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PEE
23rd April 2007, 8:35 PM
when ruby and sapphire first came out i had the hardest time ever of comeing up with a good pokemon team that i liked i tryed and tryed but ultimately i gave up, but just recently i came up with a team i want to try to use and ill list the team now

rayquaza
kyogre
salamence
shedinja
hariyama
jirachi

this is the team i want to try to use and i was wondering if anybody has a good move set for it, i have my own move set ideas but there are a few on this team iam not sure about so ill list all the possible types of moves that iam trying to decide on and hopefully someone here can help me decide what the best moves to teach the pokemon on this team are and the idea behind this pokemon team.

the whole point in this team is for all the pokemon on this team to try and support each other in one way or another based on there type and there attacks and i wana try and cover up as many weakess and give them as many advantages as possible. i dont just want them to have the best attacks possble i want them to have the best attacks but at the same time i want them to have attacks that will support the team, like for example i have 2 dragon types on this team, these two dragon types are the only pokemon types on the whole team that can learn a fire type move, now needless to say one of the things my team lacks is a fire pokemon so to try and cover up the weakness i want one of them to maybe learn a fire type move so even thought my team may lack a fire type theres at least one with a fire type move. that is a example of what i mean when i say i want this team of pokemon to not only have the best attacks possible but at the same time the best attacks that will help the team out in general.

first up is kyogre. heres a list of possible attack choices i have come up with

kyogre
surf
thunder
ice beam
calm mind/ or earthquake/ or scary face

ok now the whole point of kyogre is that its a strong power house pokemon but you already know that. the whole reason why its here is mostly cuase of his rain dance ablity combined with useing the attacks surf and thunder to whip out water types,flying types/ rock and ground also fire types. i also think hes good here cuase haveing a water type kinda helps since i have two dragons on this team iam hopeing that haveing a pokemon as strong as him will help balance it out. iam haveing a hard time decideing on if i should give kyogre earthquake or not or if it should have calm mind instead.

the thing is i really dont like the moves that power things up, i mean if i use calm mind with kyogre does it really make a big diffrence? someone tell me if it does, anyways i figured earthquake is a good move cuase it will do good when battleing electric or a steel type.

the reason why scary face is there as a possbley is becuase well needless to say it would make kyogre faster then what ever hes battleing giveing it and advantage or better yet if i were to switch out kyogre with something else it would most likely be faster then the oposeing pokemon iam battleing.

anyways thats one team member like i stated before kyogre is here for mostly a power house purpose and to counter the weakness to ice attacks for my dragons.

next member

shedinja

heres a guy i bet no one expected to see, the only reason why hes here is becuase number 1 i want this to be a diffrent kind of team not the same old same old types of team that people use something thats diffrent, pluse i really like his wonder guard ablity.

i want this to be a diffrent team and whos more diffrent than shedinja ? pluse as you already know he covers alote of weakness for this team. when ever one of my pokemon gets hit with a strong move like if is about to battle an ice type or water and i know an ice moves comeing all i have to do is switch rayquaza out to shedinja and the attack will have been for noting.

most water/ice types dont have attacks to battle shedinja so most likely my oppnet would switch out to another pokomon either that or shedinja will slowly chop and the pokemons life until it faints.

ill get more into that in a sec but continuing on shedinja is basicly on this team so it can help my other pokemon dodge attacks also it helps counter the ice weakness my team has.

if i have a dragon out and he has a pokemon that i know will most likely use an ice type move i can switch to shedninja makeing the attack waisted and useless . or if i have jirachi out and hes going for a ground attaack, i can then switch to shedninja, or if i have hariyama out and he has a psychic pokemon out i can switch yama to shedjninja dodgeing the attack.

also if my oppnet switchs out to a pokemon that knows an attack that will kill my shedinja i could maybe predict it and switch out at the same time as him with a better pokemon to take on his. like say for example a battle starts i start off with slamence while my oppnet starts off with milotic, now most likely milotic would go for and ice type move since most water types know this and since ice is so bad vs dragons, knowing this i would switch to shedninja and the attack would do noting to him. now at this point since a milotic does not really know attacks that will effect shedninja he will most likly switch to a pokemon that does either by and attack or a attack and a type. i can maybe predict this and switch to a pokemon that i think will counter what hes useing. haveing a switch happen at the same time like that will change the base of the battle. i know shedninjas not perfect, it has alote of bad things about it but i want to focus on the good and try really hard to make him work for this team

heres a list of possble moves for shedinja

toxic
shadow ball/ or shawdow punch
metal claw
confuse ray
protect
return
spite
grudge
hidden power[ can someone tell me what hidden power does for shedinja?

those are the possible moves i have decided for him now let me explain y i chose those.

first off shedinja is not a very strong pokemon nore can he learn any real strong moves, the only thing that makes him good is his ablity to only get hit with super effective moves i think giveing him toxic is good becuase toxic requires no high attack or special attack state it just requires that the pokemon geting hit will it is not a posin type or a steel type or a pokemon thats just imuned to poisn.

anyways as you know toixc slowy makes a pokemon faint so that move alones takes the way the need for doing any serious attacking which is good if shedinja is fighting a pokemon that has no attacks that are unable to hurt it

another move on the list is confuse ray,the reason i chose this is becuase like toxic shedinja does not have to be super strong to do some good damge to who ever iam battling like toxic it can slowly drain the other pokemons life to 0, this could work out even better if the oppnet is confused and poisned at the same time

another move i chose is shadow ball or shadow punch the only reason why i chose these is just so shedinja would have an attack to use that went with its type since hes a ghost type and since these are ghost type moves i figured one of them might be good pluse it would give him a nice advantage over physhic pokemon. shadow ball has a chance at lowering sp def while shadow punch never misses and has more pp but shadow ball is a stronger attack which do you think is the better move?

return is a move thats in there for simaler reasons as shadow ball and shadow punch just an attacking move for shedinja

protect is a move i sliped in there to maybe try and protect him in a bad situation, say i have kyogre in battle with a magnaton the magnatons about to use thunder, i then decide to switch out kyogre for shedinja i perpare a toxic attack thinking my oppnet will switch magnaton out to a fire type for example, once its switched toxic hits. at the end of the turn some damged is done, next turn goes protect. theres the basic idea to use protect to help maybe in combo with toxic

metal claw is a move shedinja cant learn only nincada can learn this but if i hold off nincadas evolution until level 38 and let it evole then shedinja can get the move, metal claw is mostly just another attacking move that i like cuase it has a chance at lowering defensive which could make for example shadow ball and confuse ray as well as metal claw more powerful moves pluse it can be used 35 times which is also good

hidden power i only listed this so someone could tell me what type it is

final move idea is grudge this move is only here becuase in the worst event of what could happen to shedinja i can get rid of the attack that destored him

anyways those are all the move ideas i have for shedinja, if you think these are good or not good let me know.

if you can just take the moves i listed that you think are the best for him

next member

salamence

hes here becuase i like dragons and i like the fact that he can learn so many diffrent types of attacks needless to say this team is not pacted with the normal types of pokemon people use such as fire types grass types etc so pokemon like salamence/ rayquaza and kyogre are to be milked for all the diffrent attacks they can use on this team to make up for the pokemon types iam lacking

anyways back to salamence heres the possible move set for him
rock slide
fly
dragon dance
flamethrower
earthquake
crunch
dragon claw
brick break
HYDRO pump
thats about it. like i said salmence is here to help fill in gapes of certain type attacks, i figured i could either maybe make him a physical attack sweeper with these move sets

fly
dragon dance
earthquake
rock slide

thats a possible move set, iam not really sure i want salamence with a set of moves not only good for him but good for the team in general, but iam not completly sure.

also i want to know if useing dragon dance on salamence makes a big diffrence?

heres another move set idea

crunch
flamethrower
what ever else fits good here

like i said iam very unsure of his move set, my team needles to say lakes a fire pokemon or a dark type so theres a possibly i might set salamence up with crunch or flamethrower any sudjestions or ideas would be great for him. rember i want to try to make a balanced team with these pokemon iam listing

next team member is rayquaza

rayquaza is in the same boat as salamence hes a dragon which i like also he can learn alote of diffrent moves to fill in the lack of pokemon type my team has

most likely i want rayquaza to be a special attack type lined up with alote of great special attacks like

flamethrower
crunch
ice beam
thunder
solarbeam
outrage

you get the idea. there are also a few physical attacks that he can learn such as

fly
extremspeed
earthquake
brick break

to name a few

what i decide to teach salamence makes a big impact on what i decide to teach rayquaza i mean if i decide to make slalmence a physical attacker then rayquaza will most likey get flamethrower as one of his attacks instead of flame thrower going to salamence. any sugjestions would be great. remeber i want attacks that will help the whole team

next member is hariyama

hariyama is here becuase with his abilty called thick fat it helps the ice type weakness that my dragons have pluse his fighting attackpower does good when battleing and ice type or dark or rock or steal

heres a moveset list of ideas

rock slide
bluk up
rest
cross chop
reversal
belly drum
counter
faint attack
revenge
fakeout
whirlwind
edure
rest
brick break

hariyama like i said hes here becuase on one hand hes a pokemon i really like pluse with his thick fat ablity he makes ice and fire look like a joke which is good becuase of the 2 dragons being weak to ice moves and sedninja and jirachi being weak to fire

the reason why i think cross chop is good is becuase it can ko an oppnet fast. its either that or brick break i cant decide which is better

revenge might be a good move since hariyama is so slow so the oppnet will most likely hit first. then revenge attack will be doubled. would that make the attack stronger than crosschop?

belly drum is a very risky move it would make his attack power throught the roof but make his hp down more than half which could make him die easy from a strong attack, not sure what to do about this moves weakness.i could fix him up with rest that might help and maybe stick him with a idem that awakens him right away or i could give him the idem called the shell bell the idem that makes the pokemon recover 1/8 of hp depending on how much damage is dealed out. belly drum in combo with that would be great

fakeout is only good for one time use of geting 1 extra hit in and thats why its a possible move.

since hariyama is so slow i figured the move counter might be a good move for it. to counter off a really strong phyical attack.

faint attack is basicly thrown in becuase of the advantage while fighting ghost types since fighting moves have no effects on them

edure is a move that i think might be good in combonation with reversal. reversal might be good in combonation with belly drum. all thought i am not completly sure

whirl wind is just a random move to throw in. theres a chance i could make him battle something else instead of what hes currently battleing and maybe since i have sedninja i could maybe switch out or something. basicly by me doing whirl wind it might change the bases of whats going on in the battle and since yama is so slow and most likey to go second anyway theres no real loss

another move i thought might be good is earthquake yama has good attack power so earthquake might be good, also since it has the fire and electric type advantage its also good

bulk up is another possible move, i like it since it can raise attack and defence but iam not sure about it

another good move for hariyama i think might be rock slide, althought iam not sure about it. since if yama is
battleing a flying type most likely he wont last long anyways due to his weakness to flying type moves, rock slide might due well while battleing fire types but thats mostly it. anybody know if yama should know it?

The final move is hyper beam just a strong attack that might go good with belly drum.

Anyways those are all the attack ideas that i think hariyma could have. like i said before hes on the team for balace purposes with his thick fat ablity helping me with battleing fire and ice and his fighting attacks i figured hes a good choice.


final pokmon team member is jirachi

the reason i chose jirachi is hes the only psychic pokemon i really like pluse i think he helps balance the team out. here are his moveset ideas i have

psychic
calm mind
reflect
light screen
cosmic power
subsitute
furture sight
wish
toxic
protect
rest

ok the reason i chose psychic is easy to see so i wont even get into that.

now as far as moves such as reflect light screen go. the reason i chose those was mostly becuase in the event i need to switch jirachi or make its battle easyer i could use light screen or reflect to reduce what ever damage iam takeing or if iam switching w/e iam switching to will receive less damage

calm mind is here to try to power up jirachis sp def and sp attack needless to say by powering him up i make him a force to deal with maybe if i combined this with shell bell that might help him out to

rest and wish are here becuase i can decide which one i prefer, now rest on one hand heals all hp but jirachs asleep for two turns but that might not be a bad thing if i either have calm mind or reflect or light screen going. since jirachi is part steel most moves would be not very effective giveing rest a good chance to kick in. and i could also give jirachi and idem that makes it so he awakens faster after useing rest.

wish on the other hand takes a while to take in effect but the good thing about it is that it has the ablity to also heal other pokemon team members in case i wana switch out and since wish heals the pokemon at the end of the turn any damage i take from switching will be reduced to almost noting with wish refilling my hp. but i cant seem to decide which i want more rest or wish

toxic is a possible becuase jirachi being part steel and the possblity of being backed up with either clam mind, rest, wish,reflect,light screen, or cosmic power might make toxic take effect better or even switching to shedninja if i wanted to might help toxic take effect faster while keeping jirachi ok.

protect is here to back toxic up

furture sight is here becuase i dont feel like jirachi has alote of attacks that it can do that would be any real good moves besides phychic.

furture sight might be able help make damge happen better to an oppnet


the final move idea i have for jirachi is subsitute this move is good becuase it could help reduce any damage jirachi might take combine this with calm mind or any of the others i listed above would make jirachi hard to beat


well that about ends my pokemon teams list for possible attacks to stick them with.

as i said before my goal with this team is to create a team of pokemon that support each other to the best of what they can do with either there attacks, theres ablitys, or there types or special moves.

please keep that in mind when you try to put teogher a team model, i dont just want them to have best attacks, i want them to have best attacks as well as best attacks that support each other as a team, i really hope someone can see what iam really trying to do in this team and can help me out

anyways any advice or help with this dream team of mine would be fantastic thanks in advace and hope to hear from you soon.

Reno
23rd April 2007, 8:43 PM
alot of pointless information.

kyogre@lum berry
modest
-surf
-calm mind
-thunder
-ice beam

jirachi@leftovers
bold
-reflect
-thunder/psychic
-calm mind
-wish

rayquaza@choice band
adamant
-extreme speed
-rock slide
-earthquake
-aerial ace

shedinja@lum berry/choice band
adamant
-protect/return
-silver wind
-shadow ball
-swords dance/aerial ace

hariyama@leftovers
adamant
**guts**
-rest
-sleep talk
-cross chop
-rock slide

salamence@lum berry/choice band
adamant
-fire blast
-dragon dance/aerial ace
-rock slide
-earthquake

PEE
23rd April 2007, 9:18 PM
pointless information? well excuse me mr Aldred FellBlade, the reason i took the time to explain so much is i felt it was important to tell what i was trying to do to show thaT i care rather then just saying......hey hey everyone heres a team of pokemon give them moves now!!!!

Anyways all that aside thanks for your advice but would you mind explaing to me why you made these choices as being a good moveset for my team please?

Vaporeon4evr
24th April 2007, 12:09 AM
pointless information? well excuse me mr Aldred FellBlade, the reason i took the time to explain so much is i felt it was important to tell what i was trying to do to show thaT i care rather then just saying......hey hey everyone heres a team of pokemon give them moves now!!!!

Anyways all that aside thanks for your advice but would you mind explaing to me why you made these choices as being a good moveset for my team please?

The reason we reccommend you keep your team posts short is to keep organization. That initial post was tough to follow. And several of us know enough about pokemon to know what pokemon work well together, so you don't need to explain all of your choices. We all know that Kyogre's Drizzle is a perfect set-up for thunder and surf. But the rain will last the whole battle, and will half the power of the fire attacks you mentioned.

And the reason Alldred FellBlade made those reccommendations is because those are the movesets that work best for those pokemon.

I didn't even see you post Aerial Ace for Salamence. That's a given.

Scepgatr
24th April 2007, 9:42 AM
Most of Aldred FellBlade's movesets should straight forward and easily understandable.

Jirachi has Bold nature and Reflect to get minimal damage from physical attacks. While it can Calm Mind and resist special attacks as well. Psychic is a straight forward STAB move. Thunder is also an option since since Kyogre's Rain Dance makes it 100% accurate and due to Jirachi's Serene Grace ability, you have a 42% chance of paralyzing the foe. While you set this up, you will loose HP, thus Wish to restore HP on the next turn.

Jirachi is also a Pokémon that supports the rest of the team. With Reflect, the rest of the team also take half the damage from physical attacks. You can also heal your teammates with Wish.

Hariyama uses Rest, thus activating the Guts ability which will increase the power of your other physical attacks. Then Sleep Talk to hit foe with Cross Chop and Rock Slide.

Do you have access to other Pokémon games such as Emerald/Fire Red/Leaf Green? If not, you won't be able to obtain a few of the above provided movesets. Please reply, so we may suggest the necessary changes. I didn't read through your whole initial post, so I apologize if you have to repeat yourself.

pyreshade
24th April 2007, 6:18 PM
i agree with these guys alot of infomation that people dont need i see how you were trying to show you didnt wanna just be like " gimme movesets now" but it would help if all your movesets were in one place.
and is trust aldred hes really good with movesets :)

and about shedinja he can be really good but hes a huge pain in the ____ to train i tried it sableyes funner nice movepool not huge but its alright but for sableye he needs to be fast or hell be taken out pretty fast

PEE
25th April 2007, 8:23 PM
oh i see wow thanks alote you guys i got more replys then thought i would get. Thank you pyreshade, Scepgatr and Vaporeon4evr ill anwer you guys one by one

to Vaporeon4evr wow i did not know that kyogres drizzle lasted the whole match, does that mean i should not have any fire attacks at all? i mean whats the point of fire attacks if once i send kyogre out fire becomes only half? maybe i should stick to flying and ground moves for attacking instead of fire since flying takes care of bugs and grass and ground takes care steel and a rock or fighting move takes care of ice and steel, which is what flamethrower did anyway, anyways thanks Vaporeon4evr for even posting an anwer, ill look over Aldred FellBlade post agian and give his choses some thought.

now to Scepgatr
why is teaching jirachi reflect so important? i mean hes part steel so most attacks even some normal ones should not do very much, i mean is his def that bad that he needs reflect despite the fact that hes part steel?
and also seting him up with bold nature is that really important to? his def must suck......

i understand the useing wish idea while seting all this up. and the fact that wish and reflect helps each member of my team. but what about light screen? it protects when battleing special attacks so is that a godd move to consider for jirachi? also how many times does wish work? once its used does it only work one time? i remeber battleing some trainers in the game that used wish and it seemed like the effect happened more than once does the wish effect keep working after one turn or is it just a one time thing? also thunder bolt might be a better attack for jirachi then thunder but iam not sure. i mean thunders only going to help if i have kyorge already in battle and switched out to jirachi, i could use thunder anyway but it might miss, although thunderbolt is miss free but has a less of a paralyzing chance, and of course theres the three punchs ice punch fire punch and thunder punch that have higer chances of status effect but i guess it depends.

Also i have a question for hariyama. the move set where he gets rest/sleep talk/rock slide/crosschop makes alote of sience if u combine it will guts ablity but what about some of his other attacks, one i want to question right now is the attack known as revenge.

The attack revenge looks like a good move to me since if my oppnet happens to hit hariyama first which is more than likely since yama is so slow then the attack is doubled its normal attack 60 so if i combine that with being attacked it goes up to 110 i think since the attacked is suposed to be doubled and if i combine that with guts and rest wont that do alote? i mean the attack is most likly doubled pluse with guts powering it up more it should do alote of damage, if iam wrong here feel free to correct me please

Also why is it better for hariyama to have guts instead of thick fat i mean the reason i liked the thick fat ablity is becuase its helps a few weaknesses my team has such as weakness to fire and ice. why would guts be better?

another thing that caught my attion is that one of the move sets for a member of the team, the member being shedninja moveset was listed by Aldred FellBlade


shedinja@lum berry/choice band
adamant
-protect/return
-silver wind
-shadow ball
-swords dance/aerial ace

its funny becuase some of those attacks are known only by ninjask, if i breed a ninjask to get nincada is there a chance i can get ninjasked moves for nincada? if sodoes that means i can get a shedninja with baton pass?

also whats a good move set for hariyama while hes useing the attack reversal?

and no i do not have any other pokemon game besides sapphire and fire red and colossueim pluse XD


well i guess those are all the question i have iam sorry for makeing my last post so long, this ones alote shorter at least i think, iam still now 100 percent sure about a good moveset for rayquaza and salemence iam looking over Aldred FellBlade chose but iam still thinking about, anybody got anymore examples for a good movesets for rayquaza salamence or anyother member of my team please let me know. thanks in advance

p.s anymore good move sets for shedninja? and has anyone here ever used shedninja on a team and had alote of success with it?

and to pyreshade sorry my post was so long before like i said i did it cuase i wanted to show i cared about the team and not just write a pokemon team and ask for a move set. but i guess i went overboard in the furture ill try to keep it shorter

anyways thanks to Scepgatr,Aldred FellBlade,pyreshadeand Vaporeon4evr for you help, anymore would be great from you guys or anyone else

thanks in advance

Reno
25th April 2007, 9:25 PM
jirachis defense isnt bad, its base 100. its just that if it takes a earthquake it will hurt alot, so reflect will lower that considerably. and calm mind is to protect the special side of things.

Dandegod
25th April 2007, 11:19 PM
hmm kinda different team than usual stuff quite a few peeps have salamence but then again he does rock, shedninja is a very good choice along as you can get it dealing out powerful enough damage though. watch out for foresight i hope you with have a good team raise them.

Scepgatr
26th April 2007, 9:50 AM
Like Aldred FellBlade mentioned, Jirachi has a good defense. Infact, Jirachi's base Defense is better than the rest of your team. With all the setting up, it grants Jirachi a lot of staying power. Wish can be used more than once. Just Wish, then the nest turn you are healed. After that you can use Wish again, to heal the turn after. If you want to heal another team mate, then use Wish, then switch in the next member. The Pokémon might get hit by the foe, but after that hit, it gets healed. Thunder is better than Thunderbolt. Jirachi can afford to miss a few times. The punches aren't an option if you don't have Emerald.

Hariyama @ Leftovers
Trait: Thick Fat/Guts
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Cross Chop
- Rock Slide
- Counter
- Fake Out

Since you don't have Emerald, you don't have RestTalk set for Hariyama anymore. You can have Thick Fat or Guts Ability in this case.
Reversal users need Speed to be effective. Hariyama doesn't have speed.

Level up your Nincada to level 24. Then evolve it to Ninjask at level 25. Allow Ninjask to learn Swords Dance. Then when you check your party, you will have a Shedinja with Swords Dance. Silver Wind is an egg move for Nincada (breed with Butterfree, Beautifly, Dustox, Venomoth or Masquerain). Shedinja doesn't have time to set up and then Baton Pass, since most opponents will carry something to KO Shedinja.

Since you only have Sapphire and Fire Red, that means at least two Earthquake TMs and one Rock Slide move tutor (which is gone to Hariyama).
So Rayquaza and Salamence are limited. Both can be special sweepers with:

- Dragon Claw
- Crunch
- Hydro Pump(mence)/Thunderbolt(quaza)
- Fire Blast/Flamethrower

Otherwise both can still be physical, just without Rock Slide:

- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Aerial Ace
- Fire Blast/Extremespeed(quaza only)

Others are welcome to suggest better movesets.

PEE
29th April 2007, 9:18 PM
ok well iam back anyone miss me?.............yea right i dout it... anyways i would like to take the time to once agian thank everyone for all the help with my team so fair, i have been thinking about it and looking over some of the move set ideas some from this thread and some on the main site. now what i want to do now is post a model of my team and the attacks i have decided that they will learn and a few reasons behind these choices.

The reason why iam doing this is to see what everyone thinks of the movesets i chose, i also have a few questions regarding some moves still, ill post the question and my team as well as a little bit of my stragety on how iam useing them. Dont worry it wont be long like my last post anyways here they are


kyogre
surf
thunder
calm mind
ice beam

needless to say i dont need to explain this moveset its the normal set for a kyogre the only problem i have with this moveset is that i cant decide if calm mind is worth it. i mean kyorge has preety good sp def and sp attack right?

So why does it need calm mind? i mean does useing it really make a big diffrence? i just can decide if kyorge needs this move, i mean instead of calm mind i could teach him an attack that would help my team such as return/sheer cold/brick break/earthquake/ basicly iam thnking i could replace calm mind with a better move and i just gave you an example of a few i think are good. also can some tell if kyorge has good attack power? the reason why i ask is if its strong enough to support physcial attacks.

My question on kyogre is someone please tell me if calm mind makes a diffrence in battle when used by kyorge. Also if calm mind is even worth it. if so explain to me why or why not.

Final question is if calm mind is not worth it whats a better attack to teach kyorge, i thought of a moves that i listed are they good? and does anyone have anymore? if so please let me know and explain why


heres the moveset of hariyama and a few questions regarding the moveset
hariyama
crosschop/brick break/ revenge
earthquake
rock slide
counter/bulk up/whirlwind/fakeout/belly drum/hidden power

ok now first off i have a question on the attack known as revenge. is it a good move? based on what i read about it it sounds good, in yet no one ever seems to use it. can someone explain to me why or why not this would be a good move for hariyama?

The reason why i put brick break as well as crosschop is becuase inorder to get crosschop you have to hatch a makuhita from an egg an it gets it. The problem is iam thinking of haveing a makuhita that knows crosschop and counter but i dont think he can learn both becuase there both egg moves that he can learn from 2 diffrent pokemon so iam thinking makuhita can only have 1 or the other but iam not sure so can someone conferm with makuhita can get both crosschop and counter? based on that anwer will determine if i give him crosschop or brick break also it will determine if i give him counter/bulk up/whirlwind/fakeout/belly drum/hidden power

final question is what does hidden power on hariyama do?


next pokemon is shedinja iam going to list this one a little bit diffrently
sword dance
aerial ace
toxic
shadow ball
return
secret power
hidden power
hyper beam
protect
endure
ok let me explain why i chose these as possibe moves

When a shedninja is put in batlle the very first thing my oppnet will most likely do is switch out there pokemon unless there current pokemon has an attack to kill shedninja.Now when this happens i have 1 or 2 choses i can either predict that my oppnet is going to switch out and i could switch shedninja out at the same time or i could have shedninja attack while my oppnets switching out

This is where secret power and toxic come in. while my oppnets switching i could posin the next pokemon or i could use scret power in hopes the the attack will paralyze the next pokemon, does anyone think this is a good idea? if so let me know which attack is better to use toic or scret power and explain why. or if none of these attacks are good explain why

protect and endure are only here if i decide to go with toxic.

sword dance is here in case i decide to make shedninja a attacker.

ok now here are the attacks iam haveing a conflict with shedninja over. they are

hyper beam
return
hidden power
shadow ball
secret power
aerial ace

scret power is a maybe attack if i decide on that over toxic theres even a chance i might not give shedjina scret power or toxic at all just an idea the bigest reason why scret power is here its is becuase of the chance of paralyzeing a pokemon while my oppnet has switch out afterwards i can switch out to a pokemon who will have an advantage over the paralized foe.

aerial ace is here becuase shedninja is slow i figure if i combine it sword dance and get to the max i can ko all most anypokemon pluse the advantages of it being a flying type move as well

shadow ball is only here cuase of it fits shedninjas type and can kill psychics and can combine with sword dance

the reason hidden power is here is becuase someone once said that shedninja with hidden power has fighting/rock abilties someone please confirm if this is true. and besides that the attack speaks for itself since its rock/fighting i can use sword dance with it and have advantage when fighting normal/bug/ice steel and fighting. there are more advantages but they dont matter since shedninja is weak to other advantages and wont last long

final attack idea is hyper beam this move speaks for itself a strong attack and combine it with sword dance for a fast ko. for those of u that are wondering why siliver wind is not here i decided that for the most part the attack is not needed here.

next pokemon is salamence

fly/hidden power/aerial ace
earthquake
rock slide
dragon dance/hydro pump/crunch/brick break/dragon claw/rest/roar

the reason why fly/ hidden power and aerial ace is undecided becuase i read somewhere that hidden power is a flying type move for salamence and that its the strongest flying type move he can have some please confirm if thats true.

I chose fly becuase its stronger than aerial ace. salamence is mostly faster than most pokemon so have a speed advantage i figured was not needed pluse he might have dragon dance to so that would take care of speed anyway. Aerial ace is mostly there for its type and its speed

now the conflict with dragon dance/hydro pump/crunch/brick break/dragon claw/rest/roar is that just like kyorge i want to know if dragon dance is going to make a big diffrence with salamence some please confirm this. and explain why it does make a diffrence or why it does not make a diffrence.

the reason why i chose the other attacks is mostly by attack type advatages like crunch brick break hydro pump and for those of you who wonder why i did not list flamethrower i did not forget it i just decided he does not need that attack a flying type move as well as earthquake and rockslide do all of flamethrowers type advatages pluse salamence has higer attack them sp attack anyway pluse the dragon dance.

dragon claw is only here for a strong base attack to use.

rest is here for hp recovery and roar is here in case i decide to make a strgety with shedninja and make my oppnet switch out or something. anyways please give me input on this.

iam going to skip jirachi and rayquaza for the most part i think i can figure out there moves on my own mostly based on all the help i have been geting. Only question i have for rayquaza is that whats his better state attack power or sp attack power?

but heres my final question in case u missed it from up above i want to know if useing power up moves on my team of pokemon will make a big diffrence in there states the power ups are

bulk up for hariyam
calm mind for jirachi and kyorge
dragon dance for slamence and rayquaza

just thought i list it agian in case you missed it before. do power ups make a diffrence yes or no please explain why or why not.

anyways thats all for now, i hope to get alote of anwers please anwer back soon thanks in advance.

crudent
30th April 2007, 6:41 AM
ok well iam back anyone miss me?.............yea right i dout it... anyways i would like to take the time to once agian thank everyone for all the help with my team so fair, i have been thinking about it and looking over some of the move set ideas some from this thread and some on the main site. now what i want to do now is post a model of my team and the attacks i have decided that they will learn and a few reasons behind these choices.

The reason why iam doing this is to see what everyone thinks of the movesets i chose, i also have a few questions regarding some moves still, ill post the question and my team as well as a little bit of my stragety on how iam useing them. Dont worry it wont be long like my last post anyways here they are


kyogre
surf
thunder
calm mind
ice beam

needless to say i dont need to explain this moveset its the normal set for a kyogre the only problem i have with this moveset is that i cant decide if calm mind is worth it. i mean kyorge has preety good sp def and sp attack right?

So why does it need calm mind? i mean does useing it really make a big diffrence? i just can decide if kyorge needs this move, i mean instead of calm mind i could teach him an attack that would help my team such as return/sheer cold/brick break/earthquake/ basicly iam thnking i could replace calm mind with a better move and i just gave you an example of a few i think are good. also can some tell if kyorge has good attack power? the reason why i ask is if its strong enough to support physcial attacks.

My question on kyogre is someone please tell me if calm mind makes a diffrence in battle when used by kyorge. Also if calm mind is even worth it. if so explain to me why or why not.

Final question is if calm mind is not worth it whats a better attack to teach kyorge, i thought of a moves that i listed are they good? and does anyone have anymore? if so please let me know and explain why


heres the moveset of hariyama and a few questions regarding the moveset
hariyama
crosschop/brick break/ revenge
earthquake
rock slide
counter/bulk up/whirlwind/fakeout/belly drum/hidden power

ok now first off i have a question on the attack known as revenge. is it a good move? based on what i read about it it sounds good, in yet no one ever seems to use it. can someone explain to me why or why not this would be a good move for hariyama?

The reason why i put brick break as well as crosschop is becuase inorder to get crosschop you have to hatch a makuhita from an egg an it gets it. The problem is iam thinking of haveing a makuhita that knows crosschop and counter but i dont think he can learn both becuase there both egg moves that he can learn from 2 diffrent pokemon so iam thinking makuhita can only have 1 or the other but iam not sure so can someone conferm with makuhita can get both crosschop and counter? based on that anwer will determine if i give him crosschop or brick break also it will determine if i give him counter/bulk up/whirlwind/fakeout/belly drum/hidden power

final question is what does hidden power on hariyama do?


next pokemon is shedinja iam going to list this one a little bit diffrently
sword dance
aerial ace
toxic
shadow ball
return
secret power
hidden power
hyper beam
protect
endure
ok let me explain why i chose these as possibe moves

When a shedninja is put in batlle the very first thing my oppnet will most likely do is switch out there pokemon unless there current pokemon has an attack to kill shedninja.Now when this happens i have 1 or 2 choses i can either predict that my oppnet is going to switch out and i could switch shedninja out at the same time or i could have shedninja attack while my oppnets switching out

This is where secret power and toxic come in. while my oppnets switching i could posin the next pokemon or i could use scret power in hopes the the attack will paralyze the next pokemon, does anyone think this is a good idea? if so let me know which attack is better to use toic or scret power and explain why. or if none of these attacks are good explain why

protect and endure are only here if i decide to go with toxic.

sword dance is here in case i decide to make shedninja a attacker.

ok now here are the attacks iam haveing a conflict with shedninja over. they are

hyper beam
return
hidden power
shadow ball
secret power
aerial ace

scret power is a maybe attack if i decide on that over toxic theres even a chance i might not give shedjina scret power or toxic at all just an idea the bigest reason why scret power is here its is becuase of the chance of paralyzeing a pokemon while my oppnet has switch out afterwards i can switch out to a pokemon who will have an advantage over the paralized foe.

aerial ace is here becuase shedninja is slow i figure if i combine it sword dance and get to the max i can ko all most anypokemon pluse the advantages of it being a flying type move as well

shadow ball is only here cuase of it fits shedninjas type and can kill psychics and can combine with sword dance

the reason hidden power is here is becuase someone once said that shedninja with hidden power has fighting/rock abilties someone please confirm if this is true. and besides that the attack speaks for itself since its rock/fighting i can use sword dance with it and have advantage when fighting normal/bug/ice steel and fighting. there are more advantages but they dont matter since shedninja is weak to other advantages and wont last long

final attack idea is hyper beam this move speaks for itself a strong attack and combine it with sword dance for a fast ko. for those of u that are wondering why siliver wind is not here i decided that for the most part the attack is not needed here.

next pokemon is salamence

fly/hidden power/aerial ace
earthquake
rock slide
dragon dance/hydro pump/crunch/brick break/dragon claw/rest/roar

the reason why fly/ hidden power and aerial ace is undecided becuase i read somewhere that hidden power is a flying type move for salamence and that its the strongest flying type move he can have some please confirm if thats true.

I chose fly becuase its stronger than aerial ace. salamence is mostly faster than most pokemon so have a speed advantage i figured was not needed pluse he might have dragon dance to so that would take care of speed anyway. Aerial ace is mostly there for its type and its speed

now the conflict with dragon dance/hydro pump/crunch/brick break/dragon claw/rest/roar is that just like kyorge i want to know if dragon dance is going to make a big diffrence with salamence some please confirm this. and explain why it does make a diffrence or why it does not make a diffrence.

the reason why i chose the other attacks is mostly by attack type advatages like crunch brick break hydro pump and for those of you who wonder why i did not list flamethrower i did not forget it i just decided he does not need that attack a flying type move as well as earthquake and rockslide do all of flamethrowers type advatages pluse salamence has higer attack them sp attack anyway pluse the dragon dance.

dragon claw is only here for a strong base attack to use.

rest is here for hp recovery and roar is here in case i decide to make a strgety with shedninja and make my oppnet switch out or something. anyways please give me input on this.

iam going to skip jirachi and rayquaza for the most part i think i can figure out there moves on my own mostly based on all the help i have been geting. Only question i have for rayquaza is that whats his better state attack power or sp attack power?

but heres my final question in case u missed it from up above i want to know if useing power up moves on my team of pokemon will make a big diffrence in there states the power ups are

bulk up for hariyam
calm mind for jirachi and kyorge
dragon dance for slamence and rayquaza

just thought i list it agian in case you missed it before. do power ups make a diffrence yes or no please explain why or why not.

anyways thats all for now, i hope to get alote of anwers please anwer back soon thanks in advance.

"so why does it need calm mind?"kyogre is a special attacker.with its uber special attack and special defense, even one calm mind can make its specials in the 600+ range.and that's a hell lot."also can some tell if kyorge has good attack power?"base 100 attack on an uber is not considered very good, especially when it has 150 and 140 for its specials.your current kyogre moveset looks fine. "ok now first off i have a question on the attack known as revenge. is it a good move?" it's not, for god's sake. do you have to wait until the opponent deals damage to you before you attack? you'll be a goner by then. "final question is what does hidden power on hariyama do?" it gives it an attack of a particular type, for example flying. So it can do good damage to other fighting types. ok, your shedinja looks screwed. try giving it: shedinja @ lum berry/choice band, adamant nature (+atk, -satk) - Shadow Ball - Silver Wind - Protect/Aerial Ace - Toxic/Hidden Power [Rock/Fighting]. nothing else will work. because shedinja is so frail, it fails at enduring. lum berry is there so it doesn't get affected too badly by toxic or burn. yes you can get different types of hidden power, depending on your ivs, but that's a different question altogether.the move hidden power has a different move type and power based on your pokemon’s ivs. since ivs don’t change, the hidden power your pokemon has is the one it will always have. there is a calculator on the main site, to help you calculate the hidden power.the main site’s iv calculator also shows you your pokemon’s hidden power type and power, but again, since iv calculators are only completely accurate at lv100, you don’t want to rely on the calculator to tell you your pokemon’s hidden power. the best way, if you don’t want to bother with the calculation, is to battle a kecleon. when you use the move, kecleon will change to the type of your pokemon’s hidden power.if you can’t find kecleon, or you aren’t using a game that has it, just use process of elimination. for example, if you battle a grass-type pokemon and hidden power is super effective, it can only be fire, poison, ice, flying, or bug. battle another type to eliminate more options until you’re left with the only possible hidden power type your pokemon can have. thanks to the iv thread. and kecleon is like a chameleon. did you realise that. i like typing like this. oh, and please never ever ever ever ever ever ever use hyper beam on anythingotherthanslaking. on a shedinja alone, it's just plain stupid. why open up a turn for the opponent to ko you? yes hp flying is indeed the strongest flying type move that salamence can learn. my salamence owns you. a hidden power can have a power of up till 70. whereas aerial ace can only have up till 60. so does wing attack. gust has a power of 35. or was it 40. can someone remind me. oh yes, back to the topic. my salamence owns. oh? it wasn't the topic. oh dear it seems that i am clogging up this entire post. anyway fly sucks as it allows the opponent to do what they like for one turn, like stat up or protect. dragon dance is good on salamence, but it's even better on tyranitar. i like a tyranitar. however, it has a 4 times fighting weakness, so that's what prevents me from using it. just one dragon dance alone can send salamence's attack into the 600+ range too. now that's a big reason to use it. i get your point on flamethrower, it's not really needed on the dragon dance salamence set. are you on rosie's side or donald's side. rest is not generally considered good on salamence because it is a sweeper and does not have enough defenses to last 2 turns. any ice beam will kill it. i recommend you go with dragon dance on tyranitar. i like a tyranitar. however, it has a 4 times fighting weakness, so that's what prevents me from using it. just one dragon dance alone can send salamence's attack into the 600+ range too. now that's a big reason to use it. i'm glad to see you're doing very well with the rayquaza and jirachi. remember kids, don't get herpes! rayquaza's attack and special attack are the same. 150 base power. do you know what else gets 150 base power? that's right it's kyogre! oh, and your kyogre looks fine. did i tell you that? power ups make a big difference, for example on a kyogre, with its uber special attack and special defense, even one calm mind can make its specials in the 600+ range.and that's a hell lot. dragon dance is good on salamence, but it's even better on tyranitar. i like a tyranitar. however, it has a 4 times fighting weakness, so that's what prevents me from using it. just one dragon dance alone can send salamence's attack into the 600+ range too. now that's a big reason to use it. i hope i give good answers, me very good at pokemans.

PEE
30th April 2007, 10:54 PM
wow dude you said alote your post was really helpful still have a few more questions though not many just a few.

1. when u breed a makuhita is it possible to get the moves crosschop and counter? i know that both of these moves are egg moves and the only way to get them is by breeding 2 diffrent types of pokemon machop,macoke/machamp for crosschop and counter from another pokemon all though i dont know what pokemon makuhita can learn counter from as an egg move but iam currently looking in my ruby/sapphire walk throught book and from what iam seeing machop can learn counter as an egg move so does that mean inorder to make makuhita learn both moves i have to breed a machop that knows crosschop and counter with makuhita inorder to get makuhita with crosschop and counter? if so what pokemon has to be breed with machop isorder to make it learn counter as an egg move? can someone please confirm this? how do i get a makuhita with counter and crosschop if thats even possible? also is brick break a strong move when used by hariyama?


2. heres one on jirachi, this is its move set currently

thunder
reflect
calm mind
wish

my only question is that this moveset i think is great the only problem i see is that if jirachi ever goes up and has to fight a ground pokemon its completely screwed, i really want to try to throw psyhic in here but iam just not sure, on one hand this move sets great and with it i could cuase any pokemon problems iam just worried in case i wind up fighting ground so if i could get rid of any of these attacks for psychics what should it be? or should i just forget about the ground weakness?

3. after thinking about it i have come up with a great move set for rayquaza iam just haveing a hard time with his last and final move

rayquaza
ice beam
earthquake
fly/aerial ace
crunch/outrage/extremespeed/brick break/dragon dance/bulk up/roar/return

ok like i said rayquazasfinal attack is where the problem is. Ice beam earthquake and aerial ace/fly take care of alote of types scoreing alote of advantages
and for those of you who are wondering why no flamethrower or thunder bolt both those moves are pointless for this rayquaza iam sure i dont need to explain why. anyways the final attack is the bigest problem i could stick him with brick break giveing him more advantages to normal types and to dark types or crunch makeing him good vs ghost and psychics or bulk up or dragon dance to increase other states or could throw in roar just for the heck of it and maybe make a stragty with that while useing shedninja or extremespeed sinces its fast and strong or finally outrage since it goes with his type and it can sweep any pokemon that i dont have a advantage over. also what does rayquaza hidden power do?

Needless to say i cant decide on final attack so some input on this would be great.

lol and what do you mean your salamence owns mine? what are his states and effects?

anyways i think this is my shortest post yet...........anyways my teams almost done i can feel it, anyways any advice and help would be great thanks in advance.

crudent
1st May 2007, 6:36 AM
Okay, please delete your extra 4 posts.

My post was long and unformatted to show you how irritating it is to read such a long post. Just type out your main points. This is a RMT forum, not your degree paper.

For Machop, breed Counter onto him and let him learn Cross Chop. Then breed this with a female Makuhita.

Jirachi needs Baton Pass. Or else all those Calm Minds go to waste when facing Dugtrio.

Your Rayquaza looks screwed. Either make all its moves physical, or make all its moves special. Go with Aldred Fellblade's set waaaay up above.

"My salamence owns you" was just a filler statement, to ensure that you actually read every single word of my post. Gosh, you sure do have a lot of patience.

Oh, and you think that's the shortest you can go? Can you type out a post within 10 lines?

Scepgatr
1st May 2007, 9:30 AM
Hitmonchan (Counter - Lv. 50) -> Machop (Cross Chop - Lv. 40) -> Makuhita
Since this in-game, you can safely replace Reflect with Psychic for Jirachi.
I provided movesets for Rayquaza in my previous post. Use them.

Hidden Power is a complicated move. Read through this guide (http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=105223). If you have any further questions, then post them there, not here.

crudent
1st May 2007, 12:56 PM
Oh crap, I forgot, Jirachi doesn't learn Baton Pass. Mixed Celebi and Jirachi up, my bad. Anyway do what Scepgatr said.

P.S. Team raters don't like looking through long posts.

PEE
1st May 2007, 10:07 PM
thanks guys ill try to keep this short......... ok here it goes.

first off sorry for double posting more than once the thing is lately its been a little hard trying to get on this forum even posting is hard, the guy on the main site says things got slower due to so many people trying to get in it.

I tryed posting on here but when i did the first time i had lost contact with the site so i did it 3 more times and i got the same thing, i then tryed comeing back to the site at the same time and i could not see any of what i just posted then i come back today and see it four times, sry iam currently trying to delete them but am haveing the same problems as yesterday. but as soon as i cant delete them i will.

as fair as rayquaza goes why do i have to make him a special sweeper of physical sweeper? the attacks i chose for him were the best moves as fair the many advantages he has when useing these moves i just dont see any point in teaching him flamethrower and thunder bolt the reason is cuase a fire attack is not needed since it only does good when batteling ice fire grass steel and bugs a flying move goes with rayquazas type and beats grass bugs while earthquake takes out steel and fire pluse eletric and rock i also have kyorge on my team and with its dribble abilty lasting the whole match flamethrower is even more useless.

flamethrower is also good vs ice how ever but rayquaza would die so fast from 1 ice move theres no point in trying. as as fair as thunderbolt goes its also pointless only has advantages over water and flying most water types know ice move so theres no point there and ice beam is better becuase noty only does it have advantage over flying but rock and ground and other dragons also.

Anyways thats the whole reason i chose the moveset

earthquake
ice beam
a flying move
still working on it

anyways you get the point. and i figured out another way to teach makuhita counter you can do it by breeding a breloom and cacnea a breloom with counter of course after words cacnea can be breeded with machop then with makuhita. iam sure you get the idea

and whats wrong with the attack outrage for rayquaza? and will dragon dance of bulk up really changed when used on him

thats it for now thanks in advance.

Scepgatr
2nd May 2007, 8:55 AM
Rayquaza has Air-Lock Ability. Go into the dessert with Rayquaza in the lead. You will notice that even though there is a Sand storm, Rayquaza won't get hit by it. This is due to its Air-Lock Ability. Go into a double battle (e.g against Gabby & TY) with Rayquaza and Kyogre out at the same time. Kyogre's Thunder will miss at certain times, while its Surf won't be so powerful. Even though it will be raining, due to Rayquaza's Air-Lock Ability, the rain has no dis/advantages. So weather has no effect when Rayquaza is out. Thus its Flamethrower will always have the same power.
Your current moveset for Rayquaza is fine in-game. Just make it Lonely/Naughty/Mild/Rash Natured, so that the offensive/spd stats aren't lowered.
Your method of breeding Counter + Cross Chop on Makuhita works.
Any stat-raising move basically raises the stat by 50%. Rayquaza is an extremely deadly force after a couple of Dragon Dances since it can easily out speed lots of/all Pokémons and can do serious damage to them.

PEE
4th May 2007, 7:50 PM
the team iam trying to prepare is a team for in game and for pokemon colossuiem and gale of darkness not to mention the battle tower in sapphire of course i wont be useing legendairys in battle tower. anyways how is it possible to get a certain nature for pokemon like kyorge rayquaza since u can only catch one in the game?

Scepgatr
4th May 2007, 7:58 PM
You can't change Natures. You are stuck with the current one. To get good natured Pokémons, you must soft-reset in front of the Pokčmon. You may have to change the movesets accordingly to the Natures, otherwise avoid using them.

PEE
8th May 2007, 7:41 PM
heres a question on evs training for my team, when evs training pokemon is it better to only evs train for 2 states? whats the best number to train and can someone give me an idea on what states are most important to raise on the following pokemon

rayquaza
jirachi
kyorge
hariyama

crudent
9th May 2007, 12:34 PM
Rayquaza: 252 Special Attack (as you're having the special attacker) and 252 Speed. 4 HP. Same EVs for Kyogre.
Jirachi: 252 HP, 252 Special Attack, 4 Spd. It's what I recommend for ingame.
Hariyama: 252 HP, 252 Attack, 4 Def.

It's ingame, so EVs don't really matter much.

PEE
10th May 2007, 1:22 AM
iam trying to raise kyorge and rayquaza to have certain natures so fair i have started my game over twice and kyorge gets the same nature everytime its always hasty, is his nature chosen at random or will it always be hasty no matter what? the same question goes for rayquaza.

Another question for rayquaza is what would be the best nature to try a get for one if i wanted to make him a special and physical sweeper?

nubinator
10th May 2007, 2:46 AM
save infront of them and SR, The nature is randomly generated. So your just unlucky :P

Scepgatr
10th May 2007, 7:52 AM
Another question for rayquaza is what would be the best nature to try a get for one if i wanted to make him a special and physical sweeper?
Mixed Sweeper: Lonely, Naughty, Mild or Rash.

PEE
11th May 2007, 12:17 AM
thanks heres another question, some here just said evs training is pointless wince its in game, why is that?

the team i make is a team i plain on useing in the sapphire game as well as fire red, colosseuim, gale of darkness and the battle tower in sapphire, evs training wont give me any kind of an advantage battleing in these places?

The Mighty Wurmple
11th May 2007, 7:26 AM
In-game doesn't isn't as much of a challenge as competitive is.

crudent
11th May 2007, 8:07 AM
^ lol that comment was gold. It practically nullified every other post before it.

GG. :D

The Mighty Wurmple
11th May 2007, 8:49 AM
Well, he wanted to know why not to bother EV train like others have said.