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TsukiMirage
13th November 2013, 9:47 AM
... How did Kakashi know Sasuke was back to being good? Anyway, annoyed that Obito got saved by Minato, and was the focus of the entire chapter again. On the otherhand, it was nice to see the Bijuu's reaction to Naruto saving them, and Sasuke going after the fallen Obito, as oppose to the Bijuus as some believed he would. Average chapter.

LightningMaster95
13th November 2013, 1:03 PM
http://31.media.tumblr.com/7d6a4f8d4f5b4d1b7bd23d5742d3d6cc/tumblr_mqrucxDqyf1r086i8o1_500.gif

Please excuse my moment of immaturity.

http://www.mangahit.com/naruto/643/2
http://www.mangahit.com/naruto/645/9
go ahead while reading this

LightningMaster95
13th November 2013, 2:36 PM
... How did Kakashi know Sasuke was back to being good? Anyway, annoyed that Obito got saved by Minato, and was the focus of the entire chapter again. On the otherhand, it was nice to see the Bijuu's reaction to Naruto saving them, and Sasuke going after the fallen Obito, as oppose to the Bijuus as some believed he would. Average chapter.

i thought kakashi was able to see everything that was going on because his and obito's vision are connected and saw sasuke fighting obito. i wasnt annoyed about minato saving him because minato is his sensei so of course he would stop them from killing each other. the thing i didnt like even though its not a big problem but i found it weird was that naruto was ready to fight madara but ran away from him when he was brought back.
yea it was an average chapter

miles0624
13th November 2013, 4:00 PM
meh at this six week break. I'll try not to forget about it.

Locormus
13th November 2013, 5:34 PM
i thought kakashi was able to see everything that was going on because his and obito's vision are connected and saw sasuke fighting obito. i wasnt annoyed about minato saving him because minato is his sensei so of course he would stop them from killing each other. the thing i didnt like even though its not a big problem but i found it weird was that naruto was ready to fight madara but ran away from him when he was brought back.
yea it was an average chapter

He didn't stop Obito and Kakashi from killing each other. He stopped Kakashi from killing his effing murderer and genocide instigator.

Naruto didn't ran away from Madara, he was told to leave, back up the alliance vs. Tobi and let the five kage handle the situation. How you get annoyed by that is odd to say the least.

Again, certainly disappointed by this chain of events.


Mèh at this six week break. I'll try not to forget about it.

What? A six week break? I thought it was a singular week break!? But then again, it did say issue nr1.. -.-

SharpedoX
13th November 2013, 6:49 PM
Does anyone here remember Yamato? Me neither.

How about Black Zetsu? And Anko? And no one seems to acknowledge what happened to Konan. What about the aid Amegakure was to give in this coming war? All so sad. All of these things had potential to them.

LightningMaster95
13th November 2013, 7:12 PM
He didn't stop Obito and Kakashi from killing each other. He stopped Kakashi from killing his effing murderer and genocide instigator.

Naruto didn't ran away from Madara, he was told to leave, back up the alliance vs. Tobi and let the five kage handle the situation. How you get annoyed by that is odd to say the least

its not in minato's character to hold a grudge against someone, he stopped them because they were his students and wanted obito to learn from his mistakes
when has naruto ever ran away from a fight when he was told to he stays and talk/fight and him rrunning away from the meteor madara dropped on them, naruto went running away even though he wasnt going to be killed

Platinum fan.
13th November 2013, 7:16 PM
Talkity, talk talk. Talkity, talk talk. That's really all the chapter was. It was amusing seeing both Sasuke and Kakashi try to finish off Obito. The Bijuu's all free was cool, too bad we didn't get to see much of them, but they all like Naruto now. Maybe Naruto will adopt them all. They can be called "My little Bijuus!" The chapter wasn't bad but are we really not getting a new chapter till next year? I guess they want Madara to be the big final of this war. Whatever. Not much to really say on this chapter. Really I don't have anything to say about it. It was just talking.

RIN IS ALWAYS WATCHING YOU!

Emperor Empoleon
13th November 2013, 7:51 PM
I loved that last panel

Great callback to 573.

Locormus
13th November 2013, 7:53 PM
How about Black Zetsu? And Anko? And no one seems to acknowledge what happened to Konan. What about the aid Amegakure was to give in this coming war? All so sad. All of these things had potential to them.

Black Zetsu was offed by that Swordskid of the Mist, I think. We learned that he was a regular Zetsu, but with Madara's dark presence possessing it, and with Madara coming into the forefront of the manga, his presence didn't need to be in a Zetsu anymore.. Therefore, Black Zetsu became useless.

Anko probably died by Kabuto's technique.. Or Curse Seal extraction?

Konan died. Konan was going to help Naruto if she was needed, but she couldn't fulfill that promise because she died...

TsukiMirage
13th November 2013, 8:17 PM
i thought kakashi was able to see everything that was going on because his and obito's vision are connected and saw sasuke fighting obito. i wasnt annoyed about minato saving him because minato is his sensei so of course he would stop them from killing each other. the thing i didnt like even though its not a big problem but i found it weird was that naruto was ready to fight madara but ran away from him when he was brought back.
yea it was an average chapter I know he was getting glimpses, but don't remember any of those glimpses being of Sasuke fighting. Minato saving the life of the guy who caused both his and his wife's death, along with ruining his son's childhood, is just random.

Naruto was told to leave by the Gokages, to go deal with Obito. Naruto wanted to fight Madara, and did attempt to fight Madara after he had defeated the Gokages.


meh at this six week break. I'll try not to forget about it. It's only a single week break. This issue was #51, with there being 52 issues in a year. The issue in two weeks will be #1 for 2014.

Locormus
13th November 2013, 8:28 PM
Its not in Minato's character to hold a grudge against someone, he stopped them because they were his students and wanted Obito to learn from his mistakes. When has Naruto ever ran away from a fight? When he was told to he stays and talk/fight and him running away from the meteor Madara dropped on them, Naruto went running away even though he wasn't going to be killed

It's not in Minato's character to hold a grudge? But it is in Minato's personality to prepare everything in order for his son to take out an enemy he fears will bring the world to his knee. And just when that moment comes, he goes back on all that he has planned for?

Naruto went away from that fight because the chakra in the clone was depleting anyway, so he was better spent at the fight with Tobi, while the five Kage's stuck with Madara, after holding their own speech. Naruto is very susceptible to speeches if you haven't noticed.. If anybody gets to move him, it's through speeches, and he usually listens.

And lets be very, very clear. There's a difference between running away, and being sent from the battlefield with specific orders.. Fail on your part, bub.


It's only a single week break. This issue was #51, with there being 52 issues in a year. The issue in two weeks will be #1 for 2014.

I knew something was off.. They usually go out with a bigger bang before a six week break (see One Piece/Bleach)..

Lorde
13th November 2013, 8:31 PM
Ugh, what a boring chapter. I expected more to happen right after Madara was mentioned, but it was just Minato and Kakashi talking to Obito. At this point I don't even blame Sasuke for attempting to kill Obito; I don't want him to die, but Sasuke had the right idea in mind. Obito started this war so there has to be some kind of punishment.

LightningMaster95
13th November 2013, 9:35 PM
Naruto went away from that fight because the chakra in the clone was depleting anyway, so he was better spent at the fight with Tobi, while the five Kage's stuck with Madara, after holding their own speech. Naruto is very susceptible to speeches if you haven't noticed.. If anybody gets to move him, it's through speeches, and he usually listens.

And lets be very, very clear. There's a difference between running away, and being sent from the battlefield with specific orders.. Fail on your part, bub
and yet there times when he didnt listen to speeches(gaara's speech about sasuke)
and yet u ignored the point i made about the meteor being dropped on them even though it would not kill him he ran away instead of helping them
and for the people saying its weird that minato saved him its not its been shown that the teachers dont want their student to die or be killed
jiraiya-nagato
sarutobi-orochimaru
kakashi-sasuke
tobirama-danzo/sarutobi/elders

Lorde
13th November 2013, 10:45 PM
I know a lot of people loved the last page, but I didn't. I mean it's cool that Kishi remembered the footprint scene (even though I hated it when it appeared 70 chapters ago because it was a waste of several pages), but at the same time I hate how slow things are moving. I mean even without the Minato/Kakashi/Obito parts of the chapter, Kishi wasted several panels showing Naruto's attempt to climb and destroy the God Tree.

Shneak
13th November 2013, 11:04 PM
So if Obito tried to become friends with the Akatsuki, he would have won? Yup.

Rowdy
14th November 2013, 1:09 AM
So, no more chapters till the new year, huh? (according to what the message on the last page said)

Guess Kishi wants to take a few weeks to make sure the (possible) final year of Naruto will cover all the remaining things Kishi needs it to cover (and maybe what the fans want it to cover).

Platinum fan.
14th November 2013, 2:02 AM
I know he was getting glimpses, but don't remember any of those glimpses being of Sasuke fighting. Minato saving the life of the guy who caused both his and his wife's death, along with ruining his son's childhood, is just random.

Naruto was told to leave by the Gokages, to go deal with Obito. Naruto wanted to fight Madara, and did attempt to fight Madara after he had defeated the Gokages.

It's only a single week break. This issue was #51, with there being 52 issues in a year. The issue in two weeks will be #1 for 2014.

I'm sure Minato's smoking the same "World Peace" stuff that Jiraiya and Naruto are hooked on, even if Obito is the reason he and his wife are dead, it doesn't matter. It's all about the world peace. Remember when this series was about ninjas going on missions and the main characters wanted to be the best ninja in his village, which would mean he would probably have to take some guys out for the better of the village. I know the message they are trying to send, but these guys are suppose to be ninjas!

Lorde
14th November 2013, 4:55 AM
So if Obito tried to become friends with the Akatsuki, he would have won? Yup.

I hate the logic that was used in this week's chapter. I mean the whole "having friends is important" argument is constantly made in this series, but Kakashi implied that with friends anything is possible which isn't true. Obito would've obviously failed in his scheme even if he and the other Akatsuki members had supported each other as comrades. I just really dislike how preachy the manga has been lately.

XanderCage
14th November 2013, 1:01 PM
Sasuke's plan to kill Obito in the chapter vs Naruto's general nature of trying to always find resolution in conflict before ultimately ending someones life kind of reminds me of the differences between Hiruzen and Danzo's ideals. Danzo always believed that in order for peace to exist ninja must be emotionless and pretty much killing machines whereas Hiruzen believed in other forms of peacekeeping. Its interesting the conflict between Sasuke and Danzo in the past (I know Sasuke had to get revenge for what Danzo did), but I wonder if Sasuke had stayed in the village if he would have ended up joining Root and helping Danzo ultimately try to take over the village resorting to complete destruction. It seems that this is the plan Sasuke is expected to try to carry out. He wants the village to come under his control and doesn't care how that happens. Very interesting how similar of character's the two are.

TsukiMirage
14th November 2013, 3:14 PM
There's a major difference though. Sasuke went after Obito because he was deserving of death and still capable of escaping/being a problem. It's the reason Kakashi tried to do it too. Danzo, on the otherhand, never really went after anyone unless they were a threat to his personal desire for power. He didn't care whether someone was a threat to the world or not, only whether they were a threat to him, as we saw with Orochimaru and Pain. As for the idea that Sasuke could have joined Root, unlikely. Sasuke only has his current personality because of what happen. Had that not happen, he likely would be a completely different person. Not sure where you got the idea that Sasuke is trying to carry out any sort of nefarious plan.

XanderCage
14th November 2013, 7:01 PM
I had thought Sasuke said that if he had to he would take the Hokage position by force or something along those lines. I wasn't saying he has this diabolical plan to take over the village. I was just drawing comparisons between Danzo's and Sasuke's train of thought. Both are quite harsh with their actions and I think they believe in more of a conventional shinobi world (no emotions, do whatever is necessary to get the mission done etc.). Now Sasuke has the Uchiha curse where his sad times bring up super powers and that is definitely an emotion, but to me it seems like he is more apt to act than try to negotiate whereas Naruto would like to talk things through. I know the Sasuke we have learned to know would not exist if he stayed in the village but one has to wonder if Itachi had still killed off his clan and Sasuke had remained in the village if maybe he would seek out Danzo to become a better assassin as Root has been known to take the dirt of the village a sweep it under the rug, one would assume that they were good at assassination. Sasuke could have gone to Root, suppress his emotions but also becoming and accomplice in Danzo's scheme to take over the village. I know the reason why Sasuke was going to kill Obito (I still think someone should kill him), for some reason that panel of him rushing to kill Obito stuck out to me and made me think.

TsukiMirage
14th November 2013, 7:29 PM
All he said was that he didn't care about the opinions of the other Konoha 11 in him becoming Hokage. His whole reason for wanting to become Hokage is specifically to fix the problems that people like Danzo created. He's more like Tobirama in that regard, being a realist and wanting to proactively deal with situations. I would say Sasuke was more apt at talking then Naruto, who really only negotiated twice (with Karui and then with Ee), both of which were more about what he wanted and disregarding any sort of exchange. Sasuke's not much better, but he at least has the habit of talking before the fighting, instead of after.

Root was an unknown to the majority of the village, and Sasuke likely was too old to be trained at the point the series began. Not to mention that Itachi had made it clear to Danzo to not even think about it, along with getting Sarutobi to safeguard Sasuke. So there really wouldn't have been any way for Sasuke to partner up with Danzo while Itachi was still alive. Even if Itachi hadn't been an issue, Danzo would more than likely have killed Sasuke and taken his Sharingan then trained him.

Lorde
14th November 2013, 8:26 PM
I don't really see parallels between Naruto/Sasuke and Hiruzen/Danzo. I always thought that Danzo at least had the village's best interests in mind, but I don't trust Sasuke yet. I give him credit for wanting to get rid of a threat, but I don't think his intentions were all good. It's just hard for me to support him given his previous actions.

LightningMaster95
15th November 2013, 2:16 AM
I don't really see parallels between Naruto/Sasuke and Hiruzen/Danzo. I always thought that Danzo at least had the village's best interests in mind, but I don't trust Sasuke yet. I give him credit for wanting to get rid of a threat, but I don't think his intentions were all good. It's just hard for me to support him given his previous actions.
the only difference i see between sasuke and danzo was that sasuke was manipulated into doing most of those things while danzo did it out jealously and power
naruto and hiruzen try talking things out like humans; sasuke and danzo believe taking action is the best way to deal with things like true ninjas
danzo did have the village's best interests in mind but only until he became hokage

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
15th November 2013, 1:50 PM
I don't really see parallels between Naruto/Sasuke and Hiruzen/Danzo. I always thought that Danzo at least had the village's best interests in mind, but I don't trust Sasuke yet. I give him credit for wanting to get rid of a threat, but I don't think his intentions were all good. It's just hard for me to support him given his previous actions.

Agreed. Danzo might be a jerk but he does love the village even though his ways are different than other Hokage.

Hopefully Sasuke stays on the good side.

LightningMaster95
15th November 2013, 4:50 PM
Agreed. Danzo might be a jerk but he does love the village even though his ways are different than other Hokage.

Hopefully Sasuke stays on the good side.

i personally want sasuke to turn evil because i hate the fact that everyone turns good in this story(just wait 10-15 more chapters until madara turns good) and i want the naruto vs sasuke death match kishi promised us

TsukiMirage
15th November 2013, 5:01 PM
I don't really see parallels between Naruto/Sasuke and Hiruzen/Danzo. I always thought that Danzo at least had the village's best interests in mind, but I don't trust Sasuke yet. I give him credit for wanting to get rid of a threat, but I don't think his intentions were all good. It's just hard for me to support him given his previous actions. I don't see how people can say that Danzo had the village's best interest in mind when nearly everytime we saw him act was for his own interests. The only time he ever acted for the village was when he had lost and was about to die, which sort of defeats the point.

LightningMaster95
15th November 2013, 6:09 PM
I don't see how people can say that Danzo had the village's best interest in mind when nearly everytime we saw him act was for his own interests. The only time he ever acted for the village was when he had lost and was about to die, which sort of defeats the point.
i guess u can add the uchiha clan massacre since he thought of it and saved the village(with itachi) and again his movement were limited until he became a hokage the only thing that he has against him is letting konoha be blown up and i dont count orochimaru because that was the 3rd hokage's problem to deal with

Lorde
15th November 2013, 7:00 PM
I don't see how people can say that Danzo had the village's best interest in mind when nearly everytime we saw him act was for his own interests. The only time he ever acted for the village was when he had lost and was about to die, which sort of defeats the point.

He only acted selfishly because he truly believed that he would be the best leader for the village (and for the whole world I guess since he wanted to change the shinobi system in general). But the fact that he tried to take Sasuke and Tobi down with him at the end sort of proves that he cared about the village and wanted to remove all dangers against it.

TsukiMirage
15th November 2013, 8:52 PM
i guess u can add the uchiha clan massacre since he thought of it and saved the village(with itachi) and again his movement were limited until he became a hokage the only thing that he has against him is letting konoha be blown up and i dont count orochimaru because that was the 3rd hokage's problem to deal with The Uchiha Coup was caused by him and could have been solved without any bloodshed twice, both times Danzo directly interfering to prevent any other solution. And Danzo had directly contact with Orochimaru during the time he was a missingnin, when he was a major threat to Konoha and did nothing to try and stop him. You can't say his movement was limited when he was shown doing plenty of things against Sarutobi's desire.


He only acted selfishly because he truly believed that he would be the best leader for the village (and for the whole world I guess since he wanted to change the shinobi system in general). But the fact that he tried to take Sasuke and Tobi down with him at the end sort of proves that he cared about the village and wanted to remove all dangers against it. What he believed really doesn't change that he was really only had his own best interest in mind. A person who cared about the village wouldn't be willing to allow numerous villagers to be killed when they didn't have to be, and would have attempted to eliminate threats right away, not waited until there was no other choice. He showed he didn't have any problem with allowing threats, such as Orochimaru and Nagato, to run around and do as they pleased.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
15th November 2013, 8:55 PM
i personally want sasuke to turn evil because i hate the fact that everyone turns good in this story(just wait 10-15 more chapters until madara turns good) and i want the naruto vs sasuke death match kishi promised us

I do agree with you about it being repetitive about everyone and their grandmother turning good. Like the latest chapter, it was nice to see Obito choke Naruto, no matter how weird that sounds. LML If he turns good, which seems likely after Minato and Kakshi stepped in I'm flipping a table.

LightningMaster95
15th November 2013, 10:03 PM
The Uchiha Coup was caused by him and could have been solved without any bloodshed twice, both times Danzo directly interfering to prevent any other solution. And Danzo had directly contact with Orochimaru during the time he was a missingnin, when he was a major threat to Konoha and did nothing to try and stop him. You can't say his movement was limited when he was shown doing plenty of things against Sarutobi's desire.
the uchiha coup was caused by madara actions, when they started to believe he was right about the senju/konoha gaining control they started to rebel
obito caused the nine tails attack
people then started to believe it was someone in the uchiha clan because only the sharingan can control the tailed beasts
the 3rd hokage tries to talk to them
the 3rd hokage,elders, and danzo talk---danzo suggest the massacre,sarutobi again tries to talk them he fails so he gives the green light for danzo's plan
danzo only had part in planning the massacre which was for the good of the village which has been shown to be true in the manga many times

and u know sarutobi restricted danzo's movements until every other option failed and when that happened he lets danzo do what he wants and sarutobi would never let anyone kill orochimaru he loves his student too much

Platinum fan.
15th November 2013, 11:11 PM
I wouldn't say Danzo was a pure villain. I still think Sasuke when he was a villain out to 'crush Konoha' was a bigger threat to the village then Danzo was. Danzo was not innocent either. He had a lot of shadiness and believed sacrifices were needed for him to rise to power, which is why he didn't help during all the times Konoha was attacked. In his own way he did care about the future of Konoha, otherwise he wouldn't have stayed, he probably would have just formed his own area like Orochimaru did. It always felt like Danzo wanted to rebuild Konoha after these serious attacks. But again, Danzo's not innocent. There's the dealings with Orochimaru and the Uchiha massacre on his hands so if nothing else he's just one of the most ruthless ninjas in the series. I would have actually liked a corrupt Hokage storyline with Danzo where Gaara, Raikage, and the other nations didn't trust Konoha because of Danzo. That would have been a great storyline. I always felt they killed Danzo off way too early.

Lorde
15th November 2013, 11:13 PM
Speaking of the Uchiha coup, I wish we had learned where the Uchiha adults were during the Kyuubi's attack on the village. I thought that would be an important part of the story but it hasn't been clarified yet and I'm starting to think that it was only mentioned in passing and wasn't important, which would be disappointing.

LightningMaster95
15th November 2013, 11:38 PM
Speaking of the Uchiha coup, I wish we had learned where the Uchiha adults were during the Kyuubi's attack on the village. I thought that would be an important part of the story but it hasn't been clarified yet and I'm starting to think that it was only mentioned in passing and wasn't important, which would be disappointing.

the only thing i want to know about the uchiha massacre is why did itachi and obito kill all the kids when they were more innocent than sasuke

Platinum fan.
15th November 2013, 11:46 PM
the only thing i want to know about the uchiha massacre is why did itachi and obito kill all the kids when they were more innocent than sasuke

I guess Itachi only wanted one vengeful young Uchiha out to kill him and that was his little brother Sasuke. Imagine if there was a army of Sasuke's all bent on revenge. Nobody would be safe, lol.

insanejames
16th November 2013, 12:17 AM
He only acted selfishly because he truly believed that he would be the best leader for the village (and for the whole world I guess since he wanted to change the shinobi system in general). But the fact that he tried to take Sasuke and Tobi down with him at the end sort of proves that he cared about the village and wanted to remove all dangers against it.

I agree i think the only reson he did this outside of beening power hungery was that he belive that he was the future, or the best possable one for this world. That been said he was power hungery and probably a psychopath with an ego but i do think he was looking after the village in his own way if we think it is right or not is a different story.



the only thing i want to know about the uchiha massacre is why did itachi and obito kill all the kids when they were more innocent than sasuke

He was kid he hadn't done anything yet and Itachi loved his brother to much to kill him

Shadow Lucario
16th November 2013, 12:17 AM
I guess Itachi only wanted one vengeful young Uchiha out to kill him and that was his little brother Sasuke. Imagine if there was a army of Sasuke's all bent on revenge. Nobody would be safe, lol.

That and it's doubtful that they had the potential that Sasuke has. Remember that he's a genius, even by Uchiha standards.

LightningMaster95
16th November 2013, 1:41 AM
He was kid he hadn't done anything yet and Itachi loved his brother to much to kill him
but the thing is that sasuke wasnt the only innocent kid and yet itachi still killed them all except sasuke i understand he loved him but sasuke had more to do with the coup than all the other kids
@platinum fan im positive itachi wouldnt have a problem dealing with them he only needs his genjutsu and susannoo and hes almost unbeatable

Lorde
16th November 2013, 2:11 AM
the only thing i want to know about the uchiha massacre is why did itachi and obito kill all the kids when they were more innocent than sasuke

Itachi only cared about Sasuke apparently so he probably didn't mind killing innocent children if it meant he could keep Sasuke alive. Also I suppose it would've been dangerous if more Uchiha kids survived since they could grow to be a threat to the village much like Sasuke was. Like someone else said, imagine a whole bunch of Sasukes running around.

TsukiMirage
16th November 2013, 5:36 AM
the uchiha coup was caused by madara actions, when they started to believe he was right about the senju/konoha gaining control they started to rebel
obito caused the nine tails attack
people then started to believe it was someone in the uchiha clan because only the sharingan can control the tailed beasts
the 3rd hokage tries to talk to them
the 3rd hokage,elders, and danzo talk---danzo suggest the massacre,sarutobi again tries to talk them he fails so he gives the green light for danzo's plan
danzo only had part in planning the massacre which was for the good of the village which has been shown to be true in the manga many times

and u know sarutobi restricted danzo's movements until every other option failed and when that happened he lets danzo do what he wants and sarutobi would never let anyone kill orochimaru he loves his student too much While there was a handfulof Uchiha's who believed that Madara had been right, the Uchiha clan attempted a coup was because of the discrimination by Danzo and the Council, which was mentioned several times as the reason. And as far as the rest of Konoha believed, they believed the Kyuubi attack was a natural disaster. The Council wouldn't have believed it either, since they both knew the truth regarding the Kyuubi, and had at least two spies in the Uchiha clan that would have told them otherwise. And Sarutobi didn't fail at anything. He never got the chance. Danzo threatened Itachi into it before Sarutobi had gotten the chance to talk with them.

If Danzo was doing it for the good of the village, then he wouldn't have stolen Shisui's eye when Shisui plan to use it to end the coup nor gone behind Sarutobi's back and threatened Sasuke's life to force Itachi to do what he wanted. Heck, by Danzo's own admission, Konoha would have won anyway and the Uchiha clan didn't stand chance.

Sarutobi didn't "restrict" Danzo at all, because Danzo acted behind his back. Sarutobi admitted that to Sasuke, that allowing Danzo to do as he wanted was a mistake. And seeing as Orochimaru was a missingnin, meaning he was marked for death, Sarutobi wasn't protecting him. Not that it would even be an excuse, because if Danzo was working for the good of the village, then there is no reason he shouldn't have killed a clear threat like Orochimaru.

LightningMaster95
16th November 2013, 2:09 PM
While there was a handfulof Uchiha's who believed that Madara had been right, the Uchiha clan attempted a coup was because of the discrimination by Danzo and the Council, which was mentioned several times as the reason. And as far as the rest of Konoha believed, they believed the Kyuubi attack was a natural disaster. The Council wouldn't have believed it either, since they both knew the truth regarding the Kyuubi, and had at least two spies in the Uchiha clan that would have told them otherwise. And Sarutobi didn't fail at anything. He never got the chance. Danzo threatened Itachi into it before Sarutobi had gotten the chance to talk with them.

If Danzo was doing it for the good of the village, then he wouldn't have stolen Shisui's eye when Shisui plan to use it to end the coup nor gone behind Sarutobi's back and threatened Sasuke's life to force Itachi to do what he wanted. Heck, by Danzo's own admission, Konoha would have won anyway and the Uchiha clan didn't stand chance.

Sarutobi didn't "restrict" Danzo at all, because Danzo acted behind his back. Sarutobi admitted that to Sasuke, that allowing Danzo to do as he wanted was a mistake. And seeing as Orochimaru was a missingnin, meaning he was marked for death, Sarutobi wasn't protecting him. Not that it would even be an excuse, because if Danzo was working for the good of the village, then there is no reason he shouldn't have killed a clear threat like Orochimaru.
wait i think i know why we're disagreeing so much i just read two different translations and watched the episode and it says different things
in one translation it says he tried to reason with the council but in the other it says with the uchiha

Platinum fan.
16th November 2013, 5:55 PM
but the thing is that sasuke wasnt the only innocent kid and yet itachi still killed them all except sasuke i understand he loved him but sasuke had more to do with the coup than all the other kids
@platinum fan im positive itachi wouldnt have a problem dealing with them he only needs his genjutsu and susannoo and hes almost unbeatable

Not exactly. Itachi's powerful but not flawless. If they all had Mangekyou Sharingan, that would be a nightmare for anyone, unless you were like Madara. I always wondered what would have happened if Sasuke had Mangekyou Sharingan, Amaterasu, Susanoo, and Karin in that fight? I'm sure Itachi still would have won, as he knows these abilities better then anyone, but still, it would have been way more of a effort.

LightningMaster95
16th November 2013, 6:11 PM
Not exactly. Itachi's powerful but not flawless. If they all had Mangekyou Sharingan, that would be a nightmare for anyone, unless you were like Madara. I always wondered what would have happened if Sasuke had Mangekyou Sharingan, Amaterasu, Susanoo, and Karin in that fight? I'm sure Itachi still would have won, as he knows these abilities better then anyone, but still, it would have been way more of a effort.
i think its impossible for sasuke to have ms with itachi being alive since itachi was the one that activated it for him but even if he did itachi would still win just surprised during the fight, i dont think itachi even used 40% of his real power during that fight with sasuke
current sasuke would beat him with high difficulty but not ms sasuke

Lorde
16th November 2013, 8:21 PM
Not exactly. Itachi's powerful but not flawless. If they all had Mangekyou Sharingan, that would be a nightmare for anyone, unless you were like Madara. I always wondered what would have happened if Sasuke had Mangekyou Sharingan, Amaterasu, Susanoo, and Karin in that fight? I'm sure Itachi still would have won, as he knows these abilities better then anyone, but still, it would have been way more of a effort.

You mean Kirin, as in that lightning jutsu that he used against Itachi when he was running out of chakra (which was supposed to be his trump card), not Karin the person right?

J Ken
16th November 2013, 8:23 PM
Speaking of Kirin where is that move? Seriously that's the 1 impressive move in Sasuke's arsenal that we haven't seen someone else use yet he never even bothers to use it. I'm sure with the EMS he can prepare it much easier then he could back then.

Lorde
16th November 2013, 8:31 PM
Speaking of Kirin where is that move? Seriously that's the 1 impressive move in Sasuke's arsenal that we haven't seen someone else use yet he never even bothers to use it. I'm sure with the EMS he can prepare it much easier then he could back then.

We'll probably see it again when he fights Naruto. In fact, I hope he does use it and Naruto counters with the Rasenshuriken to show that wind jutsu are superior to lightning jutsu.

J Ken
16th November 2013, 8:52 PM
We'll probably see it again when he fights Naruto. In fact, I hope he does use it and Naruto counters with the Rasenshuriken to show that wind jutsu are superior to lightning jutsu.

As much as I would like to see that I have a feeling that outside the new stronger moves Sasuke learned he'll probably just use Chidori and some old fire jutsus just for some nostalgic battle scenes.

LightningMaster95
16th November 2013, 9:42 PM
As much as I would like to see that I have a feeling that outside the new stronger moves Sasuke learned he'll probably just use Chidori and some old fire jutsus just for some nostalgic battle scenes.

dont forget susannoo and amateratsu ever since he got them he always has to rely on just those along with chidori, i wonder how naruto can counter amateratsu he nothing that can counter that

J Ken
16th November 2013, 10:31 PM
dont forget susannoo and amateratsu ever since he got them he always has to rely on just those along with chidori, i wonder how naruto can counter amateratsu he nothing that can counter that

To be fair Sasuke has no known abilities that can match up to what Naruto can do now. So if anything the guy who needs something more from the two when they inevitably clash it is Sasuke.

Platinum fan.
16th November 2013, 10:55 PM
You mean Kirin, as in that lightning jutsu that he used against Itachi when he was running out of chakra (which was supposed to be his trump card), not Karin the person right?

I actually did mean Karin the person. Biting Karin has has saved Sasuke quite a few times in his fights where she is actually present. Sasuke's Kirin was a one time only thing and we never get to see him use it anymore, which is too bad. It was pretty cool when he unleashed it on Itachi.

As for the whole Naruto vs Sasuke thing, I still say they are about even. Amaterasu can in theory be countered by either Kyuubi Mode Naruto's speed much like Raikage, or simply create Shadow Clones to take the hit for him. Susanoo was really the only thing Naruto didn't have a counter for, but now that he and Kurama are on the same page, Genjutsu isn't much of a threat anymore since Kurama can shock him out of it, and if Naruto ever underwent a fully Nine Tails transformation that would probably be equal to Sasuke's Susanoo, in theory of course.

LightningMaster95
16th November 2013, 11:44 PM
I actually did mean Karin the person. Biting Karin has has saved Sasuke quite a few times in his fights where she is actually present. Sasuke's Kirin was a one time only thing and we never get to see him use it anymore, which is too bad. It was pretty cool when he unleashed it on Itachi.

As for the whole Naruto vs Sasuke thing, I still say they are about even. Amaterasu can in theory be countered by either Kyuubi Mode Naruto's speed much like Raikage, or simply create Shadow Clones to take the hit for him. Susanoo was really the only thing Naruto didn't have a counter for, but now that he and Kurama are on the same page, Genjutsu isn't much of a threat anymore since Kurama can shock him out of it, and if Naruto ever underwent a fully Nine Tails transformation that would probably be equal to Sasuke's Susanoo, in theory of course.
im going have to disagree with some things but first i dont want karin stepping in to save sasuke that got annoying real fast i want to see him fight 1vs1 without any outside help

i dont think sasuke's genjustu would have much effect on him anyways because he was already getting the hang of breaking out of it or not being put to sleep by itachi
and i think sasuke's susannoo is the one that needs to match naruto's transformation

i would like the battle to go stage by stage to make it interesting to watch their power ups in action
base naruto vs base sasuke

sage naruto vs sharingan sasuke

kcm naruto vs ms sasuke

bm naruto vs ems sasuke

bsm naruto vs rinnegan sasuke???? had to give sasuke a power up

TsukiMirage
17th November 2013, 1:28 AM
To be fair Sasuke has no known abilities that can match up to what Naruto can do now. So if anything the guy who needs something more from the two when they inevitably clash it is Sasuke. I don't know. Even with his current powers, Naruto hasn't exactly had a great showing against either Obito or Madara, and Sasuke's suppose to be on par with them. There was also that previously hinted at power of canceling out the Kyuubi chakra earlier shown and the unique EMS ability Sasuke is suppose to have gained. But more importantly, there really isn't any other power-up he could get. The Rinnegan is pointless, as we have had that in three different villains and Naruto knows how to fight against it.

J Ken
17th November 2013, 2:18 AM
I don't know. Even with his current powers, Naruto hasn't exactly had a great showing against either Obito or Madara, and Sasuke's suppose to be on par with them. There was also that previously hinted at power of canceling out the Kyuubi chakra earlier shown and the unique EMS ability Sasuke is suppose to have gained. But more importantly, there really isn't any other power-up he could get. The Rinnegan is pointless, as we have had that in three different villains and Naruto knows how to fight against it.

You make a good point but Sasuke was never stated to be on par with either Obito or Madara. If anything the fight against them just went to show how up there Obito and Madara were in comparison to the present Sasuke who still hasn't reached his full potential.

Lorde
17th November 2013, 2:35 AM
I actually did mean Karin the person. Biting Karin has has saved Sasuke quite a few times in his fights where she is actually present.

I don't think Karin would be an effective partner for Sasuke during a real fight. I mean given her ability, she would be an obvious target for Sasuke's opponent since her healing would keep Sasuke alive. Had Sasuke fought Itachi in a serious battle with Karin by his side, I think Karin would've been a hinderance. And to her credit, she did well by observing Danzo when Sasuke fought him, but ultimately she ended up getting caught by Danzo at the end, forcing Sasuke to dispose of her. The same would happen in any other fight imo.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
17th November 2013, 2:33 PM
I don't think Karin would be an effective partner for Sasuke during a real fight. I mean given her ability, she would be an obvious target for Sasuke's opponent since her healing would keep Sasuke alive. Had Sasuke fought Itachi in a serious battle with Karin by his side, I think Karin would've been a hinderance. And to her credit, she did well by observing Danzo when Sasuke fought him, but ultimately she ended up getting caught by Danzo at the end, forcing Sasuke to dispose of her. The same would happen in any other fight imo.

Agreed. I like Karin, but she's only been shown to be useful for healing and sensing the chakra of others. I do wish more of her shinobi skills were displayed.

TsukiMirage
17th November 2013, 5:36 PM
You make a good point but Sasuke was never stated to be on par with either Obito or Madara. If anything the fight against them just went to show how up there Obito and Madara were in comparison to the present Sasuke who still hasn't reached his full potential. Sasuke was compared with Madara several times, and he had preformed better then Obito before the latter became the Juubi Jinchuuriki. The current situation isn't really a good basis because both of them are relying on non-Uchiha powers. But the point was, that Madara, with just his EMS and prefect Susanoo, was said to be comparable to a Bijuu and was near even with Hashirama's Sage Mode. Sasuke with the same tools should be in a similar situation.

J Ken
17th November 2013, 5:47 PM
Sasuke was compared with Madara several times, and he had preformed better then Obito before the latter became the Juubi Jinchuuriki. The current situation isn't really a good basis because both of them are relying on non-Uchiha powers. But the point was, that Madara, with just his EMS and prefect Susanoo, was said to be comparable to a Bijuu and was near even with Hashirama's Sage Mode. Sasuke with the same tools should be in a similar situation.

Sasuke was compared to him for their similar styles and abilities but Orochimaru even said that Sasuke could end up surpassing Madara on day. In other words he still hasn't surpassed him or reached his league considering all of the experience and extra abilities Madara has that Sasukw lacks and Obito had already been fighting much longer then Sasuke had by the time Sasuke arrived to the battlefield so naturally a more healthy Sasuke with backup could fight better then a fatigued Obito. Sasuke's Susanoo can't be compared to Madara's considering again Madara has already reached his full potential in comparison to a still developing Sasuke who doesn't even have the stabilized form yet.

LightningMaster95
17th November 2013, 6:07 PM
Sasuke was compared to him for their similar styles and abilities but Orochimaru even said that Sasuke could end up surpassing Madara on day. In other words he still hasn't surpassed him or reached his league considering all of the experience and extra abilities Madara has that Sasukw lacks and Obito had already been fighting much longer then Sasuke had by the time Sasuke arrived to the battlefield so naturally a more healthy Sasuke with backup could fight better then a fatigued Obito. Sasuke's Susanoo can't be compared to Madara's considering again Madara has already reached his full potential in comparison to a still developing Sasuke who doesn't even have the stabilized form yet.
i agree with you on sasuke not being at madara's level yet and shouldnt be compared to him yet, and iirc didnt sasuke's sasuannoo stabilize when it fused with kuruma

Lorde
17th November 2013, 8:38 PM
Yeah, I don't think Sasuke is at Madara's level quite yet, but they're both pretty broken. I expect that Sasuke will go through another upgrade shortly after the war ends so that he can be more of a challenge to Naruto. I don't want Sasuke to develop a Rinnegan, but at this point I almost expect it to happen so he can finally become Madara's equal.

TsukiMirage
17th November 2013, 10:50 PM
Sasuke was compared to him for their similar styles and abilities but Orochimaru even said that Sasuke could end up surpassing Madara on day. In other words he still hasn't surpassed him or reached his league considering all of the experience and extra abilities Madara has that Sasukw lacks and Obito had already been fighting much longer then Sasuke had by the time Sasuke arrived to the battlefield so naturally a more healthy Sasuke with backup could fight better then a fatigued Obito. Sasuke's Susanoo can't be compared to Madara's considering again Madara has already reached his full potential in comparison to a still developing Sasuke who doesn't even have the stabilized form yet. Sasuke has or will likely soon gain the same abilities that Madara had, EMS and prefect Susanoo. Susanoo's evolution was already shown something that can happen several times over a single battle (the fight with Danzo). So stabilization shouldn't be an issue and as pointed out, he's also suppose to gain some unique EMS ability. That's what I personally believe Sasuke's next power-up will be, and considering Naruto's performance during this war, that should be enough to make them even. I don't think he's suppose to measure up to the current Madara, since A) there's no way he could reach the level of power of the Rinnega and Mokuton immortal with infinite chakra, and B) "normal" Madara was already godly and shown on a whole different level then anyone else but Hashirama.

I wasn't merely talking about Obito's performance during this war. All of Obito's fights have been him relying on Kamui and once that's gotten past, he wasn't anything special (except when he used Mokuton, which is a separate thing).

J Ken
17th November 2013, 11:03 PM
Sasuke has or will likely soon gain the same abilities that Madara had, EMS and prefect Susanoo. Susanoo's evolution was already shown something that can happen several times over a single battle (the fight with Danzo). So stabilization shouldn't be an issue and as pointed out, he's also suppose to gain some unique EMS ability. That's what I personally believe Sasuke's next power-up will be, and considering Naruto's performance during this war, that should be enough to make them even. I don't think he's suppose to measure up to the current Madara, since A) there's no way he could reach the level of power of the Rinnega and Mokuton immortal with infinite chakra, and B) "normal" Madara was already godly and shown on a whole different level then anyone else but Hashirama.

I wasn't merely talking about Obito's performance during this war. All of Obito's fights have been him relying on Kamui and once that's gotten past, he wasn't anything special (except when he used Mokuton, which is a separate thing).

I'm not referring to immortal Madara I'm referring to the Madara of the past who wasn't blessed with the Reanimation's benefits. Sasuke can't surpass Madara if he relies on the same moves that Madara used honestly. Madara has more experience then him and has a better knowledge of the Sharingan's abilities and Sasuke's going to need to use different moves then him to truly be considered someone superior then him.

In all fairness the same can be said about Sasuke's EMS abilities. Obito spams his moves but so does Sasuke. So I can't see how Sasuke can seem stronger spamming his abilities while Obito is called weak. He actually is pretty special considering he's an Uchiha with the Rinnegan, Wood Style and a bunch of other high;y advance justus that he just doesn't use because of the writing in the series relogating him to spam his MS.

LightningMaster95
18th November 2013, 4:40 AM
I'm not referring to immortal Madara I'm referring to the Madara of the past who wasn't blessed with the Reanimation's benefits. Sasuke can't surpass Madara if he relies on the same moves that Madara used honestly. Madara has more experience then him and has a better knowledge of the Sharingan's abilities and Sasuke's going to need to use different moves then him to truly be considered someone superior then him.

In all fairness the same can be said about Sasuke's EMS abilities. Obito spams his moves but so does Sasuke. So I can't see how Sasuke can seem stronger spamming his abilities while Obito is called weak. He actually is pretty special considering he's an Uchiha with the Rinnegan, Wood Style and a bunch of other high;y advance justus that he just doesn't use because of the writing in the series relogating him to spam his MS.
this is another problem i have with this manga no one really uses any unique moves anymore they all end up having the same moves
theres like 5 people using wood style now
3 people with the rinnegan maybe 4 with sasuke later on
4 people that can go sage (not sure if oro can go sage it was implied)
5 people with the rasengan
^^^ those were suppose to be unique, i know theres more but i just mentioned the most common ones

Platinum fan.
18th November 2013, 3:24 PM
this is another problem i have with this manga no one really uses any unique moves anymore they all end up having the same moves
theres like 5 people using wood style now
3 people with the rinnegan maybe 4 with sasuke later on
4 people that can go sage (not sure if oro can go sage it was implied)
5 people with the rasengan
^^^ those were suppose to be unique, i know theres more but i just mentioned the most common ones

I'm assuming many of the people you are naming are dead. Naruto can go Sage Mode, Jiraiya could go Sage Mode but he's gone now. Kabuto can go Sage Mode or at least he could and his Sage Mode is different then Naruto's. Orochimaru cannot go Sage Mode yet, is there anyone else who can go Sage Mode? Same with Rasengan, once Minato goes back only Naruto and Konohamaru will have Rasengan. These moves are still pretty rare. It's just because we're seeing so many Edo Tensei's that they feel overused. Once Obito and Madara are gone there will be no more Rinnegan, assuming Sasuke doesn't get it but he might. They are mainly overused because they are being spammed.

J Ken
18th November 2013, 8:12 PM
The amount of people with the abilities is pretty low but the amount of use among those people who have it is what really makes the moves lose their edge and uniqueness.

LightningMaster95
18th November 2013, 8:51 PM
I'm assuming many of the people you are naming are dead. Naruto can go Sage Mode, Jiraiya could go Sage Mode but he's gone now. Kabuto can go Sage Mode or at least he could and his Sage Mode is different then Naruto's. Orochimaru cannot go Sage Mode yet, is there anyone else who can go Sage Mode? Same with Rasengan, once Minato goes back only Naruto and Konohamaru will have Rasengan. These moves are still pretty rare. It's just because we're seeing so many Edo Tensei's that they feel overused. Once Obito and Madara are gone there will be no more Rinnegan, assuming Sasuke doesn't get it but he might. They are mainly overused because they are being spammed.
sage mode-(alive)naruto kabuto oro(maybe said he was learning it but his current body couldnt handle it) (dead) jiraiya hashirama

rasengan-(alive) naruto konohamru kakashi (dead)jiraiya minato

rinnegan-(alive)obito sasuke(later on) (dead)madara nagato SO6P

wood style-(alive)obito yamato (dead)hashirama madara ???danzo???

Lorde
18th November 2013, 9:11 PM
sage mode-(alive)naruto kabuto oro(maybe said he was learning it but his current body couldnt handle it) (dead) jiraiya hashirama

Like someone else said, there are different kinds of Sage Mode; Kabuto's was snake based so I wouldn't count it as being the same as Naruto's toad Sage Mode. And I'm not sure that we know what kind of Sage Mode Hashirama could use; I don't think that's been clarified. Also, if we're going to count all living characters who can use toad Sage Mode, we should probably count Shima, Fukasaku, and Gamakichi since they can use it too.

LightningMaster95
19th November 2013, 12:24 AM
Like someone else said, there are different kinds of Sage Mode; Kabuto's was snake based so I wouldn't count it as being the same as Naruto's toad Sage Mode. And I'm not sure that we know what kind of Sage Mode Hashirama could use; I don't think that's been clarified. Also, if we're going to count all living characters who can use toad Sage Mode, we should probably count Shima, Fukasaku, and Gamakichi since they can use it too.

its still sage mode and the people that can do it are called sages it doesnt matter if its a different type it falls under the same name sage

Platinum fan.
19th November 2013, 7:07 PM
its still sage mode and the people that can do it are called sages it doesnt matter if its a different type it falls under the same name sage

Naruto and Kabuto are the only people who can go Sage Mode right now. Unless I'm mistaken it was stated Orochimaru didn't have a body capable of using Sage Mode so it's just Naruto and Kabuto, and something tells me Kabuto won't be fighting anymore for the rest of the series so it's just Naruto with a Sage Mode. Unless Sakura gets a slug mode. Who would love to see Sakura covered in slime?

CanadianGuyEh
19th November 2013, 7:21 PM
I actually enjoyed the Kabuto backstory arch, in some way it made me feel sorry for the guy. But what was the most coolest part of the latest episodes were Sasuke & Itachi working together, especially how Itachi pretty much locked Kabuto in an ever-lasting Gengetsu.

Can't wait for this Thursdays episode.

Lorde
19th November 2013, 7:51 PM
I actually enjoyed the Kabuto backstory arch, in some way it made me feel sorry for the guy. But what was the most coolest part of the latest episodes were Sasuke & Itachi working together, especially how Itachi pretty much locked Kabuto in an ever-lasting Gengetsu.

Can't wait for this Thursdays episode.

To be frank, I didn't really like the Kabuto vs. Itachi/Sasuke fight. I remember reading the chapters and it seemed to be more about Kabuto's backstory than about the action. I did watch the episodes of that fight though, and I liked them all until the Izanami was activated. I just hated the filler that was added to that episode; I know it was meant to show that Kabuto was stuck in the genjutsu loop, but it got tedious after about a minute.

CanadianGuyEh
19th November 2013, 8:21 PM
To be frank, I didn't really like the Kabuto vs. Itachi/Sasuke fight. I remember reading the chapters and it seemed to be more about Kabuto's backstory than about the action. I did watch the episodes of that fight though, and I liked them all until the Izanami was activated. I just hated the filler that was added to that episode; I know it was meant to show that Kabuto was stuck in the genjutsu loop, but it got tedious after about a minute.

Well presumably next thursday things will get back on track i suppose.

TsukiMirage
19th November 2013, 10:15 PM
I'm not referring to immortal Madara I'm referring to the Madara of the past who wasn't blessed with the Reanimation's benefits. Sasuke can't surpass Madara if he relies on the same moves that Madara used honestly. Madara has more experience then him and has a better knowledge of the Sharingan's abilities and Sasuke's going to need to use different moves then him to truly be considered someone superior then him. Ah, ok. Anyway, the only similar "moves" they have used so far is Susanoo, and even in that case, Sasuke's Susanoo seems quite different then Madara. And while Madara had more experience, Sasuke's a genius who would have mastered his abilities years earlier then Madara had. He has already been praised for his Enton usage by Tobirama, something as far as we know Madara lacks.


In all fairness the same can be said about Sasuke's EMS abilities. Obito spams his moves but so does Sasuke. So I can't see how Sasuke can seem stronger spamming his abilities while Obito is called weak. He actually is pretty special considering he's an Uchiha with the Rinnegan, Wood Style and a bunch of other high;y advance justus that he just doesn't use because of the writing in the series relogating him to spam his MS. I don't know about that. While Sasuke could have been said to spam in the past, I wouldn't call his current usage spamming. Since gaining EMS, Sasuke has only used his techniques when he either needed a big attack or to defend, and then deactivated it right after. The final fight with Obito was the only time recently that he kept Susanoo up for longer then a single attack.

As for the comparison between the two, you're right about the "current" Obito. But for a long time, the only special thing about Obito was only Kamui. The fact that he had so many other tools available only makes his past performances even worst. Sasuke didn't run into that problem, being allowed to use all of his EMS abilities in most of his battles, along with his regular techniques.

LightningMaster95
20th November 2013, 1:23 AM
how about we do vs matches since we're not going to get any manga for the next couple of weeks 2 or 6 weeks depending on which new year theyre talking about

Platinum fan.
20th November 2013, 2:06 AM
how about we do vs matches since we're not going to get any manga for the next couple of weeks 2 or 6 weeks depending on which new year theyre talking about

As in who would win in a fight? Sounds like great debating material to me. I love it :)

Lorde
20th November 2013, 3:36 AM
Does anyone know why the manga's on break this week?

And speaking of hypothetical situations, I've always wondered how the Akatsuki members would be ranked in terms of strength. I mean I personally place Nagato/Pain at the top since he brought Konohagakure to its feet and almost succeeded in taking Naruto, but I'm not sure how I'd rank the other members.

LightningMaster95
20th November 2013, 4:11 AM
Does anyone know why the manga's on break this week?

And speaking of hypothetical situations, I've always wondered how the Akatsuki members would be ranked in terms of strength. I mean I personally place Nagato/Pain at the top since he brought Konohagakure to its feet and almost succeeded in taking Naruto, but I'm not sure how I'd rank the other members.
its a tradition in japan i think where many people dont work
akatsuki
1.obito
2.nagato/itachi (if we had seen a fully healthy and intent to kill itachi he would be 2nd)
3. ^^^ depends on sick or health itachi
4.kisame
5.sasori
6.kakuzu
7.orochimaru
8.konan
9.diedara
10.hidan
11.zetsu

Rowdy
20th November 2013, 1:26 PM
Does anyone know why the manga's on break this week?

And speaking of hypothetical situations, I've always wondered how the Akatsuki members would be ranked in terms of strength. I mean I personally place Nagato/Pain at the top since he brought Konohagakure to its feet and almost succeeded in taking Naruto, but I'm not sure how I'd rank the other members.

I don't think it's just this week, but for the rest of the year as I believe it said as much in the last chapter that Naruto would be on hiatus till the first Jump of the new year. As for the why? Either Kishi wants to take a few weeks to finish preparing for what may be the series final year or maybe he's preparing for what ever he'll be doing post Naruto.

Platinum fan.
20th November 2013, 1:49 PM
Does anyone know why the manga's on break this week?

And speaking of hypothetical situations, I've always wondered how the Akatsuki members would be ranked in terms of strength. I mean I personally place Nagato/Pain at the top since he brought Konohagakure to its feet and almost succeeded in taking Naruto, but I'm not sure how I'd rank the other members.

As far as the Akatsuki in terms of power I'd

1st: Obito/Tobi: For obvious reasons.
2nd: Pain/Nagato: It was hard to decide if he was really stronger then Itachi or not, but I think Pain is overall more powerful, but it's close.
3rd: Itachi Uchiha: I've been rereading part 1 and Itachi, unlike Sasuke, seemed to always get exhausted after using MS. Just using Amaterasu once took a lot out of him, but he's still immensely powerful, obviously.
4th: Kisame: Tailless Bijuu, enough said right? Kisame would be very hard to take down one-on-one.
5th: Sasori: His puppets had a lot of different abilities to exploit.
6th: Deidara: Deidara's C4 bomb was deadly as is all his explosion clay. If it wasn't for the fact that he said Sasori was stronger then him, I'd tie him with Sasori.
7th: Kakuzu and Konan: I can't decide who I would consider better. Konan's pretty smart in making plans to kill you but her paper jutsu doesn't seem very effective in the times it was used, and yet I still found her as impressive as Kakuzu. Konan seems to be like Kakashi and Shikamaru. Rather then using a super powerful jutsu she uses more ninja tools then powers.
8th: Hidan: Hidan without his immortality would be useless. It feels like he relies on that too much. Not as threatening as the others, but powerful in his own right.
9th: Zetsu: Really no need to explain.

If I had to put Orochimaru I would put it before Deidara but after Sasori.

Lorde
20th November 2013, 8:46 PM
I personally can't place Obito at the top even though he was the true leader and the one who manipulated Nagato to start hunting down the Bijuu. I mean without his Juubi upgrade, he wasn't that much of a threat imo. Sure he could phase through stuff and teleport, but he wasn't as powerful as Nagato in my opinion. I actually felt that Akatsuki became irrelevant once Nagato died. The organization just didn't seem that powerful anymore once he died. I'd rank the members as such based on my own perception:


Nagato/Pain
Itachi
Obito
Deidara
Sasori
Kisame
Kakuzu
Hidan
Konan
Zetsu


I put Obito behind Itachi since most of his abilities while working with Akatsuki were non-combative, but I do respect his position as the actual leader. Also, I still have no idea if I actually think Zetsu was strong, so I put him last because I'm confused about him. I didn't list Orochimaru since he left the organization before it was introduced, and I'm surprised that I put Deidara ahead of Sasori given that the former said the latter was stronger. I just think Deidara's explosions were stronger than Sasori's puppets.

LightningMaster95
20th November 2013, 10:01 PM
I personally can't place Obito at the top even though he was the true leader and the one who manipulated Nagato to start hunting down the Bijuu. I mean without his Juubi upgrade, he wasn't that much of a threat imo. Sure he could phase through stuff and teleport, but he wasn't as powerful as Nagato in my opinion. I actually felt that Akatsuki became irrelevant once Nagato died. The organization just didn't seem that powerful anymore once he died. I'd rank the members as such based on my own perception:


Nagato/Pain
Itachi
Obito
Deidara
Sasori
Kisame
Kakuzu
Hidan
Konan
Zetsu


I put Obito behind Itachi since most of his abilities while working with Akatsuki were non-combative, but I do respect his position as the actual leader. Also, I still have no idea if I actually think Zetsu was strong, so I put him last because I'm confused about him. I didn't list Orochimaru since he left the organization before it was introduced, and I'm surprised that I put Deidara ahead of Sasori given that the former said the latter was stronger. I just think Deidara's explosions were stronger than Sasori's puppets.
even before the juubi upgrade he was still powerful kakashi naruto gai and bee were barely able to keep up with him and naruto beat pain/nagato and of course it became irrelevant since the only members alive when obito became the leader was kisame and zetsu
idk why u would put diedara as number 4 and kisame as 6 and konan at 9 she proved to be powerful go watch her fight against jiraiya and obito

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
20th November 2013, 10:40 PM
If I remember correctly, Deidara said Sasori is stronger than him. I might be wrong though, but I agree with tak310. Konan place should be placed a bit higher.

SharpedoX
20th November 2013, 10:53 PM
Black Zetsu was offed by that Swordskid of the Mist, I think. We learned that he was a regular Zetsu, but with Madara's dark presence possessing it, and with Madara coming into the forefront of the manga, his presence didn't need to be in a Zetsu anymore.. Therefore, Black Zetsu became useless.

Anko probably died by Kabuto's technique.. Or Curse Seal extraction?

Konan died. Konan was going to help Naruto if she was needed, but she couldn't fulfill that promise because she died...

These were all rhetorical questions...

Lorde
20th November 2013, 11:15 PM
even before the juubi upgrade he was still powerful kakashi naruto gai and bee were barely able to keep up with him and naruto beat pain/nagato and of course it became irrelevant since the only members alive when obito became the leader was kisame and zetsu
idk why u would put diedara as number 4 and kisame as 6 and konan at 9 she proved to be powerful go watch her fight against jiraiya and obito

Naruto and the others only struggled against Obito because they couldn't touch him; it wasn't so much that Obito was powerful, it was just that his ability to become intangible made fighting him so difficult for many characters. As for Deidara, Kisame, and Konan's positions; I personally thought Deidara's C0 jutsu was incredibly powerful so I ranked him high for being able to cause such a huge explosion. I personally never really bought into the Kisame hype; sure he was strong, but only when combined with his Samehada sword. Without his tail-less Bijuu mode, he could only use Water Release techniques which weren't that amazing imo. And Konan didn't really get a chance to shine and even her attempt to kill Obito didn't go off well. I like her a lot, but I don't think she was that powerful compared to the other Akatsuki members.

J Ken
20th November 2013, 11:21 PM
Intangibility aside Obito was able to keep up with Guy and KCM Naruto pretty easily and he was able to kill Konan pretty easily as soon as he took her seriously and went on offence so I wouldn't say that he wasn't much of a threat. He naturally has a whole lot of powerful abilities at his disposal Kishi just always chose to have him spam the Kamui instead of having hi use any of the abilities.

Lorde
20th November 2013, 11:26 PM
Intangibility aside Obito was able to keep up with Guy and KCM Naruto pretty easily and he was able to kill Konan pretty easily as soon as he took her seriously and went on offence so I wouldn't say that he wasn't much of a threat. He naturally has a whole lot of powerful abilities at his disposal Kishi just always chose to have him spam the Kamui instead of having hi use any of the abilities.

He stabbed Konan with a pike and interrogated her with genjutsu and left her to die if I remember correctly. That's not exactly ingenious though. He showed few combat abilities in retrospect. When he wasn't evading attacks, he preferred to sneak up on people and teleport them away. But he wasn't particularly powerful imo. He was just blessed with a hax Mangekyo Sharingan ability as well as other abilities that he practically stole like Wood Release and the Rinnegan.

LightningMaster95
20th November 2013, 11:29 PM
Naruto and the others only struggled against Obito because they couldn't touch him; it wasn't so much that Obito was powerful, it was just that his ability to become intangible made fighting him so difficult for many characters. As for Deidara, Kisame, and Konan's positions; I personally thought Deidara's C0 jutsu was incredibly powerful so I ranked him high for being able to cause such a huge explosion. I personally never really bought into the Kisame hype; sure he was strong, but only when combined with his Samehada sword. Without his tail-less Bijuu mode, he could only use Water Release techniques which weren't that amazing imo. And Konan didn't really get a chance to shine and even her attempt to kill Obito didn't go off well. I like her a lot, but I don't think she was that powerful compared to the other Akatsuki members.
abilities still count as powers thats like taking away kuruma away from naruto and eye techniques/powers from all the uchihas its their abilities and their knowledge on how to use them
again samaheda was kisame's so its his power to use and obito had to rely on a forbidden technique to win and she put up a decent match against jiraiya who was powerful

J Ken
21st November 2013, 12:28 AM
He stabbed Konan with a pike and interrogated her with genjutsu and left her to die if I remember correctly. That's not exactly ingenious though. He showed few combat abilities in retrospect. When he wasn't evading attacks, he preferred to sneak up on people and teleport them away. But he wasn't particularly powerful imo. He was just blessed with a hax Mangekyo Sharingan ability as well as other abilities that he practically stole like Wood Release and the Rinnegan.

His portrayal was the real problem with his abilities. He had so much to choose from yet in the end he constantly relied on 1 move that isn't particularly much of a offensive or powerhouse move. Imo Kishi focused too much on his Kamui and underhanded tactics and not enough on making him seem like a extremely powerful fighter.

Yeah he did have a hax Sharingan and stolen abilities but isn't that the Uchiha way? :p

Platinum fan.
21st November 2013, 12:54 AM
I agree with some of the stuff being said here. The only real reason I didn't tie Deidara or rank him higher then Sasori is because he himself said Sasori was stronger, but I always consider Deidara one of the Akatsuki's best warriors. It's kinda true about Kisame, much of his power comes from Samehade, but it still counts. But without it he...gets his head cut off, lol, double lariat XD seriously though I still think Kisame's a beast. He can fuse with the sword, creating that moving water prison, and steal chakra and absorb chakra attacks. His biggest weakness seems to be that Samehada has a mind of it's own and could betray him if it finds a better host with better chakra, and that's what happened in the end anyway.

As for Konan, she's only had like two fights against Jiraiya and Obito and she fought Shino's family offscreen. Jiraiya beat her pretty easy, but to be fair he's Jiraiya and a Sannin. She got a much better showing in the Obito fight but lost due to plot power on Obito's part. Konan fought two people she had no chance of winning against. Add in the fact that she's female in a Naruto series and there you have it. I think she's better then Hidan but hasn't been allowed to show her stuff.

LightningMaster95
21st November 2013, 1:17 AM
I agree with some of the stuff being said here. The only real reason I didn't tie Deidara or rank him higher then Sasori is because he himself said Sasori was stronger, but I always consider Deidara one of the Akatsuki's best warriors. It's kinda true about Kisame, much of his power comes from Samehade, but it still counts. But without it he...gets his head cut off, lol, double lariat XD seriously though I still think Kisame's a beast. He can fuse with the sword, creating that moving water prison, and steal chakra and absorb chakra attacks. His biggest weakness seems to be that Samehada has a mind of it's own and could betray him if it finds a better host with better chakra, and that's what happened in the end anyway.

As for Konan, she's only had like two fights against Jiraiya and Obito and she fought Shino's family offscreen. Jiraiya beat her pretty easy, but to be fair he's Jiraiya and a Sannin. She got a much better showing in the Obito fight but lost due to plot power on Obito's part. Konan fought two people she had no chance of winning against. Add in the fact that she's female in a Naruto series and there you have it. I think she's better then Hidan but hasn't been allowed to show her stuff.
remember that kisame was zetsu as kisame's real goal at that time was infiltrate the cloud iirc
and jiraiya knew about konan abiblities but she gave him a good fight and obito did have plot going for him also i wouldnt call obito's eye hax look at the person who taught him to master his sharingan/ms hes the most powerful character right now

Lorde
21st November 2013, 2:32 AM
Yeah he did have a hax Sharingan and stolen abilities but isn't that the Uchiha way? :p

Tee hee. Well let's just say that Obito's Kamui jutsu is even more broken than other Uchiha jutsu. Imagine if he had both his eyes; he would be practically invincible.

Also, I feel really bad for Hidan. He did very little which is why I ranked him low. He should've returned in the manga so that he could show off more jutsu, not just his immortality.

Jb
21st November 2013, 2:50 AM
There's no way Obito is stronger than Pain, or at least at the time. I can't see Obito avoiding Pain's gravity moves. His summons would also pose a huge problem, I think Pain has the strongest one's in the series. I'll avoid using the fight with Naruto to gauge current strength since Pain wasn't actually trying to kill him at the time. But it did take KB, Naruto and Itachi to take down Nagato, and that was by sealing.


I don't think anyone introduced in the series so far could take on Nagato one on one besides Madara and Harahima. I haven't been keeping up too much so sorry in advance if some facts are wrong.

CanadianGuyEh
21st November 2013, 3:56 PM
Just watched Episode 339, dem feels at the end ;_;

Pink Harzard
21st November 2013, 9:11 PM
Just watched Episode 339, dem feels at the end ;_;

I know that feeling. The writers did it again, making viewers cry.

Platinum fan.
21st November 2013, 10:17 PM
Tee hee. Well let's just say that Obito's Kamui jutsu is even more broken than other Uchiha jutsu. Imagine if he had both his eyes; he would be practically invincible.

Also, I feel really bad for Hidan. He did very little which is why I ranked him low. He should've returned in the manga so that he could show off more jutsu, not just his immortality.

It's kinda funny, Hidan killed a semi important character in Asuma and he's not ranked very high on anyone's Akatsuki power list. I just found Hidan not all that impressive compared to the other guys of the Akatsuki. I think his immortality has made him lazy. Several times in his fight with Asuma and his squad they dealt blows that should have killed him or at least taken him out of the fight. Asuma even cut off Hidan's head.

Lorde
21st November 2013, 10:25 PM
It's kinda funny, Hidan killed a semi important character in Asuma and he's not ranked very high on anyone's Akatsuki power list. I just found Hidan not all that impressive compared to the other guys of the Akatsuki. I think his immortality has made him lazy. Several times in his fight with Asuma and his squad they dealt blows that should have killed him or at least taken him out of the fight. Asuma even cut off Hidan's head.

Oops, I didn't even remember that he killed Asuma. But if I'm being honest, I don't consider that to be a big feat for Hidan. Had he killed an elite ninja like Kakashi on the other hand, I would've ranked him a lot higher. I kind of liked Hidan though if only because he has no redeemable qualities; he's a real villain who I doubt would ever turn good even with Naruto's talk no jutsu lol.

Platinum fan.
22nd November 2013, 12:41 AM
Oops, I didn't even remember that he killed Asuma. But if I'm being honest, I don't consider that to be a big feat for Hidan. Had he killed an elite ninja like Kakashi on the other hand, I would've ranked him a lot higher. I kind of liked Hidan though if only because he has no redeemable qualities; he's a real villain who I doubt would ever turn good even with Naruto's talk no jutsu lol.

Konoha treat Asuma like a elite ninja, but I personally never saw it. Kakashi and Guy are the only Jonin's that stayed main powerhouses in the series. Kurenai's pretty much retired as a ninja with her kid, and Asuma died. Overall Asuma and Kurenai never felt on the same level as Kakashi and Guy. I suppose we can start ranking other ninjas now.

Jb
22nd November 2013, 12:59 AM
Ok, how would guys rank the Konoha 11...er 12?

LightningMaster95
22nd November 2013, 4:55 AM
Ok, how would guys rank the Konoha 11...er 12?
naruto
sasuke(if he counts as one)
lee
neji
choji
shikamaru
hinata
ino
shino
kiba
tenten
sakura

Lorde
22nd November 2013, 5:03 AM
Ok, how would guys rank the Konoha 11...er 12?


Naruto
Sasuke
Sakura
Lee
Neji
Shikamaru
Choji
Shino
Kiba
Hinata
Ino
Tenten

I think Sakura deserves more credit than she's given so I ranked her high for being Tsunade's student and for being powerful even if she doesn't always show it. I also ranked Neji despite his death because he was at least powerful when he was alive. I also think there's a huge gap between Ino and Tenten.

CanadianGuyEh
22nd November 2013, 1:21 PM
I know that feeling. The writers did it again, making viewers cry.

Farewell dear Itachi Uchiha, you will be missed.. badass to the end. Now i can't wait to see next week's episode to see how it goes since Kabuto's reanimation jutsu got released.

Jb
22nd November 2013, 2:07 PM
The only people I would put over Shikamaru is maybe Sasuke tbh. Yeah, he's not so strong but I can't see the others beating him, not even Naruto. Sasuke maybe due to hax and he's slightly smarter than the other 10.

Platinum fan.
22nd November 2013, 4:26 PM
Ok, how would guys rank the Konoha 11...er 12?

This one will be a little trickier because I'm going to put in not just power but fighting styles and strength as well.
1: Naruto and Sasuke: Need I explain? These two are the top dogs of their generation.
2: Neji: He's powerful, has the Gentle Fist and Byakugan and is all around a deadly foe. He's the only one of the Konoha kids to make Jonin
3: Shikamaru: He's not powerful at all really, but it's his intellect, quick thinking, leadership, and well planned attacks that make him truly a great ninja. He's the greatest of the Chunin, as far as I'm concerned. I'm surprised he's not Jonin.
4: Lee: Rock Lee is a great fighter. He's no longer the physically strongest but his fighting style is better then all those stronger then him.
5: Shino: Shino is amazing. He's never lost a fight has he? His bugs are pretty awesome in how they fight and aide him and everyone views him as a powerful ally.
6: Sakura: Sakura is very powerful due to Tsunade's training but she lacks good fighting styles so I didn't rank her higher. She has great brute strength and is probably the most physically strong and she has good healing powers.
7: Choji: He use to be the strongest but with Sakura's Tsunade training, not anymore. He can still grow large and has become very useful to Konoha's ninjas. Choji's really improved and I'm proud of the character.
8: Hinata: Hinata has really improved. I wish I could rank her higher but she hasn't really had her true moment yet. But like Neji she's powerful. Maybe I should rank her higher then Choji?
9: Kiba: Never really had a great showing other then his fight with Naruto. He and Akamaru make a good team regardless and I'd say he's weaker then Sakura and Choji, but faster then both and that can make all the difference.
10: Ino's never been powerful but she's been useful as a support Ninja and the war arc made her very helpful on the field. So while she's not powerful she's far from useless. Like Choji and Hinata she's really improved.
11: Tenten: What can I say for poor Tenten?

This was much harder to do. Especially for Hinata and Choji. I might reverse those two.

LightningMaster95
22nd November 2013, 8:07 PM
i dont understand how people can rank sakura highly she is practically useless in this manga if it wasnt for plot sakura wouldve died in the beginning of shippuden during her fight with sasori and chiyo wouldve lived + she let neji die

J Ken
22nd November 2013, 8:23 PM
I don't think Sakura's as weak as people say she is. Yeah she might not have had the best showing but she's much more useful outside of her specialty medical ninjutsu. I mean yes Naruto and Sasuke fighting seriously would curbstomp her but for someone as weak as she was at first she has come a long way and deserves to be praised for her progress.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
22nd November 2013, 9:06 PM
I don't think Sakura's as weak as people say she is. Yeah she might not have had the best showing but she's much more useful outside of her specialty medical ninjutsu. I mean yes Naruto and Sasuke fighting seriously would curbstomp her but for someone as weak as she was at first she has come a long way and deserves to be praised for her progress.

Agreed. Most of the hate comes from the shipping wars. And I honestly cannot @ that because it's just about two fictional characters being in a relationship, I like both Sakura and Hinata. But, even though I am a big Sakura fan, I do know where some people are coming from outside of the shipping wars. Yeah Sakura was very bratty at the beginning and it continued until she was trained by Tsunade. I do wish she had more important fights, like against Sasori, but I like what she's been given so far.



she let neji die
Huh?

Lorde
22nd November 2013, 9:51 PM
i dont understand how people can rank sakura highly she is practically useless in this manga if it wasnt for plot sakura wouldve died in the beginning of shippuden during her fight with sasori and chiyo wouldve lived + she let neji die

She's extremely powerful; Kishi just refuses to give her a chance to prove herself. She's definitely the third strongest character in the Konoha 11/12 in my opinion. She has incredible healing powers, physical strength, knowledge, and her only real weakness is Sasuke to be frank.

J Ken
22nd November 2013, 11:01 PM
She's extremely powerful; Kishi just refuses to give her a chance to prove herself. She's definitely the third strongest character in the Konoha 11/12 in my opinion. She has incredible healing powers, physical strength, knowledge, and her only real weakness is Sasuke to be frank.

Tbh her biggest weakness like the biggest weakness of most of the cast is that they don't have a Sharingan/Tailed Beast to make them haxed enough to fight the bigger bads.

LightningMaster95
22nd November 2013, 11:05 PM
Agreed. Most of the hate comes from the shipping wars. And I honestly cannot @ that because it's just about two fictional characters being in a relationship, I like both Sakura and Hinata. But, even though I am a big Sakura fan, I do know where some people are coming from outside of the shipping wars. Yeah Sakura was very bratty at the beginning and it continued until she was trained by Tsunade. I do wish she had more important fights, like against Sasori, but I like what she's been given so far.
im not really a shipper because i dont see any development coming from any ship no matter what series it is. i just dont like sakura because she is too dependent on other people and the way she acts towards people who are not sasuke or tsunade



Huh?
http://www.mangahit.com/naruto/633/18
she knew she could heal severe wonds but didnt do anything to save neji


She's extremely powerful; Kishi just refuses to give her a chance to prove herself. She's definitely the third strongest character in the Konoha 11/12 in my opinion. She has incredible healing powers, physical strength, knowledge, and her only real weakness is Sasuke to be frank.
being physically strong does not mean your powerful,sakura has no counter to lee when he opens the gates,wont outsmart shikamaru,hinata and neji's gentle fist take away her strength,naruto and sasuke would curbstomp sakura

LightningMaster95
22nd November 2013, 11:13 PM
Tbh her biggest weakness like the biggest weakness of most of the cast is that they don't have a Sharingan/Tailed Beast to make them haxed enough to fight the bigger bads.

not completely true but i see the point your making
hashirama tobirama (alive)minato and the kages dont have those and yet they went up against them

Lorde
22nd November 2013, 11:15 PM
Tbh her biggest weakness like the biggest weakness of most of the cast is that they don't have a Sharingan/Tailed Beast to make them haxed enough to fight the bigger bads.

And yet we have characters like Shikamaru, who lacks Sharingan and a Tailed Beast and still managed to get practically an entire arc of development to himself. Kishi could have easily given Sakura a large role, but he didn't. He makes her seem useless when in reality she's a lot more competent than the fanbase gives her credit for; she's just unlucky and is constantly put in damsel-in-distress situations.

Platinum fan.
22nd November 2013, 11:33 PM
Sakura is powerful, there is no doubt about it. She's probably the most physically strong of the Konoha crew brute strength wise including over Naruto and Sasuke. That doesn't make her a better ninja then the others I'm afraid. I personally do not see Sakura ever defeating characters like Shikamaru, Rock Lee, Shino and such. Lee is faster then Sakura and a all around better fighter then her. Shikamaru can outsmart her and trap her, even against Hinata it would basically be a draw depending on who touches who first. This is why I ranked Sakura where I did. I don't think she's weak but she's not the best fighter either despite being trained by Tsunade.

Sakura doesn't get the credit she deserves and I think she gets unfair hate, but at the same time she's really not that big of a deal. Her biggest moment of defeating Sasori is only half true as it was Chiyo who dealt the killing blow and without Chiyo, Sakura would have been killed in Sasori's opening move. Sakura hasn't been allowed to shine and thus I can understand why many think the character is mediocre. I don't. For all the whining I do about Kishi never building up Sakura the right way, I do like the character. But I'm not going to pretend she's something she clearly is not. Poor Sakura :(

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
22nd November 2013, 11:37 PM
http://www.mangahit.com/naruto/633/18
she knew she could heal severe wonds but didnt do anything to save neji
I have no idea what chapter Neji died in, but she told Katsuyu to heal anyone with severe wounds. ._.

Lorde
22nd November 2013, 11:59 PM
I'm far from a Sakura fan myself; I'm only defending her because I think she has a lot of untapped potential that is unfortunately overshadowed by her flaws. Anyway, I don't blame her for what happened to Neji. I don't think she could've healed him, but if it's any consolation, I believe Neji will be revived at some point after the war, either with Rinne Tensei or some other resurrection technique. I just don't think Kishi will leave him dead.

LightningMaster95
23rd November 2013, 1:16 AM
@tuskie in chapter 614 neji gets pierced by the ten tails

i liked neji(in my top 5) but i think he needs to stay dead because no one else important died during this war and if he comes back than this war wouldve been more pointless than it is now the only thing that kept the pain arc interesting afterwards was that jiraiya stayed dead

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
23rd November 2013, 2:48 PM
Speaking of Jiraiya, I wish there was a way for us to know he sees Naruto's progression as a ninja. I know they'll say something like "he's watching you from above" or something along the lines. But I really think it would be nice to see that. It's just something I thought of awhile ago.

7 tyranitars
23rd November 2013, 5:29 PM
1 Naruto/Sasuke
2 Shikamaru
3 Neji
4 Choji
5 Lee
6 Sakura
7 Shino
8 Hinata
9 Kiba
10 Ino
11 Tenten

J Ken
23rd November 2013, 7:49 PM
not completely true but i see the point your making
hashirama tobirama (alive)minato and the kages dont have those and yet they went up against them

By cast I meant the shinobis of the current generation who are largely outclassed despite the fact that it is their duty to keep the world safe.


And yet we have characters like Shikamaru, who lacks Sharingan and a Tailed Beast and still managed to get practically an entire arc of development to himself. Kishi could have easily given Sakura a large role, but he didn't. He makes her seem useless when in reality she's a lot more competent than the fanbase gives her credit for; she's just unlucky and is constantly put in damsel-in-distress situations.

True but even by having that development Shikamaru was still very lacking in facing off against the Obito/Madara tier villains. Sakura's role wouldn't be too bad if she was a side character but as a main character the focus around her is severely lacking.

Lorde
23rd November 2013, 8:53 PM
Speaking of Jiraiya, I wish there was a way for us to know he sees Naruto's progression as a ninja. I know they'll say something like "he's watching you from above" or something along the lines. But I really think it would be nice to see that. It's just something I thought of awhile ago.

As far as I'm concerned, Jiraiya stopped being relevant after Pain's invasion. I think he managed to get some sort of closure in that arc once his former student decided to follow his dream. So I'm not really concerned with what Jiraiya thinks of Naruto's progression; I don't think we'll ever know what he thinks anyway since I doubt he'll be revived.

LightningMaster95
23rd November 2013, 9:13 PM
i think jiraiya should stay dead he went out like a true badass in the pain arc and i dont see how he will affect naruto anymore since he got over his death already
and i think kishi missed his chance to bring him back if orochimaru isnt a villian anymore(i think he is, hes just waiting for the right moment)

J Ken
23rd November 2013, 11:33 PM
I personally hope Jiraiya doesn't return, if he did then I'd feel like he would just be around for no other reason then to be there you know kinda like a majority of the alliance and even Orochimaru at this point.

Speaking of the Sannin how would you guys rank the 3 Sannin?

LightningMaster95
24th November 2013, 12:02 AM
I personally hope Jiraiya doesn't return, if he did then I'd feel like he would just be around for no other reason then to be there you know kinda like a majority of the alliance and even Orochimaru at this point.

Speaking of the Sannin how would you guys rank the 3 Sannin?

jiraiya
orochimaru(without edos second with edos he will be first)
tsunade

Lorde
24th November 2013, 12:13 AM
Speaking of the Sannin how would you guys rank the 3 Sannin?

I always considered Orochimaru to be the strongest simply because of his resilience and resourcefulness. I mean he knows a lot of jutsu apparently and could probably counter any of Jiraiya's techniques in a real battle. Too bad we'll never see them fighting against each other at full strength. And sadly, I think Tsunade is the weakest member of the Sannin.

insanejames
24th November 2013, 11:08 AM
I always considered Orochimaru to be the strongest simply because of his resilience and resourcefulness. I mean he knows a lot of jutsu apparently and could probably counter any of Jiraiya's techniques in a real battle. Too bad we'll never see them fighting against each other at full strength. And sadly, I think Tsunade is the weakest member of the Sannin.

i agree I think Jiraiya is as a better fighter but Orochimaru range of techniques give him an edge of Jiraiya and Tsunade is by far the weakest im my eyes but can also take the most punshimnet due to her Seal

LightningMaster95
24th November 2013, 2:34 PM
i just think jiraiya is the better fighter he didnt have to rely on healing or regeneration to win/live in his fights and im certain if he wasnt ambushed by pain he wouldve won that fight, also was able to deal with 4 tails naruto without trying to harm him

J Ken
24th November 2013, 2:48 PM
I always considered Orochimaru to be the strongest simply because of his resilience and resourcefulness. I mean he knows a lot of jutsu apparently and could probably counter any of Jiraiya's techniques in a real battle. Too bad we'll never see them fighting against each other at full strength. And sadly, I think Tsunade is the weakest member of the Sannin.

Tbh the only thing that ever messed up my views on Orochimaru was Kishi's constant need to have him get trolled by the Sharingan. I mean Itachi pwned him twice in like 10 seconds each and then Sasuke absorbed him with ease. I'd probably rank Jiraiya as the best in a power sense while Orochimaru is the best in a strategic sense while Tsunade is just weakest because of her somewhat lacking presence in comparison to the other two.

Platinum fan.
24th November 2013, 3:45 PM
Of the Sanin. Tsunade's the most physically strong of the three but I wouldn't put her as a better fighter. I guess it would be between Orochimaru and Jiraiya. I don't want to count Edo Tensei, because that's not really Orochimaru himself fighting it's him calling dead zombies to fight for him. He's not even calling the shots with the zombies really. Jiraiya has Sage Mode and was very powerful with it. He managed to defeat three of the Pain dolls without the info on their abilities that Naruto had and it took all six of them to kill him. Orochimaru's best achievements sadly have been through Edo Tensei. Without Edo Tensei he would not have been able to beat Hiruzen the way he did. Itachi doesn't fear Orochimaru at all but he is weary of Jiraiya. It's hard to determine who I would rank more powerful. Orochimaru and Tsunade both have the cheap regenerating power allowing them to survive things that would normally kill a regular person, and Jiraiya does not have that. Darn, I can't decide who would be more powerful.

LightningMaster95
24th November 2013, 5:20 PM
Tbh the only thing that ever messed up my views on Orochimaru was Kishi's constant need to have him get trolled by the Sharingan. I mean Itachi pwned him twice in like 10 seconds each and then Sasuke absorbed him with ease. I'd probably rank Jiraiya as the best in a power sense while Orochimaru is the best in a strategic sense while Tsunade is just weakest because of her somewhat lacking presence in comparison to the other two.

in orochimaru's defense it was itachi, who hasnt gotten beat by his genjutsu lol and sasuke even admitted that he only beat orochimaru because he was weak and if edo tensei doesnt count as his power than he should be second

Lorde
24th November 2013, 9:47 PM
Tbh the only thing that ever messed up my views on Orochimaru was Kishi's constant need to have him get trolled by the Sharingan. I mean Itachi pwned him twice in like 10 seconds each and then Sasuke absorbed him with ease. I'd probably rank Jiraiya as the best in a power sense while Orochimaru is the best in a strategic sense while Tsunade is just weakest because of her somewhat lacking presence in comparison to the other two.

To be frank, I'm sure Jiraiya would be just as susceptible to the Sharingan as Orochimaru. I mean supposedly Jiraiya was terrible at genjutsu so I'm assuming that if he faced Itachi in a battle he would easily get caught in his genjutsu. The Sharingan trolls everyone which is an unfortunate reality in this manga.

J Ken
24th November 2013, 10:36 PM
in orochimaru's defense it was itachi, who hasnt gotten beat by his genjutsu lol and sasuke even admitted that he only beat orochimaru because he was weak and if edo tensei doesnt count as his power than he should be second

Yeah I'm just a little upset at how far Orohimaru has fallen as a threat ever since his glory days in part 1.


To be frank, I'm sure Jiraiya would be just as susceptible to the Sharingan as Orochimaru. I mean supposedly Jiraiya was terrible at genjutsu so I'm assuming that if he faced Itachi in a battle he would easily get caught in his genjutsu. The Sharingan trolls everyone which is an unfortunate reality in this manga.

True. I'm just bitter at how Orochimaru went from badass to pansy all just to glorify the Sharingan even more. But as you said that's the case for everyone.

LightningMaster95
24th November 2013, 11:12 PM
To be frank, I'm sure Jiraiya would be just as susceptible to the Sharingan as Orochimaru. I mean supposedly Jiraiya was terrible at genjutsu so I'm assuming that if he faced Itachi in a battle he would easily get caught in his genjutsu. The Sharingan trolls everyone which is an unfortunate reality in this manga.

maybe in base mode but not sage mode since he the frogs to wake him up and he said he wasnt good at using genjutsu but was good enough in recognizing when he was caught in genjutsu

insanejames
24th November 2013, 11:49 PM
This one will be a little trickier because I'm going to put in not just power but fighting styles and strength as well.
1: Naruto and Sasuke: Need I explain? These two are the top dogs of their generation.
2: Neji: He's powerful, has the Gentle Fist and Byakugan and is all around a deadly foe. He's the only one of the Konoha kids to make Jonin
3: Shikamaru: He's not powerful at all really, but it's his intellect, quick thinking, leadership, and well planned attacks that make him truly a great ninja. He's the greatest of the Chunin, as far as I'm concerned. I'm surprised he's not Jonin.
4: Lee: Rock Lee is a great fighter. He's no longer the physically strongest but his fighting style is better then all those stronger then him.
5: Shino: Shino is amazing. He's never lost a fight has he? His bugs are pretty awesome in how they fight and aide him and everyone views him as a powerful ally.
6: Sakura: Sakura is very powerful due to Tsunade's training but she lacks good fighting styles so I didn't rank her higher. She has great brute strength and is probably the most physically strong and she has good healing powers.
7: Choji: He use to be the strongest but with Sakura's Tsunade training, not anymore. He can still grow large and has become very useful to Konoha's ninjas. Choji's really improved and I'm proud of the character.
8: Hinata: Hinata has really improved. I wish I could rank her higher but she hasn't really had her true moment yet. But like Neji she's powerful. Maybe I should rank her higher then Choji?
9: Kiba: Never really had a great showing other then his fight with Naruto. He and Akamaru make a good team regardless and I'd say he's weaker then Sakura and Choji, but faster then both and that can make all the difference.
10: Ino's never been powerful but she's been useful as a support Ninja and the war arc made her very helpful on the field. So while she's not powerful she's far from useless. Like Choji and Hinata she's really improved.
11: Tenten: What can I say for poor Tenten?

This was much harder to do. Especially for Hinata and Choji. I might reverse those two.

you read my mind and said it perfectly

Lorde
24th November 2013, 11:54 PM
maybe in base mode but not sage mode since he the frogs to wake him up and he said he wasnt good at using genjutsu but was good enough in recognizing when he was caught in genjutsu

The frogs wouldn't be of much use against Mangekyo Sharingan genjutsu like Tsukuyomi though; when Chiyo explained how to dispel genjutsu by having a partner wake up the person who was under genjutsu, Kakashi pointed out that that would work with regular genjutsu, but not with genjutsu cast by the Mangekyo Sharingan. I think Jiraiya would be a sitting duck against Itachi, despite what Itachi previously stated about them only being able to tie with each other if they ever fought.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
25th November 2013, 12:49 AM
I think Orochimaru is the strongest. During their fight in Part 1, Orochimaru showed that he could handle both Tsunade de and Jiraiya. Not together, but without the usuage of his arms, he did pretty well, but they all were handicapped at the time. Orochimaru couldn't use his hands, Tsuande was petrified and Jiraiya was drugged, but Tsunade did get over her phobia later on in the fight. I know that was Part 1 and a lot has happened, but that fight was beast.

1)Orochimaru
2)Tsunade
3)Jiraiya

LightningMaster95
25th November 2013, 1:15 AM
how would u guys rank the hokages
for me i rank them in overall power(strategy reflexes etc.) not just by raw power
minato
tobirama
hashirama
sarutobi
tsunade

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
25th November 2013, 1:20 AM
For me I rank them by the number Kage they are. So, Hasirama being the strongest and Tsunade being the weakest of the five. But then I think about Hiruzen, I sometimes think he's the weakest. But I don't know how strong he was in his prime though.

Lorde
25th November 2013, 1:22 AM
For me I rank them by the number Kage they are. So, Hasirama being the strongest and Tsunade being the weakest of the five.

I don't know. Minato seems a lot stronger than Hiruzen for instance, who was the third Hokage. For me it goes: Hashirama > Minato > Tobirama > Hiruzen > Tsunade.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
25th November 2013, 1:23 AM
I don't know. Minato seems a lot stronger than Hiruzen for instance, who was the third Hokage. For me it goes: Hashirama > Minato > Tobirama > Hiruzen > Tsunade.

Yeah, I forgot to add that about Hiruzen. I think he or Tsunade are the weakest.

J Ken
25th November 2013, 1:27 AM
Overall I'd put them as Tobirama> Minato> Hashirama> Hiruzen> Tsunade. Tobirama goes first for me because of how much of a better tactician he is then his brother and how he is able to think more calmly then the others. Plus as Hashi's little bro he must be somewhere around his league regardless at how underrated he is.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
25th November 2013, 1:31 AM
I agree with you Ken. Even though I prefer Tobirama over Hashirama, he is underrated compared to him. But, being a tactician would usually have the upper hand in battle, that's sometimes sadly.

Lorde
25th November 2013, 1:33 AM
I don't think Tobirama is a better ninja than Hashirama. I mean Hashirama was able to go toe-to-toe with Madara and actually defeat him; I doubt Tobirama could've done the same thing. Also, poor Tsunade. She's the lowest ranked in both the Sannin and among the Hokage.

J Ken
25th November 2013, 1:43 AM
I agree with you Ken. Even though I prefer Tobirama over Hashirama, he is underrated compared to him. But, being a tactician would usually have the upper hand in battle, that's sometimes sadly.

I always felt that as a ninja Hashirama's overly righteous heart was his biggest weakness which is why I view Tobirama as more efficient as a shinobi.


I don't think Tobirama is a better ninja than Hashirama. I mean Hashirama was able to go toe-to-toe with Madara and actually defeat him; I doubt Tobirama could've done the same thing. Also, poor Tsunade. She's the lowest ranked in both the Sannin and among the Hokage.

Personally I view Tobirama as a better ninja because to me being a ninja doesn't really revolve around strength yes it's an important aspect of being a ninja but I feel like there are much more qualities outside of strength which Tobirama thrives in better then his brother. Tsunade's reign as Hokage was pretty underwhelming considering how little she actually got to do since she started along with how weak it seems in comparison to all the feats and hype all the past Hokages had.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
25th November 2013, 1:55 AM
Tsunade's reign as Hokage was pretty underwhelming considering how little she actually got to do since she started along with how weak it seems in comparison to all the feats and hype all the past Hokages had.

Yeah, she only got two important fights. I would have loved her fight Pain too, even though the end result would have been distasteful.

Platinum fan.
25th November 2013, 2:18 AM
The Hokages? Hmm.
1: Hashirma
2: Minato
3: Hiruzen
4: Tobimara
5: Tsunade

The reason I ranked Tobimara where I did is basically I haven't seen him in action much so what can I do? I was going to rank him higher then Hiruzen, but there was a period where the manga treated Hiruzen like the best, then they did that with Minato and now Hashirama. So that's why sadly ranked Tobimara where I did. No disrespect to him as a Hokage though.

LightningMaster95
25th November 2013, 2:24 AM
The Hokages? Hmm.
1: Hashirma
2: Minato
3: Hiruzen
4: Tobimara
5: Tsunade

The reason I ranked Tobimara where I did is basically I haven't seen him in action much so what can I do? I was going to rank him higher then Hiruzen, but there was a period where the manga treated Hiruzen like the best, then they did that with Minato and now Hashirama. So that's why sadly ranked Tobimara where I did. No disrespect to him as a Hokage though.
have u seen how tobirama is in action against obito or are you an anime only person? because tobirama showed hes not a weak hokage and to add to his rep he killed madara's little brother who was stated to be on par with madara

Lorde
25th November 2013, 2:31 AM
The Hokages? Hmm.
1: Hashirma
2: Minato
3: Hiruzen
4: Tobimara
5: Tsunade

The reason I ranked Tobimara where I did is basically I haven't seen him in action much so what can I do? I was going to rank him higher then Hiruzen, but there was a period where the manga treated Hiruzen like the best, then they did that with Minato and now Hashirama. So that's why sadly ranked Tobimara where I did. No disrespect to him as a Hokage though.

I put Tobirama in the middle since he seems intelligent and capable, but that's pretty much all I can say about him. I know he specializes in water jutsu, but if I remember correctly, he's only used one since he was revived during the war, and even his teleportation abilities seem redundant when compared to Minato who showcased them first.

Platinum fan.
25th November 2013, 3:44 AM
have u seen how tobirama is in action against obito or are you an anime only person? because tobirama showed hes not a weak hokage and to add to his rep he killed madara's little brother who was stated to be on par with madara

I don't watch the anime. I don't know if you were a member of this forum at the time, but I've done mini rants about why I don't watch the anime of Naruto. I still rank Hiruzen above Tobimara. Hiruzen, at one point like Minato, was praised for being one of the best if not the best Hokage. Hashirama takes the cake now. But anyway, Hiruzen had to battle zombie Hashirama and Tobimara, along with Orochimaru being there as well, and he did all this while he was a old man and it was no longer in his prime. According to the Anbu if Hiruzen was young and in his prime he could have beaten the Edo Tensei's and Orochimaru but his old age had caught up with him. Even with the old age handicap he still managed to seal zombie Hashirama and Tobimara and cripple Orochimaru severely before dying himself. I know these Edo Tensei weren't as strong as the ones fighting now, but for part 1 standards they were still pretty invincible. Again I said no disrespect to Tobimara, I just consider Hiruzen a little better.

LightningMaster95
25th November 2013, 5:29 AM
I don't watch the anime. I don't know if you were a member of this forum at the time, but I've done mini rants about why I don't watch the anime of Naruto. I still rank Hiruzen above Tobimara. Hiruzen, at one point like Minato, was praised for being one of the best if not the best Hokage. Hashirama takes the cake now. But anyway, Hiruzen had to battle zombie Hashirama and Tobimara, along with Orochimaru being there as well, and he did all this while he was a old man and it was no longer in his prime. According to the Anbu if Hiruzen was young and in his prime he could have beaten the Edo Tensei's and Orochimaru but his old age had caught up with him. Even with the old age handicap he still managed to seal zombie Hashirama and Tobimara and cripple Orochimaru severely before dying himself. I know these Edo Tensei weren't as strong as the ones fighting now, but for part 1 standards they were still pretty invincible. Again I said no disrespect to Tobimara, I just consider Hiruzen a little better.
well i only watch the canon episodes of naruto because i like to see the manga animated. i think kishimoto only hyped up the 3rd because he was the only living hokage and tried to show the title of hokage as being powerful and kishi obviously scapped the idea of sarutobi being powerful.we saw a glimpse of prime hiruzen when obito attacked the village he was 10 years younger but the only thing he did was push out kurama

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
25th November 2013, 12:44 PM
But anyway, Hiruzen had to battle zombie Hashirama and Tobimara, along with Orochimaru being there as well, and he did all this while he was a old man and it was no longer in his prime. According to the Anbu if Hiruzen was young and in his prime he could have beaten the Edo Tensei's and Orochimaru but his old age had caught up with him. Even with the old age handicap he still managed to seal zombie Hashirama and Tobimara and cripple Orochimaru severely before dying himself. I know these Edo Tensei weren't as strong as the ones fighting now, but for part 1 standards they were still pretty invincible. Again I said no disrespect to Tobimara, I just consider Hiruzen a little better.
I can't believe I had forgotten about such a huge fight. If he had fought them when he was younger I'm sure the outcome would have been different. Looks like I have to change my rankings.

Lorde
25th November 2013, 8:40 PM
I don't watch the anime. I don't know if you were a member of this forum at the time, but I've done mini rants about why I don't watch the anime of Naruto. I still rank Hiruzen above Tobimara. Hiruzen, at one point like Minato, was praised for being one of the best if not the best Hokage. Hashirama takes the cake now. But anyway, Hiruzen had to battle zombie Hashirama and Tobimara, along with Orochimaru being there as well, and he did all this while he was a old man and it was no longer in his prime. According to the Anbu if Hiruzen was young and in his prime he could have beaten the Edo Tensei's and Orochimaru but his old age had caught up with him. Even with the old age handicap he still managed to seal zombie Hashirama and Tobimara and cripple Orochimaru severely before dying himself. I know these Edo Tensei weren't as strong as the ones fighting now, but for part 1 standards they were still pretty invincible. Again I said no disrespect to Tobimara, I just consider Hiruzen a little better.

As you said though, Hashirama and Tobirama weren't as strong when they were revived back then, and it's not like Hiruzen totally defeated them either; he had to use the Repear Death Seal which was a double-edged sword. He just sealed the two Hokage and then went after Orochimaru but failed to kill him. I don't consider Hiruzen to be that powerful. I think he was just more hyped in Part 1.

Jb
26th November 2013, 2:31 PM
Ok, since we debated that,

How about Kakashi vs Guy?

I think Guy beats Kakashi out, if even just a little.

LightningMaster95
26th November 2013, 5:00 PM
Ok, since we debated that,

How about Kakashi vs Guy?

I think Guy beats Kakashi out, if even just a little.
i would have to say kakashi he was portrayed as being the strongest ninja konoha had behind jiraiya and naruto and kakashi can spam kumai one shot kill

Lorde
26th November 2013, 9:09 PM
Ok, since we debated that,

How about Kakashi vs Guy?

I think Guy beats Kakashi out, if even just a little.

I would've said Kakashi a few years ago, but I have to go with Guy. He's really strong especially when he does the Eight Inner Gates thing. Despite Kakashi's fame, I think he's an average ninja at best. He had a lot of hype but he hasn't lived up to it; even his moments of glory have been tarnished one way or another by someone overshadowing him.

Platinum fan.
26th November 2013, 9:21 PM
I'm going with Guy. His moves may have funny names such as Afternoon Tiger and Morning Peacock, but man is this guy (lol) powerful. Opening the Inner Gates to become even stronger, and even without them he's incredibly fast and strong. I hope Rock Lee can become as powerful as Guy someday, of course he'd need to actually get some fights again. Kakashi is great as well, the only problem is he gets exhausted too easily, but it's understandable as his body isn't made for Sharingan abuse like Sasuke's is.

Jb
26th November 2013, 9:27 PM
Yeah I think that's a big one. Guy simply has too much stamina. Even if Kakashi was stronger, he'd just tire out way to quickly to defend against guy.

LightningMaster95
26th November 2013, 10:24 PM
have u guys not seen kakashi in this war? hes been using the sharingan and ms through out the whole war yes he had low stamina before but kishimoto changed that greatly in part 2 and kakashi is smarter than guy in almost everything
if he opens all 8 its a tie
7 gates guy will tire himself out and kakashi doesnt got straight into a battle so guy will be waisting stamina faster than kakashi
6 gates kakashi can handle this with ms

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
27th November 2013, 1:09 AM
I love both of them, because they're both kickass. It is true Guy has more stamina, but I'm going to go with Kakashi with this one.

Platinum fan.
27th November 2013, 1:37 AM
have u guys not seen kakashi in this war? hes been using the sharingan and ms through out the whole war yes he had low stamina before but kishimoto changed that greatly in part 2 and kakashi is smarter than guy in almost everything
if he opens all 8 its a tie
7 gates guy will tire himself out and kakashi doesnt got straight into a battle so guy will be waisting stamina faster than kakashi
6 gates kakashi can handle this with ms

It just changed for the war so Kakashi could be a part of it without going periods of needing bed rest. He still gets exhausted from using Sharingan in part 2 and MS is even worse for him. After using it to save everyone from Deidara during the arc to save Gaara he was out of commission and had to be on bed rest for awhile, Guy had to carry him back home. That's when Yamato came in. He got a lucky break during the Hidan and Kakuzu battle because Naruto basically did all the work defeating Kakuzu with Kakashi dealing the cleanup/death blow and even admitted while he could have beaten Kakuzu with MS he'd be in bed again. Kakashi's not weak, he's one of Konoha's best shinobi and without a doubt Hokage material regardless of his reluctance. Guy has better stamina then Kakashi. Even after battling Kisame, he still had enough energy to stand on his own and even try and recapture Kisame after he escaped from Yamato's wood prison. It took awhile for Guy to finally lose strength and need healing. It could be anyone's fight if they were to actually fight. It would depend on how they counter each other. Kakashi would have to use MS because Guy can counter regular Sharingan.

Edit: And just so everyone knows, I like Kakashi more then Guy. I like both characters and am pleased they both stayed powerful and didn't fall by the side like their buddies Asuma and Kurenai.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
27th November 2013, 2:05 AM
Edit: And just so everyone knows, I like Kakashi more then Guy. I like both characters and am pleased they both stayed powerful and didn't fall by the side like their buddies Asuma and Kurenai.
OMG Don't get me started on these two. When I had I catch up with the series by re-watching everything, I was shocked that Asuma and Kurenai hardly got anything. Kurenai only got that one arc and Asuma died in his second arc. Sucks. :/

Lorde
27th November 2013, 2:21 AM
Edit: And just so everyone knows, I like Kakashi more then Guy. I like both characters and am pleased they both stayed powerful and didn't fall by the side like their buddies Asuma and Kurenai.

I like Kakashi more than Guy too, but I think Guy is stronger. And I really never cared for Asuma and Kurenai to be honest. They were always meant to be minor characters with little development imo. I do feel bad for Kurenai though; she only fought once in the manga and it was against Itachi and she stood no chance against him.

LightningMaster95
27th November 2013, 2:56 AM
It just changed for the war so Kakashi could be a part of it without going periods of needing bed rest. He still gets exhausted from using Sharingan in part 2 and MS is even worse for him. After using it to save everyone from Deidara during the arc to save Gaara he was out of commission and had to be on bed rest for awhile, Guy had to carry him back home. That's when Yamato came in. He got a lucky break during the Hidan and Kakuzu battle because Naruto basically did all the work defeating Kakuzu with Kakashi dealing the cleanup/death blow and even admitted while he could have beaten Kakuzu with MS he'd be in bed again. Kakashi's not weak, he's one of Konoha's best shinobi and without a doubt Hokage material regardless of his reluctance. Guy has better stamina then Kakashi. Even after battling Kisame, he still had enough energy to stand on his own and even try and recapture Kisame after he escaped from Yamato's wood prison. It took awhile for Guy to finally lose strength and need healing. It could be anyone's fight if they were to actually fight. It would depend on how they counter each other. Kakashi would have to use MS because Guy can counter regular Sharingan.

Edit: And just so everyone knows, I like Kakashi more then Guy. I like both characters and am pleased they both stayed powerful and didn't fall by the side like their buddies Asuma and Kurenai.
even before the war actually started he used the ms multiple times against pain and sasuke, and with the match against kakuzu and hidan is not a good example because he kept on rescuing the others until naruto came in.
i like both as well but i still say kakashi wins since he uses more dangerous moves.

what i want to know is how come obito and kakashi never went blind? they both spammed the hell out of the ms

insanejames
27th November 2013, 5:58 AM
even before the war actually started he used the ms multiple times against pain and sasuke, and with the match against kakuzu and hidan is not a good example because he kept on rescuing the others until naruto came in.
i like both as well but i still say kakashi wins since he uses more dangerous moves.

what i want to know is how come obito and kakashi never went blind? they both spammed the hell out of the ms

kakashi never when blind because it wasn't his eyes im pretty sure, obito not idea maybe the regenerative powers of the white goo what was his body heal it.


On a different note the manga is back and YES YES YES sure obito turned good but Mandara is back yea this is good a true final villain, im kind of glad and sad the almost sealing of him happen in faceback but hey his back now and he might take control of one or two the tailed beasts that would even things out a bit

Lorde
27th November 2013, 6:09 AM
Most of the chapter was just build up to Madara's little scheme, but it was nice to see Gaara interact with Shukaku a bit and seeing the other Bijuu decide to help. I kind of knew that Obito would plan on using Rinne Tensei to save everyone, although I suppose I'm glad that Black Zetsu finally returned and took over so that Madara could be revived. I'm not sure what the point of that is though; since the Bijuu were released, doesn't that mean that Madara can't become the Juubi's jinchuuriki anyway?

lolipiece
27th November 2013, 7:47 AM
Ugh.

The final final boss is here. Kill him and get it on with already...

JD
27th November 2013, 10:34 AM
I actually liked this chapter the interaction between Gaara and Shukaku was neat.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
27th November 2013, 1:27 PM
I'm not really sure what happened. Did Madara absorb Obito? And if Obito would have used that jutsu, Neji would have been revived. Oh the feels. D:

XanderCage
27th November 2013, 2:27 PM
I'm not really sure what happened. Did Madara absorb Obito? And if Obito would have used that jutsu, Neji would have been revived. Oh the feels. D:

I believe Madara used Black Zetsu to impart his own will on Obito to force him to use the Rinne Tensei to only revive himself instead of those killed in the war. I wonder if Madara didn't do this if Obito would have revived the Edo Kages and give Naruto a living dad again?

Platinum fan.
27th November 2013, 2:46 PM
What? So Naruto's back already? So much for 2014. The chapter was just meh. Gaara interacting with Shukaku was the only thing I actually liked in it. I remember when these two just liked to kill things, it's nice that Shukaku got to have a speaking role with Gaara as I always wondered what the two would say to each other now. Minato just felt like a bigger Naruto ripoff then ever after seeing him talk to the Kyuubi within him. I did like how Obito was about to pull a Nagato and revive everyone only for Black Zetsu to stop him. I guess they finally remembered Black Zetsu still existed. The whole thing about Madara becoming whole again, it sounds good for him, but doesn't that mean he's mortal now? So can't he run out of Chakra now, and actually have mortal limits? Either way I can't wait for Madara to finally be defeated.

RIN IS ALWAYS WATCHING YOU!

XanderCage
27th November 2013, 2:58 PM
Madara becoming live again has advantages and disadvantages. As an Edo, the Shinobi Alliance could seal him now that he is the only villain left. It has been shown that an Edo can be sealed while they are regenerating so that could happen with an entire focus on him. Now that he is alive, he doesn't have to worry about being sealed. Yes, he is mortal, but my guess is that he has more confidence in his evasion skills now that his life is on the line than the chances of him to be sealed. It also seems as though he gained a bit of power with his real body as he busted through that containment that Hasirama put on him.

Also, it had been said, I believe, that in order to become the Juubi's jinchuriki, that the host has to be alive. That will probably happen now.

Platinum fan.
27th November 2013, 3:46 PM
Well I personally want to see Madara get exhausted after about 10 minutes with his new mortal body. He's been dead for years and now has a living breathing body again, he should have limits from the start. It could give the alliance the edge. Personally I still don't care for the Madara character. He's fighting a war he lost ages ago. I don't care about his motives or his rivalry with Hashirama. The only thing I find interesting about him is he got to Obito before Orochimaru did.

LightningMaster95
27th November 2013, 4:28 PM
Well I personally want to see Madara get exhausted after about 10 minutes with his new mortal body. He's been dead for years and now has a living breathing body again, he should have limits from the start. It could give the alliance the edge. Personally I still don't care for the Madara character. He's fighting a war he lost ages ago. I don't care about his motives or his rivalry with Hashirama. The only thing I find interesting about him is he got to Obito before Orochimaru did.

exactly why would he run out of chakra after ten minutes when he fought with hashirama for a whole day, personally madara is the only badass character left in this manga

realwestonprice
27th November 2013, 5:22 PM
exactly why would he run out of chakra after ten minutes when he fought with hashirama for a whole day, personally madara is the only badass character left in this manga

I agree. Madara is the only real villain in the whole series in my opinion (except for maybe Orochimaru, we still don't know what he could be planning). Obito turned out to be much less interesting once he lost his mask and really was exposed as a character. I think Madara will succeed in becoming the jinchuriki that I hoped Obito would be when he absorbed the Juubi and this "last" fight should get pretty good.

Joltik-Kid
27th November 2013, 6:33 PM
Ugh.

The final final boss is here. Kill him and get it on with already...
Still not gonna be over, Sasuke vs Naruto is gonna happen

Jb
27th November 2013, 8:55 PM
Then the Sage of Six Paths and his sons get revived and oh boy

Lorde
27th November 2013, 9:04 PM
I feel bad for Obito; given that he used Rinne Tensei, he's likely dead now and he didn't get a chance to redeem himself. I do think it was nice to see Black Zetsu again; I thought he would be written out of the story, but seeing him return for something important was cool. It makes sense that he would betray Obito since he's basically Madara's "will."

Shneak
27th November 2013, 11:19 PM
Oh my god.

Just when I thought I was going to write this manga off, my interest has been restored.

It's about time that Obito used the Rinne Rebirth. I think most of us expected it, but not in this way. I'm not sure what Obito meant to do with it. If he was trying to revive everybody like Nagato did, then screw that. But Madara got to him anyway. Christ, Madara was ruthless.

Madara becoming mortal basically means that he can be killed now. But I hope we get an actual good fight to end this war.

LightningMaster95
28th November 2013, 2:13 AM
i cant believe this manga is actually ending next year but its good that kishimoto is tying up some loose ends like shukaku and gaara

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
28th November 2013, 3:21 AM
I think Madara knows exactly what he's doing. If he knows the jutsu will make him mortal and give him the limits that ever human has, then why would he do it when he could have stayed reanimated with limitless chakra and an immortal body? I don't know, but I think there's more to it. :/

LightningMaster95
28th November 2013, 3:48 AM
I think Madara knows exactly what he's doing. If he knows the jutsu will make him mortal and give him the limits that ever human has, then why would he do it when he could have stayed reanimated with limitless chakra and an immortal body? I don't know, but I think there's more to it. :/

i think its one of these 2 things madara is aiming for
1. becoming the ten tails jinchuriki
2. eat the fruit from the tree

J Ken
28th November 2013, 3:49 AM
I think Madara knows exactly what he's doing. If he knows the jutsu will make him mortal and give him the limits that ever human has, then why would he do it when he could have stayed reanimated with limitless chakra and an immortal body? I don't know, but I think there's more to it. :/

There probably is something more to it. But even if there wasn't Madara would have wanted to become mortal again regardless of the consequences considering how that was his plan from the start and how he's such a perfectionist.

Lorde
28th November 2013, 3:54 AM
I think Madara knows exactly what he's doing. If he knows the jutsu will make him mortal and give him the limits that ever human has, then why would he do it when he could have stayed reanimated with limitless chakra and an immortal body? I don't know, but I think there's more to it. :/

There has to be a motive for his actions, although I don't believe that his plan to become the Juubi's jinchuuriki will work anymore given that the Bijuu are free from the Gedo Mazo statue. At least this means that regular sealing techniques will work against him. That's if the Alliance stops him from completing what ever scheme he has up his sleeve now.

J Ken
28th November 2013, 4:05 AM
I think it's probably just me but I personally hope that if there are any important casualties I hope it's Hashirama. I personally don't have anything against him but his and Madara's feud was kinda irritating and personally the best closure is if Madara gets some much needed retribution against him before finally getting taken out once and for all.

LightningMaster95
28th November 2013, 4:16 AM
the one problem i had with this chapter is that we found out hashirama cant do a sealing jutsu -__- the god of shinobi, husband to someone from the uzumaki clan never learned how to do it by himself
but i did like the jiraiya refernce from obito and how he should be the one to recieve the credit for obito losing

Lorde
28th November 2013, 5:30 AM
I think it's probably just me but I personally hope that if there are any important casualties I hope it's Hashirama. I personally don't have anything against him but his and Madara's feud was kinda irritating and personally the best closure is if Madara gets some much needed retribution against him before finally getting taken out once and for all.

Hashirama already died though, so him dying again wouldn't have much of an impact, although it would clear the field for Naruto to fight Madara instead. I want more deaths to happen, but the Edo Tensei Hokage dying wouldn't really satisfy me if I'm being honest. I just don't count them as real, living characters.

TsukiMirage
28th November 2013, 4:02 PM
I'm probably more happy about Obito finally being dead then I should be. Anyway, I love the twist by Madara, through I'm not sure why he would want to be alive at this point. We already seen the whole Juubi Jinchuuriki trick, so Madara repeating would seem weak. And it was interesting to learn that Edo Madara wasn't at full strength. Nice reappearance by Black Zetsu. Very interesting chapter.

-Raiga-
28th November 2013, 6:25 PM
Wow that was a garbage chapter.

It certainly didn't help that when I searched for the chapter in google, many of the results mentioned there was a huge twist. I was certainly expecting more than madara making himself weaker, that's for sure.

Platinum fan.
28th November 2013, 6:47 PM
Hashirama already died though, so him dying again wouldn't have much of an impact, although it would clear the field for Naruto to fight Madara instead. I want more deaths to happen, but the Edo Tensei Hokage dying wouldn't really satisfy me if I'm being honest. I just don't count them as real, living characters.

I don't really care that much about anyone who's a Edo Tensei zombie, or who's name is Madara Uchiha. Hashirama dying would be pointless. He's already dead, which is why this fight doesn't feel like much is on the line between them. Naruto and Sasuke will make it out because they are the two most important characters and will likely become even more legendary after this war. The dead Hokages just feel like they could all be killed off and nothing major would come of it because they are already dead.

I'm sorry but I'm still not a fan of this fanfic fight of the dead Hokages coming back to life to fight Madara. Really? You couldn't have put the alliance in this spot to backup Naruto and Sasuke, who are clearly going to deal the final blow to Madara anyway, we have to bring back the old Hokages after they were supposed to be sealed away after what Hiruzen did? Even after the war we'll still have Orochimaru to deal with if he goes rogue. Again, I don't know how much of a threat he'll be to the likes of Naruto and Sasuke but we'll see. I just want to get to Naruto vs Sasuke already!

LightningMaster95
28th November 2013, 7:45 PM
Wow that was a garbage chapter.

It certainly didn't help that when I searched for the chapter in google, many of the results mentioned there was a huge twist. I was certainly expecting more than madara making himself weaker, that's for sure.

how exactly is he weaker when edo madara couldnt break out of hashirama's control but a living madara can?

@platinum fan because individually they cant beat madara and he already showed he can take on the alliance by himself thats why they need the hokages, and i believe he will get the fruit from the tree to make himself more powerful than obito was as a jinchuriki

Lorde
28th November 2013, 8:21 PM
Wow that was a garbage chapter.

It certainly didn't help that when I searched for the chapter in google, many of the results mentioned there was a huge twist. I was certainly expecting more than madara making himself weaker, that's for sure.

I'm sure there's a reason why he made himself weaker by becoming human again. Anyway, I should gives props to Sai for at least attempting to seal Madara with his sealing jutsu. I suspect that Gaara and the Bijuu will attempt to seal Madara in the next chapter, only to fail of course. I wonder if Gaara dying again would have an impact on the story.

J Ken
28th November 2013, 9:32 PM
I'm sure there's a reason why he made himself weaker by becoming human again. Anyway, I should gives props to Sai for at least attempting to seal Madara with his sealing jutsu. I suspect that Gaara and the Bijuu will attempt to seal Madara in the next chapter, only to fail of course. I wonder if Gaara dying again would have an impact on the story.

Not really. I mean he's already died once and we've already had quite a few side characters die already and honestly I don't really see a point in him dying considering he already had a close call after getting curbstomped with the other Kages against Madara before.

Shneak
29th November 2013, 12:38 AM
It's fairly obvious (unless Kishi is changing things) that Madara became mortal to hold the Juubi. We already know that an edo tensei body can't handle the power, so that's why he's converting. He likely won't achieve it though, since it would basically rehash everything Obito did. Plus the eight Bijuu are all free right now, and it's easier to keep it that way instead of rehashing and undoing it again.

LightningMaster95
29th November 2013, 12:46 AM
It's fairly obvious (unless Kishi is changing things) that Madara became mortal to hold the Juubi. We already know that an edo tensei body can't handle the power, so that's why he's converting. He likely won't achieve it though, since it would basically rehash everything Obito did. Plus the eight Bijuu are all free right now, and it's easier to keep it that way instead of rehashing and undoing it again.

like i said before i think he is going to eat the fruit the mother of the SO6P ate and that will be his power up

Lorde
29th November 2013, 2:23 AM
Not really. I mean he's already died once and we've already had quite a few side characters die already and honestly I don't really see a point in him dying considering he already had a close call after getting curbstomped with the other Kages against Madara before.

I suppose. I just want to see someone die, preferably while attempting to stop Madara, who is practically the final villain now. And I don't think Madara's goal is to eat the God Tree's fruit; I thought Madara was just waiting for the flower at the top of the tree to bloom so that his Eye of the Moon Plan would finally be accomplished.

justinjiaxinghu
29th November 2013, 3:32 AM
Wait...madara stated that he can "battle normally" now. What does that mean? I mean, why couldn't he move when he was in Edo Tensei form? Was he somehow held back?

Platinum fan.
29th November 2013, 4:44 AM
Madara is already beyond uber when he was a zombie. He did say that when he became mortal he could use his full power or some junk like that. This is kinda strange since he's mortal which means he'll have to be more careful and is now able to be killed, and can tire out his body, and run out of chakra. Now that he's alive I would actually hope his downfall comes from overusing his chakra.

J Ken
29th November 2013, 12:28 PM
Madara is already beyond uber when he was a zombie. He did say that when he became mortal he could use his full power or some junk like that. This is kinda strange since he's mortal which means he'll have to be more careful and is now able to be killed, and can tire out his body, and run out of chakra. Now that he's alive I would actually hope his downfall comes from overusing his chakra.

That would be a fitting end for him but we need to remember that he does have the natural Senju Clan resiliency and along with that Uchihas are notorious chakra spammers outside of Itachi.

LightningMaster95
29th November 2013, 1:49 PM
Madara is already beyond uber when he was a zombie. He did say that when he became mortal he could use his full power or some junk like that. This is kinda strange since he's mortal which means he'll have to be more careful and is now able to be killed, and can tire out his body, and run out of chakra. Now that he's alive I would actually hope his downfall comes from overusing his chakra.

hes not going to run out of chakra because 1. he was edo so he didnt waste any of his chakra 2. hes an uchiha 3. has hashirama's dna 4. sharingan helps him not waste as much chakra 5. battled for a whole day against hashirama before getting tired/beat 6. an elite shinobi who knows how to conserve chakra
^^^hes not going to lose because of chakra and can spam final/perfect susannoo because of ems and the rinnegan, he will be beat by plot because thats how every villain gets beat either by talk no jutsu or plot no jutsu

justinjiaxinghu
29th November 2013, 2:02 PM
still, even if he is able to conserve chakra, chakra overuse seems most likely as his downfall because he's battling what, the 4 current kages, sasuke, naruto, the past 4 hokages, and a freaking entire ninja army. I dont think ANYONE can conserve chakra against those numbers.

J Ken
29th November 2013, 2:57 PM
still, even if he is able to conserve chakra, chakra overuse seems most likely as his downfall because he's battling what, the 4 current kages, sasuke, naruto, the past 4 hokages, and a freaking entire ninja army. I dont think ANYONE can conserve chakra against those numbers.

Most of the alliance are fodders who can't handle him even if he was just fighting with his bare hands and he does still have massive stamina from having Senju cells and his naturally massive chakra reserves. At this point Madara is more of a threat then Juubi Obito considering unlike Obito he isn't going to waste his abilities by standing still most of the time and is actually going to fight with the intention to kill.

Platinum fan.
29th November 2013, 3:20 PM
hes not going to run out of chakra because 1. he was edo so he didnt waste any of his chakra 2. hes an uchiha 3. has hashirama's dna 4. sharingan helps him not waste as much chakra 5. battled for a whole day against hashirama before getting tired/beat 6. an elite shinobi who knows how to conserve chakra
^^^hes not going to lose because of chakra and can spam final/perfect susannoo because of ems and the rinnegan, he will be beat by plot because thats how every villain gets beat either by talk no jutsu or plot no jutsu

It doesn't matter how elite he his, he just lost one of his biggest uber powers of being a zombie and having endless chakra and not being able to die. The possibility of him running out of Chakra is there now, even if it takes a full week for that to happen. Naruto is shielding the fodder ninjas with his Kyubi cloak, it won't guarantee they'll live but it increases their chances. Add in Hashirama and the other dead Hokages having endless supply of Chakra plus Naruto and Sasuke and they having a fighting chance. The only difference maker for Madara is the fact that he can now use his full power, whatever that is, I guess we'll have to see what he can do now. I'm sure it will keep his character broken.

For the record I don't except the fight to go down like like because I doubt Kishi even realize he took away Madara's endless chakra supply and will just make Madara even more powerful then he already is. Again I can't wait for Madara to be killed already. It's shameful nobody in this generation could have stopped this dead old Uchiha, without the past Hokages. The Gokage have been put to shame in this war.

Jb
29th November 2013, 4:09 PM
Why is there such a massive power gap between the old generation and the current. I mean, I know some techniques and such get lost over time and others are banned but the old guys are on a totally different level. I mean, without the Nine Tails, no one would be anywhere

J Ken
29th November 2013, 5:04 PM
Why is there such a massive power gap between the old generation and the current. I mean, I know some techniques and such get lost over time and others are banned but the old guys are on a totally different level. I mean, without the Nine Tails, no one would be anywhere

The past generation lived in a more battle orientated and fierce era in comparison to the more tranquil era of the current generation. Though there really is no logical reason making the power gap so huge considering even people who lived during that time are so weak in comparison to the resurrected shinobi.

LightningMaster95
29th November 2013, 8:00 PM
still, even if he is able to conserve chakra, chakra overuse seems most likely as his downfall because he's battling what, the 4 current kages, sasuke, naruto, the past 4 hokages, and a freaking entire ninja army. I dont think ANYONE can conserve chakra against those numbers.

the current kages and the ninja army have shown they cant do anything to madara
its mainly going to be hashirama for a while,madara finds a way to get rid of him since hes the only threat to madara, minato and tobirama saving the army with ftg, sarutobi talking to the current kages, sasuke getting his *** kicked by madara while naruto prepares his strongest jutsu to take down madara Talk No Jutsu

Lorde
29th November 2013, 8:38 PM
The past generation lived in a more battle orientated and fierce era in comparison to the more tranquil era of the current generation. Though there really is no logical reason making the power gap so huge considering even people who lived during that time are so weak in comparison to the resurrected shinobi.

I really don't think there's a logical reason either; some characters are just stronger than others because it's convenient for the story. As for the current generation, I think Naruto and Sasuke have proven to be really powerful, almost as powerful as the previous Hokage. Again, only because it's convenient for the story. I do feel bad for the other characters though. They'll always be overshadowed no matter what.

J Ken
29th November 2013, 8:47 PM
I really don't think there's a logical reason either; some characters are just stronger than others because it's convenient for the story. As for the current generation, I think Naruto and Sasuke have proven to be really powerful, almost as powerful as the previous Hokage. Again, only because it's convenient for the story. I do feel bad for the other characters though. They'll always be overshadowed no matter what.

I remember back in the old days during Part I when guys like Lee used to train their hardest just to prove that effort can match up to special abilities but fast forward to now and the only way to be close to threatening is if you have some form of special hax.

Platinum fan.
29th November 2013, 11:04 PM
I remember back in the old days during Part I when guys like Lee used to train their hardest just to prove that effort can match up to special abilities but fast forward to now and the only way to be close to threatening is if you have some form of special hax.

It is depressing seeing pretty much everyone from part 1 who is not Naruto or Sasuke, just be treated as fodder now. It's another reason I disliked having the dead Hokage here and taking a slot the alliance should of had. I know they are not powerful enough, but that's Kishi's fault for not building up anyone but Naruto and Sasuke longterm. Even Sakura feels killable now and her death would not impact the series all. I guess the main reason this upsets me most is because I loved characters like Rock Lee, Shikamaru, Hinata, Shino, and even the lesser ones like Kiba, Choji and Ino, so I would have at least liked to have seen them as backup when Naruto and Sasuke beat Madara. I really don't care about Hashirama, Tobimara, and the dead Hokages. I have no attachment to these characters...well I did for Hiruzen back when he was alive, but I don't feel invested in caring for characters that are already dead. If you want to show off how godly powerful Hashirama was then make a chronicles backstory like you did for Kakashi and his crew. It's because of that I actually cared for the Obito story. Anyway I'm just ranting now. It's a shame Naruto became another Dragon Ball Z where only a select few are important and everyone else becomes throw away trash.

Lorde
29th November 2013, 11:08 PM
I remember back in the old days during Part I when guys like Lee used to train their hardest just to prove that effort can match up to special abilities but fast forward to now and the only way to be close to threatening is if you have some form of special hax.

I know. Hard work just isn't relevant anymore; even Naruto gets help during his training these days and he always uses shortcuts to get stronger, which is ironic given that he told Obito a few chapters ago that there were no shortcuts to becoming Hokage.

J Ken
29th November 2013, 11:09 PM
It is depressing seeing pretty much everyone from part 1 who is not Naruto or Sasuke, just be treated as fodder now. It's another reason I disliked having the dead Hokage here and taking a slot the alliance should of had. I know they are not powerful enough, but that's Kishi's fault for not building up anyone but Naruto and Sasuke longterm. Even Sakura feels killable now and her death would not impact the series all. I guess the main reason this upsets me most is because I loved characters like Rock Lee, Shikamaru, Hinata, Shino, and even the lesser ones like Kiba, Choji and Ino, so I would have at least liked to have seen them as backup when Naruto and Sasuke beat Madara. I really don't care about Hashirama, Tobimara, and the dead Hokages. I have no attachment to these characters...well I did for Hiruzen back when he was alive, but I don't feel invested in caring for characters that are already dead. If you want to show off how godly powerful Hashirama was then make a chronicles backstory like you did for Kakashi and his crew. It's because of that I actually cared for the Obito story. Anyway I'm just ranting now. It's a shame Naruto became another Dragon Ball Z where only a select few are important and everyone else becomes throw away trash.

I agree. At this point I'd rather they remained useless by staying with their own power then give off the illusion that they are helpful by latching on to Naruto/Kurama's chakra.

Platinum fan.
29th November 2013, 11:28 PM
I know. Hard work just isn't relevant anymore; even Naruto gets help during his training these days and he always uses shortcuts to get stronger, which is ironic given that he told Obito a few chapters ago that there were no shortcuts to becoming Hokage.

Well I did kinda like his Sage Mode training chapters. I'm still glad Naruto gets on panel training. It doesn't make him look nearly as plot armored as Sasuke and his Sharingan abilities. I love how Sasuke got more haxxed by the minute in his Raikage battle.

The hard work thing was a part 1 saying which doesn't mean squat in part 2. Naruto lectured Neji about destiny and he's the Child of Destiny. I wonder what Neji would have said if he found out about that?

J Ken
29th November 2013, 11:32 PM
I know. Hard work just isn't relevant anymore; even Naruto gets help during his training these days and he always uses shortcuts to get stronger, which is ironic given that he told Obito a few chapters ago that there were no shortcuts to becoming Hokage.

Most of the traits that defined Naruto's character in Part I have basically been screwed over in Part II. As Platinum fan stated he lectured Neji on destiny yet his destiny is to be the world's savior, he used to fall into Lee's category of hardworking losers but now he falls into Sasuke's category of gifted prodigies who get stronger by being fortunate in having so many resources and while he does train on screen nowadays it doesn't take away from the fact that he barely has to put effort into anything with his natural access to so many special powers.

LightningMaster95
30th November 2013, 12:20 AM
well naruto pretty much became like dbz but the less entertaining version
1st series naruto and db focused on basic human abilities but with the occasional outside powers not that many rasengans/kamekamehas in part 1
2nd series naruto and dbz focused less on human abilities and more on powers/abilities cuz i dont remember 1 fight in part 2 of each anime when they didnt use atleast one power
and now in naruto everyone gets revived except jiraiya

Lorde
30th November 2013, 2:32 AM
Most of the traits that defined Naruto's character in Part I have basically been screwed over in Part II. As Platinum fan stated he lectured Neji on destiny yet his destiny is to be the world's savior, he used to fall into Lee's category of hardworking losers but now he falls into Sasuke's category of gifted prodigies who get stronger by being fortunate in having so many resources and while he does train on screen nowadays it doesn't take away from the fact that he barely has to put effort into anything with his natural access to so many special powers.

It's almost like Part 1 and Part 2 are entirely different series to be honest. And speaking of Lee, I miss the days when taijutsu were purely physical techniques that didn't always require power ups or chakra, but now in Part 2 it seems like almost all taijutsu are mixed with ninjutsu. It kind of makes the whole point of taijutsu redundant imo.

LightningMaster95
30th November 2013, 8:45 PM
who do you guys think is the strongest character that does not have any power ups (rinnegan/sharingan/byakugan/tail beast/edo tensie)
my top 3 are
jiraiya
guy
kisame or the raikage

J Ken
30th November 2013, 9:27 PM
who do you guys think is the strongest character that does not have any power ups (rinnegan/sharingan/byakugan/tail beast/edo tensie)
my top 3 are
jiraiya
guy
kisame or the raikage

Tbh all those guys have powerups of their very own. I can't really say considering how long its been since I've seen someone fight without relying on powerups.

LightningMaster95
30th November 2013, 10:13 PM
Tbh all those guys have powerups of their very own. I can't really say considering how long its been since I've seen someone fight without relying on powerups.

sage mode can go either way but he only used it once
guy is using his own abilities and not relying on something else the same goes for the raikage
kisame is sort of tricky since the samahada is using kisame's chakra iirc

Lorde
30th November 2013, 10:19 PM
sage mode can go either way but he only used it once
guy is using his own abilities and not relying on something else the same goes for the raikage
kisame is sort of tricky since the samahada is using kisame's chakra iirc

Guy has to open some of the Eight Gates just to use his strongest techniques like the Morning Peacock and the Daytime Tiger though; that's essentially a power-up. And the Raikage has to encase himself in lightning chakra to enhance his strength and to move quickly, which might also be considered a power-up.

LightningMaster95
30th November 2013, 11:37 PM
Guy has to open some of the Eight Gates just to use his strongest techniques like the Morning Peacock and the Daytime Tiger though; that's essentially a power-up. And the Raikage has to encase himself in lightning chakra to enhance his strength and to move quickly, which might also be considered a power-up.

hes using his own body/chakra/mind to use the gates the raikage uses his body and nature manipulation to do all of that theyre not getting from a tail beast or dojutsu

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
1st December 2013, 12:03 AM
Tbh all those guys have powerups of their very own. I can't really say considering how long its been since I've seen someone fight without relying on powerups.

It's been so long even I can't remember. ._.

And people have heard about Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm Revolution?

J Ken
1st December 2013, 12:06 AM
It's been so long even I can't remember. ._.

And people have heard about Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm Revolution?

Honestly I've never heard about that game. But I assume that they 95% of Naruto's moveset consists of a Rasengan/Rasengan variation in every combo/throw/hit and special.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
1st December 2013, 2:11 AM
Honestly I've never heard about that game. But I assume that they 95% of Naruto's moveset consists of a Rasengan/Rasengan variation in every combo/throw/hit and special.

It's supposed to be released for both Xbox 360 and PS3 next year. It was announced a few days ago I believe, but wouldn't be surprised if his combos consisted of that. What I'm wondering about is how the storyline is going to be because the only boss battles I can think about is vs Madara, Obito and the Ten Tail. And I hope more characters like the Sound Ninja 4 and the 7 Swordsman will be playable and some random people like Anko, Izumo and others.

Shneak
1st December 2013, 2:45 AM
I thought that the last UNS was the last one?

J Ken
1st December 2013, 2:49 AM
I thought that the last UNS was the last one?

To be fair they also said that the Storm 3 wouldn't come out until the Naruto manga ended but that wasn't the case.

Jb
1st December 2013, 2:50 AM
It's been so long even I can't remember. ._.


I think the last people that fought without powerups were the Akatsuki.

Sasori, Deidara, Konan, Hidan, Kakazu all didn't have "power ups" Everyone after that was hax.

Lorde
1st December 2013, 2:57 AM
hes using his own body/chakra/mind to use the gates the raikage uses his body and nature manipulation to do all of that theyre not getting from a tail beast or dojutsu

Regardless of whether or not those characters have Bijuu or doujutsu, what they do can still be considered to be power-ups and therefore hax. If they fought normally they wouldn't be nearly as effective; I previously said that I think Guy is stronger than Kakashi, but that's only because he gets stronger by opening the Eight Gates. If Kakashi fought without the Sharingan and Guy fought with opening the gates, I think Kakashi would triumph over Guy.

justinjiaxinghu
1st December 2013, 11:31 AM
I still enjoy the fact that Shikamaru, Ino, and Choji still have some impact due to their collaborative skill in wrecking things. I hope they get to help take down Madara.

Platinum fan.
1st December 2013, 3:42 PM
Regardless of whether or not those characters have Bijuu or doujutsu, what they do can still be considered to be power-ups and therefore hax. If they fought normally they wouldn't be nearly as effective; I previously said that I think Guy is stronger than Kakashi, but that's only because he gets stronger by opening the Eight Gates. If Kakashi fought without the Sharingan and Guy fought with opening the gates, I think Kakashi would triumph over Guy.

Are you sure Kakashi would triumph without Sharingan? Kakashi does all his biggest fights with Sharingan. I haven't seen him fight a serious opponent without it, and without it he can't do his lightning blade without risk. Guy can read body language and is all around powerful without any of the Inner Gates. His regular speed alone was said to surpass Kakashi's. I'll say that Kakashi is more crafty then Guy and uses more resources. Guy's only used his Inner Gates so far against Kisame and that guy is called a tailless Bijuu.

Zain Uchiha
1st December 2013, 6:53 PM
SPOILER ALERT :

If you have read manga , kk I cant be asked to read 939 pages if this has already been said , but Suigetsu gives Sasuke the scroll that he found in Orochimaru's lab which orochimaru was trying to revive the 4 past Hokages by releasing their souls as they were sealed and can't be revived by the reanimation jutsu and Sasuke goes to the Uzumaki hideout after ITACHI AGAIN saves the his village and this time the WHOLE SHINOBI WORLD by putting Kabuto in Izanami loop , so Sasuke basically revives Orochimaru and the past hokages , they go to the battlefield where Madara is (immortal o.o) and Obito Uchiha (tobi guy) and help Naruto fight , Sasuke also says he wants to become Hokage which obviously he can't but thats another story line

Sasuke and Naruto also combine their jutsus , Rasen Shuriken + Amaterasu to form what Minato gave a ridiculous name : Gale Style: Black Arrow, something...I forogt


Anyways I can't wait to see the new era xd

LightningMaster95
1st December 2013, 7:02 PM
SPOILER ALERT :

If you have read manga , kk I cant be asked to read 939 pages if this has already been said , but Suigetsu gives Sasuke the scroll that he found in Orochimaru's lab which orochimaru was trying to revive the 4 past Hokages by releasing their souls as they were sealed and can't be revived by the reanimation jutsu and Sasuke goes to the Uzumaki hideout after ITACHI AGAIN saves the his village and this time the WHOLE SHINOBI WORLD by putting Kabuto in Izanami loop , so Sasuke basically revives Orochimaru and the past hokages , they go to the battlefield where Madara is (immortal o.o) and Obito Uchiha (tobi guy) and help Naruto fight , Sasuke also says he wants to become Hokage which obviously he can't but thats another story line

Sasuke and Naruto also combine their jutsus , Rasen Shuriken + Amaterasu to form what Minato gave a ridiculous name : Gale Style: Black Arrow, something...I forogt


Anyways I can't wait to see the new era xd
hello and welcome to the forum
we know all of this, theres no need to put spoiler alert when it says it in the title, everyone here is caught up in the manga

Zain Uchiha
1st December 2013, 7:34 PM
Ah I see , just a Naruto fan walking by :3

and Thanks for greeting me

Lorde
1st December 2013, 7:49 PM
Are you sure Kakashi would triumph without Sharingan? Kakashi does all his biggest fights with Sharingan. I haven't seen him fight a serious opponent without it, and without it he can't do his lightning blade without risk. Guy can read body language and is all around powerful without any of the Inner Gates. His regular speed alone was said to surpass Kakashi's. I'll say that Kakashi is more crafty then Guy and uses more resources. Guy's only used his Inner Gates so far against Kisame and that guy is called a tailless Bijuu.

I'm confident in Kakashi's abilities. I'm not saying it would be an easy fight, but even before he got the Sharingan, Kakashi was known as a genius and there must've been a reason for that. Guy is strong with his regular taijutsu, but nowhere near Kakashi's level. I mean at least Kakashi is diverse; he can use ninjutsu, taijutsu, and even genjutsu.

Jb
1st December 2013, 8:50 PM
All of Kakashi's Genjustu comes from the Sharigan, it wound't work on Guy anyway. And there's no way he's better at Taijustu. He may be better at Ninjustu but using it would tire him out too quick.

J Ken
1st December 2013, 9:26 PM
It's possible Kakashi is as good as Guy in Taijutsu I mean even as kids before he got the Sharingan Kakashi was able to keep up with Guy and while they've both gained a bunch of abilities Kakashi is more diverse then Guy is. I'd also like to point out that Kakashi's stamina levels aren't as low as they used and has actually improved greatly.

Lorde
1st December 2013, 9:35 PM
All of Kakashi's Genjustu comes from the Sharigan, it wound't work on Guy anyway. And there's no way he's better at Taijustu. He may be better at Ninjustu but using it would tire him out too quick.

Kakashi used genjutsu without the Sharingan on Sakura before. And I don't think Kakashi's taijutsu is stronger than Guy's; I only meant that he has more diversity than Guy does in general, whereas Guy seems to only know basic ninjutsu and advanced taijutsu.

LightningMaster95
1st December 2013, 9:47 PM
All of Kakashi's Genjustu comes from the Sharigan, it wound't work on Guy anyway. And there's no way he's better at Taijustu. He may be better at Ninjustu but using it would tire him out too quick.
used genjustu on sakura without sharingan
he could be better than guy at taijutsu and without the sharingan draining his chakra he would be able to keep on going in a fight with him

Platinum fan.
2nd December 2013, 12:42 AM
I'm confident in Kakashi's abilities. I'm not saying it would be an easy fight, but even before he got the Sharingan, Kakashi was known as a genius and there must've been a reason for that. Guy is strong with his regular taijutsu, but nowhere near Kakashi's level. I mean at least Kakashi is diverse; he can use ninjutsu, taijutsu, and even genjutsu.

Nowhere near his level? Guy is the only Jonin in the village who probably could defeat Kakashi one-on-one. As far as genjutsu goes, if Kakashi can do it with other parts of his body like Itachi apparently can, then yeah he could get Guy, just as long as it's not through the eys. Guy devised ways to nullify regular Sharingan. I actually don't think Kakashi is as strong as Guy in Taijutsu. Guy's faster and clearly physically stronger. Kakashi's edge over Guy would be regular ninjutsu if he's not using MS. Guy is probably not strong in ninjutsu or genjutsu, but again if Kakashi has to look you in the eye to get you in genjutsu then Guy's safe from it.

LightningMaster95
2nd December 2013, 1:15 AM
Nowhere near his level? Guy is the only Jonin in the village who probably could defeat Kakashi one-on-one. As far as genjutsu goes, if Kakashi can do it with other parts of his body like Itachi apparently can, then yeah he could get Guy, just as long as it's not through the eys. Guy devised ways to nullify regular Sharingan. I actually don't think Kakashi is as strong as Guy in Taijutsu. Guy's faster and clearly physically stronger. Kakashi's edge over Guy would be regular ninjutsu if he's not using MS. Guy is probably not strong in ninjutsu or genjutsu, but again if Kakashi has to look you in the eye to get you in genjutsu then Guy's safe from it.
well we cant really tell who's faster since none of them have really shown any speed feats, being stronger doesnt mean anything in the naruto world its all about strategy which gives kakashi the edge

Platinum fan.
2nd December 2013, 1:45 AM
well we cant really tell who's faster since none of them have really shown any speed feats, being stronger doesnt mean anything in the naruto world its all about strategy which gives kakashi the edge

Guy has shown his impressive speed quite a lot actually. Sasuke commented on how Guy's speed surpassed Kakashi. As for stronger, Kakashi himself said his body was weaker then it use to be when he was doing a rock climbing exercise while waiting for Sasuke to show up to teach him Chidori. We all know Guy does not have a weak body. This is why I say Guy is faster and stronger then Kakashi in those departments, not in general. Of course this was all in part 1 so who knows if it all still applies. And while I agree that strategy is important but being strong cannot be ignored and it does mean something. Shikamaru vs Tayuya was a very strategy based battle and Shikamaru could have won that fight if it wasn't for Tayuya's Curse Mark making her strong enough to break out of his Shadow. Simply being stronger made all the difference in that fight.

Lorde
2nd December 2013, 1:49 AM
Nowhere near his level? Guy is the only Jonin in the village who probably could defeat Kakashi one-on-one. As far as genjutsu goes, if Kakashi can do it with other parts of his body like Itachi apparently can, then yeah he could get Guy, just as long as it's not through the eys. Guy devised ways to nullify regular Sharingan. I actually don't think Kakashi is as strong as Guy in Taijutsu. Guy's faster and clearly physically stronger. Kakashi's edge over Guy would be regular ninjutsu if he's not using MS. Guy is probably not strong in ninjutsu or genjutsu, but again if Kakashi has to look you in the eye to get you in genjutsu then Guy's safe from it.

If Kakashi uses regular ocular jutsu with his right eye, I don't think Guy would be able to counter it. I mean all that Sharingan training that Guy supposedly did would be redundant if Kakashi uses non-Sharingan genjutsu. I suppose one might argue that Guy could dispel generic genjutsu just like most elite ninja can, but we haven't seen him fight in that scenario before iirc.

Platinum fan.
2nd December 2013, 1:58 AM
If Kakashi uses regular ocular jutsu with his right eye, I don't think Guy would be able to counter it. I mean all that Sharingan training that Guy supposedly did would be redundant if Kakashi uses non-Sharingan genjutsu. I suppose one might argue that Guy could dispel generic genjutsu just like most elite ninja can, but we haven't seen him fight in that scenario before iirc.

If Guy spends the whole fight not looking Kakashi in the eyes whether he's using Sharingan or not it won't make a difference because Guy won't be making eye contact. Kakashi would need to beat Guy in long range ninjutsu and his quick/smart thinking. Regular Sharingan is almost useless if you don't make eye contact and since Guy made a full strategy on beating regular Sharingan, I doubt he would look Kakashi in the eye whether he's using Sharingan or not.

Lorde
2nd December 2013, 8:55 PM
If Guy spends the whole fight not looking Kakashi in the eyes whether he's using Sharingan or not it won't make a difference because Guy won't be making eye contact. Kakashi would need to beat Guy in long range ninjutsu and his quick/smart thinking. Regular Sharingan is almost useless if you don't make eye contact and since Guy made a full strategy on beating regular Sharingan, I doubt he would look Kakashi in the eye whether he's using Sharingan or not.

I suppose. Kakashi's long range ninjutsu would probably make all the difference since I doubt Guy has a way of blocking those kinds of techniques without opening the Eight Gates. I'd love to compare Asuma and Kurenai's strength with Kakashi and Guy, but they obviously didn't get enough screen-time for a comparison to be made.

Jb
2nd December 2013, 10:47 PM
Kakashi used genjutsu without the Sharingan on Sakura before. .
I forgot about that. I doubt that Guy could fall victim to such a low level genjustu though.

LightningMaster95
3rd December 2013, 1:44 AM
if there was a sakura vs hinata match who do u guys think would win?

Platinum fan.
3rd December 2013, 3:30 AM
I suppose. Kakashi's long range ninjutsu would probably make all the difference since I doubt Guy has a way of blocking those kinds of techniques without opening the Eight Gates. I'd love to compare Asuma and Kurenai's strength with Kakashi and Guy, but they obviously didn't get enough screen-time for a comparison to be made.

We have seen some of Asuma in his Hidan fight and then later against his students. Both times I wouldn't rank him as high as Kakashi or Guy, which only makes me wonder why Kabutomaru brought him back from the dead in the first place? I never considered him a super special fighter just a average one. Kurenai...beyond Genjutsu I don't know what else she can do.

As for tak310's new question between a match of Sakura and Hinata, it depends on who hits who first and I guess that would depend on who is the better fighter. If Hinata knew all Neji's fighting styles then I'd say Hinata would win but neither have shown to be all that skilled in fighting, but I suppose the edge would go slightly to Hinata regardless, because she probably focuses on close combat Gentle Fist fighting. But Sakura only needs to land one blow with her Hulk strength and she can take Hinata down. So it really depends on who lands the first blow.

Lorde
3rd December 2013, 3:38 AM
I can't see why Hinata and Sakura would fight, but I think Sakura would win. I mean one hit from her and Hinata would be hurt badly. I understand that Hinata could use her Gentle Fist style against Sakura, but I don't think that would be enough to beat Sakura; she could probably heal her internal injuries quickly making Gentle Fist's damage irrelevant.

p96822
3rd December 2013, 3:49 AM
I think Sakura might win if she grab Hintina and slam her down.

Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama
3rd December 2013, 4:36 AM
I think that would be an awesome fight, but I'd say Sakura would win. I'd like to see people like Sakura and Ino fight again. With their improved skills it would be interesting, but Ino's not really a combat kunoichi , so it probably wouldn't be too great then. But, I'm still hoping for more fights for the girls, especially Tenten.

Platinum fan.
3rd December 2013, 5:12 AM
I can't see why Hinata and Sakura would fight, but I think Sakura would win. I mean one hit from her and Hinata would be hurt badly. I understand that Hinata could use her Gentle Fist style against Sakura, but I don't think that would be enough to beat Sakura; she could probably heal her internal injuries quickly making Gentle Fist's damage irrelevant.

Remember the Gentle Fist also cuts off Chakra networks so if Hinata hits her with it, Sakura cannot heal her internal injuries. Combined with the Byakugan, Hyugas are Taijutsu slayers. Fighting one up close is asking to die. I would say Sakura could fight at a distance but she has no skills beyond medical fighting skills which require her to be up close. Sakura's only hope would be to strike first and hope that one blow knocks her out. If they ever did fight it could end up being the Kunoichi version of Neji and Lee.

Lorde
3rd December 2013, 5:32 AM
Remember the Gentle Fist also cuts off Chakra networks so if Hinata hits her with it, Sakura cannot heal her internal injuries. Combined with the Byakugan, Hyugas are Taijutsu slayers. Fighting one up close is asking to die. I would say Sakura could fight at a distance but she has no skills beyond medical fighting skills which require her to be up close. Sakura's only hope would be to strike first and hope that one blow knocks her out. If they ever did fight it could end up being the Kunoichi version of Neji and Lee.

Sakura supposedly has very good chakra control, so maybe her chakra network wouldn't be entirely cut off by Hinata's Gentle Fist style. I just don't think Hinata could beat Sakura, although I like Hinata more than her and I wish that Hinata could prove herself as a good fighter, but that dream is over now.

justinjiaxinghu
3rd December 2013, 10:16 AM
Pretty sure this will be the finale. And as for the topic of Sakura vs Hinata, I honestly think Sakura would win...somehow. But truthfully, we haven't really seen enough of either person's fighting skills to draw a good conclusion.

Just summing up the people above me:

One hit from Sakura would wreck Hinata.

However, Hinata's Gentle Fist would cut off the chakra, true, but Sakura was taught by Tsunade. Pretty sure she won't be brought down THAT easily.

Also, Kakashi's sheer versality in jutsu would probably grant him an advantage on Guy, who is limited to pretty much only Taijutsu. Doesn't Sharingan also allow the wielder to somehow see the opponent's moves in slow motion? I'm pretty sure Sasuke did that against Naruto in their battle in Part 1.