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Seijiro Mafuné
17th May 2006, 12:12 AM
Well, I got an idea that might be really good (if people bother to join this time...), but it might have some... complications.

Namely, I'm thinking of adding a special group of abilities for the characters to choose, be they human, Pokémon, or whatever. These are the Advantages (Library, Honor Code, Pure Soul, Innocent) and Disadvantages (Drunkard, Gambler, Compulsive Liar), which are somewhat like Natures, only they aren't born into the character - rather, he develops it on his own, due to plot events or similar stuff.

The problem lies mostly with the PCs, since, I must alert you, I'm going to make sure that you guys keep on the line if it's up (and let me put it like this: if anybody out there chooses Maniac-Depressive as their disadvantage, they'd better roleplay as if they really felt like it, else...). Bad roleplay leads to bad situations, and good roleplay leads to good situations, if you're lucky.

Of course, the fact that this board doesn't really incentivates development isn't really attractive to me...

So, the question is: would you join such a complex game... or would you rather stay with the KISS games of everytime?

rotrum
17th May 2006, 12:36 AM
what?does hat

Seijiro Mafuné
18th May 2006, 12:15 PM
...what do you mean?

Yami Ryu
18th May 2006, 12:22 PM
>_> this sounds more like a bad PC or system game than a forum RPG. I don't see how your 'Fable'-esque system would work out to a forum style RP. Especially as I don't see any plot that would uphold your style of .. whatever.

Seijiro Mafuné
18th May 2006, 7:54 PM
*eye twitches* Bad? You're telling me that complexity, one of the RPG trademarks (as well as involving plots with great twists, special scenarios, and developing characters) is BAD? Do you realize just how many people you just insulted?

In fact, I would be sorry to tell anybody else, but with an attitude like that, how can you call yourself a roleplayer?

Yami Ryu
18th May 2006, 8:02 PM
*eye twitches* Bad? You're telling me that complexity, one of the RPG trademarks (as well as involving plots with great twists, special scenarios, and developing characters) is BAD? Do you realize just how many people you just insulted?

In fact, I would be sorry to tell anybody else, but with an attitude like that, how can you call yourself a roleplayer?

O.o I was just stating my opinion. Sheesh, this is nothing compared to what you did in my Gardivor fic. I was just stating my honest opinion that I don't see how the way you suggested to develop characters could work, as it'd involve too much of a complicated set of variables, probably left for a game that's for a system like a PC/GC/PS2 or something. But even then, it's bland Seijo, it's got no spark to it. You posted the outline for this supposed RP you're making, but no plot.

O_o what is there to make people join, aside from attempting to get to whatever level they wanted their character to be ... when they could just develop their character to something like it naturally over the course of an RPG.

And if I insulted anyone, sheesh, atleast I know how to apologise.

Shadowfaith
18th May 2006, 8:09 PM
I pretty much agree with Renegade. Your making it too complex, you need to keep RPG's simple, that what attracts RPGers. Many RPGers prefere to join RPG's for fun, not for complexity, it will be hard to maintain such a thing.

Yeah, so you covered that part, but wheres the plot? As Renegade said, this just seems like a level up system, you haven't explained anything else.

Seijiro Mafuné
18th May 2006, 8:10 PM
Renegade: An opinion that is negative, okay... an opinion that makes no sense? No way.

...set of variables? Uh, no. I gave examples that indicated, just by name, they lacked variables.

Also... Who said I'm going to post it here? I was just asking for opinions about this form of using it... which is the same as asking 'plot over substance?' (which you would likely answer 'plot', if I got anything), or 'What sort of evil villain would you prefer?'.

If you absolutely need any form of comparison, I'd say that you should look for Zerodius' Rejected, but... well, that enough should drive you away.

If I were to make a topic about it, the topic would be made. It wasn't, so, it's not a topic about the game itself.

(Also, it's Gardevoir and Seijiro. Honestly, do I need to repeat that everytime?)

Shadowfaith: ...what the Hael? Too complex? Keep it simple? Is Final Fantasy a simple RPG? Dragon Quest?

I would apologize if it wasn't for the fact that I want to make something as high-level as one of these... and if it means less players, well, that's another 200.

And about the 'supposed RPG topic' - check above.

Shadowfaith
18th May 2006, 8:17 PM
Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest were for the Playstation/PS2, games in which you were able to play on game consoles. These types of things are way easier to maintain on consoles. You do not by 'RPG section' it means forum RPG's, not console RPG's right?

All I'm saying is you can make the plot as complex as you like with as many plot twists as you like, but like Renegade said:


I don't see how the way you suggested to develop characters could work, as it'd involve too much of a complicated set of variables, probably left for a game that's for a system like a PC/GC/PS2 or something.

Seijiro Mafuné
18th May 2006, 8:32 PM
...says who that this sort of game has no possibility of being adapted to a forum?

And, since it seems I need to be clearer... just because you get 5-8 possible 'Qualities' (for lack of a better word) and about 3 'Defects' (same situation...), that means it's too complicated for a person? Jeez, I didn't know people here had the brain capacity of a dried cauliflower!

Yami Ryu
18th May 2006, 8:41 PM
Jeez, I didn't know people here had the brain capacity of a dried cauliflower

O.o ok now that is the lamest insult I've ever seen. Outside of what I've been called at times.

Anywho, Seijo, I think you should check out a thing called 'Havok' for a better idea on a list of qualities and etc for what you're going for. but then again I don't want you too as you'd rip it off. As I think I know what you're going for. But since you don't know how to get their exactly, you leave out major points in your ideas.

Maybe you should give more thought into pro's and cons for characters. And etc, because what you have now really, is just a jumbled mishmash of basic info that's not gonna get you very far.

Seijiro Mafuné
18th May 2006, 8:43 PM
...if I post the game here, I'd like to make you eat your words, but since you will undoubtedly not allow me to, just stop miswriting my name on purpose.

RaZoR LeAf
18th May 2006, 9:35 PM
*eye twitches* Bad? You're telling me that complexity, one of the RPG trademarks (as well as involving plots with great twists, special scenarios, and developing characters) is BAD? Do you realize just how many people you just insulted?


Is Final Fantasy a simple RPG? Dragon Quest?

I would apologize if it wasn't for the fact that I want to make something as high-level as one of these

RPG games on consoles use programming and calculations to keep track of every detail from status, energy, health, status conditions, money, recipes, exp, important events and costumes. Unless you intend to keep track of all these details yourself, and make sure they are kept perfectly up to date for every single person to see, then you're over complicating things. You want to make an RPG exactly like a computer game, then you need to be ready for it.

I had a hard enough time working out a battle system for a Baiten Kaitos RPG, and it still doesn't make sense on paper the way it does in game. Not to mention needing to plan multiple events in advance, and then alter them depending on how those events are played out, working with the characters people to create to interweave their backgrounds and stories and keeping people entertained enough to make them stay.


In fact, I would be sorry to tell anybody else, but with an attitude like that, how can you call yourself a roleplayer?

Forum Role play is not the same as playing RPG computer games. Such a comparison could be Reckless driving is the same as playing racing games, or running around shooting people is the same as playing shooting games.


Bad roleplay leads to bad situations, and good roleplay leads to good situations, if you're lucky.

This is usually how people judge Experience and levelling up in an RPG, but adding qualities that help or hinder does complicate things, unless they were extremely well thought out and thoroughly explained. The latter most certainly isn't the case here.



Of course, the fact that this board doesn't really incentivates development isn't really attractive to me...

So, the question is: would you join such a complex game... or would you rather stay with the KISS games of everytime?


Perhaps on a forum where only one RPG is run at any time, you could work it, by having several people in charge and working together on the information. But for one person to do, on a board where lots of people run different RPGs, you're just setting yourself targets that are too high.



Jeez, I didn't know people here had the brain capacity of a dried cauliflower!

So, the question is: would you join such a complex game... or would you rather stay with the KISS games of everytime?

If you don't want criticism, don't ask for it.


...if I post the game here, I'd like to make you eat your words, but since you will undoubtedly not allow me to, just stop miswriting my name on purpose

Renegade does not mod RPG. She cannot stop you making one.

Seijiro Mafuné
18th May 2006, 10:45 PM
Since I don't want to repeat myself over and over and risk banning myself uselessly, that part of the argument should be discussed by PM if anybody cares... except for Renegade, since I can't send her messages. Now, for the last part...

I know she isn't a mod. But she won't join. Thus, it is the same as I said.

Shadowfaith
18th May 2006, 10:49 PM
Just because one person does not join doesn't mean that others will not. Pokemon RPG's are (of course) popular on the forums, and there would be no harm in giving your RPG a try if you think you can handle it. So by all means, give it a plot and try it out. If it works then good for you, but if it doesn't then you will know the method is not successful.

Zerodius
18th May 2006, 10:56 PM
I guess that, as the creator of a forum stats-based RPG that was quite popular (Chronicles of Darkness, I should add my point of view to it.

All users here have completely missed the point, in my opinion.

What is the difference between a forum RPG, a console one, and a paper one? The ONLY difference is the GM and the number of players. That's all.

What cause console and paper RPGs to be so successful? It is entirely up to the GM to do the calculations. The players just focus on coming up with strategies, decisions, and all that stuff.

THIS is why most stats-based forum RPGs fail ; the user is there to RP, not to do maths.

As such, whenever one use stats or not should be a NON-ISSUE. Make a set of rules that allow one to understand the value of the stats and then, make the stats natural ; the users should focus on character creation, development, using their imagination. If you can achieve that, the stats will actually enhance the game and give it a strategic depth that KISS games can never, ever hope of ever achieving.

Everything is in the execution.

Now that this is said... go ahead if you want... although I could say that more infos on the system as well as on the plot would have helped.

Now, have a nice day everyone.

Seijiro Mafuné
19th May 2006, 12:03 AM
To answer Shadowfaith: I know one player doesn't matter. But I'm just stating my opinion towards her joining, which I'm pretty sure won't happen.

Argent
19th May 2006, 1:07 AM
I think each RP has different purposes and designs and they have their own strengths and weaknesses. As was stated before, you can try this and see what develops, but personally I feel trying it this way is grating harshly against the grit of what forum RPs are capable of.

Each RP has their own strengths and weaknesses to fall back on.

A video game RP can have great storylines, beautiful battle mechanics, and dramatic scenes that stir your emotions. But the truth is that for a majority (some MMO's are quite different) follow a linear path of what the GM (in this case, Game Makers) want us to follow. We have no choice but to play within the limitations of the world they create; we simply are there to enjoy the ride.

Likewise, paper and pencil RPs are more interactive allowing for some input from the participants but taking away some of the precision of the storyline and battle mechanics. Sometimes a great scene which the GM wanted to erupt in grand climax becomes impossible because a piece of the story (a character or an item) may die or removed by the actions of the players. But this story also provides more input of the players to interact with the story and create what happens. Sometimes the drama that occurs far exceeds what the GM had in mind.

Finally, forum RPs provide the participants perhaps the most freedom of all the other RP forms. We are the character, and by seeing and interacting with the world around us, we create our world. With all respect to the GMs, we are just as, if not more, important in determining what happens in the story then the GMs are. The consequence of this is that freedom needs to be present. Granted the GM can determine limitations and prohibit actions which are too powerful or out of character, but we control how strong our attacks are, how much force we put in, how weak we are when receiving an attack. Denying players that freedom greatly prohibits the scope of what we are capable of playing. We are our own gauge of the characters we can and cannot create, and GMs have to trust us that when we fight our actions won't go beyond what is realistically feasible. Good RPers can naturally limit ourselves, give ourselves handicaps, and prevent ourselves from doing everything without flaw. And even though there are instances where GMs auto-KO some of our characters, they tend not to (unless they are God-Modding) determine this for every character.

So, to answer you question, can it work? Yes... but I don't think I would join it because it denies the spirit of what these Forum RPs truly are.

Seijiro Mafuné
19th May 2006, 1:34 AM
To Argent... I'm not grating against the grit.

You see, I don't see any difference between the freedom of RPGs. If you think about it, the only problem with console RPGs is the fact that THERE'S NO HUMAN ON THE OTHER SIDE. The plot had to be set in stone? Yes... but that's because there's no way for them to control it.

I mean, let me use an example you people will possibly disagree with: 'Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas'. I know it's more of an action game than anything... but you develop stats. The NPCs change their interactions with you depending on what you do. May not fit an average RPG view... but it has enough data to count.

Also, about the 'freedom' forum RPs give... mind giving me a good example *here* that doesn't involve the characters going in, I dunno, THE SAME QUEST?

Yami Ryu
19th May 2006, 1:40 AM
Also, about the 'freedom' forum RPs give... mind giving me a good example *here* that doesn't involve the characters going in, I dunno, THE SAME QUEST?

So just because other Role Play's on the forums don't take into account a very time consuming variable of data for NPC's and character developement, makes them un original? You know you're rp isn't speshul cause you put in a new type of data to take into account for role playing.

Sheesh and you claim I insulted people in my post. Way to go Seijo.

Seijiro Mafuné
19th May 2006, 1:44 AM
Stop. Calling. Me. Seijo. It's SEIJIRO!

And I'm not saying they're unoriginal. I asked if there was a good example of a freeform RP here.