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LaSamarox
11th June 2006, 10:17 PM
I don't know if anybody else has noticed, but under the Anime section in the main menu, in the Shiny Pokemon section, they neglect to show the shiny Butterfree that Ash's Butterfree falls in love with on the episode that Ash releases it. I'm not sure which episode it is, but I know it is in the Indigo series. Post here if you notice this as well.

Serebii
11th June 2006, 10:20 PM
I swear that Butterfree is the bane of my existence

It's not a Shiny Butterfree

http://www.serebii.net/Shiny/FRLG/012.png

Thats a shiny Butterfree

Completely different colour

Silver Ryu
11th June 2006, 10:20 PM
That Butterfree wasn't shiny. This (http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pkrssh214.gif) is what a shiny Butterfree looks like.

EDIT: Whoops, looks like Serebii beat me to it.

Fiery Blaziken
11th June 2006, 11:48 PM
Why don't put it up and put a note that it really wasn't a "real" shiney to stop these threads?

Locke Yggdrasill
12th June 2006, 12:44 AM
I bet you it was shiny, but they just used pink, because little chilluns would have been up all night, having nightmares about the vampire Butterfree. 8Đ
Yeah, I'm not really sure why this isn't closed yet. :<

ArrEmmDee
12th June 2006, 1:38 AM
A challenger!

http://www.greenchu.de/sprites/colosseum/sprites/rare/012.png http://www.greenchu.de/sprites/xd/rare/012.gif

The 3D series has a Butterfree that looks similar to the anime one. More to my point, it's a different color. Not to mention, some Pokémon changed their alt. color variation quite a bit between GSC and Third Generation, and some slightly changed tint (Gyarados) between RSE and FRLG.

Additionally, "Shiny" is just a fanterm for the more official "Alt. Color", is it not? It's hard to debate that the season one Butterfree isn't an alternate color from regular Butterfree. That might not automatically make it "Shiny", but I don't want to start a silly arguement, but it's worth more consideration than it's being given.

JONNO.FRESH
12th June 2006, 3:31 AM
How could it be shiny if shiny pokemon did not exist at that point?

Jon_Sly
12th June 2006, 3:37 AM
What about in Silver and Gold shiny butterfree? Also some lady in that game says she see's a pink butterfree. Never seen a shiny one in silver/gold though so not sure.

P_S_B
12th June 2006, 4:52 AM
What about in Silver and Gold shiny butterfree? Also some lady in that game says she see's a pink butterfree. Never seen a shiny one in silver/gold though so not sure.

Shiny butterfree in gold and silver are pink. My personal belief of the situation, is that Butterfree's alt. colour in G/S/C was designed around that Butterfree, in the hopes that it would avoid fans bringing up the Butterfree in the anime. It was originally drawn that way because pink is the colour of love, but when shinies came in, that butterfree was made shiny.

Erus Black Mage
12th June 2006, 5:33 AM
My guess while doing the episode g/s/c shiny forms were being made and I guess butterfree was going to be originally pink but I think they changed it to pink wings only for unkown reason

EDIT:OR they were gonna make a reference to stadium because in stadium, when you name a pokemon differenly, it will become different colored, so I guess they were making a reverence to stadium with the pink butterfree.

Serebii
12th June 2006, 9:26 AM
http://www.serebii.net/Shiny/Gold/012.gif

Shiny Butterfree in GSC

ArrEmmDee
12th June 2006, 12:18 PM
http://www.serebii.net/Shiny/Gold/012.gif

Shiny Butterfree in GSC

Sure if you don't have it in a GBColor. Otherwise;

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/2710/0120bq.png

I think it qualifies...?

Roy G. Biv
12th June 2006, 12:56 PM
yeah, I think I sent an e-mail to Joe a while back,

John Ray
17th June 2006, 12:30 PM
It must be a shiny.

Anime ones are different from game ones.

Serebii
17th June 2006, 2:17 PM
No, if you noticed in the section, all the pokemon listed are the same colours as the Shiny Pokemon in the games

It is NOT a shiny. THE END

Missingno. Master
17th June 2006, 2:28 PM
Explain the so-called "shiny" Shuckle with the purple shell, then. Shiny Shuckles have blue shells, as I ought to know.

Serebii
17th June 2006, 2:47 PM
http://www.serebii.net/Shiny/Gold/213.gif

It has been known for the colours to fluctuate inside the games...they're different in the 3D games for example but usually they aim at the colour in the handhelds

Skrusti
17th June 2006, 3:42 PM
It has been known for the colours to fluctuate inside the games...

And you just made yourself look like a moron :D

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/2710/0120bq.png

Shiny Butterfree from the G/S/C era as played on a GameBoy Colour. This picture was already posted in this thread. But according to YOU, the Pink Butterfree from the Anime isn't a shiny? Why not? The G/S/C era Shiny Butterfree is PINK, as seen above. Yet, it changed to the one seen in the R/S/E/FR/LG/C/XD era.

Pink Butterfree in the Anime = Shiny, Joe. The evidence is right in front of you for feck's sake. And even YOU provided evidence for it with your above sentence. Put it up on the god-damned page so people stop making topics about it and admit you were wrong.

Serebii
17th June 2006, 3:45 PM
The wrong parts are pink my friend. It's not shiny. Look

http://www.serebii.net/anime/pictures/intro/010/I29.jpg

Yes that Butterfree in the sprite has a Pink Glow to the Wings...but the one in the anime is NOT a Shiny Pokemon..

GSC Shiny Butterfree has Green eyes and a black body. Does this one?

You made yourself look like a moron...not me

Skrusti
17th June 2006, 3:53 PM
No, I haven't Joe. You are still making yourself look like a moron. See, shiny means alternate colouring on a Pokemon, since the OFFICIAL term for them are "Alternate Coloured Pokemon," not SHINY Pokemon. 'Shiny Pokemon' is a fan term.

Look at it this way Joe. A shiny pokemon is a pokemon that is differently coloured from the standard. If it is not what is classed as the colour for a 'shiny' pokemon (in the dex) it is is still shiny by the definition of the word, since it is coloured differently from a "Normal" Pokemon of that species. Hence why the Butterfree is PINK, and not the same colour as Ash's.

Oh, and in the GB Colour pic, it's not just the wings that have a pink glow :) The body is glowing a bit pink as well. AND, in that picture you posted, the Butterfree's wings are glowing pink as well. :D

I don't see WHY you don't just put it up on the shiny page, and make a note saying that YOU don't think it's shiny, but it is indeed an ALTERNATE COLOURED Pokemon, which is what a "Shiny" is. It would end these damned threads, and you still come out looking like you're 'right.' A win-win situation for you if I ever saw one ;/

Nintendo_6444
17th June 2006, 3:58 PM
I DON'T think the pink one is shiny. The pink one is a different color, like the purple kecleon. Okay?

Serebii
17th June 2006, 3:59 PM
No you don't get it. I only count the actual ones...the ones that PERFECTLY match the colours set in the game. Notice the Purple Kecleon isn't in there either...want me to put it in

The fact is, many of the Butterfree's colourings do not match the sprite...only the wings do

It is not one and that is that. Just because it is a different colour does not make it so

If it did then I should just go and put every damn Pokemon in the Orange Islands in it

/Exiled/
17th June 2006, 4:00 PM
is a picture of a pokemon really worth all this? My god just let it go....

Skrusti
17th June 2006, 4:13 PM
No, Joe, I understand perfectly. You don't want to admit you're wrong. You keep saying it isn't a "Shiny," when for all intents and purposes of the word, it IS a "Shiny" Butterfree. Same for the Purple Kecleon. It is a variant of the NORMAL VARIATY, ALTERNATLY COLOURED. The REAL term for Shiny Pokemon is "Alternate Coloured."

Normal Butterfree = Bluish-Purple Body, White/Black wings, Red eyes, and teal appendages.

Any other coloured Butterfree are "Alternatly Coloured" aka SHINY Butterfrees.

As for the purple Kecleon, if it isn't purple due to something that happened in the show during the episode, like being dyed, or if it didn't eat a god-damned BERRY like the Orange Island Pokemon did on Pinkan Island, then yes, it should be added to the "Shiny" Pokemon page.

And again, let me repeat. The Pinkan Island Pokemon were eating BERRIES to make them change colour.

If you're gonna make such a big deal about them not being 'shiny' (which at least the Pink Butterfree is), then add a damned "Alternate Coloured Pokemon" page or something.

Serebii
17th June 2006, 4:20 PM
No, you aren't getting it

That section is for the ones that MATCH the, if you want to be pedantic, Alternate Coloured Pokémon from the games

Not ones which are just a different bloody colour

Good Christ how many times do I have to say that

Skrusti
17th June 2006, 4:25 PM
Then put a bloody disclaimer on the page saying "This page is ONLY for Shiny Pokemon that match the ones in the games. So the Pink Butterfree and Purple Kecleon, and any future shinies shown in the Anime that don't match the games won't be posted here."

And everything will be fine :o

Torkoal Stu
17th June 2006, 4:29 PM
And again, let me repeat. The Pinkan Island Pokemon were eating BERRIES to make them change colour.
I believe Joe was also reffering to the Pokemon Ivy had that were more orangey/browny colours than normal.

Just thought i'd say that.

Serebii
17th June 2006, 4:39 PM
I believe Joe was also reffering to the Pokemon Ivy had that were more orangey/browny colours than normal.

Just thought i'd say that.
Indeed I was

I said all Pokemon in Orange Islands...not just the ones on Pinkin Island. Jeez

Skrusti
17th June 2006, 4:44 PM
I forgot about Ivy's Pokemon. S'been awhile since I've seen the Orange League. And yes, if they're differently coloured from the normal colours of the species, then they're "shiny."

Oh, and way to ignore my suggestion :D

Serebii
17th June 2006, 4:56 PM
No they aren't Shiny

The term shiny while not an official term is derived from the fact that the Pokémon, of those particular colours depending on each Pokémon, sparkle when they come into battle. Therefore the only shiny Pokémon are those of the colours within the game therefore I do not need to implement that suggestion

People use the term in regards to those Pokemon but not to Alternate Coloured Pokémon. If it was an Alternate Coloured Pokémon section then I would understand what you are getting at but it's not.

Zora
17th June 2006, 5:05 PM
If I recall correctly, was there not a Pink Butterfree in the background in one Orange League Episode.



Anyways, it could have been a prototype Shiny, it could have just some disease, ect. There are infinite solutions to this problem.

And should this not be in the Anime (Pokemon) Section?

Chris
17th June 2006, 5:10 PM
Joe, I'll take this.

You people are damned idiots. Seriously. The pink Butterfree came WAAAAAAAAAY before the games decided on alternate colored Pokemon. It's not included because it's not an official color and was introduced before the idea came around. The only reason for it being pink was for it to stand out from the rest of the Butterfree, which caused Satoshi's to fall for it.

Note how Kakureon is missing from the list. Know why? Not the official color used in the games later on.

Serebii
17th June 2006, 5:32 PM
I had already dealt with it Ed :p There was no need to call them idiots :p

MetalMario
17th June 2006, 9:09 PM
Here's the way I see it: the Pink Butterfree was made in the spirit of the shiny Pokémon concept. I'd expect that the lead creative developers (Satoshi Tajiri, Junichi Masuda, Ken Sugimori, etc.) had the idea of rare, alternately coloured Pokémon on their minds, and the Pink Butterfree was the first instantiation of that idea. In fact, I'd say that we have the Pink Butterfree to thank for the existence of shiny Pokémon in the games. The artists hadn't concretely decided on the colour scheme for an alternately coloured Butterfree at the time, aside from that it would be pink. The people behind Pokémon have been known to revise concepts like this. Don't expect an 100% fit. If you're going to argue that the Pink Butterfree wasn't a shiny, you should also argue that it was male, since it didn't have the black spots on its bottom wings.

Here are some reasons why the other "unusual" Pokémon weren't shiny:

Orange Island Pokémon: They weren't rare in their habitat. (Rareness is a general rule of thumb for judging whether or not something is a shiny.) Their different markings were explained as resulting from the tropical environment.

Pinkan Island Pokémon: They were turned pink by the Pinkan Berries. Note what I said about rareness.

Crystal Onix: There's actually a major plothole in that a shiny Onix isn't crystal in the games. It could be explained away in that the Onix grew inside that crystal cave and ate mostly the crystals within.

Purple Kecleon: The problem here is that Kecleons can normally change their colour. The only part of a Kecleon's body that doesn't change is its red zigzag. (conveniently the colour that does change in the game's shiny Kecleon) The Purple Kecleon probably just liked the colour purple and liked to stay it.

ArrEmmDee
17th June 2006, 9:39 PM
No they aren't Shiny

The term shiny while not an official term is derived from the fact that the Pokémon, of those particular colours depending on each Pokémon, sparkle when they come into battle.

I'm no anime expert, but Noctowl was the only shiny shown to be sent out into battle, and it did sparkle. Though, wasn't Gyarados sent out into battle by Lance, and it didn't sparkle? No, that Gyarados could technically not be a 'shiny' at all since it ended up being a regular Magikarp that just evolved into a red Gyarados-- it's alternate colored, but not shiny. Better take it off your list. :O!



Therefore the only shiny Pokémon are those of the colours within the game therefore I do not need to implement that suggestion

Too much color inconsistency sometimes, you know. Missingno. Master already pointed out why the Shuckle debatably doesn't belong on the list either by your standards.


People use the term in regards to those Pokemon but not to Alternate Coloured Pokémon. If it was an Alternate Coloured Pokémon section then I would understand what you are getting at but it's not.

Remove the Gyarados and the Shuckle, then :P

Serebii
17th June 2006, 9:49 PM
I'm no anime expert, but Noctowl was the only shiny shown to be sent out into battle, and it did sparkle. Though, wasn't Gyarados sent out into battle by Lance, and it didn't sparkle? No, that Gyarados could technically not be a 'shiny' at all since it ended up being a regular Magikarp that just evolved into a red Gyarados-- it's alternate colored, but not shiny. Better take it off your list. :O!




Too much color inconsistency sometimes, you know. Missingno. Master already pointed out why the Shuckle debatably doesn't belong on the list either by your standards.



Remove the Gyarados and the Shuckle, then :P
Shuckle does belong in the list as it matches the Shiny Shuckle of that time period. Red Gyarados blatently is based off the Shiny one in the games so it stays too

ArrEmmDee
17th June 2006, 10:06 PM
Shuckle does belong in the list as it matches the Shiny Shuckle of that time period.

Fair enough.


Red Gyarados blatently is based off the Shiny one in the games so it stays too

Oh but it's technically not a shiny, and since we're sitting here arguing about technicalities...

MetalMario brought up a very good point. How do we know Shiny Pokémon weren't being considered for the original games, but then dropped? It was only with GBC they could properly use the idea, and putting those games into a regular Game Boy, the only difference was the sparkle and the icon on their summary page. The sparkle that occured when sent into battle was simply so the Game Boy players could know-- oh, a shiny! Continued use is simply for the sake of a homage.

And the fact that all shiny Butterfree have a bit of pink to them in one way or another, realistically, isn't a coincidence, it too must be a homage or reference to some degree. Just as the Gyarados in the anime, though not shiny, is a homage. If it's up, at the very least Butterfree deserves a footnote.


.
My goodness you're stubborn in all the time you've sat here making it obvious you probably didn't realize shiny was an unofficial term until now you could've put up the page and we'd all be happy.

Zora
17th June 2006, 10:11 PM
Serebii, is there the slightiest chance it is a very early Shiny?

Just so we can understand your viewpoint better before the becamse a blasted debate (which it is heading that way).

And again, why is this not in the anime (Pokemon) section?

Token
17th June 2006, 10:20 PM
For all we know, that pink Butterfree cold have been from the Pinken Islands or whatever it is called.

Fiery Blaziken
17th June 2006, 10:27 PM
Look Joe, why don't you just put it there and add a note that says, "this is not an 'real' shiney", so we can just get everyone to shut up?

Yami Ryu
17th June 2006, 10:53 PM
For all we know, that pink Butterfree cold have been from the Pinken Islands or whatever it is called.

Yeah but it would have been entirely pink, right? And it probably would have stayed there with the other butterfree, why risk migrating over miles upon miles of ocean for some place, wasn't it, trainers released their butterfrees? I think that the pink Butterfree was an early shiny.

And Edward: :/ in the games, near Lake of Rage in GSC era, if I am not mistaken, someone mentions Pink Butterfree. So I think that kinda proves the one in the anime might have been shiny.

Chris
17th June 2006, 11:34 PM
Once again, EPISODE CAME BEFORE GOLD AND SILVER AND THE IDEA OF ALTERNATED COLORED POKEMON.

Fiery Blaziken
17th June 2006, 11:43 PM
Look Joe, why don't you just put it there and add a note that says, "this is not an 'real' shiney", so we can just get everyone to shut up?
And once again, my post was ignored. :/

Chris
18th June 2006, 12:03 AM
Defeats the purpose of a "shiny" page if you add those that aren't. Besides, it just ends up adding confusion. You can explain something as clearly as possible to some of the people here and the site, and they'll STILL get information wrong.

ArrEmmDee
18th June 2006, 1:42 AM
EPISODE CAME BEFORE ...THE IDEA OF ALTERNATED COLORED POKEMON.

You can't prove that stop shouting at us ^_^

Fiery Blaziken
18th June 2006, 3:32 AM
Defeats the purpose of a "shiny" page if you add those that aren't. Besides, it just ends up adding confusion. You can explain something as clearly as possible to some of the people here and the site, and they'll STILL get information wrong.
Well at least it would stop these kinds of threads popping up. :/

Yami Ryu
18th June 2006, 3:55 AM
And Edward: :/ in the games, near Lake of Rage in GSC era, if I am not mistaken, someone mentions Pink Butterfree. So I think that kinda proves the one in the anime might have been shiny.

I feel like my post was ignored << I could kick open silver right now if you wanted me too Edward, I think I know what trainer said it anyways. So I think that sorta means the butterfree was Shiny. :/ I mean just because there's no giant dragonites in the game doesn't mean that the butterfree wasn't shiny.


I'm no anime expert, but Noctowl was the only shiny shown to be sent out into battle, and it did sparkle. Though, wasn't Gyarados sent out into battle by Lance, and it didn't sparkle? No, that Gyarados could technically not be a 'shiny' at all since it ended up being a regular Magikarp that just evolved into a red Gyarados-- it's alternate colored, but not shiny. Better take it off your list. :O!

>_> maybe it was red cause it was mad then, if it's not a shiny...

Anyways I agree that the pink butterfree might have been a first attempt at shiny pokemon. Anyone ever remember the first episode of pokemon? And the golden bird? That turned out to be Ho-Oh? Yet the anime was made well before GSC was even rumored to be coming out, right?

That differently colored butterfree could have been the people edging forward with something else new to the games. Sort of, oooh lets give the people another 'new' taste of pokemon! Chance of something different! Only, oh wait, this can't happen in the games already out.

Hmm.

:/ and GSC shinies were born? I still poke at the trainer in GSC games that comments about a pink butterfree/a butterfree being pink.

Edit: Oh I know, we need a politically correct thing for this. It's not Shiny anymore since shiny means it needs to sparkle. Which now a days could be from the pokeball, as the animations on some give sparkles. Shinies, now need to be called Alternate Colored Pokemon. Or Pokemon that take one hell of a long time to find and you usually end up with the ones you don't want. Like Linoone.

Agustus
18th June 2006, 4:43 AM
http://www.serebii.net/anime/pictures/intro/010/I29.jpg

Listen, shiny Pokemon didn't even exist during that time period in the show, hence, the Pink Butterfree was a symbolization of love, or something else, possibly Peter Pan or Madam Joe's Fish n' Chips. Okay? Okay.

Edit: Listen to Elric, okay?

Erus Black Mage
18th June 2006, 4:50 AM
If shinies offical name is "Alternate Colored Pokemon" then I guess they really first appeared in stadium, because when you nickname a pokemon and send it to stadium, it color may change!

[sarcasm]

I really think it was just to make it look different from the other butterfree,

Chris
18th June 2006, 5:00 AM
You can't prove that stop shouting at us ^_^
Oh I can't, hm?

Bye Bye, Butterfree
Japanese Air Date: August 19th, 1997

Pokemon Gold/Silver
Japan Release Date: November 21st, 1999

Two years BEFORE the entire concept was ever brought up.

Besides, if it was the official color, they'd have used it. However, it's NOT being used. Let us not forget that they could have easily simply made the Butterfree's outline black and the body color pink for the Gameboy Color sprites. However, they did not.

Zora
18th June 2006, 5:42 AM
Oh I can't, hm?

Bye Bye, Butterfree
Japanese Air Date: August 19th, 1997

Pokemon Gold/Silver
Japan Release Date: November 21st, 1999

Two years BEFORE the entire concept was ever brought up.

Besides, if it was the official color, they'd have used it. However, it's NOT being used. Let us not forget that they could have easily simply made the Butterfree's outline black and the body color pink for the Gameboy Color sprites. However, they did not.

Error Alert
Error Alert
Missing Information

(Just had to do that)

Ed, you forgot one very important thing: When the idea of GS was brought up. DP have been announced almost 2 years (by the time of Japanesse Release Date, yes), so the idea of Shinies could have been brought before that.


And once again:
Why is this not in the anime section?

Phantom_Bugsy
18th June 2006, 5:56 AM
The Pink Butterfree was pink so that you could very obviously see it was female.

The end.

Yami Ryu
18th June 2006, 6:06 AM
The Pink Butterfree was pink so that you could very obviously see it was female.

The end.

Even with how wimpy it was acting? :/ I could tell it was female or atleast 'girly' with the whole damsel in distress routine.



Bye Bye, Butterfree
Japanese Air Date: August 19th, 1997

Pokemon Gold/Silver
Japan Release Date: November 21st, 1999

Two years BEFORE the entire concept was ever brought up.

:/ ok I feel really ignored here. First anime episode. ASH. GOLDEN BIRD.

Gooooold.

It was Ho-Oh, most definately. But is Ho Oh gold? no. Is Ho Oh gold shiny? No. What was it?

Prototype?

Oooh.

Maybe this pink Butterfree was a Prototype too? Hmm?

Just because it came out before GSC was said it was going to be realesed, doesn't mean it wasn't shiny. Ever think GSC was being plotted out right after RBGY? It was just they needed new pkmn/regions/colors etc. And more stuff to make people want it. And since the anime is suposedly loosely based off the games...

<.<

Edit: Also, games aren't usually announced right away. There has to be some time to be hushhush over it to keep it secret incase it flops or bottoms out, which would be embaressing announcing a new game, and well, it dies halfway through development. So who knows Ed. GSC really could have been in progress day one after Pkmn yellow :/ so time lines like that really could be a moot point.

Torkoal Stu
18th June 2006, 6:58 AM
He's got a point, Ho-Oh came out in G/S/C but that was over two years before the game was released.

But I say remove the section completely and then everyone will stop arguing over that damned Butterfree.

D:!

Chris
18th June 2006, 7:53 AM
Once again, we also forget that Satoshi Tajiri had WAY more designs for Pokemon before anything else was fully put into play. The main reason they also used Houou was to give off the effect that there's actually more Pokemon that are undiscovered.

The Benmeister
18th June 2006, 10:09 AM
People, alternate colour =/= a shiny.

If that was the case, you could throw a bucket of blue paint over a Pikachu and call it a shiny.

Shiney_Hunter_Tauros_Rule
18th June 2006, 11:39 AM
Then if you wont add the pink butterfree then you must take the Noctowl out.
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:n4fzgX4dQD9RBM:www.serebii.net/Toolbar/pokemon compared to
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:q3l7Nma1IYOUeM:img35.imageshack.us/img35/7580/shinynoctowl0ta.gif

Ash's noctowl isnt the exact same as the shiny noctowl of either period.
This is in conjunction with your "The pink bits arent in the same place" arguement.
As much as I love Noctowl, If butterfree shouldnt be there neither should Noctowl

Serebii
18th June 2006, 11:46 AM
Noctowl IS a Shining Pokémon. For one thing you gave the RS Sprite which doesnt match the sprite of the time and the colours do match, the wing just isnt as Red as Ash's

http://www.serebii.net/Shiny/Gold/164.gif

They Match, not the precise colour as the anime due to the difference from the 256 colour Palette ont he GBC to a tv show

The fact is, Butterfree is not the same colour...at all. Only thing thats right is the wings...the body, feet, hands, eyes etc. are all wrong

ArrEmmDee
18th June 2006, 2:29 PM
Oh I can't, hm?

Bye Bye, Butterfree
Japanese Air Date: August 19th, 1997

Pokemon Gold/Silver
Japan Release Date: November 21st, 1999

Two years BEFORE the entire concept was ever brought up.

If you're going to try to make me feel like an idiot, at least read what I'm saying correctly. My point was, how do we know that Satoshi and friends didn't already have the idea for Shiny Pokémon back in RBY, but since it had no colours, it would have been pointless at the time.


Besides, if it was the official color, they'd have used it. However, it's NOT being used. Let us not forget that they could have easily simply made the Butterfree's outline black and the body color pink for the Gameboy Color sprites. However, they did not.

Maybe they changed their idea-- they seem to do it between handhelds, consoles, and generations, why not from anime to game?


People, alternate colour =/= a shiny.

If that was the case, you could throw a bucket of blue paint over a Pikachu and call it a shiny.

No. Alternate colored is what is referred to as shiny. However, the Pokémon would be 'born' alternate colored/shiny (I'm going to use them interchangably since I'm currently not arguing with Serebii over nonsensical word semantics), which is why the Pinkan Pokémon don't count, neither does the anime Gyarados, and I suppose neither do the 'orange' Orange Islands Pokémon if they weren't born in the alternate color scheme.

Zora
18th June 2006, 4:18 PM
Once again, we also forget that Satoshi Tajiri had WAY more designs for Pokemon before anything else was fully put into play. The main reason they also used Houou was to give off the effect that there's actually more Pokemon that are undiscovered.

So you are saying that he had designs for a shining Butterfree before it was put into play.

What he was saying is that things have been known to change. This could be another thing that changed. The shining butterfree had some pink, compared to its older anime version, and Ho-oh has some gold, as compared to its older anime version. Very interchanagable.

hobohunter
18th June 2006, 4:45 PM
Ok I agree with Joe and Ed but I think you people should just close this thread and stop trying to pick a fight



Look Joe, why don't you just put it there and add a note that says, "this is not an 'real' shiney", so we can just get everyone to shut up?

Joe did put a note up about it. it was the day after he put up the shiney page up in the little corner on the front page where it usually says busy busy or sorry or something else (no offense Joe) so just stop this thread now

Thriller
18th June 2006, 4:50 PM
Serebii, you got all these GSC shiny sprites but they aren't on the old Pokedex.

I really want something like that. To see how the shinies look back in the day.

~*Pikafan*~
18th June 2006, 5:26 PM
(Jeez, all this over 1 recolored pokemon)
Like someone had said a while ago, they made the butterfree so it could be pointed out out of all of the others. That's it, ok? Who really cares if it's on some page or not? IT WAS MADE TO BE POINTED OUT SO ASH'S BUTTERFREE COULD FALL IN LOVE WITH IT. END OF THIS STUPID STORY.

We're all getting mad at each other over 1 stinkin' recolor.

Now I wish I never saw that episode 3-4 years ago.


Wait, hold on, I remember someone saying something about a purple kecleon. Once, I was watching a clip on youtube, called Catch Me If You Can! It showed a YELLOW kecleon. The original Kecleon from the one of those little episode clips (I think it was Pichu & Pichu). It probably just changed color because it can.

Silver Ryu
18th June 2006, 5:28 PM
Why is this thread still open? 0_o

Chris
20th June 2006, 1:44 AM
Then if you wont add the pink butterfree then you must take the Noctowl out.
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:n4fzgX4dQD9RBM:www.serebii.net/Toolbar/pokemon compared to
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:q3l7Nma1IYOUeM:img35.imageshack.us/img35/7580/shinynoctowl0ta.gif

Ash's noctowl isnt the exact same as the shiny noctowl of either period.
This is in conjunction with your "The pink bits arent in the same place" arguement.
As much as I love Noctowl, If butterfree shouldnt be there neither should Noctowl
Japanese Episode 156: "Different-colored Yorunozuku! I Got One!!"
English Episode 154: "Fowl Play"

See the Japanese title? Different-colored is the official term used for "shiny" Pokemon in Japan. We've seen all the proof that the Butterfree colors are NOT the same. Same going for Kakureon. Both colors appear BEFORE official alternate colors, therefor not making them said colors. Yorunozuku is in there because it DOES pop out with the sparkling effect and is the appropriate color used in the games.

Remember, the games come before the anime. The games are what fuel the anime. The anime and games are completely not canon with eachother. This is simple logic.


Why is this thread still open? 0_o
Why did you just make a spam post?

SuperShadow
20th June 2006, 2:56 AM
Oh I can't, hm?

Bye Bye, Butterfree
Japanese Air Date: August 19th, 1997

Pokemon Gold/Silver
Japan Release Date: November 21st, 1999

Two years BEFORE the entire concept was ever brought up.

Besides, if it was the official color, they'd have used it. However, it's NOT being used. Let us not forget that they could have easily simply made the Butterfree's outline black and the body color pink for the Gameboy Color sprites. However, they did not.

Although I do agree it ain't a shiny pokemon, they would have already brought the concept up seeing how they would have to make it before the release date was reavealed. So your argument does have plenty of flaws I do agree that butterfree was pink so you could see it better and as some one said before it resemples love in a sense.

Shiney_Hunter_Tauros_Rule
24th June 2006, 3:34 PM
Noctowl IS a Shining Pokémon. For one thing you gave the RS Sprite which doesnt match the sprite of the time and the colours do match, the wing just isnt as Red as Ash's

http://www.serebii.net/Shiny/Gold/164.gif

They Match, not the precise colour as the anime due to the difference from the 256 colour Palette ont he GBC to a tv show

The fact is, Butterfree is not the same colour...at all. Only thing thats right is the wings...the body, feet, hands, eyes etc. are all wrong
Youve just proved yourself wrong. You said that you werent putting up Butterfree because it wasnt the "excact" same as the game one, yet you have just contradicted yourself. It isnt the "excact" same colour noctowl.

Serebii
24th June 2006, 3:39 PM
Umm...no

The palette on the GBC just makes that Noctowl not as vivid colour wise as the Anime does it. However Butterfree does not match any colour except for the wings.

Ivyon
24th June 2006, 3:49 PM
Youve just proved yourself wrong. You said that you werent putting up Butterfree because it wasnt the "excact" same as the game one, yet you have just contradicted yourself. It isnt the "excact" same colour noctowl.
Yes but the colors are similar, and in the right places.
The only thing the pink butterfree has that is similar to the actual shiny butterfree is the pinkish wings, other than that, they are completely different.
Now take a look at the two
http://www.serebiiforums.com/images/avatars/anime/PinkButterfree.pnghttp://www.greenchu.de/sprites/xd/rare/012.gif
I'm not quite sure about this, but shiny butterfree's body seems purple to me, its eyes seem to look green, and its hands, feet, and mouth are pink.
The pink butterfree's body is pink, not purple. Its eyes are red, not green. And its hands, feet, and mouth are blue, not pink.

Therefore, its painfully obvious its not a shiny. Other than the wings, only one of the colors match and its in two completely different places (just because butterfree shares it pink body color with shiny butterfree's hands, feet, and mouth doesn't mean its shiny)

EDIT: Looks like Serebii beat me, thats the last time I take the time to write a good post j/k

Ivyon;358;

SuperShadow
24th June 2006, 4:03 PM
Japanese Episode 156: "Different-colored Yorunozuku! I Got One!!"
English Episode 154: "Fowl Play"

See the Japanese title? Different-colored is the official term used for "shiny" Pokemon in Japan. We've seen all the proof that the Butterfree colors are NOT the same. Same going for Kakureon. Both colors appear BEFORE official alternate colors, therefor not making them said colors. Yorunozuku is in there because it DOES pop out with the sparkling effect and is the appropriate color used in the games.

Remember, the games come before the anime. The games are what fuel the anime. The anime and games are completely not canon with eachother. This is simple logic.


Why did you just make a spam post?


You realize that saying that proves you wrong seeing how the Butterfree is a different color!!

Shiney_Hunter_Tauros_Rule
24th June 2006, 4:46 PM
But the shiny butterfree was like that in the GSC era.
If this doesnt count neither should the Shuckle or Noctowl

Shadow_Lugia_Master
24th June 2006, 8:06 PM
I swear that Butterfree is the bane of my existence

It's not a Shiny Butterfree

http://www.serebii.net/Shiny/FRLG/012.png

Thats a shiny Butterfree

Completely different colour

Well, on my silver version, some lass trainer said she saw a pink butterfree.......and the lass was at the lake of rage! There wasn't even one normal butterfree in sight, so it's impossible to get a shiny one.

Serebii
24th June 2006, 8:16 PM
Shiny Butterfree has never been in any way close to the Pink Butterfree

Shuckle & Noctowl...especially Noctowl do. They just do not look as vivid due to the limited palette on the GameBoy Color

Jesus H Christ

vzilberman
24th June 2006, 8:58 PM
I still don't get then, why in silver the trainer says about the pink buterfree. Why would the game producers or whoever, just randomly put that in? It is a shiny of another type.

LaSamarox
25th June 2006, 4:33 AM
I agree with Ed. The term shiny means alternately colored. And the pink Butterfree is ALTERNATELY COLORED. Joe, for the love of God, either put the Butterfree up there or close this thread to end the damned arguement and your glaring stupidity on the matter(sorry).

Chris
25th June 2006, 4:48 AM
I agree with Ed. The term shiny means alternately colored. And the pink Butterfree is ALTERNATELY COLORED. Joe, for the love of God, either put the Butterfree up there or close this thread to end the damned arguement and your glaring stupidity on the matter(sorry).
Good job missing my point.

Alternately Colored Pokemon are those that are colored differently and SHARE THE SAME COLORS AS THOSE IN THE GAMES. Otherwise, Pink Butterfree would have been the official color.

God damn. I've already said this. This was BEFORE they introduce the concept in the games and anime. The colors are NOT the same. Same reason Kakureon isn't on the list. The official alternate color wasn't purple.


I still don't get then, why in silver the trainer says about the pink buterfree. Why would the game producers or whoever, just randomly put that in? It is a shiny of another type.
Because of the limited color pallet, it's easy to mistaken it as being pink. That and why do you think the writers replaced "blacking out" to "whiting out?" They have as much access to the text data as they have to the rest of the game. They can change and rewrite whatever's necessary.

Serebii
25th June 2006, 10:10 AM
Yes, Shiny does mean Alternate Coloured, but Alternate Coloured does not mean Shiny

That page is for those that match the in game Shiny Pokémon (Which Shuckle and Noctowl do btw) whereas Purple Kecleon and Pink Butterfree and Orange Ilsand Pokémon do not count

~*Pikafan*~
25th June 2006, 1:07 PM
How about we just close this thread?

I just have 1 question for you, Joe.

You're saying it's not shiny because it's not like the GSC Butterfree? If you are, then I ask you: Why don't you take away all pokemon there that aren't shiny? I read that someone read about a different colored Shuckle, and you said that was shiny. I don't get it. So why don't you take that away, too, if you won't add the butterfree?

Serebii
25th June 2006, 1:11 PM
Because the shuckle matches the colours of the GSC Shiny Shuckle. I have already bloody explained that like 5 times. The section only has Shiny Pokémon AND THAT IS THAT.

LaSamarox
25th June 2006, 9:20 PM
Just close the goddamned thread already Joe. If this thread has somehow made your life miserable then for the love of God, close it!!!

LaSamarox
25th June 2006, 9:20 PM
Just close the goddamned thread already Joe. If this thread has somehow made your life miserable then for the love of God, close it!!!

Shiney_Hunter_Tauros_Rule
25th June 2006, 9:29 PM
Except Butterfree should atleast get a mention because it IS the same colour.
Just put it in Joe and say it isnt OFFICIALLY a shiny pokemon but is considered one.

Serebii
25th June 2006, 9:48 PM
IT IS NOT THE SAME COLOUR

Shiny Butterfree - Pink Butterfree
Black Body - Pink Body
Green Eyes - Red Eyes
Pink Feet - Blue Feet
Pink Hands - Blue hands
Pink Mouth - Blue Mouth
Pink Wings - Pink Wings

The only damned thing similar is the damned Pink Wings. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME COLOUR. GET OVER IT

Thriller
25th June 2006, 10:04 PM
This is getting as ridiculous as the "Ash and Red are the same" debate.

To all those saying the Pink Butterfree was a shiny, you are wrong. Like many others have said.

And I'd say the Shiny Butterfree's body is purple rather than black.

Serebii
25th June 2006, 10:19 PM
This is getting as ridiculous as the "Ash and Red are the same" debate.

To all those saying the Pink Butterfree was a shiny, you are wrong. Like many others have said.

And I'd say the Shiny Butterfree's body is purple rather than black.
The GSC SPrite has it as Black

Koubagia
25th June 2006, 10:27 PM
FOR GOD'S SAKE PEOPLE! Everyone's gone insane, and I mean everyone, including Joe and Ed. It's a damned Butterfree. I know I have no authority to settle this, but what the Hell. I'm not going to take any side in this argument, because it's a silly thing that no-one on Earth actually cares about. Is it worth all this damned fuss? No. Members, it's Serebii's site, and at the end of the day it's his decision. Staff, it would help if you were a little less facist dictator and a little more sensitive. This isn't really about the Butterfree any more, it's about people wanting a chance to shout at the big 'bii. Why the Hell do you want to? If you start getting agressive, then you can only assume everyone else will as well. If you think Joe's a tough leader, then that's probably because the members are tough with him. I'm not just taking his side, either. Sometimes the best way to calm everyone else down is to calm down yourself, and Joe doesn't often do that. As for this debate, the best way to resolve this would be for everyone to just calm down and perhaps Joe should look at the perfectly acceptable compromises that have been posted. At the end of the day, who cares?

The Benmeister
25th June 2006, 10:30 PM
^Rather contradictory, in a way.

All I can say is, if people want the Butterfree to be acknowledged as a shiny, make your own damn website with your own damn shiny page.

Serebii
25th June 2006, 10:31 PM
No, I'm not being tough, I'm stating facts. That section is for Shiny Pokemon, i.e. Pokemon that match the colours of shiny Pokemon on the time period when they aired

If I was to comprimise, then I may aswell put Missingno, Yoshi, Nidogod etc. in the Pokédex because some people refuse to believe that they are not Pokémon

Savage X
25th June 2006, 11:26 PM
Holy crap! This is a fight in and a half! I want to put my two sense into it; that Butterfree was not shiny because as Edward Elric said "The pink Butterfree came WAAAAAAAAAY before the games decided on alternate colored Pokemon. It's not included because it's not an official color and was introduced before the idea came around. The only reason for it being pink was for it to stand out from the rest of the Butterfree, which caused Satoshi's to fall for it." is 100% true, therefore there is no way it was meant to be shiny How could you argue with that? There is nothing to argue with...there wasn't even a such thing as shinys then. So it's obviously not shiny...

And maybe when they did make shinys they based it off their already pink Butterfree in the anime.

Greatone
26th June 2006, 12:28 AM
I think that the point of the Shiny Pokemon Section is to show how "Alternate coloured" pokemon in the anime relate to the games. If it's not the same colour, or similar, it doesn't belong.

shinyrayquaza
26th June 2006, 1:13 AM
Oh but it's technically not a shiny, and since we're sitting here arguing about technicalities.

I have to agree with that one. In the game, Gyarados was a freebie to introduce you into alternate colored pokes. it was changed unnaturally, as were the Pinkan island pokes. right now, im kinda tilting between Joe and skrusti. There was a good point made. maybe the pink Butterfree was put on the show as an in show spoiler of seasons to come, just like Ho-oh, Blaziken in the johto cup, Brock's bonsly, May's Munchlax, The Keckleons, and countless others. however, until that question can be answered, this debate is pretty pointless.

ArrEmmDee
26th June 2006, 2:02 AM
"Yes, Shiny does mean Alternate Coloured, but Alternate Coloured does not mean Shiny"





Yes. It does.
Go load any game and see "Alt. Colored" is found in the phrase menus, where "Shiny" does not. The only case in which Alt. Colored doesn't mean shiny if they weren't born as an Alt. Colored, because that's an artificial color change. I don't think it's possible to argue with this at all, and this is essentially what we've been telling you for... five and a half pages?

Geez, you guys keep on trucking. :O



(Notice the sudden death of this thread...?)

DarkSpectrum
28th June 2006, 4:05 PM
I remember that episode.... and ya know... I always thought of ash's butterfree as being a male......
Does it not make sense that they made the otherone pink to make it seem like a female?

Shiney_Hunter_Tauros_Rule
28th June 2006, 8:07 PM
No, I'm not being tough, I'm stating facts. That section is for Shiny Pokemon, i.e. Pokemon that match the colours of shiny Pokemon on the time period when they aired

If I was to comprimise, then I may aswell put Missingno, Yoshi, Nidogod etc. in the Pokédex because some people refuse to believe that they are not Pokémon
Well technically Missingno SHOULD be in the pokedex just to explain what it does.

Koubagia
28th June 2006, 8:45 PM
No, I'm not being tough, I'm stating facts. That section is for Shiny Pokemon, i.e. Pokemon that match the colours of shiny Pokemon on the time period when they aired

If I was to comprimise, then I may aswell put Missingno, Yoshi, Nidogod etc. in the Pokédex because some people refuse to believe that they are not Pokémon
I didn't just mean you're tough here, a lot of people think you're generally a tough webmaster (I'm not one of them, I too am just stating facts).

Also, a compromise doesn't neccesarily mean doing what they want you to do. A fair compromise in the example you gave would be creating a page on them stating why you don't believe they're real Pokémon.

The compromise I meant about this case would be putting a note on the main page of the shiny section stating why you don't believe that the Pink Butterfree is a shiny.

killerjaw01
28th June 2006, 9:53 PM
This may sound silly but maybe the Butterfree was pink in the anime because it came from the place with those strange berries. (They turned the Rhyhorns pink and Pikachu started turning pink when it ate some, none of them are shiny).

Chris
28th June 2006, 11:40 PM
"Yes, Shiny does mean Alternate Coloured, but Alternate Coloured does not mean Shiny"





Yes. It does.
Go load any game and see "Alt. Colored" is found in the phrase menus, where "Shiny" does not. The only case in which Alt. Colored doesn't mean shiny if they weren't born as an Alt. Colored, because that's an artificial color change. I don't think it's possible to argue with this at all, and this is essentially what we've been telling you for... five and a half pages?

Geez, you guys keep on trucking. :O



(Notice the sudden death of this thread...?)
Thank you for basically repeating something I mentioned pages ago. "Shiny" is a fan term. We've already said this.


This may sound silly but maybe the Butterfree was pink in the anime because it came from the place with those strange berries. (They turned the Rhyhorns pink and Pikachu started turning pink when it ate some, none of them are shiny).
It is silly because that episode was produced a YEAR or so before the Orange Islands were even thought up.

And let me say this now. Anyone who simply posts saying "CLOSE IT" will automatically receive a warning. YOU ARE NOT MODS NOR DO YOU HAVE ANY SAY WHETHER SOMETHING IS TO BE CLOSED OR NOT. We will decide when this thread is to be closed. Not you. Continuing to do so after being warned will result in a one week ban.

LaSamarox
29th June 2006, 5:35 AM
Okay, apparently this thread has gotten out of everyone's control, so I give up. I'll join the arguement.





If I was to comprimise, then I may aswell put Missingno, Yoshi, Nidogod etc. in the Pokédex because some people refuse to believe that they are not Pokémon

Missingno. aside, whoever believes that those are Pokemon are on some serious crack.


This may sound silly but maybe the Butterfree was pink in the anime because it came from the place with those strange berries. (They turned the Rhyhorns pink and Pikachu started turning pink when it ate some, none of them are shiny).

If that was so, it would have travelled with a swarm of the same colored Butterfree.




I believe that the pink Butterfree was designed as a forerunner for the shiny pokemon of GSC. The Pokemon team were working on GSC when they first aired the show, because a game that good takes years to create. You can't rush perfection, holmes.

Wyndigo
29th June 2006, 6:20 AM
I just want to say for the people that keep bringing this up. The trainers who refer to Butterfree as pink are refering to it's wing colour.

When you see a black-bodied butterfly with blue wings, do you say, "I saw a black butterfly?" No, if you're sane you'll say you saw a blue butterfly.

As for Pink Butterfree being a shiney... I really don't care that much.

MegaJunior
29th June 2006, 9:42 AM
OMG this makes me sick. I think the pink Butterfree IS a shiny because it has a different color than common Butterfree. I have a shiny Butterfree on Firered and I know pink Butterfree does not exist in games, so I think it isn't official, but the anime is WAY different from the games. So there must be shiny's in the anime with different colors than a ''regular'' shiny too. It doesn't belong in the pokedex tough, because they are based on the games.

About Missingo, for gods sake, It Is Not A Pokemon... It doesn't even has a pokedex number and should be considered as a glitch.

MegaJunior

Chris
29th June 2006, 10:20 AM
MegaJunior, you're not allowed to speak. Why? Because everything you're saying is absolutely false.

Pink Butterfree came out BEFORE anything alternate colored was revealed. It was simply to make it stand out and show it was female. Nothing more. There have been no "different colored shinies" for Pokemon that have official colors already. They use the official color or make their own for Pokemon who don't have one yet (Purple Kakureon).

Second, MissingNo. isn't a glitch. It's in EVERY game because it's used as a way to setup testing for Pokemon and battles. Making it appear is a glitch. Because the game doesn't know which Pokemon to pull up, it has to pull up something, thus MissingNo. appears. It's not a Pokemon, but it's also not a glitch.

MegaJunior
29th June 2006, 11:29 AM
You're right about the Missingno, sorry.
But about the pink Butterfree is really what I think. Just like the Kecleon, it is a ''anime-shiny'', whitch can be different from the games.

Chris
29th June 2006, 2:57 PM
That's because the purple Kakureon was introduced BEFORE they even decided on an official color for it. :| Having two Kakureon of the same color would have been dull. There was nothing about it that indicated it as being a "shiny," either way.

SneazzL.com
30th June 2006, 12:58 PM
ITS NOT A SHINY because lol shiny's didnt exicst at that point of the anime

ArrEmmDee
30th June 2006, 4:51 PM
Thank you for basically repeating something I mentioned pages ago. "Shiny" is a fan term. We've already said this.

Obviously I have to reinforce it if Serebii just said the opposite of something we've been saying for the past several pages. :(


They use the official color or make their own for Pokemon who don't have one yet (Purple Kakureon).

Except it's a color changing chameleon, so it's probably green like any other Kekleon.



Ok.
Was the Butterfree an alternate color of what it usually is? Yes.
Is there any reason to believe this was an artificial coloration due to diet, environment, or in other words, not born as an alternate colored Pokémon? No.




If that doesn't make it a shiny I don't know what does.





Also. At the worst it's called retconning, and the fact Shiny Butterfree appears in the latest intro has them showing in Alternate Color in an age of their official existance, and anyone who never watched the originals eason would assume, yep, it's a shiny. And they assume correctly. If it didn't appear in the intro, that might serve to say they messed up on it and want it to go away, but I guess not!

Serebii
30th June 2006, 5:05 PM
You miss the point again...

Shiny is a designation for the Pokemon of that particular colours in the game. If they don't match...they aren't in

THE END