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Alloute
30th April 2009, 6:59 AM
Wetting Konan with water/oil makes it impossible for her to use her techniques, so no, she's not made out of paper.

(I realize "Wetting Konan" might come out sounding wrong) XD

As for Zetsu, no comment. ;o

Wetting her with oil/water while she is in her paper form makes her jutsu useless.

Zetsu eats people, he's so gross.

TsukiMirage
30th April 2009, 7:41 AM
Konan's bunshin is only weak against water/oil. I was shown in the flashback that She could use her paper jutsus in the rain.

There's nothing else to really talk about since it'll be two weeks until the new chapter. Anyhow...


Sweetheart, again listen to my theories BEFORE you post.

TOBI or "Madara" as you like to call him, lied about sending 9-tails to Konoha 16 years ago, he lied about not killing his Brother, and he could easily be lying about his true identity. Tobi IS A LIAR.

The author could easily reveal another Uchiha, TOBI could be another Uchiha, there is ONE who could EASILY be TOBI. Read the manga carefully and then think it through a little bit^_^

Who was the ONLY Uchiha to be mentioned who hasn't been SHOWN so far?

Madara didn't kill his brother. It was stated in the databook that Izuna died in battle sometime after.

It can't be Shisui cause they found his dead body. Unless you believe he somehow faked his death, Which would open up a whole can of worms. Itachi couldn't have gain his MS, Since he wasn't responsible for his friends death. Not to mention how on earth Itachi couldn't recognize his friend with the perception skills of the Sharingan. There's also the fact that Shisui couldn't have possesses MS, Or controlled the Kyuubi. Not to mention Shisui would have been 5 when the Kyuubi attacked Konoha, Unless you believe a 5 year old could have MS and show up one of the greatest Hokages. Then there's the founding of Akatsuki.

Why can't a character be who they say they are? Madara has been hinted at since Part One. Kakashi mention it when he arrived to get Naruto at VOTE. So did Itachi to Sasuke about the MS users. Then the Kyuubi spoke of him to Sasuke and Naruto. Plus the rest. There would be no reason to introduce him only to have him be another, Less powerful character.


Actually, assuming Tobi is Madara, he has lied before. He said he didn't use the fox to attack Konoha and Minato said he did. I highly doubt Minato would lie to his own son about something like that. Also four people alive have been able to use Mangekyou Sharingan, so either Itachi didn't know or he was lying. Maybe he didn't even mean Tobi. Maybe the three were Sasuke, Itachi, and Kakashi. I doubt that because supposedly to get Mangekyou you have to see the most important person to you die.

Then that brings us to the question of how Kakashi obtained his Mangekyou Sharingan. Same thing can be said about Madara.

Before I said it is a possibility that Tobi is not Madra, not flat out that he is not. Last thing, I still think Kakashi is alive :) He will get up and go to the hospital after someone gives them their Chakra :) He will be in the hospital for a much longer period then he has before then go find a girl and make little Kakashis with her and die of old age :) Just saying, is all

Admitting to attacking Konoha wouldn't have gotten Sasuke to join him, And as been shown, That's what everything he's done has been about. Madara sacrificed half of Akatsuki for him, So of course he wouldn't do anything to threaten that goal.

Itachi didn't learn Kakashi had MS until Team Kakashi w/ Chiyo met the Itachi clone and Kakashi made the remark about his eyes. Besides MS is hard to get. You can't really purposely go after it, Since wanting someone to be your best friend and later sacrificed them would cancel out the them being your best friend.

It's evident that Kakashi gain his MS over the time skip, Since he still wasn't about to use it right. Madara gained is from his association with his brother, But the details were totally given. It's assume that they push each out to their vary limits and it manifested. Apparently they were the only ones able to do this, Since the attempt by the others Uchihas only lead to great loses.

Honestly, Kakashi has outlived his usefulness. While it would be neat to see him confront Sasuke, So far shown, It would be pretty pointless.

Alloute
30th April 2009, 7:46 AM
^It's like talking to a child who is fond of quoting me lol...

Konan's paper form is weak against fire, unless paper can turn into steel. I like the whole concept of paper-style techniques.

TsukiMirage
30th April 2009, 8:46 AM
I don't think Konan was all that worry about the fire, I mean her expression didn't even change.

Alloute
30th April 2009, 8:52 AM
I don't think Konan was all that worry about the fire, I mean her expression didn't even change.

Yes and that worries me, her jutsu is stronger than I thought. Paper burns but her paper form isn't affected by flames...

Anyone think Konan is pulling the strings in the Akatsuki? lol

TsukiMirage
30th April 2009, 10:14 AM
How about this - What do you think Naruto's answer to Nagato will be? Do you think it'll actually be something good, Or just some childish answer?

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
30th April 2009, 4:55 PM
You do realize that those reasons, while humorous, are absolutely horrible if you're trying to prove anything, right? Though I guess that's pretty obvious, but then again...

The point was to show how saying 'a character lies' could lead to absolutely ridiculous statements, as if every logical thing they say is a lie, then every illogical thing they don't say could be true =3


Yes and that worries me, her jutsu is stronger than I thought. Paper burns but her paper form isn't affected by flames...

Anyone think Konan is pulling the strings in the Akatsuki? lol

Thing is with Konan's jutsu...paper cuts hurt like hell

Kirby
30th April 2009, 7:49 PM
The point was to show how saying 'a character lies' could lead to absolutely ridiculous statements, as if every logical thing they say is a lie, then every illogical thing they don't say could be true =3

Except the thing is Tobi hides under a mask, has yet to show us his true face with the exception of one eye, and has already lied in the past. He also has two databook entries, one for Tobi and one for his apparent true self, Madara. Whereas someone like Jiraiya doesn't hide behind anything and we know his true identity.

So really, while chances are Tobi is Madara, having someone state he isn't is hardly as ridiculous as those reasons you listed. Try harder if you're going to prove something.

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
30th April 2009, 8:43 PM
My point was to prove the ridiculousness of people saying there isn't a chance when Tobi has said it himself, and so have others (Minato wouldn't lie to his son would he?).

Okay then...
Under his mask, Kakashi is Princess Daisy. What happened is Princess Daisy and Princess Peach were at a tea party, and Princess Daisy got her eye poked out by Peach's fecking umbrella. Obito, who saw this gave his eye to Daisy before being crushed by rocks.

If you're wondering why Daisy was wearing guy clothes, a mask and on a shinobi mission...watch Romeo x Juliet, just swap Juliet with Daisy and Red Whirlwind with Shinobi. Makes perfect sense. And as for a tea party near the bridge? Well, there was a quiet little cafe there.

Kirby
30th April 2009, 9:29 PM
Come now, for that to be true Daisy would have had to have gotten a sex change.

You're just grasping at straws and kind of going off topic now though. At least get some real reasoning as opposed to something that is terribly illogical. It's not even funny anymore, just kind of dumb to be honest.

Rashdan
30th April 2009, 9:29 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/397/03/

We've actually seen a good half of Tobi's face, not just one eye.

Kirby
30th April 2009, 9:32 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/397/03/

We've actually seen a good half of Tobi's face, not just one eye.

Yes I am aware we've seen his wrinkled half face, however that doesn't state anything about his identity so I didn't mention it. His eye was what was important, not his wrinkles.

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
30th April 2009, 9:54 PM
Come now, for that to be true Daisy would have had to have gotten a sex change.

You're just grasping at straws and kind of going off topic now though. At least get some real reasoning as opposed to something that is terribly illogical. It's not even funny anymore, just kind of dumb to be honest.

Humour is in the eyes of the beholder. Also, I like straws....they make drinks last longer >>
But the illogical reasoning bit is actually relative to the discussion of Tobi not being Madara, not supplying any solid proof, just theories and hinting at evidence but not actually presenting it, that too is grasping at straws.

And I'm a bit petty so:
In Romeo x Juliet, Juliet masquerades as a boy called Odin, due to all of the Capulets being wiped out by Montague 14 years prior to the start of the story, however Juliet managed to escape so the Montagues are constantly hunting down the last surviving daughter - best way to hide that is to hide her gender. Think about it, in a circumstance similar to that, Daisy might have masqueraded as a guy, as for scenes of Kakashi topless (if there are any) = flat chest. :=3:

And now my insane Exam-stress-caused-randomness is over, back to srs time:

As for the argument for them not having the same databook page...
http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q419/Joshidreamwalker/048-UchihaMadara.jpg
(People had trouble loading the link, so I uploaded it to my photobucket)

OMG, on Madara's page...is that - Tobi's old mask I see? And the hair is the SAME! Oh noez!
I can't read Japanese to see what it actually says, but still =3

TsukiMirage
30th April 2009, 11:49 PM
Except the thing is Tobi hides under a mask, has yet to show us his true face with the exception of one eye, and has already lied in the past. He also has two databook entries, one for Tobi and one for his apparent true self, Madara. Whereas someone like Jiraiya doesn't hide behind anything and we know his true identity.

So really, while chances are Tobi is Madara, having someone state he isn't is hardly as ridiculous as those reasons you listed. Try harder if you're going to prove something.

When reading Naruto, Or any manga in general, You have to assume the author is telling the truth unless otherwise unproven. Since Kishi has had every other character say that he's Madara, There's no reason not to believe it.

Bad Theory
Tobi is Obito, Tobi is Shisui
Reason
All evidences point to them being different people.

Good Theory
Madara is connected to Danzo, Madara is Danzo
Reason
There are some good similarities, And so far, No evidences to counter.

MarshtompMan
30th April 2009, 11:58 PM
What I don't understand is that some people are saying that Tobi was lying, even though all the evidence points to it, but those same people believe that Tobi is Obito simply because of the eye and the name.
But I still think he's Tobi/Madara/Obito/Danzo/Tsunade.

Kamex
1st May 2009, 2:22 AM
But I still think he's Tobi/Madara/Obito/Danzo/Tsunade.
Lol, where did Tsunade come from? XD

MarshtompMan
1st May 2009, 3:39 AM
Lol, where did Tsunade come from? XD

Just because she had an age seal, doesn't mean she's not a human.
And like all humans, she came from her parents.

Shadow Lucario
1st May 2009, 3:52 AM
But I still think he's Tobi/Madara/Obito/Danzo/Tsunade.

So you think there is a possibility for him to be Obito too?

Alloute
1st May 2009, 4:01 AM
So you think there is a possibility for him to be Obito too?

....This is getting so old; let's talk about Pain or Minato^_^

MarshtompMan
1st May 2009, 4:03 AM
^Yes, I think it may be a possibility.
And I agree with Alloute.

Alloute
1st May 2009, 4:07 AM
Pain's dog died, so does that mean that it's death caused Nagato to go psycho?

And Yahiko was a little dictator, he wanted to rule the world rofl

Kamex
1st May 2009, 4:52 AM
Well actually we don't know for sure that Yahiko (or even Nagato for that matter) had anything like Akatsuki's twisted plans in mind when they first started dreaming. Not that their ideals could possibly have ended well, but I don't think they would have thought themselves to become villains.

Not that Pain or any other villain thinks of themself a villain, but yeah... I'm going in circles. O_o

Kirby
1st May 2009, 5:18 AM
When reading Naruto, Or any manga in general, You have to assume the author is telling the truth unless otherwise unproven. Since Kishi has had every other character say that he's Madara, There's no reason not to believe it.

Bad Theory
Tobi is Obito, Tobi is Shisui
Reason
All evidences point to them being different people.

Good Theory
Madara is connected to Danzo, Madara is Danzo
Reason
There are some good similarities, And so far, No evidences to counter.

Except I am not arguing that Tobi isn't Madara, if you had actually read any of my previous posts I even stated that chances are great that Tobi IS Madara. I am arguing that Tobi lying is more of a logical reason then Kakashi being Daisy, or Jiraiya lying about his identity.

The reason it's more logical is 1. Why would he continue to hide behind a mask if we, the reader, as well as apparently most or all (sorry, I don't memorize all the details) of Akatsuki know who he is. The second reason is obviously he is lying (just for clarification, I mean obviously as in this is obviously the second reason, not obviously he is lying).

Sorry, but I consider the above more logical then Kakashi being a character from an unrelated series, one that Kishi would probably be sued for using if he didn't gain permission from Nintendo.

Also, I know the story of Romeo and Juliet, it was boring and dire and I had to read it multiple times in high school. I don't care to hear it again, thanks :)

Again, just to restate what I said, I am NOT arguing that Tobi isn't Madara, please get that through your heads.

Anyways I am throwing in the white flag because I don't feel like debating this any longer. Thanks for keeping me entertained :]

TsukiMirage
1st May 2009, 5:39 AM
Except I am not arguing that Tobi isn't Madara, if you had actually read any of my previous posts I even stated that chances are great that Tobi IS Madara. I am arguing that Tobi lying is more of a logical reason then Kakashi being Daisy, or Jiraiya lying about his identity.

The reason it's more logical is 1. Why would he continue to hide behind a mask if we, the reader, as well as apparently most or all (sorry, I don't memorize all the details) of Akatsuki know who he is. The second reason is obviously he is lying.

Sorry, but I consider the above more logical then Kakashi being a character from an unrelated series, one that Kishi would probably be sued for using if he didn't gain permission from Nintendo.

Also, I know the story of Romeo and Juliet, it was boring and dire and I had to read it multiple times in high school. I don't care to hear it again, thanks :)

Again, just to restate what I said, I am NOT arguing that Tobi isn't Madara, please get that through your heads.

I never said you said anything like that. I was just pointing out that just because Madara hides his face doesn't mean he's lying about who he is. If that was the case, He could have just remain as Tobi. There's a reason for his face to be hidden, But that doesn't mean he's not who he says he is.


Pain's dog died, so does that mean that it's death caused Nagato to go psycho?

And Yahiko was a little dictator, he wanted to rule the world rofl
...You are joking about that dog thing right?

Yahiko doesn't want to become a dictator, He wants to become a god, Which is different.


Well actually we don't know for sure that Yahiko (or even Nagato for that matter) had anything like Akatsuki's twisted plans in mind when they first started dreaming. Not that their ideals could possibly have ended well, but I don't think they would have thought themselves to become villains.

Not that Pain or any other villain thinks of themself a villain, but yeah... I'm going in circles. O_o

Well, Nagato basically completed Yahiko's dream in Ame, Since the villagers revere him as a god. Presumably, Madara had Pain join and take the role of leader and then Pain generated his own idea as to how to bring peace.

How exactly would you characterize a villain? Someone who has different goals and beliefs? Someone who kills?

Kirby
1st May 2009, 5:45 AM
I never said you said anything like that. I was just pointing out that just because Madara hides his face doesn't mean he's lying about who he is. If that was the case, He could have just remain as Tobi. There's a reason for his face to be hidden, But that doesn't mean he's not who he says he is.

My mistake then, as you quoting me and then giving me reasons as to why Tobi isn't lying led me to believe that you actually thought I was arguing that he isn't Madara. My bad.

Alloute
1st May 2009, 6:39 AM
...You are joking about that dog thing right?

Yahiko doesn't want to become a dictator, He wants to become a god, Which is different.



God, dictator, psycho, same thing hun lol.

Anyways! Yahiko was a little more crazy than I thought, he reminds me of Light from Death Note, it's the same thing except without the notebook.

Shadow Lucario
1st May 2009, 7:15 AM
I want to know how Yahiko died. Was it in a random battle? Did Nagato do it on accident like with the Konoha ninja?

Alloute
1st May 2009, 7:30 AM
I want to know how Yahiko died. Was it in a random battle? Did Nagato do it on accident like with the Konoha ninja?

All will be revealed in next weeks chapter of Naruto: Pain's Revenge!

I want to know if they buried the dog^_^

Also, Konoha needs a makeover, ruins and rubble are so last year...

Shadow Lucario
1st May 2009, 7:32 AM
Ever notice when Konoha gets attacked it is always blown up? XD Hopefully we get to see Sasuke soon :D I want to see how he reacts when he finds out Pain beat him to his goal

Alloute
1st May 2009, 7:38 AM
Ever notice when Konoha gets attacked it is always blown up? XD Hopefully we get to see Sasuke soon :D I want to see how he reacts when he finds out Pain beat him to his goal

Konan is cool like that haha.

Omg, yes!!! He'll be so freakin' mad, it was his dream to destroy Konoha and the ones who hid the truth from him.

Shadow Lucario
1st May 2009, 7:40 AM
Well too slow. Now he can kill the elders without many people getting in the way XD The only person I see as a threat to Sasuke right now would be Naruto. No one else seems too intimidating

Alloute
1st May 2009, 7:42 AM
Well too slow. Now he can kill the elders without many people getting in the way XD The only person I see as a threat to Sasuke right now would be Naruto. No one else seems too intimidating

Tsunade is strong, Neji is a genius, Sakura is a power-house, Yamato has a few tricks left, and so on, Naruto isn't the only one who has improved.

Shadow Lucario
1st May 2009, 7:45 AM
Yeah, but do any of those people care about Sasuke? Sakura wouldn't be able to stop him, Neji would tell Naruto he has to do it(again), and Tenzo(Yamato) doesn't even know the kid :/

EDIT: And I think Tsunade has run out of Chakra now if memory serves me right

Alloute
1st May 2009, 7:59 AM
Yeah, but do any of those people care about Sasuke? Sakura wouldn't be able to stop him, Neji would tell Naruto he has to do it(again), and Tenzo(Yamato) doesn't even know the kid :/

EDIT: And I think Tsunade has run out of Chakra now if memory serves me right

Neji and Sasuke dislike each other, so who knows...

Tsunade will recover in a few days, she's a medical genius^_^

Shikamaru is the only other person who I believe is capable of defeating Sasuke.

TsukiMirage
1st May 2009, 8:19 AM
All will be revealed in next weeks chapter of Naruto: Pain's Revenge!

I want to know if they buried the dog^_^

Also, Konoha needs a makeover, ruins and rubble are so last year...

You mean the week after next.

Neji doesn't dislike Sasuke, Where you get that from? They barely had any contact. As for Shikamaru, He may be smart, But against Sasuke, He'll end up dead quick. Naruto's the only one who can counter Sasuke.

Alloute
1st May 2009, 8:54 AM
You mean the week after next.

Neji doesn't dislike Sasuke, Where you get that from? They barely had any contact. As for Shikamaru, He may be smart, But against Sasuke, He'll end up dead quick. Naruto's the only one who can counter Sasuke.

No hun, I mean next week^_^

When they first met, both of them showed signs of rivalry towards the other, Neji wanted to beat Sasuke and Sasuke wanted to beat Neji. If that isn't dislike then I don't know what is.

Perhaps, and perhaps not, it all depends on strategy.

TsukiMirage
1st May 2009, 9:20 AM
No hun, I mean next week^_^

When they first met, both of them showed signs of rivalry towards the other, Neji wanted to beat Sasuke and Sasuke wanted to beat Neji. If that isn't dislike then I don't know what is.

Perhaps, and perhaps not, it all depends on strategy.

Golden Week ends on the 5th of May. So there still won't be a chapter next week, Unless they do like last year and release on Sunday.

I don't remember Neji wanting to beat Sasuke or vice verse, All I remember was the comment about Neji being last year rookie of the year and Sasuke being the current one. Which chapter was it, Or volume?

Shikamaru's battle strategy involves two things to win; A beneficial location and knowing his opponent's full power. Shikamaru wouldn't be able to figure out Sasuke's abilities while in battle and with his ability to see chakra, Sasuke would be able to counter Shikamaru's jutsus. There's also the verity of Chidori jutsus Sasuke would use to counter Shikamaru. That's not taking in account Sasuke's speed and MS. Or the unstoppable Kirin.

Alloute
1st May 2009, 9:27 AM
Golden Week ends on the 5th of May. So there still won't be a chapter next week, Unless they do like last year and release on Sunday.

I don't remember Neji wanting to beat Sasuke or vice verse, All I remember was the comment about Neji being last year rookie of the year and Sasuke being the current one. Which chapter was it, Or volume?

Shikamaru's battle strategy involves two things to win; A beneficial location and knowing his opponent's full power. Shikamaru wouldn't be able to figure out Sasuke's abilities while in battle and with his ability to see chakra, Sasuke would be able to counter Shikamaru's jutsus. There's also the verity of Chidori jutsus Sasuke would use to counter Shikamaru. That's not taking in account Sasuke's speed and MS. Or the unstoppable Kirin.

According to OneManga there will be a chapter next week. On the 5th...

Sasuke wanted to prove himself to Lee, Naruto, Gaara, and Neji, specific chapters and volumes; I can't provide, but it's in the Chunin Exam Arc.

Right, but Kirin WASN'T unstoppable, Susano'o prevented the jutsu from killing Itachi, if I am being logical, Kirin wasn't so unstoppable. Also his Mangekyo Sharingan is losing it's light so it won't be too useful to Sasuke in battle, but you are right about the rest, my bad.

Kamex
1st May 2009, 9:36 AM
How exactly would you characterize a villain? Someone who has different goals and beliefs? Someone who kills?
Well in this case I meant someone who conducts their business and plans through whats commonly accepted as "wrong", at least in the point of view of the story. I was trying to say neither Yahiko nor Nagato planned on mass murder, breaking laws or anything complicated like that when they imagined what they did. Of course, anyone with true maturity knows they wouldn't be able to reach such an ambitious goal without terrible things happening along the way.

They just hadn't gotten to that level yet. Or so I imagine.

Shadow Lucario
1st May 2009, 9:56 AM
I don't think Shikamaru has a Jutsu that can stop Kirin. Not only that, but it is as fast as light, am I correct? To stop it you would have to possess both an even more powerful Jutsu and Sharingan. Just because he is going blind doesn't stop him from using Mangekyou Sharingan :D Amaterasu would end it quickly

TsukiMirage
1st May 2009, 12:31 PM
According to OneManga there will be a chapter next week. On the 5th...

Sasuke wanted to prove himself to Lee, Naruto, Gaara, and Neji, specific chapters and volumes; I can't provide, but it's in the Chunin Exam Arc.

Right, but Kirin WASN'T unstoppable, Susano'o prevented the jutsu from killing Itachi, if I am being logical, Kirin wasn't so unstoppable. Also his Mangekyo Sharingan is losing it's light so it won't be too useful to Sasuke in battle, but you are right about the rest, my bad.

After posting earlier, I checked Naruto Central and it said the same, But 2chan and NarutoFan said no. So I could be wrong.

An defensive jutsu like Susano is rare, Which is why Kishi had Naruto's Sage Mode so physically tough. As for his MS, Sasuke still has at least seven years before he ends up like Itachi.

Horoika1
1st May 2009, 2:10 PM
I see someone is looking into this Manga way too much. Remember, Kishi isn't writing for long complicated plot lines with 2M twists in it. Tobi = Madara. Obito = dead.

It's just plain and simple.

Blaziryu
1st May 2009, 2:11 PM
I'm starting to wonder on how Danzo & his men will play out in the story now that Naruto's effing Hokage-level now.

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
1st May 2009, 3:59 PM
I'm starting to wonder on how Danzo & his men will play out in the story now that Naruto's effing Hokage-level now.

Probably when Konoha rebuilds itself, all the elders will be dead except for Danzo, so he'll be made Hokage (or at least Tsunade will die). This will allow Danzo's reign of terror to begin. Danzo will then probably try and make a deal with Kabuto (as he once tried to do with Orochimaru), which will lead Sasuke to want to take down Danzo, while Naruto etc focus on finding more information on Madara/Madara himself. OR Danzo sends Yamato and maybe some other main characters to resume the Kabuto search that was abandoned due to 8-Tails Naruto, under the disguise of capturing him, when in fact he wants to make a deal, then Danzo's plot becomes known by Sai (probably him as he was a former subordinate), then Naruto and Sasuke take down Madara, with Naruto being named Hokage.

As for Killer Bee....hmm...maybe before Sasuke gets to get involved with the Danzo shiz, he is told the truth by Madara, so he goes to have a rematch with Killer Bee, thus distracting Sasuke while a Danzo and Kabuto arc happens.

uber gon
1st May 2009, 6:03 PM
Wonder if Naruto will come up with a complete *** pull jutsu after Nagato's story?

~Heaven Help Us~
1st May 2009, 6:11 PM
Shikamaru is the only other person who I believe is capable of defeating Sasuke.

Do you seriously think that? wow.

Naruto is the only that can defeat Sasuke.

Alloute
1st May 2009, 6:51 PM
Do you seriously think that? wow.

Naruto is the only that can defeat Sasuke.

Did you even bother to read my earlier posts hun? If you had taken the time to read them you'd have seen my list of characters whom I believe are able to stop Sasuke.

Last time I checked in Naruto Volume 26, Naruto LOST to Sasuke, in Volume 34, Naruto LOST to Sasuke again.

~Heaven Help Us~
1st May 2009, 7:25 PM
Did you even bother to read my earlier posts hun? If you had taken the time to read them you'd have seen my list of characters whom I believe are able to stop Sasuke.

Last time I checked in Naruto Volume 26, Naruto LOST to Sasuke, in Volume 34, Naruto LOST to Sasuke again.

Yeah but last time I checked, Naruto has gotten stronger with the Sage mode and all, so he can easily defeat Sasuke now. Well whatever, that's what you think, so i respect that.

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
1st May 2009, 7:42 PM
Naruto gained Sage Mode
Sasuke lost Curse Seal, but gained Mangekyo Sharingan

It'd be really interesting to see them both giving it their all again.

Rashdan
1st May 2009, 7:42 PM
Doesn't make a difference how many times Naruto lost to Sasuke. In sage mode, everyone else was out of his league, he has surpassed the Fourth, even surpassed Tsunade, even most of the adult Jonin admitted that. He's the only one who comes remotely close to fighting Sasuke now.

Shikamaru ... just no. Against an ordinary opponent, his strategy might work. Against the sharingan, which can see through almost everything, it won't work.

Neji is a possiblity, but we haven't seen much of his powers recently. He could be a match, but on the other hand, he might not be. It's more likely that Naruto surpassed him by light years, than Neji having some super-special power than can defeat Sasuke.

Alloute
1st May 2009, 8:55 PM
Doesn't make a difference how many times Naruto lost to Sasuke. In sage mode, everyone else was out of his league, he has surpassed the Fourth, even surpassed Tsunade, even most of the adult Jonin admitted that. He's the only one who comes remotely close to fighting Sasuke now.

Shikamaru ... just no. Against an ordinary opponent, his strategy might work. Against the sharingan, which can see through almost everything, it won't work.

Neji is a possiblity, but we haven't seen much of his powers recently. He could be a match, but on the other hand, he might not be. It's more likely that Naruto surpassed him by light years, than Neji having some super-special power than can defeat Sasuke.

Ah yay, no quotes this time^_^

Naruto gets stronger in one Arc, then he gets weaker in the next.

Examples: He trains with Jiraiya for more than 2 years and defeats the fake Itachi with Oodama Rasengan, but he can't defeat Orochimaru while in 4-tailed state, he can't even touch Sasuke after that. He trains to use elemental jutsu, and beats Kakuzu, but he loses to Tobi later. He trains to gain Senjutsu, but it fails against Pain and he has to resort to fighting Pain with clones and the Rasengan....

Basically, he gains power and loses it later in the series, Naruto is kind of useless. Sasuke has natural talent and could easily beat Naruto again.

TsukiMirage
1st May 2009, 11:35 PM
Guess I was wrong about there not being a chapter this week, But in my defense, So was 2chan and Naruto Fan.


The 1st part of the spoiler is just retelling of the past chapter, so it's not interesting

Then its gets interesting.

Jiraiya trained Nagato for a better use of the Rinnegan
Then they talk about the Shodai Rikudou Sennin.
Yahiko, Konan and Nagato decided to form a organization and fight with Konoha and Iwa Gakure.
The organization was so big Hanzou couldn't ignore it.
Iwa, Konoha, Suna and Yahiko's manage to have a ceasefire after years of battle.
That's when Hell began.

The one who awaited them at the place where the ceasefire was supposed to be negociated was Hanzou, who took
Konan was a hostage, and Danzou from Konoha's Anbu.

Konoha, and Iwa agreed on a fake ceasefire to bait Yahiko and assassinate him.
Hanzou expected his actions would make him a better candidate to the Hokage place.
Nagato refuses to tell anything about their organisation to Hanzou.
Then Yahiko takes Nagato's hands and commit suicide.
Pictures at MH.
So Danzo teamed up with Hanzou to deal with the organization the Ame trio made, And Nagato's second pain was killing his best friend. Seems like Kishi is trying to tie everything together and really push the whole Danzo=villain part. Hope we get some more on the Rinnegan.

P.S. Sasuke has and will always outclass Naruto. That's why Naruto has Itachi's gift to even the field.

Kamex
2nd May 2009, 2:08 AM
Naruto gets stronger in one Arc, then he gets weaker in the next.

Examples: He trains with Jiraiya for more than 2 years and defeats the fake Itachi with Oodama Rasengan, but he can't defeat Orochimaru while in 4-tailed state, he can't even touch Sasuke after that. He trains to use elemental jutsu, and beats Kakuzu, but he loses to Tobi later. He trains to gain Senjutsu, but it fails against Pain and he has to resort to fighting Pain with clones and the Rasengan....

Basically, he gains power and loses it later in the series, Naruto is kind of useless. Sasuke has natural talent and could easily beat Naruto again.
Well Tobi - especially if he's Madara - should be at a much higher level than Kakuzu, so it makes sense he wouldn't be able to beat him yet. And Pain's a lot tougher than Kakuzu also, so Senjutsu made him just about on par with him, so... it's not that he just keeps randomly getting weaker. It's that he faces stronger and stronger opponents as the series progesses.

EDIT: Oh, and those spoilers are insane. O_O I think I'll reserve judgement on the chapter until I've read it, though. :)

Shadow Lucario
2nd May 2009, 2:26 AM
I like how most people think Sasuke is stronger than Naruto :D If it came down to their most powerful Jutsu then Sasuke would win with either Kirin or Amaterasu. Both would hit Naruto before he hits the RasenShuriken, even if he threw it

TsukiMirage
2nd May 2009, 2:56 AM
I like how most people think Sasuke is stronger than Naruto :D If it came down to their most powerful Jutsu then Sasuke would win with either Kirin or Amaterasu. Both would hit Naruto before he hits the RasenShuriken, even if he threw it

It's not just that. Sasuke has been admitted to being faster then Naruto and has a much wider range of jutsus. Sasuke also doesn't have to "set-up" to use his strongest jutsus like Naruto does. Then there's the advantage of genjutsu that Sasuke has over Naruto, Who can't escape them on his own.

Shadow Lucario
2nd May 2009, 2:59 AM
Then he also doesn't just rush in like Naruto, his Taijutsu is better than Naruto's, and he has a calm attitude which helps him in battle as opposed to Naruto who gets angry and gets his butt whooped soon after XD

~Heaven Help Us~
2nd May 2009, 4:07 AM
Spoilers:
1 (http://edgarluvitug001.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/naruto446-a.jpg)
2 (http://edgarluvitug001.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/naruto446-b.jpg)
3 (http://edgarluvitug001.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/naruto446-c.jpg)
4 (http://edgarluvitug001.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/naruto446-d.jpg)

It seems that Yahiko wanted Nagato to kill him for some reason.

Rashdan
2nd May 2009, 4:41 AM
From the way I understand it, Kirin requires the presence of thunder clouds; if there aren't any, it would take just as much preparation to pull it off like the Rasenshuriken. Not to mention Wind based techniques have the advantage against lightning (as mentioned by Kakashi during the elemental training).

Amaterasu, on the other hand, has a huge impact on the user, whereas the Rasenshuriken no longer does.

TsukiMirage
2nd May 2009, 5:18 AM
Spoilers:
1 (http://edgarluvitug001.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/naruto446-a.jpg)
2 (http://edgarluvitug001.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/naruto446-b.jpg)
3 (http://edgarluvitug001.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/naruto446-c.jpg)
4 (http://edgarluvitug001.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/naruto446-d.jpg)

It seems that Yahiko wanted Nagato to kill him for some reason.

Hanzou had taken Konan hostage and wanted Yahiko and Nagato to fight to the death. Yahiko sacrificed himself to save Konan by stabbing himself on Nagato's kunai.

Shadow Lucario
2nd May 2009, 5:19 AM
Sasuke can just fire a strong Katon Jutsu into the sky like Great Dragon Technique to create thunderclouds and the in the blink of an eye Naruto is dead, or as Sasuke would say, "Begone with the thunderclap..."

Alloute
2nd May 2009, 6:17 AM
Sasuke can just fire a strong Katon Jutsu into the sky like Great Dragon Technique to create thunderclouds and the in the blink of an eye Naruto is dead, or as Sasuke would say, "Begone with the thunderclap..."

No no no hun, read the manga again, it takes a LOT of heat to produce clouds for Kirin, he'd need Amaterasu, Fire jutsu, and a little luck^_^

And no, even with his chakra, he cannot produce Kirin under normal conditions.

TsukiMirage
2nd May 2009, 6:18 AM
Sasuke can just fire a strong Katon Jutsu into the sky like Great Dragon Technique to create thunderclouds and the in the blink of an eye Naruto is dead, or as Sasuke would say, "Begone with the thunderclap..."

Sasuke doesn't necessary have to use his fire jutsu to set up a storm for Kirin. Sasuke only did that because he was low on chakra. He can use Kirin directly, Except it takes a lot of chakra.


No no no hun, read the manga again, it takes a LOT of heat to produce clouds for Kirin, he'd need Amaterasu, Fire jutsu, and a little luck^_^ It was shown that Sasuke doesn't need to create a storm before Kirin if he has enough chakra. Sasuke was gonna use on Naruto and group after their first meeting but Orochimaru stopped him.

Shadow Lucario
2nd May 2009, 6:59 AM
No no no hun, read the manga again, it takes a LOT of heat to produce clouds for Kirin, he'd need Amaterasu, Fire jutsu, and a little luck^_^

And no, even with his chakra, he cannot produce Kirin under normal conditions.

I read it on Onemanga a long time ago when the scan was put up and I just read it in English. Sasuke lured Itachi outside and used Great Dragon technique (which is one of the most powerful Katon techniques. It can punch through concrete) to create storm clouds and then used the lightning bolt to use Kirin. Tsuki Mirage is right. He was about to use it on Naruto and the group when they met up. Remember when he put his hand into the sky?

Alloute
2nd May 2009, 7:01 AM
I read it on Onemanga a long time ago when the scan was put up and I just read it in English. Sasuke lured Itachi outside and used Great Dragon technique (which is one of the most powerful Katon techniques. It can punch through concrete) to create storm clouds and then used the lightning bolt to use Kirin. Tsuki Mirage is right. He was about to use it on Naruto and the group when they met up. Remember when he put his hand into the sky?

Fond of quoting me? Then it's war!

No people, don't assume that Sasuke was going to use Kirin on Naruto's group, it could have been another jutsu, as crazy as it might sound, he knows powerful jutsu. You all assume way too much, let your minds take a break^_^

Shadow Lucario
2nd May 2009, 7:03 AM
He was going to use the Ima-act-like-I's-gonna-kill-you Jutsu :P

Alloute
2nd May 2009, 7:06 AM
I doubt that...

He was probably going to either use Fire style jutsu FIRST or he was going to use Chidori Senbon, etc.

Go ahead and quote me to death^_^

Shadow Lucario
2nd May 2009, 7:16 AM
Well, he kinda raised his hand to the sky before he did anything else so I doubt it was a Katon Jutsu. He didn't form a Chidori so I don't think it was a variation of Chidori. Either Kirin or Kishi is holding out some awesome Jutsu on us. Kishi you better not be holding out on me!

Rashdan
2nd May 2009, 7:29 AM
I think in the Anime, Orochimaru said something along the lines of "There's no need to use THAT" ... so it would have to be some powerful technique. The only powerful lightning technique that's been introduced is Kirin, so it's a good chance Sasuke was going to use that.

And Alloute: you're one to tell us not to assume, when you assume just as much as everyone else does. In fact, everyone here is making assumptions, some of which turn out to be right, and some of which dont. In fact, by saying that, you're ASSUMING that Sasuke wasn't going to use Kirin.

Alloute
2nd May 2009, 7:35 AM
I think in the Anime, Orochimaru said something along the lines of "There's no need to use THAT" ... so it would have to be some powerful technique. The only powerful lightning technique that's been introduced is Kirin, so it's a good chance Sasuke was going to use that.

And Alloute: you're one to tell us not to assume, when you assume just as much as everyone else does. In fact, everyone here is making assumptions, some of which turn out to be right, and some of which dont. In fact, by saying that, you're ASSUMING that Sasuke wasn't going to use Kirin.

You may assume whatever you want hun, just don't start drowning me in your assumptions.

It's like everytime someone posts an assumption that is actually interesting, like "Tobi isn't Madara", we have people coming in and flooding this place with "You are wrong" spam. So let's take it easy^_^

Shadow Lucario
2nd May 2009, 7:47 AM
Anyone think those Cloud ninja will appear again soon?

TsukiMirage
2nd May 2009, 7:59 AM
I doubt that...

He was probably going to either use Fire style jutsu FIRST or he was going to use Chidori Senbon, etc.

Go ahead and quote me to death^_^

People assume Sasuke was gonna use Kirin because the hand sign he made before Ororchimaru stopped him was the same as the one he used to call down Kirin on Itachi. That sign hasn't been shown for anything else. There's also the fact that Kirin is Sasuke self-proclaimed strongest jutsu. If Sasuke had something else as powerful, He would have used it against Itachi.

Sasuke is far from dumb, And making an OHKO jutsu you can't use directly would be dumb.

Alloute
2nd May 2009, 8:33 AM
Anyone think those Cloud ninja will appear again soon?

Yes, in the next Arc: Nine-Tails Capture Arc

I love Killer Bee's students!

TsukiMirage
2nd May 2009, 10:08 AM
Well, We haven't seen Sasuke for a while, And judging from pass arcs, We've probably get an arc of Team Taka and the Kumonins.

Shadow Lucario
2nd May 2009, 10:13 AM
I'd like to see one of them square off against Sasuke. Then we can see what they can do against the Sharingan.

Rex Kamex
2nd May 2009, 6:47 PM
The one who awaited them at the place where the ceasefire was supposed to be negociated was Hanzou, who took
Konan was a hostage, and Danzou from Konoha's Anbu.

"Hanzou" and "Danzou"?

Anyway, volume 46 is out in Japan. Kinda weird how until this came out the American Jump had Naruto chapters that hadn't even made it into a graphic novel volume yet.

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
2nd May 2009, 7:16 PM
Now Naruto has caught up to the Japanese manga, what'll Viz ***** next?

btw, how far is the US SJ magazine?

MarshtompMan
2nd May 2009, 7:33 PM
The new issue of American SJ comes out in a few days, but last month the final chapter was when Kakashi used his remaining chakra and said "Obito...Rin...I guess this is it for me..." or something like that.
So next is when he meets his father in Deathland.

Horoika1
2nd May 2009, 7:42 PM
Is it Hanzou or Danzou? Idk if it's a mistranslation. It'd be better for conspiracy theorists if it were Danzou...

Alloute
2nd May 2009, 7:55 PM
Is it Hanzou or Danzou? Idk if it's a mistranslation. It'd be better for conspiracy theorists if it were Danzou...

It's both, both Hanzou AND Danzou appear in a flashback in this chapter.

MarshtompMan
2nd May 2009, 7:56 PM
^Isn't it both of them?
I'm still trying to figure out how Madara can be Tobi, Obito, Danzo, and Tsunade all at the same time.

EDIT
Beaten like a dead fish.

Alloute
2nd May 2009, 8:06 PM
^Isn't it both of them?
I'm still trying to figure out how Madara can be Tobi, Obito, Danzo, and Tsunade all at the same time.

EDIT
Beaten like a dead fish.

Omg, Madara isn't Danzou, Hanzou, Konan's Mom, Naruto's Doctor, Obito, or Tsunade!!

If Tobi isn't Madara, he is either Izuna or Shisui, but whatever...

Shadow Lucario
2nd May 2009, 9:18 PM
Don't assume Alloute :) I want to see the end of the talk. It's been goin on for too long

MarshtompMan
2nd May 2009, 9:27 PM
Omg, Madara isn't Danzou, Hanzou, Konan's Mom, Naruto's Doctor, Obito, or Tsunade!!

If Tobi isn't Madara, he is either Izuna or Shisui, but whatever...

Of course!
Being Naruto's doctor is great cover!
But him being Izuna or Shisui is just plain ridiculous.

Kamex
2nd May 2009, 9:30 PM
Nice cover. I was a bit disappointed Killer Bee wasn't showcased on a cover before... maybe later. I hope the next one has Sage Mode Naruto and/or 6-tails Naruto. And Pain, too, of course.

As much as I liked Naruto vs. Pain, and as much as I'm excited to hear the rest of Nagato's story and the end to their conflict, I feel like the suspense has been growing pretty steadily to see some of the other characters finally arrive at the demolished Konoha (yes, even Sasuke).

Rashdan
2nd May 2009, 11:00 PM
Onemanga is lying :(

"Announcement: Weekly Shonen Jump is not coming out in Japan this week. So there is no Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, DGrayMan, Eyeshield 21, Reborn and other WSJ series until next week. "

And I can't really read Japanese

E: Tobi being Shisui is totally ridiculous. Itachi definitely killed him to obtain the MS. As for Izuna, he died when/after Madara took his eyes, and they both got the MS through training.

Horoika1
3rd May 2009, 12:30 AM
I had to see the spoilers again: I finally see both Danzou and Hanzou.

Rex Kamex
3rd May 2009, 4:01 AM
The issue that's out right now is the Golden Week double issue. (Golden Week has to do with different holidays in Japan.) That Jump was released this past Monday (spoliers come a few days earlier) on the 27th, but there won't be one that's released this coming monday, the 4th. The next one will actually be realsed on the 11th. People are just getting spoilers for the Jump issue coming on the 11th a week in advance.

(This happened around the Christmas New Years time, as there were two double issues in a row, meaning that there'd be a Jump issue one week, no issue the next week, and then a second double issue the week after that, and no Jump the week after that. But what's been happening is that days after the first Jump I mentioned in this paragraph was released, there were spoilers for the second one, even though it would come a week after next.)

Man, this is confusing, but it does mean this: since we're getting spoilers on the Jump issue that'll come on the 11th, we won't get spoilers for the Jump issue after that during the week or the 3rd through 9th (which is either next week or this week, depending on when you read this).

...Yeah.

Alloute
3rd May 2009, 4:49 AM
Onemanga is lying :(

"Announcement: Weekly Shonen Jump is not coming out in Japan this week. So there is no Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, DGrayMan, Eyeshield 21, Reborn and other WSJ series until next week. "

And I can't really read Japanese

E: Tobi being Shisui is totally ridiculous. Itachi definitely killed him to obtain the MS. As for Izuna, he died when/after Madara took his eyes, and they both got the MS through training.

Lol here we go again hun.

Shisui used teleportation jutsu, Tobi uses teleportation jutsu, Shisui means "death water" or "still water", Mizukage means "Water Shadow"...

Can you see why people might think that?

Also, Itachi might not have killed him, he could have killed his "lover" instead. You don't need to kill your "best friend" to get the Mangekyo so yeah.

Rashdan
3rd May 2009, 5:19 AM
*yawn*

I fail to see why you keep blatantly ignoring the facts that the manga reveals, but whatever floats your boat.

Plain english:
When Sasuke first noticed Itachi's MS, it was on the day after Shisui "commited suicide", before the clan's massacre. It was revealed he killed his lover along with the rest of the clan, and killed Shisui to obtain the MS. Why else was he suspected of having a hand in Shisui's murder? And at one point, he also admits to "killing his best friend" to obtain the MS. While it is true that it doesn't have to be your best friend, but someone close to you, it's also obvious that Shisui was the one he killed, as mentioned many times. In fact, the person close to you doesn't have to be killed, they just have to witness their death, and pushed to the limits of their emotional capacity in order to unlock it.

And thanks Tsuki.

TsukiMirage
3rd May 2009, 5:21 AM
Lol here we go again hun.

Shisui used teleportation jutsu, Tobi uses teleportation jutsu, Shisui means "death water" or "still water", Mizukage means "Water Shadow"...

Can you see why people might think that?

Also, Itachi might not have killed him, he could have killed his "lover" instead. You don't need to kill your "best friend" to get the Mangekyo so yeah.
What about the other Uchiha's finding Shisui's body? Or Shisui being a child when the Kyuubi attack Konoha? Or the other plotholes that would open up?

Shadow Lucario
3rd May 2009, 6:54 AM
Didn't they find his body at the bottom of a lake or something? Why would he hide one of his Sharingan if he was Shisui? I know he was Itachi's best friend, but I don't think he cared for him like he did for Sasuke.

Rashdan
3rd May 2009, 7:11 AM
Actually, it was said that Itachi considered Shisui like a brother because they were that close. He did care for Sasuke more, but at the time, he was pretending not to.

TsukiMirage
3rd May 2009, 8:03 AM
Shisui was found in the river, His suicide? note on the bridge.

Kamex
3rd May 2009, 8:24 AM
I remember being extremely curious as to what Shisui looked like.

Still am, really. :/

TsukiMirage
3rd May 2009, 8:47 AM
Well, Unfortunately, Kishi has no reason to show us Shisui.

Shadow Lucario
3rd May 2009, 8:50 AM
I highly doubt that Itachi would bluff when he said he killed someone

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
3rd May 2009, 9:42 AM
Especially as the whole Shisui suicide WAS a cover up for his murder in the first place, why would he say the murder was a cover-up for him being Madara?


The new issue of American SJ comes out in a few days, but last month the final chapter was when Kakashi used his remaining chakra and said "Obito...Rin...I guess this is it for me..." or something like that.
So next is when he meets his father in Deathland.
Damn, they're there already? 0.0

The Doctor
3rd May 2009, 1:23 PM
Damn, they're there already? 0.0

My thoughts exactly. Now if they could just do that with One Piece.

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
3rd May 2009, 1:59 PM
Why did they decide to kidnap Naruto and force it into the sex industry so it could be r---d with continuous releases? Now what're Viz Media gonna ***** next? Bleach? One Piece?

I vote for Tegami Bachi (last issue of SJ I was able to get was the Tegami Bachi pilot, which also came with the Chimeratech Fortress Dragon YGO card)

Horoika1
3rd May 2009, 10:21 PM
What's so bad about the English Naruto catching up with the Japanese Naruto...?

Rashdan
3rd May 2009, 11:08 PM
What's so bad about the English Naruto catching up with the Japanese Naruto...?
++

I would be more worried if the Anime is catching up; as it so happens, the Anime isn't very far behind the manga. Oh well, more filler arcs.

Kamex
4th May 2009, 12:29 AM
I would be more worried if the Anime is catching up; as it so happens, the Anime isn't very far behind the manga. Oh well, more filler arcs.
Even though I'm not watching the anime, I like how they've simply taken a canon piece straight out of the manga and expanded it. So it's kind of only half filler. It just allows them to explore what would have happened if those small parts of the manga were fleshed out.

I mean it's better than completely random arcs in my opinion.

TsukiMirage
4th May 2009, 12:50 AM
What's so bad about the English Naruto catching up with the Japanese Naruto...?

It means one of two things; Either the japanese series is coming to an end soon or they're planning on stopping the american series.

Rashdan
4th May 2009, 12:56 AM
Even though I'm not watching the anime, I like how they've simply taken a canon piece straight out of the manga and expanded it. So it's kind of only half filler. It just allows them to explore what would have happened if those small parts of the manga were fleshed out.

I mean it's better than completely random arcs in my opinion.
True; at least the current arc is leading up to the next where Tobi and Deidara capture the Three tails.

@Tsuki: the Japanese series ending is pretty obvious. Kishi can still drag it out, but there's really only a few loose ends left to the series.

TsukiMirage
4th May 2009, 4:02 AM
Actually, I would be surprise if it ended very soon. Kishi has stated that he wanted Naruto to be at least as long as Dragon Ball, Which has 517 chapters. Which would give us at least 71 chapters to finish up.

MarshtompMan
4th May 2009, 4:55 AM
Yeah, there's still Kabutomaru, the remaining Akatsuki, Deoxys, Taka, and the Foundation left for Naruto to take on.

Rashdan
4th May 2009, 6:54 AM
Deoxys? Lol

Of the Akatsuki remaining, Tobi/Madara is the only real challenge. Zetsu, Kisame, and Konan are the only others left. Kabuto ... not sure. Doubt he's much of a challenge really, compared to Tobi anyways. As for Sasuke, he's the next big challenge.

It's only Madara and Sasuke that need to die/turn over to the light. The rest of the villains will probably die along the way. Naruto becomes Hokage. End of story.

I have a feeling that's how it'll end anyways. Saw it coming since Jiraiya fought Pain. (Or maybe when Sasuke defeated Itachi, can't remember when)

Alloute
4th May 2009, 7:50 AM
Deoxys? Lol

Of the Akatsuki remaining, Tobi/Madara is the only real challenge. Zetsu, Kisame, and Konan are the only others left. Kabuto ... not sure. Doubt he's much of a challenge really, compared to Tobi anyways. As for Sasuke, he's the next big challenge.

It's only Madara and Sasuke that need to die/turn over to the light. The rest of the villains will probably die along the way. Naruto becomes Hokage. End of story.

I have a feeling that's how it'll end anyways. Saw it coming since Jiraiya fought Pain. (Or maybe when Sasuke defeated Itachi, can't remember when)

Omg, Kisame is a challenge, he has the most chakra, meaning that he is strong and that he has vast amounts of jutsu availible to him. He's also Tobi's boyfriend apparently, so he must be stronger than we give him credit.

Zetsu hasn't fought, so let's not weed him out (get it?), he is Tobi's right-hand-man, so he must be good for things other than spying.

Konan is strong, but I consider her to be the weakest. Her paper jutsu are very easy to counter, the Abarame clan can handle her.

Kabuto is annoying, he has trickery and meds on his side...

TsukiMirage
4th May 2009, 8:08 AM
I doubt the remainder of Akatsuki will be tough. Kisame's a follower and I have a feeling Suigetsu will take him out. Zetsu could be impressive, But considering the past fate of the other members, I'm not getting my hopes up. As for Konan, I doubt she'll be a threat once Nagato's dealt with. At most she dies with him, Or she'll go off on her own. Kabuto could be cool, But he's after Sasuke, Which is basically an automatic lost.

I see the longest fight being between Naruto and Sasuke.

Alloute
4th May 2009, 8:10 AM
I doubt the remainder of Akatsuki will be tough. Kisame's a follower and I have a feeling Suigetsu will take him out. Zetsu could be impressive, But considering the past fate of the other members, I'm not getting my hopes up. As for Konan, I doubt she'll be a threat once Nagato's dealt with. At most she dies with him, Or she'll go off on her own. Kabuto could be cool, But he's after Sasuke, Which is basically an automatic lost.

I see the longest fight being between Naruto and Sasuke.

For sure, just trying to make a point.

I hope Konan doesn't die, she's been through too much, she needs to start over, maybe as the new origami teacher in Konoha? I smell a spin-off!!

TsukiMirage
4th May 2009, 10:15 AM
What I'm really looking forward to is the final fate of the 9 Bijuu. I really hope they're revealed soon.

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
4th May 2009, 12:58 PM
What's so bad about the English Naruto catching up with the Japanese Naruto...?

Not saying it's bad, just that it's weird, considering how behind we've always been.

and tbh, I find mini-fillers more boring than actual fillers...I watched all the pre-shippuden fillers, but the post-shippuden fillers bore me. The character designs for the villains are so unoriginal...

Rashdan
4th May 2009, 7:16 PM
I doubt the remainder of Akatsuki will be tough. Kisame's a follower and I have a feeling Suigetsu will take him out. Zetsu could be impressive, But considering the past fate of the other members, I'm not getting my hopes up. As for Konan, I doubt she'll be a threat once Nagato's dealt with. At most she dies with him, Or she'll go off on her own. Kabuto could be cool, But he's after Sasuke, Which is basically an automatic lost.

I see the longest fight being between Naruto and Sasuke.
Exactly what I meant.

'sides, I was comparing the rest of Akatsuki with Madara and Sasuke. As far as I can see, they're the 2 biggest threats right now. The rest are weaker by comparison, but I didn't say they were complete pushovers either.

About Kisame's chakra levels ... that doesn't guarantee he's invincible. Having a ton of chakra allows you access to stronger techniques, but that doesn't mean they're physically capable of said techniques. It may turn out that Kisame doesn't have that many strong techniques. Either way, compared to Madara, Kisame isn't a huge challenge.

MarshtompMan
4th May 2009, 10:06 PM
I hope Konan doesn't die, she's been through too much, she needs to start over, maybe as the new origami teacher in Konoha? I smell a spin-off!!

A spin-off? What, "Paper Roses"?
That'd be the theme song probably.

Mawile XD
4th May 2009, 10:07 PM
The way I see Konan's strength being is that if you can counter her, she'd be easy to beat. For somebody with no access to fire/water jutsu, or without special jutsu like the Aburames, Konan's impossible to fight, for she'd slice you to death.

No clue about Zetsu, but I'm sure he's strong, as Madara seems to rely on him a lot...

Madara's obviously the strongest, but it's hard to gauge his strength. We'll have to wait and see...

uber gon
5th May 2009, 1:47 AM
Wonder if we'll get to see the kids' life post-Jiraiya?

The Red
5th May 2009, 2:19 AM
After reading some spoilers, all I can say is this: thank goodness the death of his puppy wasn't the second pain.

Shadow Lucario
5th May 2009, 2:30 AM
I think his second pain is Yahiko's death. If not then I have no idea what it could be

TsukiMirage
5th May 2009, 3:13 AM
Nagato's second pain was Yahiko sacrificing himself for Nagato and Konan.

Alloute
5th May 2009, 3:33 AM
Yes Nagato's pains are losing his family and Yahiko's death....so obvious.

Paper Roses is an awesome idea!! I'll e-mail the idea to our manga producers lol.

TsukiMirage
5th May 2009, 4:29 AM
I would love to see more of the Ame trio after Jiraiya trained them.

Horoika1
5th May 2009, 4:32 AM
I think we're seeing it already, no?

TsukiMirage
5th May 2009, 5:20 AM
Well, I meant more of them battling as children. I liked the uniforms they had when they were training under Jiraiya.

Alloute
5th May 2009, 5:22 AM
The Ame orphans are so cute^_^

I want to see Nagato's jutsu, Jiraiya mentioned that Nagato could use 6 elements of chakra, that'd be interesting.

HoennMaster
5th May 2009, 7:56 AM
Looks like I missed a hell of a conversation while I was gone.


Damn, they're there already? 0.0

Yeah, looks like the mangas might be released close to simultaneously soon.


Not saying it's bad, just that it's weird, considering how behind we've always been.

and tbh, I find mini-fillers more boring than actual fillers...I watched all the pre-shippuden fillers, but the post-shippuden fillers bore me. The character designs for the villains are so unoriginal...

I like the current filler arc, interesting and strange all at the same time. Although Tobi, I mean Madara is kind of annoying in it. :)

CharlieSheen
5th May 2009, 1:01 PM
Has there been any "Real Deatails" on Kakashi's fate? It has been months since he was beaten!!!

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
5th May 2009, 6:19 PM
Nothing since Naruto returned to Konoha, couldn't sense Kakashi's chakra, asked if he was on a mission, and Tsunade was silent, with Naruto saying 'I see...' then proceeding to fight Pain.

I guess we'll see final confirmation once the Pain arc is over and Konoha have a funeral similar to the Third Hokage funeral, where it was a service to all who had died.

Alloute
5th May 2009, 7:43 PM
Has there been any "Real Deatails" on Kakashi's fate? It has been months since he was beaten!!!

No either he's dead of he's in a ninja coma like Sasuke was...

I doubt he's dead, apparently he's the only one who noticed Tobi's Sharingan so I doubt he'd just be killed off...

MarshtompMan
5th May 2009, 10:20 PM
According to SJ, starting with Volume 45 in July, the US volumes will be released quarterly.
And they might shorten the usual 5 chapters a month in SJ.

Shadow Lucario
6th May 2009, 2:18 AM
Hopefully Sasuke will appear soon. I want to see him kick Danzou's ***

uber gon
6th May 2009, 2:51 AM
Hopefully Sasuke will appear soon. I want to see him kick Danzou's ***

You and me both.

MarshtompMan
6th May 2009, 4:58 AM
^Same here.
But I don't really care who does it.
Maybe Konan meets Madara/Tobi and rips off his mask, exposing him as Obito on the right side and Danzo on the left side.
Then, he takes out his Tsunade mask, puts it on, and faces off against her.

uber gon
6th May 2009, 6:46 AM
^Same here.
But I don't really care who does it.
Maybe Konan meets Madara/Tobi and rips off his mask, exposing him as Obito on the right side and Danzo on the left side.


Wouldn't that be a bit of a Kabuto/Orochimaru rip-off?

HoennMaster
6th May 2009, 8:59 AM
According to SJ, starting with Volume 45 in July, the US volumes will be released quarterly.

Yeah, we've know for a few months now.

MarshtompMan
6th May 2009, 4:35 PM
^Well, some people thought it was ending in America.

TsukiMirage
6th May 2009, 5:45 PM
Why would they think that?

Shadow Lucario
7th May 2009, 12:00 AM
Probably because the anime does not come on Cartoon Network anymore

HoennMaster
7th May 2009, 8:33 AM
Still, we've known for months now that it wasn't, and considering how much they promote it, no one should have thought it.

Alloute
7th May 2009, 8:37 AM
What is going on? How could Sasuke, who has Sharingan, not see that the Killer Bee was a fake?!!!

Red1062
7th May 2009, 8:38 AM
Ok sorry might I ask who is Killer Bee? I really forgot.

Alloute
7th May 2009, 8:40 AM
Ok sorry might I ask who is Killer Bee? I really forgot.

That big muscular dude who is the Jinchuriki of the Eight-Tails. The guy who does corny rap...

Red1062
7th May 2009, 8:51 AM
That big muscular dude who is the Jinchuriki of the Eight-Tails. The guy who does corny rap...

Oh ok I guess maybe I'll go back a little and make sure who it is.

TsukiMirage
7th May 2009, 2:10 PM
What is going on? How could Sasuke, who has Sharingan, not see that the Killer Bee was a fake?!!!

Kirabi's clone was basically the same as a Kage Bunshin, Only tougher. That's why neither Sasuke or Madara could tell the difference.

Rashdan
7th May 2009, 7:26 PM
Kirabi's clone was basically the same as a Kage Bunshin, Only tougher. That's why neither Sasuke or Madara could tell the difference.

Actually, if it's anything like a Kage bunshin, both Sasuke and Madara would have been able to see it. Sasuke did mention that he knew which one was the real one all along while fighting Naruto at the end of Part 1. (At least, that's what the anime said, not sure if the Manga said the same thing).

I think it's more of a really powerful transformation technique exclusive to the Eight-tails. If it had been a regular transformation, they both would have spotted it immediately.

e: in Sasuke's defence, he probably was too exhausted to notice it at that point, and he didn't have his Sharingan activated after the fight ended.

Alloute
7th May 2009, 7:33 PM
Actually, if it's anything like a Kage bunshin, both Sasuke and Madara would have been able to see it. Sasuke did mention that he knew which one was the real one all along while fighting Naruto at the end of Part 1. (At least, that's what the anime said, not sure if the Manga said the same thing).

I think it's more of a really powerful transformation technique exclusive to the Eight-tails. If it had been a regular transformation, they both would have spotted it immediately.

e: in Sasuke's defence, he probably was too exhausted to notice it at that point, and he didn't have his Sharingan activated after the fight ended.

Sure, protect Sasuke, typical.

Anyway this week's chapter wasn't as good as I thought, oh well

HoennMaster
7th May 2009, 7:47 PM
Haven't read it yet, but it looks like Nagato killed Yahiko if I saw right.

Alloute
7th May 2009, 7:50 PM
Haven't read it yet, but it looks like Nagato killed Yahiko if I saw right.

No, Yahiko stabbed himself with Nagato's kunai.

uber gon
7th May 2009, 9:07 PM
Where do I read these spoilers?

TsukiMirage
7th May 2009, 11:47 PM
Actually, if it's anything like a Kage bunshin, both Sasuke and Madara would have been able to see it. Sasuke did mention that he knew which one was the real one all along while fighting Naruto at the end of Part 1. (At least, that's what the anime said, not sure if the Manga said the same thing).

I think it's more of a really powerful transformation technique exclusive to the Eight-tails. If it had been a regular transformation, they both would have spotted it immediately.

e: in Sasuke's defence, he probably was too exhausted to notice it at that point, and he didn't have his Sharingan activated after the fight ended.

Sasuke knew which was the real Naruto because of the perception ability of the Sharingan and because Naruto is slow. Since Naruto didn't move after making his clones, It was easy for Sasuke to keep track of the real one.

It's already been shown that a Kage Bunshin is a physical copy identical to the real person.

Shadow Lucario
8th May 2009, 12:05 AM
Yes, a Kage Bunshin is an exact copy, but the user has to distirbute their Chakra amongst them. Sasuke has said the his Sharingan can see Chakra as colors so I'm sure he noticed that either the Chakra was uneven between them or the colors were different

TsukiMirage
8th May 2009, 12:12 AM
Yes, a Kage Bunshin is an exact copy, but the user has to distirbute their Chakra amongst them. Sasuke has said the his Sharingan can see Chakra as colors so I'm sure he noticed that either the Chakra was uneven between them or the colors were different

That wouldn't change the color of the chakra and the chakra is distributed evenly among the user and clones. Even the Byakugan can't tell the difference and the Sharingan lacks the in-depth ability to see chakra like the Byakugan

Rashdan
8th May 2009, 4:54 AM
Doesn't the sharingan have the ability to "see through any technique", even kekkei genkai (even if its not able to copy it)? It should have no trouble being able to know when a technique like the kage bunshin is being used, even know the original one. At that point, I doubt Naruto would have been stupid enough to keep his original in the same spot after performing it; he is stupid, but not that stupid, as the whole point of the kage bunshin is to create deception, something he had grown good at.

However ... I think it's also a good thing to note that when Sasuke encountered a clone of Naruto's during the hunt for Sasuke arc, he didn't know it was a kage bunshin until after he ploughed through it.

Horoika1
8th May 2009, 5:39 AM
Is the chapter out? It's taking way longer than usual, considering the spoilers came out last week Wednesday?

Alloute
8th May 2009, 5:41 AM
Is the chapter out? It's taking way longer than usual, considering the spoilers came out last week Wednesday?

Not sure, I think tonight is the release.

TsukiMirage
8th May 2009, 10:23 AM
Well, The Raw was interesting, But still didn't show what happens after Yahiko dies.

Alloute
8th May 2009, 10:24 AM
I wanted to see more of Jinchuriki 3-7 lol. They look cool.

Shadow Lucario
8th May 2009, 10:26 AM
I don't understand how they beat the five tailed Jinchuriki so easily. He looks like a tough opponent, but I guess looks can be decieving

Alloute
8th May 2009, 10:28 AM
I don't understand how they beat the five tailed Jinchuriki so easily. He looks like a tough opponent, but I guess looks can be decieving

The 6 and 7-Tails are stronger still.

Wonder who caught them...Zetsu?

Shadow Lucario
8th May 2009, 10:31 AM
Well Kisame captured the four tails, Deidara got Gaara and the two tails, Kakuzu and Hidan got the rest I gather. No pun intended

Alloute
8th May 2009, 10:32 AM
So that leaves Pain, Konan, Zetsu, unnamed member, and Itachi...

Shadow Lucario
8th May 2009, 10:35 AM
Pain and Konan don't need to do anything, Itachi was worried about Sasuke, Tobi just joined and ran away from the three tails, and Zetsu still hasn't been seen doing anything impressive. Like Naruto said, he's aloe vera.

No chapter still and it's past 1:30!!!! >:(

Blaziryu
8th May 2009, 2:38 PM
This week's chapter was okay. It was mess up how Yahiko committed suicide like that.

TsukiMirage
8th May 2009, 3:11 PM
How dare Naruto and Konoha stand in the way of Nagato's the messiah. Kishi attempts to make Danzo even more of a villain but once again fails. Is it me or was Konan getting caught completely stupid?

As for the Jinchuuriki, Deidara had the Ichibi, Hiden had Nibi, Sasori had the Sanbi which was passed to Tobi, Kisame had the Yonbi, Kakuzu had the Hachibi which was passed on to Team Taka, And Itachi had the Kyuubi which was passed on to Pain. Presumably the Gobi, Rokubi, And Shichibi was caught by Pain, Konan, And Zetsu since they are the only ones left.

Alloute
8th May 2009, 3:12 PM
How dare Naruto and Konoha stand i the way of Nagato's the messiah. Kishi attempts to make Danzo even more of a villain but once again fails. Is it me or was Konan getting caught completely stupid?

Nagato needs to grow up, such a freakin' child.

Konan was so cute^_^

TsukiMirage
8th May 2009, 3:30 PM
Well Nagato is acting like a hypocritical little child, But no more then the rest of cast. Seriously, They're ninjas, Professional murders. They can't go around killing for money then get all righteous when someone does the same to them.

Actually, No. I respect Nagato more. At least he's trying to save people unlike the other so-called good guys.

P.S. Yes, They were awesome as children.

Alloute
8th May 2009, 3:31 PM
Anyone think that Danzo looked awesome? He was so young.

Hanzo is a jerk, taking Konan hostage, tsk tsk!!

TsukiMirage
8th May 2009, 3:44 PM
I want to know how Konan was taken hostage. Was she taken hostage in the bathroom or something, Since that's the only reason I see her being separate from either Nagato or Yahiko.

These new revelations bring up the question as to why Danzo didn't join forces with Orochimaru if he wanted Konoha so badly. Or why he didn't make his move after the Third's death. Kishi is horrible with foreshadowing.

Alloute
8th May 2009, 3:45 PM
Omg, Orochimaru was amazing, back when he was still a little snake lol.

Oh Konan, how you jest....

Henshin, Haku.
8th May 2009, 4:06 PM
Eh..more holes in his story. Yahiko's death to me looked as if Kishimoto treated him as a minor chara that needed to be out of the way..but it answered quite a few questions. However? Yahiko should have gone down fighting those Konoha ninja or something. His death..yep it was quick..but plain.

TsukiMirage
8th May 2009, 4:25 PM
Yeah, Still nothing real impressive in Nagato's background befitting a main villain. Gaara and Sasori's pasts would have been more befitting.

Alloute
8th May 2009, 4:26 PM
So bored....need another chapter lol. Why must Japan have week-long holidays?

Henshin, Haku.
8th May 2009, 4:30 PM
I suppose after this chapter and seeing Yahiko's flatly wasted death, i've lost interest in his whole background all together. I believe that awaiting Naruto's answer to Nagato is all I plan to plead for and..Sasuke's piece of the arc. There's gotta be more to his deteriorating eyesight and this new Sharingan he obtained.

uber gon
8th May 2009, 6:15 PM
Well Danzo is still a jerk.

Frankly I just want to know how Nagato got into his current condition.

MarshtompMan
8th May 2009, 11:41 PM
I thought it was from using that attack (Name has slipped my mind), isn't it?

TsukiMirage
9th May 2009, 12:17 AM
So bored....need another chapter lol. Why must Japan have week-long holidays?

Because they need time to rebuild after all the giant robots and monsters.


I thought it was from using that attack (Name has slipped my mind), isn't it? You mean Chou Shinra Tensei. It seems like Nagato was already in that condiction before arriving in Konoha.

Alloute
9th May 2009, 12:28 AM
Anyway, while we wait for more Naruto, I'll be in the Bleach Manga Discussion.

P.S. Any of you have event Pokemon lol? PM me^_^

minredd
9th May 2009, 12:43 AM
I'm wondering where Kabuto will come in. He was mentioned a few chapters back but hasn't been seen because of the Pein/Nagato episode. This might sound mean but I want Nagato to just die already :P Though it was interesting how his comrade died by his own unwilling hands.

Alloute
9th May 2009, 12:43 AM
I'm wondering where Kabuto will come in. He was mentioned a few chapters back but hasn't been seen because of the Pein/Nagato episode. This might sound mean but I want Nagato to just die already :P Though it was interesting how his comrade died by his own unwilling hands.

Kabuto is a salope lol. He will probably join Akatsuki, I think^_^

MarshtompMan
9th May 2009, 12:49 AM
You mean Chou Shinra Tensei. It seems like Nagato was already in that condiction before arriving in Konoha.

He might have used it a lot previously, or it might be from controlling the bodies.
Or he could have been beaten by his Metagross chair and is now it's slave.

Kamex
9th May 2009, 1:05 AM
Kishi attempts to make Danzo even more of a villain but once again fails.
How did he fail?


Is it me or was Konan getting caught completely stupid?
I admit it was a pretty random excuse to set things up for Yahiko's death... but I could see it happening. I think the main reason it seemed kinda pathetic is because there was no background to it, which is why I was worried Kishi might rush through Nagato's past.


Yahiko should have gone down fighting those Konoha ninja or something.
And let Konan die? O_o

I dunno, I was pleased with the chapter, actually. It got the point across... Nagato grew up with Yahiko and Konan, fighting and dreaming of bringing peace to the world one day with as little brute force as possible. I suppose this is where Nagato starts to change his mind about using brute force... starting with taking out Hanzo and his men and his family and his aquaintainces etc etc etc...

It's interesting how Jiraiya basically fed Nagato many of the general ideas that would lead to him using Yahiko's dream to justify his being a deity of the world to create peace. And it's cool to see the parallels of Jiraiya's training Nagato and Naruto (even their names are similar). Jiraiya had trained each of them with a focus (or at least thought) on helping them harness their powers. And even though Jiraiya helped create a huge evil (Pain), he also helped create what would stop it and others (Naruto).

Anyway, what I'm most interested in seeing at the moment is Nagato and Madara's first meeting. I want to see how Akatsuki was formed (and whether they created it together or not). Anyone else notice how Yahiko's ninja group had very similar clothing to Akatsuki's? The cloak was only missing the trademark red clouds.

Last thing I want to say is that for a strange-looking guy (especially with that particularly special variation of the Rain ninja air/gas mask thing some of them wear), Hanzo always looks awesome to me. :)

Shadow Lucario
9th May 2009, 4:51 AM
Hanzo is a prick. I'm glad Nagato killed him. If he killed him with Yahiko's body it would be even more funny. Now Sasuke just has to kill Danzou. I want to see it happen soon. Did Jiraiya train Nagato before or after Minato? To me it seems like it would be before

Alloute
9th May 2009, 4:55 AM
I wonder if Nagato is a Vasto Lorde.....or wait sorry wrong topic!!

Konan is weaker than I thought. Hanzo is a jerk, and Yahiko is a drama queen.

MarshtompMan
9th May 2009, 5:18 AM
Hanzo is a prick. I'm glad Nagato killed him. If he killed him with Yahiko's body it would be even more funny. Now Sasuke just has to kill Danzou. I want to see it happen soon. Did Jiraiya train Nagato before or after Minato? To me it seems like it would be before

Of course it was before.
He was still in a group with Tsunade and Orochimaru when he decided to train them.

TsukiMirage
9th May 2009, 5:51 AM
How did he fail? Ok, Kishi wants Danzo to be shown as this hardass villain, But in the context of the Naruto universe, Danzo and Hanzo's actions were just. Yahiko was leading a terrorist organization that was attempted to destabilize the balance of power. What happen was perfectly reasonable. Was Hanzo suppose to just give up his village. He was the rightfully chosen village leader.

Look, It's true that neither Danzo or Hanzo are nice people, But the fact remains that they live in a militaristic universe. It's perfectly acceptable to murder people for cash, Something the "good guys" like Minato and Kakashi have done. The so called shounen goodness that Naruto shows is only unique to him alone. The rest of their world doesn't follow the way Naruto thinks and most of them act quite similar to the various villains of the series.


And let Konan die? O_o Quite franky, Yes. Yahiko dying wouldn't have guaranteed that Hanzo wouldn't have killed Konan. The whole goal of their organization was to take over and protect Ame, And Yahiko basically threw all that away for one person. Yes, It's cold, But Yahiko was more important then either Konan and Nagato. That's why Hanzo wanted him dead.

Kamex
9th May 2009, 1:12 PM
Quite franky, Yes. Yahiko dying wouldn't have guaranteed that Hanzo wouldn't have killed Konan. The whole goal of their organization was to take over and protect Ame, And Yahiko basically threw all that away for one person. Yes, It's cold, But Yahiko was more important then either Konan and Nagato. That's why Hanzo wanted him dead.
Well I guess you can say that letting Konan die would have defeated the purpose of his fighting. He was trying to help people and get rid of fighting, so allowing one of his closest friends and comrades to die on account of himself would have been against his ideals I suppose. Anyway they were still too immature to be able to handle that kind of thing.

Even though they're at war... yes, I know it's all silly. But this is a shounen story, and no matter how Kishi writes it, there's going to be the underlying themes of friendship, doing what's right, making sacrifices for good, etc. I just don't see Kishi having Yahiko let Konan OR Nagato die, though I agree the whole thing could have been planned better on Kishi's part.

TsukiMirage
9th May 2009, 4:04 PM
I understand your point Kamex. The real problem is Naruto is a Seinen manga trapped in a Shounen manga world.

uber gon
9th May 2009, 11:01 PM
I understand your point Kamex. The real problem is Naruto is a Seinen manga trapped in a Shounen manga world.

What the heck is Seinen?

Kamex
10th May 2009, 12:42 AM
What the heck is Seinen?
Adult manga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seinen). Basically he's saying Naruto deals with difficult and mature themes, despite its shounen point of view.

Alloute
10th May 2009, 12:44 AM
Adult manga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seinen). Basically he's saying Naruto deals with difficult and mature themes, despite its shounen point of view.

What's so mature about the themes?

Kamex
10th May 2009, 1:05 AM
What's so mature about the themes?
In general, war.

TsukiMirage
10th May 2009, 2:03 AM
What's so mature about the themes?

War, Betrayal, Murder and people's lives being worth less then others, Assassination, Balance of political powers, Massacres, People being nothing more then tools.

If you want an example then the Land of Waves arc would be a good example of what Naruto as a Seinen would be like.

Rashdan
10th May 2009, 5:40 AM
Ok, Kishi wants Danzo to be shown as this hardass villain, But in the context of the Naruto universe, Danzo and Hanzo's actions were just. Yahiko was leading a terrorist organization that was attempted to destabilize the balance of power. What happen was perfectly reasonable. Was Hanzo suppose to just give up his village. He was the rightfully chosen village leader.

Errm, unless I'm misunderstanding your post, or misread the manga, the whole point of their organization was to bring peace without the use of brute force, not destabilize the ninja world by screwing up the balance of power. They weren't going after Hanzo's position, Hanzo was paranoid and assumed they would threaten his position, resulting in his actions.

And Terrorist organization? What?

Remember, this was BEFORE Akatsuki, before Nagato became Pain and defeated Hanzo for control over Amegakure. So far, there's no proof that the organization Yahiko lead was violent. If they had used violence, that'd be another story, and Hanzo would have been right to fear losing his position.

Shadow Lucario
10th May 2009, 6:38 AM
Errm, unless I'm misunderstanding your post, or misread the manga, the whole point of their organization was to bring peace without the use of brute force, not destabilize the ninja world by screwing up the balance of power. They weren't going after Hanzo's position, Hanzo was paranoid and assumed they would threaten his position, resulting in his actions.

And Terrorist organization? What?

Remember, this was BEFORE Akatsuki, before Nagato became Pain and defeated Hanzo for control over Amegakure. So far, there's no proof that the organization Yahiko lead was violent. If they had used violence, that'd be another story, and Hanzo would have been right to fear losing his position.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Alloute
10th May 2009, 6:41 AM
ANYWAYS.

Anyone have something nice to say? Any of you have speculations about how Nagato will die?

TsukiMirage
10th May 2009, 7:31 AM
Errm, unless I'm misunderstanding your post, or misread the manga, the whole point of their organization was to bring peace without the use of brute force, not destabilize the ninja world by screwing up the balance of power. They weren't going after Hanzo's position, Hanzo was paranoid and assumed they would threaten his position, resulting in his actions.

And Terrorist organization? What?

Remember, this was BEFORE Akatsuki, before Nagato became Pain and defeated Hanzo for control over Amegakure. So far, there's no proof that the organization Yahiko lead was violent. If they had used violence, that'd be another story, and Hanzo would have been right to fear losing his position.

Hanzo had every right to treat them as traitors, Since they were attempting to overthrow the ruling body of their own villages. Their actions would have just force Ame into another war, And Hanzo had to protect the peace that he had gained. That's most likely why Hanzo got help from Danzo, To prevent the major nations from retaliating. It's just as Nagato said, They were just children who didn't understand anything.

Hanzo was the lawful and official head of Ame, And Yahiko's group was attempting to start a rebellion. A rebellion that would have cause a civil war and been seen as a threat by the greater villages. They definitely would have not stood for it and would have attempted to get rid of them, As seen by Danzo's actions.

If they had manages to complete their goal and rid the world of the ninja villages, Then what? You've have hundreds if not thousands of human weapons who's only training is in war and killing. Look at what happen in real world Japan after the Samurai class was abolished. Many became bandits and mercenaries. You can't possibly think that every ninja would go along with their plan. In fact most would stay loyal to their various villages.

Yahiko's group wanted a sociaty that didn't depend on war, But that didn't mean they were peaceful themselves. Otherwise, They would have no need to gather other ninjas for their group. They couldn't achieve anything by protesting or anything.

As for them being terrorist, It's more then likely that Pain's whole Akatsuki idea of collecting money, Taking power away from the major villages, And Ruling the world was all from Yahiko. That would be the only possibility to actually achieved their goal.

Kamex
10th May 2009, 7:59 AM
the whole point of their organization was to bring peace without the use of brute force, not destabilize the ninja world by screwing up the balance of power.
That's true, but you have to admit, changing the world or even one country from fighting would definitely require fighting of your own. A lot of it. And a lot of power. And even then it's not guaranteed to work. Even their little group realized some fighting would be necessary, which was mostly why they decided to become ninja. Although something can be said of their being naive to think they could make such huge changes with little brute force.


As for them being terrorist, It's more then likely that Pain's whole Akatsuki idea of collecting money, Taking power away from the major villages, And Ruling the world was all from Yahiko. That would be the only possibility to actually achieved their goal.
Perhaps, or perhaps it was Madara's idea that Pain went along with.


Any of you have speculations about how Nagato will die?
It's very hard to say, it could go many different ways at this point. I'll just go out on a limb and say he'll be obliterated by Zetsu. :P

Shadow Lucario
10th May 2009, 8:08 AM
I say Nagato dies of Cancer :P

uber gon
10th May 2009, 8:11 AM
Wonder if we'll get to the point where we find out about how Nagato got so skinny?

TsukiMirage
10th May 2009, 8:20 AM
Perhaps, or perhaps it was Madara's idea that Pain went along with.

Well, It seems somewhat different then what Madara would do. Plus Madara's overall goal seems to have something to do with Sasuke.

Kamex
10th May 2009, 8:28 AM
Well, It seems somewhat different then what Madara would do. Plus Madara's overall goal seems to have something to do with Sasuke.
That's right, but I guess it's all up in the air for now. Hopefully we'll see soon how exactly Akatsuki was formed.

TsukiMirage
10th May 2009, 9:15 AM
What I see that happen was Yahiko came up with the basic design (You notice that the Ame rebels uniforms look a lot like the Akatsuki cloaks). Then Madara came along with a better plan and help gather the current members, While helping out with his resources as Mizukage.

Rashdan
10th May 2009, 5:37 PM
@Kamex and Tsuki:

At this point, it could go either way. All Nagato has said is that they tried to bring peace with no brute force, but nothing else was said as to whether or not they did use force, even a little bit. Yes, I'm aware that it is almost impossible to achieve peace without fighting, but it's not completely impossible; the chances of success are extremely low. Who knows, given a chance, they MAY have been able to come to a peace treaty only through negotiation (as Hanzo "wanted", but later tricked them). They didn't exactly get that chance.

Rallying support would have been easy too, in a time of war. Everyone would want peace in a war, and would want it with as little extra force as possible, preferably none.

It's too early to jump to the conclusion that they were violent. That's all I'm saying.

MarshtompMan
10th May 2009, 6:14 PM
Wonder if we'll get to the point where we find out about how Nagato got so skinny?

Wasn't it stated that controlling six bodies weakened him?

PartyPokemon
10th May 2009, 7:41 PM
So... wassup with Sasuke?
We have heard nothing from him in, like, 100 chapters or something... I wonder...

TsukiMirage
11th May 2009, 8:19 AM
Wasn't it stated that controlling six bodies weakened him?

No, Nothing was actually stated. That wouldn't make much sense anyway, Seeing as he mostly uses only one body at a time.

Alloute
11th May 2009, 8:24 AM
Wasn't it stated that controlling six bodies weakened him?

No, it was never stated, but Konan said that Shinra Tensei's larger version was bad, because it would "shorten his lifespan".

HoennMaster
11th May 2009, 9:28 AM
^ But still, I doubt that alone did that to his body.

If Nagato used Yahiko's body to kill Hanzo I'll laugh.

Shadow Lucario
11th May 2009, 9:30 AM
If Nagato used Yahiko's body to kill Hanzo I'll laugh.

You and me both.

What do you guys think of Danzo? Think he is going to be a challenge for Sasuke?

HoennMaster
11th May 2009, 10:48 AM
No, I have a feeling that after all this build-up, he'll turn out to be a weakling and keel over quickly.

QCF+P=Hadouken
11th May 2009, 1:47 PM
All these pointless flashbacks and nostalgia is getting old and repetitive. Honestly, Kishimoto is just dragging out the series now. Plus, Madara or Sasuke hasn't shown up in a while. Maybe he forgot about them?

TsukiMirage
11th May 2009, 4:24 PM
Kishi could never forget about Sasuke. Once all these annoying flashbacks are done, We'll get back to the "real" protagonist.

uber gon
11th May 2009, 6:42 PM
No, I have a feeling that after all this build-up, he'll turn out to be a weakling and keel over quickly.

5 bucks there will be an *** pull where Danzo's right has has the Sharingan of Sasuke's dad.

Kaim_Fabuyashi
11th May 2009, 11:18 PM
Yes I live! O__O

Anyway, I am still waiting for Mr. 8 Tails to come back and give us an awsome rap. That and our 'Village Leader Council Metting' thing. >.>

And somehow I just get a vibe that Naruto is like gunna be empathetic for Nagato and not fighthim or Konan, or like join him or something. I dont think he will have it in him to kill the guy after his long drawn out story.

~Kaim

ps. id anyone else think Yahiko's death was too rushed?

Hanzo "Here, kill him with this kunai!'

Nagato: *Picks up Kunai*

Yahiko: 'ZO MAH GAWD! SHINY!' *Impale*


Not even a super ninja move to like, make a mudslide or something? That's weak man. XD

Horoika1
11th May 2009, 11:36 PM
Nagato = a poor manipulated, corrupted, and traumatized soul

Alloute
11th May 2009, 11:38 PM
Nagato = a poor manipulated, corrupted, and traumatized soul

Nagato= immature, wannabe God.

Shadow Lucario
12th May 2009, 12:22 AM
Nagato= immature, wannabe God.

How is he immature? O_O

Horoika1
12th May 2009, 12:24 AM
Sasuke = immature
Nagato = traumatized individual

Averyy
12th May 2009, 12:46 AM
Nagato=gansta ;)

Shadow Lucario
12th May 2009, 1:20 AM
Sasuke = immature
Nagato = traumatized individual

How is Sasuke immature? Why are you even calling these characters immature? They were both traumatized in their past and may be on the insane side a little bit.

Kamex
12th May 2009, 1:52 AM
Zetsu = Chuck Norris

...just joking. >_>


All these pointless flashbacks and nostalgia is getting old and repetitive. Honestly, Kishimoto is just dragging out the series now. Plus, Madara or Sasuke hasn't shown up in a while. Maybe he forgot about them?
Of course he didn't forget about two of the most important characters in the story. And IIRC Kishi has been attempting to move toward a conclusion to the series for quite some time now; he simply doesn't want to leave too many loose ends in his wake. Finding out about Nagato's past, especially concerning Yahiko, can hardly be called pointless. :|


anyone else think Yahiko's death was too rushed?

Hanzo "Here, kill him with this kunai!'

Nagato: *Picks up Kunai*

Yahiko: 'ZO MAH GAWD! SHINY!' *Impale*


Not even a super ninja move to like, make a mudslide or something? That's weak man. XD
I agree it was rushed (probably could have spent at least one whole chapter on that particular scene or stretched it into more than just one short battle). However like I said earlier I don't believe it would make sense if he actually fought back, seeing as he wouldn't want Konan to die. Yes, it makes little sense not to fight back in a real-world sense, but this is a story about heroics. It's kind of like how Kakashi's father, Sakumo, did 'the right thing' by puting his comrades in front of the mission (or so was implied after Obito decided it was 'the right thing'), rather than what you'd be expected to do perhaps in real life. The show's morals are put ahead of being realistic, I think, to prove their point. Which is fine IMO.


How is Sasuke immature? Why are you even calling these characters immature? They were both traumatized in their past and may be on the insane side a little bit.
I think he meant immature in thinking he could be a god.

Shadow Lucario
12th May 2009, 2:08 AM
I think Deva Path Pain was the closest anyone can and will get to being a god. If he wanted to he could kill you, or let you live. Ever notice he never checks to see if the person he is fighting is alive or not?

Kamex
12th May 2009, 2:15 AM
Good point, I was going to mention that. But even so, he's not literally a god, and his reason in attempting such a thing are goals that arguably can't be realized. But in any case, I suppose that doesn't necessarily make him immature.


Ever notice he never checks to see if the person he is fighting is alive or not?
Before or after he kills them? I'm not sure what you mean.

Alloute
12th May 2009, 2:18 AM
How is he immature? O_O

He didn't grew up, he was stuck in the past...

MarshtompMan
12th May 2009, 2:41 AM
Before or after he kills them? I'm not sure what you mean.

He means after he "kills" them.
An example is when he defeated Jiraiya and thought he was dead.

Mawile XD
12th May 2009, 2:43 AM
It isn't repetitive. We found out how Yahiko died, which was a big question. The next chapter will either be Naruto's decision, or the death of Hanzo and the forming of Akatsuki. I predict that Madara, Zetsu, or Sasuke will kill Nagato, or that he'd live, and change his goals. It's corny, but I just see Naruto's decision changing him.

Alloute
12th May 2009, 2:45 AM
It isn't repetitive. We found out how Yahiko died, which was a big question. The next chapter will either be Naruto's decision, or the death of Hanzo and the forming of Akatsuki. I predict that Madara, Zetsu, or Sasuke will kill Nagato, or that he'd live, and change his goals. It's corny, but I just see Naruto's decision changing him.

Corny is right. Nagato has to die, he did too many wrong deeds...

Kamex
12th May 2009, 3:14 AM
He means after he "kills" them.
An example is when he defeated Jiraiya and thought he was dead.
Oh, I see, he doesn't care (or need to...) check and make sure they're really dead after the battle.


I predict that Madara, Zetsu, or Sasuke will kill Nagato, or that he'd live, and change his goals.
Maybe Danzo will kill him. I mean after this last chapter we know they have a connection in the past.


Corny is right. Nagato has to die, he did too many wrong deeds...
I think he'll start to see the error of his ways after Naruto gives his bright, hope-filled yet serious answer, but will soon after be killed by a villain (so justice is still served in the end). Dunno where that leaves Konan, though.

MarshtompMan
12th May 2009, 3:24 AM
^Konan will either (A) Flee and wander the world, (B) Return to Amegakure and become the new leader, (C) Also be killed, or (D) kill herself.

Alloute
12th May 2009, 3:25 AM
^Konan will either (A) Flee and wander the world, (B) Return to Amegakure and become the new leader, (C) Also be killed, or (D) kill herself.

YUP, pretty much, though I hope she survives, she is interesting...

Shadow Lucario
12th May 2009, 3:50 AM
Corny is right. Nagato has to die, he did too many wrong deeds...

You cannot call his deeds wrong because what you think is wrong might be completely different of what he thinks is wrong. Going by that logic then everyone in the Naruto universe needs to die seeing as it is horribly wrong to kill, right?

Kamex
12th May 2009, 3:57 AM
You cannot call his deeds wrong because what you think is wrong might be completely different of what he thinks is wrong. Going by that logic then everyone in the Naruto universe needs to die seeing as it is horribly wrong to kill, right?
Except that Kishi has made it pretty obvious that Pain is a villain. He may be misguided and it may be hard to draw the line between what's truly evil and what's truly good, but in the end that only serves to strengthen the plot. I think Nagato will have to pay one way or another, simply because the author has presented him as a 'bad guy' at the end of the day.

HoennMaster
12th May 2009, 5:44 AM
I'd like to see Konan in at least one more fight before she presumably dies. Her last "fight" started off good, but we didn't get to see much of her abilities.


All these pointless flashbacks and nostalgia is getting old and repetitive. Honestly, Kishimoto is just dragging out the series now. Plus, Madara or Sasuke hasn't shown up in a while. Maybe he forgot about them?

A story with no backstory would suck.

redpanda
12th May 2009, 6:02 AM
It would be rather corny if Nagato tried to repent and change his ways. I think he is too far into his belief of 'pain' to be realistically 'saved'. I think the only way for this arc to end interestingly (for me at least) is for Nagato to die. I do wonder what will happen to Hinata though. I doubt she will die though a lot of people seem to want her to.

TsukiMirage
12th May 2009, 7:08 AM
Nagato will probably repent because that's how the story is shaping up. Because even though his past is probably average to any other ninja, Kishi wants us to feel sorry for him.


A story with no backstory would suck. I see you have forgotten about the Jinchuuriki, Hiden and Kakuzu, Rin and Kushina, And most of the other ninja villages.


I do wonder what will happen to Hinata though. I doubt she will die though a lot of people seem to want her to. Because Pain is a terrible villain, Hinata was already revived by Sakura

Alloute
12th May 2009, 7:17 AM
You cannot call his deeds wrong because what you think is wrong might be completely different of what he thinks is wrong. Going by that logic then everyone in the Naruto universe needs to die seeing as it is horribly wrong to kill, right?

WHAT YOU TYPED MADE NO SENSE^_^

So I'm going to IGNORE you, and ask: "Will there be a chapter this week?"

TsukiMirage
12th May 2009, 8:06 AM
WHAT YOU TYPED MADE NO SENSE^_^

So I'm going to IGNORE you, and ask: "Will there be a chapter this week?"

I think what Shadow Lucario meant was while Nagato's actions were bad, In the Narutoverse where people are killed all the time, His actions aren't that terrible. Especially when you compare him to others.

As for your other question, I do think there will be a chapter this week.

Alloute
12th May 2009, 8:19 AM
I think what Shadow Lucario meant was while Nagato's actions were bad, In the Narutoverse where people are killed all the time, His actions aren't that terrible. Especially when you compare him to others.

As for your other question, I do think there will be a chapter this week.

Thanks for the clarification. But Nagato KILLED Shizune and others, that is unforgivable.

Hope there is a chapter...

TsukiMirage
12th May 2009, 4:40 PM
While the death of Shizune is UNFORGIVABLE, Nagato will not be killed by anyone from Konoha. There's the possibility that Madara will do it or Nagato will die naturally, But him being killed by Konoha would make the past chapters pointless.

MarshtompMan
12th May 2009, 10:19 PM
Isn't Konoha dead? I thought Pain killed him.

Kyogre Master
12th May 2009, 11:13 PM
Isn't Konoha dead? I thought Pain killed him.

Konoha the village is all but destroyed, so you could say it's more or less dead.

Konohamaru the kid is not dead as he used Rasengan on one of Pain's bodies.

Shadow Lucario
13th May 2009, 12:35 AM
I think Nagato is either going to croak suddenly or Madara will kill him for failing. I mean Konan did say he won't fail. This will most likely lead to Konan attacking him and dying.

Horoika1
13th May 2009, 2:51 AM
Nagato is going to either:

-Die of his "illness"
-Naruto is going to kill him (unlikely)
-Ask Naruto to end his life after hearing Naruto's answer, realizing that he is not helping the "cause" of bringing peace
-Madara kills him

Afterwards, Konan will either leave Akatsuki, commit suicide, or possibly continue her Akatsuki activities

Kamex
13th May 2009, 3:16 AM
Maybe Nagato will commit suicide himself.

Anyway, the only thing I want Konan to do more than have a true battle is take off that cloak and show us that sexy body hiding underneath. :)

HoennMaster
13th May 2009, 4:33 AM
I see you have forgotten about the Jinchuuriki, Hiden and Kakuzu, Rin and

I said a story with no back story sucks, not selective back story. :)

Shadow Lucario
13th May 2009, 6:40 AM
I hope Kishi still includes that Kage summit. I hated how he cut out Kisame vs Suigetsu. I was really looking forward to seeing Kisame kick his watery ***!

TsukiMirage
13th May 2009, 10:58 AM
I see no point to the Kage Summit now. Any action they take would be pointless. The only reason I see it happening is to showcase the last two Kages.

Concerning the new spoilers, They are horrible, Even for fakes. If they are true, Then Kishi is a moron.

HoennMaster
13th May 2009, 11:02 AM
Oh, what are they?

TsukiMirage
13th May 2009, 12:02 PM
Oh, what are they?

If you mean the spoiler, Then...

Source : NF
Credits : Nightjumper

Hanzou gives to order to kill Nagato. Hidden Rain shinobi appear.
Nagato repels their kunai with Shinra ??[Tensei?], surprising the ninja.
He takes the opportunity to save Konan, but his legs are hit by Hanzou's Katon technique.
Both his legs are crumbling...
(That's kinda why he's in a wheelchair now)
[Unsure]Hanzou is surprised when Nagato is standing with his Rinnegan, even after being hit by his Katon tech.
While Nagato collapses,
Summoning: Gedou Ma Zou[Lit.: Heretical Demon Statue]
(It's just like the statue that extracts and keeps the Bijuu)
Konan shouts: "Don't use that technique!"
Several black rods comes out of the statue and pierces Nagato's back.
Thence, in Musou[Lit: peerless; unparalleled; unparallelled; matchless] Mode, something like white dragons emerge from the statue's mouth.
They hit the Konoha Anbu and the Hidden Rain shinobi, their souls being extracted one by one.
The filler ninja are wiped out.(Danzou probably fleed after seeing the statue)
Hanzou escapes through Shunshin no Jutsu.

The end of the story, back to present time.

And afterwards, he says something like his comrades had died one by one.

He demands Naruto's answer.
Naruto remembers what Ero-sennin said.
(The stuff about everyone understanding each other~)
[Naruto:] Ero-sennin believed in me and entrusted it to me.
That's why I'll believe in what Ero-sennin believed in.
That's my answer!!
And that's why I won't kill you!

The end

Cover/spine is of Sasuke.

More info:

Sorry, I forgot to write this:
Nagato transforms from his healthy self to his crippled self when the blacks rods hits him.
[I think nja is saying that he's taking pictures of the spin-off about the Gutsy Ninja]

Everything after Nagato using Shinra Tensei is horrible. It's like someone is trying to explain everything in the present with the past.

HoennMaster
13th May 2009, 12:06 PM
Sounds like something that could happen, I personally don't see what is so horrible about it.

TsukiMirage
13th May 2009, 3:16 PM
Sounds like something that could happen, I personally don't see what is so horrible about it.

Maybe it was because I'm a fan of the Rinnegan ad was expecting something good. Kishi continues to provide nothing for the Rinnegan to equal it's hype.
There's also the part when Konan tells him not to use it, Implying that he has used it before, And if he had it before, Why not use it? Plus there's nothing about Madara, The Bijuu, Or the creation of Akatsuki.

P.S. Apparently, It has been confirmed.