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Crimsonlink
12th October 2011, 3:52 PM
Epic chapter in quite a while. Loved that Madara appeared in his real form.

I would laugh so hard if the real enemy was the Juubi who took over Zetsu lol.

The edo summons fights are pretty much done which is the only bad part about this chapter since Naruto just comes in and takes care of them. But at least now it goes somewhere besides dead people fighting living people.

7 tyranitars
12th October 2011, 3:55 PM
We don't know for sure Tobi isn't Madara. There's still speculation he is. He's just more obvious of being that "Shell" of his former self. I still think Tobi is Madara and has been working on getting Madara back himself so he can be "Complete" like he said he wanted to be.

Also, nice to see Black Zetsu again, looks like he's not having a hard time at all.

Yeah I am suppose you are right, but I always said that the person in the coffin was Madaras real body.

JetshipperKekkaishi
12th October 2011, 4:07 PM
I was shocked to see Madara alive again. So Tobi isn't Madara. It would be shocking to see who could he can be? If he is a Uchica survior then I gueesing it could be The guy from Kakashi's old teammate. But it is a possible but it is highly unlikely. Beside that Naruto are in four different places. So he can maintain his clones longer than usual. It was an ok chapter. I liked it. And a little moment with Hinata wondering if she did protect Naruto and he said that she saved him twice.

gliscor&yanmega
12th October 2011, 4:10 PM
Yeah I am suppose you are right, but I always said that the person in the coffin was Madaras real body.

I always thought it was Madara's real body too, it's the only character known that I would think give Tobi that shocked look he had.

lucky_u
12th October 2011, 4:34 PM
Ok, I admit I didn't saw that coming.
I'm curious though, where did Kabuto get the DNA sample?

Also, it's interesting to see that Naruto's current form can alter even smell.

Mark1006
12th October 2011, 5:36 PM
Looks like Kishi let M. Night Shyamalan write a chapter or two.

Platinum fan.
12th October 2011, 5:55 PM
The Edo Tensei's are pretty much done for. Oh well, still surprised Naruto had dialogue with Kimimaro and that he knew his name. The whole Madara thing, I herd a theory on another website about Kabuto's secret coffin being Madara's body and with how Tobi/Madara reacted to it, it made sense, plus that volume just came out here so it's fresh on my mind but as to who the masked Madara is it better not be who most people thought it was. Also it was good to see Naruto and Hinata slowly acknowledge the events from the Pain arc.

Shadow Lucario
12th October 2011, 6:35 PM
There's a lot of evidence pointing to Tobi being Obito. It would be nice to see Kakashi's reaction. Speaking of Kakashi I still want to know how he got his Mangekyou Sharingan. That still puzzles me. Same goes for Madara and his brother. Can we just assume you get it through years of training?

JetshipperKekkaishi
12th October 2011, 7:19 PM
There's a lot of evidence pointing to Tobi being Obito. It would be nice to see Kakashi's reaction. Speaking of Kakashi I still want to know how he got his Mangekyou Sharingan. That still puzzles me. Same goes for Madara and his brother. Can we just assume you get it through years of training?

I know that. Obito could possible be Tobi.Kakashi could be shocked. I mean Tobi have only one eye like Kakashi when he gained it from Obito. It will be a big Plot twist since he was seen dead.And he hided his face so it is a possible chance of Obito being Tobi.

TsukiMirage
12th October 2011, 8:14 PM
So powerful he blew the lid off his Edo coffin! I do actually wonder how Edo Madara knew of Nagato, considering the lather wouldn't have even been born when he died. Regardless, Edo Madara's appearance in front of Gaara and gang was simply badass. With Edo Madara making an appearance in front of his clone, I'm sure we'll get to see how Naruto can match up to an Uchiha of his level.

As for the rest of the chapter, the conversation between Naruto and Hinata was alright. At least Naruto finally acknowledged that Hinata saved him that time before. We also get back to Kakashi's division, who have managed to take down all but three Edo summons. Shame we didn't get to see Kakashi's rampage, but we do get to see the sealing technique from Sai that was hinted at. And Naruto basically confirms he can only make a limited number of clones in his chakra mode. It was cool to see that Kimimaro had seemly used his bone forest to spear several samurai from out of the ground. But the most interesting thing is that against Black Zetsu, Naruto looks like he was thrown to a tree. Anyway, we got an update on the various battlefields and the Alliance is basically winning. We also learn that Rinnegan-Madara is heading towards the real Naruto and Kirabi, which sounds like it'll be a wonderful fight. This chapter was just awesome, thought Kishi better have a good explanation for who the mask Madara really is and all the clues that point to him being Uchiha Madara.

Rowdy
12th October 2011, 8:20 PM
I'm actually thinking Tobi could be Fugaku (Sasuke and Itachi's dad). He wasn't at home the night Kyubi attacked (as revealed by little Itachi in that chapter), he said "Now that's my boy" when Sasuke killed Danzo (as Fugaku was known to say towards his sons), and other minor bits besides.

uber gon
12th October 2011, 8:26 PM
Wonder what awesome jutsu this Madara will showcase?

barak446
12th October 2011, 8:39 PM
what you saying is intersting but obiti is dead... you saw the epasoide he crush by a boulder and dead...
tobi is someone else...!

Dawn+Serena Fan
12th October 2011, 9:29 PM
I'm actually thinking Tobi could be Fugaku (Sasuke and Itachi's dad). He wasn't at home the night Kyubi attacked (as revealed by little Itachi in that chapter), he said "Now that's my boy" when Sasuke killed Danzo (as Fugaku was known to say towards his sons), and other minor bits besides.

Didn't Itachi wipe out his entire clan though?

gliscor&yanmega
12th October 2011, 9:46 PM
I don't think people should start assuming Tobi still isn't Madara. Yes Madara just appeared in the form of Edo Tensei. But Tobi could still possible be in some way Madara. He has been talking about himself as if he is a shell of his former self(Madara), so perhaps that's more literal then we would of thought. Zetsu could also have some part in this.

Plus Kisame did refer to Tobi as Madara, so if he were to be someone else then Tobi must have alter his appearance to look exactly like Madara...or Kisame is crazy.

Nagato and Konan called him Madara, and Edo Madara did mention Nagato, so there must be some ties between the two.

There's more to it then we may think. Kishi could simply be setting up another twist, with Tobi really being Madara.

Everything will make sense soon enough though, it's Moon Eye Plan today(Naruto world wise). Tobi plans to carry out the plan, and it can't be very much longer for that, probably will happen at night so it all depends how long Kishi wants to drag this out.

Lorde
12th October 2011, 9:56 PM
what you saying is intersting but obiti is dead... you saw the epasoide he crush by a boulder and dead...
tobi is someone else...!

That's irrelevant, as death means almost nothing in this series (seriously, half of the characters have been revived). I'm not saying that Tobi is definitely Obito, but I don't think you can rule it out just yet. We need more information.


Plus Kisame did refer to Tobi as Madara, so if he were to be someone else then Tobi must have alter his appearance to look exactly like Madara...or Kisame is crazy.

Nagato and Konan called him Madara

It's funny how only the people that Tobi has been in contact with call him Madara. It's almost as if he tells people to call him that.

But anyway, this week's chapter was definitely one of the most exciting chapters so far. I can't wait to see Madara in battle.

luxrayshock
12th October 2011, 10:04 PM
T-o-b-i = o-b-i-t-o

Shneak
12th October 2011, 10:09 PM
Oh my god. That chapter was ****ing amazing. We got a huge update on every battlefield. I'm not going to complain about Naruto killing Kimmimaro and Chiyo in one shot, because we FINALLY got an answer to a vital question.

I knew it was Madara, like many people., but I didn't think the identity of fake/alive(?) Madara would be in question. I'm also thinking it could be Obito, but I don't know. Alive Madara knows way too much for not actually being him.

Wow. For the first time in a long time, I'm extremely excited about Naruto.

Lorde
12th October 2011, 10:17 PM
T-o-b-i = o-b-i-t-o

Well, now I'm convinced. :p


Wow. For the first time in a long time, I'm extremely excited about Naruto.

Same here. I was starting to lose hope in this series since this arc hasn't gone exactly the way I pictured it would, but I think this week's chapter proved that Kishi can still write really good chapters when he wants to. I just hope that he keeps this up for a little while longer; I would hate for him to just switch back to writing mediocre chapters after this week's epic plot-twist.

Shneak
12th October 2011, 10:24 PM
There's a lot that can happen now too. Before this chapter I was fully expecting (Alive) Madara to come to battle with the 6 Jinchuuriki and wipe out everything. Now Alive Madara and Edo Tensei Madara may confront each other. Everyone has been duped by the indentity crisis, including Sasuke. I wonder if Kabuto knows the truth.

I find it funny that Alive Madara is still jumping through the trees, while Naruto can appear spontaneously at various battlefields.

I've read a lot of theories so far on who Tobi could be but there seems to so many correlations with each one. My favourite so far is that he is the son of the Sage of Six Paths that spawned the Uchiha Clan. Now he's imitating his father by having Six Paths and the Rinnegan (because he was the lesser sibling)

Shadow Lucario
12th October 2011, 10:37 PM
I'm actually thinking Tobi could be Fugaku (Sasuke and Itachi's dad). He wasn't at home the night Kyubi attacked (as revealed by little Itachi in that chapter), he said "Now that's my boy" when Sasuke killed Danzo (as Fugaku was known to say towards his sons), and other minor bits besides.

We saw Itachi kill both of his parents. I seriously doubt it's Fugaku.

multi-scale
12th October 2011, 11:20 PM
I loved this chapter. Amazing. Would have been better if my dumb friend hadn't spoiled it.
The man behind the mask...hmmm....I agree with Yanmega&gliscor. We shouldn't rule out weird body switching, and we know it's been done before. We know his strength is nothing less than phenomenal, as Muu said the user must have had a great understanding of the war to use Madara. Maybe the masked man killed Madara and assumed his identity? We also know that his death occurred before Nagato grew up, which means he did in fact survive his battle with Hashirama.
I'm leaning towards the body switching, which means everything the Masked Man said was true. This would also explain why Madara let Orochimaru into the Akatsuki. The main problem is that Madara did not retain any memories from the Masked Man. I really don't want to see the Masked Man to pull and Aizen and say "I lied you idiot why do you believe me hahahahaha".
The main thing is now there is a very muddled timeline between what MAdara did and what the Masked Man did. Did Madara give Nagato the Rinnegan? He did have it as a child. And what killed him? Hashirama, probably the only shinobi who could have fought him on even terms, was dead.
I hope in the next few chapters we see Madara annihilate Gaara's division and defeat Naruto's clone when the Masked Man meet Naruto and Bee. Then Naruto's clone's memory will transfer to the original, leading to a chapter of questionning beofr ehte Masked Man is revealed.

Platinum fan.
12th October 2011, 11:59 PM
I refuse to believe Madara is Obito until I see his face and it is proven. It is possible that Madara has another body, I mean look at Orochimaru and all his "Vessels" and Madara did mention something about Orochimaru knowing more then he ought to about him when he was confronted by Kabuto. Anyway this chapter was so good! I can't wait for the next one.

Rowdy
13th October 2011, 1:28 AM
We saw Itachi kill both of his parents. I seriously doubt it's Fugaku.

Don't forget, we've recently learned that a whole butt-load of Uchiha had gained MS, not just Itachi and Madara as was the original claim. If Fugaku himself obtained it, he could have fooled Itachi into thinking he was dead depending on what type of MS powers he has. And even he if didn't have MS, who's to say Fugaku still didn't trick Itachi that night or simply play dead till Itachi left.

After all, both Sharingan and MS are far from perfect.

Lorde
13th October 2011, 1:42 AM
I refuse to believe Madara is Obito until I see his face and it is proven.

The fact that we haven't seen Tobi's entire face yet is what makes me believe that he's probably someone else, like Obito or Izuna. I don't understand why Kishi would have Tobi cover his entire face unless there is something special underneath. So I'm going to assume that Tobi is another character from the past, but not Madara.

Also, for the sake of avoiding confusion, I'm going to refer to "alive Madara" as Tobi. I've been switching between Tobi and Madara for a long time now, but it looks like I'll have to be more consistent.


I can't wait for the next one.

Watch Madara be sealed right away. :p

peacemaker987
13th October 2011, 2:00 AM
I knew Kishi would reward us for keeping up with this arc; there are many techniques that he could have used, like Nagato's shapeshifting technique and Muu's body splitting technique. iirc Edo brings someone back from the state they were in before death, and dead Madara didn't seem to be that old. Considering alive Madara hasn't exhibited any MS techniques, it could mean that his eyes could have just been any old eyes from his massive collection. Which leads me to think that he could be Shishui, who was also known for his very advanced body flickering technique. It could be like the 4th's hiraishin or alive Madara's migration, as it may apply space/time ninjitsu.

After all, I'm sure it'd be easy for him to fake being drowned. Remember, he didn't have either of his eyes at the time of his "death," so that could explain why he wanted his original eyes.

Platinum fan.
13th October 2011, 2:45 AM
The fact that we haven't seen Tobi's entire face yet is what makes me believe that he's probably someone else, like Obito or Izuna. I don't understand why Kishi would have Tobi cover his entire face unless there is something special underneath. So I'm going to assume that Tobi is another character from the past, but not Madara.

Also, for the sake of avoiding confusion, I'm going to refer to "alive Madara" as Tobi. I've been switching between Tobi and Madara for a long time now, but it looks like I'll have to be more consistent.



Watch Madara be sealed right away. :p

Your so right about Madara being sealed right away. I'll be shocked if he last more then 3 chapters. As for who "Tobi" is it could be anyone. We're all going to be trolled until we see the face behind the mask. I still think it being Obito is far fetched. I mean wasn't he good? And Tobi has interacted with Kakashi a few times now so there clearly isn't any feelings on his side, if anything Kakashi would be the first person he would reveal himself to, for old time sakes at least. There's also the fact that he attacked the village and battled the 4th Hokage aka his old master and I wouldn't think he would be on par with his old master during this stage, I mean Obito wasn't the strongest. Still for all we know it could be Shisui Uchiha. For now I guess any option is open. Kishi really knows how to get the fanbase guessing. I love that. The manga is finally exciting again.

lolipiece
13th October 2011, 3:22 AM
It's called "possession"

It could just be Obito's body..

3lmi
13th October 2011, 3:38 AM
Amazing chapter. The real Madara is summoned and that means Tobi is not really Madara. SO MUCH WIN.

I'm really starting to think it is the First Hokage (Major twist) or even Madara's younger brother ..... I guess we will see soon enough.

Crimsonlink
13th October 2011, 3:40 AM
I'm sticking by the idea that its the Juubi somehow or the Juubi's influence.

3lmi
13th October 2011, 3:41 AM
I'm sticking by the idea that its the Juubi somehow or the Juubi's influence.

Isn't the Juubi sealed in the Moon / SoSP? I guess that if is the Juubi it could help explain Tobi's dimension (maybe it is the inside of the moon?).

Crimsonlink
13th October 2011, 3:42 AM
Most epic troll Kishi could pull off is if its Madara's son or something under Tobi's mask.

3lmi
13th October 2011, 5:25 AM
Most epic troll Kishi could pull off is if its Madara's son or something under Tobi's mask.

Under his mask is .....

another mask

trollface.jpeg

Lorde
13th October 2011, 5:48 AM
A lot of people on other boards seem to think that Tobi is a clone of Madara. Some of those people believe that Madara had an ability similar to Muu's cloning technique, although I hope that's not the case since Muu's cloning ability seems to be unique. Others think that Tobi is a Zetsu clone. That theory has some evidence to back it up, but you'd think that Zetsu would have more control over Tobi if he really was created by him. All I know is that Tobi has become even more mysterious.

7 tyranitars
13th October 2011, 1:35 PM
A lot of people on other boards seem to think that Tobi is a clone of Madara. Some of those people believe that Madara had an ability similar to Muu's cloning technique, although I hope that's not the case since Muu's cloning ability seems to be unique. Others think that Tobi is a Zetsu clone. That theory has some evidence to back it up, but you'd think that Zetsu would have more control over Tobi if he really was created by him. All I know is that Tobi has become even more mysterious.

He said he is only a former shell off himself, so perhaps he transfered himself in some way to a zetsu body, or Tobi is the real Zetsu?

gliscor&yanmega
13th October 2011, 2:10 PM
It's funny how only the people that Tobi has been in contact with call him Madara. It's almost as if he tells people to call him that.

Zetsu has always called him Tobi interestingly enough. Zetsu also seems to know everything about Tobi, even more then Nagato did. Kabuto calls him Tobi too I think, I remember him calling him "Tobi" when he first showed up at Tobi's boneyard place, he obviously knows some stuff too, although I don't think he knows everything.

Regardless, I'd say this is Kishi's biggest twist yet. While a lot of people did think of Madara being in the coffin(Not much to choose from to start with though), it still is a great twist to the story and will create even more chaos in this war for the Alliance to figure out who is Tobi.

I can't see Kabuto living much longer though, once you show your trump card there isn't much use for you. Unless Kabuto is going to be "switching sides", I'd say he's the next villain to die.

barak446
13th October 2011, 4:28 PM
cool a new epasoide today!!

LexSuicune
13th October 2011, 8:34 PM
I'm going with the Theory that Tobi is, in fact, Tobi.

Kakashi's old crushed friend.

ó_ó let me have some hope.

barak446
13th October 2011, 9:18 PM
I still think it madara...
other people doesnt make any sense....

gliscor&yanmega
13th October 2011, 9:21 PM
I'm going with the Theory that Tobi is, in fact, Tobi.

Kakashi's old crushed friend.

ó_ó let me have some hope.

You mean Obito? Because that's what Kakashi's dead childhood friend name is.

Personally, I see no way for that to happen, even in a fiction piece of writing it makes no sense.

barak446
13th October 2011, 9:30 PM
You mean Obito? Because that's what Kakashi's dead childhood friend name is.

Personally, I see no way for that to happen, even in a fiction piece of writing it makes no sense.

you right...
he died by a giant boulder... that crush him to death!!

Kibagos
13th October 2011, 9:54 PM
Well Tobi maybe just is some kind of random guy we have never seen before, but I have to say that I totally want to know the mystery behind Tobi.... ;o

Shneak
13th October 2011, 10:21 PM
Others think that Tobi is a Zetsu clone. That theory has some evidence to back it up, but you'd think that Zetsu would have more control over Tobi if he really was created by him. All I know is that Tobi has become even more mysterious.

The best thing about this is that there is evidence that he could be A Zestu Clone or Obito, and maybe even further, such as Madara's brother and Shisui.

Lorde
13th October 2011, 10:32 PM
I still think it madara...
other people doesnt make any sense....


you right...
he died by a giant boulder... that crush him to death!!

I've already said this, but maybe you missed the post: Death means nothing in this series. Like seriously. Half of the characters have been revived, so the theories about Tobi being Obito or Izuna really aren't strange. I'm not in favor of some of these theories, but as long as there's a chance that they could end up being correct, I won't belittle them.

TsukiMirage
13th October 2011, 11:01 PM
There's still no chance that it's Obito. Don't forget, masked Madara fought Minato about a year or so after Obito's death. There's too big of a difference between the slightly skilled 13 year old Obito and the adult masked Madara who was able to take on and match Minato.

Shneak
13th October 2011, 11:01 PM
^
lol, same time.

It didn't crush him completely. If Tobi is Obito, he could have fixed up his body with Zetsu body parts. But the timeline doesn't correlate.

Another thing to take into account is that Edo Tensei brings back the dead in the body of what they died in. Madara looks 'young', like when he fought Hashirama and lost. Everybody thought he escaped and died off, and it's possible now.

Lorde
13th October 2011, 11:08 PM
There's still no chance that it's Obito. Don't forget, masked Madara fought Minato about a year or so after Obito's death. There's too big of a difference between the slightly skilled 13 year old Obito and the adult masked Madara who was able to take on and match Minato.

If Zetsu is really involved in this, then I wouldn't be surprised if he created a new body for Obito. After all, Obito "died" in the Land of Grass, and Zetsu could be from the Hidden Grass village (that last part is just speculation, but he does seem like he could be a Kusagakure ninja since he specializes in plant-like techniques, plus he has a plant around his head). This Obito and Zetsu theory would also fit with what Zetsu said about Tobi "being a good boy".

As for the issue with Obito's inexperience: Several characters have been able to gain incredible powers within relatively short periods of time. So I wouldn't be surprised if the same happened with Obito if he's really Tobi.

Platinum fan.
14th October 2011, 12:40 AM
I don't like the Obito= Tobi theory but I won't shoot it down because it is possible. Still why he would do all this is beyond me but whatever. I guess we'll all see when the time comes. Are there any good Uchihas other then Itachi? Even he had to murder his clan to keep the ninja world safe or something. I was hoping Obito would be the one good Uchiha left in the world but if he's Tobi then that thought is gone.

Charminions
14th October 2011, 3:30 AM
It was quite an interesting chapter. Now that I think about it, wouldn't there still be a couple Uchiha left? They could've been on a mission during the night Itachi murdered the clan. Also some Uchiha may be rogue ninjas that live in a far off country. If this were to be true, one of them may be Tobi but it isn't likely.

Kamex
14th October 2011, 3:40 AM
Is there a specific, known reason why Edo-Madara has those lines across his face? I don't remember the other resurrected shinobi (nor the original Madara) having that feature. That also brings to mind the bags or wrinkles or whatever under Tobi's eyes (not that the two are related).

Anyway, having seen Tobi's true identity come into question several times now, I can't bring myself to come to any kind of conclusion about who he'll ultimately turn out to be.

In any case, I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy this plot twist.

peacemaker987
14th October 2011, 4:36 AM
Doesn't it sound just like Kishi fto make Shisui to fake his own death and come back disguised as "Madara" to help Itachi murder the Uchiha? I'm still convinced that faking being drowned is fairly easy for him.

Lorde
14th October 2011, 4:41 AM
Doesn't it sound just like Kishi fto make Shisui to fake his own death and come back disguised as "Madara" to help Itachi murder the Uchiha? I'm still convinced that faking being drowned is fairly easy for him.

I don't think that Shisui is Tobi. I thought he might be a long time ago, but I gave up on that theory when we actually saw what Shisui looked like. Itachi also revealed some of Shisui's ideals, and he really didn't seem to be a bad person. The only way that this would make sense is if Shisui was tricking Itachi with genjutsu, but then that would seem too similar to what Sosuke Aizen did in Bleach. :x

Shneak
14th October 2011, 10:15 PM
Is there a specific, known reason why Edo-Madara has those lines across his face? I don't remember the other resurrected shinobi (nor the original Madara) having that feature. That also brings to mind the bags or wrinkles or whatever under Tobi's eyes (not that the two are related).


I think it's a side-effect of the Edo Tensei. It's the skin peeling off. Here's an example:

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110716134219/naruto/images/thumb/6/6d/Akatsuki_ambush_and_distraction_squad.png/489px-Akatsuki_ambush_and_distraction_squad.png

TsukiMirage
14th October 2011, 10:16 PM
If Zetsu is really involved in this, then I wouldn't be surprised if he created a new body for Obito. After all, Obito "died" in the Land of Grass, and Zetsu could be from the Hidden Grass village (that last part is just speculation, but he does seem like he could be a Kusagakure ninja since he specializes in plant-like techniques, plus he has a plant around his head). This Obito and Zetsu theory would also fit with what Zetsu said about Tobi "being a good boy".

As for the issue with Obito's inexperience: Several characters have been able to gain incredible powers within relatively short periods of time. So I wouldn't be surprised if the same happened with Obito if he's really Tobi. Yeah, but there would still be an issue with the amount of knowledge that masked Madara possesses.There's no way Obito could have known all of that. In addition, there's the people that masked Madara have dealt with. Itachi surely would have recognized someone familiar like Obito and Kisame would have met and began working for him long before Obito's death happen. Plus the whole thing about giving Nagato the Rinnegan.

Gaining control of power they already had is much different then suddenly gaining new powers and mastering them within a short time frame.

HoennMaster
14th October 2011, 10:56 PM
Aww this is just starting to get confusing. So would this mean that Madara was the body shown in the hidden coffin before the war started?

Banana Knight Arthur
15th October 2011, 2:26 AM
I'm hoping Tobi is revealed to be a usurper posing as the real Madara.

That would make his character interesting again.

3lmi
15th October 2011, 3:06 AM
I'm starting to think it might be Izuna, Madara's brother.

Also the Obito theory is also interesting.

Lorde
15th October 2011, 3:27 AM
It's odd because I've read tons of Obito theories, but only a few Izuna theories. It seems like the majority of people who believe that Izuna is Tobi aren't exactly sure how it would fit together, but I think there's a good chance that Izuna is behind the mask. I'm just curious as to how Nagato fits into all this; Madara made it sound as if they had met before, and as if Nagato had planned on reviving him at one point with the Rinne Tensei technique.

3lmi
15th October 2011, 3:36 AM
It's odd because I've read tons of Obito theories, but only a few Izuna theories. It seems like the majority of people who believe that Izuna is Tobi aren't exactly sure how it would fit together, but I think there's a good chance that Izuna is behind the mask. I'm just curious as to how Nagato fits into all this; Madara made it sound as if they had met before, and as if Nagato had planned on reviving him at one point with the Rinne Tensei technique.

I think that "Tobi" said that he had 'given' the Rinnegan to him.

Also even those this was a sloppy theory (and I mean extremely sloppy and half-assed), doesn't Madara look like Nagato dad?

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h318/Klue516/Naruto%20Manga%20Pics/15-4.jpg

Here is the link to the real forums (http://www.narutoforums.com/showthread.php?t=771102)

Shadow Lucario
15th October 2011, 9:24 AM
Izuna was shown to have died. It can't be him. Izuna also didn't have any eyes so good luck killing Uchiha without eyes.

LexSuicune
15th October 2011, 9:37 AM
I miss Funny Tobi.

I hope he comes back lol.

Lorde
15th October 2011, 9:41 AM
I think that "Tobi" said that he had 'given' the Rinnegan to him.

Also even those this was a sloppy theory (and I mean extremely sloppy and half-assed), doesn't Madara look like Nagato dad?

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h318/Klue516/Naruto%20Manga%20Pics/15-4.jpg

Here is the link to the real forums (http://www.narutoforums.com/showthread.php?t=771102)

Tobi's comment makes things even more confusing. Because even if we're to assume that Tobi is another Madara, where did he get the Rinnegan to begin with?

And no, I don't think that Madara looks like Nagato's dad.


Izuna was shown to have died.

The same can be said about most of the characters in this arc, yet here we are.

TsukiMirage
15th October 2011, 10:55 AM
There's another theory going around that masked Madara could possibly be Kagami, the Uchiha who was on Danzo's team.

multi-scale
15th October 2011, 6:03 PM
Izuna was shown to have died. It can't be him. Izuna also didn't have any eyes so good luck killing Uchiha without eyes.

Giant eye storage says what.
My problem with the Obito thing is first of all he got smashed. That can be fixed with Zetsu parts and Hashirama's cells. his sharingan gets smashed. Eye storage. Then a year later he fights Minato. I'm more concerned with the fact that Masked Man looks like an adult, whereas Kakashi at the time did not look that big. He would have to undergo some major aging. Then when Kisame began working for Masked Man, he was still shown to be older, which meant (if it occurred after the attack on Konoha) he would have to age or (if it occured before) it wouldn't even be possible. Finally, and the most important point I believe, is Obito would need the Mangekyou sharingan. While it is likely that Obito would have other friends, at the time of Obiot's death it was kind of implied that Kakashi was his best friend. Which means Madara would have had to remove his own Mangekyou sharingan and reimplant them, which seems like a lot of work to take control of a fairly weak 12-13 year old boy.
It would make more sense to have him possess an older body (if possession is involved at all). The Nagato's father theory has a credible point; it would explain how Nagato got the Rinnegan as a child. Still, it's too unlikely. I could understand Izuna faking his death and swapping eyes with his brother so they could both have eternal Mangekyou. It would also make sense due to the fact that they actually cared for each other which would explain why the Masked Man was so upset/angry when he saw Madara's body. Still, Izuna is most likely permanently dead. It showed his blind and being laid in a coffin (though he could ahve pulled a Kabuto and pretended to be dead, or cast an illusion on his brother to avoid death). Can't wait till Wednsday.

And when are we going to see the Gama family? :537:

Shadow Lucario
15th October 2011, 8:47 PM
The same can be said about most of the characters in this arc, yet here we are.

Those characters were brought back with Edo Tensei. We know that the masked Madara is alive. How can it be Izuna? Answer me that.


Giant eye storage says what.

And where did he get those eyes? From the Uchiha that Itachi and the masked Madara killed. How is he going to kill without eyes? Izuna died in battle after his eyes were taken. You too, tell me how it can be Izuna.

EDIT: Genjutsu is highly unlikely. Madara is a master of the Sharingan and it allows them to see through Genjutsu. Remember Itachi and Sasuke's fight? The first quarter of it was Genjutsu and they both saw through all of it.

Lorde
15th October 2011, 9:23 PM
Those characters were brought back with Edo Tensei. We know that the masked Madara is alive. How can it be Izuna? Answer me that.

We don't know that he's Madara, though. We're trying to determine who Tobi really is, and right now, it doesn't seem like he's really Madara since there are too many inconsistencies. The only thing that Tobi has going in his favor is the fact that he knows a lot about Madara's past, but since he's most likely a member of the Uchiha clan, it isn't all-that surprising that he'd know stuff about Madara. And if Tobi is Izuna, then it would make even more sense for him to know stuff about Madara since Madara was his brother.

Shneak
15th October 2011, 10:01 PM
There's another theory going around that masked Madara could possibly be Kagami, the Uchiha who was on Danzo's team.

Nah, I don't think so. He doesn't seem that important, and I don't see why he would want Danzo dead.

peacemaker987
15th October 2011, 10:22 PM
I like the Izuna theory, even though all of the possibilities involve kind-hearted Uchiha. This could be a repeat of Sasuke/Itachi (is that even the right word...) where the younger brother set out on a path of twisted revenge. I guess Izuna does have the most proof.

Kamex
16th October 2011, 5:27 AM
I think it's a side-effect of the Edo Tensei.
Hm... I suppose so. Seemed kind of more evident on Madara, but it could just be me.


Also even those this was a sloppy theory (and I mean extremely sloppy and half-assed), doesn't Madara look like Nagato dad?
A little bit, but he looked very much like a throw-away character whose only purpose was to build Nagato's back story, so him being Tobi would be an anti-climactic revelation in my opinion.


Those characters were brought back with Edo Tensei. We know that the masked Madara is alive. How can it be Izuna? Answer me that.
Izuna could have actually lived. Or maybe Tobi is undead. Even if there's no current explanation for it, Kishi could always come up with some random plot device to make it happen.


And if Tobi is Izuna, then it would make even more sense for him to know stuff about Madara since Madara was his brother.
True, I thought about that.


I like the Izuna theory, even though all of the possibilities involve kind-hearted Uchiha. This could be a repeat of Sasuke/Itachi (is that even the right word...) where the younger brother set out on a path of twisted revenge. I guess Izuna does have the most proof.
Yeah, I was thinking it would make sense for Tobi to have the strong interest in Sasuke that he has if his true identity was Izuna, because then he could somehow relate to him. Not to mention I thought it was somewhat strange that when Tobi told Sasuke about Madara after claiming that identity, he made himself out to be a cruel thief to his brother.

I'm kind of leaning towards the Tobi being some sort of otherworldly form of Madara theory, but I wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to be Izuna either.

LexSuicune
16th October 2011, 6:28 AM
Masked Madara has to be Madara or Obito.

I won't accept some random *** ninja that has been mentioned once 348 chapters ago and never appeared before to be the main antagonist in the show and strongest shinobi in the world.

Just no.

Lorde
16th October 2011, 6:44 AM
There's another theory going around that masked Madara could possibly be Kagami, the Uchiha who was on Danzo's team.

I can't believe that I didn't see this before. I was curious about him when he showed up in Danzo's flashback, but I don't think he's Madara. I am going to be disappointed if he's just some random Uchiha clan member, though. I'd be fine if Tobi was Izuna, Obito, or even Shisui, but I'm going to rage if Tobi ends up being Inabi or Tekka.

LexSuicune
16th October 2011, 8:29 AM
I wonder why Obito, Kakashi's friend and Minato's student wasn't revived with the Edô Tensei... *wink wink*

Lorde
16th October 2011, 8:33 AM
I wonder why Obito, Kakashi's friend and Minato's student wasn't revived with the Edô Tensei... *wink wink*

There's no mystery behind it: Kabuto mentioned that he only revived powerful/famous ninja. Obito was neither. So he wasn't summoned. I'm all for the "Obito is Tobi" theory, but the fact that he wasn't summoned via the Edo Tensei technique isn't all-that relevant to the theory in my opinion.

SharpedoX
16th October 2011, 12:53 PM
Gotta love all these theories about Tobi's identity. Really spiced up the manga. For me, any candidate that has been mentioned has the possibility of being him. I shared with some friends the possibility of he being Kagami and we think it isn't that farfetched. The possibility of him being Obito... isn't quite appealing considering it has been spammed for ages.

Can't wait for more details.

Grovyl
16th October 2011, 4:45 PM
I'm going to be pretty mad if Obito is Tobi. It would just be turning the story and everything towards Kakashi, and I think Tobi needs to be someone relevant to Sasuke/Naruto's life; if they aren't relevant to Sasuke/Naruto's life then they shouldn't have a huge relation with someone else. I'm pretty sure it's an Uchiha, and the only Uchiha I think that could be is Shisui, or Fugaku *heehee*.

TsukiMirage
16th October 2011, 6:05 PM
Nah, I don't think so. He doesn't seem that important, and I don't see why he would want Danzo dead. Well so far he's the only other named Uchiha would would have been from around Madara's era, which would explain how he knows most of the stuff that he does. While it has less problems then the Obito and Izuna theories, it still has some problems.

peacemaker987
16th October 2011, 8:12 PM
I wonder why Obito, Kakashi's friend and Minato's student wasn't revived with the Edô Tensei... *wink wink*

There's no mystery behind it: Kabuto mentioned that he only revived powerful/famous ninja. Obito was neither. So he wasn't summoned. I'm all for the "Obito is Tobi" theory, but the fact that he wasn't summoned via the Edo Tensei technique isn't all-that relevant to the theory in my opinion.

All the more support for the Izuna theory, he was claimed to be one of the most powerful Uchiha, and his body was recovered too. It would've been no trouble for Kabuto to steal a little of it to revive him.

Banana Knight Arthur
16th October 2011, 8:19 PM
The Real Madara seemed to hold the Edo Jutsu in a bad regard.

I believe the masked man is one of the older Uchiha alive when the first Hokage was also.

ebilly99
16th October 2011, 8:29 PM
Can a shadow clone ever become a real person, if so then could both Tobi and Mandara be the same person? Just a random idea.

SharpedoX
16th October 2011, 10:34 PM
Can a shadow clone ever become a real person, if so then could both Tobi and Mandara be the same person? Just a random idea.

Nah, impossible. If a simple thing such as a chakra disturbance can break a clone, it's impossible for it to be around so much. If he turns out to be Izuna or Kagami I can handle it pretty well.

Naruto appearing everywhere and taking care of pretty much anything is sort of anticlimactic (I wanted to see Juugo vs Kimimaro...) but I'm glad we'll be getting some pretty epic fights to take of right now.

-Raiga-
16th October 2011, 11:37 PM
Masked Madara has to be Madara or Obito.

I won't accept some random *** ninja that has been mentioned once 348 chapters ago and never appeared before to be the main antagonist in the show and strongest shinobi in the world.

Just no.

So obito, a character with virtually no relation to any of the current events, and who has been gone for 200+ chapters isn't that exact scenario?

Lorde
17th October 2011, 1:39 AM
There are also some theories that Tobi is both Obito and Madara. I don't really like that theory since it gets really complicated, but I think I'm starting to favor some of the Zetsu theories that are going around. One of the main Zetsu theories that I've seen indicates that Zetsu met Madara at some point in the past, and that he made a clone of Madara right before Madara died. I believe that Nagato is also part of the theory, and that Madara told Nagato to revive him in the future, which would explain why Tobi was angry when he learned that Nagato used the Rinne Tensei technique for someone other than him, and it might also explain why Madara referred to Nagato when he was revived via Edo Tensei.

Banana Knight Arthur
17th October 2011, 3:16 AM
Can a shadow clone ever become a real person, if so then could both Tobi and Mandara be the same person? Just a random idea.

That is not possible.

The shadow clone is just raw chakra given a form, it cannot sustain itself not create new chakra.

dewey911p
17th October 2011, 11:52 AM
I can't believe that I didn't see this before. I was curious about him when he showed up in Danzo's flashback, but I don't think he's Madara. I am going to be disappointed if he's just some random Uchiha clan member, though. I'd be fine if Tobi was Izuna, Obito, or even Shisui, but I'm going to rage if Tobi ends up being Inabi or Tekka.

i think Shisui is a viable contender, after all, they keep talking about how powerful his eyes are. If i remember correctly, Itachi was suppose to have killed Shisui to prevent his eyes from being misused, but my problem with this theory is that Shisui wasn't around when the 4th battled the masked guy (cant really say Madara any more can I) it might be some other ninja that was revived and then used a transformation jutsu, but that seems to lame to me. maybe Madara split his being into two part, a living body and what ever the hell is behind the mask? i dont know but im excited to find out :D

barak446
17th October 2011, 7:00 PM
I wish they will continue the story I hate those epasoide nothing happen....!!!

LexSuicune
17th October 2011, 10:16 PM
Ugh, can we talk about something else? This is making me dizzy.

Shneak
17th October 2011, 10:18 PM
i think Shisui is a viable contender, after all, they keep talking about how powerful his eyes are. If i remember correctly, Itachi was suppose to have killed Shisui to prevent his eyes from being misused, but my problem with this theory is that Shisui wasn't around when the 4th battled the masked guy (cant really say Madara any more can I) it might be some other ninja that was revived and then used a transformation jutsu, but that seems to lame to me. maybe Madara split his being into two part, a living body and what ever the hell is behind the mask? i dont know but im excited to find out :D

The biggest point with the Shisui theory is that he's been mentioned a lot in the story compared to the other Uchiha, so he wouldn't be an off-hand villain. But he's been pronounced dead too many times to count.

Lorde
17th October 2011, 11:04 PM
Ugh, can we talk about something else? This is making me dizzy.

I'm hoping that Kishi will clarify things in this week's chapter (if there's a chapter). I really don't like how we have two characters running around who go by the same name, and it's just going to get even more confusing as time goes by. And I do want to see the revived Madara in action, but I think that the next chapter should be dedicated to explaining things (but maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part).

TsukiMirage
17th October 2011, 11:40 PM
There's another piece of evidence that supports the idea that masked Madara is the real Madara too someone pointed out on another forum. It's the mindless Hashirama clone that masked Madara created. It's very possible that Madara created such a clone of himself combined with Hashirama long ago and placed some of his chakra inside it. That theory supports the majority of clues we got.

Anyway, to change the discussion, I wonder how effective Edo Madara will be allowed to be. Considering Gaara's division should be on it's last legs, someone named should die in the coming fight.

peacemaker987
18th October 2011, 5:46 AM
So are you saying the revived Madara is a clone? I guess since Zetsu is an independent individual it isn't too far fetched.

Gaara's division only really has Temari, Oonoki, Gaara and a Naruto clone; if anyone, Oonoki's probably going to die.

dewey911p
18th October 2011, 6:36 AM
can someone refresh my memory, didnt the 9 tails say that it was Madara who attacked the leaf village when Naruto was a baby and it was Madara who used his Sharingan to control the 9 tails. If my memory serves me, this would seem to lend support to the idea that the masked guy really is madara still, but it does nothing to explain the madara that was summoned (maybe a white Zetsu transformed?) just thinking out loud here :)

Lorde
18th October 2011, 8:54 AM
can someone refresh my memory, didnt the 9 tails say that it was Madara who attacked the leaf village when Naruto was a baby and it was Madara who used his Sharingan to control the 9 tails. If my memory serves me, this would seem to lend support to the idea that the masked guy really is madara still, but it does nothing to explain the madara that was summoned (maybe a white Zetsu transformed?) just thinking out loud here :)

I don't think the Kyuubi said anything about Madara using him to attack the village. If I remember correctly, he said that Sasuke's chakra reminded him of Madara's, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it was the real Madara who used the Kyuubi to attack the village; the Kyuubi served Madara during the early days of Konoha and most likely before that, so he could've been referring to that period of time instead of 16 years ago. The fact that we didn't actually see masked Madara's Mangekyo Sharingan during the Kyuubi attack seems a bit suspicious as well, since I believe that you need a Mangekyo Sharingan to control the Kyuubi. It may just be a minor detail, but I think it could mean that masked Madara isn't really Madara at all.

barak446
18th October 2011, 1:43 PM
Today came out new game of naruto...!!!
They said that it game from the begining of shipuden to the end of the show...
So if you wanna know who is tobi.... play the game~!

LexSuicune
18th October 2011, 6:56 PM
What?

I assume you're talking about Naruto Shippuuden; Generations for the PS3/XBOX360

And no, it won't play 'till the end of the show, namely because the manga is not over yet.

It plays until the 5 Kage Summit Arc.

Lorde
18th October 2011, 8:33 PM
I wonder which kinds of jutsu the revived Madara will use in battle. I think Fire Release is a given since all Uchiha clan members seem to specialize in that element. Wind Release might also fit since Madara used a fan in battle in order to strengthen his flames. I think he'll also use genjutsu, although I hope he sticks with ninjutsu instead, as we've seen enough genjutsu already. At least he won't be able to summon the Kyuubi this time, although he may be able to suppress it while it's inside Naruto.

dewey911p
18th October 2011, 9:55 PM
i wonder if Madara's ability to supress the 9 tails will work now that Naruto has control over it. I know that the sharingan can supress and even control a tailed beast, but what happens when the host has control over the beast and just uses the chakra? will the sharingan be able to supress the chakra that the host controls as well. honestly i think that if this is the case, it would have to be the effects of a Mangekyō Sharingan since it hasnt been shown that the sharingan can manipulate chakra in that manner (at least as far as i remember)

Banana Knight Arthur
19th October 2011, 2:58 AM
can someone refresh my memory, didnt the 9 tails say that it was Madara who attacked the leaf village when Naruto was a baby and it was Madara who used his Sharingan to control the 9 tails. If my memory serves me, this would seem to lend support to the idea that the masked guy really is madara still, but it does nothing to explain the madara that was summoned (maybe a white Zetsu transformed?) just thinking out loud here :)

The masked-impostor could have stolen the eyes of an Uchiha who possessed the Eternal-M-Sharingan.

Heck if Danzo could put Sharingan to such a skill level of use, anyone can.

7 tyranitars
19th October 2011, 2:16 PM
Chapter is out.

Okay Madara is really really really powerfull.

Locormus
19th October 2011, 2:18 PM
Okay, seeing the new spoilers, I'll say that I'm intrigued... Meteors? Looks like this will be a Poke/ruto cross over..

Gaara!! Use Sand-Attack!!!
Madara Edo!! Use Draco Meteor!!!
- Draco Meteor missed!
Gaara!! Use Sand Tomb!!!
Madara Edo is trapped in the sand!!
Sealling team! Go do yo thang!!!

Platinum fan.
19th October 2011, 2:56 PM
Madara is awesome but also very very cheap! He pretty much has every powerful eye move under the sun minus the Byakugan. At least the war is picking up, but wow how do you beat someone like this?

7 tyranitars
19th October 2011, 3:11 PM
He is an Uchiha what do you expect? Him not to be cheap :P?

SharpedoX
19th October 2011, 4:18 PM
What? When your progress beyond the Sharingan you obtain the Rinnegan? Say what? Makes me wonder how Nagato awakened his Rinnegan and how Tobi gave it to him. Hope that Sasuke doesn't obtain it since we already have quite a nice spam of a particular Dōjutsu.

lucky_u
19th October 2011, 4:29 PM
What? When your progress beyond the Sharingan you obtain the Rinnegan? Say what? Makes me wonder how Nagato awakened his Rinnegan and how Tobi gave it to him. Hope that Sasuke doesn't obtain it since we already have quite a nice spam of a particular Dōjutsu.Nagato awakened his Rinnegan?
I thought we have a several chapters of flashback on that one.

How to unlock Rinnegan as a Uchiha clan would stay a mystery for a few chapter, I suppose.
Mandara had unlocked it before he died.
I wonder how he died.

Next chapter would be very interesting.
I'm expecting Naruto and Bee show their faces soon.

Banana Knight Arthur
19th October 2011, 5:13 PM
If "Tobi" gave Nagato-Pain his Rinne'gan, then he did not awaken it.

The revelation that a Eternal Mangekyou can evolve/develop into Rinnegan eyes, means Sasuke will likely obtain that level too, Naruto(Six sage mode now seems lacking and inadequate) vs. Pain(Sasuke w/Rinnegan) part 3.

SharpedoX
19th October 2011, 5:26 PM
My bad. Forgot to correct that part.

So according to the chapter's dialogue it's pretty much settled that masked Madara is not Madara after all, correct?

Mark1006
19th October 2011, 6:15 PM
Are Naruto's Nine Tails powers made now made null against Madara?I mean Madara took control of it to fight Hashirama Senju and Tobi took control of it to attack the Hidden Leaf.

dewey911p
19th October 2011, 6:54 PM
nagato has the rinnengan, which evolves from the Mangekyou sharingan and Nagato was part of the Uzamaki clan so who else sees naruto getting some sort of eye kekkei genkai? clearly people in his blood line have this ability and it was said that the the Uzamaki and Uchiha clans decended from the same ancestor, so why not (aside from the fact that it would be kinda lame in my opinion)

also, Madara is pretty cool, but also pretty stereotypical of an Uchiha, at least the rinnengan added an interesting little twist

uber gon
19th October 2011, 8:09 PM
Man how many forms can the Susanoo take? I mean is there a limitless amount of ways it can appear?

Lorde
19th October 2011, 8:11 PM
Ugh, my head hurts. There was tons of new information in this week's chapter, but I haven't even started to put 2 and 2 together. Still, I guess it was neat that we got some action this week. Madara's Katon jutsu seemed really tough to the point where tons of ninja had to use Suiton just to block it. I really liked Madara's Susano'o as well since it looked different from the other Susano'o that we've seen so far. It was cool seeing Madara's Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan as well, and that meteor on the final page looked wicked.

TsukiMirage
19th October 2011, 9:08 PM
Okay, seeing the new spoilers, I'll say that I'm intrigued... Meteors? Looks like this will be a Poke/ruto cross over.. When I saw that meteor, I instantly remembered FF VII. Edo Madara is clearly Sephiroth.


Anyway, Edo Madara shows why the legendary Uchiha was considered such a threat. Speed great enough to appear as a blur, able to launch a giant fireball that required a dozen lesser ninjas to match, and able to stop an opponent in their tracks with just a glance. He also seemed quite skilled with a sword and his Susanoo appears more twisted then even Sasuke's, with two heads and four arms. Edo Madara having the Rinnegan was unexpected, but make some sense from all that we were told. A little overblown, but great chapter nonetheless. It's gonna be interesting to see how the Alliance manages to escape a meteor falling on their heads.

#1TransendTrainer
19th October 2011, 9:41 PM
This chapter rly threw me (& possibly other ppl) off
Tobi=/=Madara
So then,WHO ON EARTH IS TOBI?!?!?!?!
but on another note,i wondr how Madara died
& I WANT 2 KNOW WHO'S UNDER THE FRAKING MASK!!!!!

Banana Knight Arthur
19th October 2011, 9:49 PM
nagato has the rinnengan, which evolves from the Mangekyou sharingan and Nagato was part of the Uzamaki clan so who else sees naruto getting some sort of eye kekkei genkai? clearly people in his blood line have this ability and it was said that the the Uzamaki and Uchiha clans decended from the same ancestor, so why not (aside from the fact that it would be kinda lame in my opinion)

also, Madara is pretty cool, but also pretty stereotypical of an Uchiha, at least the rinnengan added an interesting little twist

If Naruto gets a Sharingan or Rinnegan developing outta nowhere and plot hax, I quit Naruto.

It has always been hinted and suggested the link between the Sharingan/Byakugan/and Rinnegan, so it is believable that a Sharingan evolves to MS, then to EMS, then Rinnegan.

Only if Naruto develops some new eye jutsu, maybe…...


Man how many forms can the Susanoo take? I mean is there a limitless amount of ways it can appear?

Probably/most likely, the Susano'oh reflects the users chakra/emotions etc.


I really liked Madara's Susano'o as well since it looked different from the other Susano'o that we've seen so far. It was cool seeing Madara's Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan as well, and that meteor on the final page looked wicked.

Are you kidding, Madara's Susano'oh was the ugliest I've ever seen.
Of course it wil also be the most haxxed version ever, given whose it belongs to.

Shadow Lucario
19th October 2011, 9:58 PM
Masked Madara said he gave Nagato the Rinnegan so Naruto getting the Rinnegan is highly unlikely. Sasuke on the other hand has a chance given that his progress is so rapid and he already has the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan.

Shneak
19th October 2011, 10:00 PM
Good chapter, but it raised a lot more questions. More Sharingan eye hax is not a good thing, because Sasuke will somehow be able to get this and one-up Naruto again. And Kishi is going to continue to hide Tobi's indentity. We do know that Madara knows about who he is, but he wasn't referring to Tobi like it was himself.

I did love seeing Madara fight though. We've hardly seen what he/Tobi could do and even seeing a simple fire style technique and Susanoo was awesome. And the moon a meteor falling from the sky is epic (as long as Naruto doesn't destroy it.)

Banana Knight Arthur
19th October 2011, 10:10 PM
Masked Madara said he gave Nagato the Rinnegan so Naruto getting the Rinnegan is highly unlikely. Sasuke on the other hand has a chance given that his progress is so rapid and he already has the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan.

While it would be horribly haxxed, I would love to see Rinnegan Sasuke.

Shadow Lucario
19th October 2011, 10:13 PM
While it would be horribly haxxed, I would love to see Rinnegan Sasuke.

I don't think Naruto would stand a chance then. He couldn't even take Sasuke with just the Mangekyou Sharingan. With all six paths Jutsu at his disposal Sasuke would mop the floor with Naruto.

Banana Knight Arthur
19th October 2011, 10:18 PM
I don't think Naruto would stand a chance then. He couldn't even take Sasuke with just the Mangekyou Sharingan. With all six paths Jutsu at his disposal Sasuke would mop the floor with Naruto.

Exactly.

He also has yet to encounter the Freshly-operated Sasuke and his shiny new Eternal Mangekyou.

I feel Naruto's Rikudo mode is less than the EMS, therefore Rikudo Naruto, bar an upgrade/date, is also less than capable to deal with Rinnegan Sasuke.

MisterM
19th October 2011, 11:04 PM
I really enjoyed this chapter and I have to say, I was very surprised about this whole Madara plot and it just adds more mystery as to who Tobi really is! This was already the case before Masked Guy proclaimed to be Madara and now, it's like we're back to the starting point but I think it's a good thing.

Maybe, as it may have already been said ages ago, Tobi is actually this Obito guy who as some history with Kakashi (was it Obito? I don't remember very well, it was a long time ago)

What I personnally fear, as some of you already mentioned, is that some ultra haxxed upgrades will appear out of nowhere...

uber gon
19th October 2011, 11:04 PM
Why do I get the feeling that if Naruto gets his own Susanoo, or something similar to it, it's going to look a lot more holier than all the other Susanoo versions?

multi-scale
19th October 2011, 11:06 PM
Okay, seeing the new spoilers, I'll say that I'm intrigued... Meteors? Looks like this will be a Poke/ruto cross over..

Gaara!! Use Sand-Attack!!!
Madara Edo!! Use Draco Meteor!!!
- Draco Meteor missed!
Gaara!! Use Sand Tomb!!!
Madara Edo is trapped in the sand!!
Sealling team! Go do yo thang!!!

Seems more like this:
Madara used Darco Meteor!
Alliance died!
Madara has Contrary!
Madara's special attack sharply rose!

Nice chapter. But the power of a god.....oh boy. Now I'm really wondering how he died.

Banana Knight Arthur
19th October 2011, 11:10 PM
Now I'm really wondering how he died.

Even God was once mortal :D

Lorde
19th October 2011, 11:47 PM
Things have just gotten more complicated. I'm starting to believe that Tobi really is Madara's clone, but that still seems really odd, even for this manga. I wish Tobi was just some character from the past, but things aren't looking too good for the Obito/Izuna/Shisui theories. I wish Kishi would just tell us who Tobi is, but he's obviously trying to build suspense here.

dewey911p
19th October 2011, 11:52 PM
for some reason, i thought the giant meteor was pains moon jutsu thingy that Madara just formed really quickly. it strikes me as odd that a ninja would have such a massive technique b/c it seems like it would just kill the ninja who uses it as well... well maybe thats how Madara died, he was fighting someone so powerful that he had to use this massive jutsu as a last resort

Banana Knight Arthur
20th October 2011, 12:00 AM
Things have just gotten more complicated. I'm starting to believe that Tobi really is Madara's clone, but that still seems really odd, even for this manga. I wish Tobi was just some character from the past, but things aren't looking too good for the Obito/Izuna/Shisui theories. I wish Kishi would just tell us who Tobi is, but he's obviously trying to build suspense here.

That's something I'd buy/

Obito or A clone of Madara for the identity of the man in the mask aka Tobi.

Emperor Empoleon
20th October 2011, 2:18 AM
Itach, where you at!?

..Seriously, I think that(however he plans to stop Edo-Tensei..) will be the only possible way to stop Edo-Madara..

Banana Knight Arthur
20th October 2011, 2:23 AM
Itach, where you at!?

..Seriously, I think that(however he plans to stop Edo-Tensei..) will be the only possible way to stop Edo-Madara..

Personally, I think ITachi is overestimating and over-stretching his strength and abilities.

Lorde
20th October 2011, 3:05 AM
Itach, where you at!?

..Seriously, I think that(however he plans to stop Edo-Tensei..) will be the only possible way to stop Edo-Madara..

I agree. That's probably why Kishi had Itachi escape Kabuto's control. I don't see him confronting Kabuto yet, though. I think Madara will get several chapters to himself before Itachi finds Kabuto and attempts to end the technique. I still can't get over how strong Madara is, though. I knew he was going to be tough, but that meteor looks like something that not even Nagato would've been able to produce (at least not that easily).

Platinum fan.
20th October 2011, 3:44 AM
I would love to know how the 1st Hokage defeated Madara. He did defeat him, right? I mean wow, Madara is scary powerful. I guess the Rinnegan evolving from the EMS is possible, it has been hinted quite a few times that eye jutsu's come from the same branch even the Byakugan back in part 1. I actually hope Sasuke does not get the Rinnegan though. The Rinnegan is becoming as overused as the Sharingan now and it no longer feels special, just a overpowered, broken, uber hax jutsu now! I see why the Uchiha's were feared now and why Danzo had them wiped out. Heck if I was a ninja of those times I'd want eyes like that too. There is nothing they can't do XD

dewey911p
20th October 2011, 4:46 AM
Personally, I think ITachi is overestimating and over-stretching his strength and abilities.

maybe not, since he was revived with the edo tensi (pardon the spelling) he might still be imortal. i know he was freed from the jutsu, but if his body is still made of that wierd paper like substance and he has to be sealed as oppose to killed, he might be in a pretty good position to raise some hell. otherwise, yea, he looks half dead and he was half blind before he died so if nothing has changed then....

uber gon
20th October 2011, 8:16 AM
So who wants to bet Naruto will gain something similar to the Susanoo pretty soon?

Lorde
20th October 2011, 8:57 AM
So who wants to bet Naruto will gain something similar to the Susanoo pretty soon?

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Naruto also gained a Sharingan/Rinnegan of his own soon. It just seems like everyone has a Sharingan these days, and the same seems to be true about the Rinnegan as well. I usually praise Kishi for his creativeness, but he's starting to become really predictable, and it's not a good thing. The Rinnegan is supposed to be extremely rare and quite possibly unique, yet Nagato, Tobi, and Madara have already possessed it? That's just ridiculous.

lolipiece
20th October 2011, 8:57 AM
So who wants to bet Naruto will gain something similar to the Susanoo pretty soon?

Might as well, he's getting uber powerful by the moment now.

Shadow Lucario
20th October 2011, 5:34 PM
The Rinnegan is supposed to be extremely rare and quite possibly unique, yet Nagato, Tobi, and Madara have already possessed it? That's just ridiculous.

Tobi only has it because he took it from Nagato. And Tobi said he gave it to Nagato so only Madara and the Sage having it naturally is pretty rare. Sharingan is still the same. No one else has gained it. Only the Uchiha plus Kakashi and Danzo. Not a lot of people.

barak446
20th October 2011, 6:12 PM
when a new epasoide come out?

Lorde
20th October 2011, 9:03 PM
Tobi only has it because he took it from Nagato. And Tobi said he gave it to Nagato so only Madara and the Sage having it naturally is pretty rare. Sharingan is still the same. No one else has gained it. Only the Uchiha plus Kakashi and Danzo. Not a lot of people.

I know that Tobi took it from Nagato, but that still means that we'll have to see more Rinnegan techniques in the future. And knowing Kishi, they'll be the same techniques that Pain used before. And the Sharingan has been implanted into the revived Jinchuriki as well, which will make them even more bothersome to deal with.

TsukiMirage
20th October 2011, 10:48 PM
So who wants to bet Naruto will gain something similar to the Susanoo pretty soon? He already has, his chakra cloak. It's already given him enough protection against one of Ee's punches.

Platinum fan.
21st October 2011, 12:04 AM
Right, Tobi said he gave Nagato the Rinnegan, so I guess that means Nagato never developed it on his own? Boy, Nagato/Pain really doesn't feel like such a big deal anymore. Pitty, he was one of my favorite characters in part two. And I can honestly say I'm tired of the Rinnegan already! Sharingan 2.0 is what it's becoming. I liked it better when only Nagato/Pain had it. Now Madara has it, Tobi has it, and since Sasuke is being built to become the ultimate uber hax/Uchiha he'll probably get it in his fight with Naruto. Speaking of Naruto it feels like he just got his Sage Mode and already that Jutsu feels inferior to his Kyubi mode and everything the Uchiha's have.

multi-scale
21st October 2011, 12:16 AM
I think people are underestimating Naruto. If he can master his speed, I think he should be fast enough to dodge Amaterasu, and i guess he could use his chakra arms to pull Sasuke out of the Susano'o. I do like that Kishi isn't completely abandoning Sage Mode. If Sasuke gets any stronger Naruto will start having trouble, but Naruto will probably have a longer time span with the cloak as well as some new moves. I don't know if the EMS will remove the stamina absorbing power of the Susano'o, but if it ever comes to a battle of attrition, Naruto will always win. He's always had more stamina than Sasuke.

Platinum fan.
21st October 2011, 12:24 AM
Naruto does not need speed to dodge the Amaterasu. Just use Shadow Clones as a shield. Sasuke can only do that and hold Susano'o for a short time before he tires himself out. And with no Karen to bite, he's going to want save that chakra. Really it's the Susano'o alone that Naruto will have trouble with because nothing he has can defeat it. His only option is to wait for Sasuke to tire down.

-Raiga-
21st October 2011, 3:36 AM
The chapter started out well enough, but I'm so sick of people getting sharingan and rinnegan left and right its ridiculous.

Its not like the author could just invent a new occular power as haxed as his current one, but no, he not only to give him the sharingan and rinnegan but had to connect them too...

As I said though, the start was great, I loved madara's throwback style to using ninja techniques as opposed to all these flashy eye powers everything relies on now. And it makes sense given the era he's from.

Banana Knight Arthur
21st October 2011, 4:36 AM
Tobi only has it because he took it from Nagato. And Tobi said he gave it to Nagato so only Madara and the Sage having it naturally is pretty rare. Sharingan is still the same. No one else has gained it. Only the Uchiha plus Kakashi and Danzo. Not a lot of people.


The chapter started out well enough, but I'm so sick of people getting sharingan and rinnegan left and right its ridiculous.




Not true the Eye jutsu Sharingan and Rinnegan are still quite rare, as the first post I quoted highlights.

JetshipperKekkaishi
21st October 2011, 4:44 AM
So now Madara has Rinnegan now. Interesting. It is shocking to see Naruto didn't have much chakra for the Kyuubi mode. But the battle with Madara was a little rushed. Madara already pulling a ace out. And About Tobi I still think that Obito is Tobi but That is highly Doubtful. This is so questionable and interesting to find out. The fight was ok but still felt rushed to me. And giving Rinnegan to Madara makes it too chessy. But looking forward to the next chapter.

Banana Knight Arthur
21st October 2011, 4:49 AM
So now Madara has Rinnegan now. Interesting. It is shocking to see Naruto didn't have much chakra for the Kyuubi mode. But the battle with Madara was a little rushed. Madara already pulling a ace out. And About Tobi I still think that Obito is Tobi but That is highly Doubtful. This is so questionable and interesting to find out. The fight was ok but still felt rushed to me. And giving Rinnegan to Madara makes it too chessy. But looking forward to the next chapter.

Well apparently he had it/developed it at least since the approximate time of his death. Even with Rinnegan eyes, Madara seems to rely on thee basics, good old ninjutsu.

peacemaker987
21st October 2011, 6:33 AM
Madara's fight really downplayed the EMS, but at least there will be no more arguments about superiority. It seems the the dojutsu has really slipped by a level... literally. The regular sharingan is well, regular, the EMS has the same connotation as the normal sharingan when it was introduced, and the Rinnegan is the new MS. Hopefully that made sense. I think Kabuto would die before cancelling the Madara edo, pull a Kisame; because I think that there's a greater secret to hide, all the talk of Madara's golden age gives me a hunch. Perhaps the next eye tech will be this (http://media.photobucket.com/image/ten%20tails%20eye/colsar1/th_300px-Ten-Tails_Eye_svg.png)?

You gotta remember that Naruto still has more room for improvement, he still has to befriend the fox, learn the Bijuu Ball and possibly apply his various Rasengan variations to it. RasenBijuu Ball would definitely match Sasuke's Susanoo hax.

dewey911p
21st October 2011, 6:38 AM
was it ever explained why Naruto cannot combine his 9 tails cloak with sage mode? now that would be epic. Honestly, if he were to use sage mode while in 9 tails mode, i think he could handle anything saskue could throw at him (his is the title charecter after all :p)

Lorde
21st October 2011, 7:03 AM
I wonder how the Allied Shinobi Forces will survive that giant meteor. I don't think that Gaara's sand will be able to absorb the impact, and I don't think that any of the other ninja will be able to stop that thing. I'm guessing that most of the minor ninja will die while Naruto, Gaara, Temari, and Onoki will survive since they're major characters. I really do think that Kishi has made Madara too powerful, though. I can't imagine how he'll top this meteor technique.

dewey911p
21st October 2011, 8:53 AM
something that just occured to me:

giant meteor = genjutsu

this would explain how anyone could have such an epic technique and would continue to play on how powerful the sharingan/rinnengan is. Just a thought :)

Platinum fan.
21st October 2011, 4:13 PM
I wonder how the Allied Shinobi Forces will survive that giant meteor. I don't think that Gaara's sand will be able to absorb the impact, and I don't think that any of the other ninja will be able to stop that thing. I'm guessing that most of the minor ninja will die while Naruto, Gaara, Temari, and Onoki will survive since they're major characters. I really do think that Kishi has made Madara too powerful, though. I can't imagine how he'll top this meteor technique.

A giant asteroid technique perhaps? The only reason I consider Madara uber is because he has the Rinnegan. Without that I would just consider him the most powerful Uchiha with amazing powers. The fact that he has every powerful jutsu and eyes makes wonder how he even died in the first place? I mean no offense to the 1st Hokage, but his Edo Tensei didn't generate the powerful aura that Madara's does. I'm sorry I still can't stop thinking about how the EMS evolves into the Rinnegan! The Rinnegan has been forever ruined for me.

barak446
21st October 2011, 5:59 PM
who saw the new epasoide : Naruto imposter?

Lorde
21st October 2011, 6:27 PM
something that just occured to me:

giant meteor = genjutsu

this would explain how anyone could have such an epic technique and would continue to play on how powerful the sharingan/rinnengan is. Just a thought :)

I guess it could be genjutsu, although I'm sure that the Rinnegan could produce a real meteor since those eyes have God-like powers.


A giant asteroid technique perhaps? The only reason I consider Madara uber is because he has the Rinnegan. Without that I would just consider him the most powerful Uchiha with amazing powers. The fact that he has every powerful jutsu and eyes makes wonder how he even died in the first place? I mean no offense to the 1st Hokage, but his Edo Tensei didn't generate the powerful aura that Madara's does. I'm sorry I still can't stop thinking about how the EMS evolves into the Rinnegan! The Rinnegan has been forever ruined for me.

I also don't know how Hashirama ever defeated Madara. The Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan itself seems to be extremely powerful, and then there's the Rinnegan. So I can't imagine what Hashirama must've gone through to stop Madara. I almost wish that Hashirama had been revived once more, just to see all his powers.

LexSuicune
21st October 2011, 8:24 PM
I think this is all coming down to the Juubi.

I mean, do any of you remember the shape of its eyes?

http://images.wikia.com/naruto/images/e/ef/Ten_Tails_and_Sage_of_Six_Paths.png

It wouldn't surprise me one bit of 'Tobi' was in fact, The Rikudô Sennin. We've seen crazier stuff in this manga.

Shneak
21st October 2011, 10:09 PM
I wonder how the Allied Shinobi Forces will survive that giant meteor. I don't think that Gaara's sand will be able to absorb the impact, and I don't think that any of the other ninja will be able to stop that thing. I'm guessing that most of the minor ninja will die while Naruto, Gaara, Temari, and Onoki will survive since they're major characters. I really do think that Kishi has made Madara too powerful, though. I can't imagine how he'll top this meteor technique.

I fear Naruto is going to RasenShuriken it, but it seems to big to avoid or destroy. I think it's a genjutsu though, because that thing could wipe out the dinosaurs.

Lorde
22nd October 2011, 1:27 AM
I think this is all coming down to the Juubi.

I mean, do any of you remember the shape of its eyes?

http://images.wikia.com/naruto/images/e/ef/Ten_Tails_and_Sage_of_Six_Paths.png

It wouldn't surprise me one bit of 'Tobi' was in fact, The Rikudô Sennin. We've seen crazier stuff in this manga.

But the Sage of Six Paths was supposed to be good. Why would he plan on reuniting the Bijuu for the purpose of doing something evil? And yes, I do think that Tobi's plan is evil since it seems that he just wants to control the world rather than to unite it to bring peace. I wouldn't doubt that Tobi is directly related to the Sage of Six Paths, but I don't know if I like this theory about him being the actual Sage himself.

Banana Knight Arthur
22nd October 2011, 5:02 AM
But the Sage of Six Paths was supposed to be good. Why would he plan on reuniting the Bijuu for the purpose of doing something evil? And yes, I do think that Tobi's plan is evil since it seems that he just wants to control the world rather than to unite it to bring peace. I wouldn't doubt that Tobi is directly related to the Sage of Six Paths, but I don't know if I like this theory about him being the actual Sage himself.

Perhaps living forever, if it is the Rikudo sennin, which I highly doubt, has driven him mad.

multi-scale
22nd October 2011, 5:24 AM
But the Sage of Six Paths was supposed to be good. Why would he plan on reuniting the Bijuu for the purpose of doing something evil? And yes, I do think that Tobi's plan is evil since it seems that he just wants to control the world rather than to unite it to bring peace. I wouldn't doubt that Tobi is directly related to the Sage of Six Paths, but I don't know if I like this theory about him being the actual Sage himself.

Peace? We all know the twisted visions of peace these characters have, and frankly, no one's proposed a better solution. On the topic of seeing Hashirama's powers: hopefully a flashback or some bonus chapters. I really want to to see how Hashirama beat Madara, even if he didn't have the Rinnegan. And once again, the Rinnegan/EMS/MS are rare, we've only seen 2 unlock Rinnegan, 2 unlock EMS, and 4(?) unlock MS. The sharingan itself is not completely common in the Uchiha clan either.

Shneak
22nd October 2011, 5:30 AM
I also don't know how Hashirama ever defeated Madara.

Coming back to this, how did the Senju clan ever gain control over the Uchiha clan, who seem unbeatable in many ways? If Sasuke, Itachi, Madara and possibly Tobi are capable of such powers, I can't imagine what a whole army could do. And yet they were herded into a slum in Konoha peacefully.

It makes me think the Senju also had an extraordinary power or jutsu, something else that Naruto could get.

Platinum fan.
22nd October 2011, 5:36 AM
We've only see two unlock the Rinnegan but three people have it. Madara, Tobi, and Nagato. The Rinnegan has gone the way of the Sharingan now. It no longer feels unique. If anything it just feels like another Uchiha tool. I was okay for the most part with Tobi stealing the Rinnegan from Nagato, even if he said he gave it to him in the first place, but seeing the EMS evolve into the Rinnegan...all I can say is I hope Madara is the only one who does this. I would cry if the Rinnegan becomes plot armor like the Sharingan has.

Lorde
22nd October 2011, 6:20 AM
Coming back to this, how did the Senju clan ever gain control over the Uchiha clan, who seem unbeatable in many ways? If Sasuke, Itachi, Madara and possibly Tobi are capable of such powers, I can't imagine what a whole army could do. And yet they were herded into a slum in Konoha peacefully.

It makes me think the Senju also had an extraordinary power or jutsu, something else that Naruto could get.

I've wondered about that too. As far as we know, only Hashirama knew how to use Wood Release. So I wonder what powers the other Senju clan members had (apart from Tobirama of course since we already know that he specialized in Water Release). It's quite possible that the Senju clan really did have another ability, but I don't want Naruto to gain it if it does exist; I don't want another Sasuke in the manga. :x

Crimsonlink
22nd October 2011, 6:48 AM
Peace? We all know the twisted visions of peace these characters have, and frankly, no one's proposed a better solution. On the topic of seeing Hashirama's powers: hopefully a flashback or some bonus chapters. I really want to to see how Hashirama beat Madara, even if he didn't have the Rinnegan. And once again, the Rinnegan/EMS/MS are rare, we've only seen 2 unlock Rinnegan, 2 unlock EMS, and 4(?) unlock MS. The sharingan itself is not completely common in the Uchiha clan either.

Tell that to all the eyeballs False Madara has in his lab.

Rinnegan was rare until a few chapter ago. Now 7 dead Jinchurikki have them, along with Madara, False Madara, and Nagato who died again.

My thoughts on the chapter this week, it was awesome until Madara revealed the Rinnegan. Just ruined Madara's character for me. Also has made the battles all about what eye doujutsu you have on you. >: (

peacemaker987
22nd October 2011, 7:44 AM
Well, if they could replicate the Rinnegan so easily, I'd imagine we will see more and more of it. How unfortunate.

I don't think Naruto will gain any Senju abilities, he never has relied on anything else than what his parents left behind. Though maby it's a Senju ability to combine elements, Hashirama creates wood with earth and water, Tobirama combines water and space/time to seemingly utilize advanced water techs without a source. I don't know, it is a possibility. There aren't enough Senju to prove it.

Banana Knight Arthur
22nd October 2011, 8:11 AM
Well, if they could replicate the Rinnegan so easily, I'd imagine we will see more and more of it. How unfortunate.

I don't think Naruto will gain any Senju abilities, he never has relied on anything else than what his parents left behind. Though maby it's a Senju ability to combine elements, Hashirama creates wood with earth and water, Tobirama combines water and space/time to seemingly utilize advanced water techs without a source. I don't know, it is a possibility. There aren't enough Senju to prove it.

IF Naruto somehow inherited a water nature from his Uzumaki clan side, then the combo of Wind and Water makes Hyouton aka ICe release aka Haku's kekkei genkai.

Lorde
22nd October 2011, 8:16 AM
IF Naruto somehow inherited a water nature from his Uzumaki clan side, then the combo of Wind and Water makes Hyouton aka ICe release aka Haku's kekkei genkai.

That would only happen if Naruto had the Kekkei Genkai trait, which I highly doubt he has. I bet that he'll have some sort of secret Uzumaki clan jutsu, though. I think Kishi has been hinting at that for a while. So we'll just have to wait and see exactly what this power is going to be; I hope it has something to do with "that jutsu".

TsukiMirage
22nd October 2011, 8:26 AM
Coming back to this, how did the Senju clan ever gain control over the Uchiha clan, who seem unbeatable in many ways? If Sasuke, Itachi, Madara and possibly Tobi are capable of such powers, I can't imagine what a whole army could do. And yet they were herded into a slum in Konoha peacefully.

It makes me think the Senju also had an extraordinary power or jutsu, something else that Naruto could get. Itachi, Sasuke, and Madara are basically the elite of the elite, so using them to judge every Uchiha by shouldn't be done. Don't forget that gaining the Sharingan was a rare feat in the Uchiha clan, so the majority of Uchihas the Senju had to fight would have basically been regular strong ninjas. Not to mention that out of that small handful, those who gained the MS would have been even rarer. And we were told by Chiyo that when ninjas fought against the Sharingan, they would only stay and fight if they outnumbered the user and flee from battle if it was one on one. So as long as the Senju had them outnumbered, fighting them wouldn't have been impossible.

LexSuicune
22nd October 2011, 9:39 AM
Isn't the Uzumaki's clan legacy to Naruto something about binding or sealing? I remember reading something like that when Kushina first appeared.

And yes, I now I'm gonna believe my crazy theory that the Rikudo Sennin is Tobi, he's the only one that truly knows and understands the power of the Juubi and that's the end of Madara's game, reuniting the 9 beasts and forming the Juubi to proyect the Infinite Tsukuyomi on the moon. If The Sage was driven to madness by witnessing what his teachings of Ninjutsu did, I believe the only way he could make a new beggining, free of Ninjas short of obliterating the world, would be to wipe their memories clean and start anew taking charge himself.

I won't take anyone else, Tobi's too powerful/knowledgeable to be some random *** ninja.

Livinitup17
22nd October 2011, 7:50 PM
We've only see two unlock the Rinnegan but three people have it. Madara, Tobi, and Nagato. The Rinnegan has gone the way of the Sharingan now. It no longer feels unique. If anything it just feels like another Uchiha tool. I was okay for the most part with Tobi stealing the Rinnegan from Nagato, even if he said he gave it to him in the first place, but seeing the EMS evolve into the Rinnegan...all I can say is I hope Madara is the only one who does this. I would cry if the Rinnegan becomes plot armor like the Sharingan has.

Naruto been going down hill after sasuke betrayal and it hasn't done much to help it come back up it's gotten way to ridiculous i mean sharigan was something awesome than mankeyo was something above that but than toni had to ruin it with planting rinnegan and ruining madara well earn rinnegan no cheap transplant or fake mutation whats next naruto gets wood release and gains the power to controls the tail beast and after that they make that look insignificant they'll probably fuse with the tail beats and fight it off seems way to much dbz like

ssjtidus
22nd October 2011, 8:14 PM
Naruto been going down hill after sasuke betrayal and it hasn't done much to help it come back up it's gotten way to ridiculous i mean sharigan was something awesome than mankeyo was something above that but than toni had to ruin it with planting rinnegan and ruining madara well earn rinnegan no cheap transplant or fake mutation whats next naruto gets wood release and gains the power to controls the tail beast and after that they make that look insignificant they'll probably fuse with the tail beats and fight it off seems way to much dbz like

Dude, punctuation, please.

Anyways, Madara making his entrance was sweet and iconic. The whole chapter ignited my interest back in Naruto but the Rinnegan cheapened everything. Anyways, isn't this meteor he's summoned the same thing that Nagato used against Naruto in Konoha? Or was that a different technique?

Lunanight
22nd October 2011, 8:59 PM
I think this is all coming down to the Juubi.

I mean, do any of you remember the shape of its eyes?

http://images.wikia.com/naruto/images/e/ef/Ten_Tails_and_Sage_of_Six_Paths.png

It wouldn't surprise me one bit of 'Tobi' was in fact, The Rikudô Sennin. We've seen crazier stuff in this manga.

This. It has pretty much been foreshadowed since we first heard of the Juubi that Rinnegan was an evolution or alternative of the Sharingan.

Though I think Madara and Tobi are the same person and somehow split their body and/or soul but since the stronger Madara died, the less offensive one (Tobi) thought of a way to revive his former body, also known as "use Nagato as a pawn until he revives your old body".

It explains why Tobi never used any offensive jutsu's during the present day, only his intangibility and mind-warping the Kyuubi into being his b!tch in two different events which both failed epicly.

It also would explain why Tobi never had the MS or the EMS, despite having them in flashbacks.

However, if the destructive power of Madara and the intangibility of "Tobi" were to be combined into one person, then the true Madara would pose a bigger threat then either of the former two have done.

Sure, the whole "Tobi and Madara are the same person" theory is unlikely - but it is much more likely then the ridiculous "Tobi = Obito" theory which makes no sense at all. Obito would not be old enough to have met Nagato, especially when Nagato is basically confirmed to be a good few years older then Kakashi. And that Nagato had the Rinnegan when he was 10. And because Nagato got the Rinnegan before Kakashi was likely born, it also means he likely got it before Obito was born...if people get my point.



I won't take anyone else, Tobi's too powerful/knowledgeable to be some random *** ninja.

You ever watch Yugioh 5Ds? Well there was a theory that Yusei = Zone for a while and at the last minute, the creator trolled the fans big time by making it a random guy. It would be an understatement to say people were annoyed.

My point is that Kishi WILL troll us hard during the final stages of the war, it is only a matter of WHEN he plans to do it.

Lorde
22nd October 2011, 9:45 PM
Naruto been going down hill after sasuke betrayal and it hasn't done much to help it come back up it's gotten way to ridiculous i mean sharigan was something awesome than mankeyo was something above that but than toni had to ruin it with planting rinnegan and ruining madara well earn rinnegan no cheap transplant or fake mutation whats next naruto gets wood release and gains the power to controls the tail beast and after that they make that look insignificant they'll probably fuse with the tail beats and fight it off seems way to much dbz like

I don't think Kishi would go that far. He's given the Sharingan and the Rinnegan to several characters already, but I think this is the limit. I also don't think that he'll troll us by having Naruto gain Wood Release to control the other Bijuu because Naruto still needs to have total control over the Kyuubi before he can move on to other stuff.


My point is that Kishi WILL troll us hard during the final stages of the war, it is only a matter of WHEN he plans to do it.

I can't wait for that moment. And I know that I'll be either very upset or very amused.

Emperor Empoleon
22nd October 2011, 9:47 PM
Anyways, isn't this meteor he's summoned the same thing that Nagato used against Naruto in Konoha? Or was that a different technique?
That technique was Planetary Devastation/Chibaku Tensei.

But this thing is a full on meteor.. ^^; And I'll laugh if Kishimoto's trolling and it's just a genjutsu :3

Platinum fan.
23rd October 2011, 12:07 AM
I wonder when Kabuto himself will fight? I mean with Madara out the war is kinda over. There is no Edo Tensei better then him. I can see Kabuto's character ending soon after Madara or maybe even before it. When it comes to Tobi and Sasuke I don't know who will go first. I'm disappointed that Jugo and Suigetsu didn't do anything. I hope they get involved when Sasuke fights. I really wanted to see Jugo and Kimimaro meet but oh well, I also wanted Naruto to meet Zabuza and Haku again too.

Lorde
23rd October 2011, 1:27 AM
I wonder when Kabuto himself will fight? I mean with Madara out the war is kinda over. There is no Edo Tensei better then him. I can see Kabuto's character ending soon after Madara or maybe even before it. When it comes to Tobi and Sasuke I don't know who will go first. I'm disappointed that Jugo and Suigetsu didn't do anything. I hope they get involved when Sasuke fights. I really wanted to see Jugo and Kimimaro meet but oh well, I also wanted Naruto to meet Zabuza and Haku again too.

I'm thinking that Kabuto will have to fight Itachi soon since Madara can't be allowed to fight for much longer; he'd kill everyone too easily. I think that once Kabuto dies, Tobi will capture Killer Bee, and then Sasuke will fight Naruto. I predict that Naruto will win that battle, but that he'll still be captured (possibly by Zetsu or Tobi).

-Raiga-
23rd October 2011, 2:08 AM
Not true the Eye jutsu Sharingan and Rinnegan are still quite rare, as the first post I quoted highlights.

Yeah, only ALL of the jinchuriki, tobi, and madara have recieved it in the past 10 or so chapters, that's not crazy or anything right?

Much less, this stupid correlation between them is thought out so badly(so far) its ridiculous.

Like, whats impressive now about tobi or the jinchuriki having one sharingan and one rinnegan when the sharigan is just a lesser rinnegan?

I remember when I joked about the author giving akamaru the byakugan in one eye and the sharingan in the other, and now I seriously think that'll happen at the rate kishimoto is handing them out.

Lorde
23rd October 2011, 5:50 AM
Wait a minute, why is Tobi jumping from tree to tree when he can just teleport to wherever it is that he wants to go?

peacemaker987
23rd October 2011, 6:25 AM
It's probably to be more acquainted with controlling his six paths, and since Madara's already on the scene it's better for Naruto and Bee to come closer to him themselves. Kishi's probably just using it as dramatic suspense though.

dewey911p
23rd October 2011, 7:16 AM
Sure, the whole "Tobi and Madara are the same person" theory is unlikely - but it is much more likely then the ridiculous "Tobi = Obito" theory which makes no sense at all. Obito would not be old enough to have met Nagato, especially when Nagato is basically confirmed to be a good few years older then Kakashi. And that Nagato had the Rinnegan when he was 10. And because Nagato got the Rinnegan before Kakashi was likely born, it also means he likely got it before Obito was born...if people get my point.


i dont think Obito is a good choice either. remember the 4th fought tobi and tobi was a full grown adult in the same state he is in today. However, Obito was killed when he was a child and he gave his sharingan to Kakashi. In order for tobi to be obito, then obito would have to have survived being crushed half to death by a giant boulder, escaped from said boulder without any of his friends noticing (and the 4th was there after Obito died and im pretty sure he would have noticed), grown up in time to fight the 4th when the fox attaked the village and managed to replace an eye by that time too. all of this on top of the fact that his friends saw him die, they probably burried his body, and the girl (Rin was it?) who transplanted Obitio's eye was a medical ninja, so she would have known for sure if he died.

all in all if Obito is Tobi he is one hell of a ninja who is nothing short of amazing. But then again, why would Obito be so kind to Kakashi and give him an eye, then turn around and try and kill everyone in the village?

LexSuicune
23rd October 2011, 8:05 AM
This. It has pretty much been foreshadowed since we first heard of the Juubi that Rinnegan was an evolution or alternative of the Sharingan.

Though I think Madara and Tobi are the same person and somehow split their body and/or soul but since the stronger Madara died, the less offensive one (Tobi) thought of a way to revive his former body, also known as "use Nagato as a pawn until he revives your old body".

It explains why Tobi never used any offensive jutsu's during the present day, only his intangibility and mind-warping the Kyuubi into being his b!tch in two different events which both failed epicly.

It also would explain why Tobi never had the MS or the EMS, despite having them in flashbacks.

However, if the destructive power of Madara and the intangibility of "Tobi" were to be combined into one person, then the true Madara would pose a bigger threat then either of the former two have done.

Sure, the whole "Tobi and Madara are the same person" theory is unlikely - but it is much more likely then the ridiculous "Tobi = Obito" theory which makes no sense at all. Obito would not be old enough to have met Nagato, especially when Nagato is basically confirmed to be a good few years older then Kakashi. And that Nagato had the Rinnegan when he was 10. And because Nagato got the Rinnegan before Kakashi was likely born, it also means he likely got it before Obito was born...if people get my point.



You ever watch Yugioh 5Ds? Well there was a theory that Yusei = Zone for a while and at the last minute, the creator trolled the fans big time by making it a random guy. It would be an understatement to say people were annoyed.

My point is that Kishi WILL troll us hard during the final stages of the war, it is only a matter of WHEN he plans to do it.

No, I refuse to watch anything where Yami/Yugi are not in it. Specially the hot motorcycle mess of 5Ds.

And I am very well aware that Kishimoto will troll everyone and make it a random character that's only been in one image in the whole Manga.

Torpoleon
23rd October 2011, 6:55 PM
Wait a minute, why is Tobi jumping from tree to tree when he can just teleport to wherever it is that he wants to go?
For Kishimoto to build up the suspense.

Hopefully Tobi gets to where the real Madara and everyone else is soon. I want answers!

TsukiMirage
23rd October 2011, 8:27 PM
Wait a minute, why is Tobi jumping from tree to tree when he can just teleport to wherever it is that he wants to go? I would have guessed that there was some reason he couldn't warp all the Paths along with him, but then I remembered that with the Rinnegan he can simply summon them wherever he wants. So the most logical answer is because Kishi is being Kishi.

Lorde
23rd October 2011, 10:22 PM
It just seems ridiculous for Tobi to wander around like a normal ninja when he has the ability to travel instantaneously. But whatever. I guess I should get used to Kishi trying to build suspense. He's done it with Tobi, and it's worked pretty well since we still don't know exactly who he is.

SharpedoX
23rd October 2011, 10:51 PM
I just figured Oonoki might sacrifice himself for the sake of the Alliance since the conical variant of the Dust Release was said to be powerful enough to blow up an entire island and he's kinda low on chakra.

Unless it's a genjustu, I don't see how they'll manage.

Banana Knight Arthur
24th October 2011, 3:06 AM
Wait a minute, why is Tobi jumping from tree to tree when he can just teleport to wherever it is that he wants to go?

Tree jumping is funner!

Duh!!!

But he probably cannot do it for extensions of himself or summoned beasts/peoples.

Platinum fan.
24th October 2011, 3:08 PM
It just seems ridiculous for Tobi to wander around like a normal ninja when he has the ability to travel instantaneously. But whatever. I guess I should get used to Kishi trying to build suspense. He's done it with Tobi, and it's worked pretty well since we still don't know exactly who he is.

They probably don't want Tobi to arrive at the battlefield to quickly is all, and to build suspense like everyone said. I to find is silly he's taking his sweet time. For all he knows his target's could be gone now. Clearly Tobi is pulling a "Kakashi" and being late to the party. I can see him now showing up "Sorry I'm late. The tree hopping was murder."

Lunanight
24th October 2011, 5:20 PM
Yeah, only ALL of the jinchuriki, tobi, and madara have recieved it in the past 10 or so chapters, that's not crazy or anything right?

To be fair, the only reason the jinchuuriki have the Rinnegan is because Tobi has it. The only reason the six paths of pain had the Rinnegan was because Nagato had it.
Madara pulled this out of nowhere IMO since, if Nagato mentioned that whole "Rinnegan > EMS > MS > Sharingan" stuff when he was controlling the six paths, maybe it would not be as bad as it is now.

It feels as if Kishi forced that part because he loves the Sharingan so much.
If anyone says otherwise: why is it the only Doijutsu to get upgraded forms?

Byakugan lost it's plot relevance in part II because...well it just did
Rinnegan, it does not have an upgrade because it is an upgraded Sharingan, according to what Kabuto speculated at least.


Whats next? The Byakugan being the pre-evolved form of the Sharingan or even worse: making the EMS much stronger then the Rinnegan.
That last point should not be possible, since how could you make a Doijutsu which has been proven time and time again to be talked up to be a god-like Jutsu that is in fact inferior to something in an anti-climatic way. Both being equal is likely, but not the EMS being superior.

LexSuicune
24th October 2011, 8:31 PM
They already said in the manga, a long, LONG time ago that the Sharingan came from the Byakugan.

Lorde
24th October 2011, 9:49 PM
They already said in the manga, a long, LONG time ago that the Sharingan came from the Byakugan.

I no longer believe anything that was said in Part 1 of the manga since Part 2 has changed a lot of the information.

And I find it a little disappointing that the manga is focusing more on the minor villain (Kabuto) than on Tobi. I've been waiting for him to get involved, but he hasn't done much aside from collecting the leftover Bijuu chakra. At this point, I have to wonder if Kishi will ever give him the screentime he deserves.

Shneak
24th October 2011, 9:54 PM
Tobi has been anticipated as the main villain, and I don't think that will change. I think he's definitely going to get some spotlight once he arrives to the battlefield where Madara is.

TsukiMirage
24th October 2011, 10:28 PM
They already said in the manga, a long, LONG time ago that the Sharingan came from the Byakugan. That was just considered a rumor and once the Rikudou Sennin and his sons were introduced, that rumor was fully revealed as false.

Livinitup17
25th October 2011, 2:00 AM
I don't think Kishi would go that far. He's given the Sharingan and the Rinnegan to several characters already, but I think this is the limit. I also don't think that he'll troll us by having Naruto gain Wood Release to control the other Bijuu because Naruto still needs to have total control over the Kyuubi before he can move on to other stuff.



I can't wait for that moment. And I know that I'll be either very upset or very amused.

[QUOTE=ssjtidus;13630240]Dude, punctuation, please.
Seriously it's understandable thats all that matters please stop trolling

Platinum fan.
25th October 2011, 3:55 AM
I have to agree with The 4th KIRA about not believing stuff from part 1. So far we've learned Itachi was really not evil when part 1 made him out to be the second biggest D*** in Naruto, second only to Sasuke. We learned that Tobi was in fact behind the Nine Tails incident and it was not just on a random rampage (Although this one makes perfect sense and set's up the war) We learned that Sasuke, Itachi, and Kakashi were not the only ones with Sharingan when it was a pretty big deal that these three were the only ones. Turns out Danzo had a bunch of them. Gaara's entire tragic backstory with his mother was a lie and if he had know the truth he probably would have been sane from the get go, making his pain somewhat less then both Naruto and Sasuke's. So yeah. Part 1's logic can easily change.

Banana Knight Arthur
25th October 2011, 4:41 AM
That was just considered a rumor and once the Rikudou Sennin and his sons were introduced, that rumor was fully revealed as false.

If any thing, the Byakugan is the "odd man out".

Sharingan is clearly linked to the Rinnegan, as the immature form of the Rinnegan.

Where does it leave the Byakugan's relation or standing amoungst Doujutsu?

dewey911p
25th October 2011, 8:56 AM
If any thing, the Byakugan is the "odd man out".

Sharingan is clearly linked to the Rinnegan, as the immature form of the Rinnegan.

Where does it leave the Byakugan's relation or standing amoungst Doujutsu?

it can see the chakra network. thats not quite at the level of shooting out intense fire that can burn through anything, or controling other peoples minds, or controling a tailed beast, or creating intense Genjutsu, or projecting it onto the moon to control the whole world, or controling something akin to the 6 paths of pain, but it can... ... ... i forgot where i was going with this. well, Neji is cool and Hinta is cute, what else matters really XD

Crimsonlink
25th October 2011, 9:59 AM
If any thing, the Byakugan is the "odd man out".

Sharingan is clearly linked to the Rinnegan, as the immature form of the Rinnegan.

Where does it leave the Byakugan's relation or standing amoungst Doujutsu?

Byakugan's only relation to Doujutsus is that it will be the strongest one after all the Uchiha are taken care of, since it has the most users.

Also if Naruto wises up and makes a family with Hinata, the Byakugan get Uzumaki level chakra and Rasengan to go with Kaiten and other powerful Taijutsu moves.

quetzalma
25th October 2011, 11:14 AM
*thinks about Naruto/Hinata son using Taijutsu moves with a Rasengan in each hand similar to Hinata Twin Dragon Fists* *drools*

TsukiMirage
25th October 2011, 11:32 AM
If any thing, the Byakugan is the "odd man out".

Sharingan is clearly linked to the Rinnegan, as the immature form of the Rinnegan.

Where does it leave the Byakugan's relation or standing amoungst Doujutsu? It's probably gonna be said to have been the mutation, like the Rinnegan originally was called. Actually, it would be nice if the Byakugan was somehow connected to the Senju, like a branch of them that began to regain some of the Elder brother's power.

Lunanight
25th October 2011, 12:39 PM
They already said in the manga, a long, LONG time ago that the Sharingan came from the Byakugan.

So if the Sharingan came from the Byakugan, and the Sharingan ALSO came from the Rinnegan...what in the world does that make the Rinnegan to the Byakugan.

Other then x-ray vision and extended vision, it REALLY sucks compared to the other two.

Sharingan: Able to control Kyuubi, make Susanoo, Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, Copy other Jutsu's, improved reflexes, etc.

Rinnegan: Master all six of the basic elemental natures, summon the Demon of the Outer Path, being able to use all of the powers of the six paths, Shinra Tensei, Banshō Ten'in, Chibaku Tensei, Reviving up to an entire village by giving up your own life, ripping souls from peoples bodies, reading someones mind, etc. I know there is more that I have not mentioned but I cannot think of them

Byakugan: X-ray vision, extended vision, seeing people's chakra within their bodies. Please tell me it can do more other then those two abilities...by the way, all the abilities of the Doijutsu's I have mentioned come from the eye's power itself, NOT from the user.

barak446
25th October 2011, 4:06 PM
Naturo cant get any ability of those...(you get those ability only if you born with them,.,)

Crimsonlink
25th October 2011, 4:19 PM
Naturo cant get any ability of those...(you get those ability only if you born with them,.,)

Tell that to Kakashi or Tobi. Heck tell that to a lot of the characters in the Narutoverse.

TsukiMirage
25th October 2011, 6:48 PM
So if the Sharingan came from the Byuakugan, and the Sharingan ALSO came from the Rinnegan...what in the world does that make the Rinnegan to the Byakugan.

Other then x-ray vision and extended vision, it REALLY sucks compared to the other two.

Sharingan: Able to control Kyuubi, make Susanoo, Amaterasu, Tsukuyomim Copy other Jutsu's, improved reflexes, etc.

Rinnegan: Master all six of the basic elemental natures, summon the Demon of the Outer Path, being able to use all of the powers of the six paths, Shinra Tensei, Banshō Ten'in, Chibaku Tensei, Reviving up to an entire village by giving up your own life, ripping souls from peoples bodies, reading someones mind, etc. I know there is more that I have not mentioned but I cannot think of them

Byakugan: X-ray vision, extended vision, seeing people's chakra within their bodies. Please tell me it can do more other then those two abilities...by the way, all the abilities of the Doijutsu's I have mentioned come from the eye's power itself, NOT from the user. In exchange for such power, gaining said doujutsu becomes harder. The Rinnegan is a one in a million, the EMS and MS can only be gained by a faction of a faction, the Sharingan only a handful, but the Byakugan can be gained by their whole clan. So while the Byakugan sucks in comparison, it's much easier to gain and use.

Plus, It's sort of like evolution. The Rinnegan has a bunch of random powers, but can only see raw chakra. EMS and MS have a few random powers, but along with the Sharingan can see the color of chakra and even the chakra inside the body. The Byakugan has no random powers, but it can see the very points of chakra along with far distances.

Banana Knight Arthur
25th October 2011, 8:29 PM
Naturo cant get any ability of those...(you get those ability only if you born with them,.,)

He can always get an implanted eye *wink-wink*

I do think he is too proud to accept a Sharingan/Rinnegan transplant though.

Ambre
25th October 2011, 9:09 PM
He can always get an implanted eye *wink-wink*

I do think he is too proud to accept a Sharingan/Rinnegan transplant though.

That is unless Sasuke turns good when he is about to die and his final wish is that naruto have his eyes. One question, would that give naruto/hinata's children both the Byakugan and Rinnegan. Then, they would be too epic for themselves.

Platinum fan.
25th October 2011, 9:20 PM
What's with all this talk about Naruto and Hinata's children? Mixing that many eye powers would either invent a brand new eye jutsu or make the child go blind. Back on the topic the Byakugan feels so underrated now. Unlike the Sharingan or Rinnegan, you can defeat a Byakugan user without being the child o prophecy or having a eye jutsu of your own. Back when Naruto didn't have uber hax moves he defeated Neji, one of the strongest up and coming Hyuga's and Kidomaru would have killed Neji if the plot wasn't against him. Nowadays unless you have eye powers that are not Byakugan, or a tailed beast, boosting your chakra level, you can't beat anyone. This is what makes ranks like Chunin, and Jonin pointless now. Even Kage. The fact that the Raikage alone couldn't beat Sasuke without killing himself in the process speaks volumes.

Banana Knight Arthur
25th October 2011, 9:27 PM
That is unless Sasuke turns good when he is about to die and his final wish is that naruto have his eyes. One question, would that give naruto/hinata's children both the Byakugan and Rinnegan. Then, they would be too epic for themselves.

I dare to think implanted Kekkei Genkai cannot be inherited to the second party's offspring.

dewey911p
25th October 2011, 10:08 PM
That is unless Sasuke turns good when he is about to die and his final wish is that naruto have his eyes. One question, would that give naruto/hinata's children both the Byakugan and Rinnegan. Then, they would be too epic for themselves.


I dare to think implanted Kekkei Genkai cannot be inherited to the second party's offspring.

blood line limit jutsus are just that, a blood line limit. I hate to turn this into a science discusiion, but DNA encoding isnt passed onto the host when a foreign organ is implanted. In other words, even if Naruto got a Sharingan, he wouldnt have the DNA to pass onto his child. Also, if Naruto and Hinata had a child, there might be a mixing of the DNA where one Dojutsu would be recessive (this could explain the rarity of the Sharingan) and if both parents dont have the DNA it wont show up.

to sum up, no, if naruto gets a sharingan it would be passed onto his kid (if he ever has one) and if Naruto and Hinata have a kid the kid will most likely have a Byakugan.

Lorde
26th October 2011, 1:34 AM
That is unless Sasuke turns good when he is about to die and his final wish is that naruto have his eyes.

I would never forgive Kishi if he pulled a stunt like that. Naruto's character is based on the idea that some people have to work hard to get what they want. So it wouldn't make sense for him to get power for free. And the Kyuubi doesn't count in my opinion, since Naruto hasn't been able to control it until recently, and even that took a lot of hard work. I just don't want another Sasuke in this series.

lolipiece
26th October 2011, 2:00 AM
Sasuke turning good would a bigger asspull than...

I can't think of anything.

In all seriousness, Sasuke has gone WAY too far down the path of darkness to come back.

You better have a damn good reason if he ever turns good, Kishimoto.

JD
26th October 2011, 2:17 AM
Sasuke turning good would a bigger asspull than...

I can't think of anything.

In all seriousness, Sasuke has gone WAY too far down the path of darkness to come back.

You better have a damn good reason if he ever turns good, Kishimoto.

If Sasuke ever turns good I think it'll be in order to help Naruto fight Tobi or Kabuto. But otherwise I agree Sasuke has gone way too far to turn back.

Locormus
26th October 2011, 12:55 PM
If any thing, the Byakugan is the "odd man out".

Sharingan is clearly linked to the Rinnegan, as the immature form of the Rinnegan.

Where does it leave the Byakugan's relation or standing amoungst Doujutsu?

WRONG!

SHARINGAN IS NOT LINKED TO RINNEGAN. At least not in the Sharingan -> MS -> EMS -> Rinnegan-way that everybody seems clear to assume. Elder brother DNA-remnants are linked to the Rinnegan, but only in part, as you need the younger brothers DNA-remnants as well..

Rinnegan is the product of having the sages body to a T. What was needed for the Rinnegan was split into his sons, the older brother and the younger brother. Reunite those genes, and you get the sage's body, and the Rinnegan. You don't necessarily have to awakened the Sharingan in order to get the Rinnegan, you just need to reunite the genes.. Or implement an unawakend Sharingan/Byakugan.

Nagato is the prime example of this. Tobi implemented some eye or even blood transfusion or something on him, but he didn't awaken the Sharingan at all. Yet, the Rinnegan did awaken, so one should assume that even a bit of older brother legacy stuff is enough to 'complete' a person. If awakening the Sharingan is a necessity, then why didn't Nagato ever show the possibility of doing so, or Kishi has written himself a plothole.

Awakening the Sharingan is not necessarily the deal here, you need to have the blood or DNA, just like Madara needed Hashirama's DNA in order to get the Rinnegan.

And why I said Sharingan/Byukugan earlier. It's obvious if you look at the older brother's face... That's not something I would call a Sharingan. Thus we could say that it's some form of intermediary state of Doujutsu that then developed in both Sharingan and Byukugan from the elder sons children. Quite possibly the older having the Sharingan and the younger the Byakugan.

THUS!

If Naruto and Hinata get kiddies, then Naruto's son can awaken the Rinnegan. Simple as that.


Byakugan's only relation to Doujutsus is that it will be the strongest one after all the Uchiha are taken care of, since it has the most users.

Also if Naruto wises up and makes a family with Hinata, the Byakugan get Uzumaki level chakra and Rasengan to go with Kaiten and other powerful Taijutsu moves.

And the Rinnegan!!! :O


I dare to think implanted Kekkei Genkai cannot be inherited to the second party's offspring.

But if Hinata and Naruto mate, then they have a Doujutsu which is a trait given down from the elder brother's lineage, and the body of a decendent of the younger son. Hence, the circumstances for a Rinnegan to appear have been set.

Oh, the way I see it:

Older brother -> Uchiha and Hyuuga.
Younger brother -> Senju and Uzumaki.

Madara's Rinnegan is a product of Uchiha and Senju.
Nagato's Rinnegan is a product of Uchiha and Uzumaki
Naruto's son's Rinnegan is a product of Hyuuga and Uzumaki.

AND I'M NOT EVEN A NARUTOxHINATA-fan.. Not at all. But this has turned out to be quite the prospect.

Naruto could potentially vanquish all evil in the end, as in Uchiha, but dies in the same moment, but has a son and puts a little part of himself in the kid so that when he awakens the Rinnegan he can let himself appear to it, and tell it that it will lead the world to peace as the new sage of the six paths.

TsukiMirage
26th October 2011, 3:15 PM
As the Meteorite falls, Oonoki touchs it, makes it lighter and tries to throw it away ( It seems it doens't work that well )
During his last battle, when Madara fought Hashirama, Madara manage to get one portion of Hashirama.
And it seems like he didn't die at that time.

Madara tries to calls for the Kyuubi, but the Kyuubi refuse and give chakra to Naruto.

Madara seems like he can use Mokuton and create a forest.

Naruto use Tajuu Kage Bunshin + Oodama Rasengan and destroy the whole forest.

Badly wounded, Oonoki decides to risk his life fighting seriously. Onoki tries to make the meteor lighter, Madara gets rejected by the Kyuubi and grows an entire forest, Naruto does what he always does.

Banana Knight Arthur
26th October 2011, 6:08 PM
WRONG!

SHARINGAN IS NOT LINKED TO RINNEGAN. At least not in the Sharingan -> MS -> EMS -> Rinnegan-way that everybody seems clear to assume. Elder brother DNA-remnants are linked to the Rinnegan, but only in part, as you need the younger brothers DNA-remnants as well..

Rinnegan is the product of having the sages body to a T. What was needed for the Rinnegan was split into his sons, the older brother and the younger brother. Reunite those genes, and you get the sage's body, and the Rinnegan. You don't necessarily have to awakened the Sharingan in order to get the Rinnegan, you just need to reunite the genes.. Or implement an unawakend Sharingan/Byakugan.

Nagato is the prime example of this. Tobi implemented some eye or even blood transfusion or something on him, but he didn't awaken the Sharingan at all. Yet, the Rinnegan did awaken, so one should assume that even a bit of older brother legacy stuff is enough to 'complete' a person. If awakening the Sharingan is a necessity, then why didn't Nagato ever show the possibility of doing so, or Kishi has written himself a plothole.

Awakening the Sharingan is not necessarily the deal here, you need to have the blood or DNA, just like Madara needed Hashirama's DNA in order to get the Rinnegan.

And why I said Sharingan/Byukugan earlier. It's obvious if you look at the older brother's face... That's not something I would call a Sharingan. Thus we could say that it's some form of intermediary state of Doujutsu that then developed in both Sharingan and Byukugan from the elder sons children. Quite possibly the older having the Sharingan and the younger the Byakugan.

THUS!

If Naruto and Hinata get kiddies, then Naruto's son can awaken the Rinnegan. Simple as that.



And the Rinnegan!!! :O



But if Hinata and Naruto mate, then they have a Doujutsu which is a trait given down from the elder brother's lineage, and the body of a decendent of the younger son. Hence, the circumstances for a Rinnegan to appear have been set.

Oh, the way I see it:

Older brother -> Uchiha and Hyuuga.
Younger brother -> Senju and Uzumaki.

Madara's Rinnegan is a product of Uchiha and Senju.
Nagato's Rinnegan is a product of Uchiha and Uzumaki
Naruto's son's Rinnegan is a product of Hyuuga and Uzumaki.

AND I'M NOT EVEN A NARUTOxHINATA-fan.. Not at all. But this has turned out to be quite the prospect.

Naruto could potentially vanquish all evil in the end, as in Uchiha, but dies in the same moment, but has a son and puts a little part of himself in the kid so that when he awakens the Rinnegan he can let himself appear to it, and tell it that it will lead the world to peace as the new sage of the six paths.

Well if Naruto dies vs. Madara, the timing for him to produce a child is quite off and he misses the mark.

LexSuicune
26th October 2011, 8:24 PM
When are we gonna see Shino fight? I need the Aburame clan to finally unravel.

Lorde
26th October 2011, 9:35 PM
When are we gonna see Shino fight? I need the Aburame clan to finally unravel.

Yeah, Shino always gets the short end of the stick. He wasn't able to fight Kankuro during the actual Chunin Exams, and when he did catch up to him in the forest, he was poisoned and wasn't able to help Sasuke. Then he wasn't around to help Shikamaru and the others with the Sasuke Retrieval mission. And during Part 2, his secret technique failed to trap Tobi, and his fight with Konan wasn't shown in the manga. I think he's the new Tenten to be quite honest. :(

Mark1006
26th October 2011, 10:07 PM
Apparently Kishi finds the bugs incredibly annoying to have to draw.And to be quite honest I think the damage has been done and his character isn't salvageable, he's just too uninteresting seeming and we just haven't seen any of his character enough for him to ever make an impact.

TBH I'd prefer if his character had been replaced rather than leaving it dormant.

LexSuicune
26th October 2011, 10:37 PM
I don't think Shino's uninteresting, far from it.

And his techniques haven't been shown in depth, in fact, Shino could be a massive beast in a fight, but we don't know.

Kishimoto's such a troll.

Lorde
26th October 2011, 10:42 PM
Apparently Kishi finds the bugs incredibly annoying to have to draw.And to be quite honest I think the damage has been done and his character isn't salvageable, he's just too uninteresting seeming and we just haven't seen any of his character enough for him to ever make an impact.

TBH I'd prefer if his character had been replaced rather than leaving it dormant.

He thinks they're annoying to draw? But most of the time they just look like a bunch of specks. But anyway, I don't think Shino should've been replaced. He may not be the most interesting character around, but I think he's stronger than most of his comrades. It's just a shame that he never gets the chance to prove himself.

Shneak
27th October 2011, 1:06 AM
As the Meteorite falls, Oonoki touchs it, makes it lighter and tries to throw it away ( It seems it doens't work that well )
During his last battle, when Madara fought Hashirama, Madara manage to get one portion of Hashirama.
And it seems like he didn't die at that time.

Madara tries to calls for the Kyuubi, but the Kyuubi refuse and give chakra to Naruto.

Madara seems like he can use Mokuton and create a forest.

Naruto use Tajuu Kage Bunshin + Oodama Rasengan and destroy the whole forest.

Badly wounded, Oonoki decides to risk his life fighting seriously. Onoki tries to make the meteor lighter, Madara gets rejected by the Kyuubi and grows an entire forest, Naruto does what he always does.

Eff sakes. Well, at least there's a reason that Naruto is whoring himself out and destroying a forest. (Kyuubi's Chakra)

I'm confused about the Hashirama part though. So the dead Madara got some of his powers, not Tobi? Ehh, we'll see.

Banana Knight Arthur
27th October 2011, 1:56 AM
Eff sakes. Well, at least there's a reason that Naruto is whoring himself out and destroying a forest. (Kyuubi's Chakra)

I'm confused about the Hashirama part though. So the dead Madara got some of his powers, not Tobi? Ehh, we'll see.

I'm even more confused…

So the Kyuubi finally lost all hostility toward Naruto?

Because even after the confrontation within Naruto, where his mom helped and he gained his Rikudo mode, the Kyuubi was still not all that cooperative.

dewey911p
27th October 2011, 6:44 AM
random question:

was there ever a chapter or two in which Madara's fight with Hashirama Senju was shown? i knopw Hashirama had a weak appearance when the hidden leaf was invaded, but was there another time that i missed?

7 tyranitars
27th October 2011, 9:37 AM
I'm even more confused…

So the Kyuubi finally lost all hostility toward Naruto?

Because even after the confrontation within Naruto, where his mom helped and he gained his Rikudo mode, the Kyuubi was still not all that cooperative.

How is that confusing, the Kyuubi hates Madara more then anyone else, he rather gives Naruto some of his power then let Madara controll him again.

TsukiMirage
27th October 2011, 11:47 AM
Verification: Confirmed
Credits: taKl
Source: NF / www.mobilizeandshare.com

561 the power of it

shinobi A: A meteor…how come…!?
shinobi B: is this even supposed to be a ninjutsu…!? We aint getting away THIS…
Oonoki dont say the words of giving up yet! Dont throw yourself off before you do anything for it!
-oonoki flies-
Shinobi A: tuchikage-sama
Gaara: everyone clear out of here as much as you can!
-Shinobis start to run away-

Muu(kabuto): along with us all…?
Madara of course…essentially the jutsu of edotensei is meant to be used like this and to be taken (with enemy). we will be restored after a short while. ! The Shinobi flying in the sky…that means it's the ryotenbin(double scaling) kid of Iwa (rock)?
Naruto: what is our ol' tuchikage up to?
shinobi C: Hes up to lighten the meteor to stop it!

–oonokui puts his hands under the meteor- "Doton cho(super) keiju(light heavy) gan(rock) no jutsu!"

Oonoki: nuoooooooo!!!(a bit more…a bit more and I can stop it!!)
Madara: the double scaling kid...youve improved yourself a bit.
Shinobi B: He made it!
shibobi B: It stopped!!
Madara: well then…what will you do to the second one….Oonoki?
–a meteor bumps against the meteor-
Oonoki:!?
shinobi A: what!!?

Raikages secretary: why the masked man expressly gave the name of madara?
Tunade: …maybe the existence called madara is living in this world? The existence full of falsehood…but by giving such an impression it makes the world fear. The name itself is the power. The name called peoples attention and became an existence that people couldnt ignore and help getting involved in his war. we're already taken in.
-The vibration from the meteor’s fall reaches to where tunade is. It shakes the place.Shikaku: what happened!?
Inos papa: An Intel squad relayed this! the report has it a rock so huge as to it covered the sky was dropped to the battlefield of the 4th division!! And this shake is the result!
Raikage: and no follow-up from the 4th division yet !?
Ao: what…the hell…it got that masses at once…
shikaku: theres no mistake! This is some madaras jutsu. Tunade-sama at this rate…
Tunade: Ill go!!

-the big rock falls-
shinobi A:...What the hell… is this!?
Temari: are you ok gaara!?
Naruto: Gum pops, why you did that to a clone like me...!?
Dodai(aka Luffy): I feel bad for others... but we cant afford to lose your power even though you're a clone….in order to win
Naruto: what’s about grandpa tuchikage?

-Oonoki is lying down. Naruto runs up to him-
Naruto: ol'pa tuchikage!!?
shinobi D: its ok hes still alive. ..Save that hes in a serious condition.

kabuto: this is the power of rikudoh sage….Marvellous
madara: huh…its a sight reminiscent of old times….kabuto or something…how far youve learned about my body?

Kabuto(via muu):i think perhaps…you didnt die at the valley where you fought the 1st hokage hashirama….at that point while losing for the 1st hokage you gained a part of hashiramas power…am I not correct?

Madara: thats why…youre a one smart fish…do you know our plan?
Kabuto: not so much in details …but im on your side…although Im not sure if that fake madara is willing to carry things out according to the plan
Madara:…

Kabuto: by the way ….there are some still alive here and there…tuchikage and kazekage are persistent as expected…what shall we do?

Madara: I have something to make sure..kuchiyose(summonning) no jutsu!!
Naruto: TWITCH!!

–in naruto's inner world-
9b:Grrrrrr…!!
Naruto: (my belly is… hot…)
9b: this chakra calling me …isnt it madaras!!)

Madara: it appears 9b hasnt been caught yet.
Kabuto: this war is for that, this is…9b is inside of its jinchuriki …for now. There…just there …that boy is 9bs jinchuriki, uzumaki Naruto-kun, that is.
Madara: uzumaki….? the mitos clan was….
And its the kid that just attacked me earlier isnt it.  
Kabuto: however hes quite something and…althought he better be captured, the one in front of us is just a clone…shall we go hunt thye original one right now?
madara: …well no…I have some jutsu to try over. And itd be a sight to do it at where people are rather than at nowhere.

A sensor Shinobi: !! They are in the direction of 4 o'clock!!

Madara: mokuton(wood release); jukai(sea of woods) kootan(nativity)!!
Dodai: even mokuton?
a sensor Shinobi: seems like thats all for us…
Naruto: (****. with little chakra left… what can I do…!?)
-the woods are pressing onto Naruto n co-

9b: Naruto…this time Ill lend you my power.
Naruto: (are you trying to say I should vacate my body for you again!?)
9b : no…I just give you chakra…I dont like Madara! Rather than bein controlled by that one I prefer you!
-Naruto is dumbstruck-
Kabuto: (if I keep using madara this well I can rule the war….never thought he would be such a good card for me)

- Naruto starts to run-
Gaara: naruto!
Naruto:tajukagebunshin no jutsu!! Oodamarasengan!!
Oonoki:…
9b:go Naruto!

Naruto: Oodama Rasengan!!
-lots of narutos make lots of rasengans and stop the woods-
Madara: like you said… hes quite something…
Kabuto via muu: … Isnt he?
Naruto: (that chakra 9b gave me…I used it up at once……i feel like disappearing anytime now…)
Oonoki: .naruto…thats enough…leave it to us
gaara: tuchikage…and you too should…
Oonoki: huh….the time has come to regain myself for me …and I got a good opponent for that.

Oonokis determination!!!
end  ★ sirsay


I'm confused about the Hashirama part though. So the dead Madara got some of his powers, not Tobi? Ehh, we'll see. Don't forget that Edo Madara and masked Madara were working together, and that Edo Madara was always the one who had fought Hashirama.


I'm even more confused…

So the Kyuubi finally lost all hostility toward Naruto?

Because even after the confrontation within Naruto, where his mom helped and he gained his Rikudo mode, the Kyuubi was still not all that cooperative. The Kyuubi still hates Naruto, it simply hates Madara much more. It apparently prefers being sealed in Naruto then being controlled as Madara's toy.

Basically, it's the whole enemy of my enemy is my friend situation.

Lorde
27th October 2011, 12:13 PM
Well, this week's chapter was pretty amazing. I'm really glad that Onoki managed to stop the meteor, and I'm even more glad that Tsunade plans to head out to fight. I'm a little disappointed that this Madara also has Wood Release, as it makes things a whole lot more complicated. Despite all that, I'm very happy that the Kyuubi is helping Naruto. I also think that he's doing it mostly to avoid being used by Madara, but I hope that this is the first step towards Naruto and the Kyuubi fighting as a team.

JD
27th October 2011, 2:32 PM
Woah pretty cool chapter, so the Kyuubi lost all hostility towards Naruto or is he just lending him his chakra or because he hated Madara? Either way I see Oonoki dying in the next chapter.

Crimsonlink
27th October 2011, 2:48 PM
I personally hated this week's chapter. How does a Naruto Clone have the Kyuubi inside it? Let alone the original Kyuubi. Plot fail right there.

Madara..... what to say besides being so overpowered its not even funny. Mokuton? Really Kishi, is that what you have come to?

The chapter had good moments but it was all ruined by the hack Madara.

Oh you stopped my first meteor, TROLOLOL let me make another one right away while I have Susanoo on and while I'm at it reveal I stole some power from my enemy by making a forest.

Next week look forward to Madara revealing a third eye with the Byakugan on it and then have red hair all of a sudden.

Platinum fan.
27th October 2011, 3:13 PM
Madara now has wood Jutsu. I won't go on about how this makes him even more cheap, but the chapter was really good. Tsunade is heading out to war. I'm sure she'll make a great healer for the crew because I can't see how her strength will help at all. Kyubi hates Madara so much he's willing to work with Naruto.

You know what would be a real ultimate ninja? A real ninja who actually uses stealth, shurikens, swords, and ninja weapons masterfully.

Somorio
27th October 2011, 3:45 PM
Madara now has wood Jutsu. I won't go on about how this makes him even more cheap, but the chapter was really good. Tsunade is heading out to war. I'm sure she'll make a great healer for the crew because I can't see how her strength will help at all. Kyubi hates Madara so much he's willing to work with Naruto.

You know what would be a real ultimate ninja? A real ninja who actually uses stealth, shurikens, swords, and ninja weapons masterfully.

Not to mention, they'd probably dressed like a normal person, so you know, they can actually do ninja spy like stuff while in the towns. :P

gliscor&yanmega
27th October 2011, 4:56 PM
Apparently Kishi finds the bugs incredibly annoying to have to draw.And to be quite honest I think the damage has been done and his character isn't salvageable, he's just too uninteresting seeming and we just haven't seen any of his character enough for him to ever make an impact.

TBH I'd prefer if his character had been replaced rather than leaving it dormant.

Shino's my second favorite character...he's far from uninteresting to me.

I've seen plenty of people interested in Shino. A lot of people seem to see him as a "pimp", basically just there being cool.

I think people just don't give enough credit to Shino. Sure he hasn't been shown a lot and whatnot, but when he has been shown he makes a mark.

Shino vs Zaku-Shino caused the guy to lose his lower arm and hand...one of the most brutal things a "rookies" had ever done at that point...and still is one of the most brutal for the "rookies". I think Zaku's other hand pretty much got messed up to and probably as a result couldn't use his hands for his jutsus anymore, or at less would take a lot of work to fix it. Shino basically killed the guy, never to return as a threat again. Zaku only ended up being used by Orochimaru for Edo Tensei. In that battle Shino showed how he thinks ahead and was already planning what to do the moment he got into the battle. Shino got hit once and didn't even do much to him...probably let the attack hit even. Zaku couldn't do a thing to Shino.

Shino vs Kankuro-If Shino didn't step in then Sasuke would have had to fight him. Who knows what would have happened then. Sasuke could have gotten poisoned or lose some chakra which could have resulted in death against Gaara since Naruto didn't come in to save Sasuke right away I don't think. Shino was the reason Sasuke could pass. Shino didn't really show anything new in the fight, but he still did his usual thing and thought ahead. Kankuro was a tough opponent at the time too.

Shino vs Tobi-Shino was the only one who got a hit on him. Shino was the reason they figured out Tobi was using Space Time ninjutsu. He pretty much was the only one who was able to do anything in that fight.

Also, Shino is a mysterious character. It's better for him to stay in the shadows and have the readers just fall in love with the mystery of Shino. The more Shino is shown the less there is to wonder about him which takes away from his mysteriousness.

It's not like Kishi doesn't care about Shino or anything. He's hardly the male "Tenten" of the group. Shino has got some focused and maintains his purpose of being a mysterious character. Tenten on the other hand has made no real successful impact in the manga, her best showings are in filler of the anime.

I think people should just stop expecting Shino to be this character who's going to be the next Shikamaru. Shino was never intended to be heavily focused on since he doesn't have much to develop on, he's pretty much already a well rounded character. Kishi probably feels no need to develop him. If anything, Shino will get one more fight(Assuming the manga is nearing it's end), and maybe he'll do something big possibly even die otherwise he'll just be his usual awesome self and come out the victor.

To me, I think Kishi has handled Shino's character perfectly. As much as I love Shino, I wouldn't want him to be shown very often because like I said, it takes away from his mysteriousness, and while that's not bad for the villains of series, it's different for the heros.



EDIT: Also, these last few chapters have been enjoyable for me. Can't wait for the next.

barak446
27th October 2011, 5:08 PM
EVEry one said: wow naruto ringeran.... well it will not heppen no metter what you just dont get it...

Banana Knight Arthur
27th October 2011, 7:31 PM
Well that sure is a cop out if I ever saw one.

All the build-up of the Kyuubi swearing to never willingly help Naruto and this crappy logic they use to justify the Kyuubi's cooperation.

gliscor&yanmega
27th October 2011, 7:46 PM
Well that sure is a cop out if I ever saw one.

All the build-up of the Kyuubi swearing to never willingly help Naruto and this crappy logic they use to justify the Kyuubi's cooperation.

I'm hardly surprised by it. What choice does Kyuubi really have? Just stay in his cage and refuse to help, which could potential mean he ends up controlled by Madara at some point down the line...or help Naruto and live another day where Madara wont be controlling him.

I have a hard time seeing Kishi or anyone come up with anything else given the situation.

uber gon
27th October 2011, 8:05 PM
Would it be weird to expect the Kyuubi to pull a Greed on Madara?

Banana Knight Arthur
27th October 2011, 8:46 PM
Would it be weird to expect the Kyuubi to pull a Greed on MAdara?

Hagane no Renkinjutsushi-reference?

Greed rebelling against Otosan? FTW<3

I guess he is excused then, Kishimoto is, for using such an awesome precedent.

If he really pulls a Greed, he will grow to 100% cooperate with Naruto.

Shneak
27th October 2011, 10:45 PM
It's not really a cop out. The Kyuubi doesn't have a choice. Either give Naruto his power or get captured my his worst enemy.

Good chapter. I'm hoping we see Tsunade fight soon, and it makes me sad that Onoki is going to die.

dewey911p
27th October 2011, 10:53 PM
EVEry one said: wow naruto ringeran.... well it will not heppen no metter what you just dont get it...

care to elaborate then?

any way, the chapter was pretty good but wood release and rinningan? come on, thats to much. but then again, It is Madara Uchiha after all, so i guess it fits (no it doesnt im just lying to myself) but i like the fact that the fox is helping naruto now, not that he helped much, a few clones and some giant ressengans, not bad for a clone, but still nothing major. Naruto said himself that hes at his limit so that makes him usless in this fight, unless the real one shows up that is. Im interested to see Tsunade and the old kage (to lazy to look up the spelling of his name) fight. that should be epic

Banana Knight Arthur
27th October 2011, 11:21 PM
It's not really a cop out. The Kyuubi doesn't have a choice. Either give Naruto his power or get captured my his worst enemy.

Good chapter. I'm hoping we see Tsunade fight soon, and it makes me sad that Onoki is going to die.

I favor his Granddaughter for the position of Tsuchikage, and am sure most villages pick a new Kage once the current one is old as Onoki/Tenbin/whatever.

As long as Tsunade is not in a near-death coma again I'll be happy.

I sure hope she does not have to release her Seal again.


care to elaborate then?

any way, the chapter was pretty good but wood release and rinningan? come on, thats to much. but then again, It is Madara Uchiha after all, so i guess it fits (no it doesnt im just lying to myself) but i like the fact that the fox is helping naruto now, not that he helped much, a few clones and some giant ressengans, not bad for a clone, but still nothing major. Naruto said himself that hes at his limit so that makes him usless in this fight, unless the real one shows up that is. Im interested to see Tsunade and the old kage (to lazy to look up the spelling of his name) fight. that should be epic

Also, I'm glad the convo at Tsunade's location basically confirmed the Masked man is 100% someone else/impostor.

Still he must be good to be able to convince All of Akatsuki, and the ninja world he was someone as Godly as Madara when he wasn't.

gliscor&yanmega
27th October 2011, 11:52 PM
Also, I'm glad the convo at Tsunade's location basically confirmed the Masked man is 100% someone else/impostor.

Still he must be good to be able to convince All of Akatsuki, and the ninja world he was someone as Godly as Madara when he wasn't.

It didn't confirm anything.

No one in the manga knows the truth except Madara and Tobi, probably Zetsu too. Kabuto has acted on nothing but information he and Orochimaru gathered, if he's missing pieces then the whole thing can blow up in his face. Everyone else wouldn't know at all. Untill Madara or Tobi actually say that they aren't the same person(Without an audience to listen to this), then they can still possibly be the same person.

Lorde
28th October 2011, 12:41 AM
I personally hated this week's chapter. How does a Naruto Clone have the Kyuubi inside it? Let alone the original Kyuubi. Plot fail right there.

How is that a "plot fail"? The clone is part of Naruto, so it would make sense for him to have the Kyuubi inside him as well since the clone is connected to the original Naruto. In fact, this isn't the first time that this has been shown; Naruto's clones were able to use the Kyuubi's chakra during his training in the Hidan and Kakuzu arc.

Crimsonlink
28th October 2011, 2:04 AM
How is that a "plot fail"? The clone is part of Naruto, so it would make sense for him to have the Kyuubi inside him as well since the clone is connected to the original Naruto. In fact, this isn't the first time that this has been shown; Naruto's clones were able to use the Kyuubi's chakra during his training in the Hidan and Kakuzu arc.

The clone is part of Naruto for sure, but they showed the CNaruto falling over when Madara summoned the Kyuubi instead of the original Naruto.

Also using the Kyuubi's chakra (In reality dispelling from the violate chakra after reaching 2 tails or higher) is one thing, having Kyuubi in the Clone's mindscape is another.

uber gon
28th October 2011, 2:12 AM
Hagane no Renkinjutsushi-reference?

Greed rebelling against Otosan? FTW<3

I guess he is excused then, Kishimoto is, for using such an awesome precedent.

If he really pulls a Greed, he will grow to 100% cooperate with Naruto.

I was thinking more along the lines of the final chapter of Fullmetal Alchemist. Of course, since getting the Kyuubi is fatal to Naruto, going that route might be difficult.

TsukiMirage
28th October 2011, 2:14 AM
This chapter was quite something. As expected, Onoki was the one who handled the meteor, through he didn't actually die. The second meteor was a surprise. anyway, the whole reasoning that masked Madara was using the name for it's power doesn't exactly make sense, considering he has used it in situations where there was nothing to gain from it. And I have to say, I don't honestly see what Tsunade heading out will accomplish considering her track record. I have to say, I'm having trouble understanding why we're still focusing on a clone and the real Naruto hasn't been placed in the spotlight. Seeing Edo Madara use Mokuton was cool, but Naruto using all the Kyuubi's chakra to mow down some trees was weak. I pretty sure he would have only needed a few FRS to accomplish the same thing without the lost. I can't wait to see Onoki go all out. A really awesome chapter.

Banana Knight Arthur
28th October 2011, 2:37 AM
Even if Onoki does not die right this instant, I expect him to die from the collateral damage he accumulated over the course of Real Madara's assault.

-Raiga-
28th October 2011, 2:52 AM
While the chapter was good, both of the chapters after the madara revelation just inevitiably feel like a let down.

I just think the chapter immediately after should have done another big thing in revealing masked madara, and THEN start filling in the plot holes and all that. But I do know its in the author's best interest to stretch stuff out I suppose.

Lorde
28th October 2011, 4:31 AM
Even if Onoki does not die right this instant, I expect him to die from the collateral damage he accumulated over the course of Real Madara's assault.

I'd be fine with that. I like Onoki and all, but I think we need some major character deaths in order for this war to seem genuine.

And I also wish that Kishi had just revealed who Masked Madara really is. I've been waiting for that moment ever since it was revealed that Tobi had a Sharingan, as I didn't believe him when he claimed to be Madara Uchiha. And Madara's comment in this chapter about a "plan" makes me think that he's worked with Tobi before.

Banana Knight Arthur
28th October 2011, 4:38 AM
I'd be fine with that. I like Onoki and all, but I think we need some major character deaths in order for this war to seem genuine.

And I also wish that Kishi had just revealed who Masked Madara really is. I've been waiting for that moment ever since it was revealed that Tobi had a Sharingan, as I didn't believe him when he claimed to be Madara Uchiha. And Madara's comment in this chapter about a "plan" makes me think that he's worked with Tobi before.

I don't know if I'd call Ononki a major character, but whatever.

Masked Tobi is most likely a lesser Uchiha, either Shisui or someone else, determined to destroy Konoha for the way they treated the Uchiha clan.

TheEnigma
28th October 2011, 4:38 AM
It looks so cool when the Kyuubi gives Naruto chakra. I hope the Kyuubi will obey to Naruto in the next battles.

Lorde
28th October 2011, 4:49 AM
I don't know if I'd call Ononki a major character, but whatever.

Well he's one of the Gokage, so that makes him pretty important as far as I'm concerned. And he's already fought Madara in the past, so he's very useful.


It looks so cool when the Kyuubi gives Naruto chakra. I hope the Kyuubi will obey to Naruto in the next battles.

Like other people said, the Kyuubi most likely helped Naruto because he hated the idea of being used by Madara again. Still, the Kyuubi seemed puzzled when Naruto said he'd help him get over his hatred, so maybe the Kyuubi really is beginning to change for the better.

Banana Knight Arthur
28th October 2011, 4:58 AM
Well he's one of the Gokage, so that makes him pretty important as far as I'm concerned. And he's already fought Madara in the past, so he's very useful.



Like other people said, the Kyuubi most likely helped Naruto because he hated the idea of being used by Madara again. Still, the Kyuubi seemed puzzled when Naruto said he'd help him get over his hatred, so maybe the Kyuubi really is beginning to change for the better.

Dare say I, out of the Gokage, he is of the least importance, only second to Mei, as much as I love her.

Obviously Kaze and Hokage are the most important and relevant followed by Raikage A and then Mei, finally Onoki-ojiisan.

Platinum fan.
28th October 2011, 5:20 AM
Really the Kazekage is the only one I could see not dyeing during the war. The other Gokage's imo all have a fair chance at death, even Tsunade. Her character isn't as important as it use to be, but I'm disappointed Sakura didn't follow Naruto and Sasuke's lead and surpass her master, but I guess her being Hokage and all would have made that unnecessary. (Even then Naruto has done it)

Banana Knight Arthur
28th October 2011, 5:26 AM
Really the Kazekage is the only one I could see not dyeing during the war. The other Gokage's imo all have a fair chance at death, even Tsunade. Her character isn't as important as it use to be, but I'm disappointed Sakura didn't follow Naruto and Sasuke's lead and surpass her master, but I guess her being Hokage and all would have made that unnecessary. (Even then Naruto has done it)

Well there is still time for Sakura-chan to develop further.

I hope we get another timeskip at least 1-2 years before the manga is planned to end.

TheEnigma
28th October 2011, 5:26 AM
Like other people said, the Kyuubi most likely helped Naruto because he hated the idea of being used by Madara again. Still, the Kyuubi seemed puzzled when Naruto said he'd help him get over his hatred, so maybe the Kyuubi really is beginning to change for the better.

Well I hope that the Kyuubi is really beginning to change for the better that way Naruto will gain a power boost.

Lorde
28th October 2011, 5:34 AM
Really the Kazekage is the only one I could see not dyeing during the war. The other Gokage's imo all have a fair chance at death, even Tsunade. Her character isn't as important as it use to be, but I'm disappointed Sakura didn't follow Naruto and Sasuke's lead and surpass her master, but I guess her being Hokage and all would have made that unnecessary. (Even then Naruto has done it)

Yeah, Gaara probably won't die since he's already died before. I think Tsunade should die in a heroic way since she's become sort of irrelevant. I've already predicted that Onoki will die soon since he seems to be running out of power already, plus he's made it clear that he's going to go all-out to stop Madara and Muu. I think Mei will survive, along with A. So I guess 2 out of the 5 Gokage will perish in this war.

Banana Knight Arthur
28th October 2011, 5:45 AM
Yeah, Gaara probably won't die since he's already died before. I think Tsunade should die in a heroic way since she's become sort of irrelevant. I've already predicted that Onoki will die soon since he seems to be running out of power already, plus he's made it clear that he's going to go all-out to stop Madara and Muu. I think Mei will survive, along with A. So I guess 2 out of the 5 Gokage will perish in this war.

Tsunade practically died already, PLUS she is the last man standing of the Densetsu no Sannin. No death for her please!!!

Kill A or even Mei Terumi, who I love to death, but is underutilized, as Kishimoto has too many characters in his story, more than he can effectively develop anyhow.