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Platinum fan.
19th October 2013, 8:24 PM
Sasuke isn't even stronger than Itachi.

He can't beat Oro.

Naruto can't either, he's too stupid.

Sasuke can't beat Orochimaru? That's funny, I could have sworn he absorbed him with his own Jutsu, awhile back. Even if Orochimaru wasn't ill, what can he possibly do to Sasuke and his Sharingan? Naruto could easily beat Orochimaru now. Orochimaru could barely handle four-tailed out of control Naruto, how on earth can he deal with fully in control Kyuubi Mode Naruto with Kurama working alongside him? Orochimaru is old news, he'd have to get some kind upgrade to even be a main player right now. After all the insanely powerful stuff that's been shown, people actually think modern day Orochimaru is still a threat to Naruto or Sasuke?

As for Naruto surpassing Minato, It's been hinted several times in the the series, by the Sage Toads, Raikage, even Kakashi that Naruto is the new chosen one/whatever. He's the main hero of this story, of course he's going to surpass Minato if he hasn't done it already.

LightningMaster95
19th October 2013, 9:01 PM
Sasuke can't beat Orochimaru? That's funny, I could have sworn he absorbed him with his own Jutsu, awhile back. Even if Orochimaru wasn't ill, what can he possibly do to Sasuke and his Sharingan? Naruto could easily beat Orochimaru now. Orochimaru could barely handle four-tailed out of control Naruto, how on earth can he deal with fully in control Kyuubi Mode Naruto with Kurama working alongside him? Orochimaru is old news, he'd have to get some kind upgrade to even be a main player right now. After all the insanely powerful stuff that's been shown, people actually think modern day Orochimaru is still a threat to Naruto or Sasuke?

As for Naruto surpassing Minato, It's been hinted several times in the the series, by the Sage Toads, Raikage, even Kakashi that Naruto is the new chosen one/whatever. He's the main hero of this story, of course he's going to surpass Minato if he hasn't done it already.
a sick and no jutsu orochimaru gave the four tails trouble, imagine now he can use his jutsu stole all the power that kabuto had(the person who couldve killed sasuke easily if itachi didnt step in to save him)sasuke doesnt even come close to itachi in genjustu so his sharingan wont be much use since genjutsu is the only way that has been shown to beat Orochimaru other than the RDS.
we all know hes going to surpass minato eventually but right now it still looks like minato is ahead of him in everything

Platinum fan.
19th October 2013, 9:22 PM
a sick and no jutsu orochimaru gave the four tails trouble, imagine now he can use his jutsu stole all the power that kabuto had(the person who couldve killed sasuke easily if itachi didnt step in to save him)sasuke doesnt even come close to itachi in genjustu so his sharingan wont be much use since genjutsu is the only way that has been shown to beat Orochimaru other than the RDS.
we all know hes going to surpass minato eventually but right now it still looks like minato is ahead of him in everything

Orochimaru absorbing Kabuto's powers would count as a upgrade. I'm talking regular Orochimaru, the same Orochimaru who used all his energy fighting four-tailed Naruto, and had to retreat with Kabuto or face the possibility of getting killed, because Orochimaru does have limits and in that fight he clearly stated he reached his. He reached his limit against four tailed Naruto, how on earth could he stand up to Kyuubi Mode Naruto who can move as fast as Raikage?

I'm sorry but Orochimaru is not final villain material no matter how you look at it. He couldn't even destroy a single village without the help of Lackeys and still lost his arms. Compare that to Madara who needs no lackeys at all and is literally taking on the world best ninjas and knocking them around like flies. We also already saw Orochimaru fail to obtain Sasuke's body. Sasuke's genjutsu might not be as good as Itachi,s but it's enough to stop Orochimaru. He also has Mangekyou Sharingan, something Orochimaru has never been a match for. True it was Itachi doing it, but Sasuke's no slouch with the Sharingan either. This is the same Sasuke who nearly killed Killer Bee in full Eight Tails mode, and please don't tell me Orochimaru is stronger then Killer Bee's Eight Tail mode. I'm not saying Orochimaru's weak, he's still strong compared to regular ninjas, just not Naruto and Sasuke. Not without a upgrade.

I wouldn't say Minato's ahead of Naruto in everything. He's smarter, but Naruto looks stronger. He perfected Minato's unfinished Rasengan and used it in several ways.

Jb
19th October 2013, 10:21 PM
Naruto doesn't have the same power he does when he goes into his fits of rage.

It's the reason he beat Oro and Pain. Had not gone all 9T, he would have lost. Now that he has control, he wont got all tails and use that power.

Lorde
19th October 2013, 10:26 PM
Orochimaru absorbing Kabuto's powers would count as a upgrade.

To be fair, Orochimaru was just reabsorbing the powers that Kabuto got from him. So I wouldn't exactly call it an upgrade. It was more like he was getting back the powers he had lost, and even then it was just some of his powers since most of his jutsu were taken by the God of Death during Part 1 and he didn't get them back until later.

LightningMaster95
19th October 2013, 10:47 PM
Orochimaru absorbing Kabuto's powers would count as a upgrade. I'm talking regular Orochimaru, the same Orochimaru who used all his energy fighting four-tailed Naruto, and had to retreat with Kabuto or face the possibility of getting killed, because Orochimaru does have limits and in that fight he clearly stated he reached his. He reached his limit against four tailed Naruto, how on earth could he stand up to Kyuubi Mode Naruto who can move as fast as Raikage?

I'm sorry but Orochimaru is not final villain material no matter how you look at it. He couldn't even destroy a single village without the help of Lackeys and still lost his arms. Compare that to Madara who needs no lackeys at all and is literally taking on the world best ninjas and knocking them around like flies. We also already saw Orochimaru fail to obtain Sasuke's body. Sasuke's genjutsu might not be as good as Itachi,s but it's enough to stop Orochimaru. He also has Mangekyou Sharingan, something Orochimaru has never been a match for. True it was Itachi doing it, but Sasuke's no slouch with the Sharingan either. This is the same Sasuke who nearly killed Killer Bee in full Eight Tails mode, and please don't tell me Orochimaru is stronger then Killer Bee's Eight Tail mode. I'm not saying Orochimaru's weak, he's still strong compared to regular ninjas, just not Naruto and Sasuke. Not without a upgrade.

I wouldn't say Minato's ahead of Naruto in everything. He's smarter, but Naruto looks stronger. He perfected Minato's unfinished Rasengan and used it in several ways.
That regular orochimaru u said that faced naruto in the four tails form was sick and was still beating him without arms and jutsu
This is the thing ur not understanding orochimaru was sick and couldn't use his arms so u can't count that against him other than his fight with the 3rd hokage
Also r u saying sasuke could've killed bee in that fight because iirc the fight for me ended when bee punched a hole in sasuke's chest
But because of plot sasuke had to survive if u take away every upgrade sasuke has gotten(from itachi and orochimaru) he would be a worthless ninja that can only do tai jutsu
Also naruto completed the jutsu because he had tons of help while minato did it himself and died early also minato is showing he can use it differently as well

Platinum fan.
19th October 2013, 11:17 PM
To charmed, your right, I forgot that Orochimaru was taking back what Kabuto took from him.

To Tak310, Orochimaru had full control of his arms in his fight against Four-Tailed Naruto. What fight are you talking about? He used his arms quite often. Orochimaru had to regenerate a new body every minute in their fight. Naruto at one point cut him in half. Orochimaru was not at the point of dying in a bed like he was with Sasuke, when he fought Naruto in part 2, he was pretty healthy and active in the fight, until he fought Naruto, that's when he started acting sluggish. He had to retreat because he reached his limit in regenerating new bodies. I'm not saying Naruto would have clearly won that fight, but Orochimaru certainly wasn't either. His attack's barely slowed him down for short periods.

As for Sasuke vs Killer Bee, I'm not saying it was a fair fight. I think Killer Bee was way stronger then Sasuke and without Karin, Jugo, and Suigetsu, Bee would have won when he punched that hole into Sasuke, but that's not what happened. You're right that Sasuke had power of plot on his side, I complained about it quite a lot, but still doesn't change the fact that Sasuke managed to take Bee down with Amaterasu. Yes it was cheap, but it happened.

You say take away Sasuke's Uchiha upgrades and what is he? He's basically what Deidara described him as, a guy blessed with good genes. But the same could be said about everyone. Take away Orochimaru's Edo Tensei and what's left? What can he possibly do to Kyuubi Mode Naruto or Sasuke's Susanoo? Vomit snakes on them? I'm sorry but unless Orochimaru gets some kind of upgrade or powerup that gives him a incredible boost in power, I don't see him posing that big a threat. He's not Itachi level, he's not Nagato level, he's certainly not Obito or Madara, so why bring him back for a final fight? Orochimaru was a great part 1 villain and a played his part in part 2, but I don't see him as a bigger threat then the other villains of part 2. If he was, he would have been able to achieve every goal he set out to do.

Jb
19th October 2013, 11:38 PM
One thing Oro has that the others don't is his wide array of Jutsu.

I'm not saying that puts him on par with the other bad guy but it's been shown that pure power doesn't win fights all the time.

Platinum fan.
19th October 2013, 11:40 PM
That is true. I'm not saying Orochimaru is a lame villain, far from it. In fact he's one of my favorite villains of this series. He's not nearly as uber and broken as the likes of Madara and Obito to the point where it's like "seriously?" I'm trying to say is, I personally do not see him as a bigger threat then Madara and Obito. These two hax Uchiha are going to be a hard act to follow in terms of villains.

LightningMaster95
19th October 2013, 11:47 PM
To charmed, your right, I forgot that Orochimaru was taking back what Kabuto took from him.

To Tak310, Orochimaru had full control of his arms in his fight against Four-Tailed Naruto. What fight are you talking about? He used his arms quite often. Orochimaru had to regenerate a new body every minute in their fight. Naruto at one point cut him in half. Orochimaru was not at the point of dying in a bed like he was with Sasuke, when he fought Naruto in part 2, he was pretty healthy and active in the fight, until he fought Naruto, that's when he started acting sluggish. He had to retreat because he reached his limit in regenerating new bodies. I'm not saying Naruto would have clearly won that fight, but Orochimaru certainly wasn't either. His attack's barely slowed him down for short periods.

As for Sasuke vs Killer Bee, I'm not saying it was a fair fight. I think Killer Bee was way stronger then Sasuke and without Karin, Jugo, and Suigetsu, Bee would have won when he punched that hole into Sasuke, but that's not what happened. You're right that Sasuke had power of plot on his side, I complained about it quite a lot, but still doesn't change the fact that Sasuke managed to take Bee down with Amaterasu. Yes it was cheap, but it happened.

You say take away Sasuke's Uchiha upgrades and what is he? He's basically what Deidara described him as, a guy blessed with good genes. But the same could be said about everyone. Take away Orochimaru's Edo Tensei and what's left? What can he possibly do to Kyuubi Mode Naruto or Sasuke's Susanoo? Vomit snakes on them? I'm sorry but unless Orochimaru gets some kind of upgrade or powerup that gives him a incredible boost in power, I don't see him posing that big a threat. He's not Itachi level, he's not Nagato level, he's certainly not Obito or Madara, so why bring him back for a final fight? Orochimaru was a great part 1 villain and a played his part in part 2, but I don't see him as a bigger threat then the other villains of part 2. If he was, he would have been able to achieve every goal he set out to do.
After his fight with the 3rd he was never at full strength so lets leave that fight a draw
Without plot sasuke would've died against so many opponents and even with plot he still didn't beat bee, bee just left. It's like saying sasuke actually beat/killed itachi when he didnt
Jiraiya didn't have no power ups until his last fight(and was still powerful)and all the Sannin are around the same strength and oro was still able to compete with him

Platinum fan.
19th October 2013, 11:55 PM
After his fight with the 3rd he was never at full strength so lets leave that fight a draw
Without plot sasuke would've died against so many opponents and even with plot he still didn't beat bee, bee just left. It's like saying sasuke actually beat/killed itachi when he didnt
Jiraiya didn't have no power ups until his last fight(and was still powerful)and all the Sannin are around the same strength and oro was still able to compete with him

So you think Orochimaru with his good arms stands a chance against Kyuubi Naruto and current Sasuke and all his hax abilities? You think Orochimaru can surpass Madara and Obito as a threat when this is over? Again what can Orochimaru do without a upgrade to his powers? Edo Tensei has been useless this entire war and that was his best know trick.

LightningMaster95
20th October 2013, 12:17 AM
ems sasuke didnt stand a chance against sage kabuto and since orochimaru absorbed his powers and with his own battle experience and knowledge of alot of jutsus he can take on sasuke and since kishi stated that naruto and sasuke are equal in power yes.he can edo tensei the hokages except hasirama since he can break out also with akatsuki and he will beat them
about surpassing madara and obito,no unless he keeps on injecting himself with hdna

Platinum fan.
20th October 2013, 12:33 AM
ems sasuke didnt stand a chance against sage kabuto and since orochimaru absorbed his powers and with his own battle experience and knowledge of alot of jutsus he can take on sasuke and since kishi stated that naruto and sasuke are equal in power yes.he can edo tensei the hokages except hasirama since he can break out also with akatsuki and he will beat them
about surpassing madara and obito,no unless he keeps on injecting himself with hdna

Again, Edo Tensei's have been defeated left and right being sealed or talk no jutsu'd. The Akatsuki were all useless in the war minus Itachi and Nagato. Sage Kabuto was powerful without question but not on the same broken level of Madara and Obito. Naruto and Sasuke are fighting Obito who is powered by the Sage of Six Paths. So unless Orochimaru can get his hands on a power like that, I don't see him becoming a universal threat that Obito has become.

LightningMaster95
20th October 2013, 1:09 AM
Again, Edo Tensei's have been defeated left and right being sealed or talk no jutsu'd. The Akatsuki were all useless in the war minus Itachi and Nagato. Sage Kabuto was powerful without question but not on the same broken level of Madara and Obito. Naruto and Sasuke are fighting Obito who is powered by the Sage of Six Paths. So unless Orochimaru can get his hands on a power like that, I don't see him becoming a universal threat that Obito has become.
U really think oro is going to leave them with their emotions like Kabuto did,and how many times have they been saved by the hokages they're just outclassed in every way when it comes to fighting obito, the edo hokages are the ones doing much of the fighting against obito.
So the fight will be
Sage bijuu mode naruto or ems sasuke vs dragon/snake sage orochimaru with 3 hokages under his control and akatsuki(except kisame and konan) either way oro is taking this unless u think naruto or sasuke can take on 12 kage level opponents at the same time

TsukiMirage
20th October 2013, 1:12 AM
Sasuke's performance against Kabuto can't really be counted, as he was specifically holding back because they needed Kabuto alive. It's pretty doubtful that Kabuto would have been able to survive being lit on fire with Amaterasu. And while Sasuke likely couldn't have beaten Orochimaru had he gone all out before, current Sasuke probably can, considering Orochimaru's own words.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
20th October 2013, 1:16 AM
U really think oro is going to leave them with their emotions like Kabuto did
So basically what you're trying to say is they're going to have to fight Orochimaru after this is done with, correct?

LightningMaster95
20th October 2013, 1:29 AM
So basically what you're trying to say is they're going to have to fight Orochimaru after this is done with, correct?

After the war is over yes I think theyre(mainly naruto) are going to fight either orochimaru or sasuke that's what the whole story was leading up to either sasuke or orochimaru

@tsuki he could've just shed his skin to escape it and he wouldn't be able to land it if Kabuto does that one attack that's messes up their hearing and visibility

TsukiMirage
20th October 2013, 6:04 AM
Switching bodies is costly, and depending on where the flames were (such as on his face) it wouldn't really be an option. Even if he did switch, it wouldn't prevent Sasuke from doing it again. And his White Rage technique made it hard to concentrate, but as we saw, that didn't mean Sasuke wouldn't have been able to protect himself (as despite being affected by it, Itachi was still able to activate Susanoo when he needed to).

LightningMaster95
20th October 2013, 4:17 PM
Switching bodies is costly, and depending on where the flames were (such as on his face) it wouldn't really be an option. Even if he did switch, it wouldn't prevent Sasuke from doing it again. And his White Rage technique made it hard to concentrate, but as we saw, that didn't mean Sasuke wouldn't have been able to protect himself (as despite being affected by it, Itachi was still able to activate Susanoo when he needed to).
but the thing is sasuke couldnt protect himself if he was alone against kabuto he wouldve died after that attack he had to rely on itachi to protect him from kabuto,even sasuke said that he wouldnt be able to maintain susanoo because of that attack

Platinum fan.
20th October 2013, 4:39 PM
U really think oro is going to leave them with their emotions like Kabuto did,and how many times have they been saved by the hokages they're just outclassed in every way when it comes to fighting obito, the edo hokages are the ones doing much of the fighting against obito.
So the fight will be
Sage bijuu mode naruto or ems sasuke vs dragon/snake sage orochimaru with 3 hokages under his control and akatsuki(except kisame and konan) either way oro is taking this unless u think naruto or sasuke can take on 12 kage level opponents at the same time

Orochimaru doesn't have snake mode and if he does now after taking it from Kabuto then that counts as a upgrade. I'm talking about part 1 and early half part 2 Orochimaru. That Orochimaru does not stand a chance against Naruto or Sasuke, let alone if they are working together. Orochimaru's only strategy against them is Edo Tensei and even if they can't be talk no justu'd they can be sealed. It's why Edo Tensei isn't the groundbreaking jutsu it was in part 1. The akatsuki minus Itachi and Nagato are outclassed by the current Naruto and Sasuke. Did you see how the Allied Shinobi forces defeated them? Why waste energy bringing them back? The dead Hokages are the only one's who stand a chance and even then they'll just use that as a excuse to have Naruto and Sasuke defeat them and prove they are the future of the Shinobi world and the new Hashirama and Madara which is all this is leading up to. Orochimaru really doesn't have anything to top what Obito and Madara are doing right now, hence why I don't think he's final villain material, and there's nothing wrong with that. If they do find a way to powerup Orochimaru and make him somehow surpass the threat level of Obito and Madara then I'll take it all back and admit I was wrong.

TsukiMirage
20th October 2013, 5:36 PM
but the thing is sasuke couldnt protect himself if he was alone against kabuto he wouldve died after that attack he had to rely on itachi to protect him from kabuto,even sasuke said that he wouldnt be able to maintain susanoo because of that attack Had Sasuke been alone against Kabuto, he wouldn't have been holding back. There is absoultely no way that Kabuto could have stood up against an Amaterasu blade, a blade that instantly engulfed White Zetsu. And he couldn't maintain Susanoo because he already had Susanoo active before the attack began. We saw via Itachi that the White Rage technique wouldn't have prevented him from activating Susanoo at the last moment.

LightningMaster95
20th October 2013, 7:06 PM
Orochimaru doesn't have snake mode and if he does now after taking it from Kabuto then that counts as a upgrade. I'm talking about part 1 and early half part 2 Orochimaru. That Orochimaru does not stand a chance against Naruto or Sasuke, let alone if they are working together. Orochimaru's only strategy against them is Edo Tensei and even if they can't be talk no justu'd they can be sealed. It's why Edo Tensei isn't the groundbreaking jutsu it was in part 1. The akatsuki minus Itachi and Nagato are outclassed by the current Naruto and Sasuke. Did you see how the Allied Shinobi forces defeated them? Why waste energy bringing them back? The dead Hokages are the only one's who stand a chance and even then they'll just use that as a excuse to have Naruto and Sasuke defeat them and prove they are the future of the Shinobi world and the new Hashirama and Madara which is all this is leading up to. Orochimaru really doesn't have anything to top what Obito and Madara are doing right now, hence why I don't think he's final villain material, and there's nothing wrong with that. If they do find a way to powerup Orochimaru and make him somehow surpass the threat level of Obito and Madara then I'll take it all back and admit I was wrong.

Than that's not a fair fight since orochimaru was sick and couldn't use any jutsu without kabuto's help your making him weaker than he actually is sasuke barely stood a chance against deidara sasuke completely lost against itachi Naruto lost against Nagato when he wasn't even trying to kill him,lost to itachi,and that's just 3members add the hokages plus the rest of akatsuki sasuke gets beats by itachi and minato. while naruto loses to kisame and nagato

@tsuki than y did itachi have to to save him when sasuke could've just used susanoo to protect himself,it would've been over for sasuke because sasuke was looking at the floor and covering his ears while itachi was the one looking for Kabuto

Primera Stark
20th October 2013, 7:58 PM
Hey all, a new face here, recently came back to forums due to X/Y release, been into animanga for very long time.

Anyway, what's this Talk No Jutsu thing that you guys keep throwing around? If I had to assume, it would be Naruto's ability to sway others to his side, huh.

I highly doubt that Orochimaru would use hokages to stir up some trouble, especially when he knows Hasrihama can easily stop him, I mean like who would want to make an enemy of the 'God of Shinobi'. I am secretly hoping for him to have a change of heart and join Sasuke's side to help him get the title of next Hokage.

Lorde
20th October 2013, 9:23 PM
Anyway, what's this Talk No Jutsu thing that you guys keep throwing around? If I had to assume, it would be Naruto's ability to sway others to his side, huh.

Yeah. Apparently Naruto can make others change their minds by talking to them. I'm not sure if it's the author's way of promoting pacifist ideas, but it's really annoying when most of the big problems in this manga end with Naruto simply talking down to his enemies and making them change their perspective on life so easily.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
20th October 2013, 9:32 PM
I don't know guys, I just feel as if there is no need to fight Orochimaru and if he does try to fight against them, he couldn't because Hashirama isn't under his control. I do feel as if he will still try to get Sasuke's or someone else's body, but just not now. :/

TsukiMirage
20th October 2013, 10:44 PM
than y did itachi have to to save him when sasuke could've just used susanoo to protect himself,it would've been over for sasuke because sasuke was looking at the floor and covering his ears while itachi was the one looking for Kabuto Because as mentioned, Sasuke had Susanoo active before the technique was used and had to eventually drop it. And Itachi wasn't looking at Kabuto, he had his eyes closed and ears covered too. Itachi simply figured out that Kabuto was likely aiming for Sasuke.

LightningMaster95
21st October 2013, 12:24 AM
Because as mentioned, Sasuke had Susanoo active before the technique was used and had to eventually drop it. And Itachi wasn't looking at Kabuto, he had his eyes closed and ears covered too. Itachi simply figured out that Kabuto was likely aiming for Sasuke.

itachi opened his eyes to look for/at him
http://www.mangasee.com/manga/?series=Naruto&chapter=580&index=1&page=4
in the next page if itachi didnt step in sasuke wouldve been killed

Primera Stark
21st October 2013, 12:31 AM
I personally wouldn't want Naruto to turn out to be a reincarnation of So6P, neither do I want him to be next Hokage. I am still rooting for Sasuke in that area because I think it would be a very interesting turnout to whole story; both's story is very alike to Madara and Hashirama so I kinda want the outcome to be opposite to the latter, as in Naruto giving Hokage title to Sasuke like Hashirama originally planned to.

LightningMaster95
21st October 2013, 12:50 AM
I personally wouldn't want Naruto to turn out to be a reincarnation of So6P, neither do I want him to be next Hokage. I am still rooting for Sasuke in that area because I think it would be a very interesting turnout to whole story; both's story is very alike to Madara and Hashirama so I kinda want the outcome to be opposite to the latter, as in Naruto giving Hokage title to Sasuke like Hashirama originally planned to.
i wanted kakashi to be the next hokage but since he doesnt want it i guess my next choice is naruto
why do the best ninja never want to become hokage(i dont mean it as insult to the hokages#1-4) but come on jiraiya and kakashi were the strongest shinobis in the village for a long time but didnt accept the job even though they were offered it alot of times

Platinum fan.
21st October 2013, 1:25 AM
Than that's not a fair fight since orochimaru was sick and couldn't use any jutsu without kabuto's help your making him weaker than he actually is sasuke barely stood a chance against deidara sasuke completely lost against itachi Naruto lost against Nagato when he wasn't even trying to kill him,lost to itachi,and that's just 3members add the hokages plus the rest of akatsuki sasuke gets beats by itachi and minato. while naruto loses to kisame and nagato

@tsuki than y did itachi have to to save him when sasuke could've just used susanoo to protect himself,it would've been over for sasuke because sasuke was looking at the floor and covering his ears while itachi was the one looking for Kabuto

Orochimaru had full control of his hands after he switched bodies at the end of part 1. He used his hands several times in part 2 without help from Kabuto. Again the only akatsuki members that pose a threat are Itachi and Nagato. Sasuke defeated Deidara before he even had his upgraded Sharingan, what can he do against Susanoo? Naruto can probably beat Kisame, I don't know why you think Kyuubi Mode Naruto would lose against him. Unlike Killer Bee, Naruto is the main hero which means he'd triumph over Kisame. The Edo Tensei's can all be sealed, which is how the Allied Shinobi army defeated the zombie Akatsuki. The Kyuubi and Susanoo fusion can probably even take down Itachi and Nagato if it's the thing that defeats Sage Obito. Naruto and Sasuke are going to be the new two strongest ninjas on the planet. The Sannin have been surpassed. Orochimaru would need to steal Madara or Obito's body to even register on their level.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
21st October 2013, 1:37 AM
When you mention the hands of Orochimaru, I think it's about the ability to weave jutsu signs particularly the Edo Tensei, not the abililty to move them freely. Because before he summoned the Hokages, he summoned the Reaper Death Seal to regain his arms so he can perform the Edo Tensei.

Platinum fan.
21st October 2013, 1:43 AM
When you mention the hands of Orochimaru, I think it's about the ability to weave jutsu signs particularly the Edo Tensei, not the abililty to move them freely. Because before he summoned the Hokages, he summoned the Reaper Death Seal to regain his arms so he can perform the Edo Tensei.

Well to be honest, other then his fight with Sarutobi, I can't recall Orochimaru really using jutsu signs much, ever. He doesn't have that many fights. Before he switched bodies, he couldn't move his hands at all. They were literally dead weight on him. The current Orochimaru should be as strong as he was when he fought Sarutobi. He could be stronger if he does indeed gain all of Kabuto's powers, but I doubt it compares to Sharingan/Rinnegan power. At best they could always water down Naruto and Sasuke.

LightningMaster95
21st October 2013, 1:55 AM
Orochimaru had full control of his hands after he switched bodies at the end of part 1. He used his hands several times in part 2 without help from Kabuto. Again the only akatsuki members that pose a threat are Itachi and Nagato. Sasuke defeated Deidara before he even had his upgraded Sharingan, what can he do against Susanoo? Naruto can probably beat Kisame, I don't know why you think Kyuubi Mode Naruto would lose against him. Unlike Killer Bee, Naruto is the main hero which means he'd triumph over Kisame. The Edo Tensei's can all be sealed, which is how the Allied Shinobi army defeated the zombie Akatsuki. The Kyuubi and Susanoo fusion can probably even take down Itachi and Nagato if it's the thing that defeats Sage Obito. Naruto and Sasuke are going to be the new two strongest ninjas on the planet. The Sannin have been surpassed. Orochimaru would need to steal Madara or Obito's body to even register on their level.
i meant he couldnt use any jutsus that required hand seals. sasuke barely got away from that match thanks to suigetsu reverse summoning him and since hes edo tensei he can keep blowing himself up and doesnt have to hold back on using c3 explosives thats going to eventually wear down susanoo or simply go underground, kisame can absorb chakra or just use his water prison jutsu. wat ur running out of ideas(sorry not trying to sound like a jerk) that ur actually going with plot to protect them.we were talking 1 vs 1 not 2 vs 1 so the kyuubi and susanoo combo doesnt count. also how exactly are they going seal the edo tensei when they havent shown any sealing techniques

Platinum fan.
21st October 2013, 2:19 AM
i meant he couldnt use any jutsus that required hand seals. sasuke barely got away from that match thanks to suigetsu reverse summoning him and since hes edo tensei he can keep blowing himself up and doesnt have to hold back on using c3 explosives thats going to eventually wear down susanoo or simply go underground, kisame can absorb chakra or just use his water prison jutsu. wat ur running out of ideas(sorry not trying to sound like a jerk) that ur actually going with plot to protect them.we were talking 1 vs 1 not 2 vs 1 so the kyuubi and susanoo combo doesnt count. also how exactly are they going seal the edo tensei when they havent shown any sealing techniques

I'm not talking about 1 on 1, my entire argument is Orochimaru cannot beat Naruto and Sasuke at their current level. As for Deidara and Kisame, there is no Edo Tensei Kisame so you might as well take him off the table, he was gobbled up by sharks, there's nothing left of him apparently and he wasn't on the list, but even if he was I still think Naruto can beat. Even without plot power (which is what gives everyone in this series the edge, since none of these characters are actually real and follow a storyline plot comes into play, like it or not) Naruto has enhanced Taijutsu as well thanks to Sage Mode. He's no Gai, but he doesn't always have to use Chakra based attacks. His Shadow Clones can overpower Kisame in his Clone mobbing attack. Deidara was powerful, more powerful then some give him credit for, but Sasuke's Susanoo makes him almost invincible and he can burn Deidara or Genjutsu his way out. Even if Naruto and Sasuke don't know how to seal, others from the Allied Shinobi forces can if they have to rely on them. Deidara was a joke as a zombie compared to his flesh and blood self.

LightningMaster95
21st October 2013, 4:10 AM
I'm not talking about 1 on 1, my entire argument is Orochimaru cannot beat Naruto and Sasuke at their current level. As for Deidara and Kisame, there is no Edo Tensei Kisame so you might as well take him off the table, he was gobbled up by sharks, there's nothing left of him apparently and he wasn't on the list, but even if he was I still think Naruto can beat. Even without plot power (which is what gives everyone in this series the edge, since none of these characters are actually real and follow a storyline plot comes into play, like it or not) Naruto has enhanced Taijutsu as well thanks to Sage Mode. He's no Gai, but he doesn't always have to use Chakra based attacks. His Shadow Clones can overpower Kisame in his Clone mobbing attack. Deidara was powerful, more powerful then some give him credit for, but Sasuke's Susanoo makes him almost invincible and he can burn Deidara or Genjutsu his way out. Even if Naruto and Sasuke don't know how to seal, others from the Allied Shinobi forces can if they have to rely on them. Deidara was a joke as a zombie compared to his flesh and blood self.
U really think sasuke's genjutsu is going to work on deidara when deidara felt confident in going up against itachi a genjutsu master,bijuu mode minato+ tobirana and the 3rd is overkill already than adding the edo akatsuki makes this an easier match for orochimaru,than Nagato takes away chakra from naruto since kisame isn't there.

Platinum fan.
21st October 2013, 2:46 PM
U really think sasuke's genjutsu is going to work on deidara when deidara felt confident in going up against itachi a genjutsu master,bijuu mode minato+ tobirana and the 3rd is overkill already than adding the edo akatsuki makes this an easier match for orochimaru,than Nagato takes away chakra from naruto since kisame isn't there.

Yes, because it did the last time they fought, when Deidara was actually strong and a threat. Sasuke has Deidara beat in everything, if you go back and read the fight Sasuke has a answer to every single attack of Deidara, and this was before Sasuke even had EMS. Sasuke can shut down Deidara with lightning alone. The Akatsuki are gone. There's likely not going to be another Nagato fight and even if there was Naruto and Sasuke together can beat them. Just because Nagato was too much for Naruto in their last fight doesn't mean Naruto doesn't stand a chance in a third fight between them. Kimimaro was way stronger then Naruto the first time they fought, and look how easy he took down the Edo Tensei Zombie of him. Fights don't always have the same outcome. Naruto has a biijuu mode too which can go toe to toe with Minato's. Minato and Sarutobi aren't exactly the super shinobi part 1 made them out to be. They have flaws like everyone else. Hashirama wouldn't be under Orochimaru's control so he could help out as well, if they really have to add him.

Sasuke is going to surpass Madara, it's already been stated by Orochimaru himself, and Orochimaru is nowhere near Madara level. If he was he wouldn't have failed in destroying Konoha. This alone tells me Sasuke is stronger then Orochimaru. Orochimaru has no good defense against Sharingan. This is why I don't think Orochimaru is final villain material.

LightningMaster95
21st October 2013, 4:41 PM
Yes, because it did the last time they fought, when Deidara was actually strong and a threat. Sasuke has Deidara beat in everything, if you go back and read the fight Sasuke has a answer to every single attack of Deidara, and this was before Sasuke even had EMS. Sasuke can shut down Deidara with lightning alone. The Akatsuki are gone. There's likely not going to be another Nagato fight and even if there was Naruto and Sasuke together can beat them. Just because Nagato was too much for Naruto in their last fight doesn't mean Naruto doesn't stand a chance in a third fight between them. Kimimaro was way stronger then Naruto the first time they fought, and look how easy he took down the Edo Tensei Zombie of him. Fights don't always have the same outcome. Naruto has a biijuu mode too which can go toe to toe with Minato's. Minato and Sarutobi aren't exactly the super shinobi part 1 made them out to be. They have flaws like everyone else. Hashirama wouldn't be under Orochimaru's control so he could help out as well, if they really have to add him.

Sasuke is going to surpass Madara, it's already been stated by Orochimaru himself, and Orochimaru is nowhere near Madara level. If he was he wouldn't have failed in destroying Konoha. This alone tells me Sasuke is stronger then Orochimaru. Orochimaru has no good defense against Sharingan. This is why I don't think Orochimaru is final villain material.
Minato alone will beat naruto he's smarter and faster they're probably tied for raw strength and can keep up with obito attacks which naruto and sasuke can't even do.and yet saratobi and minato saved naruto against obito.i didn't say hasirama would come back I said the 2nd 3rd and the 4th since they're under orochimaru control those 3 alone would destroy them due to sasuke and naruto having no sealing techs even though Nagato beat him twice u still have hope. And again if plot wasn't involved orochimaru would've won sasuke and naruto would've died in their first mission but because of plot I know they're going to win. U can't bring in part 1 some of those materials are outdated and proven not to be true

Platinum fan.
21st October 2013, 7:46 PM
Minato alone will beat naruto he's smarter and faster they're probably tied for raw strength and can keep up with obito attacks which naruto and sasuke can't even do.and yet saratobi and minato saved naruto against obito.i didn't say hasirama would come back I said the 2nd 3rd and the 4th since they're under orochimaru control those 3 alone would destroy them due to sasuke and naruto having no sealing techs even though Nagato beat him twice u still have hope. And again if plot wasn't involved orochimaru would've won sasuke and naruto would've died in their first mission but because of plot I know they're going to win. U can't bring in part 1 some of those materials are outdated and proven not to be true

Naruto's beaten a lot of guys stronger, faster, and smarter then him so that's nothing new, I can give you a list if you want. Naruto's clever in his own right, and I don't think you're giving him or Sasuke the credit they deserve. They might get incredibly cheap upgrades compared to everyone else, but both were skilled on their own too. You comment about Orochimaru would have killed them on their first mission, I assume you mean the Chunin exams, because Orochimaru's character didn't even exist on their first mission in the land of waves. Orochimaru could have killed them and he purposely let them live because he needed Sasuke. I don't know how that relates to what I'm saying now and what I am saying now is Orochimaru cannot beat Kyuubi Mode/Sage Mode Naruto and EMS Susanoo Sasuke. Sasuke summoned Orochimaru from Anko's mark, in theory he can undo it and Orochimaru would disappear. And again, even if Naruto and Sasuke can't use seals, other members of the Allied Shinobi forces can. And since Hashirama is not controlled by Orochimaru, he would help Naruto and Sasuke, just like Itachi got free of Kabuto. So again, Orochimaru doesn't look as big a threat as Madara or Obito. And I'll say it again they are building up Sasuke to surpass Madara. That alone makes him better then Orochimaru.

LightningMaster95
21st October 2013, 8:07 PM
Naruto's beaten a lot of guys stronger, faster, and smarter then him so that's nothing new, I can give you a list if you want. Naruto's clever in his own right, and I don't think you're giving him or Sasuke the credit they deserve. They might get incredibly cheap upgrades compared to everyone else, but both were skilled on their own too. You comment about Orochimaru would have killed them on their first mission, I assume you mean the Chunin exams, because Orochimaru's character didn't even exist on their first mission in the land of waves. Orochimaru could have killed them and he purposely let them live because he needed Sasuke. I don't know how that relates to what I'm saying now and what I am saying now is Orochimaru cannot beat Kyuubi Mode/Sage Mode Naruto and EMS Susanoo Sasuke. Sasuke summoned Orochimaru from Anko's mark, in theory he can undo it and Orochimaru would disappear. And again, even if Naruto and Sasuke can't use seals, other members of the Allied Shinobi forces can. And since Hashirama is not controlled by Orochimaru, he would help Naruto and Sasuke, just like Itachi got free of Kabuto. So again, Orochimaru doesn't look as big a threat as Madara or Obito. And I'll say it again they are building up Sasuke to surpass Madara. That alone makes him better then Orochimaru.

i didnt mean orochimaru i meant their first actual mission against haku and zabuza the wouldve died (especially sasuke) but plot saved them.im not giving them credit because they havent earned it imo but i will admit naruto is smart during some battles but sasuke is reckless just charging in without thinking.now your bringing help for them and naruto and sasuke wont accept the help (battle against pain and itachi neither of them accepted help) naruto wont risk innocent lives and sasuke is overconfident. without plot protecting them do u really think they stand a chance against 3 hokages and 8 members of akatsuki (majority of them were kage level) and orochimaru (full health and knowledge on naruto and sasuke)

Platinum fan.
21st October 2013, 8:19 PM
i didnt mean orochimaru i meant their first actual mission against haku and zabuza the wouldve died (especially sasuke) but plot saved them.im not giving them credit because they havent earned it imo but i will admit naruto is smart during some battles but sasuke is reckless just charging in without thinking.now your bringing help for them and naruto and sasuke wont accept the help (battle against pain and itachi neither of them accepted help) naruto wont risk innocent lives and sasuke is overconfident. without plot protecting them do u really think they stand a chance against 3 hokages and 8 members of akatsuki (majority of them were kage level) and orochimaru (full health and knowledge on naruto and sasuke)

Well if we're going to keep using plot, then it's plot that Orochimaru came back in the first place and plot plus poor writing how he got his arms back, and even worse writing how he manages to disregard everything that was done to make sure the Hokages can't be summoned, and summon them anyway. Sasuke's full of cheap upgrades I admit but he has many fights where he uses his head to win. Do I think they stand a chance against all those guys you named? Against Orochimaru, yes they would win. There's really nothing regular Orochimaru can do against them without getting Edo Tensei's to fight his battle for him. Orochimaru cannot beat Sharingan, and Sasuke has some of the strongest Sharingan eyes around, and Naruto has Sage Mode and Kyuubi power with Kurama which has been more impressive then anything Orochimaru has done in this series. They can beat the Akatsuki because they already did. Sasuke beat Deidara. Naruto beat Kakuzu and Pain, it doesn't matter if he raged out during the Pain fight to save himself. The winner was Naruto and the loser was Pain/Nagato. The whole absorbing chakra thing can be resolved by Naruto going Sage Mode and turning the person into a frog statue. That might not always work but it did in the Pain fight. The 3 Hokages, I don't know. They haven't fought yet so it's we can only guess. You say the Akatsuki are kage level, well like it or not so are Naruto and Sasuke.

LightningMaster95
21st October 2013, 8:47 PM
Well if we're going to keep using plot, then it's plot that Orochimaru came back in the first place and plot plus poor writing how he got his arms back, and even worse writing how he manages to disregard everything that was done to make sure the Hokages can't be summoned, and summon them anyway. Sasuke's full of cheap upgrades I admit but he has many fights where he uses his head to win. Do I think they stand a chance against all those guys you named? Against Orochimaru, yes they would win. There's really nothing regular Orochimaru can do against them without getting Edo Tensei's to fight his battle for him. Orochimaru cannot beat Sharingan, and Sasuke has some of the strongest Sharingan eyes around, and Naruto has Sage Mode and Kyuubi power with Kurama which has been more impressive then anything Orochimaru has done in this series. They can beat the Akatsuki because they already did. Sasuke beat Deidara. Naruto beat Kakuzu and Pain, it doesn't matter if he raged out during the Pain fight to save himself. The winner was Naruto and the loser was Pain/Nagato. The whole absorbing chakra thing can be resolved by Naruto going Sage Mode and turning the person into a frog statue. That might not always work but it did in the Pain fight. The 3 Hokages, I don't know. They haven't fought yet so it's we can only guess. You say the Akatsuki are kage level, well like it or not so are Naruto and Sasuke.
to be fair pain actually won but because of plot naruto had to win (without plot naruto would be dead or without kurama).by "they" do u mean(sasuke and naruto or orochimaru and the edos).fine than take ems and ms(itachi activated for him) away from sasuke and the kyuubi away from naruto since thats not their actual power since ur taking away orochimaru's edos,the 3 hokages are fighting and theyre actually putting up a good fight against obito+ten tails, i never denied they werent kage level

Lorde
21st October 2013, 9:07 PM
Wait, did Tenten get a chakra cloak like the others, yet Sakura didn't? What's that about? I mean I know she was working with Tsunade but it's really lame that Kishi shaded her like that. She should have received some of Naruto's powers as well imo.

Platinum fan.
21st October 2013, 9:28 PM
to be fair pain actually won but because of plot naruto had to win (without plot naruto would be dead or without kurama).by "they" do u mean(sasuke and naruto or orochimaru and the edos).fine than take ems and ms(itachi activated for him) away from sasuke and the kyuubi away from naruto since thats not their actual power since ur taking away orochimaru's edos,the 3 hokages are fighting and theyre actually putting up a good fight against obito+ten tails, i never denied they werent kage level

Oh sorry I didn't know Pain actually won, I really couldn't tell with Naruto rasenganing Pain into the mountain and stopping his movements. By that logic, Sasuke beat Itachi. Itachi literally pulled Susanoo out his *** when Sasuke's lighting jutsu hit him. Before that it looked like Sasuke had won, but through plot Itachi had to look invincible with Susanoo and transfer his power to Sasuke before dying. Anyway this argument is starting to get silly now, this will be my last response and I'll say what I've been saying in every one of my post on this. The current Naruto and Sasuke can beat the Akatsuki, edo tensi or not, and current Orochimaru. I don't know about the dead Hokages, and to be blunt I really don't care either. If Orochimaru does turn the Hokages on them, Naruto and Sasuke would win regardless and they would simply be another famous name to add to the list of legendary ninjas Naruto and Sasuke have beaten. Unless Orochimaru has some super secret jutsu that he hasn't used until now, which would be stupid considering he he didn't use it on Sarutobi, I don't see Orochumaru posing a threat to Kyuubi Naruto and EMS Sasuke, whether he has Edo Tensei or not. If Orochimaru can't handle regular Sharingan how can he handle Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan? I don't believe for a second he can handle a fully powered Kyuubi Mode Naruto and Kurama team. And this is ultimately my point and this is the last time I'll say it. I do not think current Orochimaru can beat current Naruto and current Sasuke without a cheap upgrade of his own. He's nowhere near the threat level of Madara, Obito, and Juubi. That is my point and opinion.

-Raiga-
21st October 2013, 9:58 PM
And the winners for the page long argument that won't go anywhere are...


Wait, did Tenten get a chakra cloak like the others, yet Sakura didn't? What's that about? I mean I know she was working with Tsunade but it's really lame that Kishi shaded her like that. She should have received some of Naruto's powers as well imo.

Looks that way to me. Though I'm still trying to process the irony of Lee using something that's not taijutsu....maybe he kicked the rasengan at obito?

LightningMaster95
21st October 2013, 9:59 PM
Oh sorry I didn't know Pain actually won, I really couldn't tell with Naruto rasenganing Pain into the mountain and stopping his movements. By that logic, Sasuke beat Itachi. Itachi literally pulled Susanoo out his *** when Sasuke's lighting jutsu hit him. Before that it looked like Sasuke had won, but through plot Itachi had to look invincible with Susanoo and transfer his power to Sasuke before dying. Anyway this argument is starting to get silly now, this will be my last response and I'll say what I've been saying in every one of my post on this. The current Naruto and Sasuke can beat the Akatsuki, edo tensi or not, and current Orochimaru. I don't know about the dead Hokages, and to be blunt I really don't care either. If Orochimaru does turn the Hokages on them, Naruto and Sasuke would win regardless and they would simply be another famous name to add to the list of legendary ninjas Naruto and Sasuke have beaten. Unless Orochimaru has some super secret jutsu that he hasn't used until now, which would be stupid considering he he didn't use it on Sarutobi, I don't see Orochumaru posing a threat to Kyuubi Naruto and EMS Sasuke, whether he has Edo Tensei or not. If Orochimaru can't handle regular Sharingan how can he handle Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan? I don't believe for a second he can handle a fully powered Kyuubi Mode Naruto and Kurama team. And this is ultimately my point and this is the last time I'll say it. I do not think current Orochimaru can beat current Naruto and current Sasuke without a cheap upgrade of his own. He's nowhere near the threat level of Madara, Obito, and Juubi. That is my point and opinion.
o really who was on the floor beaten before someone came in tried to help him and itachi had contol over the match the whole time he was suprised a couple of times but thats it. they would only beat him because of plot and the whole good guys always have to win

Platinum fan.
21st October 2013, 10:46 PM
And the winners for the page long argument that won't go anywhere are...



Looks that way to me. Though I'm still trying to process the irony of Lee using something that's not taijutsu....maybe he kicked the rasengan at obito?

Sorry about that. I got carried away and didn't even see how long it was. I'm officially giving up the argument.

As for the thing with Sakura, I didn't even notice she didn't have Naruto's cloak, and I'm just now realizing yeah, Lee's doing something not taijutsu. It's funny but back when Rock Lee first debuted I always thought he had some kind of special power. When he blocked Sasuke's kick during the Chunin exam against those disguised teachers blocking the way to the classroom, Sasuke felt something weird about him and his injuries cleared up fast and when Sasuke fought him, it looked like Lee did some kind of sign right before his kick bypassed Sasuke's guard. I know they explained it was all taijutsu but I always wondered why his injuries healed quickly. It's kinda sad about Rock Lee. Part 1 built him up as a important character and he's really been sidelined in part 2.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
22nd October 2013, 1:13 AM
Wait, did Tenten get a chakra cloak like the others, yet Sakura didn't? What's that about? I mean I know she was working with Tsunade but it's really lame that Kishi shaded her like that. She should have received some of Naruto's powers as well imo.
Yeah, she's always casted in the back. Oh the feels. :( But, yeah I believe it's because she's working with Tsunade.

Before the war is over, I hope Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke cast a finishing blow together against Madara or something. I mean, I want to see Sakura get into the fight again.

LightningMaster95
22nd October 2013, 4:58 AM
Yeah, she's always casted in the back. Oh the feels. :( But, yeah I believe it's because she's working with Tsunade.

Before the war is over, I hope Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke cast a finishing blow together against Madara or something. I mean, I want to see Sakura get into the fight again.
i dont have a problem with naruto and sasuke dealing the final blow but sakura hasnt done anything to deserve a final blow on madara(sorry if that sounds wrong)

Platinum fan.
22nd October 2013, 3:29 PM
Yeah, she's always casted in the back. Oh the feels. :( But, yeah I believe it's because she's working with Tsunade.

Before the war is over, I hope Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke cast a finishing blow together against Madara or something. I mean, I want to see Sakura get into the fight again.

My hope is Tsunade's not fully recovered or runs out of chakra soon and Sakura fully takes over summoning those slugs or whatever, and she handles Tsunade's job from that point forward solo with Tsunade just looking on impressed. They got Naruto and Sasuke out of Jiraiya and Orochimaru's shadows, it's time for Sakura to step out of her Sannin's shadow as well. When it's over Tsunade can pet Sakura some more XD

TsukiMirage
22nd October 2013, 8:51 PM
itachi opened his eyes to look for/at him
http://www.mangasee.com/manga/?series=Naruto&chapter=580&index=1&page=4
in the next page if itachi didnt step in sasuke wouldve been killed Not sure how that goes against what I said. That he eventually opened his eyes doesn't change that Itachi did close his eyes before that, and there isn't any logical reason that Sasuke couldn't have done the same.

Lorde
22nd October 2013, 8:56 PM
My hope is Tsunade's not fully recovered or runs out of chakra soon and Sakura fully takes over summoning those slugs or whatever, and she handles Tsunade's job from that point forward solo with Tsunade just looking on impressed. They got Naruto and Sasuke out of Jiraiya and Orochimaru's shadows, it's time for Sakura to step out of her Sannin's shadow as well. When it's over Tsunade can pet Sakura some more XD

Kind of tired of seeing Sakura heal though. And her slug summoning jutsu has been done to death by Tsunade herself already so I'm not exactly thrilled about that either. I wish she would focus on hand-to-hand combat instead. All that super strength from the beginning of Part 2 seems to have become redundant recently because Kishi seems to have a grudge against Sakura for some reason. I want to see Sakura on a rampage through the battlefield to be honest.

Also, did anyone notice that this thread reached 1 million views recently? Naruto, its impact.

Platinum fan.
22nd October 2013, 11:58 PM
Kind of tired of seeing Sakura heal though. And her slug summoning jutsu has been done to death by Tsunade herself already so I'm not exactly thrilled about that either. I wish she would focus on hand-to-hand combat instead. All that super strength from the beginning of Part 2 seems to have become redundant recently because Kishi seems to have a grudge against Sakura for some reason. I want to see Sakura on a rampage through the battlefield to be honest.

Also, did anyone notice that this thread reached 1 million views recently? Naruto, its impact.

I'm still not crazy about Sakura being a Tsunade clone, but it's better then nothing. I still wish she was a genjutsu fighter or if your going to make her a medical ninja, make her one like Kabuto. Kabuto was a seriously cool medical ninja. He could give Hyuuga's a run for their money with how his touches can cut muscle tissue in your body. Imagine if Sakura fought more like that? Oh well, the handling of Sakura is just one of the Naruto series flaws. This war arc should have been made build her and the other Konoha eleven up. Well to be fair some of them did shine. I just wish Sakura being the future Tsunade had better build up so she could join Naruto and Sasuke in beating the crap out of Obito.

p96822
23rd October 2013, 12:21 AM
I'm still not crazy about Sakura being a Tsunade clone, but it's better then nothing. I still wish she was a genjutsu fighter or if your going to make her a medical ninja, make her one like Kabuto. Kabuto was a seriously cool medical ninja. He could give Hyuuga's a run for their money with how his touches can cut muscle tissue in your body. Imagine if Sakura fought more like that? Oh well, the handling of Sakura is just one of the Naruto series flaws. This war arc should have been made build her and the other Konoha eleven up. Well to be fair some of them did shine. I just wish Sakura being the future Tsunade had better build up so she could join Naruto and Sasuke in beating the crap out of Obito.

Really now. I can say that I don't see GenJustu so much in the manga to much to need one.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
23rd October 2013, 2:30 AM
i dont have a problem with naruto and sasuke dealing the final blow but sakura hasnt done anything to deserve a final blow on madara(sorry if that sounds wrong)
To be honest, if she really doesn't deserve the finishing blow to Madara, then neither does Naruto because he doesn't have anything to do with Madara either, except being necessary for completing his plan, which he doesn't need anymore. Sasuke seems to have more right if it's said like that. ._.

Something I loved about Tsunade is that people used to say she was the best Medical Ninja in Konoha but she intimidated her enemies with her monster strength, I want to see Sakura do that as well. I know she'd be too much like Tsunade, but it seems they've given up on her being a Genjutsu user. I do wonder why, Kurenai would have been an awesome mentor for her in the art of Genjutsu.

But, speaking of Kurenai, I want to see her baby. We only got an image of her and her son, I want to see Shikamaru holding him or something.

LightningMaster95
23rd October 2013, 3:54 AM
To be honest, if she really doesn't deserve the finishing blow to Madara, then neither does Naruto because he doesn't have anything to do with Madara either, except being necessary for completing his plan, which he doesn't need anymore. Sasuke seems to have more right if it's said like that. ._.
madara made obito turn evil,obito killed naruto's parents,dead parents=naruto's past
so madara has some connection to naruto without madara none of this wouldve ever happened
what sakura's connection/excuse to deal the final blow to madara? let me guess she's the main girl character(so she deserves it) or because it relates to naruto and sasuke

Lorde
23rd October 2013, 7:43 AM
New chapter is out. I don't know how I feel about the whole Bijuu extraction thing, although it was good seeing Gaara and Bee getting involved with that, as well as all the other characters who showed up for the tug-of-war. It seems like Obito is stuck in the same "dimension" that Gaara was stuck in when his Bijuu was extracted; I feel that he'll be talk no jutsu'd now.

lolipiece
23rd October 2013, 8:45 AM
Please don't call it a tug-of-war. This a serious mode, Kishi.

HoennMaster
23rd October 2013, 9:01 AM
I just hope this means we are almost done with this "war".

justinjiaxinghu
23rd October 2013, 9:24 AM
Obito got rekt. I liked how everyone actually worked together in this part. finally its not all about naruto and sasuke.

LightningMaster95
23rd October 2013, 12:26 PM
and obito is going to get talk no jutsu by naruto than die in a couple of chapters

Platinum fan.
23rd October 2013, 4:00 PM
Talk no jutsu, the most powerful ninja jutsu in the world. It can break mountains, slay Bijuu's, turn the most brainwashed and evil villains into regretful harmless kittens looking for world peace. Be wary of talk no jutsu as it will ruin any plans you might have of taking over the world, getting revenge for your dead girlfriend, and will completely change the way you view your ideals, no matter how hard you believed in them before you were talk no jutsu'd.

This chapter felt like it was finally gearing up to the final of the Obito fight. To bad we still have Madara to deal with next otherwise we could end the war with Obito's defeat, then dive right into Naruto vs Sasuke, that fight still needs to happen imo. I did enjoy Gaara and Killer Bee getting involved. I forgot Gaara was even in this fight, so it's good he appeared with Bee. Shikamaru and friends continue to help with Kyuubi cloaks, because we all know their characters are important enough to actually help on their own. I hope we end this war by the end of 2013. A average chapter.

Lorde
23rd October 2013, 7:35 PM
At least several characters appeared and did something other than just stand in the background. I still think there are 20 or so chapters left until the war ends though. Madara needs to be taken out before it can end. I also really liked the colored cover page this time. Kishi hasn't done one of those in a while and this one turned out great.

Platinum fan.
24th October 2013, 12:11 AM
At least several characters appeared and did something other than just stand in the background. I still think there are 20 or so chapters left until the war ends though. Madara needs to be taken out before it can end. I also really liked the colored cover page this time. Kishi hasn't done one of those in a while and this one turned out great.

Hopefully the war ends by the start of next year. I can see it winding down by the end of 2013, but not fully ending just yet. I think it will drag on till next year possibly, but the sooner it ends the better for me.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
24th October 2013, 2:59 AM
let me guess she's the main girl character(so she deserves it) or because it relates to naruto and sasuke
No, it's because she gets screwed over too many times.

New chapter is out. I don't know how I feel about the whole Bijuu extraction thing, although it was good seeing Gaara and Bee getting involved with that, as well as all the other characters who showed up for the tug-of-war. It seems like Obito is stuck in the same "dimension" that Gaara was stuck in when his Bijuu was extracted; I feel that he'll be talk no jutsu'd now.
Agreed, it was so cool seeing Gaara and Bee extract their Bijuu, in Gaara's case, former Bijuu.

But seriously, I can see Obito dying like a hero or something. I can feel it in ma bones.

LightningMaster95
24th October 2013, 4:26 AM
No, it's because she gets screwed over too many times.
so have alot of characters but that doesnt mean she should take the 4th strongest character in the series(i guess now hes 3rd again behind 1st the real SO6P and 2nd hashirama)

Marco The Phoenix
24th October 2013, 8:00 AM
Only ONE line can describe this week's chapter of naruto... "Stop.. Don't come inside me!"

Platinum fan.
24th October 2013, 3:20 PM
No, it's because she gets screwed over too many times.

Agreed, it was so cool seeing Gaara and Bee extract their Bijuu, in Gaara's case, former Bijuu.

But seriously, I can see Obito dying like a hero or something. I can feel it in ma bones.

Gaara with a Bijuu feels like a lifetime ago, it's been so long. Did Naruto bond with Shukaku? It feels like the odd Bijuu out since it seemed like the only one that felt evil back in part 1. I don't want Obito to die a hero, to be honest. I wouldn't mind if he realized his mistakes and have one final moment with Kakashi before dying, but I just hope he doesn't pull a Nagato on us.

Lorde
24th October 2013, 8:37 PM
Only ONE line can describe this week's chapter of naruto... "Stop.. Don't come inside me!"

That was just one of the translations; I get the feeling that the innuendo wasn't there in the original version. :p

I wonder what will happen to the Bijuu now. Will they remain free in the wild, or will they be seal inside people again?

LightningMaster95
24th October 2013, 11:38 PM
Gaara with a Bijuu feels like a lifetime ago, it's been so long. Did Naruto bond with Shukaku? It feels like the odd Bijuu out since it seemed like the only one that felt evil back in part 1. I don't want Obito to die a hero, to be honest. I wouldn't mind if he realized his mistakes and have one final moment with Kakashi before dying, but I just hope he doesn't pull a Nagato on us.

i dont think so i didnt see it in the manga or the anime i think it was only bijuu #2-7,imo i think shukaku didnt appear because it didnt have a jinchuriki gaara was reborn and obito most likley didnt want to use rin as a jinchuriki. i would also like obito to have a goodbye with kakashi and minato, im thinking he is going to bring back everyone alive(pretty much neji is the only one that mattered that actually died) and we know he can bring back people from the dead so im not going rule it out yet

i think the 1 8 and 9 tails are going to stay(1 tail goes back to gaara) the rest will probably turn into smaller forms and live in the wild

Shneak
25th October 2013, 12:30 AM
Ugh, no.

I don't like this outcome. Naruto pulling the Juubi's chakra out of Obito is an asspull. And then Obito's suddenly like "welp, I'm regretting this." I hope he gets killed or suicides because there's no way he should just be able to live in society again.

Here's hoping Madara redeems this.

Platinum fan.
25th October 2013, 1:19 AM
i dont think so i didnt see it in the manga or the anime i think it was only bijuu #2-7,imo i think shukaku didnt appear because it didnt have a jinchuriki gaara was reborn and obito most likley didnt want to use rin as a jinchuriki. i would also like obito to have a goodbye with kakashi and minato, im thinking he is going to bring back everyone alive(pretty much neji is the only one that mattered that actually died) and we know he can bring back people from the dead so im not going rule it out yet

i think the 1 8 and 9 tails are going to stay(1 tail goes back to gaara) the rest will probably turn into smaller forms and live in the wild

And now I just got a mental vision of the tailed beast becoming the Entei, Raikou, and Suicunes of the Naruto world. Every time a ninja goes into tall grass battle music would kick in and a wild Bijuu would appear randomly.

Back on topic I hope we don't get a Nagato repeat. It would make this entire thing even cheaper.

Lorde
25th October 2013, 2:58 AM
Ugh, no.

I don't like this outcome. Naruto pulling the Juubi's chakra out of Obito is an asspull. And then Obito's suddenly like "welp, I'm regretting this." I hope he gets killed or suicides because there's no way he should just be able to live in society again.

Here's hoping Madara redeems this.

Naruto will probably forgive him; he forgave Nagato even though he killed Jiraiya and wrecked the village, and now he's gonna forgive the man who orchestrated his parent's death among other things. I don't even care for Madara any more if I'm being honest; he'll probably be talk no jutsu'd too.

Locormus
25th October 2013, 3:32 AM
What was I reading this week? This crap hit me out of left field!


Naruto will probably forgive him; he forgave Nagato even though he killed Jiraiya and wrecked the village, and now he's gonna forgive the man who orchestrated his parent's death among other things. I don't even care for Madara any more if I'm being honest; he'll probably be talk no jutsu'd too.

Kishi took it too far. It just ain't funny any more.

LightningMaster95
25th October 2013, 4:10 AM
Naruto will probably forgive him; he forgave Nagato even though he killed Jiraiya and wrecked the village, and now he's gonna forgive the man who orchestrated his parent's death among other things. I don't even care for Madara any more if I'm being honest; he'll probably be talk no jutsu'd too.
im pretty sure since he forgave nagato he can forgive anyone,nagato did kill his only parent/god father like figure and by the looks of it hes starting to forgive him.
madara if he gets talk no jutsu'd than the story would basically be pointless if naruto is not allowed to kill atleast let someone else finish the villain off

deathseer
25th October 2013, 4:36 AM
The only reason I would see that happening is because what Nagato did was more egregious. While Obito did orchestrate his parents death, it happened as soon as Naruto was born. He didn't get to know them, he didn't get to grow up with them, and until Part II, he didn't even know who they were. But with Jiraiya, he actually got to know him and develop a relationship with him which obviously hurt more once he lost him.

It's pretty much what Sasuke said when they fought at the Final Valley. He didn't even know his parents, so how would he know how it feels to lose them, unlike Sasuke who always had them and they were taken away. While Jiraiya isn't actually part of his family, he still meant a great deal to Naruto, and I imagine he finally felt what Sasuke was talking about.

So if he could forgive the person responsible for that, its not stretch that he could forgive someone responsible for killing people he never even knew.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
25th October 2013, 4:47 AM
Gaara with a Bijuu feels like a lifetime ago, it's been so long. Did Naruto bond with Shukaku? It feels like the odd Bijuu out since it seemed like the only one that felt evil back in part 1. I don't want Obito to die a hero, to be honest. I wouldn't mind if he realized his mistakes and have one final moment with Kakashi before dying, but I just hope he doesn't pull a Nagato on us.

Nah, I don't think he bonded with Shukaku, which sucks by the way because I liked the guy. And yeah I honestly hope it won't be a repeat. Just die as an epic villain or something, just not a hero. Like trying to kill Madara or something to stop the operation.

LightningMaster95
25th October 2013, 6:29 AM
The only reason I would see that happening is because what Nagato did was more egregious. While Obito did orchestrate his parents death, it happened as soon as Naruto was born. He didn't get to know them, he didn't get to grow up with them, and until Part II, he didn't even know who they were. But with Jiraiya, he actually got to know him and develop a relationship with him which obviously hurt more once he lost him.

It's pretty much what Sasuke said when they fought at the Final Valley. He didn't even know his parents, so how would he know how it feels to lose them, unlike Sasuke who always had them and they were taken away. While Jiraiya isn't actually part of his family, he still meant a great deal to Naruto, and I imagine he finally felt what Sasuke was talking about.

So if he could forgive the person responsible for that, its not stretch that he could forgive someone responsible for killing people he never even knew.
obito has caused more emotional pain to naruto because of obito and minato(in a way) naruto didnt have no friends growing up there is more but it relates to sasuke and kakashi
even though they werent related by blood he was part of his family jiraiya was his god father

Locormus
25th October 2013, 9:38 AM
The only reason I would see that happening is because what Nagato did was more egregious. While Obito did orchestrate his parents death, it happened as soon as Naruto was born. He didn't get to know them, he didn't get to grow up with them, and until Part II, he didn't even know who they were. But with Jiraiya, he actually got to know him and develop a relationship with him which obviously hurt more once he lost him.

It's pretty much what Sasuke said when they fought at the Final Valley. He didn't even know his parents, so how would he know how it feels to lose them, unlike Sasuke who always had them and they were taken away. While Jiraiya isn't actually part of his family, he still meant a great deal to Naruto, and I imagine he finally felt what Sasuke was talking about.

So if he could forgive the person responsible for that, its not stretch that he could forgive someone responsible for killing people he never even knew.

Your argument only makes sense if Naruto didn't know what his parents did for him and why they died. Naruto lived his early childhood without parents, without even knowing who his parents were, while also being shunned. This is true. Now if his parents died off in ambiguity, then you'd have a point. He'd just be an orphan (which still is a tough spot to be in, honestly). But he came to know his parents, and his parents died for him, even though he was only a few moments old as well. So the 'people he never even knew' both gave their lives in order to save him, a boy they didn't even know either. That mattered to Naruto.

I'm pretty sure you're just overlooking that part. It's not as if the event of Kushina and Minato dieing is a random event Naruto doesn't care about, it's their sacrifice that he's learned about and has great admiration for.

LightningMaster95
25th October 2013, 5:54 PM
i dont know how to feel about jiraiya kishimoto didnt bring him back and the war is close to be being over
good
we get to see jiraiya come back and interact with naruto/minato/orchimaru/tsunade/3rd hokage
bad
it would ruin his death imo he died a hero but might come back a villain and his 2nd death wont be as meaningful

Lorde
25th October 2013, 7:52 PM
Thank God Jiraiya wasn't revived. It would've been really awkward and it would have ruined his legacy. I suppose the same could be said about some of the other Edo Tensei ninja, but Jiraiya in particular sacrificed a lot. I wonder what Orochimaru will use the last White Zetsu clone for though.

LightningMaster95
25th October 2013, 8:48 PM
I wonder what Orochimaru will use the last White Zetsu clone for though.

he used four of them for the hokages the 5th one was for himself the last one was killed by jugo i think

Platinum fan.
26th October 2013, 1:07 AM
Thank God Jiraiya wasn't revived. It would've been really awkward and it would have ruined his legacy. I suppose the same could be said about some of the other Edo Tensei ninja, but Jiraiya in particular sacrificed a lot. I wonder what Orochimaru will use the last White Zetsu clone for though.

Imo a lot of characters were revived in this war that didn't need. Like every character that was dead. I would have enjoyed this war so much more if we had Obito/Tobi/whoever went around with Kabuto recruiting the worlds most evil and deadly ninjas that were left in the world instead of being lazy and just Edo Tensei nearly every villain we've ever seen back to life. There would be no Edo Tensei's and Naruto and friends would handle this war without having the dead Hokages literally holding their hands. That means no dead Hokages, no Akatsuki, no Orochimaru, no random other villains who appeared and did nothing like Kimmimaro and Chiyo. Very few of the Edo Tensei's got to even shine besides Madara. The ones that were impressive like the Gold and Silver brothers, could have been actual living ninjas of this era. They were cool up until they started ripping off Naruto's chakra. Zabuza and Haku were nice if only for nostalgia sakes. Asuma's fight with his students felt like the only meaningful Edo Tensei fight not involving Madara. It had good moments, but this war has been long, boring, exhausting, disappointing, and a overall mess. If I wasn't so interested in the Naruto series I'd have quit.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
26th October 2013, 2:46 AM
I'm still wondering will Rin be revived. I mean it seems like a lost cause now since the war is coming to its close, but still. The thought remains.

Lorde
26th October 2013, 3:14 AM
I'm still wondering will Rin be revived. I mean it seems like a lost cause now since the war is coming to its close, but still. The thought remains.

There's no reason for it to happen if Obito will die. And even if he didn't, it would come off as cheap. Rin being the whole catalyst for this war is already a bitter pill to swallow imo; why pour salt in our wounds by having said catalyst come back to life? I would personally be upset with that.

Mr. Fuji
26th October 2013, 4:29 AM
I don't think it's possible for Jiraiya to be revived, i thought it was said his body was lost deep in the water, with so much pressure it couldn't be retrieved. I should probably go and find this source, but I was sure it was mentioned.

I agree though, it's kind of cheesy, and over the top that Rin is the catalyst, and that no matter how much I like this whole arc, it would give me a sour taste if Obito somehow redeems himself or at least tries to. I don't think it fits here as it did with Nagato, plus it'd be nice having one legit evil villain. Also, I wonder if this is the last arc? has it been said? cause I also remember Kishimoto confirming there will be a Naruto vs Sasuke event again.

LightningMaster95
26th October 2013, 4:44 AM
I'm still wondering will Rin be revived. I mean it seems like a lost cause now since the war is coming to its close, but still. The thought remains.

i thought that wouldve been madara's trump card bring back rin it seemed like he knew something more about rin's death but didnt want to tell obito since he was trying to make him evil, he probably gave info about rin to the cloud or rock villages who ever was trying to capture her

and about jiraiya remember his arm wasnt torn off in the river/ocean so it can be in the tower iirc and i also wouldnt put it past orochimaru to have a blood sample of jiraiya and tsunade since they were his team mates

Mr. Fuji
26th October 2013, 3:36 PM
That's an interesting thought, Orochimaru keeping samples on his team mates because that's certainly not beyond him. It would be one of my favorite moments if Orochimaru used his Edo Tensei to help "even the odds" and Jiraiya came back to reunite the original sannin. I like that idea if Obito swings the momentum back to his side, otherwise it would be pretty meaningless to bring Jiraiya back when Naruto/Sasuke and company are handling everything completely fine, one can hope!

TsukiMirage
26th October 2013, 7:00 PM
Knew I was too optimistic last chapter. Still, this looks like Obito won't last much longer, so I'll bare it. Hopefully Madara pulls whatever trick he has up his sleeve's soon, before we get another debate between Naruto and Obito. Average chapter.

Platinum fan.
26th October 2013, 7:20 PM
I'm still wondering will Rin be revived. I mean it seems like a lost cause now since the war is coming to its close, but still. The thought remains.

Revived for what? Obito looks like he'll be defeated by Naruto very soon. There is no point to bringing back Rin, and I hope they don't. No more Edo Tensei, please! It is without a doubt my least favorite jutsu in Naruto. If Rin was revived and saw what became of Obito and the rest of the ninja world, I'm sure she'd try to kill herself again.

Lorde
26th October 2013, 8:42 PM
I suppose it's possible for Orochimaru to have Jiraiya's DNA, but that doesn't mean I want Kishi to bring Jiraiya back especially since the war is effectively over. All that's left is Madara and I doubt Jiraiya would be much help against him. I always found Jiraiya to be overrated anyway; his accomplishments weren't that impressive.

LightningMaster95
27th October 2013, 8:03 PM
i seriously doubt madara and obito are going to be the final villains kishimoto pretty much was promoting a final showdown between sasuke and naruto and both of them dieing at the end i dont want him to make it a fight about who becomes hokage and than no one dies

Lorde
27th October 2013, 9:26 PM
i seriously doubt madara and obito are going to be the final villains kishimoto pretty much was promoting a final showdown between sasuke and naruto and both of them dieing at the end i dont want him to make it a fight about who becomes hokage and than no one dies

I doubt Sasuke is the final villain; just because he'll fight Naruto doesn't mean that he's a threat to the world. They have to fight in order to settle who will be the next Hokage and given how this manga has become, I don't expect any deaths.

LightningMaster95
27th October 2013, 10:11 PM
I doubt Sasuke is the final villain; just because he'll fight Naruto doesn't mean that he's a threat to the world. They have to fight in order to settle who will be the next Hokage and given how this manga has become, I don't expect any deaths.

no one would be surprised if he turns evil again i know hes not a threat to the world but he's a threat to the village and only a couple of people can take on sasuke in the village(i didnt say beat) and kishi stated next time they fought they were both going to die
knowing the coward kishimoto has become he will probably avoid this

Lorde
27th October 2013, 10:43 PM
no one would be surprised if he turns evil again i know hes not a threat to the world but he's a threat to the village and only a couple of people can take on sasuke in the village(i didnt say beat) and kishi stated next time they fought they were both going to die
knowing the coward kishimoto has become he will probably avoid this

Except Sasuke seems to care about the village, or at least the direction it should take. He's not going to try and betray them imo; he seems convinced that he can lead the villagers and I think he'll only be a threat to Naruto since he wants to become Hokage too. Sasuke doesn't scream final villain to me.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
27th October 2013, 11:50 PM
Except Sasuke seems to care about the village, or at least the direction it should take. He's not going to try and betray them imo; he seems convinced that he can lead the villagers and I think he'll only be a threat to Naruto since he wants to become Hokage too. Sasuke doesn't scream final villain to me.

Agreed and that would be too obvious if you ask me. The only thing I see happening between Naruto and Sasuke is that final fight they're supposed to have at the end, and even that seems hazy at the moment.

Tezla93
28th October 2013, 1:11 AM
Clearly this Ninja War is coming to an end very soon. Which begs the question, do you think there will be another arc? I am not sure. It seems likely as there is still the possibility of Orochimaru turning against the leaf after the war and Naruto vs Sasuke still needs to be covered.

LightningMaster95
28th October 2013, 5:32 AM
Except Sasuke seems to care about the village, or at least the direction it should take. He's not going to try and betray them imo; he seems convinced that he can lead the villagers and I think he'll only be a threat to Naruto since he wants to become Hokage too. Sasuke doesn't scream final villain to me.
honestly this is the way i see it being set up right now since its going to mirror the hashirama and madara story
sasuke and naruto beat madara/obito the army and each kage praise naruto as the hero of the world(due to being the main character) and tsunade wants to make naruto hokage sasuke believes the village is still against the uchiha than he sees madara had a point and tries to avenge his clan by becoming hokage through force. sasuke kills a lot fodder shinobi injures the konoha 11 naruto tries to talk to sasuke he ignores him the fight begins. naruto and sasuke both die ending the cycle of hatred. 8 years later we see hinata with naruto jr and sakura with sasuke jr as friends

Platinum fan.
28th October 2013, 6:41 PM
honestly this is the way i see it being set up right now since its going to mirror the hashirama and madara story
sasuke and naruto beat madara/obito the army and each kage praise naruto as the hero of the world(due to being the main character) and tsunade wants to make naruto hokage sasuke believes the village is still against the uchiha than he sees madara had a point and tries to avenge his clan by becoming hokage through force. sasuke kills a lot fodder shinobi injures the konoha 11 naruto tries to talk to sasuke he ignores him the fight begins. naruto and sasuke both die ending the cycle of hatred. 8 years later we see hinata with naruto jr and sakura with sasuke jr as friends

When would Naruto jr and Sasuke jr happen? And does it have to be with Hinata and Sakura? Not trashing the idea, but I really hope Naruto was talking crap when he told Sasuke when they fight, they'll die together. That would be the lamest. I'm with Sasuke when he said "Either kill me or I'll kill you" I don't want to see them have this cheesy death together junk. Let them fight and let there be a winner and loser. At this point I'd be fine if Naruto gave Sasuke the Hokage title. Naruto's dream was sidelined years ago anyway. Sasuke doesn't have Naruto's charisma, or trust of the village. He can only get shallow woman and Orochimaru on his side so it would make for a interesting storyline. I just wonder if Madara can sway Sasuke to turn on the alliance?

Lorde
28th October 2013, 8:47 PM
I agree that Sasuke lacks the charisma to lead the village. He's definitely a powerful ninja, but the villagers wouldn't follow him because they don't trust him after all the stuff he did like abandon the village and side with Akatsuki. Naruto is an idiot sometimes but at least the people of Konoha trust him because he's always on their side.

Mr. Fuji
28th October 2013, 11:04 PM
Naruto will become Hokage, his skills are already at that level, they have been for a while now. The only thing separating Naruto and Sasuke is the trust of the villagers as stated above, as they are both arguably the two most powerful of their generation. Also Naruto's dream of becoming Hokage has hardly been sidelined, if you're referring to the fact that he isn't as wildly annoying with stating that as his dream as he was before he matured through his many experiences then that makes little to no sense. Also, why would Naruto kill Sasuke? If they fought (which they likely will as stated by Kishimoto) Naruto has been said to have surpassed Sasuke, even after Sasuke attained full Susan'o. That being said, it would likely end up with both of them dying, or neither of them dying, Naruto wouldn't ever kill Sasuke, and Sasuke probably couldn't kill Naruto at this stage, and at this point I don't even think he wants to. Either way, it will be interesting to see how that fight is set up because at this stage I really don't see it being hostile (which sort of defeats the whole purpose), I mean I would say it won't happen but if the author says it will happen, well i'm inclined to believe him.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
29th October 2013, 2:27 AM
If Naruto doesn't become the Hokage, that's going to be a slap in the face. There's been so much build up for that since episode 1 and if it goes all to waste, then I don't know what to say, but just deal.

lolipiece
29th October 2013, 11:31 AM
Talk no Jutsu is in full effect today.

He'll probably accept. Then everyone will forgive him despite the crap he's done.

insanejames
29th October 2013, 2:43 PM
Talk no Jutsu is in full effect today.

He'll probably accept. Then everyone will forgive him despite the crap he's done.

i hope not. Suicide/Seppuku would be prefable to that. What I hope is that he attack Naruto and Kakashi apears and ends him, which would probably lead to some dying words and a flashback (well this is Naruto)

LightningMaster95
29th October 2013, 4:43 PM
Naruto will become Hokage, his skills are already at that level, they have been for a while now. The only thing separating Naruto and Sasuke is the trust of the villagers as stated above, as they are both arguably the two most powerful of their generation. Also Naruto's dream of becoming Hokage has hardly been sidelined, if you're referring to the fact that he isn't as wildly annoying with stating that as his dream as he was before he matured through his many experiences then that makes little to no sense. Also, why would Naruto kill Sasuke? If they fought (which they likely will as stated by Kishimoto) Naruto has been said to have surpassed Sasuke, even after Sasuke attained full Susan'o. That being said, it would likely end up with both of them dying, or neither of them dying, Naruto wouldn't ever kill Sasuke, and Sasuke probably couldn't kill Naruto at this stage, and at this point I don't even think he wants to. Either way, it will be interesting to see how that fight is set up because at this stage I really don't see it being hostile (which sort of defeats the whole purpose), I mean I would say it won't happen but if the author says it will happen, well i'm inclined to believe him.
kishimoto has stated that naruto and sasuke are equals and since its not in personality/behavior it obviously means power kishimoto>everyone's opinion

@platinum fan the whole naruto/sasuke jr thing i meant it as a joke but i think it can happen during a time skip after the war and before tsunade picks the next hokage

chapter 653 used the most powerful jutsu in the world again talk no jutsu

Platinum fan.
29th October 2013, 5:36 PM
This latest issue focuses on Naruto and Obito during their talk no jutsu session. Overall that was boring but I admit I did enjoy the Obito and Rin flashbacks if nothing else. I liked Rin getting all angry and while she's bandaging Obito up her grip tightens without a single word on that part. It might be different translations but the one I read Rin said the word bad***, and just by saying that makes her a automatic bad***. One thing that did leave me questioned. When Naruto spoke earlier with Obito who was going by Madara then during the Gokage summit, he did not compare him to Nagato and said the two were not alike and that Obito/Madara did not want peace and Obito/Madara confirmed he was right. Now all of a sudden Obito's preaching the world peace card that Nagato/Pain use to do. So does that mean both Naruto and Obito were wrong and Obito wanted peace after all? That part confused me a little. Overall a average talk no jutsu chapter that tells me Obito is nearly finished. Now we gotta talk no jutsu Madara next.

Also remember this and it will be my saying on every Naruto post from now on, or at least I get bored of it. RIN IS ALWAYS WATCHING YOU!

Emperor Empoleon
29th October 2013, 5:55 PM
I liked this chapter, particularly Naruto's dialogue/counter argumentation. This is a-lot better than when he changed Nagato by reading him a book :S

But how exactly does Naruto expect one such as Obito "compensate for what he's done"? lol

Lorde
29th October 2013, 6:24 PM
I knew it. Obito's being subjected to the cruelest jutsu imaginable: Talk no Jutsu. I feel bad for him; his memories of Rin were sad since she never survived to watch over him like she promised. But at least they interacted often in the past which makes Obito's obsession with her a bit more realistic. Too bad that the chapter was just full of talking.

LightningMaster95
29th October 2013, 7:49 PM
Now all of a sudden Obito's preaching the world peace card that Nagato/Pain use to do. So does that mean both Naruto and Obito were wrong and Obito wanted peace after all? That part confused me a little. Overall a average talk no jutsu chapter that tells me Obito is nearly finished. Now we gotta talk no jutsu Madara next.

Also remember this and it will be my saying on every Naruto post from now on, or at least I get bored of it. RIN IS ALWAYS WATCHING YOU!

to be fair obito wanted peace and acted like naruto before madara made him evil i think thats the obito we are seeing right now the nice one, i see talk no jutsu lasting finishing around half way in next weeks chapter than we madara stabbing obito

remember RIN is watching you :p

Mr. Fuji
29th October 2013, 9:05 PM
Kishimoto stated before that they were equals, whereas many in story characters such as zetsu, and Itachi have stated Naruto has surpassed Sasuke. Yes the difference is not by much, but Sasuke has even made comments heavily implying he feels somewhat threatened and surprised at Naruto's vast progression. Regardless it's a wait and see matter, no one other than the author truly knows how/when/if they will fight.

LightningMaster95
29th October 2013, 11:00 PM
Kishimoto stated before that they were equals, whereas many in story characters such as zetsu, and Itachi have stated Naruto has surpassed Sasuke. Yes the difference is not by much, but Sasuke has even made comments heavily implying he feels somewhat threatened and surprised at Naruto's vast progression. Regardless it's a wait and see matter, no one other than the author truly knows how/when/if they will fight.

zetsu said probably naruto is stronger
itachi i dont remember him saying that so im not sure

Lorde
29th October 2013, 11:10 PM
Zetsu's comment about Naruto being stronger than Sasuke is irrelevant now anyway since both Naruto and Sasuke have gotten powers up since the comment was made. I really think Naruto is stronger at this point; even Sasuke seemed to sense it. Sasuke will have to use all his cunning just to stand on par with Naruto when they fight (or maybe he'll just spam his Sharingan as usual).

Platinum fan.
29th October 2013, 11:28 PM
I'd say they are about evenly matched. At first I thought Sasuke was actually stronger because of Susanoo, but now that Naruto has Kyuubi on his side as a willing partner they can probably counter it now, so I'd say it's mostly a even fight. I'm still looking forward to Sasuke and Naruto's fight. I still think it needs to happen and be the final battle of the series assuming a part 3 doesn't happen.

RIN IS ALWAYS WATCHING YOU!

Shneak
30th October 2013, 1:26 AM
The JnJ is firing on all cylinders. Obito is looking all frown-y. Naruto's even using Obito's monologues against him.

I hate how Naruto is telling Obito to surrender and accept his punishment, yet Sasuke is apparently fine.

LightningMaster95
30th October 2013, 1:40 AM
I hate how Naruto is telling Obito to surrender and accept his punishment, yet Sasuke is apparently fine.
thats kishi logic were every villian can become a good guy before dying (i believe madara or sasuke will kill him most likely madara) since sasuke has only killed fodder shinobi

Lorde
30th October 2013, 2:57 AM
I hate how Naruto is telling Obito to surrender and accept his punishment, yet Sasuke is apparently fine.

I know, it's so ironic. I hope the others call him out on it later on; not everyone trusts Sasuke and I'm sure many of the villagers will want him to be punished for everything he's done. He'll never be able to redeem himself imo unless he sacrifices himself for the village which I doubt he'll do. Sasuke is such a loose end at this point. I just can't see how Kishi will wrap up his character.

LightningMaster95
30th October 2013, 4:01 AM
I know, it's so ironic. I hope the others call him out on it later on; not everyone trusts Sasuke and I'm sure many of the villagers will want him to be punished for everything he's done. He'll never be able to redeem himself imo unless he sacrifices himself for the village which I doubt he'll do. Sasuke is such a loose end at this point. I just can't see how Kishi will wrap up his character.
well tsunade was able to keep everyone from killing sasuke and if naruto becomes hokage he will probably convince everyone to as well

TsukiMirage
30th October 2013, 5:23 AM
Naruto's speech to Obito was lame, but I have to say I love how mature Naruto appeared in this chapter. This is the Naruto I've been wanting. Shame it's being wasted on the likes of Obito. And honestly, even if Obito was an orphan, he was hardly alone when there was an entire clan to show him love. Alright chapter.


honestly this is the way i see it being set up right now since its going to mirror the hashirama and madara story
sasuke and naruto beat madara/obito the army and each kage praise naruto as the hero of the world(due to being the main character) and tsunade wants to make naruto hokage sasuke believes the village is still against the uchiha than he sees madara had a point and tries to avenge his clan by becoming hokage through force. sasuke kills a lot fodder shinobi injures the konoha 11 naruto tries to talk to sasuke he ignores him the fight begins. naruto and sasuke both die ending the cycle of hatred. 8 years later we see hinata with naruto jr and sakura with sasuke jr as friends If Kishi continues with the theme he's been building about Naruto succeeding where others failed, then odds would be that Naruto would willing give up the title to Sasuke, "succeeding" where Hashirama failed. That is, if the entire ninja system isn't gonna be undone after this war and therefore eliminating the position.


If Naruto doesn't become the Hokage, that's going to be a slap in the face. There's been so much build up for that since episode 1 and if it goes all to waste, then I don't know what to say, but just deal. That was true during Part One, but Part Two has been building up the idea that the ninja system is flawed and needs to be eliminated. Naruto was told this by both Jiraiya and Minato. So I don't think it would be out of the question that Naruto won't get the position, and as pointed out above, if the Hokage position is still kept after this war, then Naruto would likely give it up to Sasuke to finally undo and fix the original failure. Or possibly Naruto will become the Hokage. Honestly, with Kishi's writing, anything could happen.

Lorde
30th October 2013, 8:08 PM
well tsunade was able to keep everyone from killing sasuke and if naruto becomes hokage he will probably convince everyone to as well

She made sure nobody from the village would kill him, but that doesn't mean that the villagers liked Sasuke. It's the same thing now; even if Naruto becomes Hokage and pardons Sasuke, it won't stop some people from thinking ill of him. Sasuke can't change the past so he can't really redeem himself for all his crimes no matter how much talk no jutsu Naruto uses.

Joltik-Kid
30th October 2013, 8:22 PM
More or less... Naruto's talking is Tsukuyomi

Platinum fan.
30th October 2013, 10:33 PM
She made sure nobody from the village would kill him, but that doesn't mean that the villagers liked Sasuke. It's the same thing now; even if Naruto becomes Hokage and pardons Sasuke, it won't stop some people from thinking ill of him. Sasuke can't change the past so he can't really redeem himself for all his crimes no matter how much talk no jutsu Naruto uses.

Sasuke will get pardoned. No matter what kind of BS he pulled. The Gokage summit alone should have had Sasuke executed on sight for that, but I'm sure Naruto will give anyone who tries to kill Sasuke a speech on hatred, cycle, peace and they'll melt just like the army melted in emotions when Gaara gave that speech to put aside personal difference and fight together. Letting Sasuke roam free like Konoha did was a lousy Hokage leader move. Anyone who Sasuke killed is on their hands, and he did kill a few along the way. Fodder characters, but tell that to their families. Yet another reason Sasuke shouldn't be Hokage. Let alone the fact that his motives go by his emotions and they can be swayed by so many people. Orochimaru, Itachi, Obito, Hashirama and the Hokages. Yeah I really want a leader like that.

RIN IS ALWAYS WATCHING YOU!

-Raiga-
31st October 2013, 1:03 AM
Now THAT is how a chapter is done. Tons of advancement, and a great meeting of the minds between the two main characters at the moment.

On a side-note I'd be happy if I never have to read "Talk-no-Jutsu" ever again. Firstly it wasn't funny the first time, much less the 1736th time. Secondly I think it's perfectly fine if a manga can end a fight in multiple ways than a cut and dry "win the fight". It's true Naruto has evolved into a primarily fighting manga, but it still has a story to advance and this is one way of doing it quickly, which Kishi seems intent on doing.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
31st October 2013, 1:28 AM
She made sure nobody from the village would kill him, but that doesn't mean that the villagers liked Sasuke. It's the same thing now; even if Naruto becomes Hokage and pardons Sasuke, it won't stop some people from thinking ill of him. Sasuke can't change the past so he can't really redeem himself for all his crimes no matter how much talk no jutsu Naruto uses.

But, I think they might over it once this war is over with. "Oh you helped saved us all from dying, we now like you". I mean, it'll take awhile, but I doubt they'd hate him until the show ends. LOL

LightningMaster95
31st October 2013, 3:05 AM
Sasuke will get pardoned. No matter what kind of BS he pulled. The Gokage summit alone should have had Sasuke executed on sight for that, but I'm sure Naruto will give anyone who tries to kill Sasuke a speech on hatred, cycle, peace and they'll melt just like the army melted in emotions when Gaara gave that speech to put aside personal difference and fight together. Letting Sasuke roam free like Konoha did was a lousy Hokage leader move. Anyone who Sasuke killed is on their hands, and he did kill a few along the way. Fodder characters, but tell that to their families. Yet another reason Sasuke shouldn't be Hokage. Let alone the fact that his motives go by his emotions and they can be swayed by so many people. Orochimaru, Itachi, Obito, Hashirama and the Hokages. Yeah I really want a leader like that.

RIN IS ALWAYS WATCHING YOU!
well i think the villagers can go either way into forgiving him or not
bad
betrayed konoha
attacked the 5 kages
killed the 6 hokage

good
"killed" orochimaru
"killed" itachi
"killed" deidara
beat obito and later on madara
has the previous hokages and naruto backing him up

Emperor Empoleon
31st October 2013, 3:50 AM
Now THAT is how a chapter is done. Tons of advancement, and a great meeting of the minds between the two main characters at the moment.

On a side-note I'd be happy if I never have to read "Talk-no-Jutsu" ever again. Firstly it wasn't funny the first time, much less the 1736th time. Secondly I think it's perfectly fine if a manga can end a fight in multiple ways than a cut and dry "win the fight". It's true Naruto has evolved into a primarily fighting manga, but it still has a story to advance and this is one way of doing it quickly, which Kishi seems intent on doing.

Definitely agree. I find it part of the story's charm tbh.

Lorde
31st October 2013, 4:03 AM
good
"killed" orochimaru
"killed" itachi
"killed" deidara
beat obito and later on madara
has the previous hokages and naruto backing him up

Well Sasuke failed to actually "kill" Orochimaru; at best he overpowered him, but Orochimaru isn't really a threat anymore so I doubt that really counts as a good deed anyway. Itachi was on the village's side and he spied for them so his death wasn't exactly a good thing either. And Deidara wasn't an enemy of the village; he was just a criminal in general and Konoha didn't seem to care about him either way. The villagers will have to be convinced of Sasuke's redemption by Naruto, which would be such a cliche ending to this manga but whatever. I didn't expect anything groundbreaking in the first place.

LightningMaster95
31st October 2013, 5:10 AM
Well Sasuke failed to actually "kill" Orochimaru; at best he overpowered him, but Orochimaru isn't really a threat anymore so I doubt that really counts as a good deed anyway. Itachi was on the village's side and he spied for them so his death wasn't exactly a good thing either. And Deidara wasn't an enemy of the village; he was just a criminal in general and Konoha didn't seem to care about him either way. The villagers will have to be convinced of Sasuke's redemption by Naruto, which would be such a cliche ending to this manga but whatever. I didn't expect anything groundbreaking in the first place.
i was going by the villagers point of view of things sasuke has done
orochimaru killed the 3rd according to them (even though technically the 3rd killed himself) and villagers respected the hokage so thats +1 for sasuke killing oro
itachi according to them was a traitor who killed his clan and joined akatsuki to destroy the leaf +1 for sasuke (he wouldnt think of it like that)
diedara was part of akatuki who wanted the leaf's destruction so thats bad +1 for sasuke
with 5 hokages having confidence in sasuke(not sure if tsunade and tobirama trust him) and the future hokage/village hero(naruto) willing to defend him they will most likely forgive him.
yes i know sasuke didnt actually kill them but in the naruto world they gave him the credit for doing it

Lorde
31st October 2013, 7:50 PM
i was going by the villagers point of view of things sasuke has done
orochimaru killed the 3rd according to them (even though technically the 3rd killed himself) and villagers respected the hokage so thats +1 for sasuke killing oro
itachi according to them was a traitor who killed his clan and joined akatsuki to destroy the leaf +1 for sasuke (he wouldnt think of it like that)
diedara was part of akatuki who wanted the leaf's destruction so thats bad +1 for sasuke
with 5 hokages having confidence in sasuke(not sure if tsunade and tobirama trust him) and the future hokage/village hero(naruto) willing to defend him they will most likely forgive him.
yes i know sasuke didnt actually kill them but in the naruto world they gave him the credit for doing it

Like I said, Orochimaru is no longer a big threat so the villagers probably won't care about Sasuke "killing" him. Even the third Hokage's death might not affect the villagers if Hiruzen forgives Orochimaru before the Edo Tensei jutsu ends. Anyway, they'd probably still dislike Sasuke since he went with Orochimaru in the first place. As for Itachi; I'm sure that part will be clarified to the villagers before the manga ends and they'll treat Itachi as a hero, so Sasuke "killing" him probably won't count for much. And I don't recall Deidara ever showing any hatred for Konoha; he just worked for Akatsuki and helped in their overall goal. I think Sasuke's bad deeds outweigh his good deeds.

Platinum fan.
2nd November 2013, 12:29 AM
The thing about Sasuke's deeds, do the bad outweigh the good? I agree that Sasuke getting rid of Deidara does nothing for Konoha. Deidara never attacked the village and was more Gaara's village enemy. Sasuke did get rid of Orochimaru for a time, but remember he brought him back as well. So if Orochimaru decides to try and destroy Konoha one last time, it's Sasuke's fault. Sasuke at best will be tolerated but I can't see Konoha ever fully trusting him 100% nor should they. Sasuke's a lousy leader, who will kill his own teammates for revenge against those he thinks wronged him and his family. I would not want someone like Sasuke as my leader. He's easy to manipulate as well. Say what you want about Naruto, but at least he can't be manipulated.

Locormus
2nd November 2013, 1:29 AM
i was going by the villagers point of view of things sasuke has done
orochimaru killed the 3rd according to them (even though technically the 3rd killed himself) and villagers respected the hokage so thats +1 for sasuke killing oro
itachi according to them was a traitor who killed his clan and joined akatsuki to destroy the leaf +1 for sasuke (he wouldnt think of it like that)
diedara was part of akatuki who wanted the leaf's destruction so thats bad +1 for sasuke
with 5 hokages having confidence in sasuke(not sure if tsunade and tobirama trust him) and the future hokage/village hero(naruto) willing to defend him they will most likely forgive him.
yes i know sasuke didnt actually kill them but in the naruto world they gave him the credit for doing it

1. Killed Danzou, a representative of Konoha: -1
2. Cost the Raikage an important appendage: -2 (foreign politics are always touchy)
3. Fought Bee and took his chakra to Akatsuki, in part giving them an important piece to the Juubi Puzzle, without they couldn't have started: -2

You also have to take in account of Sasuke joining Akatsuki after defeating Deidara. That basically defeats the point of the +1.

TsukiMirage
2nd November 2013, 4:00 AM
The Danzo thing is moot after his actions at the summit and being made the villain of Konoha. Him attacking Kirabi seems like it was balanced against Kumo's action with the Hyuuga clan. And Sasuke's actions at the summit were written off as manipulation by Tobi.

I find it surprising that everyone has forgotten his biggest crime, including characters inworld... the cold-blooded murder of nearly a dozen innocent samurai.

Platinum fan.
2nd November 2013, 4:18 PM
I count everything done at the Gokage summit as one big thing, including the samurai deaths. Sasuke killing Danzo will be overlooked but Danzo was still a important figure of Konoha. Just because Danzo acting like a real life ninja and did everything to ensure Konoha would have a future doesn't make him down right evil to the core. He's not innocent either and he has lots of blood on his hands. Danzo was basically a harsh **** ninja. Again I think Sasuke will be tolerated but not loved, making him a lousy Hokage over Naruto. Naruto connect with people and gains trust and friendships easily, while Sasuke is the polar opposite and only cares about the memory of his family and his own agendas. Why on earth would Sasuke make a good Hokage?

TsukiMirage
2nd November 2013, 4:46 PM
No, Danzo's evil because that's the perception that Kishi threw on him, faulting him for a bunch of stuff and making it clear he was nothing but power-hungry.

Aside from the fact that Sasuke has been shown the ability to connect and gain friendships pretty easily (Team Taka), that's moot for the position of Hokage. A Hokage doesn't have to be completely beloved, only respected, and Sasuke's power would definitely ensure that. Not to mention that Sasuke's smarter, and far less likely to make a foolish error like Naruto. We saw how such a comparison would play out with Hashirama and Tobirama, and it was pretty much implied that it was the colder Tobirama who had had the bigger impact then the more beloved Hashirama. But more importantly, Sasuke would be able to do what an Hokage would actually need to do and send people to their possible deaths. After all that has been shown during this arc, can you really see Naruto willingly sending people out on missions where they could die? Naruto has shown an unwillingness to allow others to risk themselves without his protection, which sets a dangerous precedence if he continually empowers Konoha ninjas.

J Ken
2nd November 2013, 5:10 PM
Tbh Sasuke's actually more likely to make a foolish error then Naruto is. I mean Naruto usually makes rash decisions but he never makes the type of decisions that would cost everyone around him and only benefit himself. Besides Sasuke has been way more reckless then Naruto for a majority of Part II.

Platinum fan.
2nd November 2013, 5:50 PM
No, Danzo's evil because that's the perception that Kishi threw on him, faulting him for a bunch of stuff and making it clear he was nothing but power-hungry.

Aside from the fact that Sasuke has been shown the ability to connect and gain friendships pretty easily (Team Taka), that's moot for the position of Hokage. A Hokage doesn't have to be completely beloved, only respected, and Sasuke's power would definitely ensure that. Not to mention that Sasuke's smarter, and far less likely to make a foolish error like Naruto. We saw how such a comparison would play out with Hashirama and Tobirama, and it was pretty much implied that it was the colder Tobirama who had had the bigger impact then the more beloved Hashirama. But more importantly, Sasuke would be able to do what an Hokage would actually need to do and send people to their possible deaths. After all that has been shown during this arc, can you really see Naruto willingly sending people out on missions where they could die? Naruto has shown an unwillingness to allow others to risk themselves without his protection, which sets a dangerous precedence if he continually empowers Konoha ninjas.

Did you really just use Taka as a example? Karin is a shallow Sasuke groupie, and they are the only people who vote for Sasuke because he's hot. Suigetsu followed Sasuke to go blade hunting and because he was impressed with him for defeating Orochimaru and Zabuza, even though he didn't defeat Zabuza, why people from Mist give Sasuke credit for defeating Zabuza, I'll never know. Jugo follows Sasuke because he believes he's Kimimaro's next life or something. They aren't really friends, Sasuke left Jugo and Suigetsu to die at the Gokage summit and dealt a killing blow to Karin just so he could kill Danzo. If Sakura hadn't arrived Karin would be dead right now, not that that's a bad thing. I would not call these guys friends. Associates is more like it.

Who are Konoha likely to side with? Naruto the hero of the village who defeated Pain and who continues to bail Konoha out of mess after mess, or Sasuke. The traitor who left Konoha, joined forces with Orochimaru, then later joined the Akatsuki and vowed to kill everyone in the village and is only on their side now because Itachi and the past Hokages talked him out of it. Naruto might be flawed as a leader and I don't think he's all that qualified to be Hokage yet but he's a way better choice then Sasuke. Sasuke's a tool that any manipulative villain can use. All it would take is for someone to manipulate the history of the Uchiha's to sway Sasuke to their side. If Sasuke is made Hokage over Naruto then Konoha deserves to fall.

LightningMaster95
2nd November 2013, 7:25 PM
No, Danzo's evil because that's the perception that Kishi threw on him, faulting him for a bunch of stuff and making it clear he was nothing but power-hungry.

Aside from the fact that Sasuke has been shown the ability to connect and gain friendships pretty easily (Team Taka), that's moot for the position of Hokage. A Hokage doesn't have to be completely beloved, only respected, and Sasuke's power would definitely ensure that. Not to mention that Sasuke's smarter, and far less likely to make a foolish error like Naruto. We saw how such a comparison would play out with Hashirama and Tobirama, and it was pretty much implied that it was the colder Tobirama who had had the bigger impact then the more beloved Hashirama. But more importantly, Sasuke would be able to do what an Hokage would actually need to do and send people to their possible deaths. After all that has been shown during this arc, can you really see Naruto willingly sending people out on missions where they could die? Naruto has shown an unwillingness to allow others to risk themselves without his protection, which sets a dangerous precedence if he continually empowers Konoha ninjas.
danzo was not evil he was like itachi he did bad things in order to protect the village both of them were real true ninjas being casted in a villian like role for the better good of konoha in reality the 3rd hokage was the evil person

sasuke is smart and powerful enough to become hokage but he not trusted by the jonin imo while naruto is poweful and trusted he is not smart enough to become hokage(hes smart in fights but not in general)

@j ken he has been reckless because theres more stuff happening to him than naruto and so he wasnt thinking clearly for most of part II

TsukiMirage
2nd November 2013, 7:54 PM
Tbh Sasuke's actually more likely to make a foolish error then Naruto is. I mean Naruto usually makes rash decisions but he never makes the type of decisions that would cost everyone around him and only benefit himself. Besides Sasuke has been way more reckless then Naruto for a majority of Part II. Not really. The only reckless decision Sasuke has made was underestimating Kirabi.

And Naruto is all about making decisions that would only benefit him. Like referring to Sasuke as a Konoha ninja after his attack against Kumo despite such a thing implying that Konoha "supported" the attack, allowing Nagato and Konan to leave without any punishment despite the massive number of deaths that he had no possible way of knowing would be undone, and more important, choosing to only oppose an evil Sasuke IF he attacked Konoha, despite it being made clear he had no trouble killing those from other villages. Even in the current arc, there has been several times.


Did you really just use Taka as a example? Karin is a shallow Sasuke groupie, and they are the only people who vote for Sasuke because he's hot. Suigetsu followed Sasuke to go blade hunting and because he was impressed with him for defeating Orochimaru and Zabuza, even though he didn't defeat Zabuza, why people from Mist give Sasuke credit for defeating Zabuza, I'll never know. Jugo follows Sasuke because he believes he's Kimimaro's next life or something. They aren't really friends, Sasuke left Jugo and Suigetsu to die at the Gokage summit and dealt a killing blow to Karin just so he could kill Danzo. If Sakura hadn't arrived Karin would be dead right now, not that that's a bad thing. I would not call these guys friends. Associates is more like it. Taka is actually a pretty good example. Sasuke got a group of people who cared nothing for each other, and likely would have willingly killed each other, not only to work together but even risk their lives for the others. And on top of that, despite openly betraying them, they still willingly follow him without question. He also roped Orochimaru into serving him, despite Orochimaru being... well Orochimaru.


Who are Konoha likely to side with? Naruto the hero of the village who defeated Pain and who continues to bail Konoha out of mess after mess, or Sasuke. The traitor who left Konoha, joined forces with Orochimaru, then later joined the Akatsuki and vowed to kill everyone in the village and is only on their side now because Itachi and the past Hokages talked him out of it. Naruto might be flawed as a leader and I don't think he's all that qualified to be Hokage yet but he's a way better choice then Sasuke. Sasuke's a tool that any manipulative villain can use. All it would take is for someone to manipulate the history of the Uchiha's to sway Sasuke to their side. If Sasuke is made Hokage over Naruto then Konoha deserves to fall. That really doesn't matter. The choice of Hokage isn't picked by the people, it's picked by a select group. The only democratic factor is whether the Jounin like them. Besides, from an in-story pov, the only blackspot that Sasuke has in the eyes of the village is joining Akatsuki. He wasn't faulted for leaving the village, and once the truth of the Uchiha Massacre comes out that'll be moot. No one aside from Team Seven knows of his previous intentions, and it's mainly due to him that the entire Alliance was saved. He was the one who brought Orochimaru back and had him revive the Hokages, whom without the war would have been lost. That's at the very least is comparable to defeating Pain, if not much greater. And the only person to manipulate Sasuke was Itachi. Sasuke is far from someone who can be easily manipulated, who's more then likely would be the one manipulating those who try, as shown with Orochimaru and Obito. The whole problem with the argument for Naruto is that we already seen what comes of such a leader via Hashirama, who has been acknowledged as causing the current problems. We were even shown that despite all his power, he would have been walked over by the other Kages had it not been for Tobirama. Sasuke is more comparable to Tobirama, who we know was a problem solver. Sarutobi's inability to bring himself to stop Orochimaru and Danzo lead to numerous problems too. Being kind is all well and good, but a leader can't just be kind and nice all the time, especially when said leader will have to be sending people to their possible deaths.

And for the record, I think Shikamaru would have made the best choice over both of them. But since he's now apparently out of the running...


danzo was not evil he was like itachi he did bad things in order to protect the village both of them were real true ninjas being casted in a villian like role for the better good of konoha in reality the 3rd hokage was the evil person Danzo and Itachi are completely different. Itachi sacrificed nearly everything to protect Sasuke and the village, whereas Danzo used others for his own power grab. He purposely riled up the Uchiha clan and then made it so there was no other choice but their elimination, despite there being other ways to prevent the coup. He partnered up with Orochimaru to gain more power, and did nothing to try and stop Orochimaru's actions. Itachi at the very least kept Obito from touching Konoha upon joining forces. And finally, Danzo was willing to let the entire village be wiped out when Pain attacked.


sasuke is smart and powerful enough to become hokage but he not trusted by the jonin imo while naruto is poweful and trusted he is not smart enough to become hokage(hes smart in fights but not in general) I would say how they feel about him is up in the air. He had ninjas cheering for him during the war, and he has the backing of the former Hokages.

LightningMaster95
2nd November 2013, 8:21 PM
Danzo and Itachi are completely different. Itachi sacrificed nearly everything to protect Sasuke and the village, whereas Danzo used others for his own power grab. He purposely riled up the Uchiha clan and then made it so there was no other choice but their elimination, despite there being other ways to prevent the coup. He partnered up with Orochimaru to gain more power, and did nothing to try and stop Orochimaru's actions. Itachi at the very least kept Obito from touching Konoha upon joining forces. And finally, Danzo was willing to let the entire village be wiped out when Pain attacked.
they both did bad things in order to protect the village
both considered a traitor
were screwed over by the 3rd hokage
also even if danzo gained power it wouldve been for the greater good for the village its not like he wouldve killed everyone in the village he would just enforce stricter rules and focus on power so that konoha wont be messed with,exactly how did he rile up the uchiha clan because everyone thought it was someone with a sharingan since it can control the nine tails so the obvious culprit would be the uchiha clan, the massacre was a back up plan if the 3rd hokage couldnt talk them out of the revolution. we dont know anything about oro and danzo's past relationship all we know is that oro gave him hashirama's dna and implanted 11 sharingans. he wasnt going to let it be destroyed he was just waiting for something to happen so he can become hokage than he wouldve acted if naruto didnt come back (my theory)

Lorde
2nd November 2013, 8:22 PM
Tbh Sasuke's actually more likely to make a foolish error then Naruto is. I mean Naruto usually makes rash decisions but he never makes the type of decisions that would cost everyone around him and only benefit himself. Besides Sasuke has been way more reckless then Naruto for a majority of Part II.

I suppose. Sasuke's always been selfish after all; he always does things that benefit his own ego and that's why I can't stand the idea of him being the Hokage. The fact that he believes he's a good candidate is laughable to me. Like, we're supposed to believe that he has everyone's best interests at heart? Yeah right.

J Ken
2nd November 2013, 9:28 PM
I suppose. Sasuke's always been selfish after all; he always does things that benefit his own ego and that's why I can't stand the idea of him being the Hokage. The fact that he believes he's a good candidate is laughable to me. Like, we're supposed to believe that he has everyone's best interests at heart? Yeah right.

The sad part being that Sasuke actually would have a chance at being Hokage because to be blunt a majority of the Leaf are a bunch of ignorant dimwits and are easily swayed by events that occur despite anything that lead into the event. So they could easily love Sasuke by the end of the war despite his crimes.



@j ken he has been reckless because theres more stuff happening to him than naruto and so he wasnt thinking clearly for most of part II

Tbh that's not really a valid excuse considering Naruto has also been suffering just as much as Sasuke throughout Part II but didn't let that turn him into a corrupt power hungry criminal.


Not really. The only reckless decision Sasuke has made was underestimating Kirabi.

And Naruto is all about making decisions that would only benefit him. Like referring to Sasuke as a Konoha ninja after his attack against Kumo despite such a thing implying that Konoha "supported" the attack, allowing Nagato and Konan to leave without any punishment despite the massive number of deaths that he had no possible way of knowing would be undone, and more important, choosing to only oppose an evil Sasuke IF he attacked Konoha, despite it being made clear he had no trouble killing those from other villages. Even in the current arc, there has been several times.

Sasuke has actually been pretty reckless quite frequently actually. Underestimating Deidara, charging into the 5 Kage Summit, taking on Team 7 while being near blind, his battles with Kabuto and the Ten-Tails all those things just give a example to how reckless Sasuke could be.

Naruto's actions are selfish to a degree no denying it but not to the point where he's willing to let an entire nation of people get exterminated just because they bad mouthed his family.

LightningMaster95
2nd November 2013, 10:23 PM
Tbh that's not really a valid excuse considering Naruto has also been suffering just as much as Sasuke throughout Part II but didn't let that turn him into a corrupt power hungry criminal.


imo i believe sasuke has suffered more than naruto because the only the only major things that affected naruto other than sasuke's actions was gaara when he died(got over it when he was revived) and jiraiya

sasuke he had to deal with
itachi and his death/background story-----------(itachi and jiraiya affected naruto and sasuke the same way when they died)
orochimaru
obito
history behind his clan
konoha's evil past

Platinum fan.
2nd November 2013, 11:32 PM
Not really. The only reckless decision Sasuke has made was underestimating Kirabi.

And Naruto is all about making decisions that would only benefit him. Like referring to Sasuke as a Konoha ninja after his attack against Kumo despite such a thing implying that Konoha "supported" the attack, allowing Nagato and Konan to leave without any punishment despite the massive number of deaths that he had no possible way of knowing would be undone, and more important, choosing to only oppose an evil Sasuke IF he attacked Konoha, despite it being made clear he had no trouble killing those from other villages. Even in the current arc, there has been several times.

Taka is actually a pretty good example. Sasuke got a group of people who cared nothing for each other, and likely would have willingly killed each other, not only to work together but even risk their lives for the others. And on top of that, despite openly betraying them, they still willingly follow him without question. He also roped Orochimaru into serving him, despite Orochimaru being... well Orochimaru.

That really doesn't matter. The choice of Hokage isn't picked by the people, it's picked by a select group. The only democratic factor is whether the Jounin like them. Besides, from an in-story pov, the only blackspot that Sasuke has in the eyes of the village is joining Akatsuki. He wasn't faulted for leaving the village, and once the truth of the Uchiha Massacre comes out that'll be moot. No one aside from Team Seven knows of his previous intentions, and it's mainly due to him that the entire Alliance was saved. He was the one who brought Orochimaru back and had him revive the Hokages, whom without the war would have been lost. That's at the very least is comparable to defeating Pain, if not much greater. And the only person to manipulate Sasuke was Itachi. Sasuke is far from someone who can be easily manipulated, who's more then likely would be the one manipulating those who try, as shown with Orochimaru and Obito. The whole problem with the argument for Naruto is that we already seen what comes of such a leader via Hashirama, who has been acknowledged as causing the current problems. We were even shown that despite all his power, he would have been walked over by the other Kages had it not been for Tobirama. Sasuke is more comparable to Tobirama, who we know was a problem solver. Sarutobi's inability to bring himself to stop Orochimaru and Danzo lead to numerous problems too. Being kind is all well and good, but a leader can't just be kind and nice all the time, especially when said leader will have to be sending people to their possible deaths.

And for the record, I think Shikamaru would have made the best choice over both of them. But since he's now apparently out of the running...

Danzo and Itachi are completely different. Itachi sacrificed nearly everything to protect Sasuke and the village, whereas Danzo used others for his own power grab. He purposely riled up the Uchiha clan and then made it so there was no other choice but their elimination, despite there being other ways to prevent the coup. He partnered up with Orochimaru to gain more power, and did nothing to try and stop Orochimaru's actions. Itachi at the very least kept Obito from touching Konoha upon joining forces. And finally, Danzo was willing to let the entire village be wiped out when Pain attacked.

I would say how they feel about him is up in the air. He had ninjas cheering for him during the war, and he has the backing of the former Hokages.

All three members of Taka are poorly written characters with nothing else to do but to follow Sasuke. Karin is a joke now and any story they could have made for her is gone. Suigetsu's quest for those sowrdsman blades went nowhere and Jugo was always a sheep. They hardly qualify as people Sasuke's inspired.

As for the main stuff, I don't think either Naruto or Sasuke would make good Hokages, but I still think Naruto would make a better choice over Sasuke. True you don't have to be a kind person to be a leader, but Sasuke is downright unlikable. Only shallow woman and Orochimaru seem to love this guy. He only cares about his own agendas, he's nasty to anyone who actually tries to befriend him, and he's always being used for someone else's cause be it Orochimaru, Tobi/Obito, or Itachi. Itachi was not the only one to manipulate Sasuke. Orochimaru did it in part 1. He just did it slower and used the cursed mark to aide in it. Tobi always saw Sasuke as a tool, a necessary one but a tool nonetheless, it was he the tossed Sasuke and Taka at the Gokages. Sasuke being Hokage won't change anything. He'll never have 100% trust of the village and again someone can just manipulate the Uchiha history and totally mind **** Sasuke into madness. Shikamaru would have been the best choice but it's looking like Naruto will be Hokage and end the entire ninja system itself. It will be the day ninjas lost their jobs.

J Ken
3rd November 2013, 12:07 AM
imo i believe sasuke has suffered more than naruto because the only the only major things that affected naruto other than sasuke's actions was gaara when he died(got over it when he was revived) and jiraiya

sasuke he had to deal with
itachi and his death/background story-----------(itachi and jiraiya affected naruto and sasuke the same way when they died)
orochimaru
obito
history behind his clan
konoha's evil past

Those aren't really the only things Naruto suffered from I mean aside from Gaara and Jiraiya there were the events with Pain, meeting his parents and learning the truth of his origins, the emotional suffering he went through because of Sasuke and Sasuke's crimes, the death of his comrades and quite a few other things.

In all honesty they are about on equal terms in suffering . But the difference being that Sasuke continued to act like an ignorant child despite learning the errors of his ancestors and instead of trying to redeem their mistakes he just repeated them while Naruto is at least trying to use his own shortcomings as motivation to do some good.

LightningMaster95
3rd November 2013, 12:14 AM
As for the main stuff, I don't think either Naruto or Sasuke would make good Hokages, but I still think Naruto would make a better choice over Sasuke. True you don't have to be a kind person to be a leader, but Sasuke is downright unlikable. Only shallow woman and Orochimaru seem to love this guy. He only cares about his own agendas, he's nasty to anyone who actually tries to befriend him, and he's always being used for someone else's cause be it Orochimaru, Tobi/Obito, or Itachi. Itachi was not the only one to manipulate Sasuke. Orochimaru did it in part 1. He just did it slower and used the cursed mark to aide in it. Tobi always saw Sasuke as a tool, a necessary one but a tool nonetheless, it was he the tossed Sasuke and Taka at the Gokages. Sasuke being Hokage won't change anything. He'll never have 100% trust of the village and again someone can just manipulate the Uchiha history and totally mind **** Sasuke into madness. Shikamaru would have been the best choice but it's looking like Naruto will be Hokage and end the entire ninja system itself. It will be the day ninjas lost their jobs.
honestly if itachi orochimaru and obito didnt corrupt him he couldve became a good hokage before they changed him he was very likeable imo but it go down like that
naruto is a ninja that belongs on the battlefield like kakashi not behind a desk giving orders
my choices for hokage since the beginning have been (yes i know what has happened to them so no point of telling me)
jiraiya
kakashi
neji
shikamaru
naruto was in that list,but than something changed inside my brain where i dont like the main characters/heros as much as the other characters in the series

LightningMaster95
3rd November 2013, 12:20 AM
Those aren't really the only things Naruto suffered from I mean aside from Gaara and Jiraiya there were the events with Pain, meeting his parents and learning the truth of his origins, the emotional suffering he went through because of Sasuke and Sasuke's crimes, the death of his comrades and quite a few other things.
i put pain and jiraiya together since theyre connected
i wouldnt put meeting his parents as suffering thats more of a good thing

TsukiMirage
3rd November 2013, 12:20 AM
they both did bad things in order to protect the village
both considered a traitor
were screwed over by the 3rd hokage
also even if danzo gained power it wouldve been for the greater good for the village its not like he wouldve killed everyone in the village he would just enforce stricter rules and focus on power so that konoha wont be messed with,exactly how did he rile up the uchiha clan because everyone thought it was someone with a sharingan since it can control the nine tails so the obvious culprit would be the uchiha clan, the massacre was a back up plan if the 3rd hokage couldnt talk them out of the revolution. we dont know anything about oro and danzo's past relationship all we know is that oro gave him hashirama's dna and implanted 11 sharingans. he wasnt going to let it be destroyed he was just waiting for something to happen so he can become hokage than he wouldve acted if naruto didnt come back (my theory) Setting up the Uchiha clan, joining forces with Hanzou, and teaming up with Orochimaru had nothing to do with the village or protecting it. And as mentioned, he chose to hide instead of fight when Pain attacked, even though he had one of the most powerful techniques in his hands. When he's willing to allow the very people living in the village to be killed, he clearly is not just a stricter ruler.

Danzo and the council would have known for a fact that the Uchiha clan had nothing to do with the Kyuubi attacking, one because they knew the Kyuubi had been sealed with Kushina and two because they had two spies inside the clan that would have obviously reported back that they hadn't had a hand in it. And Danzo purposely forced Itachi into massacring before Sarutobi could talk to them, not to mention taking Shisui's eye when he planned on using it to prevent the coup.

We know Orochimaru is a missingnin responsible for the numerous deaths of Konoha citizens, yet Danzo freely worked with him and allowed him to be when he could have clearly taken him out.

Except that Konoha DID get destroyed, before Naruto appeared. So he obviously wouldn't have stopped it, because he actually didn't.


I suppose. Sasuke's always been selfish after all; he always does things that benefit his own ego and that's why I can't stand the idea of him being the Hokage. The fact that he believes he's a good candidate is laughable to me. Like, we're supposed to believe that he has everyone's best interests at heart? Yeah right. He's selfish, that true, but nothing he did was ever about his own ego. It's always been about his family/clan. If it was about his own ego, he wouldn't have allowed Deidara to call him out for only being special due to the Sharingan, or acknowledged that he only beat Orochimaru because he was weaken, or spoke about wishing that Itachi had killed him along with the rest of their family. An egotistical person doesn't put their life on the line for other people numerous times.

What you're suppose to believe is that he wants to make sure that no other massacre like the one he had to deal with happens again. One wouldn't have to have everyone's best interest at heart to do good, and as a leader, such a thing would be nearly impossible.


Sasuke has actually been pretty reckless quite frequently actually. Underestimating Deidara, charging into the 5 Kage Summit, taking on Team 7 while being near blind, his battles with Kabuto and the Ten-Tails all those things just give a example to how reckless Sasuke could be.

Naruto's actions are selfish to a degree no denying it but not to the point where he's willing to let an entire nation of people get exterminated just because they bad mouthed his family. How did he underestimate Deidara? He only wanted to question Deidara, had another plan ready in case his first plan didn't work, and had a way to escape danger. That's completely different from the fight with Kirabi, where there was no plan and he just messed around before he got serious.

He didn't "charge" into the summit. He shuck in and was doing pretty good until Zetsu purposely revealed his presence. Not sure what's reckless about talking. Or what's reckless about fighting Kabuto with Itachi to end Edo Tensei or the Juubi with everyone else...

It was specifically pointed out by Kisame that Sasuke wouldn't have been able to get the council without going through the ninjas beneath them. Anyway, Naruto was willing to start a war with Kumo over Sasuke, outright stating that if they killed Sasuke(which they were justified in doing), he and the girls would attack them starting a cycle of hatred. And as mentioned, he was perfectly willing to allow Sasuke to run around killing as long as it wasn't Konoha. At least Sasuke was shown learning the error of his ways and not doing it.


All three members of Taka are poorly written characters with nothing else to do but to follow Sasuke. Karin is a joke now and any story they could have made for her is gone. Suigetsu's quest for those sowrdsman blades went nowhere and Jugo was always a sheep. They hardly qualify as people Sasuke's inspired.

As for the main stuff, I don't think either Naruto or Sasuke would make good Hokages, but I still think Naruto would make a better choice over Sasuke. True you don't have to be a kind person to be a leader, but Sasuke is downright unlikable. Only shallow woman and Orochimaru seem to love this guy. He only cares about his own agendas, he's nasty to anyone who actually tries to befriend him, and he's always being used for someone else's cause be it Orochimaru, Tobi/Obito, or Itachi. Itachi was not the only one to manipulate Sasuke. Orochimaru did it in part 1. He just did it slower and used the cursed mark to aide in it. Tobi always saw Sasuke as a tool, a necessary one but a tool nonetheless, it was he the tossed Sasuke and Taka at the Gokages. Sasuke being Hokage won't change anything. He'll never have 100% trust of the village and again someone can just manipulate the Uchiha history and totally mind **** Sasuke into madness. Shikamaru would have been the best choice but it's looking like Naruto will be Hokage and end the entire ninja system itself. It will be the day ninjas lost their jobs. That sort of logic could apply to every character. There's no logical reason either one would be followed, as neither have any real leadership qualities.

How so? How would Naruto be better for said position?

Unlikable? That I would very much disagree with. Sasuke was quite well liked up until the events of the summit, and that has begun to come back since his reappearance against the Juubi. The former Hokages like him well enough. Nasty? I would hardly call being apathetic nasty. And as mentioned, people who tried to use him are the ones who ended up being used. He turnt both Orochimaru and Obito's attempts to use him right back on them, getting everything he wanted while leaving them with little. Itachi was the only one to actually manipulate him. Even Orochimaru acknowledged that after being revived. And why would he not be trusted? As far as the majority of people are aware, he hasn't done anything to warrant massive mistrust. Naruto can't become the Hokage and end the system, he would have to do that from the outside, a neutral position.

And can I just ask, where is this idea that he's so easily manipulated comes from? The only reason he believed what Obito told him was because he recalled memories from that night, and even then he verified it again when he confronted Danzo and Itachi, and then had the Hokages rough back for the whole story. It was never as if he took what he was told at face value. So this belief that he could be tricked by any mention of the Uchiha clan makes no sense. The only lies that Sasuke fell for were Obito being Madara, which everyone fell for, and perhaps the claim that the Kyuubi was a natural disaster.

Platinum fan.
3rd November 2013, 12:26 AM
honestly if itachi orochimaru and obito didnt corrupt him he couldve became a good hokage before they changed him he was very likeable imo but it go down like that
naruto is a ninja that belongs on the battlefield like kakashi not behind a desk giving orders
my choices for hokage since the beginning have been (yes i know what has happened to them so no point of telling me)
jiraiya
kakashi
neji
shikamaru
naruto was in that list,but than something changed inside my brain where i dont like the main characters/heros as much as the other characters in the series

Well since Jiraiya himself said he's not suited for Hokage business, I'm not sure he would be the best. He's a outstanding ninja though. I do miss Jiraiya. We don't have many fun characters like that left. Neji is the only one I wouldn't agree with on that list. Neji's a good solider and sometimes during the Konoha 11 meetings he's second in command behind Shikamaru. I don't know if he'd make a good Hokage though. Many factors go into being Hokage, I'm just not sure Neji has them all. And now Naruto as Hokage. Naruto has traits of a Hokage but he's lacking many of them as well. Not letting anyone help him in the field, not following instructions like when Tsunade and Raikage tried to urge him and Bee back into hiding. I know he's the main hero and proved himself to Raikage and all but still. Kakashi would have made a excellent Hokage and other then Shikamaru, he would be a prime choice. But like Jiraiya, he doesn't feel he's suited for it. *sigh*

RIN IS ALWAYS WATCHING YOU! AND SOMETIMES WHAT SHE SEES MAKES HER SICK!

Lorde
3rd November 2013, 12:31 AM
*Looks at the essays in this thread* Why can't the Bleach thread ever have these kinds of in-depth debates and analyses?

I'm personally done with Sasuke. I mean he's gotten a lot of screen-time over the years and I think his position is clear. I want Naruto to beat him badly when they finally fight; I want Naruto to prove once and for all that he's stronger and a better leader, and that Sasuke shouldn't have even suggested that he could be the next Hokage. I just think it's a joke for him to say that he wants to be Hokage after all the crap he's pulled and all the sadness Naruto and Sakura felt while he was out there following his obsessions.

LightningMaster95
3rd November 2013, 12:48 AM
Well since Jiraiya himself said he's not suited for Hokage business, I'm not sure he would be the best. He's a outstanding ninja though. I do miss Jiraiya. We don't have many fun characters like that left. Neji is the only one I wouldn't agree with on that list. Neji's a good solider and sometimes during the Konoha 11 meetings he's second in command behind Shikamaru. I don't know if he'd make a good Hokage though. Many factors go into being Hokage, I'm just not sure Neji has them all. And now Naruto as Hokage. Naruto has traits of a Hokage but he's lacking many of them as well. Not letting anyone help him in the field, not following instructions like when Tsunade and Raikage tried to urge him and Bee back into hiding. I know he's the main hero and proved himself to Raikage and all but still. Kakashi would have made a excellent Hokage and other then Shikamaru, he would be a prime choice. But like Jiraiya, he doesn't feel he's suited for it. *sigh*

RIN IS ALWAYS WATCHING YOU! AND SOMETIMES WHAT SHE SEES MAKES HER SICK!
just because he said it didnt fit him doesnt mean he wouldve been bad he was offered the job multiple times so they had a good feeling he wouldve done an excellent job. i liked neji thats y i put him there he was strong smart reliable and lost his attitude after a while and showed he was willing to die for his friends
what i found interesting is that jiraiya was suppose to be the 4th /5th/6th hokage but never got to be one i wish naruto if he becomes hokage makes them put jiraiya's face on the monument
also kakashi has been offered/recommended the job as well by many people the elders/shikamaru's dad/tsunade/jiraiya/probably minato after obito died

Platinum fan.
3rd November 2013, 12:51 AM
Setting up the Uchiha clan, joining forces with Hanzou, and teaming up with Orochimaru had nothing to do with the village or protecting it. And as mentioned, he chose to hide instead of fight when Pain attacked, even though he had one of the most powerful techniques in his hands. When he's willing to allow the very people living in the village to be killed, he clearly is not just a stricter ruler.

Danzo and the council would have known for a fact that the Uchiha clan had nothing to do with the Kyuubi attacking, one because they knew the Kyuubi had been sealed with Kushina and two because they had two spies inside the clan that would have obviously reported back that they hadn't had a hand in it. And Danzo purposely forced Itachi into massacring before Sarutobi could talk to them, not to mention taking Shisui's eye when he planned on using it to prevent the coup.

We know Orochimaru is a missingnin responsible for the numerous deaths of Konoha citizens, yet Danzo freely worked with him and allowed him to be when he could have clearly taken him out.

Except that Konoha DID get destroyed, before Naruto appeared. So he obviously wouldn't have stopped it, because he actually didn't.

He's selfish, that true, but nothing he did was ever about his own ego. It's always been about his family/clan. If it was about his own ego, he wouldn't have allowed Deidara to call him out for only being special due to the Sharingan, or acknowledged that he only beat Orochimaru because he was weaken, or spoke about wishing that Itachi had killed him along with the rest of their family. An egotistical person doesn't put their life on the line for other people numerous times.

What you're suppose to believe is that he wants to make sure that no other massacre like the one he had to deal with happens again. One wouldn't have to have everyone's best interest at heart to do good, and as a leader, such a thing would be nearly impossible.

How did he underestimate Deidara? He only wanted to question Deidara, had another plan ready in case his first plan didn't work, and had a way to escape danger. That's completely different from the fight with Kirabi, where there was no plan and he just messed around before he got serious.

He didn't "charge" into the summit. He shuck in and was doing pretty good until Zetsu purposely revealed his presence. Not sure what's reckless about talking. Or what's reckless about fighting Kabuto with Itachi to end Edo Tensei or the Juubi with everyone else...

It was specifically pointed out by Kisame that Sasuke wouldn't have been able to get the council without going through the ninjas beneath them. Anyway, Naruto was willing to start a war with Kumo over Sasuke, outright stating that if they killed Sasuke(which they were justified in doing), he and the girls would attack them starting a cycle of hatred. And as mentioned, he was perfectly willing to allow Sasuke to run around killing as long as it wasn't Konoha. At least Sasuke was shown learning the error of his ways and not doing it.

That sort of logic could apply to every character. There's no logical reason either one would be followed, as neither have any real leadership qualities.

How so? How would Naruto be better for said position?

Unlikable? That I would very much disagree with. Sasuke was quite well liked up until the events of the summit, and that has begun to come back since his reappearance against the Juubi. The former Hokages like him well enough. Nasty? I would hardly call being apathetic nasty. And as mentioned, people who tried to use him are the ones who ended up being used. He turnt both Orochimaru and Obito's attempts to use him right back on them, getting everything he wanted while leaving them with little. Itachi was the only one to actually manipulate him. Even Orochimaru acknowledged that after being revived. And why would he not be trusted? As far as the majority of people are aware, he hasn't done anything to warrant massive mistrust. Naruto can't become the Hokage and end the system, he would have to do that from the outside, a neutral position.

And can I just ask, where is this idea that he's so easily manipulated comes from? The only reason he believed what Obito told him was because he recalled memories from that night, and even then he verified it again when he confronted Danzo and Itachi, and then had the Hokages rough back for the whole story. It was never as if he took what he was told at face value. So this belief that he could be tricked by any mention of the Uchiha clan makes no sense. The only lies that Sasuke fell for were Obito being Madara, which everyone fell for, and perhaps the claim that the Kyuubi was a natural disaster.

The manipulation of Sasuke still stands. Sasuke went to Orochimaru for power, even though Sasuke ended up winning over Orochimaru, Orochimaru already predicted Sasuke would come to him. It was his curse mark that planted the idea that Orochimaru could give Sasuke more power if he went over to his side. And it's true Sasuke did manipulate Orochimaru in the end, Orochimaru still got Sasuke out of Konoha. Tobi used Sasuke to attack Killer Bee and later the Gokage summit. Sasuke might have had his own agenda in mind but it was still Obito/Tobi who guided Sasuke to these two points. Sasuke had no business with Killer Bee whatsoever until Obito pointed him in that direction as he did with the Gokage. Sasuke failed both those missions and Obito even had to save him, but Sasuke did not use Obito the way he did Orochimaru. When I say these guys manipulated him, I mean to say they got Sasuke to fight for their side and they did. Sasuke fought for both Orochimaru and Obito and that cannot be ignored.

As for the unlikable and nasty stuff, I mean his personality. Sasuke was always very popular in Konoha's school for being a jerk. The girls just ate that up and he had a legion of followers. Sasuke was popular for being this handsome mysterious lone wolf, but outside Sakura, none of them were really his friends or saw the cruel side of Sasuke. I don't hate Sasuke, I actually like him, but I don't think he qualifies as a Hokage. He started to mellow out and become more friendly when Kakashi started doing one on one training with him and he actually felt like he cared for his team and felt human. That was when Sasuke was actually starting to evolve then they ruined it with this whole Darth Uchiha stuff.

J Ken
3rd November 2013, 12:55 AM
@ tak310 They might be connected but Naruto handling Jiraiya's death and his showdown with Nagato both made him suffer in distinct ways.
Meeting his parents wouldn't necessarily be just a good thing considering he learned about how they died and realized the struggle that they themselves went through before his birth.

@TsukiMage Sasuke clearly underestimated Deidara considering how lightly he took him during the fight and was nearly killed for assuming he won the battle and taking Deidara like a joke in the end.

He clearly charged into a fight with all of them. Zetsu or not Sasuke would have tried to fight them all either way. He was reckless with how he went to the summit without forming a logical plan outside of sneak in and kill Danzo who would have been surrounded by a ton of armed and skilled shinobi. In the fight with Kabuto he constantly let himself open to attacks from Kabuto and had it not been for Itachi would have been killed. It can be argued that he saved Itachi as well but then again Itachi was already dead so unless Kabuto attempted to put him back under his control then I doubt Itachi was in any real danger. He recklessly rushed to attack the Ten Tails despite Naruto's warnings of not trying to exterminate it and at that point only a handful of people were fighting the Ten-Tails.

That didn't stop Sasuke from attacking them without any plan and abandoning his teammates did it. Naruto never outright said he would star a war with them he just warned them about the consequences their actions could bring them. I'm not saying he's right because quite frankly he's wrong as well as Sasuke but when it comes to the two of them Naruto is the lesser of two evils sort to speak.

TsukiMirage
3rd November 2013, 7:17 AM
The manipulation of Sasuke still stands. Sasuke went to Orochimaru for power, even though Sasuke ended up winning over Orochimaru, Orochimaru already predicted Sasuke would come to him. It was his curse mark that planted the idea that Orochimaru could give Sasuke more power if he went over to his side. And it's true Sasuke did manipulate Orochimaru in the end, Orochimaru still got Sasuke out of Konoha. Tobi used Sasuke to attack Killer Bee and later the Gokage summit. Sasuke might have had his own agenda in mind but it was still Obito/Tobi who guided Sasuke to these two points. Sasuke had no business with Killer Bee whatsoever until Obito pointed him in that direction as he did with the Gokage. Sasuke failed both those missions and Obito even had to save him, but Sasuke did not use Obito the way he did Orochimaru. When I say these guys manipulated him, I mean to say they got Sasuke to fight for their side and they did. Sasuke fought for both Orochimaru and Obito and that cannot be ignored. But it wasn't manipulation. Manipulation would have been having Sasuke do something without knowing the reason or without knowing that was what was planned, neither of which fits what happen with either Orochimaru or Obito. Sasuke went to Orochimaru cause he literally sent a group over there to bring Sasuke to him. Had Orochimaru not sent the Sound Four, there would have been no reason for Sasuke to even consider the idea, an idea that he was shown oppose to until getting royally beat down. Manipulation would be what Itachi did, who got Sasuke to play into his hands without even realizing he was playing into Itachi's hands.

Obito using him is quite different from manipulating him. I agree that both Obito and Orochimaru used Sasuke, but Sasuke got more out of both of those. He used Obito not only to extract his revenge, but also to gain EMS, while all Obito got out of it was one of the Hachibi's tentacles. Sasuke fought for his own side. It was merely that they all had similar goals, so both sides benefited. But it was made clear with both Orochimaru and Obito that Sasuke was only playing along until he got what he wanted. His intentions to betray them was there from the start.


As for the unlikable and nasty stuff, I mean his personality. Sasuke was always very popular in Konoha's school for being a jerk. The girls just ate that up and he had a legion of followers. Sasuke was popular for being this handsome mysterious lone wolf, but outside Sakura, none of them were really his friends or saw the cruel side of Sasuke. I don't hate Sasuke, I actually like him, but I don't think he qualifies as a Hokage. He started to mellow out and become more friendly when Kakashi started doing one on one training with him and he actually felt like he cared for his team and felt human. That was when Sasuke was actually starting to evolve then they ruined it with this whole Darth Uchiha stuff. I really can't recall anything nasty or cruel actions Sasuke showed back then. He was apathetic, but aside from talking down to Naruto, he wasn't exactly mean. I mean, what you described fits Neji more then Sasuke. I agree that Sauske's far from the most qualified to be Hokage, but I would say he's more qualified then Naruto for the position. Both would be far beneath Shikamaru and Kakashi.


Sasuke clearly underestimated Deidara considering how lightly he took him during the fight and was nearly killed for assuming he won the battle and taking Deidara like a joke in the end. Sasuke didn't "take Deidara like a joke" at the end. The whole point was that Sasuke never intended to kill Deidara, something he says before the fight began. He wanted to question Deidara. Sasuke shut down his Sharingan towards the end because Deidara made it clear that it was pissing him off, so obviously keeping it active was detrimental to getting any answers.


He clearly charged into a fight with all of them. Zetsu or not Sasuke would have tried to fight them all either way. He was reckless with how he went to the summit without forming a logical plan outside of sneak in and kill Danzo who would have been surrounded by a ton of armed and skilled shinobi. In the fight with Kabuto he constantly let himself open to attacks from Kabuto and had it not been for Itachi would have been killed. It can be argued that he saved Itachi as well but then again Itachi was already dead so unless Kabuto attempted to put him back under his control then I doubt Itachi was in any real danger. He recklessly rushed to attack the Ten Tails despite Naruto's warnings of not trying to exterminate it and at that point only a handful of people were fighting the Ten-Tails. Sasuke and his team were sneaking out. If Sasuke had intended to fight at the summit, then there would have been no reaosn for him not to attack Danzo the moment he saw him, yet instead of fighting right then and there, Team Taka left. And they did have a plan, locate danzo and then ambush him on the way back to Konoha, which they went over right before entering the summit.

As for Kabuto, the only time I can recall that he was open to attack was during the White Rage technique, and I don't know how that would qualify. And Kabuto was attempting to take back control of Itachi, quite early on in that battle.

Naruto's "warning" was completely stupid and there was no reason to listen to it. Naruto didn't explain anything. If anything, had the Juubi been taken care of fast enough, the war would have been over and a lot of people wouldn't be dead. I would point out that Sasuke wasn't the only one fighting to kill the Juubi. So were the Hokages, so clearly it wasn't a bad decision.


That didn't stop Sasuke from attacking them without any plan and abandoning his teammates did it. Naruto never outright said he would star a war with them he just warned them about the consequences their actions could bring them. I'm not saying he's right because quite frankly he's wrong as well as Sasuke but when it comes to the two of them Naruto is the lesser of two evils sort to speak. He had a plan, it just didn't go as expected. Naruto had been tasked with ending the cycle of hatred, yet he made it clear that he would allow it to happen. And naruto is definitely the greater of the two evils. We're talking about a guy who despite knowing that Obito was using the handsigns to become the Juubi Jinchuuriki, something no one else was aware of, did nothing to stop him. While Sasuke rushed in like ordered by Hashirama, Naruto attempted to stop him, which made no sense since the entire goal was to stop the creation of the Juubi Jinchuuriki. He waited until afterward to explain things, instead of before when it would have been more helpful and could have allowed them to stop not only Obito's plan, but Madara's plan too.

Platinum fan.
3rd November 2013, 2:20 PM
But it wasn't manipulation. Manipulation would have been having Sasuke do something without knowing the reason or without knowing that was what was planned, neither of which fits what happen with either Orochimaru or Obito. Sasuke went to Orochimaru cause he literally sent a group over there to bring Sasuke to him. Had Orochimaru not sent the Sound Four, there would have been no reason for Sasuke to even consider the idea, an idea that he was shown oppose to until getting royally beat down. Manipulation would be what Itachi did, who got Sasuke to play into his hands without even realizing he was playing into Itachi's hands.

Obito using him is quite different from manipulating him. I agree that both Obito and Orochimaru used Sasuke, but Sasuke got more out of both of those. He used Obito not only to extract his revenge, but also to gain EMS, while all Obito got out of it was one of the Hachibi's tentacles. Sasuke fought for his own side. It was merely that they all had similar goals, so both sides benefited. But it was made clear with both Orochimaru and Obito that Sasuke was only playing along until he got what he wanted. His intentions to betray them was there from the start.

I really can't recall anything nasty or cruel actions Sasuke showed back then. He was apathetic, but aside from talking down to Naruto, he wasn't exactly mean. I mean, what you described fits Neji more then Sasuke. I agree that Sauske's far from the most qualified to be Hokage, but I would say he's more qualified then Naruto for the position. Both would be far beneath Shikamaru and Kakashi.

Sasuke didn't "take Deidara like a joke" at the end. The whole point was that Sasuke never intended to kill Deidara, something he says before the fight began. He wanted to question Deidara. Sasuke shut down his Sharingan towards the end because Deidara made it clear that it was pissing him off, so obviously keeping it active was detrimental to getting any answers.

Sasuke and his team were sneaking out. If Sasuke had intended to fight at the summit, then there would have been no reaosn for him not to attack Danzo the moment he saw him, yet instead of fighting right then and there, Team Taka left. And they did have a plan, locate danzo and then ambush him on the way back to Konoha, which they went over right before entering the summit.

As for Kabuto, the only time I can recall that he was open to attack was during the White Rage technique, and I don't know how that would qualify. And Kabuto was attempting to take back control of Itachi, quite early on in that battle.

Naruto's "warning" was completely stupid and there was no reason to listen to it. Naruto didn't explain anything. If anything, had the Juubi been taken care of fast enough, the war would have been over and a lot of people wouldn't be dead. I would point out that Sasuke wasn't the only one fighting to kill the Juubi. So were the Hokages, so clearly it wasn't a bad decision.

He had a plan, it just didn't go as expected. Naruto had been tasked with ending the cycle of hatred, yet he made it clear that he would allow it to happen. And naruto is definitely the greater of the two evils. We're talking about a guy who despite knowing that Obito was using the handsigns to become the Juubi Jinchuuriki, something no one else was aware of, did nothing to stop him. While Sasuke rushed in like ordered by Hashirama, Naruto attempted to stop him, which made no sense since the entire goal was to stop the creation of the Juubi Jinchuuriki. He waited until afterward to explain things, instead of before when it would have been more helpful and could have allowed them to stop not only Obito's plan, but Madara's plan too.

That does describe Neji. Sasuke still wasn't at all friendly at first. He was the jerk/loner/anti-hero who had a soft side that showed when it needed. He did warm up as part 1 went on. Neji was flat out bully, which was worse then Sasuke's lone wolf/jerk/anti-hero thing. Seriously before Naruto changed him, Neji would depress the heck out of you.

But back on the Hokage topic, I don't think Naruto or Sasuke qualify right now. One thing that really stands out is when Naruto had the chance to take revenge on Nagato for killing Jiraiya, Kakashi, Shizune, and all those fodder ninja he didn't. He didn't forgive him but he let him live. Not very ninja like but it showed he's not controlled by his personal emotions.

Sasuke had a similar moment with Danzo, and as we know he kills him for revenge. Now that is more ninja like, the only thing is he did it for his own reasons of emotion and sacrificed Karin to do it. It would be different if Karin was yelling at Sasuke to kill them both to take down Danzo for a mission or something, but Karin is pleading for Sasuke to save her and he doesn't. It was a betrayal sacrifice not one for the village or anything it was just so Sasuke could take out his revenge on Danzo. How can you trust a entire village to him to ensure to keep safe when he sacrifices his rabid fangirl? Sasuke turned his back on everyone who treated him well Naruto, Sakura, Kakashi, Karin, so what would stop him from turning his back on Konoha's village? It's why despite feeling neither are suited for it long term, Naruto would make a better Hokage. But both are lacking. Naruto can't make harsh choices and Sasuke is probably never going to get Konoha's full support. He was a Akatsuki villain. That is hard to ignore.

LightningMaster95
3rd November 2013, 4:41 PM
naruto in order to become a good hokage he needs to become smart(outside of battle) learn that not everyone is going to change and become more serious
sasuke needs to learn on how to rely on people, become less reckless,and become loyal

J Ken
3rd November 2013, 5:42 PM
@TsukiMage- I like Sasuke but it feels like you are trying to sugar coat his crimes and make it seem like he wasn't too blame for his actions.

At the end of VS Deidara Sasuke clearly did underestimate considering how he just expected Deidara to give him answers and even let his guard down to the point where Deidara was able to activate C0 and would have killed him had it not been for Sasuke having Oricharmu's abilities.

Nothing stopped him from leaving after his team was found out in the summit. If anything Sasuke staying and fighting just proved how easily he would have gone against his supposed plan if given the chance to.

If Sasuke was a reliable ally Itachi wouldn't have been so hesitant to accept Sasuke as his partner to fight Kabuto. He knows how hot blooded and impulsive Sasuke gets and quite frankly Sasuke impatiences and recklessness would have cost him if Itachi didn't mellow him out.

Nothing was going to stop Obito from gaining the 10 tails and at lest Naruto had the intent of saving the Bijuu instead of slaughtering them like Sasuke intended. I'm not defending Naruto but it's quite clear that from him and Sasuke that he's a more eligible candidate then Sasuke. The Kages were actually trying to subdue it not kill it. Never once did they imply that they were trying to kill it.

His "plan" could have easily worked if he sticked whatever it was instead of recklessly slaughtering the samurai and trying to kill the Kumo and Sand ninjas. Everything at the point where Obito was trying to become the Jinchuriki was going by too fast even if Naruto explained it Obito would have just become the Jinchuriki while they were busy talking. They wouldn't be in the situation though if Sasuke didn't help Akatsuki in obtaining the Eight Tails chakra so by a chain of events Sasuke is too blame for them being in that situation to begin with.

Lorde
3rd November 2013, 6:17 PM
naruto in order to become a good hokage he needs to become smart(outside of battle) learn that not everyone is going to change and become more serious

He seems to be just like Hashirama in terms of personality, and yet Hashirama was a great Hokage. I don't think a Hokage needs to be extremely intelligent; Shikamaru already expressed interest in helping Naruto as his adviser anyway, so Naruto doesn't need to have a lot of knowledge himself if he has smart people around him.

LightningMaster95
3rd November 2013, 6:25 PM
He seems to be just like Hashirama in terms of personality, and yet Hashirama was a great Hokage. I don't think a Hokage needs to be extremely intelligent; Shikamaru already expressed interest in helping Naruto as his adviser anyway, so Naruto doesn't need to have a lot of knowledge himself if he has smart people around him.
hashirama is the main reason this war is going on so naruto shouldnt be like him imo

TsukiMirage
3rd November 2013, 10:16 PM
But back on the Hokage topic, I don't think Naruto or Sasuke qualify right now. One thing that really stands out is when Naruto had the chance to take revenge on Nagato for killing Jiraiya, Kakashi, Shizune, and all those fodder ninja he didn't. He didn't forgive him but he let him live. Not very ninja like but it showed he's not controlled by his personal emotions.

Sasuke had a similar moment with Danzo, and as we know he kills him for revenge. Now that is more ninja like, the only thing is he did it for his own reasons of emotion and sacrificed Karin to do it. It would be different if Karin was yelling at Sasuke to kill them both to take down Danzo for a mission or something, but Karin is pleading for Sasuke to save her and he doesn't. It was a betrayal sacrifice not one for the village or anything it was just so Sasuke could take out his revenge on Danzo. How can you trust a entire village to him to ensure to keep safe when he sacrifices his rabid fangirl? Sasuke turned his back on everyone who treated him well Naruto, Sakura, Kakashi, Karin, so what would stop him from turning his back on Konoha's village? It's why despite feeling neither are suited for it long term, Naruto would make a better Hokage. But both are lacking. Naruto can't make harsh choices and Sasuke is probably never going to get Konoha's full support. He was a Akatsuki villain. That is hard to ignore. But that's hardly a fair comparison. Yeah Naruto spared Nagato, but that was after he was able to get everything out of his system by taking out the Paths, before the reveal that they were just puppets.

Anyway, aside from the fact that such a situation was "out of character", there are times when such a sacrifice is necessary to ensure the peace. Just take a look at the Hyuuga Affair, where without such a sacrifice, Konoha would have been forced into war. Technically, the Uchiha Massacre was the same, a sacrifice for the greater good, though obviously in that case it wasn't a necessity. And then we have seen what happens when one doesn't do what was needed, such as Sarutobi killing Orochimaru or Minato allowing Kushina to sacrifice herself.

As for why Sasuke would protect Konoha, that's because that's what Itachi desired, and Itachi is the one person Sasuke revered most of all. It ties right back to the original situation with Madara, where the point was electing him to give him something to defend. How much Akatsuki matters is questionable after the reveal that the villages were using their services.


@TsukiMage- I like Sasuke but it feels like you are trying to sugar coat his crimes and make it seem like he wasn't too blame for his actions. I would hardly say I sugar coating anything, but you're faulting him for stuff that wasn't his fault.


At the end of VS Deidara Sasuke clearly did underestimate considering how he just expected Deidara to give him answers and even let his guard down to the point where Deidara was able to activate C0 and would have killed him had it not been for Sasuke having Oricharmu's abilities. He had completely beaten Deidara, who was nearly out of chakra. Why should he not have expected that he could get some answers at that point? Deidara activating C0 would have happen regardless of what Sasuke was doing, and it was only escapable using Manda. The only way that Sasuke could have avoided that would have been to kill Deidara before that final clash, which would have defeated the entire point of fighting him in the first place.


Nothing stopped him from leaving after his team was found out in the summit. If anything Sasuke staying and fighting just proved how easily he would have gone against his supposed plan if given the chance to. Except the fact that they were surrounded by samurai in a large building. Exactly how could they have gotten out? Run away with their backs open to attack?


If Sasuke was a reliable ally Itachi wouldn't have been so hesitant to accept Sasuke as his partner to fight Kabuto. He knows how hot blooded and impulsive Sasuke gets and quite frankly Sasuke impatiences and recklessness would have cost him if Itachi didn't mellow him out. Itachi was hesitant about telling Sasuke the truth about what had happen, it had nothing to do with fighting together. Itachi was the one who suggested that they fight together. And I would point out that Sasuke "saved" Itachi more then Itachi saved him during that battle.


Nothing was going to stop Obito from gaining the 10 tails and at lest Naruto had the intent of saving the Bijuu instead of slaughtering them like Sasuke intended. I'm not defending Naruto but it's quite clear that from him and Sasuke that he's a more eligible candidate then Sasuke. The Kages were actually trying to subdue it not kill it. Never once did they imply that they were trying to kill it. Obito being killed would have stopped him, and the Bijuus are even suppose to exist. Their existences has only brought trouble. And how exactly is launching explosive tags, throwing it's own blast right back at it, and trying to land Sage powered blast subduing? Sasuke outright mentioned getting rid of the Juubi after Minato struck down Obito and Minato didn't say any differently.


His "plan" could have easily worked if he sticked whatever it was instead of recklessly slaughtering the samurai and trying to kill the Kumo and Sand ninjas. Everything at the point where Obito was trying to become the Jinchuriki was going by too fast even if Naruto explained it Obito would have just become the Jinchuriki while they were busy talking. They wouldn't be in the situation though if Sasuke didn't help Akatsuki in obtaining the Eight Tails chakra so by a chain of events Sasuke is too blame for them being in that situation to begin with. No, it couldn't. Aside from the fact that Danzo knowing he was there defeating any possibility of an ambush, they had no way to escape the building without fighting back. And no, Naruto had plenty of time to explain. There was clearly quite a bit of time between when Obito began and when he actually succeed, time enough that Sasuke and Minato were able to have a conversation. It wouldn't even have taken more then a sentence: Obito's not reviving Madara, he's trying to become the Jinchuuriki himself. He could have easily said that instead of trying to tell Sasuke to stop, which made no kind of sense. And while Sasuke does hold blame for the situation, that holds true for quite a bit of people. Sasuke handing over the Hachibi tail was neither the beginning of the situation, nor was some critical component. We were clearly shown that had Obito really wanted the Hachibi, he could have had Kisame really fight instead of messing around.

LightningMaster95
3rd November 2013, 11:12 PM
Itachi was hesitant about telling Sasuke the truth about what had happen, it had nothing to do with fighting together. Itachi was the one who suggested that they fight together. And I would point out that Sasuke "saved" Itachi more then Itachi saved him during that battle.

http://www.mangahit.com/naruto/577/14 didnt want sasuke to go with him and wanted to do it by himself

itachi saving sasuke
http://www.mangahit.com/naruto/580/6
http://www.mangahit.com/naruto/582/3
please tell when sasuke saved itachi more times

Platinum fan.
4th November 2013, 2:39 PM
But that's hardly a fair comparison. Yeah Naruto spared Nagato, but that was after he was able to get everything out of his system by taking out the Paths, before the reveal that they were just puppets.

Anyway, aside from the fact that such a situation was "out of character", there are times when such a sacrifice is necessary to ensure the peace. Just take a look at the Hyuuga Affair, where without such a sacrifice, Konoha would have been forced into war. Technically, the Uchiha Massacre was the same, a sacrifice for the greater good, though obviously in that case it wasn't a necessity. And then we have seen what happens when one doesn't do what was needed, such as Sarutobi killing Orochimaru or Minato allowing Kushina to sacrifice herself.

As for why Sasuke would protect Konoha, that's because that's what Itachi desired, and Itachi is the one person Sasuke revered most of all. It ties right back to the original situation with Madara, where the point was electing him to give him something to defend. How much Akatsuki matters is questionable after the reveal that the villages were using their services.

I would hardly say I sugar coating anything, but you're faulting him for stuff that wasn't his fault.

He had completely beaten Deidara, who was nearly out of chakra. Why should he not have expected that he could get some answers at that point? Deidara activating C0 would have happen regardless of what Sasuke was doing, and it was only escapable using Manda. The only way that Sasuke could have avoided that would have been to kill Deidara before that final clash, which would have defeated the entire point of fighting him in the first place.

Except the fact that they were surrounded by samurai in a large building. Exactly how could they have gotten out? Run away with their backs open to attack?

Itachi was hesitant about telling Sasuke the truth about what had happen, it had nothing to do with fighting together. Itachi was the one who suggested that they fight together. And I would point out that Sasuke "saved" Itachi more then Itachi saved him during that battle.

Obito being killed would have stopped him, and the Bijuus are even suppose to exist. Their existences has only brought trouble. And how exactly is launching explosive tags, throwing it's own blast right back at it, and trying to land Sage powered blast subduing? Sasuke outright mentioned getting rid of the Juubi after Minato struck down Obito and Minato didn't say any differently.

No, it couldn't. Aside from the fact that Danzo knowing he was there defeating any possibility of an ambush, they had no way to escape the building without fighting back. And no, Naruto had plenty of time to explain. There was clearly quite a bit of time between when Obito began and when he actually succeed, time enough that Sasuke and Minato were able to have a conversation. It wouldn't even have taken more then a sentence: Obito's not reviving Madara, he's trying to become the Jinchuuriki himself. He could have easily said that instead of trying to tell Sasuke to stop, which made no kind of sense. And while Sasuke does hold blame for the situation, that holds true for quite a bit of people. Sasuke handing over the Hachibi tail was neither the beginning of the situation, nor was some critical component. We were clearly shown that had Obito really wanted the Hachibi, he could have had Kisame really fight instead of messing around.

Naruto had to defeat the Pain Paths because they were attacking the village, killing the villagers while looking for him. As a soldier of Konoha it was his job to stop them. It was also already know by the higher ups by that time that the Pains were all puppets thanks to Jiraiya's code. Choji's dad even spoke of one as if it were a machine when he, Choji, and Kakashi were fighting them. Naruto had to stop them or his village would die, and it did get blown up and people did die. Nagato cheapened it by bringing them all back, but Naruto didn't know that was going to happen when he spared Nagato not giving into his urge to kill him out of revenge.

Sasuke's vengeance on Danzo was different then the Hyuuga affair however. True a sacrifice was needed to avert war with Raikage's nation, but Neji's father volunteered to be that sacrifice for his family. Karin did not agree to be a sacrifice, she was crying for Sasuke to help her. Sasuke didn't care and struck her down with Danzo. If Karin agreed to sacrifice herself or when she got caught told Sasuke to forget about her and take the shot, that would be different. Sasuke even berates Karin for being caught after striking her and the best part about it was after Danzo had died, Obito persuades Sasuke into finishing off Karin, even though she was still barely alive and could have been saved, Sasuke without a second thought moves in to kill her. Sasuke killing Danzo did not benefit anyone long term but Sasuke himself. Kiba was right when he told Sasuke he doesn't even know what being Hokage means. Sasuke has never truly cared for anyone outside his clan. He use to care about Naruto, Sakura, and Kakashi, but look how he turned his back on them and tried to kill all three of them, and they had nothing to do with the Uchiha killings at all.

Lorde
4th November 2013, 7:50 PM
http://www.mangahit.com/naruto/577/14 didnt want sasuke to go with him and wanted to do it by himself

itachi saving sasuke
http://www.mangahit.com/naruto/580/6
http://www.mangahit.com/naruto/582/3
please tell when sasuke saved itachi more times

You're right for the most part. Itachi did save Sasuke more than Sasuke saved Itachi. It's one of the reasons why I disliked their fight against Kabuto; Itachi was the one who did all the hard work while Sasuke was all like "ONII-CHAN!" instead of actually contributing to the fight. It was one of the few times where Sasuke's been overshadowed.

J Ken
4th November 2013, 8:05 PM
You're right for the most part. Itachi did save Sasuke more than Sasuke saved Itachi. It's one of the reasons why I disliked their fight against Kabuto; Itachi was the one who did all the hard work while Sasuke was all like "ONII-CHAN!" instead of actually contributing to the fight. It was one of the few times where Sasuke's been overshadowed.

It also doesn't help that the Kabuto fight was the first true battle Sasuke had since obtaining the EMS but instead of showing something impressive and making it seem like he could take on Naruto he played the sidekick role and was overshadowed like you said.

Platinum fan.
4th November 2013, 10:34 PM
To be fair the big Edo Tensei's are overshadowing everyone. Naruto defeated Pain only to get owned by Edo Tensei Nagato, as it's been stated Edo Tensei Itachi overshadowed Sasuke in the Kabutomaru fight. For such a character like Sasuke who gets put in the biggest spots in Naruto, he's always with someone be it Taka or his zombie brother. And of course my favorite one of all, the Edo Tensei Dead Hokages overshadowing everyone in the war, and at times even both Naruto and Sasuke. Forget about actually building up characters like Sakura, Hinata, Choji, Shino, and the rest of Konoha to have their big moment to show they are the future of Konoha and that they've surpassed the old guard. No, let's turn the war into a fanfic and totally disregard what happened in part 1 and bring back Orochimaru, who gets back his good arms, who can summon all 4 previous Hokages, who can then proceed to overshadow everyone in the entire Allied Alliance. Naruto and Sasuke look downright secondary right now and they want to be Hokages! This is the main reason I hated this fanfic Edo Tensei revival.

RIN IS ALWAYS WATCHING YOU!

J Ken
4th November 2013, 10:38 PM
To be fair the big Edo Tensei's are overshadowing everyone. Naruto defeated Pain only to get owned by Edo Tensei Nagato, as it's been stated Edo Tensei Itachi overshadowed Sasuke in the Kabutomaru fight. For such a character like Sasuke who gets put in the biggest spots in Naruto, he's always with someone be it Taka or his zombie brother. And of course my favorite one of all, the Edo Tensei Dead Hokages overshadowing everyone in the war, and at times even both Naruto and Sasuke. Forget about actually building up characters like Sakura, Hinata, Choji, Shino, and the rest of Konoha to have their big moment to show they are the future of Konoha and that they've surpassed the old guard. No, let's turn the war into a fanfic and totally disregard what happened in part 1 and bring back Orochimaru, who gets back his good arms, who can summon all 4 previous Hokages, who can then proceed to overshadow everyone in the entire Allied Alliance. Naruto and Sasuke look downright secondary right now and they want to be Hokages! This is the main reason I hated this fanfic Edo Tensei revival.

RIN IS ALWAYS WATCHING YOU!

I agree. Honestly it completely contradicts the whole idea that the present surpasses the past considering that all the old faces of the past are the ones making the faces of the present look like a bunch of pansies.

LightningMaster95
4th November 2013, 11:09 PM
To be fair the big Edo Tensei's are overshadowing everyone. Naruto defeated Pain only to get owned by Edo Tensei Nagato, as it's been stated Edo Tensei Itachi overshadowed Sasuke in the Kabutomaru fight. For such a character like Sasuke who gets put in the biggest spots in Naruto, he's always with someone be it Taka or his zombie brother. And of course my favorite one of all, the Edo Tensei Dead Hokages overshadowing everyone in the war, and at times even both Naruto and Sasuke. Forget about actually building up characters like Sakura, Hinata, Choji, Shino, and the rest of Konoha to have their big moment to show they are the future of Konoha and that they've surpassed the old guard. No, let's turn the war into a fanfic and totally disregard what happened in part 1 and bring back Orochimaru, who gets back his good arms, who can summon all 4 previous Hokages, who can then proceed to overshadow everyone in the entire Allied Alliance. Naruto and Sasuke look downright secondary right now and they want to be Hokages! This is the main reason I hated this fanfic Edo Tensei revival.

RIN IS ALWAYS WATCHING YOU!

o please pain owned naruto during the first fight (dont argue i dont want to get into this arguement again naruto won because of plot) and again because of plot sasuske needed those characters or he wouldnt have survived none of those fights. im not gonna argue on the last one because that one i believe is true

not everyone in the current gen is going to surpass the older gen just a few (naruto and sasuke) and they still havent passed the older gens hashirama and madara

Platinum fan.
5th November 2013, 12:07 AM
o please pain owned naruto during the first fight (dont argue i dont want to get into this arguement again naruto won because of plot) and again because of plot sasuske needed those characters or he wouldnt have survived none of those fights. im not gonna argue on the last one because that one i believe is true

not everyone in the current gen is going to surpass the older gen just a few (naruto and sasuke) and they still havent passed the older gens hashirama and madara

You respond to what I say, but don't want me to respond back? I feel unloved now. I still have to respond when did Pain own Naruto? Are you talking about when Pain stabbed Naruto's hands to the ground? I mean compared to Naruto trashing all the Pain Paths minus the Yahiko one, that's pretty minor. Or are you referring to when he traps Naruto in his rage mode? Because Minato's Chakra ghost whatever knocks him back to reality which was always part of Naruto's seal so it's not really outside help, it's help from the inside literally XD we didn't know that until this fight, but it still gets him free of Pain, which leads to Naruto pwning Pain into a mountain, thus defeating him. I don't didn't really see Pain owning Naruto in their first fight besides those two moments.

I imagine Kishi gives Naruto and Sasuke outside help during these big fights so they don't look like totally unbeateble and so you can actually believe there are bad guys strong enough to defeat them and not look as uber haxxed as anyone with EMS and Rinnegan.

Lorde
5th November 2013, 12:11 AM
It also doesn't help that the Kabuto fight was the first true battle Sasuke had since obtaining the EMS but instead of showing something impressive and making it seem like he could take on Naruto he played the sidekick role and was overshadowed like you said.

And he still hasn't shown anything interesting using the EMS unless the Kyuubi armor thing counts, but I think he was just using Susanoo normally. Anyway, either Kishi is saving the EMS's other techniques for the Naruto/Sasuke battle (he did state that the EMS gave birth to new jutsu back when Itachi revealed Madara's backstory), or he just forgot.

Mr. Fuji
5th November 2013, 12:19 AM
Saying you won't argue simply because "you believe it" only makes it an opinion, one which everyone is entitled to, yet not every one of them is right. Regardless it's moot, that battle is far past over and done with, and "versus" discussions never get anywhere with people always having some sort of bias, and favorite involved whether they deny it or not. In regards to what "JKen" said clearly not every single shinobi can surpass the past or it would defeat the purpose of all the legends talking them up. Madara and Hashirama are viewed as borderline god-like shinobi or as close one could come to being one (not including Rikudou Sennin), and the two main characters (the one's who truly matter at this point) are shown to be well on the path of surpassing even them as alluded to by Orochimaru, and even Hashirama acknowledging Naruto's will and potential.

Platinum fan, your argument is porous at best. Returning Orochimaru hardly turns this into "burying" any of the young konoha shinobi, they all have their skills, they've had their moments already to a certain degree. Did you expect the likes of Choji, Lee, Kiba, Ino etc to really outshine the old guard? And exactly who is this old guard they would be outshining, the previous Kage? The dead Akatsuki? Madara? Hanzou? Why would Kishimoto try and build up the likes of those other young shinobi to the same level of Sasuke and Naruto, who are clearly on their own path to becoming far above and beyond any of the skills the other current shinobi have (as Madara and Hashirama were). In terms of Itachi overshadowing Sasuke in the sage Kabuto fight, it was to teach Sasuke he still had room to grow, and during the entire fight, Itachi was preaching different ideals he hoped would sink into Sasuke. That and Itachi it clearly more mentally strong than Sasuke, and able to handle Kabuto's tricks and mind games. There are far to many holes to poke through in these arguments, yet I really don't feel liek posting a four paragraph response, and have a line or two maybe read, only to be responded in another biased hollow manner. When the complaints are about the edo tensei kage being stronger than the Konoha 11 it really is laughable, Imean did you expect them to suddenly overpower them? Again as stated above, NOT EVERYONE IS INTENDED TO SURPASS THE OLD GENERATION. That's why Sasuke and more prominently, Naruto surpassing the previous Kage and their ideals even it actually means something rather than having under developed characters suddenly become worthy of being a Kage. This is my last post in this section, as it tends to give me headaches reading the trivial "versus" and less than creative arguments.

LightningMaster95
5th November 2013, 12:35 AM
You respond to what I say, but don't want me to respond back? I feel unloved now. I still have to respond when did Pain own Naruto? Are you talking about when Pain stabbed Naruto's hands to the ground? I mean compared to Naruto trashing all the Pain Paths minus the Yahiko one, that's pretty minor. Or are you referring to when he traps Naruto in his rage mode? Because Minato's Chakra ghost whatever knocks him back to reality which was always part of Naruto's seal so it's not really outside help, it's help from the inside literally XD we didn't know that until this fight, but it still gets him free of Pain, which leads to Naruto pwning Pain into a mountain, thus defeating him. I don't didn't really see Pain owning Naruto in their first fight besides those two moments.

I imagine Kishi gives Naruto and Sasuke outside help during these big fights so they don't look like totally unbeateble and so you can actually believe there are bad guys strong enough to defeat them and not look as uber haxxed as anyone with EMS and Rinnegan.
the fight was over when naruto was on the floor, he only beat the other pains because he had knowledge without it i doubt naruto wouldve taken out 1 let alone all 6 the kyubbi power wasnt his at the time so it counts as outside power imo. i didnt mean owning him but pain still beat him even though naruto had knowledge if it wasnt for hinata stepping in naruto wouldnt be alive or without kurama.

and when i meant dont argue its because i already went through this a couple of pages ago and dont want to start it again.
p.s. you are loved lol xD

Platinum fan.
5th November 2013, 12:44 AM
the fight was over when naruto was on the floor, he only beat the other pains because he had knowledge without it i doubt naruto wouldve taken out 1 let alone all 6 the kyubbi power wasnt his at the time so it counts as outside power imo. i didnt mean owning him but pain still beat him even though naruto had knowledge if it wasnt for hinata stepping in naruto wouldnt be alive or without kurama.

and when i meant dont argue its because i already went through this a couple of pages ago and dont want to start it again.
p.s. you are loved lol xD

Well yeah, Pain had Naruto down, but the fight wasn't over yet. To me a fight's over when one guy is knocked out. The only real fight I can think of that had to be restarted several different times was the Killer Bee vs Sasuke fight. Killer Bee must have dealt like three killing blows to him before going Eight-Tails, thankfully Karin was there. But it goes back to what I said that they give Naruto and Sasuke help so they don't look to overpowered. If Naruto and Sasuke beat all these guys 100% without help, it makes them look like mary-sues.

I see. I thought I was unwanted for a second there XD I know they probably annoy everyone on here, but I love having Naruto debates here! I look more forward to having a Naruto debate then to actually see the new chapters on the war. They are fun!

J Ken
5th November 2013, 1:10 AM
And he still hasn't shown anything interesting using the EMS unless the Kyuubi armor thing counts, but I think he was just using Susanoo normally. Anyway, either Kishi is saving the EMS's other techniques for the Naruto/Sasuke battle (he did state that the EMS gave birth to new jutsu back when Itachi revealed Madara's backstory), or he just forgot.

Tbh Sasuke's EMS started to seem obsolete when Madara showed up with the exact same powers and basically used it better then him. It was already underwhelming that Sasuke's MS abilities were just a copy of Itachi's MS abilities with a few differences but then Madara came and it was just overkill especially with all the spamming they did with the abilities.

@Mr. Fuji I know that not everyone can surpass the past but that doesn't excuse how the past generation is coming back to up shine the present ones who are the ones who really need to defend themselves and defeat those shadows of the past instead of relying on the same guys who got them in the mess they are currently in.

Locormus
5th November 2013, 1:37 AM
I've thought about this for a while, and I have to state it, yet again. But I honestly can't remember what the heck I read this week. Purged my memory after the fact apparently..

J Ken
5th November 2013, 1:41 AM
I've thought about this for a while, and I have to state it, yet again. But I honestly can't remember what the heck I read this week. Purged my memory after the fact apparently..

You didn't really miss anything monumental. In a nutshell it was just Naruto using talk no jutsu on his other half Obito.

Lorde
5th November 2013, 2:50 AM
There have been a lot of chapters lately that could easily be skipped. I mean it seems like the whole war arc after Tobi's identity was revealed has been filler with a few exceptions like Sasuke meeting the four previous Hokage. Sigh, and this war seemed so full of potential from the beginning; so many characters were revived and it seemed like we would get great battles and closure for everyone.

LightningMaster95
5th November 2013, 3:01 AM
Tbh Sasuke's EMS started to seem obsolete when Madara showed up with the exact same powers and basically used it better then him. It was already underwhelming that Sasuke's MS abilities were just a copy of Itachi's MS abilities with a few differences but then Madara came and it was just overkill especially with all the spamming they did with the abilities.

@Mr. Fuji I know that not everyone can surpass the past but that doesn't excuse how the past generation is coming back to up shine the present ones who are the ones who really need to defend themselves and defeat those shadows of the past instead of relying on the same guys who got them in the mess they are currently in.
the past generation that ur talking has very powerful people in it the hokages and madara its hard to surpass those and from the things that we've seen from minato i seriously doubt sage naruto really surpassed him(in the pain arc) and imo bsm naruto still hasnt surpassed him yet

Mr. Fuji
5th November 2013, 3:52 AM
@Tak310 I agree with you, exactly well put. It's as simple as that, the shinobi brought back will probably only be surpassed by the future Kage such as Naruto and whoever else, Gaara is also shown to have surpassed his father and show great skill against the former Mizukage. I mean sure, Kiba, Shikamaru, and all those shinobi (I'm not listing them all but they all reside in the same relative class) will surpass their parents, who are the last generation's jounin, and the konoha 11 will become just that, this current generation's crop of jounin. It's not a knock on them by any means, but to expect anything more is overzealous, they already showed their moments early in the war anyway, and even right now by helping Naruto. It just isn't worth arguing.

Also @J Ken, the proclaimed "spamming" of the ms is the same as Naruto "spamming" rasengan, or kyuubi chakra mode, or Nagato using shinra tensei. Everyone technically spams their techniques, not everyone is Hiruzen, and Orochimaru in terms of amount of jutsu they know. Furthermore, Orochimaru also stated Sasuke will probably get to Madara's level one day, thus changing and expanding on his current techniques, whether we see this is up to Kishimoto, perhaps in a final showdown with Naruto in the future. Regardless, Madara using his ms techniques so often and with such ease should be looked at as just how skilled he really is, and truly can't be matched by anyone other than Hashirama. What's the point in having such visual prowess and not using it as often as one can. I doubt Hashirama will stop "spamming" his moukuton either.

J Ken
5th November 2013, 4:05 AM
Spamming is the exact right word to describe how the Sharingan is used nowadays. I'm not talking about everyone else's spamming I'm talking solely about the MS spamming and in fact Sharingan spamming in general. Back then there were limitations to their Sharingans that opened up the variety to fight with their other techniques but nowadays the Sharingan is a stale overexposed overused ability that's limits have seized to exist.

Mr. Fuji
5th November 2013, 4:59 AM
*Seized=Ceased

In shonen upgrades are supposed to be expected, regardless how overpowered they may be. Naruto's FRS went from nearly shattering his entire arm from being able to launch it and cause utter destruction. Against Nagato/Pain he had limitations still, but with his new found powers, we don't know what those limits are if any. That being said, I don't think he needs it now that he can "spam" kyuubi chakra mode. Yes with the introduction of the EMS there are no limitations really, your "light" is never lost and it's up to you to refine said EMS at that point. I agree to a certain extent there should be a weakness, however we still aren't sure completely if there isn't one, although at this point there likely won't be one revealed unless Madara has some sort of revelation if he fights Sasuke/Naruto and exposes Sasuke. Anyway, the rate of how they use it is really not a big concern, or shouldn't be at the forefront of your thoughts. Sasuke isn't unbeatable with his EMS, and the only Uchiha that is seemingly unbeatable right now is Madara for obvious known reasons. The top tier Shinobi all have an overpowered jutsu or power to a certain extent, and as I said before in my previous post, Nagato/Pain spammed his Rinnegan and shinra tensei to no end. So what is the difference between having a handful of techniques used over and over with a Rinnegan, and then spamming a sharingan? Yes Susano'o, Amaterasu, and Tsukyomi are essentially the big three however, whether it is deemed as a weakness or flaw or not, fatigue still plays a factor and how large one's chakra reserves are to handle these powers. Madara simply has no fatigue due to the edo tensei's benefits. When you speak of "back then" it really means before they have progressed to this state and thus renders your point moot due to them already having progressed to said state and level. Anyway, I understand this will go on, however, that's my say on the matter. Arguing if a jutsu is being "spammed" makes little to no sense as everyone technically does it, and to narrow it down to one or two characters or techniques borders on the edge of biased dislike toward a certain cannonical aspect.

Jb
5th November 2013, 5:01 AM
or Nagato using shinra tensei.

Nagato didn't spam that move. If anything it was the Summoning that was spammed.

Lorde
5th November 2013, 5:11 AM
Nagato didn't spam that move. If anything it was the Summoning that was spammed.

To be fair, the Pains could only use one type of jutsu each so the Summoning spamming that Animal Path Pain did was at least justified.

J Ken
5th November 2013, 5:13 AM
I'm not saying anything about upgrades because honestly I don't care about upgrades. The Sharingan's upgrades were to be expected with the Rinnegan being the only real overkill considering all the abilities that the regular and Mangekyo Sharingans had. I'm not being biased or anything I'm just talking about the Sharingan specifically because that is what I chose to discuss. I have a logical point with "back then" because in the early parts of the series people bothered to fight without relying too much on their one specific abilities. There was more to fights then just use your best move repeatedly till you finally connect with it. I'm not arguing anything I'm expressing my view on an aspect of the story as a stand alone thing.


To be fair, the Pains could only use one type of jutsu each so the Summoning spamming that Animal Path Pain did was at least justified.

I agree. Tbh spamming is only ever a problem when the person who is spamming has a varied range of diverse jutsu to choose from and only relies on 1-3 jutsus despite their options.

LightningMaster95
5th November 2013, 5:24 AM
i know that using izanagi/izanami makes the user lose his eyesight if he has the sharingan/ms but wat about someone with ems will they go blind?
because it would suck if sasuke will be able to spam this along with amateratsu and susanno

Platinum fan.
5th November 2013, 5:26 AM
@Tak310 I agree with you, exactly well put. It's as simple as that, the shinobi brought back will probably only be surpassed by the future Kage such as Naruto and whoever else, Gaara is also shown to have surpassed his father and show great skill against the former Mizukage. I mean sure, Kiba, Shikamaru, and all those shinobi (I'm not listing them all but they all reside in the same relative class) will surpass their parents, who are the last generation's jounin, and the konoha 11 will become just that, this current generation's crop of jounin. It's not a knock on them by any means, but to expect anything more is overzealous, they already showed their moments early in the war anyway, and even right now by helping Naruto. It just isn't worth arguing.

Also @J Ken, the proclaimed "spamming" of the ms is the same as Naruto "spamming" rasengan, or kyuubi chakra mode, or Nagato using shinra tensei. Everyone technically spams their techniques, not everyone is Hiruzen, and Orochimaru in terms of amount of jutsu they know. Furthermore, Orochimaru also stated Sasuke will probably get to Madara's level one day, thus changing and expanding on his current techniques, whether we see this is up to Kishimoto, perhaps in a final showdown with Naruto in the future. Regardless, Madara using his ms techniques so often and with such ease should be looked at as just how skilled he really is, and truly can't be matched by anyone other than Hashirama. What's the point in having such visual prowess and not using it as often as one can. I doubt Hashirama will stop "spamming" his moukuton either.

How funny, I was about to address what you said to me in that long text about who the old guard was, and you already answered it here. The "old guard" as I call it was never those Dead Hokages, it was the current Jonin of the village. Of course nobody is going to top the godly Hokages. I was saying this war would have been a great place for the Konoha 11 to take charge and become elites like Kakashi and Guy. Jonin who are respected enough to lead large squads and even get a vote in the next Hokage, because right now they still aren't at that point. Even Shikamaru was basically his fathers right hand. There's nothing wrong with that, I was just saying this war could have elevated them. Some of them did get a good showing in the war, others are still ignored and I would have enjoyed seeing them help Naruto and Sasuke more in the battle with the Juubi and Obito, with their own set of skills rather then Naruto Kyuubi cloaking them. But it's pointless saying this now.

J Ken
5th November 2013, 5:29 AM
i know that using izanagi/izanami makes the user lose his eyesight if he has the sharingan/ms but wat about someone with ems will they go blind?
because it would suck if sasuke will be able to spam this along with amateratsu and susanno

I'm not sure on that. Though Itachi lost his sight despite technically having immortal eyes in the Reanimation but I'm not sure if that would be the case with the EMS itself.

Lorde
5th November 2013, 8:06 PM
i know that using izanagi/izanami makes the user lose his eyesight if he has the sharingan/ms but wat about someone with ems will they go blind?
because it would suck if sasuke will be able to spam this along with amateratsu and susanno

The EMS allows the user to use all the Mangekyo Sharingan techniques without going blind, but Izanagi/Izanami are regular Sharingan techniques so I think the user would still go blind despite having the EMS. That's just my theory and it sort of makes sense imo.

TsukiMirage
5th November 2013, 9:43 PM
http://www.mangahit.com/naruto/577/14 didnt want sasuke to go with him and wanted to do it by himself

itachi saving sasuke
http://www.mangahit.com/naruto/580/6
http://www.mangahit.com/naruto/582/3
please tell when sasuke saved itachi more times As mentioned, Itachi didn't want to reveal the truth to Sasuke.

http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/576/6
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/576/12
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/576/13

It had nothing to do with not wanting to fight with him, since as mentioned, it was Itachi who said they should fight together, in exchange for Itachi actually answering Sasuke's questions.

http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/578/13

As for saving:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/582/4
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/586/2
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/586/10

There were also the times they helped each other save themselves, like when caught in the Sound Genjutsu. Point is, that Sasuke was hardly some sort of "burden" on Itachi.


Naruto had to defeat the Pain Paths because they were attacking the village, killing the villagers while looking for him. As a soldier of Konoha it was his job to stop them. It was also already know by the higher ups by that time that the Pains were all puppets thanks to Jiraiya's code. Choji's dad even spoke of one as if it were a machine when he, Choji, and Kakashi were fighting them. Naruto had to stop them or his village would die, and it did get blown up and people did die. Nagato cheapened it by bringing them all back, but Naruto didn't know that was going to happen when he spared Nagato not giving into his urge to kill him out of revenge. The point isn't whether naruto had to do it or not, the point is that Naruto got the opportunity to get everything out of his system by taking out the Paths beforehand. He didn't have to wait years for his chance at it. And Konoha didn't learn that the Paths were such til during the actual invasion, figuring it out right before Shizune got killed. Chouza refer to Asura Path as robotic I believe, due to it's appearance. Anyway, Naruto didn't learn that the Paths were just puppets til after he had turnt Hungry Path into a toad. So he took out five of the Paths without knowing that they weren't living people.


Sasuke's vengeance on Danzo was different then the Hyuuga affair however. True a sacrifice was needed to avert war with Raikage's nation, but Neji's father volunteered to be that sacrifice for his family. Karin did not agree to be a sacrifice, she was crying for Sasuke to help her. Sasuke didn't care and struck her down with Danzo. If Karin agreed to sacrifice herself or when she got caught told Sasuke to forget about her and take the shot, that would be different. Sasuke even berates Karin for being caught after striking her and the best part about it was after Danzo had died, Obito persuades Sasuke into finishing off Karin, even though she was still barely alive and could have been saved, Sasuke without a second thought moves in to kill her. Sasuke killing Danzo did not benefit anyone long term but Sasuke himself. Kiba was right when he told Sasuke he doesn't even know what being Hokage means. Sasuke has never truly cared for anyone outside his clan. He use to care about Naruto, Sakura, and Kakashi, but look how he turned his back on them and tried to kill all three of them, and they had nothing to do with the Uchiha killings at all. You think that Konoha wouldn't have sacrificed Hizashi regardless of his opinion? There is no way they would have risked war for a single person. Not that it changes anything, but not sure how Sasuke could have saved Karin after piercing her. He was neither a medicnin or in any position to take her to one.

And Kiba was wrong. Sasuke does know what being Hokage meant because he was pretty much told just that by Hashirama hours/some moments before. Being Hokage doesn;t require one to care about the villagers beforehand, shown by Hahsirama's attempt to make Madara one and Tsunade's appointment.

Platinum fan.
5th November 2013, 10:12 PM
As mentioned, Itachi didn't want to reveal the truth to Sasuke.

http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/576/6
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/576/12
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/576/13

It had nothing to do with not wanting to fight with him, since as mentioned, it was Itachi who said they should fight together, in exchange for Itachi actually answering Sasuke's questions.

http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/578/13

As for saving:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/582/4
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/586/2
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/586/10

There were also the times they helped each other save themselves, like when caught in the Sound Genjutsu. Point is, that Sasuke was hardly some sort of "burden" on Itachi.

The point isn't whether naruto had to do it or not, the point is that Naruto got the opportunity to get everything out of his system by taking out the Paths beforehand. He didn't have to wait years for his chance at it. And Konoha didn't learn that the Paths were such til during the actual invasion, figuring it out right before Shizune got killed. Chouza refer to Asura Path as robotic I believe, due to it's appearance. Anyway, Naruto didn't learn that the Paths were just puppets til after he had turnt Hungry Path into a toad. So he took out five of the Paths without knowing that they weren't living people.

You think that Konoha wouldn't have sacrificed Hizashi regardless of his opinion? There is no way they would have risked war for a single person. Not that it changes anything, but not sure how Sasuke could have saved Karin after piercing her. He was neither a medicnin or in any position to take her to one.

And Kiba was wrong. Sasuke does know what being Hokage meant because he was pretty much told just that by Hashirama hours/some moments before. Being Hokage doesn;t require one to care about the villagers beforehand, shown by Hahsirama's attempt to make Madara one and Tsunade's appointment.

Get it out of his system, what? The Pains were soulless dolls killing the citizens of Konoha, Naruto had to defeat them or they would keep sucking out souls and killing anyone who didn't comply to them. This is not the same as Sasuke's personal vendetta against Danzo. Naruto didn't go looking for these things, they came to his village and started blowing stuff up and taking lives. Sasuke went looking for a fight to kill for his own personal reasons. And even if the Pains were real live people they would be considered Terrorist that need to be taken out for the good of the village because if not everyone in the village would have died. I really don't think Naruto took pleasure in killing these things like Sasuke did with Danzo. Naruto even has a frown on his face after beating the Yahiko Pain, compare that to Sasuke's murderous smirk after piercing Karin and Danzo.

As for Hizashi, yes he would have bee sacrificed either way, but you still can't compare that to Sasuke betraying Karin the way he did. And do you mean to tell me that a mastermind like Obito does not know how to heal someone? The Akatsuki must have had some kind of healing method for themselves. Sasuke could have just used amaterasu or Genjutsu on Danzo when he took Karin. Danzo had nothing left at that point, and since Sasuke can control who amaterasu burns, he could have saved Karin. He deemed her useless and went to kill them both.

J Ken
5th November 2013, 11:33 PM
Does anyone else find it annoying how the Shinobi alliance can only do anything with Kurama's chakra? I understand that most of them are weak without it but it's cringe worthy to see that they can only do anything by relying on Naruto. In the end it won't even really be everyone's win considering that 99% of the alliance just latched on to Naruto and Kurama's chakra to even be any kind of help.

LightningMaster95
6th November 2013, 12:13 AM
As mentioned, Itachi didn't want to reveal the truth to Sasuke.

http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/576/6
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/576/12
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/576/13

It had nothing to do with not wanting to fight with him, since as mentioned, it was Itachi who said they should fight together, in exchange for Itachi actually answering Sasuke's questions.

http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/578/13

As for saving:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/582/4
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/586/2
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/586/10

There were also the times they helped each other save themselves, like when caught in the Sound Genjutsu. Point is, that Sasuke was hardly some sort of "burden" on Itachi.

itachi knows sasuke he knew sasuke wasnt going to leave so of course they wouldve joined together

1. itachi wouldnt have needed saving if it wasnt for sasuke
2. ok thats one time he saved him
3. its not saving if he got his arm ripped off
and i never said sasuke was a burden itachi just wanted to end by himself

Lorde
6th November 2013, 3:22 AM
Does anyone else find it annoying how the Shinobi alliance can only do anything with Kurama's chakra? I understand that most of them are weak without it but it's cringe worthy to see that they can only do anything by relying on Naruto. In the end it won't even really be everyone's win considering that 99% of the alliance just latched on to Naruto and Kurama's chakra to even be any kind of help.

Naruto is the true victor of the war already imo. He's done tons of stuff to help everyone out and he'll probably manage to convert Obito into a good guy in the next chapter. He's definitely the most important fighter in the war, which is sort of iconic given that the Gokage wanted to exclude him from the war by keeping him on Kumogakure's turtle. Had he not escaped, the Alliance would've lost a long time ago.

J Ken
6th November 2013, 3:32 AM
Naruto is the true victor of the war already imo. He's done tons of stuff to help everyone out and he'll probably manage to convert Obito into a good guy in the next chapter. He's definitely the most important fighter in the war, which is sort of iconic given that the Gokage wanted to exclude him from the war by keeping him on Kumogakure's turtle. Had he not escaped, the Alliance would've lost a long time ago.

Imo the Alliance lost the war as soon as they started to over rely on the past Kages and Naruto. I mean at this point the alliance are just a bunch of puppets being powered by Kurama's chakra as much as it pains me to say this considering some of those alliance shinobi are favorites of mine. Some of them are showing their worth outside of Kurama's chakra but it's still sad to see how utterly useless they are at this point.

LightningMaster95
6th November 2013, 3:44 AM
Imo the Alliance lost the war as soon as they started to over rely on the past Kages and Naruto. I mean at this point the alliance are just a bunch of puppets being powered by Kurama's chakra as much as it pains me to say this considering some of those alliance shinobi are favorites of mine. Some of them are showing their worth outside of Kurama's chakra but it's still sad to see how utterly useless they are at this point.

the alliance lost the war when madara was revived :p no one could beat edo madara (imo hashirama cant beat him)

Lorde
6th November 2013, 7:12 AM
The new chapter is out and it was the easiest one to read in a long time; no complicated panel placements or too much dialogue to follow. I liked that Obito at least attempted to attack Naruto at first rather than submit to the talk no jutsu. However those visions that he saw and the fact that he seemed to regret everything convince me that he's a good guy now, or at least neutral now that he's been beaten. Time for Madara to show up and become the final villain. Sigh...

HoennMaster
6th November 2013, 8:17 AM
Finally....almost done. Just have to finish off Madara and we are good.

LightningMaster95
6th November 2013, 1:21 PM
two things about this chapter
it was going in the right direction but went downhill after the 3rd page
rin's face on page 9 was creepier than madara's face when he sensed hashirama, 1st it was i am watching you and now her face, she looked like a crazy stalker

XanderCage
6th November 2013, 3:55 PM
Naruto now has the ability to punch people into flashbacks, cool.

Platinum fan.
6th November 2013, 7:03 PM
Nothing really to say. I liked the part where Obito went to shake Naruto's hand and turns it into a choke, but beyond that it was just Obito returning to sanity really. This war has been horrible for me, but I'm tired of bashing it so I'll just say what I did enjoy. I liked the part where it looked like the original Obito, the cool one, punched Six Paths Obito in the face. Really Obito, what would Rin say if she saw you like this? They really like playing that Hokage card on characters wanting to reach it. I also enjoyed all those scenes of everyone in the Kyuubi cloak. They all look like they were having a rough time in the toilet or something. Naruto should get all credit for this war. Without his magical plot powered Kyuubi cloak, the average ninja would not have lasted this long or make a difference. So looks like Obito's been defeated. Hopefully Madara just died offscreen so the war can end.

RIN IS ALWAYS WATCHING YOU!

Lorde
6th November 2013, 7:30 PM
Rin's face in this chapter was creepy (was that on purpose?) but I did like that the younger Obito was the one who did most of the talk no jutsu in this chapter even if it was just a hallucination. I admire Obito's willpower; he withstood the talk no jutsu for longer than I thought and at least he attempted to attack Naruto before he was overwhelmed with feels.

J Ken
6th November 2013, 8:33 PM
Tbh I'm not really looking forward to finishing off Madara. He's kinda boring considering he has no real connection with Naruto or anyone who isn't Hashirma or Obito and is just too perfect.

LightningMaster95
7th November 2013, 3:30 AM
Tbh I'm not really looking forward to finishing off Madara. He's kinda boring considering he has no real connection with Naruto or anyone who isn't Hashirma or Obito and is just too perfect.

ive enjoyed madara more when he battled because he demolished everyone who wasnt hashirama, i guess he no real connection to naruto but everything thats going on right now is the fault of hashirama and madara. (imo edo madara can beat anyone)

this is what i think is going to happen
madara kills obito, madara gains control of the tailed beast(1-7 and part of the 8 tails and gets the 9 tails chakra from the alliance), gives it to the tree, infinite tsyukomi,gets talk no jutsu by hashirama tobirama naruto and the gokages before he can cast it

Platinum fan.
7th November 2013, 6:05 PM
Tbh I'm not really looking forward to finishing off Madara. He's kinda boring considering he has no real connection with Naruto or anyone who isn't Hashirma or Obito and is just too perfect.

Madara feels last minute. They built up Obito/Tobi as Madara just to keep the name relevant so when they pulled this Edo Tensei madness you would remember that our main villain was indeed suppose to be Madara Uchiha, just not the one you expected. Madara's main story with Hashirama is his main story and sadly I just don't care about it. Not because I don't find it interesting, but because they told it right in the middle of the war with both characters never truly appearing until now. I know I bash the character but on some level I do care about Obito. That Kakashi special was perfect, in it's timing and place between Part 1 and 2 and made me care for the Kakashi, Obito, and Rin story so when Tobi revealed himself as Obito, despite how obvious it was, I actually felt something for the character. With Madara, I don't care at all. We only get little tibits on him and Hashirama in the series until we hear their backstory...which is in the middle of a war with tons of crap going on. Now a lot of villains are like this, the difference is these villains are connected to Naruto, Sasuke, Gaara, or someone relevant in the series. The Madara vs Hashirama duel is literally two dead corpses fighting a war that ended years ago before most of the characters were even born. Oh well, I'm just going to shut up and see where this ride takes us. I hope Madara is finished of quickly. I want to see Naruto vs Sasuke already.

Lorde
7th November 2013, 7:34 PM
Tbh I'm not really looking forward to finishing off Madara. He's kinda boring considering he has no real connection with Naruto or anyone who isn't Hashirma or Obito and is just too perfect.

Yeah I don't really care for Madara either, although he's worshiped by some of the fandom. I wonder if he'll fall victim to the talk no jutsu as well, or if we'll finally see Naruto take action into his own hands by literally beating him to death. I can hope at least because it would be nice for the main villain to die rather than get converted into a good guy.

Shneak
8th November 2013, 12:49 AM
SO CLOSE. Obito faking out Naruto's handshake with a strangle was awesome but it was probably the last we'll see of the villain. I do kind of like the imagery in this chapter regarding the hands and Obito's illusions (except for the two pages of awkward faces.)

LightningMaster95
8th November 2013, 4:58 AM
Yeah I don't really care for Madara either, although he's worshiped by some of the fandom. I wonder if he'll fall victim to the talk no jutsu as well, or if we'll finally see Naruto take action into his own hands by literally beating him to death. I can hope at least because it would be nice for the main villain to die rather than get converted into a good guy.
why shouldnt they praise madara since obito isnt the ten tails jinchuriki anymore it makes edo madara the strongest character right now and most likely he'll be talk no jutsu by naruto and hashirama and honestly i hate that madara is going to turn into a nice guy
i wonder who is going to seal him naruto and sasuke cant do it i guess theres hashi and gaara

Locormus
8th November 2013, 4:30 PM
Let it end! :'(

Good lord let this end! I've seen people hate, but this is honestly the last straw for me. If Obito lives and gets redeemed then there really is no point behind this Buddhist manga. Gah!

TsukiMirage
8th November 2013, 6:13 PM
Get it out of his system, what? The Pains were soulless dolls killing the citizens of Konoha, Naruto had to defeat them or they would keep sucking out souls and killing anyone who didn't comply to them. This is not the same as Sasuke's personal vendetta against Danzo. Naruto didn't go looking for these things, they came to his village and started blowing stuff up and taking lives. Sasuke went looking for a fight to kill for his own personal reasons. And even if the Pains were real live people they would be considered Terrorist that need to be taken out for the good of the village because if not everyone in the village would have died. I really don't think Naruto took pleasure in killing these things like Sasuke did with Danzo. Naruto even has a frown on his face after beating the Yahiko Pain, compare that to Sasuke's murderous smirk after piercing Karin and Danzo. Naruto had no idea that they were just "dolls" when he began fighting them, and had no issue with "killing" them. There was no attempt to talk the Paths down. So Naruto eventually deciding that he no longer needed revenge after all that fighting does not hold the same sway as if he had decided that before he had fought. And we're talking about a fight that happen after Konoha was destroyed and the remaining citizens were no longer being targeted. Heck, Pain was about to leave before Naruto appeared. And this was personal for Naruto. The entire reason he even began the Sage Training was so that he could get revenge for Jiraiya. The fact that Pain attacked before he had completed training doesn't change that. If anything, that's apart of the reason. Naruto was specifically helped in getting the revenge that he wanted soon after the event happen, whereas Sasuke was denied any attempt at revenge for years.

The terrorist claim doesn't really help your argument. As mentioned, Pain was leaving when Naruto challenged him, so no one else (except perhaps Tsunade upon attempting to sop him) would have died. And Danzo was just as much of a threat to the village, while Karin was technically a terrorist too. In that regard, none of them desired not to be kill.


As for Hizashi, yes he would have bee sacrificed either way, but you still can't compare that to Sasuke betraying Karin the way he did. And do you mean to tell me that a mastermind like Obito does not know how to heal someone? The Akatsuki must have had some kind of healing method for themselves. Sasuke could have just used amaterasu or Genjutsu on Danzo when he took Karin. Danzo had nothing left at that point, and since Sasuke can control who amaterasu burns, he could have saved Karin. He deemed her useless and went to kill them both. All I said was that such things, as sacrificing one person for the greater good, would be a needed ability. Not sure why you would think Obito would know anything about healing, when he's basically Zetsu goo. And Akatsuki's method of healing was Kakuzu's sewing, as we saw with Deidara and Hidan.

Danzo still had an active Sharingan, potentially either Kotoamatsukami or Izanagi. Genjutsu would have been tricky, as we were shown, and Amaterasu would have been a potential waste with an Izanagi in play.


itachi knows sasuke he knew sasuke wasnt going to leave so of course they wouldve joined together

1. itachi wouldnt have needed saving if it wasnt for sasuke
2. ok thats one time he saved him
3. its not saving if he got his arm ripped off
and i never said sasuke was a burden itachi just wanted to end by himself Sasuke not leaving til his questions got answered has nothing to do with Itachi asking him to fight. Sasuke wasn't there to fight, all he wanted was to talk with Itachi, which mean he would have stay back if told.

1. Itachi would have been affected by that technique regardless, and would have been defenseless had Sasuke not stopped Kabuto.
3. Better then all of Itachi being devoured.

That's what this discussion sprang from.

Well, that was some chapter. I have to say I honestly wished that Naruto had just converted Obito on the first try, because a bunch of pages of Naruto mindf'ing Obito just to get to the same conclusion was much worst. But fortunately, Obito looks like he's finally done for, so maybe we can get back to a real villain like Madara.

Lorde
8th November 2013, 7:30 PM
Let it end! :'(

Good lord let this end! I've seen people hate, but this is honestly the last straw for me. If Obito lives and gets redeemed then there really is no point behind this Buddhist manga. Gah!

He could live and not side with the Alliance and just remain neutral. I think he's realized the error of his ways, but I don't see what use he could be to the others. I mean he lost the Juubi and only has his old powers at the moment. It's not like he could stop Madara and honestly, I'd rather he left on his own than team up with the good guys.

LightningMaster95
8th November 2013, 8:21 PM
He could live and not side with the Alliance and just remain neutral. I think he's realized the error of his ways, but I don't see what use he could be to the others. I mean he lost the Juubi and only has his old powers at the moment. It's not like he could stop Madara and honestly, I'd rather he left on his own than team up with the good guys.
no kishimoto needs to actually kill the villians without making them turn good + stop bringing people back from the dead just to be sealed later on and ruining their death

Wosha
8th November 2013, 8:37 PM
I just want it to stop, it doesn't make sense anymore. I read it out of obligation now, I've been following for too long to drop out so close to the end. But it's almost like a torture. At some point it was so bad it was funny, but it's not even worth a laugh anymore. If it finishes on a happy ending, I swear...

Lorde
8th November 2013, 8:45 PM
no kishimoto needs to actually kill the villians without making them turn good + stop bringing people back from the dead just to be sealed later on and ruining their death

But Obito isn't a threat any more so why kill him? Naruto did his whole talk no jutsu thing and I can't see him actually killing Obito after that. Madara is the one who needs to die, not Obito. He's the catalyst for all of this.

J Ken
8th November 2013, 9:16 PM
If anything I hope Madara at least takes out Hashirama to put an end to their love story rivalry. I mean as boring as Madara is I kinda feel bad for the guy considering how he ended up the way he was just because he was always as a sacrificial lamb for Hashi's rise to dominance.

On the matter of Obito I think he will leave to the Kamui dimension and have one last talk with Kakashi before either disappearing for good or dying. Even though he only has his old powers now he would still pwn the entire alliance since Kakashi was their only means of effectively countering him to begin with.

LightningMaster95
8th November 2013, 9:34 PM
But Obito isn't a threat any more so why kill him? Naruto did his whole talk no jutsu thing and I can't see him actually killing Obito after that. Madara is the one who needs to die, not Obito. He's the catalyst for all of this.
because every villain in the series has become a joke. why? because they turn good than die after being talk no jutsu by naruto and it doesnt have to be naruto that kills him it could sasuke kakashi or madara my bet is on madara since hes going to be the final villain in this arc

Lorde
8th November 2013, 10:13 PM
because every villain in the series has become a joke. why? because they turn good than die after being talk no jutsu by naruto and it doesnt have to be naruto that kills him it could sasuke kakashi or madara my bet is on madara since hes going to be the final villain in this arc

I'd lose so much respect for Kakashi if he killed Obito after all of this. I mean isn't it bad enough that he had to kill Rin? Killing his other former teammate would be just plain sad imo.

-Raiga-
9th November 2013, 1:39 AM
because every villain in the series has become a joke.

Having a personality and story as opposed to "crazy evil guy who wrecks stuff" is being a joke? You realize there are probably 20,000 other manga that follow the generic formula you're describing. There is NOTHING wrong with Kishimoto actually giving his main character, the kid who's going to run a village, a mindset of a mature individual who realizes there are more ways to deal with a situation than killing people who you disagree with.

Jb
9th November 2013, 2:48 AM
People that start formulating years long plans, while gathering a group of high powered criminals that kidnap people from their home with the ultimate goal of world domination should be destroyed on the spot though.

I mean, I see what you're saying but when the toughest of villains can be talked into submission, it's kinda boring.

J Ken
9th November 2013, 2:54 AM
People that start formulating years long plans, while gathering a group of high powered criminals that kidnap people from their home with the ultimate goal of world domination should be destroyed on the spot though.

I mean, I see what you're saying but when the toughest of villains can be talked into submission, it's kinda boring.

Especially when to this day the only of those said criminals that died without redemption were the ones that didn't have as much of a impact as the bigger bads.

LightningMaster95
9th November 2013, 3:25 AM
I'd lose so much respect for Kakashi if he killed Obito after all of this. I mean isn't it bad enough that he had to kill Rin? Killing his other former teammate would be just plain sad imo.
in kakashi's defense he never intended on killing her she chose to kill her self iirc(need to read that chapter again) also there is sasuke and madara that can kill him its most likely going to be madara since he dissapeared for a couple of chapters now and will come back by killing him
@raiga a villian that makes the world go into a world war tried to put them under a genjutsu stopped by a simple speech, yea please explain how that isnt a joke and i never questioned naruto's maturity

Platinum fan.
9th November 2013, 3:52 PM
There's no place for Obito in the world now. Killing him off would at least reunite him with his true love Rin. They can watch each other forever without ever having to blink. I'd be surprised if Orochimaru didn't take advantage of the situation and try and steal Obito's body while he's weak like this. Yeah, I didn't forget about Orochimaru. This could be his only chance, with a Six Paths body he can do anything. If they go that route. Still hoping Madara is dealt with quickly. I'm so over the Madara character, and evil Uchiha's in general. It feels like every major super villain of this series minus Orochimaru had a Uchiha weapon be it Sharingan or Rinnegan.

RIN IS ALWAYS WATCHING YOU!

p96822
9th November 2013, 3:55 PM
I hope Madara make Obito life even more painful then even before.

J Ken
9th November 2013, 4:01 PM
Before Madara goes down I hope he takes Hashirama with him. It's the least they can do considering how they are the cause for all of this.

Lorde
9th November 2013, 8:06 PM
Before Madara goes down I hope he takes Hashirama with him. It's the least they can do considering how they are the cause for all of this.

That would only excite the Madara x Hashirama shippers lol. But seriously, I don't care how Hashirama dies. It's bound to happen since I'm sure Orochimaru will stop the Edo Tensei eventually anyway. If Kishi wants Madara to take his boyfriend back to the grave with him then fine, whatever. It makes no difference in the grand scheme of things imo.

J Ken
9th November 2013, 9:37 PM
That would only excite the Madara x Hashirama shippers lol. But seriously, I don't care how Hashirama dies. It's bound to happen since I'm sure Orochimaru will stop the Edo Tensei eventually anyway. If Kishi wants Madara to take his boyfriend back to the grave with him then fine, whatever. It makes no difference in the grand scheme of things imo.

Agreed. At this point with Obito defeated this war is basically over. Imo even though Madara is the "final villain" I still don't consider him the main villain of the series itself. I mean yes he was a factor in Obito's change but after he died it's obvious that Obito's actions were those of his own with no real intention on reviving Madara. If it hadn't been for Kabuto's meddling we probably would have been spared of all this extra "drama" and we probably would have just had Naruto defeat the Masked Madara and learn he was Obito then TnJ him and have him revive the entire Alliance.

LightningMaster95
9th November 2013, 11:57 PM
Agreed. At this point with Obito defeated this war is basically over. Imo even though Madara is the "final villain" I still don't consider him the main villain of the series itself. I mean yes he was a factor in Obito's change but after he died it's obvious that Obito's actions were those of his own with no real intention on reviving Madara. If it hadn't been for Kabuto's meddling we probably would have been spared of all this extra "drama" and we probably would have just had Naruto defeat the Masked Madara and learn he was Obito then TnJ him and have him revive the entire Alliance.

well without madara, naruto wouldve never able to go to bijuu mode since kurama started to get along with him to stop madara and iirc he was going to revive him but wouldve betrayed him because he wanted to use the eye of the moon plan for something else

TsukiMirage
10th November 2013, 4:03 AM
The Kyuubi had already fallen to Naruto's side before the appearance of the real Madara. Remember, the Hachibi pointed out that the Kyuubi hadn't been absorbing any of Naruto's chakra, thus allowing him to use the cloak form the entire time despite the previous warning.

And I wouldn't put much stock in Tobi's previous talk about reviving someone, because all that went out the window with Obito's reveal. Doesn't even make any sense with the new narrative, because Obito had no reason or need to revive Madara, the whole plan was doable without him.

-Raiga-
10th November 2013, 7:49 PM
People that start formulating years long plans, while gathering a group of high powered criminals that kidnap people from their home with the ultimate goal of world domination should be destroyed on the spot though.

I mean, I see what you're saying but when the toughest of villains can be talked into submission, it's kinda boring.

Obito isn't a villian though, that's what this plot is driving home. To be honest, when you look at all the people Obito gathered(who obviously weren't on the same page to begin with(itachi)), Kisame and mabye Hidan were the only ones who really just plain liked being villians. Obito's just a 10 year old kid who got locked in a hole and couldn't develop a sense of right and wrong logically.


@raiga a villian that makes the world go into a world war tried to put them under a genjutsu stopped by a simple speech, yea please explain how that isnt a joke and i never questioned naruto's maturity

Two things, one, I was unaware a two CHAPTER debate was a "simple speech".

Secondly, the only reason Obito became a villian is because he's too chicken to admit his own shortcomings. He's using 3rd grader logic to justify his actions, it's only logical they can be debunked just as simply by someone as mature as Naruto(see, I actually included maturity for a reason)

Lorde
10th November 2013, 8:08 PM
Agreed. At this point with Obito defeated this war is basically over. Imo even though Madara is the "final villain" I still don't consider him the main villain of the series itself. I mean yes he was a factor in Obito's change but after he died it's obvious that Obito's actions were those of his own with no real intention on reviving Madara. If it hadn't been for Kabuto's meddling we probably would have been spared of all this extra "drama" and we probably would have just had Naruto defeat the Masked Madara and learn he was Obito then TnJ him and have him revive the entire Alliance.

Imo, it would've been anti-climactic for Obito to be the final villain which is why we kind of need Madara. At least his dreams aren't motivated by a dead girl; he seems unbalanced and selfish, but for other reasons and at the very least I hope talk no jutsu has no effect on him and that Naruto actually kills him somehow since he's the real threat at the moment.

LightningMaster95
11th November 2013, 1:25 AM
Two things, one, I was unaware a two CHAPTER debate was a "simple speech".

Secondly, the only reason Obito became a villian is because he's too chicken to admit his own shortcomings. He's using 3rd grader logic to justify his actions, it's only logical they can be debunked just as simply by someone as mature as Naruto(see, I actually included maturity for a reason)
the speech was pretty much remember the ninja u were and rin wouldnt be proud of the person u became
so wat ur saying is that madara had nothing to do with obito becoming a villain and the reason he became a villain was because he didnt tell rin he loved her

J Ken
11th November 2013, 1:31 AM
Imo, it would've been anti-climactic for Obito to be the final villain which is why we kind of need Madara. At least his dreams aren't motivated by a dead girl; he seems unbalanced and selfish, but for other reasons and at the very least I hope talk no jutsu has no effect on him and that Naruto actually kills him somehow since he's the real threat at the moment.

As much as I like Obito I gotta agree with you here. Though personally my favorite Madara was always the Masked One we had before the big reveal.

LightningMaster95
11th November 2013, 1:59 AM
As much as I like Obito I gotta agree with you here. Though personally my favorite Madara was always the Masked One we had before the big reveal.

that obito was the best i wishes they wouldve kept him like that from the time itachi died to when the war started obito was a badass

Platinum fan.
11th November 2013, 3:27 PM
As much as I like Obito I gotta agree with you here. Though personally my favorite Madara was always the Masked One we had before the big reveal.

Before "Madara" was revealed as Obito, he felt like final villain material to me. He was ruthless, didn't care about peace or anyone just his goal and would do anything to achieve it. He manipulated some of the worlds most powerful ninjas and worked in the shadows of the Akatsuki until they were down to just Kisame and Zetsu, and his presence was always a big deal. It wasn't until the mask came off that he became mortal and had human emotions again. This villain was way cooler then the actual Madara Uchiha and his never ending battle with Hashirama that has now become Naruto's generation problem too.

J Ken
11th November 2013, 4:41 PM
Before "Madara" was revealed as Obito, he felt like final villain material to me. He was ruthless, didn't care about peace or anyone just his goal and would do anything to achieve it. He manipulated some of the worlds most powerful ninjas and worked in the shadows of the Akatsuki until they were down to just Kisame and Zetsu, and his presence was always a big deal. It wasn't until the mask came off that he became mortal and had human emotions again. This villain was way cooler then the actual Madara Uchiha and his never ending battle with Hashirama that has now become Naruto's generation problem too.

I agree wholeheartedly. The Masked Man felt like an untouchable force who's presence and actions made you actually anticipate his next move. The way he was he seemed like the perfect villain to be killed without redemption but that invincible aura as you said vanished as soon as the mask came off. The thing with Obito and Madara being that their emotional problems and reason for their actions just make it impossible to look forward to what they will do considering we know what they will do already.

Lorde
11th November 2013, 8:19 PM
I didn't really see Tobi as invincible to be honest. He was almost untouchable because of his intangibility, but Konan proved that he had a weakness and after that point he didn't seem that powerful. Even as a strategist, most of his plans failed hence why he had to start a war just to finish collecting the remaining Bijuu which of course failed to happen also.

J Ken
11th November 2013, 8:55 PM
I didn't really see Tobi as invincible to be honest. He was almost untouchable because of his intangibility, but Konan proved that he had a weakness and after that point he didn't seem that powerful. Even as a strategist, most of his plans failed hence why he had to start a war just to finish collecting the remaining Bijuu which of course failed to happen also.

You have a point. Let me rephrase, I enjoyed how even though we knew his plan his true motives and how he carried his actions were still partly shrouded in mystery. Imo while the real Madara was much more of a powerhouse then Tobi was Tobi seemed more interesting as a villain then him.

LightningMaster95
12th November 2013, 2:09 AM
I didn't really see Tobi as invincible to be honest. He was almost untouchable because of his intangibility, but Konan proved that he had a weakness and after that point he didn't seem that powerful. Even as a strategist, most of his plans failed hence why he had to start a war just to finish collecting the remaining Bijuu which of course failed to happen also.

but remeber konan was only able to land hits on tobi because she studied the way he fights if she didnt have no knowledge im 100% sure she wouldve never landed a hit on him
the only person that proved to go up against without having knowledge or a sharingan/ms and land a hit was minato

Lorde
12th November 2013, 2:33 AM
but remeber konan was only able to land hits on tobi because she studied the way he fights if she didnt have no knowledge im 100% sure she wouldve never landed a hit on him
the only person that proved to go up against without having knowledge or a sharingan/ms and land a hit was minato

I don't think it really makes a difference. Sure Konan was in a position where she could observe how Tobi's jutsu worked, but it doesn't lessen her accomplishment. And Minato is a genius, or perhaps I should say was because I don't like the way he's been portrayed ever since he was revived. He just seems watered-down and ordinary now.

LightningMaster95
12th November 2013, 3:01 AM
I don't think it really makes a difference. Sure Konan was in a position where she could observe how Tobi's jutsu worked, but it doesn't lessen her accomplishment. And Minato is a genius, or perhaps I should say was because I don't like the way he's been portrayed ever since he was revived. He just seems watered-down and ordinary now.

i think it does make the accomplishment less worthy because she needed info beforehand to land hits and even with it she still lost but its still a good accomplishment
really u think hes watered down? because to me hes living up to his hype as being unsurpassed;keeping up with obito as a jinchuriki even though naruto and sasuke are having trouble, saving an entire army multiple times, theres more but im on my ipod and i hate typing with it
edo minato is between kage level and god mode

J Ken
12th November 2013, 3:09 AM
i think it does make the accomplishment less worthy because she needed info beforehand to land hits and even with it she still lost but its still a good accomplishment
really u think hes watered down? because to me hes living up to his hype as being unsurpassed;keeping up with obito as a jinchuriki even though naruto and sasuke are having trouble, saving an entire army multiple times, theres more but im on my ipod and i hate typing with it
edo minato is between kage level and god mode

Personally Minato had just as much trouble as Naruto and Sasuke maybe even more considering he was fighting with the belief that he was still immortal and didn't realize that wasn't the case until after he lost his arm.

LightningMaster95
12th November 2013, 3:25 AM
Personally Minato had just as much trouble as Naruto and Sasuke maybe even more considering he was fighting with the belief that he was still immortal and didn't realize that wasn't the case until after he lost his arm.

but after he realized it he became more serious he wasnt having that much of a hard time facing obito while naruto and sasuke had trouble the whole time

Platinum fan.
12th November 2013, 4:09 PM
I don't think it really makes a difference. Sure Konan was in a position where she could observe how Tobi's jutsu worked, but it doesn't lessen her accomplishment. And Minato is a genius, or perhaps I should say was because I don't like the way he's been portrayed ever since he was revived. He just seems watered-down and ordinary now.

Minato isn't consistent. At times I thought he looked very Mary-sues and then there were times were I think he's not as great as they made him out to be. I loved him in the Kakashi special and I greatly enjoyed his relationship with Kushina, and of course when Naruto first met him during the Pain fight. What made me indifferent to him was Edo Tensei Minato. Minato going Kyuubi Mode just makes him look like a big Naruto rip-off despite being his father, and it's basically saying Naruto's Kyuubi Mode is better then Minato's regular base so lets give him a Kyuubi Mode too, to make up for that. He still has his own abilities but why give him the Kyuubi Mode Cloak? I thought he was famous for that awesome teleporting between Kunai power, so why make him a Naruto rip-off with the Kyuubi power? There's too many of the same kind of omega powers going around the main players. Sharingan, Rinnegan, and now we have multiple Kyuubi powers running around too, even though there is only one Nine-Tailed Fox.

Lorde
12th November 2013, 8:02 PM
I suppose I should just be glad that Minato still gets to do stuff even if he's powered up by Kurama's chakra. I mean poor Hiruzen barely shows up and he hasn't used any interesting jutsu since he was revived. At least Minato, Hashirama, and Tobirama have been doing stuff frequently.

LightningMaster95
13th November 2013, 12:17 AM
Minato isn't consistent. At times I thought he looked very Mary-sues and then there were times were I think he's not as great as they made him out to be. I loved him in the Kakashi special and I greatly enjoyed his relationship with Kushina, and of course when Naruto first met him during the Pain fight. What made me indifferent to him was Edo Tensei Minato. Minato going Kyuubi Mode just makes him look like a big Naruto rip-off despite being his father, and it's basically saying Naruto's Kyuubi Mode is better then Minato's regular base so lets give him a Kyuubi Mode too, to make up for that. He still has his own abilities but why give him the Kyuubi Mode Cloak? I thought he was famous for that awesome teleporting between Kunai power, so why make him a Naruto rip-off with the Kyuubi power? There's too many of the same kind of omega powers going around the main players. Sharingan, Rinnegan, and now we have multiple Kyuubi powers running around too, even though there is only one Nine-Tailed Fox.
to be fair naruto is the rip off who's power comes from someone else and never made anything unique himself(except the sexy jutsu technique)
shadow clones-tobirama
rasengan-minato
sage mode-toads/jiraiya
nature manipulation-kakashi
nine tails chakra- minato/kushina/jiraiya/kurama
BM minato>BM naruto

Platinum fan.
13th November 2013, 2:01 AM
to be fair naruto is the rip off who's power comes from someone else and never made anything unique himself(except the sexy jutsu technique)
shadow clones-tobirama
rasengan-minato
sage mode-toads/jiraiya
nature manipulation-kakashi
nine tails chakra- minato/kushina/jiraiya/kurama
BM minato>BM naruto

Rasengan and Sage Mode are the only two that stand out from your list.

Shadow Clones is a Jutsu any high level ninja can use, even Temari seemed capable of doing so when she was a Genin. Several ninjas can use it.
Nature Manipulation I believe is a requirement to become a Jonin so how does Naruto knowing how to do that make him a rip off of Kakashi? Probably every single Jonin can do it. Sasuke can do it too.

Nine Tails Chakra. Nobody but Naruto should be able to use this power. Minato could not do this when he was alive, he suddenly comes back and can go Kyuubi just like Naruto because he has his Chakra sealed in him? At best he should be a watered down version because Naruto has the real beast in him. He even looks just like Kyuubi Naruto. At least when Naruto does the Rasengan and Sage Mode, he has his own twist on it to make it a little different. Naruto needs a clone for his Rasengan and he has different versions of Rasengan too. He didn't create it, that's true but his stand out. His Sage Mode is also different then Jiraiya's as well. He can't use the toads the same way Jiraiya can because of Kyuubi. Minato's Kyuubi Mode is just like Naruto's, nothing different about it. Why give him this? I can only assume regular Minato wasn't cheap enough for this fight, which is strange considering his own talents were at one point viewed as the best Hokage, though Hashirama has taken that title.

Jb
13th November 2013, 2:31 AM
From all the walls of text here one can discern that Kishi is a terrible writer.

LightningMaster95
13th November 2013, 2:48 AM
Rasengan and Sage Mode are the only two that stand out from your list.

Shadow Clones is a Jutsu any high level ninja can use, even Temari seemed capable of doing so when she was a Genin. Several ninjas can use it.
Nature Manipulation I believe is a requirement to become a Jonin so how does Naruto knowing how to do that make him a rip off of Kakashi? Probably every single Jonin can do it. Sasuke can do it too.

Nine Tails Chakra. Nobody but Naruto should be able to use this power. Minato could not do this when he was alive, he suddenly comes back and can go Kyuubi just like Naruto because he has his Chakra sealed in him? At best he should be a watered down version because Naruto has the real beast in him. He even looks just like Kyuubi Naruto. At least when Naruto does the Rasengan and Sage Mode, he has his own twist on it to make it a little different. Naruto needs a clone for his Rasengan and he has different versions of Rasengan too. He didn't create it, that's true but his stand out. His Sage Mode is also different then Jiraiya's as well. He can't use the toads the same way Jiraiya can because of Kyuubi. Minato's Kyuubi Mode is just like Naruto's, nothing different about it. Why give him this? I can only assume regular Minato wasn't cheap enough for this fight, which is strange considering his own talents were at one point viewed as the best Hokage, though Hashirama has taken that title.
they both have kurama inside them its just that naruto has the good kurama inside of him while minato has the evil part,if minato was able to take down kurama when he wasnt weakened i can see him getting kcm mode easily and for bijuu mode minato is a like able person so imo kurama probably came around to like him easily

what if naruto beats madara by using the sexy technique :o i would be laughing if kishi does that

Lorde
13th November 2013, 2:53 AM
From all the walls of text here one can discern that Kishi is a terrible writer.

Well it's true. His writing has never been his strongest point in my opinion, but he's gotten worse ever since Part 2 began and some of the recent chapters seem more like fan fiction than stuff I would expect a mangaka to write about. I think a lot of people feel strongly about the repetition of certain techniques in this series; it's like Kishi can't think of anything other than Shadow Clones, Sage Jutsu, Rasengan or Kurama's chakra when it comes to Naruto, which of course gets old really fast.


they both have kurama inside them

http://31.media.tumblr.com/7d6a4f8d4f5b4d1b7bd23d5742d3d6cc/tumblr_mqrucxDqyf1r086i8o1_500.gif

Please excuse my moment of immaturity.

Platinum fan.
13th November 2013, 3:07 AM
they both have kurama inside them its just that naruto has the good kurama inside of him while minato has the evil part,if minato was able to take down kurama when he wasnt weakened i can see him getting kcm mode easily and for bijuu mode minato is a like able person so imo kurama probably came around to like him easily

what if naruto beats madara by using the sexy technique :o i would be laughing if kishi does that

Really? I thought that was just Chakra. So even if Obito and his gang captured Naruto, then they wouldn't have gotten all of Kyuubi's because half of it was with Minato? I smell plotholes. It still doesn't excuse Kyuubi Minato, as Kyuubi form was one of the few things Naruto alone could do, but whatever.

As far as the writing of Naruto goes, the fact that half these guys call themselves ninjas is laughable by itself. This is basically Dragon Ball Z with slight ninja traits in it. And I'd actually laugh if they used the sexy technique to beat Madara. It's like the only thing they haven't thrown at him yet.

J Ken
13th November 2013, 3:17 AM
Does anyone here remember Yamato? Me neither.

Lorde
13th November 2013, 3:20 AM
Does anyone here remember Yamato?

That name is vaguely familiar. :p But seriously, I remember when he used to have some relevancy and actually contributed to things, but it's sad just how far his character has sunk. At this rate I honestly expect the other characters to just forget about him; he'll probably stay attached to the Hashirama statue thing at Obito's hideout for the rest of his life.

Platinum fan.
13th November 2013, 3:20 AM
Does anyone here remember Yamato? Me neither.

He gets a random mention on here every few months along with Anko on whether their alive or not. The question is does Kishi remember them?

p96822
13th November 2013, 4:04 AM
I thought Yamato is still stuck in stone still making Zesu?

XeroBanshee
13th November 2013, 7:20 AM
He was merged with that giant summon that consumes the Tailed Beasts. And that summon is no more since ya know, it's now the Juubi. So with that being said, it is a very high chance he is dead.