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Zora
22nd July 2006, 6:34 AM
Mods, if feel that this should be closed, do so.

Okay, this has been bothering me ever since this Johto trio has been released. Everyone thinks and treats them as starters. Here is a problem though, they have never been starters in this generation. They were presented as Johto Pokemon in both Emerald, XD, and PC. Here is the truth:

They are not actually starters in this generation.

If he haven't been so noticable, you should have seen that Emerald, FireRed, and LeafGreen have all Johto Pokemon avalible, minus legendaries. This proves the theory (err... fact) that Nintendo made it so you could get all Johto Pokemon (minus legendaries, and forever more when I say that) in the GBA packs. They did this so people would have access to most Pokemon. Plus if went to the events, you could get Ho-oh, Lugia, and Celebi from the packs.

If anyone ever read the PC game box it said "Get Pokemon never seen in before seen out of Johto..." This does include this trio. Keep in mind that Umbreon and Espeon were your starters, and eevee was in your second game (see something?). Also, XD feature most PC Pokemon in there first form. Think about it:

Ledyba
Houndour
Johto Trio
Lavitar (never said via shadow)
and more.

Therefore, I hope my rant made its loud point on how they were never present as starters, but as Johto Pokemon.[/rant]

The Thunderbird
22nd July 2006, 7:20 AM
They were the Pokemon you start out with in the 2nd gen.

summnor1201
22nd July 2006, 7:28 AM
Everyone calls them Jhoto Starters Cause thats what they are

Zora
22nd July 2006, 4:37 PM
They were the Pokemon you start out with in the 2nd gen.

This is 3rd generation. That is why I said "In this generation..."



Everyone calls them Jhoto Starters Cause thats what they are

THey were only in the 2nd generation. It is like a title they have though. However people think like next generation they will give us a old/new starter trio after doing something, because emerald did it. Emerald did not do it so you can have another starter intially, but so you could get all Johto Pokemon from game packs assuming you owned both Kanto games and emerald. In FrLg, they made you choose one of the legendary dogs indirectly, in Emerald it was on of this trio. My point was they were never presented as starters in this generation, but as Johto Pokemon. People are thinking this is going to be a new trend, but it will not. Like people thought the Kanto trio was going to be in XD because the Johto ones were. That was wrong, since XD helped by giving many Pokemon only avalible in FrLgRS to Emerald. They only lacked Slowpoke line IIRC, everything else was there. People need to understand why Emerald did this, and it is not because of the fact they wanted two starter trios.

Watermaniac
22nd July 2006, 4:59 PM
Man, i think that you're maybe analyzing this a little too much. They are told the johto startes because indeed they were the options to start in GSC, so you have to get over it

Moonlight.
22nd July 2006, 6:04 PM
They are Johto starters in the sense that they're the starters of Johto, but they were never starters in the third gen. No-one ever said they were starters this gen.

greta_lover
22nd July 2006, 6:20 PM
Shouldn't this go in the 2nd generation forum?

IrkenAdolescent
22nd July 2006, 6:22 PM
Just because you don't "start" with them doesn't mean they can't be called starters. As you said youself in your second post, it's a title they have been given. Your rant won't change the fact that they will always be called starters.

Wert_the_Wolf
22nd July 2006, 6:28 PM
I really need to stop reading other people's rants...<.<

Zora
22nd July 2006, 7:14 PM
Shouldn't this go in the 2nd generation forum?

Why? I am ranting mainly about PC, Emerald, and XD, all of which are in the 3rd generation. In the 2nd generation they were presented as starters, in this generation they are presented as Johto Pokemon.


Just because you don't "start" with them doesn't mean they can't be called starters. As you said youself in your second post, it's a title they have been given. Your rant won't change the fact that they will always be called starters.

Okay, this is what I mean:


They should create two starter trios and give you one at the end like in Emerald.


They will give us Kanto starters this time, like in PC they gave us Johto starters

Neither of these are nor will be true. These ideals are bothering me, so I decided to rant about it. IF WE COULD CONNECT TO GSCRBY, THEY WOULD NOT HAVE GIVEN US JOHTO STARTERS IN THE 3RD GENERATION.

But since we could not, they had to give us them back. Kanto took care of a good half, Emerald took care of the other. PC/XD had all of them in it, (XD also had Kanto), but had some unneeded Pokemon too.

chosen_one386
22nd July 2006, 7:24 PM
I don't really get this rant...

Anyway, they are JHOTO STARTERS, not 3rd gen starters. No one said they were 3rd gen starters, did they?

Zora
22nd July 2006, 7:32 PM
I don't really get this rant...

Anyway, they are JHOTO STARTERS, not 3rd gen starters. No one said they were 3rd gen starters, did they?
You'd be surprised. I actually found this post from DP, this is a real example


I think you may be able to get another starter after you beat the elite 4 or something,hopefully not anything too difficult though,like getting a Johto starter on emerald >.<


And XD, man was that a headache.

Shinin
22nd July 2006, 8:01 PM
You'd be surprised. I actually found this post from DP, this is a real example



And XD, man was that a headache.

It's not that hard to understand. As long as you recognise the phrase "Johto starters" as what everyone who uses it means by it, it shouldn't be very hard to know what people like that are talking about.

Also, it's easier to say "Johto starters" than to say "second generation starters."

Hoshi no Kabii
22nd July 2006, 8:29 PM
Aww. I thought this was going to be a good rant on how the Jhoto starters were shafted:(

They are called Jhoto starters. They were the starters in the Jhoto region. There is no Jhoto region in the third generation. You call them Jhoto pokemon. These 'Jhoto pokemon' were not actually in Jhoto. They were in Colo., XD, and Emerald. We calling them Jhoto starters refers to the fact that they were starters of the Jhoto region. Just because they are not in Jhoto, does not make them ordinary 'Jhoto pokemon.' If you trade a Charmander from Leaf Green to Emerald, it is still a Kanto starter. Same with Jhoto Starters.

I dove thee Jhoto Starters.

Pure
22nd July 2006, 9:12 PM
Exactly. What did you call Bulbasaur, Charmander and Squirtle before FRLG came out? Kanto Starters. When the 4th gen comes out, what will you call Treecko, Mudkip and Torchic? 3rd generation starters? Incorrect, as there are 2 sets of 3rd gen games. Call them Hoenn starters. Would you call the badges 1st, 2nd, 3rd gen badges instead of Kanto, Johto, Hoenn badges?

And it's Johto, not Jhoto...

Zora
23rd July 2006, 6:07 AM
Okay, I am not ranting on the title. I am ranting on the idea that we are now starting to get:

1.) More then one starter trio each generation

2.) Console RPG's do not contain starters just so you choose a "starter." That is what the Eevee's for.

3.) That if they were able to get, no one would have these ideals.


That is what I am ranting on. Not the title. Yes I am well aware of their title, but their title does not mean that you get benefits like more starters or Console RPG's have them as starters.

Havoc Houndoom
23rd July 2006, 6:55 AM
In all technicality, the second Shadow Pokemon you Snag in Colosseum is a second-level form of one of the Johto starters. So, though your real 'starters' are Espeon and Umbreon, and there's a shadow Makuhita first, the real 'choice' is between Bayleef, Quilava, and Croconaw.

True, you get the others later, but that's beside the point.

Zora
23rd July 2006, 7:02 AM
You choose one because most games make you choose an event Pokemon:

RBYFrLg: Fossil/Dog

GSC: Eeveelution

RSE: Fossils

PC: Johto Trio

XD: Eeveelution

I hidden tradition ignored. However, in GSC and PC, you could get the other choice Pokemon back through other ways.

The Edge
23rd July 2006, 7:54 AM
WTF. Does it really matter?

Shinin
23rd July 2006, 3:45 PM
I hidden tradition ignored. However, in GSC and PC, you could get the other choice Pokemon back through other ways.

Are you saying you can get the other starters in GSC?

Zora
23rd July 2006, 7:14 PM
Are you saying you can get the other starters in GSC?

Aside from starters. Notice how each event choice Pokemon never had anything to do with starters, but if you insist, they are omitted in this case.

My point is, DP will have just one trio of starters, the next RPG will probably lack starters all together, and finally, Johto starters were there not because Nintendo wanted us to have more starter Pokemon, but so we could have more areas to access Johto Pokemon. People are thinking that in DP, after you finish Shinou dex, you can choose a Kanto/Johto/Hoenn starter, but you can not. See what I mean?

Psyboy
23rd July 2006, 7:59 PM
I don't see why this is such a big problem, I can barley understand what your rant is about. Are you angry that we are able to get the Johto Starters in the 3rd gen games? Cause if you are you'd be the first person I've read that is.

Trooper Guy
23rd July 2006, 8:38 PM
^^No, he's on about the fact that the Johto starters are being classed as starters, but they weren't treated as such in the 3rd generation. Thus, he's saying that they aren't really starters in the 3rd generation, correct me if i'm wrong. And i half agree.

While they sure as hell weren't treated as starters in the 3rd generation, they were first ever introduced to the world as starters back in the 2nd gen. So it's only natural that most people will see them, and remember them that way, i sure do.

Moonlight.
23rd July 2006, 8:49 PM
Again, most people don't view them as starters in this generation. They call them Johto Starters because they were the starters in Johto.

Powerful_Blaziken88
23rd July 2006, 10:08 PM
My point is, DP will have just one trio of starters, the next RPG will probably lack starters all together, and finally, Johto starters were there not because
Nintendo wanted us to have more starter Pokemon, but so we could have more areas to access Johto Pokemon. People are thinking that in DP, after you finish
Shinou dex, you can choose a Kanto/Johto/Hoenn starter, but you can not. See what I mean?
How do you know all this? D/P isn't even out yet.

Also don't forget they have stats compareable to starters. Not to mention they have the starter signature abilities (overgrow, blaze, torent) which only starters have, Another reason they're classified as starters.

Cloud Strife
24th July 2006, 12:10 AM
So what should I call them hotshot?

The normal third generation Pokemon formerly starters in the Johto games?

No, I think we should call them what they are, the Johto starters.

Zora
24th July 2006, 12:38 AM
^^No, he's on about the fact that the Johto starters are being classed as starters, but they weren't treated as such in the 3rd generation. Thus, he's saying that they aren't really starters in the 3rd generation, correct me if i'm wrong. And i half agree.

While they sure as hell weren't treated as starters in the 3rd generation, they were first ever introduced to the world as starters back in the 2nd gen. So it's only natural that most people will see them, and remember them that way, i sure do.

Finally someone understands. I am not ranting on their title, put how people misinterpret there purpose in the 3rd generation.

Jiggy37
24th July 2006, 1:26 AM
Finally someone understands. I am not ranting on their title, put how people misinterpret there purpose in the 3rd generation.Just because people call them starters doesn't mean that they're misinterpreting their purpose.

Darkdd
24th July 2006, 1:35 AM
You'd be surprised. I actually found this post from DP, this is a real example



And XD, man was that a headache.

Please don't quote me out of context.When I(and most people) use the term 'starters',I'm simply referring to that group of 3 pokemon that you start with in any given generation regardless of where or how they are obtained.I traded my bayleef over from colo yet I still refer to it as a starter.

Zora
24th July 2006, 1:35 AM
Just because people call them starters doesn't mean that they're misinterpreting their purpose.

Well at least you are on the right track, that is why I beforehand provided these examples:

http://www.serebiiforums.com/showpost.php?p=3776916&postcount=10

Look at the bottom two qoutes

Moonlight.
24th July 2006, 12:44 PM
Well at least you are on the right track, that is why I beforehand provided these examples:

http://www.serebiiforums.com/showpost.php?p=3776916&postcount=10

Look at the bottom two qoutes
The second quote is fine, because by "Kanto starters" and "Johto starters", they probably mean the starters from each of the two regions, respectively.

I do see your point on the first quote though. They're not exactly starters if you get them towards the end of the game.

Zora
24th July 2006, 5:02 PM
The second quote is fine, because by "Kanto starters" and "Johto starters", they probably mean the starters from each of the two regions, respectively.

I do see your point on the first quote though. They're not exactly starters if you get them towards the end of the game.

Then clearly you haven't been to the DP section. People really think that, just because we know doesn't mean they haven't realized it.

Psyboy
24th July 2006, 5:18 PM
Do you want us to call them "Enders"?

Zora
24th July 2006, 10:26 PM
Do you want us to call them "Enders"?

No, I do not care what you call them. The title means nothing (or 'the fact they are called Johto starters means nothing). It is just how people think they were released in games because Nintendo wants to start a new trend.

Psyboy
25th July 2006, 1:42 AM
Oh I understand you now, Sorry about that!

Shiny_Milotic
25th July 2006, 3:10 AM
If one says "starter" and is referring to R/B/Y/Fr/Lg, they mean Bulbasaur, Charmander, and Squirtle. That is referring to Kanto.

If one says "starter" and is referring to R/S/E, they mean Treecko, Torchic, and Mudkip. That is referring to Hoenn.

If one says "starter" and is referring to GSE, they mean Chikorita, Cyndaquil, and Totodile. That is referrring to Johto.

All 9 of those Pokemon are considered "starters" because you are able to choose them as your starter in their respective games.

You are right, in the 3rd Generation, they are not starters. That doesn't erase their past though. In G/S/C they were starters. They are the Johto Starters. If you are referring to starters you are referring to whatever region you get them in. The Johto starters aren't presented as starters in Emerald, but are presented in an extremely different way, thus showing there is something special about them, almost a legendary ( if you will ) that can breed.

I understand your point. In Emerald they are released to the player as a Johto Pokemon. Not really a starter, but more of a finisher. Either way, they are still Johto Starters. If you play in the Johto region, they will be your starters, and nothing can change that.

Momoko Lover
25th July 2006, 4:29 AM
For the last time, that's not what he means. He means that people are thinking that just because the Johto starters where in Emerald, they're going to start doing that for D/P. Which I think, won't be the case.

The Johto starters were just there, like Zora said, to let all Johto pokemon become accessible... I think that's what he said..... Anyways, what I'm getting at is, that he's not talking about calling them "Johto starters." That is not what he means.

Trooper Guy
25th July 2006, 4:44 AM
Finally someone understands. I am not ranting on their title, put how people misinterpret there purpose in the 3rd generation.
Would've preferred, "Finally, someone who understands", as i got what you meant from the beginning, but didn't post. But yeah, don't pay attention to the title people.

Zora
25th July 2006, 10:03 PM
For the last time, that's not what he means. He means that people are thinking that just because the Johto starters where in Emerald, they're going to start doing that for D/P. Which I think, won't be the case.

The Johto starters were just there, like Zora said, to let all Johto pokemon become accessible... I think that's what he said..... Anyways, what I'm getting at is, that he's not talking about calling them "Johto starters." That is not what he means.

Thank you. Basically people are thinking that possibly we will get Hoenn/Johto/Kanto starters in DP without trading, secondly, the RPG games only contained Johto starters to have access to them. It is the time you got them that fooled people, but it was part of Miror B.'s story in regards to the pawns, which had the three "starters." People thought then towards the beginning of XD that you would got the second stage of Kanto starters, or some even thought Hoenn for that matter.