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sgtspontaneous
12th March 2010, 8:22 AM
2-2 Giratina Lv X
3-1-2-2 Dusknoir X
3 Crobat G
2-2 Gallade 4 Lv X
2-2 Claydol
23 Pokemon (12 Basic)

4 PokeBlower+
4 Bebe's Search
4 Roseanne's Research
2 Rare Candy
2 Premier Ball
1 Level Max
2 Expert Belt
2 Cyrus's Consipracy
2 Moonlight Stadium
2 TGI G-105 Poke Turn
25 Trainers

12 Psychic Energy

Lots of basic stuff in here, Giratina and Gallade as my main attackers, but Dusknoir's also offensive. This is meant to be a spread deck, with blowers, Crobat G, Gallade, Gir X, and of course Ectoplasm.

Does anyone have any input as to which Giratinas and Dusknoirs work best with their X's? If spirit pulse, I'm considering a few DCE, perhaps fisherman.

ven?
12th March 2010, 11:14 AM
this giratina (http://www.serebii.net/card/platinum/28.jpg) maybe, for having dragonbreath (which is a useful attack either way). for your deck, plus power. my reason is you can either deal 60 with a plus power and expert belt using giratina lv.x, or crobat G, expert belt, plus power for 40 then poke turn back to your hand then play that same plus power on giratina Lv. X for 40 or 60, or 90-110 with dragonbreath. i'm just thinking heavier dmg could be a bonus.

these are idea's using 1 plus power not 4, so that could be a mean 90 dmg snipe with giratina lv.X. also DCE, it'll turn a few of those t3 atk's into t2.

sgtspontaneous
12th March 2010, 10:37 PM
Dragonbreath Giratina is the worst! The coin flip gives an average of 40 damage per turn, with paralysis every other turn, plus the attack is overpriced on the average.

Here's my thoughts on Giratina:
LA#4 - "Agility", but with 20 to the bench, and 50 damage plus more for each counter on opponent, ok in a spread deck.

PT#28 - The only thing that makes this Giratina better is 10 more HP and one less retreat cost, and a better weakness. If I fight a dark type, he's KO'ed anyway. 2 RC is too much to not switch with anyway.

PT#27 - Strafe and Broken Space blow are decent, but this doesn't really compliment the basic idea of the deck of spread.

PT#10 - Probably the one to go with, Overslash starts with damage spread on T2, if not T1 with DCE back in play, and Wrack Down, 60 for 3 (2 with DCE) is decent, especially with Expert Belt.

PT#9 - Good power, but takes too long to set up with no 2 energy attack, not even DCE can speed it up, although it can attack the bench in addition to 60.

So probably Overslash Giratina would work best, and for Dusknoirs:
God, these guys are so hard because all of them work well in different ways.

DP#2 - Dark Palm can remove your opponent's main attacker, or their Claydol. Hard Feelings places at least 6 damage counters on the defending pokemon, provided the absence of Unown G.

SF#1 - I love this card, whether it's the best or not is tough to say, Shadow Command plus Claydol is insane, with a potential 8 cards out of nowhere (granted you must discard if 7 or more cards, but you can dig a lot). You damage yourself, rather, you place damage counters on yourself, which gets you more damage on Damage Even, which is one of the best sniping attacks in the game. This doesn't hit Unown G'd pokemon, but still excellent. Night Spin is costly, and probably almost never used, but it could come in handy if the defending pokemon doesn't have any energy attached.

SF#17 - Spirit Pulse is part of the basis of this spread deck, but it only works on pokemon with energy attached, it'll never hit Claydol, or any other pokemon without energy, but still very nice. It's also between turns. Darkness Mist is 60, plus 20 if the opponent already has 20 damage, for 3 energy, pretty nice, add Expert belt, there's 100 damage.

DPPromo#33 - Dark Hide is major Disruption, coin flip every turn (and stackable), looking at your opponents hand, then taking ANY pokemon and putting it on the bottom of their deck, prevents that stage 2 or level x getting out there. Reaper Pulse doesn't benefit from DCE, but it does do 70 damage, and moves 2 damage counters from Dusknoir to an opponent, great in a spread deck.

Ectoplasm - If Dusknoir is your Active Pokemon and would be Knocked Out by damage from your opponent's attack, you may discard all cards attached to Dusknoir Lv.X and put Dusknoir Lv.X as a Stadium card into play instead of discarding it.

This power is pretty specific, which makes it not broken. Unown G prevents stupid reasons to KO him, but he must be active, and he must be KO'd by damage, not damage counters, nor poison, burn, or Shadow Command, so we need to keep that in mind when choosing.

So which one is best?

Probably not DP, because of Unown G's power, and it doesn't spread. If an opponent sees it coming, they'll keep their bench small with one active, a claydol, and 2 main backups, no worries on the power.

SF 1 is probably the MOST helpful (but barely) with drawing power and Damage Even, and getting you closer to Ectoplasm.

SF 17 Spreads damage to all energy'd pokemon, so it's viable

Promo is disruptive, but opponents can get around the loss of their pokemon with bebe's search. Reaper Pulse is anti-ectoplasm, although before Dusk X, it was probably one of the best.

What say you? (Whew...long post)

Nidoprince
13th March 2010, 12:06 AM
Hrm...for Giratina, I say the LA one is pretty nice. It's actually quicker than other Giratinas (Most need 3 for their first attack, except DB Giratina, but it's horrible. Trust me, there are other DB Pokemon, and they always get owned.), and it's second attack is actually decent and good to use after Giratina X's attack. For the second Giratina, I'd use the Let Loose one. It not only disrupts your opponent, but if you have a bulky hand and a slim deck, the Let Loose will help. Besides, why use Dark Wing Flaps on that Pt. Giratina if you can use Earth Power on Let Loose Giratina?

I use the Promo Dusknoir, because that's all I have, except for the Darkness Mist one. Personally, if your strategy is to spread damage, Darkness Mist Noir is useful, but so is Promo. Now Dark Palm one is often used and is very good as well as the Shadow Command. I think all the Dusknoir are good, nothing will disrupt the play. I can't really say, I have only used the Promo Dusknoir. All I have to say about it is that it has healing powers with Reaper Pulse, and can easily make 2 KOs. Especially if you warm it up with Giratina X, or the other way around.

ven?
13th March 2010, 3:10 PM
Dragonbreath Giratina is the worst! The coin flip gives an average of 40 damage per turn, with paralysis every other turn, plus the attack is overpriced on the average

off hand one of the best one on one giratina's, deal's 30 on your fist turn if you have dce in your hand, then either 80 or paralyze, and paralyze completely stop's your opponent's Pokemon for a turn which is awesome or nuke them for 80. I am thinking of doing the fastest dmg because if you give you're opponent an extra turn for setup then it just screw's you over in the end.

i do agree with the LA giratina but it's not a fast enough card to play, t2 20 dmg, or t3-t4 for 50 + 10 more for each dmg counter, by the time that card is setup your opponent will have either used blissey prime and healed there pokemon or an ssu and send out a heavy hitter to deal with giratina.

i'm thinking, hit fast, hit hard, and screw up your opponent's everything (which giratina can do all but the fast part). not tryin to be mean or anything, it could be me and being geared up for regionals (even though it's about a month away).

Lucario_X_Froslass
13th March 2010, 6:39 PM
Fast damage doesn't rely on a coinflip. Unown [G] prevents the paralysis, which will kill 3 energy after the next KO ;F

Anyways, I think you have a bit too much stuff in your deck, and cutting back on some will prolly help the deck. Like not using Dusknoir. xP

Uxie would be needed, using a 3-1 Giratina with Premier Ball is nice, and IMO 3-1 Gallade is better than 2-2 if you have a lot more PokeTurns; 2-2 is fine otherwise. Use Bronzong G to move Energy to Giratina after using Gallade to attack for a bit so you can get the massive spread off.

IDK what trainers you have, but make them something like this:

Trainers:
4 Roseanne's Research
3 Bebe's Search
3 Cyrus's Conspiracy
(optional Miasma valley/Galactic HQ if you care)
1 Expert Belt
1 Luxury Ball
1 Premier Ball
2 energy Gain
4 PokeTurn
2 SP Radar
1 Night Maintenance

Any draw trainers you wanna add if you have room are fine.

The Energy should be:

6 Psychic
4 Call
3 DCE

I'm not entirely sure about all of this, but the advice would help somewhat.

~L_X_F

sgtspontaneous
13th March 2010, 9:43 PM
If I'm going with 3-1 Giratina and 3-1 Gallade, where is Azelf with Time Walk? Or even Azelf level X to remove my weaknesses, since almost everyone has double dark or psychic.

I read PokeBlower wrong, no wonder it's rarely used in competitive play, the 10 damage is based on a coin flip, and spread decks don't need gust of win. :P

Lets see, you're saying SP radar just because it's a trainer over a supporter, gotcha.

Can I really get away with only 6 psychic energy?

EDIT:
By the way, I've posted and revised on Pojo, here's where I'm at now:

2-2 Giratina Lv X
3-1-2-2 Dusknoir X
3 Crobat G
2-2 Gallade 4 Lv X
2-2 Claydol
23 Pokemon (12 Basic)

4 Bebe's Search
4 Roseanne's Research
3 Rare Candy
2 Premier Ball
1 Level Max
3 Cyrus's Consipracy
2 Moonlight Stadium
3 TGI G-105 Poke Turn
1 Miasma Valley
21 Trainers

12 Psychic Energy
3 Call Energy
15 Energy

ven?
14th March 2010, 1:19 PM
how is t1 dce 30 dmg a coin flip? still dce could make this deck faster. as a suggestion lose 2 rosseane's for an expert belt or bench sheild claydol take's no dmg forcing your opponent to attack dusknoir lv. X for it's ability or you deal and extra 20 dmg with gallade or giratina. you have enough energy to get an even draw and with call energy that thins your deck so it's easier to draw more energy.

Lucario_X_Froslass
14th March 2010, 5:48 PM
Good job for noticing that you need Azelf; don't complain about me not telling you... ;F Azelf Lv.X is fine, as it saves your PLOX (not really) and CURSEgar matchups. BTW, you only need 2 Crobat G, as you're gonna be using Gallade a lot more for damage. And use Unown [G].

If PokeBlower was that broken...wooow Staple card in every deck.

SP Radar also gives you a Pokemon with Cyrus's Conspiracy ^_^

Yes; you can. Just play smart and save and recover them.

You don't need the Dusknoir; focusing on Gallade and Giratina will actually make your deck better rather than having too many spread options. BTW, the stage 2 Lv.X won't work in a deck with a bunch of random basics doing speard better than it.

You still need 4 PokeTurns and 3-1 Gallade. you only need one Premier Ball with recovery. (like Night Maintenance) You don't need Level Max. You don't need 3 stadiums, and the ones you pick should be the same kind (Moonlight is better).

Meh; the trainers I put are pretty much what you should be focusing on with other stuff as extra. You can pick the rest. You can add to the Energy Gain if you really care, but the quantities are fine otherwise.

As for ven?, 30 damage T1 is worse than a coin flip. You need a DCE on the Giratina, and from there on out, you're flipping coins for bad damage. With Unown [G] being a good card, its extra effect will just randomly kick in. Switching, evolving, or leveling up removes the effect, so it's just not good in any way competitively. =\

~L_X_F

ven?
15th March 2010, 11:08 AM
As for ven?, 30 damage T1 is worse than a coin flip. You need a DCE on the Giratina, and from there on out, you're flipping coins for bad damage. With Unown [G] being a good card, its extra effect will just randomly kick in. Switching, evolving, or leveling up removes the effect, so it's just not good in any way competitively. =\

with this deck your not even hitting for t1 10 dmg. i'm not talking about unkown G ,which is a good tech card, i'm talking about dealing "fast dmg" which this deck lack's, out of all the giratina that one can, with enough dce that you can hopefully have both cards in your hand, and start hitting them for fast dmg forcing attack lines that your opponent can't build fast enough screwing up there chance's and winning you a game.

and saying that t1 30 is bad when most of the cards in this deck can't even pull off t2 20 dmg is just lame. all of the giratina cards can't hit for just 80 you need to hit for 80 as bare minimum for ko, even if you have 100 hp your just giving your opponent another turn to knock you out, even with gallade you have to rely on the dmg counter's that are on the opponent's pokemon, playing against decks like donphan, jumpluff or gyarados they can put in a blissey prime heal themselves completely and then 1 hit ko you with one energy, most of these cards have no psychic weakness and deal dmg off one energy. or energy kicking deck's, since this deck ask's for alot of energy for each card. so up against cards like ambipom that kick energy back into your hand or discard it then use tgw or a card similar then a few roseanne's (which your opponent wants you to do so you waste your roseanne's), even if you have 12 psychic energy they have lowered your draw rate and by the time you get them back to your hand your toast because you needed 2 energy minimum to attack.

you may disagree with me all you want but ask yourself is t1 30 dmg better then t1 no dmg?

Nidoprince
22nd March 2010, 5:37 PM
If you want DCE T1 damage, why not just do the Giratina with Overslash. Unlike D-Breath Giratina, it actually fits with the deck.

Lucario_X_Froslass
23rd March 2010, 2:07 AM
Yes; I'm saying fast damage is bad xD Fast knockouts, on the other hand, are good. Fast damage fails bacause you screw yourself over later.

Not much more on the deck...but Let Loose Giratina is getting to be a pretty nice card as it is searchable hand disruption ^_^

~L_X_F

ven?
23rd March 2010, 3:29 AM
Yes; I'm saying fast damage is bad xD Fast knockouts, on the other hand, are good. Fast damage fails bacause you screw yourself over later.

how? most of the current deck's that are on top right now in state's deal fast heavy consistent dmg. take my toxicroak deck for instance, fast consistent dmg, it has stopped numerous deck's from getting a successful setup or even deal good dmg. being competitive means you deal that fast heavy consistent dmg so that you can get more win's and win as top player, yes sometimes it's good to consider base force dmg over speed but even most base force dmg dealing deck's like feraligatr, giratina and the sort's can see an easy loss to fast heavy dmg dealer's like plox, gyarados, kingdra, donphan, and diachomp with a good uxie lv. x tech.

i'm not so sure that i totally agree with over slash giratina, but in a deck like this it does work.