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Sheena
31st March 2006, 1:14 AM
Hi. This is my first post, so I'm obviously new to the community. But I've been wandering the forums and reading posts for quite a bit of time, so I wouldn't say I'm all newb. I would also like to say that I'm not a shipper. Completely neutral when it comes to Pokemon because romance is the last thing on my mind when it comes to this show.

Something I've noticed here at Sppf. There seems to be a major bias against PokeShipping (and Misty in general). I've also noticed that when AdvanceShippers (or May fans) do something, it's hardly noticed.

Example from the PokeShipping side. The Anime Faq, something that is supposed to be unbiased and answer questions for people who don't know any better. However, there seems to be some major Anti-PokeShipping bias, even with the mods and administrators:
"OMG I heard Ash and Misty kiss in the last episode!! Is that true?!"
No. The show is STILL going in Japan and no one knows when it's going to end. Misty is all the way in the Kanto region and Ash is all the way in the Hoenn region. Ash has NO loving feelings for Misty. He thinks of her as a best friend. Same goes with her. Had there been any, they'd have said something before they split apart in Kanto. So keep the shipping in fanfics because Ash has no interests in love for anything other than Pokémon.Of course, you're allowed to believe that PokeShipping no longer exists in canon. I can easily see why, with the lack of recent happenings for the ships.

But Anime FAQS are supposed to be unbiased/neutral, and the person who wrote this seems to be implying that his/her opinion is absolute. I don't see why they have the power to say that PokeShipping being dead is completely fact, when it's simply one's opinion and there is evidence that states that it may not be so.

Something that says something like the following:

"Misty left at the end of Johto, but has made a few returns like the Hosous and a few episodes where she interacts with the gang. Whether or not she will come back permanently is unknown.

For the shipping issue, some believe her feelings are with Ash, while others believe she has moved on to Tracey. Still others believe that said feelings never existed to begin with. Again, the shipping issues with Misty are currently unknown, but are constantly being addressed in the shipping forums."

... Seems much more unbiased, polite, and a better answer than saying PokeShippers are stupid.

Something else:
"But there are avatars on the board of him kissing Misty and about to kiss May!"
Those were edited screenshots to make PokéShippers happy.There are avatars of Misty and May, and it's addressed.

The problem here is the part "to make PokeShippers happy". If Pokeshippers are as rabid as the sterotype says, then why would they be happy with an avatar of May kissing Ash?

And in the thread for the special. It's stated Misty is going to return for a little while. Misty fans share their pleasure, but they are immediatly attacked with things like PokeShipping is dead, Misty will never return, etc.

I've noticed many PokeShippers complain about the sterotype presented on them, and they have the right to do so. But, I've also noticed that no one has taken any steps to stop this. If you want something done, you should try to do something besides randomly mentioning it in a few posts, especially ones that are in the shipping forum were these things aren't really addressed.

I've also noticed PokeShippers complaining about AdvanceShippers saying their ship is canon. I recall someone asking in the AdvanceShipping thread whether or not the AdvanceShippers thought their ship was canon, and many said no but it might be someday.

Even if your ship has evidence and the other doesn't, it's not fair to attack other Shippers. Some get mad at being sterotyped, but are sterotyping others.

In the AdvanceShipping thread, I see many posts that complain that they are being attacked by PokeShippers and Contestshippers. The problem is that many are calling other shippers noobs, while being noobs themselves.

I've noticed certain AdvanceShippers and Non-PokeShippers going into the PokeShipping thread. I've seen people who have done this in a peaceful manner, but others only seem to constantly put PokeShippers down. Saying their topics are stupid, or saying that they're wishing for something that won't happen. It's to the point of elitism.

There are also AdvanceShippers who bash PokeShippers in their thread. AdvanceShippers say PokeShippers are rabid and will immediatly kill anyone who says something bad about their ship. But it's not AdvanceShippers who are being attacked in their threads, it's the PokeShippers. AdvanceShippers go into the PokeShipping thread and invade their privacy.

Of course, not all AdvanceShippers are like this. But there are some that are.

These are the things that I've noticed. I hope they are taken into account.

Roses Ablaze
31st March 2006, 1:40 AM
Every fandom community has some kind of bias it seems. Here it's pro-May, pro-AdvanceShipping and anti-Misty and PokeShipping. BulbaGarden, most of the members are PokeShippers. On Pokemon UK, you'd better not be a fan of the 'twerps' if you don't want to be persecuted (at least that's how it was when I was there).

CyberCubed
31st March 2006, 1:46 AM
First of all, welcome!

As for the anime FAQS, I believe most of those questions were posted by Edward Elric, a SuperMod from the anime section. He's not a shipper at all, he's just against romance for main characters, which is why he's probably hard against Pokeshipping in the faq. That hardly reflects the fandom though.

Yeah, the last part of your post happens every so often. But just so you know, posting in a thread of a ship you don't support isn't "invading their privacy."

These shipping threads are made for anyone to post in, whether you support the ship or not. As long as you're not bashing the ship, anyone can post in them. Silly topics about what kind of socks "character A" will buy "character B" for their birthday are usually the topics put down by some people. Some have more of a tolerance for odd topics more than others.

Anyway with only one active mod on this forum (Kiori), there isn't much to say. The other mods have all abandoned this section and hardly post anymore, so it's something that Kiori has to take up all by herself.

Atoyont
31st March 2006, 2:14 AM
Although it seems like Pokeshippers are prejudiced against in these forums, Swiftly's Shipper's Census (http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=104968) says that there are more Pokeshippers, which seems to be the case, as the Advanceshipping thread is considerably shorter than the Pokeshipping thread, even though it was established a good four months earlier. I believe that Pokeshippers are generally shy around others, hence the appearance that Advanceshipping is more popular. Advanceshippers, on the other hand, are in no way quiet when expressing their views, although many are rather idiotic (but not CyberCubed :p).

Satoshi
31st March 2006, 3:08 AM
Of course there would at least be a little presence of bias in the shipping community/fandom - you just have to deal with it. I remember a while back when PokeShippers were stereotyped to the extreme, with elitist anti-PokeShippers running around like crap, it's a bit toned down these days. The majority factor of PokeShippers on SPPf are actually above AdvanceShippers here though, the reason for the high "bias" on PokeShipping and Kasumi (Misty) herself is because a majority of PokeShippers choose not to stand up themselves and say "hey, we're not all like the random elitist and n00by PokeShipping bast*rds you see us as".

Welcome to the Serebii.net Forums, BTW.

There are avatars of Misty and May, and it's addressed.

The problem here is the part "to make PokeShippers happy". If Pokeshippers are as rabid as the sterotype says, then why would they be happy with an avatar of May kissing Ash?
Ed was probably just using the term "PokeShipping" to universally refer the AdvanceShipping and PokeShipping avatars.

STJ
31st March 2006, 3:14 AM
I'm sure there were plenty of Pokeshipping Elitsts too...


The majority factor of PokeShippers on SPPf are actually above AdvanceShippers here though
What exactly do you mean by this?

cold_katanagirl
31st March 2006, 3:20 AM
What exactly do you mean by this?I'm pretty sure they meant the number, not above in that sense.

Anyway though, meh. Satoshi summed up my thoughts.

~Ghostwriter~
31st March 2006, 3:44 AM
Hello, Sheena. I also welcome you :)

Um, to answer something:


Originally posted by Anime FAQs:

Ash has NO loving feelings for Misty. He thinks of her as a best friend. Same goes with her.

Originally posted by Sheena:

the person who wrote this seems to be implying that his/her opinion is absolute. I don't see why they have the power to say that PokeShipping being dead is completely fact, when it's simply one's opinion and there is evidence that states that it may not be so.
I believe most of the reason they said it like that was because (according to those who have seen the show in its original Japanese) a lot of the PokeShipping hints are dub-added and not present in the original, thus those are not considered canon. That's why the person who wrote the FAQs can say what they did so concretely. :)

Anyways, I hope you have fun here!

~Ghostwriter~

STJ
31st March 2006, 3:48 AM
I believe most of the reason they said it like that was because (according to those who have seen the show in its original Japanese) a lot of the PokeShipping hints are dub-added and not present in the original, thus those are not considered canon. That's why the person who wrote the FAQs can say what they did so concretely.

LOL, You just opened up a big can of worms by saying that XD

But in any case, in my opinion, NO opinion is absolute, which is why I don't find the FAQ (and Edward Elrics's opinion of shipping for that matter) no less valid or credible than anybody else's opinion.

Hakajin
31st March 2006, 5:04 AM
Well, a lot of stuff goes on on both sides. The Advanceshippers are just in control now. Pokeshippers got a bad rep years ago for being bratty, which was admittedly deserved, but the community has matured quite a bit. And anyway, I think it's perfectly all right to say whatever you like about a shipping group in your own thread. If the people of another ship don't want to hear it, they shouldn't go there because they should know what to expect. As for other people coming into our thread, I don't mind it if they're just criticizing our topic or something, because I think a lot of it is silly too. And if you're talking about Alfonso, he's usually pretty funny, and I don't mind him unless he insults me or something . . . which is more often than not, lol.

But anyway, what I really can't stand from either side is when someone goes into another ship's thread and tries to disprove that ship. As you might have noticed, some shippers, like myself, become extremely emotionally involved in shipping, almost to the point of being pathological. It's very upsetting when your faith in your ship is shaken. If it made the other ship more likely, it wouldn't bother me, because you'd be at least helping yourself, but you gain nothing by doing something like that. You only make a bunch of people who, even if they're wrong and won't admit they're ship is wrong, are happy with that, and who aren't hurting anyone by thinking what they think. Now, if they enter a debate with their theories, that's another story.

~Ghostwriter~
31st March 2006, 8:16 AM
LOL, You just opened up a big can of worms by saying that XD
Ohhh...great. How so? *gulps* ...I really wasn't trying to bash anything....How is it I usually manage to say something wrong? (I have an idea what it was I said - and if it's that, I didn't mean it like that...so I'm really sorry if I offended anyone.)

STJ
31st March 2006, 9:39 AM
Ohhh...great. How so? *gulps* ...I really wasn't trying to bash anything....How is it I usually manage to say something wrong? (I have an idea what it was I said - and if it's that, I didn't mean it like that...so I'm really sorry if I offended anyone.)
LOL, no, you didn't say anything which I feel would be considered offensive or bashing.. It's just that whenever someone mentions anthying along the lines of "alot of Pokeshipping hints were dub added' it usually brings about a long discussion where people will want to argue otherwise XD

In retrospect, I don't think it will, cause it'd be getting off-topic...

Mamoru
31st March 2006, 2:09 PM
I'm amazed that people keep saying that when those who have seen the Japanese episodes, and actually understand Japanese (including myself and Murgatroyd) can confirm that the hints are in the original as well. Hell, the simple fact that most clues have an animation component to them should be enough to make that obvious.

Seriously, ~Ghostwriter~, go get yourself a copy of the old OPS PokéShipping hints list. Obviously, it's out of date as far as the new BF stuff (and even Houen stuff) goes, but everything there for Kanto-Johto is pretty much ironclad. And before you go stating that it's all biased, or whatever, it might do you good to know that the OPS used to be pretty hated by a lot of PokéShippers back in the day, because we actually went out and debated down other PokéShippers who were claiming outlandish things as hints.

~Ghostwriter~
31st March 2006, 8:45 PM
It's just that whenever someone mentions anthying along the lines of "alot of Pokeshipping hints were dub added' it usually brings about a long discussion where people will want to argue otherwise XD
*Looks to above post* O_o I...see what you mean....ugh. Live and learn, right?

To Mamoru - ooookay, now comes the timeless question of Who Do I Believe? Now, we all know about 4Kids notority, and a lot of the people who say they've seen the original also say the hints are not there. I've never once before heard otherwise, and (before now) have had no reason to doubt the credibility.


And before you go stating that it's all biased, or whatever, it might do you good to know that the OPS used to be pretty hated by a lot of PokéShippers back in the day,
And before you go assuming I'm biased, or whatever - believe it or not, I like PokéShipping as well as AdvanceShipping. Most people probably wouldn't get that, but I think both Misty and May are cool (shocking, huh?), and could see Ash with either. (FYI, I also like EgoShipping and ContestShipping.) It wasn't my intention to sound biased; I apologize if it sounded like that to you.

Ugh...I knew I shouldn't have answered in this thread....once again, sorry if I offended anyone. TTFN.

intergalactic platypus
1st April 2006, 12:29 AM
This forum is full of people who hate Misty for some reason, and your typical Misty hater also hates pokeshipping because they don't want to see her paired with the main character. It is also equally full of people with a perverse, decidedly sexual obsession with May who admit that they want her, and most of them hate pokeshipping since they wanna put themselves in Ashes place by supporting advanceshipping rabidly. Yes I know that was biased

CyberCubed
1st April 2006, 2:12 AM
It really was, since a lot of girls on this forum put themselves in May's shoes and want to experience romance with Drew. It works both ways.

intergalactic platypus
1st April 2006, 4:17 AM
Cyber, I'm fully aware of that. Although I don't support contestshipping that strongly and can't say I do that, a lot of girls do. However, they don't show a raging contempt for the other most popular May ship character (Ash) and I haven't seen quite as many blatantly perverted comments. Plus I admit I pick on May fanatics more then other fanatical people; its bad but I can't help myself

Hakajin
1st April 2006, 5:14 AM
It really was, since a lot of girls on this forum put themselves in May's shoes and want to experience romance with Drew. It works both ways.

There is a lot of projection in shipping, at least obsessive shipping, but it's not always sexual. Shippers tend to identify more with one character than another though, and intense feelings can result from shipping. These are both signs of projection, of seeing oneself in the relationship. It's almost as if one of the character becomes your alter-ego. This is almost always unintentional and usually unconcious, but it's obvious when you start analying the reasons for shipping.