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MidnightMelody
17th April 2009, 12:14 PM
What if Nagato's parents were never killed?

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
17th April 2009, 1:28 PM
This was an unusually interesting chapter....still think Naruto should just kill Pain...he'd be so easy now, and Naruto could probably overwhelm Konan long enough for him to pick on the weak guy til he's dead.

Firekit
17th April 2009, 1:57 PM
Naruto's dad is the 4th hokage.

electivire165
17th April 2009, 2:20 PM
thats been known for a while,i dont think naruto will kill nagato, i think he will try to "turn him good" and take pity on him, but hey i could be completely wrong.

Horoika1
17th April 2009, 3:29 PM
Naruto's dad is the 4th hokage.

No kidding? Lol.

Anyway, I wonder what's Naruto's answer? It won't be right, unless Kishi is some great philosopher and has discovered the way to bring peace >.>

Atoyont
17th April 2009, 3:40 PM
It'll be right for Naruto's world.

Yeah this chapter could have had more backstory. Kinda sucks for Nagato though, his parents were killed and they weren't even shinobi. Oddly enough, their kid has the same power that the founder of the Ninja World had.

uber gon
17th April 2009, 5:44 PM
It'll be right for Naruto's world.

Yeah this chapter could have had more backstory. Kinda sucks for Nagato though, his parents were killed and they weren't even shinobi. Oddly enough, their kid has the same power that the founder of the Ninja World had.

Maybe it's a Kekkai Genkai. That, or something like One Piece's Haki where users are randomly chosen or something.

MarshtompMan
17th April 2009, 5:56 PM
Naruto's dad is the 4th hokage.

Yeah right.
How can that be even possible?!

Stabberz
17th April 2009, 7:33 PM
very lame chapter, I think Naruto should just kill Nagato and get it over with, but I guess Kishi will end up with Naruto keeping him alive.

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
17th April 2009, 10:32 PM
Naruto's dad is the 4th hokage.

WRONG!
It was recently revealed that Minato Namikaze was actually Naruto's older brother, Naruto's father is actually Nagato, or Pain as he is more commonly known. Also, the true leader of Akatsuki is Zetsu.

Srsly, we all know who Naruto's Daddy is silly =3

But srsly...I think this chapter needed less of Nagato saying '...' and more backstory.

TsukiMirage
17th April 2009, 10:47 PM
It'll be right for Naruto's world.

Yeah this chapter could have had more backstory. Kinda sucks for Nagato though, his parents were killed and they weren't even shinobi. Oddly enough, their kid has the same power that the founder of the Ninja World had.
The Rinnegan can probably skips generations, So his parent wouldn't have it.
Similar to Haku's Bloodline Limit.

uber gon
17th April 2009, 11:07 PM
The Rinnegan can probably skips generations, So his parent wouldn't have it.
Similar to Haku's Bloodline Limit.

That, or maybe it occurs randomly or something.

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
17th April 2009, 11:19 PM
I was thinking just now about Pain's ideology of bringing about peace by making everyone understand pain, and I have to say, I can see how it would work.

Take me, about two years ago I was a selfish, stingy person, but after having a horrible year of seeing my mother almost die every fortnight and wanting to help her but knowing I couldn't do anything, it made me more willing to help people whenever I can. Using this philosophy, Pain's theory could actually be correct - uniting people through pain could work.

Shadow Lucario
17th April 2009, 11:38 PM
I wasn't comparing the nature manipulation with Flying Thunder God, i was just comparing there difficulty level (in technique terms). So if we take the difficulty level of the jutsu in account wouldn't it be understandable that if Naruto can learn Shadow Clone & Multiple Shadow Clone jutsu, a A-rank jutsu like Rasengan & create a S-rank jutsu like RasenShuriken & also learn a very difficult art of gathering Nature Chakra to its perfect state (which i think is also an S-rank or higher level technique). Wouldn't he be atleast able to use the concept of Flying Thunder God which is an S-rank jutsu itself (as all the useful technique's he have learned till now are all high rank jutsu's).

Even so, since Sasuke can manipulate Nature Chakra he would be able to use it by your logic. All the techniques Sasuke has learned have been high rank Jutsus. Sasuke learned Great Fireball Technique, which is a C-Rank technique, when he was seven years old. Not only that but he mastered Chidori in a month, made many variations out of it, mastered Sharingan, acquired Mangekyou, learned how to put out Amaterasu, which is said to burn for seven days, and mastered Summoning Jutsu.

By your logic Sasuke should have no problem learning Flying Thunder God.




Also do we really know that Flying Thunder God was way past Kakashi's level (after seeing him use Kamui which requires alot of chakra). It might be that Minato never taught Kakashi how to do it as you said (since some ninja's like to keep some skills unique to themselves until they die but seems less likely as Kakashi has shown to have quite a lot of konwledge about this jutsu) or else Kakashi might have really not been able to do that at the moment when Minato though him that as Kakashi didn't have the required knowledge about Space\Time Jutsu at that time or else he wasn't adaptable to a jutsu like that (while not being past his level).

We have seen Kakashi perform every Jutsu that is not a Kekkai Genkai he has seen with his Sharingan with ease. I'm sure he saw Minato perform the Flying Thunder God on more than one occasion after Obito's death and before he died.




Also Chidori isn't a simple nature manipulated jutsu, if it was it wouldn't have been a A-rank (assassination) jutsu. As to why Sasuke learned it & can use it with ease & create other versions of it, well he has the Sharingan doesn't he & also he was the student of a Sannin wasn't he.

Chidori is a much easier Jutsu to learn because all it is is Nature, no shape. That is why it would be easier to use Chidori Sharp Spear as opposed to RasenShuriken. With Chidori Sharp Spear all you have to do is add shape while to perform RasenShuriken you have to add Nature which has been stated to be more difficult.


As for Sasuke being able to use Flying Thunder God, well he doesn't know how that jutsu works for start.

Just contradicted yourself. Naruto doesn't know how it works so therefore he cannot learn it.



But if he knew about it, i expect him to able to do it to. Not because of his ability to do nature manipulation but because of his eyes. If you remember correctly Sasuke used a Space/Time jutsu to escape the blast of Deidara's Jutsu.

Sasuke used Summoning to escape, not a Space/Time Ninjutsu. He summoned Manda and hypnotized him to let him crawl inside him to escape the explosion.


Well i don't think people who know about these scroll would just go around telling every one about it. Only when the time comes would anyone tell him about it.

I'm pretty sure Pain's invasion would have been a good time, or before he left for Myobokuzan.


Yes, you are right that Naruto doesn't need to be the one to defeat Madara, but he still might have to face him in some way or another because after all he is the Nine-Tails host which used to be Madara's pet & most powerful weapon (in my previous post i never said that Naruto would defeat Madara, i just said he would have to fight him, the result of there battle as far as i know is unpredictable).

The fox was never his pet or weapon. Shodaime Hokage controlled the tail beasts and gave them to other nations so one wouldn't get angry


Also as Minato's image had said in ch 440 to Naruto that the ninja which was controling the 9-tails from the shadows was a very powerful ninja & one has to have a very unique set of abilities to fight him. He also said that that person would attack Konoha again & that is one of the reasons he sealed the 9-tails in Naruto because he believed that Naruto would be able to use its power to protect Konoha. This clearly points that Naruto would have to face Madara (as much as i understand by reading it). So Naruto learning Flying Thunder God or create a similar jutsu like it to fight Madara (not defeat him) would be a necessary for him (as it is one of those unique skills which would be required for him to fight Madara).

Yondaime Hokage said that without a special power there would be no way to fight him. When he said this he was referring to the fox's Chakra. There would be no need for him to learn the Flying Thunder God. Sasuke could even be the one to fight Madara seeing as he now has Mangekyou which is an extremely special power. Not only that, but I can see Killer Bee fighting Madara, seeing that he can control his Bijuu.

TsukiMirage
18th April 2009, 12:36 AM
Just a note: Summoning jutsu is a space/time type of jutsu.

Horoika1
18th April 2009, 2:52 AM
Yeah, I hadn't thought of that. The philosopher will work for Naruto's world.

Blaziryu
18th April 2009, 3:40 AM
This week's chapter was wack!! Nagato/Pain's flashback better be fu$&kin interesting in the next chapter.

ClearMetalVoltar
18th April 2009, 4:28 AM
well we did get to see a sneek peek of kyuubi sage naruto,which will kick butt later on in the series. looks like we finally saw how his parents were killed by the ruthless konoha ninjas. next weeks chapter should be great, becuase we will finally find out how yahiko died and how they became part of atkatsuki

Kamex
18th April 2009, 5:32 AM
very lame chapter, I think Naruto should just kill Nagato and get it over with, but I guess Kishi will end up with Naruto keeping him alive.
And you think Naruto just killing Nagato quickly in one chapter all anticlimactically wouldn't be lame? I don't know why people always want everything to happen so fast, I for one like to sit back and enjoy the story unfold, one step at a time, with character and story development.

I'm glad I can watch Naruto grow... remember how the whole manga started? Naruto was a young, no-talent prankster with little ninja skill and no mastery or even knowledge of the beast within him. The only thing that connected him to what he's become today is his dream of becoming Hokage. He's getting closer very quickly, and this dilemma of wanting to kill one of the greatest enemies of Konoha in a long while (who, by the way, seems to have caused Naruto to become somewhat of an avenger, like Sasuke is spending all of Part II being) yet at the same time wanting to forgive a man who has somehow similar goals is just another obstacle on his way to becoming Hokage, the main point of this story.

I'm just saying simply seeing action and people doing what you think they should do when you think they should do it (usually ASAP...) isn't always a good thing, IMO. In any case, I happen to like flashback/informative chapters, because they make the characters more fleshed out not to mention those kinds of chapters are captivating to me...

That said, I don't think this flashback chapter (or the part of it that was a flashback) was one of the more interesting ones, especially for a character like Nagato. I have mixed feelings about how his parents died... on one hand, it's kind of lame that his story of pain was almost kind of random, what with how his parents weren't shinobi and they just happened to be killed sort of for nothing and they were Konoha ninjas too (I mean the killers were)... yet on the other hand I admit it was pretty unique. Interesting how one of the greatest villains of the story probably never would have become a ninja had circumstances just been a little different.

Anyway, since I'm pretty sure the second source of pain will involve Yahiko, I can't wait to see how that unfolded. Perhaps we'll also see how Nagato (or Pain, I suppose) gathered supporters and single-handedly defeated Hanzou and took over the country... if they get that far in the flashback. Well, what I really want to see is Nagato's late teen/young adult stage, the way it was when he was in good shape (assuming it took him until that point to become... what he is now... I guess it all depends on when Yahiko died).

One last thing... something else I used to wonder is whether Yahiko had ever had the same idealistic (or maybe realistic, depending on how you look at it) yet twisted goals that Nagato, Konan and in turn the rest of Akatsuki had. I mean, Yahiko could have easily died before they went all crazy... although unless Deva Pain's body was still growing after Yahiko died, it would have had to happen in what I believe is a small interval of time between the age of Yahiko's body as Pain and the time when Akatsuki was formed (that is, in order for Yahiko to have had nothing to do with those ideals...). Of course, that brings up the issue of whether Yahiko was actually a part of those ambitious ideals before he died or not... which may have something to do with how he died...

...okay, I'm done rambling. o_o;

Shadow Lucario
18th April 2009, 6:55 AM
although unless Deva Pain's body was still growing after Yahiko died

A dead body can't age so Yahiko is estimated to have died around 25-30.

I agree with you completely though. I like flashbacks because it gives us insight on certain characters. If it was never said and we never had the flashback, a lot of people would think Neji was Hinata's brother and son of Hiashi Hyuga.


Just a note: Summoning jutsu is a space/time type of jutsu.

I have not seen this stated anywhere. If this is true tell me where it states this. Otherwise I say you are wrong.

Horoika1
18th April 2009, 2:59 PM
I really like the chapters-to-come. Very informative.

I will assume that whoever said "just have Naruto kill Nagato already" is a child, around 11-13 years of age. Such impatience!

The Red
18th April 2009, 5:18 PM
I can't help but wonder how Naruto will justify himself if he does end up killing Nagato.

Lucario At Service
18th April 2009, 5:46 PM
Even so, since Sasuke can manipulate Nature Chakra he would be able to use it by your logic. All the techniques Sasuke has learned have been high rank Jutsus. Sasuke learned Great Fireball Technique, which is a C-Rank technique, when he was seven years old. Not only that but he mastered Chidori in a month, made many variations out of it, mastered Sharingan, acquired Mangekyou, learned how to put out Amaterasu, which is said to burn for seven days, and mastered Summoning Jutsu.

By your logic Sasuke should have no problem learning Flying Thunder God.
For start, how many times i have to tell that i was not comparing manipulation of Nature Chakra with being able to do a jutsu. I was only taking there difficulty level in account thats all.
As for Sasuke learning Great Fireball Technique, it was considered to be a special technique of the Uchiha clan which marked as "coming of age". So in a way that technique becomes a common technique for him & cannot be considered as a special one as every 6-7 year old Uchiha could use it (if you compare it with someone who is not from Uchiha clan for him it might be difficult & a C-rank jutsu but for an Uchiha it would be a E-rank jutsu not an C-rank).
If you take the account that Sasuke learned Lightning Nature Manipulation & Chidori in a month. Naruto learned Wind Nature Manipulation & Rasenshuriken in around a week time (he learned nature manipulation in about two days).
Also the reason Sasuke was able to perform & learn so many things was because of his Sharingan.
Also it wasn't Sasuke doing that he acquired the Mangekyou but it was all because of Itachi's planning. And also the power to stop Amaterasu is not developed by Sasuke but was a ability of his Mangekyou, so it can't be considered here aswell.
At last, yes Sasuke can learn Flying Thunder God if he can know its appilications & with his Sharingan's help. But its not because of my logic. Its just because he has the ability to do it just like Naruto has. But tell me would it be ok in someone other than Naruto learns the technique of his father Minato which made him a feared ememy among his opponents. I don't think it would look good.

We have seen Kakashi perform every Jutsu that is not a Kekkai Genkai he has seen with his Sharingan with ease. I'm sure he saw Minato perform the Flying Thunder God on more than one occasion after Obito's death and before he died.
Yes we have seen Kakashi perform every jutsu that is not a Kekkai Genkai with ease because of his Sharingan but i don't think that he had been able to copy any jutsu which doesn't use hand seals like Rasengan (i am sure that Kakashi has learned it from Minato & not copied it with Sharingan because if that would have been the case then even Sasuke should have been able to use that as he has seen it when he fought Naruto & also its power which is much more than Chidori & also Kakashi has said that he created Chidori because he failed in the attempt of adding his nature chakra to his Rasengan in ch 321). As we have seen that Flying Thunder God didn't use an hand seals, it might be the cause that Kakashi has not been able to learn it (which i think is more because of his adaptibility problem but not because it is past his abilities) though the Sharingan might have helped him in its application. Also it is even possible that Kakashi's Kamui jutsu is actually based on the principal of Flying Thunder God.

Chidori is a much easier Jutsu to learn because all it is is Nature, no shape. That is why it would be easier to use Chidori Sharp Spear as opposed to RasenShuriken. With Chidori Sharp Spear all you have to do is add shape while to perform RasenShuriken you have to add Nature which has been stated to be more difficult.
Yes i agree that Chidori is far easier technique than RasenShuriken but if one applies the method in which Naruto created RasenShuriken, i think anyone else might be able to create it (but they should have a very high level of chakra to do it though). Take the example of Rasengan, everyone before Naruto had used the technique using one hand (& might have learned it that way aswell). But Naruto's method of using the technique with the help of a Shadow Clone has made the technique a lot easier to learn than before. This is proved by Konohamaru being able to use Rasengan as well though the power level is far less than Naruto, Jiraiya or Kakashi's, but still he was able to apply the method of Naruto to use it.

Just contradicted yourself. Naruto doesn't know how it works so therefore he cannot learn it.
Well Naruto didn't know how to use Rasengan before the Tsunade arc was it. But still he was able to learn it during that arc, so why not Flying Thunder God.

Sasuke used Summoning to escape, not a Space/Time Ninjutsu. He summoned Manda and hypnotized him to let him crawl inside him to escape the explosion.
Summoning technique's are a type of Space/Time ninjutsu. If you want proof read chapter 92 & 363, you should get the required proof in those chapters.

I'm pretty sure Pain's invasion would have been a good time, or before he left for Myobokuzan.
Yes it would have been a good time, but wasn't the focus at that time the Sage Arts. So why would Kishi bring in another high level jutsu training in between another one. If i am right, it would get its own training panels/chapters like Naruto's Nature Manipulation training & Sage Art training was. And also to fight Pain/Nagato he needed the Sage arts but to fight Madara he would need not only Sage arts but more things aswell.

The fox was never his pet or weapon. Shodaime Hokage controlled the tail beasts and gave them to other nations so one wouldn't get angry
The first Hokage never had all the tailed beast under him (though he had the maximum amount of them for a single person). Also did you ever read in the whole manga that the First Hokage was in control of the 9-tails. If you re-read the whole manga you will see that the only ones who were able to totally control the 9-tails were the Uchiha's & the one who used it most was Madara (Tell me did you forget the talk between Jiraiya & that Scroll frog in ch 370 & also the two page spread of the fight between the first Hokage & Madara in ch 399).

Yondaime Hokage said that without a special power there would be no way to fight him. When he said this he was referring to the fox's Chakra. There would be no need for him to learn the Flying Thunder God. Sasuke could even be the one to fight Madara seeing as he now has Mangekyou which is an extremely special power. Not only that, but I can see Killer Bee fighting Madara, seeing that he can control his Bijuu.
He actually said that you need a unique set of abilities to fight that man & Minato sealed Kyuubi inside Naruto so that he could master those required unique abilities as for some to learn those unique abilities one would need a high amount of power.
But what were those unique abilities was not mentioned at all. It is according to me that one of those unique ability might be related to the Flying Thunder God technique.
Well what ever you say, i am sure that Naruto would have to fight Madara in the future after the talk he had with Minato in ch 440. Though who would be the one to defeat Madara i am not sure. If Kishi has planned Madara as the last major villan of the manga then it is most likely possible that Naruto or a combination of Naruto, Sasuke & some other people would be the one to defeat him. But if a villan in the manga appears who is at a much higher level than Madara then the possiblities changes.
As for Killer Bee fight Madara, i can clearly see Killer Bee lose Madara because we haven't seen what actually Madara is capable of now (but we have seen Killer Bee's capabilities). Also if you take the power of Madara when he fought the first hokage into account & Killer Bee's power when he fought you can see that Madara over powers him by a long margin but what is the power level of the present Madara is unknown but still he would easily beat Killer Bee. About Sasuke, i can't say but at present power level i think he would lose to Madara..

MarshtompMan
18th April 2009, 5:50 PM
very lame chapter, I think Naruto should just kill Nagato and get it over with, but I guess Kishi will end up with Naruto keeping him alive.


This week's chapter was wack!! Nagato/Pain's flashback better be fu$&kin interesting in the next chapter.

Idiots.

Anyway, I think that Yahiko might have been a member of Akatsuki before he died.
But I don't understand that if there used to be 10 members, how come Zetsu has never had a partner?
It was shown that he knew Orochimaru, so he had to be a member when Oro was.
And I really want him to have some backstory.
Whenever we see him, he's either at a meeting or coming halfway out of the ground to see a battle or report on a battle.
We don't really know anything about him.

Shadow Lucario
18th April 2009, 8:47 PM
For start, how many times i have to tell that i was not comparing manipulation of Nature Chakra with being able to do a jutsu. I was only taking there difficulty level in account thats all.
As for Sasuke learning Great Fireball Technique, it was considered to be a special technique of the Uchiha clan which marked as "coming of age". So in a way that technique becomes a common technique for him & cannot be considered as a special one as every 6-7 year old Uchiha could use it (if you compare it with someone who is not from Uchiha clan for him it might be difficult & a C-rank jutsu but for an Uchiha it would be a E-rank jutsu not an C-rank).
If you take the account that Sasuke learned Lightning Nature Manipulation & Chidori in a month. Naruto learned Wind Nature Manipulation & Rasenshuriken in around a week time (he learned nature manipulation in about two days).
Also the reason Sasuke was able to perform & learn so many things was because of his Sharingan.
Also it wasn't Sasuke doing that he acquired the Mangekyou but it was all because of Itachi's planning. And also the power to stop Amaterasu is not developed by Sasuke but was a ability of his Mangekyou, so it can't be considered here aswell.
At last, yes Sasuke can learn Flying Thunder God if he can know its appilications & with his Sharingan's help. But its not because of my logic. Its just because he has the ability to do it just like Naruto has. But tell me would it be ok in someone other than Naruto learns the technique of his father Minato which made him a feared ememy among his opponents. I don't think it would look good.

Yes we have seen Kakashi perform every jutsu that is not a Kekkai Genkai with ease because of his Sharingan but i don't think that he had been able to copy any jutsu which doesn't use hand seals like Rasengan (i am sure that Kakashi has learned it from Minato & not copied it with Sharingan because if that would have been the case then even Sasuke should have been able to use that as he has seen it when he fought Naruto & also its power which is much more than Chidori & also Kakashi has said that he created Chidori because he failed in the attempt of adding his nature chakra to his Rasengan in ch 321). As we have seen that Flying Thunder God didn't use an hand seals, it might be the cause that Kakashi has not been able to learn it (which i think is more because of his adaptibility problem but not because it is past his abilities) though the Sharingan might have helped him in its application. Also it is even possible that Kakashi's Kamui jutsu is actually based on the principal of Flying Thunder God.

Yes i agree that Chidori is far easier technique than RasenShuriken but if one applies the method in which Naruto created RasenShuriken, i think anyone else might be able to create it (but they should have a very high level of chakra to do it though). Take the example of Rasengan, everyone before Naruto had used the technique using one hand (& might have learned it that way aswell). But Naruto's method of using the technique with the help of a Shadow Clone has made the technique a lot easier to learn than before. This is proved by Konohamaru being able to use Rasengan as well though the power level is far less than Naruto, Jiraiya or Kakashi's, but still he was able to apply the method of Naruto to use it.

Well Naruto didn't know how to use Rasengan before the Tsunade arc was it. But still he was able to learn it during that arc, so why not Flying Thunder God.

Summoning technique's are a type of Space/Time ninjutsu. If you want proof read chapter 92 & 363, you should get the required proof in those chapters.

Yes it would have been a good time, but wasn't the focus at that time the Sage Arts. So why would Kishi bring in another high level jutsu training in between another one. If i am right, it would get its own training panels/chapters like Naruto's Nature Manipulation training & Sage Art training was. And also to fight Pain/Nagato he needed the Sage arts but to fight Madara he would need not only Sage arts but more things aswell.

The first Hokage never had all the tailed beast under him (though he had the maximum amount of them for a single person). Also did you ever read in the whole manga that the First Hokage was in control of the 9-tails. If you re-read the whole manga you will see that the only ones who were able to totally control the 9-tails were the Uchiha's & the one who used it most was Madara (Tell me did you forget the talk between Jiraiya & that Scroll frog in ch 370 & also the two page spread of the fight between the first Hokage & Madara in ch 399).

He actually said that you need a unique set of abilities to fight that man & Minato sealed Kyuubi inside Naruto so that he could master those required unique abilities as for some to learn those unique abilities one would need a high amount of power.
But what were those unique abilities was not mentioned at all. It is according to me that one of those unique ability might be related to the Flying Thunder God technique.
Well what ever you say, i am sure that Naruto would have to fight Madara in the future after the talk he had with Minato in ch 440. Though who would be the one to defeat Madara i am not sure. If Kishi has planned Madara as the last major villan of the manga then it is most likely possible that Naruto or a combination of Naruto, Sasuke & some other people would be the one to defeat him. But if a villan in the manga appears who is at a much higher level than Madara then the possiblities changes.
As for Killer Bee fight Madara, i can clearly see Killer Bee lose Madara because we haven't seen what actually Madara is capable of now (but we have seen Killer Bee's capabilities). Also if you take the power of Madara when he fought the first hokage into account & Killer Bee's power when he fought you can see that Madara over powers him by a long margin but what is the power level of the present Madara is unknown but still he would easily beat Killer Bee. About Sasuke, i can't say but at present power level i think he would lose to Madara..

Not going to go and quote everything that I want to debate against as I have just woken up and am still somewhat tired.

I am finally glad to see someone provide examples and where to find said examples for their arguments. I have enjoyed our little debate. On another note Minato said special abilities. I can provide a link to the exact page if you want. From what you said before about Minato wanting to keep the technique unique to him and him alone then teaching Naruto the technique would defeat the purpose.

Naruto will fight Madara, I'm sure, but I highly doubt that he will defeat him seeing as he has defeated a ninja that is way beyond S-Rank and I really doubt Kishi would have him alone defeat a ninja even more powerful.

Onto the main topic; can Naruto learn FTG? I'm sure he can. Will he learn it? I doubt this more than anything. We still haven't learned what power Itachi gave Naruto. I think it will be revealed in the anticipated Naruto vs Sasuke fight.

With the Rasengan, it has to be taught. The Sharingan can't copy it. If it could I would use it when I activate my Sharingan against Naruto in Naruto: Ultimate Ninja 3 XD Since Kakashi couldn't add Lightning element to it he made Chidori, you're right. This makes you wonder what Minato's element was. Did it say he couldn't add his element to it or did he die before he could?

Anyway, I don't think Sasuke would be able to use FTG just by witnessing it with Sharingan. He still has to have the physical capabilities. Besides, I don't think it's Sasuke's type of technique. He's too fast already.

That's all I'm going to say on the matter. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and yours is very strong.

I don't think Yahiko was in Akatsuki seeing as they said that there were originally ten members and we know who those ten members were. Also, I read that Yahiko's death might have made Nagato go off the deep end.

MarshtompMan
18th April 2009, 9:03 PM
^The 10 members we know of, aren't necessarily the only members ever.
Kakuzu was famous for killing his partners, and that bulky guy at the end of Part 1 was probably one of them.
So there might have been other replacements.
Zetsu might have been Yahiko's replacement.

Rashdan
18th April 2009, 10:11 PM
With the Rasengan, it has to be taught. The Sharingan can't copy it. If it could I would use it when I activate my Sharingan against Naruto in Naruto: Ultimate Ninja 3 XD Since Kakashi couldn't add Lightning element to it he made Chidori, you're right. This makes you wonder what Minato's element was. Did it say he couldn't add his element to it or did he die before he could?

I can't remember for sure, but when Kakashi taught Naruto Nature/Shape manipulation and performed Rasengan for the first time, he mentioned something about being able to "copy" it using the Sharingan. Or at least, able to master it with the help of the Sharingan.

~Heaven Help Us~
18th April 2009, 10:23 PM
I can't remember for sure, but when Kakashi taught Naruto Nature/Shape manipulation and performed Rasengan for the first time, he mentioned something about being able to "copy" it using the Sharingan. Or at least, able to master it with the help of the Sharingan.

It was probably copying the shape and incorporating it on the Chidori.

uber gon
18th April 2009, 11:10 PM
Wonder how powerful a Kyuubi powered Rasenshuriken will be?

TsukiMirage
18th April 2009, 11:39 PM
I don't think Yahiko was in Akatsuki seeing as they said that there were originally ten members and we know who those ten members were. Also, I read that Yahiko's death might have made Nagato go off the deep end.
Yahiko died before Akatsuki was formed. It was shown in the databook that Yahiko was dead before Pain killed Hanzo and took over Ame. There were also at least 2 earlier members of Akatsuki before the Time Skip.

MarshtompMan
19th April 2009, 12:06 AM
^I remember the big guy but who's the other one you're talking about?
And didn't Madara create Akatsuki?

Kamex
19th April 2009, 3:09 AM
And didn't Madara create Akatsuki?
I believe he did, and according to Minato, Madara tricked Pain into believing he could accomplish his goals with Akatsuki, and thereby joining as the figurehead leader of the organization.

I have a question. Something I was trying to figure out for a while is why the Akatsuki had to wait two and a half years (between Part I and II) before trying to kidnap Naruto again. Does it have anything to do with Orochimaru?

They have to capture the jinchuuriki in order, don't they? So in that case, why did Itachi and Kisame even infiltrate Konoha in the first place (in Part I, I mean)? There's probably an obvious answer I'm overlooking.

TsukiMirage
19th April 2009, 4:16 AM
^I remember the big guy but who's the other one you're talking about?
And didn't Madara create Akatsuki?
Kakuzu was stated to have had and killed several partners before Hiden, That would imply that there was at least two other members in Akatsuki before Hiden joined during the time skip.

Presumably, Akatsuki was still in the progress of locating the jinchuuriki/bijuu and gathering money. But a reason was never actually given as too why they waited. The only rule stated was that they had to seal the Kyuubi last, The rest of the order didn't matter considering that they seal Gaara after two others.

MarshtompMan
19th April 2009, 4:17 AM
Kamex: It was a rhetorical question because some people in the thread were acting like Pain created it and that there were always the same members before the timeskip.
And while I don't know why Pain allowed them to go to Konoha, but Madara said that Itachi came the day after the 3rd Hokage died to make sure Danzo (Damn him!) and the elders didn't tell Sasuke the truth.
Of course, Itachi could have been evil and everything Madara said could be a big lie.

HoennMaster
19th April 2009, 4:40 AM
Srsly, we all know who Naruto's Daddy is silly =3.

We knew be it was confirmed. Kishi wasn't exactly subtle with the hints.


^I remember the big guy but who's the other one you're talking about?

There wasn't one. That big guy was the only one that we never saw.


But I don't understand that if there used to be 10 members, how come Zetsu has never had a partner?

Because he has two personality's.


So in that case, why did Itachi and Kisame even infiltrate Konoha in the first place (in Part I, I mean)? There's probably an obvious answer I'm overlooking.

According to Madara:

When Itachi agreed to kill his entire clan, he made the 3rd Hokage promise to keep Sasuke safe and told the other elders to keep him safe or he would expose the secrets of the village to other countries. The 3rd Hokage agreed, but the other three weren't so happy about it, so when the 3rd Hokage died Itachi appeared in the village again to remind them that he is alive and will still expose their secrets if they don't keep Sasuke safe.

Shadow Lucario
19th April 2009, 8:48 AM
I still want to know where Killer Bee went for his vacation XD

cursedchidori
19th April 2009, 10:07 AM
Soon after Naruto returned to Konoha, he mentioned being able to sense everything around him. He also sensed Kakashi's absence, and comes to the realization that he's dead, when he asked Tsunade if he was out on a mission and didn't get a response. So yeah, Kakashi is presumed dead. They also show Kakashi meeting up with his father in another chapter.

kakashi is still alive
barely clinging to life
cause a few chapters ago tsunade said to choji that his dad and kakashi will survive

Lucario At Service
19th April 2009, 11:26 AM
Not going to go and quote everything that I want to debate against as I have just woken up and am still somewhat tired.

I am finally glad to see someone provide examples and where to find said examples for their arguments. I have enjoyed our little debate. On another note Minato said special abilities. I can provide a link to the exact page if you want. From what you said before about Minato wanting to keep the technique unique to him and him alone then teaching Naruto the technique would defeat the purpose.

Naruto will fight Madara, I'm sure, but I highly doubt that he will defeat him seeing as he has defeated a ninja that is way beyond S-Rank and I really doubt Kishi would have him alone defeat a ninja even more powerful.

Onto the main topic; can Naruto learn FTG? I'm sure he can. Will he learn it? I doubt this more than anything. We still haven't learned what power Itachi gave Naruto. I think it will be revealed in the anticipated Naruto vs Sasuke fight.

With the Rasengan, it has to be taught. The Sharingan can't copy it. If it could I would use it when I activate my Sharingan against Naruto in Naruto: Ultimate Ninja 3 XD Since Kakashi couldn't add Lightning element to it he made Chidori, you're right. This makes you wonder what Minato's element was. Did it say he couldn't add his element to it or did he die before he could?

Anyway, I don't think Sasuke would be able to use FTG just by witnessing it with Sharingan. He still has to have the physical capabilities. Besides, I don't think it's Sasuke's type of technique. He's too fast already.

That's all I'm going to say on the matter. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and yours is very strong.
I too enjoyed our little debate & i am happy that i was able to provide you with good examples to back up my argument (i was able to do it easily because i have stored all the Naruto chapters in one of my drive).

As for the thing about what Minato said to Naruto in ch 440, well i have send you a PM to tell more about it. Also the talk about 'Minato wanting to keep the technique unique to him and him alone', well i said that many people want to keep some technique's unique to themselves until they die. So as Minato is dead, that might not apply here.

Yes i too agree that if Naruto fight's Madara, he won't be able to defeat him alone because presently Madara can be considered as the most powerful shinobi in the whole manga by how it has been shown till now (though he must have lost some of his power because of some reason which according to me is most likely related to the 9-tails attack on Konoha).

Yes, we still have the most likely battle to happen between Naruto & Sasuke, but when that would happen is still a question. As Konoha has been completely destroyed i don't think Sasuke would decide to attack now as the security on the elders of Konoha would be maximum now. And also as Naruto had resently had with Pain i don't think they would make him fight Naruto. Though i have a feeling that the powers which Itachi gave to Naruto would activate in a similar way the fail-safe system Itachi gave Sasuke in order to keep Madara away. So it isn't necessary for Sasuke & Naruto to fight for us to find out what the powers might be.

As far as i know Minato's element was never told in the manga till now. As for the mixing of Nature to Rasengan, well it has been said that Minato wasn't able to do it because of his premature death, but if he hadn't died it would have still might have been a lot difficult for him to do it because according to me Minato might not have considered the method which Naruto used as his option to begin with. So if the creation of Rasengan took Minato four long years, then think how many years would have he taken to create an Elemental Rasengan if Naruto's method is not considered in it (also we don't know what was Minato's chakra level compared to Naruto).

Yes i agree that Sasuke would not be able to do FTG just by looking it with his Sharingan but if he knew its principal, he might be able to do it with the help of his Sharingan (remember Sharingan has a lot of other powers other than copying too). Also you are right that he isn't the type to learn that technique which i also feel strongly but still he has the capabilities to learn it as Naruto has.

BlitzBlast
19th April 2009, 12:53 PM
Minato's element is probably Wind.

Remember, chakra affinities seem to be hereditary, as shown in the entire Uchiha clan having a fire affinity.

MarshtompMan
19th April 2009, 5:08 PM
Because he has two personality's.

But I mean that if there were 10 members, and Zetsu didn't have a partner, than there had to be someone else with no partner, since 10 is an even number.

But that wouldn't be the first plothole.
What about Jugo being the originator of the curse mark even though Anko (Who is 10 years older) got one in her youth.

Horoika1
19th April 2009, 7:39 PM
kakashi is still alive
barely clinging to life
cause a few chapters ago tsunade said to choji that his dad and kakashi will survive

Show me the proof. Tsunade said Choza will survive, but she kept quiet about Kakashi, implying his death.

HoennMaster
19th April 2009, 9:42 PM
Can we just lay off him until it is 100% confirmed?


But I mean that if there were 10 members, and Zetsu didn't have a partner, than there had to be someone else with no partner, since 10 is an even number.

Remember that because Orochimaru took his ring the Akatsuki can only have 9 members at time now.

~Heaven Help Us~
19th April 2009, 10:23 PM
Kakashi is like Hitsugaya from Bleach. He sucks but people still like him.

TsukiMirage
19th April 2009, 11:04 PM
But I mean that if there were 10 members, and Zetsu didn't have a partner, than there had to be someone else with no partner, since 10 is an even number.

But that wouldn't be the first plothole.
What about Jugo being the originator of the curse mark even though Anko (Who is 10 years older) got one in her youth.

Akatsuki didn't start partnering up til a little while after Orochimaru left, As stated by Jiraiya to Kakashi. As for Juugo, Since using too much of his cursed seal makes him appear younger, It's possible that he's actually older then we think.

Haxon22
19th April 2009, 11:17 PM
Kakashi is like Hitsugaya from Bleach. He sucks but people still like him.

WTF!! He's Nothing Like Hitsugaya. Kakashi Is A KickAss Character, Both Funny And Strong. At Least Kakashi Doesn't Get His *** Kicked In Every Fight And Has To Get Help From Someone Else >_>

Kamex
19th April 2009, 11:39 PM
Kakashi is like Hitsugaya from Bleach. He sucks but people still like him.
Huh?! In what way does Kakashi suck? O_o

TsukiMirage
20th April 2009, 12:54 AM
WTF!! He's Nothing Like Hitsugaya. Kakashi Is A KickAss Character, Both Funny And Strong. At Least Kakashi Doesn't Get His *** Kicked In Every Fight And Has To Get Help From Someone Else >_>
Actually, So far Kakshi has had his *** kick in nearly every fight we've seen him in i.e. Against Zabuza, Itachi, Deidara, Kakuzu, And Deva Pain. The only fight we have seen Kakashi win hands down was during Kakashi Gaiden and the second Zabuza fight.

Shadow Lucario
20th April 2009, 1:19 AM
Kakashi didn't get his *** kicked by Zabuza. The only thing Zabuza did was put him in the Water Prison. Nothing special and Itachi is just unfair. No one has a chance against him

TsukiMirage
20th April 2009, 2:13 AM
My point still stands. Kakashi's record isn't all that great, Especially when compared to all the hype he gets.

Swampert_trainer
20th April 2009, 3:34 AM
Everyone complains about the Sasuke arc as if it was the most horrible thing ever, but I actually liked watching his interaction with Team Hawk. And is certainly wasn't drawn out as much as the Pain invasion arc. I'm eagerly awaiting th ereturn of Sasuke and team Hawk and the Ninja from the village hidden in the clouds.

Kamex
20th April 2009, 4:39 AM
Actually, So far Kakshi has had his *** kick in nearly every fight we've seen him in i.e. Against Zabuza, Itachi, Deidara, Kakuzu, And Deva Pain. The only fight we have seen Kakashi win hands down was during Kakashi Gaiden and the second Zabuza fight.
That's because he's always pitted against the most powerful revealed character at the time. Kishimoto may like using him to show how powerful the current villain is, but that's because we all know how experienced of a ninja Kakashi really is.

Though I admit, I would have liked to see him own somebody for once, like I know he can. :/

Shadow Lucario
20th April 2009, 5:45 AM
Let's take a look at Kakashi's marks:

Genin: 5

Chuunin: 6

Jounin: 13

He was also apart of the ANBU Black Ops. That is pretty damn impressive. I don't think anyone who sucks or is weak can pull that off. Everyone has to get beat sometime. Besides, he has to deal with the strain his Sharingan puts on him when he uses it which is in about every fight. That is also why he was in the hospital.

I do not think Minato's Nature Chakra was Wind. Yes the Uchiha Clan all have Fire, but they are a clan so they also have another Nature. An example is Itachi and Sasuke. They are brothers yet one of Itachi's Natures is Water while Sasuke's is Lightning

TsukiMirage
20th April 2009, 6:07 AM
No matter how impressive a person's record, If all you see of that person is them losing, They don't leave a great impression.

It was stated in one of the databooks that some of the Uchiha used wind, So not all of them had the same nature. You have to remember that the whole nature thing is new, So it's not gonna square with the stuff we knew from part one, Especially when it comes to the Sharingan. I mean, It was all the more cooler when a Sharingan user could use any jutsu they saw, Instead of only ones they have a affinity for. Also, Asuma had a wind nature but his father didn't, So that's shows it's not always genetic.

Tobifreed
20th April 2009, 8:25 AM
however, Pain teleported (lol my spellchecker says to put it as 'telephoned' xD).

Pain: Hello?
Tsunade: This is the Hokage how can I help you.
Pain: Finally a Japanese speaking person.
Tsunade: ~sigh~ So how Can I help you?
Pain: I just wanted to tell you I'll be attacking you.
Tsunade: Hmm, OK. What time will this attack take place?
Pain: Around 4:30. PM.
Tsunade: Your time or ours.
Pian: Hmm... Yours.
Tsunade: Can I get your name?
Pain: Sure it's Nagato. But I'll come as pain.
Tsunade: So that is Pain for an attack at 4:30 pm. Got'cha.
Thank you for calling Konoha's Hotline. We wish you a pleasant day.
Pain: Thanks and no problem.

HoennMaster
20th April 2009, 10:23 AM
Akatsuki didn't start partnering up til a little while after Orochimaru left

Orochimaru and Sasori were partners at one point.

uber gon
21st April 2009, 3:23 AM
5 bucks after Nagato talks he'll say something to Naruto that'll cause him to do a DBZ scream that results in some Super Saiyan 3 power-up.:p

TsukiMirage
21st April 2009, 4:15 AM
Orochimaru and Sasori were partners at one point.
I forgot about that, But Orochimaru definitely left near the beginning of the series and soon after Deidara was forced to joined. If you add to that the time Itachi first left Konoha, You get only a small window as to when Akatsuki could have possibly began to partner up.

HoennMaster
21st April 2009, 7:45 AM
He left seven years prior to the series starting.

Kamex
21st April 2009, 8:20 AM
He left seven years prior to the series starting.
Actually that's sort of strange. If Itachi was around 13 when he left Konoha, and around 18 at the start of the series, and Orochimaru left after his failed attack on him, it wouldn't make sense for it to have been seven years back. But I dunno, I might have his age mixed up or something.

Shadow Lucario
21st April 2009, 8:28 AM
Actually that's sort of strange. If Itachi was around 13 when he left Konoha, and around 18 at the start of the series, and Orochimaru left after his failed attack on him, it wouldn't make sense for it to have been seven years back. But I dunno, I might have his age mixed up or something.

No you have it right because Itachi was 13 when he became captain of the ANBU Black Ops. In Shippuden they say Orochimaru left Akatsuki ten years ago so you can say Orochimaru left around 7-8 years before the start of the series

TsukiMirage
21st April 2009, 9:04 AM
Ok, Small wasn't the right word, My mistake. After some research, Orochimaru worked with Sasori five/six years before Itachi joined and It was a year before Orochimaru try taking Itachi's eyes and ran away.

darktyranitar937
21st April 2009, 9:50 AM
;465;sasori is actually a puppet..... he has that chakra emmiting thing on his chest....

Electivirus
21st April 2009, 1:26 PM
;465;sasori is actually a puppet..... he has that chakra emmiting thing on his chest....

No sh*t, Sherlock.

Meh, it's probably just a retcon or something.

TsukiMirage
21st April 2009, 8:15 PM
;465;sasori is actually a puppet..... he has that chakra emmiting thing on his chest....
That's his heart that emits the chakra strings.

Kamex
22nd April 2009, 2:23 AM
No you have it right because Itachi was 13 when he became captain of the ANBU Black Ops. In Shippuden they say Orochimaru left Akatsuki ten years ago so you can say Orochimaru left around 7-8 years before the start of the series
Well that means the youngest Itachi could have possibly been at the start of the series is 20... funny I thought I remember reading he was like 18 then and 20/21 now, but I guess that source was mistaken.

uber gon
22nd April 2009, 4:10 AM
Something tells me Naruto is probably going to get some Kyuubi/Sage Mode form that looks like the Super Saiyan 3 from Dragonball Z, just with eyebrows.

Staryu
22nd April 2009, 4:38 AM
Just what he needs..another power up ><

uber gon
22nd April 2009, 4:42 AM
Just what he needs..another power up ><

Meh Super Saiyan 3 would look pretty awesome on Naruto, more or less.

Shadow Lucario
22nd April 2009, 5:11 AM
I highly doubt Naruto would get ANOTHER power up. It is not needed.

HoennMaster
22nd April 2009, 9:32 AM
At this point in time I doubt he needs one. Obviously if he battles him he will eventually beat Madara. For goodness sakes, he just defeated all six paths of Pain on his own, he's plenty powerful.


sasori is actually a puppet

At e was once fully human. The point of posting this was?

TsukiMirage
22nd April 2009, 9:39 AM
Considering the crappy deus ex that is Sage Mode, Naruto should never need another power-up again. Why, When he has basically been given superhuman powers with no drawbacks. Even Kishi's writing can't become so bad he needs to give Naruto another power.

Mawile XD
22nd April 2009, 10:39 AM
><

Naruto fans are impossible to please.

Months ago, everybody was whining about how Naruto was too weak, and needed to get stronger. Kishimoto made him stronger, and Naruto vs. Pain was fairly good. Now that Naruto's finally strong enough to be a real threat, you're all saying he's too strong. If he'd lost to Pain, you'd be grumbling over how he wasn't strong enough. I can see why people were angry over Sasuke, but for the first time in ages, Naruto's getting good, and you still hate it.

Sage Mode has a very serious drawback. Because the Kyubi's chakra disrupts Sage chakra, if Naruto gets angry enough, he'll lose all of his Sage Mode shadow clones. He also needs to prepare them before battling, because he gets practically no chances to remain still for long. The next anticipated battles for Naruto are Madara and Sasuke, both which would stress Naruto enough to make him rely on the fox. If he gets a new power-up, it'll probably be finding his second chakra nature, or working on new wind jutsu.

So, to sum all this up, relax, and try to keep yourself from critiquing the plot unless Kishimoto does something ridiculous, like with Sasuke and Deidara.

Electivirus
22nd April 2009, 1:11 PM
><

Naruto fans are impossible to please.

Months ago, everybody was whining about how Naruto was too weak, and needed to get stronger. Kishimoto made him stronger, and Naruto vs. Pain was fairly good. Now that Naruto's finally strong enough to be a real threat, you're all saying he's too strong. If he'd lost to Pain, you'd be grumbling over how he wasn't strong enough. I can see why people were angry over Sasuke, but for the first time in ages, Naruto's getting good, and you still hate it.

Sage Mode has a very serious drawback. Because the Kyubi's chakra disrupts Sage chakra, if Naruto gets angry enough, he'll lose all of his Sage Mode shadow clones. He also needs to prepare them before battling, because he gets practically no chances to remain still for long. The next anticipated battles for Naruto are Madara and Sasuke, both which would stress Naruto enough to make him rely on the fox. If he gets a new power-up, it'll probably be finding his second chakra nature, or working on new wind jutsu.

So, to sum all this up, relax, and try to keep yourself from critiquing the plot unless Kishimoto does something ridiculous, like with Sasuke and Deidara.

Fandumb. Can't live with it...

In any case, I'm very interested in seeing how this talk with Nagato turns out.

Mawile XD
22nd April 2009, 3:37 PM
I see it this way. Naruto would've already killed Nagato if he was going to in the first place; it makes the whole talk make no sense. I'll make a theory that the second point of Pain is Yahiko's death, caused by a Konoha ninja or Nagato. Pretty much, since Naruto suddenly matured so much with Jiraiya's death, I think he's going to say something to show Nagato the error of his ways, and change him. Nagato is a pitiful character because his idea of peace is warped. He talks about destroying entire countries with the power of the tailed beasts, but he doesn't have the right to decide who dies. To make himself more confident in this, he thinks of himself as a god.

Naruto's probably going to come up with a peaceful solution that could actually work, as their world is far different. I see Madara as the one to kill Nagato, as he failed to capture Naruto, and hence is expendable. He knows too much about Madara, so he has to die. Nagato would be a changed man, according to my theory, so nothing would be stopping him from revealing the secret existence of Madara. Here are the possibilities of what the conversation will end up being.

1. Naruto isn't impressed with Nagato's reasoning, and kills him, taking the avenger path.

2. Naruto sacrifices himself for peace, and lets Nagato capture him to extract the Kyubi.

3. Nagato and/or Konan escape from Naruto.

4. Nagato reveals a new ability, and manages to take down Naruto. Konan could also be the one to beat him.

5. Naruto's answer changes Nagato's mind about peacemaking.

6. Madara/Zetsu appear and kill Nagato before they finish the conversation.

7. Naruto captures Nagato, and hauls him back to Konoha.

8. Naruto gives himself up, and lets Nagato take him, but is rescued by his friends.

Shadow Lucario
22nd April 2009, 7:31 PM
I never complained about Naruto being too weak. I never thought he was. Also I am not complaining that he is too strong because I don't think he is, seeing as he couldn't beat Deva in Sage Mode and had to use the fox

Mawile XD
22nd April 2009, 7:39 PM
Considering the crappy deus ex that is Sage Mode, Naruto should never need another power-up again. Why, When he has basically been given superhuman powers with no drawbacks. Even Kishi's writing can't become so bad he needs to give Naruto another power.


Just what he needs..another power up ><

I was responding to those, mainly TsukiMirage. If you need a deus ex, look at Sasuke, the magical boy who can summon Manda and hypnotize him when he has no chakra! All hail Sasuke, who pulls Amaterasu out of the bag randomly, with no hint that he could use it.

Electivirus
22nd April 2009, 8:32 PM
I was responding to those, mainly TsukiMirage. If you need a deus ex, look at Sasuke, the magical boy who can summon Manda and hypnotize him when he has no chakra! All hail Sasuke, who pulls Amaterasu out of the bag randomly, with no hint that he could use it.

Mr. Spotlight Stealing Squad himself, eh? Asspull ahoy!!

Mawile XD
22nd April 2009, 9:07 PM
I enjoy knowing that Sasuke would've died three times without the rest of Hawk saving and healing him against Killerbee. I mean, Killerbee was unbelievably tough, but it gives me hope that Naruto will beat Sasuke senseless. Or rather, knock some sense into the emo crybaby.

Electivirus
22nd April 2009, 9:39 PM
I enjoy knowing that Sasuke would've died three times without the rest of Hawk saving and healing him against Killerbee. I mean, Killerbee was unbelievably tough, but it gives me hope that Naruto will beat Sasuke senseless. Or rather, knock some sense into the emo crybaby.

He'd better beat the crap out of Sasuke. He just killed freaking PEIN. The Person of Mass Destruction himself. :/

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
22nd April 2009, 9:46 PM
*Pain
Official spelling =3

I just hope SOMEONE beats the crap out of Sasuke, doesn't matter who!

Electivirus
22nd April 2009, 9:49 PM
*Pain
Official spelling =3


Does it really matter? :/

TsukiMirage
22nd April 2009, 11:04 PM
><

Naruto fans are impossible to please.

Months ago, everybody was whining about how Naruto was too weak, and needed to get stronger. Kishimoto made him stronger, and Naruto vs. Pain was fairly good. Now that Naruto's finally strong enough to be a real threat, you're all saying he's too strong. If he'd lost to Pain, you'd be grumbling over how he wasn't strong enough. I can see why people were angry over Sasuke, but for the first time in ages, Naruto's getting good, and you still hate it.

Sage Mode has a very serious drawback. Because the Kyubi's chakra disrupts Sage chakra, if Naruto gets angry enough, he'll lose all of his Sage Mode shadow clones. He also needs to prepare them before battling, because he gets practically no chances to remain still for long. The next anticipated battles for Naruto are Madara and Sasuke, both which would stress Naruto enough to make him rely on the fox. If he gets a new power-up, it'll probably be finding his second chakra nature, or working on new wind jutsu.

So, to sum all this up, relax, and try to keep yourself from critiquing the plot unless Kishimoto does something ridiculous, like with Sasuke and Deidara.
Ok, First off, Yes I have complain that Naruto was weak, Especially when compare to the likes of Sasuke and Sakura. I did want Naruto to get more power, But as in controlling and mastering the Kyuubi. Kishi had three years to give Naruto something and it made no sense that he had nothing after the time skip.

But Sage Mode is a little much. It was introduced with no warning and then it became this means all shortcut to Sennin level. Suddenly in a weeks time, Naruto is ready to handle the likes of Pain and Sasuke, When before he could barely keep up? That's not a good way to advance the plot. It's clear that Kishi gave it to him because he didn't want to actually come up with anything else. In one weeks time Naruto not only surpasses Kakashi, But Jiraiya and Minato? Even Sasuke could barely handle Ororchimaru and Itachi with his power-ups. But no, Naruto completely overcomes those better then him and what do we get out of it? Some new moves? Some new tactic? No, We get the same old Naruto using the same old tricks, Only this time, He has a new power source. One that won't slowly kill him, So he can use it whenever and however he wants. Then we learn from Minato that Naruto has to use the Kyuubi against Madara, Which means his training in Sage Mode instead of the Kyuubi was probably pointless.

Sage Mode lacks any drawbacks. The example you gave doesn't work anymore since Minato fix the seal to it's original form. He undid what Jiraiya had done to allow Naruto more of the Kyuubi's chakra, So Naruto can't lose control like he did before. Along with the concentration Naruto learned for Sage Mode, That means he won't be losing control again. There's also the fact that it seems to take Naruto just several seconds to return in Sage Mode, Which means he probably won't be needing the clones anymore.


I was responding to those, mainly TsukiMirage. If you need a deus ex, look at Sasuke, the magical boy who can summon Manda and hypnotize him when he has no chakra! All hail Sasuke, who pulls Amaterasu out of the bag randomly, with no hint that he could use it. While the Manda incident was ********, I can forgive it since he was using Orochimaru's chakra. As for Amaterasu, Sasuke gain that as soon as he gain MS, So that wasn't a surprise. Even with all the power-ups Sasuke gets, The Status qua is still maintain. Sasuke defeat a sickly Orochimaru using his weakness, Itachi allow Sasuke to kill him, And in the end Kirabi basically won. The only battle that was crap was vs Deidara, And even that isn't so bad compare to the current arc.

I mean Nagato went from a badass to a pansy who want's the world destroy cause his puppy died. I miss part one, When we had real villains.

Shadow Lucario
22nd April 2009, 11:12 PM
Even though Sasuke is my favorite character I must say the Deidara battle was crap. He didn't have enough time to summon Manda and use his Sharingan to hypnotize him. When Deidara exploded Sasuke was watching him, not moving an inch. One more thing, Mawile, this is a discussion thread, not a bashing thread. There is no need to bash characters especially without a really good reason

uber gon
22nd April 2009, 11:15 PM
Wonder how negative Konoha will be portrayed in the next chapter?

TsukiMirage
22nd April 2009, 11:48 PM
Seeing as how Kishi didn't even have the guts to have the Konoha-nins kill Nagato's parents on purpose, It'll probably just be another stupid misunderstanding.

uber gon
23rd April 2009, 3:06 AM
Seeing as how Kishi didn't even have the guts to have the Konoha-nins kill Nagato's parents on purpose, It'll probably just be another stupid misunderstanding.

Darn, I wanted something Uchiha genocide bad, but you may be right.

Kamex
23rd April 2009, 7:23 AM
Then we learn from Minato that Naruto has to use the Kyuubi against Madara, Which means his training in Sage Mode instead of the Kyuubi was probably pointless.
Actually, we saw some sort of a combination of Kyuubi Naruto and Sage Naruto in his eyes in the last chapter, despite his not using any such new combination of power yet. But apparently he may be able to combine them, meaning they'll both come to use.

Minato said he'd have to use the Nine Tails to his advantage, but I don't think he ever mentioned the Sage training or natural energy, much less condemn them.

TsukiMirage
23rd April 2009, 8:26 AM
Actually, we saw some sort of a combination of Kyuubi Naruto and Sage Naruto in his eyes in the last chapter, despite his not using any such new combination of power yet. But apparently he may be able to combine them, meaning they'll both come to use.

Minato said he'd have to use the Nine Tails to his advantage, but I don't think he ever mentioned the Sage training or natural energy, much less condemn them.
That seem to have been cause by Nagato's chakra rod being shot into Naruto, Although I could be wrong.

The thing about that is there's this big hype of Sage Mode, When in fact, Naruto possesses more power and abilities with his Kyuubi cloaks. I wouldn't have such a problem with Sage Mode if it had been introduced earlier on or gave Naruto something new.

Shadow Lucario
23rd April 2009, 11:10 PM
Darn, I wanted something Uchiha genocide bad, but you may be right.

Yeah, that already happened and now it can't be a genocide since there is only one left...

TsukiMirage
23rd April 2009, 11:45 PM
Yeah, that already happened and now it can't be a genocide since there is only one left...

I believe he meant that he wanted to see something in Nagato's past that equaled the Uchiha Massacred.

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
23rd April 2009, 11:48 PM
It'd be homocide =3

Also with what Tsuki said about introducing Sage Mode earlier....I think the point of Sage Mode is that while it has less power than the Nine-Tailed Fox, it is far easier to control. Also, using the Fox's power has always been his trump card, giving him a new trump card would just give the Fox the shaft, when in fact it is very important to the story.

TsukiMirage
24th April 2009, 12:28 AM
It'd be homocide =3

Also with what Tsuki said about introducing Sage Mode earlier....I think the point of Sage Mode is that while it has less power than the Nine-Tailed Fox, it is far easier to control. Also, using the Fox's power has always been his trump card, giving him a new trump card would just give the Fox the shaft, when in fact it is very important to the story.
Sage Mode is just as powerful as the Kyuubi cloak, Minus the healing. And with Sage Mode's invulnerability, that's a mute point. Maybe it's just me, But I would've like to see Naruto actually act like a Jinchuuriki.

uber gon
24th April 2009, 3:39 AM
I believe he meant that he wanted to see something in Nagato's past that equaled the Uchiha Massacred.

Actually I meant I wanted Konoha to do something really bad, like the failed Uchiha Massacre.

Shadow Lucario
24th April 2009, 4:27 AM
Actually I meant I wanted Konoha to do something really bad, like the failed Uchiha Massacre.

Only reason it failed was because Sasuke and Itachi's parents tried to make another Itachi and it didn't work XD If Itachi never had aa little brother I'm sure there would only be on Uchiha after that night.

TsukiMirage
24th April 2009, 7:02 AM
Well, It was a good chapter. At least we got some insight on Konan and Yahiko. Still have no idea what the Rinnegan's power is, So I still maintain my earlier comments.

Shadow Lucario
24th April 2009, 7:10 AM
So it was Yahiko's dream to rule the world. Interesting stuff. Never knew Nagato had a dog. It was named Tiny of all things XD

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
24th April 2009, 7:13 AM
all we really learned in that chapter is they used to have a dog with a crappy name, and how Nagato met Yahiko and Konan.

No chapter next week apparently...

TsukiMirage
24th April 2009, 8:17 AM
Next week is Golden Week so no Shounen Jump.

HoennMaster
24th April 2009, 10:02 AM
Poor dog...

It was an okay chapter. Nice to see that Konan had a complete 180 in personality.

uber gon
24th April 2009, 3:52 PM
Poor dog...

It was an okay chapter. Nice to see that Konan had a complete 180 in personality.

I'm sure Konan can be like her old self...just with Nagato though.

Wonder if this will be foreshadowing for Akamaru?

Kamex
24th April 2009, 9:24 PM
Yeah, Konan went from being a kind (but not quite bubbly) little girl to a typically stoic villain. Which is cool, by the way.

Cool how Pain is sort of just continuing what started off as Yahiko's childish dream.

I always liked how Yahiko was the assertive one, and Nagato very reserved and sensitive... yet in the present time, partly thanks to the Rinnegan and partly just the way life works I guess, Nagato ends up being the kick-*** villain who's actually gotten dangerously close to realizing their mutual dream. All three of them changed. People change, that's realistic so it's captivating to see IMO.

Anyway, looks like next chapter reveals how he officially became "Pain"... I hope Kishimoto doesn't rush into it too fast.

Kyogre Master
24th April 2009, 9:39 PM
0_0;

I just finished reading chapters 430-445...

Amazing...It'll take me a while to absorbe all that info.

uber gon
24th April 2009, 10:14 PM
Hopefully that dead puppy doesn't foreshadow Akamaru dying. I don't want another puppy to die.

TsukiMirage
24th April 2009, 10:51 PM
Oh, Akamaru is MUCH smarter then Chibi will ever be (Cause he's dead.) I mean, Who wanders into the middle of a battlefield? They're better off without him.

Kamex
24th April 2009, 11:59 PM
Something I didn't think of is that it's cool how the future leader of Akatsuki (or the supposed future leader) was right there as a child near Orochimaru, who would be a part of the organization. Seeing as he (perhaps jokingly) wanted to kill Nagato and his friends instead of help them, Pain never should have let him join. XD


Oh, Akamaru is MUCH smarter then Chibi will ever be (Cause he's dead.) I mean, Who wanders into the middle of a battlefield? They're better off without him.
But it's not the dog's fault they wandered into the battlefield... that's not the impression I got after reading the chapter. You make it sound like it lead them there.

Shadow Lucario
25th April 2009, 12:51 AM
Orochimaru would have done some good if they killed Nagato, but thanks to Jiraiya the world is in turmoil, or at least Konoha is

TsukiMirage
25th April 2009, 1:45 AM
But it's not the dog's fault they wandered into the battlefield... that's not the impression I got after reading the chapter. You make it sound like it lead them there.
Well, I also blame the Ame trio too. I mean, It was a battlefield. There must have been sounds of war and the smell of blood. I just find it hard to believe a dog wouldn't be able to smell or hear the battle.

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
25th April 2009, 12:16 PM
Orochimaru would have done some good if they killed Nagato, but thanks to Jiraiya the world is in turmoil, or at least Konoha is

The only time Orochimaru tried to do something good, he wasn't allowed xD

shiny gible
25th April 2009, 2:43 PM
Ya I know... all Orochimaru wanted to do is save Konoha is the future but noooo Jiraiya had to stop him and train them
He should have just left them to die even though that would be messed up

HoennMaster
25th April 2009, 5:46 PM
The only time Orochimaru tried to do something good, he wasn't allowed xD

Oh the irony. All we've ever known about Orochimaru was just misleading! J/K.

For some strange reason, when I saw the pick of the Sannin it was hard to picture Orochimaru as this psychotic.....creature/murder/whatever you want to call him.


Hopefully that dead puppy doesn't foreshadow Akamaru dying. I don't want another puppy to die.

I believe that is reading to much into it.

Horoika1
25th April 2009, 6:40 PM
The only thing I have to say about this chapter: Poor Tiny :'(

Shadow Lucario
25th April 2009, 7:54 PM
I'm goin to keep saying this until someone answers me. Where did Killer Bee go for his vacation? XD

Horoika1
25th April 2009, 9:02 PM
He's become a nomad! Enjoying life as it comes to him?

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
25th April 2009, 10:36 PM
I'm goin to keep saying this until someone answers me. Where did Killer Bee go for his vacation? XD

Look under your bed before you go to sleep.

Oh yeah, I got Naruto 42 today...reminded me of how awesome Jiraiya's death was

Adeku
25th April 2009, 10:38 PM
Yeah, Konan went from being a kind (but not quite bubbly) little girl to a typically stoic villain. Which is cool, by the way.

Cool how Pain is sort of just continuing what started off as Yahiko's childish dream.

I always liked how Yahiko was the assertive one, and Nagato very reserved and sensitive... yet in the present time, partly thanks to the Rinnegan and partly just the way life works I guess, Nagato ends up being the kick-*** villain who's actually gotten dangerously close to realizing their mutual dream. All three of them changed. People change, that's realistic so it's captivating to see IMO.

Anyway, looks like next chapter reveals how he officially became "Pain"... I hope Kishimoto doesn't rush into it too fast.

The newest chapter doesn't explain how he became Pain entirely. It continues into the next chapter and maybe the one after that.

Blaziryu
25th April 2009, 10:40 PM
Poor Nagato. Losing both of his parents. And now his little dog too. I guess Yahiko's death is what turn him into Pain.

uber gon
25th April 2009, 10:44 PM
Poor Nagato. Losing both of his parents. And now his little dog too. I guess Yahiko's death is what turn him into Pain.

Maybe Konan gets raped as a follow up. That might mess him up even more.

Kamex
25th April 2009, 11:29 PM
The newest chapter doesn't explain how he became Pain entirely. It continues into the next chapter and maybe the one after that.
I can't tell if you realized this or not, but I was referring to the chapter that will come in two weeks, which was named "The Birth of Pain" or something to that effect.


Maybe Konan gets raped as a follow up. That might mess him up even more.
That would be terrible... O_O

...though it would explain her quiet, depressing personality. >_>

Horoika1
26th April 2009, 1:53 AM
I can't tell if you realized this or not, but I was referring to the chapter that will come in two weeks, which was named "The Birth of Pain" or something to that effect.

Why do you say 2 weeks?

Shadow Lucario
26th April 2009, 1:57 AM
There is no chapter next week because it is Golden Week

uber gon
26th April 2009, 2:24 AM
There is no chapter next week because it is Golden Week

Darn, I wanted to know what new tragedy will follow.

Haxon22
26th April 2009, 3:06 AM
Wonder if Konan will be next to be killed bt Naruto

Haxon22
26th April 2009, 3:06 AM
Wonder if Konan will be next to be killed bt Naruto

Shadow Lucario
26th April 2009, 4:06 AM
Probably not. If Nagato dies she will kill herself most likely. She wouldn't have a purpose.

uber gon
26th April 2009, 7:06 AM
Probably not. If Nagato dies she will kill herself most likely. She wouldn't have a purpose.

Maybe Danzou randomly appears and burns her to death, but not before mind ****ing her with some ****ed up jutsu.

Shadow Lucario
26th April 2009, 7:12 AM
That would be pretty funny XD I wonder what Danzou can do. We haven't seen him do any Jutsu. We've only seen him stab a frog. How hard is that? We have to know if he's going to be a challenge for Sasuke or not. On another note, just saw the fifth Naruto movie. Not that great. It was actually quite boring.

HoennMaster
26th April 2009, 8:09 AM
Wonder if Konan will be next to be killed bt Naruto

They have been together for over 20 years now, what reason could he possibly have to kill his only friend.

Alloute
26th April 2009, 8:13 AM
Sakura is so kawaii, Sasuke is my lil' emo, and Naruto is annoying teehee.

Long live Pain and Konan! Madara is evil, Zetsu is so silly, Kisame is scary as hell lol.

Anyone read the manga? It's getting interesting.

Illusione-Tempus
26th April 2009, 8:42 AM
I can't believe Asuma died too, people know what I mean. And did Shikamaru smoked? o_0

Alloute
26th April 2009, 8:44 AM
Asuma-sensei....

Shikamaru smokes in the JAP manga, not in the US manga, they cover the cigarette.

Shadow Lucario
26th April 2009, 9:25 AM
They have been together for over 20 years now, what reason could he possibly have to kill his only friend.

That says Naruto, not Nagato @_@ He did spell "by" wrong though :D

HoennMaster
26th April 2009, 10:15 AM
LOL, could have sworn it said Nagato.


Anyone read the manga?

That's kind of why we are posting in this thread..........

Shadow Lucario
26th April 2009, 10:47 AM
Killer Bee? Vacation? Anyone? XD

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
26th April 2009, 11:00 AM
Asuma-sensei....

Shikamaru smokes in the JAP manga, not in the US manga, they cover the cigarette.

I pointed that out a few pages ago....in the US manga, Shikamaru has an obsession with pointing at things.


Killer Bee? Vacation? Anyone? XD
Think. If you were a stereotypical black man being hunted by an emo kid, a waterman, a masochist and a schizophrenic, where would you go? It's obvious - Hawaii.

Shadow Lucario
26th April 2009, 11:02 AM
I was going to say 50 Cent concert but ok let's go with Hawaii XD It's funny that the first somewhat black character in Naruto raps. Like that helps the sterotypes XD

Horoika1
26th April 2009, 1:07 PM
Could someone explain to me what Golden Week is?

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
26th April 2009, 2:03 PM
From Wikipedia:

Golden Week (ゴールデンウィーク ,Gōruden Wīku?), also known as Ōgata renkyū (大型連休 ?) or Ōgon shūkan (黄金週間 ?), is a Japanese term applied to the period containing the following public holidays:

April 29 - Shōwa Day (昭和の日 ,Shōwa no hi?)
May 3 - Constitution Memorial Day (憲法記念日 ,Kenpō kinenbi?)
May 4 - Greenery Day, or Nature Day (みどりの日 ,Midori no hi?), from 2007
May 5- Children's Day (こどもの日 ,Kodomo no hi?), also customarily known as Boys' Day (端午の節句 ,Tango no sekku?).

†: "kokumin no kyūjitsu" or "citizen's holiday" is a generic term for any official holiday. May 4th was until 2007 an unnamed but official holiday because of a rule that converts any day between two holidays into a new holiday.
Note that May Day (on May 1) is not a public holiday. Instead, Japan has Labour Thanksgiving Day, a holiday with a similar purpose. When a public holiday lands on a Sunday, the next day that is not already a holiday becomes a holiday for that year.

And how it relates to manga:

Many Japanese take paid time off on the intervening work days, but some companies also close down completely and give their employees time off. Golden Week is the longest vacation period of the year for many Japanese jobs. Two other holidays may also be observed for most or all of a week: Oshōgatsu in January and Obon in August. Golden Week is an extremely popular time to travel. Flights, trains, and hotels are often fully booked despite significantly higher rates at this time. Popular foreign destinations in Asia, Guam, Saipan, Hawaii, and major cities on the west coast of North America, such as Los Angeles, Seattle, San Francisco, and Vancouver, as well as in Europe, are affected during these seasons by huge numbers of Japanese tourists.

Horoika1
26th April 2009, 4:05 PM
Thank you K-SW, explains a lot. Even though it is from Wiki...w/e

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
26th April 2009, 6:42 PM
thought it'd be easier to post that rather than re-word it. I know what it is (a one-week holiday) but didn't know why. That also gave me answers =3

uber gon
26th April 2009, 9:26 PM
That would be pretty funny XD I wonder what Danzou can do. We haven't seen him do any Jutsu. We've only seen him stab a frog. How hard is that? We have to know if he's going to be a challenge for Sasuke or not.

Maybe he fused a dead head member Hyuga's Byakugan and Sasuke's dad's Sharingan. That'd be seriously broken, but kinda awesome at the same time.

Alloute
26th April 2009, 9:36 PM
Kakashi Sharingan Warrior: I didn't know you had pointed out the whole Shikamaru not smoking in US thing, so sorry. It's my first time posting here.

Anyways, anyone think Killer Bee is next to die? He is gonna get captured for sure, he's the final Jinchuriki apart from Naruto....

Shadow Lucario
26th April 2009, 11:39 PM
I was reading Naruto Volume 33-40, I can't remember which one, and I saw Shikamaru light a lighter and put it up to his face and nothing was in his hand. I was like, "WTF!" Ha ha, American censorship sucks...

HoennMaster
26th April 2009, 11:44 PM
I don't get why they edited it out of the manga. Look at other manga's like Yu-Gi-Oh, there are worse things in there then a cigarette.

TsukiMirage
26th April 2009, 11:52 PM
I don't get why they edited it out of the manga. Look at other manga's like Yu-Gi-Oh, there are worse things in there then a cigarette.
Because apparently, As soon as we see Shikamaru take a puff, We'll run out a by a pack, Because everyone likes to copy ninjas.

Kamex
27th April 2009, 12:23 AM
Danzou's signature technique is Frog-Stabbing Jutsu. Sage Mode's only weakness...

EDIT:

The main reason they edit Shikamaru's smoking is probably because he's still pretty young.


Anyways, anyone think Killer Bee is next to die? He is gonna get captured for sure, he's the final Jinchuriki apart from Naruto....
Perhaps Madara will capture Hachibi himself.

LonesomeDiamond
27th April 2009, 12:49 AM
It's because the idiots over here decided that Naruto should be specifically marketed to children(like that makes any ****ing sense) before they realized all the obvious **** that shows up in it(Lee drinking, Shika smoking...uh PEOPLE DYING). Naruto is mainstream so it's subject to lawsuits and *****ing from pricks more than any other manga around in America.

Just compare it to all the ******* Pkmn controversies we've had to deal w/.

I hate mainstream...

~Heaven Help Us~
27th April 2009, 1:07 AM
Danzou's signature technique is Frog-Stabbing Jutsu. Sage Mode's only weakness...

EDIT:

The main reason they edit Shikamaru's smoking is probably because he's still pretty young.


Perhaps Madara will capture Hachibi himself.

Maybe he will confront Sasuke being all like "Useless guy" and then they will get in a fight. Sasuke will lose, but then he will train to get stronger and then kill him in round two just before he goes and fights Naruto.

Alloute
27th April 2009, 1:09 AM
The Hachibi is doomed if Madara gets to him...

Anyways lol yeah I have all the volumes in English and I hate the censorship, it ruined the manga.

~Heaven Help Us~
27th April 2009, 1:12 AM
The Hachibi is doomed if Madara gets to him...

Anyways lol yeah I have all the volumes in English and I hate the censorship, it ruined the manga.

Is it worth getting them in English?

HoennMaster
27th April 2009, 3:45 AM
The censorship is not the bad, and it didn't ruin the manga.

Alloute
27th April 2009, 4:00 AM
Is it worth getting them in English?

I have the money, so yes it's worth it.

Hoenn Master: That's your opinion, I believe it ruined the manga^_^

Horoika1
27th April 2009, 4:15 AM
Lol K-SW, everyone has to learn somewhere.

That is very far-fetched, uber gon, even for Kishi.

Shadow Lucario
27th April 2009, 5:38 AM
Anyone else check out Naruto Shippuden: Bonds? If you haven't, don't. It wasn't good at all. One scene was good and it was a fight scene with Naruto and Sasuke and some guy that is a movie only character. I liked the third Naruto movie better :/

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
27th April 2009, 9:43 AM
I have the money, so yes it's worth it.

Hoenn Master: That's your opinion, I believe it ruined the manga^_^
How does Shikamaru not-smoking ruin the manga? They even cut his cigarette out of the Japanese anime. To be honest, I really like the Viz translation.

With 10 year olds burying themselves alive in sand trying to imitate Gaara's fight with Kimimaro, I doubt Viz Media want to take any more chances xD

And Shadow Lucario, after the epic disappointment that Naruto Shippuden The Movie, I won't even touch Bonds with a barge pole xD

~Heaven Help Us~
27th April 2009, 9:39 PM
Whatever, I'll probably get them in Japanese.

TsukiMirage
27th April 2009, 11:07 PM
And Shadow Lucario, after the epic disappointment that Naruto Shippuden The Movie, I won't even touch Bonds with a barge pole xD
What was wrong with the first movie? I mean besides Naruto's lack of nearly everything and strange storyline. Shion made all that up for me. In fact, She's my second favorite filler character, Only after Guren.

Anyhow, I didn't think Bonds was too bad. It was just the whole stupidity of those Sky Ninjas taking on Konoha without trouble the first time, Both being taken out by a few the next time. But Naruto going Kyuubi and the Reibi made that up.

Horoika1
27th April 2009, 11:40 PM
The movie happened too fast, there should have been a more complex and longer assault with the Sky Ninja and by the Sky Ninja.

Alloute
27th April 2009, 11:50 PM
How does Shikamaru not-smoking ruin the manga? They even cut his cigarette out of the Japanese anime. To be honest, I really like the Viz translation.

With 10 year olds burying themselves alive in sand trying to imitate Gaara's fight with Kimimaro, I doubt Viz Media want to take any more chances xD

And Shadow Lucario, after the epic disappointment that Naruto Shippuden The Movie, I won't even touch Bonds with a barge pole xD

I ruins the orientation of the art that's how.

The Viz translation is ok, but they edit out the vulgar language and it's just ugh.

~Spacial_Rendation~
28th April 2009, 1:11 AM
The Viz translation is ok, but they edit out the vulgar language and it's just ugh.
You do know that only Fan Subbers put in vulgar words right? And that Naruto, in Japan, is aimed at children right?

Alloute
28th April 2009, 1:14 AM
You do know that only Fan Subbers put in vulgar words right? And that Naruto, in Japan, is aimed at children right?

Yes I know...

I still think the vulgar language makes it realistic. Viz doesn't add vulgar language to Naruto, but they allow the word "crap" in Bleach?

Kamex
28th April 2009, 1:35 AM
Yes I know...

I still think the vulgar language makes it realistic. Viz doesn't add vulgar language to Naruto, but they allow the word "crap" in Bleach?
They also allow other semi-curse words in Bleach... but Naruto is more mainstream, not to mention Bleach has the advantage of being aired on Adult Swim.

In any case, I don't think curse words can really make or break any kind of anime. :/

darkrai dude
28th April 2009, 2:28 AM
They also allow other semi-curse words in Bleach... but Naruto is more mainstream, not to mention Bleach has the advantage of being aired on Adult Swim.

In any case, I don't think curse words can really make or break any kind of anime. :/

Curse words are generally used in animé to show traits of a punk/popular kid/ect. I do agree, though. Bad language just gives you a bad rep.

uber gon
28th April 2009, 4:19 AM
If Konan does get raped as a kid will that be shown in the manga? Child rape was mentioned in Berserk so who knows about Naruto.

Shadow Lucario
28th April 2009, 5:00 AM
When I heard about Bonds I heard Naruto and Sasuke were going to team up. I thought it would be for the whole move, not five seconds -_-

HoennMaster
28th April 2009, 5:51 AM
Removing swear words or similar words does not make it worse. They don't make or break the manga.


If Konan does get raped as a kid will that be shown in the manga? Child rape was mentioned in Berserk so who knows about Naruto.

I'm starting to worry about you.

Alloute
28th April 2009, 5:55 AM
Does anyone know who Tobi really is? Is he Obito, Madara, Izuna, Shisui, or the Mizukage?!

Shadow Lucario
28th April 2009, 6:44 AM
No one knows. Not right now at least

Alloute
28th April 2009, 6:47 AM
No one knows. Not right now at least

I was hoping people would have a guess as to his identity lol

Anyway, Danzo it probably NOT Tobi, it doesn't fit that well.

Shadow Lucario
28th April 2009, 6:48 AM
I think he is either Madara or Obito. He has the Sharingan so he has to be an Uchiha

Alloute
28th April 2009, 6:50 AM
I think he is either Madara or Obito. He has the Sharingan so he has to be an Uchiha

Of course he has sharingan but it's getting annoying lol, I want to see his face...

I wonder if Pain knows his true identity...

Shadow Lucario
28th April 2009, 6:55 AM
Well Kisame does because he took his mask off in front of him

Alloute
28th April 2009, 6:57 AM
Well Kisame does because he took his mask off in front of him

I know lol, I envy him, it's not fair to keep us waiting. Kisame and Zetsu might now, Zetsu is Tobi's "henchman".

Shadow Lucario
28th April 2009, 7:01 AM
I thought we would see it when he was about to take it off when he was talking to Sasuke.

Alloute
28th April 2009, 7:03 AM
I thought we would see it when he was about to take it off when he was talking to Sasuke.

That plot twist made me red with rage. So close to seeing the infamous face!

No new chapter this week people, though I'm sure you know.

Kamex
28th April 2009, 7:05 AM
Does anyone know who Tobi really is? Is he Obito, Madara, Izuna, Shisui, or the Mizukage?!
I used to think it made a lot of sense for him to be Obito, and I still wouldn't be surprised if he turns out to be using his body with some special jutsu or something... and I never heard of an Izuna or Shisui theory.

But I thought it was pretty much confirmed that he is both Madara AND a Mizukage at some point...

Unless you think he's lying...?

Shadow Lucario
28th April 2009, 7:05 AM
That made me mad.

I am going to be sad this week. :'( I have to wait another week to find out what happens with Nagato and Naruto

Illusione-Tempus
28th April 2009, 7:15 AM
Actually I thought Tobi "will" be Madara... It's just a feeling

Shadow Lucario
28th April 2009, 7:19 AM
What I want to know is if he is Madara then why haven't we seen his face? If we already know his identity then why hide his face? It makes no sense

Kamex
28th April 2009, 7:25 AM
Actually I thought Tobi "will" be Madara... It's just a feeling
Like he'll become him? Through some kind of transformation or something?


What I want to know is if he is Madara then why haven't we seen his face? If we already know his identity then why hide his face? It makes no sense
We so part of his face. He had those bags under his eyes like the real Madara... maybe he's like a combination of several different people.

I don't know. -_-

Kirby
28th April 2009, 7:32 AM
I think he is either Madara or Obito. He has the Sharingan so he has to be an Uchiha

I didn't know Kakashi was now an Uchiha too.

PS, I in no way think Tobi isn't an Uchiha, and while 99&#37; of the time someone with the Sharingan is an Uchiha, it doesn't always apply. And to everyone who states the obvious of "WELL HE HAS ONE SHARINGAN LOL!!!" Tobi has only shown us one Sharingan, his other eye is hidden.

Shadow Lucario
28th April 2009, 7:36 AM
I didn't know Kakashi was now an Uchiha too.

Why you gotta bring me down? Just kidding. :P I don't think there was any other case where an Uchiha gave their Sharingan to a non-Uchiha, at least we haven't heard of another one.

Kirby
28th April 2009, 7:43 AM
Why you gotta bring me down? Just kidding. :P I don't think there was any other case where an Uchiha gave their Sharingan to a non-Uchiha, at least we haven't heard of another one.

Sorry I just had to say it :P Granted, he looks nothing at all like an Uchiha but still, it was just so tempting.

I am curious to know more about Tobi, and also Zetsu. I couldn't care less about Nagato, but I would like to know more about Yahiko and how he died, sucks there is no chapter this week :U

Shadow Lucario
28th April 2009, 7:47 AM
Sorry I just had to say it :P Granted, he looks nothing at all like an Uchiha but still, it was just so tempting.

I am curious to know more about Tobi, and also Zetsu. I couldn't care less about Nagato, but I would like to know more about Yahiko and how he died, sucks there is no chapter this week :U

I wonder how much gel Kakashi uses to get his hair to defy gravity like that.

I want to know what Zetsu can do. All we've seen him doing is peeping on people and going to collect the corpses of dead Akatsuki members. Tobi I want to know about too. How can he make things go through him? Yahiko is also something I want to learn about. I think we'll learn about him next week, hopefully

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
28th April 2009, 12:56 PM
Main things I want to know:
- Rin. What happened with her?
- Yahiko. Bet we'll find out though
- Zetsu. He's about as ignored as Tenten.

Oh, and Tobi IS Madara. Tobi even appeared before Sasuke, as the Madara personality.

Shadow Lucario
28th April 2009, 2:06 PM
Oh, and Tobi IS Madara. Tobi even appeared before Sasuke, as the Madara personality.

Then how come he still wears the mask? Kind of stupid to wear a mask if we know who he is :/

Electivirus
28th April 2009, 3:11 PM
If Konan does get raped as a kid will that be shown in the manga? Child rape was mentioned in Berserk so who knows about Naruto.

uber gon...*sigh*

Oh no, Nagato's parents were killed...seriously, at this point, his story's no sadder than Haku's.

Kishi's gonna have to reveal a lot more to make me feel sorry for Nagato, especially considering all the tearjerkers in this manga. :/

Firekit
28th April 2009, 3:58 PM
Who should be the next hokaga? naruto or neji?

rockete
28th April 2009, 5:09 PM
Who should be the next hokaga? naruto or neji?

Naruto of course.Why Neji ?
I mean Naruto is stronger then the 4th hokage now.

Torterra12
28th April 2009, 5:13 PM
i feel really sorry for Nagato even thought he destroyed konoha does any one else feel sorry for him

rockete
28th April 2009, 6:03 PM
Well I do.He suffered the ninja war too but he believes in his way, and Naruto on his.Nagato had some very thoughtful speeches, though.

HoennMaster
28th April 2009, 7:18 PM
Then how come he still wears the mask? Kind of stupid to wear a mask if we know who he is :/

We don't know. We just know that Tobi is Madara, and was once a Mizukage.

rockete
28th April 2009, 7:28 PM
Then how come he still wears the mask? Kind of stupid to wear a mask if we know who he is :/

Well Kakashi wears a mask also, but we know who he is and we have some pictures of him withought mask.
I have a question.
How come all of Pains 5 bodies were bodies from battles that Jiraiya fought ? I mean where does Pain know exactly who to get and from where ? He wasn't skilled enough to do such a thing when Jiraiya killed them (he was a kid)...

uber gon
28th April 2009, 9:22 PM
Wonder if Pain ever got a new dog? Heh, maybe another dog is at Pain's headquarters or something.

Alloute
28th April 2009, 9:26 PM
We don't know. We just know that Tobi is Madara, and was once a Mizukage.

Hun, don't assume that Tobi is Madara, we still have a long way to go.

Shadow Lucario
28th April 2009, 10:59 PM
You know what they say about assuming XD I hope we find out what happened to Rin and Kushina. On another note, I don't think Naruto is stronger than the fourth yet. If a fight were to happen between the two all Minato has to do is use Flying Thunder God and it's done.

shiny gible
28th April 2009, 11:06 PM
I know Minato could just use the Flying Thunder God on Naruto, but when he uses it he could hit a shadow clone then Naruto could get a good shot in like he did when he punched his dad in the gut. I mean you saw Minato's face that punch must've hurt lol

Shadow Lucario
28th April 2009, 11:11 PM
The Flying Thunder God is too fast to react to. Minato killed a group of maybe thirty Shinobi in about four seconds without getting a scratch. No one can make a Bunshin that fast.

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
28th April 2009, 11:17 PM
Pain was shown taking orders from Tobi, Minato told Naruto that Tobi controlled the fox, Tobi (in the Madara persona) told Sasuke that Madara controlled the fox, and also displayed secret knowledge about the sharingan, such as the eternal sharingan that only he is said to have mastered. Which means, Tobi is Madara, how else would he get a sharingan, which he also appears to have some knowledge about, talking about how powerful Sasuke and Itachi's are during his introduction as the leader? It'd be pointless to have the Obito plot twist now, as Kakashi is dead.

http://manga1.mangavide.com/Naruto/364/Naruto_364_18_1218815011.jpg
Tobi: The Sharingan's true power, my power, Madara Uchiha's power.

and Itachi has said the only three people still alive able to use the Mangekyo Sharingan were Sasuke, Madara and himself (but obviously now Itachi is dead), and Itachi has said during his fight with Sasuke that Madara is still alive, and with all the Uchiha but Sasuke and Madara dead, and with Tobi having a sharingan, it is really obvious.

Shadow Lucario
28th April 2009, 11:28 PM
Then why only have one eyehole? It would be pointless to have a mask with one eyehole if you have two eyes. It also seems to be a huge coincidence that the eyehole is on the left and that is the only eye Obito has. Also there is what I said before about his mask. Why wear it when we know who you are and what your face looks like? He also bears a striking resembelance to Obito when he was about to take off his mask while talking to Sasuke.

Tobi is a mystery so I think we shouldn't say anything for sure yet until we see his face. There is also a possibility that he is controlling Obito's body with a Jutsu similar to the Six Paths of Pain. So we should not say anything is definite until it is confirmed like we are with Kakashi *glares at Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior*

So did Naruto's mom run away when the fox was sealed in him or what? If she did she is a female dog!

Alloute
28th April 2009, 11:41 PM
Pain was shown taking orders from Tobi, Minato told Naruto that Tobi controlled the fox, Tobi (in the Madara persona) told Sasuke that Madara controlled the fox, and also displayed secret knowledge about the sharingan, such as the eternal sharingan that only he is said to have mastered. Which means, Tobi is Madara, how else would he get a sharingan, which he also appears to have some knowledge about, talking about how powerful Sasuke and Itachi's are during his introduction as the leader? It'd be pointless to have the Obito plot twist now, as Kakashi is dead.

http://manga1.mangavide.com/Naruto/364/Naruto_364_18_1218815011.jpg
Tobi: The Sharingan's true power, my power, Madara Uchiha's power.

and Itachi has said the only three people still alive able to use the Mangekyo Sharingan were Sasuke, Madara and himself (but obviously now Itachi is dead), and Itachi has said during his fight with Sasuke that Madara is still alive, and with all the Uchiha but Sasuke and Madara dead, and with Tobi having a sharingan, it is really obvious.

Hun, this doesn't prove a thing sorry.

Madara MIGHT be Tobi, but it isn't confirmed. There are other Uchiha who could still be alive, re-read the manga and search for the clues^_^

Kakashi isn't dead, it hasn't been confirmed at all so far, let's not get to ahead of ourselves.

I DON'T think that Obito is Tobi, despite the similarities.

Shadow Lucario
28th April 2009, 11:46 PM
I forgot where I saw it but it said there was a possibility of Tobi being Danzou >.> I would laugh if this was true.

uber gon
29th April 2009, 12:10 AM
I forgot where I saw it but it said there was a possibility of Tobi being Danzou >.> I would laugh if this was true.

That would be kinda sad. I mean I doubt Tobi would EVER be anything like Danzou.

TsukiMirage
29th April 2009, 12:21 AM
Then why only have one eyehole? It would be pointless to have a mask with one eyehole if you have two eyes. It also seems to be a huge coincidence that the eyehole is on the left and that is the only eye Obito has. Also there is what I said before about his mask. Why wear it when we know who you are and what your face looks like? He also bears a striking resembelance to Obito when he was about to take off his mask while talking to Sasuke.

Tobi is a mystery so I think we shouldn't say anything for sure yet until we see his face. There is also a possibility that he is controlling Obito's body with a Jutsu similar to the Six Paths of Pain. So we should not say anything is definite until it is confirmed like we are with Kakashi *glares at Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior*

So did Naruto's mom run away when the fox was sealed in him or what? If she did she is a female dog!
There are so many things wrong here...
First off, Obito is dead. He was crushed. Even if you ignore the fact that Nagato needs flesh corpses to revive and Obito was long since decayed, Tobi is taller then Obito was, Which is impossible if they were the same person since dead bodies can't grow. They also do not look alike. Nothing shown of Tobi bares any resemblance to Obito. Tobi is clearly older then Obito was and a corpse can't age. Corpses also can't grow their hair out, As seen in Itachi's flashback. There's also the fact that he was Mizukage before Obito's death.

Second off, Tobi wears a mask so that we the readers don't know his identity. The whole right eye thing is silly, Since several characters have been shown to show one eye even before Shippuden. Tobi probably only uses one eye so that he can reserve his chakra, Since his Sharingan is always on.

Finally, It has already been confirmed that Tobi is Madara. And since Madara never died, He would have no need for a crushed corpse.

Shadow Lucario
29th April 2009, 1:03 AM
There are so many things wrong here...
First off, Obito is dead. He was crushed. Even if you ignore the fact that Nagato needs flesh corpses to revive and Obito was long since decayed, Tobi is taller then Obito was, Which is impossible if they were the same person since dead bodies can't grow. They also do not look alike. Nothing shown of Tobi bares any resemblance to Obito. Tobi is clearly older then Obito was and a corpse can't age. Corpses also can't grow their hair out, As seen in Itachi's flashback. There's also the fact that he was Mizukage before Obito's death.

Second off, Tobi wears a mask so that we the readers don't know his identity. The whole right eye thing is silly, Since several characters have been shown to show one eye even before Shippuden. Tobi probably only uses one eye so that he can reserve his chakra, Since his Sharingan is always on.

Finally, It has already been confirmed that Tobi is Madara. And since Madara never died, He would have no need for a crushed corpse.

Who says Obito died? We just saw his body under a boulder, not a lifeless corpse. Saying everything I said is wrong is ignorant and makes you seem arrogant. I even said in my post "MIGHT". Besides, my guess is as good as anyone's. Look at when Tobi takes off part of his mask when talking to Sasuke. If that doesn't look like Obito then you are either blind or you have vision problems.

Contradicting yourself is oh so fun. You say Tobi wears a mask so we don't know his identity, yet you say he is Madara. Choose a side. Do we know his identity or not? Why would he cover one eye with Sharingan and keep one out? On a similar subject, why would he cover up his Sharingan when he can deactivate it?

Alloute
29th April 2009, 1:24 AM
There are so many things wrong here...
First off, Obito is dead. He was crushed. Even if you ignore the fact that Nagato needs flesh corpses to revive and Obito was long since decayed, Tobi is taller then Obito was, Which is impossible if they were the same person since dead bodies can't grow. They also do not look alike. Nothing shown of Tobi bares any resemblance to Obito. Tobi is clearly older then Obito was and a corpse can't age. Corpses also can't grow their hair out, As seen in Itachi's flashback. There's also the fact that he was Mizukage before Obito's death.

Second off, Tobi wears a mask so that we the readers don't know his identity. The whole right eye thing is silly, Since several characters have been shown to show one eye even before Shippuden. Tobi probably only uses one eye so that he can reserve his chakra, Since his Sharingan is always on.

Finally, It has already been confirmed that Tobi is Madara. And since Madara never died, He would have no need for a crushed corpse.

Your facts are WRONG^_^

It hasn't been confirmed that Tobi is Madara. You just said that Madara is Tobi and it's confirmed, yet you say that he wears a mask so we don't know who he is?

Also, in the 3rd Databook, TOBI and MADARA have different profiles, with different info!

TsukiMirage
29th April 2009, 1:52 AM
Who says Obito died? We just saw his body under a boulder, not a lifeless corpse. Saying everything I said is wrong is ignorant and makes you seem arrogant. I even said in my post "MIGHT". Besides, my guess is as good as anyone's. Look at when Tobi takes off part of his mask when talking to Sasuke. If that doesn't look like Obito then you are either blind or you have vision problems.

Contradicting yourself is oh so fun. You say Tobi wears a mask so we don't know his identity, yet you say he is Madara. Choose a side. Do we know his identity or not? Why would he cover one eye with Sharingan and keep one out? On a similar subject, why would he cover up his Sharingan when he can deactivate it?
Sorry for sounding arrogant, But I hate arguing things already stated in the manga.

So you believe Obito gave up an eye and play dead because? What possible reason would he have for doing that. And why say he's Madara? Obito was a subpar ninja. An average chuunin. He wasn't impressive in any way. Heck, He didn't gain his Sharingan until moments before his death. Then there's the fact that you can't control the Kyuubi without MS and Obito had no way to gain it, Not to mention EMS. But you believe that not only did Obito gain MS in the few month after his death to attack Konoha, Which Obito had no reason to do, but also became Mizukage ad gain control of Mizugakure. Not only that but also founded Akatsuki within that time? All with one eye? And that everything he told us about the beginning of Konoha and the Uchiha clan was a lie. Even their personalities are completely different.

No, I don't think he looks like Obito. From what we saw, He look more like Itachi or Danzo. Especially since Obito had no line on his face. If he was Obito, He wouldn't be that old. Tobi himself has stated that he's Madara. Covering both eyes would make you blind. You only need one eye to see. You seemly can't turn the Sharingan off once you achieve MS, As shown by Itachi.

Obito had no reason to either attack Konoha with the Kyuubi or help Itachi with exterminating his clansmen. The Obito=Tobi theory died once Tobi reveled himself as Madara. Now, If you wanted to believe Danzo was Madara, That I could go along with. But Obito as Tobi is too far of a stretch.


Your facts are WRONG^_^

It hasn't been confirmed that Tobi is Madara. You just said that Madara is Tobi and it's confirmed, yet you say that he wears a mask so we don't know who he is?

Also, in the 3rd Databook, TOBI and MADARA have different profiles, with different info! It has been confirmed. Tobi himself has said that he's Madara. After Sasuke learned the truth, No one referred to Madara as Tobi anymore. Everyone calls him by Madara now.

As for that Databook, That was before he revealed himself as Madara.

Shadow Lucario
29th April 2009, 2:27 AM
After Itachi activated his Mangekyou Sharingan his Sharingan deactivated. Sasuke also has the Mangekyou Sharingan and he doesn't always have his Sharingan active. Itachi kept his active because he felt like it.

I'm not saying Tobi is Obito, I'm saying that it is a possibility as I have said many times before -_- IF Tobi is Obito he could have gotten those wrinkles from being behind a mask for a long time or the fact his face got crushed by a boulder.

If Tobi is Madara wouldn't he look older? He would be at least 80 years old. Also, if Tobi is Madara then why did he have to join Akatsuki if he created it? That's like me starting a fan club and asking to join.

Right now I think Tobi is some nutjob that can't decide on one persona and needs to see a therapist

Horoika1
29th April 2009, 3:53 AM
Obito is dead. Now, if Madara used his body because of old age (Orochimaru-thingy) then that's another story.

Anyway, Obito is dead. Madara is Tobi because Tobi himself said it.

Shadow Lucario
29th April 2009, 3:54 AM
Obito is dead. Now, if Madara used his body because of old age (Orochimaru-thingy) then that's another story.

Anyway, Obito is dead. Madara is Tobi because Tobi himself said it.

Then tell me why he wears a mask if we know who he is and what his face looks like. Can you tell me that?

Horoika1
29th April 2009, 4:07 AM
Because it's deformed, because he wants to remain mysterious to his enemies? There's countless theories, but the Tobito theory should be buried.

The only way the Tobito theory has credibility is if Madara is using Obito's body because his original body has decomposed.

Shadow Lucario
29th April 2009, 4:18 AM
It's just as possible as any of those theories. Anything can happen. Telling somebody they are wrong when your theory hasn't been 100&#37; proven is not right.

Anyway, I thought Neji would be super ****** when he saw Hinata. Surprised he wasn't

Alloute
29th April 2009, 4:59 AM
It has been confirmed. Tobi himself has said that he's Madara. After Sasuke learned the truth, No one referred to Madara as Tobi anymore. Everyone calls him by Madara now.

As for that Databook, That was before he revealed himself as Madara.

No, he could be lying, people lie lol.

Madara has yet to actually prove that he is who he really says he is.

The databook was released AFTER he "revealed" himself.

Do the research and then come back^_^

Kamex
29th April 2009, 5:14 AM
Am I the only one who thinks Nagato's dog may still be alive? >_>

Anyway, it's too bad Jiraiya didn't learn or catch on to Yahiko and Nagato's dream of pretty much taking over the world one day in the three years he trained them... although perhaps he thought they were simply going to try to help the world in a more peaceful manner. I mean he did think that Nagato was the boy of legend because of his Rinnegan, right?

EDIT: Although at this point I think it's just Nagato that really let the whole playing God thing get to his head... we'll see.

Oh, and Neji was always one of my favorite characters, so I was disappointed to see him used so little despite his apparent skill. Why's he still hangin' around with his old team? Ditch them and become a hero in your own right! What's the point of being Jounin if you still do same old thing.


I have a question.
How come all of Pains 5 bodies were bodies from battles that Jiraiya fought ? I mean where does Pain know exactly who to get and from where ? He wasn't skilled enough to do such a thing when Jiraiya killed them (he was a kid)...
That's a good question. And I'm mainly curious about why he would do it... it seemed to me that he no longer had much concern for Jiraiya (seeing as he killed him without a second thought). Perhaps it has more to do with Jiraiya being a widely known ninja, and he simply happened to see all of them, though that would be a strange coincidence.

About the Tobi's identity thing... like I said before, I think it would be surprising if he weren't Madara, he must have something to do with the guy, if not be him entirely. And I still think the Obito theory is highly possible, especially if he is somehow using his body, seeing as he's a pretty fit 80-something year old. Though it doesn't have to be (and probably isn't) Pain's technique he'd be using.

In any case, just about everything concerning Tobi is up in the air at the moment. I mean he is most likely the ultimate villain of the entire series... I'm sure Kishimoto wants to keep everyone guessing about him for as long as possible. Whatever happens, I hope he throws in some interesting surprises. :)

EDIT:
If Tobi is Madara wouldn't he look older? He would be at least 80 years old. Also, if Tobi is Madara then why did he have to join Akatsuki if he created it? That's like me starting a fan club and asking to join.
Well obviously the people Tobi told is Madara think it's possible for him to be that old, and anything could happen. Plus I believe Tobi had his reasons for calling the shots behind Akatsuki in the background and being a part of the action first hand despite that was just a decision he made I suppose.

Of course, that's all assuming he really is Madara, but again, anything's possible for now.

Rashdan
29th April 2009, 6:25 AM
About the Obito is Tobi theory.

Wasn't Obito's right side completely shattered by whatever rock he was under? The likelihood that his sharingan survived that is pretty darn low, and if it had, there would be some visible scar over his eye ... which wasn't shown when his eye was revealed in the Manga.

And Tobi can let attacks pass through him using some kind of Space time jutsu to teleport parts of himself to a different dimension, and bring it back instantly. That was also explained to some extent in the Manga.

Oh and ... wrinkles aren't a by-product of getting your face crushed by a boulder. Getting crushed by a boulder can seriously disfigure a persons face to the point where they become barely recognizable.

Alloute
29th April 2009, 6:27 AM
About the Obito is Tobi theory.

Wasn't Obito's right side completely shattered by whatever rock he was under? The likelihood that his sharingan survived that is pretty darn low, and if it had, there would be some visible scar over his eye ... which wasn't shown when his eye was revealed in the Manga.

And Tobi can let attacks pass through him using some kind of Space time jutsu to teleport parts of himself to a different dimension, and bring it back instantly. That was also explained to some extent in the Manga.

I DON'T think that Obito is Tobi, I hope he isn't actually.

I think another Uchiha is Tobi, put the hints together, there's one Uchiha who was only mentioned, and who could be Tobi for sure.

HoennMaster
29th April 2009, 6:47 AM
This is so pointless. People are too stubborn.

Alloute
29th April 2009, 7:06 AM
This is so pointless. People are too stubborn.

That would include you? This is the anime discussion thread for Naruto is it not? This is what we do here.

Anyway, I wanted to see Naruto: Bonds but I hear it's bad, is that really true? Anything with Sasuke can't be bad^_^

Kamex
29th April 2009, 8:24 AM
Wasn't Obito's right side completely shattered by whatever rock he was under? The likelihood that his sharingan survived that is pretty darn low, and if it had, there would be some visible scar over his eye ... which wasn't shown when his eye was revealed in the Manga.
Who knows - maybe the Sharingan is resilient. And one part of the Obito theory is that Tobi's clothing seemed to suggest a highly damaged body...


Oh and ... wrinkles aren't a by-product of getting your face crushed by a boulder. Getting crushed by a boulder can seriously disfigure a persons face to the point where they become barely recognizable.
That's where a mask comes in handy, eh? :P

Actually, yes, those wrinkles did seem to be reminiscent of Madara's (except there were more, since he's old I guess)


Anything with Sasuke can't be bad^_^
Not according to a lot of people, lol (I don't dislike him much, though).

TsukiMirage
29th April 2009, 12:31 PM
After Itachi activated his Mangekyou Sharingan his Sharingan deactivated. Sasuke also has the Mangekyou Sharingan and he doesn't always have his Sharingan active. Itachi kept his active because he felt like it.

I'm not saying Tobi is Obito, I'm saying that it is a possibility as I have said many times before -_- IF Tobi is Obito he could have gotten those wrinkles from being behind a mask for a long time or the fact his face got crushed by a boulder.

If Tobi is Madara wouldn't he look older? He would be at least 80 years old. Also, if Tobi is Madara then why did he have to join Akatsuki if he created it? That's like me starting a fan club and asking to join.

Right now I think Tobi is some nutjob that can't decide on one persona and needs to see a therapist
So basically you believe not only was Madara lying about his identity, But so was Itachi, Nagato, Konan, Kisame, Sasuke, Jiraiya, Zetsu, And Minato too? I don't understand what's so hard to see. Tobi was a persona Madara used in order to keep Itachi from interfering with his plan. Once Itachi died, Madara dropped it, And no one referred to him as Tobi again.

He is Madara. The other characters say he's Madara. Kishimoto says he Madara. I don't see why it's so hard for you to accept the truth.

Kakuzu didn't look that old. Neither did Jiraiya, Orochimaru, Hanzo, The Raikage, Or Tsunade. The only guy who actually looked his age was the Third.

No, he could be lying, people lie lol.

Madara has yet to actually prove that he is who he really says he is.

The databook was released AFTER he "revealed" himself.

Do the research and then come back^_^

Why would he lie about being Madara? The majority of characters don't even know he existed, So there's no beneficent in using the name.

Exactly how does he prove he's himself? Fingerprints? DNA? Isn't it enough that not only him, But every other character referrers to him as Madara?

I have done my research. The third databook came out before Madara reveal himself and the history of the Uchiha clan to Sasuke, Book 43. The databook covers Book 28 to 42.

rockete
29th April 2009, 2:42 PM
That would include you? This is the anime discussion thread for Naruto is it not? This is what we do here.

Anyway, I wanted to see Naruto: Bonds but I hear it's bad, is that really true? Anything with Sasuke can't be bad^_^

Well I've watched the film 8 times actualy :p .I don't know about you guys but I liked it.

As for the topic.
He could be anyone.I mean does anyone in Akatsuki know who he realy is or he keeps a secret even from them.(that includes Pain.Even if Tobi told him what to do.)

still shinyless ^_^
29th April 2009, 5:56 PM
why doesnt everyone just let the series play itself out instead of coming up with theories (some more insane than others) and kinda spoling it for themselves (although some people might not mind) i kind of think tobi is madara,i cant think of any ways someone can live through being crushed by a BOULDER. but if he IS obito,then huge confusion.
but in the manga, WHERE IS THE REST OF AKATSUKI!? they seem so useless right now, i want some sasuke/naruto action

MarshtompMan
29th April 2009, 6:10 PM
If Tobi isn't Madara, then why would Kisame call him Madara when he ftook off his mask in front of him?

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
29th April 2009, 6:39 PM
Hun, this doesn't prove a thing sorry.

Madara MIGHT be Tobi, but it isn't confirmed. There are other Uchiha who could still be alive, re-read the manga and search for the clues^_^

Kakashi isn't dead, it hasn't been confirmed at all so far, let's not get to ahead of ourselves.

I DON'T think that Obito is Tobi, despite the similarities.

He said using the mangekyo sharingan one more time would kill him. He used it. He's been lifeless since.

When Naruto returned to Konoha in sage mode (where his chakra sensing is immense) he couldn't sense Kakashi's, when Naruto asked Tsunade if he was out on a mission, Tsunade was silent, and Naruto said "I understand..." also, she remained silent when asked my Choji if there was a chance Kakashi was alive, when she said there's a change she can save his Dad. Why, if there was at least a chance of him surviving?


I DON'T think that Obito is Tobi, I hope he isn't actually.

I think another Uchiha is Tobi, put the hints together, there's one Uchiha who was only mentioned, and who could be Tobi for sure.

Itachi told Sasuke that if he learned the mangekyo sharingan that would make THREE people able to use it...
1) Itachi (he said it when he was still alive)
2) Sasuke
3).....Madara!

As I quote:
Itachi: ...The truth is written there. Then there will be three alive who have obtained mangekyo sharingan."

Now, I understand that so far we have not yet seen Tobi use the Mangekyo Sharingan, HOWEVER, Madara is known to have told Itachi about how to use the Mangekyo Sharingan, and Itachi has stated that Madara helped him kill the Uchihas. Also, one of the secrets of the Sharingan was to control the tailed beasts, and guess what? Minato said Tobi summoned the fox to Konoha - but hey, he only recently joined Akatsuki after the Rescue Gaara arc, and if he had enough power to summon a freakin' fox that the Hokage had to give his life to seal, why wasn't he in the main rostra before? Madara's main reason for going covert was probably to hide the fact that he was still alive. Also, Kishimoto has already done the 'OMG AN UCHIHA WE ALL THOUGHT WAS DEAD IS ACTUALLY ALIVE' I HIGHLY doubt he'd do it again.

Also, it has been said that Madara helped Itachi kill the Uchiha clan, as by himself, Itachi couldn't have taken them all down. Tobi told him all of this, and as he was a relatively new member of Akatsuki (apparently) HOW would he know all these secrets of the Uchihas and Madara, that only Madara would have known?

uber gon
29th April 2009, 7:21 PM
Frankly I was hoping for a Sasuke+Naruto Rasengan. Since there wasn't one that kinda made the movie title blow.

HoennMaster
29th April 2009, 8:12 PM
That would include you? This is the anime discussion thread for Naruto is it not? This is what we do here.

I'm not even part of that discussion, and this thread is about the manga, not anime, that is why it is under the manga board.

Alloute
29th April 2009, 8:26 PM
If Tobi isn't Madara, then why would Kisame call him Madara when he ftook off his mask in front of him?

Because Kisame would not know any better, if Kisame met Tobi and Tobi said "My name is Madara", then Kisame would think Tobi is really Madara lol. For example: If we met in real life, and you said to me "My name is Tom", then I'd call you Tom, get it?

NOTE that Kisame said Mizukage BEFORE he said Madara.

TsukiMirage
29th April 2009, 9:04 PM
Because Kisame would not know any better, if Kisame met Tobi and Tobi said "My name is Madara", then Kisame would think Tobi is really Madara lol. For example: If we met in real life, and you said to me "My name is Tom", then I'd call you Tom, get it?

NOTE that Kisame said Mizukage BEFORE he said Madara.

Your example doesn't work. Kisame knew Madara as Tobi with the mask on. He never say his real name. Once he removed the mask, Kisame recognized him as the former Mizukage, Madara. It would be as if I wore a mask meeting you under a false name, But then took it off, And you recognized me and my real name.

Alloute
29th April 2009, 9:07 PM
He said using the mangekyo sharingan one more time would kill him. He used it. He's been lifeless since.

When Naruto returned to Konoha in sage mode (where his chakra sensing is immense) he couldn't sense Kakashi's, when Naruto asked Tsunade if he was out on a mission, Tsunade was silent, and Naruto said "I understand..." also, she remained silent when asked my Choji if there was a chance Kakashi was alive, when she said there's a change she can save his Dad. Why, if there was at least a chance of him surviving?



Itachi told Sasuke that if he learned the mangekyo sharingan that would make THREE people able to use it...
1) Itachi (he said it when he was still alive)
2) Sasuke
3).....Madara!

As I quote:
Itachi: ...The truth is written there. Then there will be three alive who have obtained mangekyo sharingan."

Now, I understand that so far we have not yet seen Tobi use the Mangekyo Sharingan, HOWEVER, Madara is known to have told Itachi about how to use the Mangekyo Sharingan, and Itachi has stated that Madara helped him kill the Uchihas. Also, one of the secrets of the Sharingan was to control the tailed beasts, and guess what? Minato said Tobi summoned the fox to Konoha - but hey, he only recently joined Akatsuki after the Rescue Gaara arc, and if he had enough power to summon a freakin' fox that the Hokage had to give his life to seal, why wasn't he in the main rostra before? Madara's main reason for going covert was probably to hide the fact that he was still alive. Also, Kishimoto has already done the 'OMG AN UCHIHA WE ALL THOUGHT WAS DEAD IS ACTUALLY ALIVE' I HIGHLY doubt he'd do it again.

Also, it has been said that Madara helped Itachi kill the Uchiha clan, as by himself, Itachi couldn't have taken them all down. Tobi told him all of this, and as he was a relatively new member of Akatsuki (apparently) HOW would he know all these secrets of the Uchihas and Madara, that only Madara would have known?

Again, as I stated, Tobi hasn't used the Mangekyo yet so don't assume he is Madara. I keep saying that I don't think Tobi is Obito!!!! Geez, put the clues together people, there is one other Uchiha who was considered to be the greatest apart from Madara and Izuna...

There is one person who would know about Madara, afterall Madara was infamous in the shinobi world, a lot of Uchiha's could have known about his past.

Rashdan
29th April 2009, 9:40 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/397/16/

could we get off the Tobi isn't Madara subject already?

~Heaven Help Us~
29th April 2009, 9:41 PM
why doesnt everyone just let the series play itself out instead of coming up with theories (some more insane than others) and kinda spoling it for themselves (although some people might not mind) i kind of think tobi is madara,i cant think of any ways someone can live through being crushed by a BOULDER. but if he IS obito,then huge confusion.
but in the manga, WHERE IS THE REST OF AKATSUKI!? they seem so useless right now, i want some sasuke/naruto action

Because then this topic would be boring.

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
29th April 2009, 9:45 PM
Again, as I stated, Tobi hasn't used the Mangekyo yet so don't assume he is Madara. I keep saying that I don't think Tobi is Obito!!!! Geez, put the clues together people, there is one other Uchiha who was considered to be the greatest apart from Madara and Izuna...

There is one person who would know about Madara, afterall Madara was infamous in the shinobi world, a lot of Uchiha's could have known about his past.

Thing is though, all but Madara and Sasuke are dead =3

Also, Kishimoto has already pulled the 'Uchiha believed to be dead' thing with Madara himself, doubt he'd do it AGAIN.

Tobi not being Madara is just as believable as Zetsu being Madara - why? Because Zetsu hasn't said anything about himself yet, and we know he's up to something =3

and Rashdan....that pretty move proves it.

as for the 'He could be lying' argument:

- When Jiraiya said his name was Jiraiya, he could have lied, his name could have been Princess Peach
- Minato might not have sealed the fox inside Naruto, everyone could be lying to him, in fact he is a fox (like in the original one-shot)
- Everyone could have lied to Naruto, they're not ninjas, they're pierrot
- The Akatsuki's goal of sealing the tailed beasts could be a lie, in fact they might just want to take over the pop tart industry
- Kakashi lied. He doesn't go to Obito's grave, he goes to the stone because underneath it is a secret dance club
- Minato might not be Naruto's father, but his older brother, and their real father is Pain.

Yeah you heard me. Any nonsense could be derived from the 'THEY IZ LYING' argument

=3

Shadow Lucario
29th April 2009, 11:29 PM
Actually, assuming Tobi is Madara, he has lied before. He said he didn't use the fox to attack Konoha and Minato said he did. I highly doubt Minato would lie to his own son about something like that. Also four people alive have been able to use Mangekyou Sharingan, so either Itachi didn't know or he was lying. Maybe he didn't even mean Tobi. Maybe the three were Sasuke, Itachi, and Kakashi. I doubt that because supposedly to get Mangekyou you have to see the most important person to you die.

Then that brings us to the question of how Kakashi obtained his Mangekyou Sharingan. Same thing can be said about Madara.

Before I said it is a possibility that Tobi is not Madra, not flat out that he is not. Last thing, I still think Kakashi is alive :) He will get up and go to the hospital after someone gives them their Chakra :) He will be in the hospital for a much longer period then he has before then go find a girl and make little Kakashis with her and die of old age :) Just saying, is all

Alloute
30th April 2009, 12:42 AM
Thing is though, all but Madara and Sasuke are dead =3

Also, Kishimoto has already pulled the 'Uchiha believed to be dead' thing with Madara himself, doubt he'd do it AGAIN.

Tobi not being Madara is just as believable as Zetsu being Madara - why? Because Zetsu hasn't said anything about himself yet, and we know he's up to something =3

and Rashdan....that pretty move proves it.

as for the 'He could be lying' argument:

- When Jiraiya said his name was Jiraiya, he could have lied, his name could have been Princess Peach
- Minato might not have sealed the fox inside Naruto, everyone could be lying to him, in fact he is a fox (like in the original one-shot)
- Everyone could have lied to Naruto, they're not ninjas, they're pierrot
- The Akatsuki's goal of sealing the tailed beasts could be a lie, in fact they might just want to take over the pop tart industry
- Kakashi lied. He doesn't go to Obito's grave, he goes to the stone because underneath it is a secret dance club
- Minato might not be Naruto's father, but his older brother, and their real father is Pain.

Yeah you heard me. Any nonsense could be derived from the 'THEY IZ LYING' argument

=3

Sweetheart, again listen to my theories BEFORE you post.

TOBI or "Madara" as you like to call him, lied about sending 9-tails to Konoha 16 years ago, he lied about not killing his Brother, and he could easily be lying about his true identity. Tobi IS A LIAR.

The author could easily reveal another Uchiha, TOBI could be another Uchiha, there is ONE who could EASILY be TOBI. Read the manga carefully and then think it through a little bit^_^

Who was the ONLY Uchiha to be mentioned who hasn't been SHOWN so far?

Kamex
30th April 2009, 1:20 AM
I doubt that because supposedly to get Mangekyou you have to see the most important person to you die.

Then that brings us to the question of how Kakashi obtained his Mangekyou Sharingan. Same thing can be said about Madara.
Perhaps it was Rin. I mean he did say everyone he knew well or was friends with died, or something to that effect.


The author could easily reveal another Uchiha, TOBI could be another Uchiha, there is ONE who could EASILY be TOBI. Read the manga carefully and then think it through a little bit^_^

Who was the ONLY Uchiha to be mentioned who hasn't been SHOWN so far?
Shisui? But I thought Itachi took care of him a long time ago, I don't think he would've lied about that... although I wouldn't know, because I never actually read the whole Itachi/Sasuke fight.


- Kakashi lied. He doesn't go to Obito's grave, he goes to the stone because underneath it is a secret dance club
Lol.

Rashdan
30th April 2009, 1:48 AM
Perhaps it was Rin. I mean he did say everyone he knew well or was friends with died, or something to that effect.
Kakashi developed the MS over the timeskip, so it wouldn't have been Rin, since he'd lost most, if not all, of his closest friends long before the timeskip. How he came up with it is a mystery.

@Alloute: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/404/02/

Alloute
30th April 2009, 2:01 AM
Kakashi developed the MS over the timeskip, so it wouldn't have been Rin, since he'd lost most, if not all, of his closest friends long before the timeskip. How he came up with it is a mystery.

@Alloute: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/404/02/

I HAVE EVERY NARUTO VOLUME IN ENGLISH AND I'VE READ EVERY CHAPTER IN JAPANESE, stop posting links lol, I've read those over 10 times^_^

Rin is dead, end of that thoery.

Rashdan
30th April 2009, 2:09 AM
Then exactly how many times are you going to keep saying Tobi might not be Madara?

Alloute
30th April 2009, 2:10 AM
Then exactly how many times are you going to keep saying Tobi might not be Madara?

I'll keep saying so (BECAUSE HE MIGHT NOT BE!), until the truth is revealed hun^_^

Now, I don't want to discuss this further, lets talk about another character...

Kamex
30th April 2009, 2:22 AM
Kakashi developed the MS over the timeskip, so it wouldn't have been Rin, since he'd lost most, if not all, of his closest friends long before the timeskip.
Heh, I can't believe I overlooked that. Pretend I never mentioned Rin. :)


Now, I don't want to discuss this further, lets talk about another character...
How about Zetsu? If there's one thing we can all agree on, it's that Zetsu is probably calling the shots behind Akatsuki.

Am I right or am I right?

Alloute
30th April 2009, 2:26 AM
How about Zetsu? If there's one thing we can all agree on, it's that Zetsu is probably calling the shots behind Akatsuki.

Am I right or am I right?

I don't know....he is not too bright. He seems more concerned about helping Tobi than anything else.

I wonder what village he is from?

Kamex
30th April 2009, 2:35 AM
I don't know....he is not too bright. He seems more concerned about helping Tobi than anything else.

I wonder what village he is from?
Grass? Or maybe the Village Hidden in the Awesomeness.

Lol, seriously though, he's kind of in the same boat as Konan for me. Supposedly they're tough, but they don't seem to serve the purpose of straightforward battling. But I'm sure we'll see what they've got soon enough.

Alloute
30th April 2009, 2:52 AM
Grass? Or maybe the Village Hidden in the Awesomeness.

Lol, seriously though, he's kind of in the same boat as Konan for me. Supposedly they're tough, but they don't seem to serve the purpose of straightforward battling. But I'm sure we'll see what they've got soon enough.

Probably Grass but it isn't confirmed.

Konan is the weakest I think, paper burns so easily^_^

Zetsu uses too much defense, not enough offense.

MarshtompMan
30th April 2009, 3:05 AM
Well, Zetsu's village was left blank in the Databook, so I'm starting to suspect that he's a science experiment gone wrong.
Or a science experiment gone right.
Maybe he's not even a real ninja.
All we've seen him do is merge with the ground.

Alloute
30th April 2009, 3:07 AM
Zetsu might be from a little useless ninja village somewhere.

I wonder where Kushina is....

MarshtompMan
30th April 2009, 3:18 AM
Wait a second!
It all makes sense now!
Do you think it's just a coincidence that Zetsu got mad when Naruto called him Aloe Vera?
Zetsu is Naruto's mother and is the daughter of Kushina and the son of Killer Bee!

Alloute
30th April 2009, 3:26 AM
Wait a second!
It all makes sense now!
Do you think it's just a coincidence that Zetsu got mad when Naruto called him Aloe Vera?
Zetsu is Naruto's mother and is the daughter of Kushina and the son of Killer Bee!

Lol right for sure.

I think Kushina is alive, she was probably banished to the Land of Eddies rofl!

Killer Bee is also an interesting specimen, I want to hear his story told!

MarshtompMan
30th April 2009, 3:50 AM
Remember, the 4th Hokage is Naruto's father, so now anything's possible.

Kirby
30th April 2009, 4:47 AM
- When Jiraiya said his name was Jiraiya, he could have lied, his name could have been Princess Peach
- Minato might not have sealed the fox inside Naruto, everyone could be lying to him, in fact he is a fox (like in the original one-shot)
- Everyone could have lied to Naruto, they're not ninjas, they're pierrot
- The Akatsuki's goal of sealing the tailed beasts could be a lie, in fact they might just want to take over the pop tart industry
- Kakashi lied. He doesn't go to Obito's grave, he goes to the stone because underneath it is a secret dance club
- Minato might not be Naruto's father, but his older brother, and their real father is Pain.

Yeah you heard me. Any nonsense could be derived from the 'THEY IZ LYING' argument

=3

You do realize that those reasons, while humorous, are absolutely horrible if you're trying to prove anything, right? Though I guess that's pretty obvious, but then again...

Shadow Lucario
30th April 2009, 4:51 AM
I know how to defeat Konan! I'll have my Squirtle use Water Gun on her! Seriously, is she made of paper or is that just her Jutsu?

I've always wondered, since Zetsu is two different people, technically, if he pleasures himself, is that gay? XD

Rashdan
30th April 2009, 5:30 AM
Wetting Konan with water/oil makes it impossible for her to use her techniques, so no, she's not made out of paper.

(I realize "Wetting Konan" might come out sounding wrong) XD

As for Zetsu, no comment. ;o