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waffle_x_v
13th August 2012, 1:08 AM
It could just be tobi took obito's eye but isn't really him. j/s

TsukiMirage
13th August 2012, 1:26 AM
Well we finally get a nearly full explanation of Tobi's ability, though it brings up some questions if he's capable of only moving parts of his body. And I'm glad the whole Tobi=Obito theory is basically over now that Tobi admitted that he took Obito's eye. Anyway, still not liking how friendly the Kyuubi is acting towards Naruto and Minato. Hopefully Naruto and Tobi will both up their game next chapter. Good chapter.

JJDalts
13th August 2012, 2:25 AM
I guess I was starting to buy into Obito=Tobi, but it makes more sense that Tobi just took his eye. I'm hazy on the Kakashi Gaiden eps, did they leave Obito when he died or did they retrieve his body?

And that makes me wonder, is Tobi even an Uchiha? Or did he steal the other Sharingan he had too?

Lorde
13th August 2012, 2:37 AM
And I'm glad the whole Tobi=Obito theory is basically over now that Tobi admitted that he took Obito's eye.

I guess you didn't read the other posts on the previous page and on this one. The theory isn't "over." The spoilers that you posted said that Tobi took the eye from Obito, but the actual chapter said no such thing (at least not the chapter that I and several other people read). Tobi claimed to have gotten his eye (the Sharingan) at the bridge where the battle took place. He could've easily meant that that's where he (Obito) awakened the Sharingan, which would explain Kakashi's reaction. Also, I find it hard to believe that Tobi is not Obito after he went on and ranted to Kakashi and implied that Kakashi didn't deserve to be a hero because of the events that took place there.


I guess I was starting to buy into Obito=Tobi, but it makes more sense that Tobi just took his eye. I'm hazy on the Kakashi Gaiden eps, did they leave Obito when he died or did they retrieve his body?

And that makes me wonder, is Tobi even an Uchiha? Or did he steal the other Sharingan he had too?

It makes little sense that someone just happened to stumble upon Obito's body and took his crushed eye. But if we assume that Tobi is Obito, at least his survival would make some sense; after all, we know what his Mangekyo Sharingan can do. I also find it a tad convenient that we never actually saw Obito die; all we got were some of his "last words" and then the scene faded out to black. Some would argue that that was the end of it, but I seem to recall a similar scene (I'm talking about the end of Sasuke's flashback from chapter 225 where everything faded out to black, but which was clarified in chapter 403).

Shneak
13th August 2012, 5:04 AM
Funny thing about Kakashi's comments... Sakura had already made that analysis in chapter 395

http://c.mhcdn.net/store/manga/8/43-395.0/compressed/naruto_395_fh.naruto_395_10.jpg

See, Sakura isn't all useless.


Anyway, the thing with Tobi just being a random guy that took Obito's eye is even less anticlimactic than Tobi being Obito at this point.

Ver-mont
13th August 2012, 5:09 AM
The eye, Kakashi's reaction, Tobi's rant, Kakashi's flashback of Obito's tomb... I think people are simply in denial of the obvious. Okay, it could have been better, or more surprising, but that's it. I honestly saw this chapter as a "subtle" reveal. Let's see how Kishimoto will handle it from now on.

Izanagi
13th August 2012, 5:58 AM
The eye, Kakashi's reaction, Tobi's rant, Kakashi's flashback of Obito's tomb... I think people are simply in denial of the obvious. Okay, it could have been better, or more surprising, but that's it. I honestly saw this chapter as a "subtle" reveal. Let's see how Kishimoto will handle it from now on.

Even with all this evidence. Maybe I am still in denial but I honestly don't that Tobi is Obito. You have all right to brag when it is revealed the Tobi is Obito but I simply don't think it is that obvious. Or the very least, it going more complicated than that.

TsukiMirage
13th August 2012, 6:28 AM
I guess you didn't read the other posts on the previous page and on this one. The theory isn't "over." The spoilers that you posted said that Tobi took the eye from Obito, but the actual chapter said no such thing (at least not the chapter that I and several other people read). Tobi claimed to have gotten his eye (the Sharingan) at the bridge where the battle took place. He could've easily meant that that's where he (Obito) awakened the Sharingan, which would explain Kakashi's reaction. Also, I find it hard to believe that Tobi is not Obito after he went on and ranted to Kakashi and implied that Kakashi didn't deserve to be a hero because of the events that took place there. According to another translator, the spoiler phased it correctly. Tobi was clearly attempting to demoralize Kakashi now that hi ability was figured out, just like how he then tried to demoralize Naruto moments later. It isn't like Kakashi's guilt isn't well-known.


The eye, Kakashi's reaction, Tobi's rant, Kakashi's flashback of Obito's tomb... I think people are simply in denial of the obvious. Okay, it could have been better, or more surprising, but that's it. I honestly saw this chapter as a "subtle" reveal. Let's see how Kishimoto will handle it from now on. It's not denial, just logic. Tobi being Obito would open up dozen of plot holes and create questions that couldn't be answered unless there was some sort of time travel involved. There's just no real way to fit him in without a bunch of stuff being reconned.

Ver-mont
13th August 2012, 6:35 AM
It's not denial, just logic. Tobi being Obito would open up dozen of plot holes and create questions that couldn't be answered unless there was some sort of time travel involved. There's just no real way to fit him in without a bunch of stuff being reconned.

I don't know what kind of plot holes would be created, especially involving time travel. Everything we know about Tobi happened after Obito "died", so he was free to do it all. And there's no such thing as "he was too young for this", we know how little age matters in a shonen manga. That or "Tobi" is some kind of legacy character, Obito took on the mantle from someone else, but I think there's no way he isn't the one behind the mask right now.

And well, Kishimoto talks about his Kakashi year again and again, it makes perfect sense that Kakashi will take the spotlight because his former good friend will turn out to be the guy behind the mask.

TsukiMirage
13th August 2012, 6:57 AM
I don't know what kind of plot holes would be created, especially involving time travel. Everything we know about Tobi happened after Obito "died", so he was free to do it all. And there's no such thing as "he was too young for this", we know how little age matters in a shonen manga. That or "Tobi" is some kind of legacy character, Obito took on the mantle from someone else, but I think there's no way he isn't the one behind the mask right now.

And well, Kishimoto talks about his Kakashi year again and again, it makes perfect sense that Kakashi will take the spotlight because his former good friend will turn out to be the guy behind the mask. The dealings with Madara, Yahiko, Nagato, and Kisame all would have happen before the Third war and thus Obito's "death". And then there's the idea that Obito completely awaken and mastered his MS in less then a year, whereas a genius like Kakashi needed a few decades to do so. Plus there's the question of how he isn't blind after all this time. And how he has gained so much information about everyone. Or why from what we've seen of his face, it's much older then Obito's should be.

Lorde
13th August 2012, 7:13 AM
Anyway, the thing with Tobi just being a random guy that took Obito's eye is even less anticlimactic than Tobi being Obito at this point.

If he's just some random ninja who took Obito's Sharingan, I'm going to scream. Tobi knows way too much about the events of the past, and I don't think some random ninja could have gathered all that information on their own. Honestly, I'd rather Tobi was Ramen guy than some common ninja.


The eye, Kakashi's reaction, Tobi's rant, Kakashi's flashback of Obito's tomb... I think people are simply in denial of the obvious. Okay, it could have been better, or more surprising, but that's it. I honestly saw this chapter as a "subtle" reveal. Let's see how Kishimoto will handle it from now on.

I'd just like to point out that the grave/memorial that Kakashi visited in his brief flashback wasn't Obito's. We've seen Obito's memorial before (I remember seeing it in chapter 139), but the cemetery that Kakashi was seen visiting looked like the one where Hiruzen was buried. Not that it invalidates your theory; I just wanted to point that out.

Ver-mont
13th August 2012, 7:18 AM
If he's just some random ninja who took Obito's Sharingan, I'm going to scream. Tobi knows way too much about the events of the past, and I don't think some random ninja could have gathered all that information on their own. Honestly, I'd rather Tobi was Ramen guy than some common ninja.

It seems to me Obito is the only fitting candidate left who can be revealed as Tobi which won't seem too little or obscure or simply out of nowhere.

TsukiMirage
13th August 2012, 11:29 AM
It seems to me Obito is the only fitting candidate left who can be revealed as Tobi which won't seem too little or obscure or simply out of nowhere. There's still Izuna, due to his connect to Madara and such, and a smaller possibility at it being Kagami or another Uchiha that was related to Obito.

Ver-mont
13th August 2012, 12:37 PM
There's still Izuna, due to his connect to Madara and such, and a smaller possibility at it being Kagami or another Uchiha that was related to Obito.

I don't think Tobi will be revealed as any... too minor character. When we get a dramatic unmask, it's usually a big or somehow important, relevant character being revealed (otherwise there would be no point in concealing his identity from the audience anyway). I believe he's either Izuna or Obito, and I'm betting on Obito because that seems to work better with the story, it will give Kakashi his turn on the spotlight and such.

I'm sure that, if he definitely turns out to be Obito, Kishimoto will have good explanations about why and how he became Tobi and achieved everything he did.

JJDalts
13th August 2012, 2:41 PM
Kishimoto will have good explanations

Bwahahahahaha, really?

I kid xD

Ver-mont
13th August 2012, 2:46 PM
Bwahahahahaha, really?

I kid xD

Hey, a guy can dream. I'm hoping he'll put some work, since it's an important character.

Lorde
13th August 2012, 6:23 PM
Personally, I'm not getting my hopes up for a good explanation. I think Kishi's storytelling skills are mediocre at best, so it's not like I'm expecting an epic plot-twist. I do feel kind of bad for the people who hate flashback chapters though; I bet we're going to get a ton of them when Tobi reveals his true identity.

JJDalts
13th August 2012, 11:11 PM
I do feel kind of bad for the people who hate flashback chapters though; I bet we're going to get a ton of them when Tobi reveals his true identity.

Ah I don't mind flashbacks if they are interesting and contribute something, unlike that GODAMN flashback of Sakura asking Naruto to bring Sasuke back before the timeskip. Seriously, how many times did they replay that clip?

Platinum fan.
14th August 2012, 12:27 AM
I imagine when Tobi is revealed all his story flashbacks will be long enough to fill a entire volume, similar to how Itachi and Sasuke's backstory ate away nearly all of volume 25. That was one of the longest pauses during a fight and it was Naruto vs Sasuke too.

DucksGoMooful
14th August 2012, 5:01 PM
My problem with the Obito theory is that if Tobi is really Obito, how could he have both Sharingan? His right eye was crushed and his left was given to Kakashi, but during the fight with Konan Tobi is shown to have both Sharingan.

Also there's the obvious reason of Obito being dead, so I think Tobi has to be someone else.

Ver-mont
14th August 2012, 5:03 PM
My problem with the Obito theory is that if Tobi is really Obito, how could he have both Sharingan? His right eye was crushed and his left was given to Kakashi, but during the fight with Konan Tobi is shown to have both Sharingan.

Also there's the obvious reason of Obito being dead, so I think Tobi has to be someone else.

Remember the left side of his face was a different color (the anime makes it painfully obvious, particularly), so it was probably artificial. Somehow he kept his right eye intact.
(and well, it doesn't matter if Tobi is Obito or not, we know his right eye wasn't crushed because Tobi is wearing it in his right socket now anyway, that's a fact)

And we didn't see him outright die, just being left to die. That makes all difference, especially in fiction.

DucksGoMooful
14th August 2012, 5:12 PM
Remember the left side of his face was a different color (the anime makes it painfully obvious, particularly), so it was probably artificial. Somehow he kept his right eye intact.
(and well, it doesn't matter if Tobi is Obito or not, we know his right eye wasn't crushed because Tobi is wearing it in his right socket now anyway, that's a fact)

And we didn't see him outright die, just being left to die. That makes all difference, especially in fiction.

I agree that he could've stolen a Sharingan for his left eye, since he replaced it with the Rinnegan anyway. And logically I guess it makes sense that Tobi would have Obito's right eye, since his space-time relationship with Kakashi proves that. I'm still betting that he's not Obito though, and I'm going to keep thinking Obito's dead. :D

Lorde
14th August 2012, 7:15 PM
I could understand some people's skepticism of the Tobi = Obito theory if we were discussing it a few years ago when we still thought Tobi was Madara, but given everything that has happened since Tobi declared war, I think it's silly to discredit it just because of a few inconsistencies (things that Kishi could easily explain using ninja world logic). The way I see it, only a few people were present at Kannabi Bridge, and it's obvious that one of them is Tobi. The only viable candidates are Obito and Rin. And it's funny because it seems some people are so against the possibility that Tobi is Obito, that they're willing to believe that he's Rin, which is even stranger and more complex than the theory they're against.

TsukiMirage
14th August 2012, 9:21 PM
I think that Rin thing is still a joke, at least as far as I've seen. Anyway, while Obito is clearly not impossible given this is Kishi we're talking about, it just seems way to unlikely given all the previous information granted. And technically, Obito was gone even before the group had got to Kannabi bridge.

7 tyranitars
14th August 2012, 9:47 PM
We are forgetting one thing though. I am not saying that the obitobi theory is crazy considering our recent information, and lack of other suspects. But Madara knew Tobi personaly. How do we explain that?

Shadow Lucario
14th August 2012, 10:17 PM
We are forgetting one thing though. I am not saying that the obitobi theory is crazy considering our recent information, and lack of other suspects. But Madara knew Tobi personaly. How do we explain that?

That and the fact that he can replace his limbs. Where exactly did he get Hashirama's cells from? Is Orochimaru also involved in this as well?

Lorde
14th August 2012, 11:33 PM
We are forgetting one thing though. I am not saying that the obitobi theory is crazy considering our recent information, and lack of other suspects. But Madara knew Tobi personaly. How do we explain that?

I have a few theories, but I'd rather not state them since most of them are too far-out. But since Madara knew Nagato, it isn't that strange that he knows Tobi as well.

JJDalts
15th August 2012, 1:26 AM
Where exactly did he get Hashirama's cells from?

Waaaay too many people have Hashirama's cells.

Joltik-Kid
15th August 2012, 1:28 AM
Madara achieving the Rinnegan could give us a clue on why it could be Obito... maybe Madara's past spirit is possessing Tobi, but he still has his own memories as well as Madara's

TsukiMirage
15th August 2012, 10:34 AM
That and the fact that he can replace his limbs. Where exactly did he get Hashirama's cells from? Is Orochimaru also involved in this as well? Presumably from his partnership with Madara. It's also unlikely that Orochimaru knew Madara, as his and Kabuto's information about him was all guesswork. If he knew Madara, he wouldn't have had to make guesses about his existences and power.

7 tyranitars
15th August 2012, 1:45 PM
Waaaay too many people have Hashirama's cells.

Need something to rival the Haxringan

Lorde
15th August 2012, 6:49 PM
Waaaay too many people have Hashirama's cells.

And most of the people who have his cells were already powerful to begin with. Kishi took things too far when he decided to give them to Tobi and Madara. I don't mind that Danzo had them, though. He needed them in order to use Izanagi to its full extent. Without that jutsu, he wouldn't have been a threat.

JJDalts
15th August 2012, 7:53 PM
Need something to rival the Haxringan

Well true but I think it feels a bit cheap that so many non-Senju have them.

The Sharingan is hax but apart from Kakashi and Danzo(and possibly Tobi, depends), it's pretty much exclusively an Uchiha thing.

SharpedoX
15th August 2012, 11:32 PM
One thing that doesn't add up is the Konoha attack Tobi perpetrated before the series began. I mean look at Kakashi and Gai's age and stature back there. And Tobi seems considerably older in his spar against the Yondaime.

Something's fishy.

7 tyranitars
15th August 2012, 11:36 PM
One thing that doesn't add up is the Konoha attack Tobi perpetrated before the series began. I mean look at Kakashi and Gai's age and stature back there. And Tobi seems considerably older in his spar against the Yondaime.

Something's fishy.

Exactly! Tobi can't be obito because there are more then just a few inconsitencies.

Lorde
15th August 2012, 11:43 PM
One thing that doesn't add up is the Konoha attack Tobi perpetrated before the series began. I mean look at Kakashi and Gai's age and stature back there. And Tobi seems considerably older in his spar against the Yondaime.

Something's fishy.


Exactly! Tobi can't be obito because there are more then just a few inconsitencies.

I already posted some theories about that, which were ignored. But if anyone is interested, here they are: I don't think Tobi was that much taller than Kakashi and Guy, but even if he was, I don't see what the big deal is. Is it not possible that Obito grew faster than his peers? Because from what I've seen, everyone grows differently. And even if we ignore real world examples, there's Zetsu's/Hashirama's cells, which we know are integrated in Tobi's body. Is it not possible that they were responsible for his growth spurt? I don't understand why some people ignore the obvious and focus instead on complicating things. Of all the inconsistencies pointed out so far, the height thing is the most inconsequential one.

Crimsonlink
16th August 2012, 1:07 AM
Tobi cannot be Obito imo but Tobi can use Obito's body as a base for his spirit/soul/chakra? Too many inconsistencies to explain if it is the original Obito who suddenly became revenge obsessed after being crushed under a rock.

TsukiMirage
16th August 2012, 2:04 AM
There would also be the question of why Minato didn't recognized him, especially when Minato showed sensory abilities.

Heartlessangel17
16th August 2012, 4:32 AM
Soooooo....It's a fact that Tobi HAS Obito's eye...And how Tobi told Kakashi he's changed, it would seem that Tobi knew Kakashi...had Obito's eye....*coughtobiisobitocough*

DANdotW
16th August 2012, 10:14 AM
Their name are also similar. That's practically confirmed it. (I'm obviously joking. Although their names are very similar.)

7 tyranitars
16th August 2012, 12:57 PM
I already posted some theories about that, which were ignored. But if anyone is interested, here they are: I don't think Tobi was that much taller than Kakashi and Guy, but even if he was, I don't see what the big deal is. Is it not possible that Obito grew faster than his peers? Because from what I've seen, everyone grows differently. And even if we ignore real world examples, there's Zetsu's/Hashirama's cells, which we know are integrated in Tobi's body. Is it not possible that they were responsible for his growth spurt? I don't understand why some people ignore the obvious and focus instead on complicating things. Of all the inconsistencies pointed out so far, the height thing is the most inconsequential one.

That could solve that problem, but how do you explain that Tobi gave Nagato the Rinnegan? Keeping in mind that was before the second shinobi world war. And obito was 13 at the time of the third shinobi world war?

RiotFire
16th August 2012, 1:59 PM
Has Orochimaru's role in all this been explained at all yet? Apparently he knows everything that's going on so is it possible he got to Obito around his time of his death... hense the cell splicing, etc?

I tend to only drop in and out of the series so don't shoot me if I'm on the wrong track...

SharpedoX
16th August 2012, 4:20 PM
I already posted some theories about that, which were ignored. But if anyone is interested, here they are: I don't think Tobi was that much taller than Kakashi and Guy, but even if he was, I don't see what the big deal is. Is it not possible that Obito grew faster than his peers? Because from what I've seen, everyone grows differently. And even if we ignore real world examples, there's Zetsu's/Hashirama's cells, which we know are integrated in Tobi's body. Is it not possible that they were responsible for his growth spurt? I don't understand why some people ignore the obvious and focus instead on complicating things. Of all the inconsistencies pointed out so far, the height thing is the most inconsequential one.

You're right. I tend to forget Zetsu's potential role in all of this. Still, I can't see how would Obito end up all revengeful-y considering his goofy nature (at least from what I remember from it). Granted, Kishi will elaborate on the matter.

Lorde
16th August 2012, 6:33 PM
That could solve that problem, but how do you explain that Tobi gave Nagato the Rinnegan? Keeping in mind that was before the second shinobi world war. And obito was 13 at the time of the third shinobi world war?

I don't think he did anything; when he told Konan that he was the one who gave Nagato the Rinnegan, he was still pretending to be Madara. He was probably just playing the part very well. I think the real Madara gave Nagato the Rinnegan, which seems much more likely since Madara knew who Nagato was.


You're right. I tend to forget Zetsu's potential role in all of this. Still, I can't see how would Obito end up all revengeful-y considering his goofy nature (at least from what I remember from it). Granted, Kishi will elaborate on the matter.

That's one of the few inconsistencies that I acknowledge. I have theories about it too, but there's no point discussing them right now since Kishi will probably throw a curve ball.

Lunanight
16th August 2012, 10:55 PM
People say Tobi is Obito because their names are similar. I will shut down that argument with one name: Tobirama. If he created the edo tensei, god knows what else he has up his sleeves. Secondly, Tobirama is basically Tobi with 'rama' added onto it. Obito is Tobi, only with the letters re-arranged and one of the o's are taken out. Which one looks/sounds more like Tobi again?

No, I don't believe Tobirama is Tobi, I'm just countering the Tobi=Obito theory using the logic that just because their names are similar means that they are the same. Personally, I think that Tobi is Tobi, as in nobody we know of in the current canon. Not Obito, not a Zetsu body, not Shisui, not Izuna but nobody we have true knowledge of.

Sure, Tobi has Obito's eye, that is a fact, but anyone could go up to Obito's dead body and rip out the remaining Sharigan. Didn't Tobi have like a laboratory filled with Sharingan when we saw him implant Itachi's eyes into Sasuke? Perhaps Obito's Sharingan is just one of the many Tobi already has.

Lorde
17th August 2012, 5:01 AM
Sure, Tobi has Obito's eye, that is a fact, but anyone could go up to Obito's dead body and rip out the remaining Sharigan. Didn't Tobi have like a laboratory filled with Sharingan when we saw him implant Itachi's eyes into Sasuke? Perhaps Obito's Sharingan is just one of the many Tobi already has.

I don't believe that a crushed Sharingan could be saved; as I said before, Shisui's Sharingan was crushed, and Tobi was upset because it was forever lost (at least that's what he thought, he didn't know that Itachi gave the other one to Naruto, but that's irrelevant for now).

Heartlessangel17
17th August 2012, 5:17 AM
People say Tobi is Obito because their names are similar. I will shut down that argument with one name: Tobirama. If he created the edo tensei, god knows what else he has up his sleeves. Secondly, Tobirama is basically Tobi with 'rama' added onto it. Obito is Tobi, only with the letters re-arranged and one of the o's are taken out. Which one looks/sounds more like Tobi again?

No, I don't believe Tobirama is Tobi, I'm just countering the Tobi=Obito theory using the logic that just because their names are similar means that they are the same. Personally, I think that Tobi is Tobi, as in nobody we know of in the current canon. Not Obito, not a Zetsu body, not Shisui, not Izuna but nobody we have true knowledge of.

Sure, Tobi has Obito's eye, that is a fact, but anyone could go up to Obito's dead body and rip out the remaining Sharigan. Didn't Tobi have like a laboratory filled with Sharingan when we saw him implant Itachi's eyes into Sasuke? Perhaps Obito's Sharingan is just one of the many Tobi already has.

Only problem with your theory: At the time Obito 'died' he had just awakened his sharingan. What use would a crushed, newly awakened Sharingan be to whoever found it? Doesn't really make sense. Also, the way Tobi was speaking to Kakashi this chapter, it's obvious he knew him somehow, and, it would seem, how he thought before the war Obito 'died.' It is entirely possible that, perhaps even Madar Uchiha himself found Tobi, saved him, and twisted his mind to the moon's eye plan (I mean, c'mon. No one knows just WHEN Madara died exactly, only that he awakened the Rinnegan before he died.)

TsukiMirage
17th August 2012, 6:35 AM
The idea that Tobi purposely searched out dead Uchiha's to steal their potential Sharingans make more sense then the idea that Madara just somehow managed to find Obito and twist his mind in less then a year, as Tobi has outright been shown having a thing for collecting eyes. And with the implications that the Rinnegan that Nagato possessed was originally Madara's, we know Madara would have died at least 10+ years before Obito did.

vodor
17th August 2012, 12:03 PM
Okay , I'm getting impatient!!!
How long it gonna take for Naruto to break Tobi's Mask???

Shadow Lucario
17th August 2012, 1:26 PM
We never saw Obito's eye get completely destroyed. It was just his right side. It's obvious that his Sharingan wasn't destroyed because Tobi has it.


No, I don't believe Tobirama is Tobi, I'm just countering the Tobi=Obito theory using the logic that just because their names are similar means that they are the same. Personally, I think that Tobi is Tobi, as in nobody we know of in the current canon. Not Obito, not a Zetsu body, not Shisui, not Izuna but nobody we have true knowledge of.

I HIGHLY doubt that Tobi is a character we have no knowledge of. There would be no reason for him to wear a mask that completely covers his face then. He could have just discarded the mask if we didn't know who he was. It would be ludicrous to hint at his face, almost show it, not show it, and then have him be a face we've never seen before.

Lorde
18th August 2012, 12:06 AM
The idea that Tobi purposely searched out dead Uchiha's to steal their potential Sharingans make more sense then the idea that Madara just somehow managed to find Obito and twist his mind in less then a year, as Tobi has outright been shown having a thing for collecting eyes. And with the implications that the Rinnegan that Nagato possessed was originally Madara's, we know Madara would have died at least 10+ years before Obito did.

I'm sure that stuff could easily be answered with a few flashbacks and retcons.


We never saw Obito's eye get completely destroyed. It was just his right side. It's obvious that his Sharingan wasn't destroyed because Tobi has it.

If the Tobi = Obito theories are true, then it makes more sense for Obito's eye to remain unscathed since we know what his MS was capable of; he could've awakened it in the heat of the moment and became intangible. But it makes very little sense for his Sharingan to remain undamaged if he died. The boulders that fell on him would have ruined the eye, among other things.

DucksGoMooful
18th August 2012, 12:41 AM
I'm guessing that all (or most) will be revealed in next week's chapter.

iFi Salamander
18th August 2012, 1:22 AM
My personal theory is that Tobi is a relative of Obito. If Kishimoto really wrote him in as Obito it was be like I read all of this for nothing. That would be the generic and highly predictable Shonen solution.

Also beyond the huge writing flaws it would present, Tobi stated he "obtained" the eye "from" the bridge. This sentence structure strongly implies a loot rather than an awakening. I am pretty sure Obito is what Kishi wants us to think and there will be a twist.

Hell at this point it is very possible Tobi isn't even an Uchiha.

Ver-mont
18th August 2012, 1:26 AM
I HIGHLY doubt that Tobi is a character we have no knowledge of. There would be no reason for him to wear a mask that completely covers his face then. He could have just discarded the mask if we didn't know who he was. It would be ludicrous to hint at his face, almost show it, not show it, and then have him be a face we've never seen before.

Exactly. If he's just a random guy, what's the point in hiding his face from the audience? That would be completely lame, and I don't think it has a real chance of happening. When writers use a prominent masked character, they intend him/her to have a significant true identity, usually another established character.


My personal theory is that Tobi is a relative of Obito. If Kishimoto really wrote him in as Obito it was be like I read all of this for nothing. That would be the generic and highly predictable Shonen solution.

As if Kishimoto was a master trickster always avoiding the shonen commonplace.

DucksGoMooful
18th August 2012, 1:36 AM
Exactly. If he's just a random guy, what's the point in hiding his face from the audience? That would be completely lame, and I don't think it has a real chance of happening. When writers use a prominent masked character, they intend him/her to have a significant true identity, usually another established character.

But what if the character was well-known by the characters in the story as someone famous but the readers had no knowledge of him? Then, when he/she was finally revealed, there would be a massive explanatory flashback.


Now I'm thinking Tobi is female.

Lorde
18th August 2012, 3:01 AM
My personal theory is that Tobi is a relative of Obito. If Kishimoto really wrote him in as Obito it was be like I read all of this for nothing. That would be the generic and highly predictable Shonen solution.

Also beyond the huge writing flaws it would present, Tobi stated he "obtained" the eye "from" the bridge. This sentence structure strongly implies a loot rather than an awakening. I am pretty sure Obito is what Kishi wants us to think and there will be a twist.

Tobi could be Obito, Izuna, Shisui, Tobirama, Raman guy or Madara's true body and it would still be predictable because people have thought of all the possibilities.

Also, the wording in the last chapter was ambiguous. The reason why some people believe that it implies Tobi awakened the Sharingan at Kannabi Bridge is because he has spoken to Kakashi as if he knew him personally. That narrows down the list of characters who could be Tobi, and since we know Obito was a huge influence on Kakashi, it seems more probable that Tobi is Obito. Also, I think we need to ask ourselves what Tobi is hiding beneath his mask. There's obviously something about the left side of his face that is important, otherwise we would have seen that side of his face a long time ago, like when he activated Izanagi and snuck up behind Konan.

iFi Salamander
18th August 2012, 3:30 AM
Tobi could be Obito, Izuna, Shisui, Tobirama, Raman guy or Madara's true body and it would still be predictable because people have thought of all the possibilities.

Also, the wording in the last chapter was ambiguous. The reason why some people believe that it implies Tobi awakened the Sharingan at Kannabi Bridge is because he has spoken to Kakashi as if he knew him personally. That narrows down the list of characters who could be Tobi, and since we know Obito was a huge influence on Kakashi, it seems more probable that Tobi is Obito. Also, I think we need to ask ourselves what Tobi is hiding beneath his mask. There's obviously something about the left side of his face that is important, otherwise we would have seen that side of his face a long time ago, like when he activated Izanagi and snuck up behind Konan.

There have been manga chapters with an open faced Tobi and his face looked normal. It just didn't show it in full detail, he also had two Sharigans because he got the one Rinnegan implant.

Tobi also knew Guy personally. It wouldn't shock me if Akatsuki was sending intel back to headquarters while they were fighting Guy and Kakashi. Kakashi is also a famous ninja so it shouldn't be a shock that Tobi would know about him. In fact his comment wasn't even all that personal.

-Raiga-
19th August 2012, 12:01 AM
Exactly. If he's just a random guy, what's the point in hiding his face from the audience? That would be completely lame, and I don't think it has a real chance of happening. When writers use a prominent masked character, they intend him/her to have a significant true identity, usually another established character.

Tobi's character is that he doesn't want to be known or cared about, so wouldn't wearing a mask be the MOST logical thing for someone like him to do?


Anyways, I liked the chapter. Kishimoto is just DESTROYING with his knowledge of how to fool the fanbase. I thank him for making it really blatant this chapter(that tobi isn't obito), I myself was starting to think he'd just go with obito due to how much reaction its making, but its good to know he's above that.

Cool to see kakashi still get more time to. I'd really love if kakashi could win the battle with a new technique, rather then see naruto's special biju bomb in his 17th form do it.

Lorde
19th August 2012, 2:01 AM
There have been manga chapters with an open faced Tobi and his face looked normal. It just didn't show it in full detail, he also had two Sharigans because he got the one Rinnegan implant.

Tobi also knew Guy personally. It wouldn't shock me if Akatsuki was sending intel back to headquarters while they were fighting Guy and Kakashi. Kakashi is also a famous ninja so it shouldn't be a shock that Tobi would know about him. In fact his comment wasn't even all that personal.

His other Sharingan was one that he collected, but as it doesn't pertain to this particular debate, I won't over-analyze it. And I don't think you understood what I meant. I didn't mean that Tobi just has a lot of knowledge about other characters. I meant that he's speaking to Kakashi as if they've known each other for years. It wouldn't make sense if all Tobi did was research Kakashi; he would need to be an acquaintance of Kakashi's at the very least. And I do believe his comments were personal; he said that Kakashi spoke too much and that his words meant nothing, but Tobi has only interacted with Kakashi a few times under his current alias. But I'd like to retract one of my previous statements anyway. I said that there was a 99% chance that Tobi is Obito, but it feels more like 97% now. I'm giving Rin 2% and the last 1% is for "other."

And again, I don't understand how the last chapter "made it clear that Tobi isn't Obito." I've personally tried to keep an open mind and view things from different perspectives, but there's too much evidence in favor of the theory that they're the same person for me to overlook. I would understand if people were giving their personal opinion , but some people are saying that there's absolutely no way it could be possible. It's very disheartening.

Ver-mont
19th August 2012, 2:12 AM
But what if the character was well-known by the characters in the story as someone famous but the readers had no knowledge of him? Then, when he/she was finally revealed, there would be a massive explanatory flashback.

Well, that would be very cheap. I'd feel cheated, personally.

7 tyranitars
22nd August 2012, 12:31 PM
So when is the chapter out?

Shadow Lucario
22nd August 2012, 2:00 PM
Chapter is out. Tobi finally uses Mangekyou Sharingan. Of course it's the same as Kakashi's since they have the eyes of the same person. He said he'll show him the real Kamui so it sounds as if Kakashi is slacking on his Jutsu. And the mask is broken. If it switches back to Sasuke or the Kages I called this over a week ago.

lolipiece
22nd August 2012, 2:16 PM
Finally.

Naruto, could you be a dear and drive the rest of that Rasengan into his face? Just to end this crap? At this point, I couldn't care less who Tobi is.

We've all already guessed it, and if we haven't, it's gonna be impossible to live up to the expectations it's been building up to.

Where's that Ten Tails?

7 tyranitars
22nd August 2012, 2:22 PM
Well well, the mask is smashed.

stevendat
22nd August 2012, 3:22 PM
Time to put that troll face on and switch over to another fight.

Torpoleon
22nd August 2012, 3:23 PM
Please, please, please don't switch over to another fight next week!

JD
22nd August 2012, 3:43 PM
I feel like we'll switch over to either Sasuke or Gokages next chapter.. and if we're lucky we'll find out Tobi's identity in chapter 600.

SkyDeity
22nd August 2012, 4:33 PM
Didn't someone say earlier on that Tobi's identity would be revealed in Chapter 600 according to an interview with Kishi? If so, then yeah, we'll have to wait...typically, the troll switch over happens in situations like these.

DucksGoMooful
22nd August 2012, 4:40 PM
I was almost right! I said it'd be revealed in this week's chapter, but I was wrong (but oh so close). Oh well.
I do want to see what's happening with Sasuke, but I'd rather learn Tobi's identity first.

Torpoleon
22nd August 2012, 5:41 PM
Didn't someone say earlier on that Tobi's identity would be revealed in Chapter 600 according to an interview with Kishi? If so, then yeah, we'll have to wait...typically, the troll switch over happens in situations like these.I thought all that interview said was that we'd find out Tobi's identity in a couple of weeks.

We got that interview at the very end of July by the way.

Lorde
22nd August 2012, 6:32 PM
So the chapter was more fighting. But I loved it for many reasons. Kakashi also thinks that Tobi is Obito, as does Guy apparently, and from the way Tobi spoke about Kamui, it's beginning to get harder and harder to ignore the theory that he really is Obito. Aside from those blatant hints, I enjoyed watching Naruto attack Tobi. There was something satisfying about that, plus the mask broke. And by the way, I think some of you are trying too hard to make Kishi seem like a troll.

DucksGoMooful
22nd August 2012, 6:39 PM
Hmm...I really hope it's not Obito.
Here's Tobi in the fight against Konan: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120308124325/naruto/images/1/19/Tobi%27s_left_Sharingan.png
Here's a picture of Obito: http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb58378/naruto/images/1/11/Obito_Uchiha.jpg

Any similarities there? I can almost imagine they're the same person, although I hope they're not.

Torpoleon
22nd August 2012, 6:49 PM
Hmm...I really hope it's not Obito.
Here's Tobi in the fight against Konan: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120308124325/naruto/images/1/19/Tobi%27s_left_Sharingan.png
Here's a picture of Obito: http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb58378/naruto/images/1/11/Obito_Uchiha.jpg

Any similarities there? I can almost imagine they're the same person, although I hope they're not.Though from Chapter 597's color page, we saw Tobi's right arm was white skin. Not sure if I can post a link to it here, but you do clearly see him with a white arm. Either the animé made a mistake with Tobi in the battle with Konan......or Tobi was out in the sun a lot prior to his battle with Konan.

Not saying I think Tobi is Obito, but there is the white arm thing.

Lorde
22nd August 2012, 6:54 PM
Hmm...I really hope it's not Obito.
Here's Tobi in the fight against Konan: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120308124325/naruto/images/1/19/Tobi%27s_left_Sharingan.png
Here's a picture of Obito: http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb58378/naruto/images/1/11/Obito_Uchiha.jpg

Any similarities there? I can almost imagine they're the same person, although I hope they're not.

There are a lot of similarities as people have noted in the past. But I think his personality - particularly his funny one - is more interesting and telling. Why did he feel the need to act like an idiot all that time? Couldn't he have acted normal? And why did Zetsu go along with the whole convoluted facade?


Though from Chapter 597's color page, we saw Tobi's right arm was white skin. Not sure if I can post a link to it here, but you do clearly see him with a white arm. Either the animé made a mistake with Tobi in the battle with Konan......or Tobi was out in the sun a lot prior to his battle with Konan.

Not saying I think Tobi is Obito, but there is the white arm thing.

He has Zetsu's/Hashirama's cells integrated into his body, as we've seen several times now. Mystery solved.

Ver-mont
22nd August 2012, 7:17 PM
Hmm...I really hope it's not Obito.
Here's Tobi in the fight against Konan: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120308124325/naruto/images/1/19/Tobi%27s_left_Sharingan.png
Here's a picture of Obito: http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb58378/naruto/images/1/11/Obito_Uchiha.jpg

Any similarities there? I can almost imagine they're the same person, although I hope they're not.

They look similar to me, even the eye shape.

Izanagi
22nd August 2012, 7:34 PM
Kishimoto is such a tease.

Joltik-Kid
22nd August 2012, 7:38 PM
If he made all these allusions to the fact that Obito is Tobi and it doesn't turn out that way... he'll go down in manga history as probably the biggest troll EVAH!!!! XD

uber gon
22nd August 2012, 8:24 PM
Anyone notice that Naruto's fight seems more interesting than Sasuke's fight with Kabuto?

Lorde
22nd August 2012, 8:28 PM
I really don't think Kishi will troll anyone. It's just not his style. But I'm sure people will still call him predictable even if Tobi is Izuna or Shisui or whoever. This fanbase is never satisfied.


Anyone notice that Naruto's fight seems more interesting than Sasuke's fight with Kabuto?

I'm not sure I agree. I mean this fight is certainly good in its own way, but I liked the other fight more because of how in-sync the Uchiha brothers were. I'm sure my mind will change when Tobi's identity and backstory are revealed, though.

7 tyranitars
22nd August 2012, 8:31 PM
So the chapter was more fighting. But I loved it for many reasons. Kakashi also thinks that Tobi is Obito, as does Guy apparently, and from the way Tobi spoke about Kamui, it's beginning to get harder and harder to ignore the theory that he really is Obito. Aside from those blatant hints, I enjoyed watching Naruto attack Tobi. There was something satisfying about that, plus the mask broke. And by the way, I think some of you are trying too hard to make Kishi seem like a troll.

I am still clinging to that one bit of hope! :D

TsukiMirage
22nd August 2012, 8:47 PM
Glad to see the battle heating back up, and Tobi showing off new offensive moves in battle. Also great to see the Hachibi lending a hand again and Naruto manifesting the Kyuubi's head as a shield. Best part was finally seeing Tobi's MS, which as expected, was the same as Kakashi's MS and the groups final combo to land a blow on Tobi. Looks like we'll be seeing his unmasked face next chapter, barring Kishi skipping away to another scene. Very good chapter.


Anyone notice that Naruto's fight seems more interesting than Sasuke's fight with Kabuto? Probably because this is Naruto's major fight, while Kabuto was just a regular fight. It's like how Naruto wasn't all that impressive against Ee or Nagato, or even against Tobi in the beginning.

vodor
22nd August 2012, 9:47 PM
One more chapter to finally see Tobi's face!

Shadow Lucario
22nd August 2012, 11:00 PM
Though from Chapter 597's color page, we saw Tobi's right arm was white skin. Not sure if I can post a link to it here, but you do clearly see him with a white arm. Either the animé made a mistake with Tobi in the battle with Konan......or Tobi was out in the sun a lot prior to his battle with Konan.

Not saying I think Tobi is Obito, but there is the white arm thing.

Don't you remember he's lost that arm multiple times now? I'm sure having to replace it will create some inconsistencies with the rest of his skin color. :P

iFi Salamander
22nd August 2012, 11:32 PM
I already decided if Tobi ends up being Obito I am just going to quit reading this manga altogether, because the writing would just be that terrible.


One more chapter to finally see Tobi's face!

Naw, he will switch over to whatever happened with Madara, or Sasuke and Oro.

Shadow Lucario
22nd August 2012, 11:37 PM
I already decided if Tobi ends up being Obito I am just going to quit reading this manga altogether, because the writing would just be that terrible.

I don't see how Tobi being Obito = bad writing. That makes absolutely no sense.

7 tyranitars
22nd August 2012, 11:42 PM
I don't see how Tobi being Obito = bad writing. That makes absolutely no sense.

With what we know now it doesn't necaserly have to be bad writing. It does depend on how it is explained.

Lorde
23rd August 2012, 12:41 AM
With what we know now it doesn't necaserly have to be bad writing. It does depend on how it is explained.

Exactly. I do wonder what the other side of Tobi's face looks like, though. Most of it has been hidden all this time, so it should be special. However, from what we saw that time he had his mask off before he went to rescue Sasuke, the left side of his face looks pretty normal. I mean it was just a small portion of the left side of his face, but still.

arceus7
23rd August 2012, 1:06 AM
Cough no that title belongs to Mashima Hiiro or Kubo Tite whichever floats your boat

Crimsonlink
23rd August 2012, 1:25 AM
Cough no that title belongs to Mashima Hiiro or Kubo Tite whichever floats your boat

lol Hiro is the troll of Weekly Shonen Jump while Kubo is the troll of Shonen Jump. Anyways good chapter this week. I really liked the action though some of the panels were confusing to read.

iFi Salamander
23rd August 2012, 1:55 AM
I don't see how Tobi being Obito = bad writing. That makes absolutely no sense.

1. Predictable. I'm tired of reading of shonen crap that I can see coming hundreds of episodes before. If there are no plot twists I could probably find a better written form by a fan.

2. It makes physically no sense. We saw Tobi recruiting Kisame back when should have still been a child. That also means he couldn't have been around when Nagato was a child to give him the Rinnegan assuming he wasn't lying.

3. If Tobi actually ends up being Obito it not only will seem out of character for Obito but will be Kishimoto's pathetic attempt to fabricate a conclusion for a character he obviously had no idea what he wanted to do with.

4. Kishimoto has already demonstrated tons of writing flaws, and deus ex machina occurrences for characters that shouldn't have had them. Naruto has absolute zero substance anymore. Essentially no plot, and all fan-service just like Bleach. As a 20 year old male this kind of crap just doesn't appeal to me anymore. This is the fourth ninja world war, and I haven't seen a single casualty besides random characters that barely mattered like Samui. Kishi refuses to kill off any character that actually had more than twenty minutes of screen time. The entire war has been Naruto just coming in an destroying everything single handed.

The fact is Naruto has been spiraling downwards in quality since the ridiculous Rinne Rebirth jutsu in which he brought tons of characters back to life. It was bad enough when Gaara did, but this was just...

And don't even get me started on the crap with Edo Madara and his ridiculous hax. Kishi basically wanted to make him an indestructible god will only fall by some stupid plot armor or a typical shonen "I can't give up speech."

5. Last but not least I am kind of ticked how he went out with Itachi. Itachi's death and final gesture before he was revived made a great symbolic conclusion. Instead he had to go an ruin it by giving Itachi more screen time and a plot device effect of Sharingan for fanservice. It ruined Itachi's nearly perfect character model for me.

The reality is Kishimoto is just writing this story like all it's fans are a bunch of brain-dead testosterone strung teenage boys, when in reality anyone who has been a fan of the series since it's debut are probably in their 20s by now. It is pretty bad when I figure out everything before Kakashi, one of his well known analyst characters.

lolipiece
23rd August 2012, 2:42 AM
Next week, Tobi reveals that underneath his mask is....

Another mask!


lol Hiro is the troll of Shounen Sunday while Kubo is the troll of Shounen Jump. Anyways good chapter this week. I really liked the action though some of the panels were confusing to read.

Fairy Tail? That runs in Weekly Shonen Magazine, not Sunday.

Crimsonlink
23rd August 2012, 2:47 AM
Next week, Tobi reveals that underneath his mask is....

Another mask!



Fairy Tail? That runs in Weekly Shonen Magazine, not Sunday.

lol That would be a huge troll.

Opps I mistakenly mixed it up because I was excited for Kenichi this week. I'll go edit it.

dewey911p
23rd August 2012, 3:11 AM
- rant -

If you think Nartuo is full of fanservice you are simply reading it wrong, or need to expose yourself to other manga/anime. If you want to see disgusting fan service taken to a ridiculous extreme to the point that it becomes a plot element, watch Seikon no Qwazar. Now THAT is disgusting (but the fighting is so damn cool i actually watched both seasons ~.~). As far as fan service in Naruto goes, maybe I'm just oblivious to it, but I don't notice it much at all.

Honestly I love this series and I think it is pretty good. Not perfect, but then again, who am I to judge perfection? This is Kishimoto's story and I am just enjoying the ride. I will reserve judgment for the end, but it is looking good so far ^^

JJDalts
23rd August 2012, 3:13 AM
Next week, Tobi reveals that underneath his mask is....

Another mask!

My friend at work today called that exact thing!

It would be the greatest troll ever done, and an amazing call-back all in one xD

Lorde
23rd August 2012, 3:41 AM
I'm not sure if Tobi's identity will be revealed in the next chapter or not. I think Kishi might just draw a ton of panels where bits of Tobi's mask fall off slowly, with the last page featuring a cliffhanger with Kakashi saying "You're...!" But on a serious note, I'm glad that this manga is still getting powerful reactions.

Shneak
23rd August 2012, 4:16 AM
- 'Into Pieces.' Title that's straight to the point.
- It is.
- Wtf? Tobi shooting those stars out of his eye.
- Why is Bee even here?
- Again, why?
- Don't Tailed Beast Bombs erupt? Not very safe, Naruto.
- WHAT. The bomb is hollow!
- But seriously, this plan was obvious, Tobi.
- Oh great, not we'll never know who Tobi is after Naruto obliterated his head.

I wonder if we're going to have to wait for the milestone 600 to get the identity. Anyway, it's clearly Obito. Kishi has meticulously hinted at it without outright using any names or visual references. He's waiting for the reveal so he can finally say it, even if it's obvious.

lolipiece
23rd August 2012, 5:52 AM
If you think Nartuo is full of fanservice you are simply reading it wrong, or need to expose yourself to other manga/anime. If you want to see disgusting fan service taken to a ridiculous extreme to the point that it becomes a plot element, watch Seikon no Qwazar. Now THAT is disgusting (but the fighting is so damn cool i actually watched both seasons ~.~). As far as fan service in Naruto goes, maybe I'm just oblivious to it, but I don't notice it much at all.

Honestly I love this series and I think it is pretty good. Not perfect, but then again, who am I to judge perfection? This is Kishimoto's story and I am just enjoying the ride. I will reserve judgment for the end, but it is looking good so far ^^

Here's an idea: learn what the word fanservice means.

dewey911p
23rd August 2012, 6:44 AM
Here's an idea: learn what the word fanservice means.

Perhaps my post was ambiguous as you seem to have taken it wrong. Regardless, my point stands; I don't feel like Naruto is inundated with copious amounts of fan service, but that's just me.

Shadow Lucario
23rd August 2012, 12:11 PM
As The 4th Kira stated earlier, this fan base is just never satisfied. People will call the manga predictable even if Tobi was Izuna/Kagami/Rin/Ramen guy/Sasuke from the future. It's understandable how any named characters haven't died since the enemy are all Zetsu and ninja whose abilities they know to a T. "But it's war! They need casualties!" There's a reason why this is fiction. Just because no one dies doesn't make it bad writing. I enjoy Naruto very much and it's one of my favorite manga. Sure it's not the best, but every manga has its flaws.

laddyda
23rd August 2012, 2:56 PM
i really hope tobi isnt obito, but did anyone else notice (its not a hard thing to notice) but it if you add an extra o on tobi and rearrange it spells obito....

DucksGoMooful
23rd August 2012, 3:14 PM
One more chapter to finally see Tobi's face!

Nah, it'll be like 3 more chapters before that happens.


Exactly. I do wonder what the other side of Tobi's face looks like, though. Most of it has been hidden all this time, so it should be special. However, from what we saw that time he had his mask off before he went to rescue Sasuke, the left side of his face looks pretty normal. I mean it was just a small portion of the left side of his face, but still.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3OrUlnbF84


As The 4th Kira stated earlier, this fan base is just never satisfied. People will call the manga predictable even if Tobi was Izuna/Kagami/Rin/Ramen guy/Sasuke from the future. It's understandable how any named characters haven't died since the enemy are all Zetsu and ninja whose abilities they know to a T. "But it's war! They need casualties!" There's a reason why this is fiction. Just because no one dies doesn't make it bad writing. I enjoy Naruto very much and it's one of my favorite manga. Sure it's not the best, but every manga has its flaws.

But aren't the enemies actually re-animated ninjas, who are fully aware of their abilities and are forced to use them mercilessly? I get that after Edo Tensei ends they would just be the Zetsus, but still. Before that, there should have been some deaths.

SharpedoX
23rd August 2012, 4:47 PM
Zetsu is undoubtedly a huge part in whoever is hiding behind that mask.

Remember how Tobi promised Kabuto one Zetsu if he caught Kurama? Most seem to forget this simple detail.

Lorde
23rd August 2012, 7:28 PM
Remember how Tobi promised Kabuto one Zetsu if he caught Kurama? Most seem to forget this simple detail.

I never understood that deal, nor do I believe that it's important in terms of Tobi's identity. It's kind of like how Kabuto said he would capture Naruto/Killer Bee; it was all just talk.

Platinum fan.
23rd August 2012, 8:54 PM
So Tobi's mask has been torn into pieces it seems, oh that was the name of the chapter right? So clever. But does this mean we're going to find out who Tobi is next chapter if it doesn't shift? I'm excited for sure about this. But I'm surprised Tobi's being dealt with before Sasuke.

TsukiMirage
23rd August 2012, 9:47 PM
I never understood that deal, nor do I believe that it's important in terms of Tobi's identity. It's kind of like how Kabuto said he would capture Naruto/Killer Bee; it was all just talk. The Zetsu's are made of Hashirama's cells, one of the pieces required to gain the Rinnegan and thus basically become a god of ninjutsu. Kabuto had already made a deal to get an living Uchiha, Sasuke, earlier.

DucksGoMooful
23rd August 2012, 9:48 PM
I'm guessing that either at the beginning or the very end of the chapter they're reveal who it is, but for the rest of the chapter they'll cut away to somewhere else, then go back and explain 2 chapters later.

Shneak
24th August 2012, 4:32 AM
So if anyone saw today's anime episode, can they tell me if it actually happened in the manga? I remember Tobi and Shikamaru talking, but it was different. I think they were mostly new scenes (involving the battlefields) and I couldn't be happier. Tenten saying "I'm dying." after she killed the last Heart and wanting her fan back and Black Zetsu kicking butt with frenzy plant was great.

Lorde
24th August 2012, 6:46 AM
- Why is Bee even here?
- Again, why?

I asked myself the same question as I was re-reading the chapter. I appreciate the fact that Killer Bee helped train Naruto and stuff, but he and the Hachibi are completely redundant at this point. And in my opinion, so is Guy. He's funny sometimes, but right now I'm way more interested in Tobi, Naruto and Kakashi.

Joltik-Kid
24th August 2012, 8:20 PM
I asked myself the same question as I was re-reading the chapter. I appreciate the fact that Killer Bee helped train Naruto and stuff, but he and the Hachibi are completely redundant at this point. And in my opinion, so is Guy. He's funny sometimes, but right now I'm way more interested in Tobi, Naruto and Kakashi.
Bee's there because of the promise he made to Iruka about keeping Naruto safe. As for Guy, well, him and Kakashi go everywhere lately

Shneak
25th August 2012, 4:17 AM
I asked that kind of sarcastically because Bee/Hachibi is redundant. He hasn't done anything to advance the fight, he's only got damaged, wounded and in need of saving. At least Guy has put Tobi under pressure.

TsukiMirage
25th August 2012, 8:12 AM
Just like with Sasuke against Kabuto previously, Kishi really doesn't seem to know what he wants Kirabi to do in this battle.

vodor
25th August 2012, 6:03 PM
I wonder if we get to our long waited Naruto vs Sasuke showdown!

Lorde
25th August 2012, 7:55 PM
At least Guy has put Tobi under pressure.

How so? All he can really do is use taijutsu, but since Tobi is intangible, it's practically useless. In my opinion, Naruto and Kakashi should get all the credit here.

lolipiece
25th August 2012, 8:34 PM
How so? All he can really do is use taijutsu, but since Tobi is intangible, it's practically useless. In my opinion, Naruto and Kakashi should get all the credit here.

You are aware that Guy can use Ninjutsu?

Shadow Lucario
25th August 2012, 11:02 PM
You are aware that Guy can use Ninjutsu?

This.

He chooses to use only Taijutsu because of Lee. That and he doesn't really need to use anything else.

TsukiMirage
25th August 2012, 11:23 PM
Even aside from that, I would say that Gai's performance against Tobi has been pretty impressive. He's had more of an effect then Naruto was having.

Lorde
25th August 2012, 11:40 PM
You are aware that Guy can use Ninjutsu?

Yes. But my point is that he prefers taijutsu, which is useless against an enemy who can become intangible. So far it seems that only ninjutsu (or more specifically, space-time techniques) are effective against Tobi. Minato and Kakashi both managed to injure Tobi using those techniques, and Konan was able to hurt him as well because she knew about Kamui's time limit.

Charminions
25th August 2012, 11:56 PM
Yes. But my point is that he prefers taijutsu, which is useless against an enemy who can become intangible. So far it seems that only ninjutsu (or more specifically, space-time techniques) are effective against Tobi. Minato and Kakashi both managed to injure Tobi using those techniques, and Konan was able to hurt him as well because she knew about Kamui's time limit.

I thought Guy's purpose was to force Tobi to phase away so that Naruto can follow up while he's solid.

Shneak
26th August 2012, 3:58 AM
It is. Guy isn't meant to actually physically hit Tobi, but to distract him into intangibility. He's done a good job.

Banana Knight Arthur
26th August 2012, 5:44 AM
So...........Tobi IS Obito/the dude whose other eye is in Kakashi's eye socket?

Heartlessangel17
26th August 2012, 8:12 AM
No troll switch...please T-T

On the subject of Tobi's identity, someone earlier mentioned Rin...I find it a very interesting possibility. I mean, she was a medical nin, has the knowledge of implanting sharingan, and her fate was never revealed, it was only insinuated she died.

However, the problem with that theory is...Tobi is a dude...We've seen half his face, his body structure, and his voice, it's all male. So unless Rin changed gener, or is using some unknown jutsu...it's so not Rin. Interesting theory though, and, in my opinion, a better plot twist then Tobi being Obito.

Crimsonlink
26th August 2012, 8:35 AM
No troll switch...please T-T

On the subject of Tobi's identity, someone earlier mentioned Rin...I find it a very interesting possibility. I mean, she was a medical nin, has the knowledge of implanting sharingan, and her fate was never revealed, it was only insinuated she died.

However, the problem with that theory is...Tobi is a dude...We've seen half his face, his body structure, and his voice, it's all male. So unless Rin changed gener, or is using some unknown jutsu...it's so not Rin. Interesting theory though, and, in my opinion, a better plot twist then Tobi being Obito.

Rin is a kunoichi, forget her being anything other than a past memory for Kishi.

Lorde
26th August 2012, 8:49 AM
Interesting theory though, and, in my opinion, a better plot twist then Tobi being Obito.

If Tobi is Obito (which I'm confident is the case), it wouldn't really be a plot twist since most people have considered the theory. The only way Kishi could pull a real plot twist is if Tobi ended up being some random character we've seen in the past but have never taken time to consider like Tenten.

TsukiMirage
26th August 2012, 9:48 AM
So...........Tobi IS Obito/the dude whose other eye is in Kakashi's eye socket? It's being heavily implied but no actual confirmation. There's still plenty of room for it to turn out to be someone other then Obito, and logically it should.

Shadow Lucario
26th August 2012, 11:47 AM
No troll switch...please T-T

On the subject of Tobi's identity, someone earlier mentioned Rin...I find it a very interesting possibility. I mean, she was a medical nin, has the knowledge of implanting sharingan, and her fate was never revealed, it was only insinuated she died.

However, the problem with that theory is...Tobi is a dude...We've seen half his face, his body structure, and his voice, it's all male. So unless Rin changed gener, or is using some unknown jutsu...it's so not Rin. Interesting theory though, and, in my opinion, a better plot twist then Tobi being Obito.

Kakashi confirmed her as dead when he died. He said he couldn't protect Rin when apologizing to Obito.

Lorde
26th August 2012, 8:00 PM
Kakashi confirmed her as dead when he died. He said he couldn't protect Rin when apologizing to Obito.

He also confirmed Obito as dead, yet most people believe he's Tobi. I personally don't like the Rin theory, but it's possible that she didn't really die.

-Raiga-
26th August 2012, 10:56 PM
I'd say bee is there simply to put over how much stronger naruto then became, same with the hachibi compared to the kyuubi.

Lorde
29th August 2012, 12:38 AM
I just visited Naruto forums hoping to see if any spoilers had been posted, but it's obviously too early for that. Still, I laughed out loud at some of the threads there. The people who are against the Tobi is Obito theory are already doing damage control ahead of this week's chapter; first they said that there was no way Tobi had anything to do with Obito, then they said that Tobi only had Obito's eye, and now they're saying that even if Tobi has Obito's body, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's Obito. They're trying to cover their tracks, but it's just getting silly. Soon they'll be saying that even though Tobi has Obito's memories, it isn't really him. I bet Kishi could confirm the theory, and people would still not believe it. :rolleyes:

Anyway, since it's possible that Tobi's identity will be revealed today/tomorrow, I'm going to stick with the notion that he is Obito.

DucksGoMooful
29th August 2012, 12:44 AM
I still say that it's not Obito, but I have no theory on who it actually is so I'll pretend it's Obito and be all "I knew it" when it is Obito (since that's the most likely theory).

Shneak
29th August 2012, 4:09 AM
I like that we all seem to have the same consensus here. It will make an alternate revelation (there won't be.) more shocking. I'm really excited for the chapter, even though I don't expect a full-blown reveal. At most, I think we'll see the full face as the last page leading into chapter 600.

Crimsonlink
29th August 2012, 4:40 AM
I disagree that it is Obito under the mask and would love to see how Kishi will explain away how he is now the (formerly) masked madman named Tobi.

Platinum fan.
29th August 2012, 5:21 AM
This Obito is Tobi business, hmph. I suppose next they expect me to believe that Haku's really a guy. Ha! I guess we're going to find out soon enough. But I wonder if they'll defeat Tobi in this fight or he escapes and lives to play a bigger role later on? I would suspect when Tobi goes down the war ends, or is at the verge of ending. Right? But as long as Tobi's not a future version of Sasuke I'm happy. Don't do it Kishimoto.

Lorde
29th August 2012, 7:00 AM
I disagree that it is Obito under the mask and would love to see how Kishi will explain away how he is now the (formerly) masked madman named Tobi.

Let's be honest though. No matter who Tobi really is, Kishi will have a lot of explaining to do. If Tobi is Obito, Izuna or Shisui, Kishi will have to explain how they came back to life and why they decided to turn evil. And if Tobi is Madara's/Zetsu's clone, future Sasuke or some other character, Kishi will have a hard time keeping things consistent.

Either way, Kishi is going to be very busy for the next few weeks.

TsukiMirage
29th August 2012, 7:04 AM
One of the many who seriously doubt it's gonna be Obito. But honestly, I'll be willing to admit I could possibility be mistaken if Tobi actually does turn out to be Obito, simply because this is Kishi we're talking about here and I will still call fail if there's not an excellent explanation to go along with the reveal.

Locormus
29th August 2012, 11:20 AM
I disagree that it is Obito under the mask and would love to see how Kishi will explain away how he is now the (formerly) masked madman named Tobi.


This Obito is Tobi business, hmph. I suppose next they expect me to believe that Haku's really a guy. Ha! I guess we're going to find out soon enough. But I wonder if they'll defeat Tobi in this fight or he escapes and lives to play a bigger role later on? I would suspect when Tobi goes down the war ends, or is at the verge of ending. Right? But as long as Tobi's not a future version of Sasuke I'm happy. Don't do it Kishimoto.

Oh boy.. How wrong... Because, he now is, in fact OBITO, asked whether he is Obito? :P Damn troll.. -.-


One of the many who seriously doubt it's gonna be Obito. But honestly, I'll be willing to admit I could possibility be mistaken if Tobi actually does turn out to be Obito, simply because this is Kishi we're talking about here and I will still call fail if there's not an excellent explanation to go along with the reveal.

Lol, well of course it's only gonna be told at the end, you've got to wait another week for the beginning of the explanation! :P

Oh god, the troll is even harder, we have a flashback from Kakashi and Gai, and at the end he basically asks whether Tobi is Obito or not.. WHAT THE FLUP WAS THE POINT OF BREAKING THE MASK THEN!!! :S

Shadow Lucario
29th August 2012, 2:08 PM
Wow. Just wow. Finally, the mask is gone. And...just read it for yourself. I've noticed some inconsistencies with this chapter and previous knowledge we have though.

lolipiece
29th August 2012, 2:13 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I knew it! Everybody knew it! All this buildup, wasted because everyone and their grandmother guessed it years ago!

I knew Kishimoto would've gone the obvious route.

Wow. This chapter felt short. Would've been nice to have some dialogue in those flashbacks.

Is it just me, or did Guy look stupider as a kid than Lee did? I mean, that's not much of an accomplishment, but come on...

waffle_x_v
29th August 2012, 2:20 PM
It is obito!!! kishi: trololololol

Ver-mont
29th August 2012, 2:29 PM
I loved the last page narration acting like the reveal was a big shock or surprise to anyone.

Now all we need is a bridge between the Obito we saw this chapter and his Tobi persona.

vodor
29th August 2012, 2:34 PM
You know,
Obito seem to had similar personality has Naruto !
Both of them were underdog and Both of them was in love with their teammate who had a major crush on their rival!
I wonder how he gone to the dark side ?
Is Rin's death has anything to do with it !

Ver-mont
29th August 2012, 2:39 PM
Obito seem to had similar personality has Naruto !
Both of them were underdog and Both of them was in love with their teammate who had a major crush on their rival!!

Exactly, I found that interesting. He's set up as some sort of evil counterpart to Naruto now, or a... "Naruto gone evil".

arceus03
29th August 2012, 2:44 PM
I wonder how he gone to the dark side ?
Is Rin's death has anything to do with it !

It's the cookies.
That could be the cause, but why would he pretend to be dead?

Gaiash
29th August 2012, 3:15 PM
Well Tobi and Obito are officially ruined as characters. Now they're a bitter guy motivated by revenge that hasn't moved on. Obito's once noble sacrifice has been tainted and Tobi is just another revenge driven villain who used to be friends with a main character.

DucksGoMooful
29th August 2012, 3:27 PM
You know,
Obito seem to had similar personality has Naruto !
Both of them were underdog and Both of them was in love with their teammate who had a major crush on their rival!
I wonder how he gone to the dark side ?
Is Rin's death has anything to do with it !

I really wanna know how he isn't dead. I can almost imagine why he turned evil. BUT WHY IS HE ALIVE?

Anyway, let's take a look at this now. When Obito's face was crushed the part that was crushed matches with this new Obito's face. Obviously he'd still have his right Sharingan, but where'd he get his left one? He turned evil just because he's upset (and maybe saw something in Naruto after a while that reminded him of himself?).

Gaiash
29th August 2012, 3:33 PM
I really wanna know how he isn't dead. I can almost imagine why he turned evil. BUT WHY IS HE ALIVE?
That part isn't so hard when you consider his ability. However unless Zetsu was involved why he didn't return to Konoha after getting out is the real mystery.

DucksGoMooful
29th August 2012, 3:35 PM
That part isn't so hard when you consider his ability. However unless Zetsu was involved why he didn't return to Konoha after getting out is the real mystery.

But what ability is that? He wouldn't have had the space-time jutsu back then (unless he was practising with Minato or something).

Platinum fan.
29th August 2012, 4:06 PM
Well sometimes the obvious suspect is the obvious choice and since many guessed it was Obito years ago looks like Kishi didn't bother to make in something else. How funny would it be if Obito is just a dead body like the Pains and being controlled by Rin? That little she devil is probably the reason he went bad XD but in all seriousness it was interesting to see how Kakashi, Obito, and Rin mirrored early Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura. Like Ver-mont and Vodor said it's like Obito is a path Naruto could have taken, because from the chapter it looks like Rin was a big part of his character, maybe not the main part, but she sure was a big part. There's still som questions that need to be answered but I'm sure they will. It sucks that Obito is corrupted. Until now I considered him the only honest Uchiha not going down a dark road, but I guess that is the fate of Uchiha's.

Yes! No future Sasuke! This made my day. :)

Lorde
29th August 2012, 4:11 PM
Let it be known that Tobi is Obito. Just as everyone who paid attention to the hints (which were numerous and obvious) predicted. I loved the flashback to his life at the start of the chapter; it made things more dramatic, and also very sad. It sucks that Obito's life changed and he became a villain for whatever reason.

Banana Knight Arthur
29th August 2012, 4:14 PM
How funny would it be if Obito is just a dead body like the Pains and being controlled by Rin? That little she devil is probably the reason he went bad)


Wouldn't surprise me one bit...........

DucksGoMooful
29th August 2012, 4:16 PM
Let it be known that Tobi is Obito. Just as everyone who paid attention to the hints (which were numerous and obvious) predicted. I loved the flashback to his life at the start of the chapter; it made things more dramatic, and also very sad. It sucks that Obito's life changed and he became a villain for whatever reason.

Yeah, I really liked this chapter, but it feels almost like it was a waste of a week, now we have to wait another week for the explanation. Also, they could've named it something else. I'm sure Obito's reasons were pure.

Are we going to keep referring to him as Tobi anymore, or are we just going to call him Obito from now on?

Banana Knight Arthur
29th August 2012, 4:22 PM
Showing/making Tobi OBito feels like a cheap way of powering him down.

Now that he's been humanized, he feels more like he'd be on Kakashi or Guy's level.

Basically a cheap way of making his inevitable defeat more plausible/believable....

Lorde
29th August 2012, 4:22 PM
Yeah, I really liked this chapter, but it feels almost like it was a waste of a week, now we have to wait another week for the explanation. Also, they could've named it something else. I'm sure Obito's reasons were pure.

Are we going to keep referring to him as Tobi anymore, or are we just going to call him Obito from now on?

At least this chapter made it clear that he's really Obito and not just that someone else is using his body. I won't mind 10 flashback chapters if it means that we get the whole story of his survival and motivation. And yes, I realize that Rin's death has something to do with why he turned "evil," but she can't be the only reason. It would be too anti-climactic.

And good question. Should we call him Tobi or Obito now? Personally, I'll wait a few more weeks before I call him by his birth name.

Platinum fan.
29th August 2012, 4:33 PM
There's still so much I want to know about this, like his Madara connection, how he got so powerful, Rin's death, argh to many questions. I'm looking forward to the next chapter. Oh Obito, what would Rin say about your evil? For all we know he could have killed her.

By the way, did anyone else when reading the chapter expect to see Rin at the end of the as Tobi? For some reason I actually did think Kishi was going to go that way, as illogical as it would have been.

Lorde
29th August 2012, 4:38 PM
For all we know he could have killed her.

Don't say that; it would make things more tragic than they already are. :(

And I'm laughing out loud at all the meltdowns that I've seen on Onemanga; it seems several people have ragequit and some others have issued death threats to Kishi. That's probably why NF is down at the moment; it's such a big community with so many egos. The most reasonable people are learning to accept the newest developments, but there are still some who are telling everyone to wait until the next chapter for more information, which is logical in itself, except that they still seem to think that Tobi isn't Obito.

Platinum fan.
29th August 2012, 4:44 PM
Don't say that; it would make things more tragic than they already are. :(

And I'm laughing out loud at all the meltdowns that I've seen on Onemanga; it seems several people have ragequit and some others have issued death threats to Kishi. That's probably why NF is down at the moment; it's such a big community with so many egos. The most reasonable people are learning to accept the newest developments, but there are still some who are telling everyone to wait until the next chapter for more information, which is logical in itself, except that they still seem to think that Tobi isn't Obito.

People are issuing death threats to Kishi? Oh my gosh it's just a manga. It was pretty much known that Obito is Tobi. Heck in the back of my mind I knew it was where they were going, I just threw out the Hayate's girlfriend and future Sasuke idea to joke around. Obito made more sense then that stupid Danzo theory that's for sure. That was the dumbest one yet.

As far as Rin goes, I really want to learn more about her and Obito. Because while they mirror team 7, Rin doesn't even look like she was half as swallow as Sakura was, if at all. Maybe they'll pull a Darth Vadar on us with Obito and his actions only makes the situations worse.

SharpedoX
29th August 2012, 5:11 PM
How funny would it be if Obito is just a dead body like the Pains and being controlled by Rin?

Just shared this with a friend and totally blew his mind off. And my own. That would be a pretty good twist (even if Rin wouldn't be the one controlling him) and would certainly prove Kishi has still some originality.

Lorde
29th August 2012, 5:14 PM
I just read the chapter a few more times to make sense of all the little things. So Obito arrived late at the ninja academy and was upset that he didn't get an application, but Rin got one for him. So in a way, he became a ninja thanks to her. This will probably be important later. Then the scene changed to the Chunin Exams and Obito arrived late because he was helping an old lady. Obito's team finally fights, but he gets clobbered by Guy when his Katon failed due to the candy he was eating. I couldn't help but laugh at how absurd that was. Then Rin healed his wounds and Obito talked about wanting to be Hokage, which impressed Rin. Obito trained, but lost to Guy again. He noticed that Rin admired Kakashi. Kakashi became a Chunin first, then Obito after he trained some more. Obito wanted to impress Rin with flowers, but she was too busy planning Kakashi's gifts to notice. Yeah, Obito got the short end of the stick and I don't blame him for turning out the way he did.

By the way, is there a chapter next week or is Kishi going on break?


Just shared this with a friend and totally blew his mind off. And my own. That would be a pretty good twist (even if Rin wouldn't be the one controlling him) and would certainly prove Kishi has still some originality.

That last part is sarcasm, right?

7 tyranitars
29th August 2012, 5:17 PM
Wow. A chapter in silence, but you still knew what was going on. except for the last page.. this is simply amazing. So much happened with so few words.

SkyDeity
29th August 2012, 6:02 PM
There's so much butthurt about Tobi being Obito that it's not even funny anymore.

Charminions
29th August 2012, 6:06 PM
>First panel and Chapter Title:

OH GOD IT'S SO OBVIOUS NOW! (Even though it's been obvious for a while.)

TsukiMirage
29th August 2012, 6:10 PM
4th Kira, I blame you for this horror...

But seriously, despite it not making any sense, Tobi being Obito has been confirmed. Aside from that random revelation, I really liked the all-picture chapter. Seeing the jounins and special jounins as children was great, especially Anko and Gai. Does bring up some questions about what we were told in the databooks, but at this point, it seems better to simply not focus on any sort of canonicity. Good chapter otherwise.

Ace Of Keys
29th August 2012, 6:29 PM
Showing/making Tobi OBito feels like a cheap way of powering him down.

Now that he's been humanized, he feels more like he'd be on Kakashi or Guy's level.

Basically a cheap way of making his inevitable defeat more plausible/believable....

idk about that. if you consider from the very beginning Tobi was Obito then you have to ask yourself how the hell did someone who couldn't beat guy managed to get enough power knowledge and insight to start an organization to capture tailed beasts, declare war on the ninja world and basically tricked some of the best ninja into overlooking the fact it was someone supposedly dead. after finding out who I'm very interesting in finding out WHY and How ;)

gorgonfish
29th August 2012, 6:32 PM
Did anyone catch the continuity error in this chapter? If you look at the beginning of the Kakashi Gaiden arc, it shows the first, second, and third Hokage faces on the mountain. This is during the 3rd Shinobi War just before Tobito (or whatever you want to call him) dies. In the chapter today, it shows Minato's face on the mountain before Tobito even becomes a Chunin, even though the Third Hokage is still wearing the robe and hat while Minato has his Chunin/Jounin vest.

As far as the Tobito reveal, I'd love it if Obito's body is the real mask Tobi is hiding behind. Maybe Tobi is some Zetsu/Obito's body hybrid, maybe he's someone else using the Orochimaru body transfer jutsu.

vodor
29th August 2012, 6:35 PM
You know ,
After seeing all those flashback of Obito's life , I actually feel sorry for that guy !
Not only he was underdog , His crush only had eye for his rival!
Kind a like Naruto!
Strange huh !
Obito seem more like a Counter-part of Naruto rather then Sasuke even though he was a Uchiha!
May be ,
Naruto can change his heart !

7 tyranitars
29th August 2012, 6:43 PM
I want to see Kakashi's reaction. He is going to be devasteted.

Joltik-Kid
29th August 2012, 7:14 PM
Well... this was inevitable given the more recent revelations

Shneak
29th August 2012, 7:16 PM
- The title is Obito Uchiha. Wow. Subtle.
- Is that Asuma beside Rin?
- Free for all in the Forest of Death > Reffed team matches in the Forest of Death
- I didn't know Ebisu and Genma were on the same team as Guy.
- Move, you're blocking Tsunade's future spot.
- I didn't really know a Obito/Guy rivalry existed. Guy being in the Tobi fight makes sense now.
- I can't breathe. Here it comes.
- HAHAHAHAHA. Yes.

I enjoyed this chapter. The flashback worked without any dialogue. I substituted the emotional music in my head. But I'll be angry if Obito did this all willingly just for Rin liking Kakashi more.

Joltik-Kid
29th August 2012, 7:36 PM
- I didn't really know a Obito/Guy rivalry existed. Guy being in the Tobi fight makes sense now.

Makes sense though, seeing that pretty early in the series Naruto sparked a rivalry with Lee (both Lee and Guy didn't consider Naruto/Obito as big threats)

Takeo
29th August 2012, 8:09 PM
no... i hate naruto so much... i always knew that tobi person was obito... but then all this crap came up and that theory was lost... and now the author decides to slap us all in the face by making that true... crap...

JJDalts
29th August 2012, 8:20 PM
I noticed something in the chapter.

When Hiruzen and Minato were watching the Chunnin exams, Hiruzen is wearing the Hokage robes/hat.
Yet when we see the Hokage Monument, Minato is on it, meaning he would be Hokage.....right?

Anyway, finally it's confirmed Tobi is Obito, and the major hole that sticks out for me is how was he around during the 2nd Ninja War?

Profesco
29th August 2012, 8:31 PM
Well Tobi and Obito are officially ruined as characters. Now they're a bitter guy motivated by revenge that hasn't moved on. Obito's once noble sacrifice has been tainted and Tobi is just another revenge driven villain who used to be friends with a main character.

That's what disappoints me, yeah. I couldn't care less who Tobi turned out to be - old character or new - so long as we still got an exciting story. I honestly did not think I would be disappointed by the identity reveal, regardless of who it was or how it happened, while all the rumors and complaints were flying around. Actually, I'm still not disappointed by who it is or how we found out, but rather the background we were given. Now not only is Obito set up to fall into the Gary Stu romance/status revenge archetype, but we also are taught that young Obito was basically yet another Naruto character clone (a character type/story we've seen plenty of). Well, the latter is as plain as day, but the former may be premature. Perhaps Obito's childhood struggles with rejection and inferiority will turn out to be irrelevant to his transformation into Tobi. I certainly hope so.


how he got so powerful

I'm curious about that, too. We now know Tobi is Kakashi's age, which makes him young enough to be a student of the 4th Hokage. Somehow, in between his childhood "death" at that bridge and the night Naruto was born, he became strong enough to stand toe to toe with the 4th in his prime. There ought to be a fun explanation behind that one.

Edit: I'm also more curious now about just what Obito's connection to Madara is and all the other assorted questions and quirks that come with that relationship.


In the chapter today, it shows Minato's face on the mountain before Tobito even becomes a Chunin, even though the Third Hokage is still wearing the robe and hat while Minato has his Chunin/Jounin vest.

That was confusing. Maybe that first part of the chapter occured right before (or during) the proceedings to hand the Hokage title over to Minato, and the other part of the chapter occured after it (and after the sculpture was completed)? *shrug*

PokeMaster366
29th August 2012, 8:39 PM
So it turns out that Obito is Tobi.
...
I can already imagine a lot of people becoming butt-hurt over this. Kishi better have a pretty convincing, yet unique reason for all of this, or Naruto may lose its place as one of the Big 3.

Lorde
29th August 2012, 9:08 PM
Well... this was inevitable given the more recent revelations

Yet many people still doubted it. I'm one of the few members who constantly tried to make an argument for the theory, even when Tobi was still using Madara as his alias.

7 tyranitars
29th August 2012, 9:18 PM
I noticed something in the chapter.

When Hiruzen and Minato were watching the Chunnin exams, Hiruzen is wearing the Hokage robes/hat.
Yet when we see the Hokage Monument, Minato is on it, meaning he would be Hokage.....right?

Anyway, finally it's confirmed Tobi is Obito, and the major hole that sticks out for me is how was he around during the 2nd Ninja War?

I have heard they where both Hokage. one active one inactive.


So it turns out that Obito is Tobi.
...
I can already imagine a lot of people becoming butt-hurt over this. Kishi better have a pretty convincing, yet unique reason for all of this, or Naruto may lose its place as one of the Big 3.

I don't see that happen, there are quite a few people who believe the theory, I didn't but I can accept it. Some might be butthurt but they aren't going to lose a major part of their fanbase. Also since Bleach is in the big 3 somehow I can't see how Naruto will fall out of it.


Yet many people still doubted it. I'm one of the few members who constantly tried to make an argument for the theory, even when Tobi was still using Madara as his alias.

Because let's be fair there are still things that needs to be cleared up. Only recently it became plausible that Tobi would be Obito.

Lorde
29th August 2012, 9:31 PM
Because let's be fair there are still things that needs to be cleared up. Only recently it became plausible that Tobi would be Obito.

The things that people began to notice recently, like the fact that Tobi's space-time ninjutsu worked like Kakashi's Kamui were pointed out years ago by dedicated fans of the theory. That was the biggest hint at Tobi's true identity since it at least meant that Tobi was somehow related to Obito, but most people argued against it. They didn't even bother keeping an open mind until the last minute when they changed their stance. And like I said yesterday, a lot of anti-Obito theorists on Naruto forums were doing damage control before the chapter was released to avoid looking bad. They had a feeling that Obito's body was going to be revealed, and they ran like cowards to cover their tracks. It's disgraceful.

By the way, Tobi and Obito were trending on Twitter today. Behold the power of Kishimoto's masterpiece.

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h328/shootitsutarja/dBct6.png

vodor
29th August 2012, 9:42 PM
Todays the day that will be remembered by countless Naruto fan!
Because This is day we finally knew Tobi's true identity !

lolipiece
29th August 2012, 9:51 PM
Todays the day that will be remembered by countless Naruto fan!
Because This is day we finally knew Tobi's true identity !

Remembered for what? Learning something everybody guessed years ago?

dewey911p
29th August 2012, 10:09 PM
How disappointing. Whatever, maybe there will be a good explanation for this though. It still doesn't feel right though, foreshadowing is one thing, but giving the answer without directly saying it seems too blunt. I kinda expect another plot twist, something like "You're Obito" then "Well, not quite ..." *cut away to Kage battle* or Obito is just another path of Pain, like the Jinchuuriki were. Perhaps It is someone else wearing Obito's face like Orochimaru does? Honestly it could be any number of things. He has a weird spiral shaped scare on his face (Mask was to tight maybe?), Tobi was shown to have a collection of Sharingan, one of which could easily belong to Obito, and, oh yeah, Obtio was crushed to death. Sure he could have just transferred his body to another dimension using his Sharingan, but, oh wait, he didn't have a developed enough Sharingan to do that at that point. Aside from the absurd power growth mentioned above, I would also like to know why Obito gave Kakashi an eye when Obito planned to run away and conquer the world? Surely he should have seen that that might come back to bite him in the *** one day.

Most importantly, what in the world was that mask made of? Naruto has used the Rasengan to take out countless foes, but Tobi takes one to the face and his mask cracks but not his skull? Impressive.

Shadow Lucario
29th August 2012, 10:28 PM
His power increase isn't that surprising. Look at Sasuke's growth between the first series and Shippuden. With a Sharingan it won't be that hard. What I want to know is why he agreed to help Itachi kill the Uchiha clan. In the flashback it was obvious he had pride in his clan. I've also noticed some inconsistencies between this flashback and other information. Kakashi graduated the academy at five and became a Chunin at six. They don't appear to be those ages in the flashback unless Kakashi is going through those things again for the lulz.

multi-scale
29th August 2012, 10:36 PM
I'm calling BS on this because it makes no sense that Obito could be the same height as Minato only a few years after his death. Kakashi wasn't that tall and neither was Gai or anyone else.

Edit: I've always been anti-Obito/Tobi, mostly because of the gaping plotholes in the timeline. I suppose there's some BS about him using Time ninjutsus to age himself to full strength, etc, etc. After it was nearly confirmed a week or two ago, I figured the one they are currently fighting is Obito but the real Tobi is pulling the strings from afar. I still don't want to believe Obito is THE Tobi. His speaking style makes a noticable change and he seems less sophisticated and mysterious. NOw he's almost childlike with his speaking. Also, when is Naruto supposed to fight Sasuke? Or is that just not happening?

Shadow Lucario
29th August 2012, 10:39 PM
I'm calling BS on this because it makes no sense that Obito could be the same height as Minato only a few years after his death. Kakashi wasn't that tall and neither was Gai or anyone else.

lolz. Your argument against Obito being Tobi is based on height. It's funny because it actually is possible, especially since around that time most boys go through a growth spurt.

7 tyranitars
29th August 2012, 10:42 PM
The things that people began to notice recently, like the fact that Tobi's space-time ninjutsu worked like Kakashi's Kamui were pointed out years ago by dedicated fans of the theory. That was the biggest hint at Tobi's true identity since it at least meant that Tobi was somehow related to Obito, but most people argued against it. They didn't even bother keeping an open mind until the last minute when they changed their stance. And like I said yesterday, a lot of anti-Obito theorists on Naruto forums were doing damage control before the chapter was released to avoid looking bad. They had a feeling that Obito's body was going to be revealed, and they ran like cowards to cover their tracks. It's disgraceful.

By the way, Tobi and Obito were trending on Twitter today. Behold the power of Kishimoto's masterpiece.

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h328/shootitsutarja/dBct6.png

That is simply badass.


How disappointing. Whatever, maybe there will be a good explanation for this though. It still doesn't feel right though, foreshadowing is one thing, but giving the answer without directly saying it seems too blunt. I kinda expect another plot twist, something like "You're Obito" then "Well, not quite ..." *cut away to Kage battle* or Obito is just another path of Pain, like the Jinchuuriki were. Perhaps It is someone else wearing Obito's face like Orochimaru does? Honestly it could be any number of things. He has a weird spiral shaped scare on his face (Mask was to tight maybe?), Tobi was shown to have a collection of Sharingan, one of which could easily belong to Obito, and, oh yeah, Obtio was crushed to death. Sure he could have just transferred his body to another dimension using his Sharingan, but, oh wait, he didn't have a developed enough Sharingan to do that at that point. Aside from the absurd power growth mentioned above, I would also like to know why Obito gave Kakashi an eye when Obito planned to run away and conquer the world? Surely he should have seen that that might come back to bite him in the *** one day.

Most importantly, what in the world was that mask made of? Naruto has used the Rasengan to take out countless foes, but Tobi takes one to the face and his mask cracks but not his skull? Impressive.

Well his head survived a boulder to the face, so why not a rasengan?


I'm calling BS on this because it makes no sense that Obito could be the same height as Minato only a few years after his death. Kakashi wasn't that tall and neither was Gai or anyone else.

Well, I expect a chapter explaining all this next week.

multi-scale
29th August 2012, 10:45 PM
lolz. Your argument against Obito being Tobi is based on height. It's funny because it actually is possible, especially since around that time most boys go through a growth spurt.

T_T I just don't want it to be true. Also, it seems like one hell of a growth spurt. Steroids anyone?
It seems like he grew about 25 cm in a couple years, which is somewhere around 10 inches, so it's definitely plausible. I just really hope Kubo didn't take the easy way out by confirming a theory that's been around for a very long time. I suppose I'll have to accept it, although I do still think there are noticeable changes in things like his dialogue. He seems a bit to simple to be Tobi.

Lorde
29th August 2012, 10:49 PM
Imo, Tobi is Obito until proven otherwise. I highly doubt that Kishi would draw all those pages about Obito's life just to reveal in the next chapter that it's not really Obito who's in control of that body. I think some of you are trying too hard to make Kishi look bad. He's definitely an inconsistent writer, but he isn't trolling anyone.

Btw, did anyone else spot the Hokage monument error? There were four heads carved into the mountain even though Minato wasn't the Hokage yet.

gorgonfish
29th August 2012, 11:10 PM
Btw, did anyone else spot the Hokage monument error? There were four heads carved into the mountain even though Minato wasn't the Hokage yet.
Yeah, I made a comment about it on the last page. This and the Kakashi age error just feel weird.

Platinum fan.
29th August 2012, 11:14 PM
Imo, Tobi is Obito until proven otherwise. I highly doubt that Kishi would draw all those pages about Obito's life just to reveal in the next chapter that it's not really Obito who's in control of that body. I think some of you are trying too hard to make Kishi look bad. He's definitely an inconsistent writer, but he isn't trolling anyone.

Btw, did anyone else spot the Hokage monument error? There were four heads carved into the mountain even though Minato wasn't the Hokage yet.

I think Kishi was counting on the Tobi is Obito thing to make all fans ignore any error that isn't Tobi/Obito related. If nothing else at least Tobi was in character before calling himself Madara. Obito was kind of a goofy kid and Tobi was goofy during his time with Deidara. I wonder if Kakashi or Rin ever tried to choke Obito with their legs XD

Anyway I'm perfectly fine with Obito being Tobi, I look forward to what he has to say on the matter of his...self. At least Tobi's not some random ninja we've never heard of. I was a little afraid they were going to make Tobi some random no name ninja Kakashi fought in the past that we never heard about and are expected to make a big deal about.

UnovaGirlSkyla
29th August 2012, 11:41 PM
I was more shocked about how Gai sensei looked at age 12/13. He looked like a 40/50 yr old midget.

Torpoleon
30th August 2012, 12:20 AM
Nice to know we actually got the face. I do hope for a serious explanation in the next few chapters (kind of like what happened 100 chapters ago, where at the end of 499, Kushina said she'd take about Naruto's childhood and that started in 500 and lasted a couple of chapters.

Speaking of Naruto's childhood, anyone think that the masked man who invaded the Leaf Village and controlled the Nine-Tails was actually Madara? It would make things more consistent with Obito. Also, the masked man with the older mask had longer hair (at least when he met Itachi), so it would make sense for Obito to be the one we've seen throughout Shippuden and for Madara to have been the one doing all the bad things prior to when the series started.

iFi Salamander
30th August 2012, 12:22 AM
I read this first thing when I woke up, and I died quite a bit inside. The plot holes are gaping.

Also lol@Minato's head being on the rock on page 7 behind Obito even though Minato wasn't even Hokage until after Obito's death.

TsukiMirage
30th August 2012, 12:25 AM
Yet many people still doubted it. I'm one of the few members who constantly tried to make an argument for the theory, even when Tobi was still using Madara as his alias. I don't know. From what I've seen, most of the people who were against have begun to accept it. Not happily and still waiting for what better be a life altering explanation, but accepted none the less. Only a small handful still seem to be completely against it in any way.


Btw, did anyone else spot the Hokage monument error? There were four heads carved into the mountain even though Minato wasn't the Hokage yet. There was more errors then just that. Gai did graduate til a year after Kakashi became a chuunin, Anko and Hayate are much younger then the others and should be toddlers, while Ebisu didn't become a ninja til after Kakashi became a jounin. All those in addition to the fact that Kakashi was already a ninja before Obito and Rin graduated.

Natsuri
30th August 2012, 1:04 AM
So disappointed that I don't know what to say... For long, I believed that Tobi just has stolen Obito's eye. To my mind it would have made more sense (besides making Kakashi enrage). Anyway, Kishi is the one who decides, and now I'm waiting for an explanation like everyone else.
All those errors in the flashback pissed me off even more.

pwnswitchclik
30th August 2012, 1:09 AM
Also lol@Minato's head being on the rock on page 7 behind Obito even though Minato wasn't even Hokage until after Obito's death.

It could be a mistake from one of Kishimoto's assistant's. Also, I believe Kishimoto said sometime ago in comiket 'Idontknowwhichnumber' that tobi is supposed to be izuna uchiha, dunno if he was trolling or he was just straight to the point (passing by throught the chapters to be written). I'm looking forward to see what he's gonna cook up.

iFi Salamander
30th August 2012, 1:21 AM
I really don't think he is going to find any decent way to pull this off. I think the best he can come up with is an acceptable reason of how Obito got so skilled in only a couple years. I sense time travel is involved.

Crimsonlink
30th August 2012, 2:21 AM
Well Tobi has been unmasked and it turns out to be a person that looks exactly like Obito. Whether it is or not depends on if Tobi admits it or we get undeniable proof in some form.

Now before you get on my case about how can it not be Obito, ZETSU CLONE.

Not to say it cannot be Obito as all signs point to it but I still have doubts.

We can all assume that Obito has gone madman for some reason, he definitely used Zetsu to heal the right side of his body to even move as seen with the wrinkles he has on his right side like Danzou had on his arm.

I'm curious as to how Kishi will explain this.

I liked the silent flashback and pretty amazed that Kishi even remembered how to draw a younger Kurenai lol.

BTW A message to the manga readers of this forum.

PLEASE HAVE THE DECENCY TO REMEMBER THE DIFFERENT AUTHOR AND NOT MIX THEM UP! Masashi Kishimoto is the author of Naruto while Tite Kubo is the author of Bleach and Eiichiro Oda is the author of One Piece. Huge pet peeve that people mix up the different authors.

Lorde
30th August 2012, 3:18 AM
Also, I believe Kishimoto said sometime ago in comiket 'Idontknowwhichnumber' that tobi is supposed to be izuna uchiha

Kishimoto never said that. If he had, we would've discussed it. :x


Well Tobi has been unmasked and it turns out to be a person that looks exactly like Obito. Whether it is or not depends on if Tobi admits it or we get undeniable proof in some form.

Now before you get on my case about how can it not be Obito, ZETSU CLONE.

Not to say it cannot be Obito as all signs point to it but I still have doubts.

We can all assume that Obito has gone madman for some reason, he definitely used Zetsu to heal the right side of his body to even move as seen with the wrinkles he has on his right side like Danzou had on his arm.

A person who looks just like Obito and has his memories. Yes, it's obvious that he's a Zetsu clone.

Crimsonlink
30th August 2012, 3:32 AM
Kishimoto never said that.



A person who looks just like Obito and has his memories. Yes, it's obvious that he's a Zetsu clone. :rolleyes:

Yes because it was confirmed that it was Tobi that was having the flashback. :rolleyes:

Look Kira, its nice that you pretty much predicted it along with many others years ago that the person under the mask looks like/is Obito. But until Kishi explains everything, I and others can have suspicions that its not really Obito in the sense that Obito didn't suddenly become obsessed with ruling the world with Genjutsu and fighting on par with Minato after being crushed under a boulder at age 14ish.

Not to mention the ridiculous amount of knowledge Tobi has on Juubi that only Rikudo Sennin and maybe the rivals Madara/Hashirama knows.

gorgonfish
30th August 2012, 3:41 AM
A person who looks just like Obito and has his memories. Yes, it's obvious that he's a Zetsu clone.
Then how is it possible for a boy who said "Those in the ninja world who break the rules and regulations are called filth, but those who don't care about their companions... are even lower than filth," and gave his left eye to his teammate when he could have just left Kakashi missing an eye suddenly become a criminal mastermind? If Tobi is just Obito, without any outside influence, why would he want to put the world under the Moon's Eye Plan? To get revenge because Kakashi didn't stop Rin from dying? Obito was one of the few 'good' Uchiha in the series and now we're just supposed to accept that he's the final boss? There better be text covering every panel of chapter 600 to explain all this...

Edit: Also agree with what Crimsonlink said.

⊱✿RedAshEntropy
30th August 2012, 4:03 AM
I really felt confused of the current/latest chapter. I mean, Tobi is Obito? his hair does resembles with him and of course his an Uchiha.., but then I wasn't really expected about that..on the other hand, maybe futher chapters cold explain it more..XD

Shneak
30th August 2012, 4:07 AM
You guys have to admit that this isn't the most obvious plot twist in the series. I mean, it got spelled out inching closer to this chapter, but at least there were some valid alternatives. We all knew Madara was in that coffin from the beginning.

That being said, I wonder how Kishi is going to explain this all. We already got a plothole with the Hokage Monument.

iFi Salamander
30th August 2012, 4:09 AM
You guys have to admit that this isn't the most obvious plot twist in the series. I mean, it got spelled out inching closer to this chapter, but at least there were some valid alternatives. We all knew Madara was in that coffin from the beginning.

That being said, I wonder how Kishi is going to explain this all. We already got a plothole with the Hokage Monument.

As well as tons of other timeline inconsistencies in retrospect to the databooks.

Lorde
30th August 2012, 4:13 AM
Then how is it possible for a boy who said "Those in the ninja world who break the rules and regulations are called filth, but those who don't care about their companions... are even lower than filth," and gave his left eye to his teammate when he could have just left Kakashi missing an eye suddenly become a criminal mastermind? If Tobi is just Obito, without any outside influence, why would he want to put the world under the Moon's Eye Plan? To get revenge because Kakashi didn't stop Rin from dying? Obito was one of the few 'good' Uchiha in the series and now we're just supposed to accept that he's the final boss? There better be text covering every panel of chapter 600 to explain all this...

Edit: Also agree with what Crimsonlink said.

I never said that Obito decided to become a villain without outside influence, though. I've already made my points on the subject quite clear; I believe Rin's death put Obito in a depression and he became susceptible to Madara's brainwashing. I also believe that Zetsu had a role to play here; I think he saved Obito from the Kannabi Bridge battle and brought him to Madara. I simply refuse to believe that Obito is a puppet. He knows way too much about Kakashi to just be a Zetsu clone. Every little inconsistency like Tobi's increased height/age, power level and knowledge of previous historical events can easily be explained by Hashirama's DNA and Madara's tutelage. And by the way, I don't think he's the final boss. I think he'll either die or turn good. Madara, Sasuke or Orochimaru are looking more like the final villains at the moment, but that's just my opinion.


As well as tons of other timeline inconsistencies in retrospect to the databooks.

The databooks were trash to begin with, though. Just a way for Kishi to make more money without having to put too much thought into things.

iFi Salamander
30th August 2012, 4:26 AM
I never said that Obito decided to become a villain without outside influence, though. I've already made my points on the subject quite clear; I believe Rin's death put Obito in a depression and he became susceptible to Madara's brainwashing. I also believe that Zetsu had a role to play here; I think he saved Obito from the Kannabi Bridge battle and brought him to Madara. I simply refuse to believe that Obito is a puppet. He knows way too much about Kakashi to just be a Zetsu clone. Every little inconsistency like Tobi's increased height/age, power level and knowledge of previous historical events can easily be explained by Hashirama's DNA and Madara's tutelage. And by the way, I don't think he's the final boss. I think he'll either die or turn good. Madara, Sasuke or Orochimaru are looking more like the final villains at the moment, but that's just my opinion.



The databooks were trash to begin with, though. Just a way for Kishi to make more money without having to put too much thought into things.

I think he does a fine enough job with that already.

Though the databooks are technically cannon so it is an inconsistency. Anko should not have even been in this chapter.

DucksGoMooful
30th August 2012, 4:26 AM
You know ,
After seeing all those flashback of Obito's life , I actually feel sorry for that guy !
Not only he was underdog , His crush only had eye for his rival!
Kind a like Naruto!
Strange huh !
Obito seem more like a Counter-part of Naruto rather then Sasuke even though he was a Uchiha!
May be ,
Naruto can change his heart !

I like the pun you made here :D

There's just so many things that happened in the past that I don't even want to try to look at all of them and see how it all could've happened. One of my biggest things is that Obito "died", then a bit later on was strong enough, mastermind-ly enough, and old enough to take on Minato.

Shadow Lucario
30th August 2012, 4:47 AM
I think he does a fine enough job with that already.

Though the databooks are technically cannon so it is an inconsistency. Anko should not have even been in this chapter.

You do realize that Kakashi isn't much older than Anko right? Only about two years. It's possible for her to be in this chapter.

Lorde
30th August 2012, 5:03 AM
I think he does a fine enough job with that already.

Though the databooks are technically cannon so it is an inconsistency. Anko should not have even been in this chapter.

Does Kishi even write the majority of the stuff in the databooks? 'Cause a lot of the smaller stuff like birth dates/age, height, weight, etc. seem like trivial stuff his assistants would take care of. But it's always possible that Kishi has retconned everything. It wouldn't be the first time, nor will it be the last.


I like the pun you made here :D

There's just so many things that happened in the past that I don't even want to try to look at all of them and see how it all could've happened. One of my biggest things is that Obito "died", then a bit later on was strong enough, mastermind-ly enough, and old enough to take on Minato.

Why do people act like Tobi managed to get the best of Minato? If I remember correctly Minato was able to analyze and come up with counter measures for Tobi's Kamui within moments. Then Tobi ran away like a dog with its tail between its legs. The Kyuubi presented a bigger challenge than Tobi imo.

Crimsonlink
30th August 2012, 5:07 AM
You guys have to admit that this isn't the most obvious plot twist in the series. I mean, it got spelled out inching closer to this chapter, but at least there were some valid alternatives. We all knew Madara was in that coffin from the beginning.

That being said, I wonder how Kishi is going to explain this all. We already got a plothole with the Hokage Monument.

I certainly didn't know it was the original Madara in that coffin from the beginning. :P

Shadow Lucario
30th August 2012, 5:09 AM
Why do people act like Tobi managed to get the best of Minato? If I remember correctly Minato was able to analyze and come up with counter measures for Tobi's Kamui within moments. Then Tobi ran away like a dog with its tail between its legs. The Kyuubi presented a bigger challenge than Tobi imo.

This. No matter how he explains the reason Tobi is how he is, people will say it's not good enough. It could be the best explanation in the world and there will still be people saying that it was the worst explanation they've heard.

JetshipperKekkaishi
30th August 2012, 5:23 AM
No matter what happen in this chapter, Tobi is Obito. I knew it. Now it most likely something to do with Rin since we don't know how she died. I wonder if Obito faked his death so it makes sense for him to create an alter ego Tobi. Maybe this is a path for Naruto if he was treated like Obito.

iFi Salamander
30th August 2012, 5:28 AM
You do realize that Kakashi isn't much older than Anko right? Only about two years. It's possible for her to be in this chapter.

Anko is 24. (No part specified, so she is at least 24, and at most 27.) She graduated from ninja academy at 10.

Kakashi is 29-30.

Kakashi was doing the Chunin exams in this chapter. He was 6 years old. That means Anko at most is 4. However according to the databooks (That Kishi did write) she didn't even graduate from the academy until 10. So it doesn't match up.

No to mention a four year old a ninja. Really? 6 year old Kakashi was bad enough, but most four year olds barely even know how to use the bathroom, let alone fight as highly skilled ninjas.

dewey911p
30th August 2012, 5:48 AM
No matter what happen in this chapter, Tobi is Obito. I knew it. Now it most likely something to do with Rin since we don't know how she died. I wonder if Obito faked his death so it makes sense for him to create an alter ego Tobi. Maybe this is a path for Naruto if he was treated like Obito.

The problem I have with this is it implies Obito knew Rin would die, saw Rin die, and used her death as an excuse to take over the world. If Obito knew Rin would die and is upset at Kakashi for that, why didn't he save her? Also, if he is mad at Kakashi, why take it out on the world? God complex much? Also, if Obito was that demented, I imagine someone that far gone would just use a reanimation jutsu (Edo Tensei perhaps) and live a creepy existence on the side of a cliff out of everyone's way with a reanimated corpse Rin. That reason alone seems to anticlimactic to be the point that caused Obito to snap, but that's just me.

I'm not oppose to the whole "Tobi is Obito" idea, but I'm not sold on it just yet either. I still expect some sort of plot twist from Kishi here, or one hell of an explanation. 1 chapter is not enough for little-old-skeptical-me to say with certainty "Ah-ha! I knew it all along" or even "so that is Tobi's identity and nothing will ever change." On that note though, it would be such a dick move to put us through hell this whole time with Tobi's mask only to reveal his face and then pull the "just kidding this is a puppet" bit. Despite not enthusiastically supporting the "Tobi = Obito" camp, I would be more upset to see masked Tobi pop up out of the ground and have to go through this all again. If that happens, Tobi is obviously Ashton Kutcher though, because that would be a really lame episode of punk'd

Again though, this is Kishimoto's story, I'm just enjoying the ride, so it is up to him.

iFi Salamander
30th August 2012, 5:56 AM
The problem I have with this is it implies Obito knew Rin would die, saw Rin die, and used her death as an excuse to take over the world. If Obito knew Rin would die and is upset at Kakashi for that, why didn't he save her? Also, if he is mad at Kakashi, why take it out on the world? God complex much? Also, if Obito was that demented, I imagine someone that far gone would just use a reanimation jutsu (Edo Tensei perhaps) and live a creepy existence on the side of a cliff out of everyone's way with a reanimated corpse Rin. That reason alone seems to anticlimactic to be the point that caused Obito to snap, but that's just me.

Not to mention Obito turning evil enough to take over the world because the death of one girl in the course of three years is series ruining.

gorgonfish
30th August 2012, 6:05 AM
No matter what happen in this chapter, Tobi is Obito. I knew it. Now it most likely something to do with Rin since we don't know how she died. I wonder if Obito faked his death so it makes sense for him to create an alter ego Tobi. Maybe this is a path for Naruto if he was treated like Obito.
Obito's crush likes someone else who happens to be his teammate, he gets defeated by Gai at least twice easily, and ends up crushed under a boulder.

Naruto grows up an orphan living on his own, he's constantly ignored or outright hated by most people in his village, his best friend becomes the apprentice of the man who killed one of the few people who treated him well (Sarutobi), his sensei Jiraiya was killed (along with most of the Konoha citizens) by Pain, there's probably more that I'm forgetting, but you get the idea. Obito had a way easier life than Naruto (besides the dying thing, but it doesn't look like that actually happened). If all of this Moon's Eye Plan is because Kakashi didn't uphold his promise to protect Rin, why doesn't Obito just kill Kakashi and take back his eye?

Lorde
30th August 2012, 7:00 AM
Not to mention Obito turning evil enough to take over the world because the death of one girl in the course of three years is series ruining.

I guess you've overlooked some posts then, because several people have said that Rin's death probably isn't the only reason why Obito went crazy. And if you really think this revelation is going to ruin the series, then jump ship. You won't be alone; I've already seen at least ten ragequits on another forum today. If this is the way some people are going to act when things don't go their way, then maybe this fanbase is better without them. Just saying.

vodor
30th August 2012, 11:24 AM
The flashback shows Obito Dream , his crush on Rin , His inferiority toward Guy and His Jealousy toward Kakeshi!
May be,
Rin's Death make Obito believe that the world is too imperfect so he want to create a perfect world with no war so people doesn't has to die like Rin !
Obito does claim that he's doing everything for peace!

7 tyranitars
30th August 2012, 12:57 PM
I read this first thing when I woke up, and I died quite a bit inside. The plot holes are gaping.

Also lol@Minato's head being on the rock on page 7 behind Obito even though Minato wasn't even Hokage until after Obito's death.

There are no plotholes because the plot isn't done being written yet.


Kishimoto never said that. If he had, we would've discussed it. :x



A person who looks just like Obito and has his memories. Yes, it's obvious that he's a Zetsu clone.

Well Kira, it was mentioned in one of the data books that zetsu came from the land of the grass. That is wher obito supposedly "died". Could it not be he found Zetsu who repaired his body?

SharpedoX
30th August 2012, 4:07 PM
Well Kira, it was mentioned in one of the data books that zetsu came from the land of the grass. That is wher obito supposedly "died". Could it not be he found Zetsu who repaired his body?

Are you sure? As of yet, there is no confirmation where Zetsu hails. I'm sure of it.


That last part is sarcasm, right?

I'm sorry but as I see it, he may have a completely plausible explanation for him being Obito but revealing him as Obito is not as original as being another character. Most had foreseen it years ago. That's just the way I see it.

7 tyranitars
30th August 2012, 4:52 PM
Are you sure? As of yet, there is no confirmation where Zetsu hails. I'm sure of it.



I'm sorry but as I see it, he may have a completely plausible explanation for him being Obito but revealing him as Obito is not as original as being another character. Most had foreseen it years ago. That's just the way I see it.

It was mentioned in one of the data books I heard. Well if it would have been someone else people would have said the same thing. If it was a random person kishi would have been raged at because it was an anticlimax.

pwnswitchclik
30th August 2012, 6:41 PM
Someone took their to do this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDtr-HoqQvI

edit:


Kishimoto never said that. If he had, we would've discussed it. :x

http://www.fandom.com/fandom/naruto/blogs/2371/interview-with-kishimoto-at-comic-market-78/?page=1

gorgonfish
30th August 2012, 7:02 PM
Someone took their to do this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDtr-HoqQvI
That was perfect. Thanks for sharing it. xD

iFi Salamander
30th August 2012, 7:32 PM
It was mentioned in one of the data books I heard. Well if it would have been someone else people would have said the same thing. If it was a random person kishi would have been raged at because it was an anticlimax.

Obviously you didn't read my whole analysis about how this current chapter is paradoxical and a hole in itself the way it was illustrate. It has become very obvious that Kishimoto can't even remember what he does with half of his characters.

7 tyranitars
30th August 2012, 10:10 PM
Obviously you didn't read my whole analysis about how this current chapter is paradoxical and a hole in itself the way it was illustrate. It has become very obvious that Kishimoto can't even remember what he does with half of his characters.

I remember you ranting about plot holes, and I figured I should reply tho that.

I did and I replied that you will need to give kishi a chance to explain itselfs. Because it can't be a plot hole if he is still busy writing the plot.

DucksGoMooful
30th August 2012, 10:21 PM
You know, this whole business with Obito has me so interested I'm actually going to watch the anime episode(s) when it(they) come out. Someone tell me when the time comes please.

multi-scale
30th August 2012, 10:28 PM
I'm sure there's a decent way to explain. My own guess is that he used some form of time travel to make himself stronger, maybe even been Madara's apprentice. This would make his power increase more logical, since he's training one of the greatest ninjas ever. It would also explain how they know each other. He might have even saved Madara from death after the Hashirama battle.

DucksGoMooful
30th August 2012, 10:31 PM
I'm sure there's a decent way to explain. My own guess is that he used some form of time travel to make himself stronger, maybe even been Madara's apprentice. This would make his power increase more logical, since he's training one of the greatest ninjas ever. It would also explain how they know each other. He might have even saved Madara from death after the Hashirama battle.

Still doesn't explain why he turned evil, because unless he had ulterior motives, he was good at the time of his "death" because he sacrificed his eye for his friend and team-mate Kakashi. He must not have hated Kakashi enough to turn evil unless it was after the fact, when Rin died.

TsukiMirage
30th August 2012, 10:44 PM
You know, this whole business with Obito has me so interested I'm actually going to watch the anime episode(s) when it(they) come out. Someone tell me when the time comes please. Don't worry, you got at least three months before the current chapters get animated.

Lorde
30th August 2012, 11:50 PM
Well Kira, it was mentioned in one of the data books that zetsu came from the land of the grass. That is wher obito supposedly "died". Could it not be he found Zetsu who repaired his body?

Zetsu's homeland hasn't been revealed yet. Of course I think he came from the Land of Grass, but until it's confirmed, I'm not going to use it.


I'm sorry but as I see it, he may have a completely plausible explanation for him being Obito but revealing him as Obito is not as original as being another character. Most had foreseen it years ago. That's just the way I see it.

You claimed that it would be original for Kishi to reveal that Obito's body is being controlled by someone else, but that's the wrong word to use. I mean for God's sake, we've seen that before with Pain; Nagato was playing the part of puppetmaster. You could even say that Sasori and Kabuto were doing the same thing. Obito's dead body being controlled by someone else would be the most unoriginal thing ever.


http://www.fandom.com/fandom/naruto/blogs/2371/interview-with-kishimoto-at-comic-market-78/?page=1

Oh come on. Do you honestly believe Kishi would reveal Tobi's identity in an English interview? Better yet, do you think Kishi would make an official announcement and that the fandom would ignore it? Because this is the first time I've read this, and from what I can tell, nobody has used this as a source. So it's most likely fake.

SenorLaughsaLot
31st August 2012, 12:28 AM
http://www.fandom.com/fandom/naruto/blogs/2371/interview-with-kishimoto-at-comic-market-78/?page=1

Looking into it, they said the interview was during Comic Market 78, which was in 2010.
The most recent being Comiket 82, so it has to be fake ...
I don't believe Kishi would spill the beans like this either :P

EDIT : Just found this x]
http://www.fandom.com/fandom/naruto/blogs/2372/the-truth-behind-the-comic-market-78-interview/

7 tyranitars
31st August 2012, 1:11 PM
Zetsu's homeland hasn't been revealed yet. Of course I think he came from the Land of Grass, but until it's confirmed, I'm not going to use it.



You claimed that it would be original for Kishi to reveal that Obito's body is being controlled by someone else, but that's the wrong word to use. I mean for God's sake, we've seen that before with Pain; Nagato was playing the part of puppetmaster. You could even say that Sasori and Kabuto were doing the same thing. Obito's dead body being controlled by someone else would be the most unoriginal thing ever.



Oh come on. Do you honestly believe Kishi would reveal Tobi's identity in an English interview? Better yet, do you think Kishi would make an official announcement and that the fandom would ignore it? Because this is the first time I've read this, and from what I can tell, nobody has used this as a source. So it's most likely fake.

Oh my bad then. Also about the interview, I highly doubt that it is legit. Kishi is usualy really good with not letting any spoilers slip. So he wouldn't just tell random fans that Tobi is Izuna that is crazy.

Lorde
31st August 2012, 8:40 PM
Yeah, looks like the interview was fake after all. He did an interview about a month ago where he basically told us to wait for Tobi's identity to be revealed, so it would be silly for him to just spill the beans in another interview.

Kamex
31st August 2012, 9:10 PM
Still not sure why so many people completely discounted the Tobi-is-Obito theory despite all the clues. You should never count anything out unless you're the one writing the work (maybe not even in that case).

That being said, I sure do hope that Obito gained his eccentric personality and dystopian idealism through more experiences other than heartache over Rin and rivalry with Kakashi. I mean I'm sure anyone who's had their heart broken knows it can make you pretty crazy, but that would be a rather childish and cliche reason (as many have already said) for him to become the bad-*** Tobi that could have been Madara Uchiha himself! Plus, Obito's character seemed to be resolved at the end of the Kakashi Gaiden, so I will reserve hope that Kishi has some compelling reasons and anecdotes that justify covering so many new miles with him, having him become the most enigmatic and interesting villain in the series and all.

As much as I like to see characters when they were younger, I have to admit I'm usually disappointed when a bunch of characters are just sort of retconned to have grown up with each other or otherwise have some sort of association in the past when it was never even hinted at before. Kishi seems very fond of doing this, such as when he made Naruto and Sasuke's rivalry extend to when they were children (or even babies...), or when he had many of the Genin know each other when it previously seemed like they weren't that close. And now he has most of the Jounin in the village with fleshed out characteristics and names all happen to be on the same teams and suddenly be around the same age? I'll never believe that doing this type of thing is worth hurting the continuity of a story.

Other than all of that, I was satisfied with the chapter. I really, really like Obito and Tobi as individual characters, hopefully they're association will become more satisfying than it currently is for me personally.

On another note, I can't believe this thread was created nearly 6 years ago. Time flies...

Shneak
1st September 2012, 2:13 AM
I have a feeling that Madara saved Obito's life and basically took him on as an apprentice. Madara forced Obito to kill Rin (possibly for his MS?), and then eventually Obito killed Madara. That's why Tobi/Obito was scared when Kabuto revealed the Madara coffin.

I don't know. Vomiting words.

Lorde
1st September 2012, 3:15 AM
I have a feeling that Madara saved Obito's life and basically took him on as an apprentice. Madara forced Obito to kill Rin (possibly for his MS?), and then eventually Obito killed Madara. That's why Tobi/Obito was scared when Kabuto revealed the Madara coffin.

I don't know. Vomiting words.

My thoughts are similar to yours, only I think Zetsu saved Obito on Madara's orders and Rin died under different circumstances. I just don't think Obito could've killed her.

-Raiga-
1st September 2012, 3:23 AM
Only reason I'm butthurt over the whole thing is because the chapters we're finally getting good, just to be slapped with a half-*** revelation.

As previously mentioned, being Obito brings "tobi" so far down the ninja ladder its ridiculous. No explanation could possibly be good enough to make someone able to compete againts 4 top tier ninjas+2 biju at the same time.

I'll wait for future chapters though, one crappy story decision isn't enough to derail the manga.

iFi Salamander
1st September 2012, 3:52 AM
Only reason I'm butthurt over the whole thing is because the chapters we're finally getting good, just to be slapped with a half-*** revelation.

As previously mentioned, being Obito brings "tobi" so far down the ninja ladder its ridiculous. No explanation could possibly be good enough to make someone able to compete againts 4 top tier ninjas+2 biju at the same time.

I'll wait for future chapters though, one crappy story decision isn't enough to derail the manga.

The manga was derailed long before this atrocity.

PokeMaster366
1st September 2012, 4:25 AM
The manga was derailed long before this atrocity.

When was it derailed? When they started the war of the undead or when Sasuke started stealing the spotlight starting from the invasion of the summit meeting?

iFi Salamander
1st September 2012, 4:45 AM
When was it derailed? When they started the war of the undead or when Sasuke started stealing the spotlight starting from the invasion of the summit meeting?

Notable things that have happened recently in the manga that really ruined it for me:

-Sasuke became a complete tool
-Nagato brought everyone back to life with Rinne Rebirth
-Konan got absolutely trolled while fighting Tobi
-The undead war that barely feels like a war because nobody important actually ever dies/gets injured.
-The real Uchiha Madara. Nuff said.
-The five Kages looking absolutely pathetic.
-Tons of off screen fights in the war.
-Izanami asspull
-Sakura getting shafted after the great buildup in Shippuden.
-Neji not reuniting with his father in the Edo Tensei war for interesting dialogue.

I can probably think of others but there were just a lot of silly things, as well as perfect opportunities that Kishimoto passed up. The anime might as well be called Eye Powers.

I will Kishimoto credit though, he gave Kabuto great character development. That is one thing he did right. Now how he lost, not so much.

Lorde
1st September 2012, 6:22 AM
When was it derailed? When they started the war of the undead or when Sasuke started stealing the spotlight starting from the invasion of the summit meeting?

I've never understood people's complaints about Sasuke. To be completely honest, while he may be an arrogant little brat, at least he's interesting. I'm glad he got a lot of panel time during the Gokage Summit arc. After all the Naruto hyping during the Pain Invasion arc and the disappointing TnJ ending, I wanted something fresh, and that's exactly what Kishi delivered.

And to be frank, it's disappointing that people are only now starting to complain about the manga. Where was everyone when I mentioned how redundant the Edo Tensei zombies were or when I complained about the various war battles? It seems people are only speaking up because they're "butthurt" over Tobi being Obito, which says a lot.

Kamex
1st September 2012, 6:25 AM
According to one of the animated segments from Naruto Storm Generations (I'm not too familiar with the Naruto games, but this seemed pretty credible to me...), Madara's EMS affords him the power to control time, perhaps in limited amounts. I don't think it would be too far-fetched to speculate that this has something to do with both his continued relevance in the story after his supposed death, and Obito's transformation into Tobi in time to rival Minato within a few "normal" years.

In other words... maybe Madara helped Obito travel back in time somehow. The other theory that I kind of like (can't remember if anyone brought this up) is that the Tobi that fought Minato was actually Madara or some form of him, and Obito later took his place as Tobi, perhaps after Madara's true death. The main flaw with this that I can see is that there's no explanation for why Madara-Tobi would have Obito-Tobi's Space-Time abilities.

Or I suppose Zetsu has something to do with it.

Also, about Obito having a left Sharingan at one point after parting with Kakashi: don't forget that he has a large stash of them that he collected and keeps in his alternate dimension.



-The real Uchiha Madara. Nuff said.

Actually, I'm not sure what you're getting at. Haha.


-The five Kages looking absolutely pathetic.
Well up until Madara came onto the scene they've been pretty amazing IIRC. Every fight they got into was pretty large-scale, and I'm pretty sure Kishi just wants to drive the "Madara is completely out-of-this-world strong" notion into everyone's head. I suppose that's your problem with it though. Perhaps this is supposed to set Madara up as the actual ultimate villain of the series.


-Neji not reuniting with his father in the Edo Tensei war for interesting dialogue.
Agree with this completely... he's one of my favorite characters, it's sad that he's been shunned as much as even Tenten (yeah I said it lol) in Part II. Personally I wanted his sister Hanabi to have some spotlight too.

TsukiMirage
1st September 2012, 9:24 AM
Still not sure why so many people completely discounted the Tobi-is-Obito theory despite all the clues. You should never count anything out unless you're the one writing the work (maybe not even in that case). People were discounting it because there was also evidence against it and only recently did any actual evidence for him being Obito come to light.


When was it derailed? When they started the war of the undead or when Sasuke started stealing the spotlight starting from the invasion of the summit meeting? Started when Nagato revived all the nameless people he had killed.

7 tyranitars
1st September 2012, 1:53 PM
Notable things that have happened recently in the manga that really ruined it for me:

-Sasuke became a complete tool
-Nagato brought everyone back to life with Rinne Rebirth
-Konan got absolutely trolled while fighting Tobi
-The undead war that barely feels like a war because nobody important actually ever dies/gets injured.
-The real Uchiha Madara. Nuff said.
-The five Kages looking absolutely pathetic.
-Tons of off screen fights in the war.
-Izanami asspull
-Sakura getting shafted after the great buildup in Shippuden.
-Neji not reuniting with his father in the Edo Tensei war for interesting dialogue.

I can probably think of others but there were just a lot of silly things, as well as perfect opportunities that Kishimoto passed up. The anime might as well be called Eye Powers.

I will Kishimoto credit though, he gave Kabuto great character development. That is one thing he did right. Now how he lost, not so much.

That you don't get what you want doesn't mean the manga is derailed, so please stop sounding like a spoiled brat who wants his manga to go exactly like he has planned and actualy wait for Kishi to give an explaination. Because guese what: the manga isn't done after he revealed tobi to be obito.

Shadow Lucario
1st September 2012, 1:58 PM
People were discounting it because there was also evidence against it and only recently did any actual evidence for him being Obito come to light.


There has been evidence of him being Obito for years. The fact that we only saw his right eye for the longest time, the wrinkles on the right side of his face, the bolts and pins on the right side of his body. That's not all recent.

iFi Salamander
1st September 2012, 2:41 PM
That you don't get what you want doesn't mean the manga is derailed, so please stop sounding like a spoiled brat who wants his manga to go exactly like he has planned and actualy wait for Kishi to give an explaination. Because guese what: the manga isn't done after he revealed tobi to be obito.

Stop trying to be a blind fanboy defending terrible writing. That list didn't include the tons of gaping plot holes, which are most of the reason it is just a terrible manga objectively anymore. All it really does now is appeal to testosterone filled teenagers. It has about as much "plot" as DBZ.

Also I've been a devout Naruto fan for 7 years. I in every right deserve to whine about this absurdity.

7 tyranitars
1st September 2012, 7:28 PM
Stop trying to be a blind fanboy defending terrible writing. That list didn't include the tons of gaping plot holes, which are most of the reason it is just a terrible manga objectively anymore. All it really does now is appeal to testosterone filled teenagers. It has about as much "plot" as DBZ.

Also I've been a devout Naruto fan for 7 years. I in every right deserve to whine about this absurdity.

Blind fanboy huh? That sounds cute. Just because I don't cry too much about certain what if's and just enjoy the ride I am a blind fanboy.. Interesting. I would rather say that I accept what happen and continue to enjoy the manga, if you don't enjoy it do all of us a huge favor and stop reading it.

Shadow Lucario
1st September 2012, 7:34 PM
Stop trying to be a blind fanboy defending terrible writing. That list didn't include the tons of gaping plot holes, which are most of the reason it is just a terrible manga objectively anymore. All it really does now is appeal to testosterone filled teenagers. It has about as much "plot" as DBZ.

Also I've been a devout Naruto fan for 7 years. I in every right deserve to whine about this absurdity.

I love how people say there are huge plot holes yet never explain what they are. And if they do give one it's something that will more than likely be closed later on. If you think it's such a terrible manga then stop reading it and stop posting here. I'm tired of coming here and just seeing you bash it for not going the way you wanted.

Lorde
1st September 2012, 8:25 PM
I'll admit that there weren't huge bits of evidence that Tobi was Obito, but the signs were there; you just had to look for them. I think Tobi's use of Madara as his alias really threw some people off. I kind of knew that he was lying after his talk with Sasuke (after all he lied about the Kyuubi attack so I couldn't exactly trust him), and I kept hope that he really was Obito under the disguise.

iFi Salamander
1st September 2012, 9:16 PM
I love how people say there are huge plot holes yet never explain what they are. And if they do give one it's something that will more than likely be closed later on. If you think it's such a terrible manga then stop reading it and stop posting here. I'm tired of coming here and just seeing you bash it for not going the way you wanted.

I explained like 5 four pages ago. >.> And everyone knows the Obito hole already. (Kishi may alleviate this in the upcoming chapters, I can't see it being anything more than an tolerable explanation though.)


lind fanboy huh? That sounds cute. Just because I don't cry too much about certain what if's and just enjoy the ride I am a blind fanboy.. Interesting. I would rather say that I accept what happen and continue to enjoy the manga, if you don't enjoy it do all of us a huge favor and stop reading it.

I am a novelist, I have watched about 30 different animes, and 20 different television series. I was one of the six top writers of my class, and I am simply saying that Kishimoto is just trashing his series that was excellent in the beginning. Hell my novel is about four times better than anything Kishimoto writes anymore.

I am scrutinizing this for the same reason I quit watching Fairy Tail, it is completely predictable mindless plot for children. The reality is back in part 1 and the beginning of Shippuden it wasn't that way. Kishimoto is just trying to force fights too hard that he wishes to write, and is obviously rushing the series because he is burnt out. That is all I am saying. At least Kubo is burning out with a bang.

At the same time with the amount of time I have invested in Naruto I'd be a petty child not to finish it over this. So that is the only reason I am sticking around, to see it to the end. (That I have already predicted.)

TsukiMirage
2nd September 2012, 12:55 AM
There has been evidence of him being Obito for years. The fact that we only saw his right eye for the longest time, the wrinkles on the right side of his face, the bolts and pins on the right side of his body. That's not all recent. First off, only seeing his right eye was by no means a clue before, as the going theory was that Obito's side had been completely crushed. Secondly, the wrinkles were actually being used to disprove that he was Obito, as the argument was that Obito wouldn't be old enough to have wrinkles. And thirdly, it was only an assumption that those things were bolts on both sides of his body, which clashed with the whole Zetsu goo theory. Throw in the events with Minato, what was said to Konan, the way he clutched his arm while telling Sasuke about Izuna, and three of the smartest ninjas around referring to him as Madara, and there was plenty to suggest that he wasn't Obito. Before now, it had seem as if he was actually gonna turn out to be Izuna, explaining his connection to Madara and how he knew so much.

-Raiga-
2nd September 2012, 12:59 AM
I'll admit that there weren't huge bits of evidence that Tobi was Obito,

Well, ironically for me, I thought there was WAY too much evidence that it was obito, so much so that I assumed kishi was pulling one over on the community. I mean, the power and personality difference of obito to tobi isn't so crazy its interesting, its just plain stupid.

I mean, don't compare my "butthurt" to ifi salamander's, I only dislike the decision because I loved how everything was leading up to it. Plus I think it ruins the whole obito backstory, which even though its in an official volume, I considered it more an extra then an actual part of the manga.(much less having to deal with the strongest villian in the series)

TsukiMirage
2nd September 2012, 1:07 AM
Well the main reason I disliked the Obito reveal outside of it not making sense, is simply because it now turns the main conflict away from being Tobi vs Naruto, and replaces it with Obito vs Kakashi. Instead of Naruto taking center stage against the guy who basically is responsible for his terrible childhood and the murder of his parents, he's gonna take a backseat to Kakashi working out his friendship trouble.

Ver-mont
2nd September 2012, 1:09 AM
Well the main reason I disliked the Obito reveal outside of it not making sense, is simply because it now turns the main conflict away from being Tobi vs Naruto, and replaces it with Obito vs Kakashi. Instead of Naruto taking center stage against the guy who basically is responsible for his terrible childhood and the murder of his parents, he's gonna take a backseat to Kakashi working out his friendship trouble.

I think we can still have Naruto vs Obito after Kakashi gets his time in the spotlight. Obito is basically a Naruto gone evil, he's a counterpart to him, I think it's an interesting dynamic to develop. (ooor Kishimoto is saving Sasuke as Naruto's climatic boss fight and won't use said conflict)