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Shrine Sprite
23rd November 2009, 12:01 AM
When I started posting on this board a week or so ago, I referred to this board to answer my questions, and something... peculiar came up. For some reason, I think consensus has it that one's Rescue Team Pokémon should not be evolved until your level it up to the maximum possible, as Pokémon gain more stats in their pre-evolved forms.

Well, now that I have the Official Pokémon MD Sky strategy guide, and have read through it and understand it a bit, I'd like to announce that, according to the guide, such is not necessarily the case.

Many [I'd wager about 40-70%] evolved Pokémon gain the exact same stats upon leveling as their predecessor forms.
Other evolved Pokémon's stats deviate slightly from their evolved forms [same gain mores stats when evolved; some gain less!]. However, in this case the stat deviations are extremely minor, usually only by 1-5 points.

I'll cite examples to show what I mean, taken straight from the guide. The Charmander evolution line is one whose stat gains don't change at all in evolution.

Pokémon - Level: Hp/Att./Def./SpAtt./Sp.Def/

Charmander - 50: 128/73/69/80/68
Charmeleon - 50: 128/73/69/80/68
Charizard - 50: 128/73/69/80/68
-
Charmander - 100: 178/123/119/130/118
Charmeleon - 100: 178/123/119/130/118
Charizard - 100: 178/123/119/130/118

The Dratini evolution line is different. Note the changes:

Dratini - 50: 113/58/53/60/51
Dragonair - 50: 121/57/53/59/49
Dragonite - 50: 133/57/60/58/56
-
Dratini - 100: 172/109/102/109/102
Dragonair - 100: 180/108/102/108/100
Dragonite - 100: 192/108/109/107/107

As you can see, Dragonite's stats a clearly overall superior, but the stat gains between Dratini and Dragonair aren't as clear-cut [Dragonair gets a lower Attack and Special Defense stat, is better in HP and Special Attack, and has the exact same Defense stat].

Someone posted a link to a site where they'd calculated these for each Pokémon, but it may very well be outdated, and even if it's not, I think it should be up for more discussion. The guide may very well contain errors, so I'd like to hear more input and information on this.

BlueMew7
23rd November 2009, 1:24 AM
I'm glad you brought this up because there are still people who are very confused about this. The HP base stats are way off. When you evolve your pokemon, their HP is increased by 10. It's like that for every pokemon. Now it's true that some pokemon like charmander, charmeleon, and charizard all keep the same stats minus the HP stat. However, with other pokemon like Dratini, Dragonair and Dragonite, their stats are all wrong. There is not a single pokemon in mystery dungeon who's stats go down upon leveling. The only exception would be the evolution from shelgon to Salamence, in which that case, Salamence's defense goes down.

Now I don't have the guide book for this, nor have I ever bought a guide book for any Mystery Dungeon game, but I have owned almost every pokemon there is to get in PMDT(Explorers of Time), starting from their lowest forms, to being evolved until they cannot evolve anymore.

I hope that helps at least a little bit.

Shrine Sprite
23rd November 2009, 1:50 AM
When you evolve your pokemon, their HP is increased by 10.Never heard of this! Checking to verify...

Yep. True. Caterpie had 27 HP... newly evolved Metapod has 37.

HOWEVER, there's the factor of starting off with recruiting an evolved Pokémon. The strategy guide may not be taking this factor into account [they may have determined Dragonite's stats as if the Dragonite were recruited at level 1].

This is very interesting, though! I didn't know that.


However, with other pokemon like Dratini, Dragonair and Dragonite, their stats are all wrong. There is not a single pokemon in mystery dungeon who's stats go down upon leveling.The stats wouldn't have to go down in order to make this true. These statistics I posted aren't ones that are going to occur as soon as you evolve the Pokémon. They take into account how much the stats will go up upon leveling up.

The stat deviation of Special Attack from Dragonair to Dragonite stems from, perhaps [and this isn't actually fact, just a theoretical example], from at Level 34, a Dragonair will gain 2 Special Attack and Dragonite 1 Special Attack, and then their Special Attack gains from leveling would be the exact same henceforth.

What doesn't happen is [and I think this is where some people may be confused?], when you evolve Dragonair to Dragonite, that Special Attack goes down 1 level.

[Sorry if I somehow misinterpreted what you said]


I hope that helps at least a little bit.It does! Thanks.

BlueMew7
23rd November 2009, 1:56 AM
So this is what I am understanding: If Dragonair were to get to lv. 100 without evolving, it's sp. atk. would be 108, however, if it were to evolve before reaching lv. 100, it's sp atk. would not be decreased, but it won't go as high as a lv. 100 dragonair when comparing to a lv. 100 dragonite. I might not have explained that in enough detail, but I basically get it.

EDIT: Basically, even though pokemon in PMD have a fixed stat sum, there is not a single pokemon in PMD that is just like any other pokemon. What I mean by this is that a pokemon's final stats (by final I mean when it reaches lv. 100) are determined by what level they evolve at, because they will gain different amount of stat points with their new evolution if they evolve at lv. X. If the pokemon did not evolve at lv. X, then the stats would still be in the same flow (by flow I mean the stats will progress as the guide book says[which would be in the case of the pokemon being at lv. 1) since it has not evolved. If that's confusing, than this might help you a little bit more:

;001; + level up(i.e. lv. 35) = 1/1/1/1/1
;001; + evolution = ;002; + level up(i.e. lv. 35) = 1/2/2/0/1

Shrine Sprite
23rd November 2009, 2:04 AM
So this is what I am understanding: If Dragonair were to get to lv. 100 without evolving, it's sp. atk. would be 108, however, if it were to evolve before reaching lv. 100, it's sp atk. would not be decreased, but it won't go as high as a lv. 100 dragonair when comparing to a lv. 100 dragonite. I might not have explained that in enough detail, but I basically get it.Right. I'm pretty sure that's the case, but I haven't actually done the testing to prove it.


EDIT: Basically, even though pokemon in PMD have a fixed stat sum, there is not a single pokemon in PMD that is just like any other pokemon. What I mean by this is that a pokemon's final stats (by final I mean when it reaches lv. 100) are determined by what level they evolve at, because they will gain different amount of stat points with their new evolution if they evolve at lv. X. If the pokemon did not evolve at lv. X, then the stats would still be in the same flow (by flow I mean the stats will progress as the guide book says[which would be in the case of the pokemon being at lv. 1) since it has not evolved.Mhm! Though, in the end, the stats won't deviate significantly enough to really warrant planning evolution times [at least for me]. The medicine drinks are really a blessing in this game... prevents players from being confined to the strict pre-planned stat gains.

shatteredrose
24th November 2009, 8:28 AM
I definitely I agree with this thread. I also have the guide book and can verify everything said.

@Shrine Sprite

How do you use the medicine drinks to ensure the fullest potential of a pokemon's stats? Can these drinks be used once a pokemon reaches level 100? I haven't played around with the drinks too much.

Rakurai
24th November 2009, 9:46 AM
I definitely I agree with this thread. I also have the guide book and can verify everything said.

@Shrine Sprite

How do you use the medicine drinks to ensure the fullest potential of a pokemon's stats? Can these drinks be used once a pokemon reaches level 100? I haven't played around with the drinks too much.

There isn't any trick to it like there is in the main games. You can just use stat raising items and/or the juice bar until a Pokemon's stats are completely maxed out at 999 HP and 255 in everything else.

Shrine Sprite
24th November 2009, 9:50 PM
What Rakurai said is true, shatteredrose. As far as I can tell, there's no limitation is the medicines you can consume. I usually wait until I collect a lot [1-2 pages full of them in storage], and then disperse them throughout my team at once [I like seeing a huge stat boost at one time, rather than a gradual increase, for whatever reason], but it doesn't explicitly matter how you use them.

I'm pretty sure that drinking the medicine at the Spinda Juice Bar will raise the stat by 3, but I think that that same holds true regardless of how, or where, you eat them.

xdragonx
24th November 2009, 11:59 PM
Ahh! Thank you so much, Shrine Sprite, for bringing this up! I've seen a lot of confusion going around regarding the topic of stat gains and evolution in the Mystery Dungeon games.

Also, I approve of and agree completely with this thread. I've got a Guide as well, and Shrine Sprite is correct. For most Pokemon, the stat gains remain the same; for the Pokemon whose evolutionary forms either benefit or suffer from stat gains when they level up, the change is mostly very minor.

As for the vitamins...
Yes, consuming them at Spinda's Cafe by having Spinda make a beverage increases the specific stat permanently by 3 points.
And as far as I know, there is no limit to the number of vitamins that can be consumed by one Pokemon (until, obviously, you have maxed out a particular stat.) At level 100, you can still consume vitamins to boost your stats. All 4 main team members in my Sky and Darkness versions are level 100, and all of them can still boost their stats by consuming a vitamin.

BlueMew7
25th November 2009, 12:04 AM
True, it's a minor change, but I was just saying that there is no such thing as a fixed stat sum. I'm sure we can agree on that. (By fixed stat sum, I mean that the stats are always the same at lv. 100 for X pokemon)

mAdkip
27th November 2009, 1:16 PM
I also agree that this issue is very important, because everything is SO different in the PMD series, than the normal game! The most chracteristic example is that of Shuckle, which is actually a sweeper (OMG!!) in PMD!! Its Def/ sp.def. are lower than its attack stats!

Also, i had noted that in PMD1, upon evolving, the pokemon didn't gain any exta stats! lyckily this changed in PMD2 games, but still it's kinda confusing! and it is very bad that stas remain the same when pokemon evolve, because e.g. an Azumarill will have extremely low stats due to Azurill!! same goes for Togekiss, Beautifly etc! Its kinda annoying actually!

Oh, and about this guides you mentioned. Where can you find it? is there also any site on the internet?

Shiny Mew2
27th November 2009, 9:36 PM
i just have a tip. use gummi cafe drinks. bost IQ and a stat. i ashould test this. the stat change

xdragonx
27th November 2009, 10:00 PM
@ mAdkip:

Ahh, yes! In PMD1, I think you're right--Pokemon didn't gain or lose stats when they evolved.

Guides for the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games should be found at videogame stores, plus sites like Amazon, eBay, and Barnes and Noble. (I've just checked all three and guides for PMD1, 2 and 3 are listed.)

@ Shiny Mew2:
(= Yep, using Gummis at Spinda's Cafe can give you stat boosts. Sometimes, you can receive a +1 boost on one stat, and then a 2-5 bonus boost on another! Using this technique, you can boost the stats of your Pokemon even after their final evolution and after they've reached level 100. As it has been said here before, the maximum is 999 for HP and 255 for everything else.

BlueMew7
27th November 2009, 10:12 PM
haha! I actually got my Empoleon 255 Sp. atk.

xdragonx
27th November 2009, 10:17 PM
haha! I actually got my Empoleon 255 Sp. atk.

Goodness! That's something to be proud of! I'm currently trying to get my Espeon to reach 255 in Sp. Atk! At the moment, I think I'm lagging seriously behind you at something around 217.
I was planning to maximize my Espeon's Sp. Atk. and Luxray's Atk. stats... then work on the rest of my team. ^^;

Tiomasta
27th November 2009, 10:23 PM
Is this really important? Apparently, there is absolutely no limit to stat boosters, you can just use them to "fix" stats, even max them all out, regardless of how and when you evolved it and everything. So pretty much every poke can get max stats, no but or except.

Hm... Bronzong with Levitate, Heatproof, 999 HP and 255 Def and Sp.Def...

Shrine Sprite
28th November 2009, 6:52 AM
It's important because there were many misconceptions and false rumors on the subject that needed to be cleared.

mAdkip
28th November 2009, 12:32 PM
[B][U]@ Shiny Mew2:
(= Yep, using Gummis at Spinda's Cafe can give you stat boosts. Sometimes, you can receive a +1 boost on one stat, and then a 2-5 bonus boost on another! Using this technique, you can boost the stats of your Pokemon even after their final evolution and after they've reached level 100. As it has been said here before, the maximum is 999 for HP and 255 for everything else.

Can you do that also on Time and Darkness??

snorlax9
28th November 2009, 1:49 PM
what happens if eevee evolves on explorers of the sky???

xdragonx
28th November 2009, 4:18 PM
Can you do that also on Time and Darkness??

Sadly, no. Spinda's Cafe is not present in Explorers of Time and Darkness. It was added as a new bonus feature in Sky. Still, eating a Gummi inside a dungeon sometimes might boost a Pokemon's stats.


what happens if eevee evolves on explorers of the sky???

=? Nothing much..? Other than the fact that it has evolved into a different Pokemon, thus it can learn different attacks, and loses its abilities Adaptability and Runaway in exchange for the ability possessed by whichever evolutionary form you choose.
It should be noted however, that all of Eevee's evolutions have slightly lower stats at level 1 than Eevee itself. So this could play a small part in stat gains via level up.
However, stats can be easily remedied in Sky by using Gummis at Spinda's Drink Stand and turning them into drinks for your Pokemon--you can regain possible lost stat points this way.