saiyan 3 Goku is stronger than Gohan before the Grand Elder Kaioshin releases Gohan's hidden potential. This "power up" of Gohan's is simply all of his hidden powers drawn out to their fullest. He no longer needed to become extremely mad to use them.

Super Saiyan 3 Goku was no longer the strongest once Gotenks came around and became Super Saiyan 3. However, after Gohan's power up and training with the Z-Sword on the Kaioshin planet, he became stronger. The problem is that Goku couldn't really make full use of Super Saiyan 3 for long since it saps away his energy and time left in the human realm. Though we do see that he's still absolutely no match even for the fat Majin Boo, whereas Gohan is easily pummeling "Super" Boo before he absorbs Gotenks and Piccolo.

Kez
3rd March 2006, 8:16 PM
Super Saiyan 3 Goku was no longer the strongest once Gotenks came around and became Super Saiyan 3. However, after Gohan's power up and training with the Z-Sword on the Kaioshin planet, he became stronger. The problem is that Goku couldn't really make full use of Super Saiyan 3 for long since it saps away his energy and time left in the human realm. Though we do see that he's still absolutely no match even for the fat Majin Boo, whereas Gohan is easily pummeling "Super" Boo before he absorbs Gotenks and Piccolo.
You do raise some very valid points, ones which make perfect sence, but what i never thought of. So, is Gohon stronger than Gotenks? there isnt really anything to compare them by that i can think of, so i thought that you might know.

Also, is there ever any mention of a female super saian(sp?) in the manga? And if so, what does there appearence change to?

MagicBox
4th March 2006, 12:58 AM
So, is Gohon stronger than Gotenks? there isnt really anything to compare them by that i can think of, so i thought that you might know.In the Buu saga, yes, Gohan is stronger than Gotenks. The easiest way to tell is how Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks was getting destroyed by "Super" Buu, and then Gohan showed up and beat the crap out of him after his hidden powers were awakened.


Also, is there ever any mention of a female super saian(sp?) in the manga? And if so, what does there appearence change to?There aren't any female Super Saiyans anywhere in the entire DB/Z/GT series, nor is there any mention of one.

Kez
4th March 2006, 3:42 PM
Thanks for answering my reply. Also, when does garlic junior make his first appearence? In the anime, it is before DBZ and after DB, where, if ever does he appear in the manga?

MagicBox
4th March 2006, 5:19 PM
Thanks for answering my reply. Also, when does garlic junior make his first appearence? In the anime, it is before DBZ and after DB, where, if ever does he appear in the manga?Garlic Jr. is a character created only in the anime, so he isn't in the manga at all. His movie and his saga in the anime were created by Toei Animation, and many fans hate the saga because of the plot holes.

Kez
4th March 2006, 6:36 PM
So, when he appears in the anime, it is a filler episode? I always thought that that would bne the same. Also, what happens in the manga during the time after the namek saga and before trunks appears?

MagicBox
5th March 2006, 3:00 AM
So, when he appears in the anime, it is a filler episode?Yep, his whole saga was filler.


Also, what happens in the manga during the time after the namek saga and before trunks appears?Nothing. It goes straight from the Freeza Saga to the Trunks Saga.

Luke Groundwalker
5th March 2006, 11:03 PM
Okay, I have some questions.

1. Is Pikkon in the manga?
2. What episodes in Dragon Ball are considered to be filler (I know, not a manga question, but this is a Dragon Ball canon thread)?
3. How old is Son Goku at the end of Dragon Ball?
4. Could Gohan go SSJ in his Mystic Form?
5. How many references to Dr. Slump are there?
6. Are there other references of other series in Dragon Ball (insted of Dr. Slump)?

Meh, that's all of the questions I have right now. :\

MagicBox
5th March 2006, 11:28 PM
1. Is Pikkon in the manga?No, the Other World Tournament was all filler.


3. How old is Son Goku at the end of Dragon Ball?I think he's 19, and at the start of DBZ, he's 24. I could be wrong on this one, though.


4. Could Gohan go SSJ in his Mystic Form?I imagine he could, but it would be absolutely useless. His power up from Old Kai made it so that he didn't have to turn into a Super Saiyan to get to his full potential.

I can't answer the other questions, though. Sorry, I'm not a manga expert, so I don't know what was filler and what wasn't. I've never kept track of the Dr. Slump references either, but I know that in the General Blue Saga, the characters appear to help Goku out, and they also appear in the thrid movie.

Luke Groundwalker
5th March 2006, 11:41 PM
I think he's 19, and at the start of DBZ, he's 24. I could be wrong on this one, though.
No, I mean at the end of DBZ. -_- I just said the end of Dragon Ball because the whole manga was just called "Dragon Ball" in Japan.

MagicBox
6th March 2006, 12:21 AM
No, I mean at the end of DBZ. -_- I just said the end of Dragon Ball because the whole manga was just called "Dragon Ball" in Japan.Sorry, I still haven't entirely switched from my anime knowledge to my manga knowledge yet. *Embarrassed*

He's 47.

Chris
6th March 2006, 12:21 AM
I can answer the Toriyama stuff. As far as I can recall, four Dr. Slump references are made in the manga. One where Toriyama's robotic counterpart is climbing a tree and asking to himself "Is this Penguin Village?", another where Mai holds up a stick with dung on it and Pilaf remarks that there are to be no Dr. Slump gags, Goku visits Penguin Village after trying to get his Dragon Radar fixed and Senbei comments that he hasn't been in the spotlight for a good while when asked why he's posing around. The final time is actually on the spines of three of the tankouban (graphic novels). On Dragon Ball Volumes 30 through 32, Kaio is chasing everyone with a dung-on-a-stick. The whole dung-on-a-stick bit comes from Arale's obsession with feces.

As for other references, as far as I know, only Dr. Slump has been referenced since that was Toriyama's only most well known work before Dragon Ball.

Goku's age at the end of Dragon Ball is 47.