The Oldies versus The New(ies)

[diablocon]

With the 4th Generation, we get a whole bunch of new Pokemon. Of course, like every new generation people are going to make comparisons to the previous generations, so let's settle it once and for all. Choose out of each of the following similar Pokemon which you prefer, and why:

Flygon Vs. Kaburaisu

Two Ground/Dragon types (although Kaburaisu is actually Dragon/Ground).
This is the comparison most people are making, so which do you prefer?
One has decent stats and Levitate.
The other has much better stats, but only Sand Viel.

Medicham Vs. Erureido

Two Psychic/Fightings.
One has the Pure Power ability, allowing for devestating attacks, and evenly balanced stats.
The other has much better base attack, even better than when Medicham's Pure Power is applied, and a much more varied move-pool.

Forretress Vs. Minomadamu(Steel)

Two Bug/Steels.
One has amazing defence and attack, and gets great attacks.
The other... Ok, I can't think of anything.

Sableye Vs. Mirakuge

Two Dark/Ghosts.
One has the cool typing and a good move-pool.
The other has the same typing, and better stats.

Blaziken Vs. Goukazaru

Another comparison made frequently. Two Fire/Fightings, both starters.
One has better attack.
One has better defence.
Both have great move-pools.

Every other Water/Ground Vs. Toritoidon

Yet another Water/Ground Pokemon. Wooper was so cool when he first came around, but now the typing is common. Thankfully Lanturn and Ludicolo kept their typings to themselves.

Aggron Vs. Toridepusu

This was a comparison I saw when Tatetopusu was first revealed. There both just Steel/Rocks, that's where these similarities end.

Those are the main comparisons I could think of. My answers are:

Flygon - Trapinch is cool, and so is Flygon. The only Pokemon evolution line where it's best to not evolve him right to the end.
Erureido - Just because the Ralts line is my fav. Plus, his stats are so much better.
Forretress - Guess why. :p
Mirakuge - I like his stats a lot. Shame he doesn't get some of Sableye's nifty moves.
Goukazaru - One word. Scheme.
Swampert - The only Water/Ground I like.
Neither - Not so sure of this one.

[Eerie Fuwante]

With the 4th Generation, we get a whole bunch of new Pokemon. Of course, like every new generation people are going to make comparisons to the previous generations, so let's settle it once and for all. Choose out of each of the following similar Pokemon which you prefer, and why:

Flygon Vs. Kaburaisu

Two Ground/Dragon types (although Kaburaisu is actually Dragon/Ground).
This is the comparison most people are making, so which do you prefer?
One has decent stats and Levitate.
The other has much better stats, but only Sand Viel.
IMO, Flygon, because of Levitate basically.

Medicham Vs. Erureido

Two Psychic/Fightings.
One has the Pure Power ability, allowing for devestating attacks, and evenly balanced stats.
The other has much better base attack, even better than when Medicham's Pure Power is applied, and a much more varied move-pool.
Erureido with no doubt. It has a great movepool and way better stats then Medicham.

Forretress Vs. Minomadamu(Steel)

Two Bug/Steels.
One has amazing defence and attack, and gets great attacks.
The other... Ok, I can't think of anything.
Forretress. I wonder why.:p

Sableye Vs. Mirakuge

Two Dark/Ghosts.
One has the cool typing and a good move-pool.
The other has the same typing, and better stats.
Mikaruge of course. It does have a good movepool IMO.

Blaziken Vs. Goukazaru

Another comparison made frequently. Two Fire/Fightings, both starters.
One has better attack.
One has better defence.
Both have great move-pools.
Goukazaru, because of a better movepool and a more effective sweeping mix.

Every other Water/Ground Vs. Toritoidon

Yet another Water/Ground Pokemon. Wooper was so cool when he first came around, but now the typing is common. Thankfully Lanturn and Ludicolo kept their typings to themselves.
Swampert also.

Aggron Vs. Toridepusu

This was a comparison I saw when Tatetopusu was first revealed. There both just Steel/Rocks, that's where these similarities end.
Aggron, since he has an alot better Attacking stats and movepool.



Comments in bold.

[TeddiUrsa]

Flygon Vs. Kaburaisu



Flygon, I like Kaburaisu, being a land-shark and swiming in sand and all..very cool, but I like flygon a bit more, because of its colour-sheme and its eyes...but it is very very close


Medicham Vs. Erureido



It´s a draw. I like both. Medicham is one of my favourite Pokemon since I started to draw it a few years ago and is in my BF team at lvel 100 ( and I HATE training...), Erlade is very cool as well and might become one of my favorites as well. I like its arms and its "hair"...I like to draw it as well.



Forretress Vs. Minomadamu(Steel)



Forr-forr!!
I like Forretress a lot more. Mostly because of the anime, but it is still awesome, isn´t it? I dislike Minomadame´s nose...trying to copy the lovley Usopp...



Sableye Vs. Mirakuge



Hard to say...I need to see Sugimori art of the new Ghost/dark-thingie...



Blaziken Vs. Goukazaru



I really really hate Blaziken since I first saw it...yet, I like the rest of the Torchic-line.
And I dislike monkeys since I´m a child...maybe I´ve got a trauma? ^^;
I still despise the ugly fighting "chicken" more than monkeys, so...I´ll go with the monkey for its awesome Son-Goku theme.



Every other Water/Ground Vs. Toritoidon



Whiscash is my favourite Pokemon and no other water/ground pokemon will ever beat it. end of story.



Aggron Vs. Toridepusu




I think I´ll go with Aggron, because I like his GC-animation when he moves. Godzilla very much ^^ Our fossile friend is too shield-ish for my taste. I like its "head through the wall"-fossil brother more.

[Nintendo_6444]

Gaburaisu Cause of its Awsome pre-evo Gabaito, Flygon is just a Scorpionfly.. A very odd one at that..

~~;444; "Wo! I.... (Shut up Gabaito..) Ohhh..."

["L"]

Medicham is way better now in team battle. Shuckle uses power trick, and Medi uses Power Swap. His power becomes way passes uber.

Aggron vs. toridepusu
No comparison really, ones a sweeper, ones a wall.

Blaziken vs. Goukuzaru.
Although I like blaziken better Goukuzaru is a better sweeper due to his speed

[diablocon]

Gaburaisu Cause of its Awsome pre-evo Gabaito, Flygon is just a Scorpionfly.. A very odd one at that..

~~;444; "Wo! I.... (Shut up Gabaito..) Ohhh..."

Actually, the whole Flygon line is based on the Ant-Lion.

[Nintendo_6444]

Actually, the whole Flygon line is based on the Ant-Lion.

Trapinch-Antlion (Scorion fly larva)
Vibrava-Pupa?
Flygon-Adult Scorpion fly

Sooooo Hah! XP

~~;444; "Sharks Rule!!!"

["L"]

Trapinch=Ant
Vibrava=Dragonfly
Flygon=Dragonfly

[Nintendo_6444]

Dragonflys live Near WATER... Flygon live in a desert.... Deserts have no water...

~~ *Gone*

[diablocon]

This isn't why I started the thread. Let's try and keep it on track.

[Mitja]

Dragonflys live Near WATER... Flygon live in a desert.... Deserts have no water...

~~ *Gone*
loool
a mouse lives in a forest...theres no electricity....pikachu doesnt exist xP
horses live on plains....fire rulez there yeah...fire horse =D
many pokes are an unexpected type of the animal it is in in the real world

dragonfly - dragon+fly --> fly+dragon --->fly+gon=FLYGON!!11 =q
i doesnt look like a scorpion in any way

and like other said...in this comprasions there are pokes that have better stats and movepools:
aggron>torideps
erlaid>medicham
metapod>toritodon =?
....

[diablocon]

metapod>toritodon =?
....

Erm, how are Metapod and Toritodon related exactly?

[Nintendo_6444]

loool
a mouse lives in a forest...theres no electricity....pikachu doesnt exist xP
horses live on plains....fire rulez there yeah...fire horse =D
many pokes are an unexpected type of the animal it is in in the real world

dragonfly - dragon+fly --> fly+dragon --->fly+gon=FLYGON!!11 =q
i doesnt look like a scorpion in any way

and like other said...in this comprasions there are pokes that have better stats and movepools:
aggron>torideps
erlaid>medicham
metapod>toritodon =?
....
Scorpion flys look like brown Dragonflys... sooo...

Scorpionfly+Dragon=Flygon!

~~ *...*

[Nintendo_6444]

Erm, how are Metapod and Toritodon related exactly?
Armor? Maybe?

[diablocon]

Please, can we get this topic back on track. I honestly don't care what Flygon is, I was just saying what I thought it was.

["L"]

Sableeye vs. Mikaruge
Way better stats for Mikaruge. Could OHKO sableye easily

[S.Suikun]

Flygon Vs. Kaburaisu
Flygon has those cool goggle thingies. Kaburaisu has a giant cold pill sticking out from each side of his head. Flygon wins.

Medicham Vs. Erureido
You take a male of each and you have the fruitiest humanshape Pokemon around. Erureido wins because of its relation to gardevoir, however.

Forretress Vs. Minomadamu(Steel)
Forretress is a giant head. Minomadamu is a friggin' basket. Everyone knows giant heads are cooler.

Sableye Vs. Mirakuge
Sableye sucks, but it's not as obnoxious to obtain, and I honestly don't know what the hell Mikaruge is supposed to be. Sableye wins.

Blaziken Vs. Goukazaru
I. HATE. MONKEYS. End of discussion. Ugly guy in the chicken suit wins.

Every other Water/Ground Vs. Toritoidon
The existance of Marshtomp alone singlehandedly makes the other Pokemon triumph over Toritoidon, even thouh Toritoidon is actually my highest-leveled Pokemon in pearl.

Aggron Vs. Toridepusu
Toridepesu is just some mountain lion that bashed his face into a slab of cement and it stayed that way. Aggron obviously.

[Nintendo_6444]

Anyway..

Flygon Vs. Kaburaisu

Gaburaisu.. XP

Medicham Vs. Erureido

Erureido. Medicham has ugly things on its legs...

Forretress Vs. Minomadamu(Steel)

Minomadamu. It can also me grass and ground.

Sableye Vs. Mirakuge

Mirakuge. Never liked Sableye, Never will.

Blaziken Vs. Goukazaru

I HATE monkeys.... I like Chickens better... Blaziken probobly tastes good too... XD

Every other Water/Ground Vs. Toritoidon

The Blue Toritoidon pre-evo. =P

Aggron Vs. Toridepusu

Aggron. I dunno... Toridepusu is kinda dumb looking.

~~

[Dotaitos Tree]

some of the new pokemon are a little odd or just wierd but if were talking about games i like in r/b/y when you flew you turned into the pokemon

[diablocon]

some of the new pokemon are a little odd or just wierd but if were talking about games i like in r/b/y when you flew you turned into the pokemon

Erm, that's not the point of this thread.

[Maestro Kinético]

The oldies are much better in design, I don't know about the attacks. Mirakuge is one of the weirdest Pokemon, so bizarre.

[dragonzrule]

ya i like old pokemon better 2 my favorite gen. in design would have to be jhoto because all of them were light and free spirited but now they are getting dark and way to detailed

[Cenodoxus]

Another comparison:

Rentoraa VS Manectric
It`s a shame, really, because I love Manectric, but I`m gonna have to say Rentoraa.

[diablocon]

Another comparison:

Rentoraa VS Manectric
It`s a shame, really, because I love Manectric, but I`m gonna have to say Rentoraa.

I'd say Rentoraa compares more to Ampharos, both 2 level evolution electric Pokemon.

[Eerie Fuwante]

I'd say Rentoraa compares more to Ampharos, both 2 level evolution electric Pokemon.

True, and IMO, Rentoraa is a physical Ampharos stats wise.

[AJ Flibble]

True, and IMO, Rentoraa is a physical Ampharos stats wise.

And is outclassed by Amphy too.

Also, Aggron > Toridetopsu. Aggron can actually DO something, unlike the 'tops that just sits there doing **** all.

I also prefer Aggron's design.

Totoridon is perhaps the second worst out of all four fully-evolved Water/Grounds, but it's my favourite. The combo is getting old though IMO.

[The Benmeister]

Noctowl > Swellow > Mukkuhawk > Pidgeot

There's my two cents.

[diablocon]

Noctowl > Swellow > Mukkuhawk > Pidgeot

There's my two cents.

Noctowl and Swellow are comparable, and so are Mukkuhawk and Pigeot, but not all 4 of them. It is actually:

Fearow, Noctowl and Swellow

Pidgeot and Mukkuhawk

That's what I think.

[The Benmeister]

Didn't stop me.

And I was comparing the common birds. If I were to include Fearow I'd put it at the top.

And you CAN compare them all. If Swellow > Pidgeot, you should be able to do so with the others.

[starterlover1]

With the 4th Generation, we get a whole bunch of new Pokemon. Of course, like every new generation people are going to make comparisons to the previous generations, so let's settle it once and for all. Choose out of each of the following similar Pokemon which you prefer, and why:

Flygon Vs. Kaburaisu

Two Ground/Dragon types (although Kaburaisu is actually Dragon/Ground).
This is the comparison most people are making, so which do you prefer?
One has decent stats and Levitate.
The other has much better stats, but only Sand Viel.
IMO, Flygon. It still has good moves, decent stats, and levitate on its side. Plus, I think it looks cooler.

Medicham Vs. Erureido

Two Psychic/Fightings.
One has the Pure Power ability, allowing for devestating attacks, and evenly balanced stats.
The other has much better base attack, even better than when Medicham's Pure Power is applied, and a much more varied move-pool.
Pretty much the same here. They both have good movepools, both have good abilities, and both look cool.

Forretress Vs. Minomadamu(Steel)

Two Bug/Steels.
One has amazing defence and attack, and gets great attacks.
The other... Ok, I can't think of anything.
Minomadamu. I like it because its more original and has balanced defensive stats.

Sableye Vs. Mirakuge

Two Dark/Ghosts.
One has the cool typing and a good move-pool.
The other has the same typing, and better stats.
Although its less original, I like mirakuge better. Better stats, gets the job done, and a great type combo to boot.

Blaziken Vs. Goukazaru

Another comparison made frequently. Two Fire/Fightings, both starters.
One has better attack.
One has better defence.
Both have great move-pools.
Although I like both, I DEFINATELY prefer Blaziken. Why? Better movepool for one thing. Second, it was actually original in its type combo, which goukazaru has stolen. Blaziken's offenses are higher, and defenses are only 1 point lower than goukazaru's. It can speed itself up with agility. Lastly, it just looks cooler.

Every other Water/Ground Vs. Toritoidon

Yet another Water/Ground Pokemon. Wooper was so cool when he first came around, but now the typing is common. Thankfully Lanturn and Ludicolo kept their typings to themselves.
I really don't care for any water/ground type besides Swampert. It actually has the stats to make itself widely used. Plus, it looks cooler.

Aggron Vs. Toridepusu

This was a comparison I saw when Tatetopusu was first revealed. There both just Steel/Rocks, that's where these similarities end.
I like Aggron because it can defend physically, AND attack. Toridepusu just doesn't have the offensive stats to use its good movepool well.

Those are the main comparisons I could think of. My answers are:

Flygon - Trapinch is cool, and so is Flygon. The only Pokemon evolution line where it's best to not evolve him right to the end.
Erureido - Just because the Ralts line is my fav. Plus, his stats are so much better.
Forretress - Guess why. :p
Mirakuge - I like his stats a lot. Shame he doesn't get some of Sableye's nifty moves.
Goukazaru - One word. Scheme.
Swampert - The only Water/Ground I like.
Neither - Not so sure of this one.

My thoughts in bold.

[Eerie Fuwante]

And is outclassed by Amphy too.



Now that he can learn Signal Beam and Power Gem. *-*

Oh, and is it just me or did you disapear for a while AJ Fibble?

[Digital Flareon]

Flygon Vs. Kaburaisu
Flygon is like the Gaara of Pokemon to me. FLYGON

Medicham Vs. Erureido
I can't say I wanna use both someday. DRAW

Forretress Vs. Minomadamu(Steel)
Minomadames are 100% female, so it's all good. MINOMADAME

Sableye Vs. Mirakuge
Mirakuge is more wicked looking and has better stats, but Sableye's got ice, baby. DRAW

Blaziken Vs. Goukazaru
People like chickens and monkeys. I do too. DRAW

Every other Water/Ground Vs. Toritoidon
Swampert's okay, and so is Toritoidon, but Quagshire wins for looking so cute and dopey. OLD WATER/GROUND TYPES

Aggron Vs. Toridepusu
Aggron ftw. AGGRON

[Miltonic]

ill much rather have Erureido than ugly medicham besides that gardevoir is one of my favorite pokemon and that erureido is its split evo mamkes it my favorite also

[Walking Contradiction]

With the 4th Generation, we get a whole bunch of new Pokemon. Of course, like every new generation people are going to make comparisons to the previous generations, so let's settle it once and for all. Choose out of each of the following similar Pokemon which you prefer, and why:

Flygon Vs. Kaburaisu

Two Ground/Dragon types (although Kaburaisu is actually Dragon/Ground).
This is the comparison most people are making, so which do you prefer?
One has decent stats and Levitate.
The other has much better stats, but only Sand Viel.
Kaburaisu. Simply because of the stats and the looks.

Medicham Vs. Erureido

Two Psychic/Fightings.
One has the Pure Power ability, allowing for devestating attacks, and evenly balanced stats.
The other has much better base attack, even better than when Medicham's Pure Power is applied, and a much more varied move-pool.
I hate both of them, but I have to say Erureido because I hate Medicham more than him.

Forretress Vs. Minomadamu(Steel)

Two Bug/Steels.
One has amazing defence and attack, and gets great attacks.
The other... Ok, I can't think of anything.
Forretress, because I totally hate the looks of all the Minomadamus

Sableye Vs. Mirakuge

Two Dark/Ghosts.
One has the cool typing and a good move-pool.
The other has the same typing, and better stats.
Mirakuge. No question. Cooler looks and great Defenses.

Blaziken Vs. Goukazaru

Another comparison made frequently. Two Fire/Fightings, both starters.
One has better attack.
One has better defence.
Both have great move-pools.
Goukazaru. It now feels like Blaziken never existed. Goukazaru=Awesomeness

Every other Water/Ground Vs. Toritoidon

Yet another Water/Ground Pokemon. Wooper was so cool when he first came around, but now the typing is common. Thankfully Lanturn and Ludicolo kept their typings to themselves.
Swampert wins this one hands down. I'm getting sick of all those too common dual-types

Aggron Vs. Toridepusu

This was a comparison I saw when Tatetopusu was first revealed. There both just Steel/Rocks, that's where these similarities end.
Toridepusu because of the Attack stat pwnage. I never really liked Aggron anyway. My answers are in bold.

[AJ Flibble]

Now that he can learn Signal Beam and Power Gem. *-*

Oh, and is it just me or did you disapear for a while AJ Fibble?

wtf

I've always been here. It's AJ "Flibble" btw, not "Fibble."

Minomadu has bad stats across the board - it can't do particuarly much. Forretress is also preferred by me.

[Swellow_91]

Flygon - Kaburaisu
Very hard... Flygon for its looks and Kaburaisu for his stats.

Medicham - Erureido
Erureido of course:p It's one of my alltime favorites and has an awesome movepool.

Forretress - Minomadamu ( Steel )
Forretress , I just don't like Minomadamu.

Sableye - Mirakuge
Mirakuge; better movepool, better stats... Owns Sableye in all possible ways.

Blaziken - Goukazaru
Also very hard... Blaziken , because it was the first Fire/Fight type.

Quagsire / Swampert - Toritodon
Swampert , the only thing Toritodon has what Swampert doesn't have is Recover.

Aggron - Toridepusu
Toridepusu , an awesome tank.

Final score : 3.5 VS 3.5

[AgainstMe!]

Flygon, because of levitate. I think he would be cool as a Bug/Dragon type, coz he looks like a dragonfly. but yeah, im also a little ****** that Kaburaisu's shiny looks exactly the same as the regular one

Erureido. I was never impressed by medicham's stats.

Forretress b/c of spiking and explosion

Mikaruge. Better stats, arguably better movepool

Blaziken or Goukazaru is tough. it doesnt really matter, theyre almost the same.

Swampert for me, too. he's the best.

i dont care about the last one.

[TeddiUrsa]

Everybody who compares Toritodon to older water/ground types seems to forget whiscash at all...it really makes me sad...*sheeesh*

[groudon455]

Flygon Vs. Kaburaisu
I've never really been a massive fan of Flygon even though he is very good and in my opinion Kaburaisu seems really cool and strong so Kaburaisu.

Medicham Vs. Erureido
Ive never like Medicham at all and since them moment I saw Erureido I loved him, so definately Erureido.

Forretress Vs. Minomadamu
I would have Forretress because its cooler and in my oppinion was much better attacks.

Sableye Vs. Mirakuge
I dont like either of them... at all, ill probably train them both at some point when im bored, but if i had to choose then it would be Mirakuge.

Blaziken and Goukazaru
Fire is my favourite type and i really like both of them but if I had to pick one it would be Blaziken because I think he is a lot cooler.

Water/Ground Vs. Toritoidon
Toritoidon looks kinda wierd and Swampert is in a different class to it so definately Swampert.

Aggron Vs. Toridepusu
Aggron definately, better stats, better moves and sooooo much cooler


Another one I'm surprized hasn't been pointed out is Metagross and Dootakun who are both steel psychics but obviously Metagross is better at everything, Dootakun is the top of one of those statue things indians have thats floating.

[JazzJazz]

Blaziken or Goukazaru is tough. it doesnt really matter, theyre almost the same.

It all comes down to what you prefer birds or monkeys! Stats don't set these two apart, it all depends on where your preferences lie.

[derkins]

Flygon
Erureido
Forretress
Sableye
B=G
Tortidon is pretty nifty

[Boo]

I vote Blaziken and Kaburaisu and Erureido

[chiper12]

what about
butterfree vs garmeil
well it would be garmeil even tho buter free has better speed and spe.def and its weaker in atack and hp and the others

[diablocon]

what about
butterfree vs garmeil
well it would be garmeil even tho buter free has better speed and spe.def and its weaker in atack and hp and the others

Depends. Garmeil is pretty unique, there are no other Bug types from previous generations that rely on gender to evolve.

[swampsperts]

Flygon
Erureido
Forretress
Sableye
B=G
Tortidon is pretty nifty
i really only like Erureido there, sableye is nice too though!http://www.serebiiforums.com/images/smilies2/475.gif

[Commander Blitzkrieg]

Try this: Parukia vs. Kingdra.......OK, screw it! Parukia, hands down!!!!

[jwla]

Flygon - Kaburaisu
Flygon. I dislike the look of Kaburaisu

Medicham - Erureido
Medicham. Though I like them both, I like the quasi-mystic look of Medicham.

Forretress - Minomadamu ( Steel )
Minomadamu, I think. Merely because she looks like a bagworm!

Sableye - Mirakuge
Sableye. I don't know my reasoning for this.

Blaziken - Goukazaru
Goukazaru. I fall under Monkey in the Chinese zodiac.

Ground/Water - Toritodon
Quagsire or Whiscash. Love them both.

Aggron - Toridepusu
Toridepusu. It's a dinosaur, people! I never really like Aggron anyway.

Ampharos - Rentoraa
No contest! Ampharos! Now that she (mine always is) learns Power Gem and Signal Beam? Wheee! Though they really don't benefit. It's good for Ampharos to gain some moves!

[rocky505]

how bout a double battle raichu and ampharos vs. rentorra and elekible all four are stage 2 electrics.

[ShinyManafi]

Euereido over Medicham IMO anyday

[Cipher Admin Xaos]

Not to interject...but i dont know why the hell Game Freak made another Fire/Fighting Starter with almost same stats as Blaziken. Gokuzaru(Sic) even out ranks him and can learn his moves via egg!

[JazzJazz]

how bout a double battle raichu and ampharos vs. rentorra and elekible all four are stage 2 electrics.

What about this double battle? What are you trying to point out?

[Cipher Admin Xaos]

IMO Quagsire > Whishcash. Quagsire could learn ice beam and sludge bomb

[.Bambi.]

Flygon Vs. Kaburaisu
Kaburaisu. Just because I think it's ultimately cooler, I love its design. Plus, 130 Attack...yeah.

Medicham Vs. Erureido
Don't really like either of them, but I guess Erureido because it's of the Ralts line.

Forretress Vs. Minomadamu(Steel)
Minomadamu. Because I love the Steel and Grass versions of her, and I don't like Foretress period.

Sableye Vs. Mirakuge
SABLEYE. Nothing to say, as I love that thing.

Blaziken Vs. Goukazaru
Hate Blaziken. Though I prefer Moukazaru, Goukazaru definetly takes it.

Every other Water/Ground Vs. Toritoidon
Toritoidon is actually my favourite of the Water/Ground double types. It's kind of cute.

Aggron Vs. Toridepusu
Aggron. Don't like the Shield Fossils...