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Rhys29
25th November 2008, 11:01 AM
I've always been more interested in the Double Battles of Pokemon because there is (potentially) far more strategy involved. I've been devising techniques of my own, but I want to see what you guys have. List the best strategy you have come up with or seen (if it was not yours, give credit where credit is due if you can). Please feel free to discuss and give suggestions to other strategies posted here as well, I want this to be a growing thread. Hopefully everyone will benefit!

Recently took some times to explain good counters. If you find your team is weak to Trick Room or a weather effect, looking at my guide might help you find a viable counter to deal with your problem. Here it is, part one:

~RHYS29íS DOUBLE BATTLE COUNTER/TEAM GUIDE
As most/all of you know, I love DBís and constantly talk about them. I give almost everybody constant advice who post on my thread and try and be as helpful as possible. Many of you have seen how your teams work and I have showed you their weaknesses and how they can be shut down. I am now going to list all the good counters I could find and superior users of the Weather Effects. This post will continually grow, so check back often.


~~~TRICK ROOM COUNTERS
-Most likely the most common DB strategy. This move may have a -7 speed priority, however it makes the slower pokes go first for 5 straight turns. Seeing how many tanking and powerful pokes are held back by their terrible speed, this move allows them to unlock their full potential. The most common pokes that are known to unleash this move are Dusknoir and Bronzong since they both have solid defenses, plenty of resistances and are slow enough to use the effects of the move effectively.

Steelix@Leftovers/Life Orb
Careful, Rock Head
252 HP, 204 Sp.D, 52 Att
Gyro Ball/Aqua Tail/Thunder Fang
Curse
Fire Fang/Crunch
Earthquake

The most common pokes who use TR are Dusknoir and Bronzong. With this set, you will beat a Ėnature speed Zong and still be close enough to outrun both pokes after one Curse. Gyro Ball is the best obvious move for him when dealing with fast pokes, however not as useful when facing a TR team. Both Aqua Tail and Thunder Fang counter Fire and Water types, the two types that are common in DBís and its other weaknesses. Curse is to benefit from the TR or just power him up in general. Fire Fang is meant for Zong, dealing a good chunk of damage on the first turn and possibly flinching while Crunch is for Noir and lowering its high defense. Earthquake is for STAB and because itís EQ. Solid counter to both, seeing as both Zong and Noir rely mostly on their attack. Boost Sp.D for survival issues. Works best with a Light Screener by its side.


Camerupt@Leftovers/Life Orb
Brave, Rock Solid
252 Sp.A, 180 Att, 76 Hp
Eruption/Heat Wave
Earthquake/Earth Power
Rock Slide
Explosion/Will-o-wisp/Stealth Rock

Camerupt is slow enough to use TR effectively and fast enough to outrun Bronzong on turn 1. A full power Eruption with LO from Camerupt does 320 cap damage to a full Sp.D Bronzong (if they capped HP as well, it will deal 94%) WITHOUT Life Orb. OHKOís with LO obviously. However, seeing as he is very slow, another poke could hit him hard and take away the power of Eruption, so unless you have a Follow Me poke or are confident you outrun both pokes/wonít get hit, this is the one of the best ways to deal with Zong. Also hits the enemy, so bonus. Heat Wave deals a respectable 213 capped damage (63%) without LO and 276 (81%) with it. Both are good options, but one is more about getting the shot in with no damage versus set BP. Depending on the rest of your party, you can choose between either move, seeing as Earth Power can help you deal with a partner that canít avoid EQ and provides more special support while EQ is EQ. Rock Slide is a great move and if they manage to get TR up, you may get a double flinch. The last is dependent on if you think it should provide support or go Boom when itís provided the help it needed to.


Typhlosion@Choice Scarf
Modest, Blaze
252 Sp.A, 252 Spe, 6 Hp
Eruption
Overheat/Focus Blast
Solarbeam
HP-Ice/Rock

The best way to stop Zong. OHKOís with Eruption on the first turn, easily outrunning both opponents and deals extremely heavy damage to the opposing poke. If you want to make sure he gets that first shot off, go with a Fake Out user as its partner. It also deal a large amount of damage to a fully Sp.D Dusknoir (a 2HKO). Overheat if you want to switch him in and out with low health to still deal heavy damage or Focus Blast for Fighting coverage against T-Tar. If you can get Sunny Day up, send him in and Solar Beam away with intense speed (you will outrun most Chlorophyl users, since most set their speed to about 400 under the sun). HP-Ice/Rock for other coverage.


Granbull@Choice Band/Expert Belt
Adamant, Quick Feet
252 Att, 252 Hp, 6 Spe
Crunch
Fire Fang
Return/Close Combat
Bulk Up/Roar/Heal Bell/Thunder Wave

One of the best ways to deal with both pokes. Crunch deals good damage to both pokes, most notably Dusknoir. Fire Fang deals solid damage to Zong and helps with his Steel-wallability. Return for a good STAB or Close Combat for a powerful Fighting move. For the last set itís really what you want him to do for the rest of the game: start Bulking Up and tank away, Roar for a useful forced switch, Heal Bell for an amazing status absorber, or T-Wave to provide support. ANOTHER SIMILAR OPTION TO THIS IS URSARING.


Weavile@Focus Sash/Expert Belt
Adamant, Pressure
252 Att, 252 Hp, 6 Spe
Taunt
Fake Out
Night Slash
Brick Break/Ice Punch/Ice Shard

First, I know what youíre thinking about a bulky Weavile. If you make it too fast, it will be much more open to TR and so it doesnít really need the speed for that. Taunt just straight up prevents TR from working, plain as that. Fake Out will also stop Zong and others from getting their first move in. Night Slash is to deal heavy damage to both pokes, more to Noir. The last slot is for what you need: T-Tar insurance, solid STAB, or another priority.


Spiritomb@Leftovers/Lum Berry
Modest, Pressure
212 Hp, 128 Def, 128 Sp.D, 44 Spe
Taunt
Pain Split
Dark Pulse
Will-o-wisp/Hypnosis

This guy will outrun a Ėspeed natured Noir, giving it just enough speed. Taunt can get both Dusk and Zong first, stopping TR. Pain Split to help its frail HP stat hold up. Dark Pulse for an effective STAB and scores pretty decent damage against the two threats. Will-o-wisp is for burning and Hypnosis for the sleep.

***NOTES: Other pokes are notorious for pulling out TR such as the Broís and Porygon2. This can be solved with minor tweaking to the sets, such as going with the Fighting options on Typhlosion and Granbull to deal with Pory2 and the Dark type users/Taunters for the Bros work just fine.


~~~RAIN DANCE COUNTERS
-Almost always played with a Double Surf combo (two pokes with Water Absorb use Surf continually in Rain, dealing lots of damage and continually healing), this combo is deadly when combined with specific Water types. Rain boosts the power of Water moves by 1.5, Fire attacks are reduced by 50%, Thunder gains 100% accuracy and 25% pierce (cuts through Protect and Detect), knocks down Solar Beam to 2 rounds to charge up, and reduces the power of Moonlight, Synthesis, and Morning sun to 25%. It also activates several abilities such as Swift Swim which doubles the pokes speed while its raining. Overall possibly the most deadly and to Sunny Day teams and Fire users.

Golduck@Leftovers/Light Clay
Modest, Cloud Nine
252 Hp, 180 Def, 76 Sp.D
Calm Mind/Amnesia
Ice Beam/Reflect/Light Screen
Psychic/Seismic Toss
Hypnosis/Reflect/Light Screen/Toxic

Perfect to cancel out all weather effect teams. His ability simply stops weather effects from working all together and the only other poke who is capable of doing this is Rayquaza. For the moveset, you are probably going to want him to work for teamwork than offense. Calm Mind is good for tanking capabilities while Amnesia just gets that Sp.D up so it can survive longer. Any combination for the next several moves works. Ice Beam for a great attack and coverage, Psychic for STAB boost, Seismic Toss for continuous 100 damage strikes, Toxic to get some poison on the foe, Hypnosis for sleeping a poke, and Reflect and Light Screen for party boosting capacity. A very team-friendly poke with an excellent move pool.


Starmie@Leftovers
Modest, Natural Cure/Illuminate
252 Hp, 252 Sp.A, 6 Spe
Skill Swap
Light Screen/Reflect/Cosmic Power
Thunder Wave/Recover
Thunder/Thunderbolt

This bulky Starmie could help you deal with those dang Swift Swimmers. Skill Swap gives Starmie the Swift Swim ability, making its already good speed ridiculous in the rain, and since you can do this turn one the ability will only activate for you since it doesnít activate the turn Rain Dance starts. Light Screen or Reflect for extra defense for the team and Cosmic Power if you need to keep this baby out, since it will do very well as a tank, seeing as how it has good Sp.A, this moves boosts both defenses, and it could have Swift Swim double its speed. T-Wave or Recover for survivability. Thunder if you plan on the foe keeping the rain going (or if you want to keep the rain going) or Thunderbolt if you or your opponent puts a stop to the rain.


Qwilfish@Focus Sash/Life Orb
Adamant, Swift Swim
252 Spe, 252 Att, 6 Hp
Sword Dance
Aqua Tail/Poison Jab
Taunt/Aqua Tail/Poison Jab
Explosion/Destiny Bond

Rare to see this little guy used as a counter, but none the less he works like a charm. With resistance to water, he may be able to survive a turn making Life Orb the way to go; but if you are looking for more assurance, go with Focus Sash so he can take the first hit. The Swift Swim allows him to force the opponent to make a tough choice, seeing as they will also give him the boost. Sword Dance will give Qwilfish over 600 attack power on the first turn, making him a force to be reckoned with. Aqua Tail is a powerful STAB, but usually less usable against a RD team than Poison Jab. Taunt gives the gained speed/high speed of Qwilfish a chance to stop a set up before it forms. Of course, you could always end things with a Boom to take out two pokes as well or if your other pokes donít have good resistance to it or Protect, Destiny Bond may be a better choice.


Dewgong@Leftovers
Adamant, Hydration
252 Hp, 192 Def, 64 Sp.D
Rest
Encore/Disable
Fake Out
Aqua Tail/Avalanche

Dewgong is a unique wall that works very well against RD teams. With Hydration, as long as there is rain coming down it is cured of all status ailments. With this ability, Rest allows you to have a one turn full heal without having to sleep it off. Encore and Disable are used to either force the opponent to use the last move or stop them from using it, depends on what your party needs. Fake Out is a great way to give him a free turn to settle into the rain since you can momentarily stop the other threat. The last move could be either STAB move, depending on what you need to cover.


Ludicolo@Leftovers
Calm, Rain Dish
204 Hp, 200 Sp.D, 48 Def, 4 Spe
Leech Seed
Protect
Grass Knot/Giga Drain
Toxic/Fake Out/Substitute

The EVís give it both max Leftovers and Rain Dish recovery. This guy works amazingly at shutting down a Double Surf or Rain Dance team. He has x4 resistance to water, making any water move almost pointless against him. Leech Seed is for bonus Hp recovery and it usually forces a switch. Protect is to get an extra free recovery turn and allow a partner to execute a move that would normally hurt it (EX: EQ). Grass Knot is for heavier pokes where as Giga Drain gives you even more recovery potential. If you chose Giga Drain, youíre going to want to stay away from Fake Out, seeing as it wonít help you in the stalling game. Toxic will slowly whittle away at a foe and works well with Leech Seed where as Substitute will give you status effects resistance and more time to heal it all back. This poke is more meant to stall the opponent out more than anything else.

***NOTES: Most other pokes with Swift Swim will work as counters; however do not make them as dependant on the rain since you may be facing teams without RD. Kindgra does very very well against RD, but is more useful as part of a RD team, not to counter one.

~~~SUNNY DAY COUNTERS
-Sunny Day is a move that not only helps out Fire types, but a lot of Grass type pokes benefit from the sunlight as well. Usually constituted with a lot of Fire moves, this type of team can rain destruction while using various abilities to keep foes on their toes. While the sun is up, Fire moves get a 1.5x boost, Water moves power are cut in half, Thunderís accuracy drops to an abysmal 50% (better off with Zap Cannon at that point lol), Solar Beam doesnít take a turn to charge up, and Synthesis, Moonlight, and Morning Sun recover 100% of the userís HP.

Golduck@Leftovers/Light Clay
Modest, Cloud Nine
252 Hp, 180 Def, 76 Sp.D
Calm Mind/Amnesia
Ice Beam/Reflect/Light Screen
Hydro Pump/Seismic Toss
Hypnosis/Reflect/Light Screen/Toxic

Look familiar? Yep, Golduck is back as one of the top Sunny Day counters. He works just about the same, however notice no Psychic. Instead, I would go with Hydro Pump, since it deals with Fires quite quickly and seeing as there is no -50% from the sun, have fun beating on them, especially if you tank with Calm Mind. Still an excellent choice and this most certainly wonít be the last time you see this guy.


Bellossom@Leftovers
Timid, Chlorophyll
252 Hp, 180 Sp.D, 76 Spe (need 31 Spe IVís)
Sleep Powder/Stun Spore
Grass Knot/Energy Ball/Solar Beam
HP-Ground/Rock
Gastro Acid/Synthesis/Sludge Bomb

I ran the EVís so this poke would outrun its biggest threats in the DB environment under the sun: Typhlosion and Nintails. Both with max speed cannot outrun this while the sun is up. With the high speed boost, this allows you to Stun Spore or Sleep Powder any threat quickly. Grass Knot and Energy Ball will rival in power when you arenít fighting with the sun in the sky, while Solar Beam is for those preparing this guy solely to use the sun. Since Water moves lose 50% power when Sunny Day is active, your HP will have to be something else that hits Fire types hard. The last slot is for shutting down other pokes that would benefit from the sun or who rely on their abilities, Synthesis for a full heal, or Sludge Bomb for an extra special attack that deals with most other Chlorophyllíers. Since the main moves to be afraid of that are Fire based in DBís are special (Lava Plume, Heat Wave, Eruption), you will need a boost to your Sp.D.


Flygon@Life Orb
Jolly, Levitate
252 Hp, 252 Spe, 6 Hp
Roost
Fire Punch/U-Turn
Earthquake
Stone Edge/Dragon Claw

Didnít expect to see him as a counter? He has full resist to Earthquake and Discharge as well as Fire resistance. Perfect for taking down a Fire based team, seeing as they usually pack an Electric and/or a Grass type. The obvious first move is Roost, allowing him to continue to deal massive damage and mess with most Sunny Day teams. Fire Punch is good since it gets the SD boost and it is good against Chlorophyllíers, but U-Turn is what sets him apart from other Dragons: it gives him an attack and switch and it will also deal critical damage to Chlorophyllíers, most notably the dangerous Exeggutor. Earthquake is very obvious, STAB, SE on Fire types, and its EQ. The last spot is an interesting choice, seeing as you can go for Stone Edge for an attack on Levitating/Flying Fire types or Dragon Claw for another powerful STAB. Do not change the speed EVís, as it is meant to tie with Typhlosion and Ninetails. THIS SET CAN ALSO BE RUN WITH A CHOICE SCARF WITH ADJUSTED SPEED EVíS AND NATURE.


***NOTES: Most pokes with Flash Fire can switch into an obvious Fire attack and be a counter. Some pokes with Leaf Guard could work, however they are either defensively weak or not fast enough, so only use them with caution. Contrary to what many believe Water types are not effective counters to Sunny Day teams nor are Rock types. Solar Beam takes care of both of them, so donít expect either choice to really affect them too much.


~~~HAIL COUNTERS
-Hail teams are usually taken lightly, seeing as how few pokes have abilities that benefit from it. However, in the right hands, Hail teams can be more deadly than most could imagine. Usually stemming from an Abomasnow lead starting never ending hail and leading into Ice types or pokes that can use the signature move of hail teams: Blizzard. Both Blizzard and Thunder are almost always traded for the more accurate Ice Beam and Thunderbolt, however, with weather effects, the accuracy boost received makes the power hitting moves the main choice. Under Hail, all non-Ice type pokes without abilities that works with hail take 1/16th every turn, Blizzard is boosted to 100% accuracy with 25% pierce, and Synthesis and the like are reduced to 25%. Hail works a lot like Sandstorm, however SS doesnít make a move ridiculously overpowered/useful. However, most Hail teams are dependent on the Hail in order to function, so taking it away my simply destroy their strategy, however good luck doing that and getting away scot-free.

Golduck@Leftovers/Light Clay
Modest, Cloud Nine
252 Hp, 180 Def, 76 Sp.D
Calm Mind/Amnesia
Focus Blast/Reflect/Light Screen
Psychic/Seismic Toss
Hypnosis/Reflect/Light Screen/Toxic

Heís back, again. This time he takes away everything the Hail team has going for it. He now should have the option of carrying Focus Blast, since Fighting moves are SE against Ice type. However, if you do carry that move you should have Psychic as well just in case your team runs into a troublesome Froslass. Just as good at shut downs and team support as ever.


Lapras@Leftovers
Careful, Water Absorb
252 Hp, 188 Sp.D, 68 Def
Dragon Dance/Curse
Waterfall/Rest/Sleep Talk
Toxic/Sing/Rest/Sleep Talk
Return/Body Slam/Waterfall

If you decided to run Dragon Dance, consider adding 6 Spe from your Def so that you can outrun other DD Laprasí. Lapras is almost the perfect counter to Hail teams. With an x4 resist and Water Absorb, it can effectively shut down most Ice types pokes, since the common combo is Ice/Water. Dragon Dance is to boost up and sweep where as Curse it so help with Trick Room teams as well as Hail. Waterfall is for a nice STAB that benefits from both DD or Curse, Toxic or Sing gives you a good status move (though Toxic is far more reliable), or you could simply go with a Rest Talking boosting set, giving you max tank ability with minimal options to use the offense. Return and Body Slam is for coverage, since you are almost sure to see another Water type on a Hail team.


Empoleon@Leftovers
Modest, Torrent
252 Sp.A, 252 Sp.D, 6 Hp
Surf/Flash Cannon
Grass Knot
HP-Rock
Roar/Yawn/Stealth Rock

Not needing to outrun the enemy pokes as too much, this guy does just about the same as Lapras, only dishing out much more damage. He also has an x4 resist to Ice and a x2 resist to Water, shutting down their two main sources of offense. With a Sp.D, he can literally shrug off Blizzards and just about OHKO almost every poke they would carry with them. Surf is a good move to keep in mind since it is really powerful STAB with good coverage but Flash Cannon is also SE against Ice and is also a STAB. Grass Knot deals with the common Ice/Water types that just about every Hail team is bound to have and scores a powerful hit against Mamoswine. HP-Rock scores an SE hit against every Ice type in game except Mamoswine and x4 against Articuno and the lolable Delibird. Roar allows you to pseudo haze any poke that has been boosting its Sp.D with Calm Mind, such as Jinx and Yawn almost always forces a switch while Stealth Rock will critically hurt any Ice type poke switching in or being forced in.


Infernape@Life Orb
Naughty, Blaze
24 Att, 252 Sp.A, 232 Spe
Flamethrower
Close Combat
Grass Knot
Stealth Rock

Seem familiar? Yep, a tweaked Mixape. This guy is only slightly on the risky side since he is weak to Water, one of Iceís main sources of attack, however only Weavile and Froslass can outrun this Ice-slaying beast and neither have a Water move outside of HP. Flamethrower is a powerful STAB that will just simply end all non-Water/Ice types that can resist Hail. Close Combat deals with those who have high Sp.Dís and are Water/Ice type, where Grass Knot covers the low Def ones. Stealth Rock allows just about every shot to be OHKO guaranteed. This guy just rips apart Hail teams so fast the opponentís head with spin.


Heatran@Life Orb
Modest, Flash Fire
252 Sp.A, 28 Spe, 228 Hp
Magnet Rise/Stealth Rock
Heat Wave
Dragon Pulse
Explosion

Oh yeah, Heatran rape time. He also has an x4 resist to Ice, making him a great switch in to Blizzard. The Speed EVís are to outrun minimum base 80 pokes Glalie and Mamoswine which are both common on Hail teams. Magnet Rise will help you with this things worst threat, Earthquake, where as Stealth Rock takes care of iffy OHKOís. Heat Wave hits both enemies HARD, getting a STAB and LO boost as well as the nice 394 Sp.A to back it. Though not very common, Dragons sometimes are included in Hail teams since using Ice against a Hail team is usually a no no, and Dragon Pulse will deal with that problem swiftly. And as Heatran is also known for, wait till his Hp drops too low and go out with a Boom, seeing as with hail this guy will only last 6 turns total (this goes for Infernape as well, forgot to mention that). Scarftran also works, btw, however this can kill faster since it has a much better Sp.A and the speed isnít really needed too much.

***NOTES: Fire types usually work well, however due to the abundance of Ice/Water, they are slightly hindered. Rock types have the same problem with both Water and Ice moves. Steels do very well as do Water, however Water types lack too many moves that hit Ice hard.


~~~SANDSTORM COUNTERS
Sandstream leads have always been effective in both styles of combat, singles and doubles. With a good chunk of pokes that actually resist Sandstorm these teams can be pretty versatile. However, SS teams slightly suffer since the only ability that benefits from it is Sand Veil and is the only weather effect that doesnít boost the power of an attack (besides Weather Ball, but thatís a given). This limits the teamís power and versatility. When the sand is raging, all non-Rock, Steel, and Ground type pokes take 1/16th every turn, all Rock pokes get a 1.5x boost to their Sp.D, Solar Beamís BP is reduced to 60, Thunderís accuracy is dropped to 50%, and Synthesis and the like only recover 25%. That being said, SS teams are more about defending the team (especially Rock types) than powering it up.

Golduck@Leftovers
Modest, Cloud Nine
252 Hp, 180 Def, 76 Sp.D
Calm Mind/Amnesia
Ice Beam/Focus Blast/Reflect/Light Screen
Hydro Pump/Seismic Toss
Hypnosis/Reflect/Light Screen/Toxic

Heís back once more as the almighty SS shut down. Now, why does he work so well against SS teams? Because the team is based on defense other than attack. The other teams are sure to be able to deal with their weather being out since they needed more defensive stats and their moves should still have some good power. SS teams are meant to abuse the 1.5x boost, and taking that away could prove fatal to their whole team. This set is more focused on getting some solid hits in since while this guy is out you can get more damage on the enemy than when he is not. This will help you greatly to taking out T-Tar and other pokes that are a threat while SS is up.


Relicanth@Choice Band
Adamant, Rock Head
252 Att, 136 Sp.D, 120 Def
Head Smash
Aqua Tail
Earthquake
Bounce/Dive

Relicanth is a good team member and shut down for SS teams. He gets the 1.5 boost and already has high Def, making him a great tank. However with weakness to Ground, Electric, and x4 to Grass, you shouldnít be keeping him in without proper help. His attack gets a powerful Band boost and with Rock Head and STAB Head Smash, he can deal some heavy damage to the enemy. Aqua Tail strikes at the common Water weakness of Rock and Ground types where as Earthquake covers Steels and Rocks as well. The last spot is kind of filler; however it gives your partner poke to unleash a powerful attack that would normally hit the other three pokes. You also get a move to strike Grass hard or another good STAB.


Shuckle@Leftovers
Impish, Gluttony
252 Hp, 252 Def, 6 Sp.D
Stealth Rock
Gastro Acid
Helping Hand/\Acupressure
Knock Off/\Bug Bite

Yes, if anyone knows my thread, they will recognize the Shutdown Shuckle. With both ridiculously high defenses because of the SS, this guy is probably the best mix wall in the game. Stealth Rock for SS teams who need to switch pokes in and out commonly, thus slowly whittling away at their health. Gastro Acid is to shut down pokes depending on their abilities, which is extremely common. You can choose either Helping Hand or Knock Off OR Acupressure and Bug Bite, since you canít have Acupressure and Knock Off on the same set. Both work to power up the partner and take items away from the opponent.


Flygon@Life Orb
Adamant, Levitate
252 Hp, 252 Spe, 6 Hp
Roost
U-Turn
Earthquake
Dragon Claw/Fire Punch

Remember Flygon? Yeah, heís good at countering SS too. He doesnít need as much speed this time since most of the pokes youíre going to be seeing are slow and bulky, so the extra attack will definitely help. You want U-Turn for sure this time since T-Tar takes heavy damage from this and you can switch another poke that is more defensive. However, Dragon Claw on this set would leave you in a bad spot against Skarmory, so if you really have no other way to combat it on your team Fire Punch is something to consider, otherwise go with the STAB good coverage move.


Swampert@Leftovers
Impish, Torrent
252 Hp, 180 Def, 76 Att
Curse/Rest/Sleep Talk
Superpower/Hammer Arm/Rest/Sleep Talk/Roar
Waterfall/Aqua Tail
Earthquake

With the resistance to SS, two STABS that cover all the pokes that are usually on an SS team, and plenty of bulk with resistance to Rock and Steel, this guy shuts down SS teams pretty well. His weakness is similar to Relicanthís, x4 to Grass. As long as you take care of any Grass threats (Cradily) this guy could potentially sweep all the opposing pokes. You can go for a Curser for tankability or RstTlk for status absorbing. The option of Roar is open for Cursers along with Superpower and Hammer Arm as a way to counter other Cursers and get full use of previously laid Spikes/SR. Waterfall or Aqua Tail for a powerful Water STAB and Earthquake because itís STAB EQ.

***NOTES: Since Rock types will benefit from the Sp.D, most almost automatically become effective tanks/mix walls. The best way to beat this kind of team is to wipe out their lead SSer and throw your own weather effect up.

xPanda
25th November 2008, 5:48 PM
mines was to pare a flying type and a ground type pokemon so that
i could use earthquake and my pokemon wont get hurt, thats all i got.

superjesus1
25th November 2008, 10:06 PM
I like to get as many types in there as possible with little negative effects eg torterra (Grass/ground) and zapdos (electric flying) - torterra can cause destruction with EQ and zapdos can freely use discharge. They also cover each others weaknesses, torterra can take down and rock and ground types, while zapdos takes out water sweepers (which can hit torterra hard still and have ice moves) Though this particular set up is weak to ice and probably fire also.

Arande
25th November 2008, 10:35 PM
Lets see...

Sunny day: Cherrim and shiftry opener, shiftry fakes out the threat while cherrim sets up sunny day (yay bulky cherrim) next turn cherrim protects, shiftry explodes (now having double speed), then it's good ol typhlosion w eruption, backed by sunny day, flower gift, and helping hand. If for some reason I lose either one, I have exeggcutor with it's massive sp att, and doubled speed to help sweep, or sleep powder support. Couple other pokes to deal with things like flash fire pokes.

I'm actually working on a UU doubles team, not gonna say about it yet :P

SilverMorty
25th November 2008, 11:34 PM
Got a couple-

Gengar/Ghost with Levitate + Earthquake/Explosion= pretty self explanatory :)

Ghost with Levitate can also be replaced by anyone with Protect

Also, Endure+Reversal/Flail/Salac Berry + Explosion worked wonders in Emerald's Battle Factory :D

Zapdos/Rotom with Discharge+Ground Pokemon with Earthquake

Self Explanatory- You can use both moves without worrying about the other pokemon

which leads to these combos:

Discharge + Volt Absorb/Motor Drive, Surf + Water Absorb/Dry Skin, Lava Plume + Flash Fire

FurretFreak
25th November 2008, 11:44 PM
i had a bronzong use skill swap with a slaking. in another battle i had a shuckle use gastro acid on a slaking. in another battle i had a togekiss use follow me to let my infernape destroy everything.

TR_Jessie
26th November 2008, 12:27 AM
Shinja+Surf/EQ/Discharge/Explosion

Toxicroak+Kindra(using Surf)

Zapdos@life orb w/ discharge+SD'd Chomp w/ EQ

I'll post other ones once my mind is clear.

Rhys29
26th November 2008, 12:40 AM
A lot of good suggestion guys. The Slaking combo from FurretFreak is one of my favorites that i've found. You can also use that trick to pop out weakness, say team up a Claydol with an Aggron or the more popular Heatran and rid it of the x4 weakness to ground before switching it out for sumthin with Earthquake (really cheap if you combo this with Punchggron).

HalcyonJon
26th November 2008, 12:44 AM
I just started Double Battling myself, but so far my best strategy has been a Jirachi Skill Swap to Regigigas, who, with Choice Scarf, flinches everything with Rock Slide.

Rhys29
26th November 2008, 12:44 AM
I have to give props to superjesus1 btw, great combo! tho you do have to watch very closely for ice types, so you might want to make sure Torterra has Stone Edge or some other way to counter this problem (1 Glaceon could kill that party if you're not careful).

Rhys29
26th November 2008, 12:48 AM
I just started Double Battling myself, but so far my best strategy has been a Jirachi Skill Swap to Regigigas, who, with Choice Scarf, flinches everything with Rock Slide.

This is a pretty smart technique, but it seems kind of a waste for Jirachi. I would suggest using a more suitable wall like Claydol or Bronzong. Just make sure you switch out the switched up poke asap to just rid yourself of the problem (switching out to another wall is a good idea, something like a Spiritomb might be smart).

HalcyonJon
26th November 2008, 12:52 AM
The trick is, Jirachi's pretty much necessary, as it is one of two Skill Swappers with Serene Grace (giving Rock Slide 60% flinch rate). Blissey's the other option and is certainly plausible, but I like Jirachi better. :) Also, Jirachi isn't harmed much by Slow Start, as I just use it for Reflect and Doom Desire (again, not the most useful option, but I like it).

Rhys29
26th November 2008, 1:03 AM
Ah, i see your point. If Jirachi also has wish, it totally works.

Rhys29
26th November 2008, 1:05 AM
Also Future Sight and Cosmic Power might help as well.

Boomguy
26th November 2008, 1:14 AM
a popular doubles Strat was Garchomp or Dugtrio with Zapdos

Always gang up the pokemon thats going to use Trick Room.

Have an inner focus pokemon to prevent fake outs very popular move

I love using Gravity it really messes alot of Double teams

Rhys29
26th November 2008, 1:16 AM
YES! Gravity is EXTREMELY underated! It can literally cripple strategies with one move.

GokuRikaku
26th November 2008, 2:26 AM
Smeargle with Dark Void, Belly Drum, Boton Pass, and Substitute.
With Spinda that has Return, Sucker Punch, Psych Up, and Teeter Dance.
And something else thats physical.

Using Dark Void and Teeter Dance, hoping Smeargle goes first and hits both and then Teeter Dance on the same turn (Smeargle must have Own Tempo) making both Pokemon asleep and confuse.

Then use Belly Drum and Psych Up on Smeargle, Spinda shall be deadly.
Then use Substitute/Boton Pass into someone else and fire away.


Dosen't work all the time as if Smeargle gets hit, its all over, and useless in those "NO TWO POKEMON CAN BE ASLEEP!" rules... but its a tricky plan. Dark Void also have a chance of missing. Taunt will also ruin the plan if they know what you are going to do, but this is the only way I know to make Spinda a GOD in double battle.

FurretFreak
26th November 2008, 5:55 AM
another strat i havent used but think would be cool is to use

Gyarados with a rhyperior (lightningrod)

1. Lightningrod would draw electric attacks, which would otherwise destroys gyarados
2. Rhyperior can use Earthquake without hitting Gyarados

Biodragon
26th November 2008, 7:03 AM
All I got is surf+fly, or any move like it, protect works to.

kinder surprise
26th November 2008, 8:36 AM
another strat i havent used but think would be cool is to use

Gyarados with a rhyperior (lightningrod)

1. Lightningrod would draw electric attacks, which would otherwise destroys gyarados
2. Rhyperior can use Earthquake without hitting Gyarados

You would be suprised how bad(not bad but not great) it actually is

I love my Metagar combo, Explosion and EQ dont touch Gengar.

and Gengar pwns on its own

Rhys29
26th November 2008, 9:50 AM
He's right... it would seem like two heavy hitters would be good since you can combo it, however it is riddled with weaknesses. Both suck against special attackers, and a mixape tears it apart in two turns. The Metagross/Gengar (or Spiritomb) combo is over played to an extent... and the fact that Gengar can go down in one shot from a Weavile or Alakazam. Not too shabby tho, give Metagross Earthquake while you're at it and you should do fine (another nifty trick with this is to let Gengar use Destiny bond on sumthing that would pose a big problem like Shuckle, Dusknoir, or another wall/staller and then have Metagross kill it with Psychic. Not too conventional, but it works in a tight spot).

beoderro
26th November 2008, 10:37 AM
I actually don't have any strategy...I'm just attacking directly to opponent with both Pokemon, using raw power! c(:

Jessie&James
26th November 2008, 10:38 AM
No strategy is my best strategy.

Rhys29
26th November 2008, 10:41 AM
We're looking for actual strategy here...

Plus attacking with raw power has you absolutely screwed against wall and staller combos.

Boomguy
28th November 2008, 4:54 AM
Stat boosting isn't a good tatic in doubles unless they have 1 sleeping pokemon and the other is frozen.

zm_
28th November 2008, 4:57 AM
Stat Boosting can work. Especially if you can sleep the bigger threat to your stat booster or use the move follow me.

Calm Mind from a Mixed Tank has worked wonders in my previous doubles matches.

Boomguy
28th November 2008, 5:04 AM
Stat Boosting can work. Especially if you can sleep the bigger threat to your stat booster or use the move follow me.

Calm Mind from a Mixed Tank has worked wonders in my previous doubles matches.

hmm i'll need to take you on again then later some time tonite, but usaully people would use moves that will hit all pokemon in double battles.

Rain Dance teams are also annoying in double battles

mudkip master
28th November 2008, 6:15 AM
manaphy@ damp rock and
rest
rain dance
acid armor
heart swap

dewgong@???
rest
ice beam
???
???
sorry i don't rember much of dewgongs moves or item but dewgong was a sweeper

Rhys29
28th November 2008, 7:28 AM
This is good, we're getting excellent tips here on how to base your teams. Yes, Boomguy has brought up one of the most effective ways to win a double battle: use a weather changing team. You can use something such as the commonly used Rain Dance combos to a Hail team. This allows both your pokemon to benefit from a single move, give you a huge advantage over your enemies. I do have a question now and am wondering if anyone here can help, I'm trying to use a Punchggron and am looking for a way to eliminate his x4 weakness to fighting (besides a chople berry). Does anyone have any suggestions?

zm_
28th November 2008, 8:39 AM
Maybe transfer a skill swap from Rhyperior (solid rock) over to Aggron using a middle man such as Bronzong.

Rhys29
28th November 2008, 9:01 AM
Maybe transfer a skill swap from Rhyperior (solid rock) over to Aggron using a middle man such as Bronzong.

I'm already using Claydol/Bronzong to switch out Punchggron's ability for Levitate so it doesn't take any damage from ground (then with Claydol i use Power Swap and Earthquake, lol!). I had thought of your idea already, but i realized that Earthquake is far more common than fighting moves all put together. My back up is to simply ignore it since the only two moves i really have to be worried about getting FRKO'd by is Aura Sphere and Focus Blast, since Focus Blast isn't too common either and Aura Sphere is only used by Lucario (and i take him out on round two since my Punchggron will be faster with Trick Room), so it's not a huge threat. I still have backups. Thanks for the idea tho.

Boomguy
28th November 2008, 9:43 AM
This is good, we're getting excellent tips here on how to base your teams. Yes, Boomguy has brought up one of the most effective ways to win a double battle: use a weather changing team. You can use something such as the commonly used Rain Dance combos to a Hail team. This allows both your pokemon to benefit from a single move, give you a huge advantage over your enemies. I do have a question now and am wondering if anyone here can help, I'm trying to use a Punchggron and am looking for a way to eliminate his x4 weakness to fighting (besides a chople berry). Does anyone have any suggestions?

Easy use Follow Me from a Togekiss to stop those fighting moves hitting Aggron, there is no such fighting move to hit 2 pokemon at once.

I hate seeing a Surfing Swift Swimmer, Water Absorb combo. When i see those rain dance teams i make sure i have pokemon that can paralysis them

PsychicsRox
28th November 2008, 9:45 AM
There are many strategies I've thought of but few that I've actually used because of my laziness. The best one I've used so far is the Water Absorb + Surf Combo.

kinder surprise
28th November 2008, 9:51 AM
Metagross has bullet punch to deal with Weaville and to some extent Zam.

Rhys29
28th November 2008, 10:16 AM
Easy use Follow Me from a Togekiss to stop those fighting moves hitting Aggron, there is no such fighting move to hit 2 pokemon at once.

I hate seeing a Surfing Swift Swimmer, Water Absorb combo. When i see those rain dance teams i make sure i have pokemon that can paralysis them

oh, that is a smart move! I'm afraid that Togekiss would get take out quickly tho... I will save this stat. if I find the Punchggron to be useful (i already have a team up for rating, in ratings section). Thnx

Rhys29
28th November 2008, 10:19 AM
There are many strategies I've thought of but few that I've actually used because of my laziness. The best one I've used so far is the Water Absorb + Surf Combo.

Worked to death. Course it works, so it's easy to see coming.


Metagross has bullet punch to deal with Weaville and to some extent Zam.

Feel dumb but don't know who Zam is. Good suggestion tho, I'll keep that in mind. I'm more worried about Lucario tho.

Boomguy
28th November 2008, 10:23 AM
oh, that is a smart move! I'm afraid that Togekiss would get take out quickly tho... I will save this stat. if I find the Punchggron to be useful (i already have a team up for rating, in ratings section). Thnx

just pump up Togekiss def. Unfortunatly the only pokemon that can use follow me are normal types and Togekiss and Togetic is the only 1 that doesn't have a weakness to fighting

Zam is Alakazam

Rhys29
28th November 2008, 10:27 AM
just pump up Togekiss def. Unfortunatly the only pokemon that can use follow me are normal types and Togekiss and Togetic is the only 1 that doesn't have a weakness to fighting

Zam is Alakazam

Yeah, and I just realized how good Togekiss is as a defender. Plus it can use Wish, so if it's really obvious they're gonna switch out to something that's gonna use one of the moves, I can prepare in advance (and i can team that up by giving Togekiss Leftovers and Punchggron Protect lol!)

Boomguy
28th November 2008, 10:36 AM
i'll to see vids on how they gonna work out. Other than that your Aggron will only have a weakness to water which is really too common in double battles

Rhys29
28th November 2008, 10:48 AM
He has thunderpunch, so he wipes the floor with Vaporeon, so I'm not too afraid of that. I have thought about that too tho. Thnx for the constant good advice.

chubb-o-wub
28th November 2008, 12:37 PM
If you had a Sunny Day Team, you could do Lava Plume and hit your Heatran with it, or in a Rain Dance team, Discharge and hit your Electivire to start a sweep. Or Jolteon to heal a lot. And you'd be firing STAB Thunders from those Pokemon.

Boomguy
28th November 2008, 2:19 PM
He has thunderpunch, so he wipes the floor with Vaporeon, so I'm not too afraid of that. I have thought about that too tho. Thnx for the constant good advice.

Thats gonna take 2 hits to down vaporeon coz its not a STAB attack

Rhys29
28th November 2008, 2:30 PM
true... on that same turn tho i can have claydol earthquake which would finish it off. and since they're both trick roomed, they'd go first.

(s.i.e)
28th November 2008, 3:09 PM
i'm not a double battle strategist but i battled doubles with a plain dragonite and a tank rhyperior that were able to give a nasty punch by both using earthquake.

sadly my wi-fi has been down for quite some time now so i have few chanses to improve with this, i'll be watching this thread.

zm_
28th November 2008, 3:10 PM
Nope, it would go Aggron, Vaporeon (base 65 speed, assuming its still alive), Claydol (base 75 speed), and the opponents other poke (assuming its fast).

If you use trick room you might want to be wary of Rhyperior or Flygon as they laugh at Eathquake, and have decent defense to take a hit as well as having decent attack to hit back. Also Vaporeon Surf might make Aggron or Claydol cry.

edit: Anyone starting to this we make a doubles clan or league to make doubles battling more out there and competitive.

Rhys29
28th November 2008, 3:14 PM
Flygon would go down in one Ice Punch, not worried about that. I was thinking of giving Claydol an Item that would slow it down but I haven't found any that would turn out to otherwise be useful. I know vappy poses a prob to my team. And if I see a Rhyp, I would switch out to my Slowking and Nasty Plot/Ice Beam the byatch.

zm_
28th November 2008, 3:24 PM
Claydol - Lagging Tail

Also with Rhyperior switching to Slowking could be painful in that Megahorn that connects will hurt especially if they predict right. That or they kill you on the turn that you nasty plot. Its probably just easier to use Grass Knot on Rhyperior and targets its x4 weaknesses.

Also Yache Berry would reduce the damage of Ice Punch, not sure about stopping a OHKO, but you never know.

Another flaw in your gameplan is if you encounter two pokes that are quicker than you initially. A lead could potentially taunt your Claydol or put it to sleep or prey on one of its weaknesses such an ice beam.

Also no thoughts on a possible doubles league or clan :P.

Rhys29
28th November 2008, 3:28 PM
Claydol - Lagging Tail

Also with Rhyperior switching to Slowking could be painful in that Megahorn that connects will hurt especially if they predict right. That or they kill you on the turn that you nasty plot. Its probably just easier to use Grass Knot on Rhyperior and targets its x4 weaknesses.

Also Yache Berry would reduce the damage of Ice Punch, not sure about stopping a OHKO, but you never know.

Another flaw in your gameplan is if you encounter two pokes that are quicker than you initially. A lead could potentially taunt your Claydol or put it to sleep or prey on one of its weaknesses such an ice beam.

Also not thoughts on a possible doubles league or clan :P.

I don't know what you mean by 'not thoughts' but if you are suggesting a double battle league you have a huge supporter right here. BTW, I have a Bronzong in reserve, shoud I just open with him and do basically the same thing? (Trick Room, Skill Swap, then Hypnosis or Psychic and with these moves he can wear choice specs and not have to switch)

zm_
28th November 2008, 3:35 PM
If we choice specs all he will do is use Trick Room over and over. Although you could choice band your Aggron so its a more physically defensive type of Slaking.

Also I would join that league but there is no way I am running that.

Rhys29
28th November 2008, 3:41 PM
Yeah, that's true, tho I do need him to use Protect on his first move so he just blows off any attack and then I Trick Room it. Then he gets to attack, so Choice Band wouldn't really work for him.

Haseo101
28th November 2008, 10:13 PM
ditto and elevirve. just transform ditto into elevirve and keep doing discharge

Mr. Joker
28th November 2008, 10:13 PM
Mine is Empoleon and Lapras. Let Lapras do the work and when ever it needs to restore HP use surf

fierylord
28th November 2008, 11:23 PM
I love my Azelf/Smearlge Combo

First, Smeargle has focus sash and uses agility. Azelf kills the rest with explosion

If you can, Smearlge uses Dark Void and the other pokemon has to be a good damager.

Next, use Endeavor, and the other pokemon kills your opponent. Keep repeating!

Pimplup784
29th November 2008, 1:31 AM
ditto and elevirve. just transform ditto into elevirve and keep doing discharge
Why do this when you can get Zapdos and E-Vire together and use Electric Attacks on it while enduring EQ's? Or better yet, do what you said, but Porygon2 instead of Ditto, it's much sturdier.

Lord Scalgon
29th November 2008, 2:45 AM
Uh, let's see...

1) Skill Swap on Slaking
2) Protect + Earthquake

I think #2 suits me. My ideas on double strategies are bleak, but whatever.

Scizor9306
29th November 2008, 8:16 PM
i am having a really hard time deciding my double battle team
i have a really good singles team... dusknoir, breloom, and houndoom, but i have no idea what strategies there are and what pokemon i should add on/take out to do well

#Gecko#
29th November 2008, 9:10 PM
I just use raw power. I first use Choice Alakazam and Band Heracross. Then use Garchomp and Gyarados with SD and DD.

Diwi Istagrem
30th November 2008, 1:55 AM
I've been trying a few combos involving Perish Song. One idea is to pair a Perish Song pokemon with a bulky pokemon that can trap. Alternately, I could have Mismagius both sing and trap while having its partner protect it with Reflect or Follow Me.

chrisv.987
30th November 2008, 2:04 AM
I like Earthquake + Levitate/Flyer but i am sad that they made Surf hit your partner so the only way to cope is with water absorb

Indignation12123
30th November 2008, 2:08 AM
I like Volt Abosrb strategies, also using Worry Seed on a partner is fun. Oh and the very cheap Explosion and Ghost

Boomguy
30th November 2008, 5:06 AM
pluslie and minum combos are good to

MangoMan16
30th November 2008, 5:29 AM
Trick room sets are the way I go :D

"Freak" owns
30th November 2008, 10:45 AM
explosion with a lickilicky after a curse, brongzong uses skill swap enableing licky liky to go first and i switch in the dusknoir making explosion not hit me

ManiaCrasH
30th November 2008, 11:38 AM
I use my staraptor and graveler...
Graveler use earthquake
Staraptor use fly..

rekreatur
30th November 2008, 12:35 PM
Send out two Pokémon with Water Absorb and make both use Surf xP

zm_
1st December 2008, 4:08 AM
Generally though you will be weak to Electric moves or Grass Moves.

Also I want to see a Pluse and Minun combo in battle.

yhyiannis
1st December 2008, 8:48 AM
The best I can think of is having a Flying type Pokemon and another Pokemon with the move Earthquake. I've used this and it helps out quite a bit.

Boomguy
1st December 2008, 1:09 PM
Generally though you will be weak to Electric moves or Grass Moves.

Also I want to see a Pluse and Minun combo in battle.

There are many youtube battles that features them check em out

EvilAzn
1st December 2008, 7:15 PM
Always have a screener of sorts and keep a wide variety of resistances along with immunities

Nolan Bentley
2nd December 2008, 4:49 AM
Trick-room (another poke) curse TTar

Rad3n
2nd December 2008, 8:37 AM
It involves a smeargle, an azelf and a breloom. Very complicated abuse of endeavour, fake out, explosion, salac berry and priority moves.

ash-bally
2nd December 2008, 4:53 PM
i use electriveire and luxray luxray attacks elecrive with electrick move to boost its speed and elecriveire to attack and that is all i am telling

Rhys29
2nd December 2008, 5:32 PM
The best I can think of is having a Flying type Pokemon and another Pokemon with the move Earthquake. I've used this and it helps out quite a bit.

This is a very common strategy, unfortunately it has one common weakness: Ice. Therefore, you're FAR better off replacing a flier with a Levitater such as Bronzong so that you have more type coverage.


Generally though you will be weak to Electric moves or Grass Moves.

Also I want to see a Pluse and Minun combo in battle.

Plus/Min combos are rediculously unfair. Unfortunately for them, Arcanine and Lucario are quite common and most come equipped with a speed priority move, out running what could be a straight sweep with Thunder/Thunderbolt and HP Grass. Good combo, watch out tho.


i use electriveire and luxray luxray attacks elecrive with electrick move to boost its speed and elecriveire to attack and that is all i am telling

One Earthquake = Death. Switch Luxray for Zapdos, that way you can take full advantage of Discharge's power and have both a Special and Physical Sweeper.

This is good guys. I am seeing a lot of discussion and that makes me happy! I may even contact some other sources and start a Doubles League. However, that would be after Christmas and I'm not promising anything, so don't read into it too much.

yhyiannis
2nd December 2008, 5:36 PM
This is a very common strategy, unfortunately it has one common weakness: Ice. Therefore, you're FAR better off replacing a flier with a Levitater such as Bronzong so that you have more type coverage.

Well, not if you put a Pelliper or a Skarmory right? But then they could just go and use Electricity...



Plus/Min combos are rediculously unfair. Unfortunately for them, Arcanine and Lucario are quite common and most come equipped with a speed priority move, out running what could be a straight sweep with Thunder/Thunderbolt and HP Grass. Good combo, watch out tho.

I've never seen a Plus/Min combo. What are they like?

Rhys29
2nd December 2008, 5:58 PM
Well, not if you put a Pelliper or a Skarmory right? But then they could just go and use Electricity...

Yes, and since the elemental punches and fangs are quite common, it's kind of a risk to go with those. Watch out too, since both of these guys' main form of recover is based on removing their immunity to ground, thus making Skarmory actually undersirable.


I've never seen a Plus/Min combo. What are they like?

These, in combonation, can literally sweep an entire team without having a set up move. Simply have both come onto the field, get the 1.5x bonus to their SpA from their abilities (normally capped at 273 will give them about 412) and spam Thunderbolt, HP Ice, Grass Knot, and Nasty Plot. Both of them are fast enough to set up a sweep and be that their movepool is limited, they have just enough to absolutely crush the opposition. However, it is a dangerous combo with several weakness.
1) One dies, the other loses it's boost and thus becomes mostly fodder since it is far harder to OHKO an enemy without the boost.
2) Earthquake is very common, and thus both would get raped in a dark alleyway and go home to take burning hot showers and cry due to their abysmal defence (min ~ max, 49 ~ 196).
3) Most other speed sweepers would crush these punks fast. A mixvire and mixape would almost have a field day with these guys.
4) Any physical move with speed priority is probably gonna wipe these guys out.
5) Anything with Choice Skarf would wail on these guys since they're almost garuanteed to go faster.
However, that being said, you could potentially cover this. Give one a Choice Scarf and the other Choice Specs and you have one really fast, overpowered disrupter and one rediculously overpowered second attacker (it's SpA would be about 616 with the specs, thus OHKO anything with a STAB thunderbolt but SpD wallers). And since you can switch them out at the same time whenever you see any problem, you can maybe keep them alive longer than most would think. If you really want to use them in a double battle team tho, put them with a RD team and replace Thunderbolt with Thunder so you can get a 25 base power damage boost, keep the 100% accuracy, and get an extra 20% para boost.
Used to their maximum these guys are a pair of way-too-powerful sweepers. However, unless you have plenty of experience playing them, they will most likely hold most teams not based on them back (even RD teams can find better uses for two slots). I'm not saying avoid them, but know they exist when you are making a team and fighting another.

yhyiannis
2nd December 2008, 6:21 PM
Ahhh I see. Thanks for the explanation :) I didn't really know most of that.

Rhys29
2nd December 2008, 6:34 PM
Yeah, they can be a useful strat if you are baton passing down the line (they would be absolutely rediculous if you batoned Agility and Nasty Plot or Calm Mind on them...). They just don't seem to have any other use than that and if one is out, the other is near useless. If you plan on even attempting to use them, make sure you atleast have a Vaporeon on your team as well.

THUNDER!!!
2nd December 2008, 6:37 PM
I send Empoleon and Staraptor out, then have Staraptor use Fly and Empoleon use Surf (its a pretty good combo!)

Rhys29
2nd December 2008, 6:45 PM
It involves a smeargle, an azelf and a breloom. Very complicated abuse of endeavour, fake out, explosion, salac berry and priority moves.

Smeargle uses Endure, gets Salac boost, has Endeavour, gets set up by Boomzelf, switch in Breloom for the Mach Punch kill on Endeavored enemies. lol did I get it? You're better off with Lucario, Metagross, or anything else that uses Bullet Punch instead of Breloom btw, since you're not going for a damaging stab and Ghosts will so far absolutely destroy your whole strat. If you are going to do this, you might want to invest Smeargle in a Ghost-slaying move just to stay ahead of the opponent since Metagar (Metagross + Gengar) is common.


Trick-room (another poke) curse TTar

I am a fan, but fast sweepers will get the jump on you. Make sure you have a wall using Trick Room so it's sure to get it off and start up the combo.


I use my staraptor and graveler...
Graveler use earthquake
Staraptor use fly..

Any water type with rape this combo with a vengeance. Water will kill your Graveler in one shot (if you are seriously going to use a Graveler, make it a Golem and switch in on a SS Trick Room combo, then they have some use) and almost every water type in the game can learn Ice beam and since most water types are speedy, they can outrun your Staraptor. Simply, a Vappy or RD team will rip this to shreds (plus, Fly = Useless unless you can perrfectly predict your opponent).


Generally though you will be weak to Electric moves or Grass Moves.

Also I want to see a Pluse and Minun combo in battle.

Hopefully my set up with quench your thirst. If not, there are the youtube.com videos you could check out.

THUNDER!!!

I like how your name is the bane of existence to your combo: you are so Elec. weak in this combo you have no idea. Thunder will hit you in the air (and since Fly is as I said useless, there's no point), OHKOing your Staraptor and OHKO - 2HKOing your Empoleon. And Elec's are almost all fast (ex of slow: Magnezone) so you wouldn't last too long in the majors.

NOTE: If any of you are wondering how to incorperate a poke into a DBT (Double Battle Team, if you didn't get it), then PM your quiere and i'll see what I can do.

the_eevee_breeder
2nd December 2008, 7:10 PM
I have mine attack whichever one they are good against. Simple.

Connorô
2nd December 2008, 7:15 PM
Gengar using skill swap on a regigigas, giving it levitate and a crazy attack stat ^^
this also works with slaking, and then the beast is loose to sweep ^^

Rhys29
2nd December 2008, 7:18 PM
I have mine attack whichever one they are good against. Simple.

...Okay, well it seems as though you have a good grasp on how to play the game. Other than that, I see absolutely nothing here.

NOTE: A big shout out to all the Water Absorb+Surfers out there. You are almost assured that you are going to face a Discharge team, which will eat your team alive. The best thing I can suggest to you is to have a Lanturn with Volt Absorb either as a starter or somewhere in your team. This way, you have a wall that can just soak up Discharge after Discharge. Make sure it also has HP Ground so you can wipe out Mixvires and other Elec. types if it gets the chance. Some may argue it's just better to avoid Elec in general and throw in a Water/Ground. This would be good if it wasn't for all the Grass Knot'ers out there. Not to mention most Discharge teams have atleast one guy with HP Grass (usually Zapdos), which would OHKO most of these options.

Ima Penguin 95

Yes, skill swap can be amazing if you play it right. You should, however, switch Gengar for something more suitable for the role, such as Slowking or Bronzong. There's no point in wasting a move on a sweeper if you're going to make it Skill Swap and then switch out (plus it also may get wiped out right after it uses it, thus making walls far more effective with it). Note: Those of you trying to avoid Skill Swap on Slaking by teaming it with something such as Worry Seed, you will be dissappointed to know it does not work.

Larry
2nd December 2008, 10:21 PM
I send Empoleon and Staraptor out, then have Staraptor use Fly and Empoleon use Surf (its a pretty good combo!)

Dude Fly is terrible.

pokemaster001
2nd December 2008, 10:32 PM
Dude Fly is terrible.

LIES!!!!!!!!!!!
fly is great for double battles and some other times, plus fly gets you everywhere really fast with no annoying wild battles or wasting max repels

anyway, mine are numerous and I don't want anyone to battle me and predict my moves but I'll just say I start with infernape and leafeon

Larry
2nd December 2008, 10:34 PM
LIES!!!!!!!!!!!
fly is great for double battles and some other times, plus fly gets you everywhere really fast with no annoying wild battles or wasting max repels

anyway, mine are numerous and I don't want anyone to battle me and predict my moves but I'll just say I start with infernape and leafeon

Mabey in-game but in WiFi Surf and Waterfall are the only good HM moves.

Rhys29
3rd December 2008, 12:46 AM
LIES!!!!!!!!!!!
fly is great for double battles and some other times, plus fly gets you everywhere really fast with no annoying wild battles or wasting max repels

anyway, mine are numerous and I don't want anyone to battle me and predict my moves but I'll just say I start with infernape and leafeon

dude... you understand Togekiss already rips open a new ******* for your team and then rapes it, right? Anyone want anymore combos looked at? (referencing the Min Plus combo earlier)

Fly is NOT useful! I can't stress this enough. You would have to have a rediculously large advantage over the enemy in order to use this move. Let me show you with the earlier example of Empoleon and Staraptor.

A) 1st turn: Zapdos uses Discharge, kills Staraptor and lowers Empoleon, boosts Mixvire, who finishes Empoleon with either T-Bolt or Cross Chop.

B) Staraptor somehow survives and uses Fly. Empoleon will take a beating and odds are die. Before Staraptor comes down, 1) the target will be obvious so they will know which poke to switch and 2) Discharge teams have Magnezone very commonly, with a x4 resist to Flying. If they don't have Zone, they will simply switch to a poke who can take it as if nothing happened.

C) Vs a RD (Rain Dance), smart users of Rain Dance will have (prolly) a Vappy or other water types that can take Surf like your poke sneezed on them. And if they are a smart DBT, they will have Lanturn with Thunder. This will hit your Staraptor in mid-air, with a stab and SE, it's base power is 360. Good luck taking that and surviving.

DO NOT use either Fly or Dig, they are both useless and even more so in DB's.

Give Em' Hell Kid
3rd December 2008, 12:46 AM
Mines pretty basic, Im just a fire type trainer

I Use Castform and Magmortar first, I get Castform to use Sunny Day and then Get Magmortar to use substitue (equipped with Leftovers), Then Ill either use Solar beam (because we all know fires are water bait) or Thunderpuch / Lava plume depending on the situation

meanwhile ill have Castform performing as secondary attack, and if he Faints i Use My Shiny Ninetails, Which i use as a Physical sweeper or ill use my Charizard equipped with Life orb for major attacks

Rhys29
3rd December 2008, 1:06 AM
Mines pretty basic, Im just a fire type trainer

I Use Castform and Magmortar first, I get Castform to use Sunny Day and then Get Magmortar to use substitue (equipped with Leftovers), Then Ill either use Solar beam (because we all know fires are water bait) or Thunderpuch / Lava plume depending on the situation

meanwhile ill have Castform performing as secondary attack, and if he Faints i Use My Shiny Ninetails, Which i use as a Physical sweeper or ill use my Charizard equipped with Life orb for major attacks

Not too horrid, but at the same time Fire, unfortunately, has never really be a strong type. You, my friend, will get destroyed in any DBT league so early your head will spin. Water Absorb + Surf is spammed wayyyyy too much. However, you do have a different opportunity on your hands, for this is one of the few ways to ever combat a RD team. You will have to keep VERY close watch on your Sunny Day, for it will be vital to the survival to your team. Magmortar should probably have Thunderbolt since it has 20 more base damage and Magmortar has a much high SpA. Also if you are going to open with Magmortar and have Lava Plume, you might as well open with your Ninetails, have it use Sunny Day and give it the Flash Fire boost in the same turn. You should really only pull out or even use Castform if you are constantly having to deal with shifting weather patterns, since otherwise he can't give you the same strength most other Fire choice can give you.

There is one way I have found to deal with pesky water teams if you want to give this guy a shot. Either use Meganium or Tangrowth (stick with Tangrowth since you'll be wanting to sit through Surfs with him) normally to combat this and give them Sunny Day so you don't have to stick it on one of you more offensive poke's. If you want to wipe out the enemy in a OHKO, you CAN use a Sunflora with Solar Power and Choice Specs on. This way, you get a whopping 3.38x boost on all your Solar Beams for only 1/8 your health each turn, that's also 6.86x if you attack water types, and if the opposition just happens to had a Swampert out (tho I doubt it), you get a 13.72x boost on your Solar Beam (lol I want to see a Swampert survive that head on). However, this is usually a bad choice unless you can back it properly, since other than it's above average SpA, Sunflora blows. Tropius can do the same thing and last longer, but you won't be hitting as hard.

BadIntent
3rd December 2008, 1:27 AM
DO NOT use either Fly or Dig, they are both useless and even more so in DB's.

They are not entirely useless. I've faced many an opponent who have used fly and dig as a way to avoid their partner's explosion or surf. It really doesn't matter who you chose to attack as you just (in the case of explosion) took out both of their pokemon anyway. Also it provides a turn of protection without completely wasting the turn for a speed booster w/baton pass. Granted, I don't use those moves, but they can still be effective.

As for my "best strategy", I open with Sableye and Gengar. Sableye uses fake out on the biggest threat to gengar. Gengar, possessing a brave nature and 3 IV in speed, uses trick room. Next turn, Gengar explodes and Sableye just finishes off whoever is left. It's almost guaranteed to go first with base 50 speed and a negative speed nature.

Rhys29
3rd December 2008, 1:41 AM
They are not entirely useless. I've faced many an opponent who have used fly and dig as a way to avoid their partner's explosion or surf. It really doesn't matter who you chose to attack as you just (in the case of explosion) took out both of their pokemon anyway. Also it provides a turn of protection without completely wasting the turn for a speed booster w/baton pass. Granted, I don't use those moves, but they can still be effective.

As for my "best strategy", I open with Sableye and Gengar. Sableye uses fake out on the biggest threat to gengar. Gengar, possessing a brave nature and 3 IV in speed, uses trick room. Next turn, Gengar explodes and Sableye just finishes off whoever is left. It's almost guaranteed to go first with base 50 speed and a negative speed nature.

You are better off using Protect or a Ghost type if you are going to use Explosion. Fly and Dig are too open in pro DB's. Dive, on the other hand, might actually be the only useful one. The best, if not only time, to use it is on the last turn off Trick Room, so you go first while it's up and then since speed normalizes, it attacks last, preventing hella damage. Not sure if anything can hit dive while it's active tho, and since the Pal Park transfer has you rid all HM moves, it's really hard to find someone with it.

I have to say I've always been a Sableye fan. This can work pretty well, tho other Trick Room teams will whipe the floor with you. You will have to match the opponents since a fast Double Attack could simply wipe out Gengar and leave Sableye high and dry. Also anything with a Priority move will frustrate you beyond belief, since it potentially cancel your entire strat. You MIGHT want to give Sableye Shadow Sneak just in case you face a slower poke or the Trick Room doesn't go through. You're going to have to find someone who would effectively cover all of Sableye's moves before I can truely rate this combo.

BadIntent
3rd December 2008, 2:01 AM
Yes, other trick room teams do have an advantage over mine, but then again, trick room teams generally have an advantage over any team weilding semi-fast to fast pokemon. For the record, sableye has fake out, shadow claw, will-o-wisp, and brick break. Mostly just coverage moves, but I will take your suggestion of shadow sneak into consideration. Usually if my opponent's pokemon look TR bound however (ex. Slowbro partered with a Snorlax), I fake out the potential TR'er and just have Gengar explode off the bat.

zm_
3rd December 2008, 2:08 AM
I have learnt the best strategy is adaptability. I try and cover as many possible strategies as well as making sure the main part of my team stays safe.

I still say having a plan B in most teams in case something goes astray.

G-S-C Fanatic
3rd December 2008, 2:14 AM
Even though I'm not really into the 4th Gen Battle Scene in 3rd Gen my best Double Battle Combo was Blissey and Slaking. Max out Blisseys Defense use Skill Swap with an Adamant Slaking and just stand back and watch everything fall.

zm_
3rd December 2008, 2:17 AM
I think you have forgotten what I call the theory of threats. What are people thinking is going to be more of a threat, the Slaking or the Blissey?

Which ever is the bigger threat will generally be attacked.d

BadIntent
3rd December 2008, 2:36 AM
I think you have forgotten what I call the theory of threats. What are people thinking is going to be more of a threat, the Slaking or the Blissey?

Which ever is the bigger threat will generally be attacked.d

So true. A defensive wall paired with offensive powerhouse often just gets ignored. Slaking will be subject to double attacks while blissey just kinda sits there.

@G-S-C you might consider using a pokemon more offensively capable that can hold its own with Truant; this way you can make up for Slaking getting ganged up on by having Slaking protect after it's lost Truant and have the partner attack instead sometimes. Just to keep your opponent guessing.

G-S-C Fanatic
3rd December 2008, 2:40 AM
Yeah that kind of happen alot, But my Blissey does know Seismic Toss which kind of helps.

Rhys29
3rd December 2008, 4:02 AM
Yes, other trick room teams do have an advantage over mine, but then again, trick room teams generally have an advantage over any team weilding semi-fast to fast pokemon. For the record, sableye has fake out, shadow claw, will-o-wisp, and brick break. Mostly just coverage moves, but I will take your suggestion of shadow sneak into consideration. Usually if my opponent's pokemon look TR bound however (ex. Slowbro partered with a Snorlax), I fake out the potential TR'er and just have Gengar explode off the bat.

Hmmm. Notice that if you were going up against either Slowbro or Lax, they would prolly survive the Explosion and get to kill your Sableye next turn. The one you should probably be Dusknoir. This way, if you really want, you can double burn your oppoenent with WOW, and you have a wall there supporting your Sableye. Definitely stick with Shadow Sneak, it's more versatile than Fake Out unless you plan on switch Sableye in and out of battle. If you keep that Shadow Sneak, you should stay ahead of the game. This is to say you have Keen Eye, if your ability is Stall, then you will always (unless foe has Priority or Item like lagging tail) first when Trick Room is up. Switch out Shadow Claw for Power Gem, since you will already have a stab Ghost and PG will give you really good coverage (if you're against something with Flashfire you're in trouble otherwise). If you are still up for breeding, you might want to look at incorperating Recover into that moveset, sinc you are using him for a staller, it would be invaluable. Now for your final slot (i do DBT's by 4 poke teams) i'd just suggest Spiritomb with similar moves to Sableye. If you want a tank of Spiritomb, give it Hypnosis, Pain Split, Dark Pulse, and either Confuse Ray/Torment/Tuant. If you want a more offensive choice, go with Curse, Faint Attack (always good to have one guy on your team that will always land a hit)/Sucker Punch, Shadow Sneak/Shadow Ball, and Hypnosis. This way, you can have a pretty fair, Trick Room/Ghost combo. Not the most effective, but I doubt you'll see anyone else using something like this. Make sure that your Dusknoir has Trick Room too. Also, if you are rebreeding your Sableye (or you want the most effective stats) go with either Brave or Quiet Nature and 212 Att, 252 SpA, and 44 HP.

Rainbowdashtheawesome
3rd December 2008, 4:17 AM
My double-earthquake combo. I pair up 2 pokemon which are both immune to ground-type attacks, teach both of them earthquake, and then just start some shake, rattle, and roll mayhem.

Rhys29
3rd December 2008, 4:47 AM
My double-earthquake combo. I pair up 2 pokemon which are both immune to ground-type attacks, teach both of them earthquake, and then just start some shake, rattle, and roll mayhem.

Whatch for Ice type attacks, for they will be what you're going to be worried about most. Just pack a Bronzong with you so you have a good Wall/Status/Levitater.

Boomguy
3rd December 2008, 5:31 AM
Whatch for Ice type attacks, for they will be what you're going to be worried about most. Just pack a Bronzong with you so you have a good Wall/Status/Levitater.

It doesn't mean ground types he means like Bronzong and Gyrados.

But using Non STAB moves are not strong unless there super effective or boosted attack power

Rhys29
3rd December 2008, 5:37 AM
It doesn't mean ground types he means like Bronzong and Gyrados.

But using Non STAB moves are not strong unless there super effective or boosted attack power

I know, I'm saying most pokemon who fit into this category are either Flying (weak to ice) or Ground (weak to ice). Dragons also are known for this combo, so it's good to keep like I said a Bronzong, or like you said a Gyarados, handy just in case.

BadIntent
3rd December 2008, 5:43 AM
Hmmm. Notice that if you were going up against either Slowbro or Lax, they would prolly survive the Explosion and get to kill your Sableye next turn. The one you should probably be Dusknoir. This way, if you really want, you can double burn your oppoenent with WOW, and you have a wall there supporting your Sableye. Definitely stick with Shadow Sneak, it's more versatile than Fake Out unless you plan on switch Sableye in and out of battle. If you keep that Shadow Sneak, you should stay ahead of the game. This is to say you have Keen Eye, if your ability is Stall, then you will always (unless foe has Priority or Item like lagging tail) first when Trick Room is up. Switch out Shadow Claw for Power Gem, since you will already have a stab Ghost and PG will give you really good coverage (if you're against something with Flashfire you're in trouble otherwise). If you are still up for breeding, you might want to look at incorperating Recover into that moveset, sinc you are using him for a staller, it would be invaluable. Now for your final slot (i do DBT's by 4 poke teams) i'd just suggest Spiritomb with similar moves to Sableye. If you want a tank of Spiritomb, give it Hypnosis, Pain Split, Dark Pulse, and either Confuse Ray/Torment/Tuant. If you want a more offensive choice, go with Curse, Faint Attack (always good to have one guy on your team that will always land a hit)/Sucker Punch, Shadow Sneak/Shadow Ball, and Hypnosis. This way, you can have a pretty fair, Trick Room/Ghost combo. Not the most effective, but I doubt you'll see anyone else using something like this. Make sure that your Dusknoir has Trick Room too. Also, if you are rebreeding your Sableye (or you want the most effective stats) go with either Brave or Quiet Nature and 212 Att, 252 SpA, and 44 HP.

Well, thank you for the suggestions. I sincerely appreciate it.
A couple things though:
-Sableye's defensive (and offensive stats for that matter) are... bad. Adding power gem would require me to take EV's out of HP (which I have maxed out) and stick them into Sp Atk. Given it's base 50 HP, 75 Def and 65 Sp Def, that doesn't leave it as much of a staller anymore. Even with recover.
-I like the idea of opening with Dusknoir, but then it kinda gives away that I'm using TR. I rely heavily on the element of surprise, which is why I use Gengar who can be bred to be deceptively slow. Besides even if Snorlax and Slowbro did survive the Explosion, 'Bro will flinch from fake out and 'Lax won't have enough HP to belly drum or put out a sub. Fake Out is a staple for me because it insures (1) Gengar won't be doubled up on (2) My opponent can't set up their trick room if they are in fact slower.

Pretty good suggestion with Spiritomb, though hypnosis is unreliable. As for the second WoW, I have a Weezing in the reserves for that.

And yes, I agree; on paper this trick room team isn't the most effective. However, the appearance of Sableye may make opponents get greedy and stat up while falling into Gengar's TR. I think it should be stated that the remaining members of my team are all UU, but in a double battle, high stats can be more easily overcome by deceptiveness due to the multitude of options. My team wins most of it's battles mainly because none of my opponents can get a jump on it on the first turn. You'd have to be hard pressed to come up with an opener that is immune to Fake Out, Explosion, and Trick Room.

Deboog
3rd December 2008, 5:55 AM
Uggg. So many EQ + Levitate and Skill Swap -> Gigas.

The most pwnage stratagy ever is Smeargle endures an explosion from Lickilicky (It's less predictable, and Licky gets stabbed kabooms) and gets Salac boost. Then Weavile comes in a Fakes-Out the opponent while Smearlge spores the other. Then it's just Endeavor and Pursuit for the rest of the game.

It's Old School, but it owns.

Rhys29
3rd December 2008, 6:09 AM
Well, thank you for the suggestions. I sincerely appreciate it.
A couple things though:
-Sableye's defensive (and offensive stats for that matter) are... bad. Adding power gem would require me to take EV's out of HP (which I have maxed out) and stick them into Sp Atk. Given it's base 50 HP, 75 Def and 65 Sp Def, that doesn't leave it as much of a staller anymore. Even with recover.
-I like the idea of opening with Dusknoir, but then it kinda gives away that I'm using TR. I rely heavily on the element of surprise, which is why I use Gengar who can be bred to be deceptively slow. Besides even if Snorlax and Slowbro did survive the Explosion, 'Bro will flinch from fake out and 'Lax won't have enough HP to belly drum or put out a sub. Fake Out is a staple for me because it insures (1) Gengar won't be doubled up on (2) My opponent can't set up their trick room if they are in fact slower.

Pretty good suggestion with Spiritomb, though hypnosis is unreliable. As for the second WoW, I have a Weezing in the reserves for that.

And yes, I agree; on paper this trick room team isn't the most effective. However, the appearance of Sableye may make opponents get greedy and stat up while falling into Gengar's TR. I think it should be stated that the remaining members of my team are all UU, but in a double battle, high stats can be more easily overcome by deceptiveness due to the multitude of options. My team wins most of it's battles mainly because none of my opponents can get a jump on it on the first turn. You'd have to be hard pressed to come up with an opener that is immune to Fake Out, Explosion, and Trick Room.

I see your way of putting it. I was more on the idea you wanted Sableye to be a Mixhit. If you want a staller, there are other suggestions to be made. However, you are relying too much on predicting your opponent's predictability. Your combo will work pretty well in UU, but don't put all your cards into your opponent not finding your move set and blowing it. Btw, Dusknoir is common in double battles, and will rip your beginning strat a new one. That's why I suggest that you have Shadow Sneak on Sableye if you are going to keep him out against either Bulky Ghosts or Psychic. But unfortunately, he doesn't pack enough power to really get his job done, no offense. Also Fake Out has more limited uses since in DB's your job is to get the set team out that can wipe out the opposition. If you switch him out too much, your switch into'er may be looking at two attacks, so it's far more reliable to give him Shadow Sneak. He also gets a stab, so don't forget that. Spiritomb is Bulky enough to have Hypnosis miss once or twice, and a sleeping poke is almost guaranteed to switch. If you want to put more money on predicting your opponents, plug Pursuit into one of it's other move slots. This will help you get the jump on guys try to switch up for more def or off. I, personally, am very sad with the new physical and special attack switches when it comes to sad cases like Weezing. He has no moves, save for Gunk Shot, that he can get a stab with it's attack backing it. And Gunk Shot's acc. is anything but reliable. However, if you play the Bulky, Destiny Bond, Pain Split, WOW, Explosion Weezing you should be okay especially in this team.

Deboog ~

*sigh* yes, I am sad to say there are a couple techniques that are very simple and are spammed like crazy. Btw, for your combo, you might want to rethink it up to an extent. Priority moves are becoming more and more popular, and most teams carry a revenge killer and you might see Pursuit here or there, so if you are to use a combo dealing with Focus Band, Endure, and Low HP berries, you are going to have to be careful. There is also the chance that the opponent is going to see Smeargle and simply hit it twice on the first turn, making your strat null and void.

zm_
3rd December 2008, 6:10 AM
Well I think every strategy can be overcome one way or another generally on the opponents part.

For example:
For Skill swaps I either phaze out the skill swaped guy, or go all out against him.
Trick Rooms I generally pack my own slower pokes, two generally.
Weather Teams I try to pack my own poke to take advantage of it.

Has anyone watched some of the Youtube doubles battles, its really bad to watch some of the teams as they just eat themselves alive. Granted there have been some good battles here and there.

Also its nice to see that sleeping an opponent gets a mention.

edit: Hopefully I can start a doubles tournament soon (once the other tournament goes inactive) to gauge interest in a doubles league.

Rhys29
3rd December 2008, 6:25 AM
I actually discovered (I beleive) the fastest way to make a poke pretty much OHKO most poke's in a double battle with a very simple tactic (i'm sure this is going to get spammed at some point).

Simply have a Medicham and Marowak in play. The the Wak will obviously be equipped with Thick Club, doubling it's attack and making it a threat right away. Now, if you can play your cards right, open with a different set of poke's and have it use Trick Room and give Medicham Lagging Tail, that way you can just start sweeping. So right now, you have a base 45 speed poke in Trick Room with a capped attack of 568. Already good right there. Make Medicham use Skill Swap. This will give Wak Pure Power as his ability, doubling his attack. This gives him a grand total of 1136 attack without increasing his attack through buff moves (you can do that if you want to breathe on an enemy to break every bone in it's body, since it's attack absolutely capped is 4546 Att. Recockulous. Btw, if you want to know just how strong that is, I calculated how much an EQ from this guy would do to a Shuckle with capped Def [614]. It would deal roughly 865 damage). He can OHKO a Skarm with Fire Punch. Anything with a ground type weakness with be absolutely slaughtered by Earthquake (you should have switch Medicham out immediately after this with a slow levitator like Bronzong). Any Water poke's posing a threat will be destroyed by Thunderpunch, or you could change your coverage and wipe out other types with Stone Edge (more powerful, less accurate, covers about the same shiz).

Yeah, I know. Really really strong attacker. Now, there are a few things you gotta watch for.
1) Wak does NOT have a good way to protect himself from Special moves, since his SpD is megear at best and if Trick Room isn't up he's prey to special sweepers.
2) Priority moves may wittle him down and he doesn't have a solid amount of HP.
3) It takes a little bit to set up, so you may try to use it, but you might get shut down before you do.
With this in mind, if you DO use this combo, make sure you got back up guys who can use Trick Room and such effectively.

Another little strat for you out there who want to use Baton Pass more effectively. Medicham can learn Bulk Up and Calm Mind. Now this wouldn't be too useful of information unless you knew you can also breed into Baton Pass. If you give him Recover as well, you might actually have a chance of maxing out Att, Def, SpA, and SpD before Baton Passing to something that doesn't need the speed boost from Baton Pass. However, a single poke with Haze, Roar, or Whirlwind will stop this in it's tracks and Medicham isn't the best defender. If you can manage to keep him alive long enough (you're gonna want your other poke using moves such as Reflect and Light Screen to help out), you can pass to make an oncoming poke God.

firelovindocker
3rd December 2008, 9:17 AM
i just genarraly use my starmie and charizard
starmie to weaken then them
charizard to hit hit
seems simple and weak
you'd be suprised

Rhys29
3rd December 2008, 9:38 AM
i just genarraly use my starmie and charizard
starmie to weaken then them
charizard to hit hit
seems simple and weak
you'd be suprised

Don't know what you mean by 'weaken them' (probably meaning softening up the enemy with attacks, not defensive dropping moves), but it's alright as a speed team. Not the best protection, Discharge, once again, will eat both of your guys alive. And you are depriving Starmie of a STAB Surf. Luckily, both have good attack coverage, so you might do okay...

Rad3n
3rd December 2008, 10:18 AM
@ Deboog

you need a fast explosioner (preferably Azelf though in the past Electrode / Gengar).

barath
3rd December 2008, 10:50 AM
umm.. only a small one.. but could be quite handy..

a pokemon with swagger/flatter with a pokemon with own tempo ability

use that pokemon which has swagger/flatter on ur own teammate which has own tempo ability.. in this case.. only its attack/sp.att gets raised.. but no confusion will occur.

quite handy.. :)

JaimeGreenan
3rd December 2008, 11:26 AM
I use a risky strategy.
Crobat with Rhyperior so Electric doesn't harm Crobat because of LightningRod ability.
I kno a Blizzard could wipe it out.

Boomguy
3rd December 2008, 12:16 PM
I use a risky strategy.
Crobat with Rhyperior so Electric doesn't harm Crobat because of LightningRod ability.
I kno a Blizzard could wipe it out.

Yeah once you see an Ice team your screwed, I'd say Discharge is more popular than single targeted moves but you usually can tell if thier gonna use discharge for e.g. Rotom and Jolteon or Lanturn

Tell me guys if you do this, Using Surf when your teamate is a grass type, or using Discharge when your team mate is a Grass type, or using Lava Plume on a water/rock type team mate

Yoshifan22
3rd December 2008, 12:21 PM
Flygon- Jolly@ choice band
252 atk/ 252 speed/ 6 hp
- earthquake, dragon claw, stone edge, crunch

Zapdos- timid@ choice specs
252 sp.ark/ 252 speed/ 6 hp
- discharge, heat wave, Hidden Power [ice], u-turn

* simply let them sweep with a, ussually, EQ + Discharge. They bring in a flying to take the eq, get discharged. someone brings in a ground to take the discharge, and they get eq'd. This combo can be done with several diffrent pokemon, but these 2 ( it used to be garchomp instead of flygon, but it got banned, and ehh )

Boomguy
3rd December 2008, 12:26 PM
I like My Pinsir, Charizard Start

EQ on Pinsir to hit those Leviating oppoenants and Charizard to Heat Wave, but yeah those Zapdos, Chomp or Flygon is more annoying and i've only seen 1 good youtube video that prevents those starts Yoshi

Yoshifan22
3rd December 2008, 12:29 PM
Yea, I havn't really tested it out, but a charizard heat waving would work as well...

zm_
3rd December 2008, 2:22 PM
That was a good Video Boom but its rather impractical to do that on Wi-Fi as its hard to get a person into a free level battle.

Boomguy
3rd December 2008, 2:30 PM
That was a good Video Boom but its rather impractical to do that on Wi-Fi as its hard to get a person into a free level battle.

yes i just realized that its impossible to copy the exact thing on wifi but it gives a good idea

Rhys29
3rd December 2008, 5:01 PM
Flygon- Jolly@ choice band
252 atk/ 252 speed/ 6 hp
- earthquake, dragon claw, stone edge, crunch

Zapdos- timid@ choice specs
252 sp.ark/ 252 speed/ 6 hp
- discharge, heat wave, Hidden Power [ice], u-turn

* simply let them sweep with a, ussually, EQ + Discharge. They bring in a flying to take the eq, get discharged. someone brings in a ground to take the discharge, and they get eq'd. This combo can be done with several diffrent pokemon, but these 2 ( it used to be garchomp instead of flygon, but it got banned, and ehh )

Really Ice weak, so you are going to have to watch for Lapras and any other poke who can use Blizzard, since odds are it will take your Flygon out and take a huge chunk out of your Zapdos. Choice sets for starters work, but there is always the chance of being shut down, so make sure you got a good back up for each of your guys incase one goes.


I use a risky strategy.
Crobat with Rhyperior so Electric doesn't harm Crobat because of LightningRod ability.
I kno a Blizzard could wipe it out.

I am glad to see people now looking at their common weakness. Also note that Crobat doesn't have a lot of SpD, so a STAB Surf might crush him as well. I know Lightning Rod is a very tempting ability to have on Rhyperior, but Grass Knot and Surf are rediculously common, so the only way he can really survive is to switch in at the right time. Crobat I have to say can work well with a number of other pokes as a speedy set up. Either they can deal a solid hit with Brave Bird (as long as you bread it in) to set up for another move to finish it off. They can also learn Hypnosis and are rediculously fast, so that helps. I don't know if you want, but a good idea might be to give him Giga Drain as well. His SpA is nothing that the enemy will worry about, however Crobat's defensive abilities will not stand the test of time. Seeing as there are a lot of Earthquakers (rock and ground types are almost guaranteed) and Surfers, it is a good back up and surprise attack in my opinion.

~ Boomguy

Your team is very Rock weak, watch for that. Make sure you got Pinser with a Fighting move (i know you're smart enough to have one, just letting others know) so you can take out the occasional Probopass and other Rock threats without any real challenge. A Charizard Heat Wave works, but if you are playing WiFi, stick with Moltres for the far superior SpA. Otherwise stick with a mixed Charizard and you're fine.

Boomguy
3rd December 2008, 10:14 PM
~ Boomguy

Your team is very Rock weak, watch for that. Make sure you got Pinser with a Fighting move (i know you're smart enough to have one, just letting others know) so you can take out the occasional Probopass and other Rock threats without any real challenge. A Charizard Heat Wave works, but if you are playing WiFi, stick with Moltres for the far superior SpA. Otherwise stick with a mixed Charizard and you're fine.

I know what i'm doing Pinsir has choice Scarf so it can outrun anything and I'd prefer Charizard because it knows Dragon moves unlike Moltres and Charizard has superior speed than Moltres to. I usually gang up on my threats

chimkong
3rd December 2008, 10:41 PM
I use one physical and one special sweeper of different types and type coverage (e.g. Salamence and Mimagius).......Or i use a sweeper and a stat-booster slow pkmn (e.g. Infernape and Slobro)......

Rhys29
4th December 2008, 12:25 AM
I know what i'm doing Pinsir has choice Scarf so it can outrun anything and I'd prefer Charizard because it knows Dragon moves unlike Moltres and Charizard has superior speed than Moltres to. I usually gang up on my threats

Ah, you never mentioned it was a Scarf Pinser. Yeah, that is a pretty good combo. A Scarfcross is VERY dangerous to you tho. It'll either beat or match the speed of your Pinser, and it'll come with Rock Slide which may kill both (i'll check).


I use one physical and one special sweeper of different types and type coverage (e.g. Salamence and Mimagius).......Or i use a sweeper and a stat-booster slow pkmn (e.g. Infernape and Slobro)......

This works, but a stat booster only really works if it's defensively in DB. If they see you setting up for a hit, they're gonna focus on that guy. Go with Suicune, he is perfect with the Calm Mind set. Other wise, it might be wise to set up a Baton Pass instead and switch out to a powered up guy that works well with the other poke you already have out.

~ Boomguy

Okay, so if Rock Slide hits your Pinser with the base Def of a neutral nature (205), it will put you down to about 1 HP or so (crippled). Charizard will be out in one hit.

Nerofrost
4th December 2008, 12:32 AM
I've used this strategy sometimes in the Battle Tower in my Diamond, it has some flaws but, it works in the BT.

Raticate@Choice Band
Adamant
252/atk 252/speed 4/hp

Mightyena@Choice Scarf
Adamant
252/atk 252/speed 4/hp

First turn Quick Attack with Raticate with STAB and Band to deal damage. Then follow up with an Assurance from a pretty fast Myghtyena with STAB.
It's kind of weird and I discovered it by just mixing pokes, maybe it can be done with more powerful pokemon for more success. The other two pokes for the team were just random fillers, but this strategy got me to 21 wins on it's own. I'll try it from 22 and after to see how it works agains stronger pokes.

Rhys29
4th December 2008, 12:48 AM
I've used this strategy sometimes in the Battle Tower in my Diamond, it has some flaws but, it works in the BT.

Raticate@Choice Band
Adamant
252/atk 252/speed 4/hp

Mightyena@Choice Scarf
Adamant
252/atk 252/speed 4/hp

First turn Quick Attack with Raticate with STAB and Band to deal damage. Then follow up with an Assurance from a pretty fast Myghtyena with STAB.
It's kind of weird and I discovered it by just mixing pokes, maybe it can be done with more powerful pokemon for more success. The other two pokes for the team were just random fillers, but this strategy got me to 21 wins on it's own. I'll try it from 22 and after to see how it works agains stronger pokes.

Not bad. Assurance is an overlooked move and it can be devistating (since it's base power is boosted to 100) attack. I would stay away from Mighteyena tho. His move pool is mediocre at best (with the bred in elemental fangs serving some purpose) but his attack really is not enough for him to be a viable threat. If you still want to use this combo (it's not that bad) switch out Mighteyena with a Weavile and replace the Raticate with a Bullet Punch Scizor (this way you can still hit Ghost types and you'll deal more damage with a much more versatile poke). Besides a good fighter would wipe out this party really fast, especially Luke since he has x2 resist to Normal and x4 resist to Dark. On the new team, look out for Arcanine.

BadIntent
4th December 2008, 2:48 AM
I've used this strategy sometimes in the Battle Tower in my Diamond, it has some flaws but, it works in the BT.

Raticate@Choice Band
Adamant
252/atk 252/speed 4/hp

Mightyena@Choice Scarf
Adamant
252/atk 252/speed 4/hp

First turn Quick Attack with Raticate with STAB and Band to deal damage. Then follow up with an Assurance from a pretty fast Myghtyena with STAB.


Nice opener there. I personally like the use of those two often disregarded pokes. I mean you could substitute for different pokemon, but the fact that this strategy is quite out of the ordinary and probably unexpected is definitely it's greatest asset. Rhys29 probably nailed it on the two you might want to swap in order to battle beefier pokemon who can take QA and Assurance. The only real constructive criticism I have for you is to be wary of protect because you're gonna be doubling up on one poke. If your opponent guesses right, that will leave both of your guys up a creek.

I'm curious to see how this team fairs as it progresses through the BT.

Rhys29
4th December 2008, 3:03 AM
As a note to the Assurance Tech, there are several other ways you can get Assurance to deal it's full potential easily. The problem is, faster pokes will probably not be to afraid of this if they can out run you, since they can pick off either of these two weak defenders and just watch as the attack bounces off them. If you want to get a jump on faster enemies, use Will O Wisp. This way, every time they attack, they will recieve damage, thus fueling Assurance's fire. This way you also get some defensive coverage with the attack reduction.

Nerofrost
4th December 2008, 3:59 AM
Wow, thanks for the replies guys. As I said, this was just a random combo I came up with while using random pokes, but I will deffinetively take your tips to consideration. And as soon as I get Platinum, when it comes out, I'll try it out with BP Scizor and Weavile as Rhys29 suggested.

I was also thinking of using a Scarfed Rampardos for the Assurance hit, but it's still weak to fighting and limits its uses, plus its defences suck badly. I think I'll start planning a strategy with this, taking priority moves and items into deep consideration. I'll come back and update as soon as I manage to get a decent team/strategy out of this and I'll post how it did in the late rounds of the BT.

Rhys29
4th December 2008, 4:21 AM
Wow, thanks for the replies guys. As I said, this was just a random combo I came up with while using random pokes, but I will deffinetively take your tips to consideration. And as soon as I get Platinum, when it comes out, I'll try it out with BP Scizor and Weavile as Rhys29 suggested.

I was also thinking of using a Scarfed Rampardos for the Assurance hit, but it's still weak to fighting and limits its uses, plus its defences suck badly. I think I'll start planning a strategy with this, taking priority moves and items into deep consideration. I'll come back and update as soon as I manage to get a decent team/strategy out of this and I'll post how it did in the late rounds of the BT.

Scarf Rampardos, some people do not understand, can actually WORK! GASP! Like you said, it's Def is absolute crap, but the bonus is that it's attack is so high, some argue you don't even need to bother powering it up (i would go with an Adamant Nature and depending on IV's, boost it to just 400). However, it is a tough guy to work with. His partner almost needs to be a screener, Slowbro probably being your best bet since he could be seen as a threat as well so they may have to rethink focusing solely on Rampardos. You are polly going to also have to Agility/Baton Pass him in so he can get a good speed boost on a lot of enemies. If you're gonna do that, go with Jolly Nature, 252 Spe, get 400 in Att and dump the rest in HP. A few guys who would be good at this are Ninjask, Ambipom, and Lopunny (you might want to go with Lopunny since it has the best survivability with it's above average defenses and Cute Charm to boot). If you can boost Speed to about the 3rd or 4th level, you're set. Here are a couple things you could do with his moves.
1) Pursuit - If you Baton Pass him in, you're almost garaunteed that one or more guys are gonna switch out (usually for a Bullet Puncher like Scizor), so you can score a really strong attack on them if you play it right. Plus if you hit em on the run, you won't be locked into Pursuit.
2) Head Smash - If you're gonna use this move, Baton Pass him in with a Substitute. Many say it is useless since you kill yourself so fast. Yet it deals over 300 damage to a poke with 250 Def, not applying weakness or resistance. That's good enough.
3) Earthquake - Enough said.
4) Rock Polish - If you don't plan on a Scarf, you're gonna want this. It's a must in order to use this guy.
5) Sword Dance - Dear God. If you get one off his attack is now 800. Death.
Swap Stone Edge for Rock Slide if you are questioning that move for his set, btw. He can work very well if you also got Sandstorm up, giving him a pinch of defense if he needs it (a good screener with resistance to SS would be Claydol, but if you do that you almost have to have the plat tutor give Rampardos Thunderpunch so you wont just go be bait for Surf). Useful if you can pull him off.

Boomguy
4th December 2008, 5:04 AM
speaking of Choice Scarf unusual pokemon another 1 i'm seeing lately is Choice Scarfing Magnezone

Rhys29
4th December 2008, 5:17 AM
speaking of Choice Scarf unusual pokemon another 1 i'm seeing lately is Choice Scarfing Magnezone

Eh, it works. Really just time it by coming in on a BP Scizor and game. That way you can get off a T-Bolt before he can U-Turn or Superpower ya.

BadIntent
4th December 2008, 5:47 AM
A scarfed Magnezone in doubles? That's mainy!- err cool. I was going to use one of those on my all-steel team, but decided instead to go with Magneton with a Salac Berry. I've never actually seen a choice scarfed 'Zone in practice, but I can imagine it being awesome late game after the ground types are eliminated.

Well while we're on the topic of scarfs, I just battled the best hailstorm team I've faced in a good minute. The battle came down to a life orbed Froslass and a scarfed Glalie. Glalie spams blizzard, while Froslass picks at the opponent's weaknesses with a variety of special attacks for coverage. It worked really well. I'm sure the Glalie had explosion and would have used that instead, but my opponent got to scout my team (I play on Battle Revolution) and saw that I had a ghost.

Rhys29
4th December 2008, 5:58 AM
A scarfed Magnezone in doubles? That's mainy!- err cool. I was going to use one of those on my all-steel team, but decided instead to go with Magneton with a Salac Berry. I've never actually seen a choice scarfed 'Zone in practice, but I can imagine it being awesome late game after the ground types are eliminated.

Well while we're on the topic of scarfs, I just battled the best hailstorm team I've faced in a good minute. The battle came down to a life orbed Froslass and a scarfed Glalie. Glalie spams blizzard, while Froslass picks at the opponent's weaknesses with a variety of special attacks for coverage. It worked really well. I'm sure the Glalie had explosion and would have used that instead, but my opponent got to scout my team (I play on Battle Revolution) and saw that I had a ghost.

Yeah, Skarf Glalie is what you're gonna see a lot in DB's or any of it's Choice brethren. However, since there is a lack of solid Ice types, Blizzard teams are usually picked apart by Sunny Day and Heatrans in people's teams. If anyone is attempting to make one, make sure they have atleast 2 in their six with good defences and Hail. This way, you can spam a 100% acc. Blizzard with two poke's (hopefully) every turn. This will eat most def's rediculously quick. Lapras is a good choice since it can also Thunder any waters (which will help you against RD teams). And make sure you give one guy Earthquake (to deal with Fire and Steel).

AEROBLASTER
4th December 2008, 8:13 AM
My strategy usually involves me killing my own pokemon, not always intentionally...

Rhys29
4th December 2008, 8:17 AM
My strategy usually involves me killing my own pokemon, not always intentionally...

There are very few ways to use this effectively besides Explosion (Destiny Bond and the other moves that activate it the pokemon dies such as Lunar Dance) and the pokes that you would be taking out would prolly have much more going for them if you keep em in.

PokemonPrincessSarah
4th December 2008, 10:36 AM
I use Darkrai to put my opponent's Pokemon to sleep, I eat their dreams, whilst using full brute force with my other Pokemon.

It usually works. But the problem is, I can't use my Darkrai in online wi-fi battles.

Rhys29
4th December 2008, 10:39 AM
I use Darkrai to put my opponent's Pokemon to sleep, I eat their dreams, whilst using full brute force with my other Pokemon.

It usually works. But the problem is, I can't use my Darkrai in online wi-fi battles.

Not to mention Dark Void is (if they want it to be fair to everyone...) going to be banned from DB tournaments, as with my upcoming one. Using Darkrai in a DB is a given, he is argueably the best DB poke to have.

noobiess
4th December 2008, 10:46 AM
actually htis is intressting... i'm thinking of some good strategies for doebles battls... laready found 2 but believe their many more... i think those EQ and discharge is't really helpful... many team are like that so than it's just ground pokemon vs groung pokemon and electric vs electric

Rhys29
4th December 2008, 10:58 AM
actually htis is intressting... i'm thinking of some good strategies for doebles battls... laready found 2 but believe their many more... i think those EQ and discharge is't really helpful... many team are like that so than it's just ground pokemon vs groung pokemon and electric vs electric

1) Learn English.
2) Never say Earthquake is bad in DB's.
3) Never say Discharge is bad in DB's.
4) It occures to most people that 'duh, hey, maybe their gonna use the same guys as me?' That's why you plan around it.

Boomguy
4th December 2008, 11:05 AM
1) Learn English.
2) Never say Earthquake is bad in DB's.
3) Never say Discharge is bad in DB's.
4) It occures to most people that 'duh, hey, maybe their gonna use the same guys as me?' That's why you plan around it.

give him a break hes not from a country that english is the main langauge.

but yeah many of the doubles teams are very alike in strats like EQ, levitator or flying. you rarely see something unusual and different

edit: Also a rare thing i see is the use of the ability Damp to prevent explosions

Rhys29
4th December 2008, 11:24 AM
give him a break hes not from a country that english is the main langauge.

but yeah many of the doubles teams are very alike in strats like EQ, levitator or flying. you rarely see something unusual and different

edit: Also a rare thing i see is the use of the ability Damp to prevent explosions

Glad you brought that up. Damp is a useful ability, but it is only if you can see the move coming and set up a switch. Otherwise, it's a wasted ability to many pokes who could have better. Golduck, Poliwrath, Politoad and Quagsire (lol Quagsire) are the only guys you would see have this ability. Out of all these, Politoad would be the best to have. His other ability is Water Absorb, but since he has high SpD, you don't really need to worry about a surf doing anything to him. All the others have abilities that are far too valuable to switch for this (Golduck has Cloud Nine to combat weather teams while Quag and Wrath have Water Absorb). If you want to use Politoad with Damp, simply use him as a set up for Perish Song. Have a wall next to him and have it prevent the other two enemies from escaping, then have it sit there behind a sub and use Hyper Voice and Ice Punch to weaken guys down. Then on their last turn, they'll realize they can't even explode to get your two guys about to switch in with. It works if you keep him as a back up to known Exploders (Gengar, Heatran, Weezing, etc.). You can also wait until an enemy is low on health and is a known Exploder, making their last turn null and void (useful, but a BP Scizor mops up pretty good).

Boomguy
4th December 2008, 11:34 AM
yeah it would be very hard to prevent it and yeah those other pokemons abilities are better.

Another Rare thing i see is Hitting you own team mate with a non very effective move. Like Earthquake hitting a Grass type partner like Tangrowth

Rakki-neko
4th December 2008, 11:44 AM
Okay I got the best strategy of them all. You have a ditto trained in HP and speed and a normally train shedinja (It's like in speed and attack, i think). Now hopefully the ditto out speeds everything and transforms into the shedinja, and since transform passes everything except HP, you know have two shedinja, one with 1 HP and one with what every the ditto had. Now shedinja can stand to take a hit.

Rhys29
4th December 2008, 11:45 AM
yeah it would be very hard to prevent it and yeah those other pokemons abilities are better.

Another Rare thing i see is Hitting you own team mate with a non very effective move. Like Earthquake hitting a Grass type partner like Tangrowth

Hmmm. There is always the option of surprise. Would you think you're opponent would use Earthquake while they have something they can hit as it's partner? Odds are, they're gonna drop their guard when it comes to something as crafty as this. Tangrowth is an EXCELLENT example. It can be played in both EQ and Sunny Day teams. Growth has huge Def (capped at 383 I believe) and resistance to Earthquake, so hitting it with one probably won't do it any harm. If you have a Sunny Day team, most guys carry atleast one Electric or Discharger on their team to wipe out Surfers. Unfortunately, Tangrowth doesn't have a high enough SpD to deal with too many of these shots, but he can work better than most on this kind of team since he can have the ability Leaf Guard and be protected from the Para side effect (and also solves your problem of a wall and stat absorber on Sunny Day teams, which is understandably hard to find). As long as you got some way to give him constant health (Synthesis would be BEAST since you recover max HP) than you're in fine shape (tho Ice is common on Surfers so watch out). Also, since he's one of the few consistantly reliable Grass type, he'll most likely walk all over RD or Surf teams. This can work but it can backfire. You have a chance that the hit will actually end up wiping him out this turn or the enemy might not even care and just go for that guy instead. Don't ever over-predict any opponent.

Rakki-Neko

1) Transform will not transfer the abilities of the targetted poke.
2) Shedinja's strat isn't about taking one hit, it's about taking no hits.

Alright attempt, but research the moves a little better before hand. Check up and down this forum, you might find something you like.

PiplupMan
6th December 2008, 10:01 AM
Make sure one has water asobant then use surf!

YAY! 60 Posts!

Rhys29
6th December 2008, 11:22 AM
Make sure one has water asobant then use surf!

YAY! 60 Posts!

Lol spammed. NEXT!

noobiess
6th December 2008, 4:38 PM
1) Learn English.
2) Never say Earthquake is bad in DB's.
3) Never say Discharge is bad in DB's.
4) It occures to most people that 'duh, hey, maybe their gonna use the same guys as me?' That's why you plan around it.


but i think their other strategies that could be more effectif... and i really don't suck that hard in English but i type reall fast and with many faults...

kev40293
6th December 2008, 6:36 PM
i usually have two sweepers
a special and a physical
they outspeed everything
and i have them take out whatever they can

Rhys29
6th December 2008, 8:39 PM
but i think their other strategies that could be more effectif... and i really don't suck that hard in English but i type reall fast and with many faults...

True, there are many other techniques that work better, I even watched as a rediculously good combo (Zapdos and Garchomp) got eaten by a Bronzong and a LEVEL ONE!!!! Weather Effects can also give you a huge upper hand (have Tangrowth and Exceggutor get the speed boost from Chlorophyl and let them just mop up) on the opponent, and several little combos can turn the entire tide of the match. Think Leer, Tail Whip, and Growl still suck balls? They might in most situations, but in a double battle you can drop opponents stat by a third with one use. I wouldn't recommend them, but it's still something to keep in mind. Especially if they have a SpD wall spamming both these moves, gettin the bulky or sweeper a huge advantage. There are many more tech's that can do better than these, but just the plain usability of these are just so high, it's hard to resist. That's kinda why I made this thread, so I could see more than just the basics.


i usually have two sweepers
a special and a physical
they outspeed everything
and i have them take out whatever they can

Good, until you hit Bronzong or a Priority or a wall. It can work, but only if you manage to rip apart the opponent's strat before they can get it set up. If not, you're really boned.

NOTE: In a DB, EVERY POKE SHOULD BE ABLE TO BENEFIT OR BENEFIT FROM EVERY OTHER POKE IN YOUR PARTY IN SOME WAY!!! This way, if you lose one, you're not out of options. Either each of them should get a boost from some effect of one, two, or one should be supporting the other (ex: Shuckle is a MONSTER at this). If you team has say one guy you uses Surf and one guy who is weak to it in your team, rethink it. You never want to be left in a corner.

tumtwig
7th December 2008, 12:01 AM
i started a new file so staying alive with onix's harden and tertwig's absorb.;095;;387;

Surfer pikachu
7th December 2008, 4:26 AM
I do not fight too much on doubles but my bro fights on them very well with a
sandstorm trick room team that is nearly unbeatable really

Rhys29
7th December 2008, 4:36 AM
I do not fight too much on doubles but my bro fights on them very well with a
sandstorm trick room team that is nearly unbeatable really

SS teams are picked apart by RD teams, sorry to inform you. Since the two pokes that the SS teams rely on most are both weak to water (T-Tar and Down). However, this is prominently the most effective combo you can go with, since everything that benefits from SS usually benefits from TR as well. If you can get the set from your bro, post it on here. I would love to see it.

Falco320
8th December 2008, 10:49 PM
well one of my favorites is Dusknoir and Gengar. Dusknoir does Earthquake and Gengar does explosion.

DLO
8th December 2008, 11:38 PM
Regigigas with Slowking, Slowking do Skill Swap, Regigigas pwnz with Crush Grip.

ShuckleRules96
9th December 2008, 2:25 AM
Mabey in-game but in WiFi Surf and Waterfall are the only good HM moves.

Yea pretty much...Except rock smash is both common and effective on Absol.

Rhys29
9th December 2008, 6:06 AM
well one of my favorites is Dusknoir and Gengar. Dusknoir does Earthquake and Gengar does explosion.
lol, Bronzong, (common lead), Gengar, and Skarm laughs at this. Plus keep in mind running a start up with two of the same type is not smart.

Regigigas with Slowking, Slowking do Skill Swap, Regigigas pwnz with Crush Grip.
Give Slowking Trick Room and go to town. If you're not running Trick Room, go with a defensive, team boost Shuckle:

Shuckle@Leftovers
Sassy, Sturdy
252 Hp, 252 Def, 4 Sp.D
Gastro Acid
Stealth Rock
Helping Hand
Safeguard/Protect

Gastro Acid just rids you of Regigigas' ability for 5 turns, effectively cancelling out it's negatives. You can also run this moveset if you like, better for team disruption:

Gastro Acid
Stealth Rock
Knock Off
Acupressure

Takes off items and powers up the team mate while it walls. Works so well with T-Tar it's not funny.

Yea pretty much...Except rock smash is both common and effective on Absol.

... seriously? No and no. Almost every other fighting move is better than Rock Smash.

firelovindocker
9th December 2008, 9:31 AM
howebout just a charizard and swellow
charizard belly drum swellow arieal ace
then both use fly
and both hit the same pokemon
suprisingly it work well

zm_
9th December 2008, 11:01 AM
You forget the bit where in between a belly drum and arieal ace the opponents pokemon get to attack which may mean you lose a Charizard. Also what is stopping them from swapping to a poke that is resistant to fly. Think Rhyperior which laughs at Charizard and Swellow.

Rhys29
9th December 2008, 11:38 AM
howebout just a charizard and swellow
charizard belly drum swellow arieal ace
then both use fly
and both hit the same pokemon
suprisingly it work well
Both completely defeated by anything with the word 'Rock' in it's name. What's that? Rock Slide hits BOTH enemies? lol I don't really see how this would work well as team work anyways... If you both hit the same guy, the other guy can just kill either of these frail guys. Oh, and Discharge and Surf say hi.

You forget the bit where in between a belly drum and arieal ace the opponents pokemon get to attack which may mean you lose a Charizard. Also what is stopping them from swapping to a poke that is resistant to fly. Think Rhyperior which laughs at Charizard and Swellow.

Exactly. TR defeats this right away and Rhyperior being a common placement in those can just start wailing on you.

ShuckleRules96
9th December 2008, 4:32 PM
lol, Bronzong, (common lead), Gengar, and Skarm laughs at this. Plus keep in mind running a start up with two of the same type is not smart.

Give Slowking Trick Room and go to town. If you're not running Trick Room, go with a defensive, team boost Shuckle:

Shuckle@Leftovers
Sassy, Sturdy
252 Hp, 252 Def, 4 Sp.D
Gastro Acid
Stealth Rock
Helping Hand
Safeguard/Protect

Gastro Acid just rids you of Regigigas' ability for 5 turns, effectively cancelling out it's negatives. You can also run this moveset if you like, better for team disruption:

Gastro Acid
Stealth Rock
Knock Off
Acupressure

Takes off items and powers up the team mate while it walls. Works so well with T-Tar it's not funny.


... seriously? No and no. Almost every other fighting move is better than Rock Smash.
Yes and Yes. rock smash is the only fighting move absol gets and it helps him alot.

superluis5
9th December 2008, 6:07 PM
Mine is the folowing

For instance, say that we start the match with Ambipom and Magnezone and our opponent leads with Heracross and Gyarados. Bad news for us. The first thing that will happen is that the Gyarados's Intimidate will hit Ambipom, then hit Magnezone. This tells our opponent right up front that our Ambipom is faster than our Magnezone. No big surprise there. Now let's say that on the first turn, we predict a Close Combat from Heracross aimed at our Ambipom and an Earthquake from the Gyarados. To buy ourselves some time, we choose to Fake Out the Heracross with Ambipom and replace our Magnezone with our Tangrowth, figuring we can finish off the Heracross with Ambipom on the second turn and have Tangrowth Sleep Powder the Gyarados before it can Dragon Dance more than once.

Rhys29
13th December 2008, 11:52 AM
Yes and Yes. rock smash is the only fighting move absol gets and it helps him alot.
I really hope you're not serious. That's maybe one of the worst moves he can have on a set >.> He has Superpower, which outclasses the puny Rock Smash completely, and with its BP of 40, it's not doing anything anyways. With Psycho cut and Night Slash, he gets just about the best coverage in the game, and the other two slots should be Superpower and Stone Edge really. Learn your moves dude. Rock Smash is possibly and arguably the worst Fighting move in the game, and just cause it's the only one Absol can learn, it doesn't justify teaching it to him for competetive battles. Besides, the move is to wear out the opponent's defenses, do you really think the extremely frail Absol can last that long?

Mine is the folowing

For instance, say that we start the match with Ambipom and Magnezone and our opponent leads with Heracross and Gyarados. Bad news for us. The first thing that will happen is that the Gyarados's Intimidate will hit Ambipom, then hit Magnezone. This tells our opponent right up front that our Ambipom is faster than our Magnezone. No big surprise there. Now let's say that on the first turn, we predict a Close Combat from Heracross aimed at our Ambipom and an Earthquake from the Gyarados. To buy ourselves some time, we choose to Fake Out the Heracross with Ambipom and replace our Magnezone with our Tangrowth, figuring we can finish off the Heracross with Ambipom on the second turn and have Tangrowth Sleep Powder the Gyarados before it can Dragon Dance more than once.

Heracross Megahorn's your Tangrowth while Gyra uses Ice Fang, thus probably killing the opponent. BTW: Think about this combo. Why would Gyra use EQ with a poke that is hit by it as his partner? Your technique is to just hit the main threat, switch out to better suit, and continue. So basically what you're supposed to do. Plus your Ambipom would be OHKO'd by the EQ lol, making that whole little paragraph a way for your first poke to die.

zm_
13th December 2008, 1:30 PM
As an Absol user I have to step in here and say something. Absol is doubles is not worth it, too fragile unless you invest EV's into its defences (probably HP). Secondly I find Fire Blast more effective on Absol than Rock Smash as I find that what I would hit with Fire Blast I would also hit with Rock Smash, and I like the chance of burning a steel such as Aggron or Steelix which makes their attack fairly weak. You can also go with Flamethrower if you prefer Accuracy > Power.

In short: Fire Blast/Flamethrower > Rock Smash

Anyways onto my problem I have put some decent thought into a trick room team and I have been wonder if it is viable to have a fast fairly sturdy sweeper to be around in case Trick Room goes down and is unable to be put back up. Also what base speeds should be looked at for a Trick Room. My first draft has my highest base speed (bar the fast sweeper) at 65 also it is cursing. Is this too fast or can I knock it up a little bit more?

Rhys29
13th December 2008, 9:53 PM
As an Absol user I have to step in here and say something. Absol is doubles is not worth it, too fragile unless you invest EV's into its defences (probably HP). Secondly I find Fire Blast more effective on Absol than Rock Smash as I find that what I would hit with Fire Blast I would also hit with Rock Smash, and I like the chance of burning a steel such as Aggron or Steelix which makes their attack fairly weak. You can also go with Flamethrower if you prefer Accuracy > Power.

In short: Fire Blast/Flamethrower > Rock Smash

Anyways onto my problem I have put some decent thought into a trick room team and I have been wonder if it is viable to have a fast fairly sturdy sweeper to be around in case Trick Room goes down and is unable to be put back up. Also what base speeds should be looked at for a Trick Room. My first draft has my highest base speed (bar the fast sweeper) at 65 also it is cursing. Is this too fast or can I knock it up a little bit more?

This technique is pretty simple. In order to do this you need Iron Ball and Fling on your poke. Iron Ball slows you down so you get to go relitively first when Trick Room is up. Timing on this is presice. The LAST TURN TRICK ROOM IS UP, use Fling, not the turn TR goes down. You will use Fling with 130 power and your speed will normalize. You do this at this point because then you will still get the speed boost from TR/Iron Ball and then next turn when TR is off, your speed is normal. This actually works great for Baton Passing or several other moves you need the boosted speed on, such as getting a Screen up in time or delivering a crucial strike before the opponent's poke can get to you.

So yes, it is almost essential that you carry a speedy poke around to deal with others if TR goes out. You can make the poke as fast as you need, however Cursing while in a TR should be left to pokes with high Sp.D and moves that could use the power. Otherwise you are almost asking your opponent to burn/poison you. Para won't be a problem in TR teams, seeing as it essentially can give the recipiant an advantage.

zm_
14th December 2008, 5:58 AM
Im not really fussed about being burnt/poisoned from my Curser as its Umbreon so it can bounce the poison/burn back to the opponent. As well as Baton Passing the boosts across or using them to its own advantage if Trick Room goes down.

I like the Iron Ball/Fling I just need to find the right poke to pull it off successfully.

Rhys29
14th December 2008, 6:11 AM
Im not really fussed about being burnt/poisoned from my Curser as its Umbreon so it can bounce the poison/burn back to the opponent. As well as Baton Passing the boosts across or using them to its own advantage if Trick Room goes down.

I like the Iron Ball/Fling I just need to find the right poke to pull it off successfully.

Weavile can do it pretty well if you go for a bulky set with a speed resistant nature, and Umbreon does it pretty well too. The best is either Honchcrow or Crawdaunt, since they get a STAB and have very nice power to back it.

If you decide to go with an Umbreon in DB's, you get an interesting option. If you team it up with Tangrowth or another Grass user (careful about this, watch for Bug move users, Breloom solves this), you can Mean Look a foe and Sleep Powder/Spore it turn one. You now have a poke that is asleep and can't be switched. Then you can use Leech Seed with the same Grass poke as you start Cursing up your Umbreon. You now have a Tanker holding a sleeping poke that is constantly give your team-mate hp. Works well against teams that rely on one poke to be complete (EX: Lanturn for Surf/Rain Dance). You should then switch in Shuckle if you are running a shut down/TR team and let it run rampant. Since it has low HP, it wouldn't last for too long, but since it could be receiving from say a Bliss, it could stay alive much longer and allow you to set up a lot of combos (then you would Curse out for your high Sp.D tanker and go to town)

Rainbowdashtheawesome
15th December 2008, 1:49 AM
This is an idea I thought of that would be perfect in a double battle if it ould work but I haven't tested.
You pair up shedinja with spiritomb and have spiritomb use skill swap on shedinja. Now you have a spiritomb with wonderguard. Also, I have taken it into consideration that shedinja would now be left at 1 HP with no wonderguard, but I figured out that that weakness can be remedied with a focus sash. Because shedinja would be at full health at every point in the battle before it is dead the focus sash will continue protecting it.

Boomguy
15th December 2008, 2:14 AM
This is an idea I thought of that would be perfect in a double battle if it ould work but I haven't tested.
You pair up shedinja with spiritomb and have spiritomb use skill swap on shedinja. Now you have a spiritomb with wonderguard. Also, I have taken it into consideration that shedinja would now be left at 1 HP with no wonderguard, but I figured out that that weakness can be remedied with a focus sash. Because shedinja would be at full health at every point in the battle before it is dead the focus sash will continue protecting it.

Clearly u don't know that Shednija ability cannot be Skill Swapped. No one really attacks Shednija with an Attack people would rather, Spikes, Stealth Rock, Sand Storm, Hail, Poison or Burn to kill a Shedinja

ZM and Rhys did u guys look at the vid i sent you? plz don't mention it here

[Ampharos]
15th December 2008, 2:36 AM
Team Castform.
One much faster so it can set up hail.
Second one less fast so it can immediately blizzard the opponents.

Ampharos/Jolteon
Ampharos sets up with Charge while Jolteon does whatever.
Then Discharge. Heals whatever damage was done to Jolteon.
Maybe get Volt tackle onto Jolteon.

zm_
15th December 2008, 3:40 AM
That strategy gets smashed by anything that has a ground typing in it as well as lightning rod ability. Rhyperior, Marowak, Golem, Steelix, Claydol and so on. They can in turn just hit back with Earthquake or Earth Power.

I have the url saved on my mails so I plan to look at it tonight when I am not as busy.

manish
15th December 2008, 4:45 AM
u should have a darkrai cause of its signiture move dark void

zm_
15th December 2008, 5:13 AM
Generally doubles battles are of standard rules so that means that Ubers are still banned. Also doesnt sleep clause affect the use of Dark Void.

manish
15th December 2008, 5:37 AM
i dont no
i dont have wifi due to change of DS
my email is pokemonmastermanish@hotmail.com

Rhys29
15th December 2008, 8:03 AM
Clearly u don't know that Shednija ability cannot be Skill Swapped. No one really attacks Shednija with an Attack people would rather, Spikes, Stealth Rock, Sand Storm, Hail, Poison or Burn to kill a Shedinja

ZM and Rhys did u guys look at the vid i sent you? plz don't mention it here
Yes, I did. Responded already.

;9150486']Team Castform.
One much faster so it can set up hail.
Second one less fast so it can immediately blizzard the opponents.

Ampharos/Jolteon
Ampharos sets up with Charge while Jolteon does whatever.
Then Discharge. Heals whatever damage was done to Jolteon.
Maybe get Volt tackle onto Jolteon.
Your first technique is ruined by DTFO (Double Team Fake Out, both leads use Fake Out on both lead pokes to get rid of any Focus Sashes and stop the first move). Plus two of the same pokes can't be on your team at the same time.

Your second strat is just dumb, as pointed out earlier. EQ is rediculously common, so using TWO pokes weak to it is not in your best interest.

u should have a darkrai cause of its signiture move dark void
Darkrai=Uber, Dark Void=Banned in every Doubles League.

Generally doubles battles are of standard rules so that means that Ubers are still banned. Also doesnt sleep clause affect the use of Dark Void.
Yes, Dark Void goes against the Sleep Clause as well, which is the other reason it is banned (the first is that it's wtfoverpowered).

Arande
15th December 2008, 8:54 AM
Not really restricted to just doubles. But one thing that tends to help me protect my dusknoir in my doubles TR team,if it needs to set up trick room again, is destiny bond. Not too many people realize it stays in effect till the users NEXT move, not just the turn it's used. If your opponent realizes this, it discourages em from KOing noir.

IE: trick room is in effect
Dusknoir uses DB
other pokes do their things
Trick room ends
If either kills noir before it can TR again, they faint cause DB is still in effect
If noir isn't KO'd, it's up to TR again.

Rhys29
15th December 2008, 9:09 AM
Not really restricted to just doubles. But one thing that tends to help me protect my dusknoir in my doubles TR team,if it needs to set up trick room again, is destiny bond. Not too many people realize it stays in effect till the users NEXT move, not just the turn it's used. If your opponent realizes this, it discourages em from KOing noir.

IE: trick room is in effect
Dusknoir uses DB
other pokes do their things
Trick room ends
If either kills noir before it can TR again, they faint cause DB is still in effect
If noir isn't KO'd, it's up to TR again.

This works on a non-cunning opponent. What will happen is the opponent will switch out the poke that you're Destiny Bonding and KO your Noir with the other one. Plust Taunting a Dusknoir in a Double Battle is a duh.

zm_
15th December 2008, 9:16 AM
That is a fair point but I have to admit that taunt (from what I have seen) is rarely used in doubles battles. I have only seen it used three times in doubles, twice by me to stop a sunny day set up and the other stop a skill swap. The one time it was used on me was to stop a hypnosis.

Apart from Taunt the only downfall of that strategy has been mentioned. Otherwise its pretty solid but some people are fine sacrificing one of thier pokes to get rid of something that is causing them problems. Just look at anything going "Boom" in a match.

Boomguy
15th December 2008, 9:23 AM
That is a fair point but I have to admit that taunt (from what I have seen) is rarely used in doubles battles. I have only seen it used three times in doubles, twice by me to stop a sunny day set up and the other stop a skill swap. The one time it was used on me was to stop a hypnosis.

Apart from Taunt the only downfall of that strategy has been mentioned. Otherwise its pretty solid but some people are fine sacrificing one of thier pokes to get rid of something that is causing them problems. Just look at anything going "Boom" in a match.

I'll second that to, Taunt is Underused used in double battles, now that gives me a great idea because alot of people do set up moves

zm_
15th December 2008, 9:30 AM
Its a great move if you know something will obviously happen. Generally Cherim's are pretty obvious, Shuckles always are up for that treatment. Picking up who will set up Rain Dance is harder but then again I have seen it only used twice against me so it varies although both times I was lucky to get out with a victory in that match.

Arande
15th December 2008, 9:34 AM
This works on a non-cunning opponent. What will happen is the opponent will switch out the poke that you're Destiny Bonding and KO your Noir with the other one. Plust Taunting a Dusknoir in a Double Battle is a duh.

Well, the thing about destiny bond is that it's an effect the poke places on itself. You don't target your opponents poke with it, the user targets itself. And whichever poke deals the final blow to it is the one that faints.

Even if DB was a targeted move, there is no message stating which poke was targeted. All that appears is "<poke> is trying to take the foe with it!"

Also, the idea is to hopefully have their obvious taunter out if any. Or taunt taunt XD (I keep a toxicroak in my TR team, cause of it's somewhat slow-ish speed, and having both fake out and taunt.)

zm_
15th December 2008, 9:41 AM
Be wary of status in the case of destiny bond especially Toxic. Also its very hard to control who is on the field in doubles matches apart from who leads. So sometimes you may not be able to taunt a taunter. Also generally taunters are fast such as Crobat or Aerodactyl so you have to be faster than them to taunt them. In trick room this is easy but not in non trick room conditions.

Arande
15th December 2008, 9:44 AM
Again, said that's for REsetting up trick room, so they aren't necessarily going to have their taunters out already. Fake out deals with most common taunters, except crobat for the first TR.

Speaking about obvious things. Taunt can make it interesting when you end up with TR vs TR (seems every TR team I've ran into has a bronzong opener with TR, mine included) One reason I keep a poke or two that's slow enough to outspeed most in TR, yet fast enoguh that I can outspeed other TR teams.

Rhys29
15th December 2008, 9:48 AM
I'll second that to, Taunt is Underused used in double battles, now that gives me a great idea because alot of people do set up moves
Der. It's rediculous how many shut downs I've had with that move. No one sees it coming, since all you usually see is weather/set up and attack. Shutting down the set up = win. Plus it prevents Protect, so Boom teams are much more cautious about Booming.

Its a great move if you know something will obviously happen. Generally Cherim's are pretty obvious, Shuckles always are up for that treatment. Picking up who will set up Rain Dance is harder but then again I have seen it only used twice against me so it varies although both times I was lucky to get out with a victory in that match.
RD is always started by the fastest or the poke that WILL NOT benefit from it. Such as it would not be a wise move to put it on Kingdra for most people, since you can just set it up with another while keeping your speedy hitter full of attacking options. Shuckle is boned if they use it on him, btw, since he's all about being a team player.

Well, the thing about destiny bond is that it's an effect the poke places on itself. You don't target your opponents poke with it, the user targets itself. And whichever poke deals the final blow to it is the one that faints.

Also, the idea is to hopefully have their obvious taunter out if any. Or taunt taunt XD (I keep a toxicroak in my TR team, cause of it's somewhat slow-ish speed, and having both fake out and taunt.)
Have you tested this? Also, U-Turn will defeat DB as well. Plus the uncommon Whirlwind and Roar defeat you, since they still are one stage above Trick Room in priority. They can also status Dusk with a burn or sleep him so he can't do this. There are many ways to combat this tech...

zm_
15th December 2008, 9:52 AM
I think a fair point to note is that every single strategy is able to be countered and sometimes that strategy isn't as effective as it would be in another battle. For example my team has to be more wary of a sunny day team that it does a rain dance team as it is my current team is more equiped to handle rain dance theats such as Kingdra.

Rhys29
15th December 2008, 10:00 AM
I think a fair point to note is that every single strategy is able to be countered and sometimes that strategy isn't as effective as it would be in another battle. For example my team has to be more wary of a sunny day team that it does a rain dance team as it is my current team is more equiped to handle rain dance theats such as Kingdra.

Of course there are strategies that would take out your team, that's the point of competitive battling. For Sunny Day, I'm pretty sure I mention a really good counter can be Tangrowth, but if you want I can look up other pokes that would help take down a SD team. For that matter, if anyone needs any help at all with movesets or team help, I'm completely open to everyone.

Arande
15th December 2008, 10:03 AM
I never said it was a flawless strategy. The idea was just to use DB as a way to help discourage the opponent from just attacking it without losing a poke.

And follow me counters everything you just said as well :D (follow me is the most annoying move you will ever see in a doubles. It basically redirects any offensive single target move your opponent is using to the user. Yes, it redirects taunts, fake outs, status, WW, everything that targets a single poke)

And as for DB's targeting. Yes, I've tested it every time I've used DB in a double battle. Try it, you'll notice when the "choose target" menu comes up, you can only select the user.

Rhys29
15th December 2008, 10:15 AM
I never said it was a flawless strategy. The idea was just to use DB as a way to help discourage the opponent from just attacking it without losing a poke.

And follow me counters everything you just said as well :D (follow me is the most annoying move you will ever see in a doubles. It basically redirects any offensive single target move your opponent is using to the user. Yes, it redirects taunts, fake outs, status, WW, everything that targets a single poke)

And as for DB's targeting. Yes, I've tested it every time I've used DB in a double battle. Try it, you'll notice when the "choose target" menu comes up, you can only select the user.

like I wouldn't know what Follow Me does >.> However, the moves that hit two pokes at the same time are the most commonly used moves in DB's, just over moves that hit all three. Not doubting your technique, just letting you know to watch out for stuff. Plus Dusknoir is slow, so you need to use Destiny Bond on the last effective turn of TR for the full effect.

Arande
15th December 2008, 10:20 AM
I wasn't saying that like I thought you didn't know what "follow me" did. I was saying what it did for any other random person that was reading this who might not know.

Bleh, all this talk makes me wanna battle now, but it's almost 5:30 AM

Rhys29
15th December 2008, 11:17 AM
I wasn't saying that like I thought you didn't know what "follow me" did. I was saying what it did for any other random person that was reading this who might not know.

Bleh, all this talk makes me wanna battle now, but it's almost 5:30 AM

lol okay. Your team looks interesting (the doubles card), however I have already spotted some weaknesses that you may need to fix...

weavile33
15th December 2008, 7:06 PM
Usually all-out defense because the only time I ever do double battles is in-game where little strtegy is required anyway...

weavile33
15th December 2008, 7:06 PM
Correction: I mean all-out offense - silly me!

Arande
15th December 2008, 10:50 PM
lol okay. Your team looks interesting (the doubles card), however I have already spotted some weaknesses that you may need to fix...

Oh I can tell you all the flaws of that team. The problem I run into is I tend to train other teams, rather than improve the oens I've finished.

Off the top of my head are A) too physical, B) never did re-breed that machamp to also have either thunder punch, bullet punch (priority works wonders) or EQ. C) need more taunters than just the toxicroak.

Kinda makes me wanna say another strategy I use with that team is using pain split to actually heal the partner if it's hurt. Albeit it's rather risky. Basically noir pain splits, w the ofensive finishing off that poke. Then noir pain splits my offensive one to heal it, thus being hurt and ready to pain split again to steal a nice chunk of HP. Great when they throw things like bliss and vap in the way. (bronzong has both screens + light clay, and being able to use speed EV's for defensive ones instead can make the team rather bulky. Surprised how few use BB in doubles.)

Rhys29
16th December 2008, 5:36 AM
Alright, seems you have the whole 'no special attack' figured out already. A Torkoal with Curse could actually really benefit your team, giving you resistance to Fire, carries Heat Wave, can RS and SR, and it works very well as a physical wall/tank. Also one of the slowest pokes, so there's no need to worry about speed boundaries... which I am worried about with your Lucario. Unless he has a Iron Ball, he's gonna be easy meat for slow guys on the other team (though odds are you slapped BP on him for this reason). You also have a Fire weakness, since odds are your Toxicroak has Dry Skin, since that's one of the best abilities in DB's when played right. Rhyperior could kind of handle it, but it can't block your partner and Rhyperior has only so much Sp.D. An Amnesia SR/RS Torkoal could benefit your team if you pop it in for Lucario.

That Pain Split technique is probably going to backfire on you, so odds are you shouldn't use it. Seems smart, but using your walls turn to lower its health for a poke that is focused on simply hitting hard and fast with TR, it shouldn't be that wall's main objective.

Contrary to your belief, you should really on have one Taunter on your team, though they should be bulkier or slower (both is better). One Taunter can shut down their set up, and once they know it's there, they will simply have to avoid using it while that poke is there. This should give you plenty of time and team space to find it's weakness and exploit it.

No one uses Brick Break in DB's (except Weavile) becuase everyone is so worried about their own strategy, that they fail to really bring any counters with them.

Overall your team is very very Slowbro/king weak. The only thing that could kill it is a Mega Horn by Rhyperior, and they're both slower than it, making TR your worst enemy at that point. If you manage to get past that, you should be okay.

Arande
16th December 2008, 9:43 AM
Actually, what you mentioned about slowbro/king is why I have lucario. Like I said, it's slow enoguh (brave) that it can outrun things it needs to with TR up, but it is still fast enoguh to cause some problems to other TR teams. it's actually @ expert belt w protect, cross chop (I've been tempted to go CC for accuracy, but afraid the defense drop will cause issues) blaze kick and crunch. Works wonders vs slowbro, slowking, noir, bronzong (since most in doubles have levitate) and metagross. Albeit it usually still takes 2 hits for the last two.

What I mentioned with pain split was more of an interesting situation that has risen up quite a few times, rather than it's focus.

Most battles I've had with this team vs another TR team tend to end up with how well my opponents can fare without TR.

Psychic moves annoy this team most of anything. Since usually things with psychic have some attack to also hit rhyperior, or shadow ball for noir. i've used that to bait attacks as well thoguh. Machamp can use protect just as well as any other with no guard. Least I've yet to see anyone hit through machamps protect.

And to try to keep this on topic, rather than just about my team. Well, i pretty much just said one way my team can work to counter it's own strategy. Things like having same weather vs same weather, or TR vs TR will happen quite a bit.

Rhys29
16th December 2008, 11:25 AM
Protect is over-rated in DB's, however. Since Boom is a common move, some teams carry a poke with Feint, which would shut down a Protect user. You have no idea how many teams I've shut down with Feint >.> how many Smeargles and such bite it cause they're owners rely far too much on that almighty block.

itsme
16th December 2008, 11:33 AM
Tangrowth and Gengar combo. Tangrowth sleep powders enemy, Gengar Mean Looks them. Tangrowth Blocks enemy, Gengar Hypnotize. Then Leech Seed and Curse.

Rhys29
16th December 2008, 11:43 AM
Tangrowth and Gengar combo. Tangrowth sleep powders enemy, Gengar Mean Looks them. Tangrowth Blocks enemy, Gengar Hypnotize. Then Leech Seed and Curse.

lol Taunt, Whirlwind, Roar, and Sleep Clause say hi.

Kaisou
17th December 2008, 5:04 AM
Do help improve this, if you want.

I send Typhlosion out aswell as Arcanine.
-Typhlosion uses sunny day.
-Arcanine uses... protect/extreme speed. I 'want' him to flinch the threat, but I can't think of a move he can use.

(2nd Part)
-Typhlosion uses lavaplume, inflicting damage on the enemy and activating Arcanine's Flash Fire.
-Arcanine uses Flare Blitz, dealing large damage with his 2.5 damage boost.
(3rd Part)
-Typhlosion uses Eruption, dealing extra damage with STAB and Sunny day.
-Arcanine uses either Flame Wheel or Flare Blitz, it matters what his hp is after the recoil of the last move he used.
(4th Part)
-About the same stradegy from here out, if Arcanine faints then I can replace him with Rapidash or Nintails.
-If Typhlosion faints, Flygon replaces him and assumes the sunny day refreshing position. Flygon substitutes
and uses rest. However, I could send out milotic to counter those nasty ground/rock types and just rely
on the fact Typhlosion probably had sunny day refreshed before he fainted.

The point of this is to make good use out of Arcanine's high attack power. With low defence, Arcanine is prone to not having time to deal out enough damage. With this plan, Arcanine's already high attack is increased by a bold percentage, and he attempts to destroy the threat in one hit or two. Typhlosion has high special attack, which is
useful to counter Defensives;He can dish out high damage on both enemies at once, while buffing Arcanine.
I would prefer people not 100&#37; copy me, but if you do, give me credit please!

80p
17th December 2008, 5:31 AM
hmmm.. the only one i can rilly think of ground and flying and earthquake wont hurt the flying, but i guess i usually just pair up pachirisu with ambipom.. i rilly dont know why but both of them have seemed to work great together, they both have amazing speed so they go hand in hand

Rhys29
17th December 2008, 5:36 AM
Help me devolop this stradegy im working on for my fireteam, if you will :O

I send out a pokemon with lavaplume first, along with Venasaur(still debating over picking something else with more speed... maybe a treeko evo). Venasaur uses sunny day. My firetype(perhaps torcoal?) protects while venasaur solar beams till the foe kills him(they always do >.>;)I send out Ninetails, who has Flash Fire. Torcoal uses LavaPlume(I think it can learn that -shrugs-) and hurts the enemies while giving Ninetails a boost in her fire attacks.

That gives ninetales(or rapidash) stab, sunny day, and flash fire damage boosts for Ninetales. so what, thats... 2.5 damage increase? I'll have to see what poke'mon learn sunny day and lavaplume to perfect this, I beleive. It might be a lousy stradegy, but I want to try it first.

Edit: I feel the venasaur thing is a bit mediocre. I shouldn't rely on it dying... perhaps I should find something fire oriented that can protect and recharge sunny day when it runs out. Oh, I just found out my Arcanine can have the ability flash fire, which I like better... i'll have to rebreed em though.

Flash Fire is overated in DB's >.>, why does no one listen to Skill Swap and Gastro Acid shut downs I keep saying? However, there is a way to make that move rediculously useful. Have two pokes out weak to Fire, double switch in for moves such as Heat Wave/Lava Plume/Eruption that you know are coming. Double Flash Fire lol.

You strategy is okay, however your poke choice isn't quite as so. Be cautious when using Solar Beam!!! Someone can just Rain Dance the next turn, making you have to wait 2 turns to use it instead of 0-1. That is why you typically want to run Solar Beam on a poke with Chlorophyl, doubling its speed and giving it free rain over your opponents. Since you go faster than a vast majority of pokes, you won't have to worry about Rain Dance. However, a Sand Stream switch in is also to be feared when having this combo, but since most pokes that are benefitted from SS are weak to the two pokes who benefit from Sunny Day (Fire for Steel, Grass for Ground/Rock), you shouldn't have too much of a problem. If you plan on going with Flash Fire, you want it on a poke who can learn Heat Wave or Eruption, so your two best choices for that are Ninetails and Houndoom. Torkoal, btw, does learn Lava Plume, so you're set there. And for this reason, I suggest you give Torkoal Amnesia, Sunny Day, Lava Plume, and any of these moves (depending on what your party needs): Will O Whisp, Protect, Stealth Rock, or Rock Slide.

Keep in mind you team is very DS (Double Surf) and RD weak. That is why most peeps carry a Bellosom, Vileplume, Ludicolo, Tangrowth, or Leafeon. All are resistant to Surf and all can still benefit from Sunny Day. I can help more if you feel I haven't answered your question or need more help.

Kaisou
17th December 2008, 5:38 AM
I redid my theory with more research applied to it, but I did not see your post till just now. Thanks for the advice, of course! I still need to work on the team sellection some, but I really want to try this out now. Some of the poke' choices aren't lovely perhaps, but the whole perpose of looking into this was so I could use my favorite pokemon, Arcanine and Typhlosion, in a fire-themed team effectively. I have most of those Chloraphyll users you suggested, so I'll work around them some. Perhaps the Flygon I threw in could be swapped with a Tangrowth of sorts, I think that would utalize Sunny Day much more, no?

Rhys29
17th December 2008, 5:45 AM
lol people copy? If the opponent has anything with Flash Fire or resists Fire, that whole strategy is shut down. You'er focusing too much on Flash Fire, as I said before. NEVER EVER EVER underestimate your opponent and NEVER EVER EVER plan too far in advance. You are using what is called: 'Linear-strategy'. That means your whole battle plan goes in a single line and if it is somehow messed up before completed, you lose. Stay away from linear unless the strat is 1-2 turns to set up. Otherwise, the opponent can just shoot in when the obvious opportunity arises. Btw: your pokes that would be out are weak to Rock Slide, Earthquake, and Surf. Simply put, this strategy will not work on the opponent unless they have no strategy as well (or they have a huge Fire weakness).

Kaisou
17th December 2008, 6:05 AM
Well, i'll work on it myself. Thanks for the constructive critisism. I'll fool around with it and try to incorperate a grass type, or perhaps a dragon. The world wasn't built in a day, after all.

Rhys29
17th December 2008, 6:07 AM
Well, i'll work on it myself. Thanks for the constructive critisism. I'll fool around with it and try to incorperate a grass type, or perhaps a dragon. The world wasn't built in a day, after all.

Not saying it was, just telling you sticking with one type of move and being dependant on your weather/abilities won't help you in DB's. You have to have a back up to everything that could tear this team apart.

Noheart
17th December 2008, 12:05 PM
My favorite combo:

Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash | Jolly
252 Atk, 252 Spe, 6 HP
Thunder Fang
Ice Fang
Rock Slide
Taunt

Electivire @ Life Orb | Adamant
252 Atk, 252 Spe, 6 HP
Thunder Punch
Ice Punch
EQ
Cross Chop

Aerodactyl has the fastest electric attack in the game, ( Besides Ubers and Electrode ) so one quick T-Fang on to Electivire and start sweeping the hell out of threats that Aero can't take out.

I'm sure many have done it before, but I came up with this myself.

Rhys29
17th December 2008, 4:25 PM
My favorite combo:

Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash | Jolly
252 Atk, 252 Spe, 6 HP
Thunder Fang
Ice Fang
Rock Slide
Taunt

Electivire @ Life Orb | Adamant
252 Atk, 252 Spe, 6 HP
Thunder Punch
Ice Punch
EQ
Cross Chop

Aerodactyl has the fastest electric attack in the game, ( Besides Ubers and Electrode ) so one quick T-Fang on to Electivire and start sweeping the hell out of threats that Aero can't take out.

I'm sure many have done it before, but I came up with this myself.

No, not many have done this before. Jolteon has the exact same speed and has Discharge, so you are very wrong when it comes to the fasted electric attack. However, if you are looking for two pretty frail pokes to attempt to sweep, this can work to some extent. Not the best but not the worst. You do lose to a Discharge/EQ combo on the first turn though. Also you might want Aerodactyl to have Whirlwind.

Rhys29
17th December 2008, 4:54 PM
Tangrowth should have Light Screen, seeing as how it and the rest of your team lack any sort of defense... okay I started to look it over and then realized what this team was. Bad. You have no defense, your Typhlosion has almost nothing it can use Lava Plume with, none of your other pokes can benefit from Sunny Day, and you seem to lack the general idea of a DB team. When I said "don't rely on your weather effect" it didn't mean scrap the strategy, it meant don't always expect it to be up and you should have moves that deal with it accordingly.

Kaisou
17th December 2008, 5:07 PM
Aye, this team is directed toward single battles, I didn't realize that. I'll work a bit more on my first stradegy and see what I make of it. I worked on it last night some, but I didn't post it; I might later. I can tell I am having a problem getting excited making the team and trying to counter the main weakness of my main stradegy, and then I create a whole set of new weaknesses to my team.

Rhys29
17th December 2008, 5:10 PM
Yeah, that's why counter teams just seem to work for me, seeing as I know most strategies in DB's and know how to beat them...

Kaisou
17th December 2008, 6:01 PM
While researching a bit more on moves and how to plan my team properly, I saw something small of interest;nothing big, but I felt like I would ask anyway.

I noticed Abomosnow's ability summons a hailstorm, right?
Well Glaceon gains evasioness when hailstorms are summmoned.
I thought if this was used, maybe Glaceon would use double team
once or twice... I didn't realize Glaceon had the stats it did.
Nothing huge stat-wise, but its Sp.Atk rivals Darkrai's, which
is worth noticing.

Honestly, I don't like the Abomosnow much. It leaves too much weakness to fire, deals weak damage,
and it seems to not have defence to back it up with. It has bad stats, really. The only thing
that really means anything in this idea is that Glaceon deals large multi hit ice damage(w/Blizzzard), which counters just about everything that you see use earthquake. (Dragon, rock, ground, etc)

Suicune cought my eye, as it knows sunny day and blizzard. It doesn't bennifit from Typhlosion's Lava Plume like Arcanine/Houndoom, but it doesn't severly suffer from it like Tangrowth does. It can also use tailwind, and the
extra speed buff for the team sounds useful, though I'm not sure. I like the idea of Suicune, as it makes up
for Typhlosion's two overpopular weaknesses, Surf and Earthquake. With tailwind... maybe I have more of a
chance of attacking first. Typhlosion already has -ok- speed, and with sunnyday and solarbeam, I could
possibly wipe out the water type with surf before it got to me.

Blue_Ditto_256
17th December 2008, 7:36 PM
Double Team is banned in standard play.

maxx unlimited
17th December 2008, 10:01 PM
Using attack moves that hit both pokemon, like surf.

M4zz
18th December 2008, 2:15 AM
Hit em hard, and dont stop

Rhys29
18th December 2008, 2:30 AM
While researching a bit more on moves and how to plan my team properly, I saw something small of interest;nothing big, but I felt like I would ask anyway.

I noticed Abomosnow's ability summons a hailstorm, right?
Well Glaceon gains evasioness when hailstorms are summmoned.
I thought if this was used, maybe Glaceon would use double team
once or twice... I didn't realize Glaceon had the stats it did.
Nothing huge stat-wise, but its Sp.Atk rivals Darkrai's, which
is worth noticing.

Honestly, I don't like the Abomosnow much. It leaves too much weakness to fire, deals weak damage,
and it seems to not have defence to back it up with. It has bad stats, really. The only thing
that really means anything in this idea is that Glaceon deals large multi hit ice damage(w/Blizzzard), which counters just about everything that you see use earthquake. (Dragon, rock, ground, etc)

Suicune cought my eye, as it knows sunny day and blizzard. It doesn't bennifit from Typhlosion's Lava Plume like Arcanine/Houndoom, but it doesn't severly suffer from it like Tangrowth does. It can also use tailwind, and the
extra speed buff for the team sounds useful, though I'm not sure. I like the idea of Suicune, as it makes up
for Typhlosion's two overpopular weaknesses, Surf and Earthquake. With tailwind... maybe I have more of a
chance of attacking first. Typhlosion already has -ok- speed, and with sunnyday and solarbeam, I could
possibly wipe out the water type with surf before it got to me.

This combo is actually the most common lead with DB Hail teams (from what I've seen). It's a Brightpowder Glaceon (anyone who knows competitive play says ****k Garchomp to this combo) and a Seed Abomasnow. Glaceon starts with a good evasion boost and Blizzard hits with 100% acc in the snow with 25% pierce, with STAB and a capped 397 Sp.A with the already high base power of 120, can you say rape? Plus it has great defensive stats, so it can take a hit (in the BT, my Glaceon could take a Stone Edge from the Tower Master's Dragonite, so it's got solid def). It could also Barrier up on the first turn and then pass it to something that needs it if you want to play that (not as good but can help if you need it for a set up).

Suicune is great in a RD team. It provides both Tailwind and Reflect support while still being able to CM up and Surf away. However, with Lava Plumes decent burn rate (30%), you have the chance of suffering if it's not a RstTlker. The only thing that really 100% supports better is a Xatu with Tailwind, Reflect, Light Screen, and Wish (I know, wtf). I'm glad you mentioned Suicune.

Btw: when you are selecting your pokes make sure you run the common double hits. Check if they are weak to or resist: Discharge, Surf, Rock Slide, Earthquake, and Heat Wave. That will help with your overall party defense.

Blue Raja
18th December 2008, 3:17 AM
When you design your team keep three things in mind.

1. Priority moves.

2. Flinch moves

3. Weather Control.

Good double battle teams will make use of priority moves. Trick Room or Anti-Trick Room stratagies need to be built into every team. Priority moves are the best defense against speed freaks, and trick room abusers. (That is why weavile / abamasnow is far more common than glaceon / abamasnow.)

Nearly all lead combos will have a Fake Out capability. It can save you from a catastrophic super effective, or even double super effective attack. At the same time allowing a second poke to pump, set up, or inflict a status.

If your foe creates weather to his/her choice you are in big trouble. You must have a counter for this. Either a change to a beneficial weather type, or one of the few pokes who neutralize the effects.

Also-
lets not start forcing the so called "competitive" battle rules down the throats of those of us who prefer double battle. I for one don't think that DB needs to be "sanitized" and "homogenized" the way single battle has been bludgeoned into forced regimentation.

Rhys29
18th December 2008, 4:03 AM
I, for one, believe rules do need to be introduced. Dark Void (er whatev, I hate that move) is so rediculous for DB's it needs to be banned. Some rules kind of bug me but it really evens the field in my mind.

For all the counters, I will be compiling a master list of good ideas for counters/users. Please do contact me if you have good ideas. And as for Blue Raja: You know what you are talking about, pm me if you want to go over this with me.

Steven ain't my even
18th December 2008, 5:28 AM
Here is some genius I that I came up with while free thinking. I don't know if anyone has already dicussed this, so I won't take credit as the "First" to think of this:

First out: Alakazam...............Shuckle
Moves (at least):.....Moves:
Guard swap.............Endure
Power swap............Protect
:...:.......................:...:
:...:.......................:...:
EVs:......................EVs:
252 HP...................252 Def
252 Spd.................252 Sp. Def
4 Sp. Att................4 HP
Nature:..................Nature:
Dwn Att/Up Sp. Att..Dwn Att/Up Def

Reserves (in order of appearence):
Blissey
Moves:
Thunder bolt
seismic toss
Toxic
Soft Boiled (max PP for max effectiveness)
Ability:
Serene Grace/Natural Cure
EVs:
252 Spd
252 HP
4 Sp. Att
Nature:
Dwn Att./Up Spd

Garchomp
Moves:
Outrage
Fire Fang
Crunch
Earthquake
Nature:
Jolly
EVs:
252 Att
252 Spd
4 HP

This is all about making an near-indestructdo-Blissey with sweeper support from garchomp or, since he's an uber I just realized, any other dependable sweeper to back up Blissey. First, use Guard swap with Alakazam on Shuckle to get the needed defense stats then switch out shuckle with Bilssey and use Guard swap on the blissey that just switched with shuckle or first use a power swap then a guard swap. Then switch in your sweeper support and blam you have an incredible match.

Rhys29
18th December 2008, 5:39 AM
Guard Swap switches changes in the stat boosts, not the stat itself

sal-sudairy
18th December 2008, 6:06 AM
A Pok&#233;mon that knows earthquake and a flying Pok&#233;mon or has the Levitate ability.

Kaisou
18th December 2008, 6:08 AM
Rhys, what do you think of a Gangar/Metagross combo?
Metagross earthquakes away till it is content, and then
when its on boarderline of dying, it explodes? I think
Im going to impliment the three main stradegies I have
been working on and make them a team. Honestly, with
a team like that I shouldn't have to worry about having
many weaknesses.

My main problem is having them all set up so if one
isn't with the other pokemon, I can still fight with
a fair advantage.(Suicune can opperate well on its own,
I'm thinking about paring it with a rainy day using Kingdra,
which takes o.25 damage from water types, as in Suicunes
surf) Gengar is set up to adapt to rainy day so it can use
thunder freely, which also clears out water types incase
I had to summon Typhlosion for some reason. Of course,
rainy day interferes with Typhlosion and its possible solarbeam
and attack increase.

I have plenty of ideas and stradegies, but I'm going to have to
put them together so if one pokemon dies, or if they arent in the
right order, I can still opperate properly. Im deffinently using
Glaceon and Abomosnow, I liked the idea anyway, and with
good feedback it sounds worth trying.

Rhys29
18th December 2008, 6:10 AM
That is the problem with DB's: there are too many options. I am making the master sheet as we speak, so you'll be able to nab something from there to combo with your pokes.

Boomguy
18th December 2008, 9:10 AM
i'm trying to look into useing the move fient because there is alot of protect abusers out there i wanna see if i can perfect using it

Rhys29
18th December 2008, 10:00 AM
i'm trying to look into useing the move fient because there is alot of protect abusers out there i wanna see if i can perfect using it

Good, someone may be paying attention to moves that never really had a use till DB's came into effect. Why is Feint so effective? Because everything that needs to Protect from an Explosion is hit by it. I have literally won battles because the other player didn't expect me to Feint their poke and it got taken out with the Boomer, making his move almost hurt him more than me. This also works at shutting down any move that would normally hit all 3 other pokes. If you see the EQ coming when they go something weak to it out that plans on using Protect/Detect, playing Feint can give you the game. I will be discussing Feint users in my guide, which is actually pretty far along.

Boomguy
18th December 2008, 10:55 AM
espcially in plat now there gonna be more pokemon able to use that move. oo the Technian Persian sounds really good to use the move fient

Rhys29
18th December 2008, 11:07 AM
espcially in plat now there gonna be more pokemon able to use that move. oo the Technian Persian sounds really good to use the move fient

Yep, that's one of the more common, extremely rare Feint users.

Rhys29
18th December 2008, 12:24 PM
Sorry for the DP and the big post, but here is my quick reference for counters and such... This will also be on the first post if you ever need to refer back to it.

~RHYS29’S DOUBLE BATTLE COUNTER/TEAM GUIDE
As most/all of you know, I love DB’s and constantly talk about them. I give almost everybody constant advice who post on my thread and try and be as helpful as possible. Many of you have seen how your teams work and I have showed you their weaknesses and how they can be shut down. I am now going to list all the good counters I could find and superior users of the Weather Effects. This post will continually grow, so check back often.


~~~TRICK ROOM COUNTERS
-Most likely the most common DB strategy. This move may have a -7 speed priority, however it makes the slower pokes go first for 5 straight turns. Seeing how many tanking and powerful pokes are held back by their terrible speed, this move allows them to unlock their full potential. The most common pokes that are known to unleash this move are Dusknoir and Bronzong since they both have solid defenses, plenty of resistances and are slow enough to use the effects of the move effectively.

Steelix@Leftovers/Life Orb
Careful, Rock Head
252 HP, 204 Sp.D, 52 Att
Gyro Ball/Aqua Tail/Thunder Fang
Curse
Fire Fang/Crunch
Earthquake

The most common pokes who use TR are Dusknoir and Bronzong. With this set, you will beat a –nature speed Zong and still be close enough to outrun both pokes after one Curse. Gyro Ball is the best obvious move for him when dealing with fast pokes, however not as useful when facing a TR team. Both Aqua Tail and Thunder Fang counter Fire and Water types, the two types that are common in DB’s and its other weaknesses. Curse is to benefit from the TR or just power him up in general. Fire Fang is meant for Zong, dealing a good chunk of damage on the first turn and possibly flinching while Crunch is for Noir and lowering its high defense. Earthquake is for STAB and because it’s EQ. Solid counter to both, seeing as both Zong and Noir rely mostly on their attack. Boost Sp.D for survival issues. Works best with a Light Screener by its side.


Camerupt@Leftovers/Life Orb
Brave, Rock Solid
252 Sp.A, 180 Att, 76 Hp
Eruption/Heat Wave
Earthquake/Earth Power
Rock Slide
Explosion/Will-o-wisp/Stealth Rock

Camerupt is slow enough to use TR effectively and fast enough to outrun Bronzong on turn 1. A full power Eruption with LO from Camerupt does 320 cap damage to a full Sp.D Bronzong (if they capped HP as well, it will deal 94&#37;) WITHOUT Life Orb. OHKO’s with LO obviously. However, seeing as he is very slow, another poke could hit him hard and take away the power of Eruption, so unless you have a Follow Me poke or are confident you outrun both pokes/won’t get hit, this is the one of the best ways to deal with Zong. Also hits the enemy, so bonus. Heat Wave deals a respectable 213 capped damage (63%) without LO and 276 (81%) with it. Both are good options, but one is more about getting the shot in with no damage versus set BP. Depending on the rest of your party, you can choose between either move, seeing as Earth Power can help you deal with a partner that can’t avoid EQ and provides more special support while EQ is EQ. Rock Slide is a great move and if they manage to get TR up, you may get a double flinch. The last is dependent on if you think it should provide support or go Boom when it’s provided the help it needed to.


Typhlosion@Choice Scarf
Modest, Blaze
252 Sp.A, 252 Spe, 6 Hp
Eruption
Overheat/Focus Blast
Solarbeam
HP-Ice/Rock

The best way to stop Zong. OHKO’s with Eruption on the first turn, easily outrunning both opponents and deals extremely heavy damage to the opposing poke. If you want to make sure he gets that first shot off, go with a Fake Out user as its partner. It also deal a large amount of damage to a fully Sp.D Dusknoir (a 2HKO). Overheat if you want to switch him in and out with low health to still deal heavy damage or Focus Blast for Fighting coverage against T-Tar. If you can get Sunny Day up, send him in and Solar Beam away with intense speed (you will outrun most Chlorophyl users, since most set their speed to about 400 under the sun). HP-Ice/Rock for other coverage.


Granbull@Choice Band/Expert Belt
Adamant, Quick Feet
252 Att, 252 Hp, 6 Spe
Crunch
Fire Fang
Return/Close Combat
Bulk Up/Roar/Heal Bell/Thunder Wave

One of the best ways to deal with both pokes. Crunch deals good damage to both pokes, most notably Dusknoir. Fire Fang deals solid damage to Zong and helps with his Steel-wallability. Return for a good STAB or Close Combat for a powerful Fighting move. For the last set it’s really what you want him to do for the rest of the game: start Bulking Up and tank away, Roar for a useful forced switch, Heal Bell for an amazing status absorber, or T-Wave to provide support. ANOTHER SIMILAR OPTION TO THIS IS URSARING.


Weavile@Focus Sash/Expert Belt
Adamant, Pressure
252 Att, 252 Hp, 6 Spe
Taunt
Fake Out
Night Slash
Brick Break/Ice Punch/Ice Shard

First, I know what you’re thinking about a bulky Weavile. If you make it too fast, it will be much more open to TR and so it doesn’t really need the speed for that. Taunt just straight up prevents TR from working, plain as that. Fake Out will also stop Zong and others from getting their first move in. Night Slash is to deal heavy damage to both pokes, more to Noir. The last slot is for what you need: T-Tar insurance, solid STAB, or another priority.


Spiritomb@Leftovers/Lum Berry
Modest, Pressure
212 Hp, 128 Def, 128 Sp.D, 44 Spe
Taunt
Pain Split
Dark Pulse
Will-o-wisp/Hypnosis

This guy will outrun a –speed natured Noir, giving it just enough speed. Taunt can get both Dusk and Zong first, stopping TR. Pain Split to help its frail HP stat hold up. Dark Pulse for an effective STAB and scores pretty decent damage against the two threats. Will-o-wisp is for burning and Hypnosis for the sleep.

***NOTES: Other pokes are notorious for pulling out TR such as the Bro’s and Porygon2. This can be solved with minor tweaking to the sets, such as going with the Fighting options on Typhlosion and Granbull to deal with Pory2 and the Dark type users/Taunters for the Bros work just fine.


~~~RAIN DANCE COUNTERS
-Almost always played with a Double Surf combo (two pokes with Water Absorb use Surf continually in Rain, dealing lots of damage and continually healing), this combo is deadly when combined with specific Water types. Rain boosts the power of Water moves by 1.5, Fire attacks are reduced by 50%, Thunder gains 100% accuracy and 25% pierce (cuts through Protect and Detect), knocks down Solar Beam to 2 rounds to charge up, and reduces the power of Moonlight, Synthesis, and Morning sun to 25%. It also activates several abilities such as Swift Swim which doubles the pokes speed while its raining. Overall possibly the most deadly and to Sunny Day teams and Fire users.

Golduck@Leftovers/Light Clay
Modest, Cloud Nine
252 Hp, 180 Def, 76 Sp.D
Calm Mind/Amnesia
Ice Beam/Reflect/Light Screen
Psychic/Seismic Toss
Hypnosis/Reflect/Light Screen/Toxic

Perfect to cancel out all weather effect teams. His ability simply stops weather effects from working all together and the only other poke who is capable of doing this is Rayquaza. For the moveset, you are probably going to want him to work for teamwork than offense. Calm Mind is good for tanking capabilities while Amnesia just gets that Sp.D up so it can survive longer. Any combination for the next several moves works. Ice Beam for a great attack and coverage, Psychic for STAB boost, Seismic Toss for continuous 100 damage strikes, Toxic to get some poison on the foe, Hypnosis for sleeping a poke, and Reflect and Light Screen for party boosting capacity. A very team-friendly poke with an excellent move pool.


Starmie@Leftovers
Modest, Natural Cure/Illuminate
252 Hp, 252 Sp.A, 6 Spe
Skill Swap
Light Screen/Reflect/Cosmic Power
Thunder Wave/Recover
Thunder/Thunderbolt

This bulky Starmie could help you deal with those dang Swift Swimmers. Skill Swap gives Starmie the Swift Swim ability, making its already good speed ridiculous in the rain, and since you can do this turn one the ability will only activate for you since it doesn’t activate the turn Rain Dance starts. Light Screen or Reflect for extra defense for the team and Cosmic Power if you need to keep this baby out, since it will do very well as a tank, seeing as how it has good Sp.A, this moves boosts both defenses, and it could have Swift Swim double its speed. T-Wave or Recover for survivability. Thunder if you plan on the foe keeping the rain going (or if you want to keep the rain going) or Thunderbolt if you or your opponent puts a stop to the rain.


Qwilfish@Focus Sash/Life Orb
Adamant, Swift Swim
252 Spe, 252 Att, 6 Hp
Sword Dance
Aqua Tail/Poison Jab
Taunt/Aqua Tail/Poison Jab
Explosion/Destiny Bond

Rare to see this little guy used as a counter, but none the less he works like a charm. With resistance to water, he may be able to survive a turn making Life Orb the way to go; but if you are looking for more assurance, go with Focus Sash so he can take the first hit. The Swift Swim allows him to force the opponent to make a tough choice, seeing as they will also give him the boost. Sword Dance will give Qwilfish over 600 attack power on the first turn, making him a force to be reckoned with. Aqua Tail is a powerful STAB, but usually less usable against a RD team than Poison Jab. Taunt gives the gained speed/high speed of Qwilfish a chance to stop a set up before it forms. Of course, you could always end things with a Boom to take out two pokes as well or if your other pokes don’t have good resistance to it or Protect, Destiny Bond may be a better choice.


Dewgong@Leftovers
Adamant, Hydration
252 Hp, 192 Def, 64 Sp.D
Rest
Encore/Disable
Fake Out
Aqua Tail/Avalanche

Dewgong is a unique wall that works very well against RD teams. With Hydration, as long as there is rain coming down it is cured of all status ailments. With this ability, Rest allows you to have a one turn full heal without having to sleep it off. Encore and Disable are used to either force the opponent to use the last move or stop them from using it, depends on what your party needs. Fake Out is a great way to give him a free turn to settle into the rain since you can momentarily stop the other threat. The last move could be either STAB move, depending on what you need to cover.


Ludicolo@Leftovers
Calm, Rain Dish
204 Hp, 200 Sp.D, 48 Def, 4 Spe
Leech Seed
Protect
Grass Knot/Giga Drain
Toxic/Fake Out/Substitute

The EV’s give it both max Leftovers and Rain Dish recovery. This guy works amazingly at shutting down a Double Surf or Rain Dance team. He has x4 resistance to water, making any water move almost pointless against him. Leech Seed is for bonus Hp recovery and it usually forces a switch. Protect is to get an extra free recovery turn and allow a partner to execute a move that would normally hurt it (EX: EQ). Grass Knot is for heavier pokes where as Giga Drain gives you even more recovery potential. If you chose Giga Drain, you’re going to want to stay away from Fake Out, seeing as it won’t help you in the stalling game. Toxic will slowly whittle away at a foe and works well with Leech Seed where as Substitute will give you status effects resistance and more time to heal it all back. This poke is more meant to stall the opponent out more than anything else.

***NOTES: Most other pokes with Swift Swim will work as counters; however do not make them as dependant on the rain since you may be facing teams without RD. Kindgra does very very well against RD, but is more useful as part of a RD team, not to counter one.

~~~SUNNY DAY COUNTERS
-Sunny Day is a move that not only helps out Fire types, but a lot of Grass type pokes benefit from the sunlight as well. Usually constituted with a lot of Fire moves, this type of team can rain destruction while using various abilities to keep foes on their toes. While the sun is up, Fire moves get a 1.5x boost, Water moves power are cut in half, Thunder’s accuracy drops to an abysmal 50% (better off with Zap Cannon at that point lol), Solar Beam doesn’t take a turn to charge up, and Synthesis, Moonlight, and Morning Sun recover 100% of the user’s HP.

Golduck@Leftovers/Light Clay
Modest, Cloud Nine
252 Hp, 180 Def, 76 Sp.D
Calm Mind/Amnesia
Ice Beam/Reflect/Light Screen
Hydro Pump/Seismic Toss
Hypnosis/Reflect/Light Screen/Toxic

Look familiar? Yep, Golduck is back as one of the top Sunny Day counters. He works just about the same, however notice no Psychic. Instead, I would go with Hydro Pump, since it deals with Fires quite quickly and seeing as there is no -50% from the sun, have fun beating on them, especially if you tank with Calm Mind. Still an excellent choice and this most certainly won’t be the last time you see this guy.


Bellossom@Leftovers
Timid, Chlorophyll
252 Hp, 180 Sp.D, 76 Spe (need 31 Spe IV’s)
Sleep Powder/Stun Spore
Grass Knot/Energy Ball/Solar Beam
HP-Ground/Rock
Gastro Acid/Synthesis/Sludge Bomb

I ran the EV’s so this poke would outrun its biggest threats in the DB environment under the sun: Typhlosion and Nintails. Both with max speed cannot outrun this while the sun is up. With the high speed boost, this allows you to Stun Spore or Sleep Powder any threat quickly. Grass Knot and Energy Ball will rival in power when you aren’t fighting with the sun in the sky, while Solar Beam is for those preparing this guy solely to use the sun. Since Water moves lose 50% power when Sunny Day is active, your HP will have to be something else that hits Fire types hard. The last slot is for shutting down other pokes that would benefit from the sun or who rely on their abilities, Synthesis for a full heal, or Sludge Bomb for an extra special attack that deals with most other Chlorophyll’ers. Since the main moves to be afraid of that are Fire based in DB’s are special (Lava Plume, Heat Wave, Eruption), you will need a boost to your Sp.D.


Flygon@Life Orb
Jolly, Levitate
252 Hp, 252 Spe, 6 Hp
Roost
Fire Punch/U-Turn
Earthquake
Stone Edge/Dragon Claw

Didn’t expect to see him as a counter? He has full resist to Earthquake and Discharge as well as Fire resistance. Perfect for taking down a Fire based team, seeing as they usually pack an Electric and/or a Grass type. The obvious first move is Roost, allowing him to continue to deal massive damage and mess with most Sunny Day teams. Fire Punch is good since it gets the SD boost and it is good against Chlorophyll’ers, but U-Turn is what sets him apart from other Dragons: it gives him an attack and switch and it will also deal critical damage to Chlorophyll’ers, most notably the dangerous Exeggutor. Earthquake is very obvious, STAB, SE on Fire types, and its EQ. The last spot is an interesting choice, seeing as you can go for Stone Edge for an attack on Levitating/Flying Fire types or Dragon Claw for another powerful STAB. Do not change the speed EV’s, as it is meant to tie with Typhlosion and Ninetails. THIS SET CAN ALSO BE RUN WITH A CHOICE SCARF WITH ADJUSTED SPEED EV’S AND NATURE.


***NOTES: Most pokes with Flash Fire can switch into an obvious Fire attack and be a counter. Some pokes with Leaf Guard could work, however they are either defensively weak or not fast enough, so only use them with caution. Contrary to what many believe Water types are not effective counters to Sunny Day teams nor are Rock types. Solar Beam takes care of both of them, so don’t expect either choice to really affect them too much.


~~~HAIL COUNTERS
-Hail teams are usually taken lightly, seeing as how few pokes have abilities that benefit from it. However, in the right hands, Hail teams can be more deadly than most could imagine. Usually stemming from an Abomasnow lead starting never ending hail and leading into Ice types or pokes that can use the signature move of hail teams: Blizzard. Both Blizzard and Thunder are almost always traded for the more accurate Ice Beam and Thunderbolt, however, with weather effects, the accuracy boost received makes the power hitting moves the main choice. Under Hail, all non-Ice type pokes without abilities that works with hail take 1/16th every turn, Blizzard is boosted to 100% accuracy with 25% pierce, and Synthesis and the like are reduced to 25%. Hail works a lot like Sandstorm, however SS doesn’t make a move ridiculously overpowered/useful. However, most Hail teams are dependent on the Hail in order to function, so taking it away my simply destroy their strategy, however good luck doing that and getting away scot-free.

Golduck@Leftovers/Light Clay
Modest, Cloud Nine
252 Hp, 180 Def, 76 Sp.D
Calm Mind/Amnesia
Focus Blast/Reflect/Light Screen
Psychic/Seismic Toss
Hypnosis/Reflect/Light Screen/Toxic

He’s back, again. This time he takes away everything the Hail team has going for it. He now should have the option of carrying Focus Blast, since Fighting moves are SE against Ice type. However, if you do carry that move you should have Psychic as well just in case your team runs into a troublesome Froslass. Just as good at shut downs and team support as ever.


Lapras@Leftovers
Careful, Water Absorb
252 Hp, 188 Sp.D, 68 Def
Dragon Dance/Curse
Waterfall/Rest/Sleep Talk
Toxic/Sing/Rest/Sleep Talk
Return/Body Slam/Waterfall

If you decided to run Dragon Dance, consider adding 6 Spe from your Def so that you can outrun other DD Lapras’. Lapras is almost the perfect counter to Hail teams. With an x4 resist and Water Absorb, it can effectively shut down most Ice types pokes, since the common combo is Ice/Water. Dragon Dance is to boost up and sweep where as Curse it so help with Trick Room teams as well as Hail. Waterfall is for a nice STAB that benefits from both DD or Curse, Toxic or Sing gives you a good status move (though Toxic is far more reliable), or you could simply go with a Rest Talking boosting set, giving you max tank ability with minimal options to use the offense. Return and Body Slam is for coverage, since you are almost sure to see another Water type on a Hail team.


Empoleon@Leftovers
Modest, Torrent
252 Sp.A, 252 Sp.D, 6 Hp
Surf/Flash Cannon
Grass Knot
HP-Rock
Roar/Yawn/Stealth Rock

Not needing to outrun the enemy pokes as too much, this guy does just about the same as Lapras, only dishing out much more damage. He also has an x4 resist to Ice and a x2 resist to Water, shutting down their two main sources of offense. With a Sp.D, he can literally shrug off Blizzards and just about OHKO almost every poke they would carry with them. Surf is a good move to keep in mind since it is really powerful STAB with good coverage but Flash Cannon is also SE against Ice and is also a STAB. Grass Knot deals with the common Ice/Water types that just about every Hail team is bound to have and scores a powerful hit against Mamoswine. HP-Rock scores an SE hit against every Ice type in game except Mamoswine and x4 against Articuno and the lolable Delibird. Roar allows you to pseudo haze any poke that has been boosting its Sp.D with Calm Mind, such as Jinx and Yawn almost always forces a switch while Stealth Rock will critically hurt any Ice type poke switching in or being forced in.


Infernape@Life Orb
Naughty, Blaze
24 Att, 252 Sp.A, 232 Spe
Flamethrower
Close Combat
Grass Knot
Stealth Rock

Seem familiar? Yep, a tweaked Mixape. This guy is only slightly on the risky side since he is weak to Water, one of Ice’s main sources of attack, however only Weavile and Froslass can outrun this Ice-slaying beast and neither have a Water move outside of HP. Flamethrower is a powerful STAB that will just simply end all non-Water/Ice types that can resist Hail. Close Combat deals with those who have high Sp.D’s and are Water/Ice type, where Grass Knot covers the low Def ones. Stealth Rock allows just about every shot to be OHKO guaranteed. This guy just rips apart Hail teams so fast the opponent’s head with spin.


Heatran@Life Orb
Modest, Flash Fire
252 Sp.A, 28 Spe, 228 Hp
Magnet Rise/Stealth Rock
Heat Wave
Dragon Pulse
Explosion

Oh yeah, Heatran rape time. He also has an x4 resist to Ice, making him a great switch in to Blizzard. The Speed EV’s are to outrun minimum base 80 pokes Glalie and Mamoswine which are both common on Hail teams. Magnet Rise will help you with this things worst threat, Earthquake, where as Stealth Rock takes care of iffy OHKO’s. Heat Wave hits both enemies HARD, getting a STAB and LO boost as well as the nice 394 Sp.A to back it. Though not very common, Dragons sometimes are included in Hail teams since using Ice against a Hail team is usually a no no, and Dragon Pulse will deal with that problem swiftly. And as Heatran is also known for, wait till his Hp drops too low and go out with a Boom, seeing as with hail this guy will only last 6 turns total (this goes for Infernape as well, forgot to mention that). Scarftran also works, btw, however this can kill faster since it has a much better Sp.A and the speed isn’t really needed too much.

***NOTES: Fire types usually work well, however due to the abundance of Ice/Water, they are slightly hindered. Rock types have the same problem with both Water and Ice moves. Steels do very well as do Water, however Water types lack too many moves that hit Ice hard.


~~~SANDSTORM COUNTERS
Sandstream leads have always been effective in both styles of combat, singles and doubles. With a good chunk of pokes that actually resist Sandstorm these teams can be pretty versatile. However, SS teams slightly suffer since the only ability that benefits from it is Sand Veil and is the only weather effect that doesn’t boost the power of an attack (besides Weather Ball, but that’s a given). This limits the team’s power and versatility. When the sand is raging, all non-Rock, Steel, and Ground type pokes take 1/16th every turn, all Rock pokes get a 1.5x boost to their Sp.D, Solar Beam’s BP is reduced to 60, Thunder’s accuracy is dropped to 50%, and Synthesis and the like only recover 25%. That being said, SS teams are more about defending the team (especially Rock types) than powering it up.

Golduck@Leftovers
Modest, Cloud Nine
252 Hp, 180 Def, 76 Sp.D
Calm Mind/Amnesia
Ice Beam/Focus Blast/Reflect/Light Screen
Hydro Pump/Seismic Toss
Hypnosis/Reflect/Light Screen/Toxic

He’s back once more as the almighty SS shut down. Now, why does he work so well against SS teams? Because the team is based on defense other than attack. The other teams are sure to be able to deal with their weather being out since they needed more defensive stats and their moves should still have some good power. SS teams are meant to abuse the 1.5x boost, and taking that away could prove fatal to their whole team. This set is more focused on getting some solid hits in since while this guy is out you can get more damage on the enemy than when he is not. This will help you greatly to taking out T-Tar and other pokes that are a threat while SS is up.


Relicanth@Choice Band
Adamant, Rock Head
252 Att, 136 Sp.D, 120 Def
Head Smash
Aqua Tail
Earthquake
Bounce/Dive

Relicanth is a good team member and shut down for SS teams. He gets the 1.5 boost and already has high Def, making him a great tank. However with weakness to Ground, Electric, and x4 to Grass, you shouldn’t be keeping him in without proper help. His attack gets a powerful Band boost and with Rock Head and STAB Head Smash, he can deal some heavy damage to the enemy. Aqua Tail strikes at the common Water weakness of Rock and Ground types where as Earthquake covers Steels and Rocks as well. The last spot is kind of filler; however it gives your partner poke to unleash a powerful attack that would normally hit the other three pokes. You also get a move to strike Grass hard or another good STAB.


Shuckle@Leftovers
Impish, Gluttony
252 Hp, 252 Def, 6 Sp.D
Stealth Rock
Gastro Acid
Helping Hand/\Acupressure
Knock Off/\Bug Bite

Yes, if anyone knows my thread, they will recognize the Shutdown Shuckle. With both ridiculously high defenses because of the SS, this guy is probably the best mix wall in the game. Stealth Rock for SS teams who need to switch pokes in and out commonly, thus slowly whittling away at their health. Gastro Acid is to shut down pokes depending on their abilities, which is extremely common. You can choose either Helping Hand and Knock Off OR Acupressure and Bug Bite, since you can’t have Acupressure and Knock Off on the same set. Both work to power up the partner and take items away from the opponent.


Flygon@Life Orb
Adamant, Levitate
252 Hp, 252 Spe, 6 Hp
Roost
U-Turn
Earthquake
Dragon Claw/Fire Punch

Remember Flygon? Yeah, he’s good at countering SS too. He doesn’t need as much speed this time since most of the pokes you’re going to be seeing are slow and bulky, so the extra attack will definitely help. You want U-Turn for sure this time since T-Tar takes heavy damage from this and you can switch another poke that is more defensive. However, Dragon Claw on this set would leave you in a bad spot against Skarmory, so if you really have no other way to combat it on your team Fire Punch is something to consider, otherwise go with the STAB good coverage move.


Swampert@Leftovers
Impish, Torrent
252 Hp, 180 Def, 76 Att
Curse/Rest/Sleep Talk
Superpower/Hammer Arm/Rest/Sleep Talk/Roar
Waterfall/Aqua Tail
Earthquake

With the resistance to SS, two STABS that cover all the pokes that are usually on an SS team, and plenty of bulk with resistance to Rock and Steel, this guy shuts down SS teams pretty well. His weakness is similar to Relicanth’s, x4 to Grass. As long as you take care of any Grass threats (Cradily) this guy could potentially sweep all the opposing pokes. You can go for a Curser for tankability or RstTlk for status absorbing. The option of Roar is open for Cursers along with Superpower and Hammer Arm as a way to counter other Cursers and get full use of previously laid Spikes/SR. Waterfall or Aqua Tail for a powerful Water STAB and Earthquake because it’s STAB EQ.

***NOTES: Since Rock types will benefit from the Sp.D, most almost automatically become effective tanks/mix walls. The best way to beat this kind of team is to wipe out their lead SSer and throw your own weather effect up.

Cuthrout
18th December 2008, 12:47 PM
i use a zapdos with discharge, with my adamant electivire, with life orb :) kinda makes a beastly pokemon :D. then i use a curse muk with a gengar, the muk uses explosion when its about to die :) gengar can carry on. my final two are cherrim with sunnyday and helping hand with a typhlosion with eruption :) the stab from the eruption along with sunnyday boost with cherrims boost from ability and helping hand boost means the typlosion can 2 hit KO swamperts when its at full hp

Rhys29
18th December 2008, 12:52 PM
i use a zapdos with discharge, with my adamant electivire, with life orb :) kinda makes a beastly pokemon :D. then i use a curse muk with a gengar, the muk uses explosion when its about to die :) gengar can carry on. my final two are cherrim with sunnyday and helping hand with a typhlosion with eruption :) the stab from the eruption along with sunnyday boost with cherrims boost from ability and helping hand boost means the typlosion can 2 hit KO swamperts when its at full hp

You're trying to fit too many combinations into one team >.>
What if Electivire gets OHKO'd by EQ before you can Discharge?
If Gengar gets taken out while Muk is charging up, he would have to kill your partner when it uses Explosion.
Plus, uh, I hope you wouldn't seriously consider using Eruption twice on a Swampert... Solar Beam is the way to go there.

You have much to learn about DB's.

Igottapoo
18th December 2008, 2:48 PM
A flying type and ground type is my best strategy. I need my earthquake

Kaisou
18th December 2008, 3:31 PM
You're trying to fit too many combinations into one team >.>
What if Electivire gets OHKO'd by EQ before you can Discharge?
If Gengar gets taken out while Muk is charging up, he would have to kill your partner when it uses Explosion.
Plus, uh, I hope you wouldn't seriously consider using Eruption twice on a Swampert... Solar Beam is the way to go there.

You have much to learn about DB's.

People learn fast, xD
Great guide, by the way! I need to get my team fully set up before
I pay too much heed to it, I need to see what I have have trouble
fighting first. From what it seems, everyone
should keep a Psyduck trailing behind them at all times ,eh?

Rhys29
18th December 2008, 5:18 PM
Golduck is almost literally the perfect counter to Weather effects, but that's not to say he's the best for your party. If you use a weather effect he can make things kind of tricky to pull off. He's also on the frail side and a potential two attacks coming his way he may not last too long. However, he is still a great poke to look at when it comes to counters.

Blue Raja
18th December 2008, 10:22 PM
Certain pokes lend themselves more readily to the double battle mileau.

The obvious example of this is Plusle and Minum who only achieve their full potential when battling as a team.

Here is a partial list of good teammates. Pokes who support your "star" monsters. Feel free to add to this list and explain why you like a certain pokemon as a teammate.

My Personal Top Ten.

(Feel free to add your own faves.)

Weavile- Fast, high attack, two priority attacks. One is 100% flinch (fake out) and the other is a STAB powered ICE attack (ice shard).

Togekiss- Amazingly versatile, I personally use 6 different variations of this poke. Has access to two priority moves. Extreme speed (used in the hustlekiss variant usually), and follow me. Follow me is one of the most powerful moves in doubles. Toge is immune to EQ, has access to wish and roost,

Smeargle- the little artist is priceless because he can hold any of the priority moves. He can combine very rare and useful moves like spore, and belly drum, and baton pass. I must have 20 different smeargles that I use for doubles.

Metagross- one of the best pokes around. Has access to STAB priority move Bullet Punch. Can be used in TR teams, normal teams, stall teams, heck- 'gross can be useful on any team.

Gyarados- 'dos is a beast and loses nothing in doubles. Just switching him in and out cuts the attack on both or your opponent pokes. Intimidate is much more useful in doubles. He can taunt, power up, and flinch. All three are very useful in doubles.

Bronzong- Explode, Trick Room, combined with durability. You will see this guy a lot in doubles.

Ludicolo- Fake Out, and Leech Seed. Several powerful STAB attacks. Great staller/waller with Rain Dish, and decent sweeper with Swift Swim. Again, you will see the Ludicrous one often.

Cresselia- Calm mind version. When properly played, the moonlight poke can outlast your opponent.

Aerodactyl-Rock Slide. STAB rock with 30% flinch and it hits both opponents.

Typhlosion- Choice (scarf or specs) Eruption. Now What!

Rhys29
18th December 2008, 10:38 PM
Some of these are good, however it more depends on what your other poke is. Some I would have to dissagree with. Just because one poke has a priority attack doesn't necessarily mean it's going to beat out your opponent. Your teammates are more geared towards actually softening up the team more than helping your other poke, going more for offense than utility. I'm going to be making more guides soon, seeing as how the last one has had great success. Blue Raja, PM me if you want to help lol.

Digital Love
19th December 2008, 12:21 AM
A strategy I used to use was a Lanturn and an Electivire, both using Discharge. Of course Lanturn would have Surf to counter Grounds, It would also have Protect so Electivire could EQ any other electric coming in. Ice Beam for Lanturn and Cross Chop and Protect for Electivire. It did pretty well

CROWN
19th December 2008, 12:45 AM
Okay I have so many strategies but I'll just list one for now. Espeon with Psychic/Grass Knot/Shadow Ball/HP(ICE). He is sent out after my AgiliPlot Ambipom It has Water Pulse/Agility/NastyPlot/Baton Pass. They are used with Umbreon who has: Dark Pulse/Mean look/Signal Beam/Fake Tears. Umbre uses ML followed by FT. While AgiliPlot uses NP and Agility then BPs out to Espy. Espy then proceeds to decimate most any pokemon that comes his way. Especially with Umbre there to provide support. What do you think? Also is there a format I should use to make this easier to understand Rhys29?

Rhys29
19th December 2008, 12:57 AM
A strategy I used to use was a Lanturn and an Electivire, both using Discharge. Of course Lanturn would have Surf to counter Grounds, It would also have Protect so Electivire could EQ any other electric coming in. Ice Beam for Lanturn and Cross Chop and Protect for Electivire. It did pretty well
... Earthquake... go Zappy over Lanturn for better results.

Okay I have so many strategies but I'll just list one for now. Espeon with Psychic/Grass Knot/Shadow Ball/HP(ICE). He is sent out after my AgiliPlot Ambipom It has Water Pulse/Agility/NastyPlot/Baton Pass. They are used with Umbreon who has: Dark Pulse/Mean look/Signal Beam/Fake Tears. Umbre uses ML followed by FT. While AgiliPlot uses NP and Agility then BPs out to Espy. Espy then proceeds to decimate most any pokemon that comes his way. Especially with Umbre there to provide support. What do you think? Also is there a format I should use to make this easier to understand Rhys29?
No, I got this right away, however this is so linear it hurts. Plus you forget the opponent has another poke, so they are free to both beat on your poke setting up. As poweful as you can make one poke, if the opponent statuses it or Roar/WW's it, you just lost a bunch of turns.

For strategies, this can makes things a lot easier to understand: (Turn)* Poke - Move < Targetted. For example:
(1) * Umbreon - Mean Look
(2) * Umbreon - Fake Tears
(3) * Umbreon - Baton Pass < Ambipom

Something like that can make it easier to understand I guess.

dabicho
19th December 2008, 1:43 AM
I usually go out with my Zapdos and Torterra.
THey've got Discharge, Air Cutter, Ancient Power and twister(good chance of flinching, though I have thought mybe give him thunder instead to let him work with Lapras better) for zapdos (I will probably try a rotom form when it is possible to use it in PBR or a PBR like game). And EarthQuake, Wood Hammer, Crunch and Rock Slide. Unfortunately, Zapdos can use Discharge only when Torterra is it's teammate.
Then Ive got a Charizard with Heat Wave, Air Slash, Dragon pulse and Focus Blast. He can team with Torterra too as it is not affected by earthquake.
Then Ive got umbreon with assurance (as I always carry attacks that affect two pokemon, assurance in a slow umbreon is almost always sure to make some damage), screech, moonlight and confuse ray
Then I can go too with Lapras with HP Earth (very lucky, I know), Surf, rain dance and blizzard, who teams well with My Dry Skin Toxicroak who has got Cros Chop, X Scissor, Ice Punch and poison jab
I know, of course, that I cant team up Zapdos with Lapras and Lapras with Charizard very well as each can really harm the other. Also, the Rain Dance.
But I just like those pokes

Kaisou
19th December 2008, 1:56 AM
Hah, I love roar/WW. Im keeping Roar on Arcanine just to mess
up my openents plans. If they have out something that threatens
Typhlosion and Ninetales/Arcanine and for some reason their move sets can't
take care of it, I just can roar the threat and switch for one
of my counter pokemon, like Kingdra.

Kingdra is great for my DB imo, because I can switch it in against
a RD user and have it benifit from rain dance. It Dracos Meteors
the main threat, and then I get SD set up again. It has very few
weaknesses, and it has a move pool to make up for everything
that may do high damage to Typhlosion and my other Fire
Sweepers.

Rhys, what grass type would you recomend for my team?
I have a shiney eevee I want to use as a Leafeon, but it would
only serve as a wall, which I don't like. Something with Chlor. of
course... I'll have to look into it.

Rhys29
19th December 2008, 2:39 AM
I usually go out with my Zapdos and Torterra.
THey've got Discharge, Air Cutter, Ancient Power and twister(good chance of flinching, though I have thought mybe give him thunder instead to let him work with Lapras better) for zapdos (I will probably try a rotom form when it is possible to use it in PBR or a PBR like game). And EarthQuake, Wood Hammer, Crunch and Rock Slide. Unfortunately, Zapdos can use Discharge only when Torterra is it's teammate.
Then Ive got a Charizard with Heat Wave, Air Slash, Dragon pulse and Focus Blast. He can team with Torterra too as it is not affected by earthquake.
Then Ive got umbreon with assurance (as I always carry attacks that affect two pokemon, assurance in a slow umbreon is almost always sure to make some damage), screech, moonlight and confuse ray
Then I can go too with Lapras with HP Earth (very lucky, I know), Surf, rain dance and blizzard, who teams well with My Dry Skin Toxicroak who has got Cros Chop, X Scissor, Ice Punch and poison jab
I know, of course, that I cant team up Zapdos with Lapras and Lapras with Charizard very well as each can really harm the other. Also, the Rain Dance.
But I just like those pokes

This looks totally thrown together, seeing as you are somehow ignoring Heat Wave on Zapdos and you lack any sort of wall. Only Lapras could really stand against a BrightPowderGlaceon with Blizzard. You're way to focused on attacking, but I'm sure it has worked for you in the past >.>

@ Kaisou: I am going over my Sunny Day combos right now in my next guide lol. Tangrowth, Shiftry, and Exeggutor work really well with the sun. Btw, I made a better Arcanin set for mixsweep purposes.

Kaisou
19th December 2008, 5:35 AM
Haha, good. I have been EVing my Growlithe, and am trying to
get heatwave. Honestly, I am going mad. I hate EV training.
I want to make good use of Heat wave, so it is modest. It's only
worthy STAB physical move is Flare Blitz, which has recoil. Mph,
im speed EVing it so I can get Sunny Day up as quick as I possibly
can, and then Typhlosion Erupts before his hp goes down from being
attacked, which weakens Eruption.

lol. I have the Trick Room Pokemon memorized, So I'll just roar them
out if I spot one.

Rhys29
19th December 2008, 5:44 AM
Haha, good. I have been EVing my Growlithe, and am trying to
get heatwave. Honestly, I am going mad. I hate EV training.
I want to make good use of Heat wave, so it is modest. It's only
worthy STAB physical move is Flare Blitz, which has recoil. Mph,
im speed EVing it so I can get Sunny Day up as quick as I possibly
can, and then Typhlosion Erupts before his hp goes down from being
attacked, which weakens Eruption.

lol. I have the Trick Room Pokemon memorized, So I'll just roar them
out if I spot one.

Actually Arcanine works better than Typhlosion if you want to go for sweeping... here ya go, sneak peak at my Mixcanine:

Arcanine@Choice Scarf
Mild/Rash, Flash Fire
156 Att, 252 Sp.A, 102 Spe
Flare Blitz
Heat Wave
Solar Beam
Dragon Pulse/Thunder Fang/Extremespeed

Fire mixsweep for you to work with. His speed EV's are set so he outruns capped 100 base pokes which includes pokes such as Salamence, Tentacruel, and Flygon. This guy is meant to switch in on an oncoming Fire attack aimed at a weak Grass type and then go to town. With 31 EV's in both Att and Sp.A, they hit 296 and 328 respectively. With Flash Fire boost, they go up to 444 and 492 when you use a Fire based attack, so he's there for the sweep. Flare Blitz is easily the best physical Fire attack outside Sacred Fire and Arcanine has an alright chunk of HP. Just don't go hitting Blissey with this thing. Heat Wave maximizes the use of Flash Fire, dealing huge damage to the enemies. Solar Beam is obviously there for when the sun is up and you need something to hit waters fast. The last option is really your choice, Dragon Pulse for Dragons and Kingdra, Thunderfang for Waters and Fliers, and Extremespeed for a powerful priority strike. Heres something you might want to look at: Heat Wave BP - 100 x 1.5 (STAB) x 1.5 (Sunny Day) x 1.5 (Flash Fire) = 337.5 BP. Flare Blitz BP: 120 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 = 405. That's some huge power he's holding. The best way to take out opposing Grass types with or one of the better mixsweeps for a Sunny Day team. You could also switch his item to Life Orb if you feel you can handle the speed/Hp loss.

Rhys29
19th December 2008, 9:52 AM
Alright, part II of my on going series of DB info. Here I list several underused or overlooked pokes that you could use for your TR/Weather teams. Enjoy!

NOTE: Since I have far too many characters, this will not be on my front page. I am trying to find a place to put all this information... >.> however, ask and I will send you a full copy of the full guide and send you the attachments as I create them via E-Mail.

~RHYS29'S DOUBLE BATTLE TEAM GUIDE
In my first installment, I went over useful counters that could add to your team to help deal with teams you are weak against. Now you know who
counters which team, however I know some of you are looking for more pokes who can benefit your team. I'm going to be going over several pokes
that can benefit your types of teams, dealing with the same 5 strategies from the first installment (TR, SD, RD, H, and SS teams). Hopefully you will all
benefit! Remember, / means you could choose either option, * means its part of a set and it's far smarter to go with that option over the others.


~~~TRICK ROOM TEAMS
Trick Room, as stated, makes all the slower pokes go first. Many power hitters who were at first hindered by their speed now use it as their lifeline for
going first. Most pokes that are slow are bulky as hell, so defense rarely is needed. So as you can tell most pokes in here will simply be meant to sweep
the crap out of an opponent's team in the 5 turns you are given. The 5 top pokes who use Trick Room are Bronzong, Dusknoir, Slowbro, Slowking,
and Porygon2; so I will not be discussing them.


Torkoal@Leftovers
Relaxed, White Smoke
252 Hp, 252 Def, 6 Sp.D
Protect/Curse
Amnesia
Heat Wave/Eruption/Earthquake/Explosion
Will-o-wisp/Yawn/Stealth Rock

Torkoal is an excellent wall that has been held back slightly due to his rediculously low speed. However, being the 3rd slowest poke in the game actually
benefits him at this point. With Protect you can avoid those danged Earthquakes and have your teammate use one or you could give him Curse and start
tanking away with Earthquake or set for a massive Boom when you don't have any more use for him. Amnesia is such a good move for him it's hard to
forget about it. His low Sp.D stat is doubled and under TR he pretty much goes first (the only thing that beats him that you'll see is Shuckle), making him
a great mixwall. He needs one attack to lay some hurt on the opponents, so if you went with Protect your best choices are Heat Wave or Eruption while
Curse can power up Earthquake and Explosion. The last slot helps you do what your partner cannot: status or set up.


Marowak@Thick Club
Brave, Lightning Rod
252 Att, 252 Sp.D, 6 Hp
Thunder Punch
Earthquake
Fire Punch (Ice Punch)
Protect/Sword Dance

It's time for the Wak-O-Tak. Perhaps the best sweeper in all of TR teams. His attack, at this level, is 568. Yeah, holy crap. Now throw in two of the
elemental punches and maybe the best STAB move for DB's and you have the Wak-O-Tak. Thunder Punch is meant to take out bulky waters while TR
is up and increase his survivability. Earthquake is Earthquake. Fire Punch for Grass types and floating steels like Bronzong and Skarmory. The last slot is
how confident you can pull Wak out, Protect allows you to set up TR with him in your lead and Sword Dance makes his attack 1216 with one use,
literally OHKO'ing just about everything in the game (the best poke at Def, Shuckle, takes 86-102&#37; from an EQ with max Def/Hp). Your only problem
with this set is that Flygon might actually be a problem, so you could switch Fire Punch for Ice Punch if you feel really threatened or if that just works
better for your team.


Spiritomb@Leftovers*Iron Ball
Brave, Pressure
252 Hp, 108 Def, 108 Sp.D, 40 Att
Sucker Punch
Will-o-wisp/Hypnosis
Pain Split
Taunt/Torment/Shadow Sneak*Fling

Remember Spiritomb? Yeah, he works well with TR as well as against them. Sucker Punch gives you the jump on any poke that may be slower than
you during TR or faster than you when you're trying to set it up. Once TR is up, you can status most pokes before they can do anything, burning for
attackers and Hypnosis for sleep support. Pain Split gives you an alrgiht choice at HP recovery, so keeping that move is important. The last slot
depends on if you want to stop other set ups while in TR, prevent an opponent from spamming/shut down choice pokes, and Shadow Sneak if you need
another attacking move. If you carry the Iron Ball on him, Fling gives you a powerful one hit attack that could take out a poke that could be giving you
some problems.


Hariyama@Choice Band
Brave, Guts
252 Hp, 252 Att, 6 Sp.D
Close Combat
Ice Punch
Thunderpunch
Stone Edge/Rock Slide/Earthquake

Hariyama rapes on a TR team, simple as that. Your attack hits 558 and with a great physical move pool, he does just almost as well as Marowak.
However, if you get paralyzed, consider it bonus speed and 837 attack since you have guts. Close Combat is the obvious STAB choice since you'll be
moving him in and out, thus fully utilizing the huge attack and drop. Ice Punch for Dragons or any Ground type that may be slow enough to use TR.
Thunderpunch can get a 2HKO on a full defensed Slowbro without Guts. The last move can be Stone Edge for a heavy one-poke attack, Rock Slide to
abuse flinch and TR with solid power, and Earthquake becuase it's Earthquake.


Crawdaunt@Choice Band*Muscle Band/Expert Belt
Brave, Hyper Cutter
252 Att, 252 Hp, 6 Sp.D
Crabhammer/Waterfall
Night Slash/Crunch
Superpower*Swords Dance/Taunt
X-Scissor/Rock Slide*X-Scissor/Rock Slide/Brick Break

Crawdaunt can be a great asset to TR teams seeing as it provides physical Water support. Plus with powering Bands and Belt you can put the hurt on
your foes. You can go for the powerful and critically active Crabhammer if you don't mind the accuracy or Waterfall for the flinch chance and reliability.
Night Slash for critical hit chance or Crunch for defense lowering and higher BP for the next slot. If you went with Choice Band go for Superpower for a
heavy fighting attack. If you didn't, you can Swords Dance to get your attack even higher or stop a set up with Taunt. For the last slot you can go with
X-Scissor for Dark coverage or Rock Slide for flinch and double hitting. If you chose Muscle Band or Expert Belt another good option is Brick Break
to cover the loss of Superpower.

***NOTES: Anything with the base speed of 60 or below can use TR effectively, while those under base 50 are secured as good choices for the speed
barrier. Most teams that deal with TR stick to mostly physical attackers since they are far more common in the lower speed region which makes
physical walls laugh at you. It's good to carry atleast one poke who can mix sweep and one for if you can no longer pull up Trick Room (Iron Ball
Flingers do this well).
###OTHER: After each section I will also list other good poke choices to put on that specific team just so you have more to look at, since I'm really
looking at guys who aren't too common on the teams but still very useful.
Slowbro, Slowking, Parasect (Spore), Gastrodon, Camerupt, Kecleon, Rhyperior, Cradily, Armaldo, Dunsparce, Ocrillery, Carnivine, Azumarill,
Lickilicky, all Regi's, Tangrowth, anything with Curse or Hammer Arm.


~~~SUNNY DAY TEAMS
Sunny Day is all about boosting several moves to full power and going to town. It also has the most abilities it can effect, including Chlorophyll, Solar
Power, Leaf Guard, Forecast, and Dry Skin. In short, Sunny Day teams are all about offense. Seeing as both Grass and Fire types benefit from this
effect, you are probably going to want to stick with these two types.


Exeggutor@Choice Specs*Heat Rock
Modest, Chloropyll
252 Att, 252 Spe, 6 Hp
Solar Beam
Psychic*Psychic/HP-Fire
HP-Fire*Sunny Day/Synthesis/Sleep Powder
Sludge Bomb*Sunny Day/Synthesis/Sleep Powder

Exeggutor quite simply rapes under the sun. His speed clocks at 417 so he can outrun an Electrode who wants to use Rain Dance with it's capped
speed. He can fire off the most powerful Solar Beam of all the Chloropyllers, which simply means running through your opponents one by one with the
powerful STAB move. Psychic is another powerful STAB that covers most of what Solar Beam cannot hit and HP-Fire for the Heat Rock set allows
even more instead of Psyichic (where as Choice Specs gets both). If you are wanting Exeggutor to be the one using Sunny Day, you're gonna have to
give up Synthesis or Sleep Powder for it, but any combination for the last two spots will give you full use of the sun. Exeggutor is usually a must for all
SD teams.


Shiftry@Life Orb
Modest, Chlorophyll
252 Sp.A, 108 Spe, 148 Hp
Nasty Plot
Solar Beam/Grass Knot
Dark Pulse
HP-Fire/Synthesis/Sunny Day

Can you say uber special sweeper? Running the same speed as Exeggutor, he can outrun Electrodes trying to sneak in to stop Solar Beam and then
Boom. With one Nasty Plot, his Sp.A grows to 612. Solar Beam is for rapid fire power shot, where as Grass Knot is more of a just in case more if
you're not carrying Sunny Day or your opponent has shut down Sunny Day (rapiding another weather effect/Golduck). Dark Pulse is a powerful
flinching STAB that works insanely well with Nasty Plot and the Chlorophyll speed boost. The last move slot is dependant on if you are making him a
Sunny Day'er, if not HP-Fire gives a powerful move to counter Steels and Synthesis to keep him truckin (if he takes a hit and lives). Possibly the best
sweeper for SD teams, frail as hell but he works.


Tangrowth@Leftovers
Impish, Leaf Guard
252 Hp, 196 Def, 60 Att
Amnesia
Sleep Powder/Synthesis
Brick Break/Reflect/Leech Seed
Power Whip

Pretty much the best physical wall you can ever have on a SD team. He can also cover his poor Sp.D with Amnesia, allowing him to just plain do his job
better. When the sun is out this guy can get statused, making him a status absorber wall without RstTlking. Sleep Talk is for... well... sleeping while
Synthesis will give you 100% health in sunlight. The next slot is for this guys third job: Break screens, create a screen, or recover hp/force switch. Power
Whip is the obvious choice for atleast having 1 attack, seeing as the massive 120 BP does well with a STAB behind it.


Arcanine@Choice Scarf
Mild/Rash, Flash Fire
156 Att, 252 Sp.A, 102 Spe
Flare Blitz
Heat Wave
Solar Beam
Dragon Pulse/Thunder Fang/Extremespeed

Fire mixsweep for you to work with. His speed EV's are set so he outruns capped 100 base pokes which includes pokes such as Salamence,
Tentacruel, and Flygon. This guy is meant to switch in on an oncoming Fire attack aimed at a weak Grass type and then go to town. With 31 EV's in
both Att and Sp.A, they hit 296 and 328 respectively. With Flash Fire boost, they go up to 444 and 492 when you use a Fire based attack, so he's
there for the sweep. Flare Blitz is easily the best physical Fire attack outside Sacred Fire and Arcanine has an alright chunk of HP. Just don't go hitting
Blissey with this thing. Heat Wave maximizes the use of Flash Fire, dealing huge damage to the enemies. Solar Beam is obviously there for when the sun
is up and you need something to hit waters fast. The last option is really your choice, Dragon Pulse for Dragons and Kingdra, Thunderfang for Waters
and Fliers, and Extremespeed for a powerful priority strike. Heres something you might want to look at: Heat Wave BP - 100 x 1.5 (STAB) x 1.5
(Sunny Day) x 1.5 (Flash Fire) = 337.5 BP. Flare Blitz BP: 120 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 = 405. That's some huge power he's holding. The best way to take
out opposing Grass types with or one of the better mixsweeps for a Sunny Day team. You could also switch his item to Life Orb if you feel you can
handle the speed/Hp loss.


Magmortar@Leftovers
Modest, Flame Body
252 Hp, 212 Sp.D, 46 Sp.A (31 IV's in Hp, Sp.A)
Sunny Day/Barrier
Lava Plume/Heat Wave
Solar Beam/HP-Ground/Thunderbolt
Focus Blast

Magmortar may be slow, but he can become a solid Sp.D tank if you tweak his EV's. If you want a good setup for a Flash Fire sweep, this is your man.
He can get the sun high in the sky or Barrier up his low, low defense to increase his survivability. Lava Plume if you plan on using him with anything with
Flash Fire or Heat Wave to avoid hitting your partner. The next move is for coverage and knowing what you need him to be constantly battling: Solar
Beam for Water/Ground types, HP-Gound for other Fires, and Thunderbolt for Fliers that resist Fire. Focus Blast is for a T-Tar that decides to switch
in or overall Rock/Dark coverage. He also has a Scarfed mixsweep set, but it's not as useful. He is also a good special sweeper, btw, so he has other
options.

***NOTES: Sunny Day teams tend to rely too much on the sun, but damn to they rape in it. This is why almost every team should have one or two
ways to take out a Sunny Day team or atleast its sun. Water might not be your best choice seeing as how Sunny Day cuts the power in 2 and Rock and
Ground types get shot down by Solar Beam. Dragons are a good way to beat this, seeing as how they have resistance to both. Be on the watch for
pokes such as Salamence and Kingdra and keep a Dragon move handy.
###OTHER: Cherrim, Leafeon, Bellossom, Vileplume, Tropius, Jumpluff, Victreebel, Moltres, Ninetails, Typhlosion, Rapidash, Infernape, Charizard,
Blaziken, Flareon, Heatran, Solrock, Salamence, Flygon, Castform.


~~~RAIN DANCE TEAMS
Rain Dance is for water types, simple as that. Many Water types have Swift Swim which doubles their speed in the rain. It is also the best way to shut
down a Sunny Day team. With Double Surfing bein as spammed as it is, this team is going to be really common. Water is also the most abundant type of
poke in the game, making these teams pretty versatile. However, Water isn't the only type benefitting from the rain...


Electrode@Focus Sash
Hasty, Soundproof/Static
252 Sp.A, 172 Spe, 84 Att
Rain Dance
Thunder
Thunder Wave/Light Screen/Taunt
Explosion

Maybe the most common Rain Dance team lead. With those EV's, he outruns all pokes on the 130 speed base, including Aerodactyl, Jolteon, and
Crobat. His job is to lead off and just get that Rain Dance in to get the rest of the party going. After he does that, he can rain some destruction with
Thunder at 100% accuracy. The third slot is for what else you could use him for: status support, screening, and set up shut downs. The only poke that
can set a weather effect before him (non-Scarfed) is Ninjask or another Electrode with capped speed, but with Sunny Day and Sandstorm being all he
can do, both choices would be poor on its part so you really don't have to worry about getting that Rain Dance in. With the extra EV's in his attack he
can make a good exit with Boom when his job is done.


Kingdra@Leftovers
Adamant*-Neutral-, Swift Swim
252 Att, 252 Hp, 6 Def (>21 Spe IV's)*178 Hp, 164 Def, 164 Sp.D, 4 Att(>21 Spe IV's)
Dragon Dance
Waterfall
Outrage
Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse

Kingdra is the king of Swift Swimmers. Only weak to Dragon type attacks, it's neutral natured speed already reaching 394 with atleast a 22 point
investment during rain, and the fact that it can Dragon Dance makes it a tanking beast. Dragon Dance is a duh for this guy since he's solid enough to pull
it off and keep it going for several turns. Waterfall is a very powerful flinching STAB, giving Kingdra's speed another bonus. Outrage is obvious: one of
the best Dragon moves in the game with STAB behind it and Dragon Dance. Draco Meteor is for a quick and powerful special attack where as Dragon
Pulse is more for long term usage. The Neutral natured set I gave is interesting, seeing as how with no IV's, it's Hp reaches 304, protecting it from 3
seismic tosses and max Leftovers recovery. This is a far more bulky set and after a Dragon Dance or two this guy will actually tank much better than it's
counterpart. However, if you want the attack right away, go for the Adamant set. Either way this guy is usually at the core of most RD teams and for
good reason.


Kabutops@Damp Rock
Adamant, Swift Swim
252 Att, 252 Hp, 6 Spe (=31 Spe IV's)
Swords Dance/Stealth Rock/Rain Dance
Stone Edge/Rock Slide
Superpower/Brick Break/Night Slash
Waterfall/Aqua Tail

I love Kabutops. He's like a badass Scyther with fish-like qualities. This guy is great for Rain Dance teams because it can easily counter Fire based
teams with its x4 resist to Fire (watch out for the x4 SE Solar Beam) and gains the Rock Sp.D boost from Sandstorm teams. He's also Rock type, so
he gets extra damage on Hail teams as well. Unfortunately, since he's not bulky or fast enough without the rain, it holds him back from being a true
counter to the teams. With a 32 point investment he hits 394 like Kingdra in the rain, helping to boost his very low Hp. However he provides excellent
sweeping options and is welcomed to any RD team. Swords Dance makes this guy's attack 722, which is rape tastic. Stealth Rock will help with party
support if you need extra damage agianst Hail or Sunny Day teams that need to switch often. You could make him one of your Rain Dancers since he
needs the speed pretty bad. Stone Edge is for a power hit on one poke where as Rock Slide hits both enemies with a chance of flinch. If you are going
with Swords Dance, it is recommended that you use Brick Break or Night Slash (Brick Break being the better option usually unless you need more
Ghost/Psychic support) since you lose your boost with Superpower, however it will get you an insanely powerful shot, so it's still an option. Depending
on what you want him to do, you can go for Waterfall for more flinches or Aqua Tail for more power.


Lanturn@Leftovers
Modest, Volt Absorb
252 Hp, 104 Sp.D, 148 Sp.A, 6 Spe
Thunder/Discharge
Icy Wind/Discharge/Rain Dance
Surf/Brine
Thunder Wave/Toxic/Stockpile

Lanturn is the best way to combat Electric types on a Rain Dance team. The 6 speed is to outrun a non-boosted Hypno to avoid his Hypnosis and such.
Thunder is for a powerful Electric attack on a single foe while you can combo Discharge with any Ground/Water type or Volt Absorb pokes on your
team and go for a double hit/partner healer (also you can have a poke use Skill Swap with him so that another poke can nab his Volt Absorb and let the
Discarge supply constant health). You can give this guy both Discharge and Thunder for concentrated and multi hits, make this guy a Rain Dancer for
more party support, and for the last option you are going to want to go Icy Wind>Ice Beam since you can not only hit both pokes, but as long as it hits,
you drop both enemies speed in one shot, making it an amazing support team. If you have other pokes with that have the ability Water Absorb you can
supply more health to them with Surf or you can let Lanturn's low speed allow a powerful second hit to 1/2 health pokes. For the last slot you can
supply status support or he can boost his low defenses with Stockpile to help with his massive health and survivablity.


Suicune@Leftovers
Bold, Pressure
240 Hp, 252 Def, 6 Spe, 12 Sp.A
Calm Mind
Rest*Reflect/Icy Wind
Sleep Talk*Tailwind/Icy Wind
Surf

Suicune is so amazing on a Rain Dance team. Hp EV's set for 401 so that he gets near max Leftovers and is safe from 4 Seismic tosses. That Calm
Minded Surf gets an even bigger boost with the rain coming down, making him a very dangerous heavy hitter. Calm Mind is a duh on Suicune, it being
his signature move due to competitive play. You have an interesting choice for this guy, however. You can make him into a basic Crocune for max
tanking ability by giving him Rest and Sleep Talk. However, he works quite well for the rest of the team if you give him 2 of the other 3 options: Reflect
for screening, the rare Tailwind for boosted speed, and Icy Wind for dropping the opponents' speeds. Surf is the obvisous choice since he should be
teamed up with a Water Absorber at all times.

***NOTES: Relying solely on Water moves may lead to your downfall, no matter how powerful they seem in rain. If a Sunny Dayer pops out you're
pretty much boned since it cuts the attacks in half. Ice is common for all Waters and it actually helps them against the Grass types of Sunny Day teams.
Also keep in mind Thunder's accuracy can drop like a brick under different weather conditions and Swift Swimmers need that extra speed. It's always
smart to keep a couple pokes who don't need the rain and it's a MUST to counter SS and SD teams.
###OTHER: Dewgong, Gorebyss, Omastar, Relicanth, Seaking, Ludicolo, Mantine, Qwilfish, Floatzel, Slowbro/King, Empoleon, Swampert, Lapras,
Vaporeon, Politoad/Wrath, Quagsire, Wailord, Kingler, Blastoise, Feraligatr, Gyrados, Milotic, Sharpedo, Tentacruel, Starmie, Castform.


~~~HAIL TEAMS
Hail teams are defintely the most lacking team when it comes to weather effects. However, Rain Dance and Sunny Day teams need a poke to get the
weather up with the move (outside of Uber), where as Abomasnow can just pop in and Hail starts up. Not quite a Tyranitar, but Abomasnow is going
to be in every Hail team, there's no way around it. However, since Ice covers a lot of types and the uberized Blizzard hits both pokes at 100%
accuracy, non-weather teams may get torn limb from limb. The choices are pretty limited on who you can use for a Hail team, but there are some good
pokes.


Glaceon@BrightPowder
Modest, Snow Cloak
252 Sp.A, 252 Hp, 6 Sp.D
Blizzard
HP-Fighting
Shadow Ball
Helping Hand/Barrier/Wish/Substitute

Remember how Garchomp got banned because he was so damned powerful with 30% evasion in SS? Yeah, Glaceon can imitate it, though it's not even
close to as good. Easily the best Ice type, this guy can tank like crazy. The only thing really holding him back is his low Hp, but with great defense stats
he does just fine. Plus he gets some great avoidability too. Blizzard is really obvious, he can launch the most poweful Blizzard attack of any poke in the
game without stat boosts. HP-Fighting and Shadow Ball give him the best coverage in the game and both are stemmed from it's amazing Sp.A (394
capped). The main reason I'm even mentioning Glaceon, since it's so obvious to use him, is because he can offer more than just a Specs run though. He
can boost a partner's attack if it's for the good of team, he can boost his Def with Barrier and tank even more, Wish can heal him and his other
teammates, and Substitute provides an annoying way to dodge damage. He is almost as essential as Abomasnow in Hail teams.


Regice@Leftovers
Sassy, Clear Body
206 Hp, 252 Sp.D, 52 Def
Curse
Icy Wind
Avalanche/Hammer Arm*Rest/Sleep Talk
Thunder Wave/Charge Beam*Rest/Sleep Talk

You want one of the best mixwall for a Hail team? You got it. Hp EV's for max Leftovers usage. Many argue that Regice can't take hard physical hits.
Many fail to notice Curse. After a couple Curses, its defenses will be incredible, it's Sp.D hitting 548 and it's Def maxing at 654 after 6 Curses. Just
hope you don't get hit with a critical Cross Chop. With the boosted defenses, you can watch as your foe whittles away in the Hail as you heal up. Icy
Wind is just so good for DB's and teamwork it replaces Blizzard on this guy. Since you're not going for a heavy hitting specail move, Icy Wind will help
your slower pokes switch in and get sweeping abilities they never had in the past. You can just go with a RstTlker if you want him to be your main party
wall/Icy Wind support. However, he can start putting dents in his foes pretty quickly. Hammer Arm and Avalanch both work with Curse, Hammer Arm
for an unexpected Fighting power shot and Avalanche to get a great STAB with a potential 120 BP. The last slot for the non RstTlker can could be
Thunder Wave to slow foes down even more or Charge Beam to help with those pesky Water types and boost the power of Icy Wind. Overall a great
wall to be considered with each Ice team.


Weavile@Focus Sash
Adamant/Jolly*Adamant, Pressure
252 Att, 252 Spe, 6 Hp
Fake Out/Ice Shard*Ice Shard
Taunt*Swords Dance
Pursuit/Night Slash
Brick Break/Ice Punch

Like you didn't see this one coming. Weavile's incredible speed and attack will defenitely come in handy for the heavy Sp.A dependant Ice type. He
also has some interesting options, you can go with a weather protection set with Taunt or focus on getting his attack at the maximum with Swords Dance
and go for a sweep. Dealing with priority moves, Fake Out gives you a flinch while Ice Shard gives you a stab, thus making Ice Shard far more useful on
the SD set while it's pretty much your choice on the Taunt. Pursuit works incredibly well with Taunt, stop the guy trying to set up the weather move and
then chase him as he attempts to switch out so he can get the weather up faster. Night Slash also gives you an incredible STAB and is definitely worth
considering due to the crit %. The last option is for what you need: another powerful Ice STAB or a way to deal with T-Tar.


Mamoswine@BrightPowder
Adamant, Snow Cloak
252 Att, 252 Hp, 6 Spe
Ice Shard
Earthquake
Rock Slide/Stone Edge
Curse/Substitute/Amnesia/Superpower

This guy does almost as well as Glaceon. He lacks the defenses, but has just as high attacking stats. He also has a priority attack that Glaceon can't use
nearly as well. Ice Shard is usually gonna be this guys main source of damage, since he wants to hit the opponent before it can hit him, making
Avalanche risky (also since you might dodge the attack with 30% dodge). Earthquake because it's Earthquake. Rock Slide is another good move that
hits both enemy pokes, however Stone Edge might be better since Mamoswine is a little slow to get the flinch. The last move can help him set up for a
sweep, Curse to boost your Att and Def and then go for lots of Ice Shard attacks, throw up a Sub early and watch as opponents attempt to hit it to
break through to you, Amnesia for his very low Sp.D, or Superpower if you plan on moving him in and out.


Walrein@Leftovers
Calm/Careful*Bold/Impish, Ice Body
220 Hp, 204 Sp.D*Def, 84 Def*Sp.D
Substitute
Rest
Sleep Talk
Toxic

Can you say uber stall out? Yes, some may say Walrein is better as a Curser, however using him like so might work even better for a one-man stand.
EV's are set for maximum Leftovers and Ice Body recovery, giving him 1/8th his health back each turn. The difference with the EV * sets are if you
want to make him more Def or Sp.D based. The set is very simple, stall out your opponent. Since nothing resist both Toxic and Hail, you can pretty
much just lock the opponents in with this set and watch them start dropping like flies. Throw up a Sub, Rest off damage while having Sleep Talk throw
up Subs if one fades or Toxic a foe, while Toxic helps stall out faster. This set is not going to work against a Taunter, RstTlker, or a team that still has an
Aromatherapy Bliss with it (Skill Swap is also an option, but pretty rarely used on him). Take out those threats and then you can chuck him in to piss off
your opponent.


**NOTES: The only other poke other than Ice types that won't be affected by the Hail is Clefable with Magic Gaurd, meaing that there is usually one in
every team to fill in what the rest of the team needs. Icy Wind gets mention here more than Blizzard simply because the pokes using Icy Wind are ment
to help set up for one of the slower pokes to sweep. Ice has many weaknesses as a type in general, Rock being it's main weak spot since only
Mamoswine take neutral damage from it and it gets hard hits on Articuno. For this reason you might also want a Rapid Spinner on your party to deal
with Stealth Rock and the like. A tough team to play, but set yourself up, and you'll tear through any unprepared team.
###OTHER: Articuno, Glalie, Froslass, Jynx, Dewgong, Cloyster, Lapras, Clefable, Castform, any poke with Blizzard and/or Leftovers and/or Skill
Swap.


~~~SANDSTORM TEAMS
Sandstorm teams are pretty easy to play since the two main pokes that form the team, Hippodown and Tyranitar, are both OU and incredibly powerful.
These teams are notorious for teaming up with Trick Room, since most Rock/Ground/Steel types are slow and could use the speed boost. The main
abilities of the Sandstorm are to defend your party from damage, not having any power boosts to any moves and bogs down other moves that are
powered up by weather. With that in mind, you have to focus more on attacking than defending with many of your pokes sets to even things out.


Sandslash@BrightPowder
Adamant, Sand Veil
252 Att, 252 Hp, 6 Spe
Substitute
Focus Punch
Earthquake
Swords Dance/Shadow Claw

I feel so bad a poke with such potential is held back. With 30% dodge rate in SS, this guy makes a pretty asset to most teams. Some may prefer
Cacturne to this guy, but his slightly higher speed and much better defenses won me over. Give this guy Substitute and you can get a pretty good shelf
life out of it with the evasion rate. After that, start Focus Punching like crazy, using his pretty good attack stat, so a basic SubPuncher with higher
evasion. Earthquake because it's Earthquake and it's one of the thing that makes this guy better than Cacturne in DB's. The last move is if you want
coverage since several Levitating/Flying pokes could otherwise wall this set (EX: Weezing) or intense power. If you can swap him in at the right time,
you can get a pretty solid sweep out of this guy and he catches many teams off guard.


Rhyperior@Life Orb
Adamant, Rock Solid
120 Hp, 252 Att, 138 Sp.D
Earthquake
Rock Slide
Brick Break/Superpower/Fire Punch
Swords Dance/Curse

Amazing tanker capacity, held back by a x4 weakness to Grass and Water. Obviously this guy is far more equiped to sweep with Bronzong or another
good screener that can Levitate (Xatu and Zapdos do well). His attack is already at 414, so he's set to go on the first turn. Earthquake is there because,
once again, it's Earthquake. Rock Slide for a STAB double Rock hit. Brick Break if you need an anti-screener, Superpower if you need a heavy shot,
or Fire Punch to score a good shot against floating Steels. Swords Dance or Curse to power him up to assist with the sweep. He can do amazingly well
especially in a TR/SS team.


Rampardos@Focus Sash
Adamant, Mold Breaker
252 Att, 252 Spe, 6 Sp.D
Rock Slide
Outrage/Brick Break
Earthquake/Fire Punch
Swords Dance/Rock Polish

Set up 'n smash. This guy has terrible defensive stats with low speed and the only reason to use him on a team is becuase he has the highest attack in
OU. Obviously also works well with a Levitating screener to cover his weak defenses. Since he can deal the most damage in the game with Rock Slide,
why not use it? Outrage is for a late game sweep while you have a Follow Me poke out or you can try Brick Break for a more solid attack. EGBIEQ
(aka: Earthquake because it's Earthquake, I'm getting tired of writing it), but you can also give him Fire Punch to cover floating Steels like Rhyperior.
This move is essential to what you partner will be, you can go Swords Dance if you can draw the attacks with Follow Me or screen him for more
intense power (942 on the first boost) OR if you need Speed>Power go with Rock Polish. Maybe the best Glass Cannon in the game.


Regirock@Leftovers
Careful, Clear Body
204 Hp, 252 Sp.D, 52 Def
Rock Slide
Earthquake
Stealth Rock/Thunder Wave/Explosion
Curse

Besides Shuckle, this is the best mixwall you can get on an SS team. EV's are set for maximum Leftovers and Sp.D will be 492 in SS while its Def is
417. Not only a mixwall, but also a massive tanker, this guy can put the hurt on the opponent. Rock Slide is the obvious STAB choice here for a double
hit. EQBIEQ. You can give him Stealth Rock if you want to start taking chunks off your opponent, Thunder Wave for para support, or Boom for when
you need an extremely powerful shot when you see this thing on its last limb (that might take a while, since a Scarftran can only 4HKO it with Earth
Power). Curse is a must since it rectifies this guy's status as one of the best tankers on SS teams.


Xatu@Leftovers*Light Clay
Bold, Early Bird/Synchronize
252 Hp, 180 Sp.D, 76 Def
Light Screen/Protect
Reflect/Protect
Tailwind
Wish/Psycho Shift*Wish

Xatu?! Usable?! On an SS team?! Sounds dumb huh? However, Xatu offers, literally, the best party boosting abilities in the game. Unfortunately, he has
low defensive stats and not much bulk, but he is absolutely rediculous otherwise. Light Screen and Reflect boost your active pokes Def and Sp.D by
1/3, cutting down a huge amount of damage for up to 5 turns (8 with the Light Clay set). Tailwind doubles speed for both pokes for 3 turns and is a very
rare move, only Articuno, Pigeot, Pelipper, Suicune, and Butterfree can use this move other than this guy. You NEED to have protect if you run the
Light Clay set so you can heal from the SS damage. Wish is good for healing or passing, however Psycho Shift is a monsterous combo in DB's with
Synchronize. Say you got burned by a poke: the user is also burned due to Synchronize and you can pass your burn to the other active poke with
Psycho Shift, making this guy a psuedo-status absorber. Since most pokes on SS teams call for a floating screener and lack speed, this is definitely a
good choice if you're looking for some surprise and massive support.


***NOTES: You only need to carry one Sandstream poke with you for these parties to work, but you have to MAKE SURE you protect that guy,
since other weather teams will eat you if you can no longer raise the sand. With all the EQ pokes, keeping a few Levitating defenders is a really good
idea so you can launch as many EQ as you need without worrying.
###OTHER: Cacturne, Steelix, Quagsire, Gastrodon, Camerupt, Golem, Marowak, Donphan, Torterra, Swampert, Claydol, Nidoqueen, Mamoswine,
Nidoking, Gliscor, Flygon, Dugtrio, Shuckle, Sudowoodo, Cradily, Armaldo, Omastar, Relicanth, Lunatone, Solrock, Kabutops, Aerodactyl,
Bronzong, Forretress, Empoleon, Magnezone, Scizor, Metagross, Skarmory, Heatran, Lucario, Jirachi, Clefable.

zm_
19th December 2008, 12:04 PM
Bloody hell that is awesome. I am actually tempted to make an anti-weather team now. After my TR team of course.

Larry
19th December 2008, 12:05 PM
Mine is alright...
Jolteon attacks, Kingdra uses Rain Dance, Jolteon uses Protect, Kingdra uses Surf...

Rhys29
19th December 2008, 12:06 PM
Bloody hell that is awesome. I am actually tempted to make an anti-weather team now. After my TR team of course.

What did you like best? lol

Rhys29
19th December 2008, 6:22 PM
Alright, time for part 3 if any of you are paying attention >.>

~RHYS29'S GUIDE TO LITTLE KNOWN DB MOVES~

Yes, I'm back for round three because I have nothing better to do. As you have noticed, there are common strategies that are used that depend on the types/abilities/moves of two pokemon. I will list some common ones and ways to not only use them, but also deal with them. Since many of you know many of the common moves used in DB's, I will now list them so I don't have to go over them later:

~Discharge
~Earthquake
~Protect
~Surf
~Lava Plume
~Heat Wave
~Rock Slide
~Blizzard
~Explosion

These are among the most common moves in DB matches and you certainly should watch out for them. A quick counter list for those who don't know:

*Discharge - Any Ground type or poke with Volt Absorb makes this move null and void.
*Earthquake - Flying types or pokes with Levitate avoid this move completely.
*Protect - Hard to avoid, you can Taunt a poke you know may be wanting to use this later.
*Surf - Water Absorb is the best way to avoid this move. Otherwise Kingdra, Palkia, and Ludicolo all have a x4 resist.
*Lava Plume/Heat Wave - Flash Fire pokes feed off these moves.
*Rock Slide - If you are going faster than the poke using it, you will not flinch. Otherwise anything that resists Rock.
*Blizzard - Wate/Ice types laugh at this. Usually only used while Hail is up.
*Explosion - Ghost types are not effected and pokes with Damp prevent this move from working.

With these out of the way, I will now list several moves that can be overlooked when looking for techniques. There are many other moves that become useful in Double Battles, such as Follow Me, but I'm going to cover moves that have been seen little to very little of in DB's.

1. Feint
))) One of the most overlooked moves in the game. Feint is the one sure fire move to hit through Protect and Detect. 50 BP, normal, and Physical type,
it hits the opposing pokes for normal damage and disables Protect/Detect for the turn. This shatters most Explosion team strategies, since they depend
on one poke Protecting and the other going Boom. With this move, you open the enemy up to the Boom, usually taking it with the other poke (yeah,
Smeargle beware). It can also open up pokes who use Protect for a turn to heal when they're low on Hp (ex: Abomasnow) so they can't escape your
fury.
((( Feint is a rare move and almost never seen. Pokes who can use it: Hitmontop, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, Blaziken, Gallade, Medicham, Heracross,
Pinser, Toxicroak, Lucario, Pikachu, Gliscor*, Yanmega, Flygon, Raichu, and Infernape.

2. Teeter Dance
))) This move hits all three pokes in play and confuses them at 100&#37; accuracy. This is an insane move if the opponent has been tanking up and doesn't
want to switch out or you can just pull this out to mess up your enemy. The best way to use this move is to have your partner be a poke with Own
Tempo so they don't get confused and you can just confuse both opponents.
((( Only 3 pokes can use it: Cacturne, Spinda, Mr. Mime*

3. Foresight/Odor Sleuth
))) Looks like a useless move, but is another excellent conter to Explosion strategies. Either the opponent is going to double Boom, Protect one guy, or
use a Ghost type. This removes their ability to nullify Fighting and Normal damage. This is a great way to deal with Noir and other Ghost types without
needing Scrappy. This makes Ghosts no longer immune to Booming, meaning they might have just taken both their own pokes with them.
((( Several pokes can use these moves, I'll list the best ones for the job: Mightyena, Persian, Linoone*, Dusknoir*, Banette*, Girafarig, Medicham,
Hitmonlee, Primeape, Lopunny, Staraptor, and Furret.

4. Block/Mean Look/Spider Web
))) These moves are usually almost useless in singles, but that has changed in DB's. You can have a wall trap a foe and then just wail on him, keep him
there and put him to sleep, slowly status him, shut him down, etc. This can be amazing if you time it and use it right. You can Torment a Choice poke
and Block him so that he just struggles himself to death for an effective way to shut down one poke and watch as he squirms.
((( For this to work you want bulky pokes so they can survive while you hold the enemy poke there: Slowbro, Snorlax, Bronzong, Tangrowth*,
Dusknoir*, Umbreon, Ariados, and Muk.

5. Gravity
))) This move can change a game around. It lasts for 5 turns and anything that can be nullified by the Levitate ability or being Flying type is now vulnerable. This means Spikes and Ground moves can now hit them as though they didn't have Levitate or were Flying type. Also, Jump Kick and High Jump Kick can't be used along with Bounce and Fly, which can be cancelled if the move is used while they are in the air. Strategy? Everything without Protect/Detect gets hit by Earthquake and you can Roar/WW opposing pokes into Spikes and such.
((( Another rare move: Dusknoir*, Wigglytuff, Blissey, and Clefable.

6.Growl/Tail Whip/Leer
))) Seems like a dumb move to have, but lowering both your opponents' Att or Def one stage can be extremely effective, especially if you put it on a fast
poke and hit them with a hard physical move after a Leer/Tail Whip in the same turn. Growl can give you great defensive/stalling capabilities as well.
Something to think about for party support.
((( Too many pokes to list.

7. Mud Sport/Water Sport
))) This move can be essential for long term team defense. Electric moves are halved when you use Mud Sport and Fire moves are halved after Water
Sport. If you're running a Hail/Ice team, Water Sport could be a huge help to defending against Fire pokes. Mud Sport is obviously for Rain
Dance/Water teams looking to even out every Electric attack. This keeps up until the user switches out.
((( Several pokes can use these -
Mud Sport: Slowbro/King, Quagsire, Gastrodon, Gorebyss, Huntail, Crawdaunt, Relicanth, Empoleon, Swampert, Whiscash, Seaking, Mantine*,
Kingler, Blastoise, Feraligatr, Mamoswine, Milotic, Linoone, Sceptile.
Water Sport: Relicanth, Empoleon, Masquerain, Whiscash, Pelipper, Wailrein, Seaking, Dewgong, Ludicolo, Mantine*, Politoad/Wrath, Feraligatr,
Milotic, Golduck, Roserade, Floatzel.

8. Psych Up
))) Let's say you want to boost the crap out of one guy with moves such as Nasty Plot, Swords Dance, Agility, Barrier, or Amneisa. You can have it's
partner just use Psych Up and get the exact same stat boosts with only one guy using the move. Imagine a Calm Minded Magnezone or a Dragon
Dance Absol. Many many possibilities.
((( Too many pokes to list.

9. Power Swap/Guard Swap and Snatch
))) Similar to Psych Up, but more for the opposing team. If you know the opponent is about to boost its stats, you can use Snatch and steal the move
before they even get to use it, so you can completely counter Swords Dance. You can also steal any healing move being used, making it perfect for wall
breaking. Snatch will steal: all self status improvements except Curse, Aromatherapy, Camouflage, Charge, Heal Bell, Heal Order, Ingrain, Light
Screen, Milk Drink, Mist, Moonlight, Morning Sun, Psych Up, Recover, Reflect, Rest, Roost, Safeguard, Softboiled, Stockpile, Subsititute, Swallow,
Synthesis, and Tailwind. Power Swap and Guard Swap are a little more interesting. Lets say a Gyrados switched in on you and you got the Intimidate
lowerage. The next turn you could use Power Swap after it uses Dragon Dance, thus not only boosting your attack, but lower his attack as well. It is
more effective to steal straight up stat boosts, such as Nasty Plot and Amnesia.
((( Power Swap/Guard Swap - All the pokes learn both moves except Alakazam who only learns Guard Swap: Girafarig, Mr. Mime, Xatu, Alakazam,
and Medicham*.
Snatch - Lots of pokes, look it up yourself.

10. Role Play/Skill Swap/Gastro Acid
))) These moves can be crucial to combatting several kinds of teams. You can take Chlorophyll from the opposing poke while the sun is out, effectively
removing them as a speedy threat. Role Play will simply copy the other foes ability and use it as your own, Skill Swap switches the user and target's
abilities, and Gastro Acid knocks an ability out for 5 turns. These moves can literally destroy a Sunny Day or Rain Dance team, since most of the pokes
on the team depend on the weather to work with their abilities to give them a special effect such as doubling their speed. These moves are good for
almost every team, seeing as there are a vast number of other moves. You could Skill Swap away a pokes' ability to Levitate away from its partner's
Earthquake and avoid the attack while they take a full hit. You can Gastro Acid a partnering Regigigas and completely ignore Slow Start or take out
Slaking's Traunt without having to absorb them. If one of your pokes has Chlorophyll and the sun is up you can give one of your slightly slower pokes
the same ability with Role Play. You can Gastro Acid away Water Absorb/Volt Absorb/Flash Fire, copy them with Role Play, or switch for it with Skill
Swap to leave your opponent very vulnerable. These moves change the entire course of most matches.
((( There are several moves here, so several lists:
Gastro Acid - Arbok, Cradily, Shuckle*, Swalot*, Victreebel
Role Play - Alakazam, Hypno*, Mr. Mime
Skill Swap - Lots of pokes, look it up yourself.

Blue Raja
19th December 2008, 9:38 PM
Fake-Out- Flat out the most annoying and maybe the most used move in doubles.

Follow Me-Just like HH, this move is only useful in Doubles. You can protect your teammate, and allow that poke to attack or boost.

Trick-You can cripple a Waller/staller with a simple item switch. You can also creatively use this to boost a teammate.

Attract-your odds of even being able to use this move are greatly increased when two pokes are in play.

Reflect/Light Screen- defend your whole team and stay up even when you switch. These are common in DB.

Tailwind- Gives your team a 50% speed boost for 5 rounds.

Helping Hand-Custum made for doubles- beware even NVE moves when boosted with HH.

Encore- you all know how this one works- but in the fast paced Doubles game if can force a switch, or cripple.

Rock Slide-very effective when your poke moves first.

Hyper-Voice, Air Cutter, Powder Snow, Razor Leaf,Swift, Twister- Medium hitters that effect both foes.

Bubble, Icy Wind, Acid, Muddy Water- Light hitters that have an added effect and hit both foes. These moves deserve a second look in Doubles.

Heatwave, Eruption-big hitters that hit both foes.

Leer, Growl, String Shot, Tail Whip- weak moves in singles- but if you effect two foes with one move? Well now you are getting your monies worth.

Perish Song- combine with mean look or force a switch when your foe is powering up.

Roar- Just found out that Roar counters TR.

Safeguard-combine with swagger to boost ATTACK of your teammate. Or used to stop moves like Dark Void.

Transform-Very useful indeed. You can copy any poke on the field, including your own.

Don't forget Lightning Rod and Storm Drain.
You almost never see them in singles- but doubles is another story.
These abilities can hamstring your opp. if they are stuck on a single move.
One of the moldiest DB duo's is Rhyperior(Lightning Rod) paired with Gyarados. Corny? Yes! Effective? You Bet!
Lightning Rod and Storm Drain draw all moves of the appropriate type- BEWARE- they even effect your own moves rendering them useless.

Rhys29
20th December 2008, 4:14 AM
I was going over rarely used moves that have incredible potential, though these are the more commonly used moves.

Fake-Out- Flat out the most annoying and maybe the most used move in doubles.

Follow Me-Just like HH, this move is only useful in Doubles. You can protect your teammate, and allow that poke to attack or boost.

Trick-You can cripple a Waller/staller with a simple item switch. You can also creatively use this to boost a teammate.

Attract-your odds of even being able to use this move are greatly increased when two pokes are in play.

Reflect/Light Screen- defend your whole team and stay up even when you switch. These are common in DB. Boosts the specified stat by 1/3 for 5 turns, 8 with Light Clay equipped.

Tailwind- Gives your team a 50% speed boost for 3 rounds.

Helping Hand-Custum made for doubles- beware even NVE moves when boosted with HH. Partner's move gets a 1.5 boost.

Encore- you all know how this one works- but in the fast paced Doubles game if can force a switch, or cripple. Best used with Mean Look/Block/Spider Web and Torment. Auto-Struggle KO as long as the ML/B/SWer stays alive since the recoil from Struggle is 25% and Encore lasts a minimum of 4 turns.

Rock Slide-very effective when your poke moves first.

Hyper-Voice, Air Cutter, Powder Snow, Razor Leaf,Swift, Twister- Medium hitters that effect both foes.

Bubble, Icy Wind, Acid, Muddy Water- Light hitters that have an added effect and hit both foes. These moves deserve a second look in Doubles. Icy Wind is usually the best.

Heatwave, Eruption-big hitters that hit both foes.

Leer, Growl, String Shot, Tail Whip- weak moves in singles- but if you effect two foes with one move? Well now you are getting your monies worth.

Perish Song- combine with mean look or force a switch when your foe is powering up.

Roar- Just found out that Roar counters TR. Also wrecks most other strategies, such as stat boosting and Baton Passing.

Safeguard-combine with swagger to boost speed of your teammate. (Dark Void is illegal since it's way too good for DB's)

Transform-Very useful indeed. You can copy any poke on the field, including your own. Limited because only Ditto can use it outside of Uber-Mew.

Don't forget Lightning Rod and Storm Drain.
You almost never see them in singles- but doubles is another story.
These abilities can hamstring your opp. if they are stuck on a single move.
One of the moldiest DB duo's is Rhyperior(Lightning Rod) paired with Gyarados. Corny? Yes! Effective? You Bet!
Lightning Rod and Storm Drain draw all moves of the appropriate type- BEWARE- they even effect your own moves rendering them useless.

Corrections/comments made in bold.

Boomguy
20th December 2008, 9:57 AM
3. Foresight/Odor Sleuth
))) Looks like a useless move, but is another excellent conter to Explosion strategies. Either the opponent is going to double Boom, Protect one guy, or
use a Ghost type. This removes their ability to nullify Fighting and Normal damage. This is a great way to deal with Noir and other Ghost types without
needing Scrappy. This makes Ghosts no longer immune to Booming, meaning they might have just taken both their own pokes with them.

Does it really work? Coz i thought only the pokemon using it can attack the ghost in the next turn.

You did forget Fake out very common.

Tailwind- only works for 3 rounds

Rhys29
20th December 2008, 10:25 AM
3. Foresight/Odor Sleuth
))) Looks like a useless move, but is another excellent conter to Explosion strategies. Either the opponent is going to double Boom, Protect one guy, or
use a Ghost type. This removes their ability to nullify Fighting and Normal damage. This is a great way to deal with Noir and other Ghost types without
needing Scrappy. This makes Ghosts no longer immune to Booming, meaning they might have just taken both their own pokes with them.

Does it really work? Coz i thought only the pokemon using it can attack the ghost in the next turn.

You did forget Fake out very common.

Tailwind- only works for 3 rounds

I fixed Tailwind. I was saying little known moves... Fake Out is very common.

Yes, Foresight and Odor Slueth not only knock out Ghost's immunities, it also prevents them from increasing their evasion and sets it back down to zero (except for Items and Abilities, sorry no shutting off Frosslass with 30% evasion).

Arande
20th December 2008, 3:31 PM
Light screen/reflect don't raise stats, they reduce damage from their respective attacks by a flat &#37;. Also, light clay doubles the duration to 10 turns (same applies to the weather rocks) Come to think of it, gravity and TR are the only "5 turn effect" that can't be extended with an item.

Swagger increases attack 2 stages, not speed :) flatter being its Sp att counterpart

Smeargle can learn transform

groundonman
20th December 2008, 3:33 PM
well usually i use a weak pokemon followed by a very strong pokemon for exp
but i gang up