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View Full Version : Naruto: Post Timeskip Discussion (Warning Intense Spoilers!)



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HoennMaster
13th May 2009, 10:03 PM
It's on e chapter, we can have more info on Akatsuki next week.

uber gon
13th May 2009, 10:26 PM
What the **** are those black rods made of? Geez.

Shadow Lucario
13th May 2009, 11:20 PM
This chapter sounds boring. I like most of the flashbacks in the series but this one is boring me. I would rather watch my fingernails grow.

Staryu
14th May 2009, 12:19 AM
I hate long flashbacks..especially ones with characters I don't like. He should have condensed it to one chapter..xD..but this is Kishimoto we're talking about.

mefistus
14th May 2009, 1:53 AM
i dont know i think it's important to learn about his development into what he is. We dont know everything there is to know about him OR the akatsuki. While i usually don't agree with Kishi's drawn-out storytelling, I'm actually in favor of this one.

Edit- rank up =P

TsukiMirage
14th May 2009, 4:44 AM
It's one chapter, we can have more info on Akatsuki next week.

Since this is the end of the flashbacks, I doubt we'll get any more info for a while.

HoennMaster
14th May 2009, 5:32 AM
Who says it is the end of flashbacks? Just because he is talking with Naruto at the end?


I hate long flashbacks..especially ones with characters I don't like. He should have condensed it to one chapter

One person's entire history in one chapter? That would be rushed and dumb.

TsukiMirage
14th May 2009, 6:08 AM
Who says it is the end of flashbacks? Just because he is talking with Naruto at the end? The whole reason Nagato was telling his past was to get Naruto's answer, And since Naruto gives his answer, There's no reason for Nagato to continue.


One person's entire history in one chapter? That would be rushed and dumb. It'll be better then some character's got *couch* Hiden and Kakuzu *couch*.

Alloute
14th May 2009, 7:06 AM
The whole reason Nagato was telling his past was to get Naruto's answer, And since Naruto gives his answer, There's no reason for Nagato to continue.

It'll be better then some character's got *couch* Hiden and Kakuzu *couch*.

You spelled HIDAN wrong lol....

So this week's chapter is just flashbacks? Are the spoilers in?

MugenKeiji
14th May 2009, 9:18 AM
So Leaf = America

Wonderful. Nagato was born because the ninja system prompts those trained into the system to assume ANYONE's an enemy due to the the "Deception beyond deception" bullcrap, thus it was legitimate for the Leaf ninja to assume that Nagato's parents were "enemy combatants" disguised as a family.

...this is still Shonen right?

Not to mention how Yahiko died wasn't even that heroic, it was just to satisfy an old man and a hawk. More allegorical if you ask me.

Alloute
14th May 2009, 9:26 AM
Nagato:...when will you grow up and face the truth?

Konan: Get the clams out of your pants and FIGHT for once.

Naruto: Do something useful....

Lol, anyone have any idea how long this story arc will last?

TsukiMirage
14th May 2009, 10:29 AM
You spelled HIDAN wrong lol....

So this week's chapter is just flashbacks? Are the spoilers in?

Eh, I was spelling it from memory. As for the chapter, The spoilers are out, But no Pics.


So Leaf = America

Wonderful. Nagato was born because the ninja system prompts those trained into the system to assume ANYONE's an enemy due to the the "Deception beyond deception" bullcrap, thus it was legitimate for the Leaf ninja to assume that Nagato's parents were "enemy combatants" disguised as a family.

...this is still Shonen right?

Not to mention how Yahiko died wasn't even that heroic, it was just to satisfy an old man and a hawk. More allegorical if you ask me. If only they had killed them on purpose. No, Kishi seems to lack the balls to make his military nation act as an actual military nation. If the Konoha ninjas had kill them because of them being Ame ninja, Then there might be a point to Nagato's feelings.

As for Yahiko, Yes he did a stupid move, Especially trusting Hanzo not to kill Konan and Nagato after his death.

Alloute
14th May 2009, 10:45 AM
Eh, I was spelling it from memory. As for the chapter, The spoilers are out, But no Pics.


You are the genious of this thread lol, you should know everything. Ok cool spoilers, those are very accurate....

I will hopefully not have to resort to predicting stuff now, if the spoilers are true, then it ruins my big idea/speculation.

TsukiMirage
14th May 2009, 12:00 PM
You are the genious of this thread lol, you should know everything.While very true, I sometimes forget things lol.

As much as I hate the spoilers, There's an idea going around that since Nagato became cripple because of the rods, He'll remove them soon and go back to normal. If that happens, I would definitely stop criticizing Kishi. Maybe.

MarshtompMan
14th May 2009, 2:11 PM
It seems that the English name of Shinra Tensei is "Almighty Push".

TsukiMirage
14th May 2009, 2:41 PM
I don't see why they couldn't just keep the Japanese name. I mean, Other less popular mangas do it, And I would think that it would be easier to accomplish. The name "Almighty Push" loses the whole Buddhist connection and I wary to see what they call Pain's Bansho Ten'in.

Staryu
14th May 2009, 4:05 PM
One person's entire history in one chapter? That would be rushed and dumb.
Okay, two chapters is enough then.

Which brings up another issue I have with this manga..I hate how some characters get chapters and chapters of back story while other characters who have been in more than a few chapters/plots don't even get last names.

TsukiMirage
14th May 2009, 4:38 PM
How about how two of the major characters (Shino and Tenten) don't even get a past, Motive, Or goal of sorts. Heck, Tenten didn't even get a last name.

MarshtompMan
14th May 2009, 8:57 PM
^Maybe her actual name is Ten Ten?

uber gon
14th May 2009, 9:31 PM
Wonder if Konan gets raped by Nagato Berserk style?

MarshtompMan
14th May 2009, 9:42 PM
^I think they're just friends, plus I doubt he has the energy...

And Bansho Ten'in might be Almighty Subjugation, but I have to doublecheck.

uber gon
14th May 2009, 9:58 PM
^I think they're just friends, plus I doubt he has the energy...


I guess......

Staryu
15th May 2009, 1:59 AM
How about how two of the major characters (Shino and Tenten) don't even get a past, Motive, Or goal of sorts. Heck, Tenten didn't even get a last name.
Those two were the ones I was referring to, specifically Tenten. Kankurou & Temari have nothing either except that they're associated with Gaara.

TsukiMirage
15th May 2009, 2:23 AM
There's a whole list of characters that got shortchange by Kishi in the manga.

MarshtompMan
15th May 2009, 2:40 AM
Wait, did Pain ever even say the name of Bansho Ten'in?

Shadow Lucario
15th May 2009, 3:00 AM
You are the genious of this thread lol
Genius. Learn how to spell if you want to correct someone's spelling


While very true, I sometimes forget things lol.

Not only is this untrue, but very narcissistic.

TsukiMirage
15th May 2009, 3:40 AM
Not only is this untrue, but very narcissistic. We were only joking around. I know I'm not that smart (Well I am smart) and most of the stuff I say (type) is based on opinion and research.

Anyway, The Raw is out, The spoilers are true, And I need to get a plane ticket to Japan so that I can speak to Kishi.

P.S. Insane Nagato looks cool.

Shadow Lucario
15th May 2009, 3:43 AM
Only Raws? I hope this isn't like last week. I am surprisingly bored with Nagato's past. The only thing I am interested in is the creation of Akatsuki. That is the only thing I want to find out from Nagato. I don't care what happens to him after that

MarshtompMan
15th May 2009, 3:48 AM
I'm just wondering how Kisame and Tobi gave birth to Zetsu.
And if Pain's Jiraiya's daughter, how can Tsunade be Tobi if Danzo killed Piplup?

TsukiMirage
15th May 2009, 3:52 AM
Only Raws? I hope this isn't like last week. I am surprisingly bored with Nagato's past. The only thing I am interested in is the creation of Akatsuki. That is the only thing I want to find out from Nagato. I don't care what happens to him after that

Then you're out of luck. More talking and no Akatsuki. I guess we'll have to wait til the fight with Madara to learn about Akatsuki.

Alloute
15th May 2009, 5:28 AM
Wonder if Konan gets raped by Nagato Berserk style?

You are horrible, that isn't something we discuss in these forums....


Genius. Learn how to spell if you want to correct someone's spelling


I will personally report you if you badger me or someone else again. It was a mistake, I type fast for Christ's sake!!


Anyway, is the chapter out yet?

Shadow Lucario
15th May 2009, 5:38 AM
I will personally report you if you badger me or someone else again. It was a mistake, I type fast for Christ's sake!!


Anyway, is the chapter out yet?

Your report would be one of the finest examples of hypocrisy as you did the same as I did, did you not? Reporting me for correcting your spelling would be an enormous waste of time for you and the mods.

To answer your question, no

TsukiMirage
15th May 2009, 6:31 AM
After reading the translation, It really seems that Nagato had the power before Yahiko's death which makes this history lesson fail, BIG TIME. Also, Naruto's answer seems kind of arrogant to me. Telling a guy who wants to kill you that you won't kill him isn't much of an answer.

Alloute
15th May 2009, 6:32 AM
Your report would be one of the finest examples of hypocrisy as you did the same as I did, did you not? Reporting me for correcting your spelling would be an enormous waste of time for you and the mods.

To answer your question, no

I would have reported you for spamming, not spelling matters :p

Thanks, good to know, now I'll go read spoilers, Bleach was ever so good.

Shadow Lucario
15th May 2009, 6:51 AM
Anyone remember when Deva Path went into that cryogenic like chamber thing? Was he done using the technique or what?

TsukiMirage
15th May 2009, 8:04 AM
Anyone remember when Deva Path went into that cryogenic like chamber thing? Was he done using the technique or what?

Which technique? If your asking whether Nagato gives chakra to those bodies, Then no. They return to being normal dead bodies.

HoennMaster
15th May 2009, 9:02 AM
I hate how some characters get chapters and chapters of back story while other characters who have been in more than a few chapters/plots don't even get last names.

Not like anyone cares about TenTen anyway. :)


Wonder if Konan gets raped by Nagato Berserk style?

I'm starting to worry about you....

Shadow Lucario
15th May 2009, 9:04 AM
Which technique? If your asking whether Nagato gives chakra to those bodies, Then no. They return to being normal dead bodies.

The technique in question is the Six Paths of Pain. I was wondering if Nagato was going out to play with his Metagross.

TsukiMirage
15th May 2009, 9:32 AM
The technique in question is the Six Paths of Pain. I was wondering if Nagato was going out to play with his Metagross.

Nagato can't, No legs.

But yes, That can be turned off.

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
15th May 2009, 3:51 PM
I have to say...this was a rather boring chapter...Nagato bores me now, so what's going to happen now with Pain, if Naruto won't kill him?

Oh wait, he's frail, he'll die on his own.

TsukiMirage
15th May 2009, 6:50 PM
We did learn one thing. The Rinnegan gives Nagato the ability to summon Final Fantasy monsters (Anima).

Kyogre Master
15th May 2009, 7:35 PM
I'm just wondering how Kisame and Tobi gave birth to Zetsu.
And if Pain's Jiraiya's daughter, how can Tsunade be Tobi if Danzo killed Piplup?
o_0?

We did learn one thing. The Rinnegan gives Nagato the ability to summon Final Fantasy monsters (Anima).
lol. That was the best part of the chapter imo. The rest was just boring.

Meh, I'm ready for the return of action/humor...

MarshtompMan
15th May 2009, 8:49 PM
Wait, did Pain ever even say the name of Bansho Ten'in?

Anyone ?

TsukiMirage
15th May 2009, 10:15 PM
Wait, did Pain ever even say the name of Bansho Ten'in? If you're referring to the Viz translation, Then no.

TsukiMirage
15th May 2009, 10:16 PM
Wait, did Pain ever even say the name of Bansho Ten'in? If you're referring to the Viz translation, Then no.

Shadow Lucario
15th May 2009, 10:54 PM
Yay! The flashback is over! Now what will happen when Gai and Neji get to Naruto?

HoennMaster
16th May 2009, 12:08 AM
The greatest mystery has now been solved: the scratch in the forehead protector! J/K

Kind of boring chapter. So I'm assuming that the reason Nagato is so frail is because the sealing statue was once his summoning?

Alloute
16th May 2009, 12:16 AM
WOW. So that sealing statue is actually Nagato's Rinnegan's creation. That thing stabbed it's summoner, how weird...

That darn Hanzo and his craftiness...

uber gon
16th May 2009, 12:44 AM
Why do I get the feeling instead of an atomic bomb Pain will bring his own version of the Cloverfield monster?:p

Kamex
16th May 2009, 12:58 AM
Wait, so did Hanzo escape, or did he die? I can't quite tell...

I wonder if that huge King of Hell monster was in the original Rinnegan dude too.

So anyway, now that Naruto decided not to kill Nagato... what the heck is he going to do? I mean obviously Naruto won't end up dying in the end. Has Nagato changed, or will someone else come in and take care of him? I'm still lookin' at Danzo... lol.

MarshtompMan
16th May 2009, 1:05 AM
If you're referring to the Viz translation, Then no.

I meant the original, because in the Viz translation, it looks like he said to different names for Shinra Tensei. (Almighty Push and Almighty Subjugation.)


Wait, so did Hanzo escape, or did he die? I can't quite tell...

I think Hanzo died during Amegakure's "Civil War", since that's when they made everything secret.
When Jiraiya came to Amegakure in the present-day, he didn't know Hanzo was dead, so...

TsukiMirage
16th May 2009, 2:17 AM
Wait, so did Hanzo escape, or did he die? I can't quite tell...

So anyway, now that Naruto decided not to kill Nagato... what the heck is he going to do? I mean obviously Naruto won't end up dying in the end. Has Nagato changed, or will someone else come in and take care of him? I'm still lookin' at Danzo... lol.

Hanzo escaped by using Shunshin no jutsu. He's killed later on by the six paths.

Kishi has now basically confirmed that Naruto will never kill a person, Which means he can never be a ninja or Hokage, Which pisses me off. What is Kishi thinking, He had a perfectly good storyline with Part 1, There was no reason for the sudden change.


I meant the original, because in the Viz translation, it looks like he said to different names for Shinra Tensei. (Almighty Push and Almighty Subjugation.) They seem to have given Shinra Tensei and Chou Shinra Tensei different names.

Kamex
16th May 2009, 2:43 AM
I think Hanzo died during Amegakure's "Civil War", since that's when they made everything secret.
When Jiraiya came to Amegakure in the present-day, he didn't know Hanzo was dead, so...

Hanzo escaped by using Shunshin no jutsu. He's killed later on by the six paths.
Makes sense.


Kishi has now basically confirmed that Naruto will never kill a person, Which means he can never be a ninja or Hokage, Which pisses me off. What is Kishi thinking, He had a perfectly good storyline with Part 1, There was no reason for the sudden change.
Are you sure he hasn't killed anyone? Plenty of 'good' characters in the series have killed enemy ninja before, so long as they were 'villains'.

An example off the top of my head would be Chouji blasting the crap out of Jiroubou with his fist and probably killing him.

Really the main surprise here, I think, is that Naruto is sparing a villain, not just anybody. And that's only because of the story Nagato told and how similar he apparently is to Naruto - Kishi's just trying to prove to the audience that Naruto really is Hokage material, or at least that he fits the heroic/fair/virtuous mold. Whether you think that's how things should be or not is up to you.

But again - I'm actually not sure if Naruto's ever killed anybody himself. Even Sasuke is being 'reserved' as a good guy, yet I don't remember if he's killed the opponents he's defeated, so maybe I'm just wrong about everything I just said. Someone correct me if I am. >_>

uber gon
16th May 2009, 2:50 AM
Great are we going to be going Cloverfield in Naruto soon or am I just dreaming?

Shadow Lucario
16th May 2009, 3:55 AM
Naruto took out two of Kakuzu's hearts so that was like killing him twice. I don't know if it counts, but Sasuke sliced and diced Orochimaru then absorbed him. I guess you can say he killed him.

Blaziryu
16th May 2009, 3:57 AM
Damn, Nagato/Pain has one hell of a jutsu arsenal. His Gedou Mazou was effin awesome. Maybe he should've use it on Naruto before his 6 bodies were defeated.

TsukiMirage
16th May 2009, 4:03 AM
Are you sure he hasn't killed anyone? Plenty of 'good' characters in the series have killed enemy ninja before, so long as they were 'villains'.

An example off the top of my head would be Chouji blasting the crap out of Jiroubou with his fist and probably killing him.

Really the main surprise here, I think, is that Naruto is sparing a villain, not just anybody. And that's only because of the story Nagato told and how similar he apparently is to Naruto - Kishi's just trying to prove to the audience that Naruto really is Hokage material, or at least that he fits the heroic/fair/virtuous mold. Whether you think that's how things should be or not is up to you.

But again - I'm actually not sure if Naruto's ever killed anybody himself. Even Sasuke is being 'reserved' as a good guy, yet I don't remember if he's killed the opponents he's defeated, so maybe I'm just wrong about everything I just said. Someone correct me if I am. >_>

Well, I think Naruto killed that ninja that took Itachi's form, But beyond that, He hasn't killed. Naruto has been ready to kill others, But something always stop him from finishing them off, Like with Kakuzu. The same for Sasuke, Whose only definite kill was Orochimaru, And even that's questionable (Since his soul ended up in Sasuke and sealed away by Itachi).



Note- Emo Rant Below, Read at own risk:
The problem with this is that the Hokage's are ninjas too, And kill just like anyone else. Naruto could still be fair and virtuous like Minato and the Third while actually sticking to the ninja way. In the world Kishi created, Killing is an everyday thing. They easily expect 11 and 12 year old children to be good soldiers and capable of fighting.

Note that in Part 1, No one remarked about how terrible it was to kill someone. Heck, Naruto was all ready to finish both Haku and Gaara off. But now in Part 2, Kishi seems to think that's wrong, Even though it screw up the very universe he himself has created. Kishi is attempting to portrait the actions of Hanzo and Danzo as those of villainous men, When in the Naruto reality and by the rules set by himself for Part 1, Their actions were correct and just. In Part 1, Nagato would be a villain but not because he killed people but because he went against his own village. Kishi has basically thrown away the story about various military forces and replaced it with some Saturday morning hero story.

I would also like to point out that the basic story of a underdog fighting against all odds have been completely forgot. Not only is Naruto "destined" to save the world (Which totally goes against Part 1, And makes his whole speech to Neji meaningless), But the whole Jinchuuriki storyline has become nothing more then a MacGuffin to push the plot into Part 2 and involve Naruto.

~Heaven Help Us~
16th May 2009, 4:08 PM
You think they'll show when Pain kills Hanzo?

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
16th May 2009, 5:14 PM
You think they'll show when Pain kills Hanzo?

Don't give Kishi ideas, I just want this series of pointless flashbacks to end.
What's next? We get to see Kakashi telling his Dad EVERY detail of his life?

'So yeah Dad, on the morning of September 27th I got up at around 6:03am, I reluctantly got out of bed and proceeded to eat a very delicately prepared nutritious breakfast before working out in ways impossible for an actual person. Then I brushed my teeth using my magic toothbrush that can brush through a mask. Then I sat around for an hour, reading Make out Tactics knowing I had to meet my team at 6:30am. Then I headed over to the memorial monument and thought about Obito for about five hours, before finally heading out to see my team at around 11:40am, however, on my way I had to do some grocery shopping which took another hour. I finally saw my team at about 1pm, of course they weren't happy, and neither was I - they'd ran out of my favourite brand of apples....'

you get the point...

~Heaven Help Us~
16th May 2009, 5:23 PM
Don't give Kishi ideas, I just want this series of pointless flashbacks to end.
What's next? We get to see Kakashi telling his Dad EVERY detail of his life?

'So yeah Dad, on the morning of September 27th I got up at around 6:03am, I reluctantly got out of bed and proceeded to eat a very delicately prepared nutritious breakfast before working out in ways impossible for an actual person. Then I brushed my teeth using my magic toothbrush that can brush through a mask. Then I sat around for an hour, reading Make out Tactics knowing I had to meet my team at 6:30am. Then I headed over to the memorial monument and thought about Obito for about five hours, before finally heading out to see my team at around 11:40am, however, on my way I had to do some grocery shopping which took another hour. I finally saw my team at about 1pm, of course they weren't happy, and neither was I - they'd ran out of my favourite brand of apples....'

you get the point...

Yes, i get your point.

Shadow Lucario
16th May 2009, 5:51 PM
Note- Emo Rant Below, Read at own risk:
The problem with this is that the Hokage's are ninjas too, And kill just like anyone else. Naruto could still be fair and virtuous like Minato and the Third while actually sticking to the ninja way. In the world Kishi created, Killing is an everyday thing. They easily expect 11 and 12 year old children to be good soldiers and capable of fighting.

Note that in Part 1, No one remarked about how terrible it was to kill someone. Heck, Naruto was all ready to finish both Haku and Gaara off. But now in Part 2, Kishi seems to think that's wrong, Even though it screw up the very universe he himself has created. Kishi is attempting to portrait the actions of Hanzo and Danzo as those of villainous men, When in the Naruto reality and by the rules set by himself for Part 1, Their actions were correct and just. In Part 1, Nagato would be a villain but not because he killed people but because he went against his own village. Kishi has basically thrown away the story about various military forces and replaced it with some Saturday morning hero story.

I would also like to point out that the basic story of a underdog fighting against all odds have been completely forgot. Not only is Naruto "destined" to save the world (Which totally goes against Part 1, And makes his whole speech to Neji meaningless), But the whole Jinchuuriki storyline has become nothing more then a MacGuffin to push the plot into Part 2 and involve Naruto.

The only reason Naruto wanted to kill Haku was because he was in Kyubi mode. Remember when he went back to himself? He couldn't bring himself to kill Haku. With Gaara, yes Naruto wanted to kill him but he couldn't. Naruto could barely move. When he got close enough to kill him Sasuke stopped him saying it was over.

There is no evidence that says Kishi thinks killing is wrong. Look at Pain. He killed Shizune, almost killed Chouza, and possibly killed Kakashi. I don't think he thinks killing is wrong. Not only Pain, but Team Gai killed the Suna ninja posing as Kisame and Team Kakashi killed the other posing as Itachi. Where is the proof that he wants Hanzo and Danzo portrayed as villans? Just because they made Nagato go insane? That would also make Itachi a villan. He made Sasuke go insane and bent on revenge. Killer Bee is another fine example that Kishi does not think killing is wrong in the Naruto world. If it were not for Karin, Jugo and Suigetsu then Sasuke would be dead. Remember he put a hole in his neck and chest. Killing is part of Naruto and just because the main character doesn't want to kill one person does not mean the author is going against what he created.

If you're talking about how Naruto said that people create their own destiny then no it doesn't make it meaningless. Nagato can still kill Naruto. Then he wouldn't save the world. I do not know of this Jinchuriki storyline you speak of. The only thing involving the Jinchuriki was the sealing of them by Akatsuki, killing them.

TsukiMirage
17th May 2009, 12:22 AM
The only reason Naruto wanted to kill Haku was because he was in Kyubi mode. Remember when he went back to himself? He couldn't bring himself to kill Haku. Naruto was already out of Kyuubi mode and was about to kill Haku when Haku stopped him to go save Zabuza.


There is no evidence that says Kishi thinks killing is wrong. Look at Pain. He killed Shizune, almost killed Chouza, and possibly killed Kakashi. I don't think he thinks killing is wrong. Not only Pain, but Team Gai killed the Suna ninja posing as Kisame and Team Kakashi killed the other posing as Itachi. Killer Bee is another fine example that Kishi does not think killing is wrong in the Naruto world. If it were not for Karin, Jugo and Suigetsu then Sasuke would be dead. Remember he put a hole in his neck and chest. Killing is part of Naruto and just because the main character doesn't want to kill one person does not mean the author is going against what he created. Well, I have no idea how Kishi feels about actual killing, But storywise, It's pretty clear he's trying to shy away from it. So far a main character hasn't killed in Part 2 except for the Kisame and Itachi clones, Which is questionable because we don't know whether they were actually alive at the time or if they were some kind of modified corpses as it was implied that they could never return to normal. Naruto's "answer" pretty much implies that he will not kill anyone else, And his destiny to "change" the world means that by the end of the series, Ninjas will no longer be needed or wanted.

There's a difference between having a villain kill someone and having a hero kill someone. What does it really matter that some side characters that are barely shown died. Quite honestly, I could care less about either Asuma or Chouza. The one time he could have had an actual character's death have an impact and he revives her the next chapter. And for what. There were several other character's he could have killed to push Naruto into Rokubi form, Like Iruka, Whose closer to Naruto then Hinata ever was.

It's not just the main character but the other protagonists. Sasori impels himself on purpose, Deidara self-destructs, Hiden being buried alive, Orochimaru being sealed inside Susanoo, Itachi dying from his illness. The only ones actually shown to kill someone on purpose was Kakashi and Suigetsu.

Yes, Kirabi did knock Sasuke close to death several times, And each time a convenient plot device saved him. And considering his importance to the story, I hardly though that Sasuke would actually died. Even with Kakashi, Who should by all logic be dead, Can still be revived by some idiotic reason if Kishi wants because his death has yet to be confirmed in the story.


Where is the proof that he wants Hanzo and Danzo portrayed as villans? Just because they made Nagato go insane? That would also make Itachi a villan. He made Sasuke go insane and bent on revenge. As for Hanzo and Danzo, None of their actions were strange considering the world they live in but Kishi is attempting to make them a big deal. Ever since he was introduced, Everyone has made a big deal about him wanting to be Hokage and how evil he is. So Danzo wants to be Hokage, What's the big deal. Isn't that something one is suppose to strive after? So he trains orphans to be prefect soldiers, How does that make him any different from the other teachers. Hanzo's actions were perfectly reasonable. Yahiko's group was a rogue faction attempting to overtake his country. But because he betrayed them (Which was stupid for them to believe him anyway), That is the horrible events that led to Pain. I don't even want to begin with the deal between Sasuke and Itachi.


If you're talking about how Naruto said that people create their own destiny then no it doesn't make it meaningless. Nagato can still kill Naruto. Then he wouldn't save the world. I do not know of this Jinchuriki storyline you speak of. The only thing involving the Jinchuriki was the sealing of them by Akatsuki, killing them. But we all know Nagato won't kill Naruto. Even skipping over how that would affect the actual story, Naruto has already been shown to possess superior power to Nagato and immunity to Nagato's abilities. Anyway, He's the Child of Prophecy, Which means he didn't create his own destiny. Everything Naruto has did was meant to happen. His whole speech to Neji about making his own destiny no longer means anything.

As for the Jinchuuriki, When we left part 1, It was implied that Part 2 would be a great clash between the Jinchuuriki and Akatsuki. But all we got is a bunch of S rank ninjas being taken out by a bunch of children who apparently outclass those who have more skills and knowledge and an important piece of the series is totally skipped over as if they mean nothing.

MarshtompMan
17th May 2009, 1:06 AM
Choza isn't dead.
Choji told Tsunade that he died, but she said he's fine.
Then, he asked about Kakashi and Tsunade said,"...Just hurry, Choji...".

Shadow Lucario
17th May 2009, 1:22 AM
Choza isn't dead.
Choji told Tsunade that he died, but she said he's fine.
Then, he asked about Kakashi and Tsunade said,"...Just hurry, Choji...".

No one said Chouza was dead and Kakashi hasn't actually been confirmed dead.

MarshtompMan
17th May 2009, 1:27 AM
Naruto was already out of Kyuubi mode and was about to kill Haku when Haku stopped him to go save Zabuza.

Well, I have no idea how Kishi feels about actual killing, But storywise, It's pretty clear he's trying to shy away from it. So far a main character hasn't killed in Part 2 except for the Kisame and Itachi clones, Which is questionable because we don't know whether they were actually alive at the time or if they were some kind of modified corpses as it was implied that they could never return to normal. Naruto's "answer" pretty much implies that he will not kill anyone else, And his destiny to "change" the world means that by the end of the series, Ninjas will no longer be needed or wanted.

There's a difference between having a villain kill someone and having a hero kill someone. What does it really matter that some side characters that are barely shown died. Quite honestly, I could care less about either Asuma or Chouza. The one time he could have had an actual character's death have an impact and he revives her the next chapter. And for what. There were several other character's he could have killed to push Naruto into Rokubi form, Like Iruka, Whose closer to Naruto then Hinata ever was.

He said it right where I bolded.
And I didn't say Kakashi was confirmed dead, I just quoted what Tsunade said.
But I do believe he's dead.
Why wouldn't Tsunade say to Choji, "He's in bad shape, but he might survive.", instead of making Choji think Kakashi's dead.
Same with when Naruto returned.

TsukiMirage
17th May 2009, 5:33 AM
I never meant it as Chouza being dead. I just wanted to point out that I wouldn't care if he had dead from Pain, The same way I don't care how Asuma died. They were barely secondary character's who role was pointless whatever they did.

Kamex
17th May 2009, 7:40 AM
He said it right where I bolded.
And I didn't say Kakashi was confirmed dead, I just quoted what Tsunade said.
But I do believe he's dead.
Why wouldn't Tsunade say to Choji, "He's in bad shape, but he might survive.", instead of making Choji think Kakashi's dead.
Same with when Naruto returned.
Because she thinks he's dead.

MarshtompMan
17th May 2009, 10:42 PM
Tsunade's an expert medic, she would know if Kakashi had at least a small chance of living, and she wouldn't make them think that there was no chance at all.

Horoika1
17th May 2009, 11:00 PM
Yep, I agree with MarshtompMan.

Kakashi is DEAD! Accept it already.

Wolverine13
17th May 2009, 11:05 PM
Yep, I agree with MarshtompMan.

Kakashi is DEAD! Accept it already.

Yeah kakashi is dead. Or there could be an entire arc about naruto traveling to the spirit world to rescue kakashi the jinchuuriki and jiraiya. Face it he's dead people.

Shadow Lucario
18th May 2009, 12:20 AM
Tsunade's an expert medic, she would know if Kakashi had at least a small chance of living, and she wouldn't make them think that there was no chance at all.

Tsunade didn't even see Kakashi. How would she know if he was dead without seeing him? Why would Kishi kill off a character just to kill him when he contributed more to the plot than Asuma and give Asuma a more touching death? You cannot say he is dead. You can say he might be dead, but nothing is for sure right now. So let's throw this out the window for now until it has been 100% confirmed.

TsukiMirage
18th May 2009, 12:36 AM
I want Kakashi to be dead and would say he is, But this is Kishi we're talking about, Who decided to have a profess serial killer "miss" stabbing a immobile girl at point blank range, So it wouldn't surprise me that Kakashi somehow survives.

Shadow Lucario
18th May 2009, 1:04 AM
I want Kakashi to be dead and would say he is, But this is Kishi we're talking about, Who decided to have a profess serial killer "miss" stabbing a immobile girl at point blank range, So it wouldn't surprise me that Kakashi somehow survives.

Pain didn't miss Hinata. He just stabbed her once and left her. Remember, Pain never checks to see if his opponents are dead or not. He just leaves them there

uber gon
18th May 2009, 1:57 AM
Wonder if those rods caused Pain to look so malnurtured?

I'm just diverting from the whole Kakashi is dead argument if anyone wants to know.

Horoika1
18th May 2009, 1:58 AM
Tsunade has Katsuyu on everyone in the village. Katsuyu reported the status of every villager/ninja. Katsuyu was on Kakashi.

Tsunade has a moment of silence when asked about Kakashi, meaning his death! Why would she anguish Chouji if it were not the truth?

TsukiMirage
18th May 2009, 2:20 AM
Pain didn't miss Hinata. He just stabbed her once and left her. Remember, Pain never checks to see if his opponents are dead or not. He just leaves them there

He was standing right above her, So how did he not get a fatal stab? He was gonna kill her, But he didn't go for the head or heart?

Also, What's that about Pain not checking his opponents? If you're referring to Jiraiya, That's much different. Jiraiya seem to bring himself back from death to continue on and Jiraiya had much more sever wounds.

uber gon
18th May 2009, 2:51 AM
I wonder if there will be more tools in Naruto's arsenal at some point? I'd love to see him with the Rhythm Badge from Sonic Adventure.:)

HoennMaster
18th May 2009, 3:28 AM
How about everyone just shuts up and stops talking about Kakashi already?

Kamex
18th May 2009, 3:29 AM
Tsunade's an expert medic, she would know if Kakashi had at least a small chance of living, and she wouldn't make them think that there was no chance at all.
Hey, there's a million different 'reasons' Kishi could possibly think of for Tsunade being wrong. Or for her to lie. Or something. In any case, all I'm saying is that there's a chance that he can still be alive, because the author can do whatever he wants in his own story.

But I suppose there's no point in talking about this anymore. We'll find out sooner or later about Kakashi's fate, and then we can move on.

Shadow Lucario
18th May 2009, 3:38 AM
Also, What's that about Pain not checking his opponents? If you're referring to Jiraiya, That's much different. Jiraiya seem to bring himself back from death to continue on and Jiraiya had much more sever wounds.

I'm not referring to Jiraiya. I'm talking about everyone Pain fights in general. Both times we have seen Pain fight someone and he seemingly kills them he never checks. Take Hinata. He just stabbed her and left her without checking to see if she was actually dead or not.

TsukiMirage
18th May 2009, 4:12 AM
I'm not referring to Jiraiya. I'm talking about everyone Pain fights in general. Both times we have seen Pain fight someone and he seemingly kills them he never checks. Take Hinata. He just stabbed her and left her without checking to see if she was actually dead or not.

Who else are you referring to? We've only seen him "kill" two people. And to be fair, Considering Naruto transformation, Pain won't have had the time to check Hinata.

Kamex
18th May 2009, 4:28 AM
I'm not entirely sure Pain really cared whether Hinata lived or died. He was just trying to show Naruto more pain by making an example of her, IIRC.

Shadow Lucario
18th May 2009, 4:31 AM
Who else are you referring to? We've only seen him "kill" two people. And to be fair, Considering Naruto transformation, Pain won't have had the time to check Hinata.

That's because we've only seen him fight twice. Like Kamex, I don't think he cared if Hinata survived or not. He wouldn't gain anything from her dying and he wouldn't lose anything if she survived

TsukiMirage
18th May 2009, 4:45 PM
That's because we've only seen him fight twice. Like Kamex, I don't think he cared if Hinata survived or not. He wouldn't gain anything from her dying and he wouldn't lose anything if she survived

Well, Yeah, But I just wanted to point out that there's little evidences to backup the idea of Pain not checking. It's true Pain wouldn't care, But you think someone who committed genocide and possess a hatred of Konoha would be able to kill one immobile girl, If for no other reason then she was a ninja of Konoha.

uber gon
18th May 2009, 8:31 PM
Wonder if Pein will have some final *** pull summon that will look like some Cthulu rip-off? I'm betting $5 on it.

mefistus
19th May 2009, 1:47 AM
does anyone feel that this series is close to it's end? I kind of feel things winding down. None of the high tension is there. Everyone knows nagato's dying. after that, its just madara and sasuke, who will, i presume, die VERY close together. Suigetsu kills kisame, for what it's worth, and everyone re-builds konoha. And also, naruXhina loving (unless naruto took her "love" out of context, in a desperate shot at comic relief by kishimoto)

TsukiMirage
19th May 2009, 4:32 AM
Sasuke won't die. It's evident that out of all the characters Kishi favors him the most, With Shikamaru as second. As for the NaruHina thing, I think it's a little much for that. One confession doesn't make a couple.

Kamex
19th May 2009, 5:29 AM
does anyone feel that this series is close to it's end? I kind of feel things winding down.
Things are definitely winding down, but that doesn't necessarily mean the series is 'close to its end', depending on what exactly you mean by that.


Sasuke won't die. It's evident that out of all the characters Kishi favors him the most
Favoring a character could also mean you want to do what's best for the story with said character. Which means maybe he will die...

Shadow Lucario
19th May 2009, 5:42 AM
Sasuke won't die. It's evident that out of all the characters Kishi favors him the most

I don't see any signs of Kishi favoring Sasuke. I read he is his favorite to draw but not his favorite character. I think if Sasuke was his favorite he would have more attention on him.

Kamex
19th May 2009, 5:47 AM
I don't see any signs of Kishi favoring Sasuke. I read he is his favorite to draw but not his favorite character. I think if Sasuke was his favorite he would have more attention on him.
I think a lot of people do think he gets too much attention.

Shadow Lucario
19th May 2009, 5:55 AM
I think a lot of people do think he gets too much attention.

We haven't even seen him for more than twenty chapters, give or take.

HoennMaster
19th May 2009, 5:58 AM
But before that it was almost every chapter.

Naruto can't end up with Hinata, he needs to be with Sakura.

Kamex
19th May 2009, 6:04 AM
I don't dislike Sasuke much myself. But I have to admit, before the current Pain arc we're finishing now, Sasuke was featured a great deal... perhaps more than the titular character.

TsukiMirage
19th May 2009, 11:07 AM
I don't see any signs of Kishi favoring Sasuke. I read he is his favorite to draw but not his favorite character. I think if Sasuke was his favorite he would have more attention on him.

Kishi has alot of attention on him, Considering Naruto's whole role before this arc was chasing after him like a love stuck puppy.

Most of Naruto's appearances has been him training to catch up, Which I've like to point out is one of the single most stupid things Kishi has ever done, But that's beside the point. So far Sasuke has taken the role of main character and doing many of the things Naruto should have did.

If you look at the story arcs, You would see how they are treated next to each other:
Rescue Gaara- 33
Search for Sasuke- 25
Hiden and Kakuzu- 31
Hunt for Uchiha- 55
Senjutsu Training- 15
Hawk vs Hachibi- 7
Aside from the Rescue Gaara and Hiden/Kakuzu arcs, They have centered around Sasuke. Most of the chapters about Naruto after the Search for Sasuke is him training, While Sasuke was going around taking out Akatsuki members, Getting a deep explanation of the past, Gaining new powers, Completing his goal, And being significant to the story.

Shadow Lucario
19th May 2009, 11:17 PM
Kishi has alot of attention on him, Considering Naruto's whole role before this arc was chasing after him like a love stuck puppy.

He's like a brother to him. Would you just let someone go like that?



Most of Naruto's appearances has been him training to catch up, Which I've like to point out is one of the single most stupid things Kishi has ever done, But that's beside the point. So far Sasuke has taken the role of main character and doing many of the things Naruto should have did.

So Naruto should have killed Itachi, killed Orochimaru, and fought Kirabi?



If you look at the story arcs, You would see how they are treated next to each other:
Rescue Gaara- 33
Search for Sasuke- 25
Hiden and Kakuzu- 31
Hunt for Uchiha- 55
Senjutsu Training- 15
Hawk vs Hachibi- 7
Aside from the Rescue Gaara and Hiden/Kakuzu arcs, They have centered around Sasuke.

So I guess Sasuke went through some Senjutsu training huh?


Most of the chapters about Naruto after the Search for Sasuke is him training, While Sasuke was going around taking out Akatsuki members, Getting a deep explanation of the past, Gaining new powers, Completing his goal, And being significant to the story.

Sasuke only fought Deidara and Itachi both of which he didn't kill. You can't blame Naruto for training. Before the Senjutsu training he wouldn't stand a chance against Sasuke. For Naruto to complete his current goal he needs to train and train hard.

Mawile XD
20th May 2009, 1:21 AM
All of these are just theories; we'll never know whether this is a habit or not until we see Pain kill more people. The people he killed either posed no threat to him, or were long gone. He's an S rank ninja, on a mission; I doubt he cares about the lives of minions.

Alloute
20th May 2009, 1:28 AM
If I may say?

This arc really surprised me, I never thought that Konoha would be destroyed like that.

Also, I never thought I'd see Naruto lose control of the Kyuubi. I was shocked to see the Kyuubi's 8-tailed form

TsukiMirage
20th May 2009, 1:39 AM
He's like a brother to him. Would you just let someone go like that? Yes, If it endangered my own safety and they made it perfectly clear they did not want to return.


So Naruto should have killed Itachi, killed Orochimaru, and fought Kirabi? No, But that still left 5 Akatsuki members Kishi could have let Naruto handle. Even the one Naruto did face wasn't a real battle, Just Naruto using a single technique over and over again while Kakuzu did little more then sit there.


So I guess Sasuke went through some Senjutsu training huh? Huh? What are you saying?


Sasuke only fought Deidara and Itachi both of which he didn't kill. You can't blame Naruto for training. Before the Senjutsu training he wouldn't stand a chance against Sasuke. For Naruto to complete his current goal he needs to train and train hard. I can blame Naruto for training. He should not have to train. The Time Skip should have been more then enough time to train.

At the end of Part 1, Naruto and Sasuke were more or less equal, Depending on how you want to see it. At most, Naruto was slightly weaker then Sasuke. Ok, Then we leave for two and a half years. Shortly upon return, Naruto looks to have improved but that is soon proven a lie.

Both Naruto and Sasuke were train by a Sannin and had equal time to train, More so then Sakura, Who I'd like to point out improved greatly. Both of them had something to drive them on, Sasuke's revenge and Naruto's desire to save Sasuke. But upon his first fight, Naruto has shown no new skills or anything. Then he has to be walk through both the basics of elemental training and creating a new jutsu by Kakashi (Which makes no since, Seeing as Jiraiya was able to train the Ame trio who had zero ninja abilities compared to Naruto in the same time frame) just to catch up to Sasuke.

I won't get into the whole Kyuubi vs Senjutsu thing, Just have to point out that if Naruto had control of the Kyuubi, He wouldn't need Sage Mode.

Shadow Lucario
20th May 2009, 6:29 AM
Huh? What are you saying?

You said the only arcs that didn't focus on Sasuke were the Rescue Gaara arc and the Hidan/Kakuzu arcs. It was meant as a kind of joke




I can blame Naruto for training. He should not have to train. The Time Skip should have been more then enough time to train.

At the end of Part 1, Naruto and Sasuke were more or less equal, Depending on how you want to see it. At most, Naruto was slightly weaker then Sasuke. Ok, Then we leave for two and a half years. Shortly upon return, Naruto looks to have improved but that is soon proven a lie.

Yes they were equal when they entered their respective powered up forms. If it weren't for the Kyubi then Naruto wouldn't be able to stand up to Sasuke and if Sasuke never got the Cursed Seal he would have gone back to Konoha that day.




Both Naruto and Sasuke were train by a Sannin and had equal time to train, More so then Sakura, Who I'd like to point out improved greatly. Both of them had something to drive them on, Sasuke's revenge and Naruto's desire to save Sasuke. But upon his first fight, Naruto has shown no new skills or anything. Then he has to be walk through both the basics of elemental training and creating a new jutsu by Kakashi (Which makes no since, Seeing as Jiraiya was able to train the Ame trio who had zero ninja abilities compared to Naruto in the same time frame) just to catch up to Sasuke.

You have to remember Sasuke is a natural born genius, being of the Uchiha Clan, so he learns everything fairly easy. He also has Sharingan which is a very helpful tool when training



I won't get into the whole Kyuubi vs Senjutsu thing, Just have to point out that if Naruto had control of the Kyuubi, He wouldn't need Sage Mode.

If he had control of it Sasuke wouldn't have left Konoha, now would he?

Alloute
20th May 2009, 7:06 AM
I am just going to post here and nobody will notice.

Kyuubi, so old, Senjutsu, so boring. I wanted to see some new techniques...

Kamex
20th May 2009, 9:08 AM
Yes, If it endangered my own safety and they made it perfectly clear they did not want to return.
Well the whole point of Naruto being so persistent in wanting to save his close friend is that it's part of Kishi's whole plan in making Naruto Hokage-material. Naruto not going after Sasuke and just forgetting about him would be sort of against the flow of the story itself...

Just sayin'.

uber gon
20th May 2009, 9:31 AM
I am just going to post here and nobody will notice.

Kyuubi, so old, Senjutsu, so boring. I wanted to see some new techniques...

Naruto just masterd the Rasenshuriken. I think that's a pretty good technique. Besides Naruto probably will get some new scroll with some more tools soon.

TsukiMirage
20th May 2009, 11:07 AM
You said the only arcs that didn't focus on Sasuke were the Rescue Gaara arc and the Hidan/Kakuzu arcs. It was meant as a kind of joke. Ah, Missed that.


You have to remember Sasuke is a natural born genius, being of the Uchiha Clan, so he learns everything fairly easy. He also has Sharingan which is a very helpful tool when training That argument doesn't fly for two reasons. One: Naruto was able to master several high-level jutsus in a short time frame, Two of those Jiraiya taught him, So the fact Naruto came back with nothing new makes no sense. Two: Even with the Sharingan, That wouldn't have given Sasuke all the Chidori jutsus he has or anything else he has shown, So it's clear that Sasuke did more then just copy Orochimaru. In fact, If you compare the Sannins and their students, Sasuke is the only one to not mimic his teacher.


If he had control of it Sasuke wouldn't have left Konoha, now would he? Well, I was talking more about how he "supposedly" gain control of it during the Time Skip. That was the main reason Naruto went to train with Jiraiya. But Naruto started going crazy in two-tail form.


Well the whole point of Naruto being so persistent in wanting to save his close friend is that it's part of Kishi's whole plan in making Naruto Hokage-material. Naruto not going after Sasuke and just forgetting about him would be sort of against the flow of the story itself...

Just sayin'. It's fine at the beginning to try and bring him back, But after Sasuke attempted to kill him the first and second time, He should have backed off some. Especially since Orochimaru was dead, Meaning Sasuke wasn't threaten anymore.

Horoika1
20th May 2009, 11:50 PM
Because I still see a flaw in the plot-line: IF Naruto brings Sasuke back, so what? Nothing is going to change and Sasuke will still be unhappy.

That's why I come to the conclusion that Sasuke will die. There is NO other place for him anymore except become the antagonist after Madara.

TsukiMirage
21st May 2009, 12:01 AM
I see the opposite happening. Naruto dying to protect Konoha and bring peace to the world. It would seem poetic since that's what the Hokages would do. Then Sasuke would take up Naruto's dream, In that way it would mirror what both Naruto and Nagato did.

Alloute
21st May 2009, 12:05 AM
Hmm hmm hmm.

I think Naruto is so awesome, I do hope he becomes Hokage one day and I hope Konohamaru becomes a Hokage aswell, that would be swell.

Horoika1
21st May 2009, 1:38 AM
I see the opposite happening. Naruto dying to protect Konoha and bring peace to the world. It would seem poetic since that's what the Hokages would do. Then Sasuke would take up Naruto's dream, In that way it would mirror what both Naruto and Nagato did.

That, in my opinion, is the cheesiest thing ever come up with. This is my OPINION! No offense.

shiny gible
21st May 2009, 1:42 AM
Naruto has the potential right now to be the Hokage
I mean he surrpassed Jiraiya and Tsunade and he is almost at the level his father is at

I don't think Sasuke really cares about becoming Hokage he just wants to get stronger and stronger but I wonder what will Sasuke do after he gets his revenge?

TsukiMirage
21st May 2009, 2:52 AM
That, in my opinion, is the cheesiest thing ever come up with. This is my OPINION! No offense.

No, You're right. It is cheesy. That's why I can see it happening. That seems like the kind of ending Kishi is going after. Especially with the whole "chosen child destined to bring peace to the world" thing. You just know Kishi is gonna try to have everything end all happily.

Horoika1
21st May 2009, 3:14 AM
Actually, I see him having the capability of having a tragic ending. He's killed Jiraiya and Kakashi, which were major supporting protagonists.

Shadow Lucario
21st May 2009, 5:31 AM
He's killed Jiraiya and Kakashi, which were major supporting protagonists.

Once more Kakashi has not been stated as dead. His current status is unknown.

Raging Flame
21st May 2009, 8:17 AM
Seems like nobody will accept Kakashi's death untill they see the burial.

Alloute
21st May 2009, 8:22 AM
Seems like nobody will accept Kakashi's death untill they see the burial.

*FACEPALM*

He isn't dead. It has NOT been confirmed yet. He may survive, the chances are high.

HoennMaster
21st May 2009, 8:24 AM
Again, let's just not mention it. Do we honestly need to go through this every week?

Alloute
21st May 2009, 8:28 AM
I wanted to see a flashback of Obito and Rin but oh well, it'll never happen.

TsukiMirage
21st May 2009, 11:44 AM
Actually, I see him having the capability of having a tragic ending. He's killed Jiraiya and Kakashi, which were major supporting protagonists.
Jiraiya's death was necessary to make Naruto more serious. Beside, Jiraiya's death was hardly tragic considering he died happily.

Spoiler Confirmed:

タイトル 形見
Title: "Memento"

背表紙はオロチ丸
Spine of book is Orochimaru.

小説をみてある台詞をナルトがしゃべる
In the chapter can be seen the speech of Naruto.
その台詞に長門が反応
Nagato responds to this speech.
それはかつて師にむかって喋った事だった.
That is what teacher talked about. (Translator's NOTE: Not quite sure about this. ).
小説の最後にはこの本を書くヒントをくれた長門に感謝している事を
長門に告げる
A hint was given to me, written in the end of the story in a book. Naruto tells Nagato that he's thankful. (Translator's NOTE: Something along Naruto being thankful to Nagato of reminding him of the ending of the book.)
ここから小説の話へ
And then, to the story...
小説の主人公が長門になり自分が主役になっている物語が始まる
The protagonist in the story becomes Nagato. He is portraying the lead role. The story begins. (Translator's Note... Yes, I know, it doesn't make any sense. The translation should be pretty close, though.).
最後に自分の名前を喋りかけたとき
This time they're talking about his name.
ナルトが 「ナルトだ」
Naruto "It's Naruto".
といった時長門はわれに返る
Upon that being said, Nagato returns to himself.

同じ師に学び~…俺とお前なら分かり合えると
Studying under the same teacher... You and I understand each other.
冗談で言ったんだが…
You must be joking...

車椅子から手を抜き印を結び始める長門
From the wheelchair, without hands, Nagato's starting a seal
「お前を…信じてみたくなった…うずまきナルト!」
"You... I tried to believe in you.... Uzumaki Naruto!"


The End.

簡単ですまんな
That's it, simply.

But this is the Important part:

岸本氏情報 7月3日名画集発売。尾獣の謎などついき明らかに~

News on Kishimoto: July 3rd will see the release of his new artbook. The mysteries of the Bijuu and such will finally be revealed! Info on the Bijuus will be released in July.

~Heaven Help Us~
21st May 2009, 10:03 PM
Jiraiya's death was necessary to make Naruto more serious. Beside, Jiraiya's death was hardly tragic considering he died happily.

Spoiler Confirmed:


But this is the Important part:
Info on the Bijuus will be released in July.

Where can i get those artbook things online?

TsukiMirage
21st May 2009, 10:09 PM
It won't come out til the 3rd of July. And the scans will probably be out the week after that. I can't wait.

Alloute
21st May 2009, 10:16 PM
Bijuus? Why now? They are all dead except for 6 of them....

TsukiMirage
21st May 2009, 10:47 PM
Bijuus? Why now? They are all dead except for 6 of them....

You mean 2 are still alive. I'm guessing it just to actually reveal what they were since t seems unlikely he'll do it in the manga itself.

~Heaven Help Us~
21st May 2009, 10:56 PM
It won't come out til the 3rd of July. And the scans will probably be out the week after that. I can't wait.

Yeah but i know that there have been previous ones right?

TsukiMirage
22nd May 2009, 12:21 AM
Yeah but i know that there have been previous ones right?

I don't think so, At least not to my knowledge.

uber gon
22nd May 2009, 12:35 AM
So I guess Nagato vs. Naruto is on now. Who DIDN'T see that coming?

Alloute
22nd May 2009, 12:37 AM
you mean 2 are still alive. I'm guessing it just to actually reveal what they were since t seems unlikely he'll do it in the manga itself.

3 alive, killer bee, gaara, naruto :/

TsukiMirage
22nd May 2009, 1:08 AM
3 alive, killer bee, gaara, naruto :/

Gaara no longer has Shukaku, So it's only the two.

Shadow Lucario
22nd May 2009, 1:38 AM
There has been one artbook of Naruto. It's only of the first part though. You can probably buy it at a Barnes and Noble site or the store itself.

Horoika1
22nd May 2009, 3:13 AM
What support do you all have for the idea that Kakashi is still alive?

My support is that why would Tsunade keep silent? To torture Chouji and Naruto?

MarshtompMan
22nd May 2009, 3:32 AM
What support do you all have for the idea that Kakashi is still alive?

My support is that why would Tsunade keep silent? To torture Chouji and Naruto?

Exactly my point.
And don't say Tsunade doesn't know because I find it strange that the most skilled medic can't tell if someone's alive or not.
I thought Kakashi was a good character too, but you have to let it go.

Shadow Lucario
22nd May 2009, 3:44 AM
The fact that it hasn't said he is dead yet. Also, we still don't know how he obtained Mangekyou Sharingan. Why is it so hard to accept that there is a chance he could be alive? We're not saying he is alive and will walk away from it. We are saying there is a possibility and just because a medic stays quiet about him doesn't mean he's dead. And saying Tsunade doesn't now is support because she doesn't. She wasn't standing right next to him. She can't go to Sage Mode.

uber gon
22nd May 2009, 4:07 AM
How long are we going to talk about Kakshi being dead? Sheesh.

TsukiMirage
22nd May 2009, 4:46 AM
The fact that it hasn't said he is dead yet. Also, we still don't know how he obtained Mangekyou Sharingan. Why is it so hard to accept that there is a chance he could be alive? We're not saying he is alive and will walk away from it. We are saying there is a possibility and just because a medic stays quiet about him doesn't mean he's dead. And saying Tsunade doesn't now is support because she doesn't. She wasn't standing right next to him. She can't go to Sage Mode. Just to point out, We can find out about his MS the same why we found out about Kakuzu and Hiden's power. Also, Tsunade had a slug on him so there's no reason she shouldn't have known.


There has been one artbook of Naruto. It's only of the first part though. You can probably buy it at a Barnes and Noble site or the store itself. I think the book will be more akin to a databook then an artbook, Since it was said that more info will be revealed in it. `

Alloute
22nd May 2009, 4:50 AM
Gaara no longer has Shukaku, So it's only the two.

BUT he is still alive, admit that you are wrong hun.

Anyway, chapter is out, I received the scans a few minutes ago, boring chapter.

TsukiMirage
22nd May 2009, 5:34 AM
BUT he is still alive, admit that you are wrong hun.

Anyway, chapter is out, I received the scans a few minutes ago, boring chapter.

How am I wrong. You say 6 of the Bijuu were dead. Gaara no longer have his Bijuu, So only Hachibi and Kyuubi are alive. I think you're thinking of the Jinchuuriki.

Something I didn't notice before, But that skirt Konan wares is really short. Liking the return of the Ame kiddies.

Alloute
22nd May 2009, 7:24 AM
Still very boring, and the ending made the whole story weird. Nagato just happened to change his mind?

HoennMaster
22nd May 2009, 8:44 AM
This thread has become rather tense lately.

Kind of a stupid chapter. I predict that either Naruto and Nagato are going to have a very short fight, or Nagato will give something to Naruto and then die. Either way...cliche.

Alloute
22nd May 2009, 8:46 AM
This thread has become rather tense lately.

Kind of a stupid chapter. I predict that either Naruto and Nagato are going to have a very short fight, or Nagato will give something to Naruto and then die. Either way...cliche.

It's a predictable(sp?) ending, but I am glad that Nagato saw reason at last.

I wonder what Sasgay and Tobi are up to....

uber gon
22nd May 2009, 10:16 AM
I wonder what Sasgay and Tobi are up to....

Probably something entirely Uchiha exclusive.

Shadow Lucario
22nd May 2009, 4:26 PM
Isn't Sasuke going to Konoha? I'm afraid that he is going to hit a tree on the way though. If he couldn't pick up a glass of water that is a couple inches in front of him I highly doubt he can jump from tree to tree

uber gon
22nd May 2009, 4:27 PM
Isn't Sasuke going to Konoha? I'm afraid that he is going to hit a tree on the way though. If he couldn't pick up a glass of water that is a couple inches in front of him I highly doubt he can jump from tree to tree

Would be pretty funny though. And a kick for Sasuke haters.

MarshtompMan
22nd May 2009, 7:31 PM
Isn't Sasuke going to Konoha? I'm afraid that he is going to hit a tree on the way though. If he couldn't pick up a glass of water that is a couple inches in front of him I highly doubt he can jump from tree to tree

Sasuke of the Jungle. :D

uber gon
22nd May 2009, 9:33 PM
Sasuke of the Jungle. :D

He better watch out for those trees.:p

Alloute
22nd May 2009, 9:49 PM
Lol, Sasgay will be so angry when he sees the destroyed village. He'll be like "Dammit!! I knew we shouldn't have stopped for tacos!!"

And Sugetsu will be like "Ain't my fault, those tacos are soooooo good."

And Karin will be like "Suigetsu this is all your fault!!!" and she will proceed to beating him, again....

TsukiMirage
22nd May 2009, 11:02 PM
It's funny that Nagato has chosen to believe in Naruto's idea, Even though he had the same idea years ago. Even though all those years ago, Nagato discovered that just having faith didn't work, He's gonna trust in Naruto? Kishi is trying too hard to connect the two.

Alloute
22nd May 2009, 11:41 PM
I wish people would just enjoy the damn manga.

Kishi this, and Kishi that. It's so freakin' annoying.

Nagato-chan is willing to trust Naruto, it's very weird but just roll with it :/

Shadow Lucario
22nd May 2009, 11:54 PM
I wish people would just enjoy the damn manga.

Kishi this, and Kishi that. It's so freakin' annoying.

Nagato-chan is willing to trust Naruto, it's very weird but just roll with it :/

I hear ya. As long as the story is enjoyable and makes sense then I'm fine

Blaziryu
22nd May 2009, 11:57 PM
WHAT!? Oh man, this week's chapter was awful. Nagato's change of heart is a major disappointment. I hope he's just pulling Naruto's leg when he say that he believes in him.

Shadow Lucario
23rd May 2009, 12:04 AM
I highly doubt Nagato would lie. I don't think him saying he believes in Naruto is a disappointment at all. They both want the same thing, but have different ways of attaining it. Nothing disappointing about that at all

MarshtompMan
23rd May 2009, 12:13 AM
I'm still mad that Naruto forgave him even though he killed Jiraiya, Kakashi and probably a few unimportant people, and cause Danzo to kill that poor messenger frog. *Tear*

Shadow Lucario
23rd May 2009, 12:16 AM
I'm still mad that Naruto forgave him even though he killed Jiraiya, Kakashi and probably a few unimportant people, and cause Danzo to kill that poor messenger frog. *Tear*

Not going to say anything about the bolded text.

Poor nameless messenger frog! *wails* We'll never forget you!

TsukiMirage
23rd May 2009, 12:32 AM
I wish people would just enjoy the damn manga.

Kishi this, and Kishi that. It's so freakin' annoying.

Nagato-chan is willing to trust Naruto, it's very weird but just roll with it :/

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy the story and all, But there are limits to what Kishi should be doing. Nagato suddenly believing in Naruto after he already tried the whole "faith in peace" thing is one thing, But it doesn't fit in with the world Kishi has created.

Beside, This is a forum, Which means not everyone's gonna have the same opinion.

Alloute
23rd May 2009, 12:39 AM
Will Nagato and Naruto join forces once and for all? Maybe Tsunade will heal Nagato and they'll become allies in the fight against the Uchiha.

I was thinking, that the jutsu that Nagato will use might be some sort of time/space jutsu that will reconstruct the village.

P.S. I was merely making a point, on these forums and on other forums, some people start to whine about the storyline :/

MarshtompMan
23rd May 2009, 12:43 AM
Actually, his name was Kosuke.

Alloute
23rd May 2009, 12:48 AM
Actually, his name was Kosuke.

Yeah, the little toad was Kosuke....

Anyways, anyone have any ideas on what will happen next week?

MarshtompMan
23rd May 2009, 12:49 AM
^Maybe Nagato will rebuild the village with some jutsu.

Alloute
23rd May 2009, 12:50 AM
^Maybe Nagato will rebuild the village with some jutsu.

Lol, that was my idea ^_^

TsukiMirage
23rd May 2009, 1:04 AM
I hope not, Because Nagato just magically bring everyone back would be stupid and a crappy excuse for him to be a good guy.

~Heaven Help Us~
23rd May 2009, 1:10 AM
I actually liked Nagato's change of heart. The only problem was that it happened a lil bit too fast.

Maybe that Jutsu he is gonna do will revive Kakashi and restore the village!

Edit: wow, i really need to read more of you people's posts.

MarshtompMan
23rd May 2009, 1:17 AM
I hope not, Because Nagato just magically bring everyone back would be stupid and a crappy excuse for him to be a good guy.

Repairing the village doesn't mean raising the dead.

HoennMaster
23rd May 2009, 1:18 AM
Nagato dies, eventually Naruto becomes Hokage, makes a deal with the Rain village, it becomes a prosperous village and Naruto fills Nagato's promise. :)

Guarantee it will happen.

Alloute
23rd May 2009, 1:24 AM
Nagato dies, eventually Naruto becomes Hokage, makes a deal with the Rain village, it becomes a prosperous village and Naruto fills Nagato's promise. :)

Guarantee it will happen.

Maybe.

Hope he doesn't die however, Tobi would be free to do as he pleases....

TsukiMirage
23rd May 2009, 1:44 AM
Repairing the village doesn't mean raising the dead.

The difference is? You're still reconning the story to have a happy ending.

Alloute
23rd May 2009, 1:49 AM
Lalala....

Sasgay is up next, Naruto will have to fight him.

Does anyone else think that Tobi will order Sasgay to capture Naruto???

TsukiMirage
23rd May 2009, 1:54 AM
Lalala....

Sasgay is up next, Naruto will have to fight him.

Does anyone else think that Tobi will order Sasgay to capture Naruto???

Probably not. Even if Madara actually wanted him, They would still need Kirabi and the Hachibi first. Not only that, But now that Nagato is on Naruto's side, Madara no longer has access to the King of Hell statue, Thus no access to the other Bijuus. Besides, Sasuke really doesn't need a reason to fight Naruto.

Alloute
23rd May 2009, 1:57 AM
Probably not. Even if Madara actually wanted him, They would still need Kirabi and the Hachibi first. Not only that, But now that Nagato is on Naruto's side, Madara no longer has access to the King of Hell statue, Thus no access to the other Bijuus. Besides, Sasuke really doesn't need a reason to fight Naruto.

But everyone and their Grandma think that Sasuke and Naruto will fight again.

Tobi is clever, he'll find a way to capture Naruto. The Akatsuki isn't just going to stop hunting Bijuu...

sam40400
23rd May 2009, 2:14 AM
Now that Nagato may be on Naruto's side, the Akutsuki may collapse, but it isnt the end, I mean what about Kisame and Madara, and Tobi? or in Orochimaru's side, I haven't heard Kabuto's back story

TsukiMirage
23rd May 2009, 2:21 AM
But everyone and their Grandma think that Sasuke and Naruto will fight again.

Tobi is clever, he'll find a way to capture Naruto. The Akatsuki isn't just going to stop hunting Bijuu...

Oh, Sasuke and Naruto will fight. But Sasuke doesn't need a reason to fight against Naruto.

Unless Madara can summon the King of Hell himself, Then it doesn't matter what he wants. The King of Hell has all the sealed Bijuus and that's under Nagato's control.

Alloute
23rd May 2009, 2:22 AM
Now that Nagato may be on Naruto's side, the Akutsuki may collapse, but it isnt the end, I mean what about Kisame and Madara, and Tobi? or in Orochimaru's side, I haven't heard Kabuto's back story

No, probably not, Tobi formed Akatsuki, so it won't collapse

HoennMaster
23rd May 2009, 2:24 AM
I think everyone is jumping the gun on Nagato, we don't know exactly what he is planning.

Alloute
23rd May 2009, 2:27 AM
I think everyone is jumping the gun on Nagato, we don't know exactly what he is planning.

We do not know, but either way we are predicting, that is what usually happens here.

sam40400
23rd May 2009, 2:29 AM
No, probably not, Tobi formed Akatsuki, so it won't collapse

But isn't Tobi the latest member?
I thought Madara created it or sumthing...

Alloute
23rd May 2009, 2:32 AM
But isn't Tobi the latest member?
I thought Madara created it or sumthing...

Tobi IS Madara, read the manga....

TsukiMirage
23rd May 2009, 4:07 AM
There's honestly quite alot of confusion as to who formed Akatsuki. I believe Yahiko was the one who form the basic idea behind it, But that's my opinion.

Regardless, Akatsuki in it's current form is finished. Madara may well form a new Akatsuki with a new goal, But both from his own words and the facts that Nagato retains control over them, It seems that the Bijuus won't be of any used.

Shadow Lucario
23rd May 2009, 9:28 AM
Now I don't think Sasuke will fight Naruto. He isn't interested in Naruto so he would have no reason to unless Naruto forced him into a fight.

Didn't Madara use the King of Hell statue without Pain to try and seal the fake Hachibi? I don't think he needs Pain/Nagato to use it.

I also believe Yahiko created the concept of Akatsuki. Their little organization and Akatsuki have the same goal and a leader who wanted to be a deity.

Alloute
23rd May 2009, 9:44 AM
Now I don't think Sasuke will fight Naruto. He isn't interested in Naruto so he would have no reason to unless Naruto forced him into a fight.

Didn't Madara use the King of Hell statue without Pain to try and seal the fake Hachibi? I don't think he needs Pain/Nagato to use it.

I also believe Yahiko created the concept of Akatsuki. Their little organization and Akatsuki have the same goal and a leader who wanted to be a deity.

So either Tobi lied AGAIN, or Pain/Nagato lied.

"The bijuu won't be used". Give me a break, the whole Part 2 is about the capture of the bijuu and their hosts...

HoennMaster
23rd May 2009, 1:30 PM
I just wonder what will happen at the end of the story, will the Beasts be freed, or remained sealed.

Horoika1
23rd May 2009, 3:01 PM
Anyone notice the ?(question mark) ninja in the flashback? I found that sooo funny

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/448/10/

lucky_u
23rd May 2009, 3:32 PM
Anyone notice the ?(question mark) ninja in the flashback? I found that sooo funny

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/448/10/

Didn't notice it till you mentioned it. Where did that guy come from?XD
But I thought I remembered it as a Konoha ninja, or is it another imagination of mine?

Shadow Lucario
23rd May 2009, 4:53 PM
I noticed it and said he was from the question mark village

HoennMaster
23rd May 2009, 5:03 PM
I forgot to mention that, it made me laugh. Village Hidden in the Question Mark.

Alloute
23rd May 2009, 6:06 PM
Yes, a freakin' question mark, let's throw a parade....

Does anyone have any valid ideas/speculations?

~Heaven Help Us~
23rd May 2009, 7:07 PM
Anyone notice the ?(question mark) ninja in the flashback? I found that sooo funny

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/448/10/

I would have never noticed.

TsukiMirage
23rd May 2009, 9:34 PM
The ?nin was the guy from the story, Same as was with Naruto. I actually like Nagato's version of the fight better then Naruto's version.

uber gon
24th May 2009, 7:19 AM
Yes, a freakin' question mark, let's throw a parade....

Does anyone have any valid ideas/speculations?

Nagato might be giving Naruto some wind manipulation tools for Naruto's use. Heh maybe Naruto could get nunchucks that can bash someone's brain's out with the spped of wind. Well that, or maybe a scroll that will teach Naruto to make wind clones. That would be pretty brutal.

Alloute
24th May 2009, 7:27 AM
Nagato might be giving Naruto some wind manipulation tools for Naruto's use. Heh maybe Naruto could get nunchucks that can bash someone's brain's out with the spped of wind. Well that, or maybe a scroll that will teach Naruto to make wind clones. That would be pretty brutal.

Yes.

Anyway, um, yeah the arc is almost over. So Sasuke is next, so is Tobi, Killer Bee, and the Kages maybe.

Kamex
24th May 2009, 7:56 AM
I actually liked Nagato's change of heart. The only problem was that it happened a lil bit too fast.
I agree, it was a good idea, but it would have been more genuine had it taken more persuasion on Naruto's part, or more soul-searching on Nagato's part, or more events to unfold to lead up to it. I mean you can't go from trying to create the closest thing to world peace by being the craziest mass-murder that ever lived that wants to be the world's deity - to trusting a fifteen year old kid in accomplishing the same goal in a heartbeat.

Anyway, I think we're finally going to see some other characters again. Who do you think will arrive in (what's left of) Konoha first, the three Cloud ninja or Hawk?

Alloute
24th May 2009, 8:02 AM
His "change of heart" happened too fast. He needed time to think about peace, but as always it was rushed...

~Heaven Help Us~
24th May 2009, 5:34 PM
I agree, it was a good idea, but it would have been more genuine had it taken more persuasion on Naruto's part, or more soul-searching on Nagato's part, or more events to unfold to lead up to it. I mean you can't go from trying to create the closest thing to world peace by being the craziest mass-murder that ever lived that wants to be the world's deity - to trusting a fifteen year old kid in accomplishing the same goal in a heartbeat.

Anyway, I think we're finally going to see some other characters again. Who do you think will arrive in (what's left of) Konoha first, the three Cloud ninja or Hawk?

Sasuke will probably get mad at Madara for letting this Pain destroy Konoha, because it was Sasuke who wanted to do that.

TsukiMirage
24th May 2009, 8:58 PM
Sasuke just wanted to kill Danzo and the Elders. And now that Danzo has become a villain, He will kill him without worry.

MarshtompMan
24th May 2009, 9:02 PM
Danzo was always a villan.
And the elders are senile idiots.

~Heaven Help Us~
24th May 2009, 9:09 PM
Sasuke just wanted to kill Danzo and the Elders. And now that Danzo has become a villain, He will kill him without worry.

No, remember when he was like "I'm gonna Crush Konoha" he meant all of it right? not just Danzou and the retard Elders

TsukiMirage
24th May 2009, 9:09 PM
Danzo was always a villan.
And the elders are senile idiots.

The actions Danzo has taken are hardly villainous and fit the world that they live in. The Elder's were doing their job, Making sure the Hokage is doing what best for Konoha. The whole "having faith" argument is ridiculous. It's one thing to have hope, But to rely on someone without any proof is dumb.

Horoika1
24th May 2009, 10:07 PM
What if Madara = Danzou? It'd be perfect!

It would demonstrate that Madara had carefully orchestrated everything for since a long time ago. He as Danzou corrupted Nagato; he ordered the Uchiha Massacre and then takes part in it himself!

TsukiMirage
24th May 2009, 10:14 PM
What if Madara = Danzou? It'd be perfect!

It would demonstrate that Madara had carefully orchestrated everything for since a long time ago. He as Danzou corrupted Nagato; he ordered the Uchiha Massacre and then takes part in it himself!

Quite honestly, I would prefer that not to happen. It would just seem so easy, That all the villain's are one person. But on that note, I can see Kishi doing that.

Horoika1
25th May 2009, 12:18 AM
It would be perfect, but then again, if it does come to pass, I just predicted it.

Alloute
25th May 2009, 12:19 AM
Lalala, Madara/Tobi/Obito/Danzo/Shisui/Izuna talk makes me head explode...

MarshtompMan
25th May 2009, 12:36 AM
The actions Danzo has taken are hardly villainous and fit the world that they live in. The Elder's were doing their job, Making sure the Hokage is doing what best for Konoha. The whole "having faith" argument is ridiculous. It's one thing to have hope, But to rely on someone without any proof is dumb.

He killed a frog and prevented his army form helping Konoha just to become hokage.
Evil.


What if Madara = Danzou? It'd be perfect!

It would demonstrate that Madara had carefully orchestrated everything for since a long time ago. He as Danzou corrupted Nagato; he ordered the Uchiha Massacre and then takes part in it himself!


It would be perfect, but then again, if it does come to pass, I just predicted it.

I've been saying Madara/Tobi/Obito/Danzo/Tsunade for months.
(Although the Tsunade part was just a joke.)

Alloute
25th May 2009, 12:38 AM
Lalalala, if you all keep talking about freakin' Tobi/Madara/Danzo/Obito/Tsunade, this topic will be closed ^_^

TsukiMirage
25th May 2009, 2:34 AM
He killed a frog and prevented his army form helping Konoha just to become hokage.
Evil.
Considering the actions of Ororchimaru, Madara, And Nagato, I'ld hardly call those evil. He kill the frog to prevent Akatsuki from gaining the Kyuubi should Konoha fall. As for his Anbu forces, Considering how unstoppable Pain was, Why send them to their death. Besides, If Pain took out the whole Konoha military, That would have left Konoha even more defenseless then it is now.

Actually now that I think about it, How did he kill that frog, I though summons couldn't be killed?

Shadow Lucario
25th May 2009, 2:38 AM
Lalalala, if you all keep talking about freakin' Tobi/Madara/Danzo/Obito/Tsunade, this topic will be closed ^_^

Why would it be closed? It deals with Naruto Shippuden so it's on topic



Actually now that I think about it, How did he kill that frog, I though summons couldn't be killed?

I think the frog was left with Tsunade when Pa frog left with Naruto, so I don't think it was summoned. If you want specifics, he stabbed it :P

Kamex
25th May 2009, 2:44 AM
Sasuke will probably get mad at Madara for letting this Pain destroy Konoha, because it was Sasuke who wanted to do that.
I don't know if it was Pain's original intention to destroy Konoha though. That's just how he went about it in search of the nine-tails jinchuuriki...

I guess you can say Pain's extremely messy and careless (and honestly, it wouldn't have made a difference to him anyway).

Alloute
25th May 2009, 2:47 AM
Lalala, the Mods will get involved if we turn this into a "Who is Tobi?" thread ^_^

Hope everyone had a good weekend.

This weeks chapter made me realize how much I love Naruto

Shadow Lucario
25th May 2009, 2:50 AM
This weeks chapter made me realize how much I love Naruto

The series or the character?

Anyone think we'll see those Cloud ninja soon? I want to know what they are capable of.

MarshtompMan
25th May 2009, 2:55 AM
Considering the actions of Ororchimaru, Madara, And Nagato, I'ld hardly call those evil. He kill the frog to prevent Akatsuki from gaining the Kyuubi should Konoha fall. As for his Anbu forces, Considering how unstoppable Pain was, Why send them to their death. Besides, If Pain took out the whole Konoha military, That would have left Konoha even more defenseless then it is now.

Actually now that I think about it, How did he kill that frog, I though summons couldn't be killed?

It wasn't about Akatsuki catching Naruto, it was about Naruto saving the village. (Which Danzo didn't want.)

And about Tobi also being Shisui and Izuna, I highly doubt that.
Him being Shisui will make no sense, but there's a small chance he's Izuna, but I don't think so.

Alloute
25th May 2009, 2:58 AM
The series or the character?

Anyone think we'll see those Cloud ninja soon? I want to know what they are capable of.

I meant both, but not in a sexual way :/

Shadow Lucario
25th May 2009, 2:59 AM
Izuna gave up his eyes though. We saw Tobi had an eye.

TsukiMirage
25th May 2009, 2:59 AM
I think the frog was left with Tsunade when Pa frog left with Naruto, so I don't think it was summoned. If you want specifics, he stabbed it :P
Hmm, You might be right. The only reason I ask was because we've seen other summons "kill" and they just pop away, But hi not actually being summoned would make sense.


Anyone think we'll see those Cloud ninja soon? I want to know what they are capable of.
Considering the treatment of other characters, I wouldn't hope for much. Especially since they would be going up against the Sharingan.


It wasn't about Akatsuki catching Naruto, it was about Naruto saving the village. (Which Danzo didn't want.) Why wouldn't Danzo want to save the village? It's kind of hard to rule something if it doesn't exist. Besides, With Naruto's track record, Why would anyone believe he could beat Pain (And don't bring in Senjutsu)?

Shadow Lucario
25th May 2009, 3:01 AM
Considering the treatment of other characters, I wouldn't hope for much. Especially since they would be going up against the Sharingan.

If they have the same skill as Kirabi then I don't think it matters if Sasuke has Sharingan. Kirabi destroyed him

TsukiMirage
25th May 2009, 3:08 AM
If they have the same skill as Kirabi then I don't think it matters if Sasuke has Sharingan. Kirabi destroyed him
Kirabi was a Jinchuuriki, Which meant he had enhanced skills and the Sharingan was useless. Besides, Sasuke was trying to bring him back alive. If Sasuke when against the Kumo ninjas, He has no reason to hold back.

MarshtompMan
25th May 2009, 3:23 AM
Hmm, You might be right. The only reason I ask was because we've seen other summons "kill" and they just pop away, But hi not actually being summoned would make sense.


Considering the treatment of other characters, I wouldn't hope for much. Especially since they would be going up against the Sharingan.

Why wouldn't Danzo want to save the village? It's kind of hard to rule something if it doesn't exist. Besides, With Naruto's track record, Why would anyone believe he could beat Pain (And don't bring in Senjutsu)?

Someone asked Danzo why he would want the village people killed, since he would have nothing to rule.
Danzo replied that Katsuyu would save most of the people and with the village itself in a weakened state, as well as Tsunade, he would dethrone her and become hokage.

Kamex
25th May 2009, 3:32 AM
What if Kishi actually ended the story with Naruto dying and Danzo becoming Hokage? This story is supposed to be an inspiring shounen, not dramatically tragic, so that would be quite the random downer.

But it sure would be somethin' else, eh?

TsukiMirage
25th May 2009, 6:43 AM
Someone asked Danzo why he would want the village people killed, since he would have nothing to rule.
Danzo replied that Katsuyu would save most of the people and with the village itself in a weakened state, as well as Tsunade, he would dethrone her and become hokage.

Yeah, And if Akatsuki got the Kyuubi, Then all five villages would have been destroyed, People and all. Thus, Danzo tried to stop Naruto from returning to Konoha.

Alloute
25th May 2009, 6:45 AM
Lalala Mods come quickly....

Izuna? Lol, why did you guys bring up Tobi and Danzo again? There is always an argument about these two...

Horoika1
25th May 2009, 3:23 PM
Actually, Kamex, that's what I'm hoping but with Sasuke dying as well. Tragic Endings = Finite endings.

No stupid fan-made sequels possible!

TsukiMirage
25th May 2009, 5:51 PM
Actually, Kamex, that's what I'm hoping but with Sasuke dying as well. Tragic Endings = Finite endings.

No stupid fan-made sequels possible!
Considering the main theme has become forgiveness no matter what, I hardly think Sasuke will die.

~Heaven Help Us~
25th May 2009, 6:44 PM
Considering the main theme has become forgiveness no matter what, I hardly think Sasuke will die.

Isn't Sasuke Kishi's favorite character? If it is, then he definitely won't kill him off.

MarshtompMan
25th May 2009, 6:52 PM
Yeah, And if Akatsuki got the Kyuubi, Then all five villages would have been destroyed, People and all. Thus, Danzo tried to stop Naruto from returning to Konoha.

Sure, but that wasn't the only reason.
And if Madara is Danzo, I can't wait to see Sasuke's face when he reveals it.

Shadow Lucario
25th May 2009, 7:10 PM
Isn't Sasuke Kishi's favorite character? If it is, then he definitely won't kill him off.

No he is not. This has not been stated anywhere.

TsukiMirage
25th May 2009, 7:16 PM
Sure, but that wasn't the only reason.
And if Madara is Danzo, I can't wait to see Sasuke's face when he reveals it.
What other reasons? Danzo didn't want the Kyuubi to fall into the hands of another. Tsunade being disgraced was just a bonus.

Also, You realize there's a flaw in the Danzo being Madara idea: Danzo being a Konoha ninja would mean he had to be born and grew up in Konoha.

MarshtompMan
25th May 2009, 7:28 PM
^He's always wanted to take over the village.
That's why he's getting the elders in the palm of his hands (Or should I say hand), that's why he wanted the Uchihas eliminated, and that's why he doesn't want to help the village.
By the way, at least in the Viz version, when Danzo is telling his members not to help the village, a poster can be seen that says "Yamato Works".
Strange.

~Heaven Help Us~
25th May 2009, 7:36 PM
Sure, but that wasn't the only reason.
And if Madara is Danzo, I can't wait to see Sasuke's face when he reveals it.

For some reason i thought that the only way for Sasuke to defeat Madara is if he joins up with Naruto.

TsukiMirage
25th May 2009, 7:56 PM
^He's always wanted to take over the village.
That's why he's getting the elders in the palm of his hands (Or should I say hand), that's why he wanted the Uchihas eliminated, and that's why he doesn't want to help the village.
By the way, at least in the Viz version, when Danzo is telling his members not to help the village, a poster can be seen that says "Yamato Works".
Strange.

Danzo wants something more then just to be Hokage. He doesn't have the Elders "in the palm of his hand". They just agree with his way of thinking. The Elders have the power to elect someone to be Hokage, So if Danzo really wanted to be Hokage, They would have made him one years ago. But Danzo didn't want to be Hokage until recently.

The Uchiha clan was killed because they were gonna start a civil war. It had nothing to do with Danzo personally. As stated by Itachi, Hundreds would have died.

Danzo didn't send his Anbu out because it would have been pointless against Pain and their deaths would have meant that there was one one to protect the village afterward.

P.S. The Yamato Works sign is in the original manag too.

Horoika1
25th May 2009, 9:31 PM
Umm....no. Danzo always wanted to be Hokage. Remember Nagato's flashback that Danzou teamed up with Hanzou to gain reputation to become Hokage<--*hint hint*

MarshtompMan
26th May 2009, 12:48 AM
Danzo wants something more then just to be Hokage. He doesn't have the Elders "in the palm of his hand". They just agree with his way of thinking. The Elders have the power to elect someone to be Hokage, So if Danzo really wanted to be Hokage, They would have made him one years ago. But Danzo didn't want to be Hokage until recently.

The Uchiha clan was killed because they were gonna start a civil war. It had nothing to do with Danzo personally. As stated by Itachi, Hundreds would have died.

Danzo didn't send his Anbu out because it would have been pointless against Pain and their deaths would have meant that there was one one to protect the village afterward.

P.S. The Yamato Works sign is in the original manag too.

Did Danzo say he didn't want them to die because the village would have no defense?
No.

Did Danzo say he didn't want them to fight because if they didn't help save the village it would suffer damages that would pave the way for him to become hokage?
Yes.

Alloute
26th May 2009, 1:07 AM
I had a mango yesterday, I'll have cherries today for lunch....

I hate Sasuke, Tobi, and anything that no longer has to do with Konoha, change the subject...

MarshtompMan
26th May 2009, 1:24 AM
Just because you don't like the topic, you want us to stop talking about it?
If you don't want to see it, then don't read it.
This is a free thread, you can't tell us what to talk about.

Horoika1
26th May 2009, 1:42 AM
Someone is becoming a bit conceited here >.>

I still stick to my Danzou=Madara theory. It would make the entire series perfect. Two villains does not seem to work because Danzou, as of right now, looks like some ego-centered person who wants power and not someone with an ulterior motive.

bigpop618
26th May 2009, 2:01 AM
WHAT!? Oh man, this week's chapter was awful. Nagato's change of heart is a major disappointment. I hope he's just pulling Naruto's leg when he say that he believes in him.

How was it a disappointment? The way I see it it's to be expected. Everyone..and I mean everyone said that Naruto has this power to become friends with everyone...and put everyone on his side. If anything I saw it coming a mile away.

TsukiMirage
26th May 2009, 3:12 AM
Umm....no. Danzo always wanted to be Hokage. Remember Nagato's flashback that Danzou teamed up with Hanzou to gain reputation to become Hokage<--*hint hint* Kishi honestly sucks at forshadowing, Anyhow-
First off, How would Nagato know what Danzo was planning and how would Hanzo controlling Ame help him in any way? Nagato was most likely presuming that was the reason Danzo was helping Hanzo's forces.

The forces Danzo sent to Ame was much to large to not be known by the Konoha council, So I find it hard to believe that Danzo did everything without their knowledge.

There's also the fact that if Danzo wanted to be Hokage, Why not try after the Third died. Konoha was without rule for a month, More then enough time to gain the title. It was already stated that the reason Tsunade became Hokage was because there was no one else.


Did Danzo say he didn't want them to die because the village would have no defense?
No.
Did Danzo say he didn't want them to fight because if they didn't help save the village it would suffer damages that would pave the way for him to become hokage?
Yes. What exactly are we arguing about? As far as Danzo knew, Naruto wasn't in the village, So there's no reason to waste men trying to beat Pain, Since once he found out Naruto was gone, He would have no reason to stay. It's hardly possible to believe Danzo knew what Pain could do (i.e. Shinra Tensei), So he most likely expected a few deaths, And many the death of Tsunade. Because the Hokage would fight against a strong opponent personally. And Danzo would assume that she would either die or be severely weaken, Which mean the village would need someone else to step up.

The overall reason for Danzo actions is Danzo wants something, And to get that he needs to be Hokage. Danzo collected all his Anbu below ground because Pain would have devastated them all and left Danzo with no military force. He's allowing Tsunade to use up her forces so that nothing can get in his way. It doesn't matter to him whether Tsunade stops Pain or not. Her overall forces will mostly be weaken and it'll be easy for Danzo to set up his own. He try to stop Naruto from returning to prevent Akatsuki from gaining the Kyuubi should Tsunade fail.

Kamex
26th May 2009, 7:33 AM
Considering the main theme has become forgiveness no matter what, I hardly think Sasuke will die.
Just because Sasuke's forgiven - and even changes his ways and flips back to being a hero -doesn't mean he can't die. In fact, I think it would make a lot of sense for him to risk and ultimately lose his life in atonement, perhaps in battle against Madara.

Alloute
26th May 2009, 7:40 AM
Just because you don't like the topic, you want us to stop talking about it?
If you don't want to see it, then don't read it.
This is a free thread, you can't tell us what to talk about.

You all discuss this and nothing else, doesn't anyone have anything else to discuss that isn't about Danzo/Tobi?

I'm Pming a Mod about this, why? This is seriously turning into a Tobi/Danzo speculation thread, and no longer a Naruto Manga discussion.


There are many other characters or ideas to discuss :/

HoennMaster
26th May 2009, 8:24 AM
I can see Danzo and Madara being the same, and yet I can't at the same time. Strange really.

Honestly, no matter what happens to Sasuke it's going to be cliche and upset most people. He doesn't really have many options.

Alloute
26th May 2009, 8:26 AM
I can see Danzo and Madara being the same, and yet I can't at the same time. Strange really.

Honestly, no matter what happens to Sasuke it's going to be cliche and upset most people. He doesn't really have many options.

Did you make the banner yourself?

On topic: Wonder if Tsunade will be alright...

HoennMaster
26th May 2009, 8:52 AM
What banner?

I bet she will be a little better once we see her again. It's been a while since she released her chakra, so I'm guessing she's had some time to recover.

Shadow Lucario
26th May 2009, 8:59 AM
You all discuss this and nothing else, doesn't anyone have anything else to discuss that isn't about Danzo/Tobi?

I'm Pming a Mod about this, why? This is seriously turning into a Tobi/Danzo speculation thread, and no longer a Naruto Manga discussion.


There are many other characters or ideas to discuss :/

No that is not what everyone posts about and if it is then so what? That would still be Naruto manga discussion as it is happening in the manga right now. Besides, tsukimirage and Marshtompman aren't speculating who Danzo and Tobi are. They are discussing Danzo and his actions.

Cloud ninja? Important? I don't think they'll have a big role. Probably just a little tussle with Sasuke with them ending up getting their butts kicked.

HoennMaster
26th May 2009, 9:05 AM
Almost forgot about them. I hope he doesn't forget about them.

TsukiMirage
26th May 2009, 9:32 AM
Cloud ninja? Important? I don't think they'll have a big role. Probably just a little tussle with Sasuke with them ending up getting their butts kicked. Kishi has blow the power levels so far out that the only way the Kumo nins would be able to keep up would be to make Sasuke a freakin' idiot. As shown with Naruto vs Pain, The future battles will be among a select few. Naruto, Sasuke, And Madara have become the only ones that matter to the actual storyline, And their fights are the only ones that really matter.


Just because Sasuke's forgiven - and even changes his ways and flips back to being a hero -doesn't mean he can't die. In fact, I think it would make a lot of sense for him to risk and ultimately lose his life in atonement, perhaps in battle against Madara. Still can't see Sasuke dying, Especially since he's one of the "chains of hatred". Honestly, I can't see the death of any good character, Especially a young one. Kishi has already caved in once to save Hinata, Whose role in the story is questionable at best. He seems determine to show the younger generation surpassing the old by just killing off their older counterparts. The only good character I can see dying is Tsunade, If only to fit with the other two Sannins and give Sakura a reason to be stronger, Although whether or not she'll need it is another question.

Alloute
26th May 2009, 9:41 AM
What banner?

I bet she will be a little better once we see her again. It's been a while since she released her chakra, so I'm guessing she's had some time to recover.

The one on the freakin' moon, the one in your SIG obviously, I asked if you made it/put it together....

Wonder if she'll surrender her Hokage title to Naruto or another random screw up...

TsukiMirage
26th May 2009, 11:36 AM
Wonder if she'll surrender her Hokage title to Naruto or another random screw up...
No matter what, It's still too soon for Naruto to be Hokage. Besides, Naruto has said he won't become Hokage until he makes Sasuke return.

Horoika1
26th May 2009, 8:56 PM
You all discuss this and nothing else, doesn't anyone have anything else to discuss that isn't about Danzo/Tobi?

I'm Pming a Mod about this, why? This is seriously turning into a Tobi/Danzo speculation thread, and no longer a Naruto Manga discussion.


There are many other characters or ideas to discuss :/

Then start a topic yourself that isn't irrelevant like the Cloud Ninja. There really not enough background information that we can use to speculate.

MarshtompMan
26th May 2009, 9:10 PM
Kishi honestly sucks at forshadowing, Anyhow-
First off, How would Nagato know what Danzo was planning and how would Hanzo controlling Ame help him in any way? Nagato was most likely presuming that was the reason Danzo was helping Hanzo's forces.

The forces Danzo sent to Ame was much to large to not be known by the Konoha council, So I find it hard to believe that Danzo did everything without their knowledge.

There's also the fact that if Danzo wanted to be Hokage, Why not try after the Third died. Konoha was without rule for a month, More then enough time to gain the title. It was already stated that the reason Tsunade became Hokage was because there was no one else.

What exactly are we arguing about? As far as Danzo knew, Naruto wasn't in the village, So there's no reason to waste men trying to beat Pain, Since once he found out Naruto was gone, He would have no reason to stay. It's hardly possible to believe Danzo knew what Pain could do (i.e. Shinra Tensei), So he most likely expected a few deaths, And many the death of Tsunade. Because the Hokage would fight against a strong opponent personally. And Danzo would assume that she would either die or be severely weaken, Which mean the village would need someone else to step up.

The overall reason for Danzo actions is Danzo wants something, And to get that he needs to be Hokage. Danzo collected all his Anbu below ground because Pain would have devastated them all and left Danzo with no military force. He's allowing Tsunade to use up her forces so that nothing can get in his way. It doesn't matter to him whether Tsunade stops Pain or not. Her overall forces will mostly be weaken and it'll be easy for Danzo to set up his own. He try to stop Naruto from returning to prevent Akatsuki from gaining the Kyuubi should Tsunade fail.

I would agree with you on most of these things you post to defend your theory, but the fact of the matter is that DANZO SAID THAT HE DIDN'T WANT HIS ANBU TO HELP THE VILLAGE BECAUSE ITS DESTRUCTION WOULD PAVE THE WAY FOR HIM TO BECOME HOKAGE.
I'm not speculating; I'm just going by what I read.

TsukiMirage
26th May 2009, 9:28 PM
I would agree with you on most of these things you post to defend your theory, but the fact of the matter is that DANZO SAID THAT HE DIDN'T WANT HIS ANBU TO HELP THE VILLAGE BECAUSE ITS DESTRUCTION WOULD PAVE THE WAY FOR HIM TO BECOME HOKAGE.
I'm not speculating; I'm just going by what I read.
I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just saying there's more to it then just that. I know that he plans on taking over, But there's more to his actions then just that one thing.

Danzo would be a fool to try to take over militarily, He's gonna go the political route.

MarshtompMan
26th May 2009, 9:50 PM
I didn't say that there wasn't more to it.
I was just saying that Danzo didn't want the village to be saved because he wanted to be hokage.

TsukiMirage
26th May 2009, 10:18 PM
I didn't say that there wasn't more to it.
I was just saying that Danzo didn't want the village to be saved because he wanted to be hokage.
Can't be Hokage if there's no village, But yeah, I think I know what you're saying.

Well, I'm positive Danzo didn't expect anything like Pain's Shinra Tensei. I'm sure he just expected some damaged buildings and bodies.

MarshtompMan
27th May 2009, 2:47 AM
^Exactly.
He said that Tsunade would protect most of the villagers with Katsuyu.

Kamex
27th May 2009, 4:05 AM
^Exactly.
He said that Tsunade would protect most of the villagers with Katsuyu.
Which is what she did, so I suppose things are mostly going according to his plan.

TsukiMirage
27th May 2009, 5:28 AM
I wouldn't said that. The majority of the village has been trash, And even if Katsuyu protected hem, Tsunade surely lacks the energy to fully heal them all. I think it's quite obvious that Konoha has lost it's place as the most powerful village.

uber gon
27th May 2009, 6:48 AM
Wonder if Naruto will learn how to summon Nagato's creatures? That could be awesome.

Alloute
27th May 2009, 7:15 AM
Wonder if Naruto will learn how to summon Nagato's creatures? That could be awesome.

Not really, he is a toad summoner.

Nagato, Pain, Yahiko, Tobi, Danzo, over and over again, like a Merry-Go-Round.

Now I remember why Naruto lost so many fans, there hasn't been any excitement in years...

TsukiMirage
27th May 2009, 8:07 AM
Wonder if Naruto will learn how to summon Nagato's creatures? That could be awesome.
Naruto barely uses the ones he has. In fact, Since the Gaara fight, Naruto hasn't summoned any frogs himself.

HoennMaster
27th May 2009, 9:03 AM
I doubt Danzo would be able to take over. Even politically. The villagers love Tsunade.


I think it's quite obvious that Konoha has lost it's place as the most powerful village.

Well of course, there's no village.


The one on the freakin' moon, the one in your SIG obviously, I asked if you made it/put it together....

Well you just randomly asked...and yes I did make it, but it's not a banner, it's just three episode screenshots put together.