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Serebii
19th January 2007, 1:49 PM
http://www.serebii.net/anime/NextOn/484.jpgA Gruff Act To Follow

It's finally time for Ash's battle against Roark. In a 3 VS 3 Match, Ash faces a tough challenge for his first Sinnoh Gym Battle. Will Ash be able to beat Roark or will he fall flat on the hard rock?

Visit The Episode Guide (http://www.serebii.net/anime/epiguide/shinou/484.shtml)

Discuss

Weav-vile
19th January 2007, 1:55 PM
Still gotta see it to make my final conclusions, but I think it's gonna be fine. But... Ash's battle cannot surpass Shinji's, 'cause his was way so tense and full of crazyness, oh yeah.

- Nozomi

Eerie Fuwante
19th January 2007, 2:44 PM
This was weird. the episode was Zugaidos vs. Pikachu but it sounded more like: Everyone vs. Zugaidos! Surprising Onix!?. Yeah, Pikachu actually losing to ONIX was just ridiculous. Could've atleast lost to another fossil pokemon that Hyouta doesn't have in the game like Kabutops.

Atleast Naetle defeated Zugaidos.

Onijon
19th January 2007, 3:45 PM
Pikachu VS Onix was nostalgic

Pokemon Fan
19th January 2007, 4:16 PM
This was weird. the episode was Zugaidos vs. Pikachu but it sounded more like: Everyone vs. Zugaidos! Surprising Onix!?. Yeah, Pikachu actually losing to ONIX was just ridiculous. Could've atleast lost to another fossil pokemon that Hyouta doesn't have in the game like Kabutops.
Pikachu losing to Onix made more sense than losing to a Kabutops might have (assuming they paid attention to its Water type). Plus that Screech Onix used looked incredible (I like how the anime adds effects to moves like Screech and Tail Whip at times).

The animation was excellent and there were a few neat strategies used. I especially liked many of the explosions (you could feel real force behind them so they didn't look so silly) from attacks colliding.

Pikachu's use of its lightning to blast boulders at Onix and thus hurt it was quite a nice touch. Naetle's endurance against the Flamethrower and proceeding to blast Zugaidos unconscious also was quite good.

Though I will note, Pikachu sure misused its power at one point in the episode. I mean when Shinji was leaving and Pikachu got upset and released that gigantic Thunder that had Shinji wide-eyed and speechless, if it had actually hit Zugaidos with that attack it probably would have won, leaving Naetle in a better position to take on Onix and Geodude. But, past is past...

Really, considering we just saw these pokemon fight in the previous episode, I didn't find the battle boring at all. Ash's pokemon had a very different range of attacks to use and Hyouta's responded with their own variations.

On another note, I am loving the crazy quirks Mukkubird has. Its disappointment and shame at not being chosen for the gym battle was hilarious and leads me to wonder if it will have an equally over-the-top reaction when it does get chosen for a gym battle.

Sadly, next episode seems to have rather ugly art, but at least that raises the chance of the rematch episode having better art. Rampard deserves to at least be drawn decently.

Mukkubird: "NOOOO! I thought... I thought the newly evolved Pokemon always gets used in the next gym battle..." *hangs head and leans against column in shame*

MechaBulba
19th January 2007, 4:25 PM
I have only seen the episode pictures and i far as i can see we did not even see Old geodude in battle? They could have at least had Aipom knock it out with a powerful focus punch.

I loved Mukubirds shock at not being choosen. I would love to know what ash or the girl (4get sp) said to him.

Also two other questions.
1. I heard that Shinji traded Azumaril! Who for? was it Mukurow or do we not know?
2. Wat attack was Aipom doing when rolled up in an unrealistic perfect ball?

FireFalcon
19th January 2007, 4:46 PM
Also two other questions.
1. I heard that Shinji traded Azumaril! Who for? was it Mukurow or do we not know?
2. Wat attack was Aipom doing when rolled up in an unrealistic perfect ball?

1. shinji hasn't traded azumarril, he just gave it away to a boy

2. i thought it was focus punch

Celebitwo
19th January 2007, 5:02 PM
1. shinji hasn't traded azumarril, he just gave it away to a boy

when did that happen?

BugLoverCody
19th January 2007, 5:09 PM
I just saw the episode. I liked it, though I liked the ShinjiVSHyouta episode more. Ash's battle was more realistic though.

I felt sorry about poor Mukkubird (which seems to have self-confidence problems lol). Hyouta used a good strategy this time, cause he sent his powerhouse out first, to tire Ash's Pokemon. The most stupid thing Ash did was that he sent Aipom out first. Aipom should have been used agains a Pokemon of its size, like Geodude.

I think Ash should have tired Zugaidosu with Pikachu, then finish it of with Naetoru. Pikachu and Naetoru could defeat Onix, and then Aipom could defeat Geodude. But, anyways, Hyouta was smarter so he deserved to win.

I was really mad at Shinji in this episode. This guy is really snobbish! I mean, what is his problem? I used to like him up until I saw this episode. He really shall lose once so that he gets to know what it feels like.

Cody

Ash6K
19th January 2007, 5:14 PM
Saw the pics! Mukkubird=hilarious! I've never seen a pokemon feel neglected before in Ash's team. Mukkubird has shown me that! Oh...poor Mukkubird. Anyway, I like the battle. I'm glad Zugaidosu didn't finish all of Ash's pokemon and that Naetle beat it. As for Onix, I'm glad it beat Pikachu. I mean I like Pika, but an Onix and/or a Geodude needs some wins here.

ChaosMage
19th January 2007, 6:25 PM
Mukkubird, I friggin' love you! The battle seems OK, I'm happy that Onix was the unexpected winner.

Weav-vile
19th January 2007, 7:08 PM
Having watched the whole episode, gotta discharge my favourite parts of it. Yep, here =P

Well, overral I was pretty surprised with this one. Losts of funny moments, lots of really good animation, lots of good writing and good plot too.

From the beginning, the episode already made me like it. Hikari almost attacking Shinji and turning into an evil creature? That's hawt, wow! By the way, does anybody know why did she get so nervous? What did Shinji tell her? And talking about the man, looks like he indeed gave its Azumarill to a boy. Yeah, now he's gaving his own [weak?] pokés to people too.

Another Hikari's [and only other?] moment I liked was the one in which she consoled Mukkubado with her "Daijobu, daijobu!" (Cute!) when the thing became to act all down 'cause Ash didn't chose it for the gym battle. My, I love this bird, btw xD

That Team Rocket museum's tour was totally LOL too! C'mon, Meowth was dressed up like a crazy scientist... I loved its eyes, really xD
And not forgetting about Wobbuffet! Haha, its clothes were so funny too, goshhh!
And surprise, Armaldo! Yeah, the thing scared the hell outta Jesse... That was funny to watch too.
And looks like they're planing something [old news?]... Something kewl, hell yeahhh!

And, oh, what city is that? I mean, I know it's Kurogane city, and I've already said that I loved it before, but... It's amazing! That sun, that lab, that Poké center, that gym... My God, they never had worked so hard in a city like they did this time from what I can remember. It's amazing to see that scenario... Awww. ^.^

I'm happy to see some cool stuff like that happening in D/P series, 'cause it reminds me of Kanto (dunno why, but it does). This episode proved the team is still good, and can make a real good episode like they used to do like years (many one) ago.

About Ash's battle, it was better than I thought it'd be. The good animation just made it more cool to see, and, like someone already said, even though we've already seem Hyouta battling recently, it was worthing seeing; Ash's pokémon had different strategies and moves, and Hyouta's too. Onix' Screech was indeed cool to see either.
And no, I don't think there's something wrong with Ash losing his first Shinou gym battle, really. Things happen, and we all gotta accept them. We have no choice, anyway, do we? :P

And that's that, really good episode. Gotta say I can't wait 'till next week, I think things're gonna be outta control, and that means it'll rock, of course : D

- Nozomi

CyberCubed
19th January 2007, 7:15 PM
I'm happy to see some cool stuff like that happening in D/P series, 'cause it reminds me of Kanto (dunno why, but it does). This episode proved the team is still good, and can make a real good episode like they used to do like years (many one) ago.

We've been seeing this quality of writing for the last 4 years now. The D/P series has been on par with AG for the most part, aside from some more redundant segments, (another coordinator, another grass type).

To say that the team has finally made a good series again when Battle Frontier was considered the best saga in the shows history as well as Hoenn, which brought back the magic of the original Kanto and did a three-year saga right again is absurd.

It would be nice if the people who barely payed any attention to AG in the first place would stop fanboying the D/P series, we've seen this type of comedy and/or characerisation for the last 4 years. Its pretty much proof you didn't pay attention to AG at all.

Weav-vile
19th January 2007, 7:51 PM
We've been seeing this quality of writing for the last 4 years now. The D/P series has been on par with AG for the most part, aside from some more redundant segments, (another coordinator, another grass type).

To say that the team has finally made a good series again when Battle Frontier was considered the best saga in the shows history as well as Hoenn, which brought back the magic of the original Kanto and did a three-year saga right again is absurd.

It would be nice if the people who barely payed any attention to AG in the first place would stop fanboying the D/P series, we've seen this type of comedy and/or characerisation for the last 4 years. Its pretty much proof you didn't pay attention to AG at all.

First of all, this is a thread to discuss the episode in question itself. But since I've been just said to didn't watch AG (which I watched entirely), I'll give myself a right of answer.

Look, Battle Frontier was indeed a good series, but it had nothing to do with good old Kanto. But it was still good, and imho "Spurt!" is the best opening ever.
But, hey, Ag back to Hoenn was boring (most part of it).
There was always happening the same damn thing, always. Nothing changed, they were always helping out a character to introduce to the series new pokémon, a thing we don't see happening in D/P.
And I know you're a May fan, and I like her a lot too, but... May's just another girl - like Hikari is. We can do nothing against Hoenn's boring plot. Just because she started with the Contest thing, it doesn't mean she's a godess or something. Contest aren't ORIGINAL at all, they just showed some appealings the games brought with the same old way to battle we're used to. That's how I see it.
Drew? Drew was nothing new too. He's just a Gary 2, but a bishonen one.
Max was there just to remind us that it was a show for kids, he did nothing new or constructive, just nothing.
In Battle Frontier, however, the writers fixed the whole thing, they gice the show action.
And now DP is getting even better, but it can still be bad as Hoenn was (I really hope it not to be, but, like I always say, anything can happen).
But... You? I've read all the episode discussion threads, and all you did in the beginning of this series was criticize it because May was gone and you failed to accept that. Funny how you always say Misty's fans fail to accept she's gone... How things are.
But then, when you saw that this series was getting really good, you stopped arguing with everyone else and just accepted things like they are.
So, Cyber, why would you be back with those boring discussions again? It won't take anyone anywhere... =/
So just stop it, with me or with anyone else.
Let's move one and accept the opinion of others, ok?

- Nozomi

PANCAKE
19th January 2007, 8:01 PM
Wow! What a fantastic battle! The best thing about it was the attack collisions. Reminiscant Headbutt and Volt Tackle hitting head to head was great. Even Naetoru was gaining points with me for those razor leaf hits. Pikachu also made good use of thunderbolt to tear the gym floor up and pummel Onix with boulders. That beats cheap electric/ground wins any day of the week.

Poor Aipom was getting the snot beat out of him. It was sent flying back into Ash's hands with enough force to put them both on the ground. The use of double team dodging flamethrower sure was purdy, as was swift attack.

For those asking about Geodude, forget that grey galoot! It's services werent needed for the battle. Hyouta wiped that gym floor clean with just 2 of his Pokemon, and I'm GLAD Onix was second choice. Speaking of Onix, screech looked amazing. I loved how the power was turned up from a low tone, making Pikapancakes!

On a final note, Shinji's facial expressions were hilarious. The way he was watching Ash use effective stratigies was golden. The guy looked like he ate a couple packages of Sour Patch Kids. Also, I thought it was a nice touch of character for him to give away Azumaril to that kid. Not in a kind suger-plums chairty donation way, but in a very selfish unpatient one. He wanted nothing more to do with the thing, so he just gave it away. He got nothing in return. Just wanted to be rid of it.

9/10 for me on this eppy.

-PANCAKE-

Pika Hikari KT
19th January 2007, 8:22 PM
-Can't really blame Shinji for giving away Azumarill...the bunny did NOT do well last episode.

-Poor Mukubird...makes me wonder if that blow to the head made it forget its weakness to Rock?

-Zugaidos' KO look was hilarious and cute at the same time.@_@

-Meowth's costume strangely resembles the professor in the Porygon episode.o_0

-Onix: GaROOOOAAAR!*uses Screech*
Pikachu:*thinks* I think this is payback for Pewter Cityyyyy~:o*gets KOed*

Maestro Kinético
19th January 2007, 8:34 PM
First of all, this is a thread to discuss the episode in question itself. But since I've been just said to didn't watch AG (which I watched entirely), I'll give myself a right of answer.

Look, Battle Frontier was indeed a good series, but it had nothing to do with good old Kanto. But it was still good, and imho "Spurt!" is the best opening ever.
But, hey, Ag back to Hoenn was boring (most part of it).
There was always happening the same damn thing, always. Nothing changed, they were always helping out a character to introduce to the series new pokémon, a thing we don't see happening in D/P.
And I know you're a May fan, and I like her a lot too, but... May's just another girl - like Hikari is. We can do nothing against Hoenn's boring plot. Just because she started with the Contest thing, it doesn't mean she's a godess or something. Contest aren't ORIGINAL at all, they just showed some appealings the games brought with the same old way to battle we're used to. That's how I see it.
Drew? Drew was nothing new too. He's just a Gary 2, but a bishonen one.
Max was there just to remind us that it was a show for kids, he did nothing new or constructive, just nothing.
In Battle Frontier, however, the writers fixed the whole thing, they gice the show action.
And now DP is getting even better, but it can still be bad as Hoenn was (I really hope it not to be, but, like I always say, anything can happen).
But... You? I've read all the episode discussion threads, and all you did in the beginning of this series was criticize it because May was gone and you failed to accept that. Funny how you always say Misty's fans fail to accept she's gone... How things are.
But then, when you saw that this series was getting really good, you stopped arguing with everyone else and just accepted things like they are.
So, Cyber, why would you be back with those boring discussions again? It won't take anyone anywhere... =/
So just stop it, with me or with anyone else.
Let's move one and accept the opinion of others, ok?

- Nozomi

I agree with him, people is fanboying/girling(that word exists?) D/P. And if not a lot of d/P pokemon are shown with the filler character is because there are so few of them.

CyberCubed
19th January 2007, 8:45 PM
But, hey, Ag back to Hoenn was boring (most part of it).
There was always happening the same damn thing, always. Nothing changed, they were always helping out a character to introduce to the series new pokémon, a thing we don't see happening in D/P.

You obviously don't remember Hoenn very well. It was a complete fresh start where the writers changed their writing style completely, they made the fillers generally funny and actually had strong continuity throughout most of it. The whole Dewford training arc was absolutely amazing, and the episodes leading up to Rustboro were good too. I'm not going to go into later Hoenn because I want to see what Shinou does first.

What you're talking about is the Johto series, where the writers stuck to boring by-the-books filler with nothing exciting happening. Shinou is repeating the Hoenn formula, we have the same type of episodes but you barely paid any attention to Hoenn since you don't seem to remember anything about it.


We can do nothing against Hoenn's boring plot.

What exactly was boring about it? Go scan down the episode list on the site, we had fantastic episodes all in a row with only a few bad episodes in between.


Contest aren't ORIGINAL at all, they just showed some appealings the games brought with the same old way to battle we're used to. That's how I see it.

Introducing a second major story arc and a female protagonist that actually DID something helped the show tremendously. Contests got the show out of the rut it was in by showing a female do what Ash does, and this continues with Hikari in D/P.


In Battle Frontier, however, the writers fixed the whole thing, they gice the show action.

LOL, no. All the "action" started back in early AG. The whole emphasis on AG was training and battles, where are you getting your facts from?


And now DP is getting even better, but it can still be bad as Hoenn was (I really hope it not to be, but, like I always say, anything can happen).
But... You? I've read all the episode discussion threads, and all you did in the beginning of this series was criticize it because May was gone and you failed to accept that. Funny how you always say Misty's fans fail to accept she's gone... How things are.

I like D/P a lot, the only bad episode was the Naetle capture ep. That doesn't mean I'm going to automatically pretend its the best thing ever, when we've seen the same stuff for the last 4 years. If you want to pretend a series with actual continuity, character development and depth was bad, then be my guest. You're only fooling yourself, especially when you say Drew is Gary 2 but Shinji isn't. LOL.


Let's move one and accept the opinion of others, ok?

I'd accept your opinion if you actually detailed facts. You only give me vague details about Hoenn which is proof you didn't pay any attention to it. Its gotten very annoying when people act like D/P is godly when its not doing anything different than AG, and I've noticed this from several other Misty fans as well, its downright pathetic.

masukippa
19th January 2007, 8:46 PM
could someone put up a link to see the episode? i can't find one anywhere (and don't say the pictures on SPP)

CyberCubed
19th January 2007, 8:50 PM
could someone put up a link to see the episode? i can't find one anywhere (and don't say the pictures on SPP)

We're not allowed to say where to get the eps from, although you can PM someone to ask above I guess.

Weav-vile
19th January 2007, 9:00 PM
You obviously don't remember Hoenn very well. It was a complete fresh start where the writers changed their writing style completely, they made the fillers generally funny and actually had strong continuity throughout most of it. The whole Dewford training arc was absolutely amazing, and the episodes leading up to Rustboro were good too. I'm not going to go into later Hoenn because I want to see what Shinou does first. [...]

Well, I'm sorry, Cyber, but I'm not gonna explain more than I did. I used facts, yeah, but you still insist to blind your eyes from an opiner that isn't you or your friends who love Hoenn and May - what is a pity, since I enjoy your posts and other people's who insist in saying that D/P is merely A/G remixed.
One other thing: I'm nor a Misty, neither May, neither Hikari fan. I like them all, but I'm not fan of any of the girls... This meaniing I have no problem with May. Hoenn's the deal, and, uh... D/P is far different than AG.

We're done here .

- [I]Nozomi

Almighty Zard
19th January 2007, 9:11 PM
What exactly was boring about it? Go scan down the episode list on the site, we had fantastic episodes all in a row with only a few bad episodes in between.

Alot of people would probably agree that from the Groudon Kyogre fight onward the hoenn portion of AG fell flat on it's face.

Are people sure that was screch Onix used....heck if thats a screech now a days heaven forbid we see an updated Roar.

Huh did Shinji even notice Mukubird either?

CyberCubed
19th January 2007, 9:12 PM
One other thing: I'm nor a Misty, neither May, neither Hikari fan. I like them all, but I'm not fan of any of the girls... This meaniing I have no problem with May. Hoenn's the deal, and, uh... D/P is far different than AG.

What does this have to do with the girls? I'm talking about the actual writing, what girl was in each saga didn't make a difference.

AG was well-liked by everyone who didn't turn a blind eye to it just because Misty wasn't it, and tried to convince themselves it "sucked" because if they stopped watching, they wanted to prove to themselves they weren't missing anything.

Saying this episode "shocked" you by good writing is proof you didn't watch AG, since they did this same thing with Brawly in Dewford and had a whole training arc before Ash rechallenged him. The fact that you're so amazed by the writing this saga is like you're seeing this stuff for the first time, when the writers have been doing great stuff for the last 4 years. Shame.


Alot of people would probably agree that from the Groudon Kyogre fight onward the hoenn portion of AG fell flat on it's face.

Uh...no. The episodes between Tate/Liza and Juan were great, and after that was the GF and Hoenn league. All those episodes that took place on Izabe Island were wonderful and actually had continuity.

Korobooshi Kojiro
19th January 2007, 9:21 PM
I agree with him, people is fanboying/girling(that word exists?) D/P. And if not a lot of d/P pokemon are shown with the filler character is because there are so few of them.


For the love of...can your post leak anymore irony? >.>

I agree with Weavile, but speaking of fanboying a certain generation...

Anyway, this episode looks great. Funny moments, good animation, great battle. This season is really looking good.

PANCAKE
19th January 2007, 9:40 PM
Are people sure that was screch Onix used....heck if thats a screech now a days heaven forbid we see an updated Roar.

Huh did Shinji even notice Mukubird either?

I'm VERY sure it was screech. It didn't hurt Pikachu per say, it might have just blew out the poor things ear drums. It sounded like a jet plane engine starting and then going full force, blowing our little yellow hero into a pile of rocks, turning them into pebbles.

As for Shinji, he may have noticed Mukkubird but really didn't seem to give a Rattatta's a** from what I could tell.

That Scary Clefairy
19th January 2007, 9:41 PM
Uh...no. The episodes between Tate/Liza and Juan were great,

You're saying "Golden pikachu/Swellow-that-was-pulled-out-of-the-writer's-***" was a brillent and great idea???

Weavile_Striker
19th January 2007, 9:45 PM
i knew Shinji was going to give Azumarill away after that tragic loss in the gym. Looks like he also released or gave away Ursarang.

Ash's Pokemon choice in this battle was pathetic. Why didn't he use Naetle at the start?

Haha, Mukubird was hilarious in this episode. It must have forgotten it's weakness to rock types after Aipom smacked into it's head.

Can't believe Pikachu lost to an ONIX. It's like Deja Vu from when he first fought Brock.

jolteonjak
19th January 2007, 9:50 PM
All those episodes that took place on Izabe Island were wonderful and actually had continuity.


I have to agree here. Those were probably the best episodes of the AG series (Adan's being the best).

So Mukkubird actually beat its head against the pillar when Ash didn't choose it to battle? That's pretty funny. I'm starting to like this Pokemon.

After looking at the pics, this battle was completely stupid. I'm interested to see what deus ex they pull for the real battle considering Hyota's Zugaidosu evolves next week.

There didn't seem to be enough time devoted to the battle. If anything, I'd've rather the battle get interrupted by Team Rocket (ala Clair in Johto) and continued after next week's episode.

uber gon
19th January 2007, 10:01 PM
Was the white-gray aura attack of Onix's Double Edge?

Korobooshi Kojiro
19th January 2007, 10:01 PM
I still consider Hoenn my favorite region (complain all you want, but I do ) but DP may eventually overthrow that if the episode impress me as much as they have been (I'm easily impressed though).

After watching this episode in action, the pictures don't do it justice.

* Zugaidosu was awesome looking in this episode. Even know it lost, it did it in a cool way.
* Naetle won a battle!
* Aipom lost...but it had some NEAT looking attacks. It's so fun to watch battle.
* Pikachu, I must say, was even somewhat exciting now.
* Onix RULED. Seriously, I love that it beat Pikachu (revenge!). And that Screech was coming from a giant rock snake, so I could see how it hurt.
*The music that played when Pikachu flew back into the rock was awesome.
*This episode was great to look at.

CyberCubed
19th January 2007, 10:04 PM
If Ash does have another 3 on 3 with Hyouta, do you think they'll make it more interesting by at least evolving Geodude into Graveler?

I don't think I really want to see those two again...even if Geodude wasn't in this one.

S.Suikun
19th January 2007, 10:06 PM
Sadly, next episode seems to have rather ugly art, but at least that raises the chance of the rematch episode having better art. Rampard deserves to at least be drawn decently.
Not gonna happen. Izumi Shimura is boarding the rematch.

If Ash does have another 3 on 3 with Hyouta, do you think they'll make it more interesting by at least evolving Geodude into Graveler?

I don't think I really want to see those two again...even if Geodude wasn't in this one.
Two of Hyouta's Pokemon evolving would kinda be overkill. Bring a Rhyhorn out, I say.

Korobooshi Kojiro
19th January 2007, 10:07 PM
I still wonder if Ash will go with Mukkubird for the rematch? His freak-out makes me think it could happen.

I hope it's Naetle, Mukkubird, and Aipom in the rematch.

cassius335
19th January 2007, 10:10 PM
i knew Shinji was going to give Azumarill away after that tragic loss in the gym. Looks like he also released or gave away Ursarang.

Was this confirmed?

Maestro Kinético
19th January 2007, 10:11 PM
I still consider Hoenn my favorite region (complain all you want, but I do ) but DP may eventually overthrow that if the episode impress me as much as they have been (I'm easily impressed though).

After watching this episode in action, the pictures don't do it justice.

* Zugaidosu was awesome looking in this episode. Even know it lost, it did it in a cool way.
* Naetle won a battle!
* Aipom lost...but it had some NEAT looking attacks. It's so fun to watch battle.
* Pikachu, I must say, was even somewhat exciting now.
* Onix RULED. Seriously, I love that it beat Pikachu (revenge!). And that Screech was coming from a giant rock snake, so I could see how it hurt.
*The music that played when Pikachu flew back into the rock was awesome.
*This episode was great to look at.

I agree with that, you are easily impressed. Saying that an episode is good for things such as the music played when Pikachu flew confirms that.

I think I have a funny day today, your post amde me laugh a lot too.

Anywa, I looked at the pics and i didn't fond the animation that great. Zugaidos looked better in the previews one. The hole 'Hikari Volcano' thing was unnecesary.

Please don't continue with the offtopic of Hoenn and everything (although it's fun to read that AG was brilliant and original).

Korobooshi Kojiro
19th January 2007, 10:14 PM
I agree with that, you are easily impressed. Saying that an episode is good for things such as the music played when Pikachu flew confirms that.

Just like saying you don't like a Pokemon because "it looks like a Hispanic McDonald's worker" or "I'll hate the writers FOREVER if they give Hikari a Patchirisu!".

Honestly, it's fine if you don't care for episodes, but you don't have to come into the thread and berate people for their opinions. Your the one who seems to have a problem respecting them.

And I liked Hoenn better then Kanto. Deal with it.

S.Suikun
19th January 2007, 10:18 PM
Anywa, I looked at the pics and i didn't fond the animation that great. Zugaidos looked better in the previews one. The hole 'Hikari Volcano' thing was unnecesary.
Considering how Masaaki Iwane is the best animation director currently on board, I'd like to know what you think good animation in this series is.

Korobooshi Kojiro
19th January 2007, 10:20 PM
Also, what was so "unnecesary" about the whole Hikari volcano thing?

It was a small, two second scene showing her getting mad. Does every episode have to be filled with 22 minutes of stuff that is SUPER important to the plot? Can't we have a funny character reaction?

Gravy
19th January 2007, 10:30 PM
I agree with that, you are easily impressed. Saying that an episode is good for things such as the music played when Pikachu flew confirms that.
Decent music, high quality animation and tense situations are what make battles entertaining to watch. That's the sort of thing that should take priority in an episode like this.
But of course, you're the expert on how to choreograph a decent fight scene, so I really shouldn't be arguing about that!



Anywa, I looked at the pics and i didn't fond the animation that great.
HEY, LETS LOOK AT SOME STATIC PICTURES TO JUDGE HOW FLUID AND CONSISTENT THE MOVEMENT OF THE CHARACTERS IS!




The hole 'Hikari Volcano' thing was unnecesary.
Who the hell cares? It was just a fun bit of wacky visual humour. What, would you have prefered it if she just stood there, yelling in some static pose against the bland gym interior or something? Or is struggling to appreciate a decent attempt at injecting some creativity into the show's animation just too much to bear?

Seriously Kinetico, if there was an award for 'most infuriating, obnoxiously opinionated pokémon fan', you'd be getting the gold.

zeno48
19th January 2007, 10:35 PM
Did satoshi really do well in indigo plateau, win orange league, do well in the johto league and whirl cup, save the world a couple of times and win the hoenn league and battle frontier challenge? Did he really beat regice. Guess I must have mistaken him for someone else.

Korobooshi Kojiro
19th January 2007, 10:37 PM
A giant Rock snake sent Pikachu flying back into a rock by yelling in a deep baritone voice.

I mean, ouch?! Plus, Pikachu was already worn out by Zugaidosu.

S.Suikun
19th January 2007, 11:04 PM
Watched the episode, not much to say that hasn't already been said by me or anybody else. Personally, I'm not as easily impressed with episodes as many people here, as I didn't even care for last week's Shinji match, but I felt this was top notch in spite of the TR portions taking up a lot of time in the first half. It's not like this was a complete flooring of Ash. Aipom was pretty much a wasted Pokemon on Ash's part, as it practically accomplished nothing, but Pikachu and Naetle's battles were really good.

*The music that played when Pikachu flew back into the rock was awesome.
It was a neat variation of the Movie 8 intro. Most of the other songs used in the episode weren't the best, so I was happy we got an awesome piece towards the end.

Weav-vile
19th January 2007, 11:23 PM
What does this have to do with the girls? I'm talking about the actual writing, what girl was in each saga didn't make a difference.

Did you forget you included me among the poor (like you'd say) Misty's fans? Looks like yep.


AG was well-liked by everyone who didn't turn a blind eye to it just because Misty wasn't it, and tried to convince themselves it "sucked" because if they stopped watching, they wanted to prove to themselves they weren't missing anything.

Well, how can a series that wasn't liked by some people be liked by everyone?
Cyber, get real. If you liked A/G, that's ok, I'm not saying you're an idiot or pathetic for liking it. I'm not like you, no way, no. You don't and won't accept I (and some others) dislike this series just because you like it and yout think it's the best thing that ever happened to the anime, right?
And, uh, guess what? Misty's left wasn't the reason I didn't like A/G. So what? What would be the reason I dislike it? Maybe because people can like something or not.
You may like "Grey's Anatomy", I may not. I may like "Lost", you may not. Both of us can like Pokémon, but dislike some series the other actually like.


Saying this episode "shocked" you by good writing is proof you didn't watch AG, since they did this same thing with Brawly in Dewford and had a whole training arc before Ash rechallenged him. The fact that you're so amazed by the writing this saga is like you're seeing this stuff for the first time, when the writers have been doing great stuff for the last 4 years. Shame.

I didn't say it shocked me, I said it surprised me. It's a pretty different thing, huh? There's a lot of good writing in Pokémon (that's not the A/G case, imho), I just found it cool to be said because lots of people have been saying lately that the writers have lost their shine, which episodes like this proves to be wrong. Got me now?
And I'm sorry, but... What does the training for Dewford's gym have to do with this nowadays fight in Kurogane? Nothing! There're nothing in commom, it's another gym in another town... There's no beach, there's no water. There're mountains, there're rocks! And ancient Pokémon too! ^.^

And oh, I believe in another thing: We all are seeing the D/P series in japanese, we can't get all of the episodes... We don't get what they're saying, you know this. Wait 'till it comes to english, so we'll get a taste from the full thing... i'm sure much more of you are going to like and aprove it more.

- Nozomi

zeno48
19th January 2007, 11:46 PM
What I want to know is how ash managed to pull off a victory against regice. Ash has so much experience and knowledge that he shouldn't have any problems against an opponent, well at least not with pikachu by his side he shouldn't. I mean come on how does this happen. It's ridiculous and embarrasing the way he lost. But I guess no matter how much he has expierienced and learned he wont put that to the challenge. Im not bashing on ash just for his loss but also for his poor battle style. I expect more.

Hyouta really impressed me and managed to stay calm and thought out some pretty cool strategies to counter ash. Ash has conquered the battle frontier and manages to defeat regice but this really showed me that ash still has a lot to learn. But my only concern is about how shinji is this good. He is really something else. I dont know about you guys but I dont think shinji is an average trainer. For that type of skill and confidence requires a really keen trainer. I like shinji a lot but sometimes I wonder how easy he makes these things.
This is some what the level ash should have already surpassed but he is still the same. There were some funny parts but do any of you know what shinji said to hikari? It looked insulting and hilarious. I mean hikary's expression was priceless and the way shinji's expression was through out all the episodes was also entertaining.I wonder why shinji did not leave. I would have if I had to sit through lame fightting when I am expecting better from my rival. He was impressed by pikachu's strengh I guess. That caught his attention and got him to stay but the way ash was batteling I would have walked away. Pathetic

PANCAKE
19th January 2007, 11:59 PM
Aipom was pretty much a wasted Pokemon on Ash's part, as it practically accomplished nothing, but Pikachu and Naetle's battles were really good.


C'mon, give Aipom a break. It was his first gym battle and I think he held up ok. He got his teeth knocked in and damn near had a seizure when he fainted. I just hope this isn't building up a story for Aipom surpassing in Super Contests than in gym battles.



After looking at the pics, this battle was completely stupid.


Anywa, I looked at the pics and i didn't fond the animation that great.

I don't find your English or grammer all that great either. It's really sore on reading eyes. You 2 need your heads examined. How in the crap can you look at still pictures and determine silly nonsence like that. Then you have the nerve to come here and pour your ridiculous opinion in the thread without having seen it in motion. Give that garbage a rest and quit clogging the thread with meaningless banter.

Darkness Angel
20th January 2007, 12:03 AM
it was nice to see pikachu lose to onyx since in the first season he beat him in a cheap way. And I was wondering what was the name of the breath attack onyx used?

Korobooshi Kojiro
20th January 2007, 12:04 AM
Aipom was pretty much a wasted Pokemon on Ash's part, as it practically accomplished nothing, but Pikachu and Naetle's battles were really good.


I thought it had some neat looking attacks though...very Contest-y...

...................

Anyway, I really liked how they actually set-up next episode with Team Rocket. And Meowth's crazy outfit and Wobbuffet wearing a lab coat = win. XD

Magical Needle Smash
20th January 2007, 12:05 AM
Well, Shinji's "You may be able to win if you just copy what I did" line to Satoshi was pretty good, and the dramatic music was as nice as always. I don't really have anyting against Pikachu, so I liked its super-charged rallying of spirits after its initial thrashing by Zugaidosu.

Satoshi's constant cries for Shinji to watch his match... It's like he's using Shinji as a substitute while he yearns for approval from the father he never had. "Watch my battle, Papa!"

Weav-vile
20th January 2007, 12:10 AM
What I want to know is how ash managed to pull off a victory against regice. Ash has so much experience and knowledge that he shouldn't have any problems against an opponent, well at least not with pikachu by his side he shouldn't. I mean come on how does this happen. It's ridiculous and embarrasing the way he lost. [...]

Oh.My.God.

Hey now, Zeno. What's wrong with losting a battle, even though you've just won a GREAT and difficult one?

Can't an Elite 4 member/leader lost a battle? Can't the best trainer in this funky world lost a battle? Can't Ash lost? Goshhh, things happen!

I.don't.get.you.people.who.always.complain.about.n onsense.things.

Really don't.

- Nozomi

Korobooshi Kojiro
20th January 2007, 12:14 AM
Ever stand infront of a amplifier when a band was playing loudly?

Multiply that by about 400X, since Onix is huge, and that's what Pikachu felt.

CyberCubed
20th January 2007, 12:31 AM
I didn't say it shocked me, I said it surprised me. It's a pretty different thing, huh?

So wait, this surprised you yet all the plot twists in Hoenn didn't?

Ash losing to Brawly, throwing a temper tantrum, and then spending a training arc on Dewford wasn't a surprise? Ash beating Wattson in a the blink of an eye with only Pikachu and then returning 10 episodes later to lose to his Manectric wasn't surprising?

Ash not getting all the starters for once wasn't surprising? Ash actually training and evolving his Pokemon wasn't surprising? A greater emphasis on the Pokemon personalities wasn't surprising? May and Jessie both capturing Wurmple wasn't a shock?

And that's just the tip of the iceberg for stuff they did in AG that they never did before. I could go into May's arc too, but I won't.

Do you even remember any of the above happening? There was tons of stuff they did in Hoenn that shocked people when the episode titles were first revealed, and D/P does the same, why is this so suprising?

The fact that I actually have to list this stuff amazes me, because the only reason you wouldn't know about this is if you didn't watch much of AG.

The Benmeister
20th January 2007, 12:35 AM
^ Yes, because Ash participating in a contest, Mukkuru and Bonsly evolving early and Ash losing to the first gym leader isn't surprising at all, is it?

He doesn't have to like AG instead of DP, it's not the end of the world.

Pfft, the context of the show nowadays kills more lives than it saves.

CyberCubed
20th January 2007, 12:36 AM
^ Yes, because Ash participating in a contest, Mukkuru and Bonsly evolving early and Ash losing to the first gym leader isn't surprising at all, is it?

He doesn't have to like AG instead of DP, it's not the end of the world.

D/P has delivered us plot twists, but he/she is saying we never saw stuff like this before in AG.

Seriously, what were some of you doing during the previous 4 years? Twiddling your thumbs?

Weavile_Striker
20th January 2007, 12:38 AM
Ever stand infront of a amplifier when a band was playing loudly?

Multiply that by about 400X, since Onix is huge, and that's what Pikachu felt.

That sounds incredibly painful, no pun intended. But still, no matter how powerful a Screech attack is, it's kind of embarrassing to be defeated by a move that doesn't even have offensive purposes. You have to admit that.

Geodude
20th January 2007, 12:40 AM
And I was wondering what was the name of the breath attack onyx used?Screech.

Ever stand infront of a amplifier when a band was playing loudly?

Multiply that by about 400X, since Onix is huge, and that's what Pikachu felt.
Good analogy. I couldn't have put it better.

RageKaiser
20th January 2007, 12:41 AM
What exactly did Shinji say to Make Hikari go all...Evil Volcano woman-like?

Korobooshi Kojiro
20th January 2007, 12:42 AM
It was like "Who are you?" and "I don't remember you"

CyberCubed
20th January 2007, 12:43 AM
Hikari is crazy, I wonder what she would have done to Shinji if Brock didn't hold her back. :D

RageKaiser
20th January 2007, 12:44 AM
Hikari is crazy, I wonder what she would have done to Shinji if Brock didn't hold her back. :D

Ripped off the wig to reveal Jindai?

Almighty Zard
20th January 2007, 12:45 AM
What I want to know is how ash managed to pull off a victory against regice. Ash has so much experience and knowledge that he shouldn't have any problems against an opponent, well at least not with pikachu by his side he shouldn't. I mean come on how does this happen. It's ridiculous and embarrasing the way he lost. But I guess no matter how much he has expierienced and learned he wont put that to the challenge. Im not bashing on ash just for his loss but also for his poor battle style. I expect more.

For the record his so called win against Regice was rather cheaply done. I mean we don't know if Regice was using Rest or Curse but most assumed Rest in which case it's hard to believe it fell to a smiple VT after it had used the move.


But my only concern is about how shinji is this good. He is really something else. I dont know about you guys but I dont think shinji is an average trainer. For that type of skill and confidence requires a really keen trainer. I like shinji a lot but sometimes I wonder how easy he makes these things.

The one thing i find funny when i watched Shinji's battle is that he battles just like Ash did pre AG using the more power less strategy approach.>>

I have one question(since i don't understand japanese), did Shinji notice Mukubird at all, or is he somewhat blind?

Zugadosu when it fainted...priceless.

Weav-vile
20th January 2007, 12:48 AM
So wait, this surprised you yet all the plot twists in Hoenn didn't? Yep.

Ash losing to Brawly, throwing a temper tantrum, and then spending a training arc on Dewford wasn't a surprise? What's so surprising about that? I didn't say I was surprised by Ash losing to hyouta, I did say I was surpresied by the good episode I had just watched. Team Rocket got a hell of a grea time on it, that surprised me, and I had a very good time watching it. But, Ash lsing? C'mon, I read spoilers, and wins & losts aren't always surprising. Ash beating Wattson in a the blink of an eye with only Pikachu and then returning 10 episodes later to lose to his Manectric wasn't surprising? Why would it be? O.o

Ash not getting all the starters for once wasn't surprising? No. I always knew he was going to get only Treecko since Brock got Mudkip (that was surprising!) and May got Torchic. Why on earth would Ash have a Pokémon his partners already had? Ash actually training and evolving his Pokemon wasn't surprising? ??? That's what he's supposed to do, don't you think? I gotta agree Hoenn had more evos than usually, but still, the evos were always out-of-the-blues... =/ A greater emphasis on the Pokemon personalities wasn't surprising? That has happened before, AG just repeated this formula, like you say D/P does. May and Jessie both capturing Wurmple wasn't a shock? That was pretty obvious, too. you just had to think a little, huh? just obvious.

Do you even remember any of the above happening? What you think? Of course I do, I watched the w-h-o-l-e Pokémon series till its beginning. Hoenn bothered me, and that's it. =/ I remember ehn May caught that cute Skitty and it always jumped out of its ball, I was so entusiasmatic about it, and... What did they do? Stopped it. They stopped the very first thing I actually loved in AG from happening. Cool. There was tons of stuff they did in Hoenn that shocked people when the episode titles were first revealed, and D/P does the same, why is this so suprising? Only blind people like you, who were so happy that Misty left that could not see the boring and kiddish (yeah, kiddish) thing they were watchig. ;- )

The fact that I actually have to list this stuff amazes me, because the only reason you wouldn't know about this is if you didn't watch much of AG. Oh, really? You can ask me ANYTHING, I dare you to do that, about AG, 'cause I watched that whole boring thing. The.whole.thing.

And, like you love to skip some parts of my replies, I'm quiting this. You're a good writer, you might be cool and all, but... you just won't stop this pointless whole thing.

- Nozomi

Hyourinmaru
20th January 2007, 12:54 AM
It was like "Who are you?" and "I don't remember you"

That really reminds me of this ShinjixHikari fancomic I read a while back o.o.

Anyway, this episode was good. The animation was good, the way the battle ended was unexpected, Hyouta seemed better than last episode (maybe because he managed to win this episode =o) and the build up for the next episode was good.

The only thing that managed to annoy me during the episode was my mom asking whether Hyouta was male or female halfway through the episode. Yeah.

Weav-vile
20th January 2007, 12:55 AM
He doesn't have to like AG instead of DP, it's not the end of the world.


It's she. You know, previously my brother owned this account, but since he passed away... Well, I'm here. I just gotta change this username now, I don't like it. And I use "-Nozomi" in the end to remark I'm a girl. :- )


D/P has delivered us plot twists, but he/she is saying we never saw stuff like this before in AG.

I'm not! :S
Are you crazy, Cyber? Hell, I'm just saying that I think these series are different, being D/P better. What's so wrong with that? I'm not forcing anyone to believe in what I do, I'm just explaining myself, ok?
Don't get me wrong.

EDIT: Yeah, Kojiro's post woke me up. Let me correct myself: It's better than AG 'till now. It can really get worse and boring too, I gotta wait to compare them for realZ, y'know... But, at the moment, I do prefer D/P over AG.

- Nozomi

Korobooshi Kojiro
20th January 2007, 12:56 AM
Eh, I consider DP and AG at about the same level at the moment (which is good in my opinion), but DP could either go up or down, but looks as if it may go up if this trend of good episodes continue.
Eh...Cyber?

Your becoming like the Kanto Elitist...except the Hoenn version. o.0

RageKaiser
20th January 2007, 12:59 AM
I could've swarn that after Satoshi chose Naetoru, Pikachu, and Aipom that Hikari said "Mukkubird got shafted!"

And apparently, Shinji gave away Azumarill to that kid.

CyberCubed
20th January 2007, 1:11 AM
Eh...Cyber?

Your becoming like the Kanto Elitist...except the Hoenn version. o.0

I disagree, and elitist would be pretending all the new stuff sucks compared to the old.

The D/P series is great, and I've always said the only episode I hated was the one where Ash caught Naetle, because it was such a boring capture episode. But unlike other people, just because I like D/P doesn't mean I'm going to forget all the great stuff AG did as well.

D/P is very well done, they just have to be careful with Shinji and figure out what the hell they're doing with Team Galaxy. The latter doesn't exactly fill me with confidence since we're up to D/P 19 now...

Ashy Boy
20th January 2007, 1:18 AM
What sort of trash talk did Shinji give to Ash this time? BTW, what are Team Rocket scheming?

CyberCubed
20th January 2007, 1:20 AM
What sort of trash talk did Shinji give to Ash this time? BTW, what are Team Rocket scheming?

Is this all you came in here to ask about?

Shinji thought Ash was pathetic when he lost, are you doing to think Shinji is the devil now?

Korobooshi Kojiro
20th January 2007, 1:23 AM
Shinji is now a sweetheart silly!

Also.. Team Rocket were scheming to revive Ancient Pokemon and take over Shinou for da boss.

Magical Needle Smash
20th January 2007, 2:17 AM
What sort of trash talk did Shinji give to Ash this time?

After Satoshi's "Leave after you watch my battle!" Shinji chuckled and replied with a "You want me to watch you lose?"

At the Pokemon Center, while Satoshi was wondering how he and his pokemon should tackle Hyouta, Shinji butted in with a "You may be able to win if you copy me."

Gravy
20th January 2007, 2:34 AM
...so what's with Iwane giving Zugaidos those beady lil' pupils? I mean, Zugaidos looked more on-model than it did in Shimura's episode, yet for some bizzare reason he felt it's eyes needed to be completely different. It wasn't a bad change or anything, but it was certainly strange. But anyways...

It was a decent episode, and I found the battles to be fast paced and enjoyable, as they should be. I also liked the speil between the characters before the match, particulary Hikari's outburst of rage, and her concern for Shinji's Hikozaru and Elekid.

From the way things were going, it seemed like Ash was more concerned with putting Shinji in his place, so he could give him a hearty 'Ha! I told you so!', rather than placing his full concentration on the battle. That's probably why the match ended the way it did. Although I think it's important to point out that Onix looked about ready to keel over after being assualted via the debris caused by Pikachu's Thunderbolt, so I'd think it would be safe to say that the Screech used to KO Ash's final entry was a last ditch effort that ended up succeeding.
I also noticed that Ash avoided going for Zugaidos' legs in a similar fashion to Shinji, and instead kept landing hits on it's head. And considering Shinji's comment to Ash in the pokémon center, it seems to further imply that Ash had Shinji on the brain during his match.

Korobooshi Kojiro
20th January 2007, 2:37 AM
Yeah, and it definately seems Zugaidosu is NOT succeptible to attacks on it's head, due to it ramming stuff alot.

I wonder if the new strategy to take down Rampard will be to go for the legs? Perhaps Mukkubird could weave in and out of the dino Pokemon's legs, and then slowly wear at it?

raticatelover
20th January 2007, 2:43 AM
Is this all you came in here to ask about?

Shinji thought Ash was pathetic when he lost, are you doing to think Shinji is the devil now?

Well this is the discussion for the episode, so its reasonable to ask that. It's completely on topic.

Anyways I think that the battle was well thought out, and that Ash had made poor choices in the beginning of taking out Aipom against Hyouta's strongest pokemon but all in all it seemed pretty cool.

Flamez
20th January 2007, 2:51 AM
Saw the episode, I liked it alot. Seeing my favorite pokemon lose (pikachu) is not really a good thing but I dont mind it. It put up a great fight against both Zugaidos and Onix. The animation, music and the battle as a whole (including naetoru vs. zugaidos) was very good. Loved the part where Pikachu uses quick attack while Zugaidos uses flamethrower and pikachu jumps up and continues its quick attack to get close to Zugaidos and then Iron tails it right in the head. I like how Iron tail was animated at that part.

I agree Gravy, I was also thinking about that while watching the battle.

I know this doesn't belong here but I agree with the people who think that Ash's rematch will be a double battle and he'll use Pikachu and Mukubird.

pikachu146
20th January 2007, 2:53 AM
I can't believe Ash didn't win! Shinji won,but Ash didn't. Ash has already lost to Shinji several times, now proving he isn't as good as Shinji.

Naetoru defeated that Zugaidosu,which is great.But Pikachu lost against an Onix? It had already beaten won at the Pewter gym,now Pikachu is much more skilled,how can he lose?
After Naetoru and Pikachu got wiped out by Onix,why didn't Ash continue?Ash still has an Aipom left,that can finish it off with Focus Punch!

Ash is not smart enough,he should use Pikachu to weaken Zugaidosu,and kill it with Naetoru,then Naetoru can beat Onix and Aipom can kill Geodude. Hope he can win in his 1st rematch,and won't have to rematch 2 times(when fighting Brandon).

zeno48
20th January 2007, 3:02 AM
Oh.My.God.

Hey now, Zeno. What's wrong with losting a battle, even though you've just won a GREAT and difficult one?

Can't an Elite 4 member/leader lost a battle? Can't the best trainer in this funky world lost a battle? Can't Ash lost? Goshhh, things happen!

I.don't.get.you.people.who.always.complain.about.n onsense.things.

Really don't.

- Nozomi

You want me to tell you what is wrong! Well here I go. I wanted ash to win because I always expect it from a trainer of class that he is. When I watch a battle I tend for that person to give everything he has. Ash to me showed a poor display off battle skills and had to switch 3 pokemon to take down hyoutas dino pokemon. He was doing well with pikachu but he really messed up that's what the gym leader took advantage off and managed to stay calm and focus during the whole battle. Some cualities and aspects that ash by now should already have, but he does the same thing and does not realize his mistakes and manages to get caught in his own web, but now we are in shinou.
His accomplishments and triumphs led him there and I expected better from him. But no he loses and shinji for some reason managed to pull off a win. Okay so how does this happen. I mean all that hes gone through and all that he has learned really makes you think of this as pure rubbish. But really there is no excuse for this and now that I have seen ash lose I really have some doubts for him. But as someone said above that regice battle was a little cheap but to see this happen I mean come on.
Well overall the battle was okay and shinjixhikari seems to be my favorite paring. Does anyone know what shinji said to hikari by the way? Hikari's face priceless.

Anonymous Trainer
20th January 2007, 3:08 AM
Before you literally decide to diss Satoshi, think about it, yeah I know it's disappointing and downright embarassing that Ash is doing so badly in Shinou so far, but since he's having a rough start now he may later on just start the ownage many fans are so anticipated to see. We can't just keep seeing him win so often, it would be boring, the same exact thing is happening to Shinji right now. Everyone is starting to get tired of him winning all the time.

Flamez
20th January 2007, 3:14 AM
I can't believe Ash didn't win! Shinji won,but Ash didn't. Ash has already lost to Shinji several times, now proving he isn't as good as Shinji.

Naetoru defeated that Zugaidosu,which is great.But Pikachu lost against an Onix? It had already beaten won at the Pewter gym,now Pikachu is much more skilled,how can he lose?
After Naetoru and Pikachu got wiped out by Onix,why didn't Ash continue?Ash still has an Aipom left,that can finish it off with Focus Punch!


What the Hell are you talking about? Did you even see this episode, hell did you even bother to read any of the previous posts.

First of all Aipom was used first and it lost to Zugaidos, therefore Ash couldn't use him after Pikachu lost. Pikachu lost to Onix because it battled Zugaidos first and was weakened quite a bit and then it battled Onix. It put up a great fight against both of them. Its pretty stupid to assume that Pikachu will beat any Onix because it beat one at the pewter gym about 450 episodes ago and that was also due to the sprinklers turning on.

Ash has not lost to Shinji SEVERAL TIMES. They have battled twice and one was a draw while the second battle Shinji won (hikozaru vs. Naetoru). Ash had to lose that match not just because of disadvantage but because it was naetoru's first battle. Besides Hikozaru lost to Ash's aipom the first time they battled, the writer's weren't going to have Hikozaru lose twice in a row to Ash. If you saw that match you would've seen that Shinji was not pleased with his win cuz Ash put up a great fight and Shinji thought it would've ended sooner.

Sorry if Im sounding rude but you have to see the episode before making quick judgements.

zeno48
20th January 2007, 3:16 AM
I feel sorry for shinji. He had to sit through that poor excuse of a battle only to waste his time. To bad pikachu got him to sit back down. If I was him I would have left right away. The way I saw it made me feel like, god is this kid for real!

The Great Butler
20th January 2007, 3:24 AM
Heh.....not only is Shinji a creep, now he's a creep who dumps his unwanted Pokémon on unwitting targets. This is the kind of stuff that makes me happy the Ash/Shinji rivalry is getting so much attention---he's easily triple the rival Gary ever was, and the poor excuses for "rivals" at the end of Hoenn like Morrison didn't even come close.

I must say I was surprised by two things---first, when I saw the pics I thought Zugaidos would trample Ash on its own. Then I was surprised that my prediction of Zugaidos evolving into Rampard was wrong.

Next week's got me hopeful. Looks like it's going to be at least semi-TR based, and the "Big Charge of Ancient Pokémon" seems to be coming from some sort of botched TR scheme (see: the weird machine that releases Aerodactyl in the preview) I guess Hyota's gonna be in there saving the day, since he gets Rampard in the episode, even though you know Ash is always the one to get in the last strike.

One other thing: I LOVE how the Kurogane Gym is getting so much attention. What's it got, at least four episodes between those aired and slated to air? ("Hyota vs. Shinji," "Zugaidos vs. Pikachu," "Big Charge of Ancient Pokémon," "Return Battle! Vs. Rampard!!") I sure hope they continue developing the cities, gyms and Gym Leaders like this, beyond the old "Ash arrives in town, meets Gym Leader, blasts off TR, wins badge" formula.

Flamez
20th January 2007, 3:26 AM
I feel sorry for shinji. He had to sit through that poor excuse of a battle only to waste his time. To bad pikachu got him to sit back down. If I was him I would have left right away. The way I saw it made me feel like, god is this kid for real!
Umm, why did you sit through the battle if it was so bad? You didn't have put yourself through the agonizing pain of watching a battle like that. It seems like your one of the people who watches the battles just to complain.

squirtleboy12
20th January 2007, 3:27 AM
i couldnt belive the lost!it was ridiculos..i knew aipom could have done better and naetoru..pikachu try its best but it got beaten by onyx

zeno48
20th January 2007, 3:35 AM
Umm, why did you sit through the battle if it was so bad? You didn't have put yourself through the agonizing pain of watching a battle like that. It seems like your one of the people who watches the battles just to complain.

I know that it's just that I was expecting more from this battle. But overall it was an okay episode. The reason I watched it was for shinji and hyouta. One to see shinjis expression during the match. Which by the way really entertained me and to watch this cool gym leader. Again I was expecting more but overall a great episode.

S.Suikun
20th January 2007, 3:50 AM
Yeah, and it definately seems Zugaidosu is NOT succeptible to attacks on it's head, due to it ramming stuff alot.
Does that mean it's severely brain damaged like Mukubird?

But Pikachu lost against an Onix? It had already beaten won at the Pewter gym,now Pikachu is much more skilled,how can he lose?
Because Hyouta isn't stupid enough to put PLOT DEVICE SPRINKLERS in his gym.

One other thing: I LOVE how the Kurogane Gym is getting so much attention. What's it got, at least four episodes between those aired and slated to air? ("Hyota vs. Shinji," "Zugaidos vs. Pikachu," "Big Charge of Ancient Pokémon," "Return Battle! Vs. Rampard!!") I sure hope they continue developing the cities, gyms and Gym Leaders like this, beyond the old "Ash arrives in town, meets Gym Leader, blasts off TR, wins badge" formula.
As much as I'd like it to happen, it might be difficult to give each of the following gym cities as much attention if Ash isn't slated to lose, or if Shinji isn't battling also. (and I don't want Shinji's matches to be a recurring theme, as it'd be redundant and make Ash look like a stalker ala Scott) I suppose they could do things like involving Natane in Hakutai Mansion, though.

i couldnt belive the lost!it was ridiculos..i knew aipom could have done better and naetoru..pikachu try its best but it got beaten by onyx
"Onyx"...you taking lessons from 4Kids?

CyberCubed
20th January 2007, 3:53 AM
The other Gyms probably won't get as much attention since Ash is going to beat a good chunk of them on his first try. Since Shinji probably won't be at all of them either, most of the other Gyms will get around 2 eps like they have since mid-Johto.

Mythic Mist
20th January 2007, 4:04 AM
Great episode. I loved how Naetoru ducked under the flamethrower to avoid it the first time. Nice animation, and I also loved how Team Rocket has a somewhat decent plan this time That's their third good plan since Kotobuki, they're on a roll. :D

Umi Mizuno
20th January 2007, 4:18 AM
Wow, Shinji actually watching Ash's battle even though Shinji says that he's a weakling. :P

The episode is pretty good, I just don't like the overuse of Zugaidos. Hyouta's gym convinces me that all other gyms and fillers will have pure fanservice.

Hikari trying to kill Shinji was rofl, he ****** her off twice, but the fact that Shinji never acknowledged her existance was funnier.

Not sure if anyone noticed, but wtf happend to Chansey's voice? It sounds deeper.

Meh, the animation in D/P isn't getting any better. I'd just wish they'd quit using the same ones over and higher the good old ones. :/

-DP 16 should have it's title changed to "Takeshi teaches Hikari!" most of the episode was pretty much Brock and Hikari.

Pokemon Fan
20th January 2007, 4:40 AM
Did satoshi really do well in indigo plateau, win orange league, do well in the johto league and whirl cup, save the world a couple of times and win the hoenn league and battle frontier challenge? Did he really beat regice. Guess I must have mistaken him for someone else.
Well this is the Satoshi whose Pikachu rocked the whole gym with a burst of lightning and blew apart a arena field to send huge boulders crashing into its opponent.

And I concur with others that the defeat of Regice was poorly done. If nothing else at least you can comfort yourself knowing that Pikachu's attacks were all effective on Regice's type unlike against Onix, and that Pikachu faught Regice fresh rather than tired.


The episode is pretty good, I just don't like the overuse of Zugaidos. Hyouta's gym convinces me that all other gyms and fillers will have pure fanservice.
What do you mean fanservice, apparently you don't mean it in the normal sense? And how is Zugaidos overused? Its Hyouta's strongest pokemon and his signature pokemon, and it got to battle in both episodes just like Onix. Hardly enough to be called overused.


Meh, the animation in D/P isn't getting any better. I'd just wish they'd quit using the same ones over and higher the good old ones. :/
This is about as good as the animation in the main series gets, I don't get how you didn't notice that.

Magical Needle Smash
20th January 2007, 6:07 AM
For those wondering about Aipom going first: While thinking about how to deal with Zugaidosu's speed and Headbutts, Satoshi chose Aipom hoping to use its movements to confuse the enemy.

Considering it knows Double Team and all, I don't think it was necessarily a bad idea.

S.Suikun
20th January 2007, 6:10 AM
Meh, the animation in D/P isn't getting any better. I'd just wish they'd quit using the same ones over and higher the good old ones. :/
Seriously? Especially when compared to last week's and next week's episode (seriously, just compare the detail, fluidness, proportions, and CG), the animation in this was superb. Really, when talking about the digital animation age of Pocket Monsters, this is about as good as it gets. (Okay, I suppose you could make a case for the episodes Tokuda did in Hoenn, but he's long gone now, sadly.)

-DP 16 should have it's title changed to "Takeshi teaches Hikari!" most of the episode was pretty much Brock and Hikari.
I didn't really notice the lecture stuff occur much more than how Brock usually comments during a gym or contest.

CyberCubed
20th January 2007, 6:13 AM
Eh, Brock isn't any different than he was in AG.

He's still dead weight. Its amazing that Brock gets really awesome episodes from time to time (the one where Bonsly evolved, the Pewter Gym ep in Battle Frontier, his Contest episode), but then after his spotlight eps he goes back to the same boring rut he's been in for years.

The writers know how to make Brock really great when they try, but then they continue to ignore him in every episode that doesn't focus on him.

Umi Mizuno
20th January 2007, 6:43 AM
What do you mean fanservice, apparently you don't mean it in the normal sense? And how is Zugaidos overused? Its Hyouta's strongest pokemon and his signature pokemon, and it got to battle in both episodes just like Onix. Hardly enough to be called overused.
If you watch the episode closely, you'll notice that there is A LOT of fanservice. And yes, I mean it in normal sense. Mostly for fangirls though, unless you count all the times where Hikari doesn't look like she's wearing panties and her bare lower body is sitting on the bench.

Get this, I know it's his signature pokemon, but don't usually gym leaders save their signature pokemon for last? Hyouta should have more than a Geodude, an Onix, and a Zugaidos. Though the battle was good, I'll give it that. :O

This is about as good as the animation in the main series gets, I don't get how you didn't notice that.
I realize that, I'm saying that though this is the best there is, it's pretty crappy compared with AG wouldn't you agree?

Seriously? Especially when compared to last week's and next week's episode (seriously, just compare the detail, fluidness, proportions, and CG), the animation in this was superb. Really, when talking about the digital animation age of Pocket Monsters, this is about as good as it gets. (Okay, I suppose you could make a case for the episodes Tokuda did in Hoenn, but he's long gone now, sadly.)
The animation in this episode was good, but guess what animator is up next? The one that did the DP 4. Eeew.

I didn't really notice the lecture stuff occur much more than how Brock usually comments during a gym or contest.
Brock was lecturing Hikari the entire time, since gym battles are different than contests.

S.Suikun
20th January 2007, 6:57 AM
Get this, I know it's his signature pokemon, but don't usually gym leaders save their signature pokemon for last?
Well, Winona used Altaria first. Besides, I suppose it makes things a little less redundant from the previous episode by switching up the order (though it's still redundant, since the Pokemon are the same). And my sanity was spared yet another Geodude appearance (though it will no doubt appear in the rematch).

I realize that, I'm saying that though this is the best there is, it's pretty crappy compared with AG wouldn't you agree?
Eh...not really. AG had its share of crappily-animated episodes (Groudon vs. Kyogre Part 2 = Most hideous episode in Pocket Monsters history), and it's not like Iwane's quality has really decreased. On the whole between all the animation teams, however, I would agree that the animation quality has become less consistant ever since the first half of AG or so.

The animation in this episode was good, but guess what animator is up next? The one that did the DP 4. Eeew.
Yeah, EWW. Kind of a shame, as the next episode looks to be pretty good.

Umi Mizuno
20th January 2007, 7:00 AM
Well, Winona used Altaria first. Besides, I suppose it makes things a little less redundant from the previous episode by switching up the order (though it's still redundant, since the Pokemon are the same). And my sanity was spared yet another Geodude appearance (though it will no doubt appear in the rematch).
Well there's 2 more episodes at Hyouta's gym, we'll probably see more of his Pokemon.

Eh...not really. AG had its share of crappily-animated episodes (Groudon vs. Kyogre Part 2 = Most hideous episode in Pocket Monsters history). On the whole between all the animation teams, however, I would agree that the animation quality has become less consistant ever since the first half of AG or so.
But you have to admit, animation in DP 1 > AG 1

Yeah, EWW. Kind of a shame, as the next episode looks to be pretty good.
Exactly, why do the crappy animators come to animate the episodes so often?

Korobooshi Kojiro
20th January 2007, 3:16 PM
Lol, I'm not really an Animation *****, I'll be happy as long as it's not as bad and errata filled as the Kanto 4 episode....

CyberCubed
20th January 2007, 3:25 PM
We do get the lesser animation teams more frequently now, we have since BF, and its a shame.

Back in Hoenn the episodes looked really nice, I never even recall being an animation ***** until "Judgement Day" came out which looked horrid. From there onward I studied the animation in each episode.

SOS! Its Not Healthy..
20th January 2007, 5:12 PM
I saw the pictures first then the actual episode itself, and it did hit me until I get to about page 7 or 8 on the pictures when I saw that, yep Ash ain't winning, and the poor Pokemon choice. BUt actually, the episode was not bad at all, although I laughed of how Hikari got mad over Shinji. I find it funny how she doesn't like him much like Ash, but more of a comical sense.

Another laughter one was when Mukkubird did not get picked to battle, poor bird.

And it was nice, Team Rocket with the reseacher which gives a taste with the next episode is going to be.

The battle itself, it was pretty good. I was upset when I saw the pictures how it turned out, but as I seen the episode myself, I could see why Ash lost. And Hyouta for one thing is not an idiot, because in his part, I would bet he would not want to lose twice in the row, which it was nice in the side of him to use Zugaidosu first, his strongest one. The little critter beat Aipom badly, and nearly took down PIkachu, but finally Naetoru beat it.

And I wasn't too surprised for Pikachu losing to an Onix, and wow, that got to hurt with the ears and the hits it took from the final blow. Ouch, and Shinji looks like he called him useless or something at the end. Speaking of that, for one thing, I hope Ash steps his game up and stop worrying about Shinji's performance and attitude. I think its having a lot to do with his performace of why he lost.

Somorio
20th January 2007, 7:45 PM
Exactly, why do the crappy animators come to animate the episodes so often?

well think of it this way when you see an episode with great animation it makes it even more of an outstanding special episode.

you gotta have the bad with the good. get it.

ps. wow its been a long time since i posted here;munchlax;

Geodude
21st January 2007, 5:37 AM
Why are you guys even talking about bad animation when this episode didn't have any? Can we please have an episode discussion thread that actually discusses the episode instead of going into this constant boring, off-topic crap about animation debates and AG vs DP debates?

Scorpi13
21st January 2007, 8:52 AM
Hey wut website do you go to to watch the episodes

BattleFranky~40
21st January 2007, 9:15 AM
Hey wut website do you go to to watch the episodes

None of them, since it's illegal.

Celebitwo
21st January 2007, 10:00 PM
-Can't really blame Shinji for giving away Azumarill...the bunny did NOT do well last episode.

Finally spotted the part of the episode where that happend. To be honest, until now even though I wasnt sure if it was true or not I expected it to be. I was sure Shinji would let it go after its pathetic lost to Geodude.

Seeing as it is true shouldn't that be changed on his bio?

Scorpi13
21st January 2007, 11:14 PM
what makes me mad is that ash can almost get to the elite four and everybodt thinks he's so good and then he looses to the 1st gym leader

and why everytime we see his pikachu in a battle it looses

Korobooshi Kojiro
21st January 2007, 11:16 PM
It just beat a freaking Regice!

Scorpi13
21st January 2007, 11:28 PM
i no but wen we see it battling the elekid or the elekible or a meowth

but if pikachu new volt tackle it could beat that meowth

tee tee
22nd January 2007, 3:42 AM
i felt bad for aipom because it didnt affect zugaidsu but that zugaidsu is pretty strong because it is really fast and has really good attack power and good moves no wonder pikachu couldnt stand up to onix after being headbutted so much but it wasnt that bad it was screech that got pikachu. and naetle did really well taking the flamethrower directly and still kept going and beat that zugaidsu!

BattleFranky~40
22nd January 2007, 4:49 AM
what makes me mad is that ash can almost get to the elite four and everybodt thinks he's so good and then he looses to the 1st gym leader

and why everytime we see his pikachu in a battle it looses

Yeah, let's have Ash win EVERY SINGLE DAMN BATTLE! That'll make the anime fun to watch!

Bliksem
22nd January 2007, 7:56 AM
Hyouta may be the first Gym Leader of Sinnoh, but that doesn't mean that he's inexperienced. Clearly Gym Leaders have the choice of either going easy on their opponent or going all out, as they're a test of a trainer's skills. Obviously, despite Hyouta being the first gym leader, he's clearly better than Kanto Brock or Hoenn Roxanne, and probably better than several of Kanto, Johto and Hoenn's latter Gym Leaders as well. There's no evidence to support that there should be a great drop in power from the Pyramid King to Hyouta, despite the latter using unevolved Pokemon. After all, Ash *isn't* the best trainer in the world, and there's no reason to believe that others couldn't or can't do what he's done better or faster.

Now that I've finally gotten to see the episode in action (and what an episode it was), I have to say that Zugaidos is easily one of my favorite Pokemon. I am *surprised*, even now, that the animators made it so incredibly fast. It makes me wish the actual one was that decent. But of course, its evolved form, Rampard, will probably be a lot slower, if much more powerful.

BattleFranky~40
22nd January 2007, 7:58 AM
There's no evidence to support that there should be a great drop in power from the Pyramid King to Hyouta, despite the latter using unevolved Pokemon.

One uses legendary pokemon, one uses Geodude. One is considered to be one of the strongest trainers ever, one is the first freaking gym leader.

Bliksem
22nd January 2007, 8:44 AM
And the one with Legendary Pokemon was defeated by a trainer with a Squirtle, a Bulbasaur and a Pikachu.

BattleFranky~40
22nd January 2007, 8:52 AM
And the one with Legendary Pokemon was defeated by a trainer with a Squirtle, a Bulbasaur and a Pikachu.

And that would be the writers fault for sucking so much.

Geodude
22nd January 2007, 1:22 PM
I'm getting pretty tired of reading posts from these people who think that because Pikachu beat Regice, it'll never lose another battle again as long as it lives.
Yeah, let's have Ash win EVERY SINGLE DAMN BATTLE! That'll make the anime fun to watch!How true. Then people would be complaining about how he wins all the time. -_-

Back on topic please...

Celebitwo
22nd January 2007, 7:09 PM
And the one with Legendary Pokemon was defeated by a trainer with a Squirtle, a Bulbasaur and a Pikachu.

Squirtle, Bulbasaur, and Pikachu have been trained a lot and are probably at a high level(but not that high). Pokemon dont have to be fully evolved or legendaries to be powerful. The main reason Pikachu lost was because it was tired out and electric attacks dont work against Onix(but not the only reason). Ash really shouldn't have expected to win when he was fighting a rock gym with part ground pokemon using a normal type and an electric type.

Just because their levels are low in the games doesnt mean they are low in the anime

MechaBulba
22nd January 2007, 7:50 PM
Cool episode the figth was excellent and a cool win for Onix. Scream looks sweet.

One thing i find annoying however is people moaning "omg he lost to the 1rst gym" so what he has to loss to one of the gyms. Unlike what a lot of people think the anime is not the games. There4 there are no "first" gyms in the anime. Infact all the gyms are equal in strength it just depends on where you start. At least thats how i view it. I mean lets say in Kanto if you start your pokemon journey in Lavindar town your first gym would be Saffron rather than traveling all the way to pewter.

Shikamaru Nara
23rd January 2007, 2:18 AM
This is going to get stupid though, because we all know Satoshi will beat Rampurado.

Korobooshi Kojiro
23rd January 2007, 2:22 AM
Um..yeah, so? What's wrong with that?

BattleFranky~40
23rd January 2007, 2:24 AM
This is going to get stupid though, because we all know Satoshi will beat Rampurado.

Oh wow, really? I thought Ash would just keep losing to the first gym leader for the entire series!

Korobooshi Kojiro
23rd January 2007, 2:29 AM
It's amazing.

Can Ash win without complaining, or lose without complaining?

tipnottippy
23rd January 2007, 2:24 PM
Best part of the episode:
Hikari: Why don't you just watch his battle... W-what?
Shinji: Who are you.
Hikari: *volcanic eruption* How rude! I'm Hikari, HIKARI! We've met before!
Shinji: Don't remember.
Hikari: *DEMON HIKARI RAGE* WHY YOU---!1!1!!!1!

Shinji doesn't recognize Hikari's existence because Hikari doesn't matter to him. I wonder why a certain portion of the fandom enjoys basking in its own ridiculous refusal to recognize this fact? Oh, right, because totally ignoring a person's existence is a sure sign of OMG TRUE LUV. [/sarcasm]

As for the rest of the episode, that was The. Coolest. Screech. EVAR. Thank goodness I've gotten used to the anime's way of making non-damage attacks do damage, so I won't complain about that. Zugaidosu was just--what can I say, I *LOVED* watching it in this ep. The angles it kept being shown in were really cool. And Double Headbutt vs. Volt Tackle? Coolness beyond coolness, especially when they were charging at each other.

Also loved how Pikachu suddenly regained a bit of the personality it lost several seasons back--using Thunder to basically do what Ash had been doing with Shinji the whole time: "GET YER *** BACK HERE AND WATCH THE BATTLE DEMMIT!" And speaking of personality, Mukubird was WIN. I love that crazy thing. It should be a test subject for Pokemon depression meds. XD

The only issue I had with the battles was Naetoru being taken out so quickly when it lasted for-freaking-ever against Shinji's Hikozaru (getting repeatedly hit by fire attacks again and again). Of course, one could reason that Zugaidosu's Flamethrower was stronger than Hikozaru's fire attacks since Zugaidosu is more experienced and technically Flame Wheel isn't as strong as Flamethrower anyway (and obviously anime doesn't count STAB).

Overall, a very nice ep to watch. The only parts that bored me were the parts with TR touring the fossil research facility and fantasizing, though I guess it couldn't be helped as it was setup for the next episode.

PANCAKE
23rd January 2007, 3:19 PM
Best part of the episode:
Hikari: Why don't you just watch his battle... W-what?
Shinji: Who are you.
Hikari: *volcanic eruption* How rude! I'm Hikari, HIKARI! We've met before!
Shinji: Don't remember.
Hikari: *DEMON HIKARI RAGE* WHY YOU---!1!1!!!1!

That's cake. I like how the guy is a self absorbed individual. Must explain why he didn't notice Mukkubird either at the Pokemon Center. I can smell this being a running gag for the rest of D/P between him and Hikari.

wobbanut
23rd January 2007, 7:41 PM
Anyone besides me notice that this is the first time Ash has lost at a first gym since Brock? That's a four-time winning streak of Cissy (OI), Faulkner (Johto), Roxanne (Hoenn), and Noland (BF).

RomanMack
26th January 2007, 9:03 AM
Hahahaha.

Anyone know what Hikari was yelling about when she was about to fight Shinji, but Brock held her back?

Voltrex
13th March 2007, 2:08 AM
Again they make ash look so mediocore. This kind of thing gets on my nerves. Sure, him winning all the time would also be dull. But he shouldnt be getting beat this many times this early in the season...

Almighty Zard
13th March 2007, 4:13 AM
^His loss did seem somewhat forced by the writers, it could have been a tad bit less extreme than it was if he had at least Ko'ed geodude too before Onix took down pikachu, not to mention it was a little unfair that Ash had to deal with double headbutt that Zugadosu "convieniantly" learned during the match.

WaterDragon trainer
29th June 2007, 2:03 AM
This episode was pretty good. I found it to be funny when Dawn got angry when Paul didn’t know who she was. It was great to see an Omanyte again. Cranidos was pretty good. I was amazed at how Pikachu used Thunder to keep Paul watching the battle. It was cool to see a Head Smash. The battle between Pikachu and Onix was pretty good.

Korobooshi Kojiro
29th June 2007, 2:06 AM
Man, PUSA did excellent with the music, which the Japanese producers scored this episode rather well...especially the end.

Momogirl
29th June 2007, 2:07 AM
I liked the fight, I just wish Ash coulda won ): Pikachu was pretty bad-a in it though. I think it's mostly because ash's other pokemon are well..new. so it pretty much depends on how much his pokemon are able to take. I hope ash comes up with a good strategy to beat him. That cranidos is sorta overpowered D:

oh well. Paul is still a meanie XD

G4Pokefan
29th June 2007, 2:12 AM
Tight episode! I really liked how they put the music from the Lucario movie in the anime towards the end, which happens 2 B my favorite music.

In a way, I'm kinda glad Ash lost this one. To me, he was way to confident and too eager to show Paul up.

I'll admit, I still don't like the voices or the bright coloring of the anime, I'm liking the serious battles, the battle animations and the complete true and real explanations of Pokemon abilities, attacks, and type match-ups!

Other than that, pretty damn ok season so far!

chosen_one386
29th June 2007, 2:23 AM
Okay, this episode got 10/10 from me automatically for one thing: 8th movie music at the end. But, it would have got 10/10 anyone because of the awesome battle.

Blaziryu
29th June 2007, 2:25 AM
I just finish watching this episode on CN. The previous episode was better than this one (b/c of Shinji of course). However, the animation of this episode was better than the previous one. Throughout the entire battle I was rooting for Roark because Ash was just wack. The writers make Ash get away with alot of sh*t. For instance, Crandios being defeated by Turtwig after it hit with Zen Headbutt & a Flamethrower. Ash's terrible battle made Shinji lose his precious time on training his Pokémon. Shinji had every right to call Ash "pathetic" because he is.

Hikarii
29th June 2007, 2:36 AM
Ah. Luckies. I still have to wait about three hours. XD

Momogirl
29th June 2007, 3:06 AM
you dont have to be an uber awesome pokemon battler to be a way better person than paul though D|

dman_dustin
29th June 2007, 9:45 AM
Again they make ash look so mediocore. This kind of thing gets on my nerves. Sure, him winning all the time would also be dull. But he shouldnt be getting beat this many times this early in the season...
Although I believe Ash lost unfairly, Ash didn't do bad, although onix pulling screech out at the last moment was shocking

Ashy Boy
29th June 2007, 12:47 PM
What did Paul say throughout the entire episode?

Brain_Damaged Rob
29th June 2007, 1:17 PM
Great episode. It seemed like a natural loss for Ash, Aipom and Turtwig don't really have a lot of experience and Pikachu was at an disadvantage.

The highlight was Staravias reaction to being overlooked for the battle.
He he. Poor depressed bird.

Wynaut?
29th June 2007, 1:47 PM
Trust Paul to rub in a 'pathetic' right at the end... :p

But yeah, sucks that Ash lost. :( Still a great battle though, but I kinda lost hope for Ash after he lost Turtwig to Onix. Paul's 'who are you?' to Dawn got a laugh so it wasn't all doom and gloom. Staravia's dramaqueen-ness is showing too. :p

9/10.

Soul Dew
29th June 2007, 2:23 PM
I really like this episode. I still wonder why it took so long for a character like Paul to appear.

Staravia's reaction reminded me of Muku Drama.

Ashy Boy
29th June 2007, 9:46 PM
Trust Paul to rub in a 'pathetic' right at the end.


Why did I get the feeling Paul was gonna say that?

Reign G
30th June 2007, 12:27 AM
When Pikachu released that huge electric attack, Paul's expression was like. "So, is this the legendary Pikachu that beat *Insert Pokemon it'd have no chance of defeating here*?"

One thing that bugged me is how they kept saying this was Ash's first Sinnoh battle. His first Sinnoh Gym Battle, yes, but they seem to have forgotten about the Nando episode.

Champion Jared 14
30th June 2007, 1:09 AM
What I wanna know is what Paul said at the end of the episode when Ash lost his battle, I couldn't hear because it was like he was mumbling, but my parents were making noise. I think it sounded something like "loser", or something like that.

R_N
30th June 2007, 6:04 AM
I liked Dawn's little rage moment. so funny. And did anyone else laugh during the moment when Ash was choosing his pokemon and it said how Star likes to battle andall that jazz about promises? I mean, the irony of it all! Star barely battles, and I think the whole thing about promises speaks for itself.
The battle was preatty good. Though I didn't care for Onix beating Pikachu wiht a freaking screech attack.
And paul was paul.
Did I here some Lucario movie music durign the Onix battle?
On a side-note, I will never understand why these gyms have htese huge amount of seats, yet no one from the town comes to watch the battles...

Medea
30th June 2007, 12:39 PM
-Yeah, the pissy moment Dawn had was pretty good. I just wanted her to punch Paul in the face.
-Glad to see Roark changed the things of the line-up a little bit (considering I didn't see the Japanese version). Usually with gym battles that Ash loses to, they always use the same line-up, no change (well exception Brandon). A big kudos to Roark for doing that after Paul's battle.
-Even though Paul is an ***, he does show some niceness every once and a while and somehow I ended up seeing a bit of that within the last two episodes.
-You just had to feel sorry for Staravia and you can't help but laugh at that "worry" comment that Dawn and Ash made.

jolteonjak
30th June 2007, 3:48 PM
Again, I didn't like this episode as much as I probably should have. Dawn's rage was interesting that's for sure.

Staravia's "emo-ment" was really a bit of a letdown. I don't think I care for its voice. I need to catch this episode in Japanese to see how Mukkubird sounds because it's probably much better.

Now for my biggest problem. I did not like the attitude Ash copped with Paul. Who is Ash to demand Paul stay and watch the battle? Paul is free to decide whether or not he wants to stick around. Would Ash have cared if Morrison, Tyson, or Harrison casually went to watch one of his battles? I doubt it. I didn't bring Gary up because it would be thrown back at me that he did watch Ash battle in "Battle for the Badge." The thing with that is that Ash had gotten into the gym to find Gary "white-d out," and then things went on from there.

I really hope future gym battles don't go in this direction.

Jonouchi
30th June 2007, 5:38 PM
Now for my biggest problem. I did not like the attitude Ash copped with Paul. Who is Ash to demand Paul stay and watch the battle? Paul is free to decide whether or not he wants to stick around.

It's probably because Ash wanted to prove to Paul that he can take down a gym leader himself.

I'll review this ep later *goes to watch it now*

CabbyFish
30th June 2007, 10:18 PM
I'm pretty sure I heard at least 7 or 8 pieces of original music (if not more).

Anyway, it was odd seeing Onix doing screech the way it did. It looked very different the last time it was used. (which I think was back in Kanto, not counting Larvitar)

Mythic Mist
2nd July 2007, 9:28 PM
*is amazed so many pieces of original music were left*

reehee
3rd July 2007, 3:41 AM
Same here. I was glad that they kept the music from the Japanese version...like the music heard when Aipom and Cranidos fought. (It sure sounded like the music that is played when you meet a wild Pokemon in the game Diamond/Pearl.)

Pearl's Perap
5th July 2007, 4:54 AM
Mediocre episode, in my eyes, it was basically the same as the episode before it, but less Paul and more Ash, which sucked in my opinions, I much preferred Paul's strategies over Ash's.

Only entertaining part in this episode for me was Team Rocket, posing as scientists, hence why I look forward to getting around to watch the next episode, judging by this episode, it should be a laugh.

Rather glad that Paul gave the Azumarill away rather than just releasing it, it was a more..noble..thing to do, in my eyes, he had just better not make a habit out of it.

5/10

Anyone 4 Buttons?
8th July 2007, 8:00 PM
As Pearl's Perap said, for a gym battle episode, it wasn't that exciting to be brutally honest, as I've come to expect from these episodes.

It was amazing to think that a move that is classed as 'defensive' in the games, can still be used in the anime as a strong counter 'attack'. It makes a nice change for Ash to lose every once in a while, but at the moment, during this series, he seems to be losing quite a bit...

GonbeTR
8th July 2007, 11:23 PM
I liked this episode in general. Dawn's anger scenes are funny. Staravia's situation is upsetting but because of anime effects (such as pruple background , purple stripes and music) it looks funny, in other words it is tragicomical.

The battle between Ash and Roark isn't as good as Paul's. I mean Paul's battle is more similar to competitive battles in the games. Paul's strategy and some good moves make that match better. I especially like "stealt rock" at previous episode because I used many times "spikes" at Battle Frontier , compettive battles , etc. However , Ash's match is not "bad" , it is just worse than Paul's.

Hitaka
10th July 2007, 4:11 PM
I liked this episode because Ash lost. It's just more entertaining when he loses instead of making up dumb strategies on the spot and miraculously winning due to some kind of fluke. I'm also amused that Pikachu got KO'd by a non-damaging attack, and that he sent Turtwig in even knowing Cranidos had Flamethrower. Hurrrrr. That's what he gets for not using Staravia and making it depressed.

squirtleking
13th July 2007, 2:04 PM
In Shinji's defence, he didn't exactly just release Azumarill and leave it to fend for itself - he gave it to another trainer; a young boy who will care for it and who was obviously pleased by Shinji's...generosity?

In a way, it was a bit decent of him?

reehee
14th July 2007, 6:37 AM
I thought Shinji traded his Azumarill for one of the boy's Pokemon... A Murkrow, perhaps?

npdargy312
18th July 2007, 9:50 AM
I really enjoyed watching this episode

Shiny Linoone
12th October 2007, 8:18 PM
Is it me, or recently when they show reruns of the episode, the first half is completely cut out?

Everytime I've seen the episode, Ash tells Paul to stay, Dawn has her pissy fit, and then it skips straight to the battle!

Rebeccag
30th October 2007, 10:52 PM
lol this was agood episode i liked daswn hissy fit at paul and starvivas emo moment i felt sorry for the poor bird

wobbanut
23rd August 2008, 9:33 PM
Ah yes, my favorite moment of the entire tenth season:

SATANIC DAWN!!!

(Must have been good if I kept it as my avatar for 18 months. Heehee.)

Anyway, it's too bad that Ash lost this battle when he was battling in front of Paul (he could have really used the opportunity to show him up), but at least it was a great battle. Staravia's reaction to not being chosen for battle was priceless too. It's funny that this is the first time Ash lost at the first gym of a region since Brock in season one.

Tadashi
8th November 2008, 10:55 AM
Heh, some tense Ash & Paul moments... ^_^

Pikachu losing to Onix... wow, there's some nostalgia for you. "Showdown in Pewter City", anyone? *sigh* Too bad there was no electro-whatever therapy in this one...

Really? Ash lost to Roark? Really? Did he or did he not get an offer to become a Frontier Brain? O_O *sighs* Pikachu should be able to do everything itself by now. It's been years! ;-;

Torpoleon
5th December 2008, 1:28 AM
Ash losing to Roark in front of Paul is BAD news. Also, Paul seemed astounded to Pikachu when it got up. They should have made Aipom have more screentime though.

Shadow-saur
5th December 2008, 1:32 AM
agreed about both pikachu and aipom. poor little monkey's never got much screen time. i suppose that's what it gets for being a contest-lover on ash's team.

i know he didn't outright win against brock, but did ash lose any of his other 1st gym battles?

HoennMaster
5th December 2008, 6:33 AM
What are you talking about. Aipom got plenty of screentime.

Igottapoo
21st January 2009, 11:20 AM
I like how Ash lost. That needs to happen more often. of course it just means more stalling but oh well.

(s.i.e)
11th March 2009, 12:00 PM
the first steps are allways the hardest it seems, ash didn't had much luck against the gym leader.

Littlemyuu
27th April 2009, 5:11 PM
I like the episode...it was funny that Ash got lost =p

S.Suikun
23rd May 2009, 6:52 PM
As great as Shinji's battle against Hyouta was, Satoshi's is even better. While we don't get any of the fancy game tactic crap we saw in the previous episode, not only is this a devastating entrance into Sinnoh for Satoshi, but we see his rivalry with Shinji only grow even more bitter. He finally gets the chance to prove his not "pathetic" as Shinji implies, only to make himself look like more of a fool than ever. But in spite of the loss, it's an excellent battle with some excellent music and animation. Unlike round 1 with Lila, he puts up a legitimate fight against Hyouta, who is given the upper edge here by rotating his order and releasing Zugaidos first.

That, of course, gives way to the semi-twist where an Onix takes the victory - a Pokemon we've seen time and time again who has far passed the point of being remarkable. Even the first half of the episode before the battle is worth it, not just for the classic instance of Muku.BIRD's dejection, but for some more unfolding Team Rocket events (again, wisely used here) and some further development of the Shinji rivalry (the Azumarill release being a highlight). Overall, I'm struggling to find a complaint about this episode, as it was different enough from Shinji's battle, and I just can't get enough of this rivalry in general. It may have ended in a loss, but it still remains one of Sinnoh's top gym battles, and is the Kurogane arc's overall highlight.

A

(For the record, I do give A+ grades, but they're reserved for only the incredibly remarkable.)

Ash-kid
4th August 2009, 6:33 PM
It's was the best gym battle is Sinnou, but Geodude was missing to me. however, Onix was very strong, and Aipom wasn't ready to a gym battle.

milenadrg
4th August 2009, 7:30 PM
Episode was interesting. Poor Staravia, it had great personallity. It was funny how Paul went back to watch Ash's battle when Ash's Pikachu used that Electric thing...
Ash loosing didn't impressed me much, his Pokemon(exept Pikachu) were new and didn't had much battling experience...

Lorde
14th January 2010, 6:08 PM
I liked this episode, only because of two reasons:

1) I knew what to expect since Paul had fought Roark so I knew Roark's strategy.
2) It was an intense fight even for a gym battle.

I was upset by two things:

1) Paul gave away his Azumarill to a little boy just because it lost. It's dumb, he could've trained it to become stronger.
2) Pikachu lost to Onix's Screech, which shouldn't do any damage.

KGB13
15th January 2010, 6:54 PM
I was upset by two things:

1) Paul gave away his Azumarill to a little boy just because it lost. It's dumb, he could've trained it to become stronger.
2) Pikachu lost to Onix's Screech, which shouldn't do any damage.

Those things upset me too. But I think it was the fact that Pikachu got knocked into a boulder as a result of screech that hurt it and made it faint.

I was also upset that Ash lost, but it was his own fault. I think he was too focused on trying to show off in front of Paul instead of focusing more on his battle and that's the reason why he lost. The little Dawn and Paul squabble was funny. Cool episode.

Willow's Tara
31st May 2010, 8:42 AM
A good match, shame Ash lost but it shows you can't just think you are going to win everything. Sure he defeated a Regice with Pikachu but Roark is what 20? 30? He's probably trained his Pokemon alot over the years especially since becoming a gym leader, so his Pokemon wouldn't be weak. If you could sweep Gyms then it would probably defeat the point of it.

Poor Staravia, it really wanted to battle but aleast it got to against Gardenia.
The match with Paul and Roark was interesting, lol at Dawn getting mad because Paul didn't know her name (Or didn't care).
I actually laughed out loud too when she was like "Excuse me!" and become ******.

wind21
21st June 2010, 3:10 AM
Wow, hard to compete with some of these reviews. I think I'll have to focus more on little things I liked rather than general schemes.

All right, so I'm skipping from dp 12 to dp 16 now. In that time, Starly evolved into Staravia for Ash (that episode I remember more for hypnotized Meowth), and Bonsly evolved into Sudowoodo for Brock (episode remembered for Jessie's exaggeration of a 100 yrs for how long Nuzleaf was lost and Dawn using her pokedex on Shiftry "meowth"). The gang reached the first gym city (the city's name that I can't spell) and got to see Paul win his first badge. Ash invites Paul to watch his gym battle against Roark the next day.

The idea of a guest sitting in on Ash's gym battle becomes a staple later on in Sinnoh, and I think it's a great idea. It certainly livens up the atmosphere.

Many times in these gym battles, it's not the most powerful pokemon from the gym leader I find interesting, it's the 2nd one. So for Roark, that turns out to be Onix. Pikachu's battle against Onix is the best one in this episode for me. However, first things first. The real highlight of this episode is Pikachu's thunderbolt to bring a disgusted, about to leave Paul back to his seat as Cranidos is decimating Ash's team (and right then was giving Pikachu a real thrashing). Trying to add anything I can to what's been said about this rivalry b/w Paul and Ash, the pokemon are something else that makes this work. Whether they've picked up on their trainer's attitudes (and this isn't necessarily always negative later on) or it's more personal with pokemon on the other boy's team, the pokemon are very intense in these confrontations b/w Ash and Paul. This gym battle isn't a battle b/w Ash and Paul, but Pikachu still is determined to defend Ash's skill as a trainer and lets it show in the thunderbolt. That scene has to be one of the top friendship scenes b/w Ash and Pikachu, and it's one to rewind a few times over.

Even after that show of defiance from Pikachu, though, Ash is unable to turn the gym battle around. He's forced to recall Pikachu and send in Turtwig, who takes a very damaging flamethrower before it's able to KO Cranidos. This leads to Turtwig being defeated quickly, and Ash left with a tired Pikachu against Onix (with Roark still having Geodude). Ash thinks up a strategy to slow Onix down and have Pikachu come in for a Quick Attack (probably to boost up an Iron Tail), but Onix launches a screech counter-attack that knocks Pikachu into a rock and defeats it. This is a great deal of detail, but the truth is you're probably going to remember all of this when you watch the episode. It really sticks with you, and that's a sign of how perfect the atmosphere is. For the 2nd time in an encounter with Paul, Ash connects with his Pokemon (he did it with Turtwig against Paul and here with Pikachu against Roark) and still ends up losing. As others have said in this thread, it really lays the foundation for the rivalry b/w Ash and Paul.

Special mention to Dawn, who you can see is trying to understand Ash's battling style and the way gym battles go. She's surprised at Ash's use of Volt Tackle (with Paul being a little more blunt in his criticism) and cheers Ash's defeat of Cranidos, only to be reminded by Brock that Roark is still firmly in control.

saar
8th July 2010, 3:27 PM
Another good gym battle that I really loved.

The best part was when Paul wanted to go, and then Pikachu exploded with rage and Paul stayed. At that moment, I thought Pikachu will beat Cranidos. Paul was impressed, but the writers again haven't given Pikachu's full power.:(

~Platinum~
25th July 2010, 2:59 AM
Oh, Staravia, you drama queen. Your :O face was the funniest part of the episode. However, Dawn's moment of rage at Paul was a close second.
The Volt Tackle vs Head Smash scene was awesome, definately one of the few non-comical moments of this episode that was better than the last episode. But Pikachu losing to an Onix was just the Pewter Gym all over again. *shakes head* And it was even more humiliating due to the fact that Paul was watching and Screech is not a damage inflicting move.
Oh, well. Even though Ash lost it was a very awesome loss and contributes to character development.

sealeo
29th August 2010, 12:42 AM
It was a very good gym battle. The best part was when dawn got really mad because paul didnt know her name. I also liked how paul sat as far away from brock and dawn as possible when watching the battle

Painkiller2001
7th November 2010, 12:44 AM
So, Ash loses his first gym battle in the sinnoh region. Oh, well. He can't expect to win them all easily now, can he? If Paul hadn't of been there maybe he would've not been so concentrated on trying to show Paul up.

It was funny when Staravia didn't get picked for the battle. A simply priceless scene.

Ya know, if Starly wasn't brain-damaged after getting that Pokeball thrown at him earlier in the season, then Staraptor sure is brain-damaged now from hitting his head like that.

Lance The Champ
28th November 2010, 10:13 AM
That volt tackle of Pikachu surprised Paul.... He was leaving the stadium but after seeing that move sat down again.....angrily

G50
27th April 2011, 6:54 AM
This episode was good. It was odd, but expected for Ash to lose the 1st time to Roark in the Gym Battle. Onix's Screech attack was very powerful in this battle. Pikachu was just too exausted from defeating Cranidos to be able to go on and defeat Onix. It was a twist to see Roark using Cranidos 1st instead of last in this battle. Paul's attitude again during this episode was very bad.

70/100

BurningSociety12345543210
16th June 2012, 9:53 PM
Nice to see Paul got rid of Azumarill. Poor inconsistent Pikachu always losing to unevolved weak pokemon like Elekid and now Onix.

Dawn+Serena Fan
10th August 2012, 12:53 AM
I just finished watching the episode and man I miss it XD.
I loved the battle between Ash and Roark, it was intense. I also liked the part where Paul goes to leave then Pikachu defends Ash. It was funny how Ash lost though, right in front of his rival XD.
Also the part where Paul forgets Dawn's name and gets mad at him was hilarious XD.
I give it a 10/10!

Sinnoh Ash
10th August 2012, 1:08 AM
I just finished watching the episode and man I miss it XD.
I loved the battle between Ash and Roark, it was intense. I also liked the part where Paul goes to leave then Pikachu defends Ash. It was funny how Ash lost though, right in front of his rival XD.
Also the part where Paul forgets Dawn's name and gets mad at him was hilarious XD.
I give it a 10/10!
Funny how this is the only gym Ash ever loses in Sinnoh. In other words Paul is Ash's bad luck.

Royal_Qeca
10th August 2012, 6:25 AM
Funny how this is the only gym Ash ever loses in Sinnoh. In other words Paul is Ash's bad luck.

No. Onix is his bad luck since its presence made Ash lose the first gym battle of Kanto and Sinnoh.

Bad Onix, bad!

CyberCubed
10th August 2012, 6:26 AM
No. Onix is his bad luck, making him lose the first gym battle of Kanto and Sinnoh. Bad pokemon, bad! >:

No, he always loses in one of the early Gyms.

Royal_Qeca
10th August 2012, 6:27 AM
I know... It was a god damn joke.

J Ken
16th July 2013, 1:29 AM
Congrats Ash you just showed why your the noob in your rivalry with Paul.

PokemontrainerY
24th July 2013, 10:17 PM
This was a good episode ..... It's funny when Dawn was mad at Paul for forgetting her name.
The battle between Roark and Ash was pretty intense, sadly he lost the battle.
Paul was behaving badly as always.


That volt tackle of Pikachu surprised Paul.... He was leaving the stadium but after seeing that move sat down again.....angrily

Yeah, Paul definitely was surprised, and that's what made him watch the battle.

Lorde
24th November 2014, 12:26 AM
I cackled at Dawn acting as a mediator between Ash and Paul. The scenes with Team Rocket at the museum were interesting, and I laughed when Ash told his Staravia that it would be sitting out during the Oreburgh Gym match. I was surprised that Roark used Cranidos first here and even more surprised that it took three of Ash's Pokemon to beat it.

Painkiller2001
12th December 2014, 3:43 AM
Being a flying type, you'd think Staravia would be aware of it's own weakness to rock type Pokemon, and knowing it would be the odd one out in who Ash picked for the battle.