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klducks
7th October 2004, 4:07 AM
kinda sick and tired of rating teams with random moves and have no clue if it works so im making a guide; its going to be in proper grammer n such and its going to kill me...

Uber List
Mewtwo, Lugia, Ho-oh, Rayquaza, Kyogre, Groudon, Latios, Latias, Deoxys, Deoxys-F, Deoxys-L, Deoxys-E, Wobbuffet.

Debatable:

Mew, Celebi, Jirachi

Hidden Power

A lot of people are still wondering what Hidden Power is. HP (stands for Hidden Power BTW) is a Normal attack that actually varies on what type it is. What determines the type are its IV's. However Hidden Power's in battle damage is for example grass, Counter can still be used against it while it is still originally a normal type.

Example:
Raichu used Hidden Power <<(grass)
Quagsire used Counter!
Raichu Fainted

Actually happened in a tourney once.

here are the configurations (thnx onimusha)

Fighting
30/30/30/30/30/30
31/30/30/30/30/30
30/31/30/30/30/30
31/31/30/30/30/30
30/30/31/30/30/30

Flying
31/30/31/30/30/30
30/31/31/30/30/30
31/31/31/30/30/30
30/30/30/31/30/30

Poison
31/30/30/31/30/30
30/31/30/31/30/30
31/31/30/31/30/30
30/30/31/31/30/30

Ground
31/30/31/31/30/30
30/31/31/31/30/30
31/31/31/31/30/30
30/30/30/30/31/30

Rock
31/30/30/30/31/30
30/31/30/30/31/30
31/31/30/30/31/30
30/30/31/30/31/30

Bug
31/30/31/30/31/30
30/31/31/30/31/30
31/31/31/30/31/30
30/30/30/31/31/30
31/30/30/31/31/30

Ghost
30/31/30/31/31/30
31/31/30/31/31/30
30/30/31/31/31/30
31/30/31/31/31/30

Steel
30/31/31/31/31/30
31/31/31/31/31/30
30/30/30/30/30/31
31/30/30/30/30/31

Fire
30/31/30/30/30/31
31/31/30/30/30/31
30/30/31/30/30/31
31/30/31/30/30/31

Water
30/31/31/30/30/31
31/31/31/30/30/31
30/30/30/31/30/31
31/30/30/31/30/31

Grass
30/31/30/31/30/31
31/31/30/31/30/31
30/30/31/31/30/31
31/30/31/31/30/31
30/31/31/31/30/31

Electric
31/31/31/31/30/31
30/30/30/30/31/31
31/30/30/30/31/31
30/31/30/30/31/31

Psychic
31/31/30/30/31/31
30/30/31/30/31/31
31/30/31/30/31/31
30/31/31/30/31/31

Ice
31/31/31/30/31/31
30/30/30/31/31/31
31/30/30/31/31/31
30/31/30/31/31/31

Dragon
31/31/30/31/31/31
30/30/31/31/31/31
31/30/31/31/31/31
30/31/31/31/31/31

Dark:
31/31/31/31/31/31


Type Coverage

Check your team for a type that more then half your pokemon are weak too. If you have that problem, maybe you should get a tank pokemon that can stop it. Example: a team with a Rock, Fire, and a Groudn type. Maybe you can get a Water Absorber and tank like Vaporeon or Lapras to prevent your team to start off 3-6 in a battle

Types

I had an argument about what type is what so im making a list here.

Physical Attacks: Normal, Fighting, Poison, Ground, Flying, Bug, Rock, Ghost, Steel

Special Attacks: Fire, Water, Electric, Grass, Ice, Psychic, Dragon, Dark

Stab
STAB stands for Same Type Attack Boost

When a pokemon does a move thats the same type as itself, the attack gets a power boost. How much you say? Well, you just divide the attack power by 2 and add it to the original attack power.

Example: Dodrio's Drill Peck's original power is 80. With STAB (80 divided by 2, then add 80 - 80 + 40 = 120), it becomes 120

Or, you can just multiply the attack power by 1.5

Example: Dodrio's Drill Peck: 80*1.5 = 120.0

What Moves Are Useful?

I have seen this set all over the forums that have gengar on their team

hypnosis, dream eater, psychic, t bolt/gigadrain

Hypnosis is just to risky at only 60% accuracy. And gengar with weak defenses, i wouldnt be suprised that one unlucky miss caused a fainted gengar. Before you go off assigning moves, check all of the moves in the movepool and stats. After, check the moves accuracy,power, and possible extra side/ effects.

Example1: I have seen a tank snorlax with the set, belly drum, substitute, focus punch, shadow ball. If it is a tank, how would stop anything with only 25% of its hp? Focus Punch is also a bad choice as with 25% hp left, It's natural to try it kill it off by attacking it, causing focus punch to fail even if it did survive the attack.

Example2: Agility + Metagross. Who ever thought up this combo is very smart. While meta has awsome attack but average speed, agility makes High attack + high speed = 6-0 sweep? Agility is very useful as what would double team do? Meta wouldnt get the proper boosts to sweep and maybe cause its downfall

Useless Moves

For the past week, i have seen multiple teams and suggestions that have Umbreon with Faint Attack and Ludicolo with Dive. First off: Umbreon. Look at umbreon's special attack. 60 base stat. Leftovers can basically heal up that attack within 2-3 turns. The set Mean look, c ray, toxic, rest/moonlight doesnt need faint attack does it? The moveset would be horrible by missing just 1 of the moves for some attack that can be healed up by leftovers.

Ludicolo. Dont have dive plain and simple. You might be thinking "but it can stall one turn so toxic and leech seed and rain dish and leftovers can take effect" well thats nice and all but whats stopping the pokemon from switching? causing leech seed and toxic to stop and you have to set up all over again. It would make sense if Ludicolo had whirlpool in the set to trap it but it cant learn it and 4 move max. Sorry.

Fly has the same reason as Ludicolo with Dive. It's asking for your opponent to switch. Plain and simple

Stats + Attacks

Before you go off deciding which pokes are going to be what type of sweeper, look at its stats first and movepool. Let's take Alakazam for example. It wouldn't make any sense putting physical attacks on it while its attack is horrible. Also, his movepool's only attacks that make him a suitable physical sweeper are all normal types and hidden power. Alakazam is more sui t for a special sweeper (135 base stat sp attack) then a physical sweeper (50 base stat attack)

Splitting Evs/ Splitting Attacks

It is very senseless if you have both a special attack a attack move in a same moveset. Example: a few threads ago, someone suggested earthquake on sceptile. Yes it covers fre pokemon, but then we have to put evs in Attack! That would cause it to take out special attack evs. Now if you want to replace the evs, you would have to either take evs from speed, or barely do any damage causing the reason why it would sweeper? Now if you took evs from speed, it would be to slow, causing it to get koed. Is it worth it to have a crappy sceptile just to cover fire types? I would just switch or try to ko it with Dragon Claw thank you.

Possible exceptions are Overheat on Arcanine, It doesnt need any Special attack evs while it gains stab which would give it 210 attack which would ko most pokes. Other exceptions are utility pokes who are specialy built to use the actual utility moves, not sweep and would do alot of damage anyways

Example: I have a venusaur with sludge bomb and razor leaf. Its main role is to sleep and leech and switch or attack. It isn't to sweep and evs balance it out so it can take hits and do @least some damage (unlike faint attack umbreon ^^^)

Sub Punchers are also exceptions to this rule. With the 150 power, Gengar, Alakazam, Ampharos, etc. could do heavy damage on Blissey and other pokes too.

PseudoHazers

In past threads I have seen people having Ninetales as a pseudo hazer. Ninetales isnt a proper p-hazer folks. Ninetales is to fragile and wouldnt survive Tyranitar's Earthquake. Before you go off giving off random pseudo hazer roles, check the pokemon's stats and which stat boosters it can actually p haze away. For example: I have Aggron. Very nice Defenese stats and is suit for a regular Attack booster stopper. Now lets see what it can stop. Aggron can stop Gardevoir, Alakazam, Zangoose, Linoone, Absol, etc.

You might be thinking "Ninetales can stop grass sweepers such as sunny beamers" well, no grass pokemon actually have stat boosters. Sunny beamers? Ninetales would have a better role annoying them by will o wisping + attract + c raying or rather hit them with flame thrower then p haze them and being more likely to switch when the new poke comes and in and with barely any hp, it cant p haze another poke.

Choice Band

Before you go off attaching some random physical sweeper choice band, be sure you know what it does.

Zangoose @ choice band
swords dance
etc...

The Item description of Choice Band is "A headband that raises Attack by 1.5x, disallows the use of all of the holding Pokemon's moves except the first it uses." according to netbattle. Now if zangoose can only you swords dance, how would it attack causing it to sweep? Read the description of the items before you go off attaching it to your competitive lineups.

Hyper Beam

Just dont use it. That includes frenzy plant, blast burn, and hydro cannon. I repeat, Dont use it. You'll most likely get flamed or questioned that you used those moves.

Healing Moves

They are useful. Even Moonlight, Morning sun, and Synthesis are good w/o the sunny day boost. If you disagree, I seriously have to think you're blind.

And Also...
Read the Team Building Thread. Its Helpful.
http://www.serebiiforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=9124

EV's

Whenever a Pokemon battles another Pokemon (except for link battles and battle tower) not only would it gain Experience Points, they would also get Effort Values. In the early levels of the pokemon, it wont get that many EV's. When it reaches the stage of high levels, It would gain EVs about +2 every stat(if your not EV training). You might be wondering how many EVs you get every level. Well you get a glimpse of how much you get right after you gain a level

Example:
Charmander Grew a Level!

+2 hp + 2 sp attack
+1attack +0 defense
etc. Then it shows the stats.

The maximum # of EVs you can have on one Pokemon is 510. The maximum # of EVs you can have on one stat is 255. Tip: The real maximum # of EVs you really should give a stat are 252 because 3 extra ev points wont raise the stat any more then when it was without the 3 points.

EV Training

RuSa(from the main site)

HP - Whismur - Cave on Route 106
Attack - Carvanha - Route 119 (Super Rod)
Defense - Sandshrew/Skarmory - Route 113
Special Attack - Spinda - Route 113
Special Defense - Tentacool - Almost Anywhere you can surf
Speed - Zubat/Golbat - Cave of Origin

FrLg/ these are the most common pokes that appear IMO so theyre easy to spot and a fairly high level (around 35)

HP - (for LG only) Slowpoke or Grimer
Attack - Goldeen or Gyarados (fish)
Defense - Tangela (they always appear south of pallet town so they dont seem rare)
Special Attack - Gastly/ Haunter
Special Defense - Tentacool/cruel
Speed - Zubat/Golbat

Personally, i dont EV train so if anybody got suggestions, feel free to post


Also: when training weaker pokemon who can't defend themselves enough to defeat wild pokemon and gain ev's, use the Exp. share and have a high level pokemon with ev's you don't care about up front until your pokemon in training can fend for itself and use the macho brace.

Ex: Training a chansey/blissey in special defense with an EXP. share on tentacools while Zapdos is with macho brace and is up front blasting them away

Macho Brace

When you attach a Macho Brace on to a Pokemon, its EV's after every battle are doubled. For example: I battle an Onix with my Venusaur. Now when i defeat it, I get 1 defense effort point on my Venusaur. If i had Macho Brace attached, it would have gotten 2 points, instead of one, speeding up the process of EV Training. The side effect is that it lowers your speed. It's a great combo with Trick

Pokerus

Pokerus has the exact same effect as Macho Brace. It doubles your Pokemon's Effort Points. If you have Pokerus and Macho Brace attached, you get 4X the Effort Points then usual. Using the Macho Brace example: Venusaur would get 4 points from battling onix when having Pokerus and Macho Brace instead of just 1 which is a HUGE boost.

How do you get Pokerus you ask? Well you have to battle a Wild Pokemon with Pokerus. When you heal the Pokemon that has Pokerus, Nurse Joy will notify you that you have Pokemon (main site for screen shots)

Pokerus can also spread to other pokemon in your party but is only temporary so i suggest you use it wisely

Where to put EVs

Ill organize this section within roles.

Sweepers: I will use Pika Power's example (scroll) with deoxys-f (attack). Now you might think "i better put defense and sp def and hp in deoxys as it has already high attack already" well no. Look at Deoxys-F's defense and hp and theyre horrible. Most likely it wont survive anything. So most likely, you would put the EVs in speed and attack/sp attack. Their are some exceptions about putting evs in speed like slowking and slowbro. As their speed is hard to work with, might as well put them in sp def/def/hp to attack and survive being hit first

Tanks: First of all, I would choose what type of tank it is, physical, special, or possibly both. The most important EVs you need to put in are its hp. Without hp, it wont survive much. Thats why shuckle is a bad tank (as i think chaos pointed out in another thread) I would suggest have 252 hp on a tank or atleast a high ammount. Next are its defensive EVs. Lets take Donphan for example; a wonderful Defense tank. You might think "it needs sp def as well cuz its def is already high enough" Nope. After dealing with your HP evs, pick which defense your going to pick. As Donphan will be a defensive tank, put the evs in defense. The same goes with a sp def tank. Max HP and rest in sp def. (There are some exceptions to this rule. Blissey, Mantine, and Regice dont need that many sp def evs since they already have massive Sp Def.) If your Tank doesnt have any attack moves, it simple enough to put ALL of its EVs in hp and the defenses but what if it has attack moves as well?

Lets take the same example (Donphan) as it can have Earthquake and Rock Slide for moves. You might want to take some EVs out of Defense and put them in attack. You might also want to consider putting some EV's in speed to outrun other Donphan or the same basestat speed.

If you choose to have a tank that covers both types, you might have a little trouble. I have Dusclops as a tank and my evs are EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 190 SDef and the nature is bold. As you can see, my EV's have max HP and some in sp def and def. If you have a tank that covers both types, i suggest not to have any attack moves except ofcourse night shade and seismic toss. The EV's and natures balance out the defenses to be equal. Now I dont have any sp./ attack evs so it wont effect the power of S Toss and NS which is very nice.

Baton Passers: This is very obvious. Put them in Speed, and Hp/Def/ & Sp Def. Ninjask is a different story. My EVs of Ninjask are 75 HP / 252 Atk / 183 Spd. EVs may vary for hp but as long as it has 1 hp left after 4 subs, its fine. Rest in speed and 252 Attack. Adamant is nature BTW.

Spiker: Most Spikers are Tanks so just use your tank set and put spikes as a move. For Example: Cloyster, Forretress, & Skarmory. All tanks.


Natures

Natures is very important to competitive battling. For the people who dont care, skip this part. To determine which Nature your pokemon should have, it really depends on their stats. Sweepers are usually + speed - one of the attacks. Tanks are - of the attacks + def/ sp def. Take experience from the stats part from the Stats + Attacks section of this thread. The formula of determining of how much boost the stat gets is (original stat) * .1 (rounded down) Then add the solution to the original stat. An easier way to do this is just add the first 2 numbers of the original stat to the original stat. Example: Marowak has the attack of 259. Now with Adamant (+ attack - sp attack) it is 25 + 259 which is 284

Here are what the natures do (in alphabetical order).
Note: + (Stat that's boosted), - (Stat that's decreased)

Adamant: + Attack - Sp Attack
Bashful: Neutral
Bold: + Defense, - Attack
Brave: + Attack, - Speed
Calm: + Sp Defense, - Attack
Careful: + Sp Attack, - Sp Defense
Docile: Neutral
Gentle: + Sp Defense, - Defense
Hardy: Neutral
Hasty: + Speed, - Defense
Impish: + Defense, - Sp Attack
Jolly: + Speed, - Sp Attack
Lax: + Defense, - Sp Defense
Lonely: + Attack, - Defense
Mild: + Sp Attack, - Defense
Modest: + Sp Attack, - Attack
Naive: + Speed, - Sp Defense
Naughty: + Attack, - Sp Defense
Quiet: + Sp Attack, - Speed
Quirky: Neutral
Rash: + Sp Attack, - Sp Defense
Relaxed: + Defense, - Speed
Sassy: + Sp Defense, - Speed
Serious: Neutral
Timid: + Speed, - Attack

Boosts

The formula for this section is all true except for the evasion part

-6 = 25% of original stat
-5 = 28.6% of original stat
-4 = 33.3% of original stat
-3 = 40% of original stat
-2 = 50% of original stat
-1 = 66.7% of original stat
+0 = 0.0% of original stat
+1 = 50% + original stat
+2 = 100% + original stat
+3 = 150% + original stat
+4 = 200% + original stat
+5 = 250% + original stat
+6 = 300% + original stat

Battling


The Pokemon and its Stats

Before you get good at battling, you might want to get to know more about the Pokemon before you go off battling experts and pros. Example: You might battle a snorlax with 150 HP left and you have a sceptile. You might think "oh one leaf blade will kill it off". It might it might not. Look at Snorlax's sp def stat and it is 110 base. Snorlax is a good tank and the user might put max sp def which might cause Leaf Blade to not ko Snorlax. Another reason that Leaf blade might not KO Snorlax is Sceptile might not have enough sp attack evs (scroll up for the where to put evs section) How much damage a Pokemon does is decided by its stats so you really need to basically memorize each stat of the Pokemon and add it with experience to determine if you think it will KO it or not.



Speed

Speed is one of the most important part of battling. Always keep that in mind. Especially for sweepers as most of them need speed to be able to do its role. You cannot always determine which Pokemon is faster just by base stats. You have to count how many EVs your opponent put in their Pokemon and their IVs and also their natures.
Lets take an example of Crobat (speed is 130 base stat and has max speed evs *359*) vs Electrode (speed is 140 base stat and has max speed evs *379*) You might think Electrode is faster then Crobat and will attack first. Well thats all dandy but lets check their natures. Electrode with the nature Modest (+ sp attack - attack) and Crobat with the nature Jolly (- sp attack + speed) Now their speeds would now be Electrode = 379/ Crobat = 394. Whos faster now? You really have to put in all the factors and which takes a long time and alot of experience to master.

*Alakazam*
198 Speed = Outspeeds 130 Base Spd Pokes after one Agility, two DD or a Swift Swim/Chlorphyll.

264 Speed = Outspeeds 130 Base Spd Pokes after one DD, or a Salac Berry. Agility/Swift Swim/Chlorphyll will outspeed all Pokémon that haven't used stat boosters. Note that the stat booster part includes Speed Boost.

130 Base Spd Pokes = Jolteon, Aerodactyl, Crobat, & Mewtwo to name a few.


Switching

Switching is very strategic and guessing your opponents next move. For example: Lets say you face a Gligar and you have a Swords danced Absol with barely any HP. You know that Absol is slower determining what EVs and nature you gave your Absol (if you read the first 2 sections of this battling section, youd understand). Youll think "i know ill switch to donphan!" Well thats a very nice choice to switch in a physical tank vs a physical sweepr. At first its a good idea but theres always the desision of your opponents move. What happens if Zangoose does swords dance or substitute? Then it has the chance of KOing your donphan which wouldnt be very nice while absol would have kod absol with a return attack. It all really depends on experience of you and your opponent.

You also have to think if your opponent switches as well. Lets say if you have a hitmonlee with brick break and hp ghost and you fight a raticate and you know your opponent has a gengar. When you do brick break, theyll switch in gengar. Then when you do HP Ghost, theyll switch back to raticate. This can be a decision to switch in someone that would be more effective vs gengar if you think theyll switch to it or somethin that is more effective vs hitmonlee or you can always guess if theyll switch again. All relies and experience again. Which attacks you choose will cary on to the next section of the battling section of this thread

Using Abilities When Switching *Controler of Flames*
Some Pokemon have very good effects that are best while switching, some of them are Water Absorb, Volt Absorb, Flash Fire, and Synchronize. How, say you have your charizard against a Manetric. Since Charizard is a flying your opponent will probably use thunderbolt. But switching to your Jolteon will gets its HP recovered. This strategy can also be used with Trace. Ex: You switch Gardevoir with Trace on Jolteon when it's using Thunderbolt.


Attacks

As the example states in the switching, you really have to guess if your opponent is switching or not but actually doing damage moves arent everything. Theres always the option of boosting, spikes, b passing, annoying, etc... You really need to start off reading the stats + attacks and useless moves section or put ur team in the rmt section to decide which moves to actually choose from. Mostly the whole battle depends on types. Especially which Pokemon you switch in and which move you do. Which attacks you do is 80% experience, 19% type, and 1% crap/luck.

I cant really help with you on deciding attacks because most of it relies on experience which i can't help with.



Magic Numbers
For more information about Magic numbers (How much speed you need to outrun jolteon/aero/crobat or how much sp attack you need to ko skarm with flamethrower/thunder bolt) go to http://www.smogon.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3369


If you have any suggestions or see any flaws about this thread, just post

Kari Kagome & Mewtwo
3rd January 2005, 1:20 AM
you mentioned stat boosts but not stat drops. I feel it's only proper to include it, so I'll save you the trouble.

-6 = 25% of original stat
-5 = 28.6% of original stat
-4 = 33.3% of original stat
-3 = 40% of original stat
-2 = 50% of original stat
-1 = 66.7% of original stat
0 = original stat
+1 = 150% of original stat
+2 = 200% of original stat
+3 = 250% of original stat
+4 = 300% of original stat
+5 = 350% of original stat
+6 = 400% of original stat

Not that anyone uses stat drops to begin with, except for cursers & intimidate

Mobbus
3rd January 2005, 5:31 PM
Might as well ask it here, considering it's a newb guide:

How much is a Chlorophyll/Swift Swim Pokemon's Speed raised while in their respective weather conditions? Doubled?

Xilion_Sword90
3rd January 2005, 9:30 PM
Doubled.

That's why Swift Swimmers and Chlorophyllershave only around 200 Speed.

'Fro-Dizzy
6th January 2005, 11:14 AM
It's 198 Speed needed to outspeed most things (except Electrode, Speed Deoxys and Ninjask). Rain Dance/Sunny Day soes double the Speed of Swift Swimmers and Chlorophyll pokemon.

'Fro-Dizzy
12th January 2005, 10:27 AM
Just clearing up the Rules/Stickies. Adding HT's Guide here:

Alright, this guy named "Banned" made a thread similar to this, but it was never completed and in my opinion, was a bit too dramatic. Therefore, I, HoundoomTrainer, am making a better thread than his. Any suggestions would be appreciated, but if you suggest that that I add Annoyers/Toxitrappers, then you can leave.

First of all, every Pokemon can be broken down into categories:

Sweepers
-Physical, Special, Mixed
Blockers
-Physical Walls, Special Sponges
Tanks
-Cursers, Calm Minders
Passers
-Baton Passers, Pseudo Passers
Hazers
-Hazers, Pseudo Hazers
Utlities
-Rapid Spinners, Spikers, Heal Bellers
Status Ailments

Sweepers

There are three kinds of Sweepers: Physical, Special, and Mixed. They are purely offensive and are the sometimes use stat boosters, if not get Baton Passed (later covered) powerups or use Choice Band (which they are then called CBers).

Physical Sweepers

Marowak@Thick Club
~Adamant; EVs: 252 Attack/HP, 6 Speed
~Rock Head
-Double Edge
-Earthquake/Bonemerang
-Rock Slide
-Swords Dance

This kind of Physical Sweeper uses Swords Dance to give itself more Attack power. It then sweeps accordingly. Marowak is also the kind of Pokemon that would get a Speed boost from a BPer like Ninjask Another example would be Tentacruel.

Tyranitar@Leftovers
~Adamant; EVs: 252 Attack, 170 Speed, 88 HP
~Sand Stream
-Dragon Dance
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Taunt

Labeled as the most effective Dragon Dancer, or DDer, Tyranitar uses DD to strengthen both Attack and Speed which allows it to sweep with ease, and uses Taunt to make sure the opponent can't use a move like Haze, Roar, or a status ailment to stop its sweep. More examples would be the obvious Salamence and Gyarados.

Heracross@Salac Berry
~Jolly; EVs: 252 Attack/Speed, 6 HP
~Swarm
-Endure/Substitute
-Reversal/Focus Punch
-Megahorn
-Earthquake/Rock Slide

Endure/Substitute-Reversaler. Uses either Endure or Sub to get to a very low HP, then uses Reversal. This also activates Swarm which boosts Bug-Type moves (like Megahorn) and Salac Berry to increase its Speed. He can also double as a Substitute-Puncher. More examples would be Kangaskhan and Scizor.

Tauros@Choice Band
~Jolly; EVs: 252 Attack/Speed, 6 HP
~Intimidate
-Return
-Earthquake
-Iron Tail
-HP Ghost/Fire Blast

Tauros is a Choice Bander, or CBer for short. CB makes any Physical move 1.5 times stronger, but only allows THAT move to be used. More examples of effective CBers are Aerodactyl and Medicham. If you'd care to notice, most Physical Sweepers get full Attack and either full Speed or HP.

Special Sweepers

Alakazam@Petaya Berry
~Timid; EVs: 252 Special Attack/Speed, 6 HP
~Synchronize
-Calm Mind
-Psychic
-Ice Punch/Thunder Punch
-Fire Punch/Thunder Punch

Calm Mind to raise both Special stats, then sweep. Switch out if a major weakness comes (like Tyranitar).

Starmie@Petaya
~Timid; EVs: 252 Special Attack/Speed, 6 HP
~Natural Cure
-Surf
-Psychic
-Ice Beam/Recover/Thunder Wave
-Thunderbolt/Recover/Thunder Wave

Starmie is a Special Sweeper that doesn't have a move that boosts its Special Attack stat. Its Special Attack stat is already high enough and as is its Speed where it can just full out sweep. Most Special Sweepers usually also get full Special Attack and either full Speed or HP. More examples would be Espeon and Magneton.

Mixed Sweepers

Dragonite@Leftovers
~Rash/Mild; EVs: 85 Attack, 225 Speed, 200 Special Attack
~Inner Focus
-Substitute
-Focus Punch
-Thunderbolt
-Ice Beam

If you could care to notice, this is a "SkarmBliss" counter and also a SubPuncher. Uses Substitute to get a Focus Punch in and uses "BoltBeam," a combo of Thunderbolt and Ice Beam.

Arcanine@Leftovers
~Naughty/Lonely; EVs: 252 Attack, 129 HP/Special Attack
~Intimidate
-Howl
-Extremespeed
-HP Fighting/HP Ghost
-Flamethrower/Fire Blast

Uses Howl to boost Extremespeed and its Physical Hidden Power, and uses its STABed Fire move. Also used as a "SkarmBliss" counter. Swampert also makes a nice Mixed Sweeper.

Blockers

There are two kinds of Blockers: Physical Walls and Special Sponges. They have either have high Defense or Special Defense, and sometimes high HP. And the majority of them double as Utilities and P/Hazers.

Physical Walls

Skarmory@Leftovers
~Impish; EVs: 252 HP/Defense, 6 Attack
~Sturdy
- Spikes
- Roar
- Drill Peck
- Toxic/Rest

Hah, who DIDN'T see this coming? Most likely the most popular Physical Wall of them all, that is also used to Spike and to Pseudo-Haze with Roar. 140 base Defense.

Weezing@Leftovers
~Impish; EVs: 252 HP, 126 Defense/Attack, 6 Speed
~Levitate
-Will-O-Wisp
-Sludge Bomb
-Rest/Pain Split/Explosion
-Fire Blast/Haze

Oh look another popular Physical Wall. Also uses WoW to dull Physical Sweeper's Attack stat and Haze to eliminate stat boosts. Fire Blast in case Skarm decides to ruin the fun. More Physical Walls would include Donphan (Rapid Spin), Steelix (Roar), and Forretress (Spikes and Rapid Spin). Physical Walls also may have Counter.

Special Sponges

Blissey@Leftovers
~Bold/Impish; EVs: 252 HP, 252 Defense, 6 Special Defense
~Natural Cure
- Thunder Wave/Toxic
- Heal Bell/Aromatherapy
- Softboiled
- Seismic Toss

The dreaded Blissey, paired up with a Skarmory in the same team is known as "SkarmBliss" and anyone who clauses it is stupid. Blissey is also a Utility making use of Heal Bell/Aromatherapy. It uses either Toxic or Thunder Wave, and sometimes Ice Beam for Gengars. Seismic Toss does 100 damage at level 100 and doesn't require Attack, which Blissey lacks. 255 base HP (highest in game) and 135 Special Defense. People also put Defense EVs so it can survive a Fighting move and then use Counter to KO the other Pokemon.

Vaporeon@Leftovers
~Calm/Modest/Bold; EVs: 252 HP, 216 Defense, 42 Special Attack
~Water Absorb
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Wish
-Toxic/Haze

Vaporeon is also good as a Wall to stop DDing Salamences, and then using Ice Beam to KO them. Can also use Haze, and Baton Pass as well. Surf has STAB which is always good and 2KOs Tyranitar. Base 130 HP, 95 Special Defense and 60 Defense. Other Special Sponges include Venusaur (Leech Seed), Mantine, and a few others. Special Sponges also may have Mirror Coat.

'Fro-Dizzy
12th January 2005, 10:28 AM
Tanks

Tanks come in as either Cursers or Calm Minders. They raise their Defenses while increasing their Attack stats as well. They are a mix of both Sweepers and Blockers. They usually have both high HP/Defenses and Attack stats.

Cursers

Snorlax@Leftovers
~Adamant; EVs: 252 Attack/HP, 6 Speed
~Immunity/Thick Fat
-Curse
-Rest
-Return/Body Slam
-Shadow Ball

Curselax. Uses Curse to boost its Attack and Defense, then uses Rest to regain health. Shadow Ball covers Ghost types. Sometimes Fire Blast is thrown in for Skarmory. Base HP of 160, base Attack of 110, base Defense of 65 (raised by Curse) and base Special Defense of 110. Very popular Tank.

Swampert@Leftovers/Chesto Berry
~Impish/Careful/Brave; EVs: 252 HP, 129 Attack/Special Defense
~Torrent
-Curse
-Earthquake
-Ice Beam/Rock Slide/Surf
-Rest

Cursepert. You want Special Defense EVs in there so it can survive a non-STABed HP Grass. HP EVs because the base HP is 100, with a 110 base Attack, and 90 base Defenses. Other Cursers include Muk and the Regi's.

Calm Minders

Slowbro@Leftovers
~Modest; EVs: 252 HP, 129 Defense/Special Attack
~Oblivious/Own Tempo
-Calm Mind
-Psychic
-Ice Beam/Flamethrower
-Rest

Very nice UU Calm Minding Tank. It uses Calm Mind to boost its Specials, and has a base Defense of 110 which means it can take Physical hits as well. How awesome is that? Rest so it recovers and two Special moves.

Suicune@Leftovers
~Timid; EVs: 252 HP, 129 Defense, 129 Special Attack
~Pressure
-Calm Mind
-Surf
-Ice Beam/Roar
-Rest

Don't tell me this WASN'T as obvious as Blissey or Skarmory. Most popular CM Tank. Very good HP (110 Base) and both Defenses being at a base of 115, it's prefered over Vaporeon by a lot. Venusaur counters it though. Makes a nice Phazer too.

Passers

Baton Passers pass on stat boosts and Substitute (and Leech Seed too unfortunately, Ingrain, Mean Look, and can also be used to "Wishpass") to another Pokemon of your team. This is mostly used with Ninjask, who is easily countered by the way. Pseudo Passing is when the first Pokemon uses a move such as Light Screen and/or Reflect and then switches out to another Pokemon who sets up for their attack. They emphasize in stats that they are the best in.

Baton Passers

Ninjask@Liechi
~Adamant/Jolly; EVs: 252 Attack/Speed, 6 HP
~Speed Boost
-Substitute/Protect
-Swords Dance
-Silver Wind
-Baton Pass

Uses Substitute/Protect for a free Speed Boost to raise Speed and uses Sword Dance to sharply raise its Attack, then Baton Passes it to a Physical Sweeper (like Marowak). Silver Wind is nice to KO an Alakazam with.

Espeon@Lum Berry
~Timid; EVs: 252 Speed, 138 Special Attack, 120 HP
~Synchronize
- Baton Pass
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Psychic

Uses Substitute to protect itself from status ailments, and then Calm Minds up, using Psychic to sweep, and Baton Passes to another Special Sweeper or Special Sponge. It can be used as a Special Sponge as well. Dual roles. Has nice Speed and Special stats.

Pseudo Passers

Claydol@Leftovers
~Impish/Careful; EVs: 252 HP, 126 Defense/126 Special Defense, 6 Attack/Special Attack
~Levitate
-Rapid Spin
-Explosion
-Cosmic Power/Light Screen/Earthquake/Ice Beam
-Rest/Reflect/Earthquake/Ice Beam

It uses Reflect/Light Screen to temporary raise its Defenses and then switches to another Pokemon, or uses an attack move, or even Rest if it has to. Can also be a Utility with Rapid Spin. Pseudo Passers always have mixed stats.

Hazers and Utilities

These two always have dual roles and have already been talked about.

Hazers and Pseudo Hazers

Some Hazers are:

Weezing
Vaporeon
Blastoise

Some Pseudo Hazers (Phazers) are:

Skarmory
Suicune
Steelix
Donphan

Utilities

Some Rapid Spinners are:

Donphan
Claydol
Forretress

Some Spikers are:

Skarmory
Forretress

Some Heal Bellers are:

Blissey
Miltank
Celebi

I'd also like to cover the Status Ailments:

Paralysis-Has a 50% chance your move may have to skip a turn for attacking, and halves Speed. The Ability LIMBER prevents it. You're always Paralyzed unless you either use a berry, or use Heal Bell/Aromatherapy.

Freeze-Much like Sleep, but has a better chance to unfreeze (especially when using a Fire move or Sunny Day is in effect); you're unable to attack for 1-5 turns. The Ability MAGMA ARMOR prevents it. A berry or Heal Bell/Aromatherapy will also cure this.

Poison-No stat is reduced, however, you will lose 1/16 of your total HP per turn, or it will intesify each turn if you are Poisoned from the move Toxic. The Ability IMMUNITY prevents this, and Poison types cannot be Poisoned, and Steel types can only be Poisoned through Secret Power or Twineedle. You will always be Poisoned unless you faint, use a berry, or use Heal Bell/Aromatherapy.

Burn-Your Attack stat is halved, and you will lose 1/16 of your total HP per turn. Fire types cannot be Burned, and Pokemon with the WATER VEIL Ability cannot be Burned either. You're always Burned unless you either use a berry, or use Heal Bell/Aromatherapy.

Confusion-Not a real status condition, for some odd reason, but it will wear off in 1-5 turns, and has a 50% chance that you may have to skip a turn for attacking, and hurts yourself when you do skip that turn, reducing your HP by 1/16. OWN TEMPO is an Ability that prevents it. Switch to take it off. A berry also prevents this.

Sleep-The Pokemon is put asleep, unable to attack for 2-5 turns. That's basically it. Sleep Talk and Snore can be used while asleep, but no other attack. INSOMNIA prevents this, as does a berry, and can be cured by Heal Bell/Aromatherapy.

Attraction-Pokemon becomes infatuated and has a 50% chance that it will not attack. Not a real status condition. Switch to take it off. OBLIVIOUS prevents this. Switch to take it off. Only affect the OPPOSITE gender (no homosexuality in Pokemon).

SHED SKIN has a 30% chance to remove a status ailment (Sleep, Burn, Paralysis and Poison).

NATURAL CURE cures your Pokemon of the real status ailments (Sleep, Burn, Paralysis and Poison) when you switch out.

Certain Abilities also CAUSE these things:

STATIC for Paralysis
POISON POINT for Poison
FLAME BODY for Burn
CUTE CHARM for Attraction
EFFECT SPORE for Paralysis, Poison or Sleep

Also some other conditions are: Sunny Day, Rain Dance, Sandstorm, Hail, and Spikes, which affect the ENTIRE team.

And that's all folks.

Any questions/comments may be posted here intelligently.

Kokukirin
13th January 2005, 4:06 AM
I think paralyzation reduces poke's speed to 1/4 of original.

Confusion does not take away 1/16 of HP, I think it depends on the poke's attack and def stats.

Freeze status can go away at the same turn the poke freezes. I've seen that quite a few times on NB.

Jshadias
14th January 2005, 12:35 AM
Useless Moves

For the past week, i have seen multiple teams and suggestions that have Umbreon with Faint Attack and Ludicolo with Dive. First off: Umbreon. Look at umbreon's special attack. 60 base stat. Leftovers can basically heal up that attack within 2-3 turns. The set Mean look, c ray, toxic, rest/moonlight doesnt need faint attack does it? The moveset would be horrible by missing just 1 of the moves for some attack that can be healed up by leftovers.

That moveset is horrible anyways, it completely fails against anything immune to toxic or with Rest. The only good Umbreon is one with Taunt.


Ludicolo. Dont have dive plain and simple. You might be thinking "but it can stall one turn so toxic and leech seed and rain dish and leftovers can take effect" well thats nice and all but whats stopping the pokemon from switching? causing leech seed and toxic to stop and you have to set up all over again. It would make sense if Ludicolo had whirlpool in the set to trap it but it cant learn it and 4 move max.
Whirlpool and similar moves are just horrible, and that set loses to a lot of other stuff anyways. Also you could use Leech Seed/Toxic/Dive/Whirlpool (assuming you wanted to lose).


Stats + Attacks

Before you go off deciding which pokes are going to be what type of sweeper, look at its stats first and movepool. Let's take Alakazam for example. It wouldn't make any sense putting physical attacks on it while its attack is horrible. Also, his movepool's only attacks that make him a suitable physical sweeper are all normal types and hidden power. Alakazam is more sui t for a special sweeper (135 base stat sp attack) then a physical sweeper (50 base stat attack)
You should explain that there are good (and also standard) movesets that utilize a lower attacking stat.


Splitting Evs/ Splitting Attacks

It is very senseless if you have both a special attack a attack move in a same moveset. Example: a few threads ago, someone suggested earthquake on sceptile. Yes it covers fre pokemon, but then we have to put evs in Attack! That would cause it to take out special attack evs. Now if you want to replace the evs, you would have to either take evs from speed, or barely do any damage causing the reason why it would sweeper? Now if you took evs from speed, it would be to slow, causing it to get koed. Is it worth it to have a crappy sceptile just to cover fire types? I would just switch or try to ko it with Dragon Claw thank you.
What use is Dragon Claw on Sceptile =/


Possible exceptions are Overheat on Arcanine, It doesnt need any Special attack evs while it gains stab which would give it 210 attack which would ko most pokes.
* would KO most pokes weak to the attack.


Hyper Beam

Just dont use it. (except for slaking ;-))
Hyper Beam Slaking is stupid, it gives your opponent a free turn which is pretty much always a terrible thing to do.

Cromat
14th January 2005, 1:54 PM
Suicune@Leftovers
~Timid; EVs: 252 HP, 129 Defense, 129 Special Attack
~Pressure
-Calm Mind
-Surf
-Ice Beam/Roar
-Rest

Don't tell me this WASN'T as obvious as Blissey or Skarmory. Most popular CM Tank. Very good HP (110 Base) and both Defenses being at a base of 115, it's prefered over Vaporeon by a lot. Venusaur counters it though. Makes a nice Phazer too.

Suicune's base HP is 100 not 110 but nvm that. It doesn't need that much Sp.Atk. And btw Crocune beats Venusaur and Milotic one on one :).


Claydol@Leftovers
~Impish/Careful; EVs: 252 HP, 126 Defense/126 Special Defense, 6 Attack/Special Attack
~Levitate
-Rapid Spin
-Explosion
-Cosmic Power/Light Screen/Earthquake/Ice Beam
-Rest/Reflect/Earthquake/Ice Beam

It uses Reflect/Light Screen to temporary raise its Defenses and then switches to another Pokemon, or uses an attack move, or even Rest if it has to. Can also be a Utility with Rapid Spin. Pseudo Passers always have mixed stats.

I really dislike Explosion on Claydol. It doesn't deal too much damage (only about 450 to Blissey iirc) and leaves you without a spinner.

Mobbus
14th January 2005, 4:19 PM
Hyper Beam Slaking is stupid, it gives your opponent a free turn which is pretty much always a terrible thing to do.
With Traunt, doesn't every attack on a Slaking give a free turn?

EDIT: Read Alakazam's response.

Alakazam
14th January 2005, 10:22 PM
But with Hyper Beam, you can't switch out to say, a tank on the turn that you're truanting.

klducks
16th January 2005, 6:26 PM
I think paralyzation reduces poke's speed to 1/4 of original.

Confusion does not take away 1/16 of HP, I think it depends on the poke's attack and def stats.

Freeze status can go away at the same turn the poke freezes. I've seen that quite a few times on NB.

true...true... and TRUE


You should explain that there are good (and also standard) movesets that utilize a lower attacking stat.

good idea


What use is Dragon Claw on Sceptile =/

in game = no hidden power and i made this before anyone found out about the emerald move tutors so its either that or crunch... just an example =\


Hyper Beam Slaking is stupid, it gives your opponent a free turn which is pretty much always a terrible thing to do.

meh....

and fro.. you just spammed up this whole page w/ that post... lol

Mobbus
28th January 2005, 2:10 AM
Do Pokemon like Aerodactyl and Crobat need Choice Band to be useful, or can they still work without it?

Netbattle
28th January 2005, 5:12 PM
Yes, Hazing Crobat sucks, as does pressure stalling aero

Cipher Admin Anti-Shipping
29th January 2005, 1:41 AM
Who the heck tries to utilize Pressure on Aero anyway, its 130 speed and 100 attack would basically be screaming at you for them to be used

Kokukirin
29th January 2005, 3:56 AM
Actually, if somehow you dont have Double-Edge in your moveset (like having Fire Blast over it...?), Pressure is a superior trait to use.

Controller of Flames
30th January 2005, 2:14 AM
New guide on common sense

(Man for someone who doesn't do much competitive battling I make guides for it O_0 )
_________________
Common Sense

Most newbie’s who are very new to competitive battling might have this type of moveset on a Charizard, Flamethrower, Blast Burn, Slash, and Fire Blast. This may be semi usefull in the game, but ting this on netbattle will result in major defeat. Why, three fire attacks Blast Burn's horrible accuracy and it will you open next turn, slash is useless compared to return. Charizard's main weakness is water electric and rock. With earthquake all electric pokemon (except Zapdos) and almost every rock pokemon (Solrock and Lunatone with levitate) is taken down. Some TM’s that are available to many pokemon are Earthquake, Aterial Ace, Brick Brake, and Ice Beam, and Return.

But Controller of Flames I don’t have the TM for type coverage so what am I supposed to do?

Yes the above message might be in your head right now, well go to a video rental store rent a pokemon game, transfer a good pokemon onto it. Even if it doesn’t obey it should be easy to beat the game in at least three days (or more depending on your homework and personal stuff). Also some TM’s can be found in the department store and the casino.

Mobbus
30th January 2005, 5:00 PM
Yes, Hazing Crobat sucks, as does pressure stalling aero
I didn't necessarily mean different move sets for them, just if their main sets could work without Choice Band.

Netbattle
30th January 2005, 6:34 PM
Crobats attack would be too low to ohko the stuff it needs to, same with aero

Cipher Admin Anti-Shipping
30th January 2005, 9:38 PM
They both have inredible speed but a little bit too low attack, and this is when they turn to CB for help

HoundoomTrainer
14th February 2005, 2:03 AM
Uber list:

Mewtwo, Lugia, Ho-oh, Rayquaza, Kyogre, Groudon, Latios, Latias, Deoxys (all forms), Wobbuffet.

Debateable:

Mew, Celebi, Jirachi

'Fro-Dizzy
14th February 2005, 10:35 PM
Also, Wynaut is banned from most tournaments.


(is normal member)

Mr.Internet
20th February 2005, 2:53 PM
Annoyers
Many SPPers are using this term for Pokemon with Toxic, Sleep Powder or Leech Seed, or stupid moves such as Attract, Fire Spin and Wrap (Wrap Milotic gogogo)
But the cold, hard truth is, annoyers don't exist. No Pokemon is used for the sole purpose of annoying the oppenent. Pokemon such as Chaosbreon (Taunt/Mean Look/Baton Pass/Moonlight Umbreon) or McSceptile (Leaf Blade, HP Ice, Substitute, Leech Seed Sceptile) are way more annoying than Pokemon that are created just to "annoy" the oppenent. Thunder Wave and Sleep Powder are just support moves, Confuse Ray doesn't work in RS's hit or die metagame, same goes with Attract. Wrap and Fire Spin are a waste of a moveslot except on Shuckle, which is a waste of a slot on a team. Plus, most Pokemon that get those moves don't have good Defenses/Type (Ninetales, Crobat) or are better off with a different set (Crobat, Dusclops). Sure, they might work if you're lucky, but why use something that CAN work instead of something that WILL work?
Also why did I write this, annoyers don't exist and whoever claims otherwise is stupid (Including whoever wrote Serebii.net's competitive battling section, it should be removed asap). Period.

WitchKing_Ringwraith
24th February 2005, 7:11 AM
Good guide, hopefully we will see less Charizard sets with fire blast, heat wave, blast burn, and overheat.

Overheat is actually the best option on Jolly Charizard w/ 252 attack/speed evs. Flamethrower wouldn't do crap in that instance.

Groudon80
24th February 2005, 4:21 PM
Yeah, but on that set, with four fire moves. Remember that overheat will harshly lower special attack.

WitchKing_Ringwraith
24th February 2005, 11:03 PM
You'll probably only need it once per battle on average anyway, for Steel/Ice types.

Groudon80
25th February 2005, 4:51 AM
Who said using white herb for OH? thats pretty dumb. I hate all items that are onetime use only. They are a waste, and I am too lazy to replace them. Are pinch berries like that though?

Kokukirin
25th February 2005, 5:28 AM
Salac, Petaya and Liechi are used at times. Most of the time I just go with Leftovers though. I used to use Lum berry sometimes as well.

White Herb is ok. It is mainly for Curse passing though.

Powerful_Blaziken88
17th March 2005, 8:24 PM
But with Hyper Beam, you can't switch out to say, a tank on the turn that you're truanting.
Um, Slaking has 150 base HP, and 100 base defense. That means as long as the incomming pokemon isn't a Kyogre or another such extremely powerful special sweeper, Slaking can take a hit and ohko that pokemon as well. Sometimes Kyogre doesn't even ohko my slaking. The one on colosseum mode Mt. battle 100th battle used hydro pump against me (rain dance wasn't taken away) and it didn't even KO me. And I think I was already hit by Crobat's sludge bomb. Get this: Kyogre's standard move is surf, and a hydro pump didn't faint me. That means hyper beam slaking works.

Hey Micky!
17th March 2005, 8:29 PM
Um, Slaking has 150 base HP, and 100 base defense. That means as long as the incomming pokemon isn't a Kyogre or another such extremely powerful special sweeper, Slaking can take a hit and ohko that pokemon as well.
It can OHKO with Return anyway. Massive Attack + CB = No need for Hyber Beam.

The ability to switch out is very nice. Also, "Medicham + CB + Pure Power + Focus Punch/Brick Break" = "Fainted Slaking". Same thing applies with CB Heracrosses and other CB Fighting types.

Also, you give other Pokemon an opportunity to set up.

Finally, why let Slaking get hurt in the 1st place when you can let it go unharmed...

Powerful_Blaziken88
17th March 2005, 8:38 PM
right, but the main point is, hyper beam Slaking does work unlike hyper beam
Salamence. That's what this guide was made for, newbs. Since we're not newbs (or noobs), further "arguing" should be in another thread or other methods. I'm happy to present my points, but this ain't the right place.

Now on topic: Nice guide. Hopefully most newbies will get used to these things before they get too attached to their hyperbeam/blast burn/overheat/slash Charizards (random example). I'll admit, I was a newb once, and had terrible movesets. But when I came here, I learned just how bad dragon dance/hyperbeam kingdra was. Well at least I used stat upping moves, some people I knew didn't...

Rudoku
17th March 2005, 11:06 PM
The one on colosseum mode Mt. battle 100th battle used hydro pump against me (rain dance wasn't taken away) and it didn't even KO me.
That Kyorge sucks. It's slow and doesn't have good IVs. I beat it with my injured Porygon 2 if that gives you an idea of how weak it is (granted it did get a CH Thunderbolt on it, but that was payback). The only good ones are in the Orre Colosseum, and thats only because at least one of those are Timid with max Speed (or at least higher than 296 speed).

WitchKing_Ringwraith
18th March 2005, 7:56 AM
Now on topic: Nice guide. Hopefully most newbies will get used to these things before they get too attached to their hyperbeam/blast burn/overheat/slash Charizards (random example).

Sigh... -.-


Overheat is actually the best option on Jolly Charizard w/ 252 attack/speed evs. Flamethrower wouldn't do crap in that instance.

Hyper Beam Charizards belong in the RMT 1st Gen, if that. :/

klducks
18th March 2005, 8:49 AM
Overheat is actually the best option on Jolly Charizard w/ 252 attack/speed evs. Flamethrower wouldn't do crap in that instance.
wth?

Skarmory (flamethrower)
Minimum Damage 328
Average Damage 357
Maximum Damage 386

1-2 ko (95% of the time, its 1 ko)

Weezing (flamethrower)
Minimum Damage 168
Average Damage 182
Maximum Damage 197

2ko

Weezing (overheat)
Minimum Damage 246
Average Damage 268
Maximum Damage 289

2ko

and charizard only needs 20 sp attack evs w/ jolly nature to OHKO skarmory w/ flamethrower...

umm... WHAT?

WitchKing_Ringwraith
19th March 2005, 1:49 AM
and charizard only needs 20 sp attack evs w/ jolly nature to OHKO skarmory w/ flamethrower...

umm... WHAT?

Opps. Sorry 'bout that. -.-

Happy Library
24th March 2005, 7:40 PM
I have a questionif I wanted to raise a pokemon's Hp EV without using a Macho Brace or having the PokeRus how many would I have to fight 252 or more?

Rudoku
24th March 2005, 9:02 PM
I have a questionif I wanted to raise a pokemon's Hp EV without using a Macho Brace or having the PokeRus how many would I have to fight 252 or more?
152, if you're smart enough to use 10 HP Ups beforehand. But that's stupid.

Happy Library
25th March 2005, 12:54 AM
So if I use 10 Hp up's first I will only have to fight the pokemon 152 times? At any level?

Cipher Admin Anti-Shipping
26th March 2005, 11:42 PM
Well..

some pokes give more than 1, so it varies

Groudon80
26th March 2005, 11:51 PM
Yeah, but what moron would not use an easy to get item such as macho brace?

Cipher Admin Anti-Shipping
27th March 2005, 12:05 AM
him?

why wouldnt he anyway it would go down to has less as only 25 pokes

Basics
10th July 2005, 6:10 PM
Hyper Beam

Just dont use it. That includes frenzy plant, blast burn, and hydro cannon. I repeat, Dont use it. You'll most likely get flamed or questioned that you used those moves.

Hyper Beam Slaking OHKO's Suicune, kthx.

klducks
10th July 2005, 7:26 PM
Hyper Beam Slaking OHKO's Suicune, kthx.
Minimum Damage 372
Average Damage 404
Maximum Damage 437

252 attack, CBed, +attack nature vs a suicune with ONLY 80 DEF EVS. And half the time, it doesnt ohko it at all.

Minimum Damage 298
Average Damage 324
Maximum Damage 350

both 2 ko unless if the suicune has 80 (or less) def evs.

+ all that crap about not being able to switch and bleh bleh. kthx(<-lame)

Basics
10th July 2005, 11:31 PM
I admt I was wrong. However, while Hyper Beam is typically not that great over Return, but I mean, its been on some of the greatest Pokemon ever. Fish even used it with his 'Lax.
Snorlax
- Hyper Beam
- Body Slam
- Surf
- Selfdestruct

Edit: A few more things...

"It is very senseless if you have both a special attack a attack move in a same moveset."

I knew Boah sucked! At least point out a better example than Arcanine.


"The same goes with a sp def tank. Max HP and rest in sp def. If your Tank doesnt have any attack moves, it simple enough to put ALL of its EVs in hp and the defenses"

Ah, so you mean giving Blissey 252 Def + Bold so that its resistance to physical attacks is almost doubled is a bad idea? It really needs to be able to survive more than 6 non-boosted special attacks without Recovering? I wish I'd known! Excuse the sarcasticness, but you get my drift.

klducks
11th July 2005, 1:51 AM
I admt I was wrong. However, while Hyper Beam is typically not that great over Return, but I mean, its been on some of the greatest Pokemon ever. Fish even used it with his 'Lax.
Snorlax
- Hyper Beam
- Body Slam
- Surf
- Selfdestruct
hyperbeam rocks in RBY (where there was no return)


"It is very senseless if you have both a special attack a attack move in a same moveset."

I knew Boah sucked! At least point out a better example than Arcanine.
If you look through the thread, Jshadias sorta already suggested that, but I was too lazy to add it in. And when i made this thread, Boah wasn't made "famous". So there werent that many sub punchers to deal with so I just chose arcanine.


"The same goes with a sp def tank. Max HP and rest in sp def. If your Tank doesnt have any attack moves, it simple enough to put ALL of its EVs in hp and the defenses"

Ah, so you mean giving Blissey 252 Def + Bold so that its resistance to physical attacks is almost doubled is a bad idea? It really needs to be able to survive more than 6 non-boosted special attacks without Recovering? I wish I'd known! Excuse the sarcasticness, but you get my drift.
Blissey is an exception to this rule. Also Regice and Mantine are some of the exceptions. I should add that in =\ *gets off my ****

Basics
11th July 2005, 5:42 AM
Hyper Beam is still not necessarilly bad. For what its worth: A Snorlax with 300 Atk (which is fairly generous for Curselax) and a +1 Boost from Curse can use Return against 186 Def Heracross, which will have 323 HP. It does:
Minimum Damage 267
Average Damage 290
Maximum Damage 313
This allows Heracross to Swords Dance-Endure-Reversal for a possible sweep. If you used Hyper Beam, this problem would be averted.

Edit: ****, OK. Hyper Beam does have its uses. It's not completely worthless.

Hey Micky!
11th July 2005, 6:00 AM
Hyper Beam is still not necessarilly bad. For what its worth: A Snorlax with 300 Atk (which is fairly generous for Curselax) and a +1 Boost from Curse can use Return against 186 Def Heracross, which will have 323 HP. It does:
Minimum Damage 267
Average Damage 290
Maximum Damage 313
This allows Heracross to Swords Dance-Endure-Reversal for a possible sweep. If you used Hyper Beam, this problem would be averted.

Edit: ****, OK. Hyper Beam does have its uses. It's not completely worthless.
It's worth is situational (which has been established before). Don't let newbeeis run off thinking that shoving Hyper Beam on every damn Poke in their team is a good idea. There's tonnes of things that work situationally, like HP Flying TTar (I'm sure it was you who pointed that out). It's gonna work agaisnt a select few things but in the long run the standard is better. In Tar's case having Taunt > HP Flying is better, in Hyper Beam's case having Return is better.

/me hopes the newbies understood that

chaos on the internet
11th July 2005, 6:24 AM
Since there is alot of stat calculations apparently in this thread, you all might find this topic useful:

http://www.smogon.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3369

It's an indepth study of EV placements- shows calcuations of how much damage certain attacks do to pokemon with certain ev placements.

Basics
11th July 2005, 11:23 PM
Well, my point is that Return is not infinitely superior to Hyper Beam. However, I am thinking that you are right; this is a noobs guide and Hyper Beam vs Return probably belongs in a more advanced thread.

Powerful_Blaziken88
14th July 2005, 2:03 AM
They are useful. Even Moonlight, Morning sun, and Synthesis are good w/o the sunny day boost. If you disagree, I seriously have to think you're blind.

Would you mind changing the last part of that line? I'm blind and it sounds pretty offensive, sorry if it wasn't supposed to be, but can you change it? Thanks.

Blackjack Gabbiani
28th August 2005, 10:21 AM
OK, I've got a really newbie question...what the heck is "Boah" and why does everyone swear by it?

aipomkong
28th August 2005, 11:07 AM
it is

Crunch/Substitute/Focus Punch/Thunderbolt Tyranitar, with 404 HP

Blackjack Gabbiani
28th August 2005, 8:56 PM
Why the heck is that called Boah then?

Darkeggy
28th August 2005, 9:07 PM
Ask Chaos/Jumpman. They made up the name. Apparently it's german for WOAH.

Kokichi
29th August 2005, 10:21 AM
I always thought it was because a Boah is like...a killer...

≈*Virulent Tsunami*≈
29th August 2005, 11:40 AM
Correct, Kokichi. Boah is a killer, and a killer especially made for beating SkarmBliss. IIRC, Substitute will only fade is the foe does more than 1/4's worth of damage to you. With max HP, Boah's Substitute will not be broken by Seismic Toss from Blissey, nor will it be harmed by Ice Beam(option over T-Wave on Blissey). Boah can freely Focus Punch Blissey, which, IIRC, will do roughly ~80% damage to standard Blissey. Next turn, Blissey will break the Sub(or more likely, Switch, realizing that it's doomed), but it won't mess up Tyranitar's focus, meaning that it can finish off Blissey with Focus Punch. And, some newbs will put all their EVs into Sp. Defense, meaning that Focus Punch will simply OHKO Blissey, and give Tyranitar a turn to mess up whatever comes next. Boah also 2HKOs Skarmory with Thunderbolt. Normally, it's unwise to use Substitute on that turn, seeing as every Standard Skarmory has Roar or Whirlwind, meaning that it will use that and you'll have just wasted 1/4 of your HP. But if you can Paralyze Skarmory and ParaHax comes into effect, you'll be able to finish it next turn. It's a great Pokémon to have, seeing as those two are commonly seen on NetBattle.

For a bit of personal experience: Whenever I see a Blissey, I switch to Boah. Usually, Blissey will have appeared to Aromatherapy/Heal Bell away the effects on the rest of its team. Make sure it's for that reason, because if it came out to Wall one of your Sp. Sweepers, it'll use Thunder Wave and mess Boah up. Use Substitute, and let Blissey do what it wants. If Blissey doesn't switch, kill it with Focus Punch. If it switches, let the Focus Punch intended for it hit your foe, and use whatever other move is in your arsenal to hurt whatever the switch in is. Building off that, on my Boah, I've chosen Ice Beam over Crunch. It may lose STAB, but it will always OHKO Standard Salamence(assuming you survive it, and if Salamence isn't holding a Choice Band, you should be able to survive). It also OHKOs Rayquazas which manage to sneak into OU teams(you'd be surprised how many people put an 00ber or two in their team). You won't do as much damage to Lati@s as you could with Crunch, but it will still do some heavy damage. Plus, you have the element of surprise on your side here. Most people would expect you to have Crunch, and send out something to Wall that move. Well, you can shoot 'em with Ice Beam and laugh in their faces. Indeed, Dugtrio will sometimes come out to trap Boah and OHKO it. Well, if you can predict a Switch-in, give it an Ice Beam and watch it die before your eyes. And lastly, this gives you a BoltBeam combo, which, as we all know, will do at least neutral damage, oftentimes Super effective, to anything that's name isn't Lanturn or Magneton. For them, you have Focus Punch to hit hard on Magneton and do decent damage to Lanturn.

For Blissey: To be effective, it has to have at least one attacking move to not be messed up by a Switch-in. Now, pretty much all the time, people choose Blissey as their Cleric and give it Aromatherapy, and have to choose between Ice Beam and Seismic Toss. I, however, choose to give a Celebi Heal Bell and make it my Cleric, and also give it Leech Seed to be a SeedStaller(with its great Defenses, it's quite effective). This leaves a spot open on my Blissey for the final move. This is also a good Salamence counter. Standard Blissey has as much Defense as it can get, so it should survive whatever Salamence uses(excluding Brick Break, but most people prefer Rock Slide/HP Flying), and then send a Ice Beam at it. It also messes up the rare but still present SpecialMence. Wall it and IB it. It also counters Gengar, who you'd have to switch out from had you chosen Seismic Toss exclusively. Now, if you would've chosen just Ice Beam, you'd be at the mercy of Kyogres(who are actually annoyingly common on OU teams. If you see the message about your foe having an 00ber, it will probably be Kyogre or Mewtwo), Suicunes. Sure, you can switch, but that would allow them a free KO/Calm Mind(and that last thing you want is a powered up version of those already deadly Water Types). With Seismic Toss as well, you'll be able to T-Wave(which is a good choice, and shouldn't be removed for Ice Beam is as the standard exception) them and steadily kill them with Seismic Toss(usually a 4HKO on Kyogre, IIRC). Without Seismic Toss, you'd have to sacrifice an entire team to try to take down those monsters. Seismic Toss will also dominate the rarely seen Shuckle, usually seen only being used by a newb who saw Lucy's in the Battle Pike. A 2HKO is guaranteed there, given Shuckle's pitiful HP. Whatever Shuckle does in that free turn will be of little concern(Natural Cure will negate the effects of Toxic). Blissey is a lot more versatile if it has both of these moves, IMO, and the combo is a worthy option over Aromatherapy(Blissey was made to Wall, Aromatherapy is just an added bonus it can live without). It may be Walled by Boah, but that's why Boah exists in the first place, so no need to worry about that.

Feel free to ignore the last two bits of my post, those are just my opinions(with a bit of fact mixed in:p). The first part on Boah is strictly factual and the only thing you should completely trust.


~*CB*~
The 8th Champion

Blackjack Gabbiani
29th August 2005, 11:59 AM
But again, why is it called Boah? Is the German thing true?

Final Fantasizer
29th August 2005, 12:30 PM
if you switch a pokemon with choiceband, can u choose a different attack?
if u switch a pokemon with status changes (calm mind etc) are they removed?
is a pokemons nature determined before you catch it (legendarys, eggs etc)?

leafgreen386
30th August 2005, 2:25 AM
Yes. Yes. And for the last one, do you really think that you could innitiate a battle with a poke without its Nature being set?

≈*Virulent Tsunami*≈
30th August 2005, 2:32 AM
if you switch a pokemon with choiceband, can u choose a different attack?

Yes. Choice Band is useful because of that. If your CBer is up against something it can't hurt because it already attacked with an attack that doesn't hurt the foe, switch out and in again to use the right move. if the Choice Band only let you use the one move the entire battle, it would be as NU as the Focus Band. The only time you'd ever use it with that effect would be against a theme team.]
And no, the Choice Band doesn't effect Special moves :(.


if u switch a pokemon with status changes (calm mind etc) are they removed?

Yes, they will go away. Roar/Whirlwind and friends will also negate the effects. Hazers are the best, though, because the move Haze will destroy any attempt to Stat up. The only way to retain the Stat-up moves's effects is to Baton Pass.


is a pokemons nature determined before you catch it (legendarys, eggs etc)?

Yes and no. Legendaries aren't predetermined, the exclusions being Lati@s and the Dogs in FR/LG. You have to hoep for a good Nature with them. Any other Legendary, though, you can reset in front of until you get a decent Nature, the one you want, or even the correct Hidden Power(I don't recommend that unless you have extraordinary patience). Same thing for Shinies. Eggs, though, are determined as soon as they are made. Best thing to do it place the Pokémon in the Daycare center, save, get the Egg, and hatch it. If it's not what you want, reset, and wait for another Egg.

Blackjack: No clue on that. It's not as obvious as SkarmBliss or Celejump. I remember asking when I was a newb and never getting a straight answer.


~*CB*~
The 8th Champion

Hiraitos Zero aka OCZ
11th September 2005, 6:36 AM
Ludicolo. Dont have dive plain and simple. You might be thinking "but it can stall one turn so toxic and leech seed and rain dish and leftovers can take effect" well thats nice and all but whats stopping the pokemon from switching? causing leech seed and toxic to stop and you have to set up all over again. It would make sense if Ludicolo had whirlpool in the set to trap it but it cant learn it and 4 move max. Sorry.

You could Mean Pass (Mean Look Baton Pass,Usually from Umbreon) to Ludicolo.

superryan
11th September 2005, 2:43 PM
Ludicolo never really accomplishes anything anyway, being an annoyer, and the only thing it counters is kyogre and other waters, who will probably have ice beam anyway so...:/

Though on my drizzle team he works rather nicely as a special sponge

klducks
19th September 2005, 6:22 AM
Though on my drizzle team he works rather nicely as a special sponge
Yes, Ludicolo is in a way underrated since newbs always use the "nubicolo". I personally use it just for fun, especially for link battles.

Anyway, Ludicolo rocks as a special sponge. Sure it doesn't resist ice like all the other water sponges like Milotic, Lapras, and Blastoise but it isn't super effective to electric which is a HUGE plus. Not to mention, Ice Beams don't really hurt this dancing quackers.

Only poke that does better is Lanturn, who's resisant to all Water, Ice, AND Electric.

Exel 4.0
20th October 2005, 12:28 AM
Hyper Beam

Just dont use it. That includes frenzy plant, blast burn, and hydro cannon. I repeat, Dont use it. You'll most likely get flamed or questioned that you used those moves.

What about on slaking?

Got A HEMI?
20th October 2005, 1:14 AM
What about on slaking?
ruturn plz

Darkeggy
13th November 2005, 8:06 PM
What about on slaking?

That's debatable. Return lets you switch out on your off turn, while Hyper Beam makes you stay in. If you think it's worth it, by all means stay in and take a hit. Otherwise, he will continue to be the badass hit and run beatstick he should be.

I recommend Return.

Freakshow
2nd April 2006, 8:10 PM
Return or Double-Edge are the best Normal choices for Slaking. Return is better IMO, but if you have wish support then DE is a menace

DavidUm
5th April 2006, 12:21 AM
Wobuffet is not Uber because if a pokemon with dragon dance or calm mind sees one, they'll max out their stats by continously using CM or DD.

Slaking needs pure power! not some stupid *** truant!

ZNtelle
5th April 2006, 12:22 AM
But then Wobbuffet uses Encore and switches to a counter.

You've never battled someone who knows how to use a Wobuffet apparently.

EDIT: GameFAQs really needs you as an analysis writer.

DavidUm
5th April 2006, 12:23 AM
what about the slaking comment I made?

encore is an egg move? and I have no idea which pokemon breeds with wobbuffet that has encore

ZNtelle
5th April 2006, 12:24 AM
It's all fantasy, like the idea of GameFAQs ever becoming a good source for competitive strategies.

aipomkong
5th April 2006, 10:51 AM
DavidUm for Carpet Muncher

(pity no one from the original NB forums is here to understand this)

Tazzler
5th April 2006, 7:33 PM
Wobuffet is not Uber because if a pokemon with dragon dance or calm mind sees one, they'll max out their stats by continously using CM or DD.

Slaking needs pure power! not some stupid *** truant!

Beacuse that would make it br0ken.

Slaking has truant to balance out the fact that its stats plainly rule.

Delta
5th April 2006, 8:32 PM
(pity no one from the original NB forums is here to understand this)

i actually understood it, 0ma

SpaceFlare
6th April 2006, 3:50 AM
Wobuffet is not Uber because if a pokemon with dragon dance or calm mind sees one, they'll max out their stats by continously using CM or DD.

Slaking needs pure power! not some stupid *** truant!

Late reply, but I just have to mention that Slaking's base stat total = uber base stat total (Groudon and Kyogre iirc). Slaking is not deemed an uber despite the base stat total because of it's ability called Truant.

Just wanted to get this point across.

dynamo
6th April 2006, 5:44 PM
DavidUm, I suggest you read this noob guide ;)

magnemiteZ
7th April 2006, 1:18 PM
I suggest this be renamed "DavidUm, ffs read this"

ShinyFufu
8th April 2006, 5:35 AM
Hey, everyone! I am not a newb, but I cannot call myself an expert. I just need ur opinion on something. Do u think serebii gives better movesets, psypoke, or smogon?(I used to think it was serebii, but when I saw smogon, serebii was nothing, IMO.)

The Flat World
8th April 2006, 6:00 AM
Smogon, obviously....

Smogon > Serebii POTW nowadays >gamefaqs > the earlier Serebii POTW

I've never heard of psypoke.

aipomkong
8th April 2006, 4:01 PM
psypoke is the worst place for movesets ever

smashbrosfan!
9th April 2006, 12:13 AM
how come? I thought their moveset were pretty good.

DragonDance
9th April 2006, 12:37 AM
Smogon is the best. USE IT!

Delta
9th April 2006, 12:42 AM
how come? I thought their moveset were pretty good.

No, psypoke sucks

Just use Smogon

Hey Micky!
9th April 2006, 4:43 PM
Smogon, obviously....

Smogon > Serebii POTW nowadays >gamefaqs > the earlier Serebii POTW

I've never heard of psypoke.
What he said, and that ends it.

DragonDance
10th April 2006, 3:29 AM
imo, you should have closed this to prevent more spamming.

Hey Micky!
10th April 2006, 4:48 AM
imo, you should have closed this to prevent more spamming.
Always gonna be changes in the metagame and always gonna be a new player asking a question that isn't brought up in this thread, so nope

SneaselReject
30th June 2006, 5:11 AM
Could you please further explain how to tell the type of a Pokemon's Hidden Power?
The explanation that you gave on the front page confused my (very) small brain. XD

snorlax
30th June 2006, 5:15 AM
fight a kecleon

SneaselReject
30th June 2006, 5:35 AM
because of Hidden Power's base type(Normal) its will either stay the same or say it became a normal type again. But ill try it, thank you.

snorlax
30th June 2006, 5:37 AM
nope

it will deffinatly say

Kecleon turned to Grass Type!

**** like that

DragonDance
30th June 2006, 5:43 AM
MY NAME IS PICKNICER JANE! [/high]

it will say "asldhsdfhg dfjgdfkj hgfg dflgh fdg dghg d ghdg turned into ***got type"