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View Full Version : Dark was meant to Physical, Ghost --> Special



♪Crystal Mew♪
13th August 2006, 4:56 PM
Does anyone else see that they royally screwed this up...

Although it does make for some fun movesets they totally screwed this one up...

I mean how is Crunching, Biting, Faint Attack, Beat up, Knock Off, Pursuit, and Theif Special??? They are all going to end up being physical attacks in DP anyways...


And lets look at the ghost end of this...

Shadow Ball SCREAMS Special Att... It even has a chance of lowering sp. def.... whats the point if its on a physical sweeping set... (Night Shade should be special)

Although the other attacking ghost moves should all be physical ex. lick, astonish, shadow punch

idk... I just think ninty screwed up royally...

what do you think?

SneazzL.com
13th August 2006, 5:39 PM
I'm Completely even with you really
WTF Shadow Ball psychical OMG
Beat Up Special Crunch special, Bite special WTF :\
JUST NO NO NO

Nintendo SLEEPS here,

WhiteWizard42
13th August 2006, 6:15 PM
Shadow Ball SCREAMS Special Att... It even has a chance of lowering sp. def.... whats the point if its on a physical sweeping set... (Night Shade should be special)
crunch lowers SDef too. your point?

i've thought the same thing, though. and since darks were originally conceived to be the anti-psychic, they should have been physical since most psychics have crap physical defense.

Jeffrey199
14th August 2006, 3:52 AM
I have always believed this, and always thought it was some programmers error they were too embarrassed to admit. Well if rumors about the 4th gen are true then this "mistake" will finally be corrected and Gengar will finally prove itself the best ghost type in the game.

BasiltheDragon
15th August 2006, 10:01 AM
Well, Ninty can't have it right every time.

Diaruga dude
15th August 2006, 11:31 AM
crunch lowers SDef too. your point?

yes but crunch IS a special attack, shadow ball isnt

chrombot
15th August 2006, 11:55 AM
I have always believed this, and always thought it was some programmers error they were too embarrassed to admit. Well if rumors about the 4th gen are true then this "mistake" will finally be corrected and Gengar will finally prove itself the best ghost type in the game.

If it was really a mistake, they would have fixed it in g/s/c. It's not like changing ghost from att to special then would have been a big deal. There was only 1 ghost move, lick. It hardly would have been game changing then to make ghost special, and thus all ghost moves then added special and dark could have been att. They made dark special to give psychic a special based counter.
It all makes sense, and it isn't a mistake and they were in no way embarassed. things were pretty simple in gen 1 that though could have changed alot in gen 2.

The real mistakes were making so few bug and ghost moves. Or making beedrill and gengar poison, thus weak to psychic.

4 8 15 16 23 42
15th August 2006, 12:09 PM
I agree because Ghost is super effective against Ghost, if Ghost was physical, you couldn't attack other ghosts. The same thing goes for dark (against Ghost).

shiny manafi
15th August 2006, 12:13 PM
I never knew shadow ball was physical...OMG No wonder my mewtwo's shadow ball was so weak

SneazzL.com
15th August 2006, 1:20 PM
I agree because Ghost is super effective against Ghost, if Ghost was physical, you couldn't attack other ghosts. The same thing goes for dark (against Ghost).
There you have a point
Ghost is Super Effective against there self so it just have to be special XD

coolcobra77
15th August 2006, 2:33 PM
Yeah they pretty much have to change every pokemon to go with this... Because say Alakazam many ppl rely on the: Calm mind,Psychic, fire punch, thunder punch set... with 2 of those phsyical they all gonna sck

Pretty much every pokemon will be affected by this... and most ppl will just have to rely on STAB to take out opponets... which I personallly think is better.

Great Sage
15th August 2006, 2:35 PM
How the HELL is biting someone in Crunch physical? Nintendo really goofed.

Theneedleman
15th August 2006, 7:45 PM
Yeah I still don't get that when you bite/crunch it is special, that is as physical as you can get. Seriously Shadow Ball should be special as it can lower Sp. Defense.

Skorpius47
15th August 2006, 7:45 PM
Just speculation. If it was really a mistake, it would have been altered in RSE. But it wasn't.

pajama
15th August 2006, 8:05 PM
I love that shdow ball is special so my gengar is even better but i hate it because shedinja will be weaker than it was and banette has been ruined to. I am happy for gengar though but it sucks for the 2 other ghosts who could use it good.

Rafear
16th August 2006, 3:01 AM
I agree because Ghost is super effective against Ghost, if Ghost was physical, you couldn't attack other ghosts. The same thing goes for dark (against Ghost).
I use Flying-type moves on Ghost's all the time (Flying = physical) so neither Ghost or Dark have to be special in order to ko of Ghost's.... (I dont understand how a bird swooping down can ko them either, but it does)

Dark Charizard
16th August 2006, 4:22 AM
Here is something everyone seems to be missing (or maybe I'm just missing something). Ghost was already a physical type in Red/Blue/Yellow. This was probably because the only Ghost attack with a power rating was Lick, which isn't really a special attack, or maybe they didn't want both Ghost and Psychic being of the same nature. This is probably why Dark was made special, so it wasn't the same nature as Ghost.

Chaos Sneasel
16th August 2006, 4:29 AM
I agree because Ghost is super effective against Ghost, if Ghost was physical, you couldn't attack other ghosts. The same thing goes for dark (against Ghost).

But that would mean moves like thunderpunch wouldn't hit ghosts this generation, as they're now considered physical, right?
That's kinda weird.

~Chaos Sneasel ;215;

SUBRICK
16th August 2006, 5:03 AM
Guys, don't worry about pokemon being ruined. Im sure they're adding moves in DP to neutralize this. They will make special dark type moves like Darkfire or darkbeam or dark tornado. As for ghost types, they already made shadow punch which no doubt will be physical in DP. More will be made, I'm sure. (like ghoul takle, shadow kick, shadow claw) [/badIdeas]

Edit: Hooray, a Blaine trainer thingy! :D

Pikachu1125
16th August 2006, 5:10 AM
Physical attacks can hit ghosts... just not normal and fighting.

chrombot
16th August 2006, 5:28 AM
Here is something everyone seems to be missing (or maybe I'm just missing something). Ghost was already a physical type in Red/Blue/Yellow. This was probably because the only Ghost attack with a power rating was Lick, which isn't really a special attack, or maybe they didn't want both Ghost and Psychic being of the same nature. This is probably why Dark was made special, so it wasn't the same nature as Ghost.

I mentioned that a bit, everyone ignored it. Though, people are taking what they know of ghosts elsewhere and applying it to pokemon. The Ghost in pokemon are different.


Physical attacks can hit ghosts... just not normal and fighting.

I think it's important people reread that, so they dont forget, kinda sad we need to be reminded of it as well.
If ghosts were more ghos tlike nothing would hit them, everything would go through them,water, rocks, electricity, steel. They're not though, in pokemon ghosts are unique.

As for ghost being physical, in pokemon, it makes sense. They kind of went for the slimer from ghostbuster thing. Just read the attack descriptions. Lick and shadow ball aren't physical because of, I hate to use a term foreign to pokemon, but ectoplasm. Shadow ball is like a ball of slime being hurled at the enemy. Attack says "black blob". I could see it becoming special, about a 50:50 As it could be like a water attack or a poison attack.

As for dark being special, it's not darkness. The real dark type is ghost. They are much more dark based, in the sense of shadows and such. Dark type in japan is called Evil type. That wasn't going to fly well in the US so it was called Dark type. This gets kind of tricky, as Dark type sounds more like it could be special based than Evil type. Alot of dark moves seem like they should be physical. I think we'll have to wait and see, but I really dont think they'll switch too many moves. Our poor 3rd pokemon could be altered way too much. I dont want to see all the dark moves become att based in 4th gen. Even though many dark types have high att. It would flip things too much, I hope for balance in the 4th gen. So, it doesn't kill the 3rd gen.

Eszett
16th August 2006, 5:47 AM
Well, I used to justify this by stating that in order for Dark moves to be effective, you needed a sufficient malicious intent. Such intent is a condition of the mind, thus it would make sense for it to run off of the Special Attack stat. This is why Pokemon like Houndoom, Sharpedo, and Manectric prove to be such effective Crunchers.

On the other hand, Ghost moves involve taking some ghastly material from one's body or the folds of space-time - which is a more-or-less physical substance - and using it as a method of attacking the opponent. Because this is an actual material as opposed to some special, primeval force, it warrants the use of the physical Attack/Defense. In that sense, Shadow Ball can be compared to moves like Earthquake and Rock Slide - while they don't involve contact, they involve the manipulation of more-or-less physical substances.

Ghost matter is a physical substance.
Malice is not.

But now with the new battle system all of that goes down the toilet. ;[ As if adjusting the stats of Pokemon is so hard...

chrombot
16th August 2006, 10:27 AM
That makes alot of sense. Almost exactly what I was thinking about ghost and a good explaination of Dark/Evil type. (think I'll start calling it that to remind people)

c0nnor
19th August 2006, 11:43 AM
Well i agree that dark must be physical cuz' some dark pokemon dont have high special attack so u can't teach them good STAB attacks.And ;248; Crunch will be better :D

♪Crystal Mew♪
19th August 2006, 5:23 PM
houndoom if I remember right has a suprisingly high sp. att... which is why it makes good use of crunch, and a sunny beamer set

Jolteonmaster2
19th August 2006, 10:47 PM
Their big mistake was when Pokemon was invented...making Lick the only Ghost move...how is Lick a ghost type move anyways? Shoudn't it be Poison or something?

Gilgamesh
19th August 2006, 10:54 PM
Their big mistake was when Pokemon was invented...making Lick the only Ghost move...how is Lick a ghost type move anyways? Shoudn't it be Poison or something?

Why would a lick be poisonous? Lick should've been normal imo.