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MarcmenX
14th May 2006, 5:39 AM
For a long time, we've seen plenty of normally straight anime characters paired up and turned gay for the sake of fandom.

What I want to know is... what would happen if some one actually decided to support a shipping where a normally gay character was in a relationship with a character who was of the sex they are not attracted to?

If yaoi fangirls (and fanboys) are allowed to turn straight character's gay (or bi) then wouldn't it be fair for people who like het couples to change the sexuality of a gay character for the sake of a shipping?

an example I'd like to give is Kamatari X Yumi from the anime series "Kenshin" why do I support it? Kamatari is a gay male in love with Shishio, and Yumi is a straight girl in love with Shishio, so the two often fight over him. The thing is, I've seen fangirls support shippings of 2 guys who always fight over a girl... So how would Kamatari X Yumi be any different?

discuss please, and I really hope I don't sound like a homophobe. I don't believe that homosexuality it wrong, hell, I support some yaoi/yuri pairings myself...

taitofan
14th May 2006, 5:51 AM
It already happens, a lot. Harley still gets paired with chicks, as do Jakotsu, Fish Eye, Zoisite, Shuichi, enter-more-canonly-gay-males-here... Same with canon lesbians. Haruka (Sailormoon) occasionally is paired with males too.

I don't really care. It's fandom, and I just stay away from couples I don't like. It'd be unfair to expect characters to always be written with the same sexual orientation they have, so I don't expect anything. Fandom is crazy like that. Just because Jakotsu falling in love with Kagome is about as likely as Kouga falling in love with Inuyasha, that doesn't mean it won't have its fans. You just gotta respect what other people like, you know?

MarcmenX
14th May 2006, 8:38 AM
Really, wow, this must be incredibly rare...

wait, hold on, is it mainly with just OC's/Mary Sue's this happens, or are there more pairings like these with actual characters?

taitofan
14th May 2006, 1:21 PM
Both. But I see it more often with actual characters. Like I said, I've seen JakotsuxKagome fics. Another example: I've seen Gravitation's Shuichi paired with Rage and OCs. Or we could stick with Pokemon: I've seen Harley paired with Haruka before, and actually in love with her.

Quite frankly, I hate stories like that. But I respect that others like them. I don't read what I don't like, and I expect the het fans to do the same with my yaoi/yuri fics. I won't flame them for making Harley straight, but I expect them not to flame me for making Takeshi gay, whether we agree with each other or not.

Craziest pairing I've seen: Fish Eye x Haruka, a canonly gay male and a lesbian. There's so much wrong with that... But hey, whatever floats their boat.

Tropical Spirit
14th May 2006, 8:15 PM
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with straight shippings who involve gay characters. They don't deserve less respect than gay shippings with straight characters. :x I may not support any of them, but people have the right to like any ship. After all, shipping is all about fun and imagination!

..Don't let the constant wars fool you. :(

intergalactic platypus
14th May 2006, 10:48 PM
Despite the fact that slash fans may get defensive and say "LYKE OMG HOMOPHOBE!!1!" if you turn a gay character straight, its pretty much the same as saying a straight character is gay. Both are fine; they may not be canon but shipping isn't about canon after all. Its about using your imagination *sparkly rainbow*

Toran Frostbite
15th May 2006, 4:46 AM
Did an essay on this. Don't find it exactly fine.

But since writing that essay gave me a headache, I'll break down the why's:

In most canon media, the assumed straight people vastly outnumber the proven gay people. And I say 'assumed straight' and 'proven gay', because being straight is default, where-as a character has to admit a definitely solid statement they're gay to even be called gay.

You're only proven straight if you say, "I'd NEVER sleep with a guy/girl." And you're only assumed gay if they simply act it (unless the creator specifically admits said sexuality). Not to mention, heterosexuality can easily be used (in fantasy or real life) to hide your homosexuality (and when is it ever used in reverse?). Which personally explains why I like poking at Brock's overenthusiasm. *snicker*

That, and breaking up the gay canon couples is...like.....I dunno, heinous or something, since given all the straight couples you could dabble with, why ruin what little slashers can call their own?

HarleyScarow
20th May 2006, 4:07 AM
Drew and Harley might be a good one. I'm a boy, and I agree that they look so cute when they're together. On a side note, maybe they're just doing this to hint the real world to the viewers?

Hakajin
20th May 2006, 5:09 AM
Did an essay on this. Don't find it exactly fine.

But since writing that essay gave me a headache, I'll break down the why's:

In most canon media, the assumed straight people vastly outnumber the proven gay people. And I say 'assumed straight' and 'proven gay', because being straight is default, where-as a character has to admit a definitely solid statement they're gay to even be called gay.

You're only proven straight if you say, "I'd NEVER sleep with a guy/girl." And you're only assumed gay if they simply act it (unless the creator specifically admits said sexuality). Not to mention, heterosexuality can easily be used (in fantasy or real life) to hide your homosexuality (and when is it ever used in reverse?). Which personally explains why I like poking at Brock's overenthusiasm. *snicker*

That, and breaking up the gay canon couples is...like.....I dunno, heinous or something, since given all the straight couples you could dabble with, why ruin what little slashers can call their own?

So what's your point? Pairing up people as fanon doesn't destroy the couple. It doesn't affect it in anyway, it's not like they're changing the way the plot goes. It doesn't hurt the people who support the gay shipping.

Anyway, I once read a chapter of a manga where a girl was lesbian, and it turned out that her parents were both bisexual, but got married because they wanted to have a kid. Which I think is kinda sweet, because they were really good friends and they cared about each other, even if there was no sexual attraction. They weren't really in love, but they were still happy together, that sort of thing. Could go the other way for strait people, you know, with the unimportance of sexual attraction, if you like.

Another manga I once heard about from Japan is about a girl and a boy who have a crush on the same guy. I think they'd be cute together because I like it when rivals end up together, and it's not what you expect. I don't know how that manga went though.

Jo-Jo
20th May 2006, 5:29 PM
Did Sakura and Syaoran (I just totally mangled that spelling >_<) both have a crush on the same boy, or did I make that up?

My rule for pairing gay characters with the opposite sex in fanfic is the same as my rule for pairing straight characters with the same sex, or any character with any character - do whatever you like, but make it plausible. With some pairings, you have to put more effort into it for it to be plausible, of course. A fic where Harley's paired with May or Jessie or whoever can work, but he'd have to retain his flamboyant personality. And personally, the only way I'd find it believable is if in the fic, he was normally only attracted to guys and was making an exception just this once.

Similarly, anyone pairing Brock with a guy needs to address the fact that in canon, he only drools over women. A fic where he's openly gay and going around hitting on men and ignoring the girls would be a bit much to swallow. A fic where he becomes attracted to a guy and it freaks him out and sends him into denial would be believable. In fact, I think I read an excellent fic once that did that.

One of my biggest peeves with shipping fics in general, though, is the strange refusal to acknowledge the existence of bisexuality. If you want to put Brock in a slashfic, it's not necessary to make him 100% gay and claim that all those girls he went nuts over were just for show. He can like both men and women, and even prefer women, and still end up with a guy. Same goes for any other character.

Seijiro Mafuné
20th May 2006, 8:05 PM
...well, I'm mostly answer due to the above reply, although some of my opinion goes here.

1st: It's... not exactly what it seems, at least not from what I gather. While Sakura truly did have a crush on Yukito, I think it was mostly Yue's aura/presence/whatever-the-eff-that-was that attracted Shorang*.

As for the contradictory gender-bending... honestly, I admit I'm not one to speak. But it's NOT any wrong to write a fic like this, AS LONG AS the characters manage to avoid being TOO OoC, and if the reactions from them are believable.

And about the comment of 'ruining what little slashers can call their own'... a lot of hetshippers have similar comments.

*If you people can say 'Shuu' and 'Satoshi' and what-not, then I do believe I can say 'Shorang' and 'Ruffy' and other names.

hydradragon16
21st May 2006, 3:10 AM
I have nothing wrong with it , I just won't watch or read it .

Kiori
21st May 2006, 3:14 AM
*If you people can say 'Shuu' and 'Satoshi' and what-not, then I do believe I can say 'Shorang' and 'Ruffy' and other names.

Though, it's "Syaoran Li" in the japanese version and "Li Showron" in the english version. :p But I think you already knew that.

Though, I don't find things wrong with people supporting het characters to a slash ship and vice versa. Now, if the anime suddenly made a gay character and up being in a hetero ship without any explanation, then I find it aggravating. That's where fandom comes in and makes itself useful to people & ships. Besides, I don't think there's harm in expanding imaginations of those ships that people just make up, unless the person decide to go too far and annoys everyone.

Raevell
21st May 2006, 7:48 AM
This is a fascinating discussion and I can see the point everyone has.

I think being the rabid yaoi fan I am I would find it aggravating to find a fanfic where they take an actual gay character and make them straight, but that's just due to me being biased. I think everyone has the right to do whatever they want concerning pairings, I'll just avoid the ones I don't like. Besides that we hardly ever get a character that openly declares themselves "gay". We have our suspicions but when is it ever really declared.

Harley is a great example, we've never seen him hit on a guy nor say that he is interested in them. We can all assume that he must be, but would it really be going against canon to write a fanfic and pair him with Jesse?

In fact Shuichi, star of one of the most famous shounen ai animes, never says he's gay. In fact if I recall correctly he denies it, saying that he isn't gay and Yuki is just "special". Someone feel free to correct me on this, I distinctively remember this line in the manga. I don't know if he changes his mind on this by the end of the series though.

Still, nothing angers me more than people proclaiming that certain fans are ruining their fandom with crack pairings and the like. Really, stop taking it all so seriously. If you don't like it, don't read it!

Razor Raven
22nd May 2006, 1:54 AM
Hmm, gonna agree with intergalactic platypus and Jo-Jo here

Since neither writing gay characters as straight, nor straight characters as gay is cannon, there's no reason that one is allowed and the other is, I find both acceptable.

Meanwhile, the writing of said situation should be plausable, writing a character in an out-of-character format is bad form, regardless of pairing / sexuality change, whatever

Heck, out-of-character is bad for any fic, regardless of the content

Bloody Skull
23rd May 2006, 3:40 PM
Personally, I find nothing wrong with it. I put both characters who are canonly homosexual in heterosexual relationships and characters who are canonly heterosexual in homosexual relationships. Really, this is fandom, and shipping is all about having fun and being creative ^__^


Craziest pairing I've seen: Fish Eye x Haruka, a canonly gay male and a lesbian. There's so much wrong with that... But hey, whatever floats their boat.

Hmm... Haruka X Fish Eye? That actually sounds rather interesting. I like it.

WaterTrainer243
23rd May 2006, 4:18 PM
Well, I respect people's opinions on pairing already homosexual characters up and sometimes when they pair straight characters with another character their exact gender. I personally don't find anything wrong with homosexuality (as long as it's not directed at me) and there are some people who often switch the genders of a certain character to make them heterosexual. One person actually turned Kira (from gundam seed) into a girl and paired Kira up with Athrun (also from Gundam seed).

Mimori Kiryu
23rd May 2006, 5:04 PM
In fact Shuichi, star of one of the most famous shounen ai animes, never says he's gay. In fact if I recall correctly he denies it, saying that he isn't gay and Yuki is just "special". Someone feel free to correct me on this, I distinctively remember this line in the manga. I don't know if he changes his mind on this by the end of the series though.He does change his mind. In the last manga issue, Yuki's brother comes in on both Yuki and Shuichi together and starts making fun of them. He makes the comment saying that the reason he 'fell' in on them was because of their (Shuichi and Yuki) forbidden man-love. Shuichi replies with 'Hello?! We're GAY!! What the hell else did you expect?!' So that really doesn't apply here. D:

On everything else, if a character is gay, lesbian or bi and you change them to straight in your mind or your OTP, then I don't think it matters because its your pairing and it's not going to affect the series.

Hakajin
24th May 2006, 4:36 AM
In fact Shuichi, star of one of the most famous shounen ai animes, never says he's gay. In fact if I recall correctly he denies it, saying that he isn't gay and Yuki is just "special". Someone feel free to correct me on this, I distinctively remember this line in the manga. I don't know if he changes his mind on this by the end of the series though.

That reminds me of a lot of stuff that CLAMP does, like Tomoyo and Sakura in CCS, or Suishiro and Subaru in Tokyo Babylon and X. I could see those characters as strait because they're not interested in the other person because of sexual attraction. They're just . . . in love. I don't think it's being bi either. Gender doesn't matter at all in those kind of things, they just like who they like as a person, reguardless.

Toran Frostbite
24th May 2006, 6:22 AM
Personally, I find nothing wrong with it. I put both characters who are canonly homosexual in heterosexual relationships and characters who are canonly heterosexual in homosexual relationships. Really, this is fandom, and shipping is all about having fun and being creative ^__^

Do you make valid/feesible/attempted excuses to why they'd be like that or do you just throw them carelessly together because it's, "OMG hawt!"? =\

Hakajin
25th May 2006, 12:26 AM
Um, why should it matter? Does it have to be feesible for you to like it? It doesn't affect anyone else why someone likes a ship, unless he goes around raving about it all the time. And true, I find implausible fics unrespectable, but I don't have to read them.

Ellie
25th May 2006, 3:23 AM
It doesn't matter. Shipping is almost always based on fictional things to begin with, so why not let the fiction come out the way the fic writer wants it to? If you don't like it, stay away; no one's forcing you to read something if it's not what you like.