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SkyDeity
24th February 2013, 9:58 PM
It almost makes Naruto, Sasuke, and their generation look not so cheap. So many boundaries have been broken with Madara, and probably the 1st Hokage as well if he does indeed fight. Again I wonder if he can resist Edo Tensai, why didn't he do it before the first time Orochimaru summoned him? Surely he could have broken the hold before Orochimaru put the Kunai in his head, but whatever.

Tobirama noted that they were revived at near full power this time. That's the difference between now and then. It's crazy to think that they are still not as strong as they are supposed to be.

Endless
24th February 2013, 11:06 PM
Tobirama noted that they were revived at near full power this time. That's the difference between now and then. It's crazy to think that they are still not as strong as they are supposed to be.

It still seems as they were revived as how they were when they died. Hashirama and Tobirama might have been at their prime when they died, but Hiruzen was clearly not, and he is still revived as an old man.

I would actually really like to see him at his prime, as he was stated to be the strongest of the Hokages. But I doubt it as Hashirama seems godlike right now.

HoennMaster
25th February 2013, 9:27 AM
I think Hiruzen holding his own against two Hokages at once indicated he is still fairly strong.

Lorde
25th February 2013, 8:05 PM
I place Hiruzen in the middle in terms of power among the Hokage. I think Minato and Hashirama outrank him, or at least that's what Kishi would have us believe.

Platinum fan.
25th February 2013, 9:57 PM
I place Hiruzen in the middle in terms of power among the Hokage. I think Minato and Hashirama outrank him, or at least that's what Kishi would have us believe.

They use to hype Sarutobi up as the best Hokage, then it was Minato, and now Hashirama. It's really hard to tell. Poor 2nd Hokage was never given the strongest title :( But yeah in terms of the strongest it looks like Hashirama is the strongest. At least until Kishi wants to hype up another Hokage, which could be at anytime.

gohan5
26th February 2013, 5:38 AM
They use to hype Sarutobi up as the best Hokage, then it was Minato, and now Hashirama. It's really hard to tell. Poor 2nd Hokage was never given the strongest title :( But yeah in terms of the strongest it looks like Hashirama is the strongest. At least until Kishi wants to hype up another Hokage, which could be at anytime.

Yeah exactly, they've all, barring the second, been stated at one time or another to be the most powerful. Like I'm sure Hiruzen at his prime is much more powerful than he is now, but I still say Hashirama is the strongest. I mean he has to be, if Madara is as powerful as he is, and Hashirama beat him.

LizardonX
26th February 2013, 5:40 AM
Yeah exactly, they've all, barring the second, been stated at one time or another to be the most powerful. Like I'm sure Hiruzen at his prime is much more powerful than he is now, but I still say Hashirama is the strongest. I mean he has to be, if Madara is as powerful as he is, and Hashirama beat him.

Their rankings probably fluctuate depending on what supplements Kishi takes every day to help him gain ideas for what to write.

Lorde
27th February 2013, 6:13 AM
A pretty boring chapter this week. We didn't learn much other than Hashirama had another brother named Itama who was killed by the Uchiha clan and Madara had four other brothers. It was strange seeing Madara's personality as a child though. He was hot-headed, unlike his adult self. But Hashirama seemed the same for the most part.

HoennMaster
27th February 2013, 6:58 AM
Yeah I was hoping this chapter wasn't going to be all flashback but sadly no.

Kamex
27th February 2013, 7:24 AM
Not gonna lie... I'm interested in the "Warring States Period" of the Naruto world, and I also want to know how Hashirama, Madara, their families, their clans, Konoha, etc. all came to be as we know them. So I don't mind flashbacks.

I wonder... surely Izuna hasn't died yet at this time? I'm sure Madara hasn't unlocked a Mangekyou Sharingan yet, much less an Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, so I guess Izuna's still around. I'm surprised Kishi hasn't mentioned any sisters or girls in general though. Or maybe I shouldn't be... lol.

TsukiMirage
27th February 2013, 8:00 AM
Looks as if Madara was more peaceful then some thought. Quite impressive that Hashirama turnt out the way he did with such a father. And so many brothers for both of them. Nice chapter.

insanejames
27th February 2013, 12:13 PM
Looks as if Madara was more peaceful then some thought. Quite impressive that Hashirama turnt out the way he did with such a father. And so many brothers for both of them. Nice chapter.

that is true, i thing after a while Madara would/will gain a taste for blood, enjoy killing and when it stops he want to plunge the world in to war but his clan refuse to follow him to there deaths, thus he tryed to start one on his own and was stoped by the frist

7 tyranitars
27th February 2013, 1:16 PM
I am quite suprised about Madaras personality. I didn't see him being so peace loving..

Locormus
27th February 2013, 2:52 PM
I am quite suprised about Madaras personality. I didn't see him being so peace loving..

Well, we all start out as peaceful when we're children.. It's just that Madara grew up in the wrong time. It's the same story as Nagato I'd say..

miles0624
27th February 2013, 4:53 PM
Some people may hate this chapter, but I love seeing this stuff. Guys, guys, gess what? Shurikiens are actually dangerous again.

JD
27th February 2013, 5:11 PM
I didn't really care for this chapter too much, but I guess it is interesting learning a little bit about Hashirama's backstory I was surprised that he had another brother.

Joltik-Kid
27th February 2013, 6:15 PM
I didn't really care for this chapter too much, but I guess it is interesting learning a little bit about Hashirama's backstory I was surprised that he had another brother.
Pretty much my thoughts exactly, though I was more surprised Madara *had* 4 brothers

TsukiMirage
27th February 2013, 7:31 PM
that is true, i thing after a while Madara would/will gain a taste for blood, enjoy killing and when it stops he want to plunge the world in to war but his clan refuse to follow him to there deaths, thus he tryed to start one on his own and was stoped by the frist According to Itachi, Madara became the way he is because he believed only he was capable of protecting his comrades.

Shadow Lucario
27th February 2013, 7:39 PM
When I saw Itama I immediately thought of Zetsu. Weird huh?

7 tyranitars
27th February 2013, 7:46 PM
When I saw Itama I immediately thought of Zetsu. Weird huh?

He does look like Zetsu! I reread the chapter when you mentioned it, to see for myself, and I must say he looks like him.

Kamex
27th February 2013, 8:16 PM
Well, we all start out as peaceful when we're children.. It's just that Madara grew up in the wrong time. It's the same story as Nagato I'd say..
Yeah even in real life most people start off generally a clean slate (nature vs. nurture notwithstanding). If you were to compare the 5-year-old version of a serial killer or Hitler with the 5-year-old version of any typical, peaceful person perhaps reading the latest chapter of Naruto, they'd probably seem very similar in disposition. I think that's why it's interesting to see the life experiences of different types of characters, especially villains like Madara.

Jb
27th February 2013, 8:32 PM
Flashbacks are the last thing this series needs. I really can't stand them at this point, even if it is character development. They're simply overused at this point.

Lorde
27th February 2013, 8:48 PM
He does look like Zetsu! I reread the chapter when you mentioned it, to see for myself, and I must say he looks like him.

The only similarity between Itama and Zetsu imo is the half white/half black theme, but that's most likely a coincidence.

Anyway, I'm kind of glad that Kishi's showing us the whole children in combat thing. At least it shows how different things are in the current era. I mean some kids still participate in conflicts, but they're usually older kids. Hashirama and his brothers had it rough.

Platinum fan.
27th February 2013, 10:08 PM
This chapter was necessary but I feel it is being shown at a very bad time. I kind of want to get back to Naruto and friends vs Madara and Tobi already so forgive me if I'm a little harsh right now and say I want this flashback over and done with as soon as possible. It's sad because I feel this flashback is very important to the plot considering it's Hashirama and Madara but still...

I am surprised at Madara's personality as a kid. Did everyone in some shape or form start off with that over exaggerated face they make when they complain about something? I kinda wish Madara didn't have that kind of personality. It would have been nicer and fresher if he was one of those smart, shy, yet friendly guys instead of the generic over exaggerating facial guys. You guys might not get what I'm saying but overall young Madara is just alright. I do like Hashirama. Looks like even back then they were preaching about peace of some kind, and yet Hashirama and Madara are the shinobi of legendary status. Kinda funny if you think about it.

pwnswitchclik
27th February 2013, 10:10 PM
I sense an incoming flashback of Hashirama vs Kakuzu.

Shneak
27th February 2013, 10:35 PM
This chapter was depressing, but it was definitely significant for both Hashirama and Madara. It's interesting to learn about them when they were young and the ordeals that they had to experience. Especially Madara. I know that we got the Uchiha mentality explained, but I really want to wonder just what destroyed Madara to bring him to where he is today. I also like the differences that this chapter emphasized from the modern shinobi world. Even though we're in the War arc, everybody seems to be in danger back then.

-Raiga-
28th February 2013, 2:05 AM
Reading the first few pages of the chapter, between the art style and dialogue, it was like reading a whole different manga. The interactions between what feel like new characters, something we've hardly experienced lately given the nature of the war, was so refreshing.

iFi Salamander
28th February 2013, 8:11 PM
The only similarity between Itama and Zetsu imo is the half white/half black theme, but that's most likely a coincidence.

Anyway, I'm kind of glad that Kishi's showing us the whole children in combat thing. At least it shows how different things are in the current era. I mean some kids still participate in conflicts, but they're usually older kids. Hashirama and his brothers had it rough.

I think it is more of a paralleled symbolic than anything else. This past story showed us that Itama and Madara's unknown brothers were a central driving point for them beginning their own paths, but ended up at different conclusions. Chromatic Zetsu is made up of Hashirama's cells, and Madara's spirit. Maybe Kishimoto intentionally made Itama almost a martyr of symbolism to reflect the basis of their hearts, by showing the impact of his idea on the two. For this reason I think he is merely meant to mirror Zetsu, not actually be him.

Other odd notes, the black and white are both on the same sides.

Lorde
28th February 2013, 9:25 PM
I sense an incoming flashback of Hashirama vs Kakuzu.

I hope not since it would be kind of redundant given the way the flashback has been set up to show how Hashirama and Madara met and formed the alliance that would one day form Konoha. Unless it's revealed that Madara helped Hashirama against Kakuzu or something.

Shneak
4th March 2013, 10:06 PM
Do we know why Tobirama created the Edo Tensei jutsu? I think it would be interesting if it was influenced by his brother's death.

Platinum fan.
4th March 2013, 11:12 PM
Do we know why Tobirama created the Edo Tensei jutsu? I think it would be interesting if it was influenced by his brother's death.

I don't think we do, someone correct me if I'm wrong. But that's not a bad idea on how it would come about.

By the way, love the Tenten animation you got there. I guess the anime is the only place she can truly thrive. Poor Tenten.

Lorde
5th March 2013, 12:18 AM
I don't think Tobirama invented Edo Tensei to revive his dead brother. I mean he doesn't seem like that kind of person since he's very stoic and in control of his emotions.

Joltik-Kid
5th March 2013, 6:53 AM
I don't think we do, someone correct me if I'm wrong. But that's not a bad idea on how it would come about.
Not sure if that would be the best idea, but learning about why the jutsu was created would put my confusion to rest. The guy clearly has said twice that this was not the purpose it was unintended for.


By the way, love the Tenten animation you got there. I guess the anime is the only place she can truly thrive. Poor Tenten.
Pretty sure that's from either the current opening or ending, because from what I remember, she doesn't even thrive there either.

Locormus
5th March 2013, 2:18 PM
Pretty sure that's from either the current opening or ending, because from what I remember, she doesn't even thrive there either.

She got a pretty decent filler episode a few years back.. And a bit of spotlight at the beachfight with the fan.. xD

Shneak
5th March 2013, 9:55 PM
It's not necessary, but it would be nice to get some backstory on Edo Tensei. I don't think I (maybe we) expected it to be so pivotal in Part II.

The Tenten gif is from the recent filler arc. It's the only place where she can fight an Edo Tensei corpse on screen. :(

Lorde
6th March 2013, 8:09 AM
Hmm, pretty boring chapter this week. I mean there wasn't that much going on aside from some conversations between Hashirama and Madara. I guess it was neat to see Madara's father at the end, but that's just something that's mildly interesting in my opinion. Looks like we may get a battle next week. I hope so.

HoennMaster
6th March 2013, 9:03 AM
What is it with Kishi and boys peeing? Second time in the arc.

I realize backstory is nice and all, but IDK, I feel this is starting to drag on. Still, the fight next week looks to be interesting.

SenorLaughsaLot
6th March 2013, 9:08 AM
I want to see Tobirama and Izuna in action as young'ns. I sort of sped through the chapter, hoping the backstory would end mid-way, but I thought it was alright. The end is what had me excited, but then it says that they will be taking a break next week.

Sigh...

lolipiece
6th March 2013, 9:31 AM
This flashback is dragging on....

Platinum fan.
6th March 2013, 3:05 PM
I thought the chapter was better then last weeks but only a little. I think this story is very important but again the timing is just way off and I want to get back to Naruto and crew vs Madara and Tobi. This story didn't pick up for me until they started talking about a school for ninjas. I first thought "OMG Hogwarts for Shinobi and Ninjas" but no, we all know it was Konoha. The spying thing was interesting so now we'll see Hashirama's dad and Tobirama in action. Cool I guess? I kinda want the flashback to end so we get back to the war. The war is almost over so please lets end it, huh?

Locormus
6th March 2013, 3:15 PM
It's not necessary, but it would be nice to get some backstory on Edo Tensei. I don't think I (maybe we) expected it to be so pivotal in Part II.

The Tenten gif is from the recent filler arc. It's the only place where she can fight an Edo Tensei corpse on screen. :(

Wasn't Tenten's Kakuzu fight a bit extended in the animé? Or was that just her 'fan' addiction?


Hmm, pretty boring chapter this week. I mean there wasn't that much going on aside from some conversations between Hashirama and Madara. I guess it was neat to see Madara's father at the end, but that's just something that's mildly interesting in my opinion. Looks like we may get a battle next week. I hope so.

I agree. This was mildly interesting. When they sat on the rock, I already knew that they were going to establish Konoha on that spot, but it also had me flashback to Danzou and Hiruzen for a second. The battle will probably be a stalemate.. Whatever the outcome, I think that since Hashi's father deduced that Hashirama told Madara about the trap that Hashirama is going to be buttwhipped in the next chapter...


This flashback is dragging on....

This will probably be the last post of this page, so it will probably will not be read, but anyway.. -.-

You're right, but this is one of the last things we needed to know. There's not much backstory that Kishi can go through. Only Oro's (full) backstory is left, and we kinda have a good view on that already.. Just see it as that.. It's sensible that Kishi is doing this at his own pace.

PokeMaster366
6th March 2013, 4:31 PM
You're right, but this is one of the last things we needed to know. There's not much backstory that Kishi can go through. Only Oro's (full) backstory is left, and we kinda have a good view on that already.. Just see it as that.. It's sensible that Kishi is doing this at his own pace.

At least Naruto is being entertaining. Bleach is just being dull, predictable, and more repetitive than a broken record caught in a time loop.

BTW, we're not getting a chapter next week. Naruto's taking a small break.

Joltik-Kid
6th March 2013, 7:02 PM
This flashback is dragging on....
This one was gonna be a doozy... likely lasting till mid April, early May

TsukiMirage
6th March 2013, 8:28 PM
It was nice to see how Madara and Hashirama grew closer together, though the whole village thing seemed a little heavy-handed. Once again we see the Senju clan wasn't much better then the Uchiha clan, though I must say that Izuna and Tobirama looked awesome all decked out for battle. Nice chapter.

Phantom champion Z
6th March 2013, 9:24 PM
Idk for me personaly the flashback is really cool. We get to see a different era in the shinobi world, and we can see first hand why things played out the way they did. i always wondered why hasi and madara started the leaf if their clans were such bitter rivals. I would like to see how hashi developes his wood style and why madara became who he is.

Lorde
6th March 2013, 9:28 PM
I guess it was kind of cool to see the place that would one day become Konoha. And honestly, I thought it was clever how Hashirama and Madara warned each other while skipping rocks. I just have a feeling that Madara's father will be killed by either Tobirama or his father, and that will turn Madara against Hashirama.

Platinum fan.
6th March 2013, 9:37 PM
I guess it was kind of cool to see the place that would one day become Konoha. And honestly, I thought it was clever how Hashirama and Madara warned each other while skipping rocks. I just have a feeling that Madara's father will be killed by either Tobirama or his father, and that will turn Madara against Hashirama.

I can see something like that to. It's very interesting that all these big villains in the Naruto universe started off as not such bad guys. Madara, Tobi, Nagato, and I'm sure we'll get some stuff on Orochimaru as well...when he's about to fight or die.

Shneak
6th March 2013, 9:59 PM
- I think it's suitable that Madara's giving hairstyling advice.
- Hashirama: the Rock Lee of early Shinobi
- Kishi is self-aware.
- It is an eye pun.
- Ah, so that mountain is the Hokage Monument.
- EVERY Uchiha is a prodigy then.
- Izuna and Tobirama know each other?
- Of course there's going to be a break when the flashbacks get to a fight.

It's interesting how Kishi is trying to make Butsuma unlikable and for us to side with Madara, especially with his current situation. He must want us to have sympathy for him. I wonder if Hashirama and Madara will end up talking it out when they inevitably meet, or if they'll go against their early ideals and fight each other.

TrueSerperior
7th March 2013, 11:11 PM
I'm enjoying the flashback so far. Probably because I love most of Naruto's flashbacks. It may be out of place, but i'd rather get it over with now before the big finale of the current battle going on with the Juubi. Now that I think about it, we've been off and on from Naruto vs Tobi since like 2011 so i'm sure Kishimoto has been planning an ending for it that won't disappoint.

Lorde
7th March 2013, 11:19 PM
I can see something like that to. It's very interesting that all these big villains in the Naruto universe started off as not such bad guys. Madara, Tobi, Nagato, and I'm sure we'll get some stuff on Orochimaru as well...when he's about to fight or die.

Yeah I mean if you look at it one way, the whole shinobi system is what created a lot of the villains. Like, Madara and his brother lived in a time where even kids were soldiers and they suffered a lot, and Nagato suffered because of shinobi wars in the Land of Rain, and apparently Orochimaru's parents were killed in a war as well.

Shneak
8th March 2013, 11:47 PM
I like how Naruto has kind of focused on that since the Invasion of Pain up until the current arc. I believe it's been admitted by at least one character in the manga (not Hashirama, Madara or Obito) that the shinobi world is corrupt as hell and the Five warring Villages are only making it worse for everyone. Obito, Madara, Nagato weren't born evil. They had to corrupt themselves so that they could develop a form of peace to save the shinobi world.

Kamex
9th March 2013, 6:14 AM
I wonder what form of "peace" or other conclusion Naruto will bring about after all of this. Everything's been leading to that, which he'll probably figure out completely after defeating Sasuke. I just hope it isn't a perfect solution, because that wouldn't be realistic at all.

TsukiMirage
9th March 2013, 7:30 AM
Quite sure Naruto's solution will be ridiculous and unrealistic, given the whole faith theme going on.

Lorde
9th March 2013, 9:36 PM
I thought it was really sudden how the manga shifted from being pro-ninja to being against it. Like, the whole manga is about ninja fights and stuff, but we've learned more about the negative aspects of it in Part 2. I just don't like the inconsistency; Kishi should have talked about this stuff in Part 1 as well, but he barely touched on it.

ebilly99
10th March 2013, 1:47 AM
Quite sure Naruto's solution will be ridiculous and unrealistic, given the whole faith theme going on.

Naruto absorbs the ten tails and becomes a god, Then decides that everyone will answer to his laws and codes. At first peace is restored but soon Naruto starts to become corrupt with power. His orders are absolute and individual freedoms destroyed. Enter the next arc where a future generation try to defeat the monarch and restore free will to the world.

Ver-mont
10th March 2013, 1:57 AM
Am I the only one who's getting really tired of this same old backstory? (I didn't read the previous pages to be honest)

Kishimoto used basically the same relation for Naruto/Sasuke, Jiraiya/Orochimaru, Hiruzen/Danzo, Kakashi/Obito and now Hashirama/Madara.
(and, if we're a little more flexible, even Yahiko/Nagato)

It's like all kids in the Naruto universe are split in Naruto-type and Sasuke-type and destined to meet their counterpart.

PokeMaster366
10th March 2013, 3:55 AM
Naruto absorbs the ten tails and becomes a god, Then decides that everyone will answer to his laws and codes. At first peace is restored but soon Naruto starts to become corrupt with power. His orders are absolute and individual freedoms destroyed. Enter the next arc where a future generation try to defeat the monarch and restore free will to the world.

Or absorbs the 10-Tails and uses its power to eliminate the ninja arts entirely, right down to the Bloodline Limits and basic abilities, so that the series can finally retire.

Platinum fan.
10th March 2013, 11:24 PM
Am I the only one who's getting really tired of this same old backstory? (I didn't read the previous pages to be honest)

Kishimoto used basically the same relation for Naruto/Sasuke, Jiraiya/Orochimaru, Hiruzen/Danzo, Kakashi/Obito and now Hashirama/Madara.
(and, if we're a little more flexible, even Yahiko/Nagato)

It's like all kids in the Naruto universe are split in Naruto-type and Sasuke-type and destined to meet their counterpart.

Yahiko and Nagato barely fit the Naruto/Sasuke relationship if they even register to fit it at all. There was never any real hostility or rivalry between them and they always seem to look out for and respect each other and Nagato's dream quickly became the same as Yahiko's. The others you mentioned do have the Naruto/Sasuke relationship but Nagato and Yahiko really don't have many traits of them. It's why I like them so much.

3lmi
11th March 2013, 4:23 AM
I'm starting to like Hashirama and Madara after the last chapter. It was interesting to see how they both held their friendship more than their own family and their twisted ideas of being a shinobi.

Is there not going to be a chapter next week?

TsukiMirage
11th March 2013, 7:36 AM
Yeah, there's no chapter next week.

Locormus
11th March 2013, 5:47 PM
I thought it was really sudden how the manga shifted from being pro-ninja to being against it. Like, the whole manga is about ninja fights and stuff, but we've learned more about the negative aspects of it in Part 2. I just don't like the inconsistency; Kishi should have talked about this stuff in Part 1 as well, but he barely touched on it.

Zabuza/Haku-arc wasn't enough? I thought it pretty well established the negative aspects of shinobi as mercinaries and tools. Not to mention Gaara for the entirety of Part 1.


Yeah, there's no chapter next week.

Screw it all!! Luckily, we're getting Corocoro by that time and enough to keep ourselves entertained for a few short moments! :D

Lorde
11th March 2013, 10:36 PM
Zabuza/Haku-arc wasn't enough? I thought it pretty well established the negative aspects of shinobi as mercinaries and tools. Not to mention Gaara for the entirety of Part 1.

Yeah we got glimpses of it in the beginning of the series, then Kishi pretty much ignored that in favor of Naruto x Sasuke.

So no chapter this week? Too bad, although I guess it's good that we didn't get a huge cliffhanger this time. Like don't get me wrong, I'm interested in the coming fight, but I'm not dying to know what happened. I guess it's because this is just another flashback.

Shneak
12th March 2013, 4:52 AM
I wonder what the fight will do to Hashirama and Madara. We know Tobirama and Izuna don't die, but we don't know about the fathers. The fight is being shown in a select flashback series, so it's obviously pivotal towards the former two.

Platinum fan.
12th March 2013, 4:56 AM
I actually don't mind no new chapter. I'm not exactly jumping to get back to the flashback. I'm ready to see the remaining battle of the alliance vs Obito and Madara. And when the flashback ends we'll have to deal with more Sasuke and Orochimaru talking to the dead kages and the possibilities of them joining the battle. Ugh, just bring me back to Madara and Obito already. No offense to the flashback.

TsukiMirage
12th March 2013, 6:16 AM
You actually want to go back to Naruto vs Obito? I'm glad we turnt away from that fight. It had been dragging on for nearly a year and a half.

Platinum fan.
12th March 2013, 3:44 PM
You actually want to go back to Naruto vs Obito? I'm glad we turnt away from that fight. It had been dragging on for nearly a year and a half.

Um, yeah? So we can finish it. This is probably then end of Obito or both him and Madara since I don't see them lasting beyond this final battle with the alliance, well maybe Madara. Finish what you start. This flashbacks timing is IMO very poor, right in the middle of a fight, just like this entire war arc has been poor. I want to finish up with Obito and Madara before moving on to flashbacks and then we have to deal with more Sasuke, Orochimaru and dead kages talking. It's all over the place. So yes I do want to get back to Naruto vs Obito. If you're tired of it then how will you handle Naruto vs Sasuke? That's sure to drag on as well.

TsukiMirage
12th March 2013, 5:26 PM
This is hardly the first time we've moved away from that fight, and as mentioned, it's literally been stuck at the same point for a year. I'd much rather have some character development and history then the same old, same old from Naruto and Obito. And really, at this point I'm doubting there will be a Naruto vs Sasuke, and if there is, it sure isn't gonna be long. The only thing that would make it long would be Naruto's attempt to change Sasuke's heart, which is moot at this point given that Sasuke is already beginning to change.

Platinum fan.
12th March 2013, 5:47 PM
Well that's true about Sasuke, I still want to get back to the main fight. The Flashback is important, but I still find the timing off. The flashback itself has moments but compared to what is currently going on with the Obito/Madara fight, it's boring to a degree. A main character just died (Neji) and everyone just got a cheap upgrade thanks to Kyuubi to fight Madara. I would like to see this fight continue as it was starting to pick and most of all when Obito and Madara go down, the war arc can finally end. I don't think they are going down soon but I personally would like to get back to the action. When they are down, then we can get loads of flashbacks.

Locormus
12th March 2013, 5:50 PM
Yeah we got glimpses of it in the beginning of the series, then Kishi pretty much ignored that in favor of Naruto x Sasuke.

So no chapter this week? Too bad, although I guess it's good that we didn't get a huge cliffhanger this time. Like don't get me wrong, I'm interested in the coming fight, but I'm not dying to know what happened. I guess it's because this is just another flashback.

You're saying it as if Naruto/Sasuke isn't the central thing this story is actually about.. :P

And it's not 'just another flashback'. Considering what we know, this may very well be the final flashback. What else is left in the backstory to be told? We've got that little Kakashi/Rin bit that may have a minor flashback when Obito is going to bite the dust, but this is the last of the puzzle for the bigger picture. Oh, and Orochimaru may give us a flashback as well, but I don't know, they don't seem as critical for the understanding of the basis of the arc then this one.


This is hardly the first time we've moved away from that fight, and as mentioned, it's literally been stuck at the same point for a year. I'd much rather have some character development and history then the same old, same old from Naruto and Obito. And really, at this point I'm doubting there will be a Naruto vs Sasuke, and if there is, it sure isn't gonna be long. The only thing that would make it long would be Naruto's attempt to change Sasuke's heart, which is moot at this point given that Sasuke is already beginning to change.

Sasuke is beginning to change, but we don't know into what.. Kishi has thrown curveballs at us before.. Who knows, maybe Sasuke will turn into this: "well, villages are crap as well, I'll show you my solution!"-mofo.. And his and Naruto's truths and ideals will clash, and this big dragon will split in two, and.. wait.. :O

Platinum fan.
12th March 2013, 5:58 PM
You're saying it as if Naruto/Sasuke isn't the central thing this story is actually about.. :P

And it's not 'just another flashback'. Considering what we know, this may very well be the final flashback. What else is left in the backstory to be told? We've got that little Kakashi/Rin bit that may have a minor flashback when Obito is going to bite the dust, but this is the last of the puzzle for the bigger picture. Oh, and Orochimaru may give us a flashback as well, but I don't know, they don't seem as critical for the understanding of the basis of the arc then this one.



Sasuke is beginning to change, but we don't know into what.. Kishi has thrown curveballs at us before.. Who knows, maybe Sasuke will turn into this: "well, villages are crap as well, I'll show you my solution!"-mofo.. And his and Naruto's truths and ideals will clash, and this big dragon will split in two, and.. wait.. :O

A Kakashi/Rin flashback on why he killed her is sure to happen. Probably as Obito falls. Orochimaru will probably have something as well.

Lorde
12th March 2013, 9:20 PM
I'm waiting for the "Obito controlling the Mizukage" explanation flashback as it's really the last part of his past that I'm interested about. Like, why did he decide to do it? And was he the one who killed Yagura and freed the Sanbi?

ryodragonite
12th March 2013, 10:54 PM
I read the chapter from a week ago (I know Im late) and that thing with the hands was..yeah. Didnt expect that. It was pretty cool for the First Hokage.

-Sigh- Obito is getting on my nerves.

Shneak
13th March 2013, 5:26 AM
I'm waiting for the "Obito controlling the Mizukage" explanation flashback as it's really the last part of his past that I'm interested about. Like, why did he decide to do it? And was he the one who killed Yagura and freed the Sanbi?

Wasn't Madara's silhouette present in a flashback regarding this too? I'm pretty sure Obito hasn't gone far enough to actually appear as Madara.

-Raiga-
13th March 2013, 6:05 AM
I'm pretty sure Obito hasn't gone far enough to actually appear as Madara.

Why not? After all, he pretended to be an interesting and dynamic villain for a hundred chapters, just to be revealed as obito haha

Kamex
13th March 2013, 6:47 AM
And really, at this point I'm doubting there will be a Naruto vs Sasuke, and if there is, it sure isn't gonna be long.
Really? Their rematch has been hinted at by every part of the story since the end of Part I (everything from the Senju vs Uchiha rivalry to Naruto's obsession with finding him even though he's now a worldwide-wanted criminal). I suppose Sasuke could end up using his EMS to help end the war, but I still think it's way more likely the story will end with their battle.


The only thing that would make it long would be Naruto's attempt to change Sasuke's heart, which is moot at this point given that Sasuke is already beginning to change.
If anything that's simply the seed of change being planted... I don't think Sasuke will just drop everything he's been planning after these flashbacks like nothing happened. But who knows I guess.


Wasn't Madara's silhouette present in a flashback regarding this too? I'm pretty sure Obito hasn't gone far enough to actually appear as Madara.
Well he did look somewhat similar with his hair during his recuperation under Madara, assuming you're talking about when he had his first mask with the long hair. I'm pretty sure Obito, not Madara, is the only one with a penchant for wearing masks, ever since he decided to forgo his previous identity and become "Tobi" or "Madara" or whoever else necessary.

BJPalmer85
13th March 2013, 2:06 PM
Is it on a break this week?

B

7 tyranitars
13th March 2013, 2:17 PM
Is it on a break this week?

B

Yes, Naruto is on a break.

BJPalmer85
13th March 2013, 2:29 PM
That is what I figured, but for some reason I could not find out for certain using Google

B

Lorde
13th March 2013, 6:24 PM
Wasn't Madara's silhouette present in a flashback regarding this too? I'm pretty sure Obito hasn't gone far enough to actually appear as Madara.

I'm pretty sure it was Obito who was controlling the Mizukage, as Madara couldn't even leave his little hideout much less appear in Kirigakure. I just wanted to hear Obito's explanation for going there and controlling the Mizukage, although I suppose we can assume that he did so out of vengeance for how their ninja pursued Rin.

Kamex
13th March 2013, 6:43 PM
There has to be more to the controlling Mizukage thing. I'm sure it will be explained as it is related to Kakashi "letting Rin die."

TsukiMirage
13th March 2013, 9:29 PM
Well that's true about Sasuke, I still want to get back to the main fight. The Flashback is important, but I still find the timing off. The flashback itself has moments but compared to what is currently going on with the Obito/Madara fight, it's boring to a degree. A main character just died (Neji) and everyone just got a cheap upgrade thanks to Kyuubi to fight Madara. I would like to see this fight continue as it was starting to pick and most of all when Obito and Madara go down, the war arc can finally end. I don't think they are going down soon but I personally would like to get back to the action. When they are down, then we can get loads of flashbacks. I can see why some people would consider the flashbacks boring and a waste of time, but having flashbacks afterward seems like it would be an even bigger waste of time, needlessly extending the finish. Besides, with the implication that the Edo Hokages would be allowed to go to the war after answering Sasuke's questions, it makes sense that it's all happening now, so that they can then go off and lend a hand, finally allowing Madara and Obito to be defeated.


Sasuke is beginning to change, but we don't know into what.. Kishi has thrown curveballs at us before.. Who knows, maybe Sasuke will turn into this: "well, villages are crap as well, I'll show you my solution!"-mofo.. And his and Naruto's truths and ideals will clash, and this big dragon will split in two, and.. wait.. :O A curveball is always possible, but I just can't see it happening, not this late in the game. I especially can't see Kishi have Itachi and the Hokages fail.


Wasn't Madara's silhouette present in a flashback regarding this too? I'm pretty sure Obito hasn't gone far enough to actually appear as Madara. Kisame's reaction to Obito revealing his face implies that it had been Obito, along with the fact that Madara was stuck underground.


Really? Their rematch has been hinted at by every part of the story since the end of Part I (everything from the Senju vs Uchiha rivalry to Naruto's obsession with finding him even though he's now a worldwide-wanted criminal). I suppose Sasuke could end up using his EMS to help end the war, but I still think it's way more likely the story will end with their battle. If there is a battle, I can't see it being that massive. The only reason Sasuke was gonna fight Naruto at all was because he was gonna destroy Konoha, but now it appears as if he has put that aside.


If anything that's simply the seed of change being planted... I don't think Sasuke will just drop everything he's been planning after these flashbacks like nothing happened. But who knows I guess. But the seeds already got planted, by Itachi, which is the whole reason Sasuke is having second thoughts and is looking for answers. He pretty much has dropped what he had originally planned, the destruction of Konoha, to assist Orochimaru in reviving the Edo Hokages.

Icarus©
13th March 2013, 11:47 PM
The flashbacks are sooo *hyperventilates* awesome
It's really interesting to see madara n'first hokage's past!
Though its kinda weird seeing madara being like naruto (he can't pee while people are looking at him... >.>)

Platinum fan.
14th March 2013, 12:14 AM
I can see why some people would consider the flashbacks boring and a waste of time, but having flashbacks afterward seems like it would be an even bigger waste of time, needlessly extending the finish. Besides, with the implication that the Edo Hokages would be allowed to go to the war after answering Sasuke's questions, it makes sense that it's all happening now, so that they can then go off and lend a hand, finally allowing Madara and Obito to be defeated.

A curveball is always possible, but I just can't see it happening, not this late in the game. I especially can't see Kishi have Itachi and the Hokages fail.

Kisame's reaction to Obito revealing his face implies that it had been Obito, along with the fact that Madara was stuck underground.

If there is a battle, I can't see it being that massive. The only reason Sasuke was gonna fight Naruto at all was because he was gonna destroy Konoha, but now it appears as if he has put that aside.

But the seeds already got planted, by Itachi, which is the whole reason Sasuke is having second thoughts and is looking for answers. He pretty much has dropped what he had originally planned, the destruction of Konoha, to assist Orochimaru in reviving the Edo Hokages.

I'll be honest, and this is just my opinion, but I would hate to see the dead Hokages get involved with defeating Madara and Obito. I kinda think they will be involved with defeating Madara, but hopefully Naruto can beat Obito and Ten-Tails. It just makes the young generation look weak if they need the dead Hokage zombies to save them when they are suppose to be surpassing the old dogs. It would feel like to much of a plot device. That's just me though.

mtqc
14th March 2013, 2:24 AM
I think I'm hoping in vain when I wish that the 'kages can help change Sasuke's mind... OTL but oh, do I wish.

Either way though, definitely still wanna see Naruto fight Obito on his own >:I

Kamex
14th March 2013, 5:49 AM
If there is a battle, I can't see it being that massive. The only reason Sasuke was gonna fight Naruto at all was because he was gonna destroy Konoha, but now it appears as if he has put that aside.

But the seeds already got planted, by Itachi, which is the whole reason Sasuke is having second thoughts and is looking for answers. He pretty much has dropped what he had originally planned, the destruction of Konoha, to assist Orochimaru in reviving the Edo Hokages.
Naruto has been influencing changes of heart all over the story ever since the Land of Waves arc, Gaara being the prime example in my mind. His idealism vs. Sasuke's cynicism is one of the main themes. It would be rather anticlimactic and surprising (in my opinion) if Sasuke were to mellow out completely before Naruto even gets a chance to say a word to him. But maybe that's just me.

Shadow Lucario
14th March 2013, 10:53 AM
Am I the only one still wondering what's up with Sasuke's Mangekyou Sharingan? Can he just go back to his original one? If so, then why? I'm just going to take this as a small, overlooked mistake like some of the Leaf's headbands in the past.

Chingchar
14th March 2013, 11:42 AM
Am I the only one still wondering what's up with Sasuke's Mangekyou Sharingan? Can he just go back to his original one? If so, then why? I'm just going to take this as a small, overlooked mistake like some of the Leaf's headbands in the past.

Yeah like when Orochimaru was wearing a leaf headband when he was meant to be wearing a sound one XD
I think the flashbacks are pretty good as it could lead to how Madara became like this and we may see sasuke turning good after hearing what the Kages have to say.... But then again maybe sasuke's hate is just too much and he may have to be killed we'll see!

Locormus
14th March 2013, 6:38 PM
There has to be more to the controlling Mizukage thing. I'm sure it will be explained as it is related to Kakashi "letting Rin die."

Which will be answered in the flashback, just before Obito dies.. :P

Concerning the current flashback. What if Hashirama returns to Butsuma and Tobirama's side? And the three of them kill Madara's father?

That will surely set off their antagonism towards each other.. At least Madara's towards Hashirama. Hashirama could go back under the premise that he wanted to stop both sides, but the only result was that Madara's dad died.

Lorde
14th March 2013, 8:34 PM
Am I the only one still wondering what's up with Sasuke's Mangekyou Sharingan? Can he just go back to his original one? If so, then why? I'm just going to take this as a small, overlooked mistake like some of the Leaf's headbands in the past.

Well we've seen Sasuke with his normal Mangekyo Sharingan twice recently, so I'm starting to think that it's not an error but that Sasuke has the ability to turn the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan off like a normal Sharingan.

TsukiMirage
15th March 2013, 7:33 AM
I'll be honest, and this is just my opinion, but I would hate to see the dead Hokages get involved with defeating Madara and Obito. I kinda think they will be involved with defeating Madara, but hopefully Naruto can beat Obito and Ten-Tails. It just makes the young generation look weak if they need the dead Hokage zombies to save them when they are suppose to be surpassing the old dogs. It would feel like to much of a plot device. That's just me though. The whole younger generation surpassing the old has already been screwed over via the sheer strength of Madara and Hashirama. Anyway, I can't at all see Naruto defeating the Juubi along, and it seems more likely that Obito will be dealt with by Kakashi to give that whole thing closure. I suppose I lack any hope in Naruto actually succeeding due to his previous lackluster attempts against them. That could very well change, though normally it would only happen with a new powerup and Naruto seems to have reached his final one.


Naruto has been influencing changes of heart all over the story ever since the Land of Waves arc, Gaara being the prime example in my mind. His idealism vs. Sasuke's cynicism is one of the main themes. It would be rather anticlimactic and surprising (in my opinion) if Sasuke were to mellow out completely before Naruto even gets a chance to say a word to him. But maybe that's just me. But that's the thing though. Despite Naruto's ability, Sasuke has been the one person not affected by it. Naruto has tried numerous times without much effect, while Itachi pretty much succeed after telling Sasuke the truth. And we already saw with Gaara that Naruto isn't necessarily needed to help people change, as Gaara changed the entire Allied Army himself. If Naruto is to succeed against Sasuke, I can't see it being more then the last tiny push, because Kishi treats the Hokages and Itachi far to sacred to allow them to not help.

Kamex
15th March 2013, 9:55 AM
Well we've seen Sasuke with his normal Mangekyo Sharingan twice recently, so I'm starting to think that it's not an error but that Sasuke has the ability to turn the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan off like a normal Sharingan.
That would be weird though since the EMS is supposedly the exact same thing, except "eternal". Maybe it takes more energy to maintain, or maybe Sasuke just wants to hide the fact that he has an EMS until the right time for that wow-factor... but other than that I don't really see why he'd still be able to pull out the regular Mangekyou Sharingan. Maybe Kishi and his editor simply haven't caught on to the mistake yet.


That could very well change, though normally it would only happen with a new powerup and Naruto seems to have reached his final one.
I can see Naruto getting another power up in the last volumes of the story, like an "ultimate" new power that we didn't see coming at all. It's happened in other stories before...


But that's the thing though. Despite Naruto's ability, Sasuke has been the one person not affected by it. Naruto has tried numerous times without much effect, while Itachi pretty much succeed after telling Sasuke the truth. And we already saw with Gaara that Naruto isn't necessarily needed to help people change, as Gaara changed the entire Allied Army himself. If Naruto is to succeed against Sasuke, I can't see it being more then the last tiny push, because Kishi treats the Hokages and Itachi far to sacred to allow them to not help.
Well actually, the fact that Naruto hasn't been able to reach Sasuke all this time is part of the reason I think Naruto will be the one to get Sasuke back. It's like we've been waiting to see how Naruto can get him back to the light, and the story as a whole is too idealistic for Naruto to lose at this (at least completely). That being said, I agree that Itachi and all the Hokage have had an effect on Sasuke and Naruto definitely couldn't do it alone. I could be wrong, but I just think it's likely that Naruto will finish the job... unless Kishi throws out a random plot twist towards the end (which could be pleasantly surprising, depending on what it is).

EDIT: Just to clarify, even though Itachi and the Hokage are having an effect, I don't think that means it's too late for Sasuke to go medieval on the rest of the world. He can have a lot of stuff going on his head that doesn't really get to him until after fighting Naruto, at which point Naruto's words will be more effective and poignant due to the memories/flashbacks of Itachi and the Hokage's words. Or maybe he'll twist what the Hokage say about the Uchiha into something perverted and antagonistic, but he'll realize "the meaning of it all" later. But I guess there are a million ways it can all go down.

TsukiMirage
17th March 2013, 9:26 AM
I can see Naruto getting another power up in the last volumes of the story, like an "ultimate" new power that we didn't see coming at all. It's happened in other stories before... Naruto don't have any other place to gain another power-up from, not to mention all the hoopla over his mastery of the Kyuubi.


Well actually, the fact that Naruto hasn't been able to reach Sasuke all this time is part of the reason I think Naruto will be the one to get Sasuke back. It's like we've been waiting to see how Naruto can get him back to the light, and the story as a whole is too idealistic for Naruto to lose at this (at least completely). That being said, I agree that Itachi and all the Hokage have had an effect on Sasuke and Naruto definitely couldn't do it alone. I could be wrong, but I just think it's likely that Naruto will finish the job... unless Kishi throws out a random plot twist towards the end (which could be pleasantly surprising, depending on what it is). Naruto tried the buddy thing, he tried the truth, he tried the "knowing the same pain" thing, and still had less of an effect then Itachi did after a single conversation. What can Naruto possibly say at this point that would be any different from his previous efforts? The idealism of the story would still work without Naruto doing anything, as long as Sasuke became good again. We already had Gaara take over the role of converting people in place of Naruto several times during the current arc.


EDIT: Just to clarify, even though Itachi and the Hokage are having an effect, I don't think that means it's too late for Sasuke to go medieval on the rest of the world. He can have a lot of stuff going on his head that doesn't really get to him until after fighting Naruto, at which point Naruto's words will be more effective and poignant due to the memories/flashbacks of Itachi and the Hokage's words. Or maybe he'll twist what the Hokage say about the Uchiha into something perverted and antagonistic, but he'll realize "the meaning of it all" later. But I guess there are a million ways it can all go down. Well I personally can't see it going that way. Their words appear to already be having an effect, as we could see with his reaction to Tobirama, where instead of his normal overreaction and raging, Sasuke listen to him relatively calmly. Previous Sasuke definitely wouldn't have done that. Can't see the character development having him regress after progressing so much, only to set it up so he could gain the exact same progress again.

Kamex
17th March 2013, 10:42 PM
Naruto don't have any other place to gain another power-up from, not to mention all the hoopla over his mastery of the Kyuubi.
Just off the top of my head: a special new Senju technique or power-up, the Rinnegan or alternate form of one, a combination of Sage Mode and the Kyuubi's power, some new Rasengan variation he comes up with on the spot, an ultimate jutsu that takes everyone's chakra (Spirit Bomb-esque), or something from left-field that Kishi's been saving for the climax of the story. Not saying that any of this will happen, but just want to make the point that there are possibilities. No one thought of combining the Six Paths of Pain with Jinchuuriki until it happened, or using Edo Tensei to aid in a war, or Orochimaru's White Snake form, etc.


Naruto tried the buddy thing, he tried the truth, he tried the "knowing the same pain" thing, and still had less of an effect then Itachi did after a single conversation. What can Naruto possibly say at this point that would be any different from his previous efforts? The idealism of the story would still work without Naruto doing anything, as long as Sasuke became good again. We already had Gaara take over the role of converting people in place of Naruto several times during the current arc.
I can see Gaara helping with others, but I don't see anyone taking Naruto's "main project" if you will. But again, I could be wrong.


Well I personally can't see it going that way. Their words appear to already be having an effect, as we could see with his reaction to Tobirama, where instead of his normal overreaction and raging, Sasuke listen to him relatively calmly. Previous Sasuke definitely wouldn't have done that. Can't see the character development having him regress after progressing so much, only to set it up so he could gain the exact same progress again.
I guess that's a good point, although Sasuke has made very strange decisions in the past! And this doesn't explain why Sasuke would suddenly go against the fated rivalry of the Senju and Uchiha. That is, unless Sasuke's doing so is supposed to prove that it doesn't have to be that way. Well, we'll see soon if he decides to be a hero again.

By the way, did anyone notice that Mabui (Raikage's assistant lady) and Ao died? Especially Mabui? I don't think I did until I was reading her profile recently... I wonder if anyone else quietly disappeared during this war.

Shadow Lucario
18th March 2013, 10:11 AM
Naruto still has that Jutsu. We still have no idea what it does or even if it's a normal Jutsu.

Shneak
18th March 2013, 10:32 PM
Wasn't that just the Nine Tails cloak, if I'm remembering the PTS reference right?

Lorde
18th March 2013, 11:46 PM
Wasn't that just the Nine Tails cloak, if I'm remembering the PTS reference right?

I don't think we have confirmation on what "that jutsu" was supposed to be, but many people think it's the Bijuu Ball thing.

gohan5
19th March 2013, 12:40 AM
I don't think we have confirmation on what "that jutsu" was supposed to be, but many people think it's the Bijuu Ball thing.

That's something that's bugged me for a while. What is "that jutsu" that Jiraiya and Minato believed that only Naruto could do? First, it was implied to be the Nature element Rasengan, then the RasenShuriken, and now the Bijuu Ball. What the hell is it? IIRC they made it seem like it was something Jiraiya and Minato had tried, but couldn't accomplish, which would rule out the Bijuu Ball since that's a Jinchuuriki move. Who knows? I don't even think Kishi knows, or he just forgot.

Kamex
19th March 2013, 11:01 AM
Hm, I really liked this last chapter. Things got moving pretty fast and yet it's pretty easy to see how the two clans, Izuna, Tobirama, Hashirama, and especially Madara started to become the way they became known to be in the present time. And after all these flashbacks, Madara has gone through a lot of character development. Always interesting to see how "villains" become who they are.

Hashirama is the main reason the shinobi world is the way it is now. If Tobirama (and presumably the rest of the Senju) had his way and got rid of Madara (as all the Uchiha probably expected), I wonder what kind of future would have come about...

lolipiece
19th March 2013, 11:36 AM
It's kind of pointless to have these cliffhangers when we already know the result.

Locormus
19th March 2013, 4:12 PM
It's kind of pointless to have these cliffhangers when we already know the result.

He kills none, so what DOES he do?

I expect the exact solution within 3 hours.

TsukiMirage
19th March 2013, 8:27 PM
Just off the top of my head: a special new Senju technique or power-up, the Rinnegan or alternate form of one, a combination of Sage Mode and the Kyuubi's power, some new Rasengan variation he comes up with on the spot, an ultimate jutsu that takes everyone's chakra (Spirit Bomb-esque), or something from left-field that Kishi's been saving for the climax of the story. Not saying that any of this will happen, but just want to make the point that there are possibilities. No one thought of combining the Six Paths of Pain with Jinchuuriki until it happened, or using Edo Tensei to aid in a war, or Orochimaru's White Snake form, etc. A Senju power-up would be strange given he's not a Senju, so would suddenly learning a specific technique without any foreshadowing, the rules for gaining the Rinnegan have been made clear and Naruto doesn't have either of the components, he pretty much reached the zenith of the Rasengan with the FRS and Bijuu Blast, a combination of Sage Mode and cloak mode seems moot since Naruto can already basically use both at the same time, and would think at this point the Kyuubi's chakra > then everyone else's combined. Now I'm not gonna declare that nothing could possibly happen, but given the way things have been handled, it would be questionable this late in the game. Don't really know about comparing them, since events like the Edo Paths and the White Snake power were introduced early on when they were needed, whereas Naruto has already spent quite some time fighting the final opponents without one (unless sharing the Kyuubi would count as one). With the hint of the Hokages coming to help, not much point in him getting even stronger now.


I can see Gaara helping with others, but I don't see anyone taking Naruto's "main project" if you will. But again, I could be wrong. Not saying that Gaara will take Sasuke, simply that we've already had another take over the whole changing heart role.


I guess that's a good point, although Sasuke has made very strange decisions in the past! And this doesn't explain why Sasuke would suddenly go against the fated rivalry of the Senju and Uchiha. That is, unless Sasuke's doing so is supposed to prove that it doesn't have to be that way. Well, we'll see soon if he decides to be a hero again. The fated rivalry though, seems more as an excuse then an actual thing, just like the whole Uchiha clan = hatred thing. Perhaps not a hero, but likely an antihero again.


By the way, did anyone notice that Mabui (Raikage's assistant lady) and Ao died? Especially Mabui? I don't think I did until I was reading her profile recently... I wonder if anyone else quietly disappeared during this war. Them and Shikaku are the only named characters to be killed so far, along with Neji of course.

Little disappointed that the whole Madara/Izuna situation was skipped, but it was interesting to see that Tobirama was the one who killed Izuna. Surprising, since we were previously told that Izuna hadn't been killed til after Madara had taken his eyes. Anyway, gonna be neat to see how exactly Hashirama gets around Madara's choices. Nice chapter.

Lorde
19th March 2013, 9:11 PM
So I guess there's another plot hole given that Kishi once said Izuna died in battle after he transferred his eyes to his brother? Although I suppose he could have died before Madara went to fight Hashirama. Still, Madara wouldn't be able to completely blame the Senju for that. Anyway, it wasn't a great chapter, just sort of slow and average.

Shneak
19th March 2013, 10:42 PM
This chapter seemed a bit plodding, but I'm interested to see how Hashirama bypasses Madara's so-called wishes.

HoennMaster
20th March 2013, 6:18 AM
Anyway, it wasn't a great chapter, just sort of slow and average.

It was far faster then past chapters. We went from their childhood to the just before the alliance in their adulthood in just 20 pages.

I'm happy we are finally moving faster. I really want to get back to the present already.

Kamex
20th March 2013, 6:23 AM
Surprised so many of you thought the chapter was lackluster. The first half was a bit slow, but the second half was pretty full of plot if you ask me.


A Senju power-up would be strange given he's not a Senju, so would suddenly learning a specific technique without any foreshadowing, the rules for gaining the Rinnegan have been made clear and Naruto doesn't have either of the components, he pretty much reached the zenith of the Rasengan with the FRS and Bijuu Blast, a combination of Sage Mode and cloak mode seems moot since Naruto can already basically use both at the same time, and would think at this point the Kyuubi's chakra > then everyone else's combined. Now I'm not gonna declare that nothing could possibly happen, but given the way things have been handled, it would be questionable this late in the game. Don't really know about comparing them, since events like the Edo Paths and the White Snake power were introduced early on when they were needed, whereas Naruto has already spent quite some time fighting the final opponents without one (unless sharing the Kyuubi would count as one). With the hint of the Hokages coming to help, not much point in him getting even stronger now.
Well, not to over-stress my point, but just to amuse myself my answers would be: You're right about the Senju, but since the Uzumaki clan came from the same guy, there can be a technique that parallels the Rinnegan that is available to Naruto. Foreshadowing could have happened, if Kishi was subtle enough about it then neither of us are even considering it right now. Naruto could somehow gain Uchiha blood/cells (even if it sounds unlikely), and the other requirement isn't fully understood yet (if you're talking about the living-a-long-time thing). Whether Naruto has reached the zenith of the Rasengan is arguable. A more thorough Sage Mode/Cloak combo could still be made if Kishi's feeling creative enough. And I still think the Chakra Bomb is possible, albeit kind of lame and obviously unoriginal.

But really though, the main thing that makes me think Naruto could still have another ability waiting for him, is that the war hasn't been won, and he needs a new trick to defeat Obito or Madara or Sasuke. If we really have gotten to the point of others coming to help "save the day" (perhaps including Sasuke), then I guess you're right, Naruto's pretty much done.


The fated rivalry though, seems more as an excuse then an actual thing, just like the whole Uchiha clan = hatred thing.
Not sure what you're getting at... they may be "excuses" for bad writing (I don't necessarily think so), but that doesn't mean those things won't be influential to the plot.


Them and Shikaku are the only named characters to be killed so far, along with Neji of course.
And Inoichi as well.


Little disappointed that the whole Madara/Izuna situation was skipped
I assume that's only due to Hashirama's lack of knowledge on the situation, perhaps Madara will explain it later.

TsukiMirage
20th March 2013, 7:35 AM
Surprised so many of you thought the chapter was lackluster. The first half was a bit slow, but the second half was pretty full of plot if you ask me. I think the problem was not only did this chapter seem rushed, compared to how we got three slow but nice chapters of Madara and Hashiram growing together, but several things contradicts previous information. Plus, Izuna got completely shafted. We didn't get to see him use his Sharingan, much less MS, and he died without showing anything. This was likely the last time we would have the possibility of seeing anything about him,


Well, not to over-stress my point, but just to amuse myself my answers would be: You're right about the Senju, but since the Uzumaki clan came from the same guy, there can be a technique that parallels the Rinnegan that is available to Naruto. Foreshadowing could have happened, if Kishi was subtle enough about it then neither of us are even considering it right now. Naruto could somehow gain Uchiha blood/cells (even if it sounds unlikely), and the other requirement isn't fully understood yet (if you're talking about the living-a-long-time thing). Whether Naruto has reached the zenith of the Rasengan is arguable. A more thorough Sage Mode/Cloak combo could still be made if Kishi's feeling creative enough. And I still think the Chakra Bomb is possible, albeit kind of lame and obviously unoriginal.

But really though, the main thing that makes me think Naruto could still have another ability waiting for him, is that the war hasn't been won, and he needs a new trick to defeat Obito or Madara or Sasuke. If we really have gotten to the point of others coming to help "save the day" (perhaps including Sasuke), then I guess you're right, Naruto's pretty much done. Don't think a new doujutsu would be create just for Naruto, especially since his side is all about the body. Yeah, I won't deny subtle foreshadowing could have happen, but Kishi is rarely subtle. Then again, it's not as if he hasn't shown numerous times to be willing to retcon his own writing. I don't think it's all that arguable. The Rasengan was already at it's zenith shape-wise, and making it into the FRS was suppose to be ultra-special. Then we got the whole thing about the Bijuu Rasengan being what it was suppose to be. I suppose another combination with Sage Mode could happen, what with the whole Juubi using natural energy situation going on.

Madara would really be the only one requiring something special to beat. We know how Obito could be beaten, speed and Kakashi, and Sasuke really hasn't gained anything that would make him a greater challenge then Madara.


Not sure what you're getting at... they may be "excuses" for bad writing (I don't necessarily think so), but that doesn't mean those things won't be influential to the plot. Simply that the more we dive into the past, the more we see that the conflict between the two were so clear-cut. Without someone antagonizing them into it, like Madara or Danzo, the two clans can live in peace. Sasuke's revenge really has nothing to do with acting against the Senju.


I assume that's only due to Hashirama's lack of knowledge on the situation, perhaps Madara will explain it later. I guess, though we had flashbacks in the past that showed us things the teller couldn't possibility have known, like Kushina's flashback of the Kyuubi attack.

Kamex
20th March 2013, 10:04 AM
I think the problem was not only did this chapter seem rushed, compared to how we got three slow but nice chapters of Madara and Hashiram growing together, but several things contradicts previous information. Plus, Izuna got completely shafted. We didn't get to see him use his Sharingan, much less MS, and he died without showing anything. This was likely the last time we would have the possibility of seeing anything about him,
What contradicted previous information? Not that I don't believe you, just curious what you're referring to. I think there's still a chance that Madara will have his own set of flashbacks with Izuna, it didn't seem like Hashirama was too concerned about him as he was of Madara and the big picture. But Izuna's death added another chip to Madara's shoulder, so he might get more in depth with him later on. I feel like Kishi's been leaving too many holes in our understanding of everyone's history, so hopefully he's not nearly done with that.


Don't think a new doujutsu would be create just for Naruto, especially since his side is all about the body.
I wasn't trying to imply it would be a doujutsu, just a new technique in general... could be anything really. And although it's possible Kishi might retcon to do this, if I remember correctly he once said that he planned out an ending... so maybe he actually knows what he's doing? I dunno lol.


Madara would really be the only one requiring something special to beat. We know how Obito could be beaten, speed and Kakashi, and Sasuke really hasn't gained anything that would make him a greater challenge then Madara.
Kind of the same deal with Naruto: if Kishi wants to, he can give Sasuke a new technique, the Rinnegan, a unique power for his Mangekyou Sharingan, some random Deus ex Machina, etc., depending on how powerful he wants him to be. Especially if he wants to make the youngsters finally overtake the legends (whether that's possible is arguable, I know, but the writer has the final say).


Simply that the more we dive into the past, the more we see that the conflict between the two were so clear-cut. Without someone antagonizing them into it, like Madara or Danzo, the two clans can live in peace. Sasuke's revenge really has nothing to do with acting against the Senju.
Well, according to Obito it has everything to do with acting against the Senju. Maybe not at face value, but at least symbolically. Unless he was lying or crazy, there has to be more to it than what you're saying.

All of this basically goes back to whether or not there will be an ultimate or penultimate Naruto vs. Sasuke battle... but only time will tell.

miles0624
20th March 2013, 3:41 PM
Last I checked, we didn't see izuna's face when he was killed. There is nothing to imply he still had his original eyes.

I liked the chapter.

You know what. If Hashirama was this strong, I want to know how he was killed.

Platinum fan.
20th March 2013, 5:35 PM
I heard this chapter wasn't so popular. I actually really liked it. It's the best part of this flashback so far. I'm curious to see what happens next chapter, but I'm sure it's nothing to big. Maybe they end the flashback. The Hashirama and Madara relationship is how I figured Naruto and Sasuke would be if they grew up and Sasuke stayed evil. I wonder if that was the point? Anyway this chapter felt more realistic then the peace keeping crap Naruto spews out. Overall I can't really complain about this chapter. I enjoyed it for what it was.

Lorde
20th March 2013, 6:35 PM
I didn't see what was so great about the chapter. I mean it covered more than recent chapters but most of the information was stuff we already knew about (except for the Tobirama injuring Izuna part. That was interesting and new). I don't like that Kishi is trying to make us feel bad for Madara though; he was the last true villain imo and now it seems like we're supposed to blame everyone but him for the way he turned out.

Kamex
20th March 2013, 9:03 PM
Kind of interesting that Hashirama's current predicament is slightly similar to Itachi's. I assume Hashirama will have a solution or thoughtful words that will save him from Madara's ultimatum.

Shneak
20th March 2013, 10:29 PM
Surprised so many of you thought the chapter was lackluster. The first half was a bit slow, but the second half was pretty full of plot if you ask me.

I suppose so. Looking back, I think it was because the chapter was mostly explained by Hashirama's commentary and it used less flashback dialogue compared to the last few chapters.


Kind of interesting that Hashirama's current predicament is slightly similar to Itachi's. I assume Hashirama will have a solution or thoughtful words that will save him from Madara's ultimatum.

I didn't even notice the similarities until you posted. Remember who Hashirama is speaking to? It has to be intentional, so whatever the solution is to Hashirama's decision will have to influence Sasuke towards acting against Madara.

Kamex
21st March 2013, 1:09 AM
I didn't even notice the similarities until you posted. Remember who Hashirama is speaking to? It has to be intentional, so whatever the solution is to Hashirama's decision will have to influence Sasuke towards acting against Madara.
That's true, I guess this has to mean something to Sasuke.

Come to think of it, maybe Hashirama won't have a solution. Maybe he'll just willingly and selflessly give up his own life, and Madara will change his mind before it's too late. Then they'll have their truce and finally form their alliance. Just an idea.

Lorde
21st March 2013, 1:30 AM
That's true, I guess this has to mean something to Sasuke.

Come to think of it, maybe Hashirama won't have a solution. Maybe he'll just willingly and selflessly give up his own life, and Madara will change his mind before it's too late. Then they'll have their truce and finally form their alliance. Just an idea.

So Hashirama will basically be like Naruto and have no answers other than "have faith in me"? I'm hoping that the God of Shinobi is cooler than that. :p

Kamex
21st March 2013, 2:41 AM
So Hashirama will basically be like Naruto and have no answers other than "have faith in me"? I'm hoping that the God of Shinobi is cooler than that. :p
Haha well not necessarily; if he gives up his own life then that means Hashirama would be giving in (selflessly, not pathetically) and Madara would not be having faith in him. But then suddenly Madara will decide against it and just have faith in Hashirama of his own free will. But you're right, that would be kind of cliche. I guess this is the typical turn of events, maybe something more interesting will happen.

TsukiMirage
21st March 2013, 6:09 AM
What contradicted previous information? Not that I don't believe you, just curious what you're referring to. I think there's still a chance that Madara will have his own set of flashbacks with Izuna, it didn't seem like Hashirama was too concerned about him as he was of Madara and the big picture. But Izuna's death added another chip to Madara's shoulder, so he might get more in depth with him later on. I feel like Kishi's been leaving too many holes in our understanding of everyone's history, so hopefully he's not nearly done with that. We were previous told that/shown that Madara took Izuna's MS shortly after he began to go blind, with Izuna dying in battle afterwards while blind, and that the Senju sent a ceasefire sometime after that that Madara was forced to accept by the rest of his clan. This chapter has Izuna dying before Madara took his eyes and the ceasefire being offered before.


I wasn't trying to imply it would be a doujutsu, just a new technique in general... could be anything really. And although it's possible Kishi might retcon to do this, if I remember correctly he once said that he planned out an ending... so maybe he actually knows what he's doing? I dunno lol. Oh, well the verity of the Rinnegan would be hard to mimic with a single technique. Having an ending planned out doesn't exactly mean he would have the plot itself planned out. The authors of Inuyasha and Harry Potter had an ending planned out but admitted to making up the storyline as they went along.


Kind of the same deal with Naruto: if Kishi wants to, he can give Sasuke a new technique, the Rinnegan, a unique power for his Mangekyou Sharingan, some random Deus ex Machina, etc., depending on how powerful he wants him to be. Especially if he wants to make the youngsters finally overtake the legends (whether that's possible is arguable, I know, but the writer has the final say). Sasuke's due for a new technique, due to gaining EMS, but that seems about it. And unless it's a hell of a hax technique, it won't put him on Madara's level. Kishi seems to want it both ways, as apart from a few characters, the past generations have pretty much maintain being stronger.


Well, according to Obito it has everything to do with acting against the Senju. Maybe not at face value, but at least symbolically. Unless he was lying or crazy, there has to be more to it than what you're saying.

All of this basically goes back to whether or not there will be an ultimate or penultimate Naruto vs. Sasuke battle... but only time will tell. I would point out that neither Obito or Sasuke have given a care towards Tsunade, the last actually remaining Senju, and both of their actions have been about personal revenge. And in Sasuke's situation, his targets were people who opposed the standard Senju teachings.

insanejames
21st March 2013, 6:47 AM
Haha well not necessarily; if he gives up his own life then that means Hashirama would be giving in (selflessly, not pathetically) and Madara would not be having faith in him. But then suddenly Madara will decide against it and just have faith in Hashirama of his own free will. But you're right, that would be kind of cliche. I guess this is the typical turn of events, maybe something more interesting will happen.

i like this and hope this happen i do i one idea but it's really out there. he kiills him self and that is way his borther develop the edo tensei but that would mean the frist was particaly immortal when he faced Madara. i hope it does't wind up that way

Kamex
22nd March 2013, 4:41 AM
Oh, well the verity of the Rinnegan would be hard to mimic with a single technique.
Not necessarily a technique then, maybe a new type of power similar to doujutsu or senjutsu or a tailed beast, except something that came from the Sage's son. Or even if it's just one technique, maybe it can be the most hax technique ever that can be combined with all of his other jutsu and skills.


I would point out that neither Obito or Sasuke have given a care towards Tsunade, the last actually remaining Senju, and both of their actions have been about personal revenge. And in Sasuke's situation, his targets were people who opposed the standard Senju teachings.
Nevertheless, the Senju vs. Uchiha rivalry that stems from the Sage of the Six Paths' sons' rivalry plus the Will of Fire and Curse of Hatred have been implied to be the underlying reason Obito and Sasuke and Madara all have their issues, and why Naruto and Sasuke have a rivalry in the first place. Even if it's not immediately obvious, this at least means there's a chance that the actual climax of the story will involve these concepts.


i like this and hope this happen i do i one idea but it's really out there. he kiills him self and that is way his borther develop the edo tensei but that would mean the frist was particaly immortal when he faced Madara. i hope it does't wind up that way
That would explain what influenced the Second Hokage's Edo Tensei, but it's a pretty wild theory. I'm not sure if a plot twist that crazy would fit in the plot nicely.

TsukiMirage
22nd March 2013, 11:35 PM
Not necessarily a technique then, maybe a new type of power similar to doujutsu or senjutsu or a tailed beast, except something that came from the Sage's son. Or even if it's just one technique, maybe it can be the most hax technique ever that can be combined with all of his other jutsu and skills. He's already got the body from the Rikudou Sennin, the only other things that got past down were the Sharingan and Mokuton. Well I guess the chakra chains could have been pasted down too, no much have been said about them.


Nevertheless, the Senju vs. Uchiha rivalry that stems from the Sage of the Six Paths' sons' rivalry plus the Will of Fire and Curse of Hatred have been implied to be the underlying reason Obito and Sasuke and Madara all have their issues, and why Naruto and Sasuke have a rivalry in the first place. Even if it's not immediately obvious, this at least means there's a chance that the actual climax of the story will involve these concepts. Will of Fire would apply to any ninja of Konoha, including the Uchiha, and the Curse of Hatred appears to be something Obito made up. The original rivalry over peace could be made to apply to Madara and Obito, what with their delusional attempt to bring peace, but not really Sasuke as he cares nothing about anything outside his personal revenge.

PokeMaster366
27th March 2013, 2:02 PM
The more I read through this backstory, the more demonized the Second Hokage seems to become.

miles0624
27th March 2013, 3:20 PM
The more I read through this backstory, the more demonized the Second Hokage seems to become.

I actually like it. Kishi is showing us how war affects different people. (Hashirama vs tobirama.) It's nice to have something different.

overlimit22
27th March 2013, 4:34 PM
I Agree, It gives us an Insight into the True nature of the Hokage's. Who have always seemed these powerful, perfect characters.

Lorde
27th March 2013, 6:30 PM
I'm surprised these flashbacks aren't over yet. I liked learning more about how Konoha was founded even though we sort of knew all the big stuff already. I can't help but wonder how the village would have turned out if Madara became Hokage instead of Hashirama though.

Locormus
27th March 2013, 7:02 PM
I'm surprised these flashbacks aren't over yet. I liked learning more about how Konoha was founded even though we sort of knew all the big stuff already. I can't help but wonder how the village would have turned out if Madara became Hokage instead of Hashirama though.

Probably not as good, judging by Madara's 'true dream'..

The ef was that? Madara likes being in a situation where he needs to fight apparently, and 'joining hands' was just a pussyfoot way of doing it, and hence he doesn't want to be pussyfooting anymore, and therefore wants go at Hashirama's jugular.. RIIIGHT... o.0

Joltik-Kid
27th March 2013, 7:26 PM
If I got the chapter right... Madara turned "evil" because things didn't go his way. Wasn't gonna be head leader, was hated by his best friends brother, and felt his own clan didn't respect him... why is it that villains never get a good reason

wingzx
27th March 2013, 7:36 PM
If I got the chapter right... Madara turned "evil" because things didn't go his way. Wasn't gonna be head leader, was hated by his best friends brother, and felt his own clan didn't respect him... why is it that villains never get a good reason

i agree it was a stupid reason to be evil :/ atleast give him a good reason... like his best friends brother goes out and slaughters more of his clan and his best friend does nothing about it.. sure it makes the hokages look like the bad ones but it be better then this

7 tyranitars
27th March 2013, 7:38 PM
Interesting chapter, nice to see how Konoha got it's name.

iFi Salamander
27th March 2013, 9:25 PM
All this chapter proved was Tobirama was essentially the turning point for almost every single incident and plot arch focused on in this series.

Shneak
27th March 2013, 9:46 PM
If I got the chapter right... Madara turned "evil" because things didn't go his way. Wasn't gonna be head leader, was hated by his best friends brother, and felt his own clan didn't respect him... why is it that villains never get a good reason

Why is that a bad reason? He's selfish, but he's also hated by everyone but his best friend. That can really screw a person up. And with what we've seen of Madara, he's pretty screwed up after all.

It's way better than Sasuke's reason. It's almost as if Hashirama is telling Sasuke that Madara has an actual reason to be what he's turned into, and Sasuke's turn to power is childish in retrospect. But in the end, neither Hashirama or Naruto could save their friend from the darkness...

The only thing that I don't like about this chapter was Madara sounding whiny whenever he made Hashi choose between him or Tobirama. Kind of sounds like a bitter ex-girlfriend or something. I really like how Konoha was named and the reactions between the two during that part.

Joltik-Kid
27th March 2013, 9:47 PM
i agree it was a stupid reason to be evil :/ atleast give him a good reason... like his best friends brother goes out and slaughters more of his clan and his best friend does nothing about it.. sure it makes the hokages look like the bad ones but it be better then this
Hard to believe Obito and Sasuke have better reasons yet aren't nearly as haxed up powerful like Madara


Why is that a bad reason? He's selfish, but he's also hated by everyone but his best friend. That can really screw a person up. And with what we've seen of Madara, he's pretty screwed up after all.

It's way better than Sasuke's reason. It's almost as if Hashirama is telling Sasuke that Madara has an actual reason to be what he's turned into, and Sasuke's turn to power is childish in retrospect. But in the end, neither Hashirama or Naruto could save their friend from the darkness...

The only thing that I don't like about this chapter was Madara sounding whiny whenever he made Hashi choose between him or Tobirama. Kind of sounds like a bitter ex-girlfriend or something. I really like how Konoha was named and the reactions between the two during that part.
Well I'm not saying it's a bad reason, just not a truly good one. He couldn't possibly change his ways at all to make people like him? Seriously though, you think having your entire clan killed by your only brother is a lame reason, but not being liked is a perfectly legit reason...

Shneak
27th March 2013, 9:59 PM
Hard to believe Obito and Sasuke have better reasons yet aren't nearly as haxed up powerful like Madara


Well I'm not saying it's a bad reason, just not a truly good one. He couldn't possibly change his ways at all to make people like him? Seriously though, you think having your entire clan killed by your only brother is a lame reason, but not being liked is a perfectly legit reason...

It's not amazing, but it fits Madara's persona. He's selfish and stubborn and he wouldn't go out of the way to make people like him. He expects them to like them for who he is.

Sasuke suffered, but his lust for power was primarily to use against Itachi. He went too far and lost it by joining the Akatsuki and going after other Leaf higher-ups. I don't think he really cares for his clan's sake, but more for personal retribution.

Lorde
27th March 2013, 11:37 PM
I still don't like the way Madara is being portrayed in these flashbacks. I mean I almost feel sorry for him, which I shouldn't feel since Madara's a major villain and I don't see how he could ever be redeemed anyway. I don't even think Naruto's talk no jutsu would be enough to change him, and even if it was I'd be really upset with such a sappy ending.

Shadow Lucario
27th March 2013, 11:41 PM
I wonder how bored Suigetsu is. He's probably still hiding behind Orochimaru in fear.

Platinum fan.
27th March 2013, 11:58 PM
This latest chapter was alright. I was wondering how they would solve the "Kill your brother" scene and they solved it. At first I thought it was just one big Sharingan illusion, Madara stopping Hashirama from killing himself seemed to fake at first, but I guess it all really happened. The entire time I was waiting for a Uchiha backstabbing but they really seem to try and make Tobirama the villain and not Madara. I think that is a load of bull, I don't mind a edgy Hokage, we all know they need one, but come on. Am I expected to believe that there is now a chance to save both Obito and Madara? I suppose when Naruto "Narutoizes" them they bring back Neji, like Nagato revived the fallen ninjas during the Pain assault on Konoha. Still this chapter held my interest. No complaints from me again.

TsukiMirage
28th March 2013, 12:00 AM
A better chapter then the last, though still badly paced and rushed. Don't think it's hard to say that Tobirama caused most of the problem. Seem pretty obvious that Hashirama was attempting to give Madara a reason to be protective of more then just his clan in hopes of keeping the peace. Anyway, so far the way we were told things went down have turnt out false, so can't predict what will come next apart from their inevitable final showdown.


The only thing that I don't like about this chapter was Madara sounding whiny whenever he made Hashi choose between him or Tobirama. Kind of sounds like a bitter ex-girlfriend or something. I really like how Konoha was named and the reactions between the two during that part. I think the point was that Hashirama kept taking advice from Tobirama, and Madara didn't truly believe that Hashirama would favor him over Tobirama.

-Raiga-
28th March 2013, 12:44 AM
A better chapter then the last, though still badly paced and rushed.

How so? The've spent what 5-6 chapters on it already. Now for me PERSONALLY, I think it makes sense to have quite a few chapters on why the manga could even exist at all, but when you consider how many people say they want Kishimoto to hurry up and get back to modern era, I think he's doing a great job finding that middle balance.

Locormus
28th March 2013, 1:14 AM
If I got the chapter right... Madara turned "evil" because things didn't go his way. Wasn't gonna be head leader, was hated by his best friends brother, and felt his own clan didn't respect him... why is it that villains never get a good reason

I think you got the chapter wrong, I know what Madara said at the end, but the 'pussyfooting'-line clearly suggests to me that Madara had this notion of Yin and Yang in constant struggle from the getgo. He clearly states that he has always known that they are each others Yin and Yang and thus have always been in a constant struggle, but he found that he was 'pussyfooting' around all the time.

I think Madara always had a competitive 'bloodlust' in him - even from the start with the stone skipping - and therefore always already felt that he was 'in conflict' or in 'struggle' with Hashirama, even when technically cooperating.

Hence why I think that - while Tobirama's pushing the Uchiha in a corner played a part - the bloodlust has always been there, and that Tobirama just killed off any hope of a better future, so Madara forsake hope, felt that the pussyfooting on such a small scale would go nowhere eventually, and said that they should beat around the bush and go head to head against each other. So he went back to pursueing what he liked most: that competitive vieing for superiority, which in Madara's case is equal to bloodlust.

The 'evilness' in Madara has always been there, diminished to 'pussyfooting' by Hashirama's talk-no-jutsu, while Madara accepted it as a minor struggle, but he could still live with that, because he lives of that 'struggle'. That's the big hint with Madara and his 'true dream', he had that since the start.


All this chapter proved was Tobirama was essentially the turning point for almost every single incident and plot arch focused on in this series.

The kage that nobody cared for obviously was going to play an equal part in the history. It would've been weird if he was just a strong guy, but the turning point between Hashirama and Tobirama was clearly the defining moment for the creation of Konoha for as we know it today.

- Hashirama (and Madara) set out the borders parameters.
- Tobirama structured it.
- Hiruzen did protect it while carrying over Tobirama's fears.
- Minato died young, and couldn't really do anything.
- Tsunade: Lets be honest, she has done little structurally.


It's not amazing, but it fits Madara's persona. He's selfish and stubborn and he wouldn't go out of the way to make people like him. He expects them to like them for who he is.

Sasuke suffered, but his lust for power was primarily to use against Itachi. He went too far and lost it by joining the Akatsuki and going after other Leaf higher-ups. I don't think he really cares for his clan's sake, but more for personal retribution.

See, the difference is that while Obito and Sasuke have gone haywire for a lust of 'retribution'. Madara has gone haywire because of an internal lust for strife and conflict.


A better chapter then the last, though still badly paced and rushed. Don't think it's hard to say that Tobirama caused most of the problem. Seem pretty obvious that Hashirama was attempting to give Madara a reason to be protective of more then just his clan in hopes of keeping the peace. Anyway, so far the way we were told things went down have turnt out false, so can't predict what will come next apart from their inevitable final showdown.

I think the point was that Hashirama kept taking advice from Tobirama, and Madara didn't truly believe that Hashirama would favor him over Tobirama.

Didn't we see that at the beginning of this flashback arc?

You're correct about the second bit though, that's why Madara said that he shouldn't have given him the choice between Tobirama or himself. And it wasn't even a case off Madara or Tobirama for Hashirama, but a case of the glass always being half empty for Madara.

J Ken
28th March 2013, 4:10 AM
I think this will be solved when Hashirama arrives to the battlefield and rekindles his lost love with Madara. jk

After seeing this flashback I wonder if Hashi really is stronger then the new Madara or if Madara is just blinded by his old obsession with him. We'll know when they meet again.

Icarus©
28th March 2013, 6:01 PM
I really thought that tobirama would commit suicide then and there
I let out a sigh of relief when he didn't

Madara becomes evil... dam dam dam.....

In this chapter Tobirama is being such a jerk. What's wrong with him?

Wondering though, who is the stronger of the two? Hashirama seems more likely

J Ken
28th March 2013, 6:08 PM
I really thought that tobirama would commit suicide then and there
I let out a sigh of relief when he didn't

Madara becomes evil... dam dam dam.....

In this chapter Tobirama is being such a jerk. What's wrong with him?

Wondering though, who is the stronger of the two? Tobirama seems more likely

He is justified he has lived a life of war and hatred so of course he would still hold prejudice towards the Uchiha. Actually it was well stated that Madara and Hashirama were the greatest of their time. So I don't think Tobirama has a chance against Madara.

Icarus©
28th March 2013, 6:29 PM
He is justified he has lived a life of war and hatred so of course he would still hold prejudice towards the Uchiha. Actually it was well stated that Madara and Hashirama were the greatest of their time. So I don't think Tobirama has a chance against Madara.

Sorry mispellt >.> i meant hashirama.
Yeah its likely, but regardless its still a shame.
Hashirama could have dealt with it at least for a while

Kamex
28th March 2013, 7:40 PM
Interesting to see how Hashirama and Madara are as adults. Even when their friendship almost rekindled and they were playfully naming the village and its leader, Hashirama had more power but could still act immature (in a funny way), but Madara still felt more stoic than he was as a kid. He definitely changed a lot.

Every team in Naruto's line has someone go to the darkness: Hashirama (Madara), Hiruzen (Danzo), Jiraiya (Orochimaru), I dunno about Minato, Kakashi (Obito), and of course Naruto (Sasuke). I suppose the Uchiha among those are the ones who've become the biggest problems, but in any case I wonder if Naruto is supposed to end this pattern.

Edit: Well I guess not all of them were team members the way they have three-man teams now, but still.

Lorde
28th March 2013, 8:11 PM
I really thought that tobirama would commit suicide then and there
I let out a sigh of relief when he didn't

We already know that he didn't die until after he became the Second Hokage though, so there was no way he was going to die before that. It would've been a huge plot hole.

PokeMaster366
28th March 2013, 8:34 PM
Interesting to see how Hashirama and Madara are as adults. Even when their friendship almost rekindled and they were playfully naming the village and its leader, Hashirama had more power but could still act immature (in a funny way), but Madara still felt more stoic than he was as a kid. He definitely changed a lot.

Every team in Naruto's line has someone go to the darkness: Hashirama (Madara), Hiruzen (Danzo), Jiraiya (Orochimaru), I dunno about Minato, Kakashi (Obito), and of course Naruto (Sasuke). I suppose the Uchiha among those are the ones who've become the biggest problems, but in any case I wonder if Naruto is supposed to end this pattern.

Edit: Well I guess not all of them were team members the way they have three-man teams now, but still.

An even bigger pattern is that Hiruzen trained Jiraiya's team and was killed by Orochimaru while Minato trained Kakashi's team and was technically killed by Obito (Obito brought the fox in and Minato had to sacrifice himself to stop it, so I'm counting that). All that's left is for Sasuke to kill Kakashi and the pattern will be complete.

Kamex
28th March 2013, 9:27 PM
An even bigger pattern is that Hiruzen trained Jiraiya's team and was killed by Orochimaru while Minato trained Kakashi's team and was technically killed by Obito (Obito brought the fox in and Minato had to sacrifice himself to stop it, so I'm counting that). All that's left is for Sasuke to kill Kakashi and the pattern will be complete.
I didn't think of that. That would be pretty crazy though, Sasuke killing Kakashi. Not sure if he can be redeemed from that this late into the story though haha.

Jb
28th March 2013, 9:53 PM
Interesting to see how Hashirama and Madara are as adults. Even when their friendship almost rekindled and they were playfully naming the village and its leader, Hashirama had more power but could still act immature (in a funny way), but Madara still felt more stoic than he was as a kid. He definitely changed a lot.

Every team in Naruto's line has someone go to the darkness: Hashirama (Madara), Hiruzen (Danzo), Jiraiya (Orochimaru), I dunno about Minato, Kakashi (Obito), and of course Naruto (Sasuke). I suppose the Uchiha among those are the ones who've become the biggest problems, but in any case I wonder if Naruto is supposed to end this pattern.

Edit: Well I guess not all of them were team members the way they have three-man teams now, but still.

I think Orochomaru is the biggest problem in the long run. Giving Sasuke the curse, attacking the village and killing the third, the sound four, and the Kabuto Edo Tensei business.

Shadow Lucario
28th March 2013, 10:16 PM
Interesting to see how Hashirama and Madara are as adults. Even when their friendship almost rekindled and they were playfully naming the village and its leader, Hashirama had more power but could still act immature (in a funny way), but Madara still felt more stoic than he was as a kid. He definitely changed a lot.

Every team in Naruto's line has someone go to the darkness: Hashirama (Madara), Hiruzen (Danzo), Jiraiya (Orochimaru), I dunno about Minato, Kakashi (Obito), and of course Naruto (Sasuke). I suppose the Uchiha among those are the ones who've become the biggest problems, but in any case I wonder if Naruto is supposed to end this pattern.

Edit: Well I guess not all of them were team members the way they have three-man teams now, but still.

I don't really consider Danzo as having gone to the darkness. He did what he thought was best for the village and lived for the village.

Kamex
28th March 2013, 10:31 PM
I think Orochomaru is the biggest problem in the long run. Giving Sasuke the curse, attacking the village and killing the third, the sound four, and the Kabuto Edo Tensei business.
I thought about that, but I feel like Orochimaru isn't as influential as he seemed to be in Part I, even considering his temporary influence on Sasuke or current events. Madara and Obito have the world at their fingertips at the moment (and have secretly been behind all kinds of criminal incidents for a long time). Even Sasuke has a great deal of potential to be a problem, although he admittedly hasn't done much permanent damage if any yet.


I don't really consider Danzo as having gone to the darkness. He did what he thought was best for the village and lived for the village.
Well sure, but it depends on what your definition of "going into the darkness" is, and where you draw the line. Technically, most villains - if not all of them - are well-intentioned (even Madara as we see now). They just have very extreme, unfair idealism leading them astray. But I see your point.

PokeMaster366
29th March 2013, 1:36 AM
I didn't think of that. That would be pretty crazy though, Sasuke killing Kakashi. Not sure if he can be redeemed from that this late into the story though haha.

Did I forget to mention that in your list of light/dark counterparts, the dark half always manages to outlive the light half? Bleeding hearts DO run out of blood early after all. Maybe it would be best if Naruto and Sasuke just killed each other, if only to stop the chain.

TsukiMirage
29th March 2013, 2:16 AM
How so? The've spent what 5-6 chapters on it already. Now for me PERSONALLY, I think it makes sense to have quite a few chapters on why the manga could even exist at all, but when you consider how many people say they want Kishimoto to hurry up and get back to modern era, I think he's doing a great job finding that middle balance. Well for me personally, I was hoping to learn about more then just the three characters in this flashback. We really haven't gotten anything new outside of their events.


Didn't we see that at the beginning of this flashback arc? Well I meant that it seems like there's gonna be something else inbetween Madara leaving and him fight that last fight with Hashirama.

Lorde
29th March 2013, 2:18 AM
I expect the balance of power among the villains to shift in Orochimaru's favor now that he's got all his jutsu back and he controls the four previous Hokage. Madara is essentially immortal at the moment, but we know that he won't be for long since he needs Obito to use Rinne Tensei to revive him as a normal human being in order to become the Juubi's jinchuriki. I think once that happens, he'll have at least one weakness and Orochimaru might become the final villain once Madara's been disposed of.

PokeMaster366
29th March 2013, 2:39 AM
I expect the balance of power among the villains to shift in Orochimaru's favor now that he's got all his jutsu back and he controls the four previous Hokage. Madara is essentially immortal at the moment, but we know that he won't be for long since he needs Obito to use Rinne Tensei to revive him as a normal human being in order to become the Juubi's jinchuriki. I think once that happens, he'll have at least one weakness and Orochimaru might become the final villain once Madara's been disposed of.

That sounds about right. Orochimaru does seem a lot like Van Kleiss from the Generator Rex series...or is it the other way around?

7 tyranitars
3rd April 2013, 2:06 PM
So their battle finally ended. I wonder what Sasuke will do now he knows about this. Probably ignore it and go on a rampage again though..

Lorde
3rd April 2013, 6:03 PM
I didn't think anything was accomplished by these flashbacks to be honest. I mean Hashirama's explanation of the past was nice and all, but I can't see Sasuke changing his mind just because he has the full story now. The village still seems corrupt even if it didn't start that way. At best Sasuke will try and kill Madara, but I'm not sure he'll side with the village until he fights Naruto (if that even happens at this point).

Joltik-Kid
3rd April 2013, 7:17 PM
I didn't think anything was accomplished by these flashbacks to be honest. I mean Hashirama's explanation of the past was nice and all, but I can't see Sasuke changing his mind just because he has the full story now. The village still seems corrupt even if it didn't start that way. At best Sasuke will try and kill Madara, but I'm not sure he'll side with the village until he fights Naruto (if that even happens at this point).
Pretty sure this chapter basically confirmed Naruto vs Sasuke will happen... if it happened in the past, it's bound to happen again. Seriously, why all the doubt when Kishi said himself that Naruto vs Sasuke will be the final battle

Ver-mont
3rd April 2013, 7:21 PM
I expect the balance of power among the villains to shift in Orochimaru's favor now that he's got all his jutsu back and he controls the four previous Hokage. Madara is essentially immortal at the moment, but we know that he won't be for long since he needs Obito to use Rinne Tensei to revive him as a normal human being in order to become the Juubi's jinchuriki. I think once that happens, he'll have at least one weakness and Orochimaru might become the final villain once Madara's been disposed of.

I think Orochimaru will turn his attention to Obito as soon as he's defeated.

Orochimaru wants a Uchiha body, and Obito has one complete with a Rinnegan even. I can see Orochimaru taking over his body upon his defeat and becoming the final villain.

Shneak
3rd April 2013, 10:37 PM
Pretty sure this chapter basically confirmed Naruto vs Sasuke will happen... if it happened in the past, it's bound to happen again. Seriously, why all the doubt when Kishi said himself that Naruto vs Sasuke will be the final battle

Well, with both Hashirama and Madara back from the dead, they're certainly teaching the modern two something: "I think you and I are destined to do this forever."

I really liked the shot that showed the Valley of the End. I'm glad that Kishi clarified that that was the final battle, since the landscape early in the flashback made me think otherwise. I'm glad that we're back to the present now as well.

Anyone notice that we had flashbacks within a flashback? Hashi telling the story in the present > Hashi explaining the final battle > Hashi talking about his and Madara's relationship.

TsukiMirage
3rd April 2013, 10:58 PM
Disappointed that not only was the beginning of the fight skipped, but apparently most of the penultimate of it. Still, was nice to finally see how their final fight went, even if it still left questions. The message of Hashirama's story was nice and all, but not exactly anything new. But it does seem like Sasuke took it to heart. Now all that's left is to hear what Minato has to say. Good finishing chapter.

Lorde
3rd April 2013, 11:13 PM
Some Madara fans on NF seem to be complaining that Hashirama "cheated" by stabbing Madara in the back, which I find ridiculous. Hashirama acted like a real ninja and took advantage of the situation. I can't fault him for doing whatever it took to defend his village.

pwnswitchclik
4th April 2013, 12:43 AM
How exactly does this chapter correlate with madara's old age thing?

Platinum fan.
4th April 2013, 1:40 AM
I actually really enjoyed the ending of this. Hashirama does everything to try and bring peace to the ninjas, to his family, even to the Uchihas, and especially to Madara and Madara just spits in his face. Okay I know that it's more then that, but still. I enjoyed Hashirama's killing blow to Madara. I only wish Naruto would do something like that to Sasuke and tell him that Konoha means everything to him and even if it's him, he'll slay any to protect the village. I know they are setting up Naruto to be "better" then Hashirama by having him beat Madara while Naruto will manage to save Sasuke, but I am officially a fan of Hashirama now, well more then I was before. Good for him. I'm looking forward to Sasuke's response. I think I know what it will be, for the sake of keeping the manga full of action.

Charminions
4th April 2013, 2:20 AM
The flashback in general was alright, but I really just want to see more interactions between the revived Hokages and the plan of action Sasuke and Orochimaru are going to take.

Kamex
4th April 2013, 10:09 AM
How exactly does this chapter correlate with madara's old age thing?
I don't think it's been revealed yet how Madara survived. Apparently even Hashirama doesn't know.

Hamichu
4th April 2013, 5:43 PM
I don't think it's been revealed yet how Madara survived. Apparently even Hashirama doesn't know.

What if someone found Madara and saved him like how Tobito was saved.
I mean, I doubt that's what happened, but it's possible.
OR, I mean, he unlocked the Rinnegan before he died, right? Maybe he used the Rinnegan to somehow save himself.

Shneak
4th April 2013, 10:43 PM
Some Madara fans on NF seem to be complaining that Hashirama "cheated" by stabbing Madara in the back, which I find ridiculous. Hashirama acted like a real ninja and took advantage of the situation. I can't fault him for doing whatever it took to defend his village.

He cheated by using a wood clone? Well, they must hate the hero of this manga then.

Shadow Lucario
4th April 2013, 11:04 PM
Some Madara fans on NF seem to be complaining that Hashirama "cheated" by stabbing Madara in the back, which I find ridiculous. Hashirama acted like a real ninja and took advantage of the situation. I can't fault him for doing whatever it took to defend his village.

How do you cheat in a fight to the death? They need to get over themselves. I guess Kakashi cheated against Zabuza since he appeared behind him too.

Lorde
4th April 2013, 11:52 PM
He cheated by using a wood clone? Well, they must hate the hero of this manga then.


How do you cheat in a fight to the death? They need to get over themselves. I guess Kakashi cheated against Zabuza since he appeared behind him too.

Yeah I don't get it either. I guess some people just think that Madara was invincible and that he would have won if Hashirama hadn't used a wood clone. Ironically enough, Madara also used a wood clone and tricked Tsunade during their fight, yet apparently that doesn't count lol.

By the way, here's the cover for volume 64. I think it looks pretty neat and it further confirms NaruHina:

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h328/shootitsutarja/Naruto-Manga-Volume-64.jpg

Hamichu
5th April 2013, 1:32 AM
Yeah I don't get it either. I guess some people just think that Madara was invincible and that he would have won if Hashirama hadn't used a wood clone. Ironically enough, Madara also used a wood clone and tricked Tsunade during their fight, yet apparently that doesn't count lol.

By the way, here's the cover for volume 64. I think it looks pretty neat and it further confirms NaruHina:

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h328/shootitsutarja/Naruto-Manga-Volume-64.jpg
Fans will make any sort of excuse to justify their favorite character being defeated, because, in their eyes, their favorite character is invincible, and so they call whatever means the opponent used to win "foul play". I find it idiotic. But who would try to defend Madara. He's a psychopath. He's a bit too overpowered, if you ask me. Like, Madara could've fought the entire war by himself. Well, maybe with the help of Tobito, and a few others, but you get what I mean.

Annyway, are those people on the cover of volume 64 on fire? ._.

DucksGoMooful
5th April 2013, 1:46 AM
Annyway, are those people on the cover of volume 64 on fire? ._.

They were given Kyuubi's chakra so they were on fire. It was in one of the chapters I believe, can't remember which one. I think around the time that the 10 tails was summoned, or about to be summoned.

Hamichu
5th April 2013, 3:04 AM
They were given Kyuubi's chakra so they were on fire. It was in one of the chapters I believe, can't remember which one. I think around the time that the 10 tails was summoned, or about to be summoned.

I was hoping that's what it was.
It was after Kurama had recharged his energy, so Nardo ran around giving energy to peeps.

justinjiaxinghu
5th April 2013, 4:10 AM
That was right after Neji died, and Hinata started encouraging Naruto :)
Anyways, I'm pretty sure Obito and Madara are going to be defeated very soon by the 4 Hokages xDDD And Hashirama cheated? LOL thats just being intelligent.

Check out the ten tails in the background of that cover :O

Shneak
5th April 2013, 10:31 PM
Cover

I've never noticed how insect-like the Juubi looks.

justinjiaxinghu
6th April 2013, 8:39 AM
It's all...shriveled up...ugh.

Platinum fan.
6th April 2013, 2:14 PM
Yeah I don't get it either. I guess some people just think that Madara was invincible and that he would have won if Hashirama hadn't used a wood clone. Ironically enough, Madara also used a wood clone and tricked Tsunade during their fight, yet apparently that doesn't count lol.

By the way, here's the cover for volume 64. I think it looks pretty neat and it further confirms NaruHina:

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h328/shootitsutarja/Naruto-Manga-Volume-64.jpg

I'm so behind on my Naruto volumes. The last one I got was volume 57. But this cover looks nice. I don't think it fully confirms NarutoxHinata but it's a nice little tease I guess. Cool cover. I can't remember the last time Hinata was on a cover.

nuzamaki90
6th April 2013, 8:08 PM
So now that the flashback is over.....I think it's finally time Sasuke finds out who Naruto's dad is..

I'm still hoping Orochimaru takes over the Hokages and go against Sasuke. I mean at first I was thinking Orochimaru was actually going to join the good guys now that it's obvious he can't beat Obito or Madara on his own, even if he had an Uchiha's body, but I really just want to see Minato and the Third Hokage have a showdown with Naruto, just after Obito and Madara are finished, because I think it's clear that Madara is only going to be taken down by either Hashirama again or Obito. Unless the Ninja Alliance actually end up killing Madara before Sasuke and the others get there.

Lorde
6th April 2013, 9:52 PM
I really hope the Juubi's next form looks more monstrous, 'cause its current form just looks ridiculous to the point where it's almost funny imo. I enjoyed the break from the main battle since we got some more information about Madara's past and everything, but I want to see what the Allied Shinobi Forces are doing to stop Madara. I really hope the pacing improves because I'm getting a bit tired of getting a bunch of chapters where little to no progress is made.

Platinum fan.
6th April 2013, 10:02 PM
The pacing in general for this war arc as been all over the place. I hope when we get back to the alliance vs Madara fight, they finish off Madara and Obito. I'm really just ready for Naruto vs Sasuke now, if we are still even getting it. I know it won't happen but I hope Sasuke seals the dead Hokages, kills Orochimaru, now that he has his answers and pretends like they were never revived in the first place. Edo Tensei has to be the most annoying jutsu in this entire series. I'm actually disliking it more then the Sharigan and all it's broken power.

Hamichu
6th April 2013, 10:20 PM
The pacing in general for this war arc as been all over the place. I hope when we get back to the alliance vs Madara fight, they finish off Madara and Obito. I'm really just ready for Naruto vs Sasuke now, if we are still even getting it. I know it won't happen but I hope Sasuke seals the dead Hokages, kills Orochimaru, now that he has his answers and pretends like they were never revived in the first place. Edo Tensei has to be the most annoying jutsu in this entire series. I'm actually disliking it more then the Sharigan and all it's broken power.

Do you really think Sasuke has the strength to seal the dead Hokages?
Hashirama broke out of Orochimaru's power without even trying.
Nope, Sasuke would get himself killed if he even tried.

Platinum fan.
6th April 2013, 10:41 PM
Do you really think Sasuke has the strength to seal the dead Hokages?
Hashirama broke out of Orochimaru's power without even trying.
Nope, Sasuke would get himself killed if he even tried.

No I don't. I did say "it won't happen." I just don't want the dead Hokage lingering around. I feel like they're going to be used as a mega cheap plot device to defeat Madara and Obito which will make the victory in general feel hollow to me.

Lorde
9th April 2013, 9:48 PM
Nope, Sasuke would get himself killed if he even tried.

He has plot armor that would prevent that from happening. Sasuke's safe at least until he fights Naruto.

I really hope the next chapter wraps up the Hokage and Sasuke discussion. I also want to hear what Sasuke has to say after all of this, although something tells me his mind is already made up and that these recent chapters were a waste at least as far as Sasuke's decision goes.

Emperor Empoleon
10th April 2013, 3:18 PM
Lo and behold, Sasuke is a Leaf Shinobi once more. And Itachi is what sealed the deal.

..Ughhhh..??? I'm kind of at a loss here.

I like the decision and his reasoning, but this is also a massive waste of plot, buildup, and foreshadowing.

And Oro is gonna be helping out too? wat

PokeMaster366
10th April 2013, 3:34 PM
Lo and behold, Sasuke is a Leaf Shinobi once more. And Itachi is what sealed the deal.

..Ughhhh..??? I'm kind of at a loss here.

I like the decision and his reasoning, but this is also a massive waste of plot, buildup, and foreshadowing.

And Oro is gonna be helping out too? wat

Personally, I was expecting Sasuke to say something like he's still going to destroy the village, but he's going to rebuild it into something better.

Hoorays for watching Harley Quinn's ninja version kick Suigetsu back into line, and about Orochimaru, I think he's a researcher first and a tyrannical overlord third (since we all know he's a pedophile second). I could see Orochimaru helping out anyway just because he still wants to do his experiments, and it's hard to do them when you're under an eternal genjutsu.

EmphaticPikachu
10th April 2013, 3:47 PM
I am amazed.

Amazed. Kishimoto actually did it. Sasuke actually did it.
This chapter was more inspiring then it should of have been. Possibly because of shiz that was going on in my life right now...
Good job sasuke.

Honestly, this entire thing would have been much more believable if it just wasn't exaggerated so much. How sasuke acted, and everything, its believable, its more the exaggeration of the events (making everything seem all over the top.). But I guess that's anime and manga for you. xD

On a side note, don't trust this yet. :P

BJPalmer85
10th April 2013, 3:49 PM
Good chapter!

Curious to see how Naruto handles Sasuke being back and what "gift" Minato has in store for Naruto.

B

Macklin
10th April 2013, 4:26 PM
... ... ...
I loved Naruto for years, Sasuke is my favorite character and no much fan bullying Kishimoto bowed down too, no matter how many sharks he jumped I stayed with it till recently...
My favorite character is Uchiha Sasuke, my second is Hyuuga Neji.
I'm not upset Neji died, to be quite frank I was upset he survived during the Search For Sasuke arc because none of them dying really cheapened the emotion of what they went through. If someone is going to have an epiphany at the moment of their death, the tone is ruined if no one actually dies.
As for Sasuke...what was the point of it all? What was the point of most of his story arcs? Sure he may now be 'bad ***' but he is also stupid, and ignorant and that is all there is left to his character, he is a stupid, ignorant, uber powerful, 1 dimensional character.

You see to me there is no consequence, no real long term fallout to the sins he's committed. If there is no consequence in the end then what is the point? Hey, not to say he couldn't be redeemed but his redemption should be more than him standing around listening to the fact that he knows nothing (ignorant), finds out info and ignores it just because (stupid) while people talk about how strong he has become (powerful).
Redemptions have to be hard, the consequences tough, that way when the character gets through to the other side and is finally redeemed we can feel that they have accomplished something. Having redemption be a simply yes or no decision to jump sides is too much, when I watch Sasuke's story develop in older episodes I won't care anymore. It doesn't matter; cause you know, whatever, he will solve every problem, kill every enemy, and jump back to the good side by simply nodding his head time again.

For all of those that say that perhaps consequences are coming, come on look at the Itachi mess...people will say once that they don't trust him but then everyone will nod and at some random point one will block a shot for the other and healing over Sasuke is good. The End.
Ugh...

pwnswitchclik
10th April 2013, 4:38 PM
Well this chapter kinda hyped me up, but it looks too good to be true, on a whim, I'm speculating that Orochimaru is gonna use the 3rd, 4th and 5th to take out the 1st, since he's alot more loose than the other three.

BTW, I was derping around narutobase.net, when I come across this:http://narutobase.net/forums/showthread.php?t=351226, about last week's chapter.

Conspiracies, Conspiracies everywhere.

Locormus
10th April 2013, 5:07 PM
Okay chapter, we'll finally get the ball rolling again, which is good.. But I didn't specifically like the way it was kicked.. That's all I guess..

We're getting to see the first and second in their second ET-battle, and the third and fourth in their first.

I'm pretty much most interested in two things:
1. What 'gift' does Minato have left to give Naruto? A hug?
2. How is the alliance going to react to Sasuke joining the battlefield? Surely not everybody is going to be as happygolucky as the Hokage's.. -.-

That being said, I want to know the status of the current kages, because they'll be drastically overshadowed by the older group.

Surely Oonoki, A and Tsunade will have a moment with the old Hokage's, but I can't see Gaara or Mei being useful at this point outside of Gaara's plotarmor.

Tsunade and Oonoki will probably recognize the Shodai and Nidaime, while A knows Minato and therefore have a moment with him. But of course, the biggest moment will be Minato walking onto the battlefield and Naruto's mouth dropping tenfeet to the floor.. Not exactly happy about that, because how many times can you say goodbye to your dead dad?

Joltik-Kid
10th April 2013, 5:13 PM
Sasuke only said he didn't want the village to be wasted...not that he's turning a new leaf. Of coarse the way Kishi is writing, guess I'm suppose to believe he's semi-good now.

lol at Karin XD

TsukiMirage
10th April 2013, 5:36 PM
Expected Itachi's words to have this effect, given the importance of Itachi to Sasuke. Wasn't expecting the Hokages to actually join the battle though, so that was a surprise. Seems like despite their recent power-up, Naruto and friends aren't gonna do much better. and nice to see Karin's back on the team, even if it does screw up her previous development. Good chapter.

HoennMaster
10th April 2013, 5:38 PM
Honestly don't know how I feel about this. Very glad this flashback and story is over and we get to see the Hokages in battle, but it seemed like Sasuke was persuaded too easy. Oh well, at least we can finally move on.

Joltik-Kid
10th April 2013, 6:02 PM
Expected Itachi's words to have this effect, given the importance of Itachi to Sasuke. Wasn't expecting the Hokages to actually join the battle though, so that was a surprise. Seems like despite their recent power-up, Naruto and friends aren't gonna do much better. and nice to see Karin's back on the team, even if it does screw up her previous development. Good chapter.
Glad you accept that Naruto's whole purpose in Part 2 just got f***ed over...

Lorde
10th April 2013, 8:17 PM
I loved this chapter because things actually happened. I was surprised that Sasuke decided to side with the village since he's usually so hard-headed, but I'm glad that he's finally redeeming himself. I also liked the new information that we learned like that Shisui was Kagami's son. I'm disappointed in Karin though. She just rejoined Sasuke like it was nothing and it makes her seem really weak. But Suigetsu's little plan to run away was hilarious.

lolipiece
10th April 2013, 8:18 PM
Ugh. Disgusting. This better not be the start of Sasuke becoming a good guy again.

No. No. He had his chance, and he wasted it ages ago.

Oh look, Karin's back. And she still loves Sasuke, even though he impaled her and left her to die.

Great job at writing women, Kishimoto.

Joltik-Kid
10th April 2013, 8:29 PM
Ugh. Disgusting. This better not be the start of Sasuke becoming a good guy again.

No. No. He had his chance, and he wasted it ages ago.

Oh look, Karin's back. And she still loves Sasuke, even though he impaled her and left her to die.

Great job at writing women, Kishimoto.
I honestly couldn't agree more with this post.

TsukiMirage
10th April 2013, 8:40 PM
Glad you accept that Naruto's whole purpose in Part 2 just got f***ed over... Naruto's purpose basically became bring peace once Pain was introduced. Besides, never did like the silliness of it, so I'm fine that it was done in a better way.

Joltik-Kid
10th April 2013, 8:47 PM
Naruto's purpose basically became bring peace once Pain was introduced. Besides, never did like the silliness of it, so I'm fine that it was done in a better way.
I don't see how in anyway possible that this was a better way... Your telling me history lessons prevent wars?

Lorde
10th April 2013, 8:50 PM
Your telling me history lessons prevent wars?

I wouldn't say that, but I do think it's good to hear both sides of a story before making a decision, and that's basically what Sasuke did. I just wish he had done this before; it would have saved us so much time. I'm mostly just glad that Sasuke wasn't TnJ'd by Naruto, which was a big fear of mine. But we probably won't get to see them fight each other now.

7 tyranitars
10th April 2013, 9:01 PM
I am glad Sasuke is siding with the Shinobi alliance against Madara and Obito. I must say, I never thought he would do that this quickly. But I am glad he did. I liked Sasuke till he turned evil so yeah :P. Who knows I might start liking him again now.

karin beatin up suigetsu those good old days :P.

I guese it fits Orochimaru going with them, since his main goal always have been researching.

Minatos big present reward might have been more of a joke, since it is *his* first time meeting Naruto. As his other part was just a memory.

Platinum fan.
10th April 2013, 9:27 PM
I don't know what to think of this chapter to be honest. I'll go with Karin first. I think Kishi himself didn't know where to go with Karin and so he just stuck her back to being a Sasuke groupie. Karin is officially a character not to be taken seriously at all. I just hope Ino doesn't regress to that Sasuke arrives otherwise all that build up of getting her away from that will just be gone in the wind.

I guess we really are going to get the old dead Hokages vs Madara and is monster. Look's like Naruto's generation just couldn't cut it. Oh well. Many things felt weird with this chapter. Orochimaru being okay with helping Konoha...I'm not sure what his motives are but I guess he'll help for now. As far as Sasuke turning good, I think there is more to it then that and I don't think Sasuke is fully reformed yet, but it simply on the road to recovery. It'll be like Hashirama and Madara calling a truce but then Madara went evil again, Sasuke could do the same to Naruto.


You know a character that's really been overlooked and it's almost sad? Obito. They build him up as this ultimate villain and he's playing second to Madara and now Orochimaru, of all people. Obito/Tobi does not feel like a threat at all anymore, just Madara's driving buddy. Wow things change.

Joltik-Kid
10th April 2013, 9:47 PM
I don't know what to think of this chapter to be honest. I'll go with Karin first. I think Kishi himself didn't know where to go with Karin and so he just stuck her back to being a Sasuke groupie. Karin is officially a character not to be taken seriously at all. I just hope Ino doesn't regress to that Sasuke arrives otherwise all that build up of getting her away from that will just be gone in the wind.
Too late, I was gonna post this ages ago, but Ino never got over Sasuke

http://24.media.tumblr.com/9ff300eead3d280bbe22ed6d3e39f123/tumblr_mgpyixEV511rx8f0yo1_1280.png

Platinum fan.
10th April 2013, 9:54 PM
Too late, I was gonna post this ages ago, but Ino never got over Sasuke

http://24.media.tumblr.com/9ff300eead3d280bbe22ed6d3e39f123/tumblr_mgpyixEV511rx8f0yo1_1280.png

There's also a scene when Danzo announces that Sasuke is free to be killed that Ino cries as well. I know Ino still harbor feelings for Sasuke, but at the very least her entire existence doesn't revolve around making him her boyfriend anymore. Ino did break away from that, but of course she still has feelings for Sasuke. To actually want her to fully break away from that is simply asking to much. This is Naruto after all, females don't get written well here.

Shneak
10th April 2013, 10:04 PM
- It's not a game, Sasuke. Hashi and Itachi both suffered. No need to get superior.
- Hashi's pouting face. Haha
- "Oh, right, you were Danzo's best friend... I kind of killed him." Hiruzen seems unsurprised.
- You're still not a good candidate, Orochi.
- Wow, that's an actually good emotional spread.
- Well, that's that. It only took a few years.
- Orochi looks like he's planning something else again.
- Lol. Suigetsu.
- KARIN! Better late than never.
- Girl has no dignity.
- Then again, Orochi has a point.
- Is Karin in prison clothing? Haha.
- I would not trust bringing Orochi to the battlefield just because he wants to watch Sasuke.
- Goddamn. That's epic.
- ANOTHER BREAKKKK. I swear, double issue better mean two chapters.

That was a really good chapter.

I kind of agree that Sasuke turned too quickly, but it's understandable that he's changed his mind. It also makes him instantly more likeable.

Man, what a rag-tag group. Suigetsu's right. 4 superhuman zombies, 3 monsters, and 2 idiots. I never would have expected these people to fight alongside each other.

Since the Flying Thunder God is apparently not happening, I'm predicting that this group will come across the Kage battlefield. Tsunade will be dead, but Orochi will revive her in an extra Zetsu. Zombie Tsunade is an unlimited chakra supply and the Kage would instantly get their supply replenished.

Shadow Lucario
10th April 2013, 10:07 PM
I honestly don't care that Karin didn't get over Sasuke. I mean it's Karin. She never interested me to begin with so even if she never developed I wouldn't care. On another note, does Madara know about Sasuke? Would knowing Sasuke is an Uchiha change Madara's tactics because Sasuke has broken the Tsukuyomi before so I wonder if the Infinite Tsukuyomi would be any different.

Lorde
10th April 2013, 10:16 PM
Madara shouldn't know about Sasuke since he was only recently resurrected and I don't think Obito has mentioned Sasuke to him. Also, I'm going to assume that the Infinite Tsukuyomi isn't like the normal version (hence the infinite part), so even Sasuke shouldn't be able to escape it.

J Ken
11th April 2013, 12:37 AM
Sasuke's apparent return to the good side is great. Maybe he will be like he was in the past. To be honest does anyone think that Obito has surpassed Minato at this point or if Madara surpassed Hashirama?

Banana Knight Arthur
11th April 2013, 1:06 AM
OMG so many feels, Sasuke has returned to the side of justice and righteousness.

Will it last?

Will Konoha and the Shinobi world forgive and forget?

Will Karin consumate her love for Sasuke?

Tune in next week for a new chapter of "Sasuke" Naruto.

PokeMaster366
11th April 2013, 1:27 AM
I honestly don't care that Karin didn't get over Sasuke. I mean it's Karin. She never interested me to begin with so even if she never developed I wouldn't care. On another note, does Madara know about Sasuke? Would knowing Sasuke is an Uchiha change Madara's tactics because Sasuke has broken the Tsukuyomi before so I wonder if the Infinite Tsukuyomi would be any different.

I'm honestly not surprised by Karin not getting over Sasuke. Karin is kind of like another version of Harley Quinn, a psychotic villian that works under The Joker. If you think about it like that, it just further cements the idea that Sasuke and Naruto are the Batman and Joker duo. I doubt that this was intentionally done, though.

Joltik-Kid
11th April 2013, 4:29 PM
There's also a scene when Danzo announces that Sasuke is free to be killed that Ino cries as well. I know Ino still harbor feelings for Sasuke, but at the very least her entire existence doesn't revolve around making him her boyfriend anymore. Ino did break away from that, but of course she still has feelings for Sasuke. To actually want her to fully break away from that is simply asking to much. This is Naruto after all, females don't get written well here.
You can't really say that Platinum...Ino barely appears enough for us to even get a good read on her :P


Sasuke's apparent return to the good side is great. Maybe he will be like he was in the past. To be honest does anyone think that Obito has surpassed Minato at this point or if Madara surpassed Hashirama?
You mean a jerk...because that's what he was in the past. Anything else would be OOC for him, people don't change that drastically that quickly. This s**t just happened in the span of 1-2 days manga time

Platinum fan.
11th April 2013, 6:16 PM
You can't really say that Platinum...Ino barely appears enough for us to even get a good read on her :P


You mean a jerk...because that's what he was in the past. Anything else would be OOC for him, people don't change that drastically that quickly. This s**t just happened in the span of 1-2 days manga time

Um, yeah I can. She hardly appears, I agree with that, but when she does appear it's pretty clear what she's doing and why she's doing it. I don't think you know what I'm trying to say about Ino and maybe I'm not wording it right. What I'm saying about the character is she's not just a Sasuke groupie anymore. I never said she was over him, because clearly she's not, but it's not the only reason she exist anymore like in part 1, that was all she was there for. A majority of Ino's panel time has nothing to do with Sasuke, in part 2. Yeah, Kishi will throw a little hint in that she still likes him from time to time, but it's not her sole reason for existing anymore. The Asuma fight and the fight with the Gold and Silver brothers, I forgot Ino was a Sasuke groupie. I'm not saying Ino's a wonderfully written character, but whenever she's not written as a Sasuke drooler, I find her far more likeable and enjoyable from the few scenes she gets and I would hate to see her going back to part 1 Ino again. That's all I'm saying.

TsukiMirage
11th April 2013, 7:12 PM
I don't see how in anyway possible that this was a better way... Your telling me history lessons prevent wars? Huh? No. Sasuke didn't change simply because of the history lesson; he changed more due to Itachi and his actions, which started when Itachi finally told him the truth. It makes much more sense that Sasuke would be changed by Itachi's actions, given the amount of devotion he had for his older brother, then to be changed by Naruto's actions.

Lorde
11th April 2013, 8:06 PM
Huh? No. Sasuke didn't change simply because of the history lesson; he changed more due to Itachi and his actions, which started when Itachi finally told him the truth. It makes much more sense that Sasuke would be changed by Itachi's actions, given the amount of devotion he had for his older brother, then to be changed by Naruto's actions.

Yeah, Itachi's the real hero here. It was his last words to Sasuke that convinced him to seek out the truth and that in turn helped Sasuke make his decision. I'm not a crazy Itachi fan like those that lurk around NF, but I do think Itachi made all the difference and he really redeemed himself not only by ending Edo Tensei but by making Sasuke question himself.

Anyway, is there a chapter next week or is WSJ going on break for Golden Week?

Banana Knight Arthur
12th April 2013, 12:14 AM
Huh? No. Sasuke didn't change simply because of the history lesson; he changed more due to Itachi and his actions, which started when Itachi finally told him the truth. It makes much more sense that Sasuke would be changed by Itachi's actions, given the amount of devotion he had for his older brother, then to be changed by Naruto's actions.

What precipitated Sasuke's desire to fight for the sake of Konoha was his desire to protect the city/village Itachi loved so much and gave his life to protect.

Emperor Empoleon
12th April 2013, 2:19 AM
Sasuke choice here was great, but if Naruto and/or Team 7 wasn't going to play a role in his inevitable change, then a decent chunk of story is kinda wasted..

Naruto and Sakura spent a long time attempting to reach him, and he implication for years was that their bond would ultimately set things straight. Even Itachi said that much in this very war arc. That "The one who can change you is no longer me" before he left to the afterlife again.

Now he's back, but that supposed bond has almost nothing to do with his decision...

ThePlatypusKing
12th April 2013, 5:03 AM
Just read the latest chapter. So happy. Might cry.

justinjiaxinghu
12th April 2013, 1:19 PM
I always lied telling you to forgive me.
I kept on pushing you away from me...
I didn't want to involve you...
But now I think...
...That maybe, *you* could've been the one to change our father, mother...and the Uchiha...
If only I had faced you from the start, and talked to you from the same point of view...
But I failed,
And now even if I tell you all this won't it won't reach you.
Thats why I will only tell you a part of the truth.
Even if you never forgive me...
...No matter what you do from now on...
I will always love you.

Anyways, GG Madara and Obito! It's been fun! ^.^

Rowdy
12th April 2013, 2:22 PM
Yeah, Itachi's the real hero here. It was his last words to Sasuke that convinced him to seek out the truth and that in turn helped Sasuke make his decision. I'm not a crazy Itachi fan like those that lurk around NF, but I do think Itachi made all the difference and he really redeemed himself not only by ending Edo Tensei but by making Sasuke question himself.

Anyway, is there a chapter next week or is WSJ going on break for Golden Week?

No chapter next week (crud) and possibly the week after assuming that week is being used as the Golden Week week break (double crud if it is).

7 tyranitars
12th April 2013, 8:38 PM
Always on those awesome moments there is a break :P

Joltik-Kid
12th April 2013, 9:09 PM
I'm not buying Sasuke's "change of heart"... Rome wasn't built in a day and neither do peoples views shift within that span.

Lorde
12th April 2013, 9:38 PM
I'm not buying Sasuke's "change of heart"... Rome wasn't built in a day and neither do peoples views shift within that span.

I really don't think it was sudden. Itachi made Sasuke realize that he had to get both sides of the story before making up his mind instead of just blindly hating Konoha. It was foretold like 30 chapters ago that he would get the chance to see things from another perspective and it happened. I think some people just dislike Sasuke and aren't willing to give him credit when he does something right.

And by the way, Nagato changed his mind in an instant after speaking with Naruto and went from hating Konoha because they killed his parents, to actually helping revive its citizens. So if he could change I don't see why Sasuke can't.

gohan5
12th April 2013, 10:05 PM
I'm not buying Sasuke's "change of heart"... Rome wasn't built in a day and neither do peoples views shift within that span.

Well it wasn't necessarily that sudden, he's a character that's been constantly changing his views since the beginning. Avenger, comrade, avenger, evil, psycopath, avenger again. Nothing really surprises me with him anymore. Again, I don't think it was that sudden since he's been stewing over this truth about Itachi and then Itachi's own words for quite a while now.


I really don't think it was sudden. Itachi made Sasuke realize that he had to get both sides of the story before making up his mind instead of just blindly hating Konoha. It was foretold like 30 chapters ago that he would get the chance to see things from another perspective and it happened. I think some people just dislike Sasuke and aren't willing to give him credit when he does something right.

And by the way, Nagato changed his mind in an instant after speaking with Naruto and went from hating Konoha because they killed his parents, to actually helping revive its citizens. So if he could change I don't see why Sasuke can't.

Pretty much this. I mean, I don't consider myself that big a fan of Sasuke either, but I can still acknowledge that this wasn't some split second decision on a whim, it's not how Sasuke thinks. And you're right about Nagato's heel turn being much more drastic. He went from despising the leaf, cursing and even killing his own teacher in cold blood, to helping Naruto because of what he said. Then there's the 4th Kazekage, so yeah Sasuke hardly seems that ridiculous when we compare to other characters that have changed their ways.

TsukiMirage
12th April 2013, 10:37 PM
I'm not buying Sasuke's "change of heart"... Rome wasn't built in a day and neither do peoples views shift within that span. Just think of it like this: Sasuke isn't doing this because it's the right thing to do, he's doing it for Itachi. That's pretty much the same reasons behind most of Sasuke's actions.

Joltik-Kid
13th April 2013, 12:03 AM
Well it wasn't necessarily that sudden, he's a character that's been constantly changing his views since the beginning. Avenger, comrade, avenger, evil, psycopath, avenger again. Nothing really surprises me with him anymore. Again, I don't think it was that sudden since he's been stewing over this truth about Itachi and then Itachi's own words for quite a while now.
Nope, it was sudden, last time we saw him before Itachi's return he was talking about how he'd destroy Naruto and the village. Then even during his meeting with Itachi, he still stated he'd destroy the Leaf. You and Ciccone are looking at it wrong anyway, sure it took place over thirty chapters, but by manga timing, it's been exactly only a day or two :/

gohan5
13th April 2013, 12:19 AM
Nope, it was sudden, last time we saw him before Itachi's return he was talking about how he'd destroy Naruto and the village. Then even during his meeting with Itachi, he still stated he'd destroy the Leaf. You and Ciccone are looking at it wrong anyway, sure it took place over thirty chapters, but by manga timing, it's been exactly only a day or two :/

And that matters because? Our opinions can't be wrong. Besides if you wanna apply it to real life, people can make decisions in a day lol. But I don't think it was that sudden, since we've been expecting a Sasuke change for a while.

Shneak
13th April 2013, 3:42 AM
It was really Hashirama that pushed Sasuke to fighting for the Leaf and not against. I mean, it's obviously all for Itachi's sake, but Sasuke and Hashirama being in similar predicaments completed the transition.

TsukiMirage
13th April 2013, 8:05 PM
Nope, it was sudden, last time we saw him before Itachi's return he was talking about how he'd destroy Naruto and the village. Then even during his meeting with Itachi, he still stated he'd destroy the Leaf. You and Ciccone are looking at it wrong anyway, sure it took place over thirty chapters, but by manga timing, it's been exactly only a day or two :/ And once Itachi showed him what happen, Sasuke begun to reconsider his choice. Thus the reason he decided to speak with the Kages in the first place, and thus the reason when Suigetsu brought up the idea of destroy Konoha, Sasuke chose otherwise.

Lorde
13th April 2013, 8:38 PM
It was really Hashirama that pushed Sasuke to fighting for the Leaf and not against. I mean, it's obviously all for Itachi's sake, but Sasuke and Hashirama being in similar predicaments completed the transition.

I disagree. I mean I think Hashirama did a good job of telling Sasuke about the village's past, but I don't think he did enough to show the Uchiha clan's contribution. He mostly talked about how Madara went and ruined their dream, which only made Madara look bad and since Sasuke never cared about him to begin with, I don't think it was enough to change Sasuke's mind. I think Hashirama should have spoken more about the good things that the Uchiha did that way Sasuke would see that his clan was considered to be a great asset.

EmphaticPikachu
14th April 2013, 6:09 AM
Nope, it was sudden, last time we saw him before Itachi's return he was talking about how he'd destroy Naruto and the village. Then even during his meeting with Itachi, he still stated he'd destroy the Leaf. You and Ciccone are looking at it wrong anyway, sure it took place over thirty chapters, but by manga timing, it's been exactly only a day or two :/

that is true.However maybe it's just me but...

He said it was such emptyness to me...the way the manga panel looked like when he was telling itachi "I'm gonna destroy the leaf anyway!" seemed so...like he was lying to himself. He was saying it because thats already what he told his brother.
The way he said his words, they just seemed so exxagerated and obviously faulting, Itachi's word's were effecting him, he just wasn't admitting it.

And while I might be possibly interpreting it wrong, people communicate their feelings with more then just words. Body language is especially effective at convincing someone.

pwnswitchclik
14th April 2013, 8:15 PM
Pardon me for my n00b question, but does "double issue" mean two simultaneous chapters in once?

Shadow Lucario
14th April 2013, 9:49 PM
Pardon me for my n00b question, but does "double issue" mean two simultaneous chapters in once?

Nope. It just counts for two weeks. So we'll get a chapter one week and have to wait another for the next.

pwnswitchclik
14th April 2013, 10:53 PM
Nope. It just counts for two weeks. So we'll get a chapter one week and have to wait another for the next.

Drats. I kinda had my hopes up it would be two chapters in once. Joke's on me, I guess xD

Platinum fan.
16th April 2013, 1:38 AM
With Sasuke's "change of heart" I wonder if he's going to apologize to team seven like he did Karin. "Oh hey Sakura, sorry for nearly Chidoring your face off, and almost killing you Kakashi and Naruto. I'm also sorry for laughing in your faces and making you worry for over three years and vowing to kill everyone in the village. I'm also sorry for aiding the Akatsuki that one time and for pretty much making Raikage lose his arm and I guess I'm sorry for killing Danzo...well not really sorry about him." Oh the build up of Naruto.

Lorde
16th April 2013, 4:25 AM
With Sasuke's "change of heart" I wonder if he's going to apologize to team seven like he did Karin. "Oh hey Sakura, sorry for nearly Chidoring your face off, and almost killing you Kakashi and Naruto. I'm also sorry for laughing in your faces and making you worry for over three years and vowing to kill everyone in the village. I'm also sorry for aiding the Akatsuki that one time and for pretty much making Raikage lose his arm and I guess I'm sorry for killing Danzo...well not really sorry about him." Oh the build up of Naruto.

I don't think he'll apologize because he's really stubborn. And to be honest, I think Team 7 would take him back no matter what so I don't think Sasuke has to repent or anything. The other villagers on the other hand, probably won't be so eager to accept him until Naruto whips out his infamous Talk no Jutsu which will make everything better. :rolleyes:

Agility
16th April 2013, 8:17 AM
Don't forget Friendship no Jutsu!

I'm sure, if Sasuke really has become a Leaf shinobi (so to speak) once more, he'll find some way to apologize to them. If he apologized to Karin, I'm sure he will to Naruto and Sakura.

Kamex
16th April 2013, 10:33 AM
Well, so much for all those scenes teasing Naruto vs. Sasuke in every single Shippuden opening theme.

I don't mind the fact that Itachi had a big hand in changing Sasuke, and I even couldn't help but smile at the fact that Sasuke noticed how similar Itachi's ideals were to Hashirama's. But after everything the plot's showed us concerning Sasuke - the tragic story of his entire life after all his bouts of insanity and anger - suddenly he decides he's going to be helpful...? I don't know how I should feel about this. I honestly don't think there was enough to lead up to it... but I guess it was the same with Nagato's Face Turn and Obito's Heel Turn.

And what's with Orochimaru and Karin suddenly being best friends with Sasuke again, not to mention him accepting that? Or the Third accepting Orochimaru? I'm not sure which one's kissing up to Sasuke more, Orochimaru or Karin. Karin was never that deep of a character in the first place, but I thought her little character development plus the fact that she's from the Uzumaki clan was going to mean something. Guess not. And Orochimaru needs to give up his villain license, cuz other than being a Dues Ex Machina to revive the Hokage, he's pretty much useless to the plot now as far as I'm concerned.

All of the humor of this chapter was nice, but sort of a slap in the face at the same time considering how rushed the important aspects of the story have obviously become. Kishi must have his editor constantly in his face to finish this manga, or maybe he's sick of it or something, because he built the plot way further than he seems to have the capacity to control anymore...


Redemptions have to be hard, the consequences tough, that way when the character gets through to the other side and is finally redeemed we can feel that they have accomplished something.
You're right. But Sasuke rejoining the good guys was always likely, hopefully Sasuke will still have appropriate consequences for his actions. I wouldn't be satisfied with a boring lawful punishment though. Some type of poetic justice would be best in my opinion.


There's also a scene when Danzo announces that Sasuke is free to be killed that Ino cries as well. I know Ino still harbor feelings for Sasuke, but at the very least her entire existence doesn't revolve around making him her boyfriend anymore. Ino did break away from that, but of course she still has feelings for Sasuke. To actually want her to fully break away from that is simply asking to much. This is Naruto after all, females don't get written well here.
Actually I think it makes sense that Ino didn't completely get over Sasuke. In real life it's not usually that simple to just forget about a strong crush very quickly. The fact that she's been able to move on for the most part despite that makes her better written than say, Sakura (although even Sakura finally changed at some point if I remember correctly).


To be honest does anyone think that Obito has surpassed Minato at this point or if Madara surpassed Hashirama?
I sort of felt Tobi surpassed or at least is very similar to Minato, but after his reveal as Obito he doesn't seem as enigmatically powerful anymore. He is a one trick pony for the most part, but his one trick is usually epic against anyone other than Kakashi. I think Madara has more sheer power and abilities than Hashirama now, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'd win in a fight. ;)


Huh? No. Sasuke didn't change simply because of the history lesson; he changed more due to Itachi and his actions, which started when Itachi finally told him the truth. It makes much more sense that Sasuke would be changed by Itachi's actions, given the amount of devotion he had for his older brother, then to be changed by Naruto's actions.
But it didn't really make sense considering Sasuke initially decided to go against Itachi's will (of fire) and ideals by destroying the Leaf, even right after hearing the entire truth about Itachi's life. Sure, I agree that Itachi has always had a strong effect on Sasuke (for better or for worse), and that he was now the greatest determiner in Sasuke's change, but I still feel like Kishi didn't give Sasuke enough time and plot events to justify it happening so quickly. But I guess we can blame that on his rushing the plot.

Not to mention, despite how illogical you think it is, the plot has implied that Naruto will have a hand in changing Sasuke ever since... forever.


Sasuke choice here was great, but if Naruto and/or Team 7 wasn't going to play a role in his inevitable change, then a decent chunk of story is kinda wasted..

Naruto and Sakura spent a long time attempting to reach him, and he implication for years was that their bond would ultimately set things straight. Even Itachi said that much in this very war arc. That "The one who can change you is no longer me" before he left to the afterlife again.

Now he's back, but that supposed bond has almost nothing to do with his decision...
Exactly!

If this wasn't shounen there might have been a more realistic turn of events for Sasuke. To be honest, this might sound cynical, but I think Danzo's end was the only realistic end to a villain in the entire series. He was stubborn until the very end, but just as he died we saw him show his sympathetic side and that he ultimately had good intentions that lead him down a dark path and he had to pay for it. Sasuke better end up dying or losing his Sharingan forever or something, because his whole story would be pretty screwed up if he doesn't sacrifice something.

SharpedoX
16th April 2013, 1:35 PM
Well, he did rid Konoha of some pestering Akatsuki, so it all evens out in the end, I suppose. Though the Kage Summit was a big stain.

I'm late to the party yet for me, the chapter was perfect. Nice seeing Karin return above all. His excuse for stabbing her was pathetic but what can one say? She still has a role to play if Kishimoto maintained her alive. We need to see more action from the ladies. Can't wait to see Team's 7 reaction to the reunited Hawk members. Kotetsu, Izumo, Iruka, Hatake, Tenten... give me all the lesser characters with a role and I'm as happy as can be. And Shisui is Kagami's son?! It makes sense. Nice to see Kagami was a benevolent Uchiha. I personally would love for him to return via Edo Tensei but it's a bit late for that and he probably was plain compared to other Uchiha. Still, it's my love for minor characters and underdogs that's speaking.

I'm not buying Orochimaru's change of heart for now. All in all, he still has the Hokage partially under his command. And now, time to see Minato's reaction to Obito and their possible fight. This is all warming up to be one of the most epic matches I've seen. The possibility of seeing this animated makes me an excited and proud fan.

Do you personally think there will be a chance to see a closure on what happened to Black Zetsu? I was hoping his fall would be... more graceful.

Kamex
16th April 2013, 7:06 PM
To be honest, this might sound cynical, but I think Danzo's end was the only realistic end to a villain in the entire series.
Okay maybe this is pushing a little too far, I liked Zabuza's end, and perhaps also Kimimaro, even Gaara, etc. But some of the redeeming of these characters came too easily, especially during the war arc. I guess I'm supposed to feel warm and fuzzy inside but it should take a bit of work to get that out of me.


Well, he did rid Konoha of some pestering Akatsuki, so it all evens out in the end, I suppose. Though the Kage Summit was a big stain.
The only thing going for Sasuke is that he never killed anyone who wasn't already hated or a wanted criminal. But I wouldn't say it all evens out, considering he was a major villain for the entirety of Part II until recently.


Nice seeing Karin return above all. His excuse for stabbing her was pathetic but what can one say?
Sasuke didn't even have an excuse, he just apologized and apparently all is well within one or two panels. Definitely rushed... I hope it's addressed a little more before the manga is finished.

I do like that Kagami was mentioned, but I kind of wish we got some more info on him. Although giving him a Mangekyou Sharingan probably would have been overkill. Speaking of which, I'm pretty interested to see an Eternal Mangekou Sharingan battle between Sasuke and Madara. I wonder how Madara will react to see someone else with one...

Platinum fan.
16th April 2013, 7:55 PM
I don't think he'll apologize because he's really stubborn. And to be honest, I think Team 7 would take him back no matter what so I don't think Sasuke has to repent or anything. The other villagers on the other hand, probably won't be so eager to accept him until Naruto whips out his infamous Talk no Jutsu which will make everything better. :rolleyes:

Talk no Justu is the worlds most powerful weapon. As long as Naruto doesn't bow to Raikage again, pleading not to kill Sasuke. The lowest point in Naruto's ninja career.

Jb
16th April 2013, 9:26 PM
It's funny because I actually see Naruto's Talk no Justu being just the thing that makes everyone forgive Sasuke if the time comes. Probably something about how anyone can change and brings up Nagato or something.

Too bad they can't just bring back Nagato, probably could end the war himself.

HoennMaster
17th April 2013, 9:37 AM
So I just saw on another website that there is no new chapter this week and that next week there is a double issue of SJ....does this mean two chapters next week?

lolipiece
17th April 2013, 10:01 AM
So I just saw on another website that there is no new chapter this week and that next week there is a double issue of SJ....does this mean two chapters next week?

No. It does not.

Lorde
17th April 2013, 10:34 PM
Talk no Justu is the worlds most powerful weapon. As long as Naruto doesn't bow to Raikage again, pleading not to kill Sasuke. The lowest point in Naruto's ninja career.

I think the Raikage has changed for the worst. Back when he was introduced he was such a bad *** and his stubbornness and fiery personality were charming character quirks. Now I fully expect him to cower at Naruto's feet instead of the other way around.


So I just saw on another website that there is no new chapter this week and that next week there is a double issue of SJ....does this mean two chapters next week?

Double issue is just a fancy term that means that the next issue counts for two weeks worth of reading material instead of one. It's a misnomer. Speaking of which, I thought Naruto was on break this week because of Golden Week, but I guess Kishi just wanted an extra week off for research purposes or something? Whatever. I just hope the manga comes back strong.

Platinum fan.
19th April 2013, 7:45 PM
I think the Raikage has changed for the worst. Back when he was introduced he was such a bad *** and his stubbornness and fiery personality were charming character quirks. Now I fully expect him to cower at Naruto's feet instead of the other way around.



Double issue is just a fancy term that means that the next issue counts for two weeks worth of reading material instead of one. It's a misnomer. Speaking of which, I thought Naruto was on break this week because of Golden Week, but I guess Kishi just wanted an extra week off for research purposes or something? Whatever. I just hope the manga comes back strong.

One of my all time fave moments in Naruto was Raikage *****slapping Sasuke even when he was covered in Amaterasu flames. Raikage did not care and slapped the taste out of Sasuke. Love that moment. Sasuke probably thought he had it under control and was acting cool with his flames and Raikage lets him have it. But even Raikage will fall to talk no jutsu.

PokeMaster366
19th April 2013, 10:42 PM
It's funny because I actually see Naruto's Talk no Justu being just the thing that makes everyone forgive Sasuke if the time comes. Probably something about how anyone can change and brings up Nagato or something.

Too bad they can't just bring back Nagato, probably could end the war himself.

Actually, Nagato was brought back alongside Itachi, but he was kept under control by the Edo Tensei.

BTW, what's the anime in your sig this time?

gohan5
19th April 2013, 10:58 PM
Actually, Nagato was brought back alongside Itachi, but he was kept under control by the Edo Tensei.

BTW, what's the anime in your sig this time?

I think he means too bad they can't bring him back again, this time on the Alliance's side.

Ore no Imouto Konnani Kawai Wake ga Nai (My Little Sister Can't Be this Cute).

TsukiMirage
21st April 2013, 5:35 AM
But it didn't really make sense considering Sasuke initially decided to go against Itachi's will (of fire) and ideals by destroying the Leaf, even right after hearing the entire truth about Itachi's life. Sure, I agree that Itachi has always had a strong effect on Sasuke (for better or for worse), and that he was now the greatest determiner in Sasuke's change, but I still feel like Kishi didn't give Sasuke enough time and plot events to justify it happening so quickly. But I guess we can blame that on his rushing the plot.

Not to mention, despite how illogical you think it is, the plot has implied that Naruto will have a hand in changing Sasuke ever since... forever. Technically, Sasuke's original goal was to simply deal with the council who was responsible, and it later became about all of Konoha as he became more crazy. In that, he did achieve his goal, killing Danzo. Afterwards, it was only a matter of showing Sasuke how much Itachi truly loved him and then what worth the village was. Sure it was rush when compared to Sasuke's growth as a villain, but it was relatively alright compared to the rest of the rushed plot.

Eh, it's more like it's been forever implied they would fight each other, which can still happen.

Lorde
23rd April 2013, 8:41 AM
Great. I wanted the manga to switch focus, but this chapter didn't really move the way I thought it would. Madara's reaction to Hashirama's chakra was interesting, but that was probably the only stand-out thing that happened. Oh, and Obito and Kakashi teleporting away from the fight. I guess Naruto won't get a chance to use his Talk no Jutsu after all.

lolipiece
23rd April 2013, 8:42 AM
God, when is the Ten-tails going to transform again.

This thing is completely non-threatening.

Shadow Lucario
23rd April 2013, 10:41 AM
I love Madara's rape face. Best part of the whole chapter by far.

Kamex
23rd April 2013, 11:03 AM
I wonder if Kakashi and Obito will be stuck in their alternate dimension forever now. Maybe Kakashi will somehow get Obito back on his side in time to help in the war again. And maybe they'll die doing so together.

Madara's crazy lol. It seems that unlike Obito, the Moon's Eye Plan is not his only remaining obsession (if he ever even intended on completing it).

SkyDeity
23rd April 2013, 2:52 PM
I love Madara's rape face. Best part of the whole chapter by far.

I was hoping I'd be the one to mention it first...I freaking loved that expression, aha.