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Lorde
2nd September 2012, 1:10 AM
First off, only seeing his right eye was by no means a clue before, as the going theory was that Obito's side had been completely crushed. Secondly, the wrinkles were actually being used to disprove that he was Obito, as the argument was that Obito wouldn't be old enough to have wrinkles. And thirdly, it was only an assumption that those things were bolts on both sides of his body, which clashed with the whole Zetsu goo theory. Throw in the events with Minato, what was said to Konan, the way he clutched his arm while telling Sasuke about Izuna, and three of the smartest ninjas around referring to him as Madara, and there was plenty to suggest that he wasn't Obito. Before now, it had seem as if he was actually gonna turn out to be Izuna, explaining his connection to Madara and how he knew so much.

It seems that almost everyone thought those lines on Tobi's face were wrinkles; I only saw a few people who said they were scars, and it seems they were right. Looking back, we shouldn't have jumped in like that without thinking of all the possibilities. And as for Tobi's arm clutching: I noticed it as well, but I thought he did that not just because he was lying about Izuna self-sacrificing his eyes, but because he was lying about the whole story of being Madara.

-Raiga-
2nd September 2012, 5:24 AM
I think we can still have Naruto vs Obito after Kakashi gets his time in the spotlight. Obito is basically a Naruto gone evil, he's a counterpart to him, I think it's an interesting dynamic to develop. (ooor Kishimoto is saving Sasuke as Naruto's climatic boss fight and won't use said conflict)

To be honest, I can actually see a third route, of obito killing kakashi and sasuke comes in for the kill(as kakashi is one of the few people I assume sasuke respects) using the chidori. Just adds fuel to sasuke's hatred too. Though I'm sure sasuke and orochi will be mixed up in the madara crud, but still, another idea.


Well the main reason I disliked the Obito reveal outside of it not making sense, is simply because it now turns the main conflict away from being Tobi vs Naruto, and replaces it with Obito vs Kakashi. Instead of Naruto taking center stage against the guy who basically is responsible for his terrible childhood and the murder of his parents, he's gonna take a backseat to Kakashi working out his friendship trouble.

Perhaps my memory is bad, but does naruto even know about the stuff tobi did to him? I don't remember anyone telling him about tobi directly, I thought he just had an overview of his birth.

Shneak
2nd September 2012, 5:26 AM
It seems that almost everyone thought those lines on Tobi's face were wrinkles; I only saw a few people who said they were scars, and it seems they were right. Looking back, we shouldn't have jumped in like that without thinking of all the possibilities.

I don't know, I sort of thought that if Tobi was Obito, but I didn't want to jump to conclusions because we never saw the other half of his face. Only the scarred part when Konan blew it up.

Kamex
2nd September 2012, 7:42 AM
First off, only seeing his right eye was by no means a clue before, as the going theory was that Obito's side had been completely crushed.
Well I mean obviously the story had suggested that Obito side was crushed, but that doesn't mean it had to happen that way. I think the fact that he only showed his right eye at least hinted at the possibility.


Before now, it had seem as if he was actually gonna turn out to be Izuna, explaining his connection to Madara and how he knew so much.
That would have made some sense, but just because a clue doesn't seem to be completely substantial at one point in time doesn't automatically make it useless, especially in a story that can pull plot twists and new revelations on a whim.

Perhaps Obito is the reincarnation of Madara! That might explain everything.


Perhaps my memory is bad, but does naruto even know about the stuff tobi did to him? I don't remember anyone telling him about tobi directly, I thought he just had an overview of his birth.
Well I'm pretty sure he knows that "Madara Uchiha" was responsible for the Kyuubi attack on Konoha after his birth, so I assume he realizes that this was in fact Tobi. Although now that you mention it, I wonder why the Kyuubi didn't realize that this man isn't actually Madara Uchiha but an impersonator...

Lorde
2nd September 2012, 7:54 AM
Perhaps Obito is the reincarnation of Madara! That might explain everything.

If he's Madara's reincarnation, and therefore knows everything about Madara's past, it still doesn't explain why he didn't know how to stop Edo Tensei and had to ask Kabuto about it. We know that the real Madara knows a lot about the technique including how to escape it, so there's an inconsistency there. And there might even be others that I'm not remembering. I kind of prefer the "Obito is Izuna's reincarnation" theory, but only because Izuna and Obito share the same birth date and blood type. Still, I'm not a huge supporter of the theory. I just think it's preferable to some of the other theories I've read; I must've read more than a hundred.

TsukiMirage
2nd September 2012, 9:14 AM
I think we can still have Naruto vs Obito after Kakashi gets his time in the spotlight. Obito is basically a Naruto gone evil, he's a counterpart to him, I think it's an interesting dynamic to develop. (ooor Kishimoto is saving Sasuke as Naruto's climatic boss fight and won't use said conflict) Didn't we already get that with Nagato? Besides, there hasn't even been any buildup towards the fact that Tobi murdered his parents. At least with Nagato, Naruto took a stand. I suppose it could turn out that I'm worrying for nothing, but with the way things have been going...


It seems that almost everyone thought those lines on Tobi's face were wrinkles; I only saw a few people who said they were scars, and it seems they were right. Looking back, we shouldn't have jumped in like that without thinking of all the possibilities. And as for Tobi's arm clutching: I noticed it as well, but I thought he did that not just because he was lying about Izuna self-sacrificing his eyes, but because he was lying about the whole story of being Madara. Yeah, I think I only seen two people before now that believed those weren't wrinkles. And to be fair, the fact that Tobi was about to show Sasuke his face and did show Kisame seem like it would have been the case. That was one theory, but as we got more and more into the idea that he was "Madara", it look like it was gonna turn out to be a hint at his identity.


Perhaps my memory is bad, but does naruto even know about the stuff tobi did to him? I don't remember anyone telling him about tobi directly, I thought he just had an overview of his birth. Minato told him a little and Kushina told him the whole story. Naruto knows that not only was Tobi behind Akatsuki, but he had attacked the village and lead to his parents death.


Well I mean obviously the story had suggested that Obito side was crushed, but that doesn't mean it had to happen that way. I think the fact that he only showed his right eye at least hinted at the possibility. We had no reason not to believe it had. Putting aside the fact that it turnt out true, why his right side? If we presume his right side was survivable, then his left side would have been that and more.


That would have made some sense, but just because a clue doesn't seem to be completely substantial at one point in time doesn't automatically make it useless, especially in a story that can pull plot twists and new revelations on a whim.

Perhaps Obito is the reincarnation of Madara! That might explain everything. More like massive recon, at least til we get some sort of explanation of how the heck this was even possible.

Would reincarnation work with the previous soul to go alone with? Cause Edo Tensei pretty much throws a wrench ion that idea.

Joltik-Kid
3rd September 2012, 7:36 AM
Just goes to show the destiny of the Uchiha... always ends in hatred

Locormus
4th September 2012, 2:48 AM
To be honest, I can actually see a third route, of obito killing kakashi and sasuke comes in for the kill(as kakashi is one of the few people I assume sasuke respects) using the chidori. Just adds fuel to sasuke's hatred too. Though I'm sure sasuke and orochi will be mixed up in the madara crud, but still, another idea.

Perhaps my memory is bad, but does naruto even know about the stuff tobi did to him? I don't remember anyone telling him about tobi directly, I thought he just had an overview of his birth.

Nah, Minato and Kushina filled him in completely, starting with the 'it was a man with a mask, the one who's behind Akatsuki'-stuff.. To which Naruto replied with saying: 'that guy!?' Referencing when they saw him earlier in the story when Kakashi had a good look at that sharingan of 'Tobi's, and when Shino actually did exceptionally well. -.-


Well I mean obviously the story had suggested that Obito side was crushed, but that doesn't mean it had to happen that way. I think the fact that he only showed his right eye at least hinted at the possibility.

That would have made some sense, but just because a clue doesn't seem to be completely substantial at one point in time doesn't automatically make it useless, especially in a story that can pull plot twists and new revelations on a whim.

Perhaps Obito is the reincarnation of Madara! That might explain everything.

Well I'm pretty sure he knows that "Madara Uchiha" was responsible for the Kyuubi attack on Konoha after his birth, so I assume he realizes that this was in fact Tobi. Although now that you mention it, I wonder why the Kyuubi didn't realize that this man isn't actually Madara Uchiha but an impersonator...

Because the Kyuubi also thought that Sasuke's chakra had the same feel as Madara's? Or filled with the same hate or something.

Lorde
4th September 2012, 3:30 AM
Wait, when did the Kyuubi say that Tobi was Madara? The closest thing I can remember are the flashback chapters when the Kyuubi referred to Tobi as "You...!" which could've meant anyone (now that we know Tobi is Obito, it could easily be explained that Kurama recognized him as Minato's former student). Unless I'm missing something.

multi-scale
4th September 2012, 3:51 AM
I hate how Obito goes from some excellent backstory for Kakashi getting a Sharingan to a supervillian. To me he was never more than a means for Kakashi to grab a Sharingan, and I never wanted him to be. I know I'm bringing thousands of pounds of butthurt, but I need a villain who demands respect from the very beginning, not some sideshow character who pulls the strength of the boss to such a low level. It's a manga and if Naruto is whipping out Nine Tails mode I want to see this villain with some godlike powers. Obito just doesn't seem to cut it. The mysteriousness of this masked man who survived several thousands of exploding tags, who blocked Zabuza's sword with an arm, who claims to have fought in nonstop wars since he entered adulthood, who claims to have fought on par with Hashirama (who is basically the greatest ninja ever, excluding the Sage), who controlled the Nine Tails and wreaked havoc on Kanoha, who helped Itachi murder his own clan, who is the leader of the Akatsuki, who has a knowledge of the ninja world that is better than any other character in the series, is not the same characted who got dropped by a rock and had his eye shoved in his friend's socket. I know this is all butthurt, but come on. If this is completely legit it will ruin Naruto for me and probably a lot of other people to (although I know many people will also enjoy it.) I have never needed a chapter more than I need this next one, and this better be some puppet bullcrap or Kishimoto has steered the biggest mystery of the series into the garbage dump.

Ver-mont
4th September 2012, 6:58 AM
The mysteriousness of this masked man who survived several thousands of exploding tags, who blocked Zabuza's sword with an arm, who claims to have fought in nonstop wars since he entered adulthood, who claims to have fought on par with Hashirama (who is basically the greatest ninja ever, excluding the Sage), who controlled the Nine Tails and wreaked havoc on Kanoha, who helped Itachi murder his own clan, who is the leader of the Akatsuki, who has a knowledge of the ninja world that is better than any other character in the series, is not the same characted who got dropped by a rock and had his eye shoved in his friend's socket.

Well, and he isn't. Technically, he isn't. Obito as we knew him is no more, he definitely isn't that same guy anymore, and he became the very person you talk about.
What I want to know is how and why.

7 tyranitars
4th September 2012, 11:18 PM
Wait, when did the Kyuubi say that Tobi was Madara? The closest thing I can remember are the flashback chapters when the Kyuubi referred to Tobi as "You...!" which could've meant anyone (now that we know Tobi is Obito, it could easily be explained that Kurama recognized him as Minato's former student). Unless I'm missing something.

Tobi summoned Karuma remember :) He pulled him out of Kushina.

Lorde
5th September 2012, 1:10 AM
Tobi summoned Karuma remember :) He pulled him out of Kushina.

Are you implying that because Tobi had a summoning contract with the Kyuubi, he must've been Madara? Because while that does sound reasonable, I have a feeling that Kishi will overlook that fact or simply explain it as Madara helping Tobi by transferring some of his powers to him/having him sign a similar Kyuubi-summoning contract.

And I really hope we get spoilers today; I'm dying to know why Obito turned evil.

Platinum fan.
5th September 2012, 1:10 AM
I see this thread is still buzzing with Obito theories. While that's all fine and fun, I still wonder what made Obito evil? It's interesting seeing Naruto meet people like Gaara, Nagato, Obito, and heck even Sasuke because in some shape or form Naruto could have ended up like them in some twisted way.

-Raiga-
5th September 2012, 2:52 AM
I think obito started reading everything since the war arc began. Anyone would go evil after that.

DANdotW
5th September 2012, 9:33 AM
So...I guess I'm right in suggesting Madara beat the Kage's. I wish we could have at least seen the end, but it's a fairly good chapter. I would have liked to see more in-depth stuff from Obito's past, but I guess we'll get a little more each chapter. I knew at some point Naruto would have to face Madara, but I didn't think it would be together with Tobito. Although yay @ a fire-style jutsu from Tobito.

gorgonfish
5th September 2012, 10:23 AM
Oh god, I think I'm going to die laughing...
Obito's reason for doing this is because Rin died? Maybe that's the way to activate the Kamui, get friendzoned and make everyone think you're dead. xD

brendan25
5th September 2012, 10:36 AM
Sakura and others are late! I wonder what happen to the five kages?

lolipiece
5th September 2012, 10:41 AM
And if you look to your left, you can see Kishimoto's ability to write proper character motivation dying a slow, painful death.

Seriously, that's it? Weak. Like that's never been done before.

7 tyranitars
5th September 2012, 11:05 AM
Seems his reason was that Rin died. To be fair, I wouldn't be able to think of something else either. And it seem the real Madara has arrived.

SkyDeity
5th September 2012, 3:07 PM
So, could the Madara finding and training Obito theories be true?
It's kinda sad to see that Tobi was so obvious....identity and motive-wise, but I want more explanations...the flashbacks are killing me .n.

Aeon™
5th September 2012, 4:18 PM
I think it's obvious that Rin dying isn't the full reason that Obito became Tobi. He was manipulated by someone. Probably Madara, as Madara already knew it was Obito. And I agree, all these flashback chapters are killing me. I need something to happen. But, yeah. Based on Madara's actions in the past few chapters, I have a feeling he's the real mastermind, and is planning on stepping in at the last minute now that he's immortal and regenerating. Use the ten-tails that Obito revives to destroy konoha / take over the world and stuff.

JetshipperKekkaishi
5th September 2012, 4:26 PM
So the reason why Obito is doing what he is doing is because of Rin. He told Kahashi to look after Rin but she died which makes him think that the world is nothing but a violent world so he wants to create a world where there is a world without war and death. He trying to escape reality after Rin died which I want to know more about.

Aeon™
5th September 2012, 4:35 PM
Yes, and that supports what I said, cause how does he know that Rin's dead? If he was crushed under rocks, there must have been a second person. The cause of Rin's death is unknown. It's possible that someone killed her just so that Obito would get this mindset. I'm new to the whole naruto speculation scene, put I can only assume this has already been said before.

Honestly, my biggest question right now is this: Where'd the Rinnengan come from? How did Obito get it?

Lorde
5th September 2012, 4:36 PM
I felt that this chapter was wasted in a sense. I thought those repeat flashbacks to the Kakashi Chronicles arc were just redundant and they made things go slowly. Anyway, it seems Tobi is 100% confirmed to be Obito now that his motivation has been revealed. If he were anyone else, he wouldn't even know Rin much less care about her. I was surprised that he finally used a Katon, but even more surprised that Madara arrived. Things just got more complicated.

SkyDeity
5th September 2012, 4:59 PM
Yes, and that supports what I said, cause how does he know that Rin's dead? If he was crushed under rocks, there must have been a second person. The cause of Rin's death is unknown. It's possible that someone killed her just so that Obito would get this mindset. I'm new to the whole naruto speculation scene, put I can only assume this has already been said before.

Honestly, my biggest question right now is this: Where'd the Rinnengan come from? How did Obito get it?

He got it from Nagato's corpse.

Aeon™
5th September 2012, 5:08 PM
But at one point, didn't he say he gave it to Nagato?

Joltik-Kid
5th September 2012, 5:11 PM
I love it... "You lets the girl I love die when you promised to protect her..." so let's f*** up the world XD

Obviously Obito had no real other reason, but it's kinda sad when we able to easily see it coming

SkyDeity
5th September 2012, 5:13 PM
But at one point, didn't he say he gave it to Nagato?

Like how Tobito lied about being Madara Uchiha, he probably lied about that, too. Unless there is another explanation that has yet to come...

Lorde
5th September 2012, 5:17 PM
Obviously Obito had no real other reason, but it's kinda sad when we able to easily see it coming

We haven't even heard Obito's entire explanation yet. So how can you make such a bold assumption? The only thing that this chapter confirmed was Tobi's identity for the people who still had doubts, although I'm sure some pressed souls are still going to argue against it until the manga ends. It was so obvious that things were going to turn out this way. I honestly can't believe that some still cling to a few inconsistencies when Kishi has already proven to be a lackluster writer who will just retcon everything that doesn't make sense.

Aeon™
5th September 2012, 5:19 PM
Like how Tobito lied about being Madara Uchiha, he probably lied about that, too. Unless there is another explanation that has yet to come...

I think there's another explanation, cause there's no way that whole thing was a coincidence. One the coincidences starts stacking, they go from coincidences to subtle evil mastermind plan.

Joltik-Kid
5th September 2012, 5:45 PM
We haven't even heard Obito's entire explanation yet. So how can you make such a bold assumption? The only thing that this chapter confirmed was Tobi's identity for the people who still had doubts, although I'm sure some pressed souls are still going to argue against it until the manga ends. It was so obvious that things were going to turn out this way. I honestly can't believe that some still cling to a few inconsistencies when Kishi has already proven to be a lackluster writer who will just retcon everything that doesn't make sense.
I not saying it's the only reason, but it's obvious the biggest and more likely best reason... unless some more brainwashing happened (another recurring theme in this manga) But we clearly knew that Rin had to have some role in this whole "I'm Evil Now" thing. I'm not clinging to anything, I knew Tobi was Obito the moment Kakashi revealed Tobi was using the same jutsu as Kakashi was. (Actually, Sakura made the assumption first and I posted that a few pages or so back when Kakashi said the same exact thing) All I was getting at was literally what my first sentence says.

iFi Salamander
5th September 2012, 5:57 PM
Summary of the chapter:

"Hey fans, I just revealed to you a huge plot prospect, the fact that Tobi is Obito. Now instead of explaining this terrible outcome, enjoy fourteen pages of pure flashbacks you've already seen. Once this is over the only explanation you get for Obito completely snapping is it started with Kakashi letting Rin die. Now to take your mind off this completely asinine concept, let's rain Madara from the sky then have him and Obito use a sweet looking fire jutsu combination with Kamui to remind you of the real reason you read this series. Screw plot."

1. Oh great, let us start a war and use the Infinite Tsukoyomi to take over the world because when I was thirteen I was angsty and my best friend let my crush die. Man I make Sasuke look like a good villain.

Now I know a lot of you will say that Obito only claimed Rin was the reason he never came back when he found out he was alive and it doesn't mean it is the reason he turned evil. Coincidentally you gave the same arguments when Tobi made the indirect statements about Kakashi and Guy's characters before his reveal, amongst other times. At this point what right to we have to deny the worst? If you think Kishimoto is going to come up with any better reason for Obito's turn of character, you will probably be wrong.

2. I really don't see where he can go from here with this fight. We have immortal guy on the level of Aizen villain tier, and most powerful living man alive fighting a weakened Gai, and Kakashi. Naruto is the only useful one and he can't solo them both, Madara can barely be beaten as it is. I sense horribly induced plot win approaching! :D

3. If Madara was just going to off screen the Kages, what the hell was the point of the ten chapters showing the fight with them? To produce some sort of cheesy philosophy about strength to make us wait another six weeks for the information we actually care about?

4. I guess there is always the chance that Madara brainwashed Obito, but it is still pretty pathetic if he was able to twist his resolve over the death of a little girl.

This chapter was one of the biggest middle fingers I have ever seen, even for Kishimoto. It might actually be worse than last weeks.

Crimsonlink
5th September 2012, 7:33 PM
Wow Kishimoto why do you touch romance with a 10 foot stick? Like seriously it is plain terrible how Rin is implied to be the major reason Obito went bad.

Yes I acknowledge that Tobi is now Obito as this chapter confirmed from word of mouth. Well at least its heading towards its conclusion.

TsukiMirage
5th September 2012, 7:48 PM
We couldn't even get some new flashbacks. Still disappointed in this revelation, and it all being over the death of a girl doesn't make it any better. It's actually one of the worst reasons given for turning evil in the series. At least for other characters, they turnt evil because of multiple deaths and betrayals. Seriously, what happen to the whole "emotionless" aspect that they were suppose to be being taught. And how the heck could Madara get there so fast when the Allied Army hasn't even reached them since getting on their way more then a dozen chapters ago? Alright chapter merely because this is the climax.

PokeMaster366
5th September 2012, 8:54 PM
My reasoning on why Obito turned:

He trained under Madara and wanted to become stronger in order to change the world for the better, but the only way he was able to gain a level in his Sharingan was to kill the person closest to him: Rin. He had to kill Rin, and was peeved that Kakashi let him kill her that easily. Feeling angsty over killing Rin, he eventually killed Madara in anger and took his sharingan.

...Yeah, this manga is starting to go terrible story-wise. I hope the story about the gutsy, yet generic "child of prophecy" ends soon.

Lorde
5th September 2012, 9:30 PM
He trained under Madara and wanted to become stronger in order to change the world for the better, but the only way he was able to gain a level in his Sharingan was to kill the person closest to him: Rin. He had to kill Rin, and was peeved that Kakashi let him kill her that easily. Feeling angsty over killing Rin, he eventually killed Madara in anger and took his sharingan.

I don't think Obito killed Rin for reasons I mentioned a few days ago. Also, what would Obito have to gain from taking Madara's Sharingan? I still don't believe the theories about him being the one who gave Nagato the Rinnegan. I'm pretty sure the real Madara did that since he knew the kid and was expecting him to use Rinne Tensei to revive him.

Kamex
5th September 2012, 9:42 PM
let's rain Madara from the sky then have him and Obito use a sweet looking fire jutsu combination with Kamui to remind you of the real reason you read this series."
Actually, if I read it correctly, the Kamui/fire jutsu combination was from Obito alone. Naruto somehow dispelled the attack with his tails, and thereafter Madara suddenly arrived by exploding into the ground.

It does seem that there's more to Obito's back story then just Rin (whether that just includes Madara brainwashing him, I don't know). But unfortunately it seems she's the main reason for his becoming Tobi... In the panel with Obito's closeup nicely drawn, in my mind I can see him giving an alternate explanation other "you let Rin die."

Perhaps after Obito was crushed, Madara saved him and used time-travelling ninjutsu to show him the evils of the world, including Rin's death. That way he could have learned a great deal about the shinobi world, past and present, and also gain his dissatisfaction with humanity. But I still wish Kishi could give us a stronger and more unique anecdote for the creation of Tobi...

I know we still have time to get some better backstory, but I for one am quite disappointed with the fact that "the story is headed toward its final climax." I feel like some of the poor story-writing may stem from how rushed the story is starting to become.

On the other hand, however, I feel like it may be a good idea for everyone to remember all the good elements of Naruto that seem to be taken for granted. The engaging art, the mass of unique and likable characters (despite obvious problems with some of them), the mostly original story-line that keeps us all wide-eyed and eager for more no matter how much we may say we hate the series now. I agree with some of the complaints that are often brought up, but in my opinion Masashi Kishimoto isn't getting the credit he deserves!

Platinum fan.
5th September 2012, 9:44 PM
Obito hates the world because Rin died eh? Some times losing your girl is enough to trun you totally evil. Darth Vadar comes to mind...well kinda, in a sense anyway. My only hope is Obito and Rin have a strong friendship and they actually show it in some flashbacks. From what I've seen so far they look pretty close as friends so it's good for me. If it was like Sakura's shallow relationship with Sasuke and Naruto I wouldn't care to be honest. Imagine if Naruto went evil because Sakura died on Sasuke's watch. There would hardly be any emotion due to the shallowness of their love interest. Well on Sakura and Sasuke's half. I honestly don't know why Naruto loves Sakura, it's as puzzling as why Sakura loves Sasuke, but at least Naruto doesn't base his entire existance around her. But I'm getting off topic.

The Rinnegan and how Tobi got it and the thing between him giving it to Nagato is to confusing for me to even try to touch on. Combind with his connection with Madara and you'll get a headache, but I'm very interested to learn these facts now that we're reaching the climax. I wonder if Madara killed the Gokage?

Shneak
5th September 2012, 9:48 PM
- Happy 600 everybody! Here's to another 600 more!
- Flashbacks!
- I didn't think they were in some random cave when the rock crushing happened.
- Naruto, always out of the loop.
- Oh no. It better not be because Rin died.
- Motherf*cking HYPOCRITE! This is nearly the same situation with Sasuke. ANYBODY could have screwed your history and just tried to kill him. But thanks to your preventive actions, he's still alive.
- Obito using some ninjutsu~
- WHAT THE HELL.

Okay chapter. It didn't really reveal anything new in the flashbacks and the Tobi conversation. Naruto immediately wanting to kill Obito annoys me like I said above, but I understand the plot armour for it.

As for Madara, well, has he killed the Kage when we weren't looking? This almost definitely confirms Madara being Obito's teacher by just being there out of the blue, but I take back my Obito forced to kill Rin theory.

Aeon™
5th September 2012, 9:57 PM
You know, it kind of completes the student teacher cycle. The third taught Tsunade, Jirayra, and Orochimaru. One became a Main Protaganist (Kind of), one became a main antagonist, and one is tsunade. Jirayra taught the fourth, who taught kakashi, Rin, and Obito. Again, one became a Main Protagonist (Kind of), one became a main antagonist, and one is Rin. then Kakashi, the protagonist of the three... you get my point. In hind sight, this chain made it pretty obvious that Obito would end up being a major antagonist.

As for the kage... maybe he left a while ago and they're fighting a wood clone. That would explain how he's in both places at once.

Lorde
5th September 2012, 9:58 PM
And how the heck could Madara get there so fast when the Allied Army hasn't even reached them since getting on their way more then a dozen chapters ago? Alright chapter merely because this is the climax.

Well, he's Madara Uchiha. He has the Rinnegan and has probably mastered all kinds of ninjutsu including space-time techniques.

And I can't be the only one who has noticed that everyone who is bothered about the recent chapters is pulling out the "at least the manga is ending" card. Is that really their consolation? Talk about selfish. If they really have a problem with this "terrible" manga, then they should drop it as soon as possible instead of spreading negativity. Let others enjoy the manga.

Platinum fan.
5th September 2012, 10:08 PM
Maybe Rin has something to do with the Rinnegan. Rin plus evil equals the Rinnegan. Her name is even in the Rinnegan. Has anyone thrown that theory out yet?

Shneak
5th September 2012, 10:12 PM
You know, it kind of completes the student teacher cycle. The third taught Tsunade, Jirayra, and Orochimaru. One became a Main Protaganist (Kind of), one became a main antagonist, and one is tsunade. Jirayra taught the fourth, who taught kakashi, Rin, and Obito. Again, one became a Main Protagonist (Kind of), one became a main antagonist, and one is Rin. then Kakashi, the protagonist of the three... you get my point. In hind sight, this chain made it pretty obvious that Obito would end up being a major antagonist.

Sexist by Kishi, as usual.

I have a feeling Madara teleported or something. There's no way he could have gotten there normally before the ASB (unless he killed them all on the way there.)

Aeon™
5th September 2012, 10:14 PM
Oh, I figured it out! it's protagonist/antagonist/Medicalnin, not just some random girl!

Also, I have a feeling it's a space-time ninjustu combined with a wood clone, cause it would explain why we didn't see the fight end. because it didn't.

DucksGoMooful
5th September 2012, 10:30 PM
Wow Kishimoto why do you touch romance with a 10 foot stick? Like seriously it is plain terrible how Rin is implied to be the major reason Obito went bad.

Yes I acknowledge that Tobi is now Obito as this chapter confirmed from word of mouth. Well at least its heading towards its conclusion.


We couldn't even get some new flashbacks. Still disappointed in this revelation, and it all being over the death of a girl doesn't make it any better. It's actually one of the worst reasons given for turning evil in the series. At least for other characters, they turnt evil because of multiple deaths and betrayals. Seriously, what happen to the whole "emotionless" aspect that they were suppose to be being taught. And how the heck could Madara get there so fast when the Allied Army hasn't even reached them since getting on their way more then a dozen chapters ago? Alright chapter merely because this is the climax.

Wasn't it said in this chapter, not that Rin was the reason he went bad, but Rin was the reason "how come until now". I think that helps clarify the issue, although maybe I'm reading it wrong and Rin actually was the reason he went bad.

If you consider that line of thinking, Obito could've had other reasons for turning evil, but those, either alone or combined with Rin dying, prevented him from coming back. It also allows him time to train, set up his plan, etc.

multi-scale
5th September 2012, 10:33 PM
Oh, I figured it out! it's protagonist/antagonist/Medicalnin, not just some random girl!

Also, I have a feeling it's a space-time ninjustu combined with a wood clone, cause it would explain why we didn't see the fight end. because it didn't.

Makes sense, but for the purpose of this being the main fight, the Kages are probably fighting the clone and getting trashed. Hopefully this doesn't end with everyone coming to Naruto and using "Super Special Friendship Love Jutsu" to win.

Not much explanation on Obito here, but it seems like we'll learn how Rin died (although it never seemed like a huge deal anyway). Naruto seems to have a lot more on his plate now, so hopefully Bee will be getting some action. Also, what the hell are Sasuke and Orochimaru doing? The super secret scroll Suigetsu found like 4 months ago hasn't been discussed at all.

Also, in regards to the whole Rin deal, it seems like a Nagato thing. She likely died in a fight with another village, which was the trigger for Obito to realize that the whole world is nothing but people killing each other for no reason, like Yahiko and Nagato.

Joltik-Kid
5th September 2012, 11:13 PM
Um... Madara just flat out left the Kages... that's all.

Lorde
5th September 2012, 11:17 PM
Um, why did Madara have the Edo Tensei cracks on his face and arms in this chapter? He was normal after he escaped the Edo Tensei. Was this an error or could it have something to do with the Gokage battle?

Aeon™
5th September 2012, 11:24 PM
Um, why did Madara have the Edo Tensei cracks on his face and arms in this chapter? He was normal after he escaped the Edo Tensei. Was this an error or could it have something to do with the Gokage battle?

Well, I'd think that since he was revived with the Edo Tensei, the cracks would stay, even though he's no longer contracted. I didn't notice they even left to start with. Especially since he can regenerate because of it, at least I thought.

Charminions
6th September 2012, 12:53 AM
It would be pretty ballsy (and cool) if Kishi simply killed off ALL the kage, considering Madara just showed up on Tobi's side, but I know that would never happen.

iFi Salamander
6th September 2012, 1:01 AM
It would be pretty ballsy (and cool) if Kishi simply killed off ALL the kage, considering Madara just showed up on Tobi's side, but I know that would never happen.

That would not be cool. Gaara is a member of that group. :(

Aeon™
6th September 2012, 1:03 AM
It'd be cooler if Madara said he killed them to piss Naruto and Co. off.

iFi Salamander
6th September 2012, 1:10 AM
It'd be cooler if Madara said he killed them to piss Naruto and Co. off.

Can't really see like that fact would change the situation at all.

Aeon™
6th September 2012, 1:24 AM
Can't really see like that fact would change the situation at all.

Good point, they're already kind of pissed... It'd at least piss Naruto off, he doesn't know who these guys are.

uber gon
6th September 2012, 1:45 AM
At least we got to see a new fire jutsu. Would like to know its english name.

TsukiMirage
6th September 2012, 1:49 AM
Well, he's Madara Uchiha. He has the Rinnegan and has probably mastered all kinds of ninjutsu including space-time techniques.

And I can't be the only one who has noticed that everyone who is bothered about the recent chapters is pulling out the "at least the manga is ending" card. Is that really their consolation? Talk about selfish. If they really have a problem with this "terrible" manga, then they should drop it as soon as possible instead of spreading negativity. Let others enjoy the manga. I would say something like that should have been previously mentioned, but at this point that would clearly mean nothing.

The series reaching it's climax means that these revelations that are confusing will stop soon and we'll get back to the main conflict. Many people had no problems with the series before Kishi started destroying his own narrative with unneeded/unwanted plot "twist".


Wasn't it said in this chapter, not that Rin was the reason he went bad, but Rin was the reason "how come until now". I think that helps clarify the issue, although maybe I'm reading it wrong and Rin actually was the reason he went bad.

If you consider that line of thinking, Obito could've had other reasons for turning evil, but those, either alone or combined with Rin dying, prevented him from coming back. It also allows him time to train, set up his plan, etc. Rin was the reason he didn't return to Konoha, meaning she was the reason he turnt his back on the village. That's basically him becoming evil.

Crimsonlink
6th September 2012, 1:57 AM
Well, he's Madara Uchiha. He has the Rinnegan and has probably mastered all kinds of ninjutsu including space-time techniques.

And I can't be the only one who has noticed that everyone who is bothered about the recent chapters is pulling out the "at least the manga is ending" card. Is that really their consolation? Talk about selfish. If they really have a problem with this "terrible" manga, then they should drop it as soon as possible instead of spreading negativity. Let others enjoy the manga.

There is nothing wrong with questioning the author's plot making abilities when they don't agree with yours. It isn't selfish unless you expect the author to follow your own personal whims and go the direction you want the plot to go.

You can enjoy the manga all you want, let others spread the "negativity" all they want. Bleach and One Piece have to deal with it as does Naruto and all other mangas.

The fact the manga is heading towards its final conclusion brings hope to readers that everything will be resolved and this Obito is Tobi revelation will either be explained in a satisfactory way along with Naruto achieving world peace. Or it will simply end with crap explanations but still ends.

-Raiga-
6th September 2012, 2:07 AM
I think people are reading too much into rin being the reason he "turned evil". As I understand it, all he meant was that rin dying was the reason he SURVIVED. Whether that means activating his mangekyo ridiculously early or something else remains to be seen, but rin's just a piece of the puzzle(a very, very, boring and mishandled puzzle)

Kishimoto can't seem to decide when he wants to end the manga too. First the war was starting to wrap up, but then madara revelation came and made things longer. Following that he speeds through the kyuubi becoming naruto's friend, but yet drags out kabuto's story. Now the tobi battle took a while but he just threw madara in there(literally).

iFi Salamander
6th September 2012, 2:18 AM
And I can't be the only one who has noticed that everyone who is bothered about the recent chapters is pulling out the "at least the manga is ending" card. Is that really their consolation? Talk about selfish. If they really have a problem with this "terrible" manga, then they should drop it as soon as possible instead of spreading negativity. Let others enjoy the manga.

It is like a trainwreck, it is terrible, but you can't look away.

Lorde
6th September 2012, 2:59 AM
Well, I'd think that since he was revived with the Edo Tensei, the cracks would stay, even though he's no longer contracted. I didn't notice they even left to start with. Especially since he can regenerate because of it, at least I thought.

I just hope it's an error and not another retcon; we got too many of those in the last chapter, and I don't want people to jump on Kishi over something trivial like lines on a face.

Aeon™
6th September 2012, 3:07 AM
1. I think people are reading too much into rin being the reason he "turned evil". As I understand it, all he meant was that rin dying was the reason he SURVIVED. Whether that means activating his mangekyo ridiculously early or something else remains to be seen, 2. but rin's just a piece of the puzzle(a very, very, boring and mishandled puzzle)

Kishimoto can't seem to decide when he wants to end the manga too. 3. First the war was starting to wrap up, but then madara revelation came and made things longer. 4. Following that he speeds through the kyuubi becoming naruto's friend, but yet drags out kabuto's story. 5. Now the tobi battle took a while but he just threw madara in there(literally).

I put numbers into the quote.

1. how would Obito know she died? How long would he survive under all those rocks?

2. I agree with that so much.

3. That was totally on purpose, I think.

4. I didn't see a reason to make the Kurama thing longer, or the Kabuto thing shorter. They gave us the backstory we needed.

5. Well something ninja like has to happen with all this backstory. Okay, seriously, that was also on purpose.

Kamex
6th September 2012, 4:27 AM
I could be wrong, but I thought the last time we saw the Gokage vs. Madara battle, Madara mentioned how he was done messing around there and wanted to go capture the Kyuubi? I don't remember if it actually showed him leaving, but it would at least be implied that he left after making that declaration.


I didn't see a reason to make the Kurama thing longer, or the Kabuto thing shorter. They gave us the backstory we needed.
Really? I felt that Kurama's aligning itself with Naruto was pretty sudden. From the beginning of the story the Kyuubi had been an evil mass of hatred/chakra that was completely at odds with Naruto. Naruto started to make some progress with it but I didn't get the vibe that he was quite at the point of winning its friendship already... but then again I guess at this point in the story he's mastered the art of transforming enemies to friends haha.

Joltik-Kid
6th September 2012, 7:05 PM
Pretty sure Kishi said the manga is gonna go on for another year or two :) Hope you like that news you cynical criticizers

Lorde
6th September 2012, 7:51 PM
After re-reading the newest chapter, I've realized that I don't like Madara. It's obvious that he arrived to capture Naruto since he still wants the Kyuubi, but it's very likely that he'll kill Tobi too. I don't want him to die yet since there are still a ton of things he needs to explain. And of course, since Madara is here it means the Gokage were probably beaten and I don't think Kakashi, Guy, Bee and Naruto will be able to stop him. I really wish Madara had died again when Edo Tensei was released. *Sigh*

TsukiMirage
6th September 2012, 8:33 PM
4. I didn't see a reason to make the Kurama thing longer, or the Kabuto thing shorter. They gave us the backstory we needed. The Kyuubi situation needed to be longer to explain why it had a change of heart, or at least began a few arcs earlier. The way it was done in the series was pretty sudden and made little sense when it was literally shown a dozen or so chapters before that it was a mass of hatred. Not merely a beast turnt evil by abuse, but an actual mass of hatred.

iFi Salamander
6th September 2012, 8:47 PM
Pretty sure Kishi said the manga is gonna go on for another year or two :) Hope you like that news you cynical criticizers

I'll lose interest long before then if this keeps up.

Kamex
6th September 2012, 8:56 PM
Pretty sure Kishi said the manga is gonna go on for another year or two :) Hope you like that news you cynical criticizers
Are you sure he said this recently? Kishi seems to keep pushing the pace of the manga faster so I'd be surprised if he still expects so much more out of it (although I wouldn't be surprised if it went that long unintentionally).



After re-reading the newest chapter, I've realized that I don't like Madara. It's obvious that he arrived to capture Naruto since he still wants the Kyuubi, but it's very likely that he'll kill Tobi too. I don't want him to die yet since there are still a ton of things he needs to explain. And of course, since Madara is here it means the Gokage were probably beaten and I don't think Kakashi, Guy, Bee and Naruto will be able to stop him. I really wish Madara had died again when Edo Tensei was released. *Sigh*
I'm pretty sure that most of Tobi's secrets will be explained, even if it's posthumously. And I am interested in the details of his relationship with Madara, including how they met and how Madara fits in the Eye of the Moon plan. But I admit I think I liked Madara a little more before he became reanimated, or even when Tobi took that identity.

But I assume if Kakashi were to be killed, it would be extremely difficult to deal with Obito. So I wonder what Madara's planning and what Obito thinks Madara's intentions are.

Aeon™
6th September 2012, 9:22 PM
If I remember correctly, the Kurama/Naruto thing started with Naruto wanting to get rid of Kurama's hate. It also had something to do with Kurama hating Madara's guts, and something with the Sage of the Six Paths (can't remember the name used in the manga). It was something he said that Naruto made Kurama think of.

Shneak
6th September 2012, 10:58 PM
After re-reading the newest chapter, I've realized that I don't like Madara. It's obvious that he arrived to capture Naruto since he still wants the Kyuubi, but it's very likely that he'll kill Tobi too. I don't want him to die yet since there are still a ton of things he needs to explain. And of course, since Madara is here it means the Gokage were probably beaten and I don't think Kakashi, Guy, Bee and Naruto will be able to stop him. I really wish Madara had died again when Edo Tensei was released. *Sigh*

I actually expect the opposite. Madara is here for Obito's alibi. I think he may try to go after Naruto, but will capture Bee and somehow seal him quickly. Obito will be the one to extinguish Madara. Madara is too strong for the four remaining, so it would bring it back to the realm of reality. Or, y'know, the ASB could finally show up and do something.

I just have a weird feeling that Madara had something to do with Rin's death, it will come up, and Obito will destroy him.

Aeon™
6th September 2012, 11:16 PM
I actually expect the opposite. Madara is here for Obito's alibi. I think he may try to go after Naruto, but will capture Bee and somehow seal him quickly. Obito will be the one to extinguish Madara. Madara is too strong for the four remaining, so it would bring it back to the realm of reality. Or, y'know, the ASB could finally show up and do something.

I just have a weird feeling that Madara had something to do with Rin's death, it will come up, and Obito will destroy him.

Hmm... I also smell a heel face turn. But lets not forget about the ten-tails, and that it's floating around, kind of. In a weakened form, I think.

Kamex
6th September 2012, 11:42 PM
I just have a weird feeling that Madara had something to do with Rin's death, it will come up, and Obito will destroy him.
Yeah, I think it's very likely that Madara had a hand in killing Rin, if he didn't simply do it himself (perhaps that's kind of predictable). If Rin really is the main reason Obito is the man he is today, then the revelation that Madara made it happen is probably the only thing that can sway him from his goal. It would be ironic for Obito to be manipulated in this way, because he did the very same thing to get Nagato (kind of) and Sasuke on his side.

I can see them quarreling and even fighting, but I'm not so sure Obito will be able to defeat Madara. Well then again, Obito can use his jutsu to trap someone in the other dimension, but there's probably another weakness to that other than Kakashi. Perhaps Sasuke will come in at that point... every villain is an Uchiha and each of them seem to have separate goals. I bet Madara just wants to rule Konoha forever or something.

Lorde
7th September 2012, 12:59 AM
I actually expect the opposite. Madara is here for Obito's alibi. I think he may try to go after Naruto, but will capture Bee and somehow seal him quickly. Obito will be the one to extinguish Madara. Madara is too strong for the four remaining, so it would bring it back to the realm of reality. Or, y'know, the ASB could finally show up and do something.

I just have a weird feeling that Madara had something to do with Rin's death, it will come up, and Obito will destroy him.

I don't think Obito is final villain material, though. And I really don't think the all-powerful Madara would be defeated by Obito of all people. His only real talents are Kamui related jutsu, and Madara should know enough about Obito's MS to be able to avoid getting sucked into the other dimension.

And in my opinion, the Allied Shinobi don't need to be here. There isn't anyone among them who can stand up to Obito or Madara.

Platinum fan.
7th September 2012, 2:01 AM
Madara killing Obito? I haven't heard that theory before. But I'm not really pleased Madara is still around even after Edo Tensei expired. It feels like it was just a cheap way to keep him around, just like Orochimaru. I agree Obito doesn't feel like last villain stuff, but Orochimaru's chances of being the one rose a little when he was brought back to life. I still hate that choice. When a villain is killed off or sealed off I wish they would stay dead. Orochimaru's revival sickens me, I'm not even going to lie. I loved him during the main villain of part 1 but you just know they'll have to give him a insane upgrade to keep up with the current big names. Naruto, Sasuke, Killer Bee, and the Kages could all take Orochimaru down, unless he gets a cheap upgrade.

-Raiga-
7th September 2012, 2:41 AM
1. how would Obito know she died?

I honestly don't remember how she died, or if it was mentioned. Regardless, my point is that there isn't currently enough info to deduce what he was talking about when he said that.


How long would he survive under all those rocks?

Obviously there are more then enough theories around right now, but his kamui-like jutsu explains everything easily, so lets go with that.


3. That was totally on purpose, I think.

Depends on how you look at it. There's no doubt in my mind he DID originally intend for tobi to be madara. But as all these ideas came into his head, I'm sure he realized they'd cost him a few chapters to do it. Basically I think he just REALLY liked madara's design or something and wanted to include him, because as of so far, you can tell how forcefully madara has been thrown in to different stories that otherwise look well planned out.


4. I didn't see a reason to make the Kurama thing longer, or the Kabuto thing shorter. They gave us the backstory we needed.

TsukiMirage explained it as well I could. Its not a stretch to say the kyuubi is(or was at least) what the entire story was based on, and for him to just decide to COMPLETELY trust his entire power to naruto that quickly......its just distasteful. Kabuto's story on the other hand I was fine with, but many others complained about it so I threw it in my statement.

@MiGo
7th September 2012, 3:55 AM
I do wonder how Orochimaru is going to fit into all of this....And i do agree that he SHOULD have stayed sealed. It fit so right with the whole Itachi VS Sasuke battle. Sasuke and co. have not been shown since they were about to leave the cave i think, and really getting curious bout that whole situation....Also, I wonder what Kishi is planning to do with Karin. She was last seen in that mental prison or whatever right?

Crimsonlink
7th September 2012, 4:07 AM
I don't think Obito is final villain material, though. And I really don't think the all-powerful Madara would be defeated by Obito of all people. His only real talents are Kamui related jutsu, and Madara should know enough about Obito's MS to be able to avoid getting sucked into the other dimension.

And in my opinion, the Allied Shinobi don't need to be here. There isn't anyone among them who can stand up to Obito or Madara.

I hope the Allied Shinobi alliance gets there and Sakura ends up dying at Madara's hands. That would make up the latest chapters. :p

Banana Knight Arthur
7th September 2012, 4:43 AM
Madara killing Obito? I haven't heard that theory before. But I'm not really pleased Madara is still around even after Edo Tensei expired. It feels like it was just a cheap way to keep him around, just like Orochimaru. I agree Obito doesn't feel like last villain stuff, but Orochimaru's chances of being the one rose a little when he was brought back to life. I still hate that choice. When a villain is killed off or sealed off I wish they would stay dead. Orochimaru's revival sickens me, I'm not even going to lie. I loved him during the main villain of part 1 but you just know they'll have to give him a insane upgrade to keep up with the current big names. Naruto, Sasuke, Killer Bee, and the Kages could all take Orochimaru down, unless he gets a cheap upgrade.

Now that Madara has joined up with Obito, can I assume the Kage are all DEAD?

Madara isn't the type to go easy and leave his opponents, alive, albeit KO'ed but alive, never, ever.

TsukiMirage
7th September 2012, 8:09 AM
I hope the Allied Shinobi alliance gets there and Sakura ends up dying at Madara's hands. That would make up the latest chapters. :p Prefect, Naruto will then up becoming the next Tobi and Sasuke will have to become the main hero.

gliscor&yanmega
8th September 2012, 4:20 PM
Are you sure he said this recently? Kishi seems to keep pushing the pace of the manga faster so I'd be surprised if he still expects so much more out of it (although I wouldn't be surprised if it went that long unintentionally).

A month or so ago, yes. He said in a recent enough interview that related to someone from the Anime team asking him about how much longer Naruto was going to last, and he said it was suppose to be another 1.5 years but it's going to be more now. Something like that I believe. So 2 years is probably going to happen, maybe even more.

There's still a lot Kishi can do, as it is, Naruto and Sasuke's whole thing wouldn't be surprising if that takes a year alone. Obito and Madara still have to be dealt with. Orochimaru is around again, maybe getting a better death this time and stays dead(Or maybe he gets changed too, his parents died which drove him to this point, he needs a long overdo hug). Juubi may or may not end up having a role in the story, it could end up being stopped before it fully awakens, which I'm sure will piss off a lot of people but...not like that's anything new, I hope it plays more of a part though, hoping Rikudo gets more of a role too, but again, might not get anything and just be kept mysterious and whatnot. Could always have an epilogue too. Who knows what else Kishi has planned, but all that would probably fit into 100 so chapters.

iFi Salamander
8th September 2012, 5:02 PM
Madara killing Obito? I haven't heard that theory before. But I'm not really pleased Madara is still around even after Edo Tensei expired. It feels like it was just a cheap way to keep him around, just like Orochimaru. I agree Obito doesn't feel like last villain stuff, but Orochimaru's chances of being the one rose a little when he was brought back to life. I still hate that choice. When a villain is killed off or sealed off I wish they would stay dead. Orochimaru's revival sickens me, I'm not even going to lie. I loved him during the main villain of part 1 but you just know they'll have to give him a insane upgrade to keep up with the current big names. Naruto, Sasuke, Killer Bee, and the Kages could all take Orochimaru down, unless he gets a cheap upgrade.

Orochimaru could hold his own to Bee and could beat Sasuke before he got all the generic power boosts. He could also beat Tsunade, Mei, and A.

Crimsonlink
8th September 2012, 7:00 PM
Orochimaru could hold his own to Bee and could beat Sasuke before he got all the generic power boosts. He could also beat Tsunade, Mei, and A.

What am I reading here? You know how far behind Orochimaru was left behind not to mention nerfed compared to the other kage level ninjas?

Once Jiraiya showed his Sage Mode most people agreed he was the strongest of the Sannin and not to mention his stats are highest in the data books.

Tsunade has a better healing ability than anyone except Senju Hashirama.

A could run circles around Oro and fought with Minato multiple time and survived.

Mei could literally melt away Oro.

I don't even have to mention Onoki.

Even Gaara wouldn't have much trouble considering his sand abilities.

All in all Orochimaru has become a minor character unless Kishi forces him to come back into the plot.

iFi Salamander
8th September 2012, 9:15 PM
What am I reading here? You know how far behind Orochimaru was left behind not to mention nerfed compared to the other kage level ninjas?

Once Jiraiya showed his Sage Mode most people agreed he was the strongest of the Sannin and not to mention his stats are highest in the data books.

Tsunade has a better healing ability than anyone except Senju Hashirama.

A could run circles around Oro and fought with Minato multiple time and survived.

Mei could literally melt away Oro.

I don't even have to mention Onoki.

Even Gaara wouldn't have much trouble considering his sand abilities.

All in all Orochimaru has become a minor character unless Kishi forces him to come back into the plot.

I am talking about full power Orochimaru. That being him without all the seals and still having his arms. He was keeping up with Tsunade while completely unable to use jutsu in the beginning of the series. He was fighting par on par with 4 tail chakra cloak Naruto (And one tail was enough to finish Jiraiya off.) Sasuke only absorbed him when he did because his soul was rejecting the body and he was on his deathbed. He is also the one who killed Hiruzen.

A might do okay, but A is so stupid I think he could beat him with pure intelligence.

Oonoki and Gaara would win.

Mei just sucks all around.

You also need to take into account that Orochimaru is said to have mastered over 1000 jutsu.

Lorde
8th September 2012, 11:04 PM
Now that Madara has joined up with Obito, can I assume the Kage are all DEAD?

Madara isn't the type to go easy and leave his opponents, alive, albeit KO'ed but alive, never, ever.

I doubt Madara killed the Gokage. I think it's more likely that he just left. Onoki wanted to stop him, but I doubt Madara bothered to finish them off since they were "unsightly."

Crimsonlink
9th September 2012, 12:45 AM
I am talking about full power Orochimaru. That being him without all the seals and still having his arms. He was keeping up with Tsunade while completely unable to use jutsu in the beginning of the series. He was fighting par on par with 4 tail chakra cloak Naruto (And one tail was enough to finish Jiraiya off.) Sasuke only absorbed him when he did because his soul was rejecting the body and he was on his deathbed. He is also the one who killed Hiruzen.

A might do okay, but A is so stupid I think he could beat him with pure intelligence.

Oonoki and Gaara would win.

Mei just sucks all around.

You also need to take into account that Orochimaru is said to have mastered over 1000 jutsu.

O_o the sheer inaccurate stuff I'm reading is mind-boggling.

1. Its called plot power as Tsunade was left useless with blood on her face and Jiraiya was drugged so Oro would even stand a chance.

2. 4 tails Naruto gave Jiraiya the scar. >.>^ Which shows that Jiraiya was able to subdue Naruto even in 4 tails and got a scar as a result while Oro had to run tail and hide after Bijuudama.

3. Hiruzen had to fight the 1st and 2nd Hokage and then used a suicide jutsu to try and kill Oro. He nearly succeeded if not for the poison Oro put inside him with the Kusanagi sword.

4. A is commander of the Shinobi alliance, he wouldn't be the leader if he was a *******. You are grasping at straws here.

5. Mei does suck because Kishimoto can't seem to give females a good battle. But her dual element style would destroy Orochimaru in straight up ninjutsu battle.

6. I think you are mixing up Kakashi with Orochimaru as it is specifically said that Kakashi was the one with over 1000 jutsus. We all know how terrible Kishimoto is with numbers.

iFi Salamander
9th September 2012, 2:04 AM
1. Its called plot power as Tsunade was left useless with blood on her face and Jiraiya was drugged so Oro would even stand a chance.

And again Oro had no arms or jutsu. He wouldn't even have had Manda if it wasn't for Kabuto. I don't know in what world you could ever think Tsunade>Orochimaru, all plothax aside.


2. 4 tails Naruto gave Jiraiya the scar. >.>^ Which shows that Jiraiya was able to subdue Naruto even in 4 tails and got a scar as a result while Oro had to run tail and hide after Bijuudama.

Yeah after nearly dying. Orochimaru held his own while toying with him. Albeit Jiraiya is pretty good. I did think Orochimaru and Jiraiya were pretty close in skill level, as they both had summons, and Orochimaru had pre-mature sage mode.


3. Hiruzen had to fight the 1st and 2nd Hokage and then used a suicide jutsu to try and kill Oro. He nearly succeeded if not for the poison Oro put inside him with the Kusanagi sword.

So he won? Probably the only argument you could give here is Hiruzen's old age. Though he was still claimed to be a legendary ninja.


4. A is commander of the Shinobi alliance, he wouldn't be the leader if he was a *******. You are grasping at straws here.

He is powerful, not tactical. I mean if you even watch at the meetings he just acts like a spoiled brat and flips out over everything. Even if he isn't a complete idiot and is just angsty, he is still pretty intellectually inferior to Orochimaru, who is essentially the series's evil genius.


5. Mei does suck because Kishimoto can't seem to give females a good battle. But her dual element style would destroy Orochimaru in straight up ninjutsu battle.

Edo Tensei--->GG Mei. I doubt he'd even have to get near her.


6. I think you are mixing up Kakashi with Orochimaru as it is specifically said that Kakashi was the one with over 1000 jutsus. We all know how terrible Kishimoto is with numbers.

I may be, though I know for a fact Orochimaru desired immortality so he could master every jutsu. Even if he doesn't have 1000, there is still plenty of versatility under his belt to deal with most things.

Ambre
9th September 2012, 6:36 AM
I do remember early on something that orochimaru was called the man who had mastered over a thousand justu. I think that number 1000 was used both to describe orochimaru and kakashi. It was also said that orochimaru was the person trying to master all the world's justu.
So he hass probably learned more than kakashi has copied. Just saying.

Lorde
9th September 2012, 7:59 AM
I don't recall it being stated that Orochimaru had mastered 1,000 jutsu; I'm pretty sure that was only said about Kakashi. Be that as it may, I'm sure Orochimaru knows hundreds of jutsu. However, I don't think he's all-that strong. He seemed like a real threat during Part 1, but then again, so did a lot of characters. But since Part 2 started, we've been introduced to even stronger characters, and I think Orochimaru looks like a puppy compared to some of them.

TsukiMirage
9th September 2012, 8:37 AM
My two cents about the whole Orochimaru issue, Orochimaru was considered so powerful not because of raw strength, but because of his regeneration ability and knowledge. Orochimaru has outright showed that he could survive as nothing more then chakra.

Now about who he could beat, Jiraiya couldn't even stop Orochimaru when he already had Sage Mode and Tsunade literally has nothing to take him down. Same with Ee. Mei could actually pose a threat, but I doubt she'll last very long against his Yamato form.

Platinum fan.
9th September 2012, 3:19 PM
O_o the sheer inaccurate stuff I'm reading is mind-boggling.

1. Its called plot power as Tsunade was left useless with blood on her face and Jiraiya was drugged so Oro would even stand a chance.

2. 4 tails Naruto gave Jiraiya the scar. >.>^ Which shows that Jiraiya was able to subdue Naruto even in 4 tails and got a scar as a result while Oro had to run tail and hide after Bijuudama.

3. Hiruzen had to fight the 1st and 2nd Hokage and then used a suicide jutsu to try and kill Oro. He nearly succeeded if not for the poison Oro put inside him with the Kusanagi sword.

4. A is commander of the Shinobi alliance, he wouldn't be the leader if he was a *******. You are grasping at straws here.

5. Mei does suck because Kishimoto can't seem to give females a good battle. But her dual element style would destroy Orochimaru in straight up ninjutsu battle.

6. I think you are mixing up Kakashi with Orochimaru as it is specifically said that Kakashi was the one with over 1000 jutsus. We all know how terrible Kishimoto is with numbers.

I was going to reply to iFi Salamander but you pretty much covered nearly everything I was prepared to say. Orochimaru is powerful but I doubt he could beat all the Gokage. The third Hokage was old and it was said many times through that battle that his age had worn him down when he died, that was as big a handicap as Orochimaru's sealed arms. I'll give Salamander Tsunade, Orochimaru could probably beat her, but A? I doubt it. As you said A is the leader of the ninja army, he's also very powerful being able to match both Naruto and Sasuke in battle without collapsing in battle. Orochimaru nearly drained all his chakra when he fought Four-Tailed Naruto and if he didn't retreat with Kabuto he would have died. Orochimaru isn't even in current Sasuke's league or Naruto's for that matter and I can't even see him matching Killer Bee who's Raikage level himself, so Orochimaru really isn't a big threat to any nation right now because they have at least one person to stop him. He would need a cheap upgrade to keep up and I expect him to get one soon.

Edit: Gaara could possibly beat Orochimaru, but I think he would need backup. Same with Mei. Oonoki could probably beat him alone.

Lorde
9th September 2012, 7:22 PM
Edit: Gaara could possibly beat Orochimaru, but I think he would need backup. Same with Mei. Oonoki could probably beat him alone.

I actually think Gaara's the weakest Kage in the alliance. I'm sure Onoki would be able to handle Orochimaru. He may be old, but his Dust Release technique is godly. Mei and Tsunade might have a chance at beating him in any other manga, but we all know how sexist Kishi is. And I'm sure A could beat Orochimaru with his hands tied behind his back.

Kamex
9th September 2012, 7:40 PM
To be honest at this point Orochimaru might not even get a chance to fight anyone. He's had enough chances to get back into the game, maybe now he'll come to his senses and stay out of the action and live a lonely hermit's life of peace and die! Unless he's still obsessed with immortality.

SharpedoX
9th September 2012, 8:12 PM
Honestly, I just want the manga to have a satisfying ending. Probably see someone die since in Kishi's imagination it's impossible to let go of a character. It's almost annoying. A major ninja war with no deaths. Yea, of course. That makes perfect sense. The Kages are probably in a tricky situation. Probably Madara unleashed some monumental jutsu and out of his arrogance didn't stay to see if he actually disposed of them or not.

TsukiMirage
9th September 2012, 10:07 PM
I actually think Gaara's the weakest Kage in the alliance. I'm sure Onoki would be able to handle Orochimaru. He may be old, but his Dust Release technique is godly. Mei and Tsunade might have a chance at beating him in any other manga, but we all know how sexist Kishi is. And I'm sure A could beat Orochimaru with his hands tied behind his back. I don't know, Gaara's been made pretty Op since the war begin, taking out two Edo kages on his own and helping with several others. Maybe even before if you factor in him blocking Ee's kick and Sasuke's Enton. I would rank him just after Onoki.

And I don't see what Mei, Tsunade, or Ee could ever do to damage a giant eight headed snake made of chakra.

Platinum fan.
10th September 2012, 1:43 AM
Mei could try melting it with her lava style, which I wish we could see more of. I wish we could see more of her fighting style in general. The power levels of the Kages constantly shift so it's rather difficult to say who's the strongest. Many, myself included, thought A was stronger then Tsunade, punch wise but Madara cleared it up that she is still stronger but slower. Gaara was called the weakest by most until he started getting some fights against the Edo Tensai Kages. What hurts Tsunade and Mei is they aren't getting fights that we get to see so it's difficult to know how powerful they are at times. How sexist.

Kamex
10th September 2012, 8:50 AM
Honestly, I just want the manga to have a satisfying ending. Probably see someone die since in Kishi's imagination it's impossible to let go of a character. It's almost annoying. A major ninja war with no deaths. Yea, of course. That makes perfect sense.
Jiraiya is probably the only situation where he truly let an important character die (and not come back to life or as an undead slave... yet), and I'm actually quite satisfied with how his death was handled. But you're right, other than that everyone evades death or returns somehow. But this fourth ninja world war is quite different from the ones in history... it's most of the world's shinobi vs. a few men and their army of Edo Tensei shinobi, plus so far it's only lasted about two days and one night if I'm not mistaken. So it's hard to compare this with previous wars.

Emperor Empoleon
11th September 2012, 1:32 PM
Um..Yeah

As of today...

I don't think that any of the Kage will be fighting Orochimaru...

Or anyone else for that matter


...

Madara's got to go...Seriously. Enough is enough.

lolipiece
11th September 2012, 3:09 PM
...Wow.

Madara...you're kind of a jerk.

Can someone stitch up Tsunade?

Locormus
11th September 2012, 3:14 PM
Um..Yeah

As of today...

I don't think that any of the Kage will be fighting Orochimaru...

Or anyone else for that matter


...

Madara's got to go...Seriously. Enough is enough.

Lol, Madara trolled the heck out of them!

Tsunade get twigsnapped, and is never ever ever going to get back together, and uhh.. Well, the kage that will be left are obviously still going to do something..

- Tsunade dies while saving the other four.
- Oonoki dies against Madara
- A dies against Madara while protecting Bee
- Gaara and Mei survive and make a redhaired love child...

SkyDeity
11th September 2012, 3:42 PM
So much for leaving the Gokage alone....He f***** their s*** up. Looks like this is it for Tsunade.

miles0624
11th September 2012, 3:52 PM
What the **** is this. Literally cut Tsunade in half, sent her parts flying to different parts, and everyone else just gets sliced. REALLY. Tsunade, get some stitches. Also, loved how confident Katsuyu was that Tsunade could save herself. (Which, she could save everyone else better if she herself were put toghter. Just saying.) F this chapter. I'm done.

gliscor&yanmega
11th September 2012, 4:30 PM
I enjoyed this chapter. Can't wait for the next few chapters, explanations seem to be starting.

Kages and Obito scenes were pretty gruesome. Don't really remember the most recent before those.

Joltik-Kid
11th September 2012, 5:44 PM
Oh wow... just... wow

Pretty cool chapter, but I'm speechless beyond that

TsukiMirage
11th September 2012, 5:57 PM
While taking down the Kages was the right move, I can't help but think they'll still not be dead, meaning we'll still won't have any named deaths yet. Well, Tsunade looks like she's about to sacrifice herself, so I suppose there's still hope. Madara's fan continues to be awesome, and Madara somehow preventing/delaying the Bijuu Rasengan from exploding was cool. Madara and Obito still seem too close for my liking, but at least we're beginning to learn what had went down. Hopefully we get more flashbacks next chapter. Pretty good chapter.

Platinum fan.
11th September 2012, 6:07 PM
Man, poor Kages. Poor Tsunade, the Hokage got ripped in half. If this is the end of Tsunade I hope she can save Gaara, A, Mei, and Oonoki. Tsunade might not have been the most relevant character in part 2, but she deserves a heroes death. I guess nothing can stop the power of a hax Uchiha. I'm glad they addressed that Obito wanted Nagato to use his "bring back to life jutsu thingie" for Madara. While it was pretty obvious at this point what it was for, glad it was confirmed. Madara and Obito's relationship needs to be explained and it looks like we're going to get it next chapter. I would love to see how Obito became this master planner when he couldn't even plan to meet Kakashi, Rin, and Minato at the correct meeting time. Probably to busy plotting his evil plans back then too and they take time, you know.

Joltik-Kid
11th September 2012, 6:16 PM
For those who possibly were thinking the first masked man was Madara... unless he dyed his hair, it appears that Obito was in fact the one who attacked both Naruto's parents and the Village.

Lorde
11th September 2012, 7:38 PM
So we got an early chapter this week. How strange. Anyway, I wasn't pleased about the Gokage; I thought Madara might have just left the battle without fighting them, but they're all down. I really hope Tsunade doesn't die, but things aren't looking too good. Anyway, at least this chapter gave us a peek at how Obito and Madara met.

Shadow Lucario
11th September 2012, 8:06 PM
People wanted some characters to die and this is what you get. The five Kages were slaughtered and are now teetering on death. Tsunade is more than likely going to die after she saves the other four.

uber gon
11th September 2012, 8:56 PM
So how in the **** did Hashirama beat Madara? I mean COME ON!

PokeMaster366
11th September 2012, 8:59 PM
So how in the **** did Hashirama beat Madara? I mean COME ON!

Because last time, Madara didn't have the bonus of those wood powers he used to break Tsunade in half like a twig.

Aeon™
11th September 2012, 8:59 PM
So we got an early chapter this week. How strange. Anyway, I wasn't pleased about the Gokage; I thought Madara might have just left the battle without fighting them, but they're all down. I really hope Tsunade doesn't die, but things aren't looking too good. Anyway, at least this chapter gave us a peek at how Obito and Madara met.

Yeah, guess my wood clone theory was wrong. I smell new backflash next week, this could actually be a little interesting. But I'm more curious about the fan, and when Obito and Sasuke are going to switch sides (cause you know they will). Unless they die. Or both.

EDIT: after thinking for a sec, that fan seems like the Impact Dials from one piece. For those of you who don't know what those are, they're these little shells that absorb the impact of a hit, then, if you tap your enemy with it, it cause the same amount of force that was absorbed to hit the enemy. Unless it's like the Reject Dial (which is basically a better version of the Impact Dial), but I doubt that.

gliscor&yanmega
11th September 2012, 9:37 PM
So how in the **** did Hashirama beat Madara? I mean COME ON!

No Rinnegan, no wood, no Edo Tensei benefits. Madara wasn't as strong then as he is now.

Lorde
11th September 2012, 9:51 PM
Ew, I just noticed that Tsunade's body was crushed in half. She's definitely going to die now, which sucks since we didn't get to see what her chakra natures were. I think Onoki should've died in her place; he kept getting beaten down, only to come back like three times. Kishi obviously favors him. This whole war has been an utter mess imo.

Aeon™
11th September 2012, 10:03 PM
Ew, I just noticed that Tsunade's body was crushed in half. She's definitely going to die now, which sucks since we didn't get to see what her chakra natures were. I think Onoki should've died in her place; he kept getting beaten down, only to come back like three times. Kishi obviously favors him. This whole war has been an utter mess imo.

Actually, I have a feeling she'll survive. Because this is naruto, and somebody must live after being cut in half. Who isn't Hidan. She'll be out for the count, but alive.

Kamex
11th September 2012, 10:05 PM
Guess I was wrong about Madara leaving the Kages alone. Horribly, horribly wrong. Lol.



For those who possibly were thinking the first masked man was Madara... unless he dyed his hair, it appears that Obito was in fact the one who attacked both Naruto's parents and the Village.
True, perhaps Obito was helped by the whole time-travel thing that Madara might possibly be able to do. At this point do we even have any confirmation of what kind of powers the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan affords its user?

If Obito ends up having a change of heart, I just hope it isn't too impulsive. It wouldn't make sense to make him fickle all of a sudden considering Tobi's dedication and resolve throughout his tenure as a villain...

Aeon™
11th September 2012, 10:17 PM
Guess I was wrong about Madara leaving the Kages alone. Horribly, horribly wrong. Lol.



True, perhaps Obito was helped by the whole time-travel thing that Madara might possibly be able to do. At this point do we even have any confirmation of what kind of powers the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan affords its user?

If Obito ends up having a change of heart, I just hope it isn't too impulsive. It wouldn't make sense to make him fickle all of a sudden considering Tobi's dedication and resolve throughout his tenure as a villain...

Anything that was done by "Tobi" was done by Obito. Also, the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan affords the same powers of the Mangekyou Sharingan, minus the amazing power of blindness, I think.

DucksGoMooful
11th September 2012, 10:29 PM
Oh snap, today's chapter was awesome! This kind of chapter is one that I like a lot, because it has plot stuff but also some action. And Naruto got super mad at Madara.

What are the theories surrounding the guy at the end of the chapter? Nagato? Madara? Someone else?

gliscor&yanmega
11th September 2012, 10:40 PM
What are the theories surrounding the guy at the end of the chapter? Nagato? Madara? Someone else?

It's Madara. It looks like Nagato at first glance(At less to me and a few others I've seen mention it), but when you give him another look and think what actually makes sense, it's Madara. It's not stated, but it's pretty obvious that it's him.

Shneak
11th September 2012, 10:47 PM
- Stealth chapter!
- They're all gone. To a better place.
- OH MY GOD. I posted that point above before I saw the next page. How nice to get killed off-screen.
- NOO. Tsunade got bisected BY A TREE.
- Whoa, so Nagato was supposed to revive Madara during the Invasion of Pain. The manga would be incredibly different if he did that instead of reviving Konoha.
- Haha, Madara's annoyed that basically every Akatsuki member betrayed them.
- Madara's fan is more hax than Tenten's fan.
- Jesus, Old Madara is terrifying. If that is him... why was he revived so young then?

Heavy chapter. Definitely included some interesting developments. It kind of sucks to see the Kages defeated AFTER the fight, but I'm just worried about them now. No way Tsunade survives this.

Kamex
11th September 2012, 10:51 PM
Anything that was done by "Tobi" was done by Obito.
Right, that's why I'm saying that it wouldn't make sense for him to switch sides very easily. The current unmasked Tobi is showing slight emotion and thoughtfulness, almost as though to foreshadow his eventual aligning with the "good guys", but since Tobi was so set on achieving his goals all this time, Kishi would have to make his change of heart believable, which would be difficult if it ends up being complete and clean-cut like the Kyuubi's was.


Also, the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan affords the same powers of the Mangekyou Sharingan, minus the amazing power of blindness, I think.
Hm, really? I guess that makes sense, I don't know why I just assumed the EMS gave you extra abilities...


It's Madara. It looks like Nagato at first glance(At less to me and a few others I've seen mention it), but when you give him another look and think what actually makes sense, it's Madara. It's not stated, but it's pretty obvious that it's him.
Not to mention the Sharingan. He can't be Nagato, haha.

gliscor&yanmega
11th September 2012, 11:19 PM
- Stealth chapter!
- They're all gone. To a better place.
- OH MY GOD. I posted that point above before I saw the next page. How nice to get killed off-screen.
- NOO. Tsunade got bisected BY A TREE.
- Whoa, so Nagato was supposed to revive Madara during the Invasion of Pain. The manga would be incredibly different if he did that instead of reviving Konoha.
- Haha, Madara's annoyed that basically every Akatsuki member betrayed them.
- Madara's fan is more hax than Tenten's fan.
- Jesus, Old Madara is terrifying. If that is him... why was he revived so young then?

Heavy chapter. Definitely included some interesting developments. It kind of sucks to see the Kages defeated AFTER the fight, but I'm just worried about them now. No way Tsunade survives this.

None of the Kages are actually dead at the moment, and most likely the only one to die would be Tsunade saving the others like she said she was going to do.

It's not mentioned when Nagato was suppose to revive Madara, he was just suppose to revive him, probably wasn't meant for that point of time.

Tenten doesn't have the fan anymore(Wasn't her's to begin with).

Kabuto mentioned he brought Madara back in his prime, so that's why, he's a special case.


Not to mention the Sharingan. He can't be Nagato, haha.

That too. Could have just bought contacts though :3 Still, he does look a lot like Nagato after he used Rinne Tensei.

Lorde
12th September 2012, 12:29 AM
I'm just glad that this chapter pretty much confirms that Obito was the one who was controlling the previous Mizukage since the Madara from this flashback was old and the "Madara" from Kisame's past was young.

Shneak
12th September 2012, 1:34 AM
None of the Kages are actually dead at the moment, and most likely the only one to die would be Tsunade saving the others like she said she was going to do.

Tenten doesn't have the fan anymore(Wasn't her's to begin with).

Kabuto mentioned he brought Madara back in his prime, so that's why, he's a special case.



Yeah, I know they're playing possum. I fully expect Tsunade to give her life to save them. It makes it easy for Naruto or Kakashi to walk into the position right after the war.

Aha. I wish it was Tenten's. I'll pretend it is.

That's bs. I swear, that duo is Kabuto/Orochimaru are bull. It's likely that Orochimaru (and Sasuke) will be the only ones that can stop Madara. In a weird twisty way, that would sort of redeem him.

pwnswitchclik
12th September 2012, 2:12 AM
My fellow narufreaks, it happened again:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7_mibA5HYU

-Raiga-
12th September 2012, 2:24 AM
Not to mention the Sharingan. He can't be Nagato, haha.

Well, given that the rinnegan "lies beyond" the sharingan according to madara, anything's possible.... Not that I disagree haha

waffle_x_v
12th September 2012, 2:39 AM
Interesting... So madara was alive for that long. wonder how he died.

HoennMaster
12th September 2012, 7:06 AM
The English dubbers are going to love this bit when the episode for this chapter comes out....

I honestly don't think Tsunade is going to die. I'm no doctor, but no one should be able to survive that, and if Tsunade can, and heal the other four Kages, I think she can pull through. I hope she does. I know everyone else wants her to die, but I don't. Onoki or A should, it would be better story IMO.

Platinum fan.
12th September 2012, 3:42 PM
It's not that I don't like Tsunade, but she doesn't bring anything to the story anymore. I'd actually see her die before the other Kages. Mei hasn't done enough that her death would be anything important, and sadly she probably never will. Gaara is young and already died once, so I expect him to be Kazekage for many years after the war. Oonoki and A are half and half. On one had you do have someone to replace A in his village and that is Killer Bee and Oonoki has hinted to die in a heroic way all during the Madara fight. Tsunade's death would have the most impact or at least it would if Orochimaru had stayed dead, it would signal the age of sannin officially over, despite the fact that all three of them have been surpassed. Still it's a shame Sakura never even got close to Tsunade level if she does die. If Tsunade does die it would have been great to see Sakura at least be somewhat equal with her to pass the torch, but Naruto is against strong females. It's why some of the coolest ones like Kushina and Konan are dead right now.

TsukiMirage
12th September 2012, 6:33 PM
People wanted some characters to die and this is what you get. The five Kages were slaughtered and are now teetering on death. Tsunade is more than likely going to die after she saves the other four. Still to soon to call it. Last time Kishi killed some characters, he ended up reviving them several chapters later. And those were mostly fodder who added nothing to the story. Til I see a eulogy, I'm not counting them out just yet.


- Jesus, Old Madara is terrifying. If that is him... why was he revived so young then? Kabuto purposely revived him in his prime.


I'm just glad that this chapter pretty much confirms that Obito was the one who was controlling the previous Mizukage since the Madara from this flashback was old and the "Madara" from Kisame's past was young. Still gonna need a good explanation, seeing as the Mizukage and "bloody mist" era should have actually been over by the time Obito "died".

darkpitofdoom
12th September 2012, 7:40 PM
I'm in all honesty, kind of sad that Obito is Tobi... It doesn't explain how he gave Nagato the Rinnegan considering how Obito wouldn't have been born by the time Nagato used the Rinnegan for the first time. Another thing, I don't understand how Obito, at his age, was able to take on Minato without much struggle. And then the new chapter comes out and basically just confirms he's Obito even more... I just don't like the idea of Tobi being Obito... it would have made more sense to me f he was Izuna... I think Kishimoto needs to give more explanation, less plot holes, and longer chapters... I hope I wasn't too confusing. :I

Lorde
12th September 2012, 7:53 PM
I'm in all honesty, kind of sad that Obito is Tobi... It doesn't explain how he gave Nagato the Rinnegan considering how Obito wouldn't have been born by the time Nagato used the Rinnegan for the first time. Another thing, I don't understand how Obito, at his age, was able to take on Minato without much struggle. And then the new chapter comes out and basically just confirms he's Obito even more... I just don't like the idea of Tobi being Obito... it would have made more sense to me f he was Izuna... I think Kishimoto needs to give more explanation, less plot holes, and longer chapters... I hope I wasn't too confusing. :I

We've discussed this before. Tobi was still pretending to be Madara when he told Konan that he gave Nagato the Rinnegan. Given that Madara knew Nagato, it's far more likely that he gave his Rinnegan to him shortly before his death. Also, Tobi didn't have an easy time against Minato. Minato was able to counter Tobi's Kamui easily and Tobi ran away with his tail between his legs. It's the Kyuubi that Minato struggled with the most since it was causing the most damage to the village. And why do people say it would've made more sense if Tobi was Izuna? The guy wasn't even named in the actual manga; that's how irrelevant he was. We had to wait for the third databook to get his name. And speaking of which, that same book confirmed that he died (Madara confirmed this as well in the manga shortly after he was reincarnated). So to me, it made a bit more sense for Tobi to be Obito since we never actually saw him die as opposed to Izuna, whose death was confirmed at least twice. Let's not pretend that Tobi being Izuna would have made everything fine and dandy when in actuality, it would've caused several plot-holes as well.

Kamex
12th September 2012, 8:40 PM
It's not that I don't like Tsunade, but she doesn't bring anything to the story anymore. I'd actually see her die before the other Kages. Mei hasn't done enough that her death would be anything important, and sadly she probably never will. Gaara is young and already died once, so I expect him to be Kazekage for many years after the war. Oonoki and A are half and half. On one had you do have someone to replace A in his village and that is Killer Bee and Oonoki has hinted to die in a heroic way all during the Madara fight. Tsunade's death would have the most impact or at least it would if Orochimaru had stayed dead, it would signal the age of sannin officially over, despite the fact that all three of them have been surpassed. Still it's a shame Sakura never even got close to Tsunade level if she does die. If Tsunade does die it would have been great to see Sakura at least be somewhat equal with her to pass the torch, but Naruto is against strong females. It's why some of the coolest ones like Kushina and Konan are dead right now.
I agree. Also, like someone mentioned earlier, Tsunade's death means a new Hokage can replace her, probably Kakashi or Naruto (though I'm leaning towards Naruto at this point...).


We've discussed this before. Tobi was still pretending to be Madara when he told Konan that he gave Nagato the Rinnegan. Given that Madara knew Nagato, it's far more likely that he gave his Rinnegan to him shortly before his death.
That would be interesting because it implies that Madara is the only shinobi known to naturally gain the Rinnegan, other than the Sage of the Six Paths himself.

As for Obito's association with all of Tobi's past acts, I'm sure Madara had something to do with it (whether or not time-travel is an option, I don't know). In any case we'll get some answers soon enough. Unless Tobi being Obito really was a decision made recently by Kishi, I would like to assume he planned out how Obito was able to affect history despite his age.

HoennMaster
12th September 2012, 11:55 PM
It's not that I don't like Tsunade, but she doesn't bring anything to the story anymore. I'd actually see her die before the other Kages. Mei hasn't done enough that her death would be anything important, and sadly she probably never will. Gaara is young and already died once, so I expect him to be Kazekage for many years after the war. Oonoki and A are half and half. On one had you do have someone to replace A in his village and that is Killer Bee and Oonoki has hinted to die in a heroic way all during the Madara fight. Tsunade's death would have the most impact or at least it would if Orochimaru had stayed dead, it would signal the age of sannin officially over, despite the fact that all three of them have been surpassed. Still it's a shame Sakura never even got close to Tsunade level if she does die. If Tsunade does die it would have been great to see Sakura at least be somewhat equal with her to pass the torch, but Naruto is against strong females. It's why some of the coolest ones like Kushina and Konan are dead right now.

Characters shouldn't just be killed off because they "bring nothing to the story" though. A or Onoki dying would make more sense to me because they've always had a iron clad view on the world and them dying changed, cliche as hell, would be better IMO. Plus, I've always wanted to see at least one Hokage not die in the line of duty and I personally would love to see Tsunade hand of the Hokage title to Naruto.

iFi Salamander
13th September 2012, 2:08 AM
This week was actually pretty good. Madara being the king as usual with funny sarcasm. Also it appears as if he revived Obito with the Rinne Rebirth so all of a sudden everything in the story actually is starting to make sense. About the only thing that needs explaining now is how he twisted Obito so quickly.

I am just going to go ahead and say Madara took Obito under his wing to finish the revival of the Juubi as he knew his death was soon approaching, so he used the Rinne Rebirth on Obito. After Madara's death Obito gave Nagato as a young child, the Rinnegan at some point. Knowing how Nagato would grow up and that he would survive due to his ability of the sixth paths. Then he used Nagato in an attempt to not only help revive the Juubi, but use the Rinne Six Paths to revive the real Madara at some point. This would also explain why Tobi took on the alias "Madara" as if some kind of predecessor to his ideals.. However Nagato swayed by Naruto's resolve betrayed Tobi and therefore slowed the plan.

So he sought out Kabuto's help to finish the capturing of the beasts but grew impatient so he released the Juubi prematurely.

TsukiMirage
13th September 2012, 9:52 AM
Actually, from the way it's looking, the whole "Madara giving Nagato his Rinnegan" is looking impossible if Madara was alive during the Third War. So there is seemingly another method to gain the Rinnegan aside from combining Mokuton+Sharingan.

Platinum fan.
13th September 2012, 3:27 PM
Actually, from the way it's looking, the whole "Madara giving Nagato his Rinnegan" is looking impossible if Madara was alive during the Third War. So there is seemingly another method to gain the Rinnegan aside from combining Mokuton+Sharingan.

Time travel no jutsu. I can totally see Madara trolling with that move. While I'm sure that's not what's going to happen it could still be possible, it would be really, really cheap but Madara is a really, really cheap character.

iFi Salamander
13th September 2012, 3:51 PM
Time travel no jutsu. I can totally see Madara trolling with that move. While I'm sure that's not what's going to happen it could still be possible, it would be really, really cheap but Madara is a really, really cheap character.

It actually doesn't seem all that farfetched to assume Tobi could have given him Madara's Rinnegan. We can assume Obitobi is about 30-31 now, and we don't know Nagato's real age but if he was about 25-26 when he died it actually sort of makes sense that he could have gotten the Rinnegan as a gift.

Joltik-Kid
13th September 2012, 6:33 PM
I think someone does have to die in this war...otherwise it's just good guys vs bad guys. Also, I just realized that not even the characters in the story seem to care about Yamato, kind like like that expect that he's dead

Lorde
13th September 2012, 7:10 PM
Actually, from the way it's looking, the whole "Madara giving Nagato his Rinnegan" is looking impossible if Madara was alive during the Third War. So there is seemingly another method to gain the Rinnegan aside from combining Mokuton+Sharingan.

The timeline is already messed up though. So I don't think it matters when Madara was alive; I'm pretty sure he was personally responsible for Nagato's Rinnegan.


I think someone does have to die in this war...otherwise it's just good guys vs bad guys. Also, I just realized that not even the characters in the story seem to care about Yamato, kind like like that expect that he's dead

A lot of characters need to die in this war, but it sucks that the first one to die is going to be Tsunade. I thought she'd survive since she already went through a near death experience, but Kishi seems keen on killing her to save his precious Gaara and the others. Also, I think the Alliance does think Yamato is dead since he was taken to "Madara's" lair.

TsukiMirage
13th September 2012, 11:11 PM
It actually doesn't seem all that farfetched to assume Tobi could have given him Madara's Rinnegan. We can assume Obitobi is about 30-31 now, and we don't know Nagato's real age but if he was about 25-26 when he died it actually sort of makes sense that he could have gotten the Rinnegan as a gift. Nagato's older then Obito. He was ten during the Second War and in his late teens during the Third War.


The timeline is already messed up though. So I don't think it matters when Madara was alive; I'm pretty sure he was personally responsible for Nagato's Rinnegan. Madara himself stated he died soon after awakening the Rinnegan. But as you said, the timeline's already mess up so who knows.

Platinum fan.
14th September 2012, 4:35 AM
Yamato is just floating around like Karin, in the 'Characters we still have but don't know how to use yet' category. I doubt he's dead. I hope not. I liked Yamato, maybe he goes the way of Anko. Where the fate of the character is on again off again between life and death.

gliscor&yanmega
14th September 2012, 4:04 PM
Yamato is just floating around like Karin, in the 'Characters we still have but don't know how to use yet' category. I doubt he's dead. I hope not. I liked Yamato, maybe he goes the way of Anko. Where the fate of the character is on again off again between life and death.

I think Kishi knows what he's going to do with them, they just haven't gotten their time. Karin was last seen attempting to break out of jail so, she's bound to come back, we just don't know for sure what she has on mind. Yamato isn't in a position to do anything at the moment considering he's knocked out in the Hashirama wall. He's not dead though, it was made clear he'd be alive to power up the White Zetsu Clone Army. Currently he's in probably the best position oddly enough, there isn't really anyone around to kill him, so it's not like he'll meet an end where he is right now.

The only reason Yamato hasn't been given any attention is because there's nothing to give. He's knocked out. There's a war going on, so he's not top priority, as bad as that may sound, the Alliance has to worry more about saving the world then saving one person. It probably wouldn't be easy getting to his location anyways.

-Raiga-
14th September 2012, 10:03 PM
Unless your a main character, you have NO place in this war. Even then people like Bee get the momentum rug pulled from under their feet for no reason.

Conversely, extreme nobodies like Darui got focus put on them, though there are a TON of other ninjas people would like to see fight. Primarily the kages of course.

Lorde
14th September 2012, 11:26 PM
Yamato is just floating around like Karin, in the 'Characters we still have but don't know how to use yet' category. I doubt he's dead. I hope not. I liked Yamato, maybe he goes the way of Anko. Where the fate of the character is on again off again between life and death.

Maybe part of Hashirama's soul is inside Yamato and he'll be revived à la Orochimaru. I actually hope that happens; a rematch between Madara and Hashirama would be amazing.

PokeMaster366
15th September 2012, 1:18 AM
Maybe part of Hashirama's soul is inside Yamato and he'll be revived à la Orochimaru. I actually hope that happens; a rematch between Madara and Hashirama would be amazing.

That won't happen thanks to Sarutobi sealing him away with the Reaper Death Seal.

Shneak
15th September 2012, 6:09 AM
Maybe part of Hashirama's soul is inside Yamato and he'll be revived à la Orochimaru. I actually hope that happens; a rematch between Madara and Hashirama would be amazing.

God, I hope not. Then again, it could be the only person that could kill Madara. Not to mention Madara wearing Hashirama's face anyway.

Lorde
15th September 2012, 8:11 AM
That won't happen thanks to Sarutobi sealing him away with the Reaper Death Seal.

Well Itachi's Sword of Totsuka sealed away part of Orochimaru's soul, but the earthbound portion of his soul that was sealed in Anko's curse mark was enough to revive him. I think the same could be possible for Hashirama. Or if a complete reincarnation of Hashirama isn't possible, I at least hope that the portion of Hashirama's body that Madara has starts to take control in a similar manner to how Orochimaru's flesh was trying to control Kabuto's body.

Prohawk
15th September 2012, 8:41 AM
I hope Kishi actually does kill of some characters. Throughout this entire war no really important characters have actually died (obviously the edo's don't count). And I mean confirmed dead. Ever since the Pain Arc, I've been a bit disappointed in Kishi's inability to provide any shock factor

TsukiMirage
15th September 2012, 9:21 AM
Well Itachi's Sword of Totsuka sealed away part of Orochimaru's soul, but the earthbound portion of his soul that was sealed in Anko's curse mark was enough to revive him. I think the same could be possible for Hashirama. Or if a complete reincarnation of Hashirama isn't possible, I at least hope that the portion of Hashirama's body that Madara has starts to take control in a similar manner to how Orochimaru's flesh was trying to control Kabuto's body. To be fair though, Orochimaru had purposely split his soul into pieces for future revival, whereas there's nothing to suggest that Hashirama ever took any such precaution.

Prohawk
15th September 2012, 9:38 AM
To be fair though, Orochimaru had purposely split his soul into pieces for future revival, whereas there's nothing to suggest that Hashirama ever took any such precaution.

Also it doesn't really fit into the theme of leaving the shinobi job to the next generation. He wouldn't do that if he didn't believe the younger ninjas could look after themselves

PokeMaster366
15th September 2012, 2:37 PM
To be fair though, Orochimaru had purposely split his soul into pieces for future revival, whereas there's nothing to suggest that Hashirama ever took any such precaution.

Hmmm...A ninja that made a contract with snakes and split his soul apart so that he won't die easily.

...

Nope. Definitely doesn't sound like something that came out of Harry Potter.

JJDalts
15th September 2012, 4:00 PM
Hmmm...A ninja that made a contract with snakes and split his soul apart so that he won't die easily.

...

Nope. Definitely doesn't sound like something that came out of Harry Potter.

Sasuke Uchiha, the boy who haxed.....come to die!

xD

Lorde
15th September 2012, 6:49 PM
To be fair though, Orochimaru had purposely split his soul into pieces for future revival, whereas there's nothing to suggest that Hashirama ever took any such precaution.

I don't think Hashirama had to split his soul per se. I think it's more likely that his cells retain his life force and could therefore have a will of their own. I think the cells that Madara took from Hashirama could turn against him at some point, similar to how Danzo lost control of Hashirama's cells before. It could symbolize Hashirama's return and dominance.

PokeMaster366
16th September 2012, 1:07 AM
I don't think Hashirama had to split his soul per se. I think it's more likely that his cells retain his life force and could therefore have a will of their own. I think the cells that Madara took from Hashirama could turn against him at some point, similar to how Danzo lost control of Hashirama's cells before. It could symbolize Hashirama's return and dominance.

It kind of makes you hope that Naruto gets infused with Hashirama's blood and gains some of his power, doesn't it?

...

Nah, enough ridiculous and overpowered things have already happened in this show.

TsukiMirage
16th September 2012, 2:32 AM
I don't think Hashirama had to split his soul per se. I think it's more likely that his cells retain his life force and could therefore have a will of their own. I think the cells that Madara took from Hashirama could turn against him at some point, similar to how Danzo lost control of Hashirama's cells before. It could symbolize Hashirama's return and dominance. Well if that was the case, then the clone inwhich they took his Dna from should possess a consciousness. Which honestly would be more preferred to Madara's skin suddenly coming to life.


http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/557305_277019359075908_1257342563_n.jpg

Shneak
16th September 2012, 3:13 AM
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/557305_277019359075908_1257342563_n.jpg

He probably got kidnapped into Madara's Kamui dimension. Young Uchiha boys need to be careful.

Prohawk
16th September 2012, 5:48 AM
Well if that was the case, then the clone inwhich they took his Dna from should possess a consciousness. Which honestly would be more preferred to Madara's skin suddenly coming to life.


http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/557305_277019359075908_1257342563_n.jpg

Haha that is brilliant

funrush
16th September 2012, 10:14 PM
I just started to get back into the manga, what's this about Tobi being Obito? Has my prediction from 2009 come true?

7 tyranitars
16th September 2012, 10:18 PM
Hmmm...A ninja that made a contract with snakes and split his soul apart so that he won't die easily.

...

Nope. Definitely doesn't sound like something that came out of Harry Potter.

Those where my thoughts.


Well if that was the case, then the clone inwhich they took his Dna from should possess a consciousness. Which honestly would be more preferred to Madara's skin suddenly coming to life.


http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/557305_277019359075908_1257342563_n.jpg

Lol :P

Prohawk
17th September 2012, 12:15 AM
I just started to get back into the manga, what's this about Tobi being Obito? Has my prediction from 2009 come true?

Everyone's prediction*

Lorde
17th September 2012, 12:46 AM
Everyone's prediction*

Not everyone predicted this. A lot of people didn't even take time to consider the possibility that Tobi was Obito because they claimed that it was "too obvious." They even went out of their way to make convoluted theories; my favorite was the future Sasuke theory. Maybe it's just because I have simple tastes, but I always wanted Tobi to be Obito because it seemed like the easiest scenario for Kishi to explain. I always thought that Rin's death had unhinged Obito and that he became a villain because of that. Although to be frank, I don't think Obito is "evil" per se. I just think he wants to create a world where he doesn't have to face reality.

Platinum fan.
17th September 2012, 12:57 AM
Not everyone predicted this. A lot of people didn't even take time to consider the possibility that Tobi was Obito because they claimed that it was "too obvious." They even went out of their way to make convoluted theories; my favorite was the future Sasuke theory. Maybe it's just because I have simple tastes, but I always wanted Tobi to be Obito because it seemed like the easiest scenario for Kishi to explain. I always thought that Rin's death had unhinged Obito and that he became a villain because of that. Although to be frank, I don't think Obito is "evil" per se. I just think he wants to create a world where he doesn't have to face reality.

Hey, that future Sasuke theory was golden! Look how it caught on! Nobody even mentioned the possible idea it could be a alternate future Sasuke on this forum until I tossed it out there. As much as I hated the idea of time travel I'm proud of that stupid future Sasuke theory, even if it was beyond stupid.

gliscor&yanmega
17th September 2012, 2:47 AM
Not everyone predicted this. A lot of people didn't even take time to consider the possibility that Tobi was Obito because they claimed that it was "too obvious." They even went out of their way to make convoluted theories; my favorite was the future Sasuke theory. Maybe it's just because I have simple tastes, but I always wanted Tobi to be Obito because it seemed like the easiest scenario for Kishi to explain. I always thought that Rin's death had unhinged Obito and that he became a villain because of that. Although to be frank, I don't think Obito is "evil" per se. I just think he wants to create a world where he doesn't have to face reality.

Also, most of the people who were predicting Tobi being Obito ended up turning on it once things started changing(Tobi revealing himself as Madara). In the end, most people probably were convinced it wasn't Obito regardless if they once thought it before or not.

I once thought it was Obito myself, but then like most, went against that, although it took me longer to really turn on it. Kishi didn't really make it shocking with the recent chapters leading up to it though, although the fact it was so obvious made people still doubt it. I wonder how many people actually believed 100% that Obito was Tobi for the entire time, I doubt there's really that many. And for some reason people end up complaining about this, that Kishi purposely deceived the viewers into believing Tobi was someone else or whatever, which is ridiculous because that's how mysteries work, you deceive readers into believing one thing when the actual case is something else.

I didn't really want it to be Obito, but I'm glad it is. I can't wait to see the next few chapters of explanations, I'm sure it'll be good(People will still complain though).

Lorde
17th September 2012, 3:21 AM
Also, most of the people who were predicting Tobi being Obito ended up turning on it once things started changing(Tobi revealing himself as Madara). In the end, most people probably were convinced it wasn't Obito regardless if they once thought it before or not.

I'm sure most people did turn their backs on the theory, but I think it was more due to peer pressure than anything else. Once Tobi started using Madara as his alias, everyone who thought he was someone else was basically told to keep quiet and assume that he really was Madara even though certain things didn't add up. I myself didn't believe that Tobi was really Madara, but I knew how everyone else felt, so I just called him "Madara" since that was what everyone else called him. I think the fact that Tobi still wore a mask even after "revealing" his identity was a big hint that he wasn't who he claimed to be. There were other hints as well, but the mask thing was the biggest one imo.

LizardonX
17th September 2012, 5:19 AM
So I haven't been keeping up, tobi has an identity now?

Prohawk
17th September 2012, 5:28 AM
I'm sure most people did turn their backs on the theory, but I think it was more due to peer pressure than anything else. Once Tobi started using Madara as his alias, everyone who thought he was someone else was basically told to keep quiet and assume that he really was Madara even though certain things didn't add up. I myself didn't believe that Tobi was really Madara, but I knew how everyone else felt, so I just called him "Madara" since that was what everyone else called him. I think the fact that Tobi still wore a mask even after "revealing" his identity was a big hint that he wasn't who he claimed to be. There were other hints as well, but the mask thing was the biggest one imo.

I think you've nailed it with your post. Nobody really believed he was Madara after the name came out but the mask stayed on. All in all it Tobi had to be a character who was previously introduced. Since we already know what all the major villians (previous or current) are up to, Obito was the most obvious choice. I really was hoping it would be someone else though because having Obito be Tobi just seems like a cop-out...

7 tyranitars
17th September 2012, 5:57 PM
I think you've nailed it with your post. Nobody really believed he was Madara after the name came out but the mask stayed on. All in all it Tobi had to be a character who was previously introduced. Since we already know what all the major villians (previous or current) are up to, Obito was the most obvious choice. I really was hoping it would be someone else though because having Obito be Tobi just seems like a cop-out...



There was always something fishy about him. But the way Kisame said: Madara san, sounded very strange.

Shneak
17th September 2012, 9:45 PM
So I haven't been keeping up, tobi has an identity now?

As of ~3 chapters ago.

-Raiga-
18th September 2012, 1:18 AM
I personally think kishimoto's doing a great job writing everything out after the revelation, but the problem of how farfetched this is still exists. You can tell just how much he has to force this storyline to make it work, simply saying "side-character in side story becomes final villian" just sounds wrong.

But as long as the chapter's continue to make sense, and we get some more fighting chapters on par with the last few, I could care less at this point.

Ver-mont
18th September 2012, 7:24 AM
I personally think kishimoto's doing a great job writing everything out after the revelation, but the problem of how farfetched this is still exists. You can tell just how much he has to force this storyline to make it work, simply saying "side-character in side story becomes final villian" just sounds wrong.

Well, at least he picked the least side-character option for Tobi. Izuna and Shisui were even more minor characters than Obito.

Lorde
18th September 2012, 8:23 AM
Well, at least he picked the least side-character option for Tobi. Izuna and Shisui were even more minor characters than Obito.

I know right? Izuna wasn't even named in the manga and Shisui's face wasn't shown until the Gokage Summit arc.

By the way, can we expect an early chapter this week?

TsukiMirage
18th September 2012, 10:16 AM
Honestly, I still think Izuna would have been the best choice. Not only would he have been the prefect mirror to Sasuke, but him acting out of love would have made him similar to Naruto but not a rehash of Nagato.

Locormus
18th September 2012, 4:48 PM
Honestly, I still think Izuna would have been the best choice. Not only would he have been the prefect mirror to Sasuke, but him acting out of love would have made him similar to Naruto but not a rehash of Nagato.

Who knows, what if all what Obito has told us about Izuna was a lie to sway Sasuke?

Obito was underestimated anyway.. Kakashi Gaiden wasn't just a sidestory.. It was integral to the history of the village, with the 4th Hogake's rise, Kakashi's rise and insight in the world at that time. Just because Obito supposedly died there doesn't mean that he was minor in that sense. I mean Kakashi got his sharingan from this dude. That's something that shouldn't be forgotten.

I'm willing to be that Kakashi's sharingan suddenly got MS because Obito unlocking MS by killing Rin or something! xD

Lorde
18th September 2012, 6:11 PM
Who knows, what if all what Obito has told us about Izuna was a lie to sway Sasuke?

I don't believe much of what Tobi said about Madara and Izuna, so I've suspected that Izuna wasn't exactly the angel that he was portrayed to be. I just can't see him or anyone else in the Uchiha clan being courageous enough to sacrifice their eyes for someone else (with the possible exception of Itachi). But I'm scratching my head at the fact that people think someone who was confirmed dead at least twice would've been a better candidate for being Tobi than someone who was only assumed to be dead. I blame Kishi's love for reviving the dead for theories like that.

Shadow Lucario
18th September 2012, 6:31 PM
I don't believe much of what Tobi said about Madara and Izuna, so I've suspected that Izuna wasn't exactly the angel that he was portrayed to be. I just can't see him or anyone else in the Uchiha clan being courageous enough to sacrifice their eyes for someone else (with the possible exception of Itachi). But I'm scratching my head at the fact that people think someone who was confirmed dead at least twice would've been a better candidate for being Tobi than someone who was only assumed to be dead.

This is exactly what I've been telling people. I mean we've even seen Izuna's body in a casket so there is really no way for him to be running around trying to kill everyone.


I blame Kishi's love for reviving the dead for theories like that.

You know that's only happened twice right? Edo Tensei isn't reviving the dead since they're still, well, dead. This isn't Dragon Ball Z where the same characters die and are then revived every arc.

lolipiece
19th September 2012, 12:36 AM
Does this mean that Tenten has finally surpassed Tsunade? (http://mangastream.com/read/rock_lee/59666222/28)

In terms of you-know-what.

Shneak
19th September 2012, 2:46 AM
Does this mean that Tenten has finally surpassed Tsunade? (http://mangastream.com/read/rock_lee/59666222/28)

In terms of you-know-what.

Haha. Oh, I wish Tenten got this kind of love in the manga. I would be up to seeing another Tenten vs Temari match.

Locormus
19th September 2012, 2:49 AM
Haha. Oh, I wish Tenten got this kind of love in the manga. I would be up to seeing another Tenten vs Temari match.

Lord knows she would own that skank!

Profesco
19th September 2012, 2:50 AM
Does this mean that Tenten has finally surpassed Tsunade? (http://mangastream.com/read/rock_lee/59666222/28)

In terms of you-know-what.

And then all the Konoha boys wanted to do their training with Tenten.

Lorde
19th September 2012, 8:48 AM
Oh God, what a terrible chapter. I didn't like how goofy and in-character Obito was at the start; he was injured and the whole thing felt really out of place with the rest of the chapter. Anyway, Madara's lines were redundant; just the same old stuff we've heard before. The only interesting parts were the close ups to the tree thing that Madara was sitting in front of. Honestly, this was one of the weirdest chapters for me. A total waste of time.

Kamex
19th September 2012, 9:32 AM
Oh God, what a terrible chapter. I didn't like how goofy and in-character Obito was at the start; he was injured and the whole thing felt really out of place with the rest of the chapter. Anyway, Madara's lines were redundant; just the same old stuff we've heard before. The only interesting parts were the close ups to the tree thing that Madara was sitting in front of. Honestly, this was one of the weirdest chapters for me. A total waste of time.
It does feel like not much happened... but I'm glad Kishi is at least taking his time with Obito changing his path in life, instead of having him just kinda go, "Welp, I guess you're right Madara. Let's start a utopia!!"

Also, I'm curious who Madara left his eyes to, and whether they've become the rinnegan yet. So many questions left to be answered.

TsukiMirage
19th September 2012, 9:42 AM
Who knows, what if all what Obito has told us about Izuna was a lie to sway Sasuke?

Obito was underestimated anyway.. Kakashi Gaiden wasn't just a sidestory.. It was integral to the history of the village, with the 4th Hogake's rise, Kakashi's rise and insight in the world at that time. Just because Obito supposedly died there doesn't mean that he was minor in that sense. I mean Kakashi got his sharingan from this dude. That's something that shouldn't be forgotten.

I'm willing to be that Kakashi's sharingan suddenly got MS because Obito unlocking MS by killing Rin or something! xD But like you said, the reason the gaiden was so important was due to all those other things happening. Obito had nothing beyond begin the source of Kakashi's Sharingan. Going by that logic, we would have to consider any character who showed up more then once as a potential major character...

Anyway, the current chapter was sort of boring. While it was nice to see old Obito, it just makes it that much harder to see him becoming Tobi. But it was nice to get a short explanation as to why Madara wasn't more active, but we gotten even more questions now, like who did he give his Sharingan to and how exactly could he have trained Obito when he couldn't even leave that room. Looks like there will be a third "Tobi". Alright chapter.

Ver-mont
19th September 2012, 1:13 PM
Also, I'm curious who Madara left his eyes to, and whether they've become the rinnegan yet. So many questions left to be answered.

Maybe they had already become the Rinnegan and he left them to Nagato.

7 tyranitars
19th September 2012, 1:50 PM
Hmm, couldn't it just be Madara used Izanagi to survive?

Platinum fan.
19th September 2012, 4:31 PM
This chapter was pretty *yawn* boring. I think I expected a little more out of the chapter. I actually like that Obito still had his funny personality when waking up as it would have been a little hard for me to believe he wakes up totally changed from the start, though it makes me wonder how this is going to change. Overall the chapter was meh, it was interesting seeing old man Madara wired up to...whatever it was he was wired up to, I forgot, the chapter was so boring I can't remember. Overall I hope next weeks is better. Obito looked like Danzo when bandaged up. Hmm is that Kishimoto's way of trolling everyone who thought Danzo was Tobi? Seriously how could you think Danzo was Tobi? It makes no sense and isn't cool. Now that future Sasuke idea...

Banana Knight Arthur
19th September 2012, 6:44 PM
Excellent chapter. This is what Kubo needs to read and take notes on.

We had more development on the "real" Madara's past, some comedy, and what happened immediately after Obito's accident.

Only quirk is the odd convenience of his accident happening right above where Madara was hiding.

Joltik-Kid
19th September 2012, 6:58 PM
Excellent chapter. This is what Kubo needs to read and take notes on.

We had more development on the "real" Madara's past, some comedy, and what happened immediately after Obito's accident.

Only quirk is the odd convenience of his accident happening right above where Madara was hiding.
I'll admit there are times where Bleach and Naruto lose they writing ways... today Naruto succeeded where Bleach failed, but Naruto isn't exactly the perfect story XD

Anyway, today felt boring, but it gave in site on how Obito survived. Personally I think the reason he changed over time was made clear in this chapter, as Madara said it himself, there was no escaping the room. When you locked in a room for most of your life, of coarse your views are gonna change.

Lorde
19th September 2012, 8:33 PM
Well at least we learned why Madara had to rely on Obito. He couldn't leave his base since he had to stay attached to the Gedo statue thing, and Obito was his only hope. People often argued that Madara wouldn't need someone like Obito, but Kishi provided a good explanation for why he did.

Kamex
19th September 2012, 9:53 PM
Maybe they had already become the Rinnegan and he left them to Nagato.
Actually yeah, that makes sense. If that's true, then I suppose Madara already has his plan in motion.


Only quirk is the odd convenience of his accident happening right above where Madara was hiding.
Yeah that was strange. I wonder if there's a reason behind it or if it really was just a coincidence...


Well at least we learned why Madara had to rely on Obito. He couldn't leave his base since he had to stay attached to the Gedo statue thing, and Obito was his only hope. People often argued that Madara wouldn't need someone like Obito, but Kishi provided a good explanation for why he did.
Yes, but I can't help but wonder why Madara waited until this ripe old age to do anything. Was it because he physically couldn't after his battle with Hashirama, or because he had to wait for something to happen, or because he didn't think of this plan until he was old, or something else? I suppose this will be answered eventually.

Shneak
19th September 2012, 9:57 PM
- Wrong manga, Obito.
- "Take care of your lower parts?" LOL
- So Nagato obviously adopted his philosophy from Madara.
- And apparently Obito will too.
- Old Madara is so sassy.
- Madara owns the Mazou too?
- Obito is made of Hashirama too...
- WTF @ the panel with the hanging wood corpses.
- Madara's literally a child abductor. That should be the motto for this manga: "WHAT DOES AN OLD GEEZER LIKE YOU WANT TO DO WITH A BOY!?"
- Damn, this chapter is really answering some questions.
- Ew. I wonder who's eye it is that Madara is using.

I don't get the hate for this chapter. I liked it because we FINALLY got some answers.

1. Madara gave his own eyes that unlocked the Rinnegan to Nagato for some reason. That's why he doesn't have them here and why Nagato randomly has them against the Uzumaki bloodline. (Does this work with the timeline?)
2. Madara sort of owns the Mazou. It may have been made by Hashirama, but he somehow got Hashirama's body to use it as a power source and also gave it to Nagato.
3. Obito isn't part Zetsu. He has Hashirama's cells.

Not to mention that this chapter has some dark-as-hell implications. I guess Madara kept Obito in this place for a very long time and planned the whole Akatsuki thing together.

I'm actually hoping we get some more Madara/Obito interactions. It's interesting. A flashback with Nagato would make sense too.

gliscor&yanmega
19th September 2012, 10:14 PM
I enjoyed this chapter. Madara was in a far worst condition then I thought, kind of feel bad for him.

DucksGoMooful
19th September 2012, 10:38 PM
I loved this chapter. At the moment, I don't want any action of any kind, just explanation. Now that the anger over Obito's reveal has pretty much passed, it'll be good to be clear-headed for when we actually get an explanation of why and how it happened.

Lorde
19th September 2012, 10:45 PM
I don't get the hate for this chapter. I liked it because we FINALLY got some answers.

We got some answers, but the interaction between Madara and Obito was weird, especially that part about Madara's "lower parts." It felt like a lackluster attempt on Kishi's part. I just think he could've done a better job explaining this stuff to us. Also, does anyone else think it's too convenient that Madara's secret base was underneath the Iwagakure ninja hideout? The whole thing was just silly.

Btw, Kishi admitted in WSJ that Minato's face on the Hokage Monument in chapter 599 was a mistake (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/76603-Weekly-Shonen-Jump-2012-Discussion-and-TOC-Talk?p=3034507&viewfull=1#post3034507). So that wasn't part of the retcon.

-Raiga-
20th September 2012, 12:56 AM
I just think he could've done a better job explaining this stuff to us.

Easy there, he has a LOT to explain here, while trying to keep obito's old personality in check. Personally I liked the chapter and didn't see any wasted panels...except the lower parts one, though only because the look on obito's face was dead serious when he said it.

Crimsonlink
20th September 2012, 1:48 AM
Boring chapter for the most part. Why can't Kishi make flashbacks like Kubo where they are actually good and interesting? Didn't like the attempted humor at all.

Still a lot of questions left but they are slowly being answered so I'm happy about that.

Major questions Kishi needs to answer is how Madara escaped from dying at Hashirama's hands. Even though Izanagi is the likely answer. Also whose eye is he using as a replacement? His brother's or just some random Uchiha. Then again EMS requires that Izuna give up his eyes. Also who did he give his eyes too?

Shadow Lucario
20th September 2012, 3:22 AM
Boring chapter for the most part. Why can't Kishi make flashbacks like Kubo where they are actually good and interesting? Didn't like the attempted humor at all.

...Seriously?


Major questions Kishi needs to answer is how Madara escaped from dying at Hashirama's hands. Even though Izanagi is the likely answer. Also whose eye is he using as a replacement? His brother's or just some random Uchiha. Then again EMS requires that Izuna give up his eyes. Also who did he give his eyes too?

I think Hashirama spared Madara. He doesn't seem to be the type of person to mercilessly kill someone after they've already lost everything. I am also wondering whose eye he has. I cannot think of a single Uchiha that was missing an eye. And I'm pretty sure he gave his eyes to Nagato already. About 100% sure.

Lorde
20th September 2012, 4:08 AM
Even though Izanagi is the likely answer. Also whose eye is he using as a replacement? His brother's or just some random Uchiha. Then again EMS requires that Izuna give up his eyes. Also who did he give his eyes too?

Honestly, there are lots of ways Madara could've survived. But to be frank, I don't really care how he did it. No matter how you look at it, he's a freak who ended up stuck underground and had to rely on a little kid to do his bidding. Madara keeps getting more pathetic with each chapter. Also, I think he got his spare Sharingan from a fodder Uchiha.

Crimsonlink
20th September 2012, 4:08 AM
...Seriously?



I think Hashirama spared Madara. He doesn't seem to be the type of person to mercilessly kill someone after they've already lost everything. I am also wondering whose eye he has. I cannot think of a single Uchiha that was missing an eye. And I'm pretty sure he gave his eyes to Nagato already. About 100% sure.

It was a rebuttal to Adam Ant and Joltik-Kid for mentioning other authors for no reason other than to make Kishi look good.

I doubt Hashirama spared Madara. Anyways I'm wondering if its Shisui Uchiha's eyes but then the numbers don't add up. Maybe Kagami Uchiha? Hope Kishi answer it soon.

Joltik-Kid
20th September 2012, 7:03 AM
It was a rebuttal to Adam Ant and Joltik-Kid for mentioning other authors for no reason other than to make Kishi look good.

Whoa, whoa, whoa... I didn't bring anyone up. Just cause I made a response to Adam doesn't mean I agreed with his judgement of bringing Kubo into this thread... (I agree the Bleach chapter was weak today though) but I also admit I wasn't thrilled with the Naruto chapter today. It was needed, but felt boring.

Shadow Lucario
20th September 2012, 8:18 AM
I doubt Hashirama spared Madara. Anyways I'm wondering if its Shisui Uchiha's eyes but then the numbers don't add up. Maybe Kagami Uchiha? Hope Kishi answer it soon.

Knowing Kishi he'll troll next chapter. I can feel it...

TsukiMirage
20th September 2012, 9:50 AM
Hmm, couldn't it just be Madara used Izanagi to survive? Izanagi is merely an "undo button", it wouldn't prevent Madara from simply dying right after it ends.

Shneak
20th September 2012, 10:35 PM
Izanagi would explain why he's missing an eye. His replacement eyes would also suggest that he was at a disadvantage to Hashirama and likely lost because of it. I bet he used Izanagi and somehow got the hell out of there, making Hashirama think he died. Which begs the question, why not use Izanami?

Lorde
20th September 2012, 11:25 PM
Izanagi would explain why he's missing an eye. His replacement eyes would also suggest that he was at a disadvantage to Hashirama and likely lost because of it. I bet he used Izanagi and somehow got the hell out of there, making Hashirama think he died. Which begs the question, why not use Izanami?

It's pretty much confirmed that he gave both of his eyes to Nagato, and the eye he had in this week's chapter was a spare he transplanted into his eye socket after that.

JJDalts
21st September 2012, 12:29 AM
It's pretty much confirmed that he gave both of his eyes to Nagato, and the eye he had in this week's chapter was a spare he transplanted into his eye socket after that.

Yea I pretty much got that too. I'm gonna assume Madara gave the eye he has now to Obito.

Platinum fan.
21st September 2012, 1:37 AM
To this day I still laugh and am disappointed at the same time that the Rinnegan is a Uchiha product and Nagato/Pain is a Uchiha experiment XD. Oh my gosh I need to move on from that. Still I wonder when they are going to show Madara meeting Nagato and giving him the eyes. And I use to think Nagato was special. He's only special because a Uchiha made him so. Uchiha's ruin everything.

Banana Knight Arthur
21st September 2012, 2:10 AM
To this day I still laugh and am disappointed at the same time that the Rinnegan is a Uchiha product and Nagato/Pain is a Uchiha experiment XD. Oh my gosh I need to move on from that. Still I wonder when they are going to show Madara meeting Nagato and giving him the eyes. And I use to think Nagato was special. He's only special because a Uchiha made him so. Uchiha's ruin everything.

The author has a boner for the Uchiha clan.

Face it.

Naruto is facing an uphill battle.

Kamex
21st September 2012, 3:53 AM
To this day I still laugh and am disappointed at the same time that the Rinnegan is a Uchiha product
Yes, I remember when the Byakugan was mentioned to possibly be an ancestor to the Sharingan in some sense, before the Sharingan became so ridiculously important to every part of the story line. Now, not only is the Byakugan of little importance and influence (at least as of what we know now), but even the Rinnegan has its roots in the Sharingan. O_o


And I use to think Nagato was special. He's only special because a Uchiha made him so.
Not entirely true... I believe Nagato was confirmed to be a descendant of the Uzumaki clan. That alone makes him pretty important to the plot and to Kishi's history of shinobi.

Edit: Or it was hinted that he's a descendant of the Uzumaki clan, at least.

Lorde
21st September 2012, 4:20 AM
Now that I think about it, Izuna's Sharingan really came a long way didn't they? He mastered them and unlocked the MS, then Madara took his eyes from him and gained the EMS and the Rinnegan, then he gave them to Nagato and now Tobi has them (well, one). Funny how Izuna is the root of a lot of problems in this story.

Banana Knight Arthur
21st September 2012, 5:13 AM
Now that I think about it, Izuna's Sharingan really came a long way didn't they? He mastered them and unlocked the MS, then Madara took his eyes from him and gained the EMS and the Rinnegan, then he gave them to Nagato and now Tobi has them (well, one). Funny how Izuna is the root of a lot of problems in this story.

Someone should invent a *time-space* jutsu and kill Izuna and burn/melt/burst his eyes.............

TsukiMirage
21st September 2012, 7:17 AM
The author has a boner for the Uchiha clan.

Face it.

Naruto is facing an uphill battle. Well Kishi seems to be evening things out by using Hashirama and his Mokuton...

Banana Knight Arthur
21st September 2012, 6:38 PM
Well Kishi seems to be evening things out by using Hashirama and his Mokuton...

So is Naruto going to spontaneously sprout Wood Release abilities then?

I'm confused.

Mokuton hax is only being abused from the Madara camp.

TsukiMirage
21st September 2012, 10:25 PM
So is Naruto going to spontaneously sprout Wood Release abilities then?

I'm confused.

Mokuton hax is only being abused from the Madara camp. Don't forget Hashirama and Danzo too. Anyway, the point is that since the war was announced, Mokuton has been built up to be the counterpart of the Sharingan, and likewise something various people are attempting to get their hands on.

Platinum fan.
22nd September 2012, 1:57 AM
Yes, I remember when the Byakugan was mentioned to possibly be an ancestor to the Sharingan in some sense, before the Sharingan became so ridiculously important to every part of the story line. Now, not only is the Byakugan of little importance and influence (at least as of what we know now), but even the Rinnegan has its roots in the Sharingan. O_o


Not entirely true... I believe Nagato was confirmed to be a descendant of the Uzumaki clan. That alone makes him pretty important to the plot and to Kishi's history of shinobi.

Edit: Or it was hinted that he's a descendant of the Uzumaki clan, at least.

I sometimes forget how important the Byakugan was in part 1. Honestly with all the Sharingan and Rinnegan powers, the Byakugan is not even worth stealing anymore. No wonder Orochimaru didn't try to obtain those eyes along with the Sharingan. He knew how out classed it would be in the future.

Lorde
22nd September 2012, 3:37 AM
I sometimes forget how important the Byakugan was in part 1. Honestly with all the Sharingan and Rinnegan powers, the Byakugan is not even worth stealing anymore. No wonder Orochimaru didn't try to obtain those eyes along with the Sharingan. He knew how out classed it would be in the future.

Kumogakure must be feeling very stupid right about now. All that trouble to try and steal the Byakugan when the Sharingan is the true hot commodity. :p

DucksGoMooful
22nd September 2012, 4:16 AM
The Rinnegan and Sharingan are actually descended from the most powerful eye, the Byakugan. Neji's gonna turn out to have been the true villain this whole time.

Shneak
22nd September 2012, 4:22 AM
The Rinnegan and Sharingan are actually descended from the most powerful eye, the Byakugan. Neji's gonna turn out to have been the true villain this whole time.

I love how he has been defeated by being punched to near-death by both Naruto and Sakura (even though it was Zetsu for her.) I guess it's Sasuke's chance to redeem himself against big bad Neji.

LizardonX
22nd September 2012, 7:08 AM
So wait is tobi obito or madara, I really dont feel like reading through 80 chapters of stuff to get caught up.

Lorde
22nd September 2012, 7:31 AM
So wait is tobi obito or madara, I really dont feel like reading through 80 chapters of stuff to get caught up.

Tobi is Obito. We're just starting to get information on why he joined forces with Madara.

7 tyranitars
22nd September 2012, 1:06 PM
Izanagi is merely an "undo button", it wouldn't prevent Madara from simply dying right after it ends.

No I ment that was why his eye disapeared. :p

Platinum fan.
22nd September 2012, 4:48 PM
I love how he has been defeated by being punched to near-death by both Naruto and Sakura (even though it was Zetsu for her.) I guess it's Sasuke's chance to redeem himself against big bad Neji.

Naruto had Kyubi Chakra, combind with his main character status and having to prove Neji's way of thinking wrong, he had to beat Neji. As far as Sakura and the Zetsu clone, the clones are never as strong as the real deal, Sakura could never beat the real Neji. Neji doesn't get major battles anymore but with all his abilities I would still consider him one of Konoha's strongest young ninjas. Outside Naruto and Sasuke, Shikamaru and Shino are probably as good as him if not better.

Shadow Lucario
22nd September 2012, 6:20 PM
Naruto had Kyubi Chakra, combind with his main character status and having to prove Neji's way of thinking wrong, he had to beat Neji. As far as Sakura and the Zetsu clone, the clones are never as strong as the real deal, Sakura could never beat the real Neji. Neji doesn't get major battles anymore but with all his abilities I would still consider him one of Konoha's strongest young ninjas. Outside Naruto and Sasuke, Shikamaru and Shino are probably as good as him if not better.

While I do agree with you I feel as though Neji would be able to beat Shikamaru. His speed combined with his type of Taijutsu makes him deadly against opponents that rely heavily on Chakra like Shikamaru. As for Shino, I'm gonna have to say Shino. Even though Neji is one of my favorite characters, I just know that Shino would win.

Lorde
22nd September 2012, 7:45 PM
I'm still pressed that Shikamaru has been shown as godly throughout the series. He was fine at first because he used his head in battle and things were believable, but then things started getting a little too unrealistic. His battle with Hidan was probably his worst in my opinion. I refuse to believe that a side character could take out a member of Akatsuki all on their own. And let's not forget that he stopped Tobi for a few seconds during the Gedo Mazo attack.

Charminions
22nd September 2012, 9:23 PM
I'm still pressed that Shikamaru has been shown as godly throughout the series. He was fine at first because he used his head in battle and things were believable, but then things started getting a little too unrealistic. His battle with Hidan was probably his worst in my opinion. I refuse to believe that a side character could take out a member of Akatsuki all on their own. And let's not forget that he stopped Tobi for a few seconds during the Gedo Mazo attack.

Someone who doesn't have a Sharingan or is a Jinchuuriki that's done something impressive in this series? BLASPHEMY.

Platinum fan.
22nd September 2012, 10:00 PM
Shikamaru is both overrated and underrated. He's overrated because of how he always gets to shine while his teammates Choji and Ino are basically his sidekicks, but I'd say they all got equal spotlight during the Asuma fight. He's underrated because he's not the strongest. I do agree that Shikamaru probably couldn't beat Neji, but he could certainly slow him down and give him a run for his money. Shikamaru is smart which is something the Naruto universe greatly overlooks and they favor power and bloodlines over smarts. Just look at Konan vs Tobi. Sharingan trumps all brain power and planning.

As far Shikamaru beating Hidan, they should of had Choji and Ino be involved and have the three of them take down Hidan together instead of it just being Shikamaru. But I personally don't mind Shikamaru beating Hidan. Hidan was not a serious player in the Naruto universe and to be honest I consider him the weakest of the Akatsuki. Him and Kakuzu. Take away his immortality and Hidan isn't even that threatening. Look how many times Asuma's squad hit vital points on him before he killed Asuma. Being immortal must have made him lazy at dodging.

Lorde
23rd September 2012, 12:15 AM
Someone who doesn't have a Sharingan or is a Jinchuuriki that's done something impressive in this series? BLASPHEMY.

I'm grateful that Kishi was able to make a strong character who doesn't own a pair of Sharingan, but to be completely honest, he's sometimes even more hax than Sasuke. His shadow jutsu work too well. His existence is one of the reasons why I hope the Allied Shinobi Forces arrive at the current fight late, so that Shikamaru can't solo Madara and/or Tobi.

Shneak
23rd September 2012, 2:30 AM
Worst thing about Shikamaru is how glorified he is now. Especially when Obito told him he was a threat out of context for holding him in a possession briefly. I liked Shikamaru a lot more PTS when he surrendered to Temari after trapping her and when he had to cope with failing the retrieval mission.

LizardonX
23rd September 2012, 8:34 PM
Daaamn, I've been catching up on the world war arc and half of these ninjas are on like DBZ levels now.

Shneak
24th September 2012, 3:41 AM
Daaamn, I've been catching up on the world war arc and half of these ninjas are on like DBZ levels now.

Nah, basically just Naruto, Sasuke and Madara.

Joltik-Kid
24th September 2012, 7:51 PM
Nah, basically just Naruto, Sasuke and Madara.
You could say Obito, Kakashi, and Guy in a way have all grown since the last time they seriously fought. I mean Kakashi is breaking out Kamui like crazy

Lorde
24th September 2012, 9:27 PM
You could say Obito, Kakashi, and Guy in a way have all grown since the last time they seriously fought. I mean Kakashi is breaking out Kamui like crazy

They're certainly strong, but I personally don't count them among the strongest characters. Naruto, Sasuke and Madara seem to be the top three at the moment, although Madara is practically invincible as Kishi himself stated that he had no weaknesses. It sucks that there's so much hax running around in this manga.

Locormus
25th September 2012, 5:25 PM
Daaamn, I've been catching up on the world war arc and half of these ninjas are on like DBZ levels now.

Was Yamcha any good in DBZ? No... Was Tien any good in DBZ? Relativily speaking no. Same with Shika, Choji and uhh.. Sai.. They're the Yamcha and Tien's from DBZ, where Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Picollo continued to grow: Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi, Gai

SkyDeity
26th September 2012, 7:56 AM
The multiple Tobi theory may be officially thrown out the window now. Obito's hair grew out while he was underground.

lolipiece
26th September 2012, 8:07 AM
Thank you, Kishi. I totally needed to know that Tobi-Zetsu can't poop.

About the chapter....it's actually pretty awesome.

Guess it explains why Tobi bled that white goop.

Crimsonlink
26th September 2012, 8:32 AM
I swear that Kishi is on some kind of drug when he writes these chapters. The next chapter is going to be painfully predictable. Obito goes to point A, helps team Kaka, cause Rin's death or something along the lines of Rin dying and then retreats to point B for an emo breakdown. Cue Madara brainwashing him into avenger Uchiha that ends up killing Kushina and Minato indirectly. Along with a sh*t load of Konoha Villagers.

One thing I think is certain though. Obito/Tobi never met Kakashi on that little rescue mission because Kakashi never recognized him in masked form. Or maybe Kishi simply forgot. Also did Obito gain the Mangekyo Sharingan before Kakashi or was it done at the same time? Probably before considering how Obito travels around like he has a cheatcode while Kakashi cannot.

This begs a curious question though. If Nagato was supposed to use his revival jutsu on Madara who had a crippled body, isn't Madara's original body still stuck on that statue? The Edo Tensai just brings back the body that was at the said shinobi's prime in dust form. ?_?

uber gon
26th September 2012, 8:47 AM
Well at least we ge some of the reasons why Obito is practically invulnerable. Zetsu implants.

JD
26th September 2012, 12:04 PM
I think that "spiral Zetsu" was the guy that was partnered with Deidara that one time not Obito.. he has no reason to act goofy and you didn't see the Sharingan until it was revealed that Obito was disguised as Madara.

gliscor&yanmega
26th September 2012, 3:00 PM
Yah Zetsu. Oh and some more explaining of Obito, that's nice too but...Yah Zetsu! :3

PokeMaster366
26th September 2012, 3:44 PM
Yah Zetsu. Oh and some more explaining of Obito, that's nice too but...Yah Zetsu! :3

Yeah, Zetsu was pretty fun to watch. Now I'm curious about whether or not Mermaids in One Piece can poop.

Aeon™
26th September 2012, 3:58 PM
I have a feeling this chapter was entirely comedy relief. at least, the first 2/3. But, I'm curious as to why Zetsu was so... Tobi. Back when Tobi was an idiot. And I wonder where Black Zetsu comes in...

SharpedoX
26th September 2012, 4:41 PM
Finally, some much needed backstory that is being very well elaborated, in my opinion. That explains the gooey white stuff that Obito threw at Danzo's guards in the form of his arm. I'm actually happy Zetsu was given a good role and I'm looking forward to how this develops. I predict we'll see, soon enough, how Obito managed to awaken the MS and how Rin died. He possibly had a hand in the latter and awaken the MS thanks to that (can't see many more options).

Hope we can see how Black Zetsu came to be and what really happened to the spiral version one. There was a theory long ago how Zetsu grabbed Obito's body after the boulders took him and how he reconstructed him. For that time, it was actually a pretty plausible theory and I was actually supporting it. It's nice seeing a similar version occurring. Can't wait to see how Obito got so brainwashed and powerful enough to challenge the Yondaime. Hope it's in a completely plausible way but knowing Kishi, one can never be sure...

abdulmuhsee
26th September 2012, 4:53 PM
Worst thing about Shikamaru is how glorified he is now. Especially when Obito told him he was a threat out of context for holding him in a possession briefly. I liked Shikamaru a lot more PTS when he surrendered to Temari after trapping her and when he had to cope with failing the retrieval mission.

I think, in the anime at least, the peak of the entire series was the Kakuzu + Hidan story arc. I had no problem with Shikamaru getting the spotlight, since it's nice to know that not everyone without a Sharingan or a mythical beast inside of them isn't completely irrelevant.

The entire world war arc is a complete letdown to me... simply bringing back the people that have already died isn't all that interesting.

Platinum fan.
26th September 2012, 6:25 PM
Once again, ole Platinum fan was bored with this weeks chapter, at least until the end. Right when it got interesting it ended. I will say that Obito really loved Rin. She really was his world, so I can now see why he'd want to kill the world because his Rin isn't in it. Poor Rin, I wonder how the poor girl croaks? Looking forward to next chapter as long as there is no poop talk. Seriously glad I wasn't eating now.

TsukiMirage
26th September 2012, 6:36 PM
Really could have done without the poop jokes, but I enjoyed seeing Obito's interaction with the Zetsus. Well, while seeing Obito slowly recuperate was nice, still can't wait to see exactly how Obito develops the skills showcased as Tobi. Will be interesting to see if this situation with Rin is a set-up by Zetsu/Madara or if it's merely bad luck. Good chapter.

vodor
26th September 2012, 7:57 PM
Once again, ole Platinum fan was bored with this weeks chapter, at least until the end. Right when it got interesting it ended. I will say that Obito really loved Rin. She really was his world, so I can now see why he'd want to kill the world because his Rin isn't in it. Poor Rin, I wonder how the poor girl croaks? Looking forward to next chapter as long as there is no poop talk. Seriously glad I wasn't eating now.
May be She died to protect Kekashi !

Shneak
26th September 2012, 9:52 PM
- Madara tried to make me go to rehab, I said, no, no, no.
- Why does that Zetsu have a skin mask?
- "Could you watch over Obito for a few hours? I'm going to take a small nap." *dies*
- I also hate swirly Zetsu. How does he even know about that anyway? Does Madara talk about his bowel movements?
- Aw, Kakashi must have imitated that photo for the Team 7 one.
- Suddenly, flowing locks!
- "I'm getting used." This has a very different meaning if the last word is pronounced differently. They both apply too.
- Melting hand makes another cameo.
- WTF!? Literally wearing another person.

I don't know if I liked that chapter. I like that we got some more answers (Zetsu is manufactured by Madara, Obito knows the wood style) It was way too weird though. Why the hell does that Zetsu look like Obito's mask? It even talked like 'good boy Tobi' too. So was Obito wearing that thing often?

My guess as for what's next is that Obito arrives too late and finds Rin dead. I bet we'll get some weird reveal as to who the Mist killer is too.

DucksGoMooful
26th September 2012, 10:28 PM
Interesting that Obito should say that he dislikes the spiral mask the most, yet ends up using that mask for a while after. I guess he got to liking it after wearing it in battle, especially since he only had one eye. Is it coincidental though that the spiral Zetsu would fir perfectly to his face, including the hole where his sole eye is?

I really liked this chapter and I'm liking how everything is going thus far. Looking forward to next week, though I'm still not happy it's Obito.

-Raiga-
27th September 2012, 2:48 AM
I liked the chapter this week, and I'm glad kishimoto is keeping it slow paced despite the more selfish members of the fan community wanting to see everything revealed in one chapter.

Then again I liked the poop jokes, so my opinion don't matter.

Platinum fan.
27th September 2012, 4:11 PM
May be She died to protect Kekashi !

I guess that would be the obvious way for Rin to go belly up. Saving Kakashi. I feel bad for Kakashi. He lost Obito, Rin, and his master and to top it off it seems every Uchiha he has a personal relationship with stab him and the village in the back. First Sasuke and now Obito, or is it the other way around? Either way his track record with Uchiha's isn't good. I won't blame him if the next Uchiha he meets he doesn't trust him or her. Is there any Uchiha not surrounded in controversy?

Kamex
27th September 2012, 8:56 PM
Is there any Uchiha not surrounded in controversy?
Actually, no. None that have been characterized at least. Except for Kagami, but it's only a matter of time before he's revealed as the true ultimate villain of the entire series, pulling all the strings!

pwnswitchclik
28th September 2012, 12:17 AM
Sasuke to get his own novel - http://www.narutobase.net/forums/showthread.php?t=251371.

I thought it might concern you, but may a mod delete this post as he/she sees fit.