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JoeyRavn
24th October 2006, 1:29 PM
Why on earth don't moderators enforce rules? You see, people, I'm tired of seeing whole threads of the same answer. Go to 3rd Gen discussion and see it for yourselves.

"Where is teh Rayquzzan?"

"Sky Pillar after Sootopolis"
"Beat Sootopolis, then go to the Sky Pillar"
"Go to the skai pilar after beating sutoplis"
And it never fails the one that says: "*mini-mods* U r all saying the same thing all over. Anyway, go to the Sky Pillar after beating the Sootopolis thingy like everyone said"

Don't rules clearly state that this is forbiden? Shouldn't mods do something about this?

AJ Flibble
24th October 2006, 2:18 PM
lmao

They do. They close/delete threads. They do a lot. They can only go so far to enforce the rules. It's often down to the members not to create such threads.

Forums need more common sense IMO.

The Benmeister
24th October 2006, 2:20 PM
I can thank the Pokegods that someone else is fed up with it.

Unfortunately, however, the mods can't really alter people's common sense, so we'll just have to be tolerant.

JoshYEAH
24th October 2006, 2:33 PM
Use the report button, they work wonders. Mods can't be online all the time, so the most you can do is just save your replies and use the report button, that's the fastest way we'll get to something.

-Josh

JoeyRavn
25th October 2006, 12:22 AM
Use the report button, they work wonders. Mods can't be online all the time, so the most you can do is just save your replies and use the report button, that's the fastest way we'll get to something.

-Josh

I use it. A lot. But it's overwhelming. It's crammed full of that kind of massive post-copying, paired with the HUGE amount of stupid threads ("where do I find Prof. Bircht in Emereld? Hurry up I need pokaimans to NBXORZBBQ tonite!!"). And let's not forget the wrong forum posting ("I know this doesn't belong here, but I didn't want to scroll down three pixels more to get to the RMT forums...").
Seriously, mods need to start punishing users for not reading the rules, and thus disobeing them, instead of mass-closing threads.

Hukuzo
25th October 2006, 12:34 AM
The moderators here are nazis, in my opinion. They lock threads left and right without any warning or a good explanation.

Fiery Blaziken
25th October 2006, 12:38 AM
Maybe they're busy doing something else? :O


The moderators here are nazis, in my opinion. They lock threads left and right without any warning or a good explanation.

No they're not. They give explanations most of the time and pretty much any thread locked deseves it. :/

Kikas123
25th October 2006, 12:49 AM
Well, you know these mods are probably looking on how severly spammy the thread is, and how to deal with them in an efficent fashon

The moderators here are nazis, in my opinion. They lock threads left and right without any warning or a good explanation.
Actually, the mods are Quite Lienient, maybe a bit too leinent, but still if you wanna see Nazi, just go find Joseph Gobelsl, he and his Nazi friends are probably still in Brazil.

Wolf Goddess
25th October 2006, 1:33 AM
The moderators here are nazis, in my opinion. They lock threads left and right without any warning or a good explanation.

One complains about us not doing our jobs, while at the same time here's someone who doesn't want us to do our jobs.

Wonderful.

The best thing you can do is just report it. When a mods sees it, she'll take care of it. There's nothing else to it, really.

Captain Brain
25th October 2006, 2:41 AM
I My Opinion there are 3 kinds of normal members
1. Those who complain that mods don't do their jobs
2. Those who think there shouldn't be mods
3. People who appreciate the mods work.

I also think that a thread like this should officially be created. this:http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=112267
Be sure to read the last post. If a mod made the thread I think it would have a better response.
It would be the least we could do is post in a thread like that and follow the rules. ;025;

JoeyRavn
25th October 2006, 1:30 PM
Thanks to the "mods are nazis" guy this whole thread has gone completely offtopic.
I never said that mods don't do their work correctly, I just said it could be somehow harder: if an user keeps on breaking rules, it can have its rank lowered, and thus getting less privileges than most other users, or getting a temp ban, or I-don't-know. But it's pointless to just close the thread with a "don't do it again" message, as they'll do it again. Several times. Till they get banned.
Sincerely, I never wanted anyone to understand that I think Serebii's mods don't do their jobs correctly. I know it's pretty hard to control forums this big, but you may also agree with me that there a lot of users that don't follow the rules and get away with it, while we respectful users have to put up with their mess...

JoshYEAH
26th October 2006, 2:45 AM
The moderators here are nazis, in my opinion. They lock threads left and right without any warning or a good explanation.

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7360/notcommiesfn7.png


But it's pointless to just close the thread with a "don't do it again" message, as they'll do it again. Several times. Till they get banned.
A lot of the time, people learn from their mistakes. We can't just ban people or take away priveliges because they made a mistake that's been made before. The most we can do is close the topic, with a reminder, and then hope that they've learnt. Obviously those who don't learn are banned, but the reality of it is, what we do is all we can do.

You guys could help by not replying to topics that will be closed though, but hey, you don't have to take my advice and go into practice with this great idea.

-Josh

Rashdan
26th October 2006, 2:56 AM
Really, I'd say mods are doing a good enough job as it, maybe even better. Consdering there are only 50ish mods, 500+ pages of members, and many different forums, it's quite a lot for them to handle. Due to that, chances of missing something is fairly high.

Not that I'm saying there ought to be more mods, but they should be appreciated for all the hard work that they have been putting into SPPF.

LexSuicune
26th October 2006, 3:48 AM
This forum is BIG enough for them to stay all over every thread...
They have lifes you know?
I know thats a little frustrating, don t rant, just do your part and report.

~Bent~
26th October 2006, 3:54 AM
Want my opinion? (You don't.)

At other forums, including ones larger than this one, I've seen good methods for administration. I'll describe one forums' in detail, despite the fact that several of its features are in place here already, because it all needs to be there.

- Warnings are logged in the usernotes.
- After three warnings for the same offense, or five total for different offenses, a moderator can start a thread as a ban request in the mod forum.
- The high majority of bans are permanent, but a member can create a new account (unless he is such a troublemaker that he is placed on "Ban on Sight"). Said member can never have a name change to his old account name.
- Multiple accounts are allowed, but interaction between them is banned.
- If a mod sees a signature over the limit, he can post a link to the member's profile in a dedicated signature in the mod forum.

- Moderators have the power to close and stickify threads in the forum they mod.
- Moderators have the power to move/rearrange/merge posts and threads in the forums they mod.
- Moderators have the authority to give a usernote warning to a member in the forum they mod.
- When a warning is given, the moderator posts a usernote and posts in the thread, stating that the person is warned. If needed, the thread is closed. (Mods can PM the warned member as a courtesy, though this is not required.)
- Mods can moderate a maximum of five forums. This allows them to give more attention to the forums they mod, and also keeps them from being overwhelmed.

- Super Moderators have all the powers that mods have, but in every forum.
- Super Moderators can ban members.
- Super Moderators can give sig warnings and remove signatures.
- Super Moderators can change names.
- There is a small number of Super Moderators.
- One S-Mod is dedicated to name changes.
- One S-Mod is dedicated to watching the signature thread.
- All S-Mods are dedicated to watching for ban requests in the mod forum.

- Admins do... whatever admins do in their special admin-only forum.

- Whenever a mod feels that he isn't active enough to take care of his forum (or realizes that his forum could use more help), he nominates a worthy member in a sticky thread in the mod forum. Every three months (or when needed), an administrator starts a poll in the mod forum for each member. If the member gets more positive votes than negative ones, the member passes the vote and is promoted to moderator of the forum he was nominated for.
- If needed, a moderator can "drop" a forum at any time.
- If a forum has no moderators at any time, it is mentioned in a devoted sticky topic for modless forums. Any moderator can post to be added to a modless forum.


That's not all of it, but it's enough to make a difference if it were implemented. And if the moderators say they can't be on all the time, well, promote someone who can. There are members here who can spend over an hour each day on the forums, and I'm sure that there are at least a few who are mod material.

Locke Yggdrasill
26th October 2006, 4:44 AM
Thanks to the "mods are nazis" guy this whole thread has gone completely offtopic.
Thanks to you, there's a topic to go offtopic with.

And whatever happened to the report button being some "Well, you can hit it, but nothing will be done about it. It's just better to PM a mod" buton? Has the route of the reports been rerouted or something? Anyway, they're doing fine. How long have you been here? Not long. Sit back and chill for awhile, then start complaining. If you think that it needs repair, why don't you try becoming a moderator and seeing what happens, eh?

TRJessie579
26th October 2006, 5:41 AM
The moderators here are nazis, in my opinion. They lock threads left and right without any warning or a good explanation.

Thanks SO much for comparing us to monsters who helped to slaughter millions of innocent people, that's really an appropriate analogy there.

If I close a thread without posting a reason why, there are only two reasons:

1. The thread is complete and utter spam, and other members have posted to say so;

2. The question has been answered and the topic creator requests it to be closed.

Otherwise I post a reason why I'm closing the thread. People like you who post these kind of comments can never give an example of a thread that was closed "without a good explanation."

As to the original topic, again, mods can't be here 24/7, we all have lives and I think it'd be REALLY difficult to find new mods that CAN be here every hour of their lives. We do the best we can. If you see something against the rules, REPORT IT instead of making threads complaining about it.

When I do see the kind of threads discussed in the OP, if it's only a few posts and it's not completely out of hand (2 pages saying the same thing), I'll either close it since it's answered, or post with a link to the rules and an admonishment to the people who posted, and THEN close it. If I warned every single person doing this kind of thing every time I saw it, I swear I'd never do anything else. What I DO do is look at each person's post count and see if they have any other posts like that ("what they said," etc). If it's a recurring thing, THEN I will warn them.

I don't want to feel that we as mods have to defend ourselves all the time, but I DO want to explain my method so people understand we do what we can how and when we can. Considering it's all volunteer and the majority of us are older teens/young adults with school and/or jobs, IMHO we do pretty damn well.

LexSuicune
26th October 2006, 5:45 AM
You sure do...
And I completely understand...Im a mod and it like they think we don t have anything else to do but follow thread by thread and post by post every day.
It s damn annoying when they have the nerve to b/tch about it when they don t know what it takes.

JoeyRavn
26th October 2006, 7:42 PM
Ok, thank you. I'll leave this boards, you may close this.
A guy says you mods are nazis, and that becomes my opinion. I say I'm fed up of idiots making my SerebiiForums experience a bit worse with every post they make, I'm calling the mods lazy and saying they don't do their jobs well. Pretty nice way to tell me to shut up.


Although some might see it as spam under the definition of posting information or asking something pointless, it isn't.

Please. The Rules clearly state that posting what the above users already posted, without giving any useful info aside from that, is SPAM. I read the rules. They state it.


Thanks to you, there's a topic to go offtopic with.
It's call 'an opinion', thank you very much. If you're gonna put yourselves in a defensive stance everytime someone disagrees with you this is gonna be very hard to put up with.
To sum it up, you won't accept any suggestions. The best thing for me to do is get out of this forums, as you seem to treat all users equally, that being both good and bad.

TRJessie579
27th October 2006, 2:53 AM
You said the mods were lazy; the mods came and we defended ourselves, explaining that we do our jobs to the best of our abilities. And because of that we're "nazis." .... Mmkay.

And we "won't accept suggestions?" Where did you ever suggest anything that would help us? All you said was "mods don't enforce rules, they're lazy." That's not a suggestion.

As I said before, one instance of spam in one thread isn't enough to get someone warned or banned right away. If someone is spamming continuously something will be done. If someone posts "yeah, what they said" one time in one thread we're not going to explode on them, people make mistakes. We close spam threads when we see them, we warn and ban people when it's appropriate. What do you suggest we do differently?

We have plenty of members telling us we're TOO strict, and some telling us we're not strict enough. We can't please everyone, and if you really think it's so horrible here you are welcome to leave, as is any member.

Blaziken D.
27th October 2006, 3:11 AM
Why do people think mods are servants? They're not lifeless computer drones as are the GMs of Yu-Gi-Oh Online. If you don't like how things are run, then you go ahead and leave. You are obviously ungreatful of the job these mods do to make these forums enjoyable.


-Scipio-

I_Love_Ami
27th October 2006, 4:38 AM
If It Weren't For The Mods This Forum Wouldn't Be The Same. They have Worked Hard With This Forum And You Are Calling Them Lazy

Spock
27th October 2006, 5:06 PM
Ok, thank you. I'll leave this boards, you may close this.
A guy says you mods are nazis, and that becomes my opinion. I say I'm fed up of idiots making my SerebiiForums experience a bit worse with every post they make, I'm calling the mods lazy and saying they don't do their jobs well. Pretty nice way to tell me to shut up.


Go sulk somewhere else.

LexSuicune
27th October 2006, 5:52 PM
Ok, thank you. I'll leave this boards, you may close this.
A guy says you mods are nazis, and that becomes my opinion. I say I'm fed up of idiots making my SerebiiForums experience a bit worse with every post they make, I'm calling the mods lazy and saying they don't do their jobs well. Pretty nice way to tell me to shut up.

Okay...for once you made a good desicion....
If you complain and do nothing about the situation [which I think is only in your paranoid head] just go ahead and leave.
Don t let the door smack you in the *** while your leaving.
Sure as hell mods are doing one heck of a job over here to be defending themselves from b/tchy internet brats with lots of time on their hands
Mods, the "user" requested this thread to be closed. I recommend you do so, this makes no sense anymore.

~Bent~
28th October 2006, 3:42 AM
So asking where to find Rayquaza doesn't fit the category of spam.I don't think the topic creator was referring to the starter of the topic so much he was referring to the many, many people who replied. E.g.,

"Where do you catch Rayquaza?"
"You beat the Elite Four."
"Don't forget, you need the Mach Bike. Also, he'll be at level 70."

^ That wouldn't be, err, SPAM. However:

"Where do you catch Rayquaza?"
"You beat the Elite Four."
"Yeah, what he said."
"Just go to Ever Grande and beat the Elite Four."
"You need to beat the game first!"

By the very definition of SPAM, repeated messages are pointless, and many people (including myself) would consider them both "stupid" and "annoying." And unfortunately, it happens a lot around the forum.

But in any case, the most we can do to really enforce the rules is lay a ban down. Closing or deleting a topic isn't going to show the person anything other than leaving him or her with the question of what happened to the topic. In which, people who have had their topics deleted by a mod simply repost the same topic. They don't think it's wrong.I don't see why anyone would delete a topic, as it's a simple two clicks without loading to close a thread.

Laying a ban down isn't the only option, technically. Remember sig warnings? It's quite a good system that's been implemented -- after someone breaks the sig rules once, a warning is logged to their usernotes. When they receive a certain number of sig warnings, they lose privileges.

Why not implement the "sig system" for regular warnings as well? After a moderator sees a bad post, the moderator posts a usernote with a link to the bad post (e.g., "Warned for flaming. (http://www.serebiiforums.com/numbershere)"), and then posts in the thread to tell the member that a warning was given. Then when there are three warnings (or however many the administration decides on), the member is banned. Not only would this provide a quick and simple way to keep track of who's a good member and who's not, it would also serve as a visual deterrent to the general public -- if they see people getting warnings, they will be less likely to repeat the same behavior.

Granted, it would gain a lot of criticism from a large number of forum members if it were implemented -- but as the staff members have often noted, they receive negative comments about almost any new feature, good or not.
And you try being a mod. What are you going to do? Puppy guard your particular forum?...It's what I do...

Juputoru
28th October 2006, 6:00 AM
Not only would this provide a quick and simple way to keep track of who's a good member and who's not, it would also serve as a visual deterrent to the general public -- if they see people getting warnings, they will be less likely to repeat the same behavior.
The problem here being that normal members can only see their own usernotes.

I make a point not to complain about something if I could do something about it but don't, and you should too. If I see a sig with a giant pic in it, I have no right to complain about it not being removed until I PM Psiumbreon(or Wolf Goddess or someone else who takes care of sigs) about it and a reasonable amount of time has passed(ie. if the person I PMed hasn't even went to SPPf since I PMed them or in any case where it's been less than a day). Same goes for spammy threads and posts in general. The funny thing is...if you actually look through threads that are more than five hours old, you actually see that spammy ones ARE delt with. Of course the first page or so's going to have spam threads open - the mods can't be expected to hover over each forum 24/7. Plus some spam threads just die on their own before any intervention comes.

Considering that the forums haven't been completely buried by spam, I would have to say the mods ARE doing their jobs. A few forums are worse than others(notable the whole of General Pokemon Discussion and DP Discussion), but overall it's nowhere near as bad as it could be. And the mods aren't as strict as some make them out to be, either. Especially considering what they have to sift through EVERY DAY(seeing the quantity of stupid posts SPPf gets per day is slightly depressing. I'd rather not imagine what DEALING with all that stupid is like). They make mistakes, but then again so does the rest of the forum.

If nothing else, you'll get used to the spam. I know I have. :<

~Bent~
28th October 2006, 10:55 PM
What Juputoru said could rise a good point. The mods aren't here 24/7, all of us have lives, etc.I realize that, and it is a valid point. If you reread my posts, you'd see that I never said the mods weren't doing their job. But if you say that you're inactive because you "have a life," then many people would view that as a way of saying there's a problem but not doing anything about it. If your daily lives and lack of time are such a problem, then hire new moderators and fix the problem.

Again, I never said the mods weren't doing their job -- in fact, it's to their credit that this forum hasn't descended into total anarchy already (it certainly has the potential).
And posting rules are treated differently than sig rules. For example, I think it's harsh to ban someone for five meager spam posts spread across a few days. And when we warn someone, only they get the warning, and I believe only the other mods can see it. Usernotes too. There is no public system (That would be a little mean).I wasn't referring to usernotes -- I'm aware that they're invisible to other users.

What I meant was, say, the following hypothetical exchange:

Member1: "Where do you get Rayquaza?"
Member2: "On top of Sky Pillar -- it's east of Pacifidlog Town."
MemberX: "Yeah, Rayquaza is totally awesome! But Mewtwo's better."
MemberY: "What are you talking about? Mewtwo's UGLY! Rayquaza totally pwns him!"
Member1: "Thanks 2, but how do I get past these cracks? I always fall through!"
Modulator: "Members X and Y, please stay on topic. I'm giving you a warning for SPAM."

Now, MemberZ comes in this thread, he's a new guy. "Oh hey," he thinks as he reads posts #3 and #4. "I'm going to join in too!" Then he suddenly notices Modulator's post, and thinks, "Wait a minute. This guy says to keep to one topic. I guess I won't post like that, or I'll get in trouble."

See? One less SPAM post.

Usernotes aren't visible, but this form of "public" warning -- similar to the concept of being put in stocks, though without the physical aspect and the level of humiliation (this is the internet, after all). And remember what's said in the Newbie Help Topic & FAQ thread?

"Why shouldn't I SPAM?
The number one reason why you shouldn't, is that it's against the rules. SPAM is also a sign of a lower class. You can fast become known as a 'Spammer' and your reputation will drop."

If it's against the rules, and if the reputation thing (which I assume isn't referring to the old "good rep bad rep" vBulletin feature) is meant to refer to real online "credibility," then people would be able to see through their posts that certain people are SPAMing, and they won't be inclined to repeat the same behavior.

Let's also consider the SPP chat for a moment. Every time someone posts a #, a link, all caps, or certain swear words, they get banned for five minutes. Some people (several actually) think it's too harsh -- but the reply given is that it's required for a good experience for other visitors to the chat. I agree with that to an extent, but why isn't such strictness promoted in the forum? Being banned for five days in a forum is roughly analogous to a five minute chat ban, considering the fact that many chat conversations last less than a minute while many at a forum can last over a month.
And there's also no way to restrict posting of normal members, besides desginating some forums to be moderated, special members only, or due to rank.It's possible to create usergroups that are unable to view a specific forum -- thus effectively "blocking" a notorious SPAMer from a certain forum. It's not even a ban -- and bans aren't an excessively harsh punishment, seeing as they're almost always temporary.

Raphael
29th October 2006, 8:03 PM
Mods are not fascist dictators...they can't just go around telling people what stuff they can't say and do.

Locke Yggdrasill
29th October 2006, 8:16 PM
Actually, this forum is a dictatorship, so, blah. 8

NEO GOHAN
29th October 2006, 8:27 PM
Mods are not fascist dictators...they can't just go around telling people what stuff they can't say and do.

it's called government.

the lack of government is called anarchy.

anarchy is MUCH WORSE than having a bad government.

no government equals no rules: no rules means everyone does what they want. and what they want is RARELY what others want.

I'll let you all think about that.

LugiaRules
29th October 2006, 8:37 PM
The moderators here are nazis, in my opinion. They lock threads left and right without any warning or a good explanation.

LOL, n00bs these days.

The mods are not Nazis, they do their job well. You have no room to complain. Most of the time, when a mod locks a thread, there is a good reason for it. So don't just say stuff without any proof.

Mega Trickster
29th October 2006, 8:39 PM
LOL, n00bs these days.

The mods are not Nazis, they do their job well. You have no room to complain. Most of the time, when a mod locks a thread, there is a good reason for it. So don't just say stuff without any proof.

True, I mean the times when they don't post saying something it should be something dead obvious (like a huge flamewar or a bump). If the moderators were Nazis, we would all be dead anyways.

Chris
29th October 2006, 8:44 PM
I'm generally on all the time.

Doesn't mean I can get to everything.

Simply "promoting someone" who can do that doesn't help. You folks need to learn that COMPLAINING DOES NOTHING. You're better off using the report button or PMing/IMing us.

LugiaRules
29th October 2006, 8:44 PM
True, I mean the times when they don't post saying something it should be something dead obvious (like a huge flamewar or a bump). If the moderators were Nazis, we would all be dead anyways.

Yay! The first time ever that you agreed with me on something! This goes in the record books.

But seriously, Hakuzo (the guy who said mods are Nazis) you need to shut up and think about what you are posting. Wee all know how happy you'd be if you were a mod, so don't go around calling them Nazis.

Sayonara,

;444; LugiaRules

PsychedelicJellyfish
29th October 2006, 9:15 PM
The mods are NOT lazy. They do their job properly, they give reasons for what they're doing (when necessary). Okay, I had a slight hatred of mods for a short while when someone (coughedwardelriccoughahem) closed my thread for reasons I didn't agree with. I also think that some mods are too strict sometimes (chokerazorleafcoughahemhack), but they do their jobs. Leave the mods alone.

Off topic a bit: love the Nazi thingy, Josh.

LexSuicune
29th October 2006, 9:18 PM
What I fail to understand is why is this thread still open when the smart fella who opened it already left and this [from the very beggining] is a stupid topic... plain ridiculous... AND he requested it to be closed.
This is so dead...

Ludicolo Master
29th October 2006, 10:35 PM
I would just like to point out that these stupid disccussions is what cause's Hacker's to Piss off. If your thinking 24/7 , that would be a 20 year old Unemployed person. Please do not think your going to Mod someday.Don't Hack.Hacking is the same thing as putting a Atomic bom(sp?) on a bigtown.and AND WOULD ALL YOU FU*KIN' STOP N00bs MAKING THIS POINTLESS DISCUSSION!?

tHANK YOU.

Amaranth
29th October 2006, 10:42 PM
[rant/]
oML mods arent lazy look some dont post alot BUT DAM do they help they help keep these place great if there were no mods *shudders*
fair enough some mods have differant approaches but they get the job done most of the time well so please dont bad mouth them theres no need if a mod slagged some one it would be like
"oh N0ez they called me Stoooopid"
well in that case ya are
respect people or please dont make these threads

[rant/over]

Shining Mew
29th October 2006, 10:52 PM
What I fail to understand is why is this thread still open when the smart fella who opened it already left and this [from the very beggining] is a stupid topic... plain ridiculous... AND he requested it to be closed.
This is so dead...
Its still around cuz people like you keep replying to whine about it being open instead of just letting it die =(


Here lemme sum up this thread in about 4 lines.

"The mods are too strict"
"No theyre not, theyre doing a good job"
"**** you."
"**** you too."

There we go!