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View Full Version : What if Pokémon was a bit more mature.



Sayo
5th March 2006, 12:30 PM
And by that, I mean the anime. We all know that Pokémon is more for children and etc. but what if they make an alternative anime of Pokémon with the same people (Ash and co) and the same storyline (badges/ribbons) but everything was a bit matured. For example, they could add a bit violance, maybe cursing (but not too harsh words) and so on.

Well, not exactly make a new version and start all over, but let's imagine the anime was directed to older people, maybe 13+, how do you think everything would've changed?

Chatsy
5th March 2006, 12:45 PM
I wouldn't mind if there was a bit of blood in the Pokémon battles, just to give it that extra touch of what kinds of powers we're dealing with.
When some of the characters fall, I want them to get hurt rather than they boink off of their butts again and then continue their daily lives.

In other words, I want them to go with the same realistic theme like in the early Pokémon episodes - Like when Charmander was about to die because its flame was fading and the cast almost drowned in SS. Anne.

I would pretty much adore it if the anime had its rating rasied.

m0jj0
5th March 2006, 12:46 PM
What if they took away Mays sweater and put a bikini on her and just let it be like that, that would kick ***..

Bedouin Pirate
5th March 2006, 12:47 PM
I think Team Rocket would be a little more interesting. Rather than them being cheesy wannabee villains I could see them actually being evil, a little more malicious with their actions, and more successful. You see them with a new Pokemon every now and then, one that they stole, perhaps with some TR technological neck brace on it that forces it to battle for them. I could see them attacking humans with their Pokemon too, out of sheer viciousness.

I think the characters themselves, at leats the main trio (or quad when Max is introduced) would be older by a couple of years, with Ash as say 17 rather than 11/12. There'd be more love interests between the main characters, perhaps a love triangle that splits the main grouping from time to time.

My version is kind of aimed at the same audience as the Justice League series.

Sayo
5th March 2006, 12:49 PM
What if they took away Mays sweater and put a bikini on her and just let it be like that, that would kick ***..

That's nice but wouldn't she freeze?

+Erin+
5th March 2006, 12:50 PM
a bit of swering and blood will do no harm

m0jj0
5th March 2006, 12:52 PM
If she freezes then Ash could make her warm..

Astinus
5th March 2006, 1:00 PM
(Would have commented on previous posts, but I'm nice when tired.)
Pokémon more mature? Blood in battles would be a realistic touch. Same with aging. (My gods, wouldn't Ash look a wee bit older by now?)

But, if Pokémon was more mature, than we couldn't have Team Rocket be electrocuted as many times as they have. By now, they would be dead. Same with Ash being toasted by Charizard. Yum...Crispy Ash... (I believe I just made a joke.)

Yamato-san
5th March 2006, 1:06 PM
(Would have commented on previous posts, but I'm nice when tired.)
Pokémon more mature? Blood in battles would be a realistic touch. Same with aging. (My gods, wouldn't Ash look a wee bit older by now?)

Actually, Satoshi does look older than he does in the first series, and several people can agree he's now in his early teens based on that appearance.

Shigeru-kun
5th March 2006, 1:09 PM
A better style of animation. I'm not saying the animation we have now is bad or anything, but compare it to something like Gundam SEED? Bah. Pokemon's current style just wouldn't work too well with a mature theme. I mean...look at the monsters! Even the evil or disturbing ones look cute. At least in the case of Digimon you actually had monsters who looked rather freaky.

So yes...better animation all the way. It wouldn't even have to be as extreme as Gundam SEED, that was just an example. My point is that it would help a lot. ^^;

Otherwise in the actual point of content...I'm going agree with Chatsy. Having some realistic violence would be nice for a change.

Heracross
5th March 2006, 1:19 PM
Well, it'd be nice to have our comical violence and guns back. :/

XanderWolf
5th March 2006, 1:34 PM
LEGEND OF DRATINI OMG SHOOTING PEOPLE WITH GUNS :O

But it's perfectly alright to throw bombs and other weapons of mass destruction at people.

BUT NO SHOOTING PEOPLE. IT KILLS.

Bombs just make them turn black and have bad hair for a couple seconds. :<

Heracross
5th March 2006, 1:44 PM
Apperently it's not ok to have bombs anymore either. When was the last time we've seen one of those in the show?

XanderWolf
5th March 2006, 1:49 PM
That's just because everyone's all "ONOEZ U CANT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT TERORIZM, BOMBS, WEAPONZ OF DESTRUKSHEN, TOWERS, SCARES IN THE AIR, INFERNOS, OR CROUTONZ.

U MYTE OFEND PPL!"

Get over it, people. Please? --;

The Big Al
5th March 2006, 1:53 PM
It would have been nice if the show was geared to a wider demographic. At least plotwise it could stand some growing up. Seriously, how many times do we have to see Team Rocket get blasted to Kingdom Come? At least give us something new and cop out on it coughmagmaaquacough.

ChaosMage
5th March 2006, 1:57 PM
That's nice but wouldn't she freeze?

That'll help confirm the answer to an age-old question- what are May's erected nipples really like?

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
5th March 2006, 2:20 PM
What if they took away Mays sweater and put a bikini on her and just let it be like that, that would kick ***..
er no..... I don't think TVTokyo want May fans like you and me to ever be happy in that way


and I would like to see some more relistice fights, and yes, bloodshed

and maybe an actual SHIPPING! no more hints, just give us a shipping! (advanceshipping maybe =3)

Omega Pirate
5th March 2006, 2:47 PM
I think the show would be alot better with the absence of team rocket every now and then. Blood would be more realistic, the battles are pretty realistic as is but with slahing sort of attacks it would be better if it actually left a mark.

Gravy
5th March 2006, 4:15 PM
I couldn't give a crap about blood or swearing, because that doesn't make a show more mature at all.

If we had some more meaningful character development (That includes the supporting cast, the pokémon themselves and main characters), a bit more imagination concerning the appearence and function of some of the more formulaic attacks, more frequent use of the more capable animation directors, more comical violence and some sort of coherant storyline that builds up to a dramatic climax as the quest continues, then everything would be swell.
Thats all this show is lacking.

ChaosMage
5th March 2006, 4:24 PM
If the show was closer to the games, that would suit me. Pokemon being more violent would lose its charm, and its morals would be wasted.

CyberCubed
5th March 2006, 4:57 PM
All the show really needs is to keep the goals for the main characters (such as the Gyms/Contests), but also include an arc about villains or such.

Hoenn attempted that with Team Magma/Aqua, but they hardly ever appeared, and the climax left much to be desired.

Obviously there would still be episodes where the gang capture/train/evolve/battle new Pokemon, as well as episodes made simply to debut new Pokemon, but if the show had villains who were a real threat for once, it would be great.

Hoenn would have been perfect if Team Magma/Aqua appeared more often and had a long story arc with strong continuity.

Omega Pirate
5th March 2006, 5:01 PM
I don't see the point of Team Rocket anymore. They're useless and are no match for Ash and co. and never really were. Team Aqua and Magma should have replaced Rocket at Hoenn.

skarmachild
5th March 2006, 5:53 PM
I couldn't give a crap about blood or swearing, because that doesn't make a show more mature at all.

If we had some more meaningful character development (That includes the supporting cast, the pokémon themselves and main characters), a bit more imagination concerning the appearence and function of some of the more formulaic attacks, more frequent use of the more capable animation directors, more comical violence and some sort of coherant storyline that builds up to a dramatic climax as the quest continues, then everything would be swell.
Thats all this show is lacking.

Then heavens someone replied like that. Making something "Mature" doesn't mean give it blood/swearing and whatnot. I agree with the storyline bit you said. Instead of rushing one episode by closing it (e.g Pokemon Ranger + Celebi ep), there should be like 2 parts to it (e.g Blaine Gym Battle + SS. Anne), that way it holds more tension to it, instead of ending the episode really quickly. If the directors could get back to the Kanto days (but combined with the awesome BF fights), then it would be much better. But I'm not sure I'd like to watch it if Ash started swearing 24/7 and blood on the screen at all times.

Mew2
5th March 2006, 6:45 PM
Yeah, I don't think that it needs more blood or cursing. It could, however, touch upon some other issues. Why not have an episode where a hesitation to fight is what allows TR or some other evil organization to succeed. Maybe next time the gang overreacts and hurts or nearly kills the pokemon that they were trying to rescue. Force them to mature to find a balance. And that's only the beginning. They could focus on family issues as well. Delve into who Ash's father really is and why he left. Did he leave willingly? What is going on with him? I would also have Ash smarter when dealing with Team Rocket. He's smart in pokemon battles, yet he can't see through TR's disguises a lot of the time.

I'd also have Team Rocket (JJ&M) face the facts of what TR really is. Maybe have Giovanni's Team Rocket hurt or kill some pokemon and/or humans for not carrying out orders or for just getting in the way. Have the Rocket grunts be thugs and not care about hurting or killing, in fact, have them enjoy it. Maybe even force the main characters (Ash and the gang) to use deadly force against them in order to save other people and pokemon's lives. No blood would even be needed. JJ&M would then be forced to make a choice: take the easy way out with Team Rocket and do what they do (if they choose this, I would kill them at the end of the arc), or follow their conscience and join Ash and friends in stopping Giovanni once and for all. The target audience for my version would be the same target demographic as the JLU series.

And this is only the beginning of what could be done. Of course, Ash's goals would still be the same but in my arc, he'd actually win the League competition.

sam_h12
5th March 2006, 7:20 PM
Stronger Pokemon

Jesse GS the II
5th March 2006, 8:22 PM
A more mature version of "Pokémon"? Gee, why does this concept sound so familar to me?

ash5550
5th March 2006, 8:30 PM
In my opinion, it could amek more SENSE. A person can't be electroucuted that many times and still be alive. Their bodies would collapse. And do somethings that people would do in real life. Say, go to the bathroom once in a while? Nobody can keep a pot that big in a backpack thats wide, not big.

The Big Al
5th March 2006, 8:41 PM
A more mature version of "Pokémon"? Gee, why does this concept sound so familar to me?
Because people have begging for it since Johto. Not to mention many fanfics are better than the actual show which is kind of sickening when you think about it.

Puffs
5th March 2006, 8:48 PM
Because people have begging for it since Johto. Not to mention many fanfics are better than the actual show which is kind of sickening when you think about it.

I burst into laughter when I read that, thanks. But you're right, even continuity is a problem right now.

blaze boy
5th March 2006, 9:16 PM
If pokemon was mature then 4Kids won't dub it or cut a lot of part out like sonic x.

Satoshi
5th March 2006, 9:32 PM
In my opinion, it could amek more SENSE. A person can't be electroucuted that many times and still be alive. Their bodies would collapse. And do somethings that people would do in real life. Say, go to the bathroom once in a while? Nobody can keep a pot that big in a backpack thats wide, not big. Even it was more mature, it'll STILL have it's cartoony anime effects, such as people still being alive and being burnt to a crisp after getting electricuted/burned.

And more blood and swearing in the show doesn't make it more mature. Just the idea of it have blood and swearing in it just doesn't make sense, considering its based on a game aimed at all ages. Its better to stick with the aimed 7-12 demographic age. Thank you.

You people honestly yearn for the show to have the word "fu** you" every five minutes, don't you? All the show needs is more character developement, more nostalgia, and more continuity. Not blood or swearing or any of that crap.

The Big Al
5th March 2006, 9:39 PM
Even that is now marginalized except for Team Rocket. Man, they've gutted the soul out of Pokemon over the past several years.

The Benmeister
5th March 2006, 9:46 PM
You'd think the show would already be like this considering some of the Pokedex entries of the more menacing Pokemon (like the fact with no belt Machoke is unstoppable). They could have made a lot out of that. Instead, the opposing Pokemon/filler character becomes good just to help blast off Team Rocket.

If anything swearing makes something LESS mature. Blood wouldn't hurt though, I suppose it would be more realistic.

Chatsy
5th March 2006, 10:03 PM
When I mean blood of injures, then I'm referring to when one of the characters get hit by Poison Sting and such for example.
I mean, several times Ash has been hit by such attacks, and the only thing we see is he cringes but yet continues. We don't see the stings actually hit him nor give him any cuts. They just like.... fly by and Ash makes grimasses of it.

And since Lara from the Ponyts episode way back in the days could break her arm from getting thrown off of Ponyta, one would think other characters would at least get a little bruise of falling down TR traps, right? o.o
Not all the time, of course. That would get annoying after a while, but really.

Just to create a little more action and tension in to the show.

I especially want them to break this....yeah, "taboo" of mentioning "death". "Going to another place" just doesn't cut it.

Not that I want the show to be completely "dark" and such - But just give it that extra little touch of reality and relation to the games. Heck, I want a cemetary in to the show, or the used to be existence of one, just to see what would happen if the gang slept in a forest very close to one, and ghost Pokémon appear and whatnot.

..

Good god, I need to lay off of the fanfiction reading.

Jesse GS the II
5th March 2006, 10:32 PM
Because people have begging for it since Johto. Not to mention many fanfics are better than the actual show which is kind of sickening when you think about it.

Well, I was actually making an overt reference to my own fanfic, "Pokémon: Intensity", which I've been working on since approximately 2002. But you still have a valid point.

Alfonso
5th March 2006, 10:40 PM
Stronger Pokemon

Care to elaborate of that point? It's pretty much SPAM the way it is now. Stronger how? More Metagross/Tyranitar/Dragonite? Or is there really an explantion behind it relating to the show becoming more mature? I don't think so, so it's not really a relevent or worthwhile post. ._. Edit please. I don't tolerate pathetic posts like that.

The show doesn't really need bloody, violence or swearing. Some intelligent episodes or plot arcs, or emotional episodes that extend further than 'Oh, Pikachu might be gone forever! D:'. Hell, even Team Rocket (The organisation.) doing something worthwhile would be pretty interesting.

Failing that, have Roxanne appear naked. :3

Mystify
5th March 2006, 11:03 PM
I feel all we need to make Pokemon more mature is to GET RID OF THEM SAYING THEIR GODDAMNED NAMES OVER AND OVER!

It just doesn't make any sense, how if a Charmander says "Char, char, char" That translates into "I'm hungry. Let's eat.

Also, if Pokemon talk by saying their own name, how would a pokemon say their own name?

Why oh why can't pokemon just have cries, like in the games?

Satoshi
5th March 2006, 11:11 PM
Sure, the Pokemon making two-bit data shrieks would REALLY make the anime more mature. -_- Yeah.

Gravy
5th March 2006, 11:19 PM
In animé, it's pretty much a staple for animals (or at least, fictional ones) to say their own name. In Kirby you have a monster like Poppon saying 'Pon!' or in Sonic you have Cheese shreiking 'Chao!', for the more recognisable examples. Its nothing new and they've been doing it for years.

Though depending on which version you watch, the way this is handled tends to differ from time to time. In the original, most pokémon will just utter one or two sylables of their name and that will be all. They don't outright say their entire name (bar a few), so you never hear Combusken saying 'Wakashamo! WakaWakaWakashamo!' or Corphish saying 'Heigani Hei, Heigani!' for example.
Whilst in the dub each pokémon has to say its entire name, more often than not. There are some pretty decent voices in there, thats for sure, but I can see how irritating it must get for some people.


But man. What I wouldn't give for a show that has dogs barking 'DOG! DOG!' or Cows occassionally 'Coooooowwww'ing. http://www.serebiiforums.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

PDL
5th March 2006, 11:24 PM
what I would want for the show to mature... more satire...

I'd like it if the show had more satire and more "adult-ish" jokes... even though strangely enough, 4Kids tends to sneak them in past censors and such.

Shigeru
5th March 2006, 11:27 PM
You people are weird. Obviously a good percentage of the people posting here aren't really mature. I mean, a good percentage of you are forgetting that Pokemon creator Satoshi Taijiri has a very negative opinion of violence, so there is definitely going to be no bloodshed. And I like May as she is portrayed now; a cute, sweet little girl (not the way the stupid teen males portray her).
Now, to the topic. I personally wouldn't mind the show to have a bit more depth and a little less silliness, but some people like the show that way, and that appeals to the age demographic (compare with Yoshi fans). Most of all, I do not want to entertain any bashing notions, and I am against bashing of any sort. Geesh, sometimes you people remind me of Star Wars haters/Lucas bashers.

Puffs
5th March 2006, 11:36 PM
not every pokemon just says it's name, a lot of them make suiting, natural sounding cries. Butterfree, Deoxys, and... FLYGON all have organic and pleasing voices in the anime.

Evanji Axu
6th March 2006, 12:08 AM
Although some more mature themes would go well in movies, they'd ruin the fun, colorful, cheerful TV series.

PDL
6th March 2006, 12:11 AM
they need more dramatic moments, as they did in Indigo.

Heracross
6th March 2006, 1:02 AM
I would add to that, but I fear the responses.

taitofan
6th March 2006, 1:21 AM
Mature, huh? Forget blood and swearing. We'd have competent villains, more fanservice, some decent character development with background info on the characters...

And Harley would have a boyfriend.

But hey, that's what fanart and fanfiction are for.

Yamato-san
6th March 2006, 1:38 AM
not every pokemon just says it's name, a lot of them make suiting, natural sounding cries. Butterfree, Deoxys, and... FLYGON all have organic and pleasing voices in the anime.

Though the examples you listed keep their voices from the Japanese anyway, which just further proves Gravy's point.


In animé, it's pretty much a staple for animals (or at least, fictional ones) to say their own name. In Kirby you have a monster like Poppon saying 'Pon!' or in Sonic you have Cheese shreiking 'Chao!', for the more recognisable examples. Its nothing new and they've been doing it for years.

Though depending on which version you watch, the way this is handled tends to differ from time to time. In the original, most pokémon will just utter one or two sylables of their name and that will be all. They don't outright say their entire name (bar a few), so you never hear Combusken saying 'Wakashamo! WakaWakaWakashamo!' or Corphish saying 'Heigani Hei, Heigani!' for example.
Whilst in the dub each pokémon has to say its entire name, more often than not. There are some pretty decent voices in there, thats for sure, but I can see how irritating it must get for some people.


But man. What I wouldn't give for a show that has dogs barking 'DOG! DOG!' or Cows occassionally 'Coooooowwww'ing. http://www.serebiiforums.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

The thing is, in anime, it's a staple for fictional creatures to say their own name when trying to sound cute (it's worth noting that nearly all Digimon can talk, so there'd really be no point in them saying their name as a call. But Culumon, an adorably cute Digimon, constantly says "culu" throughout its sentences). Some people might have this problem with Pokemon because, while the name-saying thing could work with the cute creatures, it doesn't bode as well with them when it comes to the big, tough, vicious-looking powerhouse badasses. But as you said, for such Pokemon, they do a good job in the Japanese version, not only because they just say a portion of their name, but also because they make it seem very animalistic when they say it. I'm surprised you didn't bring up Juptor as one of your examples (who has a nice, growly "Jurururu" in Japan, but has probably the worst, unfitting voice of all Pokemon in the dub).

Puffs
6th March 2006, 1:43 AM
Though the examples you listed keep their voices from the Japanese anyway, which just further proves Gravy's point.

I see your point. But it wouldn't make sense for Jigglypuff to be saying "Pupu! Purin!", or for Purin to cry "Jiggly! Jigglypuff!"

It's all about the English names, not the dubbers.

Heracross
6th March 2006, 1:46 AM
That never kept them from allowing Typhlosion to go about yelling "Baku!"

Ralts Master
6th March 2006, 1:49 AM
Whoever said "competent villains" got it right. I thought we finally had some with Teams Aqua and Magma, but you know how that turned out...

And personally, I'd like more background and information on the Pokemon world itself. If the information we get from the games is accurate, there's some real interesting stuff that's happened there (Lt. Surge, referred to as "the Lightning American", mentions a war he fought in, for example)

V Faction
6th March 2006, 1:50 AM
Dunsparce: Kill Me Kill Me! Kill! Me!

More mature? Sex scenes.

Puffs
6th March 2006, 2:24 AM
I think the most mature thing we've seen in Pokemon was all of the angst, violence, and philosophy in Mewtwo's storyline

~Sirnight~
6th March 2006, 2:44 AM
Though the examples you listed keep their voices from the Japanese anyway, which just further proves Gravy's point.



The thing is, in anime, it's a staple for fictional creatures to say their own name when trying to sound cute (it's worth noting that nearly all Digimon can talk, so there'd really be no point in them saying their name as a call. But Culumon, an adorably cute Digimon, constantly says "culu" throughout its sentences). Some people might have this problem with Pokemon because, while the name-saying thing could work with the cute creatures, it doesn't bode as well with them when it comes to the big, tough, vicious-looking powerhouse badasses. But as you said, for such Pokemon, they do a good job in the Japanese version, not only because they just say a portion of their name, but also because they make it seem very animalistic when they say it. I'm surprised you didn't bring up Juptor as one of your examples (who has a nice, growly "Jurururu" in Japan, but has probably the worst, unfitting voice of all Pokemon in the dub).

I was just thinking how funny it would be to here Mewtwo going: "Mewtwo" all the time.

Alfonso
6th March 2006, 2:51 AM
I was just thinking how funny it would be to here Mewtwo going: "Mewtwo" all the time.

It did say it's name in the old fashioned Pokemon style once: In the 'Bye Bye Psyduck' episode's 'Who's that Pokemon?', as a matter of interest.

It said 'MEW-TWO' rather... freakly. o_o

The Big Al
6th March 2006, 3:02 AM
It said it slowly like it needed time to sink into skulls or something.

But it would be nice if the Pokemon made animalistic sounds (not those crap sounds that make in the games).

Raevell
6th March 2006, 4:10 PM
I am surprised that no one has mentioned the DenGeki Pikachu manga. That was a great example of taking Pokemon and making it for a teen audience. Now while I am not for the extreme fanservice towards boys that had (we have doujinshi and fanart for that amount of boobs, thank you) they did touch on some issues in a more mature manner. The Sabrina arc was a nice dramantic/mature story line and dealing with the idea that Pokemon can be evil and can do harm. It even got into the idea about the school system and why no one has to attend.

The style was certainly more realistic.

Hey, we even had blood. XD Personally I would flip over the idea of someone taking that way of story telling Pokemon and turning it into an anime.

And I am also referring to the beginning of the comics, it got dubbed down in the last arcs of the story line.

PDL
6th March 2006, 4:18 PM
I see your point. But it wouldn't make sense for Jigglypuff to be saying "Pupu! Purin!", or for Purin to cry "Jiggly! Jigglypuff!"

It's all about the English names, not the dubbers.

they could at least try to make the english names at least sound like their Japanese counterparts, instead of just repeating their entire names with little effort.

ChaosMage
6th March 2006, 10:15 PM
I'd want some good character development, some more realistic and mature themes (i.e. death) and more tension. Plus I'd like a lot more long-running storylines which hold together better.

Kabuto
6th March 2006, 11:31 PM
I would like a more mature Pokemon. Not a swearing blood galore ZOMGZ. I want a more mature storyline including darker backstories for trainers and more action themed battles. More impotantly strategies that make sense and relate to the games.

Geki
7th March 2006, 12:20 AM
Pokemon should have the same episodes a bit more mature. Some of the stuff on the anime is too kiddy.

Korobooshi Kojiro
7th March 2006, 12:21 AM
More Mature...howabout Ash's meeting with Scott.

Scot: I got some candy for ya, hehehe
Ash:Cool!
Scott:Your mine!!

--------------------
I like Pokemon as how it is!

Astinus
7th March 2006, 1:10 AM
Okay...Again. Maturity is not just sex and swearing. Just read a bit of On Writing by Stephen King, and in it, he says that swearing is the "language of the ignorant." Sex...pah. Putting the thing in the thing and doing the thing leads to some really bad decisions, that could be changed had the people doing the thing had the maturity to think through their decision. When all that maturity is bowls down to just sex and swearing, that's just sad.

I still say a bit more realisim to battles. Little kids don't know that someone can get seriously hurt being slashed across the face, or rammed into a concrete wall. How many times did a Pokémon get thrown into a wall, and all that the Pokémon needed was a quick rest at the Pokémon Center.

Just look at Digimon. The Digimon actually got hurt, and some were killed, in battle. Even a few humans were hurt. (Sure, they were healed the next scene, but what the hey.) And Digimon had character development. Which is just something Pokémon needs. And I'll admit, I was wrong in my last post here. Ash looks more mature these days; he can handle more now.

And for the last thought: Silence. I'm sure that older people could handle some silence on the show, rather than ten-second long songs all the time. But kids today would be bored if there was no music.

Seiryu
7th March 2006, 1:42 AM
Well, if Pokémon was a bit more mature, then I somehow get the feeling that we wouldn't be getting (and have gotten) those horrendous puns for every single episode since the late Indigo League. I know it's 4Kids's fault here, but look at their other properties! As far as I know, Pokémon is the only one where they use puns in every freaking title.

Anyways, what I'd want from a more mature Pokémon...well, unlike most of you, I wouldn't go for sex and swearing. The former is almost always totally unnecessary and the latter is, as Stephen King said (pointed out by Rihana), "the language of the ignorant." Not saying there's anything particularly wrong with some cussing, but it should really only be put in to add a bit of stylish flavor. Too much, though, just makes everything lose its appeal.

Like most have said, more character development would be very nice. For me, it'd be an absolute godsend. I don't have any particularly huge problems with the characters right now (except Jessie, James, and Meowth) but having some change every once in a while would be great--and more than once every fifty episodes, please. It'd also be real good if they could add a character with a somewhat darker past than folks are used to in Pokémon, but that would probably take a bit too much from the kiddy image that the series has gotten itself and that the writers apparently live to uphold.

Another thing I would really like is...villains. Not even the uber-evil main villain just yet; just regular bad guys who're much like TR was back in Kanto. I mean, JJ&M may have been mostly incompetent back then, but you have to admit that they did constantly appear pretty dangerous--much more than nowadays, anyways. That is the kind of villain I want; someone constant who is a villain first and cheap third-rate comic relief second. Magma and Aqua were the perfect chance for this, though, and as usual, the writers wasted about ninety percent of the overall potential they could've used.

Satoshi
7th March 2006, 1:47 AM
Well, if Pokémon was a bit more mature, then I somehow get the feeling that we wouldn't be getting (and have gotten) those horrendous puns for every single episode since the late Indigo League. I know it's 4Kids's fault here, but look at their other properties! As far as I know, Pokémon is the only one where they use puns in every freaking title. If Pokemon was more mature, I have a feeling we'd still be getting those horrendous dub titles. >>;;

Jo-Jo
7th March 2006, 2:55 AM
I think I'd settle for better dialogue. Followed by all of the plot/characterisation stuff everyone's mentioned. As for the sex and swearing, I wouldn't object to a little of that, but it's not essential. :p I'd rather it were used for humour, though.

intergalactic platypus
7th March 2006, 2:56 AM
If pokemon were more mature, I fear what would happen to May. Shes such jailbait as is, with more "maturity" they would probably have her busting out of her shirt

Yamato-san
7th March 2006, 3:19 AM
I am surprised that no one has mentioned the DenGeki Pikachu manga. That was a great example of taking Pokemon and making it for a teen audience. Now while I am not for the extreme fanservice towards boys that had (we have doujinshi and fanart for that amount of boobs, thank you) they did touch on some issues in a more mature manner. The Sabrina arc was a nice dramantic/mature story line and dealing with the idea that Pokemon can be evil and can do harm. It even got into the idea about the school system and why no one has to attend.

The style was certainly more realistic.

Hey, we even had blood. XD Personally I would flip over the idea of someone taking that way of story telling Pokemon and turning it into an anime.

And I am also referring to the beginning of the comics, it got dubbed down in the last arcs of the story line.

The sexuality and stuff did get a bit toned down in the later chapters, but I wouldn't say the blood and stuff was lost. If you'll recall, Hiroshi's Lizardon was bleeding when it was rather brutally attacked by Satoshi's, and that occured close to the end of the 3rd volume, which was the second-to-last volume released. Also, close to the end of the manga, there's this scene which alludes to Orchid and Masaki being killed with blood everywhere, but it turns out that they were just knocked out and some kid spilled his tomato juice. XD


Another thing I would really like is...villains. Not even the uber-evil main villain just yet; just regular bad guys who're much like TR was back in Kanto. I mean, JJ&M may have been mostly incompetent back then, but you have to admit that they did constantly appear pretty dangerous--much more than nowadays, anyways. That is the kind of villain I want; someone constant who is a villain first and cheap third-rate comic relief second. Magma and Aqua were the perfect chance for this, though, and as usual, the writers wasted about ninety percent of the overall potential they could've used.

Yeah, I gotta say, Rocket Dan seemed very threatening in the episode where Satoshi gets Zenigame, when they're robbing a store with a bazooka. The problem is that 4kids got to the Japanese producers, so you're not likely to see dangerous weaponry very much anymore. Though, I am left to wonder how Ryou managed to get away with having a net-launcher highly resembling a rifle near the beginning of AG.

Anyway, if you ask me about a more mature Pocket Monsters... to be sensible, I would have to suggest something that still fits into the show's target audience, but taking itself just a bit more serious than it is. Having said that, I think the latest movie, "Mew and the Wave-Guiding Hero - Lucario" is a good start.

Willow's Tara
7th March 2006, 5:01 AM
With the Pokemon saying thier named, Gyarados and Onix don't seem to say thier name, Gyara seems to screech, no wait, you know how a Dinosaur might roar, more like them.
And Onix roars, I don't know what he roars but he just roars, and I never heard Dragonite say "Dragonite". But I could be wrong, what do Gyarados and Onix actually say.

Make more scary Pokemon would be more mature I guess, I mean they did a fine job with Gyarados (That was my first impression when I saw him/her), what with that angry face.
Mewtwo can look a little scary as well, especially when his eyes glow blue in the first movie. But ever since these two I don't seem to think that there many angry Pokemon that are scary....
So, they don't allow guns but yet they allow talk of sex? (You know in Pokemon 2000, Jessie was talking about sex to Ash because one of the others mentioned something about Misty and Ash I believe).

I say more emotional experiessions, more loss...I mean neatrly ever show out there aleast has a couple of losses, and when they do lose someone make one of them go down in a spiraL.
the episodes saying goodbye to Misty, Butterfree and Togetic were good examples, althought Ash seems to be over it the next episode, maybe with the expection of Butterfree, but we don't know how Misty felt in the next episode the count she left as well.

Yamato-san
7th March 2006, 5:11 AM
the thing is, in Japan, sound effects for animals growling are stuff like "gurururu" and such. I think for these Pokemon that supposedly sound like they're roaring, they're actually mixing the name into said sound effects. Listening closely to Gyarados and Iwark, I swear I could hear "Gyaaaa!" and "Waaaaa!" respectively. Though, it is worth noting that this only seems to apply to the anime. They of course don't say their names in the games, and after reading the first volume of Special in Japanese, I noticed that Saidon just roars like a normal animal, as opposed to "dooooo" like I think I hear on anime (only Pikachu seems to say its name in the manga, and again, it's for the cute factor).

And no, in the second movie dub, Team Rocket were talking to Ash about the "opposite sex", "sex" being used as a term to distinguish gender. However, it is worth noting that 4kids uses quite a bit of subtle innuendo, making James seem gay and, well, this episode (http://www.bulbagarden.net/~dogasu/comparisons/houen/ep034.html).

Satoshi
7th March 2006, 6:27 AM
Jesse: "Catch this one, you cupcake. Now that I've seen how tough that Serviper is, I want to grab it even more~!"

- AG008 (http://www.bulbagarden.net/~dogasu/comparisons/houen/ep008.html)

>>;; Believe me, the dub has alot of those "mature goodies" that you'd already want !

FireKero!
7th March 2006, 6:34 AM
^For truth, huh?

More people would watch PKMN for sure, and it'd do Nintendo (and formerly WOTC) some real justice.

Willow's Tara
7th March 2006, 8:31 AM
Yamata-san-Oh I see, I haven't seen the movie in a while so my mind a bit fuzzy, unfortently my Pokemon 2000 doesn't work anymore (It's on video) I tried watching it ages ago aand it was screwed up and all, it was my favourite movie as well.
I didn't realize Jessie had said Opposite sex, but she does refer to relationships/Love, it's nice to know 4WB didn't decided to get rid of anything to0 do with Love, I dunno why they would but still,

And it is possible for one of them to aleast find someonem like love interest, well aleast Brock or Misty since they aren't Ash;'s age, (wait, I might be wrong about Misty)

Gravy
7th March 2006, 1:17 PM
With the Pokemon saying thier named, Gyarados and Onix don't seem to say thier name, Gyara seems to screech, no wait, you know how a Dinosaur might roar, more like them.
And Onix roars, I don't know what he roars but he just roars, and I never heard Dragonite say "Dragonite". But I could be wrong, what do Gyarados and Onix actually say.
Onix quite clearly says 'Iwaaa' which is the first sylable of it's japanese name. And Dragonite, from what I remember, tends to say 'ryu', which would be the last sylable of its japanese name. So again, this is just a case of pokémon saying their names being handled a lot better than those in the dub.
Not sure I agree with Yamato concerning Gyarados however. They've used that very same roar for Tyranitar, Kyogre and some other pokémon in the past, so I'm doubting it's actually saying any part of it's name.

Alfonso
7th March 2006, 1:28 PM
So, they don't allow guns but yet they allow talk of sex? (You know in Pokemon 2000, Jessie was talking about sex to Ash because one of the others mentioned something about Misty and Ash I believe).


The mentioning of sex was refering to gender, not sexual intercourse.

pigs do fly
7th March 2006, 6:56 PM
IMO To make the show more mature basically means less AIM FOR THE HORN! and no more pikachu and weak pre-evos thrashing everything

Gravy
7th March 2006, 7:10 PM
Man, I wish people would get over that 'Aim for the horn' thing already. I mean jesus, it was 9 or so years ago.

Jesse GS the II
7th March 2006, 8:10 PM
IMO To make the show more mature basically means less AIM FOR THE HORN! and no more pikachu and weak pre-evos thrashing everything

Hasn't it been established countless times before that the anime is not supposed to be exactly like the games?

skarmachild
7th March 2006, 8:29 PM
The mentioning of sex was refering to gender, not sexual intercourse.

Just like in one of the Advanced episodes when Brock (omg secks alort!) sais "It looks like the battle of the sexes is over".


Man, I wish people would get over that 'Aim for the horn' thing already. I mean jesus, it was 9 or so years ago.

What does "Aim for the horn" mean?

Alfonso
7th March 2006, 8:34 PM
What does "Aim for the horn" mean?

That's what Ash said to Pikachu in his order to attack Rhydon in his battle against Blaine.

Gravy
7th March 2006, 8:38 PM
Hasn't it been established countless times before that the anime is not supposed to be exactly like the games?
Meh, you know what people can be like. What're gonna do, eh?


What does "Aim for the horn" mean?
During the first Gym Battle against Blaine, Ash had Pikachu use an electric shock on Rhydon's metallic horn because the rest of its body was immune to electricity.
And when people try to bring up the animé's faults, that one particular order is usually used as evidence against the show.

But of course, Alfonso and his almighty mod-like powers have thwarted my attempts at explaining that first. Curses! Foiled again! =o

skarmachild
7th March 2006, 8:53 PM
That's what Ash said to Pikachu in his order to attack Rhydon in his battle against Blaine.

My God, I just remembered that and those 2 episodes.

Go! Ninetails

You know it makes sense.

Ralts Master
8th March 2006, 1:03 AM
Hasn't it been established countless times before that the anime is not supposed to be exactly like the games?
Yes. That doesn't mean that they should half-*** essential game mechanics (I can understand type interactions and the power of moves being less of a factor, to make a more interesting show, but if they're going to use the type interactions at all, get them right). Not that the current writers seem to have ever played the games (or watched the original Kanto arc, for that matter!)...

Kutie Pie
8th March 2006, 1:45 AM
Well, if they made Pokemon more mature, then my mom would totally not allow me to watch it anymore. She's very picky about what we're watching. Like she wants us to stop watching the Simpsons, seeing as they're adding even crueler humor. Like after several episodes of Futurerama, mom told us to stop watching it. This was before it was moved to Adult Swim on Cartoon Network. And we're not allowed to watch Family Guy and American Dad. And we're not allowed to watch Sonic X anymore for some reason...

So if they did make Pokemon mature, and my mom saw an episode, she'd ban it in the house. And they would have to put the show late at night. So let's hope that wouldn't happen. (Of course it isn't, but still...)

~~~~~~~~~
* Kutie Pie * Please be kind to midgets!

Yamato-san
8th March 2006, 2:52 AM
Not sure I agree with Yamato concerning Gyarados however. They've used that very same roar for Tyranitar, Kyogre and some other pokémon in the past, so I'm doubting it's actually saying any part of it's name.

been a while since I saw both an episode with Bangiras and the Groudon/Kyogre two-parter. However, I think part of their names could be worked into the onomotopoeia for a roar as well. Bangiras could say "Giraaaaa!" and Kyogre could say "Gaaaaa!" Maybe someone with good listening skills and a knowledge of Japanese sound effects could confirm such things.... or we could get someone who has one of those comics which use screenshots from the anime (I saw scans of these on the site to a Japanese bookstore, BTW, and it's worth noting that Yorunozuku's anime call is "Zuru!" if you listen closely). I really do get the feeling the anime producers worked the name-saying into every species of Pokemon in the Japanese version, but maybe there is an exception here or there. The whole thing just gets a bit complicated when you take Japanese sound effects into account.

Jesse GS the II
8th March 2006, 7:51 AM
Well, if they made Pokemon more mature, then my mom would totally not allow me to watch it anymore. She's very picky about what we're watching. Like she wants us to stop watching the Simpsons, seeing as they're adding even crueler humor. Like after several episodes of Futurerama, mom told us to stop watching it. This was before it was moved to Adult Swim on Cartoon Network. And we're not allowed to watch Family Guy and American Dad. And we're not allowed to watch Sonic X anymore for some reason...

So if they did make Pokemon mature, and my mom saw an episode, she'd ban it in the house. And they would have to put the show late at night. So let's hope that wouldn't happen. (Of course it isn't, but still...)

~~~~~~~~~
* Kutie Pie * Please be kind to midgets!

Man, I'd hate to live in your house. Nobody deserves to be deprived of the unfettered genius that was "Futurama".

Here's hoping your mom straightens out sometime soon. Censorship is an ugly thing, but it's even worse when it's weilded by zealous parental figures.

Flame Haze SnS
8th March 2006, 8:31 AM
If the pokemon has gotten bit more mature, that's fine with me. But that could turn children's head away (meaning no humor ways anymore).

Freedom
8th March 2006, 2:36 PM
Well like some people have mentioned they don't need blood and swearing to make it more mature. they just need to rewatch what made Pokemon so great in the first place ie the first season and then try to make it more like that. so they should include more romance and more character development. just because the show is called 'Pokemon' doesn't mean they should ignore the main characters because 'Digimon' is able to do a good job dealing with the monsters and the human relationships.

Omega Pirate
8th March 2006, 2:41 PM
Well, if they made Pokemon more mature, then my mom would totally not allow me to watch it anymore. She's very picky about what we're watching. Like she wants us to stop watching the Simpsons, seeing as they're adding even crueler humor. Like after several episodes of Futurerama, mom told us to stop watching it. This was before it was moved to Adult Swim on Cartoon Network. And we're not allowed to watch Family Guy and American Dad. And we're not allowed to watch Sonic X anymore for some reason...

So if they did make Pokemon mature, and my mom saw an episode, she'd ban it in the house. And they would have to put the show late at night. So let's hope that wouldn't happen. (Of course it isn't, but still...)

~~~~~~~~~
* Kutie Pie * Please be kind to midgets!


Let me just tell you that with Family Guy and American Dad, your not missing anything. BUT FUTURAMA! Thats an outrage, I say rebel.

I don't get Sonic X, whats wrong with it, I find it more immature than pokemon!

Kutie Pie
8th March 2006, 9:49 PM
Originally posted by Jesse GS the II
Man, I'd hate to live in your house. Nobody deserves to be deprived of the unfettered genius that was "Futurama".

I don't miss it, really. Besides, it's gotten worse...

And if you check out my sig, you'll see I'm a Mormon, so that's why.


Originally posted by DriveshafT
Let me tell you that with Family Guy and American Dad, your not missing anything. BUT FUTURAMA! Thats an outrage, I say rebel.

Again, I'm a Mormon. And no rebel, please. That makes the world worse. It's my mom's rules. We have to follow it. My dad used to watch Futurama with us until my mom banned it in the house. (This was years ago.) We don't miss it anymore, but we've been around the Simpsons for a while. She's still trying to keep us away from it. BUT WE HAVE THREE SEASONS! So it'll be impossible.

And of course I'm not missing anything on *gags* Family Guy and American Dad since we never watched it. But of course, I only remember the one little part on Futurama where that one kid got frozen in time and that robot dude tried to take over the world (I think). That's it. I think it was the one Christmas episode that made my mother ban it. The banner said "X-Mas" and it probably offended her. Or it was because the old guy was nude.

But still, I don't miss it. I'm happy with what I watch. So give up on the part of my mother straightening out, Jesse GS. She's very protective. And a good mother, seeing as my aunts and uncle have caused my grandmother grief over the years. (Guess you could say we're her favorites. And by favorites I mean me, my parents and five brothers.) Well, thank you for your opinions, guys. AND I HOPE THEY TAKE SOUTH PARK OFF OF REGULAR TV AND CABLE FOR GOOD! THEY'RE SCARRING TEENAGERS FOR LIFE!

~~~~~~~~~
* Kutie Pie * Please be kind to midgets!

max120 eX
8th March 2006, 10:42 PM
That'll help confirm the answer to an age-old question- what are May's erected nipples really like?

i wonder?....

Jesse GS the II
8th March 2006, 10:44 PM
Looks like I've got another board member that I can't talk to anymore.

Call me radical, but I believe in the power of entertainment, and I despise anything that tries to take it away from anyone. "Futurama" may have some adult themes, but it's not going to warp anybody. After all, it's just a show, they should really just relax.

Kutie Pie
8th March 2006, 11:36 PM
I don't know, Jesse GS. My mom told me there have been some shows that people thought were real, so they tried it. So it could happen.

But my parents aren't taking away entertainment from us. They're just telling us not to watch those kinds of shows. Of course, I'm not mad at you. If you like Futurama, that's fine with me. It's your parents' choice. If they don't care what you watch, I'm not complaining. Now if they're allowing you (or other parents with kids) to watch South Park, then I'm complaining. But not Futurama. It's only rated mature shows I'm complaining about.

So for the Pokémon, if they were to make it for teenagers (and I'm one as well) then my mom would refuse to let me watch it unless she watches it with me. And my dad was watching Futurama with us. So we could watch shows as long as they're watching it with us. Unless it's TV PG and below. I'm not allowed to watch TV 14 shows (I think), even if it's an episode of the Simpsons.

Remember, we have the power of agency. If you want to watch Futurama, go ahead. I'm not stopping you, just your parents if they decide it. Thank you for your patience Jesse GS and many others and have a nice day!

~~~~~~~~~
* Kutie Pie * Please be kind to midgets!

Jesse GS the II
9th March 2006, 1:42 AM
Well, I'm 19, and my parents no longer care what I watch, so it doesn't matter to me. I'll admit that shows like "South Park" shouldn't be seen by a younger crowd, but even "The Simpsons" can be enjoyed by the preteen demographic - just not on the same level.

Anyhoo, I'm going off topic here. Let's steer 'er back towards the original discussion, shall we? I don't think that "Pokémon" needs to be intensified to the "South Park" level, but it could use a little less sugarcoating.

Cybernetic Angel
9th March 2006, 8:10 AM
Yeah, thinking back to the days when Pokémon first aired, before all this modern world stuff happened (you know what I'm talking about), and thus I had no reason to be steered away by 4kids. Well, I was a kid back then anyway, but that's not the point.

For me, if the original ideas used in the Kanto Saga were applied for the rest of the series afterwards (such as times where TR didn't case trouble, or ended up no being part of the plot), I would have been compelled to stay on track and watch it through. Of course, world views change and the people in charge made decisions we may not have like. And there's not much we can do to change that, unless we got positions in those places. *hinthintwinkwink*

As for what I'd like to see, never watched Digimon (thought I'm compelled to now), the ideas they had seem like they can/could be applied to Pokémon as well. In fact, to all animes on that level (between the cute humourous shows and the mature ones like FMA) it can be done. If a change like this were to occur soon (a remake, maybe?) then I would not be disappointed.

Maes Hughes
9th March 2006, 8:39 AM
And by that, I mean the anime. We all know that Pokémon is more for children and etc. but what if they make an alternative anime of Pokémon with the same people (Ash and co) and the same storyline (badges/ribbons) but everything was a bit matured. For example, they could add a bit violance, maybe cursing (but not too harsh words) and so on.

Well, not exactly make a new version and start all over, but let's imagine the anime was directed to older people, maybe 13+, how do you think everything would've changed?

it wouldn't be on kid's WB, more likly on Adult Swim or on saturday nights with toonami, little kids would stay up to watch it, some parents would get angry at pokemon for making the show "bad" XD

Crystal Mew
9th March 2006, 10:02 AM
what if pokemon was more mature? I may actually watch it.
haha.

but really, if you listen real closely, sometimes you hear things they say that could be thought of as "mature"
mostly james and jesse are the ones saying these things, and honestly I dont remember all of them..

but it wouldnt hurt if they made it more "mature"
cartoons on nickelodeon are even more "mature" in some areas than pokemon..I mean come on. its not going to corrupt a kid...most likely anyways ^^

Sayo
9th March 2006, 7:08 PM
what if pokemon was more mature? I may actually watch it.
haha.

but really, if you listen real closely, sometimes you hear things they say that could be thought of as "mature"
mostly james and jesse are the ones saying these things, and honestly I dont remember all of them..


Yeah, I've heard about those. I don't think it's really meant to be "mature" jokes, it's more us horny teenagers that misunderstand these things. For example, if I say "I have a huge package" to a child, a horny teenager and an adult and all of them will react differently.

Anyway, it's true that violence and swearing doesn't necessarily adds maturity to the show, but I was thinking, since it's Pokémon and it has a lot of battling, Team Rocket stealing, and other things, some violence needs to be add, even though Satoshi himself is against it. And for swearing, something bad always happens in the episodes and whenever someone is mad, they swear... but not everyone. But many people do say "damn" or "hell" at least, and that's enough. Or else, they could just turn the whole show into hentai... which wouldn't be bad either...

Evanji Axu
9th March 2006, 9:29 PM
Looks like I've got another board member that I can't talk to anymore.

Call me radical, but I believe in the power of entertainment, and I despise anything that tries to take it away from anyone. "Futurama" may have some adult themes, but it's not going to warp anybody. After all, it's just a show, they should really just relax.


...That's your catchphrase, isn't it? :D

ReallyOcean
9th March 2006, 11:26 PM
That'll help confirm the answer to an age-old question- what are May's erected nipples really like?
This is sick. I can't believe some people think like this.

She is ten years old. If you're actually serious, what the ****, man.

Jesse GS the II
9th March 2006, 11:38 PM
...That's your catchphrase, isn't it? :D

Well, it's from the opening theme song to "Mystery Science Theater 3000", but around here, it's sort of become my mantra.

Seijiro Mafuné
10th March 2006, 12:12 PM
...I would say something, buuuuuut nah. Other than season 10 isn't good at all.

Anyway, to shorten it up, Pokémon could be more mature... if that meant good development in more episodes and... er... I guess that's it.

Jesse GS the II
10th March 2006, 7:34 PM
...I would say something, buuuuuut nah. Other than season 10 isn't good at all.

Oh, come on, how can you knock a season that has "Soultaker", "The Girl in Gold Boots", "Merlin's Shop of Mystical Wonders", "Future War", "The Blood Waters of Dr. Z", "Boggy Creek II", "Track of the Moon Beast", "Final Justice", "It Lives By Night", "The Horrors of Spider Island", the short "A Case of Spring Fever", "Squirm", and "Diabolik"?

...Oh, right, "Hamlet". Never mind.


This is sick. I can't believe some people think like this.

She is ten years old. If you're actually serious, what the ****, man.

A lot of people (myself NOT included) seem to overlook Haruka's actual purpose on the show. She was brought in to introduce Pokémon Contests and to be a more complex female lead than Kasumi was, not as a piece of eye candy for the fans to undress with their minds. She's not some buxom pin-up model, she's a cartoon character, and even if you want to overlook that, she's about 11 years old. The show could stand to be more mature, but not to a degree that satisfies pedophiles.

Astinus
10th March 2006, 7:44 PM
"Squirm" was an awesome MST movie. Such a shame MST had to end.

Ignoring Haruka's true purpose? That's a shock! *dripping sarcasm* Jesse's right. Haruka is NOT like Misty. Misty wore clothes purposely made for undressing with the eyes. At least haruka actually wears a shirt that covers her stomach.

Like I said before: maturity does not equal sex. If all one can see is the big S-E-X, then you have quite a ways to go in the maturity department. It takes a mature mind to see beyond it.

Orion-Sama
10th March 2006, 7:52 PM
The May controversy. Always fun. Two words: Tight Clothes. :)

As for maturity... yep. They should move off the average plot for once, and have some tension as well. Blood and such isn't needed. Just the feeling that not everything is pink-colored for once. Why not bring Gio and such around? Have them fight off some worthy agents, or something.

And more Fan Service, but that's another story. :D

ReallyOcean
11th March 2006, 1:06 AM
A lot of people (myself NOT included) seem to overlook Haruka's actual purpose on the show. She was brought in to introduce Pokémon Contests and to be a more complex female lead than Kasumi was, not as a piece of eye candy for the fans to undress with their minds. She's not some buxom pin-up model, she's a cartoon character, and even if you want to overlook that, she's about 11 years old. The show could stand to be more mature, but not to a degree that satisfies pedophiles.
Still, you don't say that about a cartoon character who is 11 years old. That's just really sick. I'm really not here to make fun of anybody or tell them that something they do is sick, but come on guys. It's just gross if you guys think about that.

Also, not to get off subject, but I've seen tons of Avatars and Signatures that have pictures of Sceptile and other characters/pokemon from the episodes that haven't been shown in English yet. Isn't this a form of a spoiler? I even didn't know about Ash's grovylle evolving until I posted on this forum because of the avatars.

I don't mean to be a wimp or a party pooper, but it's not fun to be surprised by a spoiler when a warning hasn't been given. If this is allowed by the rules, then ignore this post. I was just asking.

Also on the idea of spoilers, (I didn't want to make a new thread about it) On the serebii site, they have a Character bio section in the Anime section. I thought it was cool to see info on the characters, and then I find out Ash suddenly has a Donphan. Again, it's kind of crappy being surprised by this stuff when you aren't really warned in an obvious way. Maybe there could be a character bio section for the English version that is up to date with the episodes that have aired out of Japan, (which would have grovyle there instead of sceptile, for example) and then the regular one that is completely up to date. (With the japanese episodes.)

Again, again, again,...............If I missed how this was allowed in the rules somewhere, ignore this post, or at least tell me that you've read it. (So I know you have.)

It's just not fun for people who get surprised with spoilers when they don't want to know yet.

Sayo
11th March 2006, 1:13 AM
It's gross when you think too much about it.

Jo-Jo
11th March 2006, 1:14 AM
Gosh, I never knew that one of the reasons May was introduced was to show up Misty as a shallow two-dimensional shell of a woman. :rolleyes: It amazes me how many people think that the writers of the show have so much disdain for their own character.

On that note, I think one of the ways in which Pokemon could stand to be more mature is in abolishing this silly unspoken rule about only having one girl in the group at a time. I know the show is shounen, but really. The boys of Japan will not die of cooties if Misty and May (or a new girl) both travel with Ash. Misty acts more macho than most of the boys on the cast, anyway.

Gravy
11th March 2006, 1:20 AM
I dunno. I think their main priority should be working out how to give each cast their fair share of focus, rather than trying to equal out the genders. Its all well and good having 2 female characters in the group, and I'm quite fond of the idea as a matter of fact, but at the end of the day one of them is just going to stagnate :/

Seijiro Mafuné
11th March 2006, 1:28 AM
...if you REALLY need to hear my gripe, then ask me to, and I'll PM you. No need to bug everyone about it, especially given how you misinterpretted it. (Although... MST? I'll switch a D in.) By the way, I like Hamlet.

And anyway, RO, males are males, and this place is filled with ones with unchecked hormones (and more likely than not, they might lack girlfriends too, but I say nothing more), and there's also the fact that, whether you want it or not, people have the desire for anything up to remotely humanoid beings. (And then some.)

But what do I know?

ArrEmmDee
11th March 2006, 2:16 AM
Less episodic and darker and more serious plots? Yes.

MIND YOU.

The movies are probably really similar to what the plot would be like if you loosely told them this, and while they're nice, really, only the first movie comes to a level of 'evil' worth mentioning. Everything else is still a fairly nice world behind some rose-tinted glasses.

Whoever mentioned Team Rocket becoming formidable and more agents showing up more often had the right idea. Some rogue groups similar to Aqua/Magma but with a real goal and also being formidable would also be good.

CyberCubed
11th March 2006, 6:15 AM
I really like the idea of the plot seen in the various movies to be in used at various points of the show. The movies actually *do* have complex parts when you think about it, but since they're about an hour and a half, they have to rush everything in and resolve it in a short time.

To see that stuff actually expanded throughout the course of the season would be perfect. Movie villains is exactly what the show needs in the actual anime. It raises the bar with actual life-threatening situations, yet at the same time fits well in the Pokemon universe and doesn't jump the shark.

Astinus
11th March 2006, 10:36 AM
Gosh, I never knew that one of the reasons May was introduced was to show up Misty as a shallow two-dimensional shell of a woman. :rolleyes: It amazes me how many people think that the writers of the show have so much disdain for their own character.

They do have disdain for Misty. She had no purpose during Johto, no personality left because of Togepi. The writers HAD to get rid of her. She was just a dead-weight to the show. (Same with Brock. Why he's back is a mystery to me.)

Jo-Jo
12th March 2006, 5:48 PM
Dude. They came up with her in the first place. They're the ones who wrote her the way she was in Johto. Why would they create a character that none of them liked? A character who would be one of the three main protagonists of the show, no less? What, are they masochists or something? You can't seriously believe that they sabotaged their own character on purpose just so they would have an excuse to kick her out of the series and make her replacement look better in comparison.

I still think more than one girl on the team would be great. We don't see enough female friendships in Pokemon. Unless Jessie/James counts, I suppose.

jindahouse
12th March 2006, 5:55 PM
yea coz you watch when a pokemon or human gets cut it the anime it turns red never any blood which even a 5 year old knows would happen

and no tracey was a bore but the whole love thing with brock needs to end and max needs his starter pokemon in orre

Jesse GS the II
12th March 2006, 9:26 PM
Dude. They came up with her in the first place. They're the ones who wrote her the way she was in Johto. Why would they create a character that none of them liked? A character who would be one of the three main protagonists of the show, no less? What, are they masochists or something? You can't seriously believe that they sabotaged their own character on purpose just so they would have an excuse to kick her out of the series and make her replacement look better in comparison.

They didn't sabotage Kasumi intentionally, they just lost control of her. The Jouto era was when the writers started to forget about story and character and focused more heavily on plugging the video games. It wasn't just Kasumi - Takeshi, and even Satoshi to an extent, lost their personalities as they became backgrounds for the Pokémon Of The Day to do their thing against. When Houen came along, they decided to get the show back to square one, and in order to do that, they introduced Haruka as a new character who knew nothing about the world of training and needed someone to guide her along. They added Masato as another kind of student character, and they also made an inventory of their current cast members - Satoshi was going to be Haruka's mentor, and obviously Takeshi would be the cook, and Musashi and Kojirou remained in the role of comedy relief. But Kasumi couldn't be fit into the new realization of the show, so she was written out. Nobody knew she'd be leaving, not even in the writing room, but the way they'd rethought the show, it had to happen.

ReallyOcean
13th March 2006, 3:32 AM
They do have disdain for Misty. She had no purpose during Johto, no personality left because of Togepi. The writers HAD to get rid of her. She was just a dead-weight to the show. (Same with Brock. Why he's back is a mystery to me.)
I wouldn't still watch pokemon if not for the return of brock/misty. I loved them. I wish it was misty who was back though, not brock.

CyberCubed
13th March 2006, 7:51 AM
They didn't sabotage Kasumi intentionally, they just lost control of her. The Jouto era was when the writers started to forget about story and character and focused more heavily on plugging the video games. It wasn't just Kasumi - Takeshi, and even Satoshi to an extent, lost their personalities as they became backgrounds for the Pokémon Of The Day to do their thing against. When Houen came along, they decided to get the show back to square one, and in order to do that, they introduced Haruka as a new character who knew nothing about the world of training and needed someone to guide her along. They added Masato as another kind of student character, and they also made an inventory of their current cast members - Satoshi was going to be Haruka's mentor, and obviously Takeshi would be the cook, and Musashi and Kojirou remained in the role of comedy relief. But Kasumi couldn't be fit into the new realization of the show, so she was written out. Nobody knew she'd be leaving, not even in the writing room, but the way they'd rethought the show, it had to happen.

That was a very good post, I agree on all accounts. The writers would have a hard time fitting Misty into the current cast, her role would just seem too awkward.

Alfonso
13th March 2006, 7:37 PM
Should I just make a thread about my question/request?

No.

Don't post in random threads asking things that are totally random and not even relevant to the topic/sub-topic at hand. :/ If you need help about something, PM me. *deletes post* :<

To be honest, and this may be a little immature of me, but whatever, I miss the random swimsuit stuff from the first series. :/ I wouldn't call it 'mature', but it was appreciated by me back in the day when I was a Misty fanboy (Of the ripe old age of... what? 10-11?) who thought it was awesome how she just randomly slipped into a bikini, sometimes at random moments. (Such as in Viridian Forest.)

We need those moments back, for May and Jessie. :<

jindahouse
13th March 2006, 10:35 PM
i agree though marturity isn't about sex its about being able to handle more insense situations i mean do you know why they couldn't show the porygon episode because i went into the computer and it exploded and apparentlykids in japan started having fits when they saw it i read somewhere it was on serebii under banned episodes

Jesse GS the II
14th March 2006, 12:51 AM
i agree though marturity isn't about sex its about being able to handle more insense situations i mean do you know why they couldn't show the porygon episode because i went into the computer and it exploded and apparentlykids in japan started having fits when they saw it i read somewhere it was on serebii under banned episodes

1. The Porygon incident has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
2. I love how you say this stuff as if we didn't already know it.

Quantumpencil
22nd March 2006, 12:23 PM
Adding violence to show wouldn't benefit this show in anyway... I certainly don't believe that the entertainment industry needs any more useless and unecessary violence, especially not in a program such as this, we've already got enough crappy B movies like Saw II and FD3 polluting our society as it is.

Anyway, I simply think they should try focusing the show a bit more, by actually writing long involved story arcs rather than episode-centered plots, adding more substantial character developement, and dramatic elements to the generally silly world that is the Pokemon anime. They need not do away with the filler, but it would greatly benefit the show if they would lessen the amount of filler, and ease up on the gimmicks/silliness in favor of more complex and enthralling plots.

They've done this a few times, the most obvious example being Mewtwo's story arc, and the results were quite impressive. Between the CD Drama, and both of Mewtwo's movies we ended up with a relatively complex and dynamic character by most standards, and far away the most thought out character in the entire anime continuity. Mewtwo to Ai and MSB had some adult overtones too, at least in the Japanese versions (Haven't seen the dub), and were very dramatically structured when compared to the rest of the series.

I think if the series were to occassionally engage in such arcs the overall quality of the show would spike dramatically.

Metal Force
22nd March 2006, 1:01 PM
well it's for children but if they gonna do for teens(such as my self) I think they should put more violents like you said

setokaibarocket
22nd March 2006, 1:06 PM
Team Rocket should actually pose a threat :D Perhaps give them guns or something.

EDIT: Actually, giving guns to Jessie and James WOULD make them a threat. To themselves. :D