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Koubagia
1st April 2006, 11:03 AM
I was just wondering if in the theoretical situation that a Sableye had Wonder Guard, would there be any way to kill it? Remember that Sableye has no weaknesses. This is what we have so far:


Destiny Bond
Foresight followed by a Fighting move
Confusion
Poison
Burn
Spikes
Sandstorm
Hail
Leech Seed
Ghost Curse
Perish song
XD Shadow Attacks
Future Sight/Doom Desire
Recoil Damage
Rough Skin

Bear in mind that because Sableye gets Refresh and Recover, nearly all of these wouldn't work in practice.

Char1016
1st April 2006, 11:09 AM
No, and no-one is crazy to make him with Wonderguard.

The Benmeister
1st April 2006, 11:12 AM
But if you did, someone could just use Foresight then a fighting attack. There goes your strategy.

Koubagia
1st April 2006, 11:18 AM
I'm not talking about making one, that's impossible. I'm just talking about "in theory".

Foresight, Destiny Bond, I considered these. Any others?

Mystify
1st April 2006, 11:24 AM
Burn.

Poison.

Confuse.

Spikes (If they kept switching in)

Sandstorm

Hail.

Smile Guy
1st April 2006, 11:26 AM
Maybe if you threw a poke ball at it...?

:)

noh8red32
1st April 2006, 11:38 AM
Would Hipnosis then Dream Eater/NightMare work against it? I've PWND alot of trainers using that combo!! (Traded my Gengar from Fire Red to my Emerald and he rocks!!)

The Benmeister
1st April 2006, 11:39 AM
Ghost is not super effective against Sableye, so no.

Koubagia
1st April 2006, 11:39 AM
Burn. How would you burn it? It resists fire, including Will-O-Wisp.

Poison. How would you poison it? It resists poison, including Toxic e.t.c.

Confuse. I'm not sure about this one, maybe. Wouldn't it resist Confuse Ray e.t.c.

Spikes (If they kept switching in) I suppose.

Sandstorm That would be one slooow method, but it would work.

Hail. Slooow again, but it would work.

So, our solutions so far:

Destiny Bond
Foresight
Confusion?
Poison?
Burn?
Spikes
Sandstorm
Hail

Freeze Knight
1st April 2006, 11:40 AM
So, our solutions so far:

Destiny Bond
Foresight
Confusion?
Poison?
Burn?
Spikes
Sandstorm
Hail
Leech Seed

noh8red32
1st April 2006, 11:41 AM
how about exposion?

Freeze Knight
1st April 2006, 11:42 AM
how about exposion?
It's a normal type attack so it wouldn't effect Sableye even without Wonder Guard.

Koubagia
1st April 2006, 11:42 AM
Leech Seed maybe, athough it resists Grass...

I'll add it with a question mark anyway.

Solutions:

Destiny Bond
Foresight
Confusion?
Poison?
Burn?
Spikes
Sandstorm
Hail
Leech Seed?

Freeze Knight
1st April 2006, 11:43 AM
Leech Seed maybe, athough it resists Grass...

I'll add it with a question mark anyway.

Solutions:

Destiny Bond
Foresight
Confusion?
Poison?
Burn?
Spikes
Sandstorm
Hail
Leech Seed?

Leech Seed effects Sableye! So does Confusion, Burn and Poison...

noh8red32
1st April 2006, 11:43 AM
twister? thanks for all the advice on my moves!

Koubagia
1st April 2006, 11:45 AM
Leech Seed effects Sableye! So does Confusion, Burn and Poison...

But they're not super effective...


twister?

I don't think so, same with Wrap/Fire Spin. Because they do damage, it would just prevent them.

Freeze Knight
1st April 2006, 11:46 AM
twister? thanks for all the advice on my moves!
Ok, to make this clear... no attacking move (except if you use Foresight, Lock on, Mind Reader... I'm not really shure about this attacks) effects Sableye if it has Wonder Guard...

Koubagia
1st April 2006, 11:48 AM
Lock on and mind reader? I thought about those, but they just improve accuracy, don't they? Only foresight has the Ghost-attacking advantage bit.

Freeze Knight
1st April 2006, 11:51 AM
Lock on and mind reader? I thought about those, but they just improve accuracy, don't they? Only foresight has the Ghost-attacking advantage bit.
As I said before... I'm not shure about these 3 moves...

And explain why is Shedinja hit by Sandstorm and Spikes even though it isn't effective on it?

That proves that Sableye can be hit by Leech Seed, Burn, etc.

The Benmeister
1st April 2006, 11:52 AM
Okay, it's only attacking non-super effective moves that don't hit. Non attacking non-super effective moves do hit (which is why Toxic works on Shedinja).

Freeze Knight
1st April 2006, 11:54 AM
Okay, it's only attacking non-super effective moves that don't hit. Non attacking non-super effective moves do hit (which is why Toxic works on Shedinja).
My point exactly!

Koubagia
1st April 2006, 11:54 AM
And explain why is Shedinja hit by Sandstorm and Spikes even though it isn't effective on it?

Easy. Once they are laid out on the field, they are not attacks, they are part of the environment, and the game classes them as that, and Wonder Guard only prevents direct attacks.

Freeze Knight
1st April 2006, 11:55 AM
Okay, it's only attacking non-super effective moves that don't hit. Non attacking non-super effective moves do hit (which is why Toxic works on Shedinja).
Read this post...

Koubagia
1st April 2006, 11:56 AM
Okay, it's only attacking non-super effective moves that don't hit. Non attacking non-super effective moves do hit (which is why Toxic works on Shedinja).

Okay then, Poison, Burn, Confusion and Leech Seed get their question marks removed.

Solutions:

Destiny Bond
Foresight followed by a Fighting move
Confusion
Poison
Burn
Spikes
Sandstorm
Hail
Leech Seed

Neopolis
1st April 2006, 11:59 AM
Isn't Toxic (Well, Poison) super effective against Shedinja?

Freeze Knight
1st April 2006, 12:01 PM
Isn't Toxic (Well, Poison) super effective against Shedinja?
No, it's not.

Koubagia
1st April 2006, 12:01 PM
No. Contrary to popular belief, Posion isn't super effective on Bug.

The Benmeister
1st April 2006, 12:11 PM
No. Contrary to popular belief, Posion isn't super effective on Bug.

I think it might have been in the RBY days, but I'm not sure.

But anyway, if it was, it would have been cancelled out as Poison is not very effective on ghost types.

dynamo
1st April 2006, 12:42 PM
Non attacking moves say gfg to wonder guard.

If Sableye has wonder guard, it would probably have 1 HP.

Trainer sent out Tyranitar!

Tyranitar's sand stream whipped up a sandstorm!

Sableye is buffeted by the sandstorm!

Sableye fainted!

Dramatic Melody
1st April 2006, 1:34 PM
^
but the thing is...what if it won't?

dynamo
1st April 2006, 1:53 PM
Well then it would be nearly as broken as Wobbufet ._.

Koubagia
1st April 2006, 3:44 PM
Yeah, but we're not saying it should be put in the game, we're just exploring the "what if" scenario. For fun.

DarkSpectrum
1st April 2006, 4:00 PM
The trick on wonderguard on ANY pokemon that will/might/theoretically have it is that non-attacking moves would work on it.
Will-o-wisp
Toxic
Confuse ray
swagger
leech seed
wrap
sandstorm
etc. etc. etc.
all of those moves, whether their type is super-effective or not, would work because they are not directly attacking the pokemon with wonderguard, they are giving it a condition or changing the environment.
And If you wanted a super effective move on sableye.... any fighting move would work as long as you used one of the foresight moves first.

Naraku_Diabolos
1st April 2006, 6:29 PM
But if you did, someone could just use Foresight then a fighting attack. There goes your strategy.

NOPE. Tried that. Even with Wonderguard, SOMEHOW Fighting-type attacks do NORMAL (not super-effective) damage. Try that in Granite Cave in R/S. I've done it, and it doesn't work.

EDIT:


Non attacking moves say gfg to wonder guard.

If Sableye has wonder guard, it would probably have 1 HP.

Trainer sent out Tyranitar!

Tyranitar's sand stream whipped up a sandstorm!

Sableye is buffeted by the sandstorm!

Sableye fainted!

No, Sableye doesn't have ONE HP lol

dynamo
1st April 2006, 6:32 PM
I know it doesn't *******, but if it had more than one with wonder guard it would be freaking broken ._.

*$hinydragonite*
1st April 2006, 6:43 PM
how about the odor sleuth/headbutt combo from linoone? I read about someone using that on some chat board.

Shiney_Hunter_Tauros_Rule
1st April 2006, 6:45 PM
I think that would be cruel of Nintendo to do that.
And imagine if it had all ghost attacks and came up against a normal poke with Arena Trap etc

Evanji Axu
1st April 2006, 6:58 PM
Cacturne uses Leech Seed and Spikes. A bunch of turns later, Sableye iz ded.

Volteon
1st April 2006, 7:00 PM
In the list it´s missing Perish song, it´s more efective than all the others (if used with mean look/another trap move)

@lex
1st April 2006, 7:00 PM
Bug moves, dangit, why isn't anybody saying this? :P

jellsprout
1st April 2006, 7:00 PM
Recoil damage also affects Pokémon with Wonder Guard. That is why Take Down is part of the joke Shedinja movesets.
I think you have covered everything else.

And Toxic, etc. DO affect Pokémon with Wonder Guard, because they don't do damage. Wonder Guard only blocks damage, not the special effects.

Volteon
1st April 2006, 7:02 PM
Bug moves, dangit, why isn't anybody saying this? :P
Ghost is resistant to bug, turning dark weakness neutral.
You forgot that sableye is the only pokémon with no weakness?

Tumbleweed
1st April 2006, 8:01 PM
Ya know, when I was going through my Emerald Version I had this Sableye. And once it went up against this Machoke. And the machoke used Vital Throw... and it was super-effective! o_O Yea, it was really strange.

Volteon
1st April 2006, 8:21 PM
Ya know, when I was going through my Emerald Version I had this Sableye. And once it went up against this Machoke. And the machoke used Vital Throw... and it was super-effective! o_O Yea, it was really strange.
One word: Foresight.
It cancels ghost imunities, turning Sableye´s "dark side" weak to fighting.

9voltdude
1st April 2006, 8:29 PM
you can make a modified one on netbattle (cheat)

but it could be killed by stuff like toxic

The Organizer
1st April 2006, 8:36 PM
Why is this being discussed? IMO it has nothing to do with emerald.

But i would use the hail stratagie to kill it

~*Myuu the Ryuu*~
1st April 2006, 8:50 PM
Why is this being discussed? IMO it has nothing to do with emerald.

But i would use the hail stratagie to kill it
Because this is the R/S/E DISCUSSION board. You can discuss the games and related ideas to the games here. Shedinja, Wonder Guard, Sableye, are all from R/S/E, so it's classified as R/S/E discussable (sp?)

Theoretically , a Wonder Guard Sableye wouldn't be invincible. It's still susceptible to status attacks, even if they aren't super efeective.

A Lum berry would buy you one free turn if this happened, so you could switch out. Even if it was created, it would be far from 00ber. Toxic is a very popular attack nowadays, and it's a staple to every annoyer out there.

I saw a shedinja/sableye mix sprite somewhere on the forums in someone's sig, i can't remember where...

EDIT: You forgot Shadow Attacks. They are super effecive against non-shadows and therefore will hit the wonder guard sableye.

Volteon
3rd April 2006, 5:35 AM
I saw a shedinja/sableye mix sprite somewhere on the forums in someone's sig, i can't remember where...
Rekuza ryu, I found your answer:
http://www.serebiiforums.com/member.php?u=36396
:D

I we can´t have shedinja (or sableye) in XD before Catching all the shadows, so one will use against it.

Fizz
3rd April 2006, 6:49 AM
Since it's only hypothetical, you could have a Shadow Sableye, say... 2 on 2 with Rayquaza (Air Lock), and use Safeguard. Wouldn't that block pretty much everything except the Mean Look/Perish Song and Foresight/Fighting Move combos?

Black Murder Heavangelon
3rd April 2006, 7:59 AM
Listen, I heard of this combo and I only know of one way to truly make this Wonder Gaurded Sabeleye vulnerable again.

Another Skill Swap.

Skill Swap TM's are rare and a few pokemon can use them, but at least the Sableye is vulnerable again and you have Wonder Gaurd as an added bonus.

There you go.

EDIT: Also remember that Wonder Guard doesn't protect the pokemon from super effective attacks. I don't know if people are talking about how to get rid of a Sableye with Wonder Guard, I'm just too lazy to read the whole thread.

Dramatic Melody
3rd April 2006, 8:23 AM
how about the odor sleuth/headbutt combo from linoone? I read about someone using that on some chat board.

i think odor sleuth just prevents the foe to increase it's evasion/use double team or minimize...

and since headbutt is normal, and ghost is immune to normal, it won't work...

öpi
3rd April 2006, 10:36 AM
Black Murder Heavangelon: As I know, WOnder Guard is not able to be traded by Skill Swap...
Freckles: Odor Sleuth and another Move, I forgot the name, have a 2nd effect: That Normal (and fighting) type moves do work on ghost Pokémon.

To counter a Wonder Guard Sableye, one would either need to change whole the team to counter it, or it would take loooong, very loooooooong to kill it *__*

And that Shedinja Sableye Mix rox =)

Koubagia
3rd April 2006, 7:13 PM
Wonder Guard is impossible to Skill Swap. Believe me, I've tried. We're just talking hypothetical, as a Wonder Guard Sableye is totally impossible. No way to do it.

Nightdawn
3rd April 2006, 7:56 PM
...hmmm Wonder Guard is todays Wonder~~

Wonder Guard on a Slowking? Skill Swaping it?

Dramatic Melody
4th April 2006, 1:35 AM
Freckles: Odor Sleuth and another Move, I forgot the name, have a 2nd effect: That Normal (and fighting) type moves do work on ghost Pokémon.


oh ok thanks for telling :D

Any annoyer could beat it (although you'll need all the patience you could have). Toxic + Sandstorm/Hail + Leech Seed and maybe Spikes would damage it so it could work :D

Although the only pokemon I can think of that can learn all 4 of them (excludhing Hail) is Cacturne.

Char1016
4th April 2006, 12:39 PM
Leech Seed

It has Wonder Guard in this case, it isn't Super Effective, so, you can't beat the thing with thi move.

Supersonic - Will this one work?

Dramatic Melody
4th April 2006, 12:43 PM
It has Wonder Guard in this case, it isn't Super Effective, so, you can't beat the thing with thi move.

Supersonic - Will this one work?

Leech Seed isn't an attacking move, so it would work, since i think Wonder Guard applies only to attacking moves.

If the above is correct, Supersonic (or any other status-inducing move) could work.

Mighty
4th April 2006, 7:33 PM
I'm surprised that so many people here think that moves like Leech Seed are counted as normal moves! Like someone has already said, they are environmental attacks (even leech seed).

That being said, the best ways to get rid of a Wonder Guard Sableye would be:
Ghost Curse Leech Seed Toxic

Volteon
4th April 2006, 7:43 PM
Oh yes, we forgot about Ghost curses...

All we have in the last pages is this:


Destiny Bond
Foresight followed by a Fighting move
Confusion
Poison
Burn
Spikes
Sandstorm
Hail
Leech Seed
Ghost Curse
Perish song

Koubagia
4th April 2006, 8:20 PM
There's actually a suprisingly large amount of ways, isn't there? I thought it would be the odd one or two things like Destiny Bond and Foresight, but there is actually a suprisingly big list.

Mighty
4th April 2006, 9:21 PM
For the most part the list comprises of things that hit outside of a move, moves that I've decided to name Drainers (I don't know if there's already a term for it, but oh well). The only real attacks that are possible are Destiny Bond, Foresight followed by a Fighting move and destiny bond.

shauntheiceman
4th April 2006, 10:09 PM
my god why would you want a sableye like that could you just imagine trying to beat one "shudders" you would need a pokemon specifically in case you ran into one

Mighty
4th April 2006, 10:47 PM
It would only require having a pokemon with mean look + curse/toxic, which isn't a terrible tactic anyway IMO.

Black Murder Heavangelon
5th April 2006, 6:42 AM
Black Murder Heavangelon: As I know, WOnder Guard is not able to be traded by Skill Swap...

Well, if it can't, then how did the Sableye GET Wonder Guard in the first place? If you can switch abilities in the first place, why not again? All I know is, that once you get it's Wonder Guard ability away, it'll be vulnerable to attacks with secondary status effects, like thunderpunch/poison sting. And last time I checked, there's only one pokemon with wonder guard. =>;292;

Sorry, your just testing my pokemon knowledge. I'm a pokebraniac! :P

EDIT: I realized that neither Sableye or Shedinja can use Skill Swap, but that doesn't mean he can't get the ability.

Procedure as follows:

Stantler used Skill Swap!

Stantler swapped abilities with Shedinja.

Trainer recalled Shedinja.

Go Sableye.

Stantler used Skill Swap.

Stantler swapped abilities with Sableye.

There you go...

Fizz
5th April 2006, 6:54 AM
Problem is, Wonder Guard can't be Skill Swapped. The Wonder Guard Sableye is impossible to obtain. It's still fun to discuss a near-invincible Pokemon, though.

Black Murder Heavangelon
5th April 2006, 7:53 AM
Maybe you should pay a bit more attention to my demo above. It IS possible to get a Wonder Guard Sableye.

Fizz
5th April 2006, 9:42 AM
But I thought Wonder Guard couldn't be Skill Swapped by anyone?

Koubagia
5th April 2006, 5:16 PM
Wonder Guard blocks Skill Swap. I have tried that technique as part of a double battle strategy, and if Skill Swap is used on Shedinja, it just says "SHEDINJA avoided damge with WONDER GUARD"

Metal Force
5th April 2006, 5:22 PM
Yes you can:
Foresight + fighting move or Destiny Bond or states proplems such as poisen.

Shadows Follower
5th April 2006, 6:51 PM
Shame Sableye cannot have Wonder Guard. Would make a darn good challenge in battle.

Fizz
5th April 2006, 7:09 PM
It's also a shame both Golduck and Rayquaza cannot learn Safeguard. Cloud Nine/Air Lock to block Sandstorm/Hail and Safeguard to block Status effects would have made WGS that much closer to invincibility...

Black Murder Heavangelon
6th April 2006, 2:35 AM
Wonder Guard blocks Skill Swap. I have tried that technique as part of a double battle strategy, and if Skill Swap is used on Shedinja, it just says "SHEDINJA avoided damge with WONDER GUARD"

Wait a minute... Skill Swap isn't an attack. Maybe Nintendo realized how much of a death machine Shedinja is. I guess i have no point in discussing this any further then.

By the way, I nicknamed my Shedinja Khaos and Sableye Dead eye

Gliese
6th April 2006, 12:53 PM
Wonder Guard blocks Skill Swap. I have tried that technique as part of a double battle strategy, and if Skill Swap is used on Shedinja, it just says "SHEDINJA avoided damge with WONDER GUARD"
it worked for me on XD

Koubagia
6th April 2006, 7:39 PM
On XD? Hmm, this is an idea that would be worth looking into. Someone see if they can pull of a WGS using the method described somewhere on this page on XD.

Fizz
7th April 2006, 1:58 AM
I'll set up my Gamecube and check it out (that is, if I have Skill Swap on one of my games).

EDIT: Cool, I've got Skill Swap. I'll set up my GCN in a few minutes.

EDIT2: Well, I just finished testing it on XD, and you can't Skill Swap Wonder Guard there, either. Curious thing, it said "the attack failed" when used, instead of the Wonder Guard message.

~Austin~
7th April 2006, 4:42 AM
If a Sableye had Wonder Guard it would be unbeatable! Anyways it is impossible because why would Nintendo do that anyways? I mean no one could have beaten the E4 'cuz the 2nd Elite has a Sableye.

Zip
8th April 2006, 1:08 AM
Is it not possible to chain breed abilities in Emerald? According to the site, if one of the parents holds an everstone there is a 50% chance that the hatched pokemon will have that ability. I've never gotten it to work though.
But it's still impossible because Shedinja has no egg group. Although I'm wondering if you could chain breed Volt Absorb onto a water type, or something like that.

Fiery Blaziken
8th April 2006, 1:59 AM
Skill swap?
Edit: Nevermind >_> Maybe poison or leech seed?

Evanji Axu
8th April 2006, 2:25 AM
Is it not possible to chain breed abilities in Emerald? According to the site, if one of the parents holds an everstone there is a 50% chance that the hatched pokemon will have that ability. I've never gotten it to work though.
But it's still impossible because Shedinja has no egg group. Although I'm wondering if you could chain breed Volt Absorb onto a water type, or something like that.

No. You must be thinking about natures.

Fizz
8th April 2006, 3:10 AM
Does Trace copy Wonder Guard? Maybe you could Skill Swap Trace onto a Sableye, then Trace Wonder Guard.

Black Murder Heavangelon
8th April 2006, 5:53 AM
Does Trace copy Wonder Guard? Maybe you could Skill Swap Trace onto a Sableye, then Trace Wonder Guard.

That could work, but not many trainers have a Shedinja...

Besides, you lose the Trace ability as soon as the pokemon gets sent out into the field.

What about "Role Play"?

I hope you can use Role Play on a Shedinja, if not, then back to square one...

Fizz
8th April 2006, 6:29 AM
I don't think you can...

~*Dairuga*~
8th April 2006, 6:41 AM
What about Whirlpool

Black Murder Heavangelon
8th April 2006, 6:42 AM
What about Whirlpool

Whirlpool is an attack.

So, no Role Play then...

Fizz
8th April 2006, 8:13 AM
I thought of a hypothetical way of getting this to work, without using Sableye at all... Though even if you could pull it off, it would still be a gamble to use. So, here goes.

You have a Porygon and a Shedinja in a double battle, the Shedinja knowing Mimic, Faint Attack, and Thief, (basically, as many Dark Type moves it can learn + Mimic) and the Porygon knowing Conversion. Have Porygon use Conversion, and Shedinja use Mimic on Porygon to get Conversion. Now, I'm not sure how this would work with a dual typed Pokémon, so bear with me. Next turn have Shedinja use Conversion. If the move works like I hope it does, Type 1, Bug, will be changed. If so, there's a 2 in 3 chance Conversion will hit a Dark Type Move. If it works correctly, Shedinja would be Dark/Ghost!

Koubagia
8th April 2006, 8:44 AM
That would work, I think. Anyone going to try it?

Fizz
8th April 2006, 8:56 AM
I would but I don't have Porygon. The only thing I'm not sure about is how a dual type reacts to Conversion. If someone could answer that, it would answer the whole problem.

Koubagia
8th April 2006, 11:07 AM
Well, me and Fizz have set up the scenario above in Netbattle... and it didn't work. It became pure Dark rather than Dark/Ghost. So close...

Fizz
8th April 2006, 11:10 AM
Sooo... Now what? Wanna get Mythbusters? Is this Busted?

Koubagia
8th April 2006, 11:12 AM
This thread is really for in theory situations anyway, so its fine. I think we've listed all the possible counters, though. Any other obscure obtaining ideas?

Fizz
8th April 2006, 11:16 AM
I think having it be Pure Dark isn't that bad. One weakness if I'm not mistaken, and STAB with Faint Attack. The only problem is Fighting moves and Status/Field moves.

EDIT: Or, you could make it constantly be switching types. Teach it 3 different type attacks. That'd be hard to hit, I'd think, coupled with the fact that it would get STAB for whatever type it was at the moment.

EDIT2: Curselax... Skarmbliss... Now, a new fighting machine is born with a cool name... STABinja™!!!

Koubagia
8th April 2006, 11:26 AM
I think normal would be best for a single type, as there is only one obscure weakness (Fighting) which is rarely seen, except for Focus Punch (which won't work on a sweeper). You would get STAB Frustration then, which is 153 power, which won't be bad with 306 attack power.

sixthfloorsuicide
8th April 2006, 11:42 AM
why not use mind reader+fighting attack to hurt Sableye with wonder guard...could work but then again, i never tried it before...

Fizz
8th April 2006, 11:44 AM
Would it even be worth it? You'd have to skip one turn with Porygon(2), and two with Shedinja. Unless you can Mimic a Smeargle's Sketch, then Sketch Conversion... You wouldn't need Porygon(2), which means STABinja could actually be used...

Koubagia
8th April 2006, 11:54 AM
Sketch can't be mimicd

Fizz
8th April 2006, 11:57 AM
Darn. I guess that would be really cheap, 'cause if a Pokémon could learn Mimic they could learn anything... So, anything left to discuss?

The Benmeister
8th April 2006, 3:29 PM
Doesn't dark have two weaknesses? Fighting and Bug? Just pointing that out.

sixthfloorsuicide
8th April 2006, 3:42 PM
Doesn't dark have two weaknesses? Fighting and Bug? Just pointing that out.

Yes. But a 'Wonder Guard' Sableye would be completely immune to them as they would only deal 'effective' hits (not super effective) because Sableye is part-Ghost...

Elemental_Confusion
12th April 2006, 1:26 AM
but there is still the fact that skill swamp would work like this

Skill swamp = Invincable

Volteon
12th April 2006, 1:30 AM
You mean skill swap?
No, Wonder guard is the ONLY ability that can´t be swaped.
The only way to copy wonder guard is via Trace, if you use Role play or skill swap in a shedinja, they´ll both say "It has no effect" or something like that.

The Benmeister
12th April 2006, 1:33 AM
Yes. But a 'Wonder Guard' Sableye would be completely immune to them as they would only deal 'effective' hits (not super effective) because Sableye is part-Ghost...

I was referring to the rather odd strategy involving Porygon above.

Phosphate
12th April 2006, 1:37 AM
I was just wondering if in the theoretical situation that a Sableye had Wonder Guard, would there be any way to kill it?
A Sableye has two weaknesses: one to fighting types and a 4x weakness to bug-types. A bug type attack like Megahorn makes contact with a ghost, but a fighting type attack like focus punch doesn't affect a ghost, so you can use foresight on Sableye and then physical attacks can land on it, so since Machamp can learn the attack, first forsight and then cross chop, then you have victory. But, you can just use a simple bug move like fury cutter and it will normally damage a ghost, so, there is still no invincible Pokemon.
In other words:
Bug attack = Sableye's defeat. Foresight + fighting attack = Sableye's defeat, even with a theoretical Wonder Guard.

Fizz
12th April 2006, 1:48 AM
Here's a list of obtaining ideas that won't work, before people start posting things that have been proven impossible.

1. Skill Swap/Role Play- Wonder Guard can't be Skill Swapped or Role Played; it's the only Ability that can't be affected by either of these.
2. Trace- You can use it on Wonder Guard, but there's no way to get it onto Sableye.
3. The theory I had involving Conversion- It'll make Shedinja a pure Dark-type, not Dark/Ghost as I hoped it would.

And why didn't anyone think of Bug-types till now? It seems kinda pathetic when it's on the 6th page...

Theneedleman
12th April 2006, 2:12 AM
Don't forget about Perish Song...It will make all pokemon faint within three turns.

BobDoily
12th April 2006, 2:26 AM
Bug type = Super effective against Dark
Bug type = Not very effective against Ghost

that doesn't work

woot21
12th April 2006, 2:35 AM
Well, I just finished testing it on XD, and you can't Skill Swap Wonder Guard there, either. Curious thing, it said "the attack failed" when used, instead of the Wonder Guard message.
I'm just curious did you use foresight or oder slueth first? If you didn't that might be why it didn't work.

Fizz
12th April 2006, 2:39 AM
I was testing whether you could Skill Swap Wonder Guard on XD, not if you could hit a Sableye with Wonder Guard on said game. But no, I didn't use Foresight or Oder Sleuth first.

Bug type = Super effective against Dark
Bug type = Not very effective against Ghost

that doesn't workSo that's why it was never brought up.

Koubagia
12th April 2006, 9:27 AM
A Sableye has two weaknesses: one to fighting types and a 4x weakness to bug-types. A bug type attack like Megahorn makes contact with a ghost, but a fighting type attack like focus punch doesn't affect a ghost, so you can use foresight on Sableye and then physical attacks can land on it, so since Machamp can learn the attack, first forsight and then cross chop, then you have victory. But, you can just use a simple bug move like fury cutter and it will normally damage a ghost, so, there is still no invincible Pokemon.
In other words:
Bug attack = Sableye's defeat. Foresight + fighting attack = Sableye's defeat, even with a theoretical Wonder Guard.

People, Sableye has NO WEAKNESSES. That was the whole point of this thread.

Also if you'd read the thread, you would have noticed that Foresight + A Fighting Move was one of the first things we came up with.

Demonic
12th April 2006, 6:00 PM
oh oh oh what about perish song ? that would work or cause him to switch would it work ?

~*Mudkip Fantastic*~
12th April 2006, 6:13 PM
But Wonder Guard does not prevent Toxic or Will-O-Wisp. My Shedinja has fainted many a time because of toxic

Koubagia
12th April 2006, 6:18 PM
Nearly everything everyone has said we've had at least once. Here is the complete list so far:

Destiny Bond
Foresight followed by a Fighting move
Confusion
Poison
Burn
Spikes
Sandstorm
Hail
Leech Seed
Ghost Curse
Perish song
XD Shadow Attacks

It's now in the first post too. Now no-one can suggest something we already have (although I bet they will).

WhiteWizard42
12th April 2006, 6:35 PM
... i can't believe that this hasn't yet been mentioned on the 6th page, but ...

Future Sight/ Doom Desire.

also, you can trade into XD before you purify all the shadows. just not before you beat greevil for the first time. so add "XD shadow attacks/shadow sky" to the list.

Koubagia
12th April 2006, 7:04 PM
Do Future Sight and Doom Desire work on Shedinja? Also, does Future Sight work on Dark types?

WhiteWizard42
12th April 2006, 7:14 PM
yes and yes. i tested them both out.

that's why, when you fight wally in victory road, his gardevoir has future sight. because its only other attacking move is psychic, they didn't want to make it too easy to defeat wally's prized pokemon. i tried using a sableye against it my first time through, not expecting that he could actually hit it. oh well.

and one of the battle CDs on colosseum require you to use future sight to defeat a shedinja, so i know that works.

Mighty
12th April 2006, 7:25 PM
I guess Future Sight is just categorised for convenience, kind of like Confuse Ray (ghost, but works on Normal types).

Koubagia
12th April 2006, 7:31 PM
Okay then *updates first post*

Zodiac The Vampire
12th April 2006, 9:45 PM
Some other things to consider...

What if said Wonder Guard Sableye had Taunt? Nothing would be able to hit it other than... Tyranitar.

If the Sableye had a move that did recoil damage, attacked a Pokémon with an ability such as Rough Skin, or ran out of moves and was forced to use Struggle, then it'd be beaten.

If it had Explosion/Self-Destruct it would also kill itself (even if Sableye doesn't learn these, it could Metronome them, for example).

Black Murder Heavangelon
13th April 2006, 2:04 AM
Some other things to consider...

What if said Wonder Guard Sableye had Taunt? Nothing would be able to hit it other than... Tyranitar.

If the Sableye had a move that did recoil damage, attacked a Pokémon with an ability such as Rough Skin, or ran out of moves and was forced to use Struggle, then it'd be beaten.

If it had Explosion/Self-Destruct it would also kill itself (even if Sableye doesn't learn these, it could Metronome them, for example).

Who'd be dumb enough to let a Sableye learn Self-destruct/Explosion?

Also, I think Future sight/Doom desire is a good tactic. Both moves strike at the end of two turns and they're always the last effects in a battle. Since Future sight/Doom desire can inflict damage on a dark type, so ;360; a Wonder Guard Sableye? Both attacks vary on the stats of the user the turn it was used and the stats of the opponent on the turn it strikes. Isn't Future sight/Doom desire varied by Special attack? All we need is a strong pokemon that can use Future with a high Sp. atk like Ho-oh and a Doom desire user like Jirachi or Smeargle (Sketch attack). So long ;292; 'n' ;302;!

Savage X
13th April 2006, 3:28 AM
I don't want to sound silly but....

What's a wounder gaurd?

leafgreen386
13th April 2006, 3:33 AM
Theoretically , a Wonder Guard Sableye wouldn't be invincible. It's still susceptible to status attacks, even if they aren't super efeective.

A Lum berry would buy you one free turn if this happened, so you could switch out. Even if it was created, it would be far from 00ber. Toxic is a very popular attack nowadays, and it's a staple to every annoyer out there.
Sableye gets Refresh and Recover. How has everyone overlooked this? Give it leftovers and it's counters become so rare it's broken (well more broken than most of you thought it was before anyway) - Foresight+Fighting, Perish Song, DBond, and Future Sight/Doom Desire (am I forgetting something?)

That's all that would work.

Volteon
13th April 2006, 3:36 AM
Wonder Guard (http://www.serebii.net/pokemon_advance/characteristics.shtml) :/

At least you didn´t open a new thread.

Shadowman
6th July 2006, 5:35 PM
Ok,this is long,so here goes.A hariama is about to use belly drum.Sabeleye uses snatch and takes belly drum,losing half its health.
OR
A starmie uses camaflage and sableye uses snatch.Sabeley turnes to whatever type,thus changing wonder guards effects.

Dark Aerodactyl
6th July 2006, 5:52 PM
crunch works

Volteon
6th July 2006, 6:14 PM
Ok,this is long,so here goes.A hariama is about to use belly drum.Sabeleye uses snatch and takes belly drum,losing half its health.
OR
A starmie uses camaflage and sableye uses snatch.Sabeley turnes to whatever type,thus changing wonder guards effects.
Excluding the pop up you did to this thread, you had a great idea!

And Dark Aerodactyl, Sableye has no weakness...

Dratini927
6th July 2006, 8:38 PM
O_o why are people posting in a thread that's almost 3 months old? Looks like some people don't necessarily read the rules. @_@

*Closes*