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はるひ
14th June 2011, 7:23 PM
Erm...what's Milokaross o_0

http://www.japanvideogames.com/v/vspfiles/photos/POKEMON-4904810424673-2T.jpg

This <3~

As for Marktus, they are soo cute. I want to use one one day.

Grey Wind
14th June 2011, 7:31 PM
Oh, you mean Milotic.

As for Maractus, it's easy to forget it. It's quite cute, but hasn't really got anything going for it. I never actually seen anybody using it :S

Grei
14th June 2011, 7:38 PM
Basculin is available as early as Driftveil City.

That's the 5th Gym. That's pretty much the beginning of the late game.

Although... if you somehow get Surf onto a Pokemon (via trading), Pokemon like Basculin and Frillish are available as early as Pinwheel Forest (Basculin) and Route 4 (Frillish), both which can be reached without having obtained more than two badges. That's pretty early if you have Surf.

Otherwise, Basculin's somewhat late, and Frillish and Alomomola are even later, since you don't get Surf in-game until after the 6th Gym...


Seismitoad is ugly, and isn't that great anyway.

Honestly, Seismitoad isn't that bad. It's weird, because for a while after it becomes a Seismitoad, it's one of the best on your team. It's one of those Pokemon that are good in the middle of the late game, but by the Elite Four, the rest of your team will have grown enough to outclass it.

That being said, though, Seismitoad is good with Surf and Earth Power. Even better if you give it a Damp Rock and Rain Dance (if its ability is Swift Swim). Don't bother with Poison Touch, because that requires you to use a physical move that makes contact, and since Seismitoad's not exactly the best physical attacker, it's sort of pointless.

Swift Swim Seismitoad with Rain Dance boosts and Surf is pretty awesome, though. Not mind-blowingly awesome, but awesome nonetheless.


Use an Everstone? That's what I would do. I already have an Oshawott that I plan on using without evolving, so I may just give it an Everstone one of these days. Anyway, Oshawott and Jellicent are my only favorite Water-types in this generation. The others are fine in their own way, but I don't have any particular feelings for them. They're just there.

I do this with my Dewott. I'm not going to evolve it, and thankfully, it's Jolly and has "relatively superior" IVs, so I don't need to worry about it being craptastic as an unevolved Pokemon. With Eviolite, it hardly ever faints, much less in one hit.


Ive wanted to try a Basculin for some time. They are like beta fish which I like.

Don't bother. They suck horribly. They're good when the rest of your team is unevolved, but by the time you can get it in-game (without Surf), the rest of your team will be good enough to make up for anything Basculin would do.


http://www.japanvideogames.com/v/vspfiles/photos/POKEMON-4904810424673-2T.jpg

This <3~

As for Marktus, they are soo cute. I want to use one one day.

Why did you randomly start referring to Pokemon by different names? Are you intentionally trying to be confusing and random?

Universe Chaser
14th June 2011, 7:40 PM
Oh, you mean Milotic.

As for Maractus, it's easy to forget it. It's quite cute, but hasn't really got anything going for it. I never actually seen anybody using it :S

I love the design of just about all of the desert pokemon this gen, almost as much as I am disappointed with the water types. However, Maractus simply cannot find a niche over any other grass types; I used a Lilligant on my playthrough, who eventually replaced my Serperior after the...fifth gym, I believe.

Oh, and I could never make my Basculin any good, but it is always a ***** when I'm up against it in the Subway.

はるひ
14th June 2011, 7:44 PM
Why did you randomly start referring to Pokemon by different names? Are you intentionally trying to be confusing and random?

Nuu I just prefer Milotic's Japanese name to her English name.

Solfatara
14th June 2011, 7:54 PM
I agree with the desert pokemon being awesome. I believe I just picked up everything I found at route 4 the first time through, when I borrowed my friend's japanese white. Scrafty, Darmanitan, Krok, they all work well in-game, and both scrafty and darmanitan could do very well otherwise too. Ever tried going through the game with a DD-scraggy? It ridiculous. I really love the Dwebble-line too, it's adorable. Sigilyph is a bit of a clown though (design-wise at least), but I don't hate it.

manifesto
14th June 2011, 8:12 PM
I totally agree, the desert pokemon are some of the best in the game. 100%

Grei
14th June 2011, 8:12 PM
I agree with the desert pokemon being awesome. I believe I just picked up everything I found at route 4 the first time through, when I borrowed my friend's japanese white. Scrafty, Darmanitan, Krok, they all work well in-game, and both scrafty and darmanitan could do very well otherwise too. Ever tried going through the game with a DD-scraggy? It ridiculous. I really love the Dwebble-line too, it's adorable. Sigilyph is a bit of a clown though (design-wise at least), but I don't hate it.

Sigilyph > Swoobat, and is a pretty nice Sp. Attacker from what I hear.

The only desert Pokemon that is less-than-great is Maractus. It's good for... absorbing water. Great. A good partner for a Fire-type in a double battle, but otherwise, there are MUCH better Grass-types. Lilligant, Leavanny, Whimsicott, Serperior...

jmdavid12
14th June 2011, 8:14 PM
I HATE Maractus!!!!!!!!

jmdavid12
14th June 2011, 8:16 PM
Honestly, my favorites this gen are Krokorok, Serperior, Dewott, Sawsbuck, and Haxorus.

Rubicante
14th June 2011, 8:21 PM
Sigilyph > Swoobat, and is a pretty nice Sp. Attacker from what I hear.

The only desert Pokemon that is less-than-great is Maractus. It's good for... absorbing water. Great. A good partner for a Fire-type in a double battle, but otherwise, there are MUCH better Grass-types. Lilligant, Leavanny, Whimsicott, Serperior...

Swoobat's BST is so awful. I feel so bad for people who use him. I think he might just be one of the weakest Unova Pokémon. I wouldn't mind him getting an evolution one day, that's for sure. Speaking of Grass types, people undersell regular Serperior. I usually run one with Leech Seed, Coil, Leaf Blade and Dragon Tail, and it does fine.

はるひ
14th June 2011, 8:28 PM
I wanted to try both Markutus and Amooguss but never got around to it. Also I wanted to do Swoobat as well.

Mangoes
14th June 2011, 8:42 PM
I HATE Maractus!!!!!!!!

I love their design and their shiney form is one of best I think but they are kinda weak. :(

Pyrax
14th June 2011, 9:03 PM
Has anyone here used Alomomola?

Dattebayo
14th June 2011, 9:14 PM
The only desert Pokemon that is less-than-great is Maractus. It's good for... absorbing water. Great. A good partner for a Fire-type in a double battle, but otherwise, there are MUCH better Grass-types. Lilligant, Leavanny, Whimsicott, Serperior.. Ferrothorn

Fix'd

I don't use Alomomola for it doesn't hit hard enough, and it's too slow.

Kisekisan
14th June 2011, 9:25 PM
I love their design and their shiney form is one of best I think but they are kinda weak. :(

And I personally can't help but think they're just a cheaper version of Cacturne.

Grey Wind
14th June 2011, 9:48 PM
Has anyone here used Alomomola?
Nope, and I probably never will. It's just a big Luvdisc, with freaky arm..things. I mean look at them! All floppy... Anyway I don't really like it and its movepoop isn't great.

Solfatara
14th June 2011, 9:57 PM
Alomomola has one thing going for it though: extreme physical bulk. I can see it filling some niche in some way, but well... I guess there is a reason it's not very popular, it doesn't have the speed, the movepool, or the power.
As for Maractus; I would not use it, but I see no reason to HATE it, as some people express it. Why hate an underwhelming pokémon? I would probably love to try it in a nuzlocke challenge, or some other challenge.

The Oncoming Storm
15th June 2011, 12:56 AM
Ive used carracosta, samurott, and jellicent. I liked all of em. I dont like grass types but imight try whimsy or lily

Mister_SGG
15th June 2011, 12:58 AM
Ive used carracosta, samurott, and jellicent. I liked all of em. I dont like grass types but imight try whimsy or lily

What about Sawsbuck? He's the best Fifth Gen Grass-type.

Rubicante
15th June 2011, 1:01 AM
Everybody should try Ferrothorn someday. He's quite possibly the best Grass type.

Typhlosionvsworld
15th June 2011, 1:01 AM
I still don't see why he (Sawsbuck) had to be a normal type too. More weaknesses adds bother.

Silent Conversation
15th June 2011, 1:01 AM
What about Sawsbuck? He's the best Fifth Gen Grass-type.

I've heard a lot better about Lilligant (although I've personally never used Lilligant or Sawsbuck, so I'm not the best judge here. Just going by what I've heard).

Alexander18
15th June 2011, 1:03 AM
I quite like Kyurem, since its part ice ,it can beat other dragons such as Dragonite.

Typhlosionvsworld
15th June 2011, 1:04 AM
Kyurem is very Powerful, with good stats all around.

SasakiThePikachu
15th June 2011, 1:04 AM
I was going to use Maractus, but its limited movepool put me off. And Alomomola was one of the first water types on my list, but then I saw its stats. And I cried.

I recommend Whimsicott if you want nice type coverage and a super-fast annoyer (leech seed, and giga drain with big root can be a pain!), but she's frail as hell, so don't expect her to stick around for long. I'm hoping Lilygant is sturdier when I raise her in White.

Universe Chaser
15th June 2011, 1:06 AM
I've heard a lot better about Lilligant (although I've personally never used Lilligant or Sawsbuck, so I'm not the best judge here. Just going by what I've heard).

I've used most of the grass types this gen. Not a huge fan of Sawsbuck, but he's pretty solid. For me, Lilligant was ridiculously good during the playthrough, while Ferro and Whimsicott are incredible competitively.

Typhlosionvsworld
15th June 2011, 1:09 AM
I'm looking for a Pokemon to tie off my White Team, as I beat the game already and messed around with my team a bit.

Samurott, Simisear, Haxorus, Braviary, and Zebstrika are my Pokemon. So what should I add?

I'm not a fifth generation master. What Pokemon would finish off this team?

Mister_SGG
15th June 2011, 1:11 AM
I'm looking for a Pokemon to tie off my White Team, as I beat the game already and messed around with my team a bit.

Samurott, Simisear, Haxorus, Braviary, and Zebstrika are my Pokemon. So what should i add?

Kind of the wrong thread, but you should get a Chandelure.

Silent Conversation
15th June 2011, 1:12 AM
I'm looking for a Pokemon to tie off my White Team, as I beat the game already and messed around with my team a bit.

Samurott, Simisear, Haxorus, Braviary, and Zebstrika are my Pokemon. So what should I add?

I'm not a fifth generation master. What Pokemon would finish off this team?

I would go with Scrafty. Dark and fighting are two great types that aren't on your team, and Scrafty gives you both of them.

Typhlosionvsworld
15th June 2011, 1:14 AM
Alright, I try out those Pokemon.

Anyway, how is Simisage? I never used it before.

The Oncoming Storm
15th June 2011, 1:15 AM
Meh energy ball on reuniclus does the grass job fine.

Silent Conversation
15th June 2011, 1:15 AM
Alright, I try out those Pokemon.

Anyway, how is Simisage? I never used it before.

It's okay if you want a simple grass type, but I say that if you really want a grass Pokemon, then Sawsbuck, Whimsicott, Lilligant, Leavanny and Ferrothorn all outclass it.

Gloryus
15th June 2011, 1:16 AM
Grass types have upgraded in 5th gen, Whimsicott, Lilligant are good pokes. As for Ferrothorn, at least in competitive play turns from solid to a nightmare if Magnet Pull Magnezone is around. They're getting more common these days

Mister_SGG
15th June 2011, 1:17 AM
Alright, I try out those Pokemon.

Anyway, how is Simisage? I never used it before.

Imo, Simisage is classified as the only usable monkey, but I suppose there are better Grass-types, such as Sawsbuck or Whimsicott.

Typhlosionvsworld
15th June 2011, 1:19 AM
Imo, Simisage is classified as the only usable monkey, but I suppose there are better Grass-types, such as Sawsbuck or Whimsicott.

I like Simisear, it is a reliable Pokemon. But Simipour...why the heck does it have a dress????

Dattebayo
15th June 2011, 1:23 AM
Whoever says Lilligant is a decent grass type is sadly mistaken due to the severe lack of type coverage, just like Serperior. It can't abuse Quiver Dance if it can't counter any type other than the unreliable HP.

Typholosionvsworld, go with Ferrothron for you're missing a grass type in your team.

Typhlosionvsworld
15th June 2011, 1:25 AM
I think Stoutland's cry is so uncreative. Its just a dog snarling and barking.

Alright, I'll use Ferrothorn.

Mister_SGG
15th June 2011, 1:25 AM
I think Stoutland's cry is so uncreative. Its just a dog snarling and barking.

Alright, I'll use Ferrothorn.

I like it. It sounds cool imo.

Typhlosionvsworld
15th June 2011, 1:28 AM
Didn't say it was bad, I said it is uncreative.

Mister_SGG
15th June 2011, 1:58 AM
Didn't say it was bad, I said it is uncreative.

Well, I didn't say that you said it was bad.

Typhlosionvsworld
15th June 2011, 2:02 AM
Whatever. I like Excadrill, its a good pokemon.

Adrexus
15th June 2011, 2:04 AM
How is Stoutland's cry uncreative. Its a dog for Pete's sake, of course its supposed to sound like that. I couldn't think of a more fitting cry for such a pokemon, especially as its appearance suits it quite well. Although I do like Herdier's cry better. That wuff sound always warms my heart.

Mister_SGG
15th June 2011, 2:04 AM
Sand Rush + 135 Base Attack + Okay bulk = Beast.

Typhlosionvsworld
15th June 2011, 2:06 AM
What does Sand Rush do anyway?

Mister_SGG
15th June 2011, 2:06 AM
What does Sand Rush do anyway?

Speed is doubled in a sandstorm. He works well with TTar. And the special defense boost makes Excadrill bulkier.

Adrexus
15th June 2011, 2:09 AM
I haven't gotten to try out Excadrill yet. I understand that its one of the most formidable pokemon around these days.

I'm finding that Ferroseed is possibly the best pokemon in the game. As soon as I set up leech seed, its game over. Rocky helmet works wonders with iron barbs. I was battling a Trubbish that used doubleslap and it died just from the residual damage. No wonder Ferrothorn is the most overused pokemon this gen. Well, I guess number two statistically.

Dattebayo
15th June 2011, 2:10 AM
How is Stoutland's cry uncreative. Its a dog for Pete's sake, of course its supposed to sound like that. I couldn't think of a more fitting cry for such a pokemon, especially as its appearance suits it quite well. Although I do like Herdier's cry better. That wuff sound always warms my heart.

Well they find the fact that each Pokemon's cry not related to their real-life counterpart's makes them more unique than just generic rl animal cries. For example: Luxray's cry is more appealing than a generic lion cry because it's suppose to take place in a fictional world.

King Lawliet
15th June 2011, 2:10 AM
What about Sawsbuck? He's the best Fifth Gen Grass-type.Ferrothorn flat out disagrees with you

Typhlosionvsworld
15th June 2011, 2:11 AM
I haven't gotten to try out Excadrill yet. I understand that its one of the most formidable pokemon around these days.

I'm finding that Ferroseed is possibly the best pokemon in the game. As soon as I set up leech seed, its game over. Rocky helmet works wonders with iron barbs. I was battling a Trubbish that used doubleslap and it died just from the residual damage. No wonder Ferrothorn is the most overused pokemon this gen. Well, I guess number two statistically.

I'm DEFINATELY going to use Ferrothorn now. Its pre evolution can be a real pain.

Mister_SGG
15th June 2011, 2:12 AM
No wonder Ferrothorn is the most overused pokemon this gen. Well, I guess number two statistically.

Who's number one?

Typhlosionvsworld
15th June 2011, 2:13 AM
Who's number one?

Ferrsoseed, as you have to have it first.

Mister_SGG
15th June 2011, 2:15 AM
Ferrsoseed, as you have to have it first.

Pfft, duh. Why didn't I know that? I'm out of the loop.

The Oncoming Storm
15th June 2011, 2:15 AM
Typhlosionworld dont pick ferrothorn. It okay ingame but its only really bad arse competitively. Use whimsicott or sawsbuck.

Also the number one pokemon used is not ferroseed. Thats ridiculous.

はるひ
15th June 2011, 2:18 AM
Ferroseed is adorable but I don't like Ferrothorn. Plus is had so many weaknesses.

Mister_SGG
15th June 2011, 2:19 AM
Ferroseed is adorable but I don't like Ferrothorn. Plus is had so many weaknesses.

But it has way more resistances!

Typhlosionvsworld
15th June 2011, 2:23 AM
Typhlosionworld dont pick ferrothorn. It okay ingame but its only really bad arse competitively. Use whimsicott or sawsbuck.

Also the number one pokemon used is not ferroseed. Thats ridiculous.

I don't like competitive battling. Plus, Whimiscott won't survive any attacks.

The Oncoming Storm
15th June 2011, 2:26 AM
Then you dont want ferrothorn its only really good competitively. Get cottonee and dont evolve it till 34. at 34 it learns cotton gaurd which +3 your def. And it always go first. Datte is a competitive battling nut so thats why he suggests it. Ingame you need strait power.

Silent Conversation
15th June 2011, 2:45 AM
I think Stoutland's cry is so uncreative. Its just a dog snarling and barking.

It's not Stoutland's cry that's uncreative (to you) then, it's Stoutland's actual design. Its cry is a dog snarling and barking because it is a snarling and barking dog. You can't say it's uncreative when it's the only logical cry they could give.

Typhlosionvsworld
15th June 2011, 2:47 AM
Then you dont want ferrothorn its only really good competitively. Get cottonee and dont evolve it till 34. at 34 it learns cotton gaurd which +3 your def. And it always go first. Datte is a competitive battling nut so thats why he suggests it. Ingame you need strait power.

I have white, so I can't really get Cottonee.

Adrexus
15th June 2011, 2:53 AM
Who's number one?

Right now on pokemon online Tyranitar is the most overused pokemon. However Ferrothorn was the most overused pokemon prior to May. This only speaking statistically of course

Cassiopeia
15th June 2011, 2:53 AM
I have white, so I can't really get Cottonee.

Trade in Nacrene (too bad its modest >.<. Black players get a modest Lilligant. And it supposedly has high IV's)

The Oncoming Storm
15th June 2011, 2:59 AM
Yeah and the modest one is good. Run cotton gaurd, leech seed, status move, and either giga drain or energy ball.

Typhlosionvsworld
15th June 2011, 3:00 AM
Trade in Nacrene (too bad its modest >.<. Black players get a modest Lilligant. And it supposedly has high IV's)

Wait, but what's wrong with a Modest Cottonee?

Dattebayo
15th June 2011, 3:01 AM
Ferroseed is adorable but I don't like Ferrothorn. Plus is had so many weaknesses.

It only has two weaknesses.

I still recommend Ferrothorn in-game. Volt Trainer is a non-competitive nut.

XXD17
15th June 2011, 3:11 AM
Wait, but what's wrong with a Modest Cottonee?

I don't think anyone meant for modest to be bad but rather as not the best...since whimsicott is most commonly used as a sub-seeder in competitive battling, people tend to prefer a nature that ups one of its defenses while reducing attack, Sp attack, or speed(due to prankster)...I personally really like the modest one...I run one with cotton guard, leech seed, hurricane and giga drain maxed in Sp defense and defense...it's pretty bulky once it gets the seeds and cotton guard up...

The Oncoming Storm
15th June 2011, 3:15 AM
It only has two weaknesses.

I still recommend Ferrothorn in-game. Volt Trainer is a non-competitive nut.


The guy ur giving advice to is also a non competitive player. And i am currently building a competitive team.

Mijuwott
15th June 2011, 3:16 AM
I say Bold or Timid was a good nature i used a timid nature because it was the first one i caught in game and then i played through the game spamming cotton guard and energy ball she also helped me take down my friends Electrivire i got a sub+ cotton guard in :3

miju♥

R_N
15th June 2011, 3:47 AM
For reference, Ferrothron was #1 OU a few months ago. Tyranitar is now #1 (Ferro holding strong at #2)

manifesto
15th June 2011, 4:10 AM
Why is Tyranitar #1 now anyway? Sand Stream I suppose?

R_N
15th June 2011, 4:21 AM
Why is Tyranitar #1 now anyway? Sand Stream I suppose?

Probably. I wouldn't be surprised if the two continued to flipflop, since Tyranitar was #2 back in April and the usage rankings are very close to one another.

Adrexus
15th June 2011, 4:30 AM
I'm not sure exactly, but I think its mainly because of sand stream being such a good support ability. Plus Tyranitar's monstrous base attack and its decent special attack coupled with its large movepool can make it be unpredictable at times.

Dattebayo
15th June 2011, 4:35 AM
Well thinka about, he's the series's Godzilla. Both are almost unstoppable.

manifesto
15th June 2011, 4:40 AM
This is true, I was just thinking that T-tar wouldn't be #1. Not that it matters to me anyway. I don't compete online, just with my friends and siblings.

XXD17
15th June 2011, 4:43 AM
a T-tar and a sand force excadrill make an extremely deadly team not to mention the FEAR Aron that requires sandstorm to work...maybe that's why?

jolteon135
15th June 2011, 4:59 AM
Tyranitar is #1 because of sand stream and being a good check to Latios. It has monstrous special defense thanks to sand stream and can trap Latios and KO it or just force it out plus it handles other special attacker fairly well. Many things have to resort to 70% accurate focus blast just to have a chance at killing it. Also sand force/sand rush/sand veil Pokemon benefit from it and a lot of people love to use the sub Garchomp and get some hax. :/


a T-tar and a sand force excadrill make an extremely deadly team...maybe that's why?
T-tar and Excadrill make an extremely easy team for me 'cause I always have a Hitmontop. :D

R_N
15th June 2011, 5:21 AM
Tyranitar is #1 because of sand stream and being a good check to Latios. It has monstrous special defense thanks to sand stream and can trap Latios and KO it or just force it out plus it handles other special attacker fairly well. Many things have to resort to 70% accurate focus blast just to have a chance at killing it. Also sand force/sand rush/sand veil Pokemon benefit from it and a lot of people love to use the sub Garchomp and get some hax. :/


T-tar and Excadrill make an extremely easy team for me 'cause I always have a Hitmontop. :D

Garchomp was just banned, by the way!

Adrexus
15th June 2011, 5:24 AM
Garchomp was just banned, by the way!

Really are you serious? Well I shouldn't be surprised, it was banned in gen 4. So assuming its still just as good as last generation could make it broken. I suppose it really is that hard to counter.

Rubicante
15th June 2011, 5:28 AM
Really are you serious? Well I shouldn't be surprised, it was banned in gen 4. So assuming its still just as good as last generation could make it broken. I suppose it really is that hard to counter.

It's a good thing I wasn't planning to put Garchomp in my Sandstorm team.

jolteon135
15th June 2011, 5:57 AM
Garchomp was just banned, by the way!
Yeah, I saw. Close call for Thundurus too. Hopefully he goes next too though I think it would be better to ban the weather starting Pokemon than to ban everything that benefits from it but I have no say in it.


Really are you serious? Well I shouldn't be surprised, it was banned in gen 4. So assuming its still just as good as last generation could make it broken. I suppose it really is that hard to counter.
It hits like a truck and with sand veil up it can often find time to set up even if you have the perfect counter. It's really sand veil that makes it broken.

manifesto
15th June 2011, 5:58 AM
It's just funny how sand force/sand stream isn't banned but swift swim and drizzle is. Isn't it?

jolteon135
15th June 2011, 6:02 AM
It's just funny how sand force/sand stream isn't banned but swift swim and drizzle is. Isn't it?

That's been discussed many times. Rain doubles the speed of swift swimmers and gives them an extra 1.5x boost to their STAB move.

Sand force is only a 1.33x boost and doesn't double speed.
Sand rush doubles speed but doesn't give a 1.5x boost to the users main STAB.

So you can see how swift swimmers get more benefit from rain than sand force/sand rush Pokemon get from sand storm.

manifesto
15th June 2011, 6:07 AM
Eh, there are counters for everything. But I honestly don't care since I'm not overly competitive and I just use whatever I want that isn't a legendary.

streetlightdsb
15th June 2011, 10:24 AM
Speed is doubled in a sandstorm. He works well with TTar. And the special defense boost makes Excadrill bulkier.
Sandstorm only raises SpDef of Rock types. Steel and Ground types are only immune to damage.

Ferroseed is adorable but I don't like Ferrothorn. Plus is had so many weaknesses.
It has 1 less weakness than your favourite Pokemon. And many more resistances.

Then you dont want ferrothorn its only really good competitively. Get cottonee and dont evolve it till 34. at 34 it learns cotton gaurd which +3 your def. And it always go first. Datte is a competitive battling nut so thats why he suggests it. Ingame you need strait power.
Ferrothorn is better for that than Whimsicott, too.

Eh, there are counters for everything. But I honestly don't care since I'm not overly competitive and I just use whatever I want that isn't a legendary.

You can still use Garchomp, in-game or with friends. Just don't bring it to a competitive battle if you get into it (unless it's an Uber battle)

Gloryus
15th June 2011, 10:43 AM
I'm glad Garchomp got banned, everytime I see one it's always in a sandstorm team and Sand Veil screws me over big time. Players liked abusing it because of the evasion clause.

Dattebayo
16th June 2011, 2:31 AM
With all the argument against Evasion Clause, does Smogon really want to destroy luck 100% in their metagame?

R_N
16th June 2011, 2:41 AM
With all the argument against Evasion Clause, does Smogon really want to destroy luck 100% in their metagame?

I guarantee you people raised a stink over Sand Veil solely because they wanted Garchomp out.

Rubicante
16th June 2011, 9:24 AM
Does anybody else find the naughty words the games banned a little funny? I got away with naming my Ditto "prostitute". Call me immature, but it brings a smile to my face when I read "Your [blank] and prostitute are doing fine!"

Adrexus
16th June 2011, 9:41 AM
I kind of figured they would do this eventually. Its kind of unfortunate about Cofagrigus on the GTS. Especially after learning how to pronounce its name.

はるひ
16th June 2011, 2:17 PM
Does anybody else find the naughty words the games banned a little funny? I got away with naming my Ditto "prostitute". Call me immature, but it brings a smile to my face when I read "Your [blank] and prostitute are doing fine!"

XDDDDDD

priceless

Dattebayo
16th June 2011, 5:30 PM
Anyone think Beeheyem could've been perfect as a BoltBeam user to separate himself from Reniculus?

Pokémon Trainer J
16th June 2011, 7:03 PM
I would like if Elgyem and Beheeyem were Rock/Psychic... they remind me of Stonehenge

Universe Chaser
16th June 2011, 7:12 PM
Anyone think Beeheyem could've been perfect as a BoltBeam user to separate himself from Reniculus?

I think that would've been a really good idea, because right now, Reuinculus is better than Beheeyem in every way...

General Nonsense
16th June 2011, 7:18 PM
I think that would've been a really good idea, because right now, Reuinculus is better than Beheeyem in every way...

Beheeyem gets nasty plot and Reuniclus doesn't. That's gotta count for something

Dattebayo
16th June 2011, 7:19 PM
Beheeyem gets nasty plot and Reuniclus doesn't. That's gotta count for something

Yeah but it'll be dead on the second turn after it uses Nasty Plot, even if you used Trick Room on the first turn.

General Nonsense
16th June 2011, 7:23 PM
Yeah but it'll be dead on the second turn after it uses Nasty Plot, even if you used Trick Room on the first turn.

Not necessarily

はるひ
16th June 2011, 7:56 PM
Yeah but it'll be dead on the second turn after it uses Nasty Plot, even if you used Trick Room on the first turn.

Low defense I agree. I can OHKO those guys even with Wonder Room or whatever. :p

my poor Misdreavus has a low defense as well and can be OHKOd be a Conkeldurrs stone edge :[

manifesto
16th June 2011, 8:00 PM
But that's because Misdreavus is an unevolved Pokemon. D:

はるひ
16th June 2011, 8:06 PM
ahh.

I'm waiting for mine to learn Power Gem to evovle mine lol

General Nonsense
16th June 2011, 8:10 PM
But that's because Misdreavus is an unevolved Pokemon. D:

Not to mention, Conkeldurr has a rediculously high attack stat

Rubicante
16th June 2011, 10:25 PM
I checked Misdreavus' Pokedex page to see what its Dream World ability is. It only gets Levitate, really? It would've been awesome to give it Prankster! It could perishtrap with priority! This makes me sad.

streetlightdsb
16th June 2011, 11:45 PM
I checked Misdreavus' Pokedex page to see what its Dream World ability is. It only gets Levitate, really? It would've been awesome to give it Prankster! It could perishtrap with priority! This makes me sad.

IIRC nothing with Levitate got any different abilities. Most likely because it wouldn't make sense for something which is obviously floating to be hit by a Ground move.

EDIT:

Couldn't help but laugh at this as I think of all the Venomoths, Magnezones, Dustoxs and Beedrills that wish that were true
Fair point. Must be for some other reason then.

King Lawliet
16th June 2011, 11:59 PM
IIRC nothing with Levitate got any different abilities. Most likely because it wouldn't make sense for something which is obviously floating to be hit by a Ground move.
Couldn't help but laugh at this as I think of all the Venomoths, Magnezones, Dustoxs and Beedrills that wish that were true

NeohopeSTF
17th June 2011, 12:01 AM
Evolite ferroseed the next evolite wall

KickAsh
17th June 2011, 12:24 AM
IIRC nothing with Levitate got any different abilities.
Bronzor and Bronzong both got a Dream World ability (Heavy Metal).
Although they are the only two Pokemon with Levitate that got a DW ability.



Most likely because it wouldn't make sense for something which is obviously floating to be hit by a Ground move.
Jellicent is classified as the Floating Pokemon, and it does not get Levitate at all. Jellicent is still hit by Ground moves, still takes damage from Sky Drop, is still effected by Arena Trap, and is still vulnerable to Spikes and Toxic Spikes.
And also what J-Myc said.

General Nonsense
17th June 2011, 12:28 AM
Jellicent is classified as the Floating Pokemon, and it does not get Levitate at all. Jellicent is still hit by Ground moves, still takes damage from Sky Drop, is still effected by Arena Trap, and is still vulnerable to Spikes and Toxic Spikes.

That's probably because it floats around in the water, not in the air

Typhlosionvsworld
17th June 2011, 12:33 AM
Evolite? What does that mean?

R_N
17th June 2011, 12:33 AM
Bronzor and Bronzong both got a Dream World ability (Heavy Metal).
Although they are the only two Pokemon with Levitate that got a DW ability.



That would probably be because they're the only pokemon with Levitate that naturally have an alternate ability

still a bit odd

Mangoes
17th June 2011, 12:38 AM
Evolite? What does that mean?

It's an item that's held by a pokemon that can evolve but doesn't that raises it's defense and special defence by 1.5. It's the reason that Chansey is better than Blissey this generation.

KickAsh
17th June 2011, 12:41 AM
That's probably because it floats around in the water, not in the air
Regardless, there are still Pokemon like Togekiss and Butterfree who don't get Levitate. Sure, it's not likely that every floating/flying/hovering Pokemon will get Levitate, but then the original poster's comment doesn't make sense.



still a bit odd
What I find particularly odd about it is that one of its abilities involves levitating while its DW ability is about being heavy. That doesn't really mix.

はるひ
17th June 2011, 2:21 AM
Well think about it, flying Pokemon already "levitate". so It's stupid to give them that ability.

King Lawliet
17th June 2011, 2:34 AM
Well think about it, flying Pokemon already "levitate". so It's stupid to give them that ability.
Fan Rotom agrees with you 100 percent

R_N
17th June 2011, 3:34 AM
Fan Rotom agrees with you 100 percent

Fan Rotom shouldn't really count, since the typing didn't happen until gen 5 and it made sense for all the other forms.

VolcaronaZero
17th June 2011, 3:43 AM
Fan Rotom shouldn't really count, since the typing didn't happen until gen 5 and it made sense for all the other forms.

When you think about it, Flying+Levitate is a good thing, since Mold Breaker takes out Levitate (correct me if I'm wrong), but the flying type still keeps it away from getting EQ'd.

XXD17
17th June 2011, 4:08 AM
When you think about it, Flying+Levitate is a good thing, since Mold Breaker takes out Levitate (correct me if I'm wrong), but the flying type still keeps it away from getting EQ'd.

yeah it does but who would seriously keep a rotom in on a haxorus considering no one really uses rampardos or pinsir (unless for will-o-wisp purposes I guess)...

はるひ
17th June 2011, 4:17 AM
But it's still dumb. I mean Flying already have immunity to ground. Why should a flying type have levitate? It's the same thing. :p

VolcaronaZero
17th June 2011, 4:18 AM
yeah it does but who would seriously keep a rotom in on a haxorus considering no one really uses rampardos or pinsir (unless for will-o-wisp purposes I guess)...

Define Rotom. Fridge Rotom loves Haxorus...and not in a good way.

But Rampardos and Pinsir are some UU pokemon, people use 'em.

XXD17
17th June 2011, 4:22 AM
Define Rotom. Fridge Rotom loves Haxorus...and not in a good way.

But Rampardos and Pinsir are some UU pokemon, people use 'em.

I meant fan rotom...but fridge rotom only has blizzard to play with...unless it's max speed running wide lense, even it can't do much before being taken out with rock slide or EQ....and wouldn't it be better for rampardos to exploit fan rotoms rock weakness rather than its ground weakness?

Dattebayo
17th June 2011, 5:30 AM
Define Rotom. Fridge Rotom loves Haxorus...and not in a good way.

But Rampardos and Pinsir are some UU pokemon, people use 'em.

Rampardos and Pinsir are NU, which means they're too weak to even try to counter Fantom.

tatter
17th June 2011, 5:39 AM
i have a question about 3 vs. 3 battles, im tired of whimsicott running around with priority tailwind ruining my day online. i've come up with a dusclops that knows Snatch to remedy this prudent problem online but im wondering if snatch will only affect the pokemon in range or everyone?

like if my dusclops was on the complete opposite side of whimsicott would snatch still take the tailwind or would dusclops have to be in position where whimsicott was in range for attacks in order for it to take the tailwind?

R_N
17th June 2011, 6:33 AM
Rampardos and Pinsir are NU, which means they're too weak to even try to counter Fantom.

That's not what it means, really

Dattebayo
17th June 2011, 4:40 PM
That's not what it means, really

NU means "Neverused," so newcomers will assume that they're too weak to battle.

KickAsh
17th June 2011, 5:05 PM
NU means "Neverused," so newcomers will assume that they're too weak to battle.
It's actually based on usage, not weakness. Usage could be a function of how strong a Pokemon is, but still--the tiers are based on how frequently a Pokemon is used.


And newcomers will assume Pinsir and Rampardos to be weak?


Rampardos and Pinsir are NU, which means they're too weak to even try to counter Fantom.

too weak

weak
That's ironic.

Witchan
17th June 2011, 5:09 PM
This whole tier thing is getting out of hand, really. I don't see how Rampardos and Pinsir could become useless when they have the proper tools to handle themselves in battle, as well as each and every pokemon in the game.

Silent Conversation
17th June 2011, 5:13 PM
I'm sorry, but if a newcomer is introduced to Pokemon, stumbles upon Bulbapedia/Serebii and sees Rampardos's 165 attack stat, I don't think they'll consider it weak.

misterdarvus
17th June 2011, 5:22 PM
But Rampardos still slow and fragile, but with choice scarf maybe not bad.....

Witchan
17th June 2011, 5:24 PM
But Rampardos still slow and fragile, but with choice scarf maybe not bad.....

Or maybe someone with Trick Room and with Rampardos's moveset in a double battle: Protect, Head Smash, Earthquake, Fire Punch.

Hilijix
17th June 2011, 5:41 PM
Or maybe someone with Trick Room and with Rampardos's moveset in a double battle: Protect, Head Smash, Earthquake, Fire Punch.

Might not be a bad idea, but Earthquake + Levitate spamming might be trouble if it doesn't KO. Rampardos is a beast, though, and it can at least take a hit better than Deoxys.

R_N
17th June 2011, 6:58 PM
This whole tier thing is getting out of hand, really. I don't see how Rampardos and Pinsir could become useless when they have the proper tools to handle themselves in battle, as well as each and every pokemon in the game.

It's all about having enough to be useful. And with so many Pokemon in the series with so many strategies, some will always be more useful than a slow/frail MONSTER and a strong, but outclassed, bug (Heracross is sadly better than Pinsir in a lot of ways :( ).

The Oncoming Storm
17th June 2011, 7:41 PM
Yeah its upsetting that Fantoms abilities happened but it's done. I just hope that this mix doesnt happen again.

KickAsh
18th June 2011, 1:11 AM
Heracross is sadly better than Pinsir in a lot of ways :( ).
It's all about that dual typing!
If it makes you feel better, though, Heracross is in UU, so it's only one tier up from Pinsir's domain in NU.

R_N
18th June 2011, 1:33 AM
It's all about that dual typing!
If it makes you feel better, though, Heracross is in UU, so it's only one tier up from Pinsir's domain in NU.

RU, actually. NU will be determined later

Being separated by tiers is kind of a big deal, though. Furret is also one tier away from Heracross, for example.

KickAsh
18th June 2011, 4:36 AM
RU, actually. NU will be determined later

Being separated by tiers is kind of a big deal, though. Furret is also one tier away from Heracross, for example.

Oh right I forgot about that fancy-pants new tier.

Well, Pinsir > Furret. Within the NU tier, Pinsir (probably) receives more usage than Furret, so Pinsir is closer to Heracross than Furret is.
Yeah but still. NU and RU are still pretty far apart, I see your point.

Dattebayo
18th June 2011, 5:47 AM
NU is the worst place for a Pokemon to end up in as it would mean that newcomers to competitive play will avoid it as possible because they only care about strong Pokemon, who happen to be those in OU.

Typhlosionvsworld
18th June 2011, 5:51 AM
NU is the worst place for a Pokemon to end up in as it would mean that newcomers to competitive play will avoid it as possible because they only care about strong Pokemon, who happen to be those in OU.

There aren't that many Pokemon in NU.
Some that come to mind are Ledian, Audino, and Unown, for obvious reasons

Dattebayo
18th June 2011, 5:57 AM
There aren't that many Pokemon in NU.
Some that come to mind are Ledian, Audino, and Unown, for obvious reasons

In Gen 4, there were more Pokemon in NU than the amount of Pokemon in OU and UU combined. I expect Gen 5's NU to be so big that it makes it feel like this is the worst gen ever.

The Oncoming Storm
18th June 2011, 6:14 AM
alot of people only play NU and whats this new RU tier

Toge Tamer
18th June 2011, 10:35 AM
In Gen 4, there were more Pokemon in NU than the amount of Pokemon in OU and UU combined. I expect Gen 5's NU to be so big that it makes it feel like this is the worst gen ever.
Hence why there's a new tier, RU.

PokemonOwn
18th June 2011, 11:05 AM
I quite like playing NU. Heatmor and Audino come to mind, from this Gen. Pinsir, I like.

SasakiThePikachu
18th June 2011, 1:09 PM
NU is the worst place for a Pokemon to end up in as it would mean that newcomers to competitive play will avoid it as possible because they only care about strong Pokemon, who happen to be those in OU.

Maybe those newcomers should think for themselves about what Pokemon they want to use rather than having to be told what's strong and what's not, hm?

I agree with Witchan. A pokemon's strength and viability - yeah, even in competitive play - is much more than just this 'tier' grouping that some fans sadly seem to have taken as gospel. I've used pokemon both in-game and in wifi battles that I believe most Smogon players would class in the lower tiers (Houndoom, Lantern, Floatzel, Jumpluff, Lapras, Nidoqueen), and they've kicked butt. Sometimes a rubbish-seeming poke can surprise you if you just train it well and give it a chance.

Dattebayo
18th June 2011, 4:10 PM
Hence why there's a new tier, RU.

RU just brings more ridicule to the lower tiered Pokemon.

poix_the_yak
18th June 2011, 5:55 PM
Know what I just discovered? POKEMON STOLE MY NAME!! >:(
I was looking at an old sprite thread I'd made in 2009, one of my fakemon was called "Trankwil". It was tge "Peaceful porcupine" pokemon. I'm betting you anything that nintendo came here and stole it and said, "Let's misspell it and make it a different species so Skyler 99 won't sue us!"
That's what happened, thanks for listening.

NeohopeSTF
18th June 2011, 6:00 PM
Not matter tier its in i can kick butt with my stunfisk.

R_N
18th June 2011, 7:45 PM
RU just brings more ridicule to the lower tiered Pokemon.

Well would you rather NU be even bigger mess than it was last time?

At least people like and actively play RU

Shine
18th June 2011, 7:49 PM
NU is an odd name, to be honest.

People sometimes play NU, which completely contradicts the name (Never Used)

R_N
18th June 2011, 7:50 PM
NU is an odd name, to be honest.

People sometimes play NU, which completely contradicts the name (Never Used)

Well comparatively never used. Name gets the point across easily enough.

Though, iirc, NU was never that popular of a tier in general (a trait it ironically shared with Ubers)

Cassiopeia
18th June 2011, 7:52 PM
Gah...so many tiers
Im looking forward to MU (Moderately Used) next gen -______-

NeohopeSTF
18th June 2011, 7:57 PM
TU
To used?

Shine
18th June 2011, 8:04 PM
TU
To used?

If you meant "too used", that would be Over Used (OU) ;)




anyway, random thought that suits this thread:

I wonder why they didn't give Articuno & Zapdos the move Air Slash just like Moltres....

Dattebayo
18th June 2011, 8:32 PM
I wonder why they didn't give Articuno & Zapdos the move Air Slash just like Moltres....

They probably didn't want to make them too difficult to catch.

NeohopeSTF
18th June 2011, 8:39 PM
I wonder
Did anybody else think Alolomolola was the Evo of Luvdisc?

Shine
18th June 2011, 8:54 PM
They probably didn't want to make them too difficult to catch.

....really?

They don't have to put it on the moves they have when they are captured....they could have given them the move at level 1 similar to Rapidash and its Megahorn, or simply allow them to learn the move later on at higher level.

Also, if they really don't want them to be too difficult to catch, then why Moltres gets Air Slash?
Not to mention that capturing difficulty differs between people as it also relies on your luck, and whether you have spare Masterballs or not.

R_N
18th June 2011, 9:00 PM
They probably didn't want to make them too difficult to catch.

Which is why they made them all have Roost in addition to being Runners in Platinum!

And why Zapdos got Discharge & Articuno Reflect & Moltres also got Safeguard!

NeohopeSTF
18th June 2011, 9:02 PM
Articuno Already has Mind Reader and Sheer Cold

manifesto
19th June 2011, 4:09 AM
Articuno Already has Mind Reader and Sheer Cold

But never during a battle in which you're catching them. I'm coming in late to this conversation so I'm pretty sure that's what's going on.

R_N
19th June 2011, 9:01 AM
I wonder
Did anybody else think Alolomolola was the Evo of Luvdisc?

Everyone did.
Everyone. Not even exaggerating: Everyone at least one point believed this and the vast majority still held onto it well through pre-release

GalladeX
19th June 2011, 4:57 PM
I didn't.

Think Alomomola evolved from Luvdisc, that is.

rocky505
19th June 2011, 5:16 PM
Why did GF make Serperior so awful? I thought Meganium was bad but this is just crazy.

Kisekisan
19th June 2011, 6:03 PM
Everyone did.
Everyone. Not even exaggerating: Everyone at least one point believed this and the vast majority still held onto it well through pre-release

We all did, and I still think there must be some kind of relationship between these two pokémon.

I also used to think Bouffalant was to be the evolved form of Tauros.

manifesto
19th June 2011, 6:28 PM
I think that most of the pokemon were supposed to be parallels. I thought Alomomola was related to Luvdisc until I learned that B/W didn't have any old pokemon in the Unova Dex. I mean for example, Tauros could be based off of the cows/bulls that are native to Japan and since Buffalo are native to the U.S. we get Bouffalant. It makes sense to me in that way.

Moneyy
19th June 2011, 6:50 PM
I wonder
Did anybody else think Alolomolola was the Evo of Luvdisc?

I thought that too. If there is a reason that it is not Luvdisc's evo, what is it?

Also Stunfisk looks like it is drugged.

Grei
19th June 2011, 7:11 PM
Why did GF make Serperior so awful? I thought Meganium was bad but this is just crazy.

Serperior isn't that bad. O.o It's fast, defensive, and can seed. It's definitely not the best Starter, it just needs a better movepool. And Contrary.

rocky505
20th June 2011, 2:06 AM
Yeah but contrary won't help it much it needs better special moves to really be dangerous.

R_N
20th June 2011, 2:33 AM
Yeah but contrary won't help it much it needs better special moves to really be dangerous.

If it had any other special moves it would be broken.
As it is it has to settle for "really powerful"

Hilijix
20th June 2011, 2:40 AM
I wonder
Did anybody else think Alolomolola was the Evo of Luvdisc?

I did so much, it made me annoyed when it was announced no old Pokemon would be returning.



I thought that too. If there is a reason that it is not Luvdisc's evo, what is it?

Alomomola has different stat spreads than Luvdisc. Luvdisc is more on Speed, Alomomola more on HP.

rocky505
20th June 2011, 2:48 AM
If it had any other special moves it would be broken.
As it is it has to settle for "really powerful"

If it did get more special moves it would end up like blaziken in competitive. But it would also be more useful in game.

R_N
20th June 2011, 2:50 AM
If it did get more special moves it would end up like blaziken in competitive. But it would also be more useful in game.

In-game shallow movepools don't really matter, Serperior has what it needs to succeed.

rocky505
20th June 2011, 3:18 AM
In-game shallow movepools don't really matter, Serperior has what it needs to succeed.

No not really. Shallow movepool ruins it. It barely has moves for a physical set which is walled by steel types. It needs at 2 more spatk moves that are not grass,normal type before i'll consider using it.

R_N
20th June 2011, 3:31 AM
No not really. Shallow movepool ruins it. It barely has moves for a physical set which is walled by steel types. It needs at 2 more spatk moves that are not grass,normal type before i'll consider using it.

Yes, really. I used Vanilluxe & Lilligant, both of whom have shallow movepools but they didn't need that much to work well. In fact, they were my star players compared to the powerful & full of moves Reuniclus and diverse enough Samurott.
My Lilligant's only attacking move was Giga Drain!

Mister_SGG
20th June 2011, 3:33 AM
My Lilligant's only attacking move was Giga Drain!

Because...?

R_N
20th June 2011, 3:37 AM
Because...?

It didn't need any other attacking move. And it has twos of options, all of which are grass (& Hidden Power)

rocky505
20th June 2011, 4:13 AM
I don't see why GF hated on some of the grass types and gave them shallow movepools. The obly useful grass types I've used are Leavanny,Simisage and Whimsicott.

R_N
20th June 2011, 4:23 AM
I don't see why GF hated on some of the grass types and gave them shallow movepools. The obly useful grass types I've used are Leavanny,Simisage and Whimsicott.

Lilligant is a death machine.
Ferrothorn is one of the best walls and even gets nice things like Power Whip, Gyro Ball, Curse and such
Sawsbuck has a bizarrely usefully set of moves all things considered.

Cassiopeia
20th June 2011, 4:26 AM
Lilligant is a death machine.
Ferrothorn is one of the best walls and even gets nice things like Power Whip, Gyro Ball, Curse and such
Sawsbuck has a bizarrely usefully set of moves all things considered.

This. 10char.

R_N
20th June 2011, 4:28 AM
Oh, an Maracactus has a pretty okay movepool. I mean the TM pool is absolutely abysmal no matter how you look at it, but other than tha--It gets Bouce?
huh

rocky505
20th June 2011, 4:31 AM
I forgot Sawsbuck and Ferrothorn. I bred a ferroseed with Seed bomb and leech seed and it was pretty good. Lilligant is just like serperior shallow movepool, gets walled by flyers and fire types. Maractus ugh it is worse than Serperior to me. And there's amoongus I haven't used it yet might try it when I start black over again.

Cassiopeia
20th June 2011, 4:44 AM
I forgot Sawsbuck and Ferrothorn. I bred a ferroseed with Seed bomb and leech seed and it was pretty good. Lilligant is just like serperior shallow movepool, gets walled by flyers and fire types. Maractus ugh it is worse than Serperior to me. And there's amoongus I haven't used it yet might try it when I start black over again.

Just because a pokemon doesnt have a great movepool doesnt mean it sucks. Or vice versa. Just because a Delcatty has a large movepool doesnt mean that its automatically awesome.
Anyways, Lilligant gets one of the best set up moves, Quiver dance. Plus Own Tempo and Petal Dance, it can even sweep.

rocky505
20th June 2011, 5:00 AM
You can't sweep an entire team with petal dance. What if a crobat comes in. WALLED. What if a charizard comes in. WALLED what if a venomoth comes in. WALLED. Most pokemon with awful movepools do suck. Grass types in 5th gen got nerfed. Lilligant should have gotten shadow ball IMO maybe even psychic. Serperior should have some attacking poison moves, it should have dragon pulse too. Maractus I can't say anything about since it is just like tangela. starts out odd but later becomes good. I can see Maractus gaining an awesome evo in the future.

BCVM22
20th June 2011, 5:03 AM
You can't sweep an entire team with petal dance. What if a crobat comes in. WALLED. What if a charizard comes in. WALLED what if a venomoth comes in. WALLED.

So you're saying that a fair number of Pokémon will be on the run if put up against something they're weak against?

rocky505
20th June 2011, 5:13 AM
So you're saying that a fair number of Pokémon will be on the run if put up against something they're weak against? no I'm saying the thing won't sweep. That is the only thing Lilligant is known for is petal dance+ own tempo. I am sure someone will not be dumb enough to leave a pokemon not resistent to Petal Dance in against one. They will switch to something that resists it fire,Flying, steel(Unless Lilligant has HP fire) poison, bug(Same as steel).

Cassiopeia
20th June 2011, 5:29 AM
no I'm saying the thing won't sweep. That is the only thing Lilligant is known for is petal dance+ own tempo. I am sure someone will not be dumb enough to leave a pokemon not resistent to Petal Dance in against one. They will switch to something that resists it fire,Flying, steel(Unless Lilligant has HP fire) poison, bug(Same as steel).

We are talking about in game. Competitive, Lilligant sucks.

rocky505
20th June 2011, 5:34 AM
Lilligant sucks in game too. But not as bad as Maractus. Lilligant is weak against 4 gyms (6 if you count Chili and Elesa's Emolga's) That pretty much sucks.

R_N
20th June 2011, 5:43 AM
Lilligant sucks in game too. But not as bad as Maractus. Lilligant is weak against 4 gyms (6 if you count Chili and Elesa's Emolga's) That pretty much sucks.

oh yes she sucks so much I used her more than Conkeldurr, Samurott, Reuniclus, Gigalith...
The vast majority of the time Giga Drain was all she needed (even without the QD boost or putting something to sleep).

Yeah I had to switch her out from time to time but duh.
This isn't a damn solo run.

rocky505
20th June 2011, 5:45 AM
She just needs more moves before I'd consider using it. What's it's best set? Lay out a sleep powder, QD up and rape with petal dance and HP fire/Ice?

R_N
20th June 2011, 5:48 AM
She just needs more moves before I'd consider using it. What's it's best set? Lay out a sleep powder, QD up and rape with petal dance and HP fire/Ice?

My set was Sleep Powder/Quiver Dance/Giga Drain/Leech Seed.

She's fast enough that, if need be, she can put someone to sleep, set up up some seeds, and still have time to dance her way to god hood. Give her the Big Root and she's a self healing killer.

rocky505
20th June 2011, 5:53 AM
I might give her a chance next time I start black over. I may start breeding now to try and get a modest HP fire/Ice one. But I am suprised at Whimsicott gaining more attacking moves than Lilligant.

SasakiThePikachu
20th June 2011, 1:11 PM
I don't see why GF hated on some of the grass types and gave them shallow movepools. The obly useful grass types I've used are Leavanny,Simisage and Whimsicott.

I played my first Black with Serperior, and her movepool wasn't too bad. The dragon move was a nice addition to make her useful in the final gym...shame that mine happened to be Bold natured ^^;

The reason Grass pokes often have shallow movepools is that they don't need a plethora of moves to kick butt; they generally get every status-problem infliction move under the sun, as well as ways to heal themselves and their team-mates. Grass types aren't meant to be versatile - they're meant to be a headache for your opponent, and they are.

Snowy - I'm planning to use a Lilligant in my White runthrough - what nature would you recommend? I was thinking Modest is probably good, or maybe giving her a speed boost with Timid is the way to go...?

rocky505
20th June 2011, 1:21 PM
Timid or Modest is best for it.

Kikkoman
20th June 2011, 2:30 PM
I must admit, my Serperior was possibly the best Pokemon on my party when going through the game. Grass Pokemon, with standard Sub Seed set, but it did really really well. It's Substitute, Leech Seed, Giga Drain and HP Rock (I got SOOOO LUCKY with that! Best type for it, seriously). It just didn't die!! Add Big Root and it's set. Grass types generally end up being annoyers, and in the game, if you've got the patience, that generally pays off. The computer's AI isn't always the best, and yeh, annoyers can take advantage of them doing stupid things.

Also, with regards to evolutions and stuff like, with Luvdisc > Alomomola... I don't think I ever considered that.... but I DID wonder why Bouffalant wasn't related to Tauros. Also, Personally I think Stunfisk reminds me of Dunsparce... =P

Toge Tamer
20th June 2011, 6:03 PM
Out of all the Grass types, I'm hoping I catch Maractus in my Nuzlocke run. I don't know, something just seems tempting about it. XD

Lorde
20th June 2011, 6:10 PM
I played my first Black with Serperior, and her movepool wasn't too bad. The dragon move was a nice addition to make her useful in the final gym...shame that mine happened to be Bold natured ^^;

You mean Dragon Tail? I dislike that move with a passion. It isn't the most accurate move in the world, plus it always hits last, so it doesn't come in handy very much, at least in my opinion. I've pretty much given up on Serperior. I thought it would be a good Pokemon to use, but it's very unreliable in my experience. I'll just train a Lilligant or a Whimsicott next.

PokemonOwn
20th June 2011, 6:15 PM
Out of all the Grass types, I'm hoping I catch Maractus in my Nuzlocke run. I don't know, something just seems tempting about it. XD

Just cos' you want it to die I know, it's awesome!

Well, I'm going to do a JPN White walkthrough on Youtube. I know I'm using Oshawott, Maractus, Sawk, Emolga... What else, to balance my team? I'd like to use Pokemon that don't evolve. Possibly Litwick for Fire, and Karrablst for Bug. I'd quite like that.

Thoughts?

(Well, I'm not picking Larvesta for both, am I?)

Toge Tamer
20th June 2011, 6:19 PM
Just cos' you want it to die I know, it's awesome!

Well, I'm going to do a JPN White walkthrough on Youtube. I know I'm using Oshawott, Maractus, Sawk, Emolga... What else, to balance my team? I'd like to use Pokemon that don't evolve. Possibly Litwick for Fire, and Karrablst for Bug. I'd quite like that.

Thoughts?

(Well, I'm not picking Larvesta for both, am I?)
I think Heatmor / Litwick and Druddigon would be pretty nifty. c:

PokemonOwn
20th June 2011, 6:33 PM
I think Heatmor / Litwick and Druddigon would be pretty nifty. c:

I really want to pick Heatmor, but it's too late in the game. Do you think I should trade after Gym 1? Same with Druddigon... Ah, I don't really like Litwick, so I'll go with Heatmor and Axew. Possibly.

Thanks!

Toge Tamer
20th June 2011, 6:58 PM
I really want to pick Heatmor, but it's too late in the game. Do you think I should trade after Gym 1? Same with Druddigon... Ah, I don't really like Litwick, so I'll go with Heatmor and Axew. Possibly.

Thanks!
I had that thought too, but I'm not really a Litwick / Darumaka fan so Heatmor was next best. I'd trade after the 1st gym if you can, but if you don't I'm sure it'll be worth the wait. Not many people use Heatmor. :>

R_N
20th June 2011, 7:39 PM
Snowy - I'm planning to use a Lilligant in my White runthrough - what nature would you recommend? I was thinking Modest is probably good, or maybe giving her a speed boost with Timid is the way to go...?

You probably don't need the speedboost. When I was first picking out Petalil (I had two so I could trade for Cotonee) I wound up picking the one with the speed lowering nature thinking Lilli was a slow plant who clearly would never need a speedboost
(It still outsped virtually every opponent she went against)

Geekachu
20th June 2011, 8:08 PM
I really want to pick Heatmor, but it's too late in the game. Do you think I should trade after Gym 1? Same with Druddigon... Ah, I don't really like Litwick, so I'll go with Heatmor and Axew. Possibly.

Heatmor could make your walkthrough quite unique and different. And personally, I'd definitely choose Axew over Druddigon, Haxorus is a beast. Elsewhere, I'd be a little bit dubious about Maractus- its movepool isn't the best :/

Grei
20th June 2011, 8:10 PM
Why in the world does an awkward cactus get Bounce


Lilligant sucks in game too. But not as bad as Maractus. Lilligant is weak against 4 gyms (6 if you count Chili and Elesa's Emolga's) That pretty much sucks.

You have never used Lilligant before and you're claiming it sucks? Like Snowy, my Lilligant is practically the star of my team in-game. She can dominate against every opponent.

And even against Pokemon she's weak against, she can put them to sleep, Quiver Dance to raise stats, and drain them before they wake up. She's a killing machine, even when she's up against something that is good against Grass-types.

Lilligant is arguably one the best Grass-types in this Gen. You admitted yourself that you have never used Lilligant, so kindly stop thinking that you have a clue what you're talking about.

Dattebayo
20th June 2011, 9:03 PM
Rocky's right, Ferrothorn's the only good grass type this gen along with Sawsbuck and Simisage(with his trollish stats). The rest lack type coverage.

R_N
20th June 2011, 9:04 PM
Rocky's right, Ferrothorn's the only good grass type this gen along with Sawsbuck and Simisage(with his trollish stats). The rest lack type coverage.

Amoongus, too.

Lilligant is at least finding her place in RU

Dattebayo
20th June 2011, 9:11 PM
Amoongus, too.

Lilligant is at least finding her place in RU

Which is bad because OU and UU are the current standard battles in the metagames. It just needs moves like Shadow Ball to get more usage. Also, like all types, Grass needs a plethora of moves to kick butt, and nobody likes using Pokemon who are only good at status-infliction problems. Plus they're needed to counter water/ground types like Swampert.

R_N
20th June 2011, 9:17 PM
Which is bad because OU and UU are the current standard battles in the metagames. It just needs moves like Shadow Ball to get more usage. Also, like all types, Grass needs a plethora of moves to kick butt, and nobody likes using Pokemon who are only good at status-infliction problems. Plus they're needed to counter water/ground types like Swampert.

You act like RU will never go anywhere. Already I've seen far more people playing, stratigizing, and talking about RU than NU could ever dream of.

edit: Wait "nobody likes using Pokemon who are only good at status"? People love laying down status!

Aurath8
20th June 2011, 9:20 PM
nobody likes using Pokemon who are only good at status-infliction problems.

Blissey/Chansey?
Dusknoir?
Thunderus?
Whimsicott?
Cresselia?
Bronzong?

Dattebayo
20th June 2011, 9:27 PM
You act like RU will never go anywhere. Already I've seen far more people playing, stratigizing, and talking about RU than NU could ever dream of.

Unless Smogon declares it a standard metagame like Uber and OU, then no.


edit: Wait "nobody likes using Pokemon who are only good at status"? People love laying down status!

While sweeping them with different moves at the same time.

R_N
20th June 2011, 9:34 PM
Unless Smogon declares it a standard metagame like Uber and OU, then no.

Er.
It is a standard game. They made it and people take it seriously. After OU & UU settle down a little they're going to do suspect testing and everything.

Also funny that you use Ubers as an example of a standard metagame when it is literally just a playable banlist and oddly not that popular of a metagame.


While sweeping them with different moves at the same time.

Yeah things like Blissey sure do love...sweeping.

Aurath8
20th June 2011, 9:40 PM
While sweeping them with different moves at the same time.

I'll post this again for emphasis:

Blissey/Chansey
Whimsicott

Blissey sometimes uses an attack but it can't even KO Dragonite with Ice Beam after Stealth Rock without some spatk EVs. Chansey only uses Seismic Toss to stop it from being Taunt fodder.
Whimsicott very rarely uses any attack thanks to priority Taunt stopping any oppossing Taunts.

Dattebayo
20th June 2011, 9:41 PM
Er.
It is a standard game. They made it and people take it seriously. After OU & UU settle down a little they're going to do suspect testing and everything.

If it is, then why is it not being played more often as OU?


Also funny that you use Ubers as an example of a standard metagame when it is literally just a playable banlist and oddly not that popular of a metagame.

I remember someone mentioning Uber being a standard.


Yeah things like Blissey sure do love...sweeping.

But thanks to Psyshock and Psystrike, it's being used less. Players are now depending on using Pokemon with brute force to win, and type coverage will be needed.

R_N
20th June 2011, 9:47 PM
If it is, then why is it not being played more often as OU?

Because it's OU? UU & Ubers are not played more often.

And RU just started up a little while ago.


I remember someone mentioning Uber being a standard.

Speaking of, now that I think of it, what on earth do you mean by being "standard." Standard usually refers to OU so far as I know because it's just that: The standard.
And then you also seem to refer to RU not being standard because it isn't used more than OU; but UU & Ubers aren't used more than OU so wouldn't that mean they aren't standard?
If they were, would that make OU not standard?


But thanks to Psyshock and Psystrike, it's being used less. Players are now depending on using Pokemon with brute force to win, and type coverage will be needed.

Not, not really?

Dattebayo
20th June 2011, 9:51 PM
Because it's OU? UU & Ubers are not played more often.

Just shows you've haven't talked to any Smogon experts.


Speaking of, now that I think of it, what on earth do you mean by being "standard." Standard usually refers to OU so far as I know because it's just that: The standard.
And then you also seem to refer to RU not being standard because it isn't used more than OU; but UU & Ubers aren't used more than OU so wouldn't that mean they aren't standard?
If they were, would that make OU not standard?

From what I see, a standard metagame is basically how often it's being played by the users.

Aurath8
20th June 2011, 9:54 PM
From what I see, a standard metagame is basically how often it's being played by the users.

That's quite vague. You say Uber is standard, but it isn't used as much as OU. You say it RU isn't standard but isn't used as much as OU. What defines a standard metagame?

Dattebayo
20th June 2011, 9:57 PM
That's quite vague. You say Uber is standard, but it isn't used as much as OU. You say it RU isn't standard but isn't used as much as OU. What defines a standard metagame?

I already told you, Any tier that's approved by Smogon experts based on usage. If more people play UU as much as OU for example, it becomes a standard metagame. But if one tier is not being used as often as Ou, then it's not part of the standard metagame.

Aurath8
20th June 2011, 10:01 PM
So Uber and UU are, in fact, not part of the standard metagame by this definition which completely contradicts arguments you posted on the previous page.

Dattebayo
20th June 2011, 10:09 PM
So Uber and UU are, in fact, not part of the standard metagame by this definition which completely contradicts arguments you posted on the previous page.

How are they not part of the standard metagame? I've heard many postitive reactions regarding those two tiers as if they've become part of the standard metagame with OU.

Aurath8
20th June 2011, 10:11 PM
How are they not part of the standard metagame? I've heard many postitive reactions regarding those two tiers as if they've become part of the standard metagame with OU.

Uber and UU are used less than OU. Fact. You consider the most used tier to be standard. Uber and UU are not standard using your own logic.

Dattebayo
20th June 2011, 10:14 PM
Uber and UU are used less than OU. Fact. You consider the most used tier to be standard. Uber and UU are not standard using your own logic.

But OU has a limited capacity, causing the rest of the OU worthy Pokemon moving into UU, which has now become part of the standard metagame. Just ask Kaiser soze.

R_N
20th June 2011, 10:40 PM
But OU has a limited capacity, causing the rest of the OU worthy Pokemon moving into UU, which has now become part of the standard metagame. Just ask Kaiser soze.

But UU isn't standard in that sense and people don't play it more often just because there's more things in there.
OU is still the standard.

And I browse Smogon all the time, particularly the suspects and such. People don't really bring up Ubers, and when they do it's typically in a "how can we get more people to play this" sense (or trying to ban things out of the tier which is kind of silly). When people bring up UU, they usually say it's more varied and fun than OU, but not that it actually gets more usage overall.

rocky505
20th June 2011, 11:48 PM
Why are you guys talking about competitive stuff in here?

R_N
21st June 2011, 12:07 AM
Why are you guys talking about competitive stuff in here?

Serperior has an awful movepool -> Grass Pokemon suck -> No? -> Yes! The movepools are too shallow to be used -> Lilligant is awesome -> Not even in-game -> Especially in-game -> Grass Pokemon need more than just status for competitive -> Not really, even Lilligant is finding its home in RU -> RU ISN'T STANDARD -> Yes? -> No! -> But -> Not like UU/Ubers! -> But...

Dattebayo
21st June 2011, 12:08 AM
Why are you guys talking about competitive stuff in here?

I was trying to defend you on how most of the grass types in Gen 5 are mediocre and why their status annoyance aren't enough.

rocky505
21st June 2011, 12:11 AM
God dang it. Dattebayo started this I already know it >_<. If this is competitive then people on Smogon were saying petal dance sucks on Lilligant and that giga drain was the better choice. and the reasons were because Lilligant would get stuck in battle with Pokemon who would murder it like fire/flying types.

R_N
21st June 2011, 12:16 AM
God dang it. Dattebayo started this I already know it >_<. If this is competitive then people on Smogon were saying petal dance sucks on Lilligant and that giga drain was the better choice. and the reasons were because Lilligant would get stuck in battle with Pokemon who would murder it like fire/flying types.

Yeah, the only real worth-while move of that type is Outrage and even then it's risky.

rocky505
21st June 2011, 12:19 AM
Yeah but Pokemon with better stats and more bulk use Outrage.

NeohopeSTF
21st June 2011, 2:29 AM
Suddenly A Stunfisk appears its one of the best 5th gen pokemon EVER!!

Typhlosionvsworld
21st June 2011, 2:31 AM
Stunfisk can be annoying when you set it up.

NeohopeSTF
21st June 2011, 2:49 AM
Has anybody noticed that every pokemon has Competitive Potential?

Typhlosionvsworld
21st June 2011, 2:51 AM
Yes. You just have to know what you are doing.

Sabertooth1000000000
21st June 2011, 3:12 AM
Has anybody noticed that every pokemon has Competitive Potential?

I wouldn't say that. There are a lot of underused Pokemon that can be useful if used right, but there are still a lot that are just lost causes like Sunkern, Spinda, and Luvdisc. Even if you set them up, they'll be slightly below average at best.


Yeah, the only real worth-while move of that type is Outrage and even then it's risky.

They're all so ridiculously powerful that they're pretty reliable anyway.

NeohopeSTF
21st June 2011, 3:14 AM
Whats the average then?

Dattebayo
21st June 2011, 3:57 PM
Whats the average then?

Sets that could be pulled off easily on Pokemon with superior stats.

Endless
21st June 2011, 4:12 PM
Sets that could be pulled off easily on Pokemon with superior stats.

That's not average, that's superior.

Dattebayo
21st June 2011, 4:20 PM
That's not average, that's superior.

When I think of average, I always think about the most common.

SnugNBouncy
21st June 2011, 5:22 PM
Whats the average then?

Im curious, whats the appeal of stunfisk? i havent figured it out yet...

Toge Tamer
21st June 2011, 5:37 PM
Im curious, whats the appeal of stunfisk? i havent figured it out yet...
The same reason people like Dunsparce, I assume; for the novelty. :p

Geekachu
21st June 2011, 6:49 PM
Im curious, whats the appeal of stunfisk? i havent figured it out yet...

It's a huge part of Derp-chic that sweeps the fandom whenever a Pokemon widely considered as stupid is introduced. However as always when a Pokemon becomes the constant subject of derp related remarks it becomes very repetetive and annoying.

はるひ
21st June 2011, 8:22 PM
Has anybody noticed that every pokemon has Competitive Potential?

All of mine have superior potential.

Geekachu
21st June 2011, 8:26 PM
All of mine have superior potential.

How are Cherrim and Dugtrio 'Giratina-themed' anyway :S Confusing

EDIT: Gah, you just changed your sig T.T How's Samurott Gothitelle themed then? :S

はるひ
21st June 2011, 8:34 PM
How are Cherrim and Dugtrio 'Giratina-themed' anyway :S Confusing

I replaced Cherrim with Shaymin lol and also they just have alot in common.


EDIT: Gah, you just changed your sig T.T How's Samurott Gothitelle themed then? :S

Samurott = samuraii. And I like to think of Gothitelle as one but that's me.

R_N
21st June 2011, 8:36 PM
I replaced Cherrim with Shaymin lol and also they just have alot in common.



Samurott = samuraii. And I like to think of Gothitelle as one but that's me.

So it really comes down to "I like this Pokemon therefore I determine if it is like this Pokemon"

edit: Wait I love that your entire Gothitelle themed team is based solely on the fact you think it should be part fighting (or a samurai)
amazing

はるひ
21st June 2011, 8:47 PM
So it really comes down to "I like this Pokemon therefore I determine if it is like this Pokemon"

edit: Wait I love that your entire Gothitelle themed team is based solely on the fact you think it should be part fighting (or a samurai)
amazing

Meaning I see the other members as a side of the leader. So no it's not based solely on the fact I think it should be part fighting. It is was, wouldn't all of my members except her be fighting?

R_N
21st June 2011, 9:04 PM
Meaning I see the other members as a side of the leader. So no it's not based solely on the fact I think it should be part fighting. It is was, wouldn't all of my members except her be fighting?
Fighting and sword fighting (which a number of people try really hard to mean Farfetch'd should evolve to Flying/Fighting so I hope you can see where I was coming from with that), then.
Skarmory: The wing blades are used as swords
Samurott: Fights with swords
Bisharp: Is a sword! (oh man I need to train one and call him Mack...)
Gallade: Fights with sword-arms

All stemming from you thinking Gothitelle should be a fighting type. And also be a Samurai.

And it's not like you don't have options that actually make sense. She's psychic, based on a style of fashion, girly looking, humanshape (look you can even fit in some fighting types here, maybe go the female macho route) and if you want to get a little silly you can probably try linking her to Marley's team & the Kimono girls
bam, look at all these options based on what she is.

はるひ
21st June 2011, 9:31 PM
Fighting and sword fighting (which a number of people try really hard to mean Farfetch'd should evolve to Flying/Fighting so I hope you can see where I was coming from with that), then.
Skarmory: The wing blades are used as swords
Samurott: Fights with swords
Bisharp: Is a sword! (oh man I need to train one and call him Mack...)
Gallade: Fights with sword-arms

All stemming from you thinking Gothitelle should be a fighting type. And also be a Samurai.


I didnt even know that about Skarmory. I picked it because it was steel = machines = smart.

R_N
21st June 2011, 9:37 PM
I didnt even know that about Skarmory. I picked it because it was steel = machines = smart.

how would you

but there's better

I just

forget it I'm done

はるひ
21st June 2011, 9:51 PM
I apologize....

Toge Tamer
21st June 2011, 9:55 PM
Speaking of theme teams, I've always believed Lucario, Bisharp, Scrafty and Mienshao should be on a team together.

Lucario = Steel / Fighting
Mienfoo = Pure Fighting + Aura Sphere
Bisharp = Dark (opposite of Fighting) / Steel
Scrafty = Fighting / Dark (opposite of Fighting)

It just fits, I guess. Massive fighting weakness though. XD

はるひ
21st June 2011, 9:57 PM
^^ lets hope that they dont come across a decent fighting or flying type.

R_N
21st June 2011, 10:12 PM
Speaking of theme teams, I've always believed Lucario, Bisharp, Scrafty and Mienshao should be on a team together.

Lucario = Steel / Fighting
Mienfoo = Pure Fighting + Aura Sphere
Bisharp = Dark (opposite of Fighting) / Steel
Scrafty = Fighting / Dark (opposite of Fighting)

It just fits, I guess. Massive fighting weakness though. XD

Aura Sphere is such an odd move because it doesn't really make sense on Pokemon other than Lucario.
I mean I guess I can see how Meinshao would get it, but things like Togekiss getting it is just baffling.

MetalFlygon08
21st June 2011, 11:26 PM
Happy Aura?

I just noticed theres another trio ingame.

Eelgyem, Pawniard, and Mienfoo.

I only just noticed it when that one trainer triple battles you with them in Opelucid.

R_N
21st June 2011, 11:31 PM
Happy Aura?

I just noticed theres another trio ingame.

Eelgyem, Pawniard, and Mienfoo.

I only just noticed it when that one trainer triple battles you with them in Opelucid.

I wouldn't really call that a trio, that fight is pretty much the only thing that links them.

KickAsh
21st June 2011, 11:35 PM
I didnt even know that about Skarmory. I picked it because it was steel = machines = smart.

Wait...so how do all those other Pokemon connect to Gothitelle?
Now I'm really curious.

Grei
21st June 2011, 11:40 PM
Wait...so how do all those other Pokemon connect to Gothitelle?
Now I'm really curious.

They don't.