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Reg teh Yoshi
3rd November 2006, 4:03 AM
Alright, for those who are reading are about to hear a long rant about banning fan games on here. Saying that they're Illegal. I might get banned, but it's well worth it to me.

Now i begin my rant...
----------------------------

Okay, First off: What makes them illegal? I mean, it may not be a Official production, but that dosen't mean it's not illegal! Now if using ripped sprites in a fan game game is illegal, Blame the person WHO RIPPED THE SPRITES! not the person who's using them in the game! And if it is, they game maker should make his own sprites for use! And if using the real game music in a game is illegal, JUST USE FAN MADE MIDI'S! But i don't think they're Illegal, to know why i don't think that, read on...

Second: Why do you think they're illegal? I mean, probably the only thing that would make them illegal is if you decided to, for example, SELL a Pokemon fan game you made to people without giving some of the profit to Nintendo and Game Freak! If you just posted a fangame for download for free, i don't think it would be illegal!

Third: Proof that they CANNOT be illegal! Now there is a fangame, called Pokemon Platinum, a fan remake of G/S/C. Guess where the creator posted it: THE OFFICIAL NOA FORUMS! A few topics of the game has been closed, but only because it was in the wrong forum, Which is what the Admin posted in its 3rd topic before closing it, and the 3rd topic had 15 posts before then.

and last: Why have them banned!? I mean look HERE!! THIS IS AN UNOFFICIAL POKEMON FORUM (I mean, sure it's a large *** message board, but that dosen't mean anything) ! AND IT'S PAID FOR!! I don't see the money Serebii's sending going to Nintendo or Game Freak, It's going only to VBulletin and probably some of its Sponsers! I don't see other unofficial Pokemon forums sending Money to Nintendo or Game Freak either, it's just going to VBulletin! So I say that calling them illegal is Stupid and IDIOTIC, because I never heard of a Free, 100% custom-made Pokemon Fangame being Illegal!

-----------------------------
And I end my Complaint...

So anyways, I'm not COMMANDING you to unban it, it's your choice to keep them banned from here. I'm just complaining about why you call them Illegal.

And I heard this from somewhere, but I can't remember where I heard it.

However, i'f i'm wrong and it was another forum that said Fangames were illegal, then pardon me, and i'll accept any warn, suspension, or ban you throw my way!

Thank you for your time to listen, and have a nice day :) .

RGdude
3rd November 2006, 4:44 AM
Making a fan game is not illegal but making a hack without owning the real game and distributing it is illegal. And I agree with you :)

darkjigglypuff
3rd November 2006, 4:45 AM
Alright, for those who are reading are about to hear a long rant about banning fan games on here. Saying that they're Illegal. I might get banned, but it's well worth it to me.

Now i begin my rant...
----------------------------

Okay, First off: What makes them illegal? I mean, it may not be a Official production, but that dosen't mean it's not illegal! Now if using ripped sprites in a fan game game is illegal, Blame the person WHO RIPPED THE SPRITES! not the person who's using them in the game! And if it is, they game maker should make his own sprites for use! And if using the real game music in a game is illegal, JUST USE FAN MADE MIDI'S! But i don't think they're Illegal, to know why i don't think that, read on...

Second: Why do you think they're illegal? I mean, probably the only thing that would make them illegal is if you decided to, for example, SELL a Pokemon fan game you made to people without giving some of the profit to Nintendo and Game Freak! If you just posted a fangame for download for free, i don't think it would be illegal!

Third: Proof that they CANNOT be illegal! Now there is a fangame, called Pokemon Platinum, a fan remake of G/S/C. Guess where the creator posted it: THE OFFICIAL NOA FORUMS! A few topics of the game has been closed, but only because it was in the wrong forum, Which is what the Admin posted in its 3rd topic before closing it, and the 3rd topic had 15 posts before then.

and last: Why have them banned!? I mean look HERE!! THIS IS AN UNOFFICIAL POKEMON FORUM (I mean, sure it's a large *** message board, but that dosen't mean anything) ! AND IT'S PAID FOR!! I don't see the money Serebii's sending going to Nintendo or Game Freak, It's going only to VBulletin and probably some of its Sponsers! I don't see other unofficial Pokemon forums sending Money to Nintendo or Game Freak either, it's just going to VBulletin! So I say that calling them illegal is Stupid and IDIOTIC, because I never heard of a Free, 100% custom-made Pokemon Fangame being Illegal!

-----------------------------
And I end my Complaint...

So anyways, I'm not COMMANDING you to unban it, it's your choice to keep them banned from here. I'm just complaining about why you call them Illegal.

And I heard this from somewhere, but I can't remember where I heard it.

However, i'f i'm wrong and it was another forum that said Fangames were illegal, then pardon me, and i'll accept any warn, suspension, or ban you throw my way!

Thank you for your time to listen, and have a nice day :) .

Give this dude some cookies and milk :)

The Edge
3rd November 2006, 5:20 AM
Give this dude some cookies and milk :)

And...Why, exactly, did you you feel like you had to quote the whole entire thing just for one sentence? :)

But seriously, fangames aren't that great anyway. Glitchy, slow downloads, and questionable legality...it's just not worth it.

krymzen
3rd November 2006, 6:13 AM
If you can download them on the net for free they're fun...
It's when pirates put'em onto cartridges that they become bad...

Anyway, I agree with Reg Teh Yoshi, but, dude, you can't get banned for posting your opinion, unless it directly flames someone (or something like that ^^)

Anyway, good post.

Reg teh Yoshi
3rd November 2006, 6:18 AM
YAY! no ban for mah! :)

I'm sure my post will catch their attention, soon i hope.

EDIT:If you support my rant, Put "I support Reg teh Yoshi's veiws on Serebiiforums banning of Fangames", you don't have to do it, it's optional, and even link it here if you like.

GreyOceanStar
3rd November 2006, 8:37 AM
Deal with it or cry.

flygonbreloom
3rd November 2006, 11:19 AM
Deal with it or cry.

No, you have to deal with him or cry.

JoshYEAH
3rd November 2006, 12:29 PM
You sure caught my attention alright! Way to post this in the wrong section :rolleyes:

Nice speech, not that I'm one to care, moving to site discussion now. :)

-Josh

top 8 guy
3rd November 2006, 12:48 PM
You can get banned for flaming at ppl? oh no......

The Flat World
3rd November 2006, 2:36 PM
Could somebody kindly give a definition of a "fan game"?

I've never heard of it before.

The Edge
3rd November 2006, 3:21 PM
It's...a game...made by fans...?
The little programming nerds get sprites and program them into a fake little videogame with their nerdy abilities of programming, and let other nerds download them off equally nerdy websites. What else is there?

Sonozaki Maya
3rd November 2006, 3:22 PM
And...Why, exactly, did you you feel like you had to quote the whole entire thing just for one sentence? :)

But seriously, fangames aren't that great anyway. Glitchy, slow downloads, and questionable legality...it's just not worth it.

If doujin soft games count as fangames, I'd have to disagree with you there. There are games such as Eternal Fighter Zero, a "fangame" of sorts based on I think two anime series, that is absolutely great, it's not slow, not glitchy, etc. etc. You obviously haven't looked hard enough... 8(

~Bent~
3rd November 2006, 4:15 PM
Some fangames aren't illegal. But the fact remains that hacks (which make up a large portion of that group) are illegal. As illegal as ROMs.

I've heard of Project Platinum. Sure, they're okay and whatnot. But it's a rarity. Let's take PokeCommunity as an example. PokeCommunity has a fan games/fan hacks section. Of all the games in there, how many are hacks, which are illegal? A great many. Of those that are left, how many actually involve programming (considering the HUGE majority of fangames start their games with sprites, of all things)? Very few. Very few. What point would there be in a whole subforum dedicated to fangames when only, say, three would be legal and/or worth it?

Chris
3rd November 2006, 5:13 PM
If doujin soft games count as fangames, I'd have to disagree with you there. There are games such as Eternal Fighter Zero, a "fangame" of sorts based on I think two anime series, that is absolutely great, it's not slow, not glitchy, etc. etc. You obviously haven't looked hard enough... 8(
Import doujin fangames don't count. Especially considering how screwy the system is regarding doujins to begin with. And most especially not counting in Hong Kong, where piracy is king.

NEO GOHAN
4th November 2006, 12:10 AM
if it uses Poke`mon and is not officially sponsored, it prevents GameFreak/Nintendo/the Poke`mon Company from making money for the real games.

in short: whether or not anyone makes money, the creators don't like someone else using their idea and cheating them out of the money they deserve.

IT'S BUSINESS.

Korobooshi Kojiro
4th November 2006, 12:12 AM
Just make your own sprites, own creatures, and use a battle-system simmilar to Pokemon, but don't use any sprites or names.

And your good.

Fiery Blaziken
4th November 2006, 12:51 AM
Pointless, Joe's never changes his minds about stuff. :(

Besides, go advertise your fangames on some other forum.
And there's lot's of illegal stuff you "can't" do. ;)

Illegible
4th November 2006, 1:29 AM
This topic grabbed my attention, since I am making a pkmn fangame...

First off, your arguments are horrible. It looks like you place logic against the law--not a good attempt...

Next, I saw a nice post regarding fangames elsewhere on the net that I will share with you all...

Now let me make something clear, fan games are illegal, that means that you can be sued by the company for it, but the company must first sent a cease and desist letter to you before they can sue you, so there's not really much to worry about, as long as you don't sell the fan game and say (in the credits) that the sprites, sounds, etc are from the company you stole it from. Yes, you steal something when making a fan game (that means I'm a criminal, I make fan games, lol). From what I've heard, Sony will send you a cease and desist letter when they see a fan game, but Nintendo is very relaxed against fan games, somebody sent an email to them to ask if he could make a fan game, and they replied that as long as you didn't sell the game and give credit to Nintendo, and state that you are not related to the company, they don't care much about the fan game.

What else, oh, here is a letter someone elsewhere on the net received from Nintendo.


Hi!

We appreciate the interest in Nintendo and in all our video game
products. To us, it represents a great sign of success and recognition of
the Nintendo brand.

"Nintendo" is a registered trademark of Nintendo of America Inc.
Nintendo owns extensive intellectual property rights in all of its products,
including video game systems, game titles, characters, game software,
graphics, artwork, and screen shots. Nintendo also retains rights in
content on Nintendo's web sites, including articles, artwork, screen
shots and other files. Trademarks and copyrights for third-party games and
characters are owned by the companies that market or license those
products.

While we are grateful for all the requests for permission to use
Nintendo properties, we are not able to grant such requests. We receive
thousands of requests and we do not have adequate staffing to review them
all. Therefore, our general policy is to decline requests for
permission for the use of Nintendo properties.

Although we are not able to grant permission, use of Nintendo's
properties without formal permission by Nintendo may still be allowed under
the relevant laws of the particular jurisdiction involved. Thus, we
encourage you to seek your own legal counsel if you have any questions
about whether your particular proposed use is permitted without Nintendo's
authorization. Nintendo cannot provide legal advice.

We appreciate your support. For more information about Nintendo and
its products, please visit our website -- nintendo.com.

Nintendo of America Inc.
R.M. Rickets

Here (http://www.y-din.com/darkhitman/dhmgdcopy.png) is a lil' cartoon to sum it up for you that I found. Add this to the letter above, and it proves that fangames are completely illegal, especially pkmn ones, since Nintendo will not allow 'em. Now, scratched fangames (as mine) are not in any way similar to ROM hacks, those are the worst. Scratched ones can at least be "parodized" so that no copyright is broken...

Point? Fangames are illegal, period. The only time they are not illegal is if you get permission (good luck) and if you would not mind becoming a professional criminal ^_^.

Reg teh Yoshi
4th November 2006, 1:57 AM
Alright, this Post is directed to agent Myst.


One, what that person (That nintendo worker) was talking about was people wanting to make their own game about and give it to them to publish.

Two, as i've heard, nintendo says that as long as a fanmade game stays free for download and avoids any other profitable use, it is legal.

And three, which is directed to everyone, I was talking about Completely custom made games.

And so everyone can hear what the rant was directed towards...
MY RANT WAS DIRECTED AT POKEMON (AND MISC.) GAMES MADE WITH LEGAL GAME MAKING PROGRAMS AND BASE PROGRAMMING, NOT HACKED ROMS!! HACKED ROMS ARE ILLEGAL!! GAMES MADE FROM SCRATCH ARE LEGAL AS LONG AS THEY ARE KEPT ON THE WEB ONLY AS A DOWNLOAD AND ARE KEPT AWAY FROM ANY PROFITABLE MEANS!!

Fiery Blaziken
4th November 2006, 2:02 AM
Joe's not going to change his mind. Screaming won't help either.

Illegible
4th November 2006, 2:21 AM
Alright, this Post is directed to agent Myst.


One, what that person (That nintendo worker) was talking about was people wanting to make their own game about and give it to them to publish.
Um, no, that was actually the base of a fan-made game, scratched one...he meant he cannot grant such permissions, though they really do not care (meaning, they are not hunting you down, but they will send you a lovely cease+decist letter if they do indeed catch you and they so choose).

Two, as i've heard, nintendo says that as long as a fanmade game stays free for download and avoids any other profitable use, it is legal.
Get out some more. Using this logic, I can freely open a small general store and give out a free Scooby Doo toy, without permission from the copyright holders, legally. Sorry, not gonna happen...

And three, which is directed to everyone, I was talking about Completely custom made games.
*grins* So was I. They could care less if you scratched it or not, it still uses pkmn resources, including the name, characters, and music.

And so everyone can hear what the rant was directed towards...
MY RANT WAS DIRECTED AT POKEMON (AND MISC.) GAMES MADE WITH LEGAL GAME MAKING PROGRAMS AND BASE PROGRAMMING, NOT HACKED ROMS!! HACKED ROMS ARE ILLEGAL!! GAMES MADE FROM SCRATCH ARE LEGAL AS LONG AS THEY ARE KEPT ON THE WEB ONLY AS A DOWNLOAD AND ARE KEPT AWAY FROM ANY PROFITABLE MEANS!!
Go take a class on law and come see us again. I am sorry, you can end up a criminal someday if you try using that logic at the wrong place att he wrong time. Again, it does not matter whether or not you programmed it yourself, you are still breaking copyright without permission. I cannot legally write a book with Star Wars all over it unless I get permission from Lucas (or whoever the copyright holders are). It does not matter whether I wrote the book or not, even if I hand it out freely. Now, chances are, fangames usually will no get caught, but it is not smart to take 'z risk.


As a side note, I am scratching a pkmn game, and I have not yet obtained direct permission fron Nintendo, so, I am a criminal if I ever finish it without permission. It would not matter if I put hours coding everything and if I have a mile-long list of spriters who made the pkmn, it is still illegal if I attach anything pkmn-related, the name even. Paradies even occasionally hit the line.

Case closed. If the moderators beleive this post is spam, I am responsing to the post directed at me, since I cannot stand being "corrected". I hope this is clear to Reg teh Yoshi, as well.

Reg teh Yoshi
4th November 2006, 2:30 AM
Since i am a decent person i will not argue with you and to keep myself from a flame ban. However, i think as long as a fangame is not...you know, forget it. In fact i will E-mail Nintendo if fangames made from scratch and are kept from profitable purposes are illegal, and when i get my reply i will post it here.

I will only beleive Agent Mysts veiws on fangames when i hear it from the Big ones themselves.

Pure
4th November 2006, 2:36 AM
So you are basing belief on his reputation? No.

Here's how it is: without the licensing from Nintendo, any fangame related to Pokemon is illegal. Basic copyright infringement.

Joe doesn't want his site in a chance for trouble like that.

Reg teh Yoshi
4th November 2006, 3:19 AM
All right, Just to get everyones attention I have sized up this post.

Now have any of you heard of the Spriters Resource? It is a website which host's Ripped and Customized Sprites from games. Basicly ripped sprites are the same as Fangames online W/O Permission from the official companies. Did the site get in truoble? Did it get A "Cease and Desist" Warning?...


........

........

..........

...............

...................

.............................

.....................................




NO!!

In fact, it was the exact oppisite!

NOE's official Magizine mentioned it in its pages as an awesome site. And what did the site have? SPRITES RIPPED FROM ROMS AND CUSTOM SPRITES MADE W/O PERMISSION! DID THEY GET IN TROUBLE!? NO! THEY GOT APPLAUSE FOR THEIR SITE BY NINTENDO OF EUROPE!!

So I guess this sums it all up, now have a nice day :)

Meganium Ex
4th November 2006, 3:22 AM
Here's the answer short and simple: No

While not all fan-ganes are illegal, a majority of them are, and so not to cause any problems at all, Joe has pretty much banned the discussion of them. If you still want to talk about them, go to another forum in which discussions of them are allowed, like Pokécommunity, and talk about them there

And your screaming won't convince anyone at all. Joe has stated enough times that he hates all kinds of hacks, so your pretty much through, I'm afraid

Illegible
4th November 2006, 3:26 AM
Oversizing posts is an annoying act, but since you are giving us yet another weak argument, I just have to knock it down.

Read (http://www.spriters-resource.com/resources/rules.php) the fine print. It leaves a disclaimer that they do not own the sprites on the sheets there. Now, if they wish, the compainies have TOTAL RIGHT to tell the site to remove them, as happened to vgmusic.com from a handful of companies that did not approve of their property to be freely distributed.

Now, even if Nintendo supports SR, that does not mean that they support a game developer, who is probably a minor, breaking the law by putting the pkmn name on it. Now, I am no legal expert myself, but you cannot just go finding loopholes in the law and/or "exceptions", as chances are that is not good enoguh to win you a court case. Enough from me, have a nice day...

Lastly, does it even matter? I doubt Joe wishes to take such a risk on his site to have a fangame section, as I bet you are neither the first nor the last to suggest this.


EDIT: Hack or scratch, they all fit in the same bin, that is like murder and theft, they are both bad similarly, okay, bad example, but you get it...

Reg teh Yoshi
4th November 2006, 3:55 AM
Alright, i give up on my rant.


I still have ideas for fangames, and I plan to make them flourish.

If NOA wants to stop me once I get demos of them up somewhere, they'll have to just E-mail me and i'll take them down.

Also, as a little fact: South Park fangames are Legal no matter what (As long as you don't put a price on them), Because SP's creator's have said they actually like people DLing their episodes off the internet. This probably goes for SP Fangames too.

And I will stand by THAT! ALL THE WAY THROUGH!

Fiery Blaziken
4th November 2006, 4:42 AM
HEY LOOK I CAN WRITE IN ALL CAPS AND BIG TEXT TOO IM SO COOL AMIRITE?


Alright, i give up on my rant.I still have ideas for fangames, and I plan to make them flourish.

If NOA wants to stop me once I get demos of them up somewhere, they'll have to just E-mail me and i'll take them down.

Also, as a little fact: South Park fangames are Legal no matter what (As long as you don't put a price on them), Because SP's creator's have said they actually like people DLing their episodes off the internet. This probably goes for SP Fangames too.

And I will stand by THAT! ALL THE WAY THROUGH!

God, stop screaming already. Joe won't allow fangames here, period, I don't like that rule, and I'll take a wild guess that you don't either. So go do it on some other forum.

Go ahead and make a fangame site, it it gets a warning then, that's your problem, if it doesn't, good for you then, and continue it.

TRJessie579
4th November 2006, 5:33 AM
TYPING IN CAPS MAKES YOU COOL AND HELPS YOU WIN ARGUEMENTS

!Yay!

This post wins this thread. Kthxbai.

maxstrife
4th November 2006, 6:27 AM
If you can download them on the net for free they're fun...
It's when pirates put'em onto cartridges that they become bad...

Anyway, I agree with Reg Teh Yoshi, but, dude, you can't get banned for posting your opinion, unless it directly flames someone (or something like that ^^)

Anyway, good post.

your nidoking doing a mega horn sig is funny because to me it looks like nidoking is constipated

maxstrife
4th November 2006, 9:56 AM
You know, you're free to make a fan game ( I was going to, using (time for gasps) an illegal RPG Maker 2003 and XP). You're just not allowed to post it up here.

There's plenty of other places to advertise.

im not advertising thanks its my home page my site and if we cant have our sites here then why make a section where it says homepage on profile huh

you may be staff but it dosent give you the right to make faulse allagations

Zephyr Flare
4th November 2006, 5:54 PM
Making a fangame is illegal as you are using the IP of the orignal product you are making the fangame of, regardless of if you are using the orignal sprites, areas or not.

The only way to not got shot by copyright is written permission from the orignal makers OR working with their permission within their company. Generally companies will not do anything like fanart less you try and sell it but some can and will be willing to take court action regardless.


Sandra