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Platinum fan.
17th June 2014, 10:21 PM
But as said, it was all about the real Madara's feats, meaning they apply to the one who is Madara. And there was quite a few implications that Obito wasn't actually Madara, which is why some people were making the Izuna argument. That became even more clear during the current arc when Kabuto got introduced.

It was stupid, because not only could the Kyuubi's chakra not be used until after all the other Bijuus were sealed, but instead of getting the Kyuubi and getting out of there, Obito stuck around and ended up losing it. And Obito starting this war was stupid. Starting a war didn't give him any advantage or help his plan, but the opposite, it allowed the Alliance to put up a much greater defense then they would have and gave them a reason to put aside all their rivalries.

Right, because the name Madara was mentioned long before either of them appeared. I would say that Nagatoand Danzo were built up more as a final villain then Obito, who really didn't have anything going for him in that department. And I have to disagree about Madara being generic, or less of a final villain then Obito. Obito was barely calling any shots. Originally it was Nagato calling the shots and then Kabuto once he appeared, which then went onto Madara. Same with getting the ball rolling.

Character-wise, Madara was far more fitting. His reasons for being how he was was due to large clear issues, as oppose to Obito's reason the death of a girl he liked. Madara is partially responsible for the state of the current era, it was him and Hashirama who created the whole system. And Madara was only not working behind the scenes for current generation.

I didn't say Obito as a character was better final villain material then Madara. I said Obito as Fake Madara was better then real Madara. Fakedara being Obito was one of the stupidest things done in this manga. But as Fakedara he was far more interesting then real Madara ever was. Madara is a generic boring overlord villain that you'd find in DBZ. Fakedara would have declared war whether he had Kyuubi or not, because it's all about control. He needed Nine-Tails and Eight-Tails. The war was necessary. Did he make mistakes? Of course. But so did every other villain in this entire series. Orochimaru made several mistakes but he's praised as a great villain. If the villains don't make mistakes then they win and the story for the good guys is over. The only reason the real Madara comes off as perfect is because he was introduced so late in the series everything is already done. All he needs to do is show off his BS overlord self and present a threat. And that's all he does.


Every single action made was done by Obito in Madara's name. You said Nagato and Danzo got better build up as final villains? I'd agreed if it wasn't for the fact that Obito revealed himself as the leader of Akatsuki the same chapter we see Nagato/Pain's face revealed. So you already knew Pain wasn't going to be the final villain regardless of how good of a final villain he would have been. Danzo never came off as final villain material to me. He always seemed like a side villain. And while it's shocking on how quickly his reign of terror was, he's barely relevant to the story anymore.
Every buildup from Madara's name was put on Obito as Fakedara. Then when it's war time after every plan is near finished and complete, Kabutomaru unveils generic super boss Madara. He basically takes every buildup plot that was put on Fakedara and uses on himself.

The Izuna and who Tobi really was stuff, barely started until we learned Madara wasn't Madara. Obito as Fakedara still got build up as the final villain until then. No matter what argument is said, the villain Kishi was grooming as the final villain since after Deidara's death was scrapped and pushed aside for another, that just took all the stories and myths they were putting on Obito as Fakedara and put it on him, and this guy's been dead all the while Obito worked behind the scenes getting things together.

lolipiece
18th June 2014, 9:29 AM
Oh no!

"That technique!"

I wonder what nonsense they'll pull out this time.

Red and Blue
18th June 2014, 9:41 AM
Pretty decent chapter this week. It was nice getting more backstory on Black Zetsu. Also, strangely enough, I thought it was kind of touching that Naruto and Sasuke reminded Kaguya of her sons.

Platinum fan.
18th June 2014, 2:36 PM
This chapter would have made a lovely Mother's Day chapter. Overall it just explains Black Zetsu, what he is, what he's done, how he basically used everyone up to this point. And I mean everyone. I'm glad they addressed how Kabutomaru got Trolldara's body. Never would have thought Kabutomaru of all people would be a pawn to someone else. He's not the most powerful, but he certainly ranks up their as the craftiest villain. So in a nutshell all this was to revive Kaguya. According to Black Zetsu the war was successful. Well Black Zetsu, if you truly believe it was then you keep telling yourself that. No real action this chapter and once again Obito's lifeless body is saved. What will they do with it next? A okay chapter. Apparently Naruto and Sasuke have some new hax jutsu they can use. The Super Freak Club have no limits. But not a bad chapter.


RIN IS ALWAYS WATCHING YOU!

pwnswitchclik
18th June 2014, 3:02 PM
This chapter got me confused about Madara: he uses Izanagi to cheat death and then awakens the Rinnegan, thus curing his right eye of blindness? And did Kabuto harvest the DNA from his Shadow Clone for the Edo Tensei, or did he used his real body's? Uhh, the maelstrom of question...s o_o

I'm getting the funky feeling Team 7 is going to make use of Obito's Sharingan at some point.

Emperor Empoleon
18th June 2014, 4:35 PM
Ugh...Crazy crying mommy.

Couldn't we have just finished off Madara to call it a day? Its really hard for me to care about Kaguya.

Although the exposition from Black Zetsu was nice, I guess.

Lorde
18th June 2014, 10:26 PM
Black Zetsu's backstory was good I guess. At least we know more about his identity. Anyway, will Naruto use the old "that jutsu" or a new one?

LightningMaster95
19th June 2014, 12:22 AM
Oh no!

"That technique!"

I wonder what nonsense they'll pull out this time.
12842
this is pretty much what im expecting that technique to be

Platinum fan.
19th June 2014, 12:39 AM
Black Zetsu's backstory was good I guess. At least we know more about his identity. Anyway, will Naruto use the old "that jutsu" or a new one?

I remember at the start of part 2 Jiraiya was all like "Naruto don't use that jutsu." Did they ever confirm what it was? Was it turning into the four tailed Kyuubi? Some kind of Rasengan? I'm not sure if "that jutsu" was answered. If it was let me know what it was. I hate when they go "that jutsu" and then don't tell you what it is. I remember when part 2 started I didn't think they'd ever show use what Sasuke's hidden jutsu was. Then they unveil as the Thunder Clap and he never uses it ever again. Why use that when you can spam MS?

Lorde
19th June 2014, 12:42 AM
I remember at the start of part 2 Jiraiya was all like "Naruto don't use that jutsu." Did they ever confirm what it was? Was it turning into the four tailed Kyuubi? Some kind of Rasengan? I'm not sure if "that jutsu" was answered. If it was let me know what it was. I hate when they go "that jutsu" and then don't tell you what it is. I remember when part 2 started I didn't think they'd ever show use what Sasuke's hidden jutsu was. Then they unveil as the Thunder Clap and he never uses it ever again. Why use that when you can spam MS?

Jiraiya also mentioned "that jutsu" in Amegakure before he fought Pain, but it wasn't expanded on. I really hope it was all foreshadowing from Kishi for this moment tbh.

Platinum fan.
19th June 2014, 12:48 AM
Jiraiya also mentioned "that jutsu" in Amegakure before he fought Pain, but it wasn't expanded on. I really hope it was all foreshadowing from Kishi for this moment tbh.

It will beg the question why we haven't seen this jutsu yet though. I mean, Naruto's been in some tough fights. I would think during the Pain Invasion arc, Naruto would use everything in his power.

Lorde
19th June 2014, 1:28 AM
It will beg the question why we haven't seen this jutsu yet though. I mean, Naruto's been in some tough fights. I would think during the Pain Invasion arc, Naruto would use everything in his power.

Maybe because Kishi didn't think it was necessary to show "that jutsu" until around the manga's finale against the last major villain?

uber gon
19th June 2014, 8:57 PM
So everything bad in this manga was caused because of mommy issues? Hope Zetsu never meets Gendo.

Lorde
19th June 2014, 11:04 PM
I'm kind of confused about how Madara got the Rinnegan in both eyes when one of them had gone blind because of Izanagi. Or does it not matter if an eye is damaged?

Platinum fan.
20th June 2014, 1:22 AM
I'm kind of confused about how Madara got the Rinnegan in both eyes when one of them had gone blind because of Izanagi. Or does it not matter if an eye is damaged?

Maybe getting Rinnegan restores sight in that eye if it has gone blind?

Shneak
20th June 2014, 1:51 AM
Did not like this chapter. The exposition was overbearing and I'm not a fan of Black Zetsu controlling everything now.

Nagato > Obito > Madara > Zetsu > Kaguya

When will it end?

gliscor&yanmega
20th June 2014, 2:08 AM
I've been waiting for Zetsu to get his glory, he's been getting little by little but the chapter he stabbed Madara in the back(Literally and figuratively, so it hurts in two ways for him) and the recent chapter just boosted it to the top. Black Zetsu is basically the cause of everything and Kaguya is just going to get done in by him in the end, it is the way of Zetsu.

Zetsu being my favorite character, I am loving all of this.

Platinum fan.
20th June 2014, 5:11 PM
Did not like this chapter. The exposition was overbearing and I'm not a fan of Black Zetsu controlling everything now.

Nagato > Obito > Madara > Zetsu > Kaguya

When will it end?

It's all a system of control. Pretty soon it will be revealed that Kaguya is under the influence of the fruit she ate, that's been sitting in her stomach for all these years and that it is the true mastermind behind it all. Naruto and Sasuke vs evil Shinju fruit. It's the true final of Naruto. Because clearly it's that fruits fault.

Emperor Empoleon
20th June 2014, 8:42 PM
This is all Chojuro's fault btw.



The Izuna and who Tobi really was stuff, barely started until we learned Madara wasn't Madara. Obito as Fakedara still got build up as the final villain until then. No matter what argument is said, the villain Kishi was grooming as the final villain since after Deidara's death was scrapped and pushed aside for another, that just took all the stories and myths they were putting on Obito as Fakedara and put it on him, and this guy's been dead all the while Obito worked behind the scenes getting things together.

Was he really pushed aside tho? His actions as the fake were still relevant to his story, and he still had major conflict the characters. He even usurped Madara himself by becoming the Juubi Jin. Obito was the main antagonist for most of the war, fake Madara or otherwise. Real Madara didn't take center stage until after both the fake mystery and Obito were thoroughly dealt with.

And I seriously doubt fake was meant to be legit anyway. I mean his face was constantly hidden from the audience, but then we see what the real Madara looks like in flashbacks. That really doesn't make a whole lot of sense, lol. Plus he was supposed to be dead. I think the identity was always questionable.

Platinum fan.
20th June 2014, 9:33 PM
This is all Chojuro's fault btw.



Was he really pushed aside tho? His actions as the fake were still relevant to his story, and he still had major conflict the characters. He even usurped Madara himself by becoming the Juubi Jin. Obito was the main antagonist for most of the war, fake Madara or otherwise. Real Madara didn't take center stage until after both the fake mystery and Obito were thoroughly dealt with.

And I seriously doubt fake was meant to be legit anyway. I mean his face was constantly hidden from the audience, but then we see what the real Madara looks like in flashbacks. That really doesn't make a whole lot of sense, lol. Plus he was supposed to be dead. I think the identity was always questionable.

He kinda was. Yeah, he did get a final fight as Six Paths Obito, but before he got that power and after his mask was taken off, he felt very secondary. Madara was always the stronger of the two anyway, ability wise. Whether or not the fake was meant to be legit or not is up in the air. Kishi really didn't elude to another Madara running around as Fakedara usually always spoke as himself as if he was Madara. There's only one real time he teases that he's not. He even teased that by gaining all the tailed beast it would somehow make him "whole" I assumed that meant regaining his powers or something like that. So in that sense wearing the mask made some kind of sense if he's not at full power. This is all thrown out the window of course when Fakedara is revealed to be a fake.

And the whole point I'm trying to make, but everyone just wants to jump on me and prove me wrong, is that people are complaining that who they thought was going to be the final villain was switched with another, when this is not the first time Kishi did it. Tobi/Obito/fake Madara whoever you want to call him, was being built as the final villain of the war up until the real Madara got summoned and he became the final villain of the war and now it's Kaguya. That's all I'm really trying to say. Kishi's changed his main villains twice. Kaguya just doesn't have Madara's name. But I guess that name makes all the difference, yes?

Lorde
20th June 2014, 10:07 PM
I wouldn't even be surprised if the devil fruit that Kaguya ate was behind all of this tbh. It would be ridiculous though, but then again this whole arc was ridiculous imo.

Emperor Empoleon
21st June 2014, 1:43 AM
He kinda was. Yeah, he did get a final fight as Six Paths Obito, but before he got that power and after his mask was taken off, he felt very secondary. Madara was always the stronger of the two anyway, ability wise. Whether or not the fake was meant to be legit or not is up in the air. Kishi really didn't elude to another Madara running around as Fakedara usually always spoke as himself as if he was Madara. There's only one real time he teases that he's not. He even teased that by gaining all the tailed beast it would somehow make him "whole" I assumed that meant regaining his powers or something like that. So in that sense wearing the mask made some kind of sense if he's not at full power. This is all thrown out the window of course when Fakedara is revealed to be a fake.

And the whole point I'm trying to make, but everyone just wants to jump on me and prove me wrong, is that people are complaining that who they thought was going to be the final villain was switched with another, when this is not the first time Kishi did it. Tobi/Obito/fake Madara whoever you want to call him, was being built as the final villain of the war up until the real Madara got summoned and he became the final villain of the war and now it's Kaguya. That's all I'm really trying to say. Kishi's changed his main villains twice. Kaguya just doesn't have Madara's name. But I guess that name makes all the difference, yes?

Yeah I get what you mean, though I still thought Obito's placement was done fairly enough. Madara had more "prestige", but out of focus for a good minute since he wasn't fighting the main characters until further down.

justinjiaxinghu
21st June 2014, 12:32 PM
Yeah @Platinum Fan I was always intrigued by that statement that Jiraiya made. If they are really talking about that technique, then I actually really want to see it.

TsukiMirage
22nd June 2014, 5:07 PM
I didn't say Obito as a character was better final villain material then Madara. I said Obito as Fake Madara was better then real Madara. Fakedara being Obito was one of the stupidest things done in this manga. But as Fakedara he was far more interesting then real Madara ever was. Madara is a generic boring overlord villain that you'd find in DBZ. Fakedara would have declared war whether he had Kyuubi or not, because it's all about control. He needed Nine-Tails and Eight-Tails. The war was necessary. Did he make mistakes? Of course. But so did every other villain in this entire series. Orochimaru made several mistakes but he's praised as a great villain. If the villains don't make mistakes then they win and the story for the good guys is over. The only reason the real Madara comes off as perfect is because he was introduced so late in the series everything is already done. All he needs to do is show off his BS overlord self and present a threat. And that's all he does. What was interesting about him aside from the identity mystery? I know some people enjoyed the comical personality, but besides that he was like some Saturday morning villain, crackling in the background but not actually doing anything. Madara at least had his trolling and was enjoyable to watch in battle, and at least there was a reason he kept going easy on everyone else. But the war wasn't necessary. He didn't need the war to complete his plan, and he didn't need it to actually get his hands on the final two Bijuus. Heck, he had Kisame let Kirabi get away for no reason (he had Kisame go undercover to spy on the preparation of war so that he could win the war and get the two Bijuus, but to do so he allowed one of those Bijuus to get away because... ). I'm not even gonna bring up how his ability meant that he could have personally grabbed them without anyone stopping him well before that point. Orochimaru is considered a great villain because he was shown as an actual threat and only failing against the best. Madara comes off as "prefect" because he's good at turning a bad situation around, that and his trolling.


Every single action made was done by Obito in Madara's name. You said Nagato and Danzo got better build up as final villains? I'd agreed if it wasn't for the fact that Obito revealed himself as the leader of Akatsuki the same chapter we see Nagato/Pain's face revealed. So you already knew Pain wasn't going to be the final villain regardless of how good of a final villain he would have been. Danzo never came off as final villain material to me. He always seemed like a side villain. And while it's shocking on how quickly his reign of terror was, he's barely relevant to the story anymore.
Every buildup from Madara's name was put on Obito as Fakedara. Then when it's war time after every plan is near finished and complete, Kabutomaru unveils generic super boss Madara. He basically takes every buildup plot that was put on Fakedara and uses on himself. What actions? The only actions Obito took in his name was the Uchiha massacre and the war. And even after the reveal, it was still Nagato taking command and posing as the threat. Same with Danzo. Unlike Obito, they were portrayed as actual threats. Need I point out that the plan got nearly completed by Nagato, and the moment he was taken out of the picture, the plan didn't proceed by much til the real Madara took command.


The Izuna and who Tobi really was stuff, barely started until we learned Madara wasn't Madara. Obito as Fakedara still got build up as the final villain until then. No matter what argument is said, the villain Kishi was grooming as the final villain since after Deidara's death was scrapped and pushed aside for another, that just took all the stories and myths they were putting on Obito as Fakedara and put it on him, and this guy's been dead all the while Obito worked behind the scenes getting things together. It started right after the fight between Itachi and Sasuke. What you are claiming is true, but not for Obito. That's the case for Nagato, who was groomed as the final villain since the end of Part One and the one who actually did most of the work after the real Madara died. All Obito has ever done since his introduction as the villain has been to use the efforts of others for himself, which would be interesting in it's own way if it was actually meant to be taken that way.

Platinum fan.
22nd June 2014, 5:47 PM
What was interesting about him aside from the identity mystery? I know some people enjoyed the comical personality, but besides that he was like some Saturday morning villain, crackling in the background but not actually doing anything. Madara at least had his trolling and was enjoyable to watch in battle, and at least there was a reason he kept going easy on everyone else. But the war wasn't necessary. He didn't need the war to complete his plan, and he didn't need it to actually get his hands on the final two Bijuus. Heck, he had Kisame let Kirabi get away for no reason (he had Kisame go undercover to spy on the preparation of war so that he could win the war and get the two Bijuus, but to do so he allowed one of those Bijuus to get away because... ). I'm not even gonna bring up how his ability meant that he could have personally grabbed them without anyone stopping him well before that point. Orochimaru is considered a great villain because he was shown as an actual threat and only failing against the best. Madara comes off as "prefect" because he's good at turning a bad situation around, that and his trolling.

What actions? The only actions Obito took in his name was the Uchiha massacre and the war. And even after the reveal, it was still Nagato taking command and posing as the threat. Same with Danzo. Unlike Obito, they were portrayed as actual threats. Need I point out that the plan got nearly completed by Nagato, and the moment he was taken out of the picture, the plan didn't proceed by much til the real Madara took command.

It started right after the fight between Itachi and Sasuke. What you are claiming is true, but not for Obito. That's the case for Nagato, who was groomed as the final villain since the end of Part One and the one who actually did most of the work after the real Madara died. All Obito has ever done since his introduction as the villain has been to use the efforts of others for himself, which would be interesting in it's own way if it was actually meant to be taken that way.

What actions? Well there's being Pain/Nagato's boss and commanding him from the shadows, starting the war, gaining the alliance of Sasuke and through him and his team got Eight-Tails leg and got rid of Danzo. Even if Killer Bee escaped, he got the Eight-Tail leg, which proved to be useful in the end.

If you found Nagato, Danzo, Orochimaru, and real Madara better villains then Obito as fake Madara, then good for you. Heck, I think Pain would have been a great series final villain. Better then any of the emo Uchihas. But it really doesn't effect my argument at all, which is Obito as Fakedara was being built up as the main/final villain of the war. Unlike Pain/Nagato, Obito took orders from nobody and he was the one calling all the shots. And even with Kabutomaru's advantage over Obito, he still was cautious about their partnership. Everything about Madara's legacy was put on Obito until the real Madara got summoned. And by the time real Madara came everything was done. All that was left was to kill the enemy and that's really all Madara's done. Battle. Naruto and friends don't even know the real Madara, because he's so last minute. He's just a generic villain that popped up that they have to put down because he wants to take over the world. At least with Obito, he made it personal with Naruto and crew by gaining Sasuke on his side, and literally throwing it in Team Seven's face.


I'm trying not to make this long, because I'm just repeating myself. Up until Madara got summoned, Obito was built as Madara and the series main villain. Whether you find another villain more interesting or powerful, doesn't matter because Obito was still being built as the villain to take down to stop the war. All that changed when Madara came, and so Kishi took the main villain plot off Obito and put it on Madara. Now it's on Kaguya. And once again, I don't see why people should complain about Kaguya being the series final villain, when she's doing to Madara what he did to Obito as the fake Madara. That's my entire argument and nothing else matters.

Lorde
22nd June 2014, 10:54 PM
Hopefully Kaguya won't be talk no jutsu'd by Naruto and will actually be defeated without some sort of redemption.

LightningMaster95
24th June 2014, 11:54 PM
Hopefully Kaguya won't be talk no jutsu'd by Naruto and will actually be defeated without some sort of redemption.
honestly i dont tthink she will be talk no jutsu'd she is not much of a talker like nagato and obito who were pretty much asking for it, plus its seems naruto and sasuke are willing to seal her instead of talking

Lorde
25th June 2014, 8:53 AM
Lol @ the reverse Harem Jutsu; it was just an excuse for Kishi to draw naked men again. Anyway, at least Sakura's expressions were funny and Kaguya's dimensional warp ability seems ridiculous, but whatever.

lolipiece
25th June 2014, 9:09 AM
So basically, Naruto spends more time transforming into naked men than he does the Rasengan?

HMMM....

Dew Watatsumi
25th June 2014, 10:03 AM
So basically, Naruto spends more time transforming into naked men than he does the Rasengan?

HMMM....

Seems legit, Naruto does have to use another version to distract female opponents XD

DANdotW
25th June 2014, 10:41 AM
Haha, that Reverse Harem Jutsu was hilarious. Honestly, this was a fairly decent chapter.

Platinum fan.
25th June 2014, 3:29 PM
Oh mommy is not impressed. Mommy does not approve of Naruto's new jutsu. Zetsu's mommy didn't like it. But yeah. When Naruto was saying he developed this jutsu for awhile I was like "Then why haven't you used it up until this point? Were you literally waiting for the world to end to use this thing?" then Naruto uses it and it became clear why he never used it. Never had the right opponent for it. I guess this would be the go to move if Naruto ever fought Sakura, Ino, Tenten, or something. Didn't Konohamaru use this on Sakura way back after the Hidan/Kakuzu arc? Well whatever. I guess the funny thing about this jutsu is it actually worked to a degree. Obviously momma Kaguya didn't know how to respond to such a thing. And she still doesn't talk much. I like that about her. She knows she's a last minute villain so she's not trying to bore you with her details like Trolldara. She's just here to kill. Her ability to take you wherever she wants, I sense we're going to see Naruto and friends fight all over the world. To bad there's nobody left in the world to randomly see them. That would bring some entertainment to this fight. Pretty enjoyable chapter.


RIN IS ALWAYS WATCHING YOU! AND SHE'S NOT PLEASED THAT OBITO IS STILL ALIVE. SHE WANTS HIM DEAD LIKE HER SO SHE'LL HAVE COMPANY.

pwnswitchclik
25th June 2014, 9:47 PM
NaruJesus uses revive. It's super effective.

Lorde
25th June 2014, 10:46 PM
At least Obito's alive again, although he probably won't actually get to fight anymore. I wonder if Kaguya's jutsu literally teleports people to other dimensions or just other places in the ninja world.

uber gon
25th June 2014, 11:49 PM
So did we see Ninja Russia? Neat.

Shneak
26th June 2014, 12:48 AM
That was an unexpected jutsu. It actually worked as comedic relief cause Kaguya hasn't made this so deathly serious yet. I'm enjoying her warping jutsu and how she teleported herself and Naruto/Sasuke into a glacier. I don't know how she'll 'pick off' Sasuke but I could see Zetsu possessing him or something to initiate that final fight.

Profesco
26th June 2014, 10:45 PM
So basically, Naruto spends more time transforming into naked men than he does the Rasengan?

HMMM....

The NaruSasu shippers have always been winning the race, but this is like rocket roller skates for them. Though, I wonder why Naruto had to practice this naked man jutsu more than he practiced the Rasengan. I mean he could technically turn into a naked man by using the take-off-your-pants no jutsu.

Lorde
26th June 2014, 11:24 PM
That was an unexpected jutsu. It actually worked as comedic relief cause Kaguya hasn't made this so deathly serious yet. I'm enjoying her warping jutsu and how she teleported herself and Naruto/Sasuke into a glacier. I don't know how she'll 'pick off' Sasuke but I could see Zetsu possessing him or something to initiate that final fight.

I really hope Zetsu's role is done; I don't care for him now that Kaguya is potentially the final villain and I don't want him to become a threat also. :x

devilmonkey
27th June 2014, 2:17 AM
Oh man, what a chapter.

Firstly, I loved the use of the Reverse Sexy-no-Jutsu. Talk about a breath of fresh air. There hasn't been a good tension breaker since this whole Obito/Madara/Kaguya arc began, that seeing them take a minute to laugh while also reminding us where these heroes come from was perfect.
I mean, can you imagine the dialogue Naruto and Sasuke had to have had to use that strategy?
"Dude! Come on! It'll totally work Sasuke!"
"...fine. Maybe it will. Try it out. I'll help with my Rasengann"

Gotta say, though, Kaguya's ability is stupid. Just wandering in and out of different dimensions at will? Why not just teleport her hand into the body of one of the boys and stop their heart from beating? Seriously. There's going to be a point where the hax just becomes absurd.

Platinum fan.
29th June 2014, 4:10 PM
I really hope Zetsu's role is done; I don't care for him now that Kaguya is potentially the final villain and I don't want him to become a threat also. :x

I'm telling you, the final villain will either be the fruit Kaguya ate, or the tree the fruit came from. Who wouldn't want to see Naruto and friends fight a evil tree? That's the most epic fight, Naruto could ever have.

Locormus
1st July 2014, 3:27 AM
I'm telling you, the final villain will either be the fruit Kaguya ate, or the tree the fruit came from. Who wouldn't want to see Naruto and friends fight a evil tree? That's the most epic fight, Naruto could ever have.

Naruto and Sasuke vs. Evil Tree =....

Ninetales and Shiftry vs. Trevenant!!!

It's always going to be a tough call..

Ninetales sets Drought, Shiftry's speed doubles with Chlorophyll, and takes out Trevenant with Specs boosted Dark Pulse! Nah, Trevenant lives. Ninetales uses Fire Blast, but misses. Trevenant eats that Sitrus Berry, and vanishes into a different dimension. Ninetales and Shiftry both miss, and Trevenant 1HKO's Ninetales with Phantom Force... and restores more HP with a respawn Sitrus Berry.. Shiftry uses Dark Pulls yet again, and fails to KO with Trevenant with 10HP remaining. Trevenant uses Destiny Bond.

Shiftry is f.....ed..

Meanwhile, an Audino laughs from behind the shadows..

Lorde
2nd July 2014, 8:29 AM
The new chapter was boring; it's like nothing happened other than Obito willing to die and the Edo Hokage meeting the Sage of Six Paths, which wasn't as eventful as it should've been in my opinion.

pwnswitchclik
2nd July 2014, 12:44 PM
I usually prefer chapters like this one where there's a line of progression in which something happens in two different scenarios which in turn opens up a window for all sorts of things to happen, in one chapter. All in all I'd say this was a good chapter.

Platinum fan.
2nd July 2014, 1:58 PM
This chapter....hmm. I can't say I was totally thrilled by it. I mean as a Obito fan I'm somewhat glad he's still around for the final. Though he needs to join his girl in the great ninja beyond and be at peace. But overall I didn't love this chapter. The dead Hokage get to meet the Sage of Six Paths, and I was like, "whatever" no really that was my reaction. Also were they really going to Edo Tensei Trolldara back? Really? If he's dead be thankful for it. Don't bring the problem back, because then you'll be at square one again. But overall a pretty forgettable chapter for me. Sakura might be of some use coming up with Obito. I guess that's something to look forward to. And Obito is practically going to die to help the good guys. Overall I feel like I've seen this chapter before. Oh well. I hope the next one is better.

RIN IS ALWAYS WATCHING YOU!

Nodame
2nd July 2014, 6:27 PM
how the hell did Minato managed to cut down the trees with no arms? lol

LightningMaster95
2nd July 2014, 8:11 PM
why would they edo tensei madara again? he overpowered them the last couple of times, also narujesus helped save someone from certain death again.

my predictions for next week are
1-talking between the edo hokages and hagomoro about kaguya

2-obito syncing his kumai with kaguya dimension travel

3-hagomoro giving hashirama (maybe the other three hokages) his powers to go help naruto and sasuke

4-hagomoro tells the hokages how to stop edo tensei while he goes and fights kaguya
i believe one of these will happen next week and most likely it will be 1 and 4 but number 1 will be the main focus for next week

Lorde
2nd July 2014, 10:02 PM
I kind of hope that they do revive Madara; he got blown up without proper closure and he's bound to be redeemed anyway, that's Kishi's style. :x

Platinum fan.
2nd July 2014, 10:08 PM
I kind of hope that they do revive Madara; he got blown up without proper closure and he's bound to be redeemed anyway, that's Kishi's style. :x

You want Trolldara back? We finally got rid of him. Personally I don't think I even care enough about the character to see him get closure or redeemed. He'll probably come back after Kaguya is defeated...sadly. I never liked real Madara that much. The war was bad but when he came into the story it just got worse.

Shneak
2nd July 2014, 11:35 PM
The Hokages reviving Madara might be the dumbest thing to ever happen in this manga. Even if they use Tobi's weaker Edo Tensei it's still Sage Madara with all of the bells and whistles. But since the plot requires the Moon's Eye to be closed he's going to come back to do it. Also nobody dies until they're redeemed.

How the hell are Madara's legs even there? I thought Kaguya literally morphed into herself from his body.

Emperor Empoleon
3rd July 2014, 5:14 PM
Sasuke cut him in half after he snatched Kakashi's eye.

Still kinda silly though. lol.

Lorde
3rd July 2014, 9:28 PM
You want Trolldara back? We finally got rid of him. Personally I don't think I even care enough about the character to see him get closure or redeemed. He'll probably come back after Kaguya is defeated...sadly. I never liked real Madara that much. The war was bad but when he came into the story it just got worse.

He needs redemption though given Kishi's philosophy and maybe he'll know a way to stop the Infinite Tsukuyomi since he cast it in the first place.

dannydstk
4th July 2014, 2:34 AM
Did I miss something or did obito get his other sharingan back from madara?

Lorde
4th July 2014, 2:36 AM
Did I miss something or did obito get his other sharingan back from madara?

I think Naruto re-created it with his sage powers while he was reviving Obito before.

pwnswitchclik
4th July 2014, 10:44 AM
Did I miss something or did obito get his other sharingan back from madara?

While in Obito's Sharingan Dimension, Madara swapped Kakashi's Sharigan in him with Obito's Rinnegan, both regaining both their original eyes.

Platinum fan.
5th July 2014, 2:37 PM
Did I miss something or did obito get his other sharingan back from madara?

Naruto can regrow things. Just like he regrew Kakashi's old eye. He works miracles now. Remember when this series was about ninjas?

TsukiMirage
5th July 2014, 7:36 PM
Sorry for the late response, but my computer was acting up and I couldn't get online til today.


What actions? Well there's being Pain/Nagato's boss and commanding him from the shadows, starting the war, gaining the alliance of Sasuke and through him and his team got Eight-Tails leg and got rid of Danzo. Even if Killer Bee escaped, he got the Eight-Tail leg, which proved to be useful in the end. But all of Nagato's actions and all of Sasuke's actions were done for themselves. Obito benefitting is not the same as taking the actions himself. So while I was wrong for not including the declaration of war, the overall point remains.


If you found Nagato, Danzo, Orochimaru, and real Madara better villains then Obito as fake Madara, then good for you. Heck, I think Pain would have been a great series final villain. Better then any of the emo Uchihas. But it really doesn't effect my argument at all, which is Obito as Fakedara was being built up as the main/final villain of the war. Unlike Pain/Nagato, Obito took orders from nobody and he was the one calling all the shots. And even with Kabutomaru's advantage over Obito, he still was cautious about their partnership. Everything about Madara's legacy was put on Obito until the real Madara got summoned. And by the time real Madara came everything was done. All that was left was to kill the enemy and that's really all Madara's done. Battle. Naruto and friends don't even know the real Madara, because he's so last minute. He's just a generic villain that popped up that they have to put down because he wants to take over the world. At least with Obito, he made it personal with Naruto and crew by gaining Sasuke on his side, and literally throwing it in Team Seven's face. But he really wasn't. Sure, you could say that he seemed like the final villain during the summit arc, but not the war arc because shortly after it began we got reintroduced to Kabuto who took charge over him, which led to Madara. Obito took orders from a bunch of people. Even setting him taking orders from Madara aside, he was shown taking orders from both Itachi and Kabuto. And he was never really shown calling the shots: Nagato, Itachi, Sasuke, and Kabuto all had their own plans they were working towards. The only person who Obito was acting a boss to was Kisame, and that's still kind of confusing. And everything wasn't done, which was my point. After Nagato got killed and Obito took over, basically nothing got accomplished. If it hadn't been for Kabuto, Obito would have lost in a single day without getting any closer to completing the plan. So by that logic, Kabuto is more of the final villain then Obito. And note that Madara didn't just come in and take the prize, but also come in and clean up the mess that Obito made for the plan to actually get done. But things didn't become personal until after Obito was revealed. That's one of the major issues with that whole thing, that despite apparently having deep personal issues with Konoha, they never got mentioned or shown until near the end. And Madara represents a metaphysical threat, he's the living embodiment of everything that was wrong with the current system. Thus the reason he took center stage while Obito was sent off elsewhere with Kakashi.


I'm trying not to make this long, because I'm just repeating myself. Up until Madara got summoned, Obito was built as Madara and the series main villain. Whether you find another villain more interesting or powerful, doesn't matter because Obito was still being built as the villain to take down to stop the war. All that changed when Madara came, and so Kishi took the main villain plot off Obito and put it on Madara. Now it's on Kaguya. And once again, I don't see why people should complain about Kaguya being the series final villain, when she's doing to Madara what he did to Obito as the fake Madara. That's my entire argument and nothing else matters. I too will try to keep this short. What Kishi was building up was Madara, giving us his actual history and feats. Obito using his name was just that, a different character using his name. It was hinted at well before the war arc that Obito was not really Madara, and that couple with the fact that he didn't really accomplish anything himself, is why many people had no problem with that switch, especially when Madara acted like a final villain. The point is, we knew "Madara" wasn't Madara well before the real Madara was introduced, so he was expected to appear somehow/someway (quite a few people had guessed that Madara was the Edo Tensei Kabuto used to scare Obito). On the otherhand, Kaguya came out of nowhere, with no mention of her before the last dozen of chapters and no hints of anyone being behind Madara til now. Not to mention that her introduction has caused quite a few retcons that make little to no sense.

Platinum fan.
6th July 2014, 6:39 AM
Sorry for the late response, but my computer was acting up and I couldn't get online til today.

But all of Nagato's actions and all of Sasuke's actions were done for themselves. Obito benefitting is not the same as taking the actions himself. So while I was wrong for not including the declaration of war, the overall point remains.

But he really wasn't. Sure, you could say that he seemed like the final villain during the summit arc, but not the war arc because shortly after it began we got reintroduced to Kabuto who took charge over him, which led to Madara. Obito took orders from a bunch of people. Even setting him taking orders from Madara aside, he was shown taking orders from both Itachi and Kabuto. And he was never really shown calling the shots: Nagato, Itachi, Sasuke, and Kabuto all had their own plans they were working towards. The only person who Obito was acting a boss to was Kisame, and that's still kind of confusing. And everything wasn't done, which was my point. After Nagato got killed and Obito took over, basically nothing got accomplished. If it hadn't been for Kabuto, Obito would have lost in a single day without getting any closer to completing the plan. So by that logic, Kabuto is more of the final villain then Obito. And note that Madara didn't just come in and take the prize, but also come in and clean up the mess that Obito made for the plan to actually get done. But things didn't become personal until after Obito was revealed. That's one of the major issues with that whole thing, that despite apparently having deep personal issues with Konoha, they never got mentioned or shown until near the end. And Madara represents a metaphysical threat, he's the living embodiment of everything that was wrong with the current system. Thus the reason he took center stage while Obito was sent off elsewhere with Kakashi.

I too will try to keep this short. What Kishi was building up was Madara, giving us his actual history and feats. Obito using his name was just that, a different character using his name. It was hinted at well before the war arc that Obito was not really Madara, and that couple with the fact that he didn't really accomplish anything himself, is why many people had no problem with that switch, especially when Madara acted like a final villain. The point is, we knew "Madara" wasn't Madara well before the real Madara was introduced, so he was expected to appear somehow/someway (quite a few people had guessed that Madara was the Edo Tensei Kabuto used to scare Obito). On the otherhand, Kaguya came out of nowhere, with no mention of her before the last dozen of chapters and no hints of anyone being behind Madara til now. Not to mention that her introduction has caused quite a few retcons that make little to no sense.

I wasn't sure if I wanted to reply to this or not. This is a old argument, and I pretty much stand by everything I already said and I don't feel like repeating myself. I'm only addressing a few things. Obito used both Nagato and Sasuke. Nagato was always Obito's pawn. Pretty much everyone acknowledges it. Nagato only broke away when he revived Konoha's dead. Sasuke, whether you want to see it or not, helped Obito get a piece of Eight-Tails which ultimately helped the bad guys. It doesn't matter if Sasuke had his own agenda. Obito sent Sasuke on a mission and he got something out of it that proved important to the bad guys. And he even sent him after Danzo. Even if Sasuke was planning to kill Danzo himself, it was Obito who sent Sasuke directly at Danzo which resulted in Danzo's death. Sasuke was a useful tool to Obito.

Obito made it personal with Naruto and Team Seven long before his mask broke off. It got personal right after Naruto defeated Pain, and Obito went to talk with Naruto, Kakashi, and Yamato. He basically taunted Naruto that He had Sasuke, and it only got worse after the Danzo fight, when he appeared with Sasuke and told Team Seven he would send Sasuke to fight Naruto. As the fake Madara, Obito made this battle way more personal then the real Madara ever did. The only character real Madara has history with are two dead Hokage.


And none of this changes the fact that Obito was built up as the final villain. Who announced the Moons Eye Plan? Who started the war? Who turned Sasuke into a full villain after the Itachi battle? Obito as fake Madara. And all of Madara's legacy was built on Obito until the real Madara showed up and took it all for himself and he took the main villain spot away from Obito. It's no different then what Kaguya did to Madara. I see no real difference besides the name. At the end of the day you still have a villain who was not the villain Kishi was building up in the end.

justinjiaxinghu
9th July 2014, 9:01 AM
Sorry to break away from this discussion, but is the series on break this week?

lolipiece
9th July 2014, 10:30 AM
Can we go back to Madara, please?

Kaguya is yawn-inducingly boring. Why doesn't she say more than one line per chapter?

And why does Black Zetsu keep ordering her around?

You'd think that Kishi would stop his piss-poor treatment of his female characters at some point, but I guess not even the final final boss is immune to this.

Platinum fan.
9th July 2014, 3:13 PM
Personally I prefer Kaguya not talking. After near two years of Trolldara's endless, generic, boring overlord talk, this is a nice break. I like that Kaguya does not talk. We know what she wants, we know how strong she is, she doesn't need to talk. I don't mind Black Zetsu talking for her either. Anything over Trolldara. Ugh, I hope he never comes back.

As far as the new chapter goes, Kaguya's starting to look a little like bulked up Tayuya with those horns. How funny if they were related or something. I also liked how we got to see some classic Naruto action in this. This actually made this feel like a Naruto battle. I'm shocked. Overall the chapter was just more of the same really. Obito's teaming up with Sakura. Kishi's gotta find a way to make us believe Sakura is actually needed in this fight by having her and Obito try and save Sasuke. I think I know where this is leading. I'm bracing myself for it. I'm amazed Obito has lasted this long. Good for you, Obito. And Kakashi I guess is just going to sit this one out. Unlike Sakura, Kakashi isn't getting a forced push. Overall decent chapter.

RIN IS ALWAYS WATCHING YOU!

XanderCage
9th July 2014, 3:19 PM
So what does everyone think happened to Naruto? Did Kaguya kill a clone or has our main character really met his fate? Is it possible that there is so much chakra dispersed to the clones that one of them has now become the new Naruto? Interested to see where next chapter goes with this.

p96822
9th July 2014, 3:44 PM
Can we go back to Madara, please?

Kaguya is yawn-inducingly boring. Why doesn't she say more than one line per chapter?

And why does Black Zetsu keep ordering her around?

You'd think that Kishi would stop his piss-poor treatment of his female characters at some point, but I guess not even the final final boss is immune to this.

At least Kaguya is not consitenly talking and more fighting the main charather

uber gon
9th July 2014, 6:04 PM
So Kaguya got "trolled". Considering how she got here in the first place this is delightfully karmic.

Lorde
9th July 2014, 8:10 PM
Kaguya's a mediocre fighter who relies too much on dimensional warping imo. I liked that the Gobi at least got a cameo and that the Shadow Clone jutsu was used to its fullest extent.

Platinum fan.
9th July 2014, 8:26 PM
Kaguya's a mediocre fighter who relies too much on dimensional warping imo. I liked that the Gobi at least got a cameo and that the Shadow Clone jutsu was used to its fullest extent.

I think Kishi's just run out of how broken he can make characters. I mean Trolldara broke the scale alone on just how cheap a character can be. I bet there's literally nothing left for Kaguya. Unless she can like kill people by just thinking it. What more uber hax stuff can this series throw at us?

Shneak
10th July 2014, 2:00 AM
Can we go back to Madara, please?

Kaguya is yawn-inducingly boring. Why doesn't she say more than one line per chapter?


I completely agree. It just seems so slow and actionless even without her talking. God I even miss Sasuke.

I'm hoping for an improvement with Naruto taking her on strategically.

Lorde
10th July 2014, 2:19 AM
I think Kishi's just run out of how broken he can make characters. I mean Trolldara broke the scale alone on just how cheap a character can be. I bet there's literally nothing left for Kaguya. Unless she can like kill people by just thinking it. What more uber hax stuff can this series throw at us?

I agree. I wish Madara had been defeated without Kaguya's interruption. Kishi's just milking the war for all it's worth and it's beyond tiresome at this point.

Platinum fan.
10th July 2014, 7:34 PM
I agree. I wish Madara had been defeated without Kaguya's interruption. Kishi's just milking the war for all it's worth and it's beyond tiresome at this point.

I just don't want Madara to come back. Please just let that be the end of him. I hope he's dead, taken over, whatever. I don't see why he needs to be redeemed. He has zero connections with anyone in present day Konoha, so who's really going to care? Hashirama? He's already dead. What difference would that make?

lolipiece
10th July 2014, 7:55 PM
I just don't want Madara to come back. Please just let that be the end of him. I hope he's dead, taken over, whatever. I don't see why he needs to be redeemed. He has zero connections with anyone in present day Konoha, so who's really going to care? Hashirama? He's already dead. What difference would that make?

Sasuke.

They're both Indra's reincarnation.

Kazuki Mirai
10th July 2014, 8:15 PM
Sasuke.

They're both Indra's reincarnation.
By blood? Yeah. Personal level? None.

I think what Naruto did is that he made a WOOD CLONE. Which is regarded as the best Clone technique. o_O

Platinum fan.
11th July 2014, 9:35 PM
By blood? Yeah. Personal level? None.

I think what Naruto did is that he made a WOOD CLONE. Which is regarded as the best Clone technique. o_O

LOL, you beat me to the punch. I was going to say the exact same thing. It's Madara's lack of connections that make me not care if he's redeemed or not. Say what you want about Obito as Fakedara, but at least he had over 20 volumes of interactions with all the important characters over the course of part 2.

TsukiMirage
11th July 2014, 9:48 PM
Alright chapter, thought it still bothers me why clones can't be absorbed. Kaguya showing Kimimaro's bloodline was awesome though. I always loved that fighting style. Hopefully she shows more bone techniques.


I wasn't sure if I wanted to reply to this or not. This is a old argument, and I pretty much stand by everything I already said and I don't feel like repeating myself. I'm only addressing a few things. Obito used both Nagato and Sasuke. Nagato was always Obito's pawn. Pretty much everyone acknowledges it. Nagato only broke away when he revived Konoha's dead. Sasuke, whether you want to see it or not, helped Obito get a piece of Eight-Tails which ultimately helped the bad guys. It doesn't matter if Sasuke had his own agenda. Obito sent Sasuke on a mission and he got something out of it that proved important to the bad guys. And he even sent him after Danzo. Even if Sasuke was planning to kill Danzo himself, it was Obito who sent Sasuke directly at Danzo which resulted in Danzo's death. Sasuke was a useful tool to Obito. I never said Obito didn't use them, that's kind of the point. As I previously said, Obito never accomplished anything himself. It was always him taking advantage of other people's actions to succeed, which is a whole different thing then being the boss and calling the shots. The one time he was on his own, he didn't get anything achieved. And it was shown that Nagato wasn't as much of a pawn as Obito thought. Konan confirmed that they had their own plan going on.


Obito made it personal with Naruto and Team Seven long before his mask broke off. It got personal right after Naruto defeated Pain, and Obito went to talk with Naruto, Kakashi, and Yamato. He basically taunted Naruto that He had Sasuke, and it only got worse after the Danzo fight, when he appeared with Sasuke and told Team Seven he would send Sasuke to fight Naruto. As the fake Madara, Obito made this battle way more personal then the real Madara ever did. The only character real Madara has history with are two dead Hokage. How was that personal? I mean, did any of that fuel Naruto's desire to beat Obito? Did it drive him to go after Obito? Not at all. Naruto choose to master the Kyuubi specifically because Sasuke challenged him, and he entered the war to stop his friends from dying. Obito was an afterthought, literally. Naruto and Kirabi ran into him by accident. As mentioned, Madara is the embodiment of the current ninja system, which is why he's center stage and Obito was sent off to settle things with Kakashi.


And none of this changes the fact that Obito was built up as the final villain. Who announced the Moons Eye Plan? Who started the war? Who turned Sasuke into a full villain after the Itachi battle? Obito as fake Madara. And all of Madara's legacy was built on Obito until the real Madara showed up and took it all for himself and he took the main villain spot away from Obito. It's no different then what Kaguya did to Madara. I see no real difference besides the name. At the end of the day you still have a villain who was not the villain Kishi was building up in the end. For a single arc! You keep ignoring that as soon as the war arc began, Obito once again took second stage to Kabuto, well before Madara was revealed. And by the point of the summit, Madara's legacy wasn't on Obito anymore because it began before he was given the name and we were given several hints that Obito wasn't Madara several arcs before Madara was revealed. And no difference? Can you point to where it got implied that Kaguya would make an appearance? Can you point to where it was implied that Madara wasn't the mastermind? But most importantly, can you point to the reason why a new villain was needed? It was clear why Obito had to be replaced even before Madara came along. There's also the lack of any compelling personality, which is causing the plot to lag.

Also, Sasuke didn't turn full villain til the summit.

Akashin
11th July 2014, 10:06 PM
For a single arc! You keep ignoring that as soon as the war arc began, Obito once again took second stage to Kabuto, well before Madara was revealed. And by the point of the summit, Madara's legacy wasn't on Obito anymore because it began before he was given the name and we were given several hints that Obito wasn't Madara several arcs before Madara was revealed. And no difference? Can you point to where it got implied that Kaguya would make an appearance? Can you point to where it was implied that Madara wasn't the mastermind? But most importantly, can you point to the reason why a new villain was needed? It was clear why Obito had to be replaced even before Madara came along. There's also the lack of any compelling personality, which is causing the plot to lag.

Also, Sasuke didn't turn full villain til the summit.

Clear... to who? Until Madara came along and Obito was humanized, he was doing just fine as a prospective main antagonist. I never once got the feeling that anybody needed to be pulling his strings.

Also, arguing when Sasuke went full villain is rather moot; whether he went full villain while hunting Killer Bee or when he went to the summit, it was Obito revealing Itachi's history that gave him the push. That was the main point.

Lorde
11th July 2014, 10:19 PM
LOL, you beat me to the punch. I was going to say the exact same thing. It's Madara's lack of connections that make me not care if he's redeemed or not. Say what you want about Obito as Fakedara, but at least he had over 20 volumes of interactions with all the important characters over the course of part 2.

Obito may have had better interactions with the main characters, but Madara was the better villain in my opinion because he actually met the hype and surpassed it with his hax imo.

Platinum fan.
11th July 2014, 10:39 PM
Obito may have had better interactions with the main characters, but Madara was the better villain in my opinion because he actually met the hype and surpassed it with his hax imo.

So basically because he's a troll? I don't like that Tobi/Fakedara turned out to be Obito, I think that ruined the entire Madara character for me, but I stand by that Fakedara was way better villain material. They could have overpowered Obito too, and at one point they did. But Obito has one thing Madara never had. Connections. If Fakedara had been the real Madara and just got overpowered during his fight in the war I wouldn't have such a problem with this. The problem is the real Madara is so last minute and is literally a villain Naruto just met that he has to put down and this is suppose to be the final villain, over a guy who actually got proper buildup as a villain. He even needs Kabutomaru to tell him who Naruto is, because he's never seen him before. Madara is just that last generic super boss that appears after hours were spent building up another villain only to find out there's somebody else you have deal with. This is why I didn't mind Kaguya. The real Madara basically falls into the same category as Kaguya. So it's not like Kishi switched the series final villain before. I hope Madara stays dead or whatever. He's probably the character in the Naruto series I dislike most of all. The only good thing about him was the challenge he presented. Other then that he's a boring, generic, overlord and I am glad I don't have to read any more chapters of his speeches.

Edit: TsukiMirage, Sasuke turned full villain when he declared he was going to kill Konoha, that was right after Obito told him Itachi's story. Sasuke was full on villain mode and every action he did was a villain. Attacking Killer Bee was a international crime and got the Gokage together. Sasuke didn't turn villain at the summit, he already was a full on villain, no matter what the reason.

pwnswitchclik
15th July 2014, 2:07 PM
Yay we got a new chapter today! So they found Sasuke at the cost of their chakra. What's gonna be next?

Platinum fan.
15th July 2014, 3:48 PM
"Oh no! It's boiling acid!" Can anyone tell me who said that? Apparently there's random acid in the Naruto world. Either that or there was a mistranslation.

Anyway onto the chapter. I was not aware a chapter was coming out today. Shocker. Pretty boring chapter too. Kishi is really pushing Sakura into trying to make us believe she is actually useful and needed here. They even have Kakashi sit on the sidelines and have Sakura involved. And we get a Sakura/Sasuke shipping moment. I'll never understand the Sakura/Sasuke shipping. Never. It always came off as shallow to me. But whatever I don't want to understand it. Well she saved Sasuke, so I guess she's "helped" in the Kaguya fight. Kaguya is still a anti-chatter box, which I love. Black Zetsu feels more like the villain brain here. Whatever. Still better then Madara IMO. Overall a boring chapter. And the moral of the story is, if you sit on the sidelines for a long period of time doing nothing useful at all while everyone else around you is actually doing stuff, come the end of the series you'll get pushed to the moon and Kishi will try and put you on a pedestal with the two main stars of the story. Pretty Much.

RIN IS ALWAYS WATCHING YOU!

lolipiece
15th July 2014, 9:37 PM
Can we stop trying to push Sasuke x Sakura?

Sasuke is a goddamn terrible character. And this whole childish crush thing is really getting old.

Agility
15th July 2014, 11:13 PM
Can we stop trying to push Sasuke x Sakura?

Sasuke is a goddamn terrible character. And this whole childish crush thing is really getting old.

No, because contrary to your opinion there ARE people that like the ship. It's very popular, and until males can "rebuild" a clan together, Sakura's the only female remotely in the realm of capability. (Besides Karin. But her "love" is a hundred times more superficial and stupid than Sakura's.)

Jb
15th July 2014, 11:35 PM
this series should of ended with pain killing everyone.
why waste panel space on sakura and sasuke. they are literately the worst characters in the series. it seems pointless to build her up

Platinum fan.
16th July 2014, 2:12 PM
Whoa now! I think that's a little harsh. It's only pointless to build up Sakura now, because she hasn't done anything since her Sasori fight...that she could not have won without Chiyo, mind you. Sakura should have gotten built up through out part 2 like Naruto and Sasuke did. She, in theory mind you, should be the third most important character in the series. But that's not the case. Sakura feels totally expendable. And that's sad. And it feels way too late to try and make Sakura a important character now. Unlike Naruto and Sasuke, there are plenty of stronger shinobi then her in the war. Kakashi is still better then her. I certainly don't hate Sakura. IMO Sakura was robbed of her glory and a story. But at the same time it's too late to try and make her Naruto and Sasuke's equal now.

The funny thing is, Kishi is setting up Team Seven to be this legendary team like the Sannin. I bet all three get credit for beating Kaguya. Which will be funny because again, there are many shinobi better then Sakura. I still don't consider Sakura the best of the Konoha 11 even. Poor Sakura.

Nodame
16th July 2014, 3:00 PM
lol give me a break already, when it comes to Sakura, everybody looks for excuses.

Shneak
16th July 2014, 11:54 PM
I'm not sure what the point of Kaguya isolating Sasuke was if this is how it ends. Kishi must have really wanted Sakura to get some panel time. It didn't really pay off. Sakura only acted as a battery for Obito's bleeding eyes. And the shipping moment sucked cause Sakura should not be with Sasuke.

Next week's touting a huge announcement. Part 3 anyone?

Agility
17th July 2014, 1:40 AM
I'm not sure what the point of Kaguya isolating Sasuke was if this is how it ends. Kishi must have really wanted Sakura to get some panel time. It didn't really pay off. Sakura only acted as a battery for Obito's bleeding eyes. And the shipping moment sucked cause Sakura should not be with Sasuke.

Next week's touting a huge announcement. Part 3 anyone?

Why shouldn't she? The only other person she "likes" is Naruto. Again, the ship's one of the most popular in Naruto. Excluding his family, she's one of the only people Sasuke has ever given half of a rat's *** about. That's not much (and I do agree his character leaves loads to be desired, as does hers), but it's more than can be said of 90% of the remaining cast. I'd rather see them together merely off the fact it's been drilled down our throats for four hundred episodes.

Emperor Empoleon
17th July 2014, 2:21 AM
lol, Kaguya has no game.

All 3 Dojutsu at her disposal, but she couldn't see through a Clone feint? Literally Naruto's oldest trick. She hasn't even touched him in combat...Getting played by Naruto Rendan and Harem jutsu of all things. All she does is warp. Not even like Obito warping where he weaves fighting into it.

This is...Far from a battle with an all powerful goddess, honestly :/

Platinum fan.
17th July 2014, 2:26 PM
I'm not sure what the point of Kaguya isolating Sasuke was if this is how it ends. Kishi must have really wanted Sakura to get some panel time. It didn't really pay off. Sakura only acted as a battery for Obito's bleeding eyes. And the shipping moment sucked cause Sakura should not be with Sasuke.

Next week's touting a huge announcement. Part 3 anyone?

I think the entire point of Sasuke getting isolated was in fact so Sakura could get her participation credits in this fight. Kishi is determined to make us believe Sasuke and Naruto actually need Sakura in this fight. Even though Naruto's healing makes her and Tsunade obsolete. You know what, at this point it shouldn't matter. The series just isn't even trying anymore, so what difference does it make?

As far as the announcement. I joked about a Part 3 last year. I didn't think one was actually coming. I'd only want a Part 3 if Naruto had a shinobi squad of his own and he was the mentor leading a new generation of shinobi. With the whole "World Peace" thing he's preaching that will be interesting to see. But pretty much everyones story is over, minus Sasuke's kinda. And Orochimaru's back but compared to Naruto or Sasuke, he's nothing.

Personally I still want my Team Minato spinoff. I know it has no chance of ever happening, but that's what I would want. Even if it was short like 4-5 volumes.

Lorde
18th July 2014, 7:45 PM
Ironically, the Sakura moments interested me a bit, although it's bittersweet now that Sasuke's been saved and Sakura's role is practically redundant now imo. Sigh, decent chapter.

Nodame
18th July 2014, 9:52 PM
And the shipping moment sucked cause Sakura should not be with Sasuke.

Next week's touting a huge announcement. Part 3 anyone?

She won't end up with Sasuke lol. I'm glad to see Sakura got to be useful this chapter, and even if there was some SasuSaku in the chapter, I doubt it effects the overall flow of the story. I think of it as more like keeping the fans happy and trolling us all at the same time. I wonder if Sasuke's interaction with Sakura is meant to make him care more for Team 7 as a whole instead of just seeing them as tools?

Also, I'm gonna guess the announcement is about the next movie.

Lorde
20th July 2014, 8:45 PM
Maybe Kishi will announce/confirm that the manga will end soon? The war arc can't last much longer imo, so maybe we'll finally get concrete info and a timeline for when Kishi plans on finishing it.

Platinum fan.
20th July 2014, 9:23 PM
I wonder what I'll do when Naruto ends? This was the top manga I always kept up with. With it gone I'll have to find a new manga series. Perhaps I should begin the searching process.

Nodame
20th July 2014, 9:41 PM
I will still pray for a part 3 because I just can't live without Naruto. I'm obsessed with the characters, story, everything..

Pokegirl Fan~
20th July 2014, 9:43 PM
I will still pray for a part 3 because I just can't live without Naruto. I'm obsessed with the characters, story, everything..

I doubt there is going to be a part 3, everything seems like it's being wrapped up at this point so it would feel irrelevant for another part imo.

Red and Blue
20th July 2014, 9:46 PM
Everything has to come to an end eventually, and it just happens to be naruto's time. I think the fans who are hoping for part 3 are just setting themselves up for disappointment.

Nodame
20th July 2014, 9:48 PM
I doubt there is going to be a part 3, everything seems like it's being wrapped up at this point so it would feel irrelevant for another part imo.

Yeah I know. I guess I will get over it, I will just enjoy it in the mean time hehe :p

Pokegirl Fan~
20th July 2014, 9:49 PM
I do want to see that supposed promise of Naruto vs Sasuke in a final fight, but it seems like it won't happen now, or it won't be as good as it would have been if Sasuke was still evil.

Lorde
20th July 2014, 9:51 PM
Everything has to come to an end eventually, and it just happens to be naruto's time. I think the fans who are hoping for part 3 are just setting themselves up for disappointment.

I wouldn't be able to handle a Part 3 if it means that Kishi has to elevate the amount of hax that Naruto and Sasuke and the villains use. The power creep was bad enough in Part 2.

Platinum fan.
20th July 2014, 10:03 PM
I don't see how anyone could top Madara/Trolldara Uchiha in terms of cheap factor and uber brokenness. The only villains who I could see topping Madara, are new enemies that are immune to Sharigan and all ninjutsu 100% and use a different means of power besides Chakra, and therefore are not even ninjas. And that's so unlikely.

I'm personally ready for the Naruto series to end. It's had a good run up until the end of the Pain arc at least. I'd be tickled with the idea of a Part 3, but I don't need one. I want spinoff titles if anything.

TsukiMirage
20th July 2014, 11:48 PM
Alright chapter. Glad we finally got an explanation of Sasuke's technique. So it does appear that Kaguya's realms are based on the advanced natures.


Clear... to who? Until Madara came along and Obito was humanized, he was doing just fine as a prospective main antagonist. I never once got the feeling that anybody needed to be pulling his strings. Really? I can remember a whole bunch of people giving Obito crap on MH and NB over his actions during the summit arc and early part of the war arc, especially when it was shown how easily his own forces were handled by the Alliance or how in-control Kabuto was.


Also, arguing when Sasuke went full villain is rather moot; whether he went full villain while hunting Killer Bee or when he went to the summit, it was Obito revealing Itachi's history that gave him the push. That was the main point. But up until the summit, it wasn't clear whether Sasuke was actually gonna be a villain or just continue his anti-hero thing.


Sasuke turned full villain when he declared he was going to kill Konoha, that was right after Obito told him Itachi's story. Sasuke was full on villain mode and every action he did was a villain. Attacking Killer Bee was a international crime and got the Gokage together. Sasuke didn't turn villain at the summit, he already was a full on villain, no matter what the reason. And the very next chapter had him clarifying that he was only going after the council. Attacking Kirabi wasn't much different then attacking Naruto several arcs before, when Sasuke was still considered an anti-hero. One of the key difference between the summit and before is that before Sasuke avoided killing anyone, especially those not involved. But at the summit, he not only went out of his way to purposely kill someone, he also targeted "innocent" people. The other is that despite his actions before, he still protected his comrades, whereas at the summit, he left and even tried to kill one. Thus the reason he was considered a villain upon that point.

Platinum fan.
21st July 2014, 12:24 AM
Alright chapter. Glad we finally got an explanation of Sasuke's technique. So it does appear that Kaguya's realms are based on the advanced natures.

Really? I can remember a whole bunch of people giving Obito crap on MH and NB over his actions during the summit arc and early part of the war arc, especially when it was shown how easily his own forces were handled by the Alliance or how in-control Kabuto was.

But up until the summit, it wasn't clear whether Sasuke was actually gonna be a villain or just continue his anti-hero thing.

And the very next chapter had him clarifying that he was only going after the council. Attacking Kirabi wasn't much different then attacking Naruto several arcs before, when Sasuke was still considered an anti-hero. One of the key difference between the summit and before is that before Sasuke avoided killing anyone, especially those not involved. But at the summit, he not only went out of his way to purposely kill someone, he also targeted "innocent" people. The other is that despite his actions before, he still protected his comrades, whereas at the summit, he left and even tried to kill one. Thus the reason he was considered a villain upon that point.

First of all, Sasuke or one of team Baka presumed to have killed a cloud ninja named Jay who was tailing them after he kidnapped what they all thought was Killer Bee. So this whole, Sasuke never killed anyone before the summit thing, isn't true. That little rule of Sasuke's stopped after the Itachi fight. Sasuke capturing Killer Bee got the Gokage together because taking a Biju was a big deal and a crime as stated in the Gokage summit. The other Gokage just didn't want to admit it. Sasuke could have put Konoha at war with Raikage's nation. Also Sasuke told Obito/Fakedara he planned on killing everyone in Konoha. He was just saying he was going to kill the council in front of his teammates. His plan was always to kill everyone in Konoha. If you need proof then check out volume 44 and 45. Sasuke was a villain the minute he said he was going to kill Konoha, because that included the innocents as well. I don't know why you're trying to argue the point, but if you don't want to see it, then this is where the debate for me is probably ending. Just see volume 44 and 45.

Edit: Now to be fair, we really don't know if Sasuke and team Baka killed that cloud ninja, though it sure looked like he's dead. Maybe he's in a genjutsu and we just never see him again. I guess that minor characters fate is something up in the air. But whether or not Sasuke killed him or not, it doesn't change Sasuke's stance on being a villain at this point, because his goal is to kill a entire village, including women and children, Anakin Skywalker style.

LightningMaster95
21st July 2014, 4:07 AM
ok so the movie is going to air on oct 17 to celebrate the 15 year anniversary
and manga is about to end
http://kyojin-tan.tumblr.com/post/92255710613/shonen-jump-preview-there-will-be-a-new-movie-of

pwnswitchclik
21st July 2014, 4:16 PM
ok so the movie is going to air on oct 17 to celebrate the 15 year anniversary
and manga is about to end
http://kyojin-tan.tumblr.com/post/92255710613/shonen-jump-preview-there-will-be-a-new-movie-of

I don't want to sound stupid, but is the manga going to end at the same time the movie is released?

Shadow Lucario
21st July 2014, 5:32 PM
Edit: Now to be fair, we really don't know if Sasuke and team Baka killed that cloud ninja, though it sure looked like he's dead. Maybe he's in a genjutsu and we just never see him again. I guess that minor characters fate is something up in the air. But whether or not Sasuke killed him or not, it doesn't change Sasuke's stance on being a villain at this point, because his goal is to kill a entire village, including women and children, Anakin Skywalker style.

I don't think he was dead. At that point it was assumed that Sasuke used Tsukuyomi or some other Genjutsu to break his will and you can't kill anyone with a Genjutsu, no matter how powerful it is.

Platinum fan.
21st July 2014, 6:25 PM
I don't think he was dead. At that point it was assumed that Sasuke used Tsukuyomi or some other Genjutsu to break his will and you can't kill anyone with a Genjutsu, no matter how powerful it is.

It was never stated or assumed he was in genjutsu, nor is there any hints at it. The blood on him and the lack of any confirmation of genjutsu being used could easily imply he's dead. Unless he shows up again, we'll never know. Not that it changes the point I was arguing anyway, whether he lived or died.

Lorde
21st July 2014, 8:25 PM
ok so the movie is going to air on oct 17 to celebrate the 15 year anniversary
and manga is about to end
http://kyojin-tan.tumblr.com/post/92255710613/shonen-jump-preview-there-will-be-a-new-movie-of

So there's still no actual timeline for when it'll end, just another generic "the manga will end soon" statement that we're used to from Kishi. Sigh.

LightningMaster95
21st July 2014, 9:35 PM
I don't want to sound stupid, but is the manga going to end at the same time the movie is released?

i believe the movie might premiere about a month before or after the manga ends

Platinum fan.
21st July 2014, 9:42 PM
So is Naruto going to be ending this year? Hard to believe in a sense. I'm not interested in the movie though. No thank you.

Red and Blue
21st July 2014, 10:39 PM
So is Naruto going to be ending this year? Hard to believe in a sense. I'm not interested in the movie though. No thank you.

I predict either this year or sometime in 2015. Depends on how long Kishimoto will drag out the final battle with Kaguya and the length of the aftermath arc.

Nodame
21st July 2014, 10:44 PM
I think Kishi will reveal Kakashi's face in the movie. He said so in an interview. As a Kakashi fan, I'm excited.

Lorde
21st July 2014, 10:45 PM
So is Naruto going to be ending this year? Hard to believe in a sense. I'm not interested in the movie though. No thank you.

The movies are all dreadful imo, so I agree. The ending of the manga has me more excited; finally, we may see Naruto and Sasuke's final battle.

Nodame
21st July 2014, 10:56 PM
The movies are all dreadful imo, so I agree. The ending of the manga has me more excited; finally, we may see Naruto and Sasuke's final battle.

Road to Ninja was a little different from the previous movies. Its almost like a possible subplot of the main story. And the konoha squads had alternate personalities which was funny IMO.

Platinum fan.
22nd July 2014, 12:45 AM
None of the Naruto movies interest me. The one where they get different personalities just sounds like a fanfic more then a movie, to be honest. It's fine for some, but I'm not really interested in the concept that much. I'm sure all the more popular characters in the Naruto series had personality tweaks to play "what if" with their fanbase.

As far as Kakashi's face goes, if they reveal it in the movie but never the manga, I will not consider it canon at all. I also don't think Kakashi needs his face shown. He's the only character in Naruto that still acts like a ninja. Let him stay that way.

lolipiece
22nd July 2014, 12:51 AM
I think Kishi will reveal Kakashi's face in the movie. He said so in an interview. As a Kakashi fan, I'm excited.

Meh. If he wanted to reveal Kakashi's face, he should've done so ages ago.

Platinum fan.
22nd July 2014, 9:39 PM
I really don't want them to reveal Kakashi's face. It adds the ninja element to the character of not revealing ones identity. I'm telling you, Kakashi came out of the womb with that mask on his face.

Lorde
22nd July 2014, 10:52 PM
I've never cared for Kakashi's face tbh, but Kishi may as well show it to put an end to the mystery even if Kakashi's face is completely normal. :p

Nodame
23rd July 2014, 12:21 AM
He's the only character in Naruto that still acts like a ninja. Let him stay that way.

And Sakura too. She doesn't need handouts like Naruto and Sasuke. She's self made.

Platinum fan.
23rd July 2014, 12:29 AM
And Sakura too. She doesn't need handouts like Naruto and Sasuke. She's self made.

No, Sakura just channels forehead energy for years and this magically elevates her to the point where she's Tsunade Junior. Meaning she can probably get cut in half and not die. Nothing bad about that, but she's certainly not a ninja. Kakashi is the only Team 7 member who's still a ninja by definition.

Nodame
23rd July 2014, 12:48 AM
No, Sakura just channels forehead energy for years and this magically elevates her to the point where she's Tsunade Junior. Meaning she can probably get cut in half and not die. Nothing bad about that, but she's certainly not a ninja. Kakashi is the only Team 7 member who's still a ninja by definition.
One of the main points of her character is being exceptionally powerful without being born into a powerful clan or have any special abilities of her own, a normal ninja, you could at least acknowledge that. Sakura, who is keeping up with them and keeping them alive and keeping them going and refusing to let them break. She doesn’t need special spirits and fate and destiny to be all that she can be. ( I'm not arguing or anything hehe :p)

Lorde
23rd July 2014, 12:54 AM
No, Sakura just channels forehead energy for years and this magically elevates her to the point where she's Tsunade Junior. Meaning she can probably get cut in half and not die. Nothing bad about that, but she's certainly not a ninja. Kakashi is the only Team 7 member who's still a ninja by definition.

Her resilience almost means nothing when compared to characters like Naruto and Sasuke though, sadly. She may be able to heal wounds, but she's got very few offensive abilities whereas the other two have many. Kakashi is the most diverse character in terms of battle style, but he's not a very interesting character imo.

Platinum fan.
23rd July 2014, 1:02 AM
Her resilience almost means nothing when compared to characters like Naruto and Sasuke though, sadly. She may be able to heal wounds, but she's got very few offensive abilities whereas the other two have many. Kakashi is the most diverse character in terms of battle style, but he's not a very interesting character imo.

*Gasps in horror* Lorde! How could you say such a thing? Kakashi is the cooliest of the cool shinobi. Sure he doesn't have some overrated Biju or a even more overrated and downright whiny clan, but he has managed to stay this long in the game, with low chakra levels, a inferior Sharingan to the Uchihas (Yes it is inferior to Sasuke, Itachi, and Madara) and nothing but good old shinobi smarts and skills. Kakashi is one of the few people in the Naruto universe that's actually a ninja. Besides him all the members of Team Seven are either members of the Super Freak Club or they serve the drinks in the Super Freak Club. Kakashi was very interesting when he got the focus.

Nodame
23rd July 2014, 1:16 AM
It's Kakashi time!

I cant think of a reason not to like Kakashi. He's loveable, cool, funny but dependable and serious when its necessary. He's one of the few carefree characters in the series who takes everything so gently. Thats what I like about him. I'm not so picky with fighting style, as long as he's fun, I'm satisfied.

Platinum fan.
23rd July 2014, 1:43 AM
I honestly still can't believe Kakashi has lasted this long. After the Pain arc, I thought for sure they'd retire the character. I'm glad he's still around but I'm shocked. So many overpowered Super Freaks have come into the series that one would think Kakashi and his old school shinobi style would be out classed by these omega powered titans known as the jinchuuriki, dead hokage, and the most haxxed powers of all existence. The whiny Uchiha Clan and all the drama they bring to the world. The fact that Kakashi is still mortal and lasted this long is outstanding. The man deserves great respect.

Nodame
23rd July 2014, 2:49 AM
The only thing I don't like about Kakashi is that he has a way bigger role in Sasuke's life than Naruto. The way I see it, Sasuke is to Kakashi what Kakashi was to Minato. I don't get why Kakashi let Naruto persuade him so easy into letting him handle Sasuke, especially since he blames himself for the way Sasuke was, which is true to some extent. Again I'm not too picky, if I’d look for perfection, I wouldn’t have been a Sakura fan today.

Locormus
23rd July 2014, 3:36 AM
The only thing I don't like about Kakashi is that he has a way bigger role in Sasuke's life than Naruto. The way I see it, Sasuke is to Kakashi what Kakashi was to Minato. I don't get why Kakashi let Naruto persuade him so easy into letting him handle Sasuke, especially since he blames himself for the way Sasuke was, which is true to some extent. Again I'm not too picky, if I’d look for perfection, I wouldn’t have been a Sakura fan today.

Brave...

So... Sasuke's butt has been saved in the previous chapter.. Lets take into account that it took literally no effort on Kaguya's part to pull that one off and that it nearly left Sasuke, Sakura and Obito in a hopeless situation. Stranded in a different dimension with no means of leaving..

Yeah.. So who's to say that she simply won't do it again? Isn't what she's doing the exact same as Sub/Seeding? Putting Sasuke in the different dimension is the "sub", while the Seeding is essentially forcing Naruto/Sakura/Obito/Kakashi to focus their assault on getting the sub broken (Sasuke back in the dimension), which leaves them with less and less chakra over the course of the fight.. Isn't it the point in sub/seeding that you keep on producing subs? Sasuke is coming back, but Obito and Sakura are spent. Simply "sub" again and Sasuke can't come back. It's that simple. Easy win. BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOO...

Lorde
23rd July 2014, 3:39 AM
*Gasps in horror* Lorde! How could you say such a thing? Kakashi is the cooliest of the cool shinobi. Sure he doesn't have some overrated Biju or a even more overrated and downright whiny clan, but he has managed to stay this long in the game, with low chakra levels, a inferior Sharingan to the Uchihas (Yes it is inferior to Sasuke, Itachi, and Madara) and nothing but good old shinobi smarts and skills. Kakashi is one of the few people in the Naruto universe that's actually a ninja. Besides him all the members of Team Seven are either members of the Super Freak Club or they serve the drinks in the Super Freak Club. Kakashi was very interesting when he got the focus.

I don't stan for characters that have almost zero personality, sadly. Granted, the same could be said about several characters, but Kakashi in general is boring when he's not in action in my opinion and even then he's average.

Nodame
23rd July 2014, 4:04 AM
Brave...

So... Sasuke's butt has been saved in the previous chapter.. Lets take into account that it took literally no effort on Kaguya's part to pull that one off and that it nearly left Sasuke, Sakura and Obito in a hopeless situation. Stranded in a different dimension with no means of leaving..

Yeah.. So who's to say that she simply won't do it again? Isn't what she's doing the exact same as Sub/Seeding? Putting Sasuke in the different dimension is the "sub", while the Seeding is essentially forcing Naruto/Sakura/Obito/Kakashi to focus their assault on getting the sub broken (Sasuke back in the dimension), which leaves them with less and less chakra over the course of the fight.. Isn't it the point in sub/seeding that you keep on producing subs? Sasuke is coming back, but Obito and Sakura are spent. Simply "sub" again and Sasuke can't come back. It's that simple. Easy win. BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOO...

because Kishi wanted this chapter to be a Sakura-centric with her being badass, strong and determined, which unfortunately is rare these days.

LightningMaster95
23rd July 2014, 6:14 AM
As far as Kakashi's face goes, if they reveal it in the movie but never the manga, I will not consider it canon at all. I also don't think Kakashi needs his face shown. He's the only character in Naruto that still acts like a ninja. Let him stay that way.
technically it would be canon since kishimoto would be the one to draw his face and most likely write the script for the movie

lolipiece
23rd July 2014, 9:42 AM
The last few Naruto color pages is basically just Kishi stating that he wishes he didn't make a ninja manga.

RIP, Obito I guess.

JD
23rd July 2014, 10:19 AM
I really enjoyed the western color page it looked really nice..also Obito's still talking about Rin like usual I thought he was done with that.

Platinum fan.
23rd July 2014, 3:27 PM
Obito will never be done with Rin. Not till they finally do the nasty jutsu together. It's the only thing going for him.

Anyway onto the chapter, how dare Kishi try to imply that Kakashi is the weakest of Team Seven now! How dare he?! Kakashi is the cooliest of cool shinobi! I mean sure Naruto surpassed him ages ago and so did Sasuke for that matter. But come on! Kakashi is still the top NINJA in the shinobi world! That aside the chapter was better then the last. I did like how we saw classic Naruto fooling the enemy with a clone and the enemies surprised/frustrated expression. Reminded me of the Neji fight years ago. I guess Black Zetsu truly is the final villain calling the shots. I still prefer him over Trolldara so I am not complaining. At least Zetsu at least shows some concern over his opponents. And I also like that Kaguya seems to have limits at least in gravity. I bet if that was Trolldara he'd have shrugged it off like he's done 99% of everything else.


The final had me chuckling because it was Kakashi defending Sasuke and Obito defending Naruto. To anyone who says Kakashi played favorites...you're right. I admit I thought it was Sakura who grabbed their hands. It wasn't. I actually think the manga foreshadowed this event awhile ago during a random flashback with Obito when Trolldara was tearing him down. So it didn't come out of nowhere, this was actually set up. Overall decent chapter. I liked it more then last weeks. Oh yeah and the Dead Hokage were here too. They said something I think.

THIS CHAPTER PROVED ONCE AND FOR ALL THAT RIN IS ALWAYS WATCHING YOU! UNTIL SHE WANTS YOU DEAD.

LightningMaster95
23rd July 2014, 3:47 PM
couldnt obito just have finally activated his susanno to protect everyone, who knows maybe kishi will give kakashi both sharingans(for a little bit) just to activate it and help out

Red and Blue
23rd July 2014, 5:43 PM
Pretty meh chapter overall. But hey, movie news!!!!!

http://www.saiyanisland.com/2014/07/the-last-naruto-the-movie-naruto-movie-10/

Lorde
23rd July 2014, 7:57 PM
couldnt obito just have finally activated his susanno to protect everyone, who knows maybe kishi will give kakashi both sharingans(for a little bit) just to activate it and help out

Sadly, he's never even implied that he can use Susano'o; his MS apparently doesn't have that ability. I'm glad Obito sacrificed himself for Kakashi again. The chapter was boring in general though.

Red and Blue
23rd July 2014, 11:56 PM
The article I posted earlier said that the tenth movie will the be beginning of the "Naruto: new era opening project." Maybe there actually will be a part 3.

lolipiece
24th July 2014, 1:59 AM
The article I posted earlier said that the tenth movie will the be beginning of the "Naruto: new era opening project." Maybe there actually will be a part 3.

NO.

Unless it's about his son, I don't see a point to that.

Shneak
24th July 2014, 3:25 AM
Road to Ninja was two years ago? I didn't even think it was a year ago. It looks like it involves a time-skip though so maybe the manga is ending before the end of the year.

I'm annoyed with Obito's death. I guess it's appropriate that he saved Kakashi and Naruto at once but he defied gravity when Naruto, Sasuke AND Kaguya couldn't. It doesn't make a lot of sense and if this is Kaguya trying then she's not that powerful.

Lorde
24th July 2014, 3:30 AM
The article I posted earlier said that the tenth movie will the be beginning of the "Naruto: new era opening project." Maybe there actually will be a part 3.

I read that it's the last Naruto movie, so I doubt a Part 3 is happening, especially since the manga has covered everything at this point. :x

Red and Blue
24th July 2014, 3:38 AM
If it's not part 3, than what is exactly the "New Opening Era" project?

LightningMaster95
24th July 2014, 4:05 AM
I read that it's the last Naruto movie, so I doubt a Part 3 is happening, especially since the manga has covered everything at this point. :x
i think people are reading too much into the title "The Last: Naruto the Movie" i doubt it will be the last one just like DBZ, the companies that deal with naruto will not let it die after kishi is done with the manga and just milk it for every cent it has left. maybe we get to see the naruto and sasuke fight in the movie that we probably wont get in the manga

@red and blue the "new opening era project" is just the name of the 15 year anniversary celebration theyre gonna have for the manga

Platinum fan.
24th July 2014, 7:34 PM
I doubt they'll be a part 3. Nearly everything is complete. I don't know what will happen with Orochimaru though. His return feels downright pointless now. Even if he got a fight, there's nothing he could do to Naruto and Sasuke, even without their six paths powerups. So there's nothing beyond Kaguya. A Naruto vs Sasuke fight is unlikely to happen unless they fight over the Hokage seat. Which is dumb. The idea of Sasuke as Hokage still feels like a complete joke, where kishi's just going to jump out and say "gotcha!"

Lorde
24th July 2014, 9:27 PM
Naruto vs. Sasuke still needs to happen, which is why I want this war arc over with already. I'd rather see those two fight again than see more of Kaguya's lameness.

TsukiMirage
24th July 2014, 10:18 PM
That was a strange chapter. Really didn't see why either Obito or Kakashi would have to sacrifice themselves when both Naruto and Sasuke had the means of saving themselves, using clones and Susanoo respectively. Let's not even get into the fact that she could have just dropped them in the acid realm and that would have likely killed them all off without her having to do anything. And Obito's obsession with Rin is still creepy.


First of all, Sasuke or one of team Baka presumed to have killed a cloud ninja named Jay who was tailing them after he kidnapped what they all thought was Killer Bee. So this whole, Sasuke never killed anyone before the summit thing, isn't true. That little rule of Sasuke's stopped after the Itachi fight. Sasuke capturing Killer Bee got the Gokage together because taking a Biju was a big deal and a crime as stated in the Gokage summit. The other Gokage just didn't want to admit it. Sasuke could have put Konoha at war with Raikage's nation. Also Sasuke told Obito/Fakedara he planned on killing everyone in Konoha. He was just saying he was going to kill the council in front of his teammates. His plan was always to kill everyone in Konoha. If you need proof then check out volume 44 and 45. Sasuke was a villain the minute he said he was going to kill Konoha, because that included the innocents as well. I don't know why you're trying to argue the point, but if you don't want to see it, then this is where the debate for me is probably ending. Just see volume 44 and 45.

Edit: Now to be fair, we really don't know if Sasuke and team Baka killed that cloud ninja, though it sure looked like he's dead. Maybe he's in a genjutsu and we just never see him again. I guess that minor characters fate is something up in the air. But whether or not Sasuke killed him or not, it doesn't change Sasuke's stance on being a villain at this point, because his goal is to kill a entire village, including women and children, Anakin Skywalker style. First off, we never got any confirmation on Jay being killed or who did it, as oppose to literally seeing Sasuke go kill crazy at the summit to the point that Suigetsu called him out on it. Seems off for Sasuke to kill him when he had no problem hours before allowing that other Kumo ninja to live. Secondly, the summit was called not because a Bijuu was taken, but because someone who was actually cared for was taken. Ee wanted revenge for his brother, thus the complete lack of mention of Yugito and the sudden drop in concern about Sasuke once Kirabi was revealed to be alive. And Sasuke was already a declared missingnin, even before Danzo got into office. There wouldn't have been any chance of war had it not been for Naruto declaring Sasuke was still apart of the village. Third, I was mistaken, it was the chapter after the next (404), but when asked by Obito what he had planned, Sasuke stated taking out the top was it. It was then that Kisame mentioned that the rest of Konoha would shield them. I don't see why you think Sasuke was being more honest with Obito then his own teammates, especially given his actions up to and after that point. Aside from the aforementioned Kumo ninja, risking his life and saving his teammates while remembering his old team, and his attempt to escape Akatsuki, you would note how he decided to go after Danzo instead of a village full of weaken and easy targets. And I'm guessing by telling me to see volume 44 and 45 (which is hard given that I read online and thus there aren't any volumes) you mean chp 416? But even in that chapter, he wasn't automatically killing the innocent. He states that if someone opposes his belief, he would kill their family and then see how they felt about it then. Sure that's bad, but it's not anything new. Sasuke threw that same line of reasoning out at Kakashi back in Part One. It's a stance he already held, so unless you're saying he was a villain since that point, it would still be him being an anti-hero.

I would point out that Nagato, Obito, and Itachi are all currently seen as anti-heroes, despite both of them actually killing innocent people, including children. Not to mention the Bijuus. In a world where heroes willingly preform assassination, the death of innocents is a small factor in judging who's a villain or not. Danzo never killed anyone on-screen, and Madara is hazy, but it's clear they both are seen as villains.

Platinum fan.
24th July 2014, 10:42 PM
That was a strange chapter. Really didn't see why either Obito or Kakashi would have to sacrifice themselves when both Naruto and Sasuke had the means of saving themselves, using clones and Susanoo respectively. Let's not even get into the fact that she could have just dropped them in the acid realm and that would have likely killed them all off without her having to do anything. And Obito's obsession with Rin is still creepy.

First off, we never got any confirmation on Jay being killed or who did it, as oppose to literally seeing Sasuke go kill crazy at the summit to the point that Suigetsu called him out on it. Seems off for Sasuke to kill him when he had no problem hours before allowing that other Kumo ninja to live. Secondly, the summit was called not because a Bijuu was taken, but because someone who was actually cared for was taken. Ee wanted revenge for his brother, thus the complete lack of mention of Yugito and the sudden drop in concern about Sasuke once Kirabi was revealed to be alive. And Sasuke was already a declared missingnin, even before Danzo got into office. There wouldn't have been any chance of war had it not been for Naruto declaring Sasuke was still apart of the village. Third, I was mistaken, it was the chapter after the next (404), but when asked by Obito what he had planned, Sasuke stated taking out the top was it. It was then that Kisame mentioned that the rest of Konoha would shield them. I don't see why you think Sasuke was being more honest with Obito then his own teammates, especially given his actions up to and after that point. Aside from the aforementioned Kumo ninja, risking his life and saving his teammates while remembering his old team, and his attempt to escape Akatsuki, you would note how he decided to go after Danzo instead of a village full of weaken and easy targets. And I'm guessing by telling me to see volume 44 and 45 (which is hard given that I read online and thus there aren't any volumes) you mean chp 416? But even in that chapter, he wasn't automatically killing the innocent. He states that if someone opposes his belief, he would kill their family and then see how they felt about it then. Sure that's bad, but it's not anything new. Sasuke threw that same line of reasoning out at Kakashi back in Part One. It's a stance he already held, so unless you're saying he was a villain since that point, it would still be him being an anti-hero.

I would point out that Nagato, Obito, and Itachi are all currently seen as anti-heroes, despite both of them actually killing innocent people, including children. Not to mention the Bijuus. In a world where heroes willingly preform assassination, the death of innocents is a small factor in judging who's a villain or not. Danzo never killed anyone on-screen, and Madara is hazy, but it's clear they both are seen as villains.

I'll be more to the point this time. Chapter 416 I believe it is, Obito asks Sasuke what his true intentions are. Sasuke tells Obito/Fakedara that after hearing Itachi's story he won't forgive Konoha and plans to slaughter them all. Obito asks him that he thought he only wanted to kill the elders. Sasuke responds by saying he wants to slaughter everyone with his own hands. Sounds like a cold blooded killer villain to me. Even people who have no idea who the Uchiha are, Sasuke planned to kill them if they were of Konoha blood. Sasuke was a villain at this point. Now let me hear you argue this point. I want to hear your response.

As far as your Obito, Itachi, and Nagato comments about being anti-heroes. Nagato didn't become a anti-hero until he was edo tenseied back to life and tried to help Naruto. But during his time as Pain he was a hardcore villain of the series. Obito became a anti-hero after Naruto changed him during their battle, but until then he was the big bad of the series...until Madara demoted him. Itachi is the only one who can really be argued and even he was playing a villain role for most of the series, even if by a fake. Not that any of that changes what I said about Sasuke.

NarutoSharingan
25th July 2014, 2:12 AM
Naruto vs. Sasuke still needs to happen, which is why I want this war arc over with already. I'd rather see those two fight again than see more of Kaguya's lameness.

I agree but know kishi he might make the fight an minute long until he makes a new character kaguya is dumb az hell though,and obito dies for the 99th time

Nodame
26th July 2014, 6:08 PM
The manga keeps stressing Naruto x Sasuke bromance bond more than Team 7 as a family :x I like NaruSasu bromance and all, I just hate when it's being pushed down my throat.

Venasaurrules
27th July 2014, 2:36 PM
RIP Obito - one of my favourite characters of all of Naruto :(

Good news that the big news wasn't about the ending of Naruto, I'm hopeful that the manga could at least be stretched out until mid 2015! The manga has become so exciting now, I really don't want it to end! Also, I can't wait for the new Naruto movie. It will probably be very canon, did you guys see the older Naruto? This movie must be important. Also I read a few months ago Kishi was thinking of showing Kakashi's face in a Naruto movie, maybe this could be the one!? Either way, exciting news and great chapter and RIP Obito

Lorde
27th July 2014, 9:53 PM
The manga has become so exciting now

What exactly is exciting about a war arc that has lasted four years and now has a mediocre final villain for the protagonists to defeat? I'm starting to miss Madara.

Platinum fan.
27th July 2014, 10:05 PM
The manga keeps stressing Naruto x Sasuke bromance bond more than Team 7 as a family :x I like NaruSasu bromance and all, I just hate when it's being pushed down my throat.

Naruto and Sasuke really are the only ones who matter now. Everyone is just not important. That's why I support Kakashi dying with Obito. So he can be appreciated with his real team not Naruto and Sasuke being the chosen whatevers.


And personally I don't miss Madara a bit. Good riddance. I hope that is the end of Madara and he doesn't get a good ending. That can be his punishment for this long war arc. I'm not a fan of Kaguya, but I'll take anything over generic overlord Madara. Kaguya not talking and just attacking has been a blessing after years of Madara and his overpowered, generic speeching, bland self. Madara has got to be my least favorite character in the Naruto series, and there are plenty of bad characters in this series. But I can't think of one that gave me more of a headache then Madara. Just more whiny Uchiha drama. Good riddance, I hope the character never returns. Ever!

Nodame
27th July 2014, 10:20 PM
Naruto and Sasuke really are the only ones who matter now. Everyone is just not important. That's why I support Kakashi dying with Obito. So he can be appreciated with his real team not Naruto and Sasuke being the chosen whatevers.

The whole manga is about them and the Uchihas and I think this is why the manga lost so much quality because basically every character has to suffer. I wish instead of this ridiculous bond there was more focus on Sakura and the other teams, so much waisted potential in here. I really hope by the end of the manga at least we see something..

Platinum fan.
27th July 2014, 10:29 PM
The whole manga is about them and the Uchihas and I think this is why the manga lost so much quality because basically every character has to suffer. I wish instead of this ridiculous bond there was more focus on Sakura and the other teams, so much waisted potential in here. I really hope by the end of the manga at least we see something..

There's no hope for Sakura and the others now. I mean Kishi is trying to put Sakura on some kind of pedestal with the rest of Team 7 in this final by making her Tsunade Junior. It's just too bad that Tsunade was outclassed early in Part 2, so it's not as impressive as it should be. The Uchihas have pretty much taken over the series. What use to be a story about a outcast boy cursed with a demon fox and trying to defy what nearly everyone labeled him as and become the Hokage of his village, has turned into prophecy galore, chosen one junk, and everything leading back to the Uchiha and their whiny history. I seriously am so sick of the Uchiha and their drama. When did the Uchihas become the center of the Naruto universe? They're more important/powerful then the tailed beast for crying out loud!

LightningMaster95
27th July 2014, 11:01 PM
since the manga is close to ending i always wondered why kishi never stated how hashirama died he told/showed us how three of the hokages died but not how the most important hokage died

Lorde
27th July 2014, 11:05 PM
since the manga is close to ending i always wondered why kishi never stated how hashirama died he told/showed us how three of the hokages died but not how the most important hokage died

Kishi already stated in the 1st databook that Hashirama died in a war after founding Konoha.

Platinum fan.
28th July 2014, 5:32 PM
I just realized something. When Naruto ends, what will we talk about on this thread? How will I have my heated Naruto debates when the series is over? I'll miss my debates, arguments, and frustrations over the series when it's all over. I think I'll miss those most of all.

Lorde
28th July 2014, 9:01 PM
I just realized something. When Naruto ends, what will we talk about on this thread? How will I have my heated Naruto debates when the series is over? I'll miss my debates, arguments, and frustrations over the series when it's all over. I think I'll miss those most of all.

Imo, the thread will presumably be locked, die on its own or become a Naruto anime thread since that's still going on. Frankly, the thought of those scenarios saddens me a bit, but the manga's gonna end regardless tbh.

Shneak
29th July 2014, 2:05 AM
I just realized something. When Naruto ends, what will we talk about on this thread? How will I have my heated Naruto debates when the series is over? I'll miss my debates, arguments, and frustrations over the series when it's all over. I think I'll miss those most of all.

We will be nice and ancient like hermit Madara by then. :)

It will probably feature arguing about the ending and shipping.

dannydstk
30th July 2014, 12:31 AM
There used to be a discussion for the last harry potter book back in the day. I had a blast discussing in there.On an old account of course. Pretty much the same thing here but I mostly lurk.

Lorde
30th July 2014, 7:59 AM
So Obito finally died after a long monologue and was reunited with Rin in the afterlife. Oh and Naruto got to injure Kaguya. The chapter felt short though.

JD
30th July 2014, 8:50 AM
Probably the best death since Jiraiya RIP Obito.

lolipiece
30th July 2014, 9:01 AM
"I mean he may have caused the deaths of many of my friends because some girl he liked died, but he was totally cool, I guess!"

But wait. With Black Zetsu ripped off, how can Kaguya fight without a man(tree thing) giving her orders?

JD
30th July 2014, 9:04 AM
"I mean he may have caused the deaths of many of my friends because some girl he liked died, but he was totally cool, I guess!"

But wait. With Black Zetsu ripped off, how can Kaguya fight without a man(tree thing) giving her orders?

Yeah that line was pretty corny I thought his death was well done though.

nuzamaki90
30th July 2014, 2:13 PM
I never disliked Obito like an odd portion of the fanbase and I always thought he was pretty badass from start to end. One of my favorite characters of this series died his 3rd and final death taking the hit for someone else. That final panel of him telling Naruto he will become Hokage and Naruto saying “Yeah!” was a fierce tear jerker. I'm glad he got to finally join Rin.


Oh and Black Zetsu getting completely annihilated along with Bunny Godess' arm was cool too.

Platinum fan.
30th July 2014, 3:24 PM
*SOB* Oh Obito! I don't care that they made you Fakedara and that you totally go screwed when the real Madara showed up and made you a underling, or that this war ruined you for the most part. This last chapter made me love you all over again. I don't even care that half of this chapter was stuff we already knew. It was Obito. This is the closest thing I'll ever get to a Team Minato spin off and I loved it. I loved this corny chapter. And Obito encouraging Naruto to become Hokage, that was the true moment of this chapter. Anyone who thinks Sasuke deserves to be Hokage over Naruto, think again. It's not whiny, emo betraying actions that make you Hokage! It's all the corny stuff that Naruto does that will make him Konoha's Hokage. Farewell Obito. You will forever be my favorite Uchiha in this series. You've earned your eternal rest. Now go claim your holy grail that is Rin. Kakashi is once again the soul survivor of Team Minato, and no Minato is still a zombie so that doesn't count. But one day Kakashi will rejoin his true team and they will be unite once again. This chapter for me was outstanding. Chapter of the year so far. Excuse me while I go cry. Team Minato Forever!


RIN IS ALWAYS WATCHING YOU!

Nodame
30th July 2014, 4:49 PM
"Obito is the coolest guy ever" he also killed my friends and *parents*, but they weren't as cool as him
I think I've just read the most dumbest statement in this entire series. The coolest guy you know? Really? My God. I lost a few brain cells after reading that.

I feel pity for how "manipulated" or "lost" he was, tell that to the people he killed... He never even expresses any regret for the people who died because of him, only that he never became Hokage and whine over Rin :x despite all that, I liked him.


I just realized something. When Naruto ends, what will we talk about on this thread? How will I have my heated Naruto debates when the series is over? I'll miss my debates, arguments, and frustrations over the series when it's all over. I think I'll miss those most of all.
I wish I never saw any Naruto related things on the internet and kept on enjoying the manga all by myself without going on the net. So I could enjoy everything without thinking about negative things. All my worries and tensions began once I saw what was said on forums. :p

p96822
30th July 2014, 7:21 PM
Obito didn't kill Naruto's parent that was Kurama.

Red and Blue
30th July 2014, 7:33 PM
Obito didn't kill Naruto's parent that was Kurama.
He was still responsible for their deaths though. He did release Kurama from Kushina.

Nodame
30th July 2014, 7:37 PM
Obito didn't kill Naruto's parent that was Kurama.

Obito had brought Kurama into Konoha.

Lorde
30th July 2014, 8:30 PM
Naruto forgiving Obito was predictable in my opinion. At least that's one less character to worry about now that he's dead, although his final speech did drag on and on imo.

Platinum fan.
30th July 2014, 9:47 PM
Naruto always forgives the baddies. No matter what they do to him. This is the same guy who forgave Nagato after he nearly wiped out Konoha and killed people that Naruto actually knew. True Nagato revived them all, well all except Jiraiya. So Naruto forgiving Obito isn't surprising at all. It just adds to Naruto's world peace thing. Besides we all know Naruto hates Minato, LOL.

In my tear blindness over Obito finally being removed from this crappy war storyline, I didn't comment on another scene I liked. That was Sasuke trying to Chidori Kaguya. It reminded me of Sasuke setting Trolldara on fire as soon as he was no longer a zombie. That was cool. One moment that made me laugh, even though I just need to accept it that this is what kishi is trying to hammer home. Obito tells Kakashi he still needs to watch over the future generations because they will do big things. Guess which name was thrown in there with Naruto and Sasuke's for the "will do big things" I'm going to get a good laugh at this everytime.

p96822
30th July 2014, 9:57 PM
Obito had brought Kurama into Konoha.

But he wasn't controling Kurma after Minato fend him off and Kurama did kill them

Lorde
30th July 2014, 10:00 PM
But he wasn't controling Kurma after Minato fend him off and Kurama did kill them

Yes, but Obito was basically the catalyst for their deaths; had Obito not extracted Kurama from Kushina, neither of Naruto's parents would've died that night.

Platinum fan.
30th July 2014, 11:41 PM
Yes, but Obito was basically the catalyst for their deaths; had Obito not extracted Kurama from Kushina, neither of Naruto's parents would've died that night.

Very true. Even if he didn't do it himself, it was his actions that resulted in Minato and Kushina's deaths. Of all the revivals in this war arc why didn't anyone revive Kushina? Now that would have been a fun Edo Tensei zombie to have around. Granted I don't support Edo Tensei and think it's a cheap jutsu to begin with. I mean seriously, if Kabutomaru had any brains at all he would have revived the entire Uchiha clan. Multiple Sharingan powers activate. Sasuke demanded that he would stop if they brought back his clan. Surely Kabutomaru could have found traces of their bodies.

Shneak
31st July 2014, 3:13 AM
Naruto forgiving Obito for everything rubs me the wrong way. He killed your parents and basically became the reason why you became a jinchuuriki and got hunted down by the Akatsuki. Fine, let him die for you but don't call him awesome. I'm glad that he's gone now so we don't have to see anymore Rin flashbacks.

Now onwards to finishing Kaguya off. Sasuke was pretty great in this chapter but if Naruto killed Zetsu then way to go.

Venasaurrules
31st July 2014, 12:20 PM
Beautiful chapter... RIP Obito, you died as a hero.

nuzamaki90
31st July 2014, 3:03 PM
Naruto forgiving Obito for everything rubs me the wrong way. He killed your parents and basically became the reason why you became a jinchuuriki and got hunted down by the Akatsuki. Fine, let him die for you but don't call him awesome. I'm glad that he's gone now so we don't have to see anymore Rin flashbacks.

Now onwards to finishing Kaguya off. Sasuke was pretty great in this chapter but if Naruto killed Zetsu then way to go.

But is becoming a Jinchuuriki not a good thing? Because of all of that happening, Naruto became a hero in the ninja world and like everyone looks up to him now, even other Jinchuurikis and Kages. Had Minato and Kushina lived, he wouldn't have gotten all the recognition he gets now.

PokeMaster366
31st July 2014, 3:59 PM
But is becoming a Jinchuuriki not a good thing? Because of all of that happening, Naruto became a hero in the ninja world and like everyone looks up to him now, even other Jinchuurikis and Kages. Had Minato and Kushina lived, he wouldn't have gotten all the recognition he gets now.

So I guess we can say that, thanks to Obito, Naruto was able to fulfill his dream of becoming a ninja that everyone in his village would respect and admire.

Platinum fan.
31st July 2014, 4:12 PM
But is becoming a Jinchuuriki not a good thing? Because of all of that happening, Naruto became a hero in the ninja world and like everyone looks up to him now, even other Jinchuurikis and Kages. Had Minato and Kushina lived, he wouldn't have gotten all the recognition he gets now.

While it's true Naruto is the person he is today thanks to these actions, Naruto saying Obito was awesome was a little too much. Now it's okay for me to say Obito is awesome, but for Naruto. Forgiving him is one thing, but to say he's awesome is quite another. I'm fine with Naruto feeling bad for Obito's death, but he didn't have to cheese it up. Granted this is not the worst thing that came of this war. And I'm glad Obito got a much more meaningful ending then Madara did. Obito was a much bigger influence in the Naruto series then Madara ever was.

Kamex
31st July 2014, 6:03 PM
I think I agree with anyone who said Obito's death was well done minus Naruto calling him awesome. Although I might add that he didn't have as much closure with Kakashi than I would have expected (other than saving his life of course).

As for Obito indirectly killing Naruto's parents, "guns don't kill people, people kill people!" Maybe this quote is appropriate?


And I'm glad Obito got a much more meaningful ending then Madara did. Obito was a much bigger influence in the Naruto series then Madara ever was.
I highly doubt Madara is dead yet, it was an interesting plot twist but way too sudden to be real. And if you count Obito's life after his first "death" as having been manipulated by Madara, then everything Madara AND Obito did to influence the series can ultimately be attributed to Madara. Which apparently was all attributed to Black Zetsu/Kaguya.../Juubi/Giga Tree... or something. Lol.

In other news, have you guys seen this yet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3oSYxieqnw

The main thing I got from this teaser is that Naruto's right hand is covered in bandages. Is that the hand with his Six Paths' Sun marking? Does this mean in the future Naruto will continue to have his hax powers, or at least some minor form of them?! Hmmm...

Platinum fan.
31st July 2014, 7:39 PM
I think I agree with anyone who said Obito's death was well done minus Naruto calling him awesome. Although I might add that he didn't have as much closure with Kakashi than I would have expected (other than saving his life of course).

As for Obito indirectly killing Naruto's parents, "guns don't kill people, people kill people!" Maybe this quote is appropriate?


I highly doubt Madara is dead yet, it was an interesting plot twist but way too sudden to be real. And if you count Obito's life after his first "death" as having been manipulated by Madara, then everything Madara AND Obito did to influence the series can ultimately be attributed to Madara. Which apparently was all attributed to Black Zetsu/Kaguya.../Juubi/Giga Tree... or something. Lol.

In other news, have you guys seen this yet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3oSYxieqnw

The main thing I got from this teaser is that Naruto's right hand is covered in bandages. Is that the hand with his Six Paths' Sun marking? Does this mean in the future Naruto will continue to have his hax powers, or at least some minor form of them?! Hmmm...

Madara better be dead! Madara may be the only character in Naruto I can truly say I HATE! I don't normally throw the word hate around, because it's a strong word, but I cannot stand Madara. A boring, generic, overlord villain. I could go on and on about why Madara sucks as a character, but I'll spare you the rant. As far that comment about who influences who. Well as of right now Kaguya is the one behind everything. And while Obito was being manipulated, we don't find that out till the more then halfway through the war arc. Until then it was Obito as fake Madara calling the shots, making the plans, getting the bad guys together, and starting ****! The real Madara is a last minute villain who took all the myths being brought on Obito as Fakedara and suddenly he's the real threat. He has no personal connections to any of the characters fighting in the war, no real grudges between Naruto or Sasuke. He is simply the answer to Naruto and Sasuke's growing powers. That's all Madara is. His name got built as the villain on another character. It's like putting Darth Vader or Voldemorts name on some random villain only to reveal last minute that the bad guys you thought were the real bad guys were in fact not who they say they were. Anyway I've ranted about Madara's position in the Naruto world for weeks and weeks with other members now.


Bottom line, Madara sucks and I hope his character stays dead. Good riddance, you boring killing machine with no personality beyond generic overlord.
Edit: The real enemy will be the fruit Kaguya ate! I'm waiting for it to pop out of her and reveal it's true master plan.

TsukiMirage
31st July 2014, 7:53 PM
I don't even know. What the heck can Naruto possibly see in Obito that makes him the "coolest". It can't possibly be him simply wanting to be Hokage, cause we already saw that wanting to be Hokage is something everyone seems to be after. And Obito getting rewarded with Rin... Anyway, looks like the final battle is nearly over.


I'll be more to the point this time. Chapter 416 I believe it is, Obito asks Sasuke what his true intentions are. Sasuke tells Obito/Fakedara that after hearing Itachi's story he won't forgive Konoha and plans to slaughter them all. Obito asks him that he thought he only wanted to kill the elders. Sasuke responds by saying he wants to slaughter everyone with his own hands. Sounds like a cold blooded killer villain to me. Even people who have no idea who the Uchiha are, Sasuke planned to kill them if they were of Konoha blood. Sasuke was a villain at this point. Now let me hear you argue this point. I want to hear your response.

As far as your Obito, Itachi, and Nagato comments about being anti-heroes. Nagato didn't become a anti-hero until he was edo tenseied back to life and tried to help Naruto. But during his time as Pain he was a hardcore villain of the series. Obito became a anti-hero after Naruto changed him during their battle, but until then he was the big bad of the series...until Madara demoted him. Itachi is the only one who can really be argued and even he was playing a villain role for most of the series, even if by a fake. Not that any of that changes what I said about Sasuke. Seems like a translation issue then - the translation I use (mangapanda) tie his actions against them to making them understand his pain, which as mentioned, is a belief he already held, without any mention of "slaughter". He was already ready to attack and kill those who got in his way, doing so to Naruto and gang several times well before that point. So either he was a villain the entire time, or he didn't become one until he actually started killing innocent people.

The point is that all three of them actually killed hundreds of innocent people without pause, yet them having that blood on their hands did nothing to stop them from being treated as good guys (as even the current chapter strangely shows). Sasuke never killed anyone in Konoha, despite what he said or what it appeared to be. Three times he chose to purposely set aside any action against the village to do other stuff. So if they aren't villains despite what they have done, how can he have been a villain before doing anything?

Platinum fan.
31st July 2014, 8:04 PM
I don't even know. What the heck can Naruto possibly see in Obito that makes him the "coolest". It can't possibly be him simply wanting to be Hokage, cause we already saw that wanting to be Hokage is something everyone seems to be after. And Obito getting rewarded with Rin... Anyway, looks like the final battle is nearly over.

Seems like a translation issue then - the translation I use (mangapanda) tie his actions against them to making them understand his pain, which as mentioned, is a belief he already held, without any mention of "slaughter". He was already ready to attack and kill those who got in his way, doing so to Naruto and gang several times well before that point. So either he was a villain the entire time, or he didn't become one until he actually started killing innocent people.

The point is that all three of them actually killed hundreds of innocent people without pause, yet them having that blood on their hands did nothing to stop them from being treated as good guys (as even the current chapter strangely shows). Sasuke never killed anyone in Konoha, despite what he said or what it appeared to be. Three times he chose to purposely set aside any action against the village to do other stuff. So if they aren't villains despite what they have done, how can he have been a villain before doing anything?

Sounds like translation issues indeed. Well I'm holding the actual volume 45 where it states Sasukes actions as genocide. As far as how Sasuke could be a villain before doing anything, Sasuke tells Obito the truth behind his actions. He plans to kill everyone in Konoha. Everyone! Whether they were involved with the Uchiha incident or not. He didn't get around to killing anyone, but the entire point is he was planning too. Sasuke was going to kill innocent people over the Uchiha incident. That is the actions of a cold blooded killer. He was attempting mass genocide on Konoha. That sounds way more like a villain then a anti-hero. In my opinion Sasuke went from a regular good guy, when he joined Orochimaru he became a anti-hero, when he announced his plans to kill Konoha he was a full blown villain, and then he became a anti-hero again when he teamed with Itachi and started questioning his motives and needed the dead Hokage for answers of the truth. That's how I see Sasuke.

Lorde
31st July 2014, 9:21 PM
I simply figured that Naruto respected Obito's sacrifice tbh, which made him "cool" in Naruto's eyes. Naruto has bigger fish to fry anyway and it's not like him to hold a grudge.

nuzamaki90
31st July 2014, 10:16 PM
I simply figured that Naruto respected Obito's sacrifice tbh, which made him "cool" in Naruto's eyes. Naruto has bigger fish to fry anyway and it's not like him to hold a grudge.

You gotta wonder how big of an impact those last few words will have on Naruto. It might just be me but his design in The Last looks a lot like Obito.

lolipiece
1st August 2014, 12:35 AM
Hey guys! Remember that funny Rock Lee spinoff that got its own anime? Both the manga and anime ended in the last two years, but now there's another spinoff! (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2014-07-31/naruto-sasuke-uchiha-gets-spin-off-manga-in-saikyo-jump/.77158)

...Starring Sasuke...

Platinum fan.
1st August 2014, 12:48 AM
Hey guys! Remember that funny Rock Lee spinoff that got its own anime? Both the manga and anime ended in the last two years, but now there's another spinoff! (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2014-07-31/naruto-sasuke-uchiha-gets-spin-off-manga-in-saikyo-jump/.77158)

...Starring Sasuke...

LOL, I will only love it if Sasuke is constantly asked to join these different teams because the leader of those teams always tells him a different story about the Uchiha legacy. Other then that, Sasuke is not at all a humorous character so I wonder how that would even work.

Lorde
1st August 2014, 12:52 AM
So Kishi finally gave his beloved Sasuke a spin-off. Kii. I don't think it'll be received well though; Sasuke as the main character of a comedy manga sounds so wrong. :x

Platinum fan.
1st August 2014, 1:13 AM
So Kishi finally gave his beloved Sasuke a spin-off. Kii. I don't think it'll be received well though; Sasuke as the main character of a comedy manga sounds so wrong. :x

Oh I'm sure they can think of some funny gags to do with Sasuke's situation. Here's a example
Orochimaru: "Sasuke! Come with me! I'll grant you power to kill your older brother!"
Sasuke: "Hmm? Well okay. Sure your my enemy and your far weaker then Itachi, but I'll trust that you know how to give me the power to beat him, despite the fact that for all your knowledge of justu you can't match my brother."
Orochimaru: "Splendid."

And then after three years of training.
Sasuke: "Orochimaru, all this training you are making me do is pointless. We Uchiha's gain power by evolving our Sharingan."
Orochimaru: "But Sasuke! You must train your body as well!"
Sasuke: "That was in part 1, and a ploy to show that Rock Lee was a strong rival. In part 2 we threw that crap out. Now by simply evolving Sharingan I can beat Gokage level opponents with simple eye power. And no matter how much you train me, I'll never evolve Sharingan this way. Unless I consider you my friend and kill you to gain MS. And I don't consider you a friend."
Orochimaru: "..."

There's plenty of wacky stuff they could do with Sasuke in a comedy manga. They just have to use the material they already have and make it humorous.

LightningMaster95
1st August 2014, 3:10 AM
In other news, have you guys seen this yet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3oSYxieqnw
well atleast they confirmed the movie is going to be canon and idk y people are hating on his new design it looks nice...now im just waiting for kakashi's face to be revealed

Agility
1st August 2014, 3:17 AM
All they have to do is basically model him after Part 1 Sasuke. I know a lot of people have forgotten his personality from here. Just go back and watch the episode they try to see Kakashi's face. xD

PokeMaster366
1st August 2014, 3:28 AM
Oh I'm sure they can think of some funny gags to do with Sasuke's situation. Here's a example
Orochimaru: "Sasuke! Come with me! I'll grant you power to kill your older brother!"
Sasuke: "Hmm? Well okay. Sure your my enemy and your far weaker then Itachi, but I'll trust that you know how to give me the power to beat him, despite the fact that for all your knowledge of justu you can't match my brother."
Orochimaru: "Splendid."

And then after three years of training.
Sasuke: "Orochimaru, all this training you are making me do is pointless. We Uchiha's gain power by evolving our Sharingan."
Orochimaru: "But Sasuke! You must train your body as well!"
Sasuke: "That was in part 1, and a ploy to show that Rock Lee was a strong rival. In part 2 we threw that crap out. Now by simply evolving Sharingan I can beat Gokage level opponents with simple eye power. And no matter how much you train me, I'll never evolve Sharingan this way. Unless I consider you my friend and kill you to gain MS. And I don't consider you a friend."
Orochimaru: "..."

There's plenty of wacky stuff they could do with Sasuke in a comedy manga. They just have to use the material they already have and make it humorous.

That sounds more like an amusing satire than a spin-off.

Nodame
1st August 2014, 3:36 AM
All they have to do is basically model him after Part 1 Sasuke. I know a lot of people have forgotten his personality from here. Just go back and watch the episode they try to see Kakashi's face. xD
That was a filler actually, not canon :P

Lorde
1st August 2014, 3:36 AM
That sounds more like an amusing satire than a spin-off.

Well yeah, because the spin-off is supposed to be comedic, as implied in the preliminary summary.

nuzamaki90
1st August 2014, 3:39 AM
Sasuke is already getting a comedy special with Itachi in the upcoming Storm game and from what I've seen of it, it's really good.

The series is ending and to not make it as sad, Sasuke is going to try and make us laugh lol

I wonder how this one will compare to Rock Lee's, I thought that spinoff was one of the funniest shows I've evEr seen.

Platinum fan.
1st August 2014, 3:53 AM
So the movie is canon? Well that's annoying. Because then I'll be forced to watch and listen to the horrible voices of these characters and their over dramatic music. It's strange that I love the manga but detest the anime.

Well whatever. I just wanted my Team Minato spinoff. I know one was never ever going to happen. But that would have pleased me before the series ended. I wanted to remember Obito from the good ole days rather then Fakedara, and to see Kakashi as a arrogant punk. I suppose it's a dream that will never come.

Nodame
1st August 2014, 4:00 AM
So the movie is canon? Well that's annoying. Because then I'll be forced to watch and listen to the horrible voices of these characters and their over dramatic music. It's strange that I love the manga but detest the anime.

I don't know I feel like no mangaka would spoil the ending of ones manga with a movie. The Naruto and Sasuke fight alone is gonna last at least 30-40 and I clearly see a good 100 chapters remaining for the overall story. All I could possibly see is that another time skip might be in order, and the movie just is a AU type story to it.

Platinum fan.
1st August 2014, 4:11 AM
I don't know I feel like no mangaka would spoil the ending of ones manga with a movie. The Naruto and Sasuke fight alone is gonna last at least 30-40 and I clearly see a good 100 chapters remaining for the overall story. All I could possibly see is that another time skip might be in order, and the movie just is a AU type story to it.

I don't think there needs to be another time skip. However the Naruto and Sasuke fight...I guess needs to still happen? To be perfectly honest, after back to back Obito, Madara, and Kaguya fights, I'm battled out from big showdowns in Naruto. Between those three Super Freaks, you've done everything possible in a Naruto fight. I don't even think a Naruto vs Sasuke battle would even compare. I suppose it could happen. I mean it ended Part 1, but personally I found some of the Sound Four battles to be way better Part 1 finales then Naruto vs Sasuke in the Vally of ends. Mangawise anyway. This is the only time you'll see me praise the anime for doing something way better then the manga. Mangawise Naruto vs Sasuke was really one sided and lacking.

Kamex
1st August 2014, 4:59 AM
Madara better be dead! Madara may be the only character in Naruto I can truly say I HATE! I don't normally throw the word hate around, because it's a strong word, but I cannot stand Madara. A boring, generic, overlord villain. I could go on and on about why Madara sucks as a character, but I'll spare you the rant.
As much as I appreciate you sparing me the rant, I have to say I disagree with you. I think Madara is a deep character. There were so many things in the dark about his intentions and history that we slowly learned, and even now I feel like it's hard to completely sympathize with his character (because he's complicated, not because he's nonsensical). Looking into the past, we saw the crazy life he lived in his youth during the Warring States period, the intricate relationship/friendship/rivarly he had with Hashirama, the implications of said relationship on the entire world thereafter, the weight of his clan's well-being (including his remaining brother) on his shoulders, the responsibility and decisions he made concerning his rare skill and ocular powers, all the conclusions and changes of heart he made throughout his life up until he finally decided to desert the young Leaf village and become a true villain, the crazy plan he concocted after reading the Uchiha Stone Monument, etc...

And yes, after all of that, we know him current day to be a pretty straight-forward, seemingly-non-dimensional, hax villain on the surface. But considering everything that lead him to this point and everything that must be theoretically going on in his mind that's resulted in his megalomania, I don't think any of that is a good enough reason to consider him boring and generic. That being said, I am not one of those who would consider Obito to be a poorly-written villain (at least not entirely).



As far that comment about who influences who. Well as of right now Kaguya is the one behind everything. And while Obito was being manipulated, we don't find that out till the more then halfway through the war arc. Until then it was Obito as fake Madara calling the shots, making the plans, getting the bad guys together, and starting ****! The real Madara is a last minute villain who took all the myths being brought on Obito as Fakedara and suddenly he's the real threat. He has no personal connections to any of the characters fighting in the war, no real grudges between Naruto or Sasuke. He is simply the answer to Naruto and Sasuke's growing powers. That's all Madara is. His name got built as the villain on another character. It's like putting Darth Vader or Voldemorts name on some random villain only to reveal last minute that the bad guys you thought were the real bad guys were in fact not who they say they were. Anyway I've ranted about Madara's position in the Naruto world for weeks and weeks with other members now.
I mean, you make it sound like there was absolutely no hint that Tobi could have possibly been a fake Madara to begin with. He wore a mask, he seemed very young, other than his Sharingan there was no direct way to relate any of his powers (namely his Space-Time Ninjutsu) to Madara's, and there was a lot of mystery behind the sudden reappearance of this apparent "Madara Uchiha". So while I see your point of how the real Madara seemed to come out of no where (and I can even imagine how the series could have been had Tobi really been Madara after all, it's totally possible if I'm not mistaken), I feel like you're not giving the story enough credit and yes "hate" is probably too strong of a word here I would hope. :P

But you're right about Madara having no personal connections to any of the characters fighting in the war (other than Hashirama, Tobirama and I suppose the Tsuchikage). At least we had two simultaneous villains towards the end to cover any gaps (Madara and Obito). *shrugs*



Bottom line, Madara sucks and I hope his character stays dead. Good riddance, you boring killing machine with no personality beyond generic overlord.
I certainly hope he has more closure, he deserves that much at least IMO.

Lorde
1st August 2014, 5:04 AM
Mangawise Naruto vs Sasuke was really one sided and lacking.

Well sure Sasuke had the upper hand in that fight, because he was supposed to be the last one standing so that he could successfully defect to Otogakure or wherever Orochimaru was.

LightningMaster95
1st August 2014, 5:08 AM
after watching the naruto shippuden episode today it reminded me of a question that always made me wonder
if minato had survived the nine tails attack how would he have dealt with the uchiha rebellion?would it still have happened?

Platinum fan.
1st August 2014, 5:29 AM
As much as I appreciate you sparing me the rant, I have to say I disagree with you. I think Madara is a deep character. There were so many things in the dark about his intentions and history that we slowly learned, and even now I feel like it's hard to completely sympathize with his character (because he's complicated, not because he's nonsensical). Looking into the past, we saw the crazy life he lived in his youth during the Warring States period, the intricate relationship/friendship/rivarly he had with Hashirama, the implications of said relationship on the entire world thereafter, the weight of his clan's well-being (including his remaining brother) on his shoulders, the responsibility and decisions he made concerning his rare skill and ocular powers, all the conclusions and changes of heart he made throughout his life up until he finally decided to desert the young Leaf village and become a true villain, the crazy plan he concocted after reading the Uchiha Stone Monument, etc...

And yes, after all of that, we know him current day to be a pretty straight-forward, seemingly-non-dimensional, hax villain on the surface. But considering everything that lead him to this point and everything that must be theoretically going on in his mind that's resulted in his megalomania, I don't think any of that is a good enough reason to consider him boring and generic. That being said, I am not one of those who would consider Obito to be a poorly-written villain (at least not entirely).



I mean, you make it sound like there was absolutely no hint that Tobi could have possibly been a fake Madara to begin with. He wore a mask, he seemed very young, other than his Sharingan there was no direct way to relate any of his powers (namely his Space-Time Ninjutsu) to Madara's, and there was a lot of mystery behind the sudden reappearance of this apparent "Madara Uchiha". So while I see your point of how the real Madara seemed to come out of no where (and I can even imagine how the series could have been had Tobi really been Madara after all, it's totally possible if I'm not mistaken), I feel like you're not giving the story enough credit and yes "hate" is probably too strong of a word here I would hope. :P

But you're right about Madara having no personal connections to any of the characters fighting in the war (other than Hashirama, Tobirama and I suppose the Tsuchikage). At least we had two simultaneous villains towards the end to cover any gaps (Madara and Obito). *shrugs*



I certainly hope he has more closure, he deserves that much at least IMO.

I'm close to hating Madara. I still just dislike him. If I hate a character, my rants would be much worse and I would not give the character any credit. I can at least say Madara was the answer to Naruto and Sasuke's overpowered...powers. I'm not trying to say there was no possible way that Tobi couldn't have been Madara. I just think it was done poorly. At best I thought Tobi was either a imperfect clone of Madara trying to be whole or a weak Madara not at full power, though I use to run around here spreading the dreaded Future Sasuke idea. My main issue with Madara was how last minute the character feels. It's not as bad as Kaguya, but to me it still feels like the villain who started all this between Naruto and friends, was not the villain to end this and instead it's a character who has no history at all with Naruto and IMO had no dynamic with anyone outside Hashirama. This really kills the battle for me if there's no dynamic. It didn't feel personal at all between Naruto and Madara. Obito on the other hand has done many things to generate hate from the main cast. Killing Naruto's parents with Kyuubi, starting the war, getting Sasuke to join the bad guys, Sending Pain to blow up Konoha and capture Naruto. It did feel personal between Naruto and Obito. But with Madara? All the guy has is his Hashirama boner when he sense him nearby. That's like the only general emotion I ever got from Madara.

To make my long essay short, to me Madara does not feel like the final villain he should be. He's simply a generic bad guy that needs to be stopped and his chemistry with his opponents is also lacking. And this makes me dislike him DX

Kamex
1st August 2014, 6:06 AM
I'm close to hating Madara. I still just dislike him. If I hate a character, my rants would be much worse and I would not give the character any credit. I can at least say Madara was the answer to Naruto and Sasuke's overpowered...powers. I'm not trying to say there was no possible way that Tobi couldn't have been Madara. I just think it was done poorly. At best I thought Tobi was either a imperfect clone of Madara trying to be whole or a weak Madara not at full power, though I use to run around here spreading the dreaded Future Sasuke idea. My main issue with Madara was how last minute the character feels. It's not as bad as Kaguya, but to me it still feels like the villain who started all this between Naruto and friends, was not the villain to end this and instead it's a character who has no history at all with Naruto and IMO had no dynamic with anyone outside Hashirama. This really kills the battle for me if there's no dynamic. It didn't feel personal at all between Naruto and Madara. Obito on the other hand has done many things to generate hate from the main cast. Killing Naruto's parents with Kyuubi, starting the war, getting Sasuke to join the bad guys, Sending Pain to blow up Konoha and capture Naruto. It did feel personal between Naruto and Obito. But with Madara? All the guy has is his Hashirama boner when he sense him nearby. That's like the only general emotion I ever got from Madara.

To make my long essay short, to me Madara does not feel like the final villain he should be. He's simply a generic bad guy that needs to be stopped and his chemistry with his opponents is also lacking. And this makes me dislike him DX
The thing is, after Madara was reincarnated and even after Tobi's identity was revealed, Obito didn't just cease being the villain to offer Madara the pedestal. Madara became the "big bad" I suppose, but other than proving that he was nearly unstoppable, he still pretty much held a backseat to Obito as the lead villain for the time being, so I feel like nothing really effectively changed. And then when Obito was defeated and Madara finally went into action, then I'd say you're right that he kind of just served as a humongous hurdle for Naruto and Sasuke to knock down (or attempt to - they technically never beat him). But to be honest, did that really matter? We already got plenty of personal battles and whatnot from previous battles, ending with Obito's. Maybe Madara's main purpose, plot-wise, was to be the ultimate challenge (well, Kaguya notwithstanding... >_>). Besides, Madara's beef with Hashirama was bigger than just the two of them, for two reasons: one, the whole Ashura/Indra parallels (which connects Madara to Naruto and Sasuke after all); and two, Madara basically represented the whole "force peace on everyone because there's no other way to achieve it" ideology. Many characters represented this, but Madara was the one with the biggest push to make it happen, and Naruto's main purpose (in Part II at least) was to fight that way of thinking head on. [EDIT: And for Sasuke, Hashirama's relationship with Madara and their history is what finally got him on the heroes' side again, so battling Madara alongside Naruto was symbolic for him.] And besides, Madara only really lasted in the limelight long enough for us to have some crazy battles, then Black Zetsu quickly stole his thunder... what Madara represents and his influence on the series was his true contribution to the story.

So basically what I'm saying is even if Madara is more or less what you make him out to be, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Not that I expect you to change your mind. In fact, I agree that it would have been better if Madara had a direct relationship with the main characters.

Shneak
2nd August 2014, 3:47 AM
after watching the naruto shippuden episode today it reminded me of a question that always made me wonder
if minato had survived the nine tails attack how would he have dealt with the uchiha rebellion?would it still have happened?

Depends on whether Obito survives and has enough influence on Itachi still. I doubt Danzo would be in the same position with Minato as the hokage.

Lorde
3rd August 2014, 5:17 AM
Speaking of a final Naruto and Sasuke fight over the Hokage title, where would it occur? I hope it doesn't happen at the Final Valley again.

Kamex
3rd August 2014, 6:04 AM
Speaking of a final Naruto and Sasuke fight over the Hokage title, where would it occur? I hope it doesn't happen at the Final Valley again.
Maybe that battle would create a new valley. "The First Valley" or "The Valley of the Beginning".

TsukiMirage
3rd August 2014, 10:29 PM
Sounds like translation issues indeed. Well I'm holding the actual volume 45 where it states Sasukes actions as genocide. As far as how Sasuke could be a villain before doing anything, Sasuke tells Obito the truth behind his actions. He plans to kill everyone in Konoha. Everyone! Whether they were involved with the Uchiha incident or not. He didn't get around to killing anyone, but the entire point is he was planning too. Sasuke was going to kill innocent people over the Uchiha incident. That is the actions of a cold blooded killer. He was attempting mass genocide on Konoha. That sounds way more like a villain then a anti-hero. In my opinion Sasuke went from a regular good guy, when he joined Orochimaru he became a anti-hero, when he announced his plans to kill Konoha he was a full blown villain, and then he became a anti-hero again when he teamed with Itachi and started questioning his motives and needed the dead Hokage for answers of the truth. That's how I see Sasuke.The Japanese volume? Cause that's the only one that would hold actual weight.

And again I ask, why do you believe that Sasuke was telling Obito the truth, given his actions and more importantly, the relationship between them? They were not close, they were barely comrades. Sasuke literally betrayed Obito every chance he got. He attempted to kill and tried to leave Akatsuki. Heck, he showed his intentions once he finally got EMS and once again left. Events support him speaking the truth to Taka more then speaking it to Obito. In addition, why would Sasuke have to lie to Team Taka? Think about it. Suigetsu? He was all for killing and only toned down because Sasuke made him, and even then he was still killing people behind Sasuke's back. Juugo? Another person who had no problem with killing, and who was absolute loyal to Sasuke. Karin? Miss bipolar who was just as questionably moral as Suigetsu. She had no problem hunting and locking people up for Orochimaru. So exactly who was he lying for? The former two were mass-murderers and the latter showed no issues with working for a mass-murderer. Heck, Suigetsu brought up the idea of destroying Konoha when they went to talk to the Edo Hokages.

Anyway, if that's the way you want to see it, alright. I just don't see any reason to believe Sasuke wasn't just playing Obito, given all that he did.


Speaking of a final Naruto and Sasuke fight over the Hokage title, where would it occur? I hope it doesn't happen at the Final Valley again. I still doubt there will be a fight, especially given how they are now, working together and the current theme of combining skills.

Platinum fan.
3rd August 2014, 11:05 PM
The Japanese volume? Cause that's the only one that would hold actual weight.

And again I ask, why do you believe that Sasuke was telling Obito the truth, given his actions and more importantly, the relationship between them? They were not close, they were barely comrades. Sasuke literally betrayed Obito every chance he got. He attempted to kill and tried to leave Akatsuki. Heck, he showed his intentions once he finally got EMS and once again left. Events support him speaking the truth to Taka more then speaking it to Obito. In addition, why would Sasuke have to lie to Team Taka? Think about it. Suigetsu? He was all for killing and only toned down because Sasuke made him, and even then he was still killing people behind Sasuke's back. Juugo? Another person who had no problem with killing, and who was absolute loyal to Sasuke. Karin? Miss bipolar who was just as questionably moral as Suigetsu. She had no problem hunting and locking people up for Orochimaru. So exactly who was he lying for? The former two were mass-murderers and the latter showed no issues with working for a mass-murderer. Heck, Suigetsu brought up the idea of destroying Konoha when they went to talk to the Edo Hokages.

Anyway, if that's the way you want to see it, alright. I just don't see any reason to believe Sasuke wasn't just playing Obito, given all that he did.

I still doubt there will be a fight, especially given how they are now, working together and the current theme of combining skills.

No offense, but now it just sounds like your in denial. Why do I think Sasuke was telling Obito the truth? Well he tells Kakashi, Sakura, and Naruto the exact same thing that he's going to kill everyone in Konoha including them. And your question of Sasuke lying to Obito. Well if he was lying to Obito why would Kishi even bother to show that? If Sasuke was lying then wouldn't it make more sense to first show him lying to Obito and then going behind his back and telling Taka the truth? The opposite happened. As to why Sasuke lied to them. Sasuke already explained that himself in the chapter. He wants to slaughter Konoha by himself. When it comes to revenge Sasuke has always worked alone. Taka is just there to make sure nobody gets in the way of his revenge, but he's always taking revenge on his own and takes great pleasure in it. See killing Danzo.

Again, no offense, but I'm starting to wonder how much of this manga you've actually read. Please don't take that the wrong way though.

Nodame
4th August 2014, 11:28 PM
I don't think there needs to be another time skip. However the Naruto and Sasuke fight...I guess needs to still happen? To be perfectly honest, after back to back Obito, Madara, and Kaguya fights, I'm battled out from big showdowns in Naruto. Between those three Super Freaks, you've done everything possible in a Naruto fight. I don't even think a Naruto vs Sasuke battle would even compare. I suppose it could happen. I mean it ended Part 1, but personally I found some of the Sound Four battles to be way better Part 1 finales then Naruto vs Sasuke in the Vally of ends. Mangawise anyway. This is the only time you'll see me praise the anime for doing something way better then the manga. Mangawise Naruto vs Sasuke was really one sided and lacking.

Watching them fight used to be rather interesting to me, but after a little while it died a bit. I still want to see a great fight, but I don't really care all that much anymore. Too predictable for me to be that interested *yawn*

Lorde
4th August 2014, 11:33 PM
I still doubt there will be a fight, especially given how they are now, working together and the current theme of combining skills.

And yet there's still the matter of Sasuke wanting to be Hokage too and how that conflicts with Naruto's dream. How else will that get resolved without a fight?

Kamex
5th August 2014, 4:11 AM
And yet there's still the matter of Sasuke wanting to be Hokage too and how that conflicts with Naruto's dream. How else will that get resolved without a fight?
Maybe there will be two Hokage. That would be silly to me though. Or maybe Sasuke will hold some other leadership position, similar to how Danzo was the "Root" to Hiruzen's leaves. Somehow teamwork will be the solution.

I used to really want a Naruto vs. Sasuke fight, but it's true that it no longer seems like it would add much after back-to-back-to-back final boss battles...

Platinum fan.
5th August 2014, 4:23 AM
Honestly Sasuke in any position of power in Konoha is just wrong, let alone Hokage. Sasuke's a selfish jerk who only cares about himself and his dead clan. Nobody in their right mind should want Sasuke as Hokage. The same guy who planned to kill everyone in the village. If Sasuke becomes Hokage over Naruto, I would say I'd quit the series but it's probably ending anyway. Just expect a massive essay long rant from me :P

Emperor Empoleon
5th August 2014, 4:28 AM
IDK why Kishi even introduced Hokage!Sasuke to the plot if he was just gonna hype Naruto some more. Just makes the whole thing look sillier.

Kamex
6th August 2014, 4:23 AM
Honestly Sasuke in any position of power in Konoha is just wrong, let alone Hokage. Sasuke's a selfish jerk who only cares about himself and his dead clan. Nobody in their right mind should want Sasuke as Hokage. The same guy who planned to kill everyone in the village.
Well technically before hidden villages existed, everyone was similar to Sasuke. As in everyone only cared about their own clan and fought the others. But once they saw the efficiency and peace of joining forces, they did so and followed Hashirama's example and allowed themselves to be ruled by one powerful leader. Maybe Sasuke will do the same, follow Hashirama's example and care about the village.

Sasuke has "changed" and now he's fighting for the world including Konoha. His personality obviously hasn't changed, but his goals have. That being said, it's hard to trust him so I'm curious how Kishimoto will try to resolve the story if he wants to completely redeem Sasuke in the audience's eyes before the end. I'd like to think there will be some sort of paradigm shift in the way ninja villages work because of Naruto and Sasuke, similar to how the same happened to the Warring States period because of Hashirama and Madara.

DANdotW
6th August 2014, 10:38 AM
I really enjoyed this chapter. Lots happened in the second half, and...well I always wanted Kakashi to have both Sharingan; I'm just wondering about what Obito said. They're going to run out at some point, right? After Obito "goes back" to Rin?

WOW at those Rasenshuriken's.

XanderCage
6th August 2014, 1:48 PM
Well Kishi found his way to make Kakashi relevant again. I'm glad that his new power is only temporary though. It makes sense considering Kakashi has spent the majority of his life with Obito's eye and therefore Obito's chakra. Since chakra can travel between time and space it makes sense that Obito can travel back to Kakashi especially since I'm sure not all of his chakra had dissipated from his ashy remains. Kinda confused on how Kakashi can just get a Perfect Susanoo when Obito showed no ability to do so with both eyes before. Perhaps dying gave Obito all the wisdom in the world and he is controlling Kakashi's Susanoo from behind the scenes. He sure does like playing the puppet master.

nuzamaki90
6th August 2014, 2:32 PM
Well Kishi found his way to make Kakashi relevant again. I'm glad that his new power is only temporary though. It makes sense considering Kakashi has spent the majority of his life with Obito's eye and therefore Obito's chakra. Since chakra can travel between time and space it makes sense that Obito can travel back to Kakashi especially since I'm sure not all of his chakra had dissipated from his ashy remains. Kinda confused on how Kakashi can just get a Perfect Susanoo when Obito showed no ability to do so with both eyes before. Perhaps dying gave Obito all the wisdom in the world and he is controlling Kakashi's Susanoo from behind the scenes. He sure does like playing the puppet master.

It wasn't Kakashi's own Susanoo, it was Sasuke's. Now that Kakashi has two MS he can copy bigger things, which is why Naruto thought it was Sasuke who summoned Susanoo at first.

The whole Kakashi being sixth Hokage thing makes A LOT of sense now. A lot of people, including myself, were wondering why Naruto didn't have his Hokage Cloak if The Last was indeed canon, and I guess we know why now. Kakashi became Sixth Hokage which means Naruto may or may not become Hokage in The Last.

XanderCage
6th August 2014, 2:38 PM
It wasn't Kakashi's own Susanoo, it was Sasuke's. Now that Kakashi has two MS he can copy bigger things, which is why Naruto thought it was Sasuke who summoned Susanoo at first.

The whole Kakashi being sixth Hokage thing makes A LOT of sense now. A lot of people, including myself, were wondering why Naruto didn't have his Hokage Cloak if The Last was indeed canon, and I guess we know why now. Kakashi became Sixth Hokage which means Naruto may or may not become Hokage in The Last.

OH!! I didn't get that when I first read the chapter. I'll have to reread to see that again. I didn't realize that Kakashi copied Sasuke's Susanoo. I thought the sharigan couldn't copy kekkei genkai though? Or is it okay now since its a sharigan copying a sharigan's kekkei genkai?

Platinum fan.
6th August 2014, 2:54 PM
As far as I know Sharingan cannot copy Kekkei Genkai. This was stated in part 1...however many things were stated in Part 1 and got ignored in Part 2 so we'll see how this goes down.

Now for the chapter itself. I won't lie. At some parts I was screaming "KISHIMOTO!!" Stop teasing me with these Obito and Rin bits. Just give me my Team Minato spinoff already! Stop teasing me with these little snips. I want the full story! I want it way more then this crappy Kaguya fight, which I don't even care about anymore. Actually I don't think I ever cared about Kaguya. Just die already, and give me my Team Minato spinoff. I will admit I laughed at Obito not wanting Kakashi to join them anytime soon. Obito's got some "business" with Rin first.

Now onto Hokage Kakashi. I'm fine with it. I've already said Kakashi and even Shikamaru would make a better Hokage then either Naruto or Sasuke. Especially Sasuke. Hokage Sasuke is a joke. But anyway I found the chapter fine. I figured Kakashi would gain MS after his meeting with Obito. Even though Kakashi didn't need it. He's already the cooliest of the cool ninjas. Sakura is useless once again. I love how Naruto tells Sasuke to save her and he doesn't. I laughed so hard at Naruto realizing it was not Sasuke who saved Sakura. And Sasuke's expression at seeing Kakashi with two MS and Susanoo. The best part of the chapter for me was Naruto using all the Tailed Beast powers to strike Kaguya. Really nice artwork. I did wish Sasuke got to do a little more though.

Overall a good chapter. There were moments where I shook my fist but I enjoyed most of it. Stop teasing me with Team Minato already! If you spoil it all now, there will be nothing left for the spinoff series, that I want and will never get. Obito's still has to get his booty duty after all.

RIN IS ALWAYS WATCHING YOU...WELL MAYBE. WITH OBITO DEAD, SHE DOESN'T GIVE A **** ABOUT THIS WAR.

lolipiece
6th August 2014, 3:06 PM
The first half of this chapter was pointless. You literally could've put this in the previous chapter and ended it with the reveal.

And...Sakura? Leave. Please, just leave.

You're not helping anyone anymore. Obito's dead and you can't be used as a battery for him anymore. And this is just painful.

Emperor Empoleon
6th August 2014, 6:19 PM
So he could teleport out of the afterlife? Honestly that whole scene kinda lessens the impact of Obito's departure last chapter :L

And Perfect Susano'o??? Real Uchiha took quite some time to develop their Susano'o, how does Kakashi jump straight to the final form?

EDIT: Also, he didn't copy Susano'o. KG can't be copied, and this one has a unique design that differs from Sasuke's. That's definitely his own.

nuzamaki90
6th August 2014, 6:50 PM
EDIT: Also, he didn't copy Susano'o. KG can't be copied, and this one has a unique design that differs from Sasuke's. That's definitely his own.

Yeah I noticed Kakashi's Susanoo has a cut through its eye just like Kakashi. At least Kakashi will now have a decent Awakening in Storm 4 lol

Also, don't know if you guys have seen but this week's Weekly Jump had the designs for Sakura, Shikamaru and Sai for The Last. Sakura has her Byaku[insert long name here] diamond seal on her forehead at all times now it seems, and Shikamaru looks a lot like his dad.

Lorde
6th August 2014, 8:25 PM
So Kakashi got Obito's other Sharingan. Sigh, I guess he's more relevant now? Him using Susano'o was interesting though. I now await Sakura's power up.

X Drake
6th August 2014, 9:08 PM
So Kakashi got Obito's other Sharingan. Sigh, I guess he's more relevant now? Him using Susano'o was interesting though. I now await Sakura's power up.

That's assuming she gets a Power Up ,I do hope she gets one(even though that would be an asspull)since it would make her more relevant.

Platinum fan.
6th August 2014, 9:36 PM
So Kakashi got Obito's other Sharingan. Sigh, I guess he's more relevant now? Him using Susano'o was interesting though. I now await Sakura's power up.

Sakura being Tsunade 2.0 wasn't her powerup? I thought that was suppose to be the "OMG Sakura finally gets a powerup!" Even though being a Tsunade clone isn't worth much these days.

IMO, Kakashi was already relevant! Giving him Susanoo in fact cheapens the uniqueness that was Kakashi. He was the last shinobi outlaw in a world of Super Freaks and wannabe Super Freaks. And now They have given him the membership card into the Super Freak Club. I have mixed feelings about this. Very mixed feelings. I dislike these powerups just coming out of nowhere. It's one thing if Kakashi kept Obito's eye the entire time and seeing Obito die evolved it further, but this? Meh. Makes Trolldara stealing his eye even more pointless then it already was.

Kamex
6th August 2014, 10:58 PM
Kakashi becoming Hokage is cool but now that we've seen these high caliber fights it seems kind of lame. If I'm not mistaken, Kaguya is the most powerful chakra wielder ever, and there's really no where to go plot-wise after she's been overcome. It's not like Dragonball where you can just keep making up stronger and stronger villains and power-ups (and Kais lol) to no end. There's actually an origin story to all of this, and Naruto and Sasuke are about to surpass it. Naruto becoming Hokage at this point would be satisfying simply because he's finally achieving his dream, but not really because he's only now earning it (he's long since surpassed the power, leadership, etc. necessary).

If The Last is the precursor to another Naruto story succeeding the current one, I can't imagine what it'd be about.

Lorde
6th August 2014, 11:08 PM
Sakura being Tsunade 2.0 wasn't her powerup?

Um, no? She hasn't showcased power anywhere near Naruto's or Sasuke's level imo. If Kakashi got a power up out of the blue to keep up with the boys, why shouldn't Sakura?

Platinum fan.
6th August 2014, 11:40 PM
Um, no? She hasn't showcased power anywhere near Naruto's or Sasuke's level imo. If Kakashi got a power up out of the blue to keep up with the boys, why shouldn't Sakura?

Be sure to tell Kishimoto that when Team Seven become the new Great Three Shinobi from Konoha. Sakura got that Tsunade powerup for just that. The only really good thing that came out of it was it made all of Sasuke's BS powerups look legit.

Realistically there are no more powerups. Kakashi basically got leftover Uchiha power.

Kamex
6th August 2014, 11:44 PM
Um, no? She hasn't showcased power anywhere near Naruto's or Sasuke's level imo. If Kakashi got a power up out of the blue to keep up with the boys, why shouldn't Sakura?
Sakura shouldn't get another power up in my opinion. It's obvious that Kishimoto never intended to allow her to keep up with Naruto and Sasuke in terms of plot relevance (not even slightly), so I have no idea why he continues his struggle to get her to keep up with them in terms of skill and power. Honestly, Sakura has even less depth and significance than a lot of the more minor characters because her clan (if Haruno is one) has no story background and she does little to distinguish herself amongst her peers and teachers, so her character feels like dead weight to me... As much as I wish she was just as important and interesting as the rest of team 7, she totally isn't...

Hence she shouldn't have a power up (and would probably be better off attached to the tree right now). Sorry Sakura.

Platinum fan.
6th August 2014, 11:52 PM
Sakura shouldn't get another power up in my opinion. It's obvious that Kishimoto never intended to allow her to keep up with Naruto and Sasuke in terms of plot relevance (not even slightly), so I have no idea why he continues his struggle to get her to keep up with them in terms of skill and power. Honestly, Sakura has even less depth and significance than a lot of the more minor characters because her clan (if Haruno is one) has no story background and she does little to distinguish herself amongst her peers and teachers, so her character feels like dead weight to me... As much as I wish she was just as important and interesting as the rest of team 7, she totally isn't...

Hence she shouldn't have a power up (and would probably be better off attached to the tree right now). Sorry Sakura.

It feels like Kishimoto wanted to do something big with Sakura, so they have her train with Tsunade like Naruto had Jiraiya and Sasuke had Orochimaru at the end of Part 1. Then Part 2 comes along and she gets a great showing in the Sasori fight and then Kishimoto decides he doesn't want to use Sakura beyond this point and just focuses on Sasuke and Naruto. I always thought that was a mistake not building Sakura along with them. Kishimoto must have felt that too and thus we get this BS forehead powerup, which has to rank up as one of the most forced powerups in the series. Sakura deserved better.

Kamex
7th August 2014, 12:09 AM
It feels like Kishimoto wanted to do something big with Sakura, so they have her train with Tsunade like Naruto had Jiraiya and Sasuke had Orochimaru at the end of Part 1. Then Part 2 comes along and she gets a great showing in the Sasori fight and then Kishimoto decides he doesn't want to use Sakura beyond this point and just focuses on Sasuke and Naruto. I always thought that was a mistake not building Sakura along with them. Kishimoto must have felt that too and thus we get this BS forehead powerup, which has to rank up as one of the most forced powerups in the series. Sakura deserved better.
Yes, but even in Part 1, Sakura trailed behind from the very start, and Naruto and Sasuke's rivalry overshadowed her completely. To me it felt like what he did with their parallel Sensei-student training during the time skip was mostly just an attempt to stick to the pattern he had since the beginning with Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura being a team and the "main characters". He was able to ride off of the steam he created from the time skip during the Sasori battle, but Sakura stopped mattering after that because she never truly mattered in the story. Naruto and Sasuke, Senju and Uchiha, light and dark, sun and moon, all these things mattered and Sakura had no place in it. Not to mention the way kunoichi are treated in the plot in general. It's no wonder Sakura never really had a chance.

And to be honest, maybe I'm being unfair here but I didn't personally care much for her Sasori battle either. Sakura just became a Tsunade-clone. Who cares? Plenty of other kunoichi wanted to be like Tsunade because she was an awesome female ninja (but in reality, it was because she was the only female ninja to stand out and be treated relatively well by Kishimoto). You're right that the forehead powerup was BS. Because it came out of nowhere, made little difference (other than helping Obito save Sasuke, who actually matters lol), and was just another Tsunade-ism.

Meh, I don't think there's any way to save Sakura now, she was doomed from the beginning! Only Tenten has less background detail and personality than her. I care more about Hinata really (although she's yet another cheerleader in many ways).

nuzamaki90
7th August 2014, 12:22 AM
Speaking of Ten Ten..

Lol what ever happened to her using those God weapons? When she got mummified they were still next to her. Was that just a scrapped plot or?

Shneak
7th August 2014, 1:20 AM
What an asspull. As soon as Obito started telling Rin he was going back I dreaded reading further thinking he would somehow come back to life. The alternative is a tiny bit less annoying. Apparently characters can only be relevant and useful if they have eye hax and can use Susanoo. We lost one Uchiha and got another one.

I want to know what's up with Kaguya now though. If she's just losing control then we've seen it all before.

Lorde
7th August 2014, 1:29 AM
I kind of hope that Kaguya does stay in that mutated bestial form and completely loses control; I couldn't take her seriously the way she looked before.

Akashin
7th August 2014, 1:48 AM
Yes, but even in Part 1, Sakura trailed behind from the very start, and Naruto and Sasuke's rivalry overshadowed her completely. To me it felt like what he did with their parallel Sensei-student training during the time skip was mostly just an attempt to stick to the pattern he had since the beginning with Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura being a team and the "main characters". He was able to ride off of the steam he created from the time skip during the Sasori battle, but Sakura stopped mattering after that because she never truly mattered in the story. Naruto and Sasuke, Senju and Uchiha, light and dark, sun and moon, all these things mattered and Sakura had no place in it. Not to mention the way kunoichi are treated in the plot in general. It's no wonder Sakura never really had a chance.

And to be honest, maybe I'm being unfair here but I didn't personally care much for her Sasori battle either. Sakura just became a Tsunade-clone. Who cares? Plenty of other kunoichi wanted to be like Tsunade because she was an awesome female ninja (but in reality, it was because she was the only female ninja to stand out and be treated relatively well by Kishimoto). You're right that the forehead powerup was BS. Because it came out of nowhere, made little difference (other than helping Obito save Sasuke, who actually matters lol), and was just another Tsunade-ism.

Meh, I don't think there's any way to save Sakura now, she was doomed from the beginning! Only Tenten has less background detail and personality than her. I care more about Hinata really (although she's yet another cheerleader in many ways).

While you're not wrong, I really think that was the point of Sakura in Part 1; her struggle was in trying to become relevant after even Naruto started overtaking her. Her being overshadowed felt like it was the entire point, seeing as she had little to no agenda for herself as a Ninja at that point.

And while she was a Tsunade clone at the start of Part 2, again, that made sense; she had little in the way of skills to build on like Naruto and Sasuke did, after all. This could have changed over time had she continued to grow alongside the other two, but that never happened.

Kamex
7th August 2014, 2:28 AM
While you're not wrong, I really think that was the point of Sakura in Part 1; her struggle was in trying to become relevant after even Naruto started overtaking her. Her being overshadowed felt like it was the entire point, seeing as she had little to no agenda for herself as a Ninja at that point.

And while she was a Tsunade clone at the start of Part 2, again, that made sense; she had little in the way of skills to build on like Naruto and Sasuke did, after all. This could have changed over time had she continued to grow alongside the other two, but that never happened.
Well if Sakura's whole purpose in the story is to try to catch up with Naruto and Sasuke, that just makes her seem like a lame character to me. And it came off more like Kishimoto unintentionally left Sakura in her teammates' dust because she's an extremely one-dimensional character and he had no choice but to try and bring her back up to speed (unsuccessfully I might add) by making her imitate Tsunade. But even if he did this intentionally, isn't Naruto supposed to be the underdog that we all wanted to see catch up to Sasuke through sheer hard work and eventually get the village's respect? And he did that quite impressively I'd say. On the other hand, Sakura's struggle seems entirely contrived and pointless.

Just my opinion though! Haha.

Akashin
7th August 2014, 3:03 AM
Well if Sakura's whole purpose in the story is to try to catch up with Naruto and Sasuke, that just makes her seem like a lame character to me. And it came off more like Kishimoto unintentionally left Sakura in her teammates' dust because she's an extremely one-dimensional character and he had no choice but to try and bring her back up to speed (unsuccessfully I might add) by making her imitate Tsunade. But even if he did this intentionally, isn't Naruto supposed to be the underdog that we all wanted to see catch up to Sasuke through sheer hard work and eventually get the village's respect? And he did that quite impressively I'd say. On the other hand, Sakura's struggle seems entirely contrived and pointless.

Just my opinion though! Haha.

Whether it would have made her a worthwhile character or not is, like you said, purely up to you. I was just arguing the claim that her development lacked a point even during Part 1, because it was really only after the Sasori fight that she truly fell flat.

Nodame
7th August 2014, 4:26 AM
Why can't people stay dead in this manga? I mean really Obito is dead and he was able to use his Sharingan to go back to the real world and help Kakashi? Yeah makes perfect sense :P .. I sound like one of the complainer types, but this really was stupid.

Anyway, At least Kakashi finally became useful again thanks to Obito. Kakashi being the 6th Hokage and Naruto the 7th? another proof that the manga won't end right after this war? I mean the manga has to end with Naruto being Hokage, so there must be another Arc in which Kakashi would be the 6th...

Akashin
7th August 2014, 4:45 AM
Why can't people stay dead in this manga? I mean really Obito is dead and he was able to use his Sharingan to go back to the real world and help Kakashi? Yeah makes perfect sense :P .. I sound like one of the complainer types, but this really was stupid.

Anyway, At least Kakashi finally became useful again thanks to Obito. Kakashi being the 6th Hokage and Naruto the 7th? another proof that the manga won't end right after this war? I mean the manga has to end with Naruto being Hokage, so there must be another Arc in which Kakashi would be the 6th...

To be fair, Obito's shenanigans here seemed spiritual rather than physical (evidenced by him and Kakashi appearing as they did during the Gaiden). But yeah, stupid all the same.

Platinum fan.
7th August 2014, 4:50 AM
Why can't people stay dead in this manga? I mean really Obito is dead and he was able to use his Sharingan to go back to the real world and help Kakashi? Yeah makes perfect sense :P .. I sound like one of the complainer types, but this really was stupid.

Anyway, At least Kakashi finally became useful again thanks to Obito. Kakashi being the 6th Hokage and Naruto the 7th? another proof that the manga won't end right after this war? I mean the manga has to end with Naruto being Hokage, so there must be another Arc in which Kakashi would be the 6th...

Obito didn't come back to life. He gave his Chakra and Sharingan too Kakashi. He's still dead though. This should have been done in the last chapter rather then this one. And they explained the Chakra time and space thing already. So it's not something they just pulled. Combine that with Obito's eyes always being able to warp through dimensions it actually fits better then most would give credit for. It's still a unneeded powerup for Kakashi though.

lolipiece
7th August 2014, 5:25 AM
To be fair, Obito's shenanigans here seemed spiritual rather than physical (evidenced by him and Kakashi appearing as they did during the Gaiden). But yeah, stupid all the same.

Sharinganingans.

And that's the problem. Haven't eye transplants always shown to be physical?

Akashin
7th August 2014, 7:02 AM
Sharinganingans.

And that's the problem. Haven't eye transplants always shown to be physical?

Oh, I know; and don't get me wrong, I wasn't defending it. I was just pointing out that Obito didn't literally come back from the dead, necessarily (though the whole thing probably would have made more sense if he had, whole other host of problems be damned).

Lorde
7th August 2014, 7:10 AM
Anyway, At least Kakashi finally became useful again thanks to Obito. Kakashi being the 6th Hokage and Naruto the 7th? another proof that the manga won't end right after this war? I mean the manga has to end with Naruto being Hokage, so there must be another Arc in which Kakashi would be the 6th...

I'm pretty sure that the whole "sixth Hokage" thing was just Obito's wish for Kakashi; that doesn't mean that Kakashi will actually become a Hokage. It's too late for that anyway.

Kamex
7th August 2014, 7:50 AM
I'm pretty sure that the whole "sixth Hokage" thing was just Obito's wish for Kakashi; that doesn't mean that Kakashi will actually become a Hokage. It's too late for that anyway.
I dunno, I think the way Obito pronounced Naruto and Kakashi as Hokage seemed to have more merit than just a throwaway wish.

And as far as having another arc for Kakashi to be the 6th Hokage, I don't think that's necessary. I would guess that Kakashi will be named 6th Hokage after this arc (at the end of the story), and The Last movie will either have Naruto as the new Hokage (since it's in the future), or Kakashi will continue to be Hokage and get replaced by Naruto within the movie. Not sure what to make of Tsunade though, it seems a little late for her to bite the dust now... maybe she'll remain Hokage and Kakashi will take her place between now and the movie. All speculation.

Platinum fan.
7th August 2014, 2:26 PM
Well it's not like Obito decides who becomes Hokage and who doesn't. I enjoy greatly that he didn't give a single thought about Sasuke being Hokage. Seriously what a joke. Hokage Sasuke! Anyway it is too late to kill off Tsunade. She lasted this long, why kill her now? But with there not being a 6th Hokage, according to Obito, I guess Danzo really wasn't a real Hokage. I really wanted a corrupt Hokage storyline. That would have been so much fun. Oh well. I still don't like that they're going to make this Naruto movie canon. It's almost like a desperate attempt to get fans who only read the manga to watch the movie. Now I have to sit through, the annoying voices of the Naruto cast and their over dramatic music. Thanks a lot.

Kamex
7th August 2014, 4:38 PM
I still don't like that they're going to make this Naruto movie canon. It's almost like a desperate attempt to get fans who only read the manga to watch the movie. Now I have to sit through, the annoying voices of the Naruto cast and their over dramatic music. Thanks a lot.
Hm, there are a lot of different voices and pieces of music, I'm surprised none of them appeal to you. You don't like Madara's or Pain's voice (in either the original or the dub)? And some of the sad music can really add depth and poignancy to a scene that was relatively straightforward and mediocre in the manga. I do think it's strange that the movie is canon though, maybe there'll be a manga version of it. I'm thinking that the manga will end on its own, and the movie will simply be "extra", so it's not completely necessary to watch. If I were a mangaka I wouldn't want some animation studio to decide what happens at the end of my story (if that's what's happening).

Platinum fan.
7th August 2014, 7:58 PM
Hm, there are a lot of different voices and pieces of music, I'm surprised none of them appeal to you. You don't like Madara's or Pain's voice (in either the original or the dub)? And some of the sad music can really add depth and poignancy to a scene that was relatively straightforward and mediocre in the manga. I do think it's strange that the movie is canon though, maybe there'll be a manga version of it. I'm thinking that the manga will end on its own, and the movie will simply be "extra", so it's not completely necessary to watch. If I were a mangaka I wouldn't want some animation studio to decide what happens at the end of my story (if that's what's happening).

Well it's more of the music then the voice acting. Some of the voice actors are better then others. I think my problem that turned me off to the anime was I made the mistake of watching all those endless fillers before part 2. That made me despise the anime. I only watched some of the fights in the part 2 anime to see them animated like Naruto vs Pain. I did not like how ugly the animation for that fight was. Especially when Naruto was in tailed beast mode. That was some of the ugliest animation I had seen. It was a insult to such a great fight! There's just a lot of bad blood between me and the anime. However that is not to say I will never check out a Naruto episode. Even a filler episode if it's good I will tune in to see. But I haven't seen a Naruto episode in near two years.

As far as the music goes, I mainly am talking about part 1. I thought some if not most of the music was too over the top. Some music was fitting like that music that played during Sasuke nearly getting killed saving Naruto from Haku. Or the music that played when Shukaku woke up when fighting Naruto and Gamabunta. That was pretty good too. Then there's just music that's too over the top, or fights that last longer then they should, like Hinata vs Pain. The fight ended perfectly in the manga, because it was Hinata's willingness to die for Naruto that was important, not how well she did in the fight. And it just feels like the drama is way stronger in the anime then in the manga. That's how it should be, but sometimes it gives me a headache. But again I will watch the anime if I hear good things about it, or they give me something to see that the manga could never do. So I won't outright never watch it. I just prefer to keep it small.

Lorde
7th August 2014, 9:02 PM
I dunno, I think the way Obito pronounced Naruto and Kakashi as Hokage seemed to have more merit than just a throwaway wish.

And as far as having another arc for Kakashi to be the 6th Hokage, I don't think that's necessary. I would guess that Kakashi will be named 6th Hokage after this arc (at the end of the story), and The Last movie will either have Naruto as the new Hokage (since it's in the future), or Kakashi will continue to be Hokage and get replaced by Naruto within the movie. Not sure what to make of Tsunade though, it seems a little late for her to bite the dust now... maybe she'll remain Hokage and Kakashi will take her place between now and the movie. All speculation.

Well Tsunade's still alive and she has no reason to retire just yet imo. So I really doubt that Kakashi will take over for her as the next Hokage is all.

Shneak
8th August 2014, 1:41 AM
Obito declaring Kakashi as the next hokage was definitely foreshadowing. Naruto is still a bit too young to go into office.

Tsunade's alive and all but I bet that her and the other kages are going to retire after the war, stating that they failed and they want to pass the torch to the next generation or whatever.

Kamex
8th August 2014, 3:43 AM
Well it's more of the music then the voice acting. Some of the voice actors are better then others. I think my problem that turned me off to the anime was I made the mistake of watching all those endless fillers before part 2. That made me despise the anime. I only watched some of the fights in the part 2 anime to see them animated like Naruto vs Pain. I did not like how ugly the animation for that fight was. Especially when Naruto was in tailed beast mode. That was some of the ugliest animation I had seen. It was a insult to such a great fight! There's just a lot of bad blood between me and the anime. However that is not to say I will never check out a Naruto episode. Even a filler episode if it's good I will tune in to see. But I haven't seen a Naruto episode in near two years.

As far as the music goes, I mainly am talking about part 1. I thought some if not most of the music was too over the top. Some music was fitting like that music that played during Sasuke nearly getting killed saving Naruto from Haku. Or the music that played when Shukaku woke up when fighting Naruto and Gamabunta. That was pretty good too. Then there's just music that's too over the top, or fights that last longer then they should, like Hinata vs Pain. The fight ended perfectly in the manga, because it was Hinata's willingness to die for Naruto that was important, not how well she did in the fight. And it just feels like the drama is way stronger in the anime then in the manga. That's how it should be, but sometimes it gives me a headache. But again I will watch the anime if I hear good things about it, or they give me something to see that the manga could never do. So I won't outright never watch it. I just prefer to keep it small.
Every now and again I'll have a minor issue with how the anime treats the source material (the manga), but for the most part I think they do a good job. I mean to be honest, even if they didn't do that great of a job, in my opinion it's still worth watching to see all of the 2-dimensional, black-and-white panels come to life in color and sound and everything. It imitates the excitement of real life a lot better. But I also happen to really like the opening and ending themes, most of the voices, just about all of the music, and a lot of the animation (ranges from okay to great), so I guess it's easier for me to swallow.


Obito declaring Kakashi as the next hokage was definitely foreshadowing. Naruto is still a bit too young to go into office.

Tsunade's alive and all but I bet that her and the other kages are going to retire after the war, stating that they failed and they want to pass the torch to the next generation or whatever.
Well Naruto isn't technically too young, since Gaara's been Hokage himself. And if you meant that Naruto is too naive or inexperienced, I would argue that isn't really true either anymore. But your theory about the kages retiring sounds plausible. Except for Gaara I'd say.

Hm, I wonder what will happen to the Tailed Beasts after everything is over. Will they disappear/die after thanking Naruto? Or maybe they'll be able to roam free in peace. Or maybe there will be a new group of Jinchuuriki (including Naruto and Killer Bee) that are considered allies and friends of their respective villages instead of loners and outcasts.

Maybe all of the kages (if there are new ones) will be Jinchuuriki!

Lorde
8th August 2014, 3:49 AM
Obito declaring Kakashi as the next hokage was definitely foreshadowing. Naruto is still a bit too young to go into office.

Tsunade's alive and all but I bet that her and the other kages are going to retire after the war, stating that they failed and they want to pass the torch to the next generation or whatever.

Kakashi himself said after the Gokage Summit arc that he wasn't suited for the position of Hokage and I doubt that Obito's wish for him will affect him, especially since Kakashi wants Naruto to fulfill his dream.

Platinum fan.
8th August 2014, 2:37 PM
Kakashi himself said after the Gokage Summit arc that he wasn't suited for the position of Hokage and I doubt that Obito's wish for him will affect him, especially since Kakashi wants Naruto to fulfill his dream.

Despite that I wouldn't have mind Kakashi being Hokage. Can't be any worse then Tsunade. But the time for that has past. Just give it to Naruto already. The only thing is we still haven't seen Naruto in a true leadership role yet. They could have shown him being a strong leader in the Madara/Kaguya fight, but he's either taking orders from Sasuke or making crazy moves. Nothing really shouts out a leader to me. I mean in that regard, Sasuke probably is more qualified as he is a natural leader. So leadership is a quality Naruto I feel still lacks.

Kamex
8th August 2014, 3:18 PM
Despite that I wouldn't have mind Kakashi being Hokage. Can't be any worse then Tsunade. But the time for that has past. Just give it to Naruto already. The only thing is we still haven't seen Naruto in a true leadership role yet. They could have shown him being a strong leader in the Madara/Kaguya fight, but he's either taking orders from Sasuke or making crazy moves. Nothing really shouts out a leader to me. I mean in that regard, Sasuke probably is more qualified as he is a natural leader. So leadership is a quality Naruto I feel still lacks.
He could be better, but I feel like he showed some leadership qualities in the way he handled most of the war. Having his clones in several places and being able to handle all these different situations and basically turn the tide of the war showed that he could be relied upon. Similar situation when he shared his chakra with everyone to keep the steam rolling against Obito, and even with the way he saved the village against Pain.

I suppose you could say he didn't give many orders during this time, but I don't remember Tsunade ever doing so until she got the role. I guess having his own cell to lead would do some good. Come to think of it, he did kind of coach Konohamaru if that counts.

Platinum fan.
8th August 2014, 5:44 PM
He could be better, but I feel like he showed some leadership qualities in the way he handled most of the war. Having his clones in several places and being able to handle all these different situations and basically turn the tide of the war showed that he could be relied upon. Similar situation when he shared his chakra with everyone to keep the steam rolling against Obito, and even with the way he saved the village against Pain.

I suppose you could say he didn't give many orders during this time, but I don't remember Tsunade ever doing so until she got the role. I guess having his own cell to lead would do some good. Come to think of it, he did kind of coach Konohamaru if that counts.

That was being useful. Not exactly being a leader. Naruto didn't command anyone from Konoha to do this or that. It was his clones doing all the work. Naruto's useful but being useful doesn't make a leader. Sharing his chakra with everyone was helpful, but how does that make him anymore a leader then anyone else? He's got the power for Hokage. He's beyond all the other Gokage, but is he a leader? I still haven't seen it yet. He's a great solider, but not a leader.

As far as Tsunade goes, that's kinda unfair. Tsunade was only introduced into the story to become the new Hokage. She never appeared in the manga outside a flashback as a unnamed kunoichi. You could say she bossed around Shizune, I suppose. But we don't know how much of a leader she was during her time as a active Konoha shinobi. The war arc really didn't show Naruto off as a leader and I think they really should have done that if he is aiming to be Hokage and if that is still the desired goal. He inspires many, but is he a true leader ready to lead a nation?