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Profesco
29th August 2014, 11:01 PM
It's so tough to keep track of this series anymore.

So the fact of sealing Kaguya was to construct a moon around her? She's still there, just stuck inside those rocks in some alternate dimension? And Zetsu - the morphable, malleable, shadow-being - is also inside that moon? I am unclear on how exactly that amounts to defeating Kaguya. In a series where burying characters under humongous rocks does not guarantee their death even half of the time, how is this meant to convince us she's done for (let alone Zetsu, who can travel through solid earth anyway)? Her being in a separate dimension is also not exactly comforting given that she was the one who originally created and/or traveled to that dimension.

Is Kaguya supposed to be like Shedinja, where you can throw all kinds of powerful moves at her and they'll just bluntly fail, but once you make contact with the one particular thing she's susceptible to she goes down like a wet paper towel?


And I'm confused about that rabbit beast, too. It came out of her body (and apparently spit Madara from its mouth like a popcorn kernel) looking just like the other tailed beasts, who all took on their physical forms. So are we to assume it took a form like the others? Or do we assume it alone simply evaporated into nothing?


Then Hagoromo used a summoning jutsu to bring all the previous Kage back from "the pure land" - this series' afterlife? Forget for a moment my understanding that summoning jutsu require some sort of contract or marking applied to the summoned beforehand, but apparently now souls can be brought back from the afterlife? I'm also wondering why, if this Hagoromo guy has still existed all this time and still has these miraculous death-defying and interdimensional powers - including the chakras needed to seal Kaguya - then why ... has this whole series happened? Couldn't he do a single thing about the events of the world?


_____________________________________________


As far as Sakura goes, I think the problem is that we don't know how to properly value her kind of power. With characters like Naruto and Sasuke, we can see them training and can see them getting stronger because their powers are essentially about physical action. They are offensive characters who grow by defeating others. Sakura is a character whose skill set is defensive: she is a strategist, a healer, a supporter. It is harder to see explicit defensive growth. Take her forehead chakra thingy, the 100 Healings. How does she train for that? By concentrating chakra on a single focal point - essentially, by thinking. Physically, visually, there is no representation of that, except perhaps to show her with closed eyes and a slightly furrowed brow. And her healing powers must be shown to improve by the relatively vague measures of how long she can do it, how bad an injury she can do it on, how many people she can heal simultaneously, and so on. Defensive power will always appear weaker than offensive power by its very nature, but that doesn't mean it's not just as skillful or great.

I think we are justified in being generous when we compare Sakura to the rest of Team 7. One thing we all should agree on is that the author's execution in showing/explaining/proving Sakura's strength has been poor. Maybe he doesn't know how to show defensive power in a way that satisfied him and so didn't even try, or maybe he really is just terrible at writing for female characters. Either way, Sakura's story has not been written as well as Naruto's or Sasuke's. Yet at the same time, we should all agree that the author's intent has been made clear: we are supposed to understand that Sakura is presently an equally great member of Team 7, or that she is as close to Naruto's/Sasuke's equal as anyone could get. As I say above, proofs of this are thin on the ground, sure, but I think that's a fair reason for us to make the most of those that do exist.

Take Sakura's head-punch to Kaguya. Sure, it was simple compared to what the other two were doing, but maybe we shouldn't think that just anyone else could have done it. Maybe that punch only worked because of Sakura's Tsunade-style strength. We've seen Kaguya shrug off some good blows, and we also agree to regard her as the yet-strongest villain, so it is reasonable to think only Kage-level strength could knock her back. We know that Tsunade is physically stronger than the Raikage, and we know that Sakura is as physically strong as Tsunade; therefore, Sakura is physically stronger than the Raikage, which is an impressive feat for a regular old teenager (and, given this manga, a female one to boot). (Perhaps someone who can quote chapters can tell us whether there is reason to think Sakura is even stronger than Tsunade.)

In regards to her medical ninjutsu: We know that Tsunade was regarded as the best medical ninja in history, and we know that the most obvious symbols of her strength as a medical ninja were her 100 Healings jutsu and her ability to distance-heal through the Katsuyu summon (which works off the summoner's power, not Katsuyu's). Now we know that Sakura can summon Katsuyu and distance heal as well, and we also know that Sakura has surpassed Tsunade's 100 Healings, e.g. that she could do it earlier/faster than Tsunade (and that she can use it to more effect since she does not have to apportion some of it to make herself look younger). So we would be justified in thinking that Sakura is now the best medical ninja in the series.


I've tried to give the best case for Sakura's greatness. The point is to persuade others that Sakura deserves for us to consider her as great as we consider Naruto and Sasuke (despite the fact that the author has done less work to convince us so). And - crucially - that we need not consider her great in exactly the same way. You could figure out who is the world's greatest biologist, and you could figure out who is the world's greatest physicist, but you would not be able to determine which is greater than the other, for although each is doing science, they are doing it in different ways and with different tools and produce different contributions to knowledge.

Void Ventus
29th August 2014, 11:14 PM
Or Kishi could seriously troll us and this whole fight turns out to be Naruto's infinite tsukuyomi dream and the real fight is still yet to happen ¬_¬

Everything seemed a bit too 'sunshine and rainbows' for my liking.

But getting hit by the IT means your dreams come true. Naruto's dream is to become Hokage, not to seal Kaguya. And personally, I wouldn't mind if this is it. No more bigger baddie, as Kaguya was already the highest you can go. No more Hagoromo "Psyche, BI+CHES!" trick and turning out to be the final FINAL enemy, or having Orochimaru quickly awaken from IT, steal Madara's body, and become the super mega ultra enemy that everyone will have to fight once and for all. Just have everyone free from IT, have all the past Kages talk with the current Kages and negotiate to make the Shinobi world finally unified, have the dead go with Hagoromo to Ninja Heaven, obligatory Naruto vs Sasuke, and that's it.

BTW, do Hiruzen and Minato finally get to go to Ninja Heaven? They were freed from RDS, so they're not trapped souls anymore.

^not going to quote all that though
She's stuck/sealed in that moon. She's trapped in the center of it, and all that pressure is preventing anything from getting out. She's STILL not dead, just sealed. So in the FAAAAAAAAAAAR future, when some diabolical maniac stumbles upon it, and somehow manages to destroy it, Kaguya will be revived once more.

She could have avoided getting hit by the trio, but it seems she was already running low on Chakra.

Hagoromo and his brother did the sealing way back then. Seeing as how they are separated, he couldn't have done anything. So he waited until the right time until he met two men who are descendants of Ashura and Indra were fighting for a single threat to save the Shinobi world. Also, isn't he technically dead? He's just a spirit doing spirit stuff now. It doesn't look like he can fight anymore.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
30th August 2014, 1:05 AM
The dead Kages didn't help so much with the final Kaguya fight. They did when Trolldara was around. Which just makes me wonder what was the point of the dead Kage? I still would have much preferred the alliance trying to help, even if by just support. The dead Hokage imo just took slots away from others that could have helped.
It did kind of feel like that though, I expected some epic jutsu to be given to them to assist in the battle against Kaguya, but there wasn't. Though it was kind cool to see all the Kage being summoned to help the others escape.

Profesco, your post is just amazing. You said all the things I had totally forgotten about, I thank you.

Platinum fan.
30th August 2014, 3:12 AM
Or Kishi could seriously troll us and this whole fight turns out to be Naruto's infinite tsukuyomi dream and the real fight is still yet to happen ¬_¬

Everything seemed a bit too 'sunshine and rainbows' for my liking.

Ha! I remember throwing that idea around when Obito was still the main villain. What a troll move that would be.

All I want is Naruto vs Sasuke. I was promised this clash. It's time for them to fight over who the new president of the Super Freak Club is. With Madara hopefully gone, they need a new president of that club. And yes, it still needs to happen. Even if Orochimaru has to take over Sasuke's body to make it happen. I still detest that Kishi dropped Sasuke's whole kill Konoha thing. It was the one thing I was looking most forward to after the Gokage Summit. I would have loved to have seen Sasuke and Naruto truly have a epic fight with Sasuke determined to kill them all and Naruto forced to make a choice. Sasuke or the Village. I feel cheated! Arrgh! If Naruto vs Sasuke doesn't happen you can all expect a rant from me!

Shneak
30th August 2014, 3:16 AM
I have a bad feeling that Hagoromo is the final villain and that the war isn't over yet. The ending just seemed too perfect in that Kaguya was sealed too easily while several things are still unanswered. :x

Wait - do we know if Hagoromo is mortal? I mean he's not a ghost like the other Kages but he's not a zombie like the Hokages. If he's tangible then it's possible.

Kamex
30th August 2014, 5:16 AM
No. The Chibaku Tensei is in the other dimension. Hagoromo summoned them back to the real world with the help of all the dead Kages after.
Oh right. If he had this power and knew where they were in their fight then I don't know why he didn't save Sasuke earlier before Obito came up with his plan.


I have a bad feeling that Hagoromo is the final villain and that the war isn't over yet. The ending just seemed too perfect in that Kaguya was sealed too easily while several things are still unanswered. :x
In my opinion there are too many parallels between Naruto and Hagoromo for him to be a villain. I think we're just speeding to an end of the story.


So the fact of sealing Kaguya was to construct a moon around her? She's still there, just stuck inside those rocks in some alternate dimension? And Zetsu - the morphable, malleable, shadow-being - is also inside that moon? I am unclear on how exactly that amounts to defeating Kaguya. In a series where burying characters under humongous rocks does not guarantee their death even half of the time, how is this meant to convince us she's done for (let alone Zetsu, who can travel through solid earth anyway)? Her being in a separate dimension is also not exactly comforting given that she was the one who originally created and/or traveled to that dimension.
I was under the impression that they were sealed, not simply trapped in a rock. I'm assuming those are two different things.

Also Profesco, I have to add that it isn't just Sakura's skills that aren't convincingly level with her two teammates. It's also her place in the overarching story. Naruto and Sasuke are the two MAIN main characters; they're two sides of the same coin. The Senju/Uchiha conflict is at the very center of the entire story, and Naruto and Sasuke's rivalry embodies that. They also have a lot of plot power because of the Kyuubi and the Sharingan. That makes them a lot more relevant to all the major storylines, along with many minor ones. AND they have lots of connections with important characters, villains, family members, etc. I'm probably forgetting other elements as well.

Sakura pretty much has none of this going for her. She's just kind of the third wheel of Naruto and Sasuke's (platonic) relationship. The main story cares very little for her. I'm sorry, but it's true. That's why it's hard to elevate her to Naruto and Sasuke's level, even under the presumption that they are in the same caliber of skill.

But I agree that Kishi WANTS us to consider all of Team 7 on the same level, and I guess that's all that matters.

Void Ventus
30th August 2014, 6:26 AM
Oh right. If he had this power and knew where they were in their fight then I don't know why he didn't save Sasuke earlier before Obito came up with his plan.
He needed to talk to the four Hokages. Why are all the dead Kages needed for this summoning to work? Are you required to master the "Summon from Another Dimension" Jutsu when you become Kage? Does this mean the Kages knew about different dimensions this whole time? I don't know, we don't know, but just accept it.


In my opinion there are too many parallels between Naruto and Hagoromo for him to be a villain. I think we're just speeding to an end of the story.
That's what I'd want. The ending is coming. Don't force any more sudden twist and create another baddie stronger than the Goddess of all Chakra.


I was under the impression that they were sealed, not simply trapped in a rock. I'm assuming those are two different things.

Also Profesco, I have to add that it isn't just Sakura's skills that aren't convincingly level with her two teammates. It's also her place in the overarching story. Naruto and Sasuke are the two MAIN main characters; they're two sides of the same coin. The Senju/Uchiha conflict is at the very center of the entire story, and Naruto and Sasuke's rivalry embodies that. They also have a lot of plot power because of the Kyuubi and the Sharingan. That makes them a lot more relevant to all the major storylines, along with many minor ones. AND they have lots of connections with important characters, villains, family members, etc. I'm probably forgetting other elements as well.

Sakura pretty much has none of this going for her. She's just kind of the third wheel of Naruto and Sasuke's (platonic) relationship. The main story cares very little for her. I'm sorry, but it's true. That's why it's hard to elevate her to Naruto and Sasuke's level, even under the presumption that they are in the same caliber of skill.

But I agree that Kishi WANTS us to consider all of Team 7 on the same level, and I guess that's all that matters.
That's what I thought too. She's sealed inside Chibaku Tensei. The pressure is preventing anything from escaping.

As for Sakura, since she participated in the final battle alongside Kakashi, Naruto, and Sasuke, she'll be as renowned as the other three. Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura are also the Sannin's successors, so they've got that going for them.

Anyone have guesses on how they'll resolve Sasuke? He threatened the Gokage, so he's got a SERIOUS CRIME on his head, worthy of being put on death trial. He's also an accomplice of Akatsuki. However, he did help in the war and save the Shinobi world. Is that going to be enough to erase all his crimes and wipe the slate clean, and be able to live in the Leaf again? Or will they wipe his slate clean, but he can never enter any of the villages, thus making him an outcast and forcing him to build a village of his own?

Profesco
30th August 2014, 6:33 AM
Also Profesco, I have to add that it isn't just Sakura's skills that aren't convincingly level with her two teammates. It's also her place in the overarching story. Naruto and Sasuke are the two MAIN main characters; they're two sides of the same coin. The Senju/Uchiha conflict is at the very center of the entire story, and Naruto and Sasuke's rivalry embodies that. They also have a lot of plot power because of the Kyuubi and the Sharingan. That makes them a lot more relevant to all the major storylines, along with many minor ones. AND they have lots of connections with important characters, villains, family members, etc. I'm probably forgetting other elements as well.

Sakura pretty much has none of this going for her. She's just kind of the third wheel of Naruto and Sasuke's (platonic) relationship. The main story cares very little for her. I'm sorry, but it's true. That's why it's hard to elevate her to Naruto and Sasuke's level, even under the presumption that they are in the same caliber of skill.

But I agree that Kishi WANTS us to consider all of Team 7 on the same level, and I guess that's all that matters.

Oh no, I agree with you 100%. That was just what I gathered to be the best possible case for considering Sakura as skilled a ninja as her teammates. If somewhere I implied that she was as central or focal or 'special' a character as Naruto and Sasuke, then mea culpa; I should've written a caveat disclaiming that implication (but the post was already so very big, aha :p). But yeah, this is utterly the story of Naruto and Sasuke. No need to apologize for pointing it out.



Edit: I have no idea what the plan for Sasuke is. If I had to guess, I'd lean towards the 'forgive and embrace' route. The Obito treatment, you could say. But there is little confidence in my guess. All I care about is getting our final Naruto vs. Sasuke fight, like Platinum fan. I'm disgruntled that by flipping Sasuke's switch back from Bad to Good they erased the passion and motivation that would have fueled a serious fight before (rivalry for the seat of Hokage just isn't the same degree of opposition), but I still want to see them finally settle things.

Platinum fan.
30th August 2014, 3:24 PM
Oh right. If he had this power and knew where they were in their fight then I don't know why he didn't save Sasuke earlier before Obito came up with his plan.


In my opinion there are too many parallels between Naruto and Hagoromo for him to be a villain. I think we're just speeding to an end of the story.


I was under the impression that they were sealed, not simply trapped in a rock. I'm assuming those are two different things.

Also Profesco, I have to add that it isn't just Sakura's skills that aren't convincingly level with her two teammates. It's also her place in the overarching story. Naruto and Sasuke are the two MAIN main characters; they're two sides of the same coin. The Senju/Uchiha conflict is at the very center of the entire story, and Naruto and Sasuke's rivalry embodies that. They also have a lot of plot power because of the Kyuubi and the Sharingan. That makes them a lot more relevant to all the major storylines, along with many minor ones. AND they have lots of connections with important characters, villains, family members, etc. I'm probably forgetting other elements as well.

Sakura pretty much has none of this going for her. She's just kind of the third wheel of Naruto and Sasuke's (platonic) relationship. The main story cares very little for her. I'm sorry, but it's true. That's why it's hard to elevate her to Naruto and Sasuke's level, even under the presumption that they are in the same caliber of skill.

But I agree that Kishi WANTS us to consider all of Team 7 on the same level, and I guess that's all that matters.

Without a doubt Kishi wants us to believe Team 7 are equals now. That was the entire point of Sakura being around in the Kaguya fight. Kaguya is the Hanzo to their Sannin. I just hope Tsunade wasn't this far behind Orochimaru and Jiraiya when they became Sannin. But I've already said everything I need to on the matter. Team 7 reuniting as equals should have been one of the biggest moments in the series. And while it was, I'm always going to look at as rushed and not built up the right way.

As far as what happens to Sasuke after the war. I bet his crimes are being swept under the rug. In addition to Team 7's new "equal" power level, Kishi's also trying to erase all the bad stuff Sasuke has done and even trying to justify some of it now. Hence why Karin and Team Baka flock back to him after a simple word of sorry from him, even though he tried to kill Karin and left the other two for dead. I bet Raikage and the others just forgive him after helping save the world and being a Sannin now. Team 7 can do no wrong in Kishi's new world.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
30th August 2014, 3:59 PM
I'm curious, if Sasuke wants to become Hokage, don't the villagers have to decide like they did for Kakashi and Danzo? If someone like Shikamaru were to disagree even if Sasuke has assisted in saving the world and nominated Naruto, I wonder how Sasuke would react. Maybe this is how the fight begins.

justinjiaxinghu
30th August 2014, 4:26 PM
Pretty sure Kishi has to drag the resolution on for at least 10 more chapters (I mean, who ends Mangas at like the 693rd chap) but yes, I agree with Platinum Fan.



NARUTO VS SASUKE HYPE PLS

Platinum fan.
30th August 2014, 5:55 PM
I'm still not thrilled over the idea of Naruto and Sasuke fighting over the Hokage seat. It would just feel forced and anyone who thinks Sasuke would be a good Hokage really hasn't watched the character. He only cares about his dead Uchiha clan, not the villagers themselves. Not long ago he swore to kill them all, but I guess Kishi's trying to make us forget all that. That ain't happening. Just look at the Kaguya fight. He pretty much called Kakashi and Sakura trash because they were in the same fight as him and Naruto. I would think a leader would try to encourage his team rather then tell them how useless they are in a fight. And you want that as Hokage? I'm sorry but Sasuke as Hokage has got to be a joke. This really can't be serious. How can anyone take that seriously? I'd laugh if some actually wanted Sasuke as Hokage. The guy leaves the village for the man that killed their Hokage, disrespects the only people that put up with his crap (Naruto, Sakura, Kakashi) swears to kill everyone in the village, joined Obito's Akatsuki and helped the bad guys obtain the power of Eight-Tails, and is all around a unfriendly guy to be around. But hey, if Karin can sweep her brush with death under the rug and forgive I guess Konoha can too.

Kamex
30th August 2014, 6:17 PM
I dunno, I still think Kakashi might become Hokage considering the last words that accompanied his parting gift. Not because I think it makes sense for Kakashi to become Hokage next (haven't really thought about it much), but because it seems like that's what the author was trying to hint at there. Otherwise Obito saying that dramatically would be awkwardly placed. Then again, maybe Kishi is just trying to screw around with us just like he does with the love triangles and final villains: have as many options as possible on the table, then try to surprise everyone down the road. If Sasuke and Obito had never mentioned the Hokage seat during these last battles then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Lorde
30th August 2014, 8:12 PM
If Kakashi's double Sharingan and Susano'o were only temporary, I can't see him as Hokage since he'd be almost nothing without his borrowed power. A Hokage has to be incredibly strong imho. Not to mention that the whole manga is about Naruto and his dream of being Hokage; why would Kakashi have to usurp his student's dream?

lolipiece
30th August 2014, 9:30 PM
Except there's nothing to stop Naruto from becoming Hokage later.

Void Ventus
30th August 2014, 9:38 PM
If Kakashi's double Sharingan and Susano'o were only temporary, I can't see him as Hokage since he'd be almost nothing without his borrowed power. A Hokage has to be incredibly strong imho. Not to mention that the whole manga is about Naruto and his dream of being Hokage; why would Kakashi have to usurp his student's dream?
Naruto's and Sasuke's Yin and Yang powers that Hagoromo gave them were temporary too. Even without that (N&S are still much much stronger), Kakashi is still a competent and strong ninja. He's had the reputation of being the "Copy Ninja" before the series even began, he's been an Anbu, and the whole village respects him. And while that is Naruto's dream, he's still too stupid to become Hokage. He's going to rule an entire village, and be in the forefront when discussing government rules and such. Do you really think he'd be able to do that? Shikaku and Asuma already told Shikamura to be Naruto's right hand man should he be elected Hokage, but even a genius like him would need to teach Naruto how to partake in secret government discussions. Right now, it's Kakashi who fits the bill of Hokage. Strong, capable, well liked, and intellectual. Maybe in several years, Naruto will have matured, learned from Shikamaru, and become Hokage. Besides, he's still young. He's not even 18 years old yet, which even if they have a different rule in the Narutoverse, isn't old enough to vote yet.

Lorde
30th August 2014, 9:45 PM
Except there's nothing to stop Naruto from becoming Hokage later.

And what exactly stops him from becoming Hokage now? He's already one of the strongest ninja around and the hero of the war.

Platinum fan.
30th August 2014, 9:59 PM
I wouldn't have mind Kakashi as Hokage. I still think he should have gotten a run with it after Danzo. As for being incredibly strong...well outside Sharingan he's not OP at all. But really look at the current Hokage. Tsunade wouldn't crack my all time elite shinobi list either compared to A/Raikage and Oonoki. And Minato wasn't as broken as his legend made him out to be. If anything Minato felt more like a Kakashi style fighter. A shinobi with many tricks and a few unique jutsu abilities like teleporting and a imperfect Rasengan. And Minato's considered one of the all time best Hokage ever. So I think Kakashi had a chance.

The problem now is, the time has come and gone. I agree with anyone who says Kakashi is more qualified then Naruto and Sasuke as Hokage. But at the same time I feel like the time to do it would have been after Danzo. Just let Naruto and Sasuke feud over it. Far as I'm concern, Kakashi already is Gokage level, even if a low level one.

Void Ventus
30th August 2014, 9:59 PM
And what exactly stops him from becoming Hokage now? He's already one of the strongest ninja around and the hero of the war.

Like I said, Naruto's stupid. You can't learn politics in a day, even with the help from a genius like Shikamaru. Being a Hokage doesn't mean just being strong. You also need to know how to rule your village, and be able to discuss with the other Kages on government details. Kakashi is not only one of the strongest Shinobis in the Leaf, but also has the knowledge to know how to deal in politics.


I wouldn't have mind Kakashi as Hokage. I still think he should have gotten a run with it after Danzo. As for being incredibly strong...well outside Sharingan he's not OP at all. But really look at the current Hokage. Tsunade wouldn't crack my all time elite shinobi list either compared to A/Raikage and Oonoki. And Minato wasn't as broken as his legend made him out to be. If anything Minato felt more like a Kakashi style fighter. A shinobi with many tricks and a few unique jutsu abilities like teleporting and a imperfect Rasengan. And Minato's considered one of the all time best Hokage ever. So I think Kakashi had a chance.

The problem now is, the time has come and gone. I agree with anyone who says Kakashi is more qualified then Naruto and Sasuke as Hokage. But at the same time I feel like the time to do it would have been after Danzo. Just let Naruto and Sasuke feud over it. Far as I'm concern, Kakashi already is Gokage level, even if a low level one.

Why would you remove the Sharingan from Kakashi? Sure, he was given it instead of being born with it, but he's had it for more than half his life. He's had it for so long, it's technically a part of him now. Why not remove Kurama from Naruto? He wasn't born with it, Minato just sealed half of Kurama's chakra minutes after his birth. Why not remove Yamato's Wood Style? He wasn't born with it, but rather experimented on by Orochimaru. And Kakashi was already chosen as the 6th Hokage after the Pain arc. Tsunade was unconscious, the Leaf officials decided to nominate Kakashi, everyone agreed, and he even got as far as almost getting his face plastered so they could have gotten his dimensions to put on the mountain. Tsunade regained consciousness though, so Kakashi's inauguration was cancelled.

Kamex
30th August 2014, 10:13 PM
The thing is, Gaara became Kazekage with no apparent negative consequences due to his age. So even if Naruto isn't as mature as Gaara, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to see Naruto become Hokage as well. Realistically it might be hard to believe, but I can see the story doing that. Although I think it might make more sense to have Kakashi be Hokage now and Naruto become the 7th after a timeskip or something (even if the Part III is only one chapter long or is only included in the upcoming movie).

This still means Tsunade has to resign or something though.

And Sasuke can just suck it cuz he doesn't deserve to be Hokage. Even Madara deserved to be the First Hokage more (not now, obviously)... Well, maybe. Lol.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
30th August 2014, 10:18 PM
Probably so, it's not like this is the first time Kakashi has been told to become the Hokage, so it wouldn't be out of the blue. Though I do find it like a slap in the face to Naruto, Obito first tells Naruto to become the Hokage before he dies, then he tells Kakashi as well. It wouldn't matter too much to me who becomes Hokage between the two, but I rather it be Naruto.

Lorde
30th August 2014, 10:30 PM
Like I said, Naruto's stupid. You can't learn politics in a day, even with the help from a genius like Shikamaru. Being a Hokage doesn't mean just being strong. You also need to know how to rule your village, and be able to discuss with the other Kages on government details. Kakashi is not only one of the strongest Shinobis in the Leaf, but also has the knowledge to know how to deal in politics.

I honestly can't imagine Naruto ever having knowledge like that even if he has to "mature" for years before getting the Hokage title. But honestly, I don't think it matters anyway. He doesn't need a complex mind to rule the village imo.

Void Ventus
30th August 2014, 10:39 PM
The thing is, Gaara became Kazekage with no apparent negative consequences due to his age. So even if Naruto isn't as mature as Gaara, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to see Naruto become Hokage as well. Realistically it might be hard to believe, but I can see the story doing that. Although I think it might make more sense to have Kakashi be Hokage now and Naruto become the 7th after a timeskip or something (even if the Part III is only one chapter long or is only included in the upcoming movie).

This still means Tsunade has to resign or something though.

And Sasuke can just suck it cuz he doesn't deserve to be Hokage. Even Madara deserved to be the First Hokage more (not now, obviously)... Well, maybe. Lol.
Ahh, that's right. Forgot about Gaara. Still, he was surrounded by officials. His dad (although he hated his own son) was Kazekage (who was actually alive for ~12-13 years of his young life), and had two other siblings who taught him things. Naruto on the other hand has no grasp on politics whatsoever for all we know (unless Jiraiya taught him that along with their 2 1/2 years of training). I doubt there's going to be another timeskip season. I'd be fine with a Timeskip in the last few episodes to see where the characters are then.

It's fine if Tsunade steps down. She's old, and Sakura already knows most (if not all) of her jutsus and knowledge. I bet seeing Dan again might influence in her stepping down and giving the Hokage role to Kakashi.


Probably so, it's not like this is the first time Kakashi has been told to become the Hokage, so it wouldn't be out of the blue. Though I do find it like a slap in the face to Naruto, Obito first tells Naruto to become the Hokage before he dies, then he tells Kakashi as well. It wouldn't matter too much to me who becomes Hokage between the two, but I rather it be Naruto.
The way that was told was horrible. Obito about to die, tells Naruto to be Hokage, then dies, meets Rin. Next chapter, WHOOOPS! Sorry, my bad, Rin! Forgot to tell Kakashi something, and how stupid of me to forget to give him my eye! That would have been bad TROLOLOLOLOL


I honestly can't imagine Naruto ever having knowledge like that even if he has to "mature" for years before getting the Hokage title. But honestly, I don't think it matters anyway. He doesn't need a complex mind to rule the village imo.

No, of course not. He'll have Shikamaru making "complex" decisions for him. But ultimately, Naruto's responsible for everything. Besides, it's not just the Leaf he's worrying about. He has to deal with negotiations and other politician stuff that happens behind the scenes. Even if the ninja world is finally going to unite after this, he still needs to be smart enough to actually contribute to discussions, rather than just Talk-No-Jutsuing everyone.

Platinum fan.
31st August 2014, 1:36 AM
Like I said, Naruto's stupid. You can't learn politics in a day, even with the help from a genius like Shikamaru. Being a Hokage doesn't mean just being strong. You also need to know how to rule your village, and be able to discuss with the other Kages on government details. Kakashi is not only one of the strongest Shinobis in the Leaf, but also has the knowledge to know how to deal in politics.



Why would you remove the Sharingan from Kakashi? Sure, he was given it instead of being born with it, but he's had it for more than half his life. He's had it for so long, it's technically a part of him now. Why not remove Kurama from Naruto? He wasn't born with it, Minato just sealed half of Kurama's chakra minutes after his birth. Why not remove Yamato's Wood Style? He wasn't born with it, but rather experimented on by Orochimaru. And Kakashi was already chosen as the 6th Hokage after the Pain arc. Tsunade was unconscious, the Leaf officials decided to nominate Kakashi, everyone agreed, and he even got as far as almost getting his face plastered so they could have gotten his dimensions to put on the mountain. Tsunade regained consciousness though, so Kakashi's inauguration was cancelled.

Was this aimed at me? Huh...when did I say anything about removing Kakashi's Sharingan? I just said without it he's not Overpowered. I never said anything about removing it. IMO when Kishi actual made Kakashi lose his Sharingan the first time I thought it was dumb and poorly done too. But I didn't say anything about removing the Sharingan from Kakashi. It's probably more his eye then Obito's at this point. Hah. Now I remember the chapter when Trolldara stole his eye and could magically use it to do Kamui. I also remember rooting for Sakura to hold off Madara by herself until Naruto arrived. Who knew a few chapters later Sakura would be smacking Kaguya? If only that was Madara...and right in his face. Yes, I don't like Madara very much.

As far as the Hokage thing goes I don't know. I'm not saying Kakashi's not worthy of Hokage, because again, I think he's one of the best in the series to be honest. To have lasted this long with his secondary Sharingan and lack of Uchiha body is quite impressive. So without a doubt I consider Kakashi one of the best. And honestly I would have rather have seen Naruto with his who Genin Squad before he made the leap to Hokage. It's not a requirement, but I always wanted to see Naruto as leader of a squad before being Hokage.

Void Ventus
31st August 2014, 2:44 AM
Was this aimed at me? Huh...when did I say anything about removing Kakashi's Sharingan? I just said without it he's not Overpowered. I never said anything about removing it. IMO when Kishi actual made Kakashi lose his Sharingan the first time I thought it was dumb and poorly done too. But I didn't say anything about removing the Sharingan from Kakashi. It's probably more his eye then Obito's at this point. Hah. Now I remember the chapter when Trolldara stole his eye and could magically use it to do Kamui. I also remember rooting for Sakura to hold off Madara by herself until Naruto arrived. Who knew a few chapters later Sakura would be smacking Kaguya? If only that was Madara...and right in his face. Yes, I don't like Madara very much.

As far as the Hokage thing goes I don't know. I'm not saying Kakashi's not worthy of Hokage, because again, I think he's one of the best in the series to be honest. To have lasted this long with his secondary Sharingan and lack of Uchiha body is quite impressive. So without a doubt I consider Kakashi one of the best. And honestly I would have rather have seen Naruto with his who Genin Squad before he made the leap to Hokage. It's not a requirement, but I always wanted to see Naruto as leader of a squad before being Hokage.

When I said remove, I meant in terms of usage, not literally removing it. You said "outside Sharingan". Why disregard something that has been a part of him for over a decade? That's being biased. If you're gonna disregard one character's ability, then you also have to disregard everyone else's.

Why not be happy with Kakashi being Hokage? The dude has already been chosen as the 6th Hokage. He has all the requirements to be Hokage. He's certainly better fit to be Hokage than Naruto.

Kamex
31st August 2014, 4:22 AM
When I said remove, I meant in terms of usage, not literally removing it. You said "outside Sharingan". Why disregard something that has been a part of him for over a decade? That's being biased. If you're gonna disregard one character's ability, then you also have to disregard everyone else's.

Why not be happy with Kakashi being Hokage? The dude has already been chosen as the 6th Hokage. He has all the requirements to be Hokage. He's certainly better fit to be Hokage than Naruto.
I assume he's considering Kakashi without his Sharingan because it's a possibility after this arc. We're not certain yet if Kakashi will continue to have Obito's otherworldy-transferred Sharingan, right? At least, I didn't notice if he still had them after Kaguya was defeated.

Void Ventus
31st August 2014, 4:47 AM
I assume he's considering Kakashi without his Sharingan because it's a possibility after this arc. We're not certain yet if Kakashi will continue to have Obito's otherworldy-transferred Sharingan, right? At least, I didn't notice if he still had them after Kaguya was defeated.

Ahh okay, I get it now. It's a possibility, but Obito did tell Kakashi that he's going to be the 6th Hokage. Without the Sharingan, what does good ol' Scarecrow have? His dogs, Lightning Blade, intellect, and only one eye. He also has decent chakra, but that's also even without the Sharingan. He's famous as being the "Copy Ninja", and without the Sharingan, he'd probably still be at least an A-rank Ninja, but there are plenty more ninjas who can beat him then. I'm gonna guess he'll keep that eye, but I guess we'll see in the upcoming releases.

Kamex
31st August 2014, 6:35 AM
Ahh okay, I get it now. It's a possibility, but Obito did tell Kakashi that he's going to be the 6th Hokage. Without the Sharingan, what does good ol' Scarecrow have? His dogs, Lightning Blade, intellect, and only one eye. He also has decent chakra, but that's also even without the Sharingan. He's famous as being the "Copy Ninja", and without the Sharingan, he'd probably still be at least an A-rank Ninja, but there are plenty more ninjas who can beat him then. I'm gonna guess he'll keep that eye, but I guess we'll see in the upcoming releases.
Do you mean he'll keep only one Sharingan? I don't know if that would make sense, since the fact that his eyes didn't match was basically corrected by Naruto. That is, unless everything Naruto fixed with his Six Paths power will be restored to its previous state.

Personally, I hope he either has neither eye or both eyes. I just think it would be nice to see some sort of change in him after this battle, like a new Kakashi. That can mean either he continues on a new legacy with two normal eyes for the first time since he was 13 or whatever, or Obito has improved him a second time with two Sharingan eyes, almost like his gift is now "complete". If he just goes back to having one Sharingan, it'll feel like he's the same old Kakashi and he hasn't really made any type of progress.

Not to mention, I can imagine a new Kakashi wearing the Hokage garb with a pair of Sharingan. That's if he does become Hokage and keeps both eyes. Although, I can't remember if having both Sharingan activated and uncovered drains his energy even more than the one did...?

Void Ventus
31st August 2014, 9:19 AM
Do you mean he'll keep only one Sharingan? I don't know if that would make sense, since the fact that his eyes didn't match was basically corrected by Naruto. That is, unless everything Naruto fixed with his Six Paths power will be restored to its previous state.

Personally, I hope he either has neither eye or both eyes. I just think it would be nice to see some sort of change in him after this battle, like a new Kakashi. That can mean either he continues on a new legacy with two normal eyes for the first time since he was 13 or whatever, or Obito has improved him a second time with two Sharingan eyes, almost like his gift is now "complete". If he just goes back to having one Sharingan, it'll feel like he's the same old Kakashi and he hasn't really made any type of progress.

Not to mention, I can imagine a new Kakashi wearing the Hokage garb with a pair of Sharingan. That's if he does become Hokage and keeps both eyes. Although, I can't remember if having both Sharingan activated and uncovered drains his energy even more than the one did...?

Yeah, my bad. I read the manga every week there is one, but I also forget a few big plot points immediately right after reading them. Obito did give him both his Sharingan eyes, but the one he wants Kakashi to keep is the eye he gave as he was dying. The other eye has an "expiration". When does it expire? Now because the fight with Kaguya is finished, or will he have it for a little bit longer?

And we don't know yet. We know having both Sharingan eyes let him add Kamui to his moves and makes him intangible, but that's it. In that short amout of time from receiving both eyes to Kaguya getting sealed, Kakashi never once mentioned feeling dizzy from using too much chakra or whatnot.

Nodame
31st August 2014, 2:39 PM
If my husbando Kakashi is going to become hokage I'm fine with it. It only suggests that Naruto needs a little time to mature a little more first before leading an entire village by himself. As long as we get Naruto's face on the Hokage mountain at the end of part 3, doesn't matter when he becomes.

Lorde
31st August 2014, 8:05 PM
It's fine if Tsunade steps down. She's old, and Sakura already knows most (if not all) of her jutsus and knowledge. I bet seeing Dan again might influence in her stepping down and giving the Hokage role to Kakashi.

Tsunade having a mimic shouldn't matter in terms of her supposed retirement. And she's supported Naruto's dream since Part 1, so why should she snub him in favor of Kakashi?

Platinum fan.
31st August 2014, 8:23 PM
Tsunade having a mimic shouldn't matter in terms of her supposed retirement. And she's supported Naruto's dream since Part 1, so why should she snub him in favor of Kakashi?

Tsunade does hold Kakashi in great regards. However I think she'd pick Nartuo over him. She's bet a lot on Naruto and so far, Naruto hasn't disappointed. The politics part, Naruto could get help from the likes of Shikamaru. And while Naruto isn't a super brain, he's smarter then most give him credit for. I've been rereading earlier parts of the war and he actually understands many situations very well. And again if he's got like Shikamaru as a right hand to help him with the politics, it shouldn't be that bad. Still better then Sasuke. I'm confident Tsunade wouldn't pick Sasuke as her successor. She'd sooner pick Sakura as her replacement. That's right, Sakura would make for a better Hokage then Sasuke! At least she cares for the village.

I cannot get over this Sasuke wanting to be Hokage business. It makes no sense and is so out of character. And I'm still nursing my grudge over Naruto vs Sasuke being scrapped. How could they drop the biggest angle in the Naruto series? They build up Naruto to have to somehow both stop and save Sasuke while defending Konoha at the same time, and then they chicken out and have Sasuke turn good on his own without a single fight or death? I don't know how many times I'm going to complain about this. I need to move on to another topic already.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
31st August 2014, 9:38 PM
When Itachi died, he wanted Sasuke to protect the village, but I doubt he meant becoming the Hokage to do so. I'd feel much better if Sasuke had went more in depth to why he wants to become Hokage, because I'm still not 100% convinced. Adding to that, I once read that Kishimoto actually wanted Sasuke to become Hokage, now I have no idea if that was a fan's doing or the real thing. I'll put my money on the former.

Nodame
31st August 2014, 10:34 PM
I like Sasuke but I don't think that Kishimoto could write Sasuke becoming Hokage in any way I would find believable. It'll probably get as far as Naruto and Sasuke having their fight for the hokage, but no way Sasuke will never be Hokage. The citizens of Konoha will never accept Sasuke as the Hokage, ever. The best he can do would be to become an elder, and fill a Danzo esque role. Also, I doubt Kakashi will be Hokage tbh and I doubt Tsunade will retire for Kakashi's sake.

Void Ventus
31st August 2014, 11:46 PM
When Hiruzen died, and the Elders were choosing a successor as the 5th Hokage, did they ever consider Kakashi as a contender? Or did they go straight to Jiraiya, who declined the offer and picked Tsunade instead? I don't want to go looking what episode that was, and spen another 10-20 minutes watching the episode. If someone can remember, that'd be great. K thnx bai!

Did ROOT get destroyed? Or are they still operating in secrecy? (Again, don't want to go back hundreds of chapters back) Sasuke could be in ROOT, and Naruto in Anbu. Anbu Naruto sounds cool.

I can see Tsunade retiring. I'd be sad if I never see big breasted anime fanservice Tsunade, but Kakashi is a worthy contender. Old age isn't really an issue considering Hiruzen (which is why he became Hokage again instead of choosing a 5th back then), Tsunade, and Ōnoki can still kick butt, but I think that's because they haven't found a worthy successor to be the next Hokage.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
1st September 2014, 12:04 AM
When Hiruzen died, and the Elders were choosing a successor as the 5th Hokage, did they ever consider Kakashi as a contender? Or did they go straight to Jiraiya, who declined the offer and picked Tsunade instead? I don't want to go looking what episode that was, and spen another 10-20 minutes watching the episode. If someone can remember, that'd be great. K thnx bai!

Did ROOT get destroyed? Or are they still operating in secrecy? (Again, don't want to go back hundreds of chapters back) Sasuke could be in ROOT, and Naruto in Anbu. Anbu Naruto sounds cool.

I can see Tsunade retiring. I'd be sad if I never see big breasted anime fanservice Tsunade, but Kakashi is a worthy contender. Old age isn't really an issue considering Hiruzen (which is why he became Hokage again instead of choosing a 5th back then), Tsunade, and Ōnoki can still kick butt, but I think that's because they haven't found a worthy successor to be the next Hokage.
Yep, that's exactly how it went down. The elders went to Jiraiya, he declined and said Tsunade should be the 5th. Kakashi wasn't mentioned.

Since Danzo was killed by Sasuke, I believe it left along with him.

I don't really see any worthy candidates becoming the 4th Tsuchikage other than Kitsuchi, so you're right about Ohnoki, but Tsunade resigning for Kakashi doesn't sit too well for me, I mean, she really doesn't have a reason to stop being the 5th unless she gives it to Naruto in my opinion.

Lorde
1st September 2014, 12:14 AM
I cannot get over this Sasuke wanting to be Hokage business. It makes no sense and is so out of character. And I'm still nursing my grudge over Naruto vs Sasuke being scrapped. How could they drop the biggest angle in the Naruto series? They build up Naruto to have to somehow both stop and save Sasuke while defending Konoha at the same time, and then they chicken out and have Sasuke turn good on his own without a single fight or death? I don't know how many times I'm going to complain about this. I need to move on to another topic already.

Since both Naruto and Sasuke want the Hokage title, it's fairly obvious that they'll fight over that in my opinion and finally have their hyped battle once and for all.

Void Ventus
1st September 2014, 12:51 AM
Being a Hokage

PROS:
•Recognized as the STRONGEST NINJA in the village. Ya'll non-Hokages all work for me! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
•Get my face up on the mountain. EGO BOOSTER, yeah! Hey baby, see that face on the mountain? I'll always be staring at you. *winks*
•I know everything. As Hokage, I'm granted to every public and private secret info. Ohh Hashirama did that in his youth? Scandalous!

CONS
•Paperwork. Booooooring! Why am I stuck here filing out paperwork day after day after day?
•Required to attend meetings. ZZZZZZzzzzzz
•Those stupid Elders always bossing me around

Kamex
1st September 2014, 3:17 AM
Tsunade having a mimic shouldn't matter in terms of her supposed retirement. And she's supported Naruto's dream since Part 1, so why should she snub him in favor of Kakashi?
She might want Naruto to gain more experience or mature more. Or maybe Naruto will have some sort of new mission or goal to complete before becoming Hokage (not necessarily expanded on in a new arc though). And even though she supports Naruto 100%, that doesn't necessarily mean she'll throw him into the highest position of power in the village in a hurry if she doesn't think he's ready.


Since both Naruto and Sasuke want the Hokage title, it's fairly obvious that they'll fight over that in my opinion and finally have their hyped battle once and for all.
Hmm, maybe. But it still doesn't add up to me that becoming Hokage is something to be fought over. To me it seems the ultimate solution to peace (according to the story) is cooperation. Which is the exact opposite of fighting. Or at least, it's fighting together towards a common goal. That's why some kind of dual-leadership or something like that seems more likely to me. One way or another, I don't think that after this war is over everyone will just shrug and go home and just continue running the world how it always had been run, with all its wars and conflicts and problems. I'm guessing this war and Naruto specifically will usher in some sort of monumental change... just not sure what that'll look like exactly.

That being said, I do wish Naruto and Sasuke had a reason for a high-stakes battle.

p96822
1st September 2014, 3:23 AM
Will Naruto has the Shadow clones to help him with paper work

Platinum fan.
1st September 2014, 3:23 AM
She might want Naruto to gain more experience or mature more. Or maybe Naruto will have some sort of new mission or goal to complete before becoming Hokage (not necessarily expanded on in a new arc though). And even though she supports Naruto 100%, that doesn't necessarily mean she'll throw him into the highest position of power in the village in a hurry if she doesn't think he's ready.


Hmm, maybe. But it still doesn't add up to me that becoming Hokage is something to be fought over. To me it seems the ultimate solution to peace (according to the story) is cooperation. Which is the exact opposite of fighting. Or at least, it's fighting together towards a common goal. That's why some kind of dual-leadership or something like that seems more likely to me. One way or another, I don't think that after this war is over everyone will just shrug and go home and just continue running the world how it always had been run, with all its wars and conflicts and problems. I'm guessing this war and Naruto specifically will usher in some sort of monumental change... just not sure what that'll look like exactly.

That being said, I do wish Naruto and Sasuke had a reason for a high-stakes battle.

Well yeah Naruto will usher change. He can make the blind see and bring the dead to life. I'm waiting for him to do more miracles.

And Naruto and Sasuke had a reason for a high stakes battle. But Kishi cheated and...no. I will not rant about it again. The Naruto vs Sasuke thing has really lost wind in it's sails. So even if we still get it, I can't see it being anywhere near as good as Kishi was originally building it up for.

Void Ventus
1st September 2014, 3:48 AM
Well yeah Naruto will usher change. He can make the blind see and bring the dead to life. I'm waiting for him to do more miracles.

And Naruto and Sasuke had a reason for a high stakes battle. But Kishi cheated and...no. I will not rant about it again. The Naruto vs Sasuke thing has really lost wind in it's sails. So even if we still get it, I can't see it being anywhere near as good as Kishi was originally building it up for.

Naruto can't do miracles anymore. Their Yin-Yang powers were borrowed. Hagoromo got them back immediately after sealing Kaguya. I guess turning bad guys into good guys is considered a miracle work, but we have that in the real world. They're called motivational speakers.

Yeah, I don't see how the Naruto vs Sasuke fight is going to be justified. At this monent, there really is ZERO reason to fight anymore. No matter what horrible things Sasuke has done in the past, pretty sure saving the world would easily get you a clean slate. Heck, even Hagoromo can vouch for him, and tell the people that he's now reformed from villainy.

Platinum fan.
1st September 2014, 8:45 PM
Naruto can't do miracles anymore. Their Yin-Yang powers were borrowed. Hagoromo got them back immediately after sealing Kaguya. I guess turning bad guys into good guys is considered a miracle work, but we have that in the real world. They're called motivational speakers.

Yeah, I don't see how the Naruto vs Sasuke fight is going to be justified. At this monent, there really is ZERO reason to fight anymore. No matter what horrible things Sasuke has done in the past, pretty sure saving the world would easily get you a clean slate. Heck, even Hagoromo can vouch for him, and tell the people that he's now reformed from villainy.

It doesn't matter if Sasuke helped saved the world. Naruto saved Konoha from Pain and he still wasn't nominated for Hokage after Tsunade activated her Coma No Jutsu. Sasuke's still a unlikeable *** with a unlikeable personality that only villains and shallow girls would like. No way is Sasuke worthy of being Hokage. He's a selfish, ungrateful, disrespectful tool.

Lorde
1st September 2014, 8:54 PM
Will Naruto has the Shadow clones to help him with paper work

That would actually be a good idea tbh. Still, I don't expect to see him do day-to-day Hokage tasks when he does become Hokage; I think we'll merely see him accept the title at a ceremony or something and then the manga will end with an epilogue of sorts imo.

Kamex
2nd September 2014, 2:41 AM
It's crazy to think that at the beginning of Part II, Pain and Tobi were at the very top of Akatsuki. They were two of the most powerful villains in the story, and they influenced most events since then. And now, they're both deceased and completely redeemed and vindicated. Madara may go that route as well. Ah, the power of Talk no Jutsu.

The only major villain I can recall that didn't fall prey to Naruto's technique is Orochimaru... or I guess he kind of used it on himself. Or something.

Void Ventus
2nd September 2014, 5:41 PM
Sketches of The Last Naruto, Sakura, Temari, Gaara, Sai, Shikamaru, Choji, Rock Lee, and Tenten (http://www.naruto-movie.com/sp/secretfile.html)

Tenten and Temari look great! Loving their design already. Lee and Shikamaru's designs are boring. Doesn't seem like they'll be getting a costume change. I'm looking forward to seeing Hinata, Shino, Tsunade, Kakashi, Sasuke, Ino, and Konohamaru (and Neji too, but he died lololololololol)

Seeing the costume change for Gaara and Temari makes me wish we saw their RTN designs and personalities :(

Jb
2nd September 2014, 5:53 PM
I like Temari's design. she's always been a personal fav of mine

Platinum fan.
2nd September 2014, 6:05 PM
Temari, Tenten, Gaara, and Choji caught my interest, but most of them look good anyway. Sakura looks kinda like some of mother characters we've seen in the series. Naruto looked kinda like Gaara's father in the first sketch. Overall they aren't bad. I wonder what some others will look like, like Sasuke, Ino, Hinata, Kakashi and such.

Lorde
2nd September 2014, 7:45 PM
It's crazy to think that at the beginning of Part II, Pain and Tobi were at the very top of Akatsuki. They were two of the most powerful villains in the story, and they influenced most events since then. And now, they're both deceased and completely redeemed and vindicated. Madara may go that route as well. Ah, the power of Talk no Jutsu.

Was Tobi really that strong? I mean what could he really do aside from teleport? His skills were mediocre at best imo, which is why I felt that Akatsuki died with Nagato since he was the strongest Akatsuki member imo.

Platinum fan.
2nd September 2014, 9:10 PM
Was Tobi really that strong? I mean what could he really do aside from teleport? His skills were mediocre at best imo, which is why I felt that Akatsuki died with Nagato since he was the strongest Akatsuki member imo.

Well he could teleport you to another dimension and leave you there. And if part 2 has taught us anything it's this. Anyone with a Tailed Beast, Hashirama cells, Sharingan, or Rinnegan is a member of the Super Freak Club aka the Main Event Player Club. In other words they are invincible and cannot be taken down by just anyone. You don't have any of the abilities I named then you are not important to the plot or the fight, and killing that person off will have no meaning to the overall story at all. Isn't that right, Neji? Poor Neji. Once viewed as the strongest of the Konoha 11 behind Naruto and Sasuke and just killed off in a sea of war, probably forgotten by all the main characters minus like Hinata and Lee. Guy never cared for Neji.

Kamex
2nd September 2014, 9:15 PM
Was Tobi really that strong? I mean what could he really do aside from teleport? His skills were mediocre at best imo, which is why I felt that Akatsuki died with Nagato since he was the strongest Akatsuki member imo.
I guess you're right. But still, he seemed to be very proficient with Kamui, to the point that hardly anyone successfully hit him with anything before this arc (all I remember is Konan). So they both essentially couldn't be stopped for a long time. And I also meant that they were very influential and mysterious and important. Not to mention interesting.

But yeah, Pain was way more resourceful and had a full arsenal of different types of abilities, whereas Tobi was the complete opposite as a one-trick pony. So it does seem like Pain was a lot more powerful in battle, at least before Tobi stole his eyes.

When are we getting the new chapter, Thursday?

Akashin
2nd September 2014, 9:36 PM
Was Tobi really that strong? I mean what could he really do aside from teleport? His skills were mediocre at best imo, which is why I felt that Akatsuki died with Nagato since he was the strongest Akatsuki member imo.

Unless you intend to make a similar claim about Minato (who was also, barring the Hiraishin, rather run-of-the-mill), you're sorely underselling how powerful Space-Time Ninjutsu is.

Jb
2nd September 2014, 10:18 PM
Are we arguing that Tobi is stronger than Nagato, or just tough in general. Because i can't be convinced of the former

Lorde
2nd September 2014, 10:29 PM
Unless you intend to make a similar claim about Minato (who was also, barring the Hiraishin, rather run-of-the-mill), you're sorely underselling how powerful Space-Time Ninjutsu is.

I don't buy Minato's hype either; his teleportation jutsu has flopped pretty badly ever since he was Edo Tensei'd imo.

Void Ventus
2nd September 2014, 11:57 PM
Are we arguing that Tobi is stronger than Nagato, or just tough in general. Because i can't be convinced of the former
Considering Nagato was already dying and trapped in that one place, I'd say Tobi wins.


I don't buy Minato's hype either; his teleportation jutsu has flopped pretty badly ever since he was Edo Tensei'd imo.
He managed to teleport the entire Shinobi Alliance. He did it with help from the other Kages sure, but still impressive. Also, he was fighting a broken Madara with Rinnegan and Hashirama's DNA. And Naruto was then faster than him.

Jb
3rd September 2014, 12:22 AM
Considering Nagato was already dying and trapped in that one place, I'd say Tobi wins.


I'm talking about a full powered Nagato, but even still Pain>tobi

Akashin
3rd September 2014, 12:35 AM
Are we arguing that Tobi is stronger than Nagato, or just tough in general. Because i can't be convinced of the former

I can't speak for everybody, but I definitely wasn't; Pain>Tobi, absolutely (at the time they were both alive anyway; I'm a little more convinced of Tobi being stronger if we take the Rinnegan and his Six Paths into account). I was just arguing that Tobi isn't at all mediocre.


I don't buy Minato's hype either; his teleportation jutsu has flopped pretty badly ever since he was Edo Tensei'd imo.

Minato doesn't really need hype to carry him, though; we've seen plenty of what he was capable of when he was alive through flashbacks, regardless of his performance during the war (which I won't comment on, because I've been glossing over or outright skipping chapters for quite some time now).

Kamex
3rd September 2014, 1:22 AM
Well he could teleport you to another dimension and leave you there. And if part 2 has taught us anything it's this. Anyone with a Tailed Beast, Hashirama cells, Sharingan, or Rinnegan is a member of the Super Freak Club aka the Main Event Player Club. In other words they are invincible and cannot be taken down by just anyone. You don't have any of the abilities I named then you are not important to the plot or the fight, and killing that person off will have no meaning to the overall story at all. Isn't that right, Neji? Poor Neji. Once viewed as the strongest of the Konoha 11 behind Naruto and Sasuke and just killed off in a sea of war, probably forgotten by all the main characters minus like Hinata and Lee. Guy never cared for Neji.
That's weak, Neji deserved much better. So is this Super Freak Club you like to mention something you thought up? Just curious lol.


Considering Nagato was already dying and trapped in that one place, I'd say Tobi wins.
But if you consider Nagato's six paths vs Tobi without six paths, it's hard to say. It seems to me that Pain is much more powerful than Tobi, but we've already seen that plenty of very capable ninja have had a great deal of trouble dealing with Obito's Kamui. But I do think he'd have some trouble trying to avoid Pain for long, let alone put up a successful offensive against him.

But if Naruto did it before taming/befriending Kyuubi, maybe Tobi could have somehow as well. He does have his regular shinobi skills to synergize with Kamui.

Nodame
3rd September 2014, 2:09 AM
I dunno if it's me but wasn't the ending a bit too easy? Kaguya's supposed to be the forebear of all history, an untold mythical legend with the inherent knowledge and ability of every technique conceived, yet after giving an unwhelming performance she's forced into returning to the previous state that she was in before resurrection :/ It's a shame because there was potential behind her character. Oh well this is a male dominated manga. Even Kaguya paled in comparison to Madara and Pain for that matter..

Kamex
3rd September 2014, 3:27 AM
I dunno if it's me but wasn't the ending a bit too easy? Kaguya's supposed to be the forebear of all history, an untold mythical legend with the inherent knowledge and ability of every technique conceived, yet after giving an unwhelming performance she's forced into returning to the previous state that she was in before resurrection :/ It's a shame because there was potential behind her character. Oh well this is a male dominated manga. Even Kaguya paled in comparison to Madara and Pain for that matter..
There was definitely a lot more that could have been done with Kaguya. But to be fair, without Naruto and Sasuke's borrowed powers no one would have had a chance in defeating her, not to mention sealing her away. By the end the battles had escalated to borderline ridiculous proportions what with switching dimensions, insta-healing people, every element under the sun available, etc., so it's hard to tell who should truly have the upper hand anymore anyway.

Void Ventus
3rd September 2014, 11:17 AM
Naruto's height comparison in The Last. Left is current Naruto in the trailer outfit (173cm, roughly 5'7") and right is The Last Naruto (183cm, 6 feet)
http://www.mangabee.com/wp-content/manga/1873/793/004n.jpg

justinjiaxinghu
3rd September 2014, 4:22 PM
Naruto's height comparison in The Last. Left is current Naruto in the trailer outfit (173cm, roughly 5'7") and right is The Last Naruto (183cm, 6 feet)
http://www.mangabee.com/wp-content/manga/1873/793/004n.jpg

Is it just me or does the Naruto on the right look weirdly like Obito?

XanderCage
3rd September 2014, 5:53 PM
Is it just me or does the Naruto on the right look weirdly like Obito?

Not at all, if it wasn't labeled I would have thought that was Obito too. Maybe Naruto changed his look as a tribute to Obito haha.

Lorde
3rd September 2014, 8:09 PM
I dunno if it's me but wasn't the ending a bit too easy? Kaguya's supposed to be the forebear of all history, an untold mythical legend with the inherent knowledge and ability of every technique conceived, yet after giving an unwhelming performance she's forced into returning to the previous state that she was in before resurrection :/ It's a shame because there was potential behind her character. Oh well this is a male dominated manga. Even Kaguya paled in comparison to Madara and Pain for that matter..

She was able to swap dimensions and stuff, so she was pretty powerful imo. She simply wasn't a good melee fighter, so maybe that's why she didn't seem as threatening as other villains.

lolipiece
3rd September 2014, 8:19 PM
Powerful doesn't mean much when you're too terrible to even use that power properly.

Seriously, Kaguya. You have an acid dimension. Shove Naruto and/or Sasuke in it and be done with it.

Oh, that's right, you can't because you're sealed.

Shneak
4th September 2014, 3:30 AM
Naruto's height comparison in The Last. Left is current Naruto in the trailer outfit (173cm, roughly 5'7") and right is The Last Naruto (183cm, 6 feet)
http://www.mangabee.com/wp-content/manga/1873/793/004n.jpg

Jeez, that's a pretty decent growth spurt. He's 16 now so the epilogue has to be at least 2 years.

Platinum fan.
4th September 2014, 4:09 AM
That's weak, Neji deserved much better. So is this Super Freak Club you like to mention something you thought up? Just curious lol.


But if you consider Nagato's six paths vs Tobi without six paths, it's hard to say. It seems to me that Pain is much more powerful than Tobi, but we've already seen that plenty of very capable ninja have had a great deal of trouble dealing with Obito's Kamui. But I do think he'd have some trouble trying to avoid Pain for long, let alone put up a successful offensive against him.

But if Naruto did it before taming/befriending Kyuubi, maybe Tobi could have somehow as well. He does have his regular shinobi skills to synergize with Kamui.

Yes. As a matter of fact it was. XD
Edit: It's not a club just anyone can join.

Void Ventus
4th September 2014, 6:38 AM
What's the plot for The Last? Maybe it's like after the Cell games. If the Shinobi world is united after this, everyone has taken it easy, and only a few have been training everyday (like Rock Lee and Guy). It made sense for Gohan to be weaker since he focused on studying instead of fighting all these years, but not for Naruto. If Naruto does somehow quit training after the war, a potential 2 years timeskip is enough for him to still have the power from before, but just not be able to unleash his full potential.

justinjiaxinghu
4th September 2014, 1:20 PM
New chapter is out. Basically it just kind of a farewell chapter and really boring. And Kakashi did end up losing his Sharingan...damn.

lolipiece
4th September 2014, 1:35 PM
Let's see how long this will be dragged out for.

Obito gets redeemed and a happy end.

Madara dies with closure to his story with Hashirama.

Kaguya gets sealed in a rock and no one cares about her or Black Zetsu.

Platinum fan.
4th September 2014, 2:59 PM
Arrgh! I was totally prepared to rant on trying to humanize Madara but to my great surprise, I didn't mind him this chapter. Maybe it's the fact that his time was over and he was going to die made me dislike him a little less? No that's not it. I guess seeing Hashirama and Madara have one final talk before both dying with this kind of closure was alright. At least Madara didn't just become a good guy, he just reflected on the things he should have done. Wait isn't that what most villains do? Well whatever I didn't mind it. Shocker, I have nothing more to rant on Madara about. I need to find something else.

The rest of the chapter was fine. I agree with Sakura that nothing should come as a shock anymore. The moments I enjoyed were Kurama giving Naruto the finger and his farewell to Minato and his armless self. If only Kushina had been there to complete the set. Just goodbyes all around. One final goodbye between Obito and Kakashi before Obito finally scores with his girl, Naruto and Minato's goodbye and Hashirama and Madara. Not a bad chapter. Oh and Kakashi lost his membership card to the Super Freak Club. But he can join Sakura on their waiting list.

uber gon
4th September 2014, 4:25 PM
Wonder if this last movie will be canon? Also apparently Naruto is 17. How long has Shippuden been going on?

pwnswitchclik
4th September 2014, 5:22 PM
Apart from Kurama flipping the bird, this chapter was...meh.

Marco The Phoenix
4th September 2014, 5:23 PM
O My Jesus, Can it be true? Have my prayers been answered? Is Naruto ending without Kishimoto dragging out the story further?

I might cry because of this momentous time.

Shneak
4th September 2014, 6:07 PM
Wow, it's actually ending. No weird surprises right now.

The chapter was kind of touching. I'm glad that Madara died without completely reversing his stance or actions. Just rekindling what he had with Hashirama. And no Rinne Tensei! Naruto's parting words to Minato were also sweet.

Jb
4th September 2014, 6:18 PM
Kinda sucks that Kakashi lost both sharingan. It would of been cool to have something that kept him relevant later, though if it's ending, it doesn't matter.

Red and Blue
4th September 2014, 7:10 PM
Now that Madara is gone, the only villain remaining is Orochimaru. I'm curious what Kishimoto has in mind for him?

Lorde
4th September 2014, 8:13 PM
I'm glad that Madara died without using Rinne Tensei at least and Minato saying happy birthday to Naruto was touching. And I cackled at Kurama. Too bad about Kakashi's Sharingan.

Red and Blue
4th September 2014, 8:17 PM
I'm glad that Madara died without using Rinne Tensei at least and Minato saying happy birthday to Naruto was touching. And I cackled at Kurama. Too bad about Kakashi's Sharingan.

Oh yeah that's right. I guess this means that Neji is staying dead.

Joltik-Kid
4th September 2014, 9:21 PM
Wow, it's actually ending. No weird surprises right now.
There's still one battle remaining

Emperor Empoleon
4th September 2014, 9:55 PM
Naruto's goodbye with his dad was pretty sweet.

And lol. Naruto said he's only 17 and doesn't understand girls much. Kinda surprised Kishi didn't reference Hinata or Sakura here. We might get a no ships ending I think.

Lorde
4th September 2014, 10:14 PM
Overall, the Edo Hokage just seemed pointless since they weren't effective enough during the war imo. And will Hashirama's "gift" to Sasuke ever be revealed?

Pokegirl Fan~
4th September 2014, 10:21 PM
Naruto's goodbye with his dad was pretty sweet.

And lol. Naruto said he's only 17 and doesn't understand girls much. Kinda surprised Kishi didn't reference Hinata or Sakura here. We might get a no ships ending I think.
Yeah I agree, I don't see any ships becoming canon after that statement XD

I'm finally glad that this never-ending war seems to be over. The final goodbye with Naruto and his dad was nice, it was kinda funny how it first started, then it gradually became more emotional especially when Naruto starts crying near the end of it. I guess the last battle we'll have is Naruto vs Sasuke, if that's still the plan.

Kamex
4th September 2014, 10:33 PM
I agree with everyone about Madara's end. I'm glad he kind of reconnected with Hashirama and accepted his fate without necessarily falling prey to Talk no Jutsu or making a complete 180. It was satisfying. I wonder how he would have been stopped had Kaguya/Black Zetsu not gotten in his way.

Kakashi lost both Sharingan. I'm fine with that; being Kakashi of the Sharingan kind of coincided with Tobi's existence in the world, and now that he's gone and took his Sharingan with him in a sense, it's kind of like Kakashi can finally continue on normally.

I'm still not convinced there's going to be a Naruto vs. Sasuke battle at this point. We'll see.

pwnswitchclik
4th September 2014, 10:34 PM
Overall, the Edo Hokage just seemed pointless since they weren't effective enough during the war imo. And will Hashirama's "gift" to Sasuke ever be revealed?

Maybe Sasuke will reveal it when he faces Naruto. I thought if Kishi forgot about it.

Void Ventus
5th September 2014, 4:11 AM
If there's no more breaks from now on, the 700th chapter will be on November 6th, and that will be less than a full month before the movie is released.

At least 3 of the 9 chapters left (if the manga does end there) will be Naruto vs Sasuke. The other 6 will be the Shinobi world uniting, and peace at last? The NvS fight better not be forced. There has be a good reason why they still have to fight, and not for the sake of pleasing the fans of a final fight.

Cerex
5th September 2014, 4:42 AM
Yeah I agree, I don't see any ships becoming canon after that statement XD

I'm finally glad that this never-ending war seems to be over. The final goodbye with Naruto and his dad was nice, it was kinda funny how it first started, then it gradually became more emotional especially when Naruto starts crying near the end of it. I guess the last battle we'll have is Naruto vs Sasuke, if that's still the plan.

I doubt there will be a Naruto vs. Sasuke battle. Their plans are now fully aligned. Both of them want to protect the village. Sasuke may not be accepted back into the Leaf, but given that the Leaf did order the genocide of his clan, I feel as if they can depart on amicable terms with Sasuke and the rest of his team leaving start their own journey. They can pretty much fend for themselves, and for all of the death and destruction Sasuke caused he did kind of save the world. Plus, they are all ninjas, and so these kinds of acts are a way of life for them.

I was actually kind of upset how they handled the Madara situation. I get it on one hand, but they spent the better part of the last couple of months saying how some things are impossible only to turn out to be in fact quite possible, and fairly easy to do, but all of a sudden actually having Madara stick around to pay for his crimes be genuinely impossible.

The worst person potentially in all of this is Kabuto, he's the only person who was part of the opposing side that is actually still alive, and everyone will probably be coming after him.

Also, what's the deal with the afterlife in this universe? It clearly exists, but I feel as if there have been conflicting statements as to what it actually is like. On one hand we see people near death and those who have already died talk to each other in this other plane of existence, and at others times we see the characters speak of life after death as if it is completely isolated and they never interact with others, i.e. the 1st Hokage rushing to speak to Madara before it is too late.

Lorde
5th September 2014, 4:47 AM
I doubt there will be a Naruto vs. Sasuke battle. Their plans are now fully aligned. Both of them want to protect the village. Sasuke may not be accepted back into the Leaf, but given that the Leaf did order the genocide of his clan, I feel as if they can depart on amicable terms with Sasuke and the rest of his team leaving start their own journey. They can pretty much fend for themselves, and for all of the death and destruction Sasuke caused he did kind of save the world. Plus, they are all ninjas, and so these kinds of acts are a way of life for them.

Except that Sasuke wants to become Hokage and if I recall correctly, he said or at least implied that he wants to get rid of the Bijuu permanently; those are two things that would conflict with Naruto's ideals and motives. So I don't see why they wouldn't fight with that underlying tension present.

Kamex
5th September 2014, 5:53 AM
I was actually kind of upset how they handled the Madara situation. I get it on one hand, but they spent the better part of the last couple of months saying how some things are impossible only to turn out to be in fact quite possible, and fairly easy to do, but all of a sudden actually having Madara stick around to pay for his crimes be genuinely impossible.
I kind of want to respond to this, but with the way you worded it I'm not really sure what you're getting at.


Also, what's the deal with the afterlife in this universe? It clearly exists, but I feel as if there have been conflicting statements as to what it actually is like. On one hand we see people near death and those who have already died talk to each other in this other plane of existence, and at others times we see the characters speak of life after death as if it is completely isolated and they never interact with others, i.e. the 1st Hokage rushing to speak to Madara before it is too late.
I was under the impression that Hashirama simply wanted to get a word in and watch his old friend and enemy die for symbolic reasons. Not because they'd never meet again. Also, he asked if they could be comrades going forward, and though Madara may or may not have finished his reply, I think that question was implying that they'd still be around each other. Or maybe that was symbolic as well, I dunno.

Joltik-Kid
5th September 2014, 6:01 AM
Sasuke vs Naruto will happen... there's just too much stuff that Kishi would have to fill out...
Like how Sai, Sakura, and Kakashi are all suspicious of Sasuke's hidden motives of which Juugo confirms as even he didn't know what Sasuke has planned. We also have the Sasuke image of cutting out the past with a slash mark across Naruto in the old Team 7 photo.

Cerex
5th September 2014, 6:16 AM
Except that Sasuke wants to become Hokage and if I recall correctly, he said or at least implied that he wants to get rid of the Bijuu permanently; those are two things that would conflict with Naruto's ideals and motives. So I don't see why they wouldn't fight with that underlying tension present.None of that implicates a battle. For starters both of them could become Hokage, with Kaskashi becoming the next one and latter it going to either Sasuke or Naruto, followed by the other afterwards. It's not as if the series has ever implied it has to be one or the other. The first was succeeded by his brother, and the same could happen with Naruto.

Additionally, it's not as if if from Sasuke's perspective killing Naruto will result in him becoming Hokage. It's a decision that the Daimyō makes, and it's unlikely given Sasuke's involvement, even after saving the world, that he would appointed to that post, even if he isn't executed or put in prison.

As for destroying the Bijuu. Sure, that would be a point of contention, but it just seems awkward for them to go from one moment supporting each to going at each others throat over something they can work out. The point of the series has been how history really does not have to repeat itself. Naruto and Sasuke represent the cycle breaking, and fulfilling Harishama and Mardara's initial dreams and aspirations.

Lorde
5th September 2014, 6:21 AM
None of that implicates a battle. For starters both of them could become Hokage, with Kaskashi becoming the next one and latter it going to either Sasuke or Naruto, followed by the other afterwards. It's not as if the series has ever implied it has to be one or the other. The first was succeeded by his brother, and the same could happen with Naruto.

Additionally, it's not as if if from Sasuke's perspective killing Naruto will result in him becoming Hokage. It's a decision that the Daimyō makes, and it's unlikely given Sasuke's involvement, even after saving the world, that he would appointed to that post, even if he isn't executed or put in prison.

As for destroying the Bijuu. Sure, that would be a point of contention, but it just seems awkward for them to go from one moment supporting each to going at each others throat over something they can work out. The point of the series has been how history really does not have to repeat itself. Naruto and Sasuke represent the cycle breaking, and fulfilling Harishama and Mardara's initial dreams and aspirations.

I just think it's blatantly obvious that they have unresolved differences still that they can't simply discuss and work out with words. This is an action manga after all; what better way for them to settle things than to have their long-awaited rematch? Sasuke only helped the alliance because Madara, Obito and the Juubi were threats anyway imo; it's not like he and Naruto are suddenly BFFs.

Cerex
5th September 2014, 6:29 AM
I just think it's blatantly obvious that they have unresolved differences still that they can't simply discuss and work out with words. This is an action manga after all; what better way for hem to settle things than to have their long-awaited rematch? Sasuke only helped the alliance because Madara, Obito and the Juubi were threats anyway imo; it's not like he and Naruto are suddenly BFFs.I disagree. They may not have settled all of their issues, but much like how Madara and Harishama have come to terms I think Sasuke and Naruto have as well. Plus a fight won't resolve anything between the two of them. Naruto would defeat Sasuke and then what? Harishama defeated Madara and for generations that didn't settle anything, and only set the stage for the war that just finished. That would be a horrible way to end the story. The two of them having a genuine battle just repeats what they just tried to resolve.

Yes, it's an action manga, but the whole point of the war has been war and fighting wasn't necessary. A reoccurring theme throughout the war was older characters and edo characters being surprised by seeing a Shinobi alliance. I think closing out the story, people will go back to their respective villages, but it will be much more like a united federation rather than independent warring villages.

Platinum fan.
5th September 2014, 7:19 AM
I'd hate for Naruto having to share his Hokage destiny with Sasuke of all people. Mr. "I'm going to kill everyone in Konoha." All it would take is for some villain to manipulate the Uchiha history and Sasuke will probably try and kill them all again. I'd laugh so hard of that is what Orochimaru tries to do after the war. And another thing, why is Orochimaru back? He didn't nothing during this war beyond summoning those Dead Hokage, who ultimately did nothing in the big final. Should have just stayed dead IMO. Who cares about Orochimaru anymore?

Lorde
5th September 2014, 8:51 PM
I'd hate for Naruto having to share his Hokage destiny with Sasuke of all people. Mr. "I'm going to kill everyone in Konoha." All it would take is for some villain to manipulate the Uchiha history and Sasuke will probably try and kill them all again. I'd laugh so hard of that is what Orochimaru tries to do after the war. And another thing, why is Orochimaru back? He didn't nothing during this war beyond summoning those Dead Hokage, who ultimately did nothing in the big final. Should have just stayed dead IMO. Who cares about Orochimaru anymore?

Orochimaru got some redemption and possibly some closure, which was interesting at least. His "death" before was kinda lame, so I'm glad he got a second chance.

Platinum fan.
6th September 2014, 1:14 AM
Orochimaru got some redemption and possibly some closure, which was interesting at least. His "death" before was kinda lame, so I'm glad he got a second chance.

How did Orochimaru get closure? He never even tasted Sharingan once in his life. Bringing him back was one of the most pointless moves in Naruto. I general dislike characters coming back from the dead. It ruins the whole point of death to begin with and if they come back and do nothing then it's just bad. Orochimaru's return was not needed. He has no place in the world and no point in the story. Konoha are idiots if they actually allow him to stay in the village considering all he's done.

I had no problem with how Orochimaru "died" IMO it was a fitting death for a snake like Orochimaru. He gambled it all on Sasuke and Sasuke turned everything he was right back on him. Well deserved if you ask me.

PokeMaster366
6th September 2014, 1:17 AM
Wow, it's actually ending. No weird surprises right now.

The chapter was kind of touching. I'm glad that Madara died without completely reversing his stance or actions. Just rekindling what he had with Hashirama. And no Rinne Tensei! Naruto's parting words to Minato were also sweet.

Well, Sasuke has a natural Rinnegan, so perhaps it's possible for him to do Rinne Tensei. We're not out of the woods yet (maybe).

Jb
6th September 2014, 1:41 AM
His Rinnegan wasn't narutal, didn't he get it with the sage's powers? I'd assume it'll soon disappear

Void Ventus
6th September 2014, 2:24 AM
Well, Sasuke has a natural Rinnegan, so perhaps it's possible for him to do Rinne Tensei. We're not out of the woods yet (maybe).

He awakened the Rinnegan with Hagoromo's power. If it was natural, it would be in both eyes.

And Rinne Tensei at this point would be stupid. Why would you revive Obito? He died, found his resolve, died happy, and found peace in the afterlife with Rin. And doesn't Rinne Tensei take a major toll on the user, leaving him/her near death? Why nearly kill Sasuke when he's now reformed? Leave the dead DEAD. What is this, Dragonball Z?

Cerex
6th September 2014, 2:47 AM
I'd hate for Naruto having to share his Hokage destiny with Sasuke of all people. Mr. "I'm going to kill everyone in Konoha." All it would take is for some villain to manipulate the Uchiha history and Sasuke will probably try and kill them all again. I'd laugh so hard of that is what Orochimaru tries to do after the war. And another thing, why is Orochimaru back? He didn't nothing during this war beyond summoning those Dead Hokage, who ultimately did nothing in the big final. Should have just stayed dead IMO. Who cares about Orochimaru anymore?Well, to be fair it was the people of Konoha that as a strategy was like "let's kill all of the Uchiha", in part because straight genocide was for some reason considered an appropriate response to these people. I don't think Sasuke can become Hokage, for reasons mentioned above, but that doesn't mean he has to die by Naruto's hands just to drive that point home.

Orochimaru's return was a bit of a surprise, but it makes sense, since as a character he is known for cheating death and slipping away out of trouble, much like the snakes he associates himself with. If I had it my way he would probably run off somewhere. Perhaps he can become kage of Amegakure or Sasuke could. I dunno, they have options. Also, he healed Tsunade if I recall correctly.

Nodame
7th September 2014, 2:10 PM
Now that Kakashi's handout is gone I just don't know what to expect from him in terms of productivity. I would like to see how he bounces back when he becomes a hokage. I'll just wait and see what happens to Tsunade first. I still like her as hokage anyway.

Platinum fan.
7th September 2014, 2:27 PM
Now that Kakashi's handout is gone I just don't know what to expect from him in terms of productivity. I would like to see how he bounces back when he becomes a hokage. I'll just wait and see what happens to Tsunade first. I still like her as hokage anyway.

Kakashi was already a well praised and gifted shinobi long before he had Sharingan. Look how young he was when he became a Jounin. And while his Sharingan has been a big help over the years he had other methods of fighting opponents. Real shinobi methods. He might not be a member of the Super Freak Club, but I'd still consider him one of Konoha's top best. Other then Naruto and Sasuke, second only to Might Guy. Guy's Gates make him somewhat OP.

Nodame
7th September 2014, 3:05 PM
Kakashi was already a well praised and gifted shinobi long before he had Sharingan. Look how young he was when he became a Jounin. And while his Sharingan has been a big help over the years he had other methods of fighting opponents. Real shinobi methods. He might not be a member of the Super Freak Club, but I'd still consider him one of Konoha's top best. Other then Naruto and Sasuke, second only to Might Guy. Guy's Gates make him somewhat OP.

I know, he's one of my favourite male characters, but how he would be able to lead the village with no extreme powers though? being a member of the super freak club is essential to become hokage. Just saying.

Platinum fan.
7th September 2014, 3:21 PM
I know, he's one of my favourite male characters, but how he would be able to lead the village with no extreme powers though? being a member of the super freak club is essential to become hokage. Just saying.

While that is true, Minato didn't have a really broken power at first. His Rasengan was really powerful because of how he used it in his timing and he combined it with his teleporting jutsu. So it was more skill then uberness. Now in todays Konoha, yeah you kinda need to be uber to be a Gokage in some way shape or form. Hence why I don't think Kakashi is going to be Hokage. He's a worthy candidate it terms of his leadership, skills, smarts, and planning, but lacks the Super Freak Club power that is kinda demanded now. That's why I say the time to have him as Hokage has come and gone. I could have seen him as a Hokage during the period after Danzo, even if to just fill in while Tsunade's out. But not now.

TsukiMirage
7th September 2014, 8:07 PM
Except that Sasuke wants to become Hokage and if I recall correctly, he said or at least implied that he wants to get rid of the Bijuu permanently; those are two things that would conflict with Naruto's ideals and motives. So I don't see why they wouldn't fight with that underlying tension present. Sasuke wanted to get rid of the Bijuus while they were still apart of the Juubi. After they got removed, he hasn't shown any interest towards them.

I do agree that there should be issues involving the role of Hokage, but only because Naruto's current path should mean that he's working to eliminate the village and ninja system. Then again Kishi has never been good at handling these kind of things.


I'd hate for Naruto having to share his Hokage destiny with Sasuke of all people. Mr. "I'm going to kill everyone in Konoha." All it would take is for some villain to manipulate the Uchiha history and Sasuke will probably try and kill them all again. I'd laugh so hard of that is what Orochimaru tries to do after the war. And another thing, why is Orochimaru back? He didn't nothing during this war beyond summoning those Dead Hokage, who ultimately did nothing in the big final. Should have just stayed dead IMO. Who cares about Orochimaru anymore? Considering that Sasuke only believed Obito because it tied in with his own memories of that night, and even then proceed to get confirmation from Danzo upon finding him, and then even more confirmation from Itachi upon his revival, the idea that Sasuke would just believe something just because it's about his clan wouldn't make any sense. Plus, Sasuke had shown it was more over Itachi then over his clan itself, as he idolized Itachi and considered him being put in such a position as the greatest crime. Now that he finally got to speak with Itachi and renew their previous relationship, there's no reason for him to turn from Itachi's path again.


He awakened the Rinnegan with Hagoromo's power. If it was natural, it would be in both eyes. Well, yeah, combining Indra's and Ashura's chakra creates Hagoromo's chakra, which grants the Rinnegan. That's why Madara was the only other person to awaken the Rinnegan despite several other characters also combining Uchiha and Senju Dna, because he had Indra's chakra naturally and added in Ashura's chakra from Hashirama's Dna.

Lorde
7th September 2014, 8:19 PM
I'm really glad that the war at least seems over. Now I want to see the Infinite Tsukuyomi end and all the post-war stuff that's bound to happen; I especially want to know what'll happen to Kabuto now.

Platinum fan.
7th September 2014, 10:45 PM
Sasuke wanted to get rid of the Bijuus while they were still apart of the Juubi. After they got removed, he hasn't shown any interest towards them.

I do agree that there should be issues involving the role of Hokage, but only because Naruto's current path should mean that he's working to eliminate the village and ninja system. Then again Kishi has never been good at handling these kind of things.

Considering that Sasuke only believed Obito because it tied in with his own memories of that night, and even then proceed to get confirmation from Danzo upon finding him, and then even more confirmation from Itachi upon his revival, the idea that Sasuke would just believe something just because it's about his clan wouldn't make any sense. Plus, Sasuke had shown it was more over Itachi then over his clan itself, as he idolized Itachi and considered him being put in such a position as the greatest crime. Now that he finally got to speak with Itachi and renew their previous relationship, there's no reason for him to turn from Itachi's path again.

Well, yeah, combining Indra's and Ashura's chakra creates Hagoromo's chakra, which grants the Rinnegan. That's why Madara was the only other person to awaken the Rinnegan despite several other characters also combining Uchiha and Senju Dna, because he had Indra's chakra naturally and added in Ashura's chakra from Hashirama's Dna.

I'm pretty sure Sasuke was pissed about his entire clan being wiped out. Itachi might be number one at the list but he's mentioned the others. He even told Kakashi and Sakura he would only stop if they revived his entire clan. If only someone in Konoha knew Edo Tensei.

And still, Sasuke would make a lousy Hokage. It's not like he actually cares about anyone but his own motives. Sasuke only likes you if you are useful. You stop being useful and he'll back stab you or trash talk you. Yeah, sounds like a real good choice for Hokage. Just the idea of Sasuke as Hokage is a joke. I can't believe we are to take this seriously. This from the guy who planned to murder them all not that long ago. I'm sorry but it's laughable. In no way shape or form should Sasuke's name be a candidate for Hokage. Naruto saved the village from Pain and his name wasn't a candidate for Hokage, so Sasuke needs get that Hokage fantasy out of his head.

Void Ventus
8th September 2014, 3:32 AM
Naruto ending soon makes me hopeful for Naruto Shippuden Budokai Tenkaichi 3. Including every playable character ever is gonna be so awesome. Filler characters, movie characters, forgotten characters like the Sound 4, Anko, Kurenai, etc. That didn't come until over a decade after DBZ finished airing in Japan though, and even longer after the manga ended.

justinjiaxinghu
9th September 2014, 10:08 AM
Wait there's other popular games besides Ultimate Ninja Storm?

KantoLegends
10th September 2014, 6:52 AM
Playing catch up on the manga...read 50 chapters in the last week and something has me beyond confused. Could someone please explain to me the whole White Zetsu and Black Zetsu thing. I understand they are different people but their history has me totally confused.

Void Ventus
10th September 2014, 7:45 AM
Playing catch up on the manga...read 50 chapters in the last week and something has me beyond confused. Could someone please explain to me the whole White Zetsu and Black Zetsu thing. I understand they are different people but their history has me totally confused.

Black Zetsu = Real Zetsu. The one who found Madara's hidden corpse and revived him. Also a momma's boy, and acts like a child. He's the clumsy and funny side of Tobi, if you will.
White Zetsu = Clone. Made from Hashirama's DNA.

lolipiece
10th September 2014, 12:30 PM
SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGH....

I should have seen this coming.

Oh well, at least Sasuke's a better final boss than Kaguya. Though that's not an accomplishment.

uber gon
10th September 2014, 12:35 PM
Given the Shinobi system here justified preteen murdering to the point where the most murderous person just got a promotion and the genocide of an entire clan based on a POTENTIAL hunch was considered a good idea, I kind of see why Sasuke would think revolution would be a good idea. Kind of a dick way to do things, though.

Void Ventus
10th September 2014, 1:12 PM
Welp, there we go. Hashirama vs Madara 2.0 (or rather Ashura vs Indra 3.0). There's no justification whatsoever anymore for letting Sasuke live after this. Death is necessary, and Naruto has no right whatsoever to oppose it.

Should have seen this coming. I should have expected this when he said he wanted to become Hokage, and Kishi talking about the final battle, which is this. At least Hagoromo did the right choice by giving Sasuke just the left eye the Rinnegan instead of on both eyes, right (although having only one Rinnegan is still OP enough). Also, big coincidence since Naruto Shippuden Ultimate Ninja Storm Revolution is coming next week.

The Tailed Beasts have been Chibaku Tensei'd, but Hagoromo saying their chakra has seeped into Naruto is a very important fact. They may not be inside Naruto anymore, but like Minato and Kushina, they had a little bit of chakra in Naruto so they were able to talk to him. I guess he's gonna talk to them during the fight, and learn a new Jutsu? I can see Convenience No Jutsu coming a mile away.

Dew Watatsumi
10th September 2014, 1:53 PM
Holy crap that chapter! Sauske shows his true colors once again, and there is no way Naruto could convince him to stop. Death is necessary. Even though they been chibaku tensei'd, I believe the tailed beasts would play a big part in helping naruto since he still has a bit of their chakra. Hagoromo is leaving soon, and Kakashi/Sakura....unless Hagaromo gives them a new way to stopping the genjutsu, they are just gonna sit in the sidelines

Jb
10th September 2014, 2:04 PM
i hope this fight doesn't drag on until the end of the year

JD
10th September 2014, 3:02 PM
Oh boy, well this is the fight I've been waiting for lets see how it goes.

Void Ventus
10th September 2014, 3:20 PM
i hope this fight doesn't drag on until the end of the year

The movie is a Timeskip, and is coming out in early December, so it has to stop sometime before that. Add to the fact that they eventually have to show an end to the fight, have some kind of "let's recap through the whole decade+ long run of the series" chapter, and eventually have some kind of epilogue showing piece in the village. There's no chapter next week, but they can still reach Chapter 700 before the movie. I can see the fight lasting 5 chapters maximum, the fight ending at Chapter 697, which would make it in late October.

Ohh boy. I hope Sasuke dies. But chances of that happening is 0%. Naruto said he wants to stop Ashura and Indra's fighting, but the only way they were resolved was by through death of Indra. If Naruto wants to stop the curse, then he has to not kill Sasuke? Talk-No-Jutsu incoming, folks (not like any of us don't see this coming).

Platinum fan.
10th September 2014, 3:40 PM
LOL. Hokage Sasuke ladies and gentlemen. Yeah, this guy is really worthy of being Hokage. I've been saying ever since he announced it, that Sasuke doesn't know what that word means. It was a joke. But finally Naruto vs Sasuke. I don't care how long this fight last, this is what the manga is all about. Naruto vs Sasuke. The two current biggest Super Freak Club members duking it out. The fate of the shinobi world hanging in the balance. Does Naruto kill Sasuke or let him live? Either way, this is it. I've been waiting since 2007 to see Naruto lay some serious smackdownage on Sasuke. Sasuke is a ungrateful...you know the drill. Good chapter because Sasuke is final exposed as the character I've been saying all along. A character unworthy of being Hokage. But he makes a excellent villain. Not a anti-hero, a villain.


I hope Sakura gets involved in the fight and tries to punch Sasuke. I know she can't win, but it's the fact that she'd be willing to attack Sasuke of all people to help Naruto, that would really send a message. I hope Sakura does get involved, even if it's one-shot attack like Pain and Hinata. Good chapter. No, a great chapter. It revived Naruto vs Sasuke. Hokage Sasuke. That still makes me laugh.

Pokegirl Fan~
10th September 2014, 4:04 PM
LOL. Hokage Sasuke ladies and gentlemen. Yeah, this guy is really worthy of being Hokage. I've been saying ever since he announced it, that Sasuke doesn't know what that word means. It was a joke. But finally Naruto vs Sasuke. I don't care how long this fight last, this is what the manga is all about. Naruto vs Sasuke. The two current biggest Super Freak Club members duking it out. The fate of the shinobi world hanging in the balance. Does Naruto kill Sasuke or let him live? Either way, this is it. I've been waiting since 2007 to see Naruto lay some serious smackdownage on Sasuke. Sasuke is a ungrateful...you know the drill. Good chapter because Sasuke is final exposed as the character I've been saying all along. A character unworthy of being Hokage. But he makes a excellent villain. Not a anti-hero, a villain.


I hope Sakura gets involved in the fight and tries to punch Sasuke. I know she can't win, but it's the fact that she'd be willing to attack Sasuke of all people to help Naruto, that would really send a message. I hope Sakura does get involved, even if it's one-shot attack like Pain and Hinata. Good chapter. No, a great chapter. It revived Naruto vs Sasuke. Hokage Sasuke. That still makes me laugh.

I still see Sasuke as an anti-hero, though the way he's doing things now does seem a little too evil to me lol.
Anyways, I'm glad that the fight that I've been waiting for since forever is finally happening. I really don't think either will die, I have a feeling that something will be worked out between Naruto and Sasuke for them to stop the fight.

Void Ventus
10th September 2014, 4:23 PM
Being Kage just means you're the strongest, and be able to lead the entire village. Sasuke being Hokage is fine, but his reasonings for why is exactly why Madara wasn't Hokage. Because their goals are stupid and evil. You'd think Itachi would knock some sense into him. Guess not. Looks like Naruto will try again, and hopefully finally knock the BEJEEBUS out of Emosuke this time. Hope they create a sweet waterfall so they could also get their statues just like Hashi and Madara in Final Valley.

Joltik-Kid
10th September 2014, 4:27 PM
I can't wait to see how TsukiMirage hand waves this Sasuke moment lol... wasn't interested in the Tail Beast huh? Wasn't a murderous psychopath huh?

Anyone with with basic reading comprehension should have saw Sasuke betraying everyone

p96822
10th September 2014, 4:54 PM
I hate Sasuke even more then ever. I feel so sorry for Sakura and Naruto having to deal with his **** now more then ever.

Akashin
10th September 2014, 4:58 PM
I can't wait to see how TsukiMirage hand waves this Sasuke moment lol... wasn't interested in the Tail Beast huh? Wasn't a murderous psychopath huh?

Anyone with with basic reading comprehension should have saw Sasuke betraying everyone

Psychopath is a somewhat dishonest designation at this point though. Evil (or at least heavily morally bent) and murderous yes, but he isn't on a revenge-driven murder spree this time.

I actually see where he's coming from to a degree. He's evil and his stance is inexcusable, no doubt about that, but there's a twisted sort of sense in wanting to wipe the slate clean and start again. He sort of reminds me of Danzo this time around, in methods if not goals.

Pokegirl Fan~
10th September 2014, 5:00 PM
Psychopath is a somewhat dishonest designation at this point though. Evil (or at least heavily morally bent) and murderous yes, but he isn't on a revenge-driven murder spree this time.

I actually see where he's coming from to a degree. He's evil and his stance is inexcusable, no doubt about that, but there's a twisted sort of sense in wanting to wipe the slate clean and start again.
That's how I see it, he's just going the wrong way about it imo. I'm wondering how this will be solved, it doesn't seem like this fight will go on long. I'm getting the feeling that both of them won't be fighting at their full potential since the war just ended.

Nodame
10th September 2014, 5:03 PM
It's finally here. I mean granted we knew it would come to this, but so soon. There will be a lot of bromance moments in the following chapters ew.




I hope Sakura gets involved in the fight and tries to punch Sasuke. I know she can't win, but it's the fact that she'd be willing to attack Sasuke of all people to help Naruto, that would really send a message. I hope Sakura does get involved, even if it's one-shot attack like Pain and Hinata. Good chapter. No, a great chapter. It revived Naruto vs Sasuke. Hokage Sasuke. That still makes me laugh.

YES. Kishi better deliver on Sakura's rage. Sasuke's pushed it too far this time. I'd rather Sakura stay single, than to see her end up with someone like Sasuke :x

Joltik-Kid
10th September 2014, 5:39 PM
Seeing as there is a break in the chapters next week... we have 11 more before the movie

Nodame
10th September 2014, 5:46 PM
Seeing as there is a break in the chapters next week... we have 11 more before the movie

December is 3 months away, which means we only have about 9 chapters left . I guess Kishi is really trying to wrap it up.

Red and Blue
10th September 2014, 6:00 PM
I actually really thought that Sasuke had changed. Sigh.


Although I wish it was under different circumstances, at least we got our Naruto vs Sasuke showdown. I hope this fight doesn't last to long though.

Akashin
10th September 2014, 6:09 PM
I actually really thought that Sasuke had changed. Sigh.


Although I wish it was under different circumstances, at least we got our Naruto vs Sasuke showdown. I hope this fight doesn't last to long though.

He has changed. Nothing that happened this chapter contradicts what he's been after; he wants to be Hokage, and he wants to change how the world works. He just hasn't started waving the Hero flag to do so. To say he hasn't changed is to blatantly ignore what this chapter said outright.

uber gon
10th September 2014, 6:20 PM
And all of this could have been avoided if Danzo wan't a giant douchebag in politics. Funny how a lot of things happened because of him.

Emperor Empoleon
10th September 2014, 7:45 PM
If Sasuke actually walks away from this as Naruto's BFF..............

Kamex
10th September 2014, 7:48 PM
So many backstabbing plot twists in a row... lol. After Sasuke is defeated, Kakashi will finally unveil his master plan of waiting for Sasuke's demise so that he can steal his Sharingan and be the only Sharingan user in the world!

Hm, I wonder if Sasuke will really end up killing any of the Kage. And how can he be redeemed after this I wonder...

Oh well, this fight is how the story should end regardless of what happens to him. I just hope it doesn't feel too rushed.

Platinum fan.
10th September 2014, 7:52 PM
I can't wait to see how TsukiMirage hand waves this Sasuke moment lol... wasn't interested in the Tail Beast huh? Wasn't a murderous psychopath huh?

Anyone with with basic reading comprehension should have saw Sasuke betraying everyone

TsukiMirage's post is the most eager I am looking forward to reading. Because I love his/her post.

Sasuke's methods all just seem to revolve around killing, darkness, and evil. I actually love that Sasuke worked with Naruto and now that their work is done he's willing to kill him. Kinda reminds me of how he betrayed Karin. Too bad nobody is hear to see this other then Kakashi and Sakura. I bet Orochimaru and Team Baka would all join Sasuke's side without a single thought.

It seems Itachi and the dead Hokage did change Sasuke, but his "change" still involves killing. Looks like it will be up to Naruto to change Sasuke after all. Either that or kill him. but we all know Naruto will find a way to cool down Sasuke. Even though he totally deserves a beating.

Red and Blue
10th September 2014, 8:00 PM
He has changed. Nothing that happened this chapter contradicts what he's been after; he wants to be Hokage, and he wants to change how the world works. He just hasn't started waving the Hero flag to do so. To say he hasn't changed is to blatantly ignore what this chapter said outright.

No he hasn't. He still believes that death and destruction is necessary to attain world peace. He hasn't learned a damn thing.

Platinum fan.
10th September 2014, 8:07 PM
No he hasn't. He still believes that death and destruction is necessary to attain world peace. He hasn't learned a damn thing.

That's not true. He learned how broken the Rinnegan was and was able to take control of all the Tailed Beast and tame them as if they were common Pokemon. Remember when these things were feared to be the strongest things in the series? Neither do I.

Kamex
10th September 2014, 8:08 PM
No he hasn't. He still believes that death and destruction is necessary to attain world peace. He hasn't learned a damn thing.
But he has changed in terms of his underlying goals. He used to want revenge, but not anymore. Now he just wants to strong-arm his "peace" ideology onto the world, much like Pain, Madara, Obito and perhaps Danzo (sort of) wanted.

Akashin
10th September 2014, 8:22 PM
No he hasn't. He still believes that death and destruction is necessary to attain world peace. He hasn't learned a damn thing.

Kamex already hit the nail on the head. Sasuke's modus operandi may not have changed, but his goals most definitely have. To say this Sasuke is the same Sasuke that wanted to commit genocide upon Konoha is completely wrong.


That's not true. He learned how broken the Rinnegan was and was able to take control of all the Tailed Beast and tame them as if they were common Pokemon. Remember when these things were feared to be the strongest things in the series? Neither do I.

Didn't this go out the window way back when we learned that the Mangekyo could tame the Kyuubi like it's nothing? That the Rinnegan can do the same on a larger and more powerful scale only makes sense to me.

Lorde
10th September 2014, 8:26 PM
Lol, I knew it. Sasuke's starting crap again; so much for him and Naruto being allies. Alas, it seems like the big battle between Naruto and Sasuke is finally here.

Platinum fan.
10th September 2014, 8:34 PM
Lol, I knew it. Sasuke's starting crap again; so much for him and Naruto being allies. Alas, it seems like the big battle between Naruto and Sasuke is finally here.

I didn't consider them allies much. With Sasuke stepping on Naruto's dream, there was bound to be a fight. It's just Sasuke's way of backstabbing everyone that seems to throw them off. We didn't hear Sasuke's response when he spoke to the Sage of Six Paths after all. We never did. I think I still would have preferred Sasuke aiming to kill Konoha, but this is a decent substitute and much better then a lame "friendly" rival over the kage seat. The only downside is we know Naruto won't kill Sasuke, even though he's a big enough threat where he should be.

Shneak
10th September 2014, 8:35 PM
Oh man, I had to take a break after seeing the reveal. My eyes rolled out of my skull and I started laughing.

Once again we have a new final villain. Sasuke is the best actor in the world to fool all of these people until now. Suddenly he's proficient enough with the Rinnegan to completely control the Bijuu with his eyes. Though, I admit, I'm glad the Naruto and Sasuke fight is happening under these circumstances instead of a friendly Hokage spar. I want to see Naruto completely destroy Sasuke but I know it won't happen.

I also hope that in the end Kurama gets to roam free and doesn't have to stay in Naruto.

Nodame
10th September 2014, 8:36 PM
I wonder what's Kakashi is going to do in this fight since he looked so pissed beyond belief.

Lorde
10th September 2014, 8:39 PM
I didn't consider them allies much. With Sasuke stepping on Naruto's dream, there was bound to be a fight. It's just Sasuke's way of backstabbing everyone that seems to throw them off. We didn't hear Sasuke's response when he spoke to the Sage of Six Paths after all. We never did. I think I still would have preferred Sasuke aiming to kill Konoha, but this is a decent substitute and much better then a lame "friendly" rival over the kage seat. The only downside is we know Naruto won't kill Sasuke, even though he's a big enough threat where he should be.

I was just remembering essays on other sites about how Sasuke was supposedly becoming a good guy again and redeeming himself when all along his backstabbing ways were foreshadowed. And sadly, Kakashi and Sakura have nothing to do now except commentate. Sigh.

Platinum fan.
10th September 2014, 8:42 PM
I wonder what's Kakashi is going to do in this fight since he looked so pissed beyond belief.

Probably nothing. In this clash of the Super Freaks, he can do nothing but watch. He doesn't have Obito's magical eyes anymore. Ideally I'd love for him and Sakura to try and get involved and land a good hit on Sasuke. Especially Sakura. Hey, if she can smack Kaguya, she can hulk smash Sasuke. I want all Team Seven members to get a good hit on Sasuke for the crap he put them through over the years.

Shneak
10th September 2014, 8:49 PM
Actually I think my favourite part of this chapter is Hagoromo. His reaction to Sasuke's betrayal was pretty great.

"Ugh, crap. I was hoping this wouldn't happen. Well, Naruto, I've gotta go. Hopefully you can deal with this? Meh."

Joltik-Kid
10th September 2014, 8:51 PM
Once again we have a new final villain. Sasuke is the best actor in the world to fool all of these people until now. Suddenly he's proficient enough with the Rinnegan to completely control the Bijuu with his eyes. Though, I admit, I'm glad the Naruto and Sasuke fight is happening under these circumstances instead of a friendly Hokage spar. I want to see Naruto completely destroy Sasuke but I know it won't happen.
Yeah... no one was fooled by Sasuke, except maybe the 4 Edo Kage. Sakura and Kakashi were well aware that Sasuke had other intentions, even Naruto kinda caught on when Sasuke mentioned he only save Sakura and Kakashi because Naruto was next to them. Sasuke stated in the chapter today that he was using them to get rid of threats in his path and now that Obito/Madara/Kaguya are gone, Naruto's the last one standing in his way.


I also hope that in the end Kurama gets to roam free and doesn't have to stay in Naruto.
He's got all the Bijuu still inside him... So technically none of them are truly free

SharpedoX
10th September 2014, 9:03 PM
I actually really thought that Sasuke had changed. Sigh.


Although I wish it was under different circumstances, at least we got our Naruto vs Sasuke showdown. I hope this fight doesn't last to long though.

Au contraire, this is going to be the manga's longest and final fight. Um... if that doesn't jinx it; this seems like ending material. If not, it sure has the vibes of it. Given Naruto is bound to end up Hokage by the end and given Sasuke's resolve, Tsunade's days are numbered. I'm pretty sure Killer B isn't bound to the genjutsu and will most definitely intervene when he sees Sasuke plans to kill the Raikage. Tenten is still around with the sealing tools though; one wonders what they'll be used for.

nuzamaki90
10th September 2014, 9:13 PM
Oh f*** that caught me off guard

It's finally time. I've waited 9 years. 9 DAMN YEARS! This battle will be hype as all hell. We got Naruto with the power of all Tailed Beasts AND the Sage VS Sasuke with the control of all the Tailed Beasts, the Rinnegan, AND the Sharingan. Madara is dead, Kaguya and Zetsu are gone, Kakashi lost the Sharingan, Sakura is being Sakura, the Kages have gone to the after life, the Sage has disappeared and every other person on the planet is in a endless daydream. There is literally nothing that can interrupt this fight and after that final page, I am 99% sure Naruto is going to beat the **** out of Sasuke and make sure he dies.

This was a great chapter but DAMN IT WE HAVE A BREAK NEXT WEEK. They always do this, right before the showdown there is a break for some oddball reason. Kishi just needs to know that I'm ready, and I will have my snacks every week for this.

Pokegirl Fan~
10th September 2014, 9:20 PM
Oh f*** that caught me off guard

It's finally time. I've waited 9 years. 9 DAMN YEARS! This battle will be hype as all hell. We got Naruto with the power of all Tailed Beasts AND the Sage VS Sasuke with the control of all the Tailed Beasts, the Rinnegan, AND the Sharingan. Madara is dead, Kaguya and Zetsu are gone, Kakashi lost the Sharingan, Sakura is being Sakura, the Kages have gone to the after life, the Sage has disappeared and every other person on the planet is in a endless daydream. There is literally nothing that can interrupt this fight and after that final page, I am 99% sure Naruto is going to beat the **** out of Sasuke and make sure he dies.

This was a great chapter but DAMN IT WE HAVE A BREAK NEXT WEEK. They always do this, right before the showdown there is a break for some oddball reason. Kishi just needs to know that I'm ready, and I will have my snacks every week for this.
We only got like 9 chapters or so though I have a feeling it might be rushed a little and I don't think Sasuke will die when the fight ends, but that's just me.

Red and Blue
10th September 2014, 9:24 PM
Au contraire, this is going to be the manga's longest and final fight. Um... if that doesn't jinx it; this seems like ending material. If not, it sure has the vibes of it. Given Naruto is bound to end up Hokage by the end and given Sasuke's resolve, Tsunade's days are numbered. I'm pretty sure Killer B isn't bound to the genjutsu and will most definitely intervene when he sees Sasuke plans to kill the Raikage. Tenten is still around with the sealing tools though; one wonders what they'll be used for.

The tools will be used for nothing. Madara, Kaguya, and Obito are gone. The tools were are complete waste.


If the fight is going to last till the end, then I guess this means there will be no post war content. Couldn't Kishimoto wait until the aftermath of the war?

Lorde
10th September 2014, 9:25 PM
Au contraire, this is going to be the manga's longest and final fight. Um... if that doesn't jinx it; this seems like ending material. If not, it sure has the vibes of it. Given Naruto is bound to end up Hokage by the end and given Sasuke's resolve, Tsunade's days are numbered. I'm pretty sure Killer B isn't bound to the genjutsu and will most definitely intervene when he sees Sasuke plans to kill the Raikage. Tenten is still around with the sealing tools though; one wonders what they'll be used for.

I don't think Sasuke will get a chance to attempt to murder A or the other Gokage though now that Naruto has confronted him. I'm actually hoping that Sasuke dies in the upcoming battle; his plans for revenge need to end once and for all imo.

Red and Blue
10th September 2014, 9:26 PM
I don't think Sasuke will get a chance to attempt to murder A or the other Gokage though now that Naruto has confronted him. I'm actually hoping that Sasuke dies in the upcoming battle; his plans for revenge need to end once and for all imo.

There's no way in hell Naruto would every kill Sasuke. I have a feeling he'll survive the final fight.

Void Ventus
10th September 2014, 9:27 PM
Au contraire, this is going to be the manga's longest and final fight. Um... if that doesn't jinx it; this seems like ending material. If not, it sure has the vibes of it. Given Naruto is bound to end up Hokage by the end and given Sasuke's resolve, Tsunade's days are numbered. I'm pretty sure Killer B isn't bound to the genjutsu and will most definitely intervene when he sees Sasuke plans to kill the Raikage. Tenten is still around with the sealing tools though; one wonders what they'll be used for.

Final? Yes. Longest? One of the shortest. The movie is a Timeskip and comes out in early December. The manga is going to end before then. Since there is a break next week, there's probably 10-11 chapters left (if there aren't any more breaks after next week).

Since Naruto is basically the current SO6P, he can use the Sage weapons just fine. Would be cool if he uses them. Maybe seal Sasuke instead of killing him?

SharpedoX
10th September 2014, 9:40 PM
Oh, I haven't heard of this movie so scratch the longest part then. Sealing Sasuke just doesn't feel the same. He won't have the guts to kill him. I don't think many people would like that outcome, speaking for myself, that is.

pwnswitchclik
10th September 2014, 10:01 PM
Aww yeah. In the tone of the Expand D*ng meme "Kishimoto delivers the Sasuke vs Naruto ultimate action at 3:28 AM".

Joltik-Kid
10th September 2014, 10:02 PM
The plot actually prevents Naruto from killing Sasuke... They need Sasuke Rinnegan to break the effects of the Infinite Tsukuyomi and more then likely to escape the Dimension they're in.

Lorde
10th September 2014, 10:05 PM
The plot actually prevents Naruto from killing Sasuke... They need Sasuke Rinnegan to break the effects of the Infinite Tsukuyomi and more then likely to escape the Dimension they're in.

They're already back in their own dimension; Hagoromo and the past Gokage brought them back a few chapters ago.

LexSuicune
10th September 2014, 10:06 PM
I'm calling it.

The moment Naruto is about to strike Sasuke's final blow Sakura will jump in, get killed and provide emo fodder.

Kamex
10th September 2014, 11:19 PM
I'm guessing this is going to end in Naruto's greatest Talk no Jutsu ever. I have mixed feelings about it though.

Void Ventus
10th September 2014, 11:30 PM
Naruto may just be a fictional story, but it's still crazy how Talk-No-Jutsu has worked 100% of the time. Granted, he does beat you up pretty badly beforehand, and when you're getting owned you tend to just surrender, but dang. What an impecable track record Naruto's TNJ has.

I fully expect Sasuke to reform and become exactly like RTN Sasuke once he get's TNJ'd.

RandysRage
10th September 2014, 11:50 PM
Somewhere in the Pure World, Itachi just facepalm'd himself.

Profesco
11th September 2014, 12:14 AM
Looks like it will be up to Naruto to change Sasuke after all. Either that or kill him. but we all know Naruto will find a way to cool down Sasuke. Even though he totally deserves a beating.


I'm glad the Naruto and Sasuke fight is happening under these circumstances instead of a friendly Hokage spar. I want to see Naruto completely destroy Sasuke but I know it won't happen.

Naruto won't kill him, but he will destroy him. It's going to feel so good when we finally see Naruto standing over a crumpled up, remorseful, mangled Sasuke. Ohhhhh boy has he had it coming for so long. So long. I want to see Naruto beat Sasuke so badly that he can't even roll those stupid arrogant eyes of his, let alone cast jutsu with them.


It's finally time. I've waited 9 years. 9 DAMN YEARS! This battle will be hype as all hell. We got Naruto with the power of all Tailed Beasts AND the Sage VS Sasuke with the control of all the Tailed Beasts, the Rinnegan, AND the Sharingan. Madara is dead, Kaguya and Zetsu are gone, Kakashi lost the Sharingan, Sakura is being Sakura, the Kages have gone to the after life, the Sage has disappeared and every other person on the planet is in a endless daydream. There is literally nothing that can interrupt this fight and after that final page, I am 99% sure Naruto is going to beat the **** out of Sasuke and make sure he dies.

This is such a fun paragraph. It is cool that there really isn't anything left in their world to interrupt them. It's the Valley of the End part II - for reals this time, yo. It's going to be the best fight in the series.

Oh my gosh. I almost don't want to read the manga. I feel like I should just wait until this is animated. Even considering all the advantages the manga has over the anime, still, watching the series' best fights animated has to be one of the better ways to experience this story. But it's going to take so long for the anime to get there... Ugh.

Platinum fan.
11th September 2014, 12:15 AM
They're already back in their own dimension; Hagoromo and the past Gokage brought them back a few chapters ago.

That's what I thought too. I thought they were back already. You know, if Sasuke gets killed that would be the end of the Uchihas and the end of their hatred or whatever it is they plague the world with. How tempting. Finish off Sasuke and the Uchihas are no more. That would be one way to destroy the cycle of hatred. Just saying. It's a bad way to end it, but the world would be saved from Uchiha madness.

Void Ventus
11th September 2014, 2:38 AM
That's what I thought too. I thought they were back already. You know, if Sasuke gets killed that would be the end of the Uchihas and the end of their hatred or whatever it is they plague the world with. How tempting. Finish off Sasuke and the Uchihas are no more. That would be one way to destroy the cycle of hatred. Just saying. It's a bad way to end it, but the world would be saved from Uchiha madness.

There's still a way for an eye like Rinnegan to be born. If the series ends with a NaruHina shipping, can you guess what their child(ren?) will be? Half Uzumaki, Half Hyuuga (well, Half Namikaze too, and forget the exact percentage for now). Uzumakis are closely related to Senjus, and Hyuugas are closely related to Uchihas by their eyes. Being of Uzumaki/Hyuuga descent isn't the same as being of Senju/Uchiha descent, but it's still very close enough. Heck, an even stronger or nearly similar Dojutsu than Rinnegan might be formed. An Uzu/Hyu love child might also have the probability of turning something even worse than those darn dirty backstabbing Uchihas (except Itachi and Shisui 'cuz they cool like that).

Shneak
11th September 2014, 2:44 AM
I'm calling it.

The moment Naruto is about to strike Sasuke's final blow Sakura will jump in, get killed and provide emo fodder.

I read speculation that they'll collide with Rasengan/Chidori which is where their seals will touch. Basically the Infinite Tsukyomi is dispelled and Sasuke has to face thousands of ninja instead of just Naruto and he'll surrender.

Lorde
11th September 2014, 2:49 AM
Basically the Infinite Tsukyomi is dispelled and Sasuke has to face thousands of ninja instead of just Naruto and he'll surrender.

Sasuke's not gonna let numbers stop him; he'd still continue fighting even if he has to face an army. He'll either be killed or talk no jutsu'd and it'll almost certainly be the latter unfortunately imo.

LucarioTheSuperSaiyajin
11th September 2014, 3:00 AM
I'm calling it.

The moment Naruto is about to strike Sasuke's final blow Sakura will jump in, get killed and provide emo fodder.

Somewhat illogical, cuz if Sakura was killed cuz of her jumping in between the attacks, she wouldn't appear on The Last Naruto.

My bet: Naruto would talk no jutsu him, but it wouldn't work, so, he has no option but to kill him, like Hashirama did with Madara.

My last prediction: I think last chapter of manga would be in the best case, in November 12th if the last one is the 700th (if there are no hiatus like the next week one), or in the worst case, on December 3rd (to stay in line with the movie). However that would imply several hiatus if the manga ends on the 700th episode (that week however would be ironical for Naruto, cuz Naruto would end the same day his inspiration, Dragon Ball, had debuted 30 years ago exactly)

Obito888
11th September 2014, 4:38 AM
It's probably not going to turn out like we expect; I'm not all to sure if anyone's going to die here in this final battle - maybe Sasuke will, who knows? Obviously Naruto and Sakura survive; they're in the last movie. Kakashi and Sasuke could die, but the basic argument for those possibilities is that we haven't seen character sketches for them yet.

It might be a little farfetched, but maybe after battling a while, Naruto and Sasuke will find a solution together. Maybe they won't turn out like their predecessors. If it was as simple as Naruto just killing off the final 'villain' (I'd say he's more gray in nature), I'd be a bit disappointed, personally. Sasuke isn't my absolute favorite character, but I will admit that this fight has had better build-up than Kaguya did. We're all so quick to believe that Naruto will find the solution to everything and dismiss Sasuke because of his 'revolutionary' goals, but I think there's the possibility that he'll be a key factor just as much as Naruto in putting an end to all this. Those are my thoughts, anyway.

insanejames
11th September 2014, 5:12 AM
And thus Sasuke true goal has been revealed he is very much like Madara weather he wish to adimt it or not. Still we all new this was coming the final battle between them i can't wait to see how Naruto gets around Amaterasu (my guess is shadow clones) and breaks Susanoo

Joltik-Kid
11th September 2014, 5:25 AM
I fully expect Sasuke to reform and become exactly like RTN Sasuke once he get's TNJ'd.
Sasuke becomes a Womanizer?

Nodame
11th September 2014, 3:54 PM
Sasuke becomes a Womanizer?

So in character ~

Platinum fan.
11th September 2014, 5:43 PM
Of all the things I'm looking forward to in this fight, what I am not looking forward to is Naruto trying to talk sense into Sasuke, trying to appease his "good side" or trying to get Sasuke to care about Team 7, or more of that "I'm your friend" junk. I just want to see these two fight with Naruto erasing that smug arrogant smirk Sasuke has everytime he gains a new Uchiha power. I can't wait to see Naruto punch that smirk off Sasuke's face. That will be a moment I treasure and make this entire long war arc worth it. At least they won't do that crappy "We'll die together if we fight." thing. I guess even Kishi thought that was bad.

Someone mentioned that Sakura should/will jump in front of Naruto and Sasuke's clash. I'll only like that if Sakura uppercuts Sasuke because she wants a piece of him before Naruto. I'm sure we'll get plenty of references to Naruto and Sasuke's hospital brawl, their battle in the Valley of the Ends, and comparing them to Madara/Hashirama, the Sannin and every other big figure that had a rival in this series. Anyway the only person that needs to jump in front of them and get killed is Karin. She'd gladly die for the man that almost killed her. Sasuke would think nothing of it either.

Lorde
11th September 2014, 8:00 PM
Does Naruto still have Kurama's other half? Because if he does that should even things up a bit imo. After all, Sasuke's haxxed out with his EMS/Rinnegan and perfect Susano'o and that makes him quite formidable.

Platinum fan.
11th September 2014, 8:44 PM
I don't even know, I'm a little confused how that whole thing works. Naruto is going to be the underdog anyway so Kishi keeping Kurama's chakra away from him at first seems likely to happen. I don't expect Naruto to be wailing on Sasuke in the first chapter of their fight. If anything Sasuke will more then likely dominate the first half for that underdog effect. As long as it's not one sided the entire time like their part 1 finale. How anyone could think that was a good fight manga-wise is beyond me. Anime-wise at least leveled the playing field and didn't make it so obvious who was going to win. LOL, Naruto only had one page of a counterattack. Still makes me laugh so hard. One page of counterattack.

DANdotW
11th September 2014, 8:48 PM
Does Naruto still have Kurama's other half? Because if he does that should even things up a bit imo. After all, Sasuke's haxxed out with his EMS/Rinnegan and perfect Susano'o and that makes him quite formidable.

If I read it right, he has part of each Tailed Beast's chakra. I think...

XanderCage
11th September 2014, 8:55 PM
Does Naruto still have Kurama's other half? Because if he does that should even things up a bit imo. After all, Sasuke's haxxed out with his EMS/Rinnegan and perfect Susano'o and that makes him quite formidable.

According to Kurama himself, Naruto still has the other half of Kurama sealed inside of him. I would assume that would still be the case as it was stated when they were all summoned back to their own dimension and there hasn't been enough time to do anything between the summoning, saying goodbye to dad, and Sasuke sealing the bijuu.

Nodame
14th September 2014, 2:58 AM
Rant time:
Err I can't believe that mostly all characters are underdeveloped, except Gaara. If you're not villain or a member of team 7, then you're not going to be teated well. Kishi's favouritism is ruining Naruto.

Pokegirl Fan~
14th September 2014, 3:00 AM
Rant time:
Err I can't believe that mostly all characters are underdeveloped, except Gaara. If you're not villain or a member of team 7, then you're not going to be teated well. Kishi's favouritism is ruining Naruto.
I agree, though I do think Shikamaru was handled well also imo.

Nodame
14th September 2014, 3:10 AM
I agree, though I do think Shikamaru was handled well also imo.

Shikamaru is farther developed than most, but I'd consider him mid tier in terms of writing, and he lacks screen time too. I still like him a lot though.

Lorde
14th September 2014, 3:16 AM
Shikamaru is farther developed than most, but I'd consider him mid tier in terms of writing, and he lacks screen time too. I still like him a lot though.

I don't see his screen-time (or lack thereof) as a surprise; he's not part of Team 7 after all, so of course he's stuck with a supporting role at best. Still, he got practically the whole Kakuzu & Hidan arc for his development, which is more than most other supporting characters have gotten.

Red and Blue
14th September 2014, 3:27 AM
Rant time:
Err I can't believe that mostly all characters are underdeveloped, except Gaara. If you're not villain or a member of team 7, then you're not going to be teated well. Kishi's favouritism is ruining Naruto.

I agree, so much wasted potential.

After the Sasuke Retrival arc, I hade high hopes for characters such as Choji and Neji. Choji especially, considering all the great character development he got in that arc.

PokeMaster366
14th September 2014, 3:36 AM
Rant time:
Err I can't believe that mostly all characters are underdeveloped, except Gaara. If you're not villain or a member of team 7, then you're not going to be teated well. Kishi's favouritism is ruining Naruto.

Admittedly, this is a similar problem that Bleach has as well. The cast itself is so huge that not a lot of time can be dedicated to each member. Most of the characters will outright fade into the background or become fodder so the more popular characters can have their moment to shine. One Piece can be said to have this problem as well; however, it circumvents it somewhat with the sheer amount of time it takes to explain everything while taking entire arcs to go over a certain group of characters with the main crew being put on the sidelines when it comes to development since they'll already have time throughout the series for development themselves. Naruto and Bleach focus too hard on the titular character and a couple of others closest to them to really branch out much to other characters. It's always a shame when there's a boatload of characters, but only enough personality and backstory for a small dinghy's worth.

Nodame
14th September 2014, 3:45 AM
I agree, so much wasted potential.

After the Sasuke Retrival arc, I hade high hopes for characters such as Choji and Neji. Choji especially, considering all the great character development he got in that arc.
Its a shame because all characters have great concept, for example, the Hyugas, Ino's ability and so on. Of course some characters are more important than others. That's how it goes, but that doesn't mean he should just downright ignore all the other characters. Instead of this terrible war arc, he should have fleshed out his characters, imo.

Void Ventus
14th September 2014, 7:04 AM
Here's my opinion of the Konoha kids in terms of development

Developed (pretty sure this is a "Thanks, Captain Obvious" answer)
Naruto
Sakura
Sasuke

Had a great development, but not as much as Team 7
Shikamaru
Sai

Had a bit of development
Hinata

Under freaking developed
Choji and Ino (they did jack squat in the Hidan and Kakuzu rematch. WTF you useless tools)
Rock Lee, Tenten, Neji
Kiba
Shino (EL OH EL WHAT THE FLIPPING HECK! He gets no part in the Sasuke Retrieval Arc, and he also gets no part in Shippuden)

Anyways, anyone getting Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm Revolution on Tuesday?

Platinum fan.
14th September 2014, 7:51 AM
Rant time:
Err I can't believe that mostly all characters are underdeveloped, except Gaara. If you're not villain or a member of team 7, then you're not going to be teated well. Kishi's favouritism is ruining Naruto.

Well isn't this just a random outburst, lol. As far as the characters go, not many of them had big character development in part 2. But they at least had moments of being useful.
Shikamaru of course has been developing throughout part 1 and 2. The fact that he'd make a good Hokage, to me says he developed very well. I'd even consider him the strongest of the Konoha 11, even more so then Neji. Obviously not Naruto or Sasuke level.

Ino and Choji did not get nearly as much as Shikamaru did. Choji got minor things here and there. And while he didn't become a very developed character, he became very useful to Konoha. He was on the front lines fighting the Pain dolls with Kakashi and his father. That's a big spot for Choji to be in. Ino got her moments of glory in the war arc. She's never going to be a powerhouse, but she doesn't have to be. She's a support ninja and Kishi showed just how useful she is in a team. Team 10 functions way better then Team 7 do as a team. They aren't broken and they play off each other to near perfection. Plus Ino got to take a break from being a Sasuke groupie, which made me actual like the character.


Kiba, Hinata, and Shino. Really of these bunch, only Hinata got any form of development. She got braver, more determined but her lack of panel time hurts her and so we rarely get to see it. On top of that the team don't even get a shining moment in the war like Team 10. Very underdeveloped was this team.

Then there's Rock Lee, Neji, and Tenten. Wow what happened? Neji and Rock Lee were big time names in part 1. Part 2 dropped them both to Tenten status. Both seemed to have gotten stronger the rare times we see them. I mean if Lee ever becomes like Might Guy he'll be legendary. Too bad he never fights on panel again. Neji we only see glimpses of his new Jounin powers.

Overall I was pleased with how Shikamaru, Choji, Ino, and to a lesser extent Hinata turned out in part 2. Neji and Lee were great in part 1 but not in part 2. Shino had good fights but beyond that nothing. Everyone else...meh.

Void Ventus
14th September 2014, 9:03 AM
^Shikamaru as Hokage? Nope. Kages need to be the strongest in their respective villages. If Shikaku isn't Hokage-worthy, then Shikamaru ain't either. They both fulfill the role of the Hokage's right-hand man, which would be to help Naruto decide on government, war, and economical plans.

The problem with Shippuden is the same problem with Dragonball Z, which is the uber villains. The villains become over the top, so the only rational progression is to turn the MC and his main rival into mini gods.

Platinum fan.
14th September 2014, 3:38 PM
^Shikamaru as Hokage? Nope. Kages need to be the strongest in their respective villages. If Shikaku isn't Hokage-worthy, then Shikamaru ain't either. They both fulfill the role of the Hokage's right-hand man, which would be to help Naruto decide on government, war, and economical plans.

The problem with Shippuden is the same problem with Dragonball Z, which is the uber villains. The villains become over the top, so the only rational progression is to turn the MC and his main rival into mini gods.

Tsunade's not the strongest in Konoha. Maybe physically she is but not the whole package of powerful. Every fight she enters ends with her shriveling up into a helpless old prune. Shikamaru has the smarts to be Hokage. He's shown to have been a great leader in any situation, and it's his smarts and planning that make him a reliable. Maybe he's not Super Freak Club material, but Shikamaru has proven to be just as smart as most of the big dogs in the series. The fact that Kishi had someone tell Shikamaru he'd make a good Hokage says a lot. But Shikamaru's like Kakashi, and wouldn't take the job.

Lorde
14th September 2014, 8:09 PM
Had a great development, but not as much as Team 7
Shikamaru
Sai

But isn't Sai part of Team 7 also? Plus I disagree about his development; all he really got was some in his intro arc, a bit during the Gokage Summit arc, and a bit during the war, which isn't nearly as much as Shikamaru imo.

Nodame
14th September 2014, 8:18 PM
I changed my mind about Shikamaru's development. I forgot about the Kakuzu arc tbh, so yeah he was handled pretty well for a side character.

Jb
14th September 2014, 10:38 PM
^Shikamaru as Hokage? Nope. Kages need to be the strongest in their respective villages. If Shikaku isn't Hokage-worthy, then Shikamaru ain't either. They both fulfill the role of the Hokage's right-hand man, which would be to help Naruto decide on government, war, and economical plans.


Ehh, I disagree. I'm pretty sure Itachi was Stronger than the 3rd when he was still in the village. As for Tsunade, in a fight I'm sure she'd lose against Kakashi, Guy, Naruto, and probably even Shikamaru and Neji.

Hell, the only "recent" time where the "Hokage" was actually the strongest in the village was when they decided they wanted Jariaya. Nobody was on his level at the time.

Void Ventus
14th September 2014, 11:49 PM
Ehh, I disagree. I'm pretty sure Itachi was Stronger than the 3rd when he was still in the village. As for Tsunade, in a fight I'm sure she'd lose against Kakashi, Guy, Naruto, and probably even Shikamaru and Neji.

Hell, the only "recent" time where the "Hokage" was actually the strongest in the village was when they decided they wanted Jariaya. Nobody was on his level at the time.
Dude took on ET Hashirama and Tobirama, and Orochimaru at the same time even after way past his prime. Pretty sure he was stronger than 14-year old Itachi or however old he was before joining Akatsuki.

As for Tsunade, she was chosen pre-Shippuden, so no DBZ-level characters yet. Kakashi could probably beat her, and Gai could definitely beat her. However, pre-Ship Naruto, Shikamaru, and Neji? I have to disagree. Especially on pre-ship Shikamaru.

Platinum fan.
17th September 2014, 8:05 PM
Oh right, no Naruto this week. Crud. We should try and discuss something while we wait for the new chapter. I don't have any topics to discuss though.

Lorde
17th September 2014, 10:10 PM
Dude took on ET Hashirama and Tobirama, and Orochimaru at the same time even after way past his prime.

He was losing until he used the Reaper Death Seal though, which cost him his life. Plus Orochimaru didn't really fight much during that melee; after using Edo Tensei, he didn't take action again until the end and he managed to get away anyway. Hiruzen wasn't that strong imo.

Platinum fan.
17th September 2014, 10:21 PM
He was losing until he used the Reaper Death Seal though, which cost him his life. Plus Orochimaru didn't really fight much during that melee; after using Edo Tensei, he didn't take action again until the end and he managed to get away anyway. Hiruzen wasn't that strong imo.

For part 1, Hiruzen was amazing. The powers are inconsistent. Hashirama and Tobirama were nowhere near as powerful in part 1 as they were here in part 2. Remember when we all were asking how on earth Hashirama beat Madara, when the latter showed just how powerful he was?

Then there's the whole strongest Hokage thing. First it was implied that Minato was the strongest, then Hiruzen, then Minato again, and then Hashirama and he still holds the title right now. I totally agree about Orochimaru. He let his Edo Tensei's do all the dirty work. I wonder what he could possibly do today, with Edo Tensei's weakness totally exposed to everyone in the war.

Nodame
18th September 2014, 2:07 PM
It's hard to live without Naruto eh ? LOL, today I was like "there is something missing right ?" It will be hard to wait until next week, it will be even harder when the manga ends :-(

justinjiaxinghu
18th September 2014, 6:09 PM
Oruchimaru is kind of irrelevant as a villain now. He's completely outclassed by most shinobi and as the posters above me said, Edo Tensei's weaknesses have been revealed already.

Pokegirl Fan~
18th September 2014, 6:59 PM
Oruchimaru is kind of irrelevant as a villain now. He's completely outclassed by most shinobi and as the posters above me said, Edo Tensei's weaknesses have been revealed already.

I don't really think he'll be doing much unless he somehow joins sides with Sasuke, but I doubt that will happen.

Lorde
18th September 2014, 9:09 PM
For part 1, Hiruzen was amazing. The powers are inconsistent. Hashirama and Tobirama were nowhere near as powerful in part 1 as they were here in part 2. Remember when we all were asking how on earth Hashirama beat Madara, when the latter showed just how powerful he was?

Then there's the whole strongest Hokage thing. First it was implied that Minato was the strongest, then Hiruzen, then Minato again, and then Hashirama and he still holds the title right now. I totally agree about Orochimaru. He let his Edo Tensei's do all the dirty work. I wonder what he could possibly do today, with Edo Tensei's weakness totally exposed to everyone in the war.

I think Minato's decline is sad. He was my favorite character in Part 1 based on hype alone, but he was rather unimpressive ever since he was revived. I was hoping he'd do something cool before dying again, but alas. He feels like the weakest Hokage now in my opinion.

Platinum fan.
19th September 2014, 2:12 AM
I think Minato's decline is sad. He was my favorite character in Part 1 based on hype alone, but he was rather unimpressive ever since he was revived. I was hoping he'd do something cool before dying again, but alas. He feels like the weakest Hokage now in my opinion.

I'd still put him above Tsunade and maybe Hiruzen. Minato in his prime could match A and Killer Bee, and cleverly took down Fakedara. I still consider him one of the best Hokage. Minato's more of a Kakashi style fighter then a Super Freak one. I actually like that about Minato and was so upset when they made him a Naruto rip-off when in Edo Tensei form. Because it was Kishi's way of saying the legendary Minato who got so much hype in Naruto falls short of the villains of today and needs a cheap upgrade to keep up. To me it was a big insult to Minato's previous skills. Hiruzen didn't get a big upgrade and he did fairly well in the war.

Jb
19th September 2014, 2:28 AM
So who was stronger in their prime? Hashirama or Hiruzen? Hashi seems good but it seemed like Hiruzen has a ton of moves he could of used

Nodame
19th September 2014, 3:13 AM
I don't really think he'll be doing much unless he somehow joins sides with Sasuke, but I doubt that will happen.

I agree, I don't care about Orochimaru anymore tbh, he has lost its glory.

Lorde
19th September 2014, 3:25 AM
Hashirama was the strongest Hokage at his peak imo. I mean he beat Madara at the Final Valley, who was one of the strongest ninja alive, and he controlled several Bijuu at one point. I can't give Hiruzen proper credit sadly since his skills weren't showcased as much.

Nodame
19th September 2014, 3:38 AM
My point of view you cant compare the Hokages to check who is most powerful because each one is unique. Maybe Hashirama is very powerful, but at the same time Tobirama is also powerful. I couldn't care less since all Hokages are boring to me *yawn*

Void Ventus
19th September 2014, 12:44 PM
So who was stronger in their prime? Hashirama or Hiruzen? Hashi seems good but it seemed like Hiruzen has a ton of moves he could of used
Most people would say Hashirama. But we barely know anything about Hiruzen. We keep hearing about how he was supposed to be this almighty ninja in his youth, but all we see of him in his youth is at the village, training the Sannin. The other time we see him in "youth" is 13 years prior to part 1, when the Kyuubi and Obito attacked the Leaf. But even then, he was already retired, and Minato was the 4th Hokage. Hiruzen at his peak could have probably been able to defeat Hashirama, but since we know nothing other than these mentions, Hashi will keep winning.

Pokegirl Fan~
19th September 2014, 2:41 PM
My point of view you cant compare the Hokages to check who is most powerful because each one is unique. Maybe Hashirama is very powerful, but at the same time Tobirama is also powerful. I couldn't care less since all Hokages are boring to me *yawn*

It didn't use to be like that to me, all the hokages back in part 1 seemed really interesting because we hardly knew anything about them and Minato seemed to have an interesting backstory, well whatever we got about him, and it really added something to it, and he felt like he really was the strongest for some reason. I think reviving them in the war was a mistake because they all seemed nerfed now, especially Minato :x

Platinum fan.
19th September 2014, 2:54 PM
So who was stronger in their prime? Hashirama or Hiruzen? Hashi seems good but it seemed like Hiruzen has a ton of moves he could of used

I guess it depends on who's hype you believe more. I would give the edge to Hashirama since he did beat Madara back in the day. Hiruzen however was heavily praised in Part 1 as being this genius shinobi. Getting the nickname the "professor" and several confirming that if not for his old age he would have beaten Orochimaru, even with his Edo Tensei's. It's really about hype. Part 1 never hyped Hashirama up like part 2 did. And I feel the only reason Hashirama got his hype is because of what a monster Kishi made out of Madara and his powers breaking ever ninja scale possible. Because before part 2, the only legendary Hokages names you ever heard were Minato and Hiruzen. The Hashirama and Tobirama didn't even have names back in part 1.

Nodame
19th September 2014, 3:40 PM
It didn't use to be like that to me, all the hokages back in part 1 seemed really interesting because we hardly knew anything about them and Minato seemed to have an interesting backstory, well whatever we got about him, and it really added something to it, and he felt like he really was the strongest for some reason. I think reviving them in the war was a mistake because they all seemed nerfed now, especially Minato :x

I agree with you about Minato tbh, I liked him at first, but I'm neutral toward him nowadays. Though Tsunade will always be my favourite Hokage because of her personality.

Sasuke and Kakashi sketches www.saiyanisland.com/2014/09/the-last-naruto-the-movie-sasuke-and-kakashi/

Pokegirl Fan~
19th September 2014, 4:16 PM
I agree with you about Minato tbh, I liked him at first, but I'm neutral toward him nowadays. Though Tsunade will always be my favourite Hokage because of her personality.

Sasuke and Kakashi sketches www.saiyanisland.com/2014/09/the-last-naruto-the-movie-sasuke-and-kakashi/

LOL at Sasuke's new design. Guess that means he won't die, I figured he wouldn't anyways though. His design looks still kinda dark though, maybe he's still an antihero/villain in the movie?
Kakashi looks exactly the same to me.

Platinum fan.
19th September 2014, 4:26 PM
I agree with you about Minato tbh, I liked him at first, but I'm neutral toward him nowadays. Though Tsunade will always be my favourite Hokage because of her personality.

Sasuke and Kakashi sketches www.saiyanisland.com/2014/09/the-last-naruto-the-movie-sasuke-and-kakashi/

Is that Sasuke or Tayuya? I can't tell. I guess he lives through the Naruto vs Sasuke fight. But I doubt anyone wants him as Hokage. I bet he's the Madara of the current era.

lolipiece
19th September 2014, 4:43 PM
He kind of has to, since without him, they can't free everyone.

Platinum fan.
19th September 2014, 4:46 PM
He kind of has to, since without him, they can't free everyone.

Do they really need Sasuke? What a bummer. Judging from his look I bet Sasuke takes over the Sound Village, or what's left of it. He can be the Gokage of Orochimaru, Karin, Jugo, and Suigetsu. Those sheep will follow him anywhere.

Pokegirl Fan~
19th September 2014, 4:53 PM
He kind of has to, since without him, they can't free everyone.

So I'm guessing that Sasuke will eventually be persuaded and become 100% good then?

Nodame
19th September 2014, 5:42 PM
Is that Sasuke or Tayuya? I can't tell. I guess he lives through the Naruto vs Sasuke fight. But I doubt anyone wants him as Hokage. I bet he's the Madara of the current era.

I have a feeling he'll start a new village with team taka..

Shadow Lucario
19th September 2014, 6:33 PM
Kakashi never really changes. Bet he is still wearing the same flak jacket with the same exact clothes. Just no Sharingan now. Looks like Raikiri is out of his arsenal now.

Shneak
19th September 2014, 7:18 PM
Yeah, that sketch basically confirms the only thing we needed to know: whether Sasuke lives through this fight. I guess he could be the villain in the epilogue still. His design is back to menacing.

Naruto looks so weird with cropped hair.

Jb
19th September 2014, 8:29 PM
Naruto looks more "hokage-ish" with shorter hair

Can we even see if Kakashi doesn't have sharigan anymore? his pupil looks kinda hollow so I think it's up in the air atm

Lorde
19th September 2014, 8:33 PM
I hope that Kishi used his one-week break to thoroughly plan out the upcoming fight; if it's mediocre like Team 7's battle against Kaguya, I'm gonna be pissed. I've waited too long for this moment, so Kishi had better deliver.

Pokegirl Fan~
19th September 2014, 8:37 PM
I hope that Kishi used his one-week break to thoroughly plan out the upcoming fight; if it's mediocre like Team 7's battle against Kaguya, I'm gonna be pissed. I've waited too long for this moment, so Kishi had better deliver.

Aren't the chapters planned a while before they're released? The entire fight may have already been finished by now if it's going to end soon.

Shadow Lucario
19th September 2014, 8:59 PM
Can we even see if Kakashi doesn't have sharigan anymore? his pupil looks kinda hollow so I think it's up in the air atm

Just compare his eye to Sasuke's right eye. You can tell that Sasuke has the Sharingan because of the tomoe around his pupil, but Kakashi doesn't have it.

Platinum fan.
19th September 2014, 11:01 PM
Naruto looks more "hokage-ish" with shorter hair

Can we even see if Kakashi doesn't have sharigan anymore? his pupil looks kinda hollow so I think it's up in the air atm

Really? You think so? Well at least he doesn't look like Gaara's father anymore. From a distance he kinda looks like one of those fodder ninjas that hold the staff right before some super villain take them out. The new look is okay. I think his Part 2 look, looks much better but maybe that's because I've been viewing that one for so long now.

Sasuke looks like a fusion of Tayuya, Orochimaru, and Madara all rolled into one. He doesn't look at all friendly, so I wonder where he stands at the end of part 2? Doesn't look like a Konoha shinobi but looks can fool you.

Void Ventus
19th September 2014, 11:39 PM
What's with the headpiece made of gauze? Looks so tacky, unless he now lives in the Sand. Why is he wearing two (TWO!!) chain necklaces?? I was joking about becoming the same as RTN Sasuke! >:0 If he's still a villain in The Last, then it seems Naruto didn't end the feud between the brothers after all. Ashura vs Indra will keep on truckin'.

Kakashi's still wearing his headband, so I guess that confirms he's not Hokage. Is Tsunade still going to become Hokage though?

Mr. Reloaded
20th September 2014, 5:13 PM
I'm just glad this whole series is coming to an end (mainly because of the never ending war).

It's kinda obvious Sasuke has to lose, but it's a matter of how the fight pans out. All I ask is the fight is actually good for once, they're both super strong now, it should be good.

Lorde
20th September 2014, 8:23 PM
Since Naruto needs Sasuke's help to undo the Infinite Tsukuyomi, Sasuke will definitely be talk no jutsu'd into complying imo. That makes the fight's result predictable, but alas.

Pokegirl Fan~
20th September 2014, 10:19 PM
Since Naruto needs Sasuke's help to undo the Infinite Tsukuyomi, Sasuke will definitely be talk no jutsu'd into complying imo. That makes the fight's result predictable, but alas.

Yeah, I wonder what his role will be in the movie though, I don't think he'll be a villain anymore.

TsukiMirage
20th September 2014, 10:21 PM
Wow, finally got around to reading, and I guess I was wrong about a final fight. Not all that interested in it though, due to the outcome being pretty obvious. Still, I suppose it's better then ending with Kaguya.


I'm pretty sure Sasuke was pissed about his entire clan being wiped out. Itachi might be number one at the list but he's mentioned the others. He even told Kakashi and Sakura he would only stop if they revived his entire clan. If only someone in Konoha knew Edo Tensei. Yeah, Sasuke mentioned others, but Itachi was the main motivation. He mentions several times his hatred for Konoha due to them manipulating/hurting Itachi. Also, pretty sure Sasuke was being facetious, since he was showing knowing at least the basics of Edo Tensei.


And still, Sasuke would make a lousy Hokage. It's not like he actually cares about anyone but his own motives. Sasuke only likes you if you are useful. You stop being useful and he'll back stab you or trash talk you. Yeah, sounds like a real good choice for Hokage. Just the idea of Sasuke as Hokage is a joke. I can't believe we are to take this seriously. This from the guy who planned to murder them all not that long ago. I'm sorry but it's laughable. In no way shape or form should Sasuke's name be a candidate for Hokage. Naruto saved the village from Pain and his name wasn't a candidate for Hokage, so Sasuke needs get that Hokage fantasy out of his head. Just because Sasuke doesn't actively show love doesn't mean he doesn't care. Part One showed us that. He was nonchalant to both Naruto and Sakura all throughout it, yet multiple times stated how they were dear to him. And that bold completely false. The only time Sasuke was ever like that was solely during the summit arc. We have far more examples in Part Two showing that while he's not affectionate, he's not that bad. Need I point out how he had Suigetsu free all of Orochimaru's prisoners, despite them being of no use to him.

Naruto's not a candidate because the role of Hokage actually requires more then raw strength. Naruto has nothing else going for him to make him a candidate then that. Sasuke on the other hand is actually pretty similar to the previous Hokages, especially Tobirama. Most importantly, Sasuke has been shown willing to make the hard decision. We have seen that not only does the Hokage have to willingly send people to their deaths, they could also have to sacrifice their own citizens for the greater good. Sasuke's clearly capable of that.

Platinum fan.
21st September 2014, 1:25 AM
Wow, finally got around to reading, and I guess I was wrong about a final fight. Not all that interested in it though, due to the outcome being pretty obvious. Still, I suppose it's better then ending with Kaguya.

Yeah, Sasuke mentioned others, but Itachi was the main motivation. He mentions several times his hatred for Konoha due to them manipulating/hurting Itachi. Also, pretty sure Sasuke was being facetious, since he was showing knowing at least the basics of Edo Tensei.

Just because Sasuke doesn't actively show love doesn't mean he doesn't care. Part One showed us that. He was nonchalant to both Naruto and Sakura all throughout it, yet multiple times stated how they were dear to him. And that bold completely false. The only time Sasuke was ever like that was solely during the summit arc. We have far more examples in Part Two showing that while he's not affectionate, he's not that bad. Need I point out how he had Suigetsu free all of Orochimaru's prisoners, despite them being of no use to him.

Naruto's not a candidate because the role of Hokage actually requires more then raw strength. Naruto has nothing else going for him to make him a candidate then that. Sasuke on the other hand is actually pretty similar to the previous Hokages, especially Tobirama. Most importantly, Sasuke has been shown willing to make the hard decision. We have seen that not only does the Hokage have to willingly send people to their deaths, they could also have to sacrifice their own citizens for the greater good. Sasuke's clearly capable of that.

Sasuke of today would never make a better Hokage over Naruto. Naruto connects with people and unites them. Sasuke plans to execute the current Gokage therefore eliminating the peace all the nations just obtained. That makes Sasuke not only a lousy Hokage but a lowlife in general backstabbing the nations like that. Naruto's not perfect but he's way better then Sasuke in that he actually cares for people. Sasuke doesn't care about anything that doesn't revolve around his own personal agenda. Sasuke would be no better then Danzo as Hokage. Both would sacrifice others to become Hokage.

Nodame
21st September 2014, 5:35 PM
I think that Sasuke wanting to be Hokage is a good character development for him. Bad guy turns into being protective and wanting to change the world into a better place is not so bad as people believe its going to be. Its only bad if he intend to go the Madara way, which I doubt it will happen. I really want this arc to be an arc where all will be involved & not just Naruto and Sasuke.

Lorde
21st September 2014, 7:45 PM
I think that Sasuke wanting to be Hokage is a good character development for him. Bad guy turns into being protective and wanting to change the world into a better place is not so bad as people believe its going to be. Its only bad if he intend to go the Madara way, which I doubt it will happen. I really want this arc to be an arc where all will be involved & not just Naruto and Sasuke.

How is Sasuke's new desire a good thing when he's made it very clear that he wants to murder the Gokage? I mean why would anyone in Konoha want Sasuke as their leader if he were to kill the previous Hokage? How are Tsunade and the other Kage at fault to begin with?

Nodame
21st September 2014, 9:32 PM
How is Sasuke's new desire a good thing when he's made it very clear that he wants to murder the Gokage? I mean why would anyone in Konoha want Sasuke as their leader if he were to kill the previous Hokage? How are Tsunade and the other Kage at fault to begin with?

Omg I swear that I completely forgot about what he said about killing the Hokages. I take back my words lulz :x (don't bite me)

Platinum fan.
21st September 2014, 9:42 PM
The issues I have with Sasuke as Hokage is it's not believable at all with how it's been done. This is the same creep who betrayed his teammates, left Konoha for their arch enemy who invaded the village and killed the 3rd Hokage, then swore to kill every man women and child in Konoha with his own hands, and now he wants to be Hokage by killing the other Gokage after they all united to defeat a common enemy and even became allies. Sasuke killing them would take the ninja world back to square one. He abuses his own teammates like Karin and leaves them for dead like Suigetsu and Jugo, and shows no remorse for any of the crimes he's committed. Not a single one. And this guy is worthy of being Hokage? Get out of town with that.

I've said this numerous times now, Sasuke would be a Danzo style Hokage in that he would sacrifice others to remain in power. It's one thing if Sasuke was changing his ways and wanted to be a better person like Gaara. But he's the same disrespectful guy he's been all part 2.

Nodame
21st September 2014, 10:14 PM
I feel stupid forgetting that..

I had faith in Sasuke hoping he'll turn like Gaara, but no. His intentions of "revolutionize" the shinobi world by removing all previous Hokages and the bijuu is too much. Like he wants to kill the Hokages so that... He can change the system? Cold blooded indeed... No heart. There is no exuses.

Makes you wonder where the time-skip will go after this, as at least Naruto survives. As far as the kages are concerned we know at least Gaara will survive, but what about the rest? Will Tsunade get killed off after all and Kakashi take her place? so many questions.

Lorde
21st September 2014, 11:17 PM
I've said this numerous times now, Sasuke would be a Danzo style Hokage in that he would sacrifice others to remain in power. It's one thing if Sasuke was changing his ways and wanted to be a better person like Gaara. But he's the same disrespectful guy he's been all part 2.

I agree although personally, I didn't see Danzo as that much of a bad guy. He was certainly greedy and wanted power, but he at least loved the village deep down and tried to kill Sasuke to protect it. He wasn't nearly as delusional as Sasuke has been lately.

pwnswitchclik
22nd September 2014, 12:33 AM
From the way Kishimoto has been pulling things out of nowhere, I bet there will be a part in which Orochimaru will somehow, unrealistically escape from the IT and take over Sasuke's body, already weakened from his battle with Naruto, and accept the Infinite Tsukuiyomi plan as his own.

Akashin
22nd September 2014, 2:04 AM
From the way Kishimoto has been pulling things out of nowhere, I bet there will be a part in which Orochimaru will somehow, unrealistically escape from the IT and take over Sasuke's body, already weakened from his battle with Naruto, and accept the Infinite Tsukuiyomi plan as his own.

Orochimaru planning to take another swing at getting Sasuke's body I could see (though I doubt he'd be capable of winning over even a weakened Sasuke now, if pre-Mangekyo Sasuke was already too much for him), but him taking over the IT plan makes absolutely no sense. I think it's safe to say there's no worry of this happening.

pwnswitchclik
22nd September 2014, 8:31 PM
Orochimaru planning to take another swing at getting Sasuke's body I could see (though I doubt he'd be capable of winning over even a weakened Sasuke now, if pre-Mangekyo Sasuke was already too much for him), but him taking over the IT plan makes absolutely no sense. I think it's safe to say there's no worry of this happening.

Well, Orochimaru gained access to Hashirama's DNA when he "absorbed" White Zetsu, he might use that as a power up of sorts or a tool to get to Sasuke.

patrickab7
23rd September 2014, 5:36 PM
The preview images for the last movie indicate that Sasuke's still alive, for whatever that's worth.

Red and Blue
23rd September 2014, 6:24 PM
Well, Orochimaru gained access to Hashirama's DNA when he "absorbed" White Zetsu, he might use that as a power up of sorts or a tool to get to Sasuke.

Whatever power he gained from that White Zetsu wouldn't be enough to get to Sasuke. Sasuke does afterall have the power of the freaking Sage.

Mr. Reloaded
23rd September 2014, 6:25 PM
I agree although personally, I didn't see Danzo as that much of a bad guy. He was certainly greedy and wanted power, but he at least loved the village deep down and tried to kill Sasuke to protect it. He wasn't nearly as delusional as Sasuke has been lately.

Danzo was just as bad if you ask me.

Akashin
23rd September 2014, 6:54 PM
Well, Orochimaru gained access to Hashirama's DNA when he "absorbed" White Zetsu, he might use that as a power up of sorts or a tool to get to Sasuke.

I admittedly forgot about this, but I doubt it'd be enough. There's still a world of difference between how strong Sasuke was the first time Orochimaru tried and how he is now, and Orochimaru failed miserably back then.

Also, keep in mind that the Living Corpse Reincarnation isn't something that can be augmented by Orochimaru getting stronger; it's a mental attack that the Sharingan is apparently naturally capable of trumping. Even a weakened Sasuke should have no trouble fighting such a thing off with the EMS.


Danzo was just as bad if you ask me.

This. I don't get the logic that Danzo was better; both he and Sasuke are willing to go to horrific lengths for their otherwise good-intended goals.

Lorde
23rd September 2014, 7:45 PM
Danzo was just as bad if you ask me.

I don't recall Danzo planning to murder the other Kage or the Bijuu or anything as devastating to the shinobi world. He was selfish and had his own schemes for power in Konoha, but his plans weren't as insane as Sasuke's in my opinion.

-Raiga-
23rd September 2014, 8:00 PM
This. I don't get the logic that Danzo was better; both he and Sasuke are willing to go to horrific lengths for their otherwise good-intended goals.

The difference is that Danzo is a guy who understood what he did was evil, and he was fine being the scum of Konoha so long as he could protect it. Sasuke's logic on the other hand comes off as a whiny teenager who doesn't really understand the implications of his actions.

Not to mention, despite the series marginalizing the difference between life and death, I'd like to think that Danzo is a helluva lot less evil for wanting to kill a select few enemies, than Sasuke wanting to destroy the whole village(or world, or whatever the hell Sasuke's randomly changing goal is).

Platinum fan.
23rd September 2014, 8:19 PM
The difference is that Danzo is a guy who understood what he did was evil, and he was fine being the scum of Konoha so long as he could protect it. Sasuke's logic on the other hand comes off as a whiny teenager who doesn't really understand the implications of his actions.

Not to mention, despite the series marginalizing the difference between life and death, I'd like to think that Danzo is a helluva lot less evil for wanting to kill a select few enemies, than Sasuke wanting to destroy the whole village(or world, or whatever the hell Sasuke's randomly changing goal is).

I was getting ready to reply but you beat me to it. Good post, Raiga.

In his own way, Danzo did care for Konoha. He didn't care how bad he acted, he would do what he believed was necessary for the survival of the Shinobi world as he said during the Gokage meeting when he manipulated Mifune. Danzo's overall actions in the series were deplorable, but I understood why he did them. Unlike Sasuke, I do think he cared for the survival of the shinobi world. He's shady but everything he did was to ensure the survival of the shinobi world, and he was willing to sacrifice others for it. Sasuke seems to want to kill everyone and then hit the reset button with his "What can be destroyed can be rebuilt" attitude.

Akashin
23rd September 2014, 8:28 PM
I don't recall Danzo planning to murder the other Kage or the Bijuu or anything as devastating to the shinobi world. He was selfish and had his own schemes for power in Konoha, but his plans weren't as insane as Sasuke's in my opinion.

Neither do I. What I do recall, however, is Danzo manipulating Nono into killing Kabuto simply because their potential danger had outweighed their usefulness. To say nothing of him outright abandoning Konoha during Pain's invasion solely in the hopes that Pain would kill Tsunade and allow him to take over. And while there was a bit more method to some of his other bits of madness (working with Hanzo to deal with Akatsuki; trying to keep Naruto from coming back to fight Pain, etc.), that doesn't really make them any less questionable.

I don't see how any of that is any less questionable than Sasuke wanting to wipe the slate clean on the Elemental Nations.


The difference is that Danzo is a guy who understood what he did was evil, and he was fine being the scum of Konoha so long as he could protect it. Sasuke's logic on the other hand comes off as a whiny teenager who doesn't really understand the implications of his actions.

Not to mention, despite the series marginalizing the difference between life and death, I'd like to think that Danzo is a helluva lot less evil for wanting to kill a select few enemies, than Sasuke wanting to destroy the whole village(or world, or whatever the hell Sasuke's randomly changing goal is).

I haven't seen any hint that Sasuke believes he's doing a good thing; just that he's willing to do evil for good's sake. That said, I do agree that Danzo had a greater grasp on what sort of person he was, but I don't see why it matters. At the end of the day they're still cut from the same cloth.


I was getting ready to reply but you beat me to it. Good post, Raiga.

In his own way, Danzo did care for Konoha. He didn't care how bad he acted, he would do what he believed was necessary for the survival of the Shinobi world as he said during the Gokage meeting when he manipulated Mifune. Danzo's overall actions in the series were deplorable, but I understood why he did them. Unlike Sasuke, I do think he cared for the survival of the shinobi world. He's shady but everything he did was to ensure the survival of the shinobi world, and he was willing to sacrifice others for it. Sasuke seems to want to kill everyone and then hit the reset button with his "What can be destroyed can be rebuilt" attitude.

Err, where was it said that he wants to kill everybody? Unless I missed something, it's just the Gokage (relics of a past he wants to do away with, as it were) and Naruto (his most significant, if not only, roadblock).

Sasuke's definitely not in the right, but I don't get the notion that he's any more indiscriminately evil than Danzo. They both have good intentions behind their madness.

Platinum fan.
23rd September 2014, 8:35 PM
Neither do I. What I do recall, however, is Danzo manipulating Nono into killing Kabuto because why not. To say nothing of him outright abandoning Konoha during Pain's invasion solely in the hopes that Pain would kill Tsunade and allow him to take over. And while there was a bit more method to some of his other bits of madness (working with Hanzo to deal with Akatsuki; trying to keep Naruto from coming back to fight Pain, etc.), that doesn't really make them any less questionable.

I don't see how any of that is any less questionable than Sasuke wanting to wipe the slate clean on the Elemental Nations.



I haven't seen any hint that Sasuke believes he's doing a good thing; just that he's willing to do evil for good's sake. That said, I do agree that Danzo had a greater grasp on what sort of person he was, but I don't see why it matters. At the end of the day they're still cut from the same cloth.



Err, where was it said that he wants to kill everybody? Unless I missed something, it's just the Gokage (relics of a past he wants to do away with, as it were) and Naruto (his most significant, if not only, roadblock).

Sasuke's definitely not in the right, but I don't get the notion that he's any more indiscriminately evil than Danzo. They both have good intentions behind their madness.

Danzo did say that with Tsunade protecting the village the casualties in Konoha during Pain's invasion would be small, so it's not like he fully left them to die. Was Danzo hoping for Tsunade to die? I don't think he ever outright said that. Him not allowing Naruto to come back was so the Akatsuki could not get Kyuubi and therefore complete their task. That wasn't evil exactly. It's just he was trying to keep the power of Kyuubi away from the real bad guys and since Naruto's never talk no justu'd Danzo, he wasn't a "Naruto Believer"

Again, Danzo's actions are deplorable, but not as bad as Sasuke's genocide quest.

Akashin
23rd September 2014, 8:59 PM
Danzo did say that with Tsunade protecting the village the casualties in Konoha during Pain's invasion would be small, so it's not like he fully left them to die. Was Danzo hoping for Tsunade to die? I don't think he ever outright said that. Him not allowing Naruto to come back was so the Akatsuki could not get Kyuubi and therefore complete their task. That wasn't evil exactly. It's just he was trying to keep the power of Kyuubi away from the real bad guys and since Naruto's never talk no justu'd Danzo, he wasn't a "Naruto Believer"

Again, Danzo's actions are deplorable, but not as bad as Sasuke's genocide quest.

He didn't word for word say that he intended for Tsunade to die, but that certainly seemed to be what he meant (http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/8/46-424.0/compressed/naruto_424_sleepyfans.03.jpg). Granted on him blocking Naruto though; that wasn't strictly evil.

You also still haven't pointed out where it was said that what Sasuke wants now is genocide.

Lorde
23rd September 2014, 9:30 PM
Neither do I. What I do recall, however, is Danzo manipulating Nono into killing Kabuto simply because their potential danger had outweighed their usefulness. To say nothing of him outright abandoning Konoha during Pain's invasion solely in the hopes that Pain would kill Tsunade and allow him to take over. And while there was a bit more method to some of his other bits of madness (working with Hanzo to deal with Akatsuki; trying to keep Naruto from coming back to fight Pain, etc.), that doesn't really make them any less questionable.

I felt that he simply wanted what was best for Konoha and took risks to protect it at the cost of several lives, which was still bad of course, but more understandable than what Sasuke's doing imo. I don't think Sasuke really cares for Konoha; it feels like he's still trying to get revenge against the village by planning to change it for the worst rather than by destroying it completely like he previously planned.

Pokegirl Fan~
23rd September 2014, 9:36 PM
I felt that he simply wanted what was best for Konoha and took risks to protect it at the cost of several lives, which was still bad of course, but more understandable than what Sasuke's doing imo. I don't think Sasuke really cares for Konoha; it feels like he's still trying to get revenge against the village by planning to change it for the worst rather than by destroying it completely like he previously planned.

I think Sasuke cares about Konoha now tbh, I just think he's going about it the wrong way. There's no doubt that he'll most likely get talked out of doing what he's about to do now by Naruto and will probably rethink of the way he want to reform the ninja world.

Platinum fan.
23rd September 2014, 10:11 PM
He didn't word for word say that he intended for Tsunade to die, but that certainly seemed to be what he meant (http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/8/46-424.0/compressed/naruto_424_sleepyfans.03.jpg). Granted on him blocking Naruto though; that wasn't strictly evil.

You also still haven't pointed out where it was said that what Sasuke wants now is genocide.

Sasuke wanted to kill everyone in Konoha. And pretty much most of Konoha didn't even know what was going on with the Uchihas and Sasuke wanted to kill them anyway. Seems like a mass Genocide to me. That was before he wanted to Hokage. Now he wants to kill the Gokage for whatever reason and with his whole "rebuilding" attitude I'm willing to bet he'll kill anyone who stands against him, like Naruto. Sasuke doesn't care about the current world. Nothing proves that he does. He's betrayed everyone who actually gave a crap about him. He's a lowlife and his actions should not be rewarded by becoming Hokage.

Akashin
23rd September 2014, 10:49 PM
I felt that he simply wanted what was best for Konoha and took risks to protect it at the cost of several lives, which was still bad of course, but more understandable than what Sasuke's doing imo. I don't think Sasuke really cares for Konoha; it feels like he's still trying to get revenge against the village by planning to change it for the worst rather than by destroying it completely like he previously planned.

I'm... not sure where you got that impression from. I'm reasonably certain that he still holds some ill will toward the village that ruined him and his Clan, but that's why he wants to carry out this revolution; to strong-arm the world into a place where that sort of thing can't happen again.

I agree about your assessment of Danzo, but I don't see how that differs from Sasuke wanting the best (or at least what he perceives to be the best) for the Elemental Nations and being willing to be the villain to do so.


Sasuke wanted to kill everyone in Konoha. And pretty much most of Konoha didn't even know what was going on with the Uchihas and Sasuke wanted to kill them anyway. Seems like a mass Genocide to me. That was before he wanted to Hokage. Now he wants to kill the Gokage for whatever reason and with his whole "rebuilding" attitude I'm willing to bet he'll kill anyone who stands against him, like Naruto. Sasuke doesn't care about the current world. Nothing proves that he does. He's betrayed everyone who actually gave a crap about him. He's a lowlife and his actions should not be rewarded by becoming Hokage.

I asked for an indication that he still wants genocide; I'm well aware that was what he wanted back before he cleared the air with Itachi, but I'm not talking about nor defending his character at that point. And even if he were willing to kill anybody that stands against him (he's singling out Naruto right now, but the potential for him to be willing to go that far is definitely there), that's still not a mass genocide.

As for the rest of your post, I'd argue that he most definitely does care about the current world; enough so to want to correct it, at any rate. Agreed that he's a lowlife and has no place being Hokage or even a leader of anything (except his own broken down and non-existent Clan, anyway), though.

Void Ventus
24th September 2014, 1:23 AM
Minato confirmed to be in The Last (https://mobile.twitter.com/naruto_movie/status/514224967341195266)

The movie is confirmed canon, so what the heck is Kishi's reasoning for keeping him alive?