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SenorLaughsaLot
26th January 2013, 9:57 PM
It sucks that like Tenten, Anko is virtually ignored even though Kishi has expressed so much interest in her. I pray that she'll return safe and sound; maybe Karin will find the cave in her search for Sasuke and she'll bring Anko with her back to Konoha, maybe as a token of appreciation for the way the Konoha ninja saved her.

Why would she go all the way to the cave if she's a sensor? Shouldn't she be able to sense him in the village?

Also, I agree. He has to give some more attention to his "favorite" kunoichi.

Joltik-Kid
26th January 2013, 11:24 PM
I don't trust Kishi and favorites... he's always changing them :P

Locormus
27th January 2013, 3:36 PM
I don't trust Kishi and favorites... he's always changing them :P

Eitherway I'm glad that it was Neji that died and not Tenten/Lee.. Of all the Konoha12+1, I couldn't care less about Neji or the Hyuuga for that matter. I still think that Shino should get more limelight, along with the rest of that team, but ever since 'the baby' they've been put on nonactive, compared to Shikamaru's team and the others.

Lorde
27th January 2013, 9:21 PM
Why would she go all the way to the cave if she's a sensor? Shouldn't she be able to sense him in the village?

Well if she sensed Sasuke in the cave while he was fighting against Kabuto alongside Itachi, she would probably look for him there before picking up the trail again. Although I do think it's silly that Karin left the village and now has to come right back once she's sensed Sasuke, especially after the trouble she went through to escape and look for him.

Shneak
30th January 2013, 2:51 AM
Uh, someone on Narutoforums apparently has spoilers, and, uh...

Orochimaru is taking Sasuke to see the 4 Hokages.

I actually saw this coming, albeit only one of them.

Lorde
30th January 2013, 7:12 AM
Oh truck. So now the previous Hokage are back. I'm not sure if I should be happy, or really angry. I mean, we were led to believe that once they were sealed, they could never be brought back. But apparently the Uzumaki clan had a way of reclaiming the lost souls who were trapped by the Repear Death Seal jutsu? Ugh, this is really weird.

SenorLaughsaLot
30th January 2013, 7:29 AM
Oh truck. So now the previous Hokage are back. I'm not sure if I should be happy, or really angry. I mean, we were led to believe that once they were sealed, they could never be brought back. But apparently the Uzumaki clan had a way of reclaiming the lost souls who were trapped by the Repear Death Seal jutsu? Ugh, this is really weird.

I felt the exact same way. The Reaper Death Seal Jutsu was developed by the Uzumaki, right?

Now Madara has some real competition. That is, if they're used to fight. They could just be used for the info. I'm not sure whether or not I would want them to join the war anyway.

Ace Of Keys
30th January 2013, 7:34 AM
Dear God those writers are making me **** brick houses. Reversing the sealing jutsu shinigami and using edo tensei to bring back four of the most intense ninja from the Leaf. Seriously this is so delicious it has to be fattening

Shadow Lucario
30th January 2013, 7:34 AM
I felt the exact same way. The Reaper Death Seal Jutsu was developed by the Uzumaki, right?

Now Madara has some real competition. That is, if they're used to fight. They could just be used for the info. I'm not sure whether or not I would want them to join the war anyway.

I don't think it's ever stated that they developed it, but it would be safe to assume that. I always thought it was one of Minato's Jutsu.

Lorde
30th January 2013, 7:40 AM
I just can't believe how Orochimaru has gone back to being a viable threat in just one chapter. He absorbed Zetsu's body so it's safe to say that he can use Mokuton now, plus he got his arms back and all his jutsu that was sealed by the Death God in Part 1, and he controls the four previous Hokage. It's just too much; he seems stronger than Madara now.

wingzx
30th January 2013, 7:43 AM
it was so obvious atleast to me he was going to call the hokages >..<

Ace Of Keys
30th January 2013, 7:56 AM
I just can't believe how Orochimaru has gone back to being a viable threat in just one chapter. He absorbed Zetsu's body so it's safe to say that he can use Mokuton now, plus he got his arms back and all his jutsu that was sealed by the Death God in Part 1, and he controls the four previous Hokage. It's just too much; he seems stronger than Madara now.

That is presuming he can control the four hokage's easily. he may have done o before but that was two of them. The things is Orochimaru stated he wasn't interested in the war, and even Suigetsu pointed out he could destroy the Leaf but he didn't even do anything to confirm or deny the opportunity. He seems to play more the role of an observer ;)

Lorde
30th January 2013, 8:05 AM
That is presuming he can control the four hokage's easily. he may have done o before but that was two of them. The things is Orochimaru stated he wasn't interested in the war, and even Suigetsu pointed out he could destroy the Leaf but he didn't even do anything to confirm or deny the opportunity. He seems to play more the role of an observer ;)

I don't trust Orochimaru to just observe for long. Like he said in Part 1, he gets bored when things are too peaceful. He should be killed after the war, otherwise he'll probably start the next war. I hope Sasuke has foreseen this, but maybe he just doesn't care as long as he gets his answers. I hope he's smarter than that though.


it was so obvious atleast to me he was going to call the hokages >..<

How was it obvious to you? Like I said before, we were all led to believe that the Hokage couldn't be resurrected because their souls were in the Death God's stomach. Kishi just pulled this shinigami mask thing out of his butt to be honest. Not only that, but the actual temple where the masks were. I mean why was it never mentioned before that the Uzumaki clan had a place like that? It must have been close to Konoha since that's where Team Hawk was before they got the mask. I just think it's bad writing, although I'm glad that at least the secret has been revealed.

I also really liked the parallel between Naruto's return to Konoha at the start of Part 2 and Sasuke's. I like little easter eggs like that.

Ace Of Keys
30th January 2013, 8:21 AM
I don't trust Orochimaru to just observe for long. Like he said in Part 1, he gets bored when things are too peaceful. He should be killed after the war, otherwise he'll probably start the next war. I hope Sasuke has foreseen this, but maybe he just doesn't care as long as he gets his answers. I hope he's smarter than that though.

I also really liked the parallel between Naruto's return to Konoha at the start of Part 2 and Sasuke's. I like little easter eggs like that.

No neither do I. It would be a stretch to say he would play a passive role and there is no question that as a schemer he will consider multiple options however just like before Sasuke can probably kill him so he'll need to play his cards right if he does have any ambition. Whatever goal he has in mind he has a pretty good poker face. and I agree the easter eggs are always fun tidbits ;)

HoennMaster
30th January 2013, 8:42 AM
I just can't believe how Orochimaru has gone back to being a viable threat in just one chapter. He absorbed Zetsu's body so it's safe to say that he can use Mokuton now

??Ok I don't recall this. when did this happen?

lolipiece
30th January 2013, 9:03 AM
Meh. We've already seen the first two Hokage revived ages ago.

But at least it's nice to see Hiruzen and Minato. Father/son battle soon?

Kamex
30th January 2013, 9:24 AM
Orochimaru must be planning something if he wants to go through the trouble of getting his arms back. Hopefully all he wants is to continue research about jutsu in solitude somewhere.

I don't know how I feel about all of the Hokage being back. Kinda cliche actually, I can imagine them giving Naruto their blessings after the war is over (along with a dying Tsunade). Plus it was kinda anticlimactic for me; I was expecting new characters or people who have only been briefly mentioned like Kagami/Izuna Uchiha or someone from the days of the Sage himself.


I also really liked the parallel between Naruto's return to Konoha at the start of Part 2 and Sasuke's. I like little easter eggs like that.
Yeah that was actually really cool. Not only that, but Naruto's panel was from the opposite angle, during the day, and he remarked how Konoha hadn't changed at all. Sasuke's panel is at night, and interestingly enough he feels that Konoha has changed a lot.

TsukiMirage
30th January 2013, 10:31 AM
Revival of the Hokages was one of the expected outcomes, though the way it was done was ridiculous. Regardless, very interested in hearing what they have to say and what Sasuke plans on asking. And it appears that Orochimaru has mellowed out from his previous incarnation. Most intriguing chapter in a while.

Chingchar
30th January 2013, 11:22 AM
Wait if Orochimaru cut the belly of the shinigami to release the souls inside it then that means that the rest of the Kubii's power has been released... Imagine if Naruto got his hands on that!

JD
30th January 2013, 11:48 AM
I bet Hashirama and Minato will break the Edo Tensei and head off to face Madara and Obito.

7 tyranitars
30th January 2013, 12:56 PM
I don't think it's ever stated that they developed it, but it would be safe to assume that. I always thought it was one of Minato's Jutsu.

They did, it was stated that minato learned his sealing techniques from the Uzimaki clan.


Wait if Orochimaru cut the belly of the shinigami to release the souls inside it then that means that the rest of the Kubii's power has been released... Imagine if Naruto got his hands on that!

You got a point there. I overlooked that!

uber gon
30th January 2013, 2:29 PM
Hopefully Sasuke (and us readers) will get some credible information about the whole Uchiha coup thing.

Platinum fan.
30th January 2013, 2:35 PM
I'm sorry but what a load of crap. I knew Orochimaru was going to get some kind of cheap upgrade, I have been saying it ever since he came back. Though I must say I was not expecting him to get his original arms back. Third Hokage really did die in vain, I feel so bad for Sarutobi now :( I imagine these 4 Hokages aren't going away anytime soon so I do expect a forced Naruto and Minato meeting/possible fight, even though I don't think one is needed. Naruto already met his daddy. The cheapness of this chapter just ruined it for me. Suigetsu and Jugo easily going back to following Orochimaru without question, call me crazy but by the sound of how they spoke of him I thought they didn't like him much. Guess I was wrong there. The only good thing about this chapter was Sasuke doesn't feel really evil at the moment, more like confused on where he stands. So much has happened that I'm sure he doesn't care that Orochimaru's back and powering himself up, he just wants the truth. I guess Itachi, Danzo, and Tobi were not enough for him. Overall a cheap BS chapter full of loopholes and undoing things I thought would stick. Naruto has officially pulled a BW.

With that little rant aside, I am looking forward to next week to see what the Hokage have to say to Sasuke. I wonder if Sasuke will conclude right away that Minato is Naruto's dad? Looking forward to that.

SharpedoX
30th January 2013, 3:45 PM
With all the four possible candidates they give us these...? I'm so disappointed. Sarutobi died in vain. Death means nothing in this manga.

Who's next, Jiraiya? Wouldn't surpise me at all... Sigh... My faith in this is almost gone. Reviving the Juubi without all the tailed beasts, Edo Tensei left and left, bringing back people that were sealed. Nice going, Kishi...

pwnswitchclik
30th January 2013, 4:39 PM
With all the four possible candidates they give us these...? I'm so disappointed. Sarutobi died in vain. Death means nothing in this manga.

Who's next, Jiraiya? Wouldn't surpise me at all... Sigh... My faith in this is almost gone. Reviving the Juubi without all the tailed beasts, Edo Tensei left and left, bringing back people that were sealed. Nice going, Kishi...

I'm doubting about the Jiraiya part, his body is at the bottom of the sea, unless Orochimaru finds his severed arm.

7 tyranitars
30th January 2013, 4:52 PM
With all the four possible candidates they give us these...? I'm so disappointed. Sarutobi died in vain. Death means nothing in this manga.

Who's next, Jiraiya? Wouldn't surpise me at all... Sigh... My faith in this is almost gone. Reviving the Juubi without all the tailed beasts, Edo Tensei left and left, bringing back people that were sealed. Nice going, Kishi...

Never read One piece I see..

And you may not liked it but tobi infact did use all the tailed beasts, just not all the chakra from the kyuubi and hachibi.

Locormus
30th January 2013, 5:07 PM
Oh truck. So now the previous Hokage are back. I'm not sure if I should be happy, or really angry. I mean, we were led to believe that once they were sealed, they could never be brought back. But apparently the Uzumaki clan had a way of reclaiming the lost souls who were trapped by the Repear Death Seal jutsu? Ugh, this is really weird.

You mean 'Oh cluck' right? xD

It's really weird, because as far as we know, the Uzumaki's were experts on seals and stuff, however, why would they want to reverse the seal, if they didn't use Edo Tensei as well? I mean they have no use for it because they had no Edo Tensei, unless this reversal thing is one of the techniques that they made along with Tobirama.

Uzumaki clan: Shinigami Seal
Senju Tobirama: Edo Tensei
Uzumaki clan: Reverse Shinigami Seal

Could mean that Tobirama worked alongside the Uzumaki and actually meant for this structure to exist. In the sense of if they ever were to come across an enemy that was far too hard to handle, they could resort to the Shinigami Seal, but with the option of being revived through Tobirama's Edo Tensei when the Reversal technique was used. Of course, this cost another his life, but if an entire troup had died, that may just be a strategical line of tactics. Sure, they'd be undead, but among the living.

We know that Tobirama was by far the most shady Hokage (aside from Danzou), so it could've been possible. I'm obviously not trying to play the devil's advocate here, the way this has been brought up has badly written all over it, but Kishi needs to let Tobirama (the effing creator of Edo Tensei) say something, so this would be a good thing for him to bring up.

The only thing I'm massively unsure of, is why Orochimaru/Sasuke had to perform this technique at the Uchiha Shrine?


I just can't believe how Orochimaru has gone back to being a viable threat in just one chapter. He absorbed Zetsu's body so it's safe to say that he can use Mokuton now, plus he got his arms back and all his jutsu that was sealed by the Death God in Part 1, and he controls the four previous Hokage. It's just too much; he seems stronger than Madara now.

He's not 'Madara-viable' yet. Compared to Madara, Orochimaru is manageable.. Things Orochimaru doesn't have that Madara does:
- Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan
- Rinnegan
- Eternal life (well, at this point)..

Orochimaru has his:
- Snakeyness
- Mokuton
- Horcruxes - HP reference to Voldemort (sp), but comes down to eternal life as well.
- Four Hokage:
1. Shodai: If Madara can break Edo Tensei, then why not Shodai?
2. Nidaime: Can probably undo his own technique.
3. Sandaime: Poor Hiruzen..
4. Yondaime: Minato is good with seals, who knows what he can do to break out of this particular one.

So out of Orochimaru's new tools, I think the only one he can hope to keep is Hiruzen.. Arguably the weakest Hokage as he is not in his prime.

It certainly doesn't trump the threat the alliance is now facing, so it will definitely be a smaller scale battle than what we have now.


No neither do I. It would be a stretch to say he would play a passive role and there is no question that as a schemer he will consider multiple options however just like before Sasuke can probably kill him so he'll need to play his cards right if he does have any ambition. Whatever goal he has in mind he has a pretty good poker face. and I agree the easter eggs are always fun tidbits ;)

Before:
- Orochimaru had no hands to do any jutsu
- Orochimaru was ill/living in rejecting bodies
- Orochimaru had no Mokuton
- Orochimaru didn't have Senju DNA/Chakra
- Orochimaru didn't have 4 immortal kage at disposal

See how 'just like before' doesn't really apply at all anymore? Sure, Sasuke had his eyes upgraded, but even Madara sorta failed against only Shodai with EMS...


Meh. We've already seen the first two Hokage revived ages ago.

But at least it's nice to see Hiruzen and Minato. Father/son battle soon?

Or even better: Grandfather, grandson/daughter battles:
- Hiruzen vs. Konohamaru!!!
- Shodai vs. Tsunade!!!

And you're right, it was ages ago, and it was a kage vs. 2 kage. Our main protagonist/antagonists have grown up since then, and it would be a good change to see how they handle them! Not to mention the context, or the subtext that wasn't able to come forward back then..


Revival of the Hokages was one of the expected outcomes, though the way it was done was ridiculous. Regardless, very interested in hearing what they have to say and what Sasuke plans on asking. And it appears that Orochimaru has mellowed out from his previous incarnation. Most intriguing chapter in a while.

Agreed, unless my above explanation comes true (Tobirama/Uzumaki-cooperative jutsu). I do agree that the way it was done could've been forshadowed better. He should've at least mentioned such a temple in part 1. I mean for god's sake we always thought Naruto was the sole Uzumaki in Konoha since his parents died. Apparently, he had a temple full of ancestors, or at least history of which he could've learned..


I bet Hashirama and Minato will break the Edo Tensei and head off to face Madara and Obito.

Don't forget Tobirama. As the creator of the technique, he should be able to do so as well.. Makes you wonder why they weren't able to do so in part1 though.. Oh well, inconsistency is the word for this chapter..


I'm sorry but what a load of crap. I knew Orochimaru was going to get some kind of cheap upgrade, I have been saying it ever since he came back. Though I must say I was not expecting him to get his original arms back. Third Hokage really did die in vain, I feel so bad for Sarutobi now :( I imagine these 4 Hokages aren't going away anytime soon so I do expect a forced Naruto and Minato meeting/possible fight, even though I don't think one is needed. Naruto already met his daddy. The cheapness of this chapter just ruined it for me. Suigetsu and Jugo easily going back to following Orochimaru without question, call me crazy but by the sound of how they spoke of him I thought they didn't like him much. Guess I was wrong there. The only good thing about this chapter was Sasuke doesn't feel really evil at the moment, more like confused on where he stands. So much has happened that I'm sure he doesn't care that Orochimaru's back and powering himself up, he just wants the truth. I guess Itachi, Danzo, and Tobi were not enough for him. Overall a cheap BS chapter full of loopholes and undoing things I thought would stick. Naruto has officially pulled a BW.

With that little rant aside, I am looking forward to next week to see what the Hokage have to say to Sasuke. I wonder if Sasuke will conclude right away that Minato is Naruto's dad? Looking forward to that.

A BW? A Best Wishes? Or a Bad writer? Comes down to the same I'd guess..

About why Suigetsu spoke to Orochimaru as he did: Fear... Once Orochimaru would get his hands back, that means that Orochimaru is vastly superior in strength to them.. It doesn't take a genius to think why they would suck up to him at this point...

Shneak
30th January 2013, 5:21 PM
- I was wondering how any of this could have survived Pain's Shinra Tensei. I guess Suigetsu answered me.
- Konoha looks almost back to normal. I wonder if they're still in the crater or used earth style to level it.
- Orochimaru showing why I've liked him all this time.
- Just noticed the RDS mask.
- And there's the real one.
- Oh ****.
- Haha, yes!

If I didn't know the spoiler before, this chapter may have blown Madara' reveal and Obito's unmasking out of the water. It's pretty good regardless. I didn't think Orochimaru was going to summon them through Edo Tensei right away, so this changes everything. They may be able to enter the war now, and Orochimaru's Edo Tensei may be powered up thanks to Kabuto.

TsukiMirage
30th January 2013, 5:23 PM
Wait if Orochimaru cut the belly of the shinigami to release the souls inside it then that means that the rest of the Kubii's power has been released... Imagine if Naruto got his hands on that! Doesn't seem likely thought, as only five things emerged from the shinigami's stomach, his arms and the four Hokages. Besides, powering up Naruto any more would be pretty pointless.

Joltik-Kid
30th January 2013, 6:42 PM
Doesn't seem likely thought, as only five things emerged from the shinigami's stomach, his arms and the four Hokages. Besides, powering up Naruto any more would be pretty pointless.
There's a reason for that... it's sealed inside Minato himself.

SharpedoX
30th January 2013, 6:50 PM
Never read One piece I see..


Guilty as charged! :D

LizardonX
30th January 2013, 6:52 PM
Doesn't seem likely thought, as only five things emerged from the shinigami's stomach, his arms and the four Hokages. Besides, powering up Naruto any more would be pretty pointless.

Kishi needs to save some things for naruto vs sasuke.

Joltik-Kid
30th January 2013, 8:15 PM
Never read One piece I see..
Straight up Dragon Ball would have been an even better example

7 tyranitars
30th January 2013, 9:04 PM
Straight up Dragon Ball would have been an even better example

That is true, I was thinking about that aswell but yeah..

Lorde
30th January 2013, 9:19 PM
I really hope Naruto gets the other half of Kurama's chakra; he's probably going to need it to complete "that" jutsu. Speaking of which, perhaps Minato will tell Naruto more about that. And oh the irony of Tobirama being revived by his own jutsu not once but twice and poor Hiruzen being revived by the guy who killed him.

Kamex
30th January 2013, 9:28 PM
Yeah anyone who can collect the dragon balls basically gets a free Rinne Tensei. Which happened at the end of virtually every arc.

waffle_x_v
30th January 2013, 11:20 PM
Nice chapter. Didn't expect the reaper to come back. Love orichimaru.

TsukiMirage
31st January 2013, 12:20 AM
There's a reason for that... it's sealed inside Minato himself. The arms and souls of the first two Hokages were sealed in the Third, didn't stop them from being on their own.


Kishi needs to save some things for naruto vs sasuke. Shouldn't the possible power-up be for Sasuke then, since Naruto is already pretty OP?


I really hope Naruto gets the other half of Kurama's chakra; he's probably going to need it to complete "that" jutsu. Speaking of which, perhaps Minato will tell Naruto more about that. And oh the irony of Tobirama being revived by his own jutsu not once but twice and poor Hiruzen being revived by the guy who killed him. I believe Naruto already finished it, it was the Bijuu Rasengan which needed him to master the Kyuubi's chakra.

Platinum fan.
31st January 2013, 12:37 AM
You mean 'Oh cluck' right? xD

It's really weird, because as far as we know, the Uzumaki's were experts on seals and stuff, however, why would they want to reverse the seal, if they didn't use Edo Tensei as well? I mean they have no use for it because they had no Edo Tensei, unless this reversal thing is one of the techniques that they made along with Tobirama.

Uzumaki clan: Shinigami Seal
Senju Tobirama: Edo Tensei
Uzumaki clan: Reverse Shinigami Seal

Could mean that Tobirama worked alongside the Uzumaki and actually meant for this structure to exist. In the sense of if they ever were to come across an enemy that was far too hard to handle, they could resort to the Shinigami Seal, but with the option of being revived through Tobirama's Edo Tensei when the Reversal technique was used. Of course, this cost another his life, but if an entire troup had died, that may just be a strategical line of tactics. Sure, they'd be undead, but among the living.

We know that Tobirama was by far the most shady Hokage (aside from Danzou), so it could've been possible. I'm obviously not trying to play the devil's advocate here, the way this has been brought up has badly written all over it, but Kishi needs to let Tobirama (the effing creator of Edo Tensei) say something, so this would be a good thing for him to bring up.

The only thing I'm massively unsure of, is why Orochimaru/Sasuke had to perform this technique at the Uchiha Shrine?



He's not 'Madara-viable' yet. Compared to Madara, Orochimaru is manageable.. Things Orochimaru doesn't have that Madara does:
- Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan
- Rinnegan
- Eternal life (well, at this point)..

Orochimaru has his:
- Snakeyness
- Mokuton
- Horcruxes - HP reference to Voldemort (sp), but comes down to eternal life as well.
- Four Hokage:
1. Shodai: If Madara can break Edo Tensei, then why not Shodai?
2. Nidaime: Can probably undo his own technique.
3. Sandaime: Poor Hiruzen..
4. Yondaime: Minato is good with seals, who knows what he can do to break out of this particular one.

So out of Orochimaru's new tools, I think the only one he can hope to keep is Hiruzen.. Arguably the weakest Hokage as he is not in his prime.

It certainly doesn't trump the threat the alliance is now facing, so it will definitely be a smaller scale battle than what we have now.



Before:
- Orochimaru had no hands to do any jutsu
- Orochimaru was ill/living in rejecting bodies
- Orochimaru had no Mokuton
- Orochimaru didn't have Senju DNA/Chakra
- Orochimaru didn't have 4 immortal kage at disposal

See how 'just like before' doesn't really apply at all anymore? Sure, Sasuke had his eyes upgraded, but even Madara sorta failed against only Shodai with EMS...



Or even better: Grandfather, grandson/daughter battles:
- Hiruzen vs. Konohamaru!!!
- Shodai vs. Tsunade!!!

And you're right, it was ages ago, and it was a kage vs. 2 kage. Our main protagonist/antagonists have grown up since then, and it would be a good change to see how they handle them! Not to mention the context, or the subtext that wasn't able to come forward back then..



Agreed, unless my above explanation comes true (Tobirama/Uzumaki-cooperative jutsu). I do agree that the way it was done could've been forshadowed better. He should've at least mentioned such a temple in part 1. I mean for god's sake we always thought Naruto was the sole Uzumaki in Konoha since his parents died. Apparently, he had a temple full of ancestors, or at least history of which he could've learned..



Don't forget Tobirama. As the creator of the technique, he should be able to do so as well.. Makes you wonder why they weren't able to do so in part1 though.. Oh well, inconsistency is the word for this chapter..



A BW? A Best Wishes? Or a Bad writer? Comes down to the same I'd guess..

About why Suigetsu spoke to Orochimaru as he did: Fear... Once Orochimaru would get his hands back, that means that Orochimaru is vastly superior in strength to them.. It doesn't take a genius to think why they would suck up to him at this point...

The two BW's mean the same thing as far as I'm concerned. I guess that's true about Suigetsu, but even when he followed Sasuke he had a bit of a rebel in him, always talking back to Sasuke. True, he never disobeyed Sasuke when he got a order, but yeah.

I'm still laughing at the fact that the 3rd Hokage's work has been undone in one chapter. What he died for was simply washed away. I thought we were done with Edo Tensei's but looks like we aren't. Naruto really has become the new Dragon Ball Z. Death means nothing. Not even sealing is a sure fire way to get rid of someone anymore. I'm waiting for the Earth to be blown up next and wished back to life afterwords.

Lorde
31st January 2013, 12:45 AM
I believe Naruto already finished it, it was the Bijuu Rasengan which needed him to master the Kyuubi's chakra.

Talk about anti-climactic. Now I'm wondering how on earth Naruto will beat Madara when he has no trump card up his sleeve. All he can do is spam Rasengan and the dozen other variations that it has that won't be able to harm Madara. The best we can hope for is for a Hashirama vs. Madara rematch, but I can't see how Hashirama would win a second time.

And yeah, I'm also saddened by the fact that Hiruzen's work was for nothing. He only managed to delay Orochimaru from getting all that he wanted. Now he's super-powerful again, plus he controls the same person who delayed his quest for power and the other three Hokage. Edo Tensei is a horrible jutsu that needs to be erased from history.

Platinum fan.
31st January 2013, 12:55 AM
Talk about anti-climactic. Now I'm wondering how on earth Naruto will beat Madara when he has no trump card up his sleeve. All he can do is spam Rasengan and the dozen other variations that it has that won't be able to harm Madara. The best we can hope for is for a Hashirama vs. Madara rematch, but I can't see how Hashirama would win a second time.

And yeah, I'm also saddened by the fact that Hiruzen's work was for nothing. He only managed to delay Orochimaru from getting all that he wanted. Now he's super-powerful again, plus he controls the same person who delayed his quest for power and the other three Hokage. Edo Tensei is a horrible jutsu that needs to be erased from history.

I'm calling it now. Neji will be back at some point. Maybe by the end of the war, maybe somewhere in the middle but he'll be Edo Tensied back to life. That's why Kishi has no fear to kill off main characters. He's found his magic set of Dragon Balls to get around that.

gohan5
31st January 2013, 1:28 AM
I'm calling it now. Neji will be back at some point. Maybe by the end of the war, maybe somewhere in the middle but he'll be Edo Tensied back to life. That's why Kishi has no fear to kill off main characters. He's found his magic set of Dragon Balls to get around that.

Even if he did stoop to just mass revivals, they're still dead, so it's not the same. I'd be upset if he brings anyone else back.

Shneak
31st January 2013, 4:25 AM
Talk about anti-climactic. Now I'm wondering how on earth Naruto will beat Madara when he has no trump card up his sleeve. All he can do is spam Rasengan and the dozen other variations that it has that won't be able to harm Madara. The best we can hope for is for a Hashirama vs. Madara rematch, but I can't see how Hashirama would win a second time.


The Hokages coming back might be the best thing in this case. There's no way Naruto can beat Madara, but leaving it to Hashirama and possibly the other three may be viable enough for his defeat. Obito seems to be more mortal than Madara, so Naruto or Kakashi could claim his defeat, but I wouldn't be surprised if Minato played a role as well.

Hashirama is Madara's foil. Tobirama will probably initiate the Hokages breaking out of Orochimaru's control. Hiruzen likely will get the least action because he's not in his prime, and he has to explain everything to Sasuke. Minato slots in with Obito and Kurama.

HoennMaster
31st January 2013, 5:42 AM
Sometimes I feel like I'm reading a really bizarre fan-fic. I can't wait to see where this is going. I hope this means that the War is almost over.


Straight up Dragon Ball would have been an even better example


Big difference, reviving dead people was something that was known from the beginning in Dragon Ball.

LizardonX
31st January 2013, 5:43 AM
What was the point of the 3rd Hokage's sacrifice then? Now we found out there are like dozens of ninja who could outmatch Oro at the time and the so called death seal could be undone..

7 tyranitars
31st January 2013, 11:11 AM
Sometimes I feel like I'm reading a really bizarre fan-fic. I can't wait to see where this is going. I hope this means that the War is almost over.




Big difference, reviving dead people was something that was known from the beginning in Dragon Ball.

Doesn't chance the fact that death means nothing in Dragon ball, and lets not forgot the namek dragonballs which bypassed the 1 revival clause.

gohan5
31st January 2013, 12:09 PM
Doesn't chance the fact that death means nothing in Dragon ball, and lets not forgot the namek dragonballs which bypassed the 1 revival clause.

It obviously still meant something or we wouldn't have Future Trunks. But this isn't about that.

I consider this more like comic book deaths, specifically it's like a free pass at Ra's all Ghul's Lazarus Pits. There should be more of a limit to the Edo Tensei and he should stick to it. I mean I'm supposed to believe that shrine thing is viable?

Platinum fan.
31st January 2013, 4:09 PM
The Hokages coming back might be the best thing in this case. There's no way Naruto can beat Madara, but leaving it to Hashirama and possibly the other three may be viable enough for his defeat. Obito seems to be more mortal than Madara, so Naruto or Kakashi could claim his defeat, but I wouldn't be surprised if Minato played a role as well.

Hashirama is Madara's foil. Tobirama will probably initiate the Hokages breaking out of Orochimaru's control. Hiruzen likely will get the least action because he's not in his prime, and he has to explain everything to Sasuke. Minato slots in with Obito and Kurama.

If they do, it will feel even more anti-climactic to me. So basically nobody of this era could stop Madara they had to rely on Orochimaru and his zombie Hokages. Kinda ironic actually if that does happen. Still the revived Hokages being used to defeat Madara would feel cheap, but looking at the direction Naruto is taking I can see that happening. Hopefully Naruto can at least beat Obito without Minato butting in. The kids of Konoha can't make a legacy if the old dogs have to save their butts, lol.

To Pokemonsquared, who asked what was the point of the 3rd Hokages sacrifice? He delayed Orochimaru and nothing more. In the end Orochimaru got the last laugh because he has good arms back and four immensly powerful Edo Tensei Hokages. The 3rd basically screwed himself.

Edit: But on the other hand seeing the 4 Hokages battle Madara in a ultra powered ninja battle does sound kinda fun to see. We can see who can trump who's jutsus. That does sound fun ^.^

HoennMaster
31st January 2013, 6:19 PM
I just wonder why kind of Minato and Naurto interactions we are going to get. This actually makes me hope Tsunade survives more than ever now so all five Hokages together would be awesome.

I just don't get what Orochimaru is up to. Doesn't want part of the war but is not doing anything to Konoha either.


Doesn't chance the fact that death means nothing in Dragon ball, and lets not forgot the namek dragonballs which bypassed the 1 revival clause.

And again, doesn't change that it was never meant to be permanent in some cases.

7 tyranitars
31st January 2013, 6:24 PM
I just wonder why kind of Minato and Naurto interactions we are going to get. This actually makes me hope Tsunade survives more than ever now so all five Hokages together would be awesome.

I just don't get what Orochimaru is up to. Doesn't want part of the war but is not doing anything to Konoha either.



And again, doesn't change that it was never meant to be permanent in some cases.

Point was that whoever complained at death meaning nothing, should look at other manga.

Joltik-Kid
31st January 2013, 9:29 PM
Talk about anti-climactic. Now I'm wondering how on earth Naruto will beat Madara when he has no trump card up his sleeve. All he can do is spam Rasengan and the dozen other variations that it has that won't be able to harm Madara. The best we can hope for is for a Hashirama vs. Madara rematch, but I can't see how Hashirama would win a second time.
Kishi stated before that Madara has no weakness... so he's basically making stuff up as he goes. And the thing is even if Hashirama does get involved, both him and Madara are immortal, so neither could win in the end, though Madara knows how to release the seal, so it would be pointless to have other Zombies fight him :P

Jb
31st January 2013, 10:43 PM
Point was that whoever complained at death meaning nothing, should look at other manga.

There is still a difference though. In Dragon Ball the people who are most revived are the innocent people caught up in battles and destruction. Either that or main characters, people who clearly weren't meant to stay dead. Not to mention that reviving people in DB required the Dragon Balls, which are tedious to acquire with everyone looking for them and such, also that the creator has to be alive.

In Naruto it seems gimped that people can just use Hax no Jutsu and revive hax ninjas. All this is backed by Kishi pulling BS out his rear end for the last few years because he's not sure who should stay dead or not.

Lorde
31st January 2013, 11:09 PM
This manga seems to be headed towards a cliff. I just don't see what Kishi plans to do about the war and all the other loose ends like Sasuke and Orochimaru. I personally don't feel that this week's chapter helped the manga. Oh sure, we'll get some answers, but it seems like more bad will be done in the long run than good.

Blazicken
1st February 2013, 3:50 AM
^ no it isn't.
Finally the manga is starting to get more intresting & with this new devellopment, it became harder to predict what's gonna happen from now on.
Cause honestly, the war has been going on for quite a while now with nothing interesting happening aside of it. Now there is.
A good manga needs that "not knowing what's next"-aspect.
Kishi wouldn't have done this side-devellopment if he didn't have a decent plan on how the war and orochimaru's actions are going to entwine.

7 tyranitars
1st February 2013, 4:36 PM
There is still a difference though. In Dragon Ball the people who are most revived are the innocent people caught up in battles and destruction. Either that or main characters, people who clearly weren't meant to stay dead. Not to mention that reviving people in DB required the Dragon Balls, which are tedious to acquire with everyone looking for them and such, also that the creator has to be alive.

In Naruto it seems gimped that people can just use Hax no Jutsu and revive hax ninjas. All this is backed by Kishi pulling BS out his rear end for the last few years because he's not sure who should stay dead or not.

Yeah in the first part mayby, in the end the had a namek and an earth pair, could get the dragonballs in less then an hour and that mostly innocent people where revived was mainly because they simply got caught in the bang.

Platinum fan.
1st February 2013, 5:55 PM
I love how many of us are comparing Naruto to Dragon Ball Z. Naruto is going the way of DBZ for me actually. After the Frieza saga in DBZ (My fave saga of DBZ) the rest of the series just got horrible. Trunks appearing and slicing up Frieza being the last good thing about that series for me. After that the show died for me. Naruto is almost coming to the same conclusion with me. After the Pain arc ended, hardly anything feels well written in the series. Edo Tensei has become the ultimate troll/scapegoat and death doesn't mean as much as long as someone can learn Edo Tensei. The war arc is mostly a mess but what can be done about it? I still like Naruto and will continue to follow it but so many things from part 1 have been ignored, overlooked, and quite frankly rewritten that sometimes it's hard to follow what's important and what is not.

gohan5
1st February 2013, 9:24 PM
^ And that's my main gripe with Naruto right now, things change so quickly and seem important but then are getting undone so easily during this war. The Juubi and Edo Tensei/Hashirama cells is the biggest thing I'd say. We were to believe that the all 9 Bijuu had to be used to summon the Juubi but now they only needed a portion of Bee and Naruto's chakra. So why go through the trouble of capturing all the rest of the Jinchuuriki if they only needed a little of their chakra? And I think we've already hammered in the cheapness of the Edo Tensei. But Hashirama's cells are becoming one of the biggest trolls now too. I'm finding it hard to believe that all of these people had so easy access to his body after his death. I mean he was the first Hokage for goodness sakes.

Lorde
1st February 2013, 10:21 PM
I'm all for new development, but when Kishi pulls out the deus ex machina in order to progress the plot, he's going to stumble upon some problems. I don't like where this manga is going. It was one thing for Kabuto to use Edo Tensei and practically make death meaningless, but for Orochimaru to do the exact same thing right after we just got done with that zombie nonsense is ridiculous, not to mention reductive. Kishi needs to leave dead characters alone and come up with other ways of answering Sasuke's questions. Remind me why Sasuke wants to talk to the Hokage anyway.

TsukiMirage
1st February 2013, 10:37 PM
^ And that's my main gripe with Naruto right now, things change so quickly and seem important but then are getting undone so easily during this war. The Juubi and Edo Tensei/Hashirama cells is the biggest thing I'd say. We were to believe that the all 9 Bijuu had to be used to summon the Juubi but now they only needed a portion of Bee and Naruto's chakra. So why go through the trouble of capturing all the rest of the Jinchuuriki if they only needed a little of their chakra? And I think we've already hammered in the cheapness of the Edo Tensei. But Hashirama's cells are becoming one of the biggest trolls now too. I'm finding it hard to believe that all of these people had so easy access to his body after his death. I mean he was the first Hokage for goodness sakes. No, the real question is why the hell did Obito go through the trouble of forming Akatsuki and waiting so long when he could have easily gotten all the Bijuus himself and completed the Moon Eye plan years ago without worrying about anyone getting in his way.

-Raiga-
1st February 2013, 10:48 PM
Of course people could realize this a manga for 12 year olds and not over-analyze EVERYTHING.

Anyways, I have a question. What did Orochimaru mean when he said "you aren't my snakes anymore" to the taka guys? Does he mean they've surpassed him, or that they belong to sasuke, or what?

TsukiMirage
1st February 2013, 10:56 PM
There's a difference between over-analyzing and noticing major plotholes.

And Orochimaru's comment was that they were no longer his subordinates, having left his services to follow Sasuke and become Taka.

pwnswitchclik
2nd February 2013, 12:05 AM
Of course people could realize this a manga for 12 year olds and not over-analyze EVERYTHING.

Anyways, I have a question. What did Orochimaru mean when he said "you aren't my snakes anymore" to the taka guys? Does he mean they've surpassed him, or that they belong to sasuke, or what?

I think it was a way of Orochimaru saying they aren't his subordinates anymore. Not sure, though.

SharpedoX
2nd February 2013, 1:10 AM
I wonder if Hashirama versus Madura 2.0 will occur at some point. Funny how the 2nd Hokage came back twice with the same jutsu he invented; Orochimaru doesn't let him rest :P

Hope if the next chapter will enlighten us a bit and if it will also focus on Orochimaru and whether he has Mokuton or not. I'll be seriously pissed if he did. Nowadays someone gets a Kekkai Genkai as frequently as the number of episodes Sakura's useless (couldn't help myself with the comparison).

Lorde
2nd February 2013, 2:24 AM
What does Orochimaru want with the sixth Zetsu anyway? Is he saving it to experiment on, or does he plan on reviving one more person?

Shneak
2nd February 2013, 4:05 AM
He doesn't really elaborate. He just tells them to keep them pinned while he rockets into one of them. He also says that he has their DNA, but he's a collector. He may keep it, but it seems to convenient to have an extra laying around. I would not be shocked it it was used for Kushina.

HoennMaster
2nd February 2013, 4:56 AM
^And with that I just pictured the rest of the manga in my head lol

SharpedoX
2nd February 2013, 3:40 PM
He doesn't really elaborate. He just tells them to keep them pinned while he rockets into one of them. He also says that he has their DNA, but he's a collector. He may keep it, but it seems to convenient to have an extra laying around. I would not be shocked it it was used for Kushina.

That's a pretty good idea though! And the 6th?

pwnswitchclik
2nd February 2013, 4:27 PM
Maybe Orochimaru is gonna use the 6th Zetsu to revive Izuna just to mess with Madara. xD

J Ken
2nd February 2013, 7:02 PM
Maybe Orochimaru is gonna use the 6th Zetsu to revive Izuna just to mess with Madara. xD

Or maybe Rin.

Lorde
2nd February 2013, 7:58 PM
Or maybe Rin.

What would that accomplish though? I'm more inclined to believe that he would revive Izuna, who was probably just as powerful as Madara when he was alive. It would also be a good way to showcase Izuna's Mangekyo Sharingan, which we know almost nothing about.

pwnswitchclik
2nd February 2013, 8:06 PM
What would that accomplish though? I'm more inclined to believe that he would revive Izuna, who was probably just as powerful as Madara when he was alive. It would also be a good way to showcase Izuna's Mangekyo Sharingan, which we know almost nothing about.

Playing mind games with Obito, who knows.

I was pondering the possibility of Orochimaru Edo Tenseiing say, Danzo the way Kabuto did with Madara, for something big he might have up his sleeve, or who knows, the Sage of Six Paths so he would, speculation-wise, take control of the Juubi.

SharpedoX
2nd February 2013, 11:56 PM
I was pondering the possibility of Orochimaru Edo Tenseiing say, Danzo the way Kabuto did with Madara, for something big he might have up his sleeve, or who knows, the Sage of Six Paths so he would, speculation-wise, take control of the Juubi.


You know, that was actually on my mind. We still have the mystery of the Sage of the Six Paths' face and all. I really hope, with all that's been going on, that's also a possibility.

Shneak
3rd February 2013, 6:18 AM
Might as well get it over with. Sage of Six Paths gets revived, pissed that his pets are being used for this, and kills everyone. Then a new era of ninjas begin and Kishi starts Naruto 2 or something.

Shadow Lucario
3rd February 2013, 6:35 AM
Do they have any DNA from the Sage of the Six Paths? If not then there goes that dream.

Lorde
3rd February 2013, 7:03 AM
Do they have any DNA from the Sage of the Six Paths? If not then there goes that dream.

Well we're talking about Orochimaru, the man who seems to know about everything in the Naruto universe. It's quite possible that he found the Sage of Six Paths' grave at some point and collected DNA. Although to be quite honest, I hope it doesn't come to that. We don't need any more overpowered characters in this manga imo.

-Raiga-
3rd February 2013, 8:19 PM
There's a difference between over-analyzing and noticing major plotholes.

My point is that people spent hours typing up theories that are answered a week later. Remember all the MAJOR plotholes with obito being tobi? Me neither, because in 2-3 weeks virtually everything was explained.

Lorde
3rd February 2013, 9:35 PM
Me neither, because in 2-3 weeks virtually everything was explained.

Not really. We still don't know why Obito went to Kirigakure, or what the whole purpose of the Kyuubi attack on Konoha was; the latter seems like it needs to be explained the most since Obito virtually admitted that it wasn't the right time to start his plan to capture the nine Bijuu.

-Raiga-
4th February 2013, 1:49 AM
Not really. We still don't know why Obito went to Kirigakure, or what the whole purpose of the Kyuubi attack on Konoha was; the latter seems like it needs to be explained the most since Obito virtually admitted that it wasn't the right time to start his plan to capture the nine Bijuu.

Thus why I said virtually. And by major, I'm talking about how someone can live after being crushed by a 2 ton rock.

TsukiMirage
4th February 2013, 4:49 AM
My point is that people spent hours typing up theories that are answered a week later. Remember all the MAJOR plotholes with obito being tobi? Me neither, because in 2-3 weeks virtually everything was explained. Which again, is different then noticing big plotholes. And we're talking about a plothole that has been for a hundred some chapters.

There's still no explanation as to why the Ame orphans were young, how Madara knew of Obito, how Madara even transferred his eyes to Nagato or where he got another Sharingan from, how he fount Nagato in the first place, the whole situation involving his control of Kiri or when it would have happen, what reason was there behind Rin dying, or why he attacked Konoha instead of proceeding with the Moon Eye plan. Virtually everything wasn't explain. The only things that were explain was how Obito knew all that he did and his survival.

HoennMaster
4th February 2013, 5:20 AM
? Why the Ame orphans were young? What do you mean?

Platinum fan.
4th February 2013, 2:23 PM
Which again, is different then noticing big plotholes. And we're talking about a plothole that has been for a hundred some chapters.

There's still no explanation as to why the Ame orphans were young, how Madara knew of Obito, how Madara even transferred his eyes to Nagato or where he got another Sharingan from, how he fount Nagato in the first place, the whole situation involving his control of Kiri or when it would have happen, what reason was there behind Rin dying, or why he attacked Konoha instead of proceeding with the Moon Eye plan. Virtually everything wasn't explain. The only things that were explain was how Obito knew all that he did and his survival.

Either Kishi is hoping we forget all that or he has plans to explain it when Madara is about to die and we get the "Madara backstory before death" scene. The latter seems more likely in this case. I'm sure everything will be explained but I don't know if it will mesh together well.

Lorde
4th February 2013, 9:37 PM
Either Kishi is hoping we forget all that or he has plans to explain it when Madara is about to die and we get the "Madara backstory before death" scene. The latter seems more likely in this case. I'm sure everything will be explained but I don't know if it will mesh together well.

Given recent events, I highly doubt that all of Kishi's explanations will mesh well. There are just too many holes that need to be filled, and I can already tell that many of the explanations will be riddled with deus ex machina and other convenient plot devices (like Orochimaru). Still, I guess it's better to have Kishi's official version of things than open-ended situations. I just don't want any more random solutions like the shinigami mask that allows someone to break the shinigami's seal, which I found ridiculous.

TsukiMirage
4th February 2013, 11:54 PM
? Why the Ame orphans were young? What do you mean? When Nagato told Naruto about his past, we were shown the Ame orphans nearly adults during the middle of the war between Iwa, Suna, and Konoha (the Third War) when Yahiko was killed. But Obito's flashback have them appearing younger after the Third War had ended, including Yahiko.


Either Kishi is hoping we forget all that or he has plans to explain it when Madara is about to die and we get the "Madara backstory before death" scene. The latter seems more likely in this case. I'm sure everything will be explained but I don't know if it will mesh together well. Likely won't mesh together unless he recons something, like how he recon the age Kakashi graduated to fit into Obito's past.

HoennMaster
5th February 2013, 12:51 AM
I don't recall these chapters completely....but weren't they kids during the Second War and young adults during the Third War?

-Raiga-
5th February 2013, 12:55 AM
Which again, is different then noticing big plotholes. And we're talking about a plothole that has been for a hundred some chapters.

There's still no explanation as to why the Ame orphans were young, how Madara knew of Obito, how Madara even transferred his eyes to Nagato or where he got another Sharingan from, how he fount Nagato in the first place, the whole situation involving his control of Kiri or when it would have happen, what reason was there behind Rin dying, or why he attacked Konoha instead of proceeding with the Moon Eye plan. Virtually everything wasn't explain. The only things that were explain was how Obito knew all that he did and his survival.

I really don't consider a single one of these, a plot hole. A plot hole is something not included in a finished story, guess what, the story is not finished.

And personally, I'd rather the story move along and not include trivial stuff like madara transferring his eyes.(seriously, who cares, especially when you consider the world they live it, this shouldn't be difficult at all)


? Why the Ame orphans were young? What do you mean?

Haha, I don't even know who the hell the ame orphans are, must have missed that chapter.

gohan5
5th February 2013, 1:08 AM
I really don't consider a single one of these, a plot hole. A plot hole is something not included in a finished story, guess what, the story is not finished.

And personally, I'd rather the story move along and not include trivial stuff like madara transferring his eyes.(seriously, who cares, especially when you consider the world they live it, this shouldn't be difficult at all)

Those are still plotholes, or unanswered questions if you prefer.

It's not the process of the eye transfer, of course nobody cares about that, but where he got the new Sharingan from. That is important because each Sharingan is different and holds different abilities, so yeah that's kinda big :P


Haha, I don't even know who the hell the ame orphans are, must have missed that chapter.

Yahiko, Nagato, and Konan, otherwise known as the Ame orphans.

Lorde
5th February 2013, 1:10 AM
When Nagato told Naruto about his past, we were shown the Ame orphans nearly adults during the middle of the war between Iwa, Suna, and Konoha (the Third War) when Yahiko was killed. But Obito's flashback have them appearing younger after the Third War had ended, including Yahiko.

I never noticed this. But it wouldn't surprise me given the sheer amount of timeline inconsistencies that Kishi has run into.

Still, I don't really think that his explanation for Obito's fall into darkness was that bad. I just think Kishi should have given us all the information in that one flashback instead of skipping it/waiting for a later time to explain it. I'd rather have all the information at once than wait months or even years before getting the whole picture.

TsukiMirage
5th February 2013, 6:05 AM
I don't recall these chapters completely....but weren't they kids during the Second War and young adults during the Third War? Yeah, they were specifically ten at the end of the Second War.


I really don't consider a single one of these, a plot hole. A plot hole is something not included in a finished story, guess what, the story is not finished. They're still plotholes that have yet to be explained, which was the point. None of those things got answered in the following chapter or beyond. And aside from the issue with Rin, it seems quite unlikely any of those questions would be answered.


And personally, I'd rather the story move along and not include trivial stuff like madara transferring his eyes.(seriously, who cares, especially when you consider the world they live it, this shouldn't be difficult at all) Madara giving his eyes to Nagato, which would have made him blind, and then transplanting a new Sharingan is sort of important. Kind of implies that Madara had another partner or something, since he couldn't have done so on his own.


Still, I don't really think that his explanation for Obito's fall into darkness was that bad. I just think Kishi should have given us all the information in that one flashback instead of skipping it/waiting for a later time to explain it. I'd rather have all the information at once than wait months or even years before getting the whole picture. The explanation itself wasn't that bad, but it could have used more foreshadowing further back, like him actually paying attention to Kakashi and making snide comments during their previous encounters. Could have also done less with the Madara/Izuna implications.

gohan5
5th February 2013, 7:12 AM
The explanation itself wasn't that bad, but it could have used more foreshadowing further back, like him actually paying attention to Kakashi and making snide comments during their previous encounters. Could have also done less with the Madara/Izuna implications.

I can somewhat let that slide, considering that he pretty much accomplished the mission given to him by Madara. His whole persona as the masked man was to actually make the world believe that Madara was still alive, so in a way, Kishi did do that right by not outright dropping Obito hints. Though whether or not that was his original intention or just a lucky coincidence, you be the judge :P I do agree that it did all just sort of feel too convenient that we just found all that out recently, but eh I guess you have to gloss over some things when the storyline is so big and filled with so many characters.

Lorde
5th February 2013, 8:53 AM
The new chapter didn't really reveal much; most of the stuff that the Hokage mentioned were things we already knew. The only new thing that was mentioned (by Tobirama) was that love thing, which made no sense to me. It's almost as if Kishi wants us to feel bad for the evil Uchiha clan members, but I'm not buying it. I hope the next chapter is more revealing.

lolipiece
5th February 2013, 9:48 AM
This power of love thing is stupid....

So, basically, when an Uchiha loses their love, it turns into DARKNESS and gives them bullcrap eye powers?

That's completely dumb.

Kamex
5th February 2013, 10:09 AM
The explanation itself wasn't that bad, but it could have used more foreshadowing further back, like him actually paying attention to Kakashi and making snide comments during their previous encounters. Could have also done less with the Madara/Izuna implications.
If all that happened it would have been a little too obvious. Kishi was definitely trying to keep the possibility of Tobi being Madara or Obito or Izuna or whoever open until the very end in order to keep people guessing and interested, which obviously worked.

At first I thought this love-explanation just kinda came out of nowhere, but it does sort of make sense considering each of the Uchiha villains' relationship issues. Plus this kind of reinforces the validity of Rin's death being the trigger of Obito's transformation into Tobi.

Also, I guess it's now almost confirmed that Izuna really did offer his eyes to Madara, which would probably make Tobi's entire explanation true. Interesting.

7 tyranitars
5th February 2013, 11:22 AM
Interesting, at first the love explaination was kinda out of nowhere, but when I thought about it a bit better it does fit everything Madara, Obito and Sasuke did.

I kinda like the Shidaime's interactions with the other kages, and especialy his reaction to Tsunade being the 5th hokage.

insanejames
5th February 2013, 1:26 PM
Which again, is different then noticing big plotholes. And we're talking about a plothole that has been for a hundred some chapters.

There's still no explanation as to why the Ame orphans were young, how Madara knew of Obito, how Madara even transferred his eyes to Nagato or where he got another Sharingan from, how he fount Nagato in the first place, the whole situation involving his control of Kiri or when it would have happen, what reason was there behind Rin dying, or why he attacked Konoha instead of proceeding with the Moon Eye plan. Virtually everything wasn't explain. The only things that were explain was how Obito knew all that he did and his survival.

the orphans and the eyes i can't explain, but Rin's death i think i have and idea of or a few of them. The one thing that is consistent is that it was a setup by Madara to get Obito on his side.
My reason for this, is that Obito "escapes" too easily and the timing is too coincidental. He emerges just to see Kakashi kill Rin, thus turning Obito to Madara side. One of my theories on how he did this, was that it was a Zetsu clone killing Rin or a Rin could of been a clone as well, meaning the whole entire thing was staged. Or more likey Madara put Kakashi in a situation where he had no choice or it was the most merciful thing to do, was to kill her. eg, she was a traitor or to prevent her being captured and tortured.

waffle_x_v
5th February 2013, 2:31 PM
I like mild orichimaru. Pretty interesting chapter, and entertaining no less. Makes you wonder what sasuke will do now...

OrcaCity
5th February 2013, 2:39 PM
I just wonder if we'll see Naruto fight his dad. I can't wait to see what happens.

PokeMaster366
5th February 2013, 2:57 PM
Only real highlight of this chapter was Hashirama's personality. We already heard most of the other information, and the whole "power of love" thing is just one of those things that you would expect most people to pass off as total BS. I wonder how Hashirama will react when someone tells him that Madara has been revived?

uber gon
5th February 2013, 6:04 PM
Funny how the second Hokage caused some of the bad things during this arc.

TsukiMirage
5th February 2013, 6:49 PM
Interesting chapter. Expected the whole love angle, simply from how the relationships were shown, but don't know what to make of the whole "science" behind awakening the Sharingan. And Hashirama's personality is disappointing, way to much like Naruto's to be enjoyable. Tobirama on the otherhand was like I thought. Can't wait to hear what Hashirama and Minato tell Sasuke next. Good chapter.

Lorde
5th February 2013, 6:55 PM
I don't like the way Tobirama was portrayed; he basically admitted that he was prejudice against the Uchiha, which only made Sasuke angrier. Still, I loved Hashirama in this chapter; his comment about whether the village was fine with Tsunade as Hokage was funny, and it seems she inherited her gambling obsession from Hashirama himself.

gohan5
5th February 2013, 7:20 PM
I don't like the way Tobirama was portrayed; he basically admitted that he was prejudice against the Uchiha, which only made Sasuke angrier. Still, I loved Hashirama in this chapter; his comment about whether the village was fine with Tsunade as Hokage was funny, and it seems she inherited her gambling obsession from Hashirama himself.

Actually, that was the best thing about Tobirama and this chapter for me. They made it clear that even though he and Hashirama were brothers, they didn't see eye to eye about how to run the village and everything. It makes him more of a person in my eyes, and not just Hashirama's brother. It also gives me a bit more depth into his character, as before I couldn't see how he could have possibly invented the Edo Tensei.

Kamex
5th February 2013, 7:33 PM
the orphans and the eyes i can't explain, but Rin's death i think i have and idea of or a few of them. The one thing that is consistent is that it was a setup by Madara to get Obito on his side.
My reason for this, is that Obito "escapes" too easily and the timing is too coincidental. He emerges just to see Kakashi kill Rin, thus turning Obito to Madara side. One of my theories on how he did this, was that it was a Zetsu clone killing Rin or a Rin could of been a clone as well, meaning the whole entire thing was staged. Or more likey Madara put Kakashi in a situation where he had no choice or it was the most merciful thing to do, was to kill her. eg, she was a traitor or to prevent her being captured and tortured.
More likely the latter, because if Rin was a clone (and especially if Kakashi was a clone) then there would be a discrepancy considering Kakashi admits that he let Rin die. This could be explained somehow but it would be more complicated.


And Hashirama's personality is disappointing, way to much like Naruto's to be enjoyable.
I agree... it was nice to be surprised, but I think it sort of takes away from the excitement of someone as goofy as Naruto becoming Hokage if the first was already like that. I personally wish we saw more of Kushina's comical side though.



I don't like the way Tobirama was portrayed; he basically admitted that he was prejudice against the Uchiha, which only made Sasuke angrier. Still, I loved Hashirama in this chapter; his comment about whether the village was fine with Tsunade as Hokage was funny, and it seems she inherited her gambling obsession from Hashirama himself.
Hashirama was funny, but I'm glad Tobirama was portrayed sort of "war-hawk"-like. At the least, he can act as a foil towards Hashirama, plus it would make more sense to me if the previous Hokage were more stern and serious, considering the times they lived in and the issues they had to face.

EDIT: Yeah, and I second what gohan5 said too. Haha.

Shadow Lucario
5th February 2013, 8:19 PM
I don't think Hashirama is like Naruto at all. He's not exactly goofy. It's just as Suigetsu said; he has no dignity. He let his little brother tell him STFU and didn't even fight back. Seems like Hiruzen is kind of pissed off that he sacrificed himself and Orochimaru got his arms back anyway.

Lorde
5th February 2013, 8:26 PM
I actually really dislike the way Tobirama treated his brother. I never expected him to be submissive to him or anything, but it was still really rude how he shut him up like that. And like I said before, any changes in Sasuke's attitude towards the village were pretty much shot down the moment Tobirama started bad-mouthing the Uchiha clan. It looks like it's up to Hashirama to explain things. Hopefully Sasuke won't disrespect him; he gets enough of that from his brother. :x

Also, just a quick comment, but how come Minato addressed Orochimaru as "Orochimaru-san"? Why use honorifics after the way Orochimaru betrayed the village?

7 tyranitars
5th February 2013, 8:27 PM
I actually really dislike the way Tobirama treated his brother. I never expected him to be submissive to him or anything, but it was still really rude how he shut him up like that. And like I said before, any changes in Sasuke's attitude towards the village were pretty much shot down the moment Tobirama started bad-mouthing the Uchiha clan. It looks like it's up to Hashirama to explain things. Hopefully Sasuke doesn't disrespect him; he gets enough of that from his brother. :x

Also, just a quick comment, but how come Minato addressed Orochimaru was "Orochimaru-san"? Why use honorifics after the way Orochimaru betrayed the village?

I think orochimaru betrayed the village after his death.

gohan5
5th February 2013, 8:30 PM
I think orochimaru betrayed the village after his death.

You're right, it was during the Third's second term. I just chalk it up to Minato being a respectful guy.

Lorde
5th February 2013, 8:31 PM
I think orochimaru betrayed the village after his death.

But didn't Minato claim that he knew things that had happened in the real world while he was sealed in Naruto (like Jiraiya's death for example)? If so, he should have known about Orochimaru's defection and all the other stuff he started afterwards.


I just chalk it up to Minato being a respectful guy.

I guess. I wonder how he'll react when he finds out that his own student started the current war. :p

Shadow Lucario
5th February 2013, 8:42 PM
But didn't Minato claim that he knew things that had happened in the real world while he was sealed in Naruto (like Jiraiya's death for example)? If so, he should have known about Orochimaru's defection and all the other stuff he started afterwards.

I think it's just because he's respectful. It's basically the same reason Sasuke doesn't use honorifics for anybody. After his clan was killed he didn't care anymore so he doesn't use them. Minato cares though.

EDIT: I noticed a small error in the chapter when I was reading it again. When Sasuke activated his Mangekyou Sharingan, it took the shape of his original one, not the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan.

Platinum fan.
5th February 2013, 9:11 PM
Arrgh! I had no idea a new chapter was out today. I just found out. I don't keep up with release dates. The chapter was alright. I liked that the 3rd Hokage realized he died in vain because he did and I enjoyed the 1st Hokage's personality. Much more personality when he first was Edo Tenseied that's for sure. I actually like that the 2nd Hokage is a jerk. He feels real. Not everyone in Konoha is going to be a kiss up. I also enjoyed him being annoyed seeing Orochimaru again. "This Orochimaru guy again?" That was great. The explaining stuff was a bit boring, the whole love equals Sharingan thing. Yeah, sure, whatever. Minato didn't really say much this chapter. Overall a decent chapter and I like that Tobirama was a jerk to the Uchiha's. Not everyone in Konoha is a saint.

By the way, Minato called Orochimaru, Orochimaru-Sama. I figured that was because he was on the same team as his teacher, but still feels weird for a Hokage to show such respect to Orochimaru. Does he not know about the snake being evile?

EmphaticPikachu
5th February 2013, 9:13 PM
Two things. The hokage's personalities and the explanation of the Uchia clan were great to me.
the personalities were great, but as for the explanation...

Gosh, it feels like a genetic disorder that the Uciha have. Any person that is remotely unstable with emotions will likely break and create powerful eyes to express their emotions. The sharigan itself is what is really bad D:...

JD
5th February 2013, 9:34 PM
Hashirama reminds me of Goku.. they both are easily excited and goofy.

Shneak
5th February 2013, 10:10 PM
- Whoa, early chapter.
- A Cursed Clan! Boohoo, I'll play my tiny violin for the Uchihas.
- Haha, Hashirama. :3
- Christ, I can't tell who was alive when. I assumed everyone but Hiruzen died during their reign.
- Nope, the village got royally screwed.
- Oh wait, the First and Second know Orochimaru from Operation Destroy Konoha. Right.
- Sasuke has a protruding nose in these reaction panels. Kind of odd.

Interesting chapter. I didn't expect Tobirama to speak so much, so it's some new insight. I'm hoping Sasuke realized was Tobirama said, about emotions turning from love to hatred. Sasuke kept surprisingly calm.

J Ken
6th February 2013, 1:18 AM
This chapter revealed more of The First and Second's personality. It was good to see where Tsunade got her gambling habits from. Hashirama was unsurprisingly very Naruto like. Sasuke was very calm. The old one would have raged if the Uchihas were bad mouthed. He really is changing.


I noticed a small error in the chapter when I was reading it again. When Sasuke activated his Mangekyou Sharingan, it took the shape of his original one, not the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan.

Maybe it's possible that he can switch in between his Mangekyo and Eternal Mangekyo Sharingans?

EmphaticPikachu
6th February 2013, 1:38 AM
Maybe it's possible that he can switch in between his Mangekyo and Eternal Mangekyo Sharingans?

that could be true...

yet what exact use would a mangekyo sharingan be over an eternal one? doesn't the normal one...you know,make you go blind? XD

Heldigunner1
6th February 2013, 1:53 AM
kishimoto is known for making errors in his art. I wouldn't think to much into it.

EmphaticPikachu
6th February 2013, 1:56 AM
kishimoto is known for making errors in his art. I wouldn't think to much into it.

yeah, and he usually fixes them for the volume releases. .-...so then we'll see. (when ever those come out XD)

-Raiga-
6th February 2013, 2:01 AM
They're still plotholes that have yet to be explained, which was the point. None of those things got answered in the following chapter or beyond. And aside from the issue with Rin, it seems quite unlikely any of those questions would be answered.

Put it this way, unanswered questions are WHY people read a story manga. The only reason I want to read the next chapter, is because of the questions introduced in previous ones. And you can't possibly say questions won't go unanwered in naruto. Take people wondering what became of obito for instance, well, low and behold some 300 chapters later what gets answered?

If you ask me, the biggest flaw of this arc is how much it does reveal. I would have rather the previous kages and ninjas lied in mystery then know every little detail.

uber gon
6th February 2013, 3:53 AM
Either the Uchihas get some kind of magic mental illness for their bloodline limit, or generations of inbreeding have caused some major backlash on their sanity. Essentially the Uchihas are the manga version of the Targareyans.

Lorde
6th February 2013, 4:57 AM
What's up with Hashirama being called the God of Shinobi? I thought Hiruzen and the Sage of Six Paths were already called that. It no longer seems like an honorary title; it seems more like a rank since apparently any powerful ninja can be called the "God of Shinobi." Just watch Naruto be called that soon.

gohan5
6th February 2013, 5:55 AM
What's up with Hashirama being called the God of Shinobi? I thought Hiruzen and the Sage of Six Paths were already called that. It no longer seems like an honorary title; it seems more like a rank since apparently any powerful ninja can be called the "God of Shinobi." Just watch Naruto be called that soon.

That is weird, but yes all 3 ninja are referred to by that name. Seems like Kishi is running out of legendary monikers for all the high level shinobi. I don't know why everyone needs to have a nickname though.

TsukiMirage
6th February 2013, 6:20 AM
But didn't Minato claim that he knew things that had happened in the real world while he was sealed in Naruto (like Jiraiya's death for example)? If so, he should have known about Orochimaru's defection and all the other stuff he started afterwards. That was the portion Minato had left behind in Naruto, which got used up after the incident with Pain. Edo Minato shouldn't know anything about what happen after he did, though he should be aware that Orochimaru was a villain due to the whole Hokage conflict.


Put it this way, unanswered questions are WHY people read a story manga. The only reason I want to read the next chapter, is because of the questions introduced in previous ones. And you can't possibly say questions won't go unanwered in naruto. Take people wondering what became of obito for instance, well, low and behold some 300 chapters later what gets answered?

If you ask me, the biggest flaw of this arc is how much it does reveal. I would have rather the previous kages and ninjas lied in mystery then know every little detail. I won't disagree with that, but that's not always the way it works with Kishi. Kishi has done that quite a bit, leaving things hanging. Outside the databook answering things, unless we have a character connected to said question, odds are it's not gonna get answered. What became of Obito wasn't really a question though, since we really didn't have any reason to believe he hadn't died.

Why is it a flaw? One would expect that a plotline we had since the very beginning would eventually get explained.


Either the Uchihas get some kind of magic mental illness for their bloodline limit, or generations of inbreeding have caused some major backlash on their sanity. Essentially the Uchihas are the manga version of the Targareyans. Not really. Tobirama's prejudice is just that, prejudice. There were hundreds of Uchihas, yet only two became a threat to Konoha and only because they got manipulated by outside forces. His claims really don't hold much water.

HoennMaster
6th February 2013, 9:25 AM
I have to admit the love thing was kind of a WTF moment. Hashirama's personality was kind of strange to see. Kind of weird to think he created Konoha and was so serious in battle.


I actually really dislike the way Tobirama treated his brother. I never expected him to be submissive to him or anything, but it was still really rude how he shut him up like that. And like I said before, any changes in Sasuke's attitude towards the village were pretty much shot down the moment Tobirama started bad-mouthing the Uchiha clan. It looks like it's up to Hashirama to explain things. Hopefully Sasuke won't disrespect him; he gets enough of that from his brother. :x

Also, just a quick comment, but how come Minato addressed Orochimaru as "Orochimaru-san"? Why use honorifics after the way Orochimaru betrayed the village?

In addition to what others said...Minato was a student of Jiraiya, so I assume he was acquainted with both Orochimaru and Tsunade.

PokeMaster366
6th February 2013, 2:30 PM
I have to admit the love thing was kind of a WTF moment. Hashirama's personality was kind of strange to see. Kind of weird to think he created Konoha and was so serious in battle.

Well, in the end, a leader is simply a beacon of hope for his people. They could have many jutsu like Orochimaru or be uber-powerful like the Jinchuriki or Madara. They could even be as tactical as Shikamaru, but what's the point if the leader isn't concerned with helping his people? I doubt people will want a leader that they know will only use them as a means to an end.

Locormus
6th February 2013, 3:49 PM
This power of love thing is stupid....

So, basically, when an Uchiha loses their love, it turns into DARKNESS and gives them bullcrap eye powers?

That's completely dumb.

If you love, you immediately also have the fear of losing said love, now.. in the words of Yoda: Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. That is the path to the darkside!

Now add to that a predetermined genetic condition in which you actually have an overabundance of love, and a tendency to overreact when said love/caring goes away? I mean there's a reason why Darth Vader turned to who he was..


Interesting chapter. Expected the whole love angle, simply from how the relationships were shown, but don't know what to make of the whole "science" behind awakening the Sharingan. And Hashirama's personality is disappointing, way to much like Naruto's to be enjoyable. Tobirama on the otherhand was like I thought. Can't wait to hear what Hashirama and Minato tell Sasuke next. Good chapter.

I'm betting that when Hashirama is talking, somebody will spoil the beans about the war.. And I don't care enough for Minato to think what he might have to say, at least nothing valuable for Sasuke's sake..


I don't like the way Tobirama was portrayed; he basically admitted that he was prejudice against the Uchiha, which only made Sasuke angrier. Still, I loved Hashirama in this chapter; his comment about whether the village was fine with Tsunade as Hokage was funny, and it seems she inherited her gambling obsession from Hashirama himself.

We always knew that he was kinda prejudice against the Uchiha, it was just common logic considering the times. I really like how he tried to hold up his convictions when Orochimaru told him.. "Nonsense!"

I really didn't like the first much in this.. I have to side with Suigetsu on this one.. How the heck can this be the guy that persuaded the Uchiha to stop fighting and join them (their sworn blood enemies) in the creation of a village.


Arrgh! I had no idea a new chapter was out today. I just found out. I don't keep up with release dates. The chapter was alright. I liked that the 3rd Hokage realized he died in vain because he did and I enjoyed the 1st Hokage's personality. Much more personality when he first was Edo Tenseied that's for sure. I actually like that the 2nd Hokage is a jerk. He feels real. Not everyone in Konoha is going to be a kiss up. I also enjoyed him being annoyed seeing Orochimaru again. "This Orochimaru guy again?" That was great. The explaining stuff was a bit boring, the whole love equals Sharingan thing. Yeah, sure, whatever. Minato didn't really say much this chapter. Overall a decent chapter and I like that Tobirama was a jerk to the Uchiha's. Not everyone in Konoha is a saint.

That's not what's written at all.. It's extreme anguish, caused by overflowing caring emotions turning to hate = Triggering of Genetically specific Chakra => Sharingan. Meaning it's quite the opposite of love = sharingan. Breaking hearts, and reacting with aggressive emotions = Sharingan. It's basically Kishi trying to talk-no-jutsu is into believing that the Uchiha aren't really that bad at all and are caring and loving deep down inside.

Like I said: Darth Vader. And don't forget what happened to him! :D


Two things. The hokage's personalities and the explanation of the Uchia clan were great to me.
the personalities were great, but as for the explanation...

Gosh, it feels like a genetic disorder that the Uciha have. Any person that is remotely unstable with emotions will likely break and create powerful eyes to express their emotions. The sharigan itself is what is really bad D:...

Nah, the sharingan ain't bad, it's just a symptom of a genetically predetermined set of chakra being released from the brain after being triggered. Don't hate the symptom, hate the underlying genetical illness! :D Don't hate the oral rash when the patient has Wegener's.. -.-


Either the Uchihas get some kind of magic mental illness for their bloodline limit, or generations of inbreeding have caused some major backlash on their sanity. Essentially the Uchihas are the manga version of the Targareyans.

As soon as I read 'inbreeding' I knew you were going to play the GoT-card.. xD

EmphaticPikachu
6th February 2013, 4:03 PM
Nah, the sharingan ain't bad, it's just a symptom of a genetically predetermined set of chakra being released from the brain after being triggered. Don't hate the symptom, hate the underlying genetical illness! :D Don't hate the oral rash when the patient has Wegener's.. -.-



Gives a new meaning to
"http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedEyesTakeWarning"
I guess...xD;

miles0624
6th February 2013, 4:10 PM
So Sharigan is the Naruto version of Darth Vadar. Nice

Also, for the God of ninja, I thought it was explained earlier that title is given to all hokage. I remember watching that on a toonami episode just a few weeks ago, so its back in the beginning. It said something along the lines of, "Hokage, also known as the God of Ninja, are the leader of our village, and each village has a distince leader." (paraphrase.) So I think that is given to each of the heads of villages.

I liked the interactions between the hokage. It was awesome. I mean, if you had been revived by this type of justu, and had free will, I would love to meet my decendants too. Fourth interacting with the first is nice.

I actually like the contrast between the first and second personality. I sure he is serious when he needs to be (as seen per flashbacks and when giving the control of the village to the third), but I find it awesome that he can have this comical side. Plus the way his brother talks to him is a lot like my younger brother talks to me. Reacts the same way I do too.

I give the chapter a pass. Love sasuke proclaiming he is not innocent. I was like "I knew Karin took his virginity." lol. ok, I'm out.

Heldigunner1
6th February 2013, 7:37 PM
i always thought the edo tensin couldn't effect you if you lost your soul, in the case of the 3rd and the 4th. i guess i was wrong.

Shadow Lucario
6th February 2013, 9:04 PM
Also, for the God of ninja, I thought it was explained earlier that title is given to all hokage. I remember watching that on a toonami episode just a few weeks ago, so its back in the beginning. It said something along the lines of, "Hokage, also known as the God of Ninja, are the leader of our village, and each village has a distince leader." (paraphrase.) So I think that is given to each of the heads of villages.

No, the nickname God of Shinobi has only been given to three (I thought only two) people. Those people are the Sage of the Six Paths, Hashirama, and Hiruzen. The heads of the villages are just Kages.


i always thought the edo tensin couldn't effect you if you lost your soul, in the case of the 3rd and the 4th. i guess i was wrong.

That was explained the chapter before this most recent one.

Shneak
6th February 2013, 10:02 PM
Frankly, I'm glad that Sasuke's dark turn against the Konoha is literally a mental illness. It redeems his character a bit, since he didn't exactly turn into a brooding emo by choice.

Lorde
6th February 2013, 10:31 PM
Frankly, I'm glad that Sasuke's dark turn against the Konoha is literally a mental illness. It redeems his character a bit, since he didn't exactly turn into a brooding emo by choice.

I don't think it's a mental illness per se though. I think the Uchiha just have very powerful emotions, which has been known for a while. I actually kind of like the fact that the Uchiha value love above all else and become crazed when they lose that. I just wish they would turn that hatred inward instead of using it to harm others.

Platinum fan.
6th February 2013, 11:16 PM
If you love, you immediately also have the fear of losing said love, now.. in the words of Yoda: Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. That is the path to the darkside!

Now add to that a predetermined genetic condition in which you actually have an overabundance of love, and a tendency to overreact when said love/caring goes away? I mean there's a reason why Darth Vader turned to who he was..



I'm betting that when Hashirama is talking, somebody will spoil the beans about the war.. And I don't care enough for Minato to think what he might have to say, at least nothing valuable for Sasuke's sake..



We always knew that he was kinda prejudice against the Uchiha, it was just common logic considering the times. I really like how he tried to hold up his convictions when Orochimaru told him.. "Nonsense!"

I really didn't like the first much in this.. I have to side with Suigetsu on this one.. How the heck can this be the guy that persuaded the Uchiha to stop fighting and join them (their sworn blood enemies) in the creation of a village.



That's not what's written at all.. It's extreme anguish, caused by overflowing caring emotions turning to hate = Triggering of Genetically specific Chakra => Sharingan. Meaning it's quite the opposite of love = sharingan. Breaking hearts, and reacting with aggressive emotions = Sharingan. It's basically Kishi trying to talk-no-jutsu is into believing that the Uchiha aren't really that bad at all and are caring and loving deep down inside.

Like I said: Darth Vader. And don't forget what happened to him! :D



Nah, the sharingan ain't bad, it's just a symptom of a genetically predetermined set of chakra being released from the brain after being triggered. Don't hate the symptom, hate the underlying genetical illness! :D Don't hate the oral rash when the patient has Wegener's.. -.-



As soon as I read 'inbreeding' I knew you were going to play the GoT-card.. xD

Oh? Is that how it works? I guess I was so bored with the thing I overlooked what the Sharingan was with love and junk. I admit that part bored me. At this point I don't really care what makes the Sharingan or what it is. I'm just sick to death of the thing.


As far as the Uchiha's go, has there ever been a truly good one that was innocent? I use to call Obito that Uchiha but as we are seeing now, he's probably the worst one of them all along with Madara.

Lorde
6th February 2013, 11:23 PM
As far as the Uchiha's go, has there ever been a truly good one that was innocent? I use to call Obito that Uchiha but as we are seeing now, he's probably the worst one of them all along with Madara.

Um, Shisui? And maybe Sasuke's mom and those two elderly Uchiha people. And if you ignore the massacre, I suppose Itachi might be considered innocent given his ideals.

gohan5
6th February 2013, 11:49 PM
I just wish they would turn that hatred inward instead of using it to harm others.

I think Itachi is the only one among them that actually took that approach and it ended up killing him (well along with the burden of killing his clan and having the weight of the village on his shoulders).

Platinum fan.
7th February 2013, 1:14 AM
Um, Shisui? And maybe Sasuke's mom and those two elderly Uchiha people. And if you ignore the massacre, I suppose Itachi might be considered innocent given his ideals.

For the record I do not count Itachi. Whatever the reason he still killed his entire clan including his mother who was suppose to be in on the whole takeover of Konoha. I wouldn't say she's 100% innocent either but she didn't seem evil at least. Shisui? I guess so. It's hard to remember every minor character in this series. I forgot Shisui even existed.

Edit: Itachi turned out not to be evil, and while he was trying to save the village it wasn't exactly innocent to kill his whole clan.

TsukiMirage
7th February 2013, 1:26 AM
As far as the Uchiha's go, has there ever been a truly good one that was innocent? I use to call Obito that Uchiha but as we are seeing now, he's probably the worst one of them all along with Madara. Literally innocent or "ninja" innocent, because there's a difference. So far the only real evil Uchiha has been Madara. All the others have been shown just like every other ninja. Obito and Sasuke are evil, but only because they got manipulated into evilness.

Platinum fan.
7th February 2013, 1:35 AM
Literally innocent or "ninja" innocent, because there's a difference. So far the only real evil Uchiha has been Madara. Obito and Sasuke are evil, but only because they got manipulated into evilness.

True, but I'm talking about a Uchiha who had nothing to do with the supposed takeover/coup of Konoha or didn't get manipulated into evil. That was what I was saying about the Uchihas. They either kill eachother, betray their allies, or just want to take over. Evil is a point of view as is good. From the Uchiha's point of view the coup was seen as good to help their clan after all. But it seems every Uchiha is tainted with either being turned evil like with Obito and Sasuke or wanting a hostile take over like the other clans of the Uchiha. And then there's the wildcard Itachi. Itachi wasn't evil but even he had to make some rough choices like killing his family. I mean is there any Uchiha that wasn't involved in some dark story that involved bertrayl? It really is a cursed clan. I suppose Shisui as Ciccone mentioned.

TsukiMirage
7th February 2013, 7:18 AM
Oh, I see. I would point out that the coup wasn't an attempt to take over or again, according to Itachi's flashback, it was a revolution to take back stolen political power. I don't believe anyone ever mentioned them wanting to control or rule Konoha. And Itachi only did what he did because Danzo threatened Sasuke, which was pretty much the same reason their parents didn't put up a fight.

The killing each other seems like it was only during Madara's era, as Sasuke's father warned him away from such power, and they created Izanami to counter fellow clansman who used Izanagi to change their fate. Anyway, it's not just Uchiha who get involved in betrayals and such. All the villages have such histories, including Konoha, who apparently has quite the dark history according to Kabuto and Itachi.

Locormus
7th February 2013, 4:07 PM
I think Itachi is the only one among them that actually took that approach and it ended up killing him (well along with the burden of killing his clan and having the weight of the village on his shoulders).

Hmm.. Now that we know that the Sharingan is actually a physical symptom of a bodily affect generated by overflowing feelings, maybe this is how we can explain Itachi's illness? As we can all now tell, giving into the overflowing emotions of anguish gives you the Sharingan and drives you down a dark path, further and further down as you go do to the specific chakra becoming more prevailing in your system.

Itachi, negated this feeling of overflowing emotions and didn't drop down that dark path. BUT, perhaps the Uchiha need that 'chakra' in order to cope with an underlying illness? Since Itachi pretty much stopped producing said chakra after gaining the Mangekyou Sharingan, could we assess that due to a lack of that specific chakra the underlying illness was given the oppurtunity to flourish?

Hence why Itachi was the only one we know of that became sick. He's pretty much the only Uchiha that didn't give into the path of hatred/induced with culmulating levels of specific sharingan inducing chakra.

If you don't go down the dark path as an Uchiha, you get overthrown by an inherent illness and die eitherway. If anything, it's pretty much dieing of 'heartbreak'.. In any case, if this is true: You either go down a darkpath, or die of illness.. If so, then we should all be able to conclude that the Uchiha are indeed cursed.

7 tyranitars
7th February 2013, 4:21 PM
Hmm.. Now that we know that the Sharingan is actually a physical symptom of a bodily affect generated by overflowing feelings, maybe this is how we can explain Itachi's illness? As we can all now tell, giving into the overflowing emotions of anguish gives you the Sharingan and drives you down a dark path, further and further down as you go do to the specific chakra becoming more prevailing in your system.

Itachi, negated this feeling of overflowing emotions and didn't drop down that dark path. BUT, perhaps the Uchiha need that 'chakra' in order to cope with an underlying illness? Since Itachi pretty much stopped producing said chakra after gaining the Mangekyou Sharingan, could we assess that due to a lack of that specific chakra the underlying illness was given the oppurtunity to flourish?

Hence why Itachi was the only one we know of that became sick. He's pretty much the only Uchiha that didn't give into the path of hatred/induced with culmulating levels of specific sharingan inducing chakra.

If you don't go down the dark path as an Uchiha, you get overthrown by an inherent illness and die eitherway. If anything, it's pretty much dieing of 'heartbreak'.. In any case, if this is true: You either go down a darkpath, or die of illness.. If so, then we should all be able to conclude that the Uchiha are indeed cursed.

Shisui didn't either.

Locormus
7th February 2013, 5:17 PM
Shisui didn't either.

Irrelevant, he killed himself.. :P

OrcaCity
7th February 2013, 6:58 PM
This was a pretty good chapter. It was nice to have some comic relief. Throughout the speech about the Uchihas, though, I was just sitting there thinking "No no no no quiet. You're making it worse."

Platinum fan.
7th February 2013, 7:09 PM
Oh, I see. I would point out that the coup wasn't an attempt to take over or again, according to Itachi's flashback, it was a revolution to take back stolen political power. I don't believe anyone ever mentioned them wanting to control or rule Konoha. And Itachi only did what he did because Danzo threatened Sasuke, which was pretty much the same reason their parents didn't put up a fight.

The killing each other seems like it was only during Madara's era, as Sasuke's father warned him away from such power, and they created Izanami to counter fellow clansman who used Izanagi to change their fate. Anyway, it's not just Uchiha who get involved in betrayals and such. All the villages have such histories, including Konoha, who apparently has quite the dark history according to Kabuto and Itachi.

Really? I was always under the impression the coup would be hostile. I didn't think they would kill anyone but still force their... demands I guess to the leaders of Konoha. I guess I misread the Uchiha coup then.

TsukiMirage
7th February 2013, 7:39 PM
True, a coup in nature is hostile, but the Uchiha clan seem to be gambling that Konoha would cave in and return their political power. Both Obito and Itachi show they were in negotiations with Sarutobi, so it appears like they were willing to make a deal.

Platinum fan.
7th February 2013, 8:30 PM
Ugh, I need to reread Naruto. I'm getting stuff mixed up. It's not my fault though! The stories, especially Uchiha related stuff gets changed/expanded on like everytime they are explained. One minute Itachi is killing his family in cold blood in front of Sasuke and it was a popular rumor that he did it to gain access to the Akatsuki, then we learned he did it to save the village, and later we even learned he got to talk with his parents before killing them. I admit I enjoyed Itachi's story but all the Naruto twist and turn stories can be hard to follow, especially if you only reread it once it's in volume form. I need a Naruto refreshment so bad DX

Lorde
7th February 2013, 9:13 PM
True, a coup in nature is hostile, but the Uchiha clan seem to be gambling that Konoha would cave in and return their political power. Both Obito and Itachi show they were in negotiations with Sarutobi, so it appears like they were willing to make a deal.

But the reason why Itachi murdered his clan was because the negotiations weren't working and a compromise between the village and the clan couldn't be reached. I think it's apparent that the Uchiha were planning to overthrow the Hokage and start a civil war from the beginning (which would've been hostile), otherwise Hiruzen and the others wouldn't have planned to exterminate them. After reading the last chapter though, I kind of sympathize with the Uchiha since they just wanted equal treatment.

gohan5
7th February 2013, 9:43 PM
Ugh, I need to reread Naruto. I'm getting stuff mixed up. It's not my fault though! The stories, especially Uchiha related stuff gets changed/expanded on like everytime they are explained. One minute Itachi is killing his family in cold blood in front of Sasuke and it was a popular rumor that he did it to gain access to the Akatsuki, then we learned he did it to save the village, and later we even learned he got to talk with his parents before killing them. I admit I enjoyed Itachi's story but all the Naruto twist and turn stories can be hard to follow, especially if you only reread it once it's in volume form. I need a Naruto refreshment so bad DX

I don't blame you at all, it does get quite confusing trying to piece all this stuff together. One of the biggest things for me about that was Sasuke first activated his Sharingan then. Not that it couldn't have happened, it was just one of those moments where the early manga didn't show that.

7 tyranitars
7th February 2013, 11:20 PM
I don't blame you at all, it does get quite confusing trying to piece all this stuff together. One of the biggest things for me about that was Sasuke first activated his Sharingan then. Not that it couldn't have happened, it was just one of those moments where the early manga didn't show that.

Actualy later it showed that he first activated his Sharingan when Itachi killed his clan, but he forgot.

gohan5
7th February 2013, 11:47 PM
Actualy later it showed that he first activated his Sharingan when Itachi killed his clan, but he forgot.

Yeah I know that, I was just pointing out that while it makes sense it was one of those wtf plot twist moments in the manga.

TsukiMirage
8th February 2013, 2:02 AM
But the reason why Itachi murdered his clan was because the negotiations weren't working and a compromise between the village and the clan couldn't be reached. I think it's apparent that the Uchiha were planning to overthrow the Hokage and start a civil war from the beginning (which would've been hostile), otherwise Hiruzen and the others wouldn't have planned to exterminate them. After reading the last chapter though, I kind of sympathize with the Uchiha since they just wanted equal treatment. Itachi didn't murder his clan because negotiations weren't working, he murdered his clan because Danzo threatened Sasuke's life if he didn't. The negotiations were never said not to be working. Danzo and the Elders wanted to exterminate them, but not Hiruzen, and we already saw Danzo willing to exterminate a group that wasn't posing a threat (Yahiko and his followers who were working towards peace).

Kamex
8th February 2013, 7:27 AM
If you ask me, the biggest flaw of this arc is how much it does reveal. I would have rather the previous kages and ninjas lied in mystery then know every little detail.


Why is it a flaw? One would expect that a plotline we had since the very beginning would eventually get explained.

I agree with Raiga, I think a story is much better off being selective with which parts of the plot/characters/world to go into detail about and which parts to leave open for interpretation/as a mystery. In my opinion it was way too convenient to have an arc full of every dead character with "unfinished business" to make amends or whatever with the living characters... it's very unrealistic and kind of takes away from the power of, for example, Gaara having had a strict, cold father being part of the influence that put him through everything he went through before finally changing, now that they're apparently on good terms.

That being said, I wouldn't mind flashbacks or side stories involving the characters of the past. I just generally like dead characters to stay dead.

Shadow Lucario
8th February 2013, 7:44 AM
That being said, I wouldn't mind flashbacks or side stories involving the characters of the past. I just generally like dead characters to stay dead.

Well, they are still dead. They're just being summoned for the time being. It's not like Dragon Ball or Shaman King where one character can die and you'll just say, "Eh. They'll be back later."

Joltik-Kid
8th February 2013, 7:55 AM
Itachi didn't murder his clan because negotiations weren't working, he murdered his clan because Danzo threatened Sasuke's life if he didn't. The negotiations were never said not to be working. Danzo and the Elders wanted to exterminate them, but not Hiruzen, and we already saw Danzo willing to exterminate a group that wasn't posing a threat (Yahiko and his followers who were working towards peace).
But from the sounds of this chapter, Hiruzen agreed to the slaughter so Itachi could be a Spy against the Atasuki. Plus the third even mentioned bloodshed would occur, which is why Itachi was willing to prevent the coup, because he put the Leaf first.

Kamex
8th February 2013, 8:17 AM
Well, they are still dead. They're just being summoned for the time being. It's not like Dragon Ball or Shaman King where one character can die and you'll just say, "Eh. They'll be back later."
Well yeah, but I meant I'd rather they didn't return to the Earth as reanimated zombies (or in any other state for that matter), to keep the plot at least relatively realistic (ninjutsu and fantastical shounen elements aside of course), and for the other reasons I mentioned.

LexSuicune
8th February 2013, 5:03 PM
I for one am SUPER excited about the prospect of learning more about the personality, power and story behind the Niidaime Hokage, Tobirama Senju.

My favorite of the entire Kages for sure, he's super badass, and his personality seems so stern, cunning and witty.

Loves it.

TsukiMirage
8th February 2013, 6:06 PM
I agree with Raiga, I think a story is much better off being selective with which parts of the plot/characters/world to go into detail about and which parts to leave open for interpretation/as a mystery. In my opinion it was way too convenient to have an arc full of every dead character with "unfinished business" to make amends or whatever with the living characters... it's very unrealistic and kind of takes away from the power of, for example, Gaara having had a strict, cold father being part of the influence that put him through everything he went through before finally changing, now that they're apparently on good terms.

That being said, I wouldn't mind flashbacks or side stories involving the characters of the past. I just generally like dead characters to stay dead. I agree that some things could be left open to interpretation, but we're talking about a mystery that has been around since the very beginning. Given how much as been teased about what happen, it's nice to finally be getting the whole story. Plus the previous three Hokages really need the airtime, especially Tobirama.


But from the sounds of this chapter, Hiruzen agreed to the slaughter so Itachi could be a Spy against the Atasuki. Plus the third even mentioned bloodshed would occur, which is why Itachi was willing to prevent the coup, because he put the Leaf first. More like he accepted what had been done. Danzo pretty much told Itachi that he would. Even Obito admitted that Sarutobi was against killing the clan. And preventing the coup could have been achieved without bloodshed. But that would have meant giving the clan power, and the Elders were clearly against such an idea.

gohan5
8th February 2013, 6:21 PM
I agree that some things could be left open to interpretation, but we're talking about a mystery that has been around since the very beginning. Given how much as been teased about what happen, it's nice to finally be getting the whole story. Plus the previous three Hokages really need the airtime, especially Tobirama.

Yeah I like that some of these hazy questions are getting answered, because they're not small things. The only thing I don't like is how it was done with everyone being brought back to basically reveal a secret.

TsukiMirage
9th February 2013, 6:46 AM
I agree. Why bring back the Hokages when we had the two Elders who could have explained all this? The only reason I can see is Kishi simply didn't want to end things with the four eternally damned within the Shinigami.

gohan5
9th February 2013, 6:55 AM
I agree. Why bring back the Hokages when we had the two Elders who could have explained all this? The only reason I can see is Kishi simply didn't want to end things with the four eternally damned within the Shinigami.

Exactly, how much have the other elders done? I mean I don't know much more about them than that they were Sarutobi's teammates and tended to side with Danzo more than him. That's who we should be learning more about, but I guess maybe he couldn't think of anything.

Lorde
9th February 2013, 7:00 AM
Um, how would the elders know everything that happened since the founding of Konoha? They were just kids during the days that Hashirama and Tobirama were alive and at their peak. I highly doubt that they knew the things that Tobirama was talking about in this week's chapter, or the things that Hashirama will be talking about in the next chapter.

gohan5
9th February 2013, 7:08 AM
Um, how would the elders know everything that happened since the founding of Konoha? They were just kids during the days that Hashirama and Tobirama were alive and at their peak. I highly doubt that they knew the things that Tobirama was talking about in this week's chapter, or the things that Hashirama will be talking about in the next chapter.

I'm not saying they know everything about Konoha, but they surely knew about Itachi and the Uchiha massacre. For the rest, well some secrets just die with the founders. I think someone mentioned flashbacks or things akin to Kakahshi Gaiden would be a good way to go for that.

HoennMaster
9th February 2013, 8:00 AM
It's a simple thing called making it more interesting to your viewers. Bringing back the Hokages is far more cool than those two elders explaining stuff.

gohan5
9th February 2013, 8:42 AM
It's a simple thing called making it more interesting to your viewers. Bringing back the Hokages is far more cool than those two elders explaining stuff.

I too would like to see more about the Hokages, but I don't believe bringing them back was the only way to do it. Plus it loses the impact when they're some of the only people that hadn't been revived yet.

Kamex
9th February 2013, 8:52 AM
It's a simple thing called making it more interesting to your viewers. Bringing back the Hokages is far more cool than those two elders explaining stuff.
I mean, the elders could have explained the whole incident through flashbacks. That would have been interesting and would have involved the Third Hokage anyway, without needing to pull him out of the grave (or out of a Shinigami, same difference... bottom line is he's "passed on").

How would you feel if Jiraiya came back? He was given a satisfying and complete (albeit sad) exit from the story. Bringing characters back (even if they had a sudden or surprising demise) kind of disrespects the things they've done and the meaning of their death in the first place, in my opinion.

Although, I guess there's a fine line between whether it helps the story or not. For example, I guess it helped the overall plot to bring Madara back... so I'm a bit conflicted on that one. But bringing back 90% of the dead characters was much for me.

7 tyranitars
9th February 2013, 11:46 AM
I mean, the elders could have explained the whole incident through flashbacks. That would have been interesting and would have involved the Third Hokage anyway, without needing to pull him out of the grave (or out of a Shinigami, same difference... bottom line is he's "passed on").

How would you feel if Jiraiya came back? He was given a satisfying and complete (albeit sad) exit from the story. Bringing characters back (even if they had a sudden or surprising demise) kind of disrespects the things they've done and the meaning of their death in the first place, in my opinion.

Although, I guess there's a fine line between whether it helps the story or not. For example, I guess it helped the overall plot to bring Madara back... so I'm a bit conflicted on that one. But bringing back 90% of the dead characters was much for me.

It is to make the fourth shinobi world war more exciting, lets face it, those zetsus weren't all that strong to beat. They needed stronger opponents.

Platinum fan.
9th February 2013, 2:11 PM
It is to make the fourth shinobi world war more exciting, lets face it, those zetsus weren't all that strong to beat. They needed stronger opponents.

Lol, so they couldn't spend then chapters before the war having Tobi and what was left of the Akatsuki recruit new villain ninjas around the world that were actually alive? Surely every village has there own versions of Orochimaru who is trying to takeover and or destroy they're village from time to time. Why couldn't Kishi make up new villains for this war? The Edo Tensei zombies IMO were the worst aspect of this war, or at least one of them. It felt like lazy writing bringing dead warriors back to life to fight a war which should have introduced new villains for Naruto and friends to overcome. All these dead guys with legendary statuses pretty much just told the alliance how to beat them anyway unless Kabutomaru took control of them. We had some good fights in it, I will admit that, but it still felt like lazy writing and Edo Tensei became as cheap as the Sharingan. None of the Edo Tensei zombies were even that strong, nobody of importance died until Madara and Obito got their monster out. This Shinobi war has been anything but exciting to me.

TsukiMirage
10th February 2013, 12:02 AM
Um, how would the elders know everything that happened since the founding of Konoha? They were just kids during the days that Hashirama and Tobirama were alive and at their peak. I highly doubt that they knew the things that Tobirama was talking about in this week's chapter, or the things that Hashirama will be talking about in the next chapter. The Elders grew up alongside Sarutobi and was trained by both Hokages. They then went on to become part of the ruling force in Konoha, and directly contributed to the breakdown between Konoha and the Uchiha clan. They should know everything we're being told.

~Kurou
10th February 2013, 3:16 AM
I'm really happy they brought back the 4 hokages. It'll make the war soooooooooooo much more interesting. It'd be cool if Naruto ad to fight his own father like Gaara did.

And I think it's BS that Neji died. I feel he was a very interesting and important character. I like his death lines though, "Because I was called a genuis!"

HoennMaster
10th February 2013, 5:52 AM
Well someone had to be killed off. Should have been Lee but whatevs.

I doubt Naruto would fight Minato since Orochimaru already said he has no interest in the war.

~Kurou
10th February 2013, 5:04 PM
I think it should've been Tenten.......or Kiba. Kiba's a dick.

-Raiga-
10th February 2013, 8:13 PM
It's a simple thing called making it more interesting to your viewers. Bringing back the Hokages is far more cool than those two elders explaining stuff.

Interesting is one thing, using quite possibly the cheapest scape goat in manga history to simply revive anyone and everyone who mattered is another. But to set the record straight, I'm fine with THIS edo tensei, they aren't battling and I don't think they'll join the war like everyone seems to think(since orochimaru straight up said he wouldn't join it)


It is to make the fourth shinobi world war more exciting, lets face it, those zetsus weren't all that strong to beat. They needed stronger opponents.

Its worth noting, that if we're talking about how the war COULD have gone, it wouldn't have been hard to write zetsu as being a hell of lot stronger. And personally I would have given him one main body, which would make for a more interesting character, something we still, after all these chapters, haven't seen much of in him.

Lorde
10th February 2013, 11:01 PM
I think it should've been Tenten.......or Kiba. Kiba's a dick.

I don't really care for any of them, so none of their deaths would've bothered me. At least Neji's death allowed him to become free of his clan's "curse."

KantoLegends
11th February 2013, 1:26 AM
can someone clarify this for me.....i thought akatsuki needed to seal the beasts in order....but didn't they seal five and seven before the timeskip?

Lorde
11th February 2013, 3:09 AM
can someone clarify this for me.....i thought akatsuki needed to seal the beasts in order....but didn't they seal five and seven before the timeskip?

And the three-tails was sealed before the two-tails in the manga. There wasn't really a specific sealing order; the nine-tailed fox just needed to be sealed last.

HoennMaster
12th February 2013, 3:23 AM
I saw a post on a forum a few months ago that talked about that and I didn't even realize just how out of order the beasts have been sealed.

So it's Monday night and we have no new details at all yet? I'm getting too anxious here.

Question about last week's chapter though....first off....on the first page Orochimaru's face looks partly like Zetsu's but not on the second page...was this just an drawing error. Also...what happened to the remaining two Zetsu clones?

insanejames
12th February 2013, 11:54 AM
I saw a post on a forum a few months ago that talked about that and I didn't even realize just how out of order the beasts have been sealed.

So it's Monday night and we have no new details at all yet? I'm getting too anxious here.

Question about last week's chapter though....first off....on the first page Orochimaru's face looks partly like Zetsu's but not on the second page...was this just an drawing error. Also...what happened to the remaining two Zetsu clones?

They were killed. I belive (it) (hehe) by Suigetsu and Juugo. They were told to and I quote "take care of them."

Here is the part where they were assumedly killed.
http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/618/15

but then again he might have just body jumped in to one

HoennMaster
12th February 2013, 7:30 PM
I guess I don't pay attention that well lol. I just thought they restrained them and I forgot that Orochimaru transferred over to Zetsu's body.

Joltik-Kid
13th February 2013, 6:08 AM
We've got a spoiler image :P

http://www.imagebam.com/image/bc9518237048695

HoennMaster
13th February 2013, 7:08 AM
Well this is intriguing....

TsukiMirage
13th February 2013, 7:28 AM
Madara vs Hashiram flashback FTW. Looks like we'll be getting two chapters of it, given that's the last page.

Lorde
13th February 2013, 7:41 AM
I was less than impressed by this week's chapter. Most of the dialogue was boring and it wasn't until the end that we finally got to see something interesting. But I'm actually glad that Kishi is showing Hashirama vs. Madara; one of the video games showed a clip of that battle, but it was lame 'cause it was the programmers' interpretation of what happened.

HoennMaster
13th February 2013, 7:59 AM
Sometimes I hate following the translated version of this manga. Chapter was good all around but of course it ends at the best part.

As cliche as it is, I do kind of hope the past Hokages join the war after this. Can't wait to hear the creation of Konoha from Hashirama's POV.

Kind of funny, Tobirama always seemed like a quiet and reserved Hokage, but he's far from it.

Kamex
13th February 2013, 8:27 AM
Yeah Tobirama is pretty in your face. And even though he's being too confrontational and angry, I'm kind of glad that somebody there acknowledged the disrespect Sasuke and Orochimaru were showing to the leaders of the village by casually implying that Sasuke will destroy it if he feels like it.

I'm also starting to warm up to Hashirama's personality... it's cliche to have a comical character occasionally show his serious/ingenious/powerful side, but it makes sense for this character. It makes him easy to relate to, yet wise. I'm also glad that he showed Tobirama who's boss, particularly after Tobirama shut him up last chapter.

I don't understand why Orochimaru is suddenly being so helpful and loyal to Sasuke... I wonder if he has ulterior motives.

HoennMaster
13th February 2013, 8:33 AM
That's what I'm wondering. This Orochimaru almost scares me....he's so reserved. question about Orochimaru actually....I thought he got the ability to use his arms again after transferring bodies just before the timeskip?

waffle_x_v
13th February 2013, 9:55 AM
I'm starting to like orichimaru in each chapter that goes by.

Kamex
13th February 2013, 10:20 AM
That's what I'm wondering. This Orochimaru almost scares me....he's so reserved. question about Orochimaru actually....I thought he got the ability to use his arms again after transferring bodies just before the timeskip?
According to this (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Orochimaru), transferring to a new host didn't restore his arms enough to let him use hand seals. So I guess this is the first time he'll be able to use most of his jutsu since before the invasion and his battle with the Third Hokage. Not sure how he's planning on using his regained ninjutsu though...

7 tyranitars
13th February 2013, 12:40 PM
According to this (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Orochimaru), transferring to a new host didn't restore his arms enough to let him use hand seals. So I guess this is the first time he'll be able to use most of his jutsu since before the invasion and his battle with the Third Hokage. Not sure how he's planning on using his regained ninjutsu though...

While you mention it.. He never used handseals after his hands got sealed, even not when in another host. He did use summoning techniques though.

TsukiMirage
13th February 2013, 7:53 PM
Changing my opinion of Hashirama. He's not like Naruto, he can be serious when the time calls for it. Orochimaru shutting down Tobirama after he acts all tough was great. And Hashirama shows that even now, he's stronger then Madara, being able to overcome Edo Tensei without being released. His response to Sasuke's comment was a pretty diplomatic, not declaring the way that Sasuke should feel. Shame that the VotE fight was so late in the chapter and began halfway through. Still, excellent chapter.

Heldigunner1
13th February 2013, 9:13 PM
lol. the 2nd knows where he stands in comparison to the 1st. But the early generation ninja seem overpowered.

Platinum fan.
13th February 2013, 9:30 PM
Changing my opinion of Hashirama. He's not like Naruto, he can be serious when the time calls for it. Orochimaru shutting down Tobirama after he acts all tough was great. And Hashirama shows that even now, he's stronger then Madara, being able to overcome Edo Tensei without being released. His response to Sasuke's comment was a pretty diplomatic, not declaring the way that Sasuke should feel. Shame that the VotE fight was so late in the chapter and began halfway through. Still, excellent chapter.

Naruto can be pretty serious when the time calls for it too. More then half of Naruto in part 2 has been serious Naruto.

As for the chapter itself. I was bored. Not as good as last week. I chuckled at Orochimaru telling the Hokages that if they don't please Sasuke he might use them to crush leaf. It's suck up to Sasuke time XD, but really I'm glad we'll be getting into Hashirama and Madara's backstory and epic battle. This should be good. I hope it is. Overall I liked last weeks better. I really want to see how Hashirama beat Madara in the old days.

Shneak
13th February 2013, 9:49 PM
- I wish Tobirama would rush Sasuke, but that might spoil things.
- lol Suigetsu.
- Oh, so they know of Madara. Okay...
- So Orochimaru can control them even if they break out of the Edo Tensei's control?
- ...Except Hashirama.
- "Turn that frown upside down, Orochimaru!" :)
- Hashirama better be a good storyteller.

I like how we have to watch Hashirama vs Madara in the past to see Hashirama vs Madara in the present.

-Raiga-
13th February 2013, 10:46 PM
I'm starting to like orichimaru in each chapter that goes by.

Agreed. Before this he was a sadistic weirdo who slobbered over himself all the time, now he actually seems like a feasible person.

Lorde
13th February 2013, 11:17 PM
I'm also getting tired of the constant Itachi glorification. He used to be my favorite character, but now Kishi is going too far with the "he's a better ninja than Hashirama" thing.

HoennMaster
13th February 2013, 11:23 PM
Oh, so they know of Madara. Okay...

Why wouldn't they?

7 tyranitars
13th February 2013, 11:35 PM
Wow I am actualy starting to like Orochimaru.. he seems almost human.

Lorde
13th February 2013, 11:45 PM
Wow I am actualy starting to like Orochimaru.. he seems almost human.

Just wait till he tries to snatch Sasuke's body again, loses all the development he's gotten in this arc, and gets "killed" for the dozenth time.

pwnswitchclik
14th February 2013, 3:00 AM
Hashirama talking to Sasuke about Itachi like he knows him is kinda eyebrow rasing, maybe Orochi isn't the somewhat "immaculate saint" he is at the moment.

*Conspiracy Keanu face*

Platinum fan.
14th February 2013, 5:49 AM
I'm also getting tired of the constant Itachi glorification. He used to be my favorite character, but now Kishi is going too far with the "he's a better ninja than Hashirama" thing.

Pretty soon there is going to be a theory that Itachi secretly had the Rinnegan and just never used it. Joking of course.

Maybe I didn't read the chapter all the way through right or missed something but did it explain why Hashirama can suddenly resist Edo Tensei control when he couldn't the first time he was summoned? I know back then Orochimaru controlled and stopped his emotions with that kunai mind thingie but he hasn't done that here and Hashirama seems more free now then last time. Did I miss out on them explaining this?

HoennMaster
14th February 2013, 7:21 AM
They didn't really explain it, but as you mentioned, Orochimaru didn't restrict their emotions/etc when summoning them this time, while he did when he fought Hiruzen.

TsukiMirage
14th February 2013, 7:57 AM
Naruto can be pretty serious when the time calls for it too. More then half of Naruto in part 2 has been serious Naruto. Naruto spent the fight with Obito mocking him about his look and making declarations, allowing Obito not only to change tactics by reviving the Juubi but letting it evolve to the next level. Only time Naruto was really serious was against Pain. The rest of the time he was either being jokey, cocky, or whining about Sasuke.

Kamex
14th February 2013, 10:32 AM
Only time Naruto was really serious was against Pain. The rest of the time he was either being jokey, cocky, or whining about Sasuke.
I thought "whining about Sasuke" qualified as being serious.

Lorde
14th February 2013, 8:29 PM
Pretty soon there is going to be a theory that Itachi secretly had the Rinnegan and just never used it.

Y'all know that Itachi was the fourth Sage of Six Paths. :p

I was impressed by Hashirama in this chapter; not only did he show his serious side more, but he was apparently able to move on his own despite the fact that Orochimaru was restricting the others' movements. I guess it all comes down to that good old Hashirama DNA. That seems to be the answer to everything in this manga.

Kamex
14th February 2013, 8:44 PM
I was impressed by Hashirama in this chapter; not only did he show his serious side more, but he was apparently able to move on his own despite the fact that Orochimaru was restricting the others' movements. I guess it all comes down to that good old Hashirama DNA. That seems to be the answer to everything in this manga.
You'd think Tobirama or Tsunade would have benefited from that as well, but I guess not. Maybe Tobirama or Hashirama was adopted, since they look nothing alike.

Shneak
14th February 2013, 10:31 PM
Why wouldn't they?

I thought they thought that he was still masquerading as Tobi. I don't know how they know the real one was revived, but I guess Orochimaru knows all.

nuzamaki90
14th February 2013, 11:20 PM
Suigetsu's reactions to the Kages are just too much, I'm gonna die of laughter if this goes on any longer.

Cant wait to see the Hokages join the war (if they do), I just want to see Naruto fight Minato, Hashirama, and Old Man Third. The old guy never got to see Naruto's true power, Minato never even got 10 minutes with Naruto, and Hashirama just seems like Naruto's long lost ancestor imo, I mean, they act almost exactly alike.

Chapter was alright, just cant wait to see these guys fight, I'm tired of Sasuke's questions, because I have no doubt he's still going to try to destroy the Leaf, EVEN IF he helps the Alliance in the war.

7 tyranitars
14th February 2013, 11:40 PM
Suigetsu's reactions to the Kages are just too much, I'm gonna die of laughter if this goes on any longer.

Cant wait to see the Hokages join the war (if they do), I just want to see Naruto fight Minato, Hashirama, and Old Man Third. The old guy never got to see Naruto's true power, Minato never even got 10 minutes with Naruto, and Hashirama just seems like Naruto's long lost ancestor imo, I mean, they act almost exactly alike.

Chapter was alright, just cant wait to see these guys fight, I'm tired of Sasuke's questions, because I have no doubt he's still going to try to destroy the Leaf, EVEN IF he helps the Alliance in the war.

Orochimaru implied they can help fight against Madara.

EmphaticPikachu
15th February 2013, 3:36 PM
I'm pretty sure Orochimaru doesn't have any interest in the world becoming an endless Illusion where he has no control. lol So of course he'd want to let them help the alliance.

7 tyranitars
15th February 2013, 5:06 PM
I'm pretty sure Orochimaru doesn't have any interest in the world becoming an endless Illusion where he has no control. lol So of course he'd want to let them help the alliance.

Exactly. I do not expect them to help out Madara and Obito.

Lorde
15th February 2013, 7:20 PM
I'm pretty sure Orochimaru doesn't have any interest in the world becoming an endless Illusion where he has no control. lol So of course he'd want to let them help the alliance.

But that doesn't imply that he's good; he just doesn't want competition. It worries me that Sasuke and the others are so calm despite the fact that they're currently in an alliance with one of the most dangerous characters ever. Suigetsu seemed to be the only one who was worried about what Orochimaru might do later on, but he seems oblivious now.

HoennMaster
15th February 2013, 9:14 PM
Part of me kind of hopes Orochimaru becomes the main villain again. Obito is annoying now lol.


I thought they thought that he was still masquerading as Tobi. I don't know how they know the real one was revived, but I guess Orochimaru knows all.

I don't think any of them were even aware Obito was pretending to be Madara other than maybe Minato.

TsukiMirage
16th February 2013, 5:59 AM
They both were aware, but Sasuke learnt the truth from the Zetsu and Orochimaru knew he was a fake as Kabuto showed.

HoennMaster
16th February 2013, 6:05 AM
How would Hashirama and Tobirama know Obito was pretending to be Madara when they were just resurrected and all of the events happened after they died?

TsukiMirage
16th February 2013, 6:16 AM
Oh, I meant both Sasuke and Orochimaru.

HoennMaster
16th February 2013, 6:48 AM
Actaully...would Hiruzen know about that? I don't remember if it was ever said.

Joltik-Kid
16th February 2013, 7:10 AM
But that doesn't imply that he's good; he just doesn't want competition. It worries me that Sasuke and the others are so calm despite the fact that they're currently in an alliance with one of the most dangerous characters ever. Suigetsu seemed to be the only one who was worried about what Orochimaru might do later on, but he seems oblivious now.
Because Sasuke likely doesn't care either way... if he's in a illusion he'd be happy, if he destroy's the Leaf he'd be happy. He's just all serious about avenging the Uchiha and nothing else

TsukiMirage
16th February 2013, 7:50 PM
Actaully...would Hiruzen know about that? I don't remember if it was ever said. I don't think so, unless that was one of the things Itachi was informing them of.

Kamex
16th February 2013, 8:06 PM
I don't think so, unless that was one of the things Itachi was informing them of.
I thought Itachi didn't know either. That's why he tried to kill "Madara" (Tobi) through Sasuke's eyes.

gohan5
16th February 2013, 8:42 PM
I thought Itachi didn't know either. That's why he tried to kill "Madara" (Tobi) through Sasuke's eyes.

Good point. Makes sense though if even Minato didn't know that "Madara" was really Obito.

Lorde
16th February 2013, 9:40 PM
Because Sasuke likely doesn't care either way... if he's in a illusion he'd be happy, if he destroy's the Leaf he'd be happy. He's just all serious about avenging the Uchiha and nothing else

Then maybe Kishi should kill him off since there's really no way he can redeem a character who cares only about his own ideals. Sasuke is better off dead than alive at this point. :(

Joltik-Kid
16th February 2013, 9:54 PM
Then maybe Kishi should kill him off since there's really no way he can redeem a character who cares only about his own ideals. Sasuke is better off dead than alive at this point. :(
Quite a lot of people want that... some reason's being because he's become a pretty flat character who always gets power-ups thank's to his haxy eyes

insanejames
17th February 2013, 4:38 AM
ok this is going to be very off topic but in the war why was't Sakumo Hatake better know as Konoha's White Fang bought using Impure World Resurrection (sorry again about this being off the current discussion) but this came up in the other day with a friend i'm sure other bought back but why did he pick the once he did, a matter of resources is the best idea i have.

Lorde
17th February 2013, 5:13 AM
Quite a lot of people want that... some reason's being because he's become a pretty flat character who always gets power-ups thank's to his haxy eyes

Speaking of his eyes, I guess he can turn off his EMS? Because he had a normal Mangekyo Sharingan in this week's chapter as well as the one before that.


ok this is going to be very off topic but in the war why was't Sakumo Hatake better know as Konoha's White Fang bought using Impure World Resurrection (sorry again about this being off the current discussion) but this came up in the other day with a friend i'm sure other bought back but why did he pick the once he did, a matter of resources is the best idea i have.

I think the reason why he wasn't revived is because he got closure and moved on to the afterlife after his talk with Kakashi. If it was a matter of Kabuto not having his DNA, Kabuto probably would've said something when he was talking about how he wasn't able to get any of Jiraiya's and Shisui's DNA.

HoennMaster
17th February 2013, 8:00 AM
What makes me curious is how he got DNA for only some of the past Kages. We were missing one of the Tsuchikage, and two of the Mizukage, Raikage and Kazekage. The past Hokage were sealed at that time obviously and I'm assuming the Third Kazekage had no DNA left thanks to Sasori.

TsukiMirage
17th February 2013, 8:16 AM
I thought Itachi didn't know either. That's why he tried to kill "Madara" (Tobi) through Sasuke's eyes. Itachi was shown knowing Obito wasn't the real Madara during his flashback I believe.

deathseer
18th February 2013, 8:50 AM
Just got done listening to Weekly Manga Recap, and I can see why Chris said that the story behind the Uchiha and the Sharingan is "Series Destroying Bad"

It basically shows that they Uchiha are so emotionally unstable and maladjusted that suffering any sort of loss causes them to become lunatics with hax eyes that want to destroy the world. The rest of the ninja world has accepted what being a shinobi is and the fact that they themselves or their friends will eventually die because they are essentially mercenaries and follow those who pay them the most. They accept the consequences for living in this world and shows that there are vices involved for what they do. But the Uchiha are so far removed from that because they can't seem to let go and move on with their lives. The entire family is always motivated by stupid crap like that. Emotions that are so out of whack and so maladjusted that the slightest loss causes them to lose their minds and want to destroy the world.

Obito at first could have been considered a "What-if" to Naruto. A what would happen if Naruto didn't have the comfort of Iruka and his friends and was always wallowed in despair. But now, its more he is "The product of hereditary emotional immaturity".

It's everything that Naruto isn't. Everything that early Naruto was just destroyed because of this. Characters like Zabuza and Gaara suffered great trauma and loss, but they eventually moved on. Even after all they were put through, they still found some sort of stability.

It's like if you kicked some guys puppy and he immediately goes into Target and unloads mortars on everyone there.

insanejames
20th February 2013, 10:37 AM
well it's good we get to see how they met, Madara was jealous and bitter at that age wow that i was't expecting but hey, and the first well yea not surprised he was like that at all

but still a flashback in a flashback what is this oh what this is Naruto

JD
20th February 2013, 11:51 AM
Wow Madara was able to form a Susanoo like armor around the Kyuubi. I wonder if Sasuke will find away to do something similar to himself for his next power up.

7 tyranitars
20th February 2013, 1:23 PM
Wow Madara was able to form a Susanoo like armor around the Kyuubi. I wonder if Sasuke will find away to do something similar to himself for his next power up.

I did not expect that to be honest. Looked pretty cool.

waffle_x_v
20th February 2013, 1:46 PM
I wanna see this animated.

BJPalmer85
20th February 2013, 2:32 PM
Hashirama and Madara being friends before their epic fight...

am I the only one that isnt surprised?

B

miles0624
20th February 2013, 4:15 PM
I wanna see this animated.

I know like seriously. This is going to be awesome.

A flashback inside a flashback. What is this Inception. Next we are going to have a flashback inside a flashback inside a flashback inside a .... Really. SMH!!!

SkyDeity
20th February 2013, 5:01 PM
I know like seriously. This is going to be awesome.

A flashback inside a flashback. What is this Inception. Next we are going to have a flashback inside a flashback inside a flashback inside a .... Really. SMH!!!

We must go even deeper.

BJPalmer85
20th February 2013, 5:06 PM
We must go even deeper.

we need a like button or something similar on this forum!!

B

7 tyranitars
20th February 2013, 5:54 PM
I know like seriously. This is going to be awesome.

A flashback inside a flashback. What is this Inception. Next we are going to have a flashback inside a flashback inside a flashback inside a .... Really. SMH!!!

Watch out for Limbo :P

TsukiMirage
20th February 2013, 5:57 PM
It was fascinating to see Madara generate his Susanoo over the Kyuubi and Hashirama creating some thousand-handed sage. What was more fascinating though was Madara confirming this was not their first fight to the death. It was a nice touch to show off their final battle before going back to their beginning, then simply going straight back like I first wanted. Great chapter.

Joltik-Kid
20th February 2013, 6:07 PM
And the similarities between the First and Naruto continue... pretty much this fight might spoiler how Naruto goes about his with Sasuke

Lorde
20th February 2013, 9:44 PM
I can't believe that Madara was able to fuse his Susano'o with the Kyuubi. But I was glad that Hashirama was able to withstand everything that Madara threw at him; it was one of those battles where either person could've won. I also liked that other flashback to when Madara and Hashirama first met.

Platinum fan.
20th February 2013, 10:18 PM
Like everyone is saying it's cool that Madara formed that Susanoo armor around the Kyubi, and Hashirama's 1000 hands justus thing looked mega sick...sick as in good that is. I have to admit I kinda don't want this flashback to happen right now during the Naruto and friends fight with Madara and Tobi, but oh well, it looks like it will be interesting. The Madara and Hashirama battle looked really legendary. I hope Naruto and Sasuke can have a epic showdown like this when/if they fight again. This chapter impressed me.

Lorde
21st February 2013, 9:54 PM
I don't see Naruto vs. Sasuke topping this fight, if it ever happens at all. Naruto's techniques aren't nearly as impressive as Hashirama's, and while Sasuke has the same eyes and probably most of the same abilities as Madara had during this fight, I can't help but think that he still wouldn't live up to Madara's legacy.

Platinum fan.
21st February 2013, 10:33 PM
If Naruto vs Sasuke is indeed the final battle of the series, I could see it surpassing Madara and Hashirama depending on how Kishi writes the two of them and depending on what each learns on the road to this fight. There's to much build up for Naruto vs Sasuke to not happen, and I expect this to be the next big legendary clash in the ninja world to the point of Naruto and Sasuke getting statues of their own after they die or something.

Shneak
21st February 2013, 11:32 PM
That 1000 handed Senju is terrifying. I don't think Hashirama summoned it, so is it made of wood?

TsukiMirage
22nd February 2013, 12:36 AM
Seems like it's a combo technique of senjutsu and Mokuton, seeing how he went into Sage Mode to use it.

Jazzy-Strings
22nd February 2013, 10:14 AM
Kishimoto said that naruto and sasuke would meet during this war but the fight I'm not so sure of.

TsukiMirage
22nd February 2013, 6:21 PM
If the Hokages are really gonna assist against Madara, then Sasuke would likely go with them and thus meet up with the other two sides.

Lorde
22nd February 2013, 10:08 PM
I fully expect the Gokage (minus Tsunade) to arrive at the battlefield before Sasuke and the others. Still, I'm not sure how I feel about more dead characters fighting in a war that will determine the future of the ninja world. It seems like the current ninja need to win on their own to prove their worth.

gohan5
23rd February 2013, 1:48 AM
I fully expect the Gokage (minus Tsunade) to arrive at the battlefield before Sasuke and the others. Still, I'm not sure how I feel about more dead characters fighting in a war that will determine the future of the ninja world. It seems like the current ninja need to win on their own to prove their worth.

Agreed, it's like despite all the crazy levels of strength reached in the present, they still can't compare to the ninja of the past. The Sage of Six Paths, okay I can understand that, but there's countless others. I mean I'm all for legend, but that's just it, it's crazy seeing all of this evidence that it's not just legend. The First Hokage and Madara are stronger than any of the ninja that have come after them. But I guess it just depends on the situation. I still remember Enma saying that the Third could beat the First and Second had he been in his prime.

Kamex
23rd February 2013, 9:13 PM
Hm... I wouldn't say Hashirama and Madara's childhood meeting was a flashback within a flashback. I think it was more like a separate flashback interrupting the original flashback, but both on the same level. I believe the present-day Hashirama is still narrating and explaining both occurrences. If Hashirama of present-day's flashback-Hashirama was in turn having his own flashback (which original, present-day Hashirama would also have to mention as his old self having a flashback in the middle of the fight), then and only then would I consider it a flashback within a flashback!

Anyways, the stone-skipping activity was a nice reference to Madara's tailed beast bomb thing reaching the other side of the shore. Is this perhaps foreshadowing the fact that Hashirama was always one step ahead of Madara? Or that Hashirama taught and/or influenced Madara into becoming a better shinobi? In any case, it seems that Hashirama was a bit cocky from the beginning, and Madara was jealous and prideful from the beginning as well.

I hope we see Izuna somewhere in these flashbacks.

-Raiga-
23rd February 2013, 10:36 PM
I don't see Naruto vs. Sasuke topping this fight, if it ever happens at all. Naruto's techniques aren't nearly as impressive as Hashirama's, and while Sasuke has the same eyes and probably most of the same abilities as Madara had during this fight, I can't help but think that he still wouldn't live up to Madara's legacy.

The difference being, this fight will most likely be 2-3 chapters long. Naruto vs. Sasuke might very well be 5-10 depending on how much talking is involved between parts.

Platinum fan.
24th February 2013, 5:24 AM
Agreed, it's like despite all the crazy levels of strength reached in the present, they still can't compare to the ninja of the past. The Sage of Six Paths, okay I can understand that, but there's countless others. I mean I'm all for legend, but that's just it, it's crazy seeing all of this evidence that it's not just legend. The First Hokage and Madara are stronger than any of the ninja that have come after them. But I guess it just depends on the situation. I still remember Enma saying that the Third could beat the First and Second had he been in his prime.

It almost makes Naruto, Sasuke, and their generation look not so cheap. So many boundaries have been broken with Madara, and probably the 1st Hokage as well if he does indeed fight. Again I wonder if he can resist Edo Tensai, why didn't he do it before the first time Orochimaru summoned him? Surely he could have broken the hold before Orochimaru put the Kunai in his head, but whatever.

Lorde
24th February 2013, 6:00 AM
The difference being, this fight will most likely be 2-3 chapters long. Naruto vs. Sasuke might very well be 5-10 depending on how much talking is involved between parts.

I don't think the length of the battle will be the deciding factor though. I just don't think Naruto or Sasuke possess jutsu that are as grand as those displayed by Hashirama and Madara. I mean Sasuke could probably pull a couple of impressive jutsu since he's always been given cool abilities imo, but Naruto basically just has Rasengan variations.

gohan5
24th February 2013, 6:33 AM
It almost makes Naruto, Sasuke, and their generation look not so cheap. So many boundaries have been broken with Madara, and probably the 1st Hokage as well if he does indeed fight. Again I wonder if he can resist Edo Tensai, why didn't he do it before the first time Orochimaru summoned him? Surely he could have broken the hold before Orochimaru put the Kunai in his head, but whatever.

Yeah I know what you mean, basically what I said about depends on the situation. Back then the First wasn't known to be this insanely strong and was just the village founder, as opposed to now where he's been (or his cells anyway) a major driving factor in the war.