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はるひ
22nd June 2011, 12:17 AM
Wait...so how do all those other Pokemon connect to Gothitelle?
Now I'm really curious.

Lets just say that the way I like to protray her, they are like different sides to her.

(Like my Giratina team, Shaymin was Giratina's fun side :p)

General Nonsense
22nd June 2011, 12:45 AM
Lets just say that the way I like to protray her, they are like different sides to her.

(Like my Giratina team, Shaymin was Giratina's fun side :p)

Really? I thought it was human shaped Pokemon plus Samurott and Skarmory for no apparent reason

KickAsh
22nd June 2011, 3:00 AM
They don't.
I meant how they connect in Silver's way of thinking
Oh.

NeohopeSTF
22nd June 2011, 4:52 AM
Every pokemon that has an evolution Just run an evolite set then you will be pro

Cassiopeia
22nd June 2011, 4:55 AM
Every pokemon that has an evolution Just run an evolite set then you will be pro

That doesnt always work. Magikarp. Skiploom. Skitty. Bidoof. Zweilous. Etc.

NeohopeSTF
22nd June 2011, 4:57 AM
^ ORLY
10char

Grei
22nd June 2011, 5:08 AM
^ ORLY
10char

It's clear that you're enjoying making posts like this, but you're spamming. Unless you want to get infractions, I would stop if I were you.


That doesnt always work. Magikarp. Skiploom. Skitty. Bidoof. Zweilous. Etc.

Zweilous + Eviolite = Not Good? Really?

R_N
22nd June 2011, 5:14 AM
It's clear that you're enjoying making posts like this, but you're spamming. Unless you want to get infractions, I would stop if I were you.



Zweilous + Eviolite = Not Good? Really?

Really.
Honestly x+eviolite will probably be better on paper than it actually is.
The evolved form generally just gets more to use and this is especially true for Zweil "I Have a Pitiful Move Pool" ous. I mean I guess Zweilous gets okay bulk but nothing to do with it. No recovery, no real offensive options, he's slow and his ability kind of sucks

Grei
22nd June 2011, 5:27 AM
Really.
Honestly x+eviolite will probably be better on paper than it actually is.
The evolved form generally just gets more to use and this is especially true for Zweil "I Have a Pitiful Move Pool" ous. I mean I guess Zweilous gets okay bulk but nothing to do with it. No recovery, no real offensive options, he's slow and his ability kind of sucks

Huh. I never would have guessed that, but then again, I have never really payed attention to the Deino line. I only just recently learned that Hydreigon has a better Sp. Atk than Atk.

Nonetheless, I like Eviolite. It's good for Pokemon like Larvesta that take forever to evolve, and it at least makes it easier to use Pokemon that you don't want to evolve... in-game.

VolcaronaZero
22nd June 2011, 6:34 AM
Anyone have an idea why people put shiny Lv.100's on the GTS for Zekroms/Reshirams under Lv. 9? Taunting or just showing off?

I have the greatest urge to just hack a ton of Lv. 1 Zekroms and Reshirams, lol

Shine
22nd June 2011, 7:32 AM
I have the greatest urge to just hack a ton of Lv. 1 Zekroms and Reshirams, lol

from what I've heard you can't trade them on the GTS, the GTS easily recognized them as hacks and prevent you from trading them away.

Nakashima
22nd June 2011, 8:00 AM
from what I've heard you can't trade them on the GTS, the GTS easily recognized them as hacks and prevent you from trading them away.

So why cant the GTS be smart enough to not allow them to be asked for either? The system as it is is just rather silly =/

VolcaronaZero
22nd June 2011, 8:16 AM
from what I've heard you can't trade them on the GTS, the GTS easily recognized them as hacks and prevent you from trading them away.


I just got a hacked Charizard for a legit Zapdos....

I wish they gave more into, I think it would be better to show the Pokeball and location.

DarumakkaImposter
22nd June 2011, 9:53 AM
How do you even say Zweilous ? Is it liek, Zwee-lous?

King Lawliet
22nd June 2011, 1:00 PM
Urgh, I hate Evolite because people think they can put it on any unevolved Pokémon and call it a day and think it's a good set. Just because it works on Porygon2 and Chansey doesn't mean it works for everybody.

Chairman
22nd June 2011, 1:12 PM
When I think of average, I always think about the most common.

But that average is the median of the scores, or in this case the usage of pokemon. Looking at this statisticly, what your thinking of is the mode of the data, which is the most common scores, therefore by your logic the most common would be OU, as there supposedly used the most, but thats not always the case. I'm not sure if it's possible to even have an average of pokemon usuage, unless this whole reply is misinformed and im making myself look like an idiot..... :P

SasakiThePikachu
22nd June 2011, 1:24 PM
Huh. I never would have guessed that, but then again, I have never really payed attention to the Deino line. I only just recently learned that Hydreigon has a better Sp. Atk than Atk.

Nonetheless, I like Eviolite. It's good for Pokemon like Larvesta that take forever to evolve, and it at least makes it easier to use Pokemon that you don't want to evolve... in-game.

Having raised a Hydreigon from an egg and attempted using the eviolite on him, no, it doesn't help. Part of the biggest pain in the butt about the Deino and Larvesta lines is, esp if you happen to have a sp atk boosting nature, the little gits specialise in atk right up until they evolve...which takes most of the game because they evolve incredibly late. Until then their sp atk is stupidly puny, despite any nature advantage, and they only really come into their own for both offensive and defensive power when they evolve. The eviolite helped my Larvesta some, but my Deino/Zweilous just plain sucked in battle until he evolved and and his movepool/stats exploded.

Imposter - the Deino line is pronounced the way you would pronounce german numbers, so Zweilous is pronounced Zvy-luss :)

Geekachu
22nd June 2011, 1:31 PM
Anyone have an idea why people put shiny Lv.100's on the GTS for Zekroms/Reshirams under Lv. 9? Taunting or just showing off?

Both probably. It's extremely annoying. I wish I could hack and then proceed to trade them on the GTS, just to return the annoyance


So why cant the GTS be smart enough to not allow them to be asked for either? The system as it is is just rather silly =/

I know I wish they could put a filter that detects impossible Pokemon. It would be complex and quite difficult to make, however it would stop the GTS being cluttered with all these annoying requests


How do you even say Zweilous ? Is it liek, Zwee-lous?

Zv-eye-luss/loss

I really love their names :D

NeohopeSTF
22nd June 2011, 4:25 PM
I like it in the GTS they have a shiny and want a diagla lv.1

rocky505
22nd June 2011, 4:27 PM
I like it in the GTS they have a shiny and want a diagla lv.1 That's possible if you have a Dialga from HGSS using the Arceus event.

NeohopeSTF
22nd June 2011, 4:32 PM
That's possible if you have a Dialga from HGSS using the Arceus event.
Exactly


If shuckle had an evo then you could put evolite on it would it be banned?

Shine
22nd June 2011, 4:38 PM
So why cant the GTS be smart enough to not allow them to be asked for either? The system as it is is just rather silly =/

yes, it is silly - actually, it's not just silly, it's stupid.
Not sure why Game Freak still haven't address a problem that is already occuring ever since Gen 4, though.



I just got a hacked Charizard for a legit Zapdos....


well I was talking about the lv 1 Zekrom & Reshiram.

King Lawliet
22nd June 2011, 8:14 PM
If shuckle had an evo then you could put evolite on it would it be banned?
Probably not, what would it even be able to do anyway? It's still slow and has an HP stat of 20.

Grei
22nd June 2011, 8:29 PM
Probably not, what would it even be able to do anyway? It's still slow and has an HP stat of 20.

As it is, Shuckle is an incredibly annoying tank. It's a terrific staller when its massively-high Defense stats are EV trained, to where its HP and speed really don't matter too much.

If Shuckle had an evolution and gained the use of Eviolite, that's a 50% increase to defensive stats that are already naturally higher than any other Pokemon's. Think of an Impish Shuckle with 255 EVs in Defense and Sp. Def to boost its 230 base Defense and Sp. Def stats, holding an Eviolite, which would boost both of its Defenses by 50%.

Now, the EVs wouldn't need to be spread like that, but you get my point. Shuckle would be the most annoying Pokemon in a Sandstorm if it had an evolution.

King Lawliet
22nd June 2011, 9:39 PM
Enough to get it banned though?

Grei
22nd June 2011, 10:30 PM
Enough to get it banned though?

Maybe. It'd definitely get used more than it was in the 4th Gen (NU), and if it was used too much that it upset the balance of the metagame, it could certainly be banned.

R_N
22nd June 2011, 11:00 PM
As it is, Shuckle is an incredibly annoying tank. It's a terrific staller when its massively-high Defense stats are EV trained, to where its HP and speed really don't matter too much.

If Shuckle had an evolution and gained the use of Eviolite, that's a 50% increase to defensive stats that are already naturally higher than any other Pokemon's. Think of an Impish Shuckle with 255 EVs in Defense and Sp. Def to boost its 230 base Defense and Sp. Def stats, holding an Eviolite, which would boost both of its Defenses by 50%.

Now, the EVs wouldn't need to be spread like that, but you get my point. Shuckle would be the most annoying Pokemon in a Sandstorm if it had an evolution.
For reference, a max special/defense shuckle reaches 614 with the other non-boosted defense reaching probably somewhere in the upper 500s.

If it got access to Eviolite, suddenly it has the potential to reach 927 in either defense. That's not considering Sandstorm Special defense boosts or Withdraw

So. Uh. Yeah, I don't think Shuckle is ever getting an evolution.

MetalFlygon08
23rd June 2011, 2:10 AM
Eviolite's exsistance pretty much neutered any chance of certain Pokemon getting Evolutions

(Mainly things like Skarmory, Lapras, Foretress, etc.)

Mr.Munchlax
23rd June 2011, 2:16 AM
I beat the main game on my White version last month. I haven't faced Alder yet but I feel like I want to restart it for a few reasons:

* Now that I've played it once & I want to try catching & using other pokemon now that the games have been out for a while & I now know my way around the Unova pokedex.

* I wanted to play this game not worrying about genders, abilities, EVs, pre planning teams etc. & just play it as if I were playing Red & Blue, but when I was 3/4 of the way done with the game, I lost sight of it & started worrying about that stuff again.

* Now that the Dream World's up, I want to try to catch a non-Unova pokemon early on in the game

* I went WAY too capture happy in my White game & have more pokemon than I can train with



However, there are 2 things I'm worried about so I'm not sure if I should restart my game:

1. I don't know if my Dream World account will get messed up

2. I have a shiny Gigalith



I have a Black game so I can get someone to transfer my Gigalith there until I beat my White game, but does anyone think it would be ok to restart it?

R_N
23rd June 2011, 2:18 AM
Eviolite's exsistance pretty much neutered any chance of certain Pokemon getting Evolutions

(Mainly things like Skarmory, Lapras, Foretress, etc.)

Not really, thinking on it. Shuckle is kind of an extreme case, for one. Secondly, there's always the chance an evolution would get something to make it worth while. More speed, more attacking power (very important), type change, different moves whatever. Of course, Foretress & Skarmory don't really need an evolution that badly but hey Dusknoir and all.

The third thing is just plain neutering Eviolite. It may increase by 50% now, but that's not saying it could have only 25% later on.

MetalFlygon08
23rd June 2011, 2:51 AM
iirc originally it was thought to give a 50% boost to all baby and base stage pokemon, 25% toall stage 1, and 0% to all stage 2, before people actually looked into it.

PoliSWAG
23rd June 2011, 4:33 PM
Who else thinks Psuedo Legendaries are OU.

rocky505
23rd June 2011, 4:38 PM
Who else thinks Psuedo Legendaries are OU. Garchomp isn't. It's beyond OU.

PoliSWAG
23rd June 2011, 4:41 PM
Garchomp isn't. It's beyond OU.

Garchomp is ugly. Then again all the P-Legendaries are. I only have all of them to gather exp for my low lv pokemon.

rocky505
23rd June 2011, 4:47 PM
Ugly? You want ugly look at nosepass *Preparesforbashing* Dragonite seems too friendly looking, Tyranitar is awesome looking and so is Salamence. I never liked Garchomp but Hydreigon is epic. Three heads are better than one, or two.

Geekachu
23rd June 2011, 4:49 PM
Garchomp is ugly. Then again all the P-Legendaries are.

I personally think that Tyranitar and Hydreigon are pretty awesome designs. Garchomp's good too.

PoliSWAG
23rd June 2011, 4:53 PM
Ugly? You want ugly look at nosepass *Preparesforbashing* Dragonite seems too friendly looking, Tyranitar is awesome looking and so is Salamence. I never liked Garchomp but Hydreigon is epic. Three heads are better than one, or two.

Tyranitar is passable but it has that ugly green color to it. I personally think the Shiny version should've been its original color simply because it suits Tyranitar much more. Salamence can have an awesome moveset so yeah. And I think my lv 80 Hydreigon is rotting in my pc.

Hilijix
23rd June 2011, 4:53 PM
Garchomp is ugly. Then again all the P-Legendaries are.

I don't see anything ugly in Salamence or Hydreigon. The psuedo-legendaries are all neatly designed in my opinion. I heard from an interview that Hydreigon was going to be a cyborg-dragon or something at one point.

Blackjack the Titan
23rd June 2011, 4:54 PM
Garchomp isn't. It's beyond OU.

Which Poke's are uber then?

Nosepass is kinda cute. Genetics jus cursed it with a big nose.
Hydreigon's design IS awesome!

Is Hydreigob uber? I wouldn't think so, but I need clarification.

rocky505
23rd June 2011, 4:56 PM
Garchomp I believe is the only psuedo that is Uber.

King Lawliet
23rd June 2011, 4:58 PM
Metagross is best looking one for me, after that it would be Hydreigon. Salamence just looks like a generic dragon, Garchomp is awkward, Dragonite is pretty cool but that could just be because of the anime appearance for me and Tyranitar is just meh

はるひ
23rd June 2011, 4:59 PM
Garchomp is ugly. Then again all the P-Legendaries are. I only have all of them to gather exp for my low lv pokemon.

I think Hydreigon is the cutest of the PLs. How can anyone deny that face?

rocky505
23rd June 2011, 5:00 PM
lol I forgot about Metagross xD he is good though.

NeohopeSTF
23rd June 2011, 5:00 PM
Metagross is one of the best pokes out there i think.

Chibi_Muffin
23rd June 2011, 5:03 PM
My favourite Psuedolegend is Hydreigon for some reason. Mainly because I somehow envision mine to be like an overexcited puppy. Yes. That's right. PUPPY HYDRA. ^_^

Garchomp is my least favourite. I don't hate the thing, I just don't find it as good as the rest.

General Nonsense
23rd June 2011, 6:01 PM
I think Hydreigon is the cutest of the PLs. How can anyone deny that face?

It looks like it wants to rip my head off O_o

Don't get me wrong, I love Hydreigon, but I'd consider it more bad*** than cute.

R_N
23rd June 2011, 7:36 PM
I don't see anything ugly in Salamence or Hydreigon. The psuedo-legendaries are all neatly designed in my opinion. I heard from an interview that Hydreigon was going to be a cyborg-dragon or something at one point.

That's just bulbapedia getting carried away. They were originally based around tanks (you can see remnants of that in the pink "Treads" in Zweilous & Hydregion), but they never said they were some weird tank/dragon cybernetic hybrid.

Geekachu
23rd June 2011, 7:37 PM
Hydreigon doesn't have three heads, it has two sock puppets, which are it's best friends.

Insanity aside I was interested to read this:


Originally, according to interviews with Sugimori in Nintendo Dream, Hydreigon and its pre-evolutions were intended to be cybernetic dragons incorporating aspects of tanks within their bodies before being redesigned around the theme of Yamata no Orochi. The tank track-like markings on Hydreigon's body are a remnant of this design.

I would've loved to have seen the original cybernetic, tank dragon concept :D

Edit... damn ninja'd

Typhlosionvsworld
23rd June 2011, 7:40 PM
Am I the only one who thinks Zebstrika pwns?

Geekachu
23rd June 2011, 7:54 PM
Am I the only one who thinks Zebstrika pwns?

It's got a quite cool design. I used one towards the start of my White playthrough where it defeated Elesa's Zebstrika

PoliSWAG
23rd June 2011, 8:08 PM
Hydreigon doesn't have three heads, it has two sock puppets, which are it's best friends.

Insanity aside I was interested to read this:



I would've loved to have seen the original cybernetic, tank dragon concept :D

Edit... damn ninja'd

This isn't Yugioh.

Typhlosionvsworld
23rd June 2011, 8:10 PM
It's got a quite cool design. I used one towards the start of my White playthrough where it defeated Elesa's Zebstrika

Mine beat hers as a Blitzle

DazedMinezumi
23rd June 2011, 8:15 PM
So...... Different topic. (For the next part, there is a video in Japaneese which I can't translate, but there were English captions which I'm just assuming is what he said. Not 100% sure this is real.)
Yesterday in an interview with a GameFreak employee, he revealed that they had to leave a Pokemon out of Black and White. He said it was Fire/Dark Typed and found in Victory Road, but due to the presence of Kuitmaru(Heatmor, me thinks) they were going to move it to a different area but did not have time. It is still in the coding so he said if they can get it out in the next game (YAY! If this is a real translation, that means his tounge must've slipped and said there will be a next game.) then it will still be tradeable to Black and White. He said this is the second time they've had difficulty with this Pokemon after being intended to be included in Ruby/Sapphire. He did not say what problems it faced then.

In later questions, he revealed that Munna/Musharna have been created for years(already ready for previous games) along with mentioning Stunfisk alongside Barboach(Evolution?) and Tabunne(Audino) through a Ranger Event in Diamond/Pearl



WOW!!!! I hope it's real. I'm pretty sure it is............ I'll try to find someone to translate.....

NeohopeSTF
23rd June 2011, 8:17 PM
So...... Different topic. (For the next part, there is a video in Japaneese which I can't translate, but there were English captions which I'm just assuming is what he said. Not 100% sure this is real.)
Yesterday in an interview with a GameFreak employee, he revealed that they had to leave a Pokemon out of Black and White. He said it was Fire/Dark Typed and found in Victory Road, but due to the presence of Kuitmaru(Heatmor, me thinks) they were going to move it to a different area but did not have time. It is still in the coding so he said if they can get it out in the next game (YAY! If this is a real translation, that means his tounge must've slipped and said there will be a next game.) then it will still be tradeable to Black and White. He said this is the second time they've had difficulty with this Pokemon after being intended to be included in Ruby/Sapphire. He did not say what problems it faced then.

In later questions, he revealed that Munna/Musharna have been created for years(already ready for previous games) along with mentioning Stunfisk alongside Barboach(Evolution?) and Tabunne(Audino) through a Ranger Event in Diamond/Pearl



WOW!!!! I hope it's real. I'm pretty sure it is............ I'll try to find someone to translate.....
Whoa thats really cool i hope its true

R_N
23rd June 2011, 8:19 PM
Okay you're going to need to post the video here, because I find that incredibly hard to believe considering we've gone through the coding with a fine-tooth comb and not a single trace of the supposed Fire/Dark Pokemon is there.

Typhlosionvsworld
23rd June 2011, 8:21 PM
So...... Different topic. (For the next part, there is a video in Japaneese which I can't translate, but there were English captions which I'm just assuming is what he said. Not 100% sure this is real.)
Yesterday in an interview with a GameFreak employee, he revealed that they had to leave a Pokemon out of Black and White. He said it was Fire/Dark Typed and found in Victory Road, but due to the presence of Kuitmaru(Heatmor, me thinks) they were going to move it to a different area but did not have time. It is still in the coding so he said if they can get it out in the next game (YAY! If this is a real translation, that means his tounge must've slipped and said there will be a next game.) then it will still be tradeable to Black and White. He said this is the second time they've had difficulty with this Pokemon after being intended to be included in Ruby/Sapphire. He did not say what problems it faced then.

In later questions, he revealed that Munna/Musharna have been created for years(already ready for previous games) along with mentioning Stunfisk alongside Barboach(Evolution?) and Tabunne(Audino) through a Ranger Event in Diamond/Pearl



WOW!!!! I hope it's real. I'm pretty sure it is............ I'll try to find someone to translate.....

Sounds fishy. Very Fishy.

Geekachu
23rd June 2011, 8:25 PM
This isn't Yugioh.

Is this meant to serve a purpose or something?


It is still in the coding

But they managed to find Keldeo, Genesect and Melotta in the coding, as well as Kyurem's two hidden moves. I doubt that there's anything they haven't found :/

The existence of the Pokemon, albeit not in the game, is possible though. They could release it next gen similar to Gastrodon and Gen III

Blackjack the Titan
23rd June 2011, 8:35 PM
My favourite Psuedolegend is Hydreigon for some reason. Mainly because I somehow envision mine to be like an overexcited puppy. Yes. That's right. PUPPY HYDRA. ^_^

Garchomp is my least favourite. I don't hate the thing, I just don't find it as good as the rest.

Hydreigon Fan!!!!
A Hydreigon with an Adamant nature could be the best of Hydreigons!

LyreBirdGirl
23rd June 2011, 8:49 PM
Keldeo is one of the three deer/musketeer/dog thingies? Woa.

R_N
23rd June 2011, 8:53 PM
Is this meant to serve a purpose or something?



But they managed to find Keldeo, Genesect and Melotta in the coding, as well as Kyurem's two hidden moves. I doubt that there's anything they haven't found :/

The existence of the Pokemon, albeit not in the game, is possible though. They could release it next gen similar to Gastrodon and Gen III

Right, I'm sure there's several Pokemon that got to at least the final design stage before being axed. They probably have hundreds of possible unused designs just waiting to be used.

Also something I just remembered: Munna couldn't have been made for years because it was specifically designed after Musharna had which itself was fairly recent.

rocky505
23rd June 2011, 10:31 PM
Wasn't the united tower the last thing they found in the coding?

Geekachu
23rd June 2011, 10:36 PM
Also something I just remembered: Munna couldn't have been made for years because it was specifically designed after Musharna had which itself was fairly recent.

I know, I also fail to believe such theories that Munna was foreshadowed in the 1st Gen or whatever. However I thought they could've been saving them and the concept until they possessed the technology for Dream World and connections, but I still doubt it.

I heard in interviews that Gen V production began halfway through Gen IV, and Munna and Musharna were most probably not made before then.


Wasn't the united tower the last thing they found in the coding?

Something like that

Eldtama
23rd June 2011, 10:51 PM
Hi im new to the forums. I don't understand how you put in all your pictures and stuff. But i will figure it out soon. :3

DazedMinezumi
23rd June 2011, 10:57 PM
Okay you're going to need to post the video here, because I find that incredibly hard to believe considering we've gone through the coding with a fine-tooth comb and not a single trace of the supposed Fire/Dark Pokemon is there.

K, I'll find the video. Got it on my iPhone so I'll try to find a link there. But it does sound very stunfisky. I kinda doubt it but I hope it's true. And also there's no way of telling who designed what when. It's just a matter of when it was put on paper and in the games.

R_N
23rd June 2011, 11:03 PM
K, I'll find the video. Got it on my iPhone so I'll try to find a link there. But it does sound very stunfisky. I kinda doubt it but I hope it's true. And also there's no way of telling who designed what when. It's just a matter of when it was put on paper and in the games.

Plenty of interviews have given at least a little indication of when they were designed at what points in development.

Dattebayo
23rd June 2011, 11:15 PM
If such a Pokemon existed, then Houndoom will finally not be alone, and we'll have something Grimsely will use instead of Liepard (or Scrafty, which does not suit him in terms of the origins of their designs).

MasterPika
23rd June 2011, 11:31 PM
do you guys think oshawott and dewott can walk on four legs like Samurott?

Grei
23rd June 2011, 11:44 PM
It would be SO COOL if there was an "undiscovered" Pokemon. This is probably just trolling or a mis-translation, since the coding has been scoured and nothing was found, but the idea is exciting nonetheless.

It kind of makes me want for the 6th Gen to feature something like DP's end-of-the-dex Pokemon, where there are 20-something Pokemon that are simply in the game's coding, without location data, to be added in the 3rd version.

Actually... this idea of there being "hidden Pokemon" would be a smart route for GameFreak to take in the future. I'm surprised GameFreak hasn't done this already, actually. It'd give the 3rd version that much more of a reason to be bought, because it would feature 20-something "brand new" Pokemon.

... anyway. Off-topicness aside...


Keldeo is one of the three deer/musketeer/dog thingies? Woa.

Yup.


do you guys think oshawott and dewott can walk on four legs like Samurott?

Why not? Otters are capable of walking on four legs.

Endless
23rd June 2011, 11:55 PM
It would be SO COOL if there was an "undiscovered" Pokemon. This is probably just trolling or a mis-translation, since the coding has been scoured and nothing was found, but the idea is exciting nonetheless.

It kind of makes me want for the 6th Gen to feature something like DP's end-of-the-dex Pokemon, where there are 20-something Pokemon that are simply in the game's coding, without location data, to be added in the 3rd version.

Actually... this idea of there being "hidden Pokemon" would be a smart route for GameFreak to take in the future. I'm surprised GameFreak hasn't done this already, actually. It'd give the 3rd version that much more of a reason to be bought, because it would feature 20-something "brand new" Pokemon.

... anyway. Off-topicness aside...



Yup.



Why not? Otters are capable of walking on four legs.
I don't like this idea actually.

The first problem is that they would not be new as they would have been found in earlier codings. That would lead to an incredible boring pre-game with unmasking of pokemon we already know about. My main reason is something else, it's the hackers. They will try to do get them earlier and will probably trade them to so it would all be a mess. I have seen people with Genesect and the like so I know it's going to happen.

However I'm optimistic to add them only in the 3rd game/Remake. Just like new formes. Surely you couldn't send them over to old games and you couldn't battle with them against old games. However it would be so much more of a suprise and I love when they uncover brand new pokemon. And it would bring GF/Nintendo more money as people would have to buy the new games to play with the new pokes.

TheMaster327
24th June 2011, 12:14 AM
When Keldeo/Meloetta/Genosect are released as events, will they be Shiny checked? I hope not, as I'd like shiny Genosect...

Lorde
24th June 2011, 12:16 AM
When Keldeo/Meloetta/Genosect are released as events, will they be Shiny checked?

If they're distributed via Wonder Cards, then they probably won't be Shiny. If they receive a location in a future game, then they might be Shiny, although I'm not 100% sure. That whole Shiny check thing on Reshiram/Zekrom/Victini has me all confused about what can be Shiny and what can't be Shiny.

Grei
24th June 2011, 12:24 AM
I don't like this idea actually.

The first problem is that they would not be new as they would have been found in earlier codings. That would lead to an incredible boring pre-game with unmasking of pokemon we already know about. My main reason is something else, it's the hackers. They will try to do get them earlier and will probably trade them to so it would all be a mess. I have seen people with Genesect and the like so I know it's going to happen.

With this line of thinking, event Pokemon shouldn't be done either, since we know about them and because hackers can get them early. :/

Thing is, though, for players who play fair, being able to get these new Pokemon would make getting the 3rd game that much more worth it. In the metagame, these Pokemon would be banned, just like the 5th Gen Pokemon with Dream World abilities (minus Darmanitan and Musharna).


However I'm optimistic to add them only in the 3rd game/Remake. Just like new formes. Surely you couldn't send them over to old games and you couldn't battle with them against old games. However it would be so much more of a suprise and I love when they uncover brand new pokemon. And it would bring GF/Nintendo more money as people would have to buy the new games to play with the new pokes.

Why wouldn't you? They would exist in the coding of the first two games so that the 3rd game would be compatible with the first two. That would be the point--add in the coding for these hidden Pokemon without giving them location data. The third game would have location data, so you could catch them in the third game and trade them over to the first two games.

And anyway, if it's in the coding but not in normal gameplay, then GameFreak has done all they can to avoid the average player from knowing about it. You can't complain that the hidden Pokemon wouldn't be a surprise when you would be the one who spoiled it for yourself by reading coverage of the game.

TheMaster327
24th June 2011, 12:30 AM
If they're distributed via Wonder Cards, then they probably won't be Shiny. If they receive a location in a future game, then they might be Shiny, although I'm not 100% sure. That whole Shiny check thing on Reshiram/Zekrom/Victini has me all confused about what can be Shiny and what can't be Shiny.

I agree... It's all very confusing... I hope they come out via Wi-Fi like Victini. It's much more convenient for us not having to travel a long way to get them!

Geekachu
24th June 2011, 12:39 AM
The first problem is that they would not be new as they would have been found in earlier codings. That would lead to an incredible boring pre-game with unmasking of pokemon we already know about.

Yes, but to the casual gamer they aren't. Not everyone buys their copy of Black/White and takes them home to scour the coding, nor are all Pokemon fans big visitors of fansites. I mean, if I didn't visit Serebii often I wouldn't have a clue that Keldeo, Melotta and Genesect existed.

I think it's an interesting idea.

Endless
24th June 2011, 12:43 AM
With this line of thinking, event Pokemon shouldn't be done either, since we know about them and because hackers can get them early. :/
But they might release some of the event before a new game is out, so atleast the firstcoming events have to be in the game coding.


Thing is, though, for players who play fair, being able to get these new Pokemon would make getting the 3rd game that much more worth it. In the metagame, these Pokemon would be banned, just like the 5th Gen Pokemon with Dream World abilities (minus Darmanitan and Musharna).

Of course it would make the third game more exciting. I never said anything about that.


Why wouldn't you? They would exist in the coding of the first two games so that the 3rd game would be compatible with the first two. That would be the point--add in the coding for these hidden Pokemon without giving them location data. The third game would have location data, so you could catch them in the third game and trade them over to the first two games.

And anyway, if it's in the coding but not in normal gameplay, then GameFreak has done all they can to avoid the average player from knowing about it. You can't complain that the hidden Pokemon wouldn't be a surprise when you would be the one who spoiled it for yourself by reading coverage of the game.

I just don't get why we need them in the old games coding. It would be an even bigger urge to get the third game if you only could get the new pokemon there and not be able to trade them "back". To be honest, I don't get why we need to have the possibilty to send them back to an older game. Just let them be in the new games. The games go forewards not backwards. Giratina Origin forme was only obtainable from Pt and onwards. I can't remember that anybody complained that they couldn't send it back to DP(of course some complained, but not the mojority). So why can't we do the same with some new pokemon?

I know it's my fault for spoiling myself. But all on-line third-party pokedexes have them listed so it is kind of hard to go on a pokemon based site without getting spoiled, even if you tried.


Yes, but to the casual gamer they aren't. Not everyone buys their copy of Black/White and takes them home to scour the coding, nor are all Pokemon fans big visitors of fansites. I mean, if I didn't visit Serebii often I wouldn't have a clue that Keldeo, Melotta and Genesect existed.

I think it's an interesting idea.
I know it is many fans that don't know about them, but as soon as you join the internet it is very easy to not get spoiled, espescially if you don't know what to look out for.

R_N
24th June 2011, 12:52 AM
Connection is the biggest "Thing" about the Pokemon games. Completely cutting off an entire Pokemon would just be taboo and would unfairly screw over other people.

Forms are different thing. First off, it's not an entirely new Pokemon. DP players could still get Giratina & Rotom normally, they could still get Shaymin from events. They could still trade and interact with their Platinum/HGSS friends. ANd, indeed, they could battle with them. DP had little flags in the coding for Giratina, Shaymin, & Rotom so that when they got new forms later on DP people could fight them safely.

An all new Pokemon doesn't have that luxury. It would go the way of Spiky Eared Pichu: unable to be traded, unable to battle other People, unable to be transferred to a future game (also unable to evolve but that's a Pichu-centric problem).
Completely and entirely useless until next generation.

Endless
24th June 2011, 1:16 AM
Connection is the biggest "Thing" about the Pokemon games. Completely cutting off an entire Pokemon would just be taboo and would unfairly screw over other people.

Forms are different thing. First off, it's not an entirely new Pokemon. DP players could still get Giratina & Rotom normally, they could still get Shaymin from events. They could still trade and interact with their Platinum/HGSS friends. ANd, indeed, they could battle with them. DP had little flags in the coding for Giratina, Shaymin, & Rotom so that when they got new forms later on DP people could fight them safely.

An all new Pokemon doesn't have that luxury. It would go the way of Spiky Eared Pichu: unable to be traded, unable to battle other People, unable to be transferred to a future game (also unable to evolve but that's a Pichu-centric problem).
Completely and entirely useless until next generation.
I am aware that connection is important, maybe even the most important thing. However I don't get why it would be so important for the people with old games to get new pokemon they never were promised. They wouldn't miss anything they payed for.

And you couldn't use Giratina-O and friends over Wi-Fi, just wireless. This isn't really important, but Oaks Letter was actually only given out to Platinium over Wi-Fi. Dp users didn't get anything.

And why couldn't they just make a new battle style, like fancy cup and so on. In this new style only third game users could play and all new pokemon was allowed. This new pokemon would be able to be traded and battle other people with the third game, just not people with old games.

Grei
24th June 2011, 2:00 AM
I am aware that connection is important, maybe even the most important thing. However I don't get why it would be so important for the people with old games to get new pokemon they never were promised. They wouldn't miss anything they payed for.

It's like version exclusives. You would buy the 3rd version to be able to get Pokemon on the first two versions. Maybe in the first two versions, you wouldn't need those Pokemon to complete the regional dex, but you would for the national dex; or, the dex would automatically expand when one of those hidden Pokemon were traded there.

To put hidden Pokemon into a 3rd version and not allow them to be in the original pair would destroy the connectivity, because suddenly, if a 3rd version user wants to battle a user of the original pair, they have to be limited to what the original pair can handle.

This kind of mentality is like putting only Unova Pokemon into Black and White's coding, since they weren't promised Kanto or Johto or Hoenn or Sinnoh Pokemon in their game.

MetalFlygon08
24th June 2011, 4:05 AM
Mabye the "Dark/Fire" mystery pokemon is a new form now?

(ALT. Zen mode ftw)

BCVM22
24th June 2011, 6:41 AM
I agree... It's all very confusing... I hope they come out via Wi-Fi like Victini. It's much more convenient for us not having to travel a long way to get them!

Assuming they're all movie-related events (as the upcoming Victini event is), they won't, at least not at first. Certainly people know this by now.


Giratina Origin forme was only obtainable from Pt and onwards.

Different forme. Not a different critter. Big difference.

MetalFlygon08
24th June 2011, 7:04 AM
Here's an interesting tidbit I just discovered.

(Take in mind I'm working on a r0m hack of white)

Zen Mode Darmanitan can actually be battled in the wild at full health.

ZMD actually acts like a different Pokemon all together, and Zen Mode just switches between the 2 Darmanitans.

Here's how it went. (In Desert Resort mind you, with Random Encounter ZMD)

a Wild Zen Mode Darmanitan appeared (In Zen Mode from the start), I protect 1st turn. As soon as ZMD takes damage from the sandstorm it reverts back to normal Darmanitan, and stayed that way, though I accidentally KO'ed it before knocking it down below 1/2 to see if Zen Mode would reactivate.

The statue Darmanitan are scripted to appear as Darmanitan-Normal with Zen Mode ability, which iirc, is seperate from ZMD in the games data.

So in short, they appear to be 2 seperate Pokemon, whose Name is the same in data, and the ability Zen Mode just switches between the 2 pokemon. The proof is in the sprite data. All Alt. Form Sprites are kept in a different .narc file than the Normal Pokemon Sprites. ZMD is in the same .narc as the normal Pokemon, right after Darmanitan-Normal iirc.

With that in mind, by theory, Zen Mode should work on any Pokemon. I plan to give it to a Darumaku. If my theory is correct, Zen mode should switch it to ZMD, and then to Darmanitan-Normal.

R_N
24th June 2011, 7:07 AM
It works that way with any different form. All the rotoms, deoxys, even blue stripe Basculin!

MetalFlygon08
24th June 2011, 7:10 AM
which is strange, iirc in HGSSPlat. you couldn't force Rotom Alt. forms to happen as Random encounters, though they could be scripted as OW interaction battles, since they had index numbers.

PoliSWAG
24th June 2011, 4:47 PM
Anyone else think Pidgeotto looks better than Pidgeot?

Moneyy
24th June 2011, 5:02 PM
Anyone else think Pidgeotto looks better than Pidgeot?

No. But that was random, and not about new Pokemon.

Cofagrigus should have been Ghost/Rock, but they probably didn't do that because another Pokemon was already ghost/rock in this gen.

Lorde
24th June 2011, 5:04 PM
Cofagrigus should have been Ghost/Rock, but they probably didn't do that because another Pokemon was already ghost/rock in this gen.

Which Pokemon was Ghost/Rock? If you're talking about Golett and Golurk, they're Ground/Ghost.

Dattebayo
24th June 2011, 5:13 PM
But giving Cofagrigus Ghost/Rock grants him more weaknesses, which means less use unless used in Sandstorm teams.

Geekachu
24th June 2011, 5:36 PM
Which Pokemon was Ghost/Rock? If you're talking about Golett and Golurk, they're Ground/Ghost.

On the subject of these two, I like their unexpected typing but it would've been cooler if they were Ghost/Steel

NeohopeSTF
24th June 2011, 5:37 PM
its should have bean Ghost/FLying so Fly becomes a stab move. for Golurk

Lorde
24th June 2011, 5:43 PM
On the subject of these two, I like their unexpected typing but it would've been cooler if they were Ghost/Steel

I've heard people talk about that before. I think I remember reading that they were based on actual golems, so their type combination makes a lot of sense. Still, I can see why people would say that they should've been Steel-type Pokemon. They do look pretty robotic.

Grei
24th June 2011, 6:03 PM
But giving Cofagrigus Ghost/Rock grants him more weaknesses, which means less use unless used in Sandstorm teams.

However, GameFreak does not make Pokemon with Smogon in mind, so this would not matter at all

R_N
24th June 2011, 7:34 PM
However, GameFreak does not make Pokemon with Smogon in mind, so this would not matter at all

Considering he's the physically defensive ghost, Rock typing would suit him even more.
I wonder what all this would do for him...
Resists:
Fire
Poison (x4 resist, but no one uses poison attacks)
Flying
Bug
Normal (Immune)
Fighting (Immune)

Weak to:
Water
Grass
Ground (Ouch)
Ghost
Dark
Steel

Yeesh, sucks for whoever gets the Ghost/Rock typing.

NeohopeSTF
24th June 2011, 7:38 PM
A Ghost Rock sounds awesome. but i would want it be a New pokemon not a 5th gen
Also i can't wait for that Fire Dark Pokemon.

R_N
24th June 2011, 7:50 PM
A Ghost Rock sounds awesome. but i would want it be a New pokemon not a 5th gen
Also i can't wait for that Fire Dark Pokemon.

At this point it is almost assuredly fake.
Just have to settle for Houndoom~

Moneyy
24th June 2011, 8:00 PM
Which Pokemon was Ghost/Rock? If you're talking about Golett and Golurk, they're Ground/Ghost.

Oh yeah. I thought they were ghost/rock.

NeohopeSTF
24th June 2011, 8:05 PM
At this point it is almost assuredly fake.
Just have to settle for Houndoom~
Well atleast i got a Houndoom.

Moneyy
24th June 2011, 8:24 PM
Fire/Dark type?

Grei
24th June 2011, 8:39 PM
Considering he's the physically defensive ghost, Rock typing would suit him even more.

I know. I was pointing out that competitive play generally doesn't factor into designing Pokemon.


I wonder what all this would do for him...
Resists:
Fire
Poison (x4 resist, but no one uses poison attacks)
Flying
Bug
Normal (Immune)
Fighting (Immune)

Weak to:
Water
Grass
Ground (Ouch)
Ghost
Dark
Steel

Yeesh, sucks for whoever gets the Ghost/Rock typing.

Luckily, a ghost rock doesn't make much sense in anything other than sarcophagus.

R_N
24th June 2011, 8:44 PM
Well, non-clay Golems would also work. Maybe some haunted boulders. LIVING PYRAMIDS?!

Or something less obvious, gamefreak is pretty good at merging ideas.

Grei
24th June 2011, 8:55 PM
Well, non-clay Golems would also work. Maybe some haunted boulders. LIVING PYRAMIDS?!

I dunno about haunted boulders. I mean... that implies that the boulder died. Or that a spirit possessed a... a rock.


Or something less obvious, gamefreak is pretty good at merging ideas.

True. I hope, though, that any Ghost/Rock Pokemon has Levitate, Herbivore, Water Absorb, or something to make it not a punching bag. Maybe it can be an evolution for Shuckle and have insane defenses.

R_N
24th June 2011, 9:00 PM
I dunno about haunted boulders. I mean... that implies that the boulder died. Or that a spirit possessed a... a rock.




If Okami/den has taught me anything it's that demons can and will posses anything

There's like a dozen top-based enemies I swear. And several boulders

Grei
24th June 2011, 9:08 PM
If Okami/den has taught me anything it's that demons can and will posses anything

There's like a dozen top-based enemies I swear. And several boulders

In that case, bring on the haunted boulders!

Speaking of it (not really, but kind of), I'm surprised by Golett and Golurk. I thought they'd be epically strong, but I haven't been impressed by mine. Maybe it's the weaknesses.

PoliSWAG
24th June 2011, 9:09 PM
This region seriously lacks good ice types.

R_N
24th June 2011, 9:15 PM
In that case, bring on the haunted boulders!

Speaking of it (not really, but kind of), I'm surprised by Golett and Golurk. I thought they'd be epically strong, but I haven't been impressed by mine. Maybe it's the weaknesses.

By all means they should be strong. 124 base attack is no joke, and he's got quite the assortment of moves and a nice ability like Iron Fist.
..well his defenses aren't that great I Suppose.

Endless
24th June 2011, 9:36 PM
I dunno about haunted boulders. I mean... that implies that the boulder died. Or that a spirit possessed a... a rock.



True. I hope, though, that any Ghost/Rock Pokemon has Levitate, Herbivore, Water Absorb, or something to make it not a punching bag. Maybe it can be an evolution for Shuckle and have insane defenses.
I still like the idea of given the ghost/rock combo to a haunted fossil. Like if the fossils of Kabutops and Aerodactyl from the Kanto museum was real pokemon, they would have been perfect candidates.

Grei
24th June 2011, 9:50 PM
By all means they should be strong. 124 base attack is no joke, and he's got quite the assortment of moves and a nice ability like Iron Fist.
..well his defenses aren't that great I Suppose.

I know, right? It gets all of these great punching moves and on paper looks really good. Maybe mine has, like, 0 IVs in all areas or something, because Golurk is less of the boxer it should be and more of the punching bag, from what I've seen.

Dattebayo
26th June 2011, 1:19 AM
This region seriously lacks good ice types.

Kyurem's the only good ice type, but it's banned in Random Match Ups despite not being Uber.

Hilijix
26th June 2011, 1:44 AM
A Ghost/Rock type sounds cool, but it would have to get the move Tombstony. Anyone remember that?

AwesomeSauce117
26th June 2011, 1:48 AM
Kyurem's the only good ice type, but it's banned in Random Match Ups despite not being Uber. The others are pure ice type though. :(

aquasuicune
26th June 2011, 3:48 AM
Kyurem's the only good ice type, but it's banned in Random Match Ups despite not being Uber.

Do remember that the tiers most of us use are from Smogon and not an official source. Therefore, the easiest way for the Pokemon company (or GameFreak?) to balance the random match ups is to simply ban the endgame legendaries and event pokemon, which tend to be stronger by merit of stats alone. Smogon tiers are dependent on a certain level of knowledge which is not always found in casual gameplay.

Weavile, Mamoswine, Froslass, and especially Shell Break Cloyster also beg to differ with your argument.

Dattebayo
26th June 2011, 4:00 AM
Weavile, Mamoswine, Froslass, and especially Shell Break Cloyster also beg to differ with your argument.

We were talking about the Unova ice types, not from all gens.

CaptainCombusken
26th June 2011, 9:26 AM
It's mainly their movesets that are crippling. I agree, at least one or two should of had different types (Cryogonal as Ice/Steel would have been cool and maybe Water/Ice for Cubchoo and Beartic cos of Brine, Surf and the other water moves they have) but mainly, if they get better movesets, they will be far more usable.

For example, Beartic in particular looks pretty weak in terms of movesets. Have him able to learn at least Rock Slide and Earthquake. The elemental Punches as a level up would also be great.

Talking about movesets that suck, let's turn our eyes upon Klink and his evos. The only attacking moves they have are Electric, Steel, Normal, and Rock Smash. Their non-attacking moves aren't great either. They definitely need a better moveset.

PokemonOwn
26th June 2011, 9:36 AM
Klinklang is great in UU/NU. Gear Change, and then Gear Saucer, and then, you're off. It has a smooth animation sprite too.

R_N
26th June 2011, 10:01 AM
It's mainly their movesets that are crippling. I agree, at least one or two should of had different types (Cryogonal as Ice/Steel would have been cool and maybe Water/Ice for Cubchoo and Beartic cos of Brine, Surf and the other water moves they have) but mainly, if they get better movesets, they will be far more usable.

For example, Beartic in particular looks pretty weak in terms of movesets. Have him able to learn at least Rock Slide and Earthquake. The elemental Punches as a level up would also be great.

Talking about movesets that suck, let's turn our eyes upon Klink and his evos. The only attacking moves they have are Electric, Steel, Normal, and Rock Smash. Their non-attacking moves aren't great either. They definitely need a better moveset.
Worst part of Klinklank is that it likely won't benefit all the much from move tutors if only due to its body type. At least Beartic can get the punches off future tutors

JD
27th June 2011, 12:30 PM
Klinklank has pretty decent stats the only thing is it has a very shallow movepool they should have made the Klink line Steel/Electric or something. As for Beartic that thing well honestly... Beartic's one of the Pokemon I think that really needs an evolution in Gen VI same with Swoobat. Anyway I never noticed how weak Kyurem looks compared to Reshiram and Zekrom

http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/1/1a/646Kyurem_Dream.png

http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/thumb/1/18/644Zekrom_Dream.png/592px-644Zekrom_Dream.png

http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/thumb/4/4c/643Reshiram_Dream.png/746px-643Reshiram_Dream.png

It's kind of funny how Kyurem the third member of the Tao Trio looks so weak compared to the others and back in Sinnoh. Giratina the third member of the Creation Trio was often depicted as being dominant over Dialga and Palkia or stronger.

Geekachu
27th June 2011, 3:05 PM
It's kind of funny how Kyurem the third member of the Tao Trio looks so weak compared to the others and back in Sinnoh. Giratina the third member of the Creation Trio was often depicted as being dominant over Dialga and Palkia or stronger.

It's meant to represent the broken corpse of the original dragon. This should go in 3rd Game Speculation BUT many speculate it to recieve an 'origin forme' in the 3rd Game, in which case Zekrom and Reshiram will become Kyurem's b*tches

#1treeckofan
27th June 2011, 3:41 PM
i used klinklang in game. it killed everything but competitvely, its not the best...

SphealsFTW
27th June 2011, 5:02 PM
Klinklank has pretty decent stats the only thing is it has a very shallow movepool they should have made the Klink line Steel/Electric or something. As for Beartic that thing well honestly... Beartic's one of the Pokemon I think that really needs an evolution in Gen VI same with Swoobat. Anyway I never noticed how weak Kyurem looks compared to Reshiram and Zekrom

It's kind of funny how Kyurem the third member of the Tao Trio looks so weak compared to the others and back in Sinnoh. Giratina the third member of the Creation Trio was often depicted as being dominant over Dialga and Palkia or stronger.
I thought that it was well known by now that Kyurem (in it's current form) was purposely made to look significantly weaker than Reshiram/Zekrom.

And yeah, Klinklang sucks. Should've been a special attacker.

Blackjack the Titan
27th June 2011, 5:31 PM
i used klinklang in game. it killed everything but competitvely, its not the best...

Same here. Evolved Kilnk to Klinklang before taking on Mistralton Gym and i used it for the other in-game battles. But it's a pretty weak Pokemon for Wi-fi battles.

Awesome fusion btw!

はるひ
27th June 2011, 5:35 PM
Poor Klinklang. I was awesome when I used it against the ice gym and other trainers. It needs a better moveset

SphealsFTW
27th June 2011, 5:38 PM
Poor Klinklang. I was awesome when I used it against the ice gym and other trainers. It needs a better moveset
It's Sp.Att should be switched with it's Att. But then again, the only moves it could use would be Thunderbolt/Thunder/Charge Beam and Flash Cannon. :S.

PokemonOwn
27th June 2011, 5:38 PM
Best new cry? Klinklang. :579: is pretty awesome too. :P

RocketFire
27th June 2011, 5:40 PM
I love Quagsire, he is beastly...because I said so...and because I don't play the games...

SphealsFTW
27th June 2011, 5:44 PM
Best new cry? Klinklang. :579: is pretty awesome too. :P
I like Maractus, Crustle, Jellicent, Lampent, Chandelure, Gothitelle, and Cobalion cries.

はるひ
27th June 2011, 5:45 PM
It's Sp.Att should be switched with it's Att. But then again, the only moves it could use would be Thunderbolt/Thunder/Charge Beam and Flash Cannon. :S.

Those are awesome moves. Better than Gear Grind. Klinklang should be a mixed sweeper.

Zekrom_Lover
27th June 2011, 5:48 PM
The best new cry is Samurotts.

SphealsFTW
27th June 2011, 5:48 PM
Those are awesome moves. Better than Gear Grind. Klinklang should be a mixed sweeper.
Gear Grind wouldn't be that bad if it had 100 accuracy. And it needs a good physical electric move... Too bad it can't learn Wild Charge?

misterdarvus
27th June 2011, 6:03 PM
Best new cry? Klinklang. :579: is pretty awesome too. :P

Is it just me or Klinklang cry sound like the Thunderbolt effect in 5th gen?

Blackjack the Titan
27th June 2011, 6:07 PM
Chandelure's and Palpitoad's cries are cool.
The way that Palpitoad bugs out it eyes and wiggles its head is kinda funny.

SphealsFTW
27th June 2011, 6:09 PM
Chandelure's and Palpitoad's cries are cool.
The way that Palpitoad bugs out it eyes and wiggles its head is kinda funny.
IKR? Because of the way Palpitoad moves, I find it ugly, cute, funny, and annoying, all at the same time.

R_N
27th June 2011, 6:54 PM
Those are awesome moves. Better than Gear Grind. Klinklang should be a mixed sweeper.

Uh, Gear Grind is kind of awesome. It's basically a steel version of earthquake.

Dattebayo
27th June 2011, 6:56 PM
Klinklang just needs Baton Pass to be used more often.

Wallaroo42
27th June 2011, 7:14 PM
I think the best cries are stunfisk and pignite. Farty noises, yay!

And I agree on supergear needing a better movepool. Serperior too

Geekachu
27th June 2011, 7:53 PM
I love Quagsire, he is beastly...because I said so...and because I don't play the games...

I actually agree. I used a Quagsire in my HG Team and it didn't disappoint; I really like it.

Dattebayo
27th June 2011, 8:05 PM
I actually agree. I used a Quagsire in my HG Team and it didn't disappoint; I really like it.

It doesn't have a base stat of 100 or higher, so it's an inferior water/ground, which is sad because it's the first of its kind. It needs an attack-boosting move.

Grei
27th June 2011, 8:42 PM
It doesn't have a base stat of 100 or higher, so it's an inferior water/ground, which is sad because it's the first of its kind. It needs an attack-boosting move.

Dattebayo, we do not care how good it is competitively. Nobody here cares. It really isn't good to let Smogon do the thinking for you--you should think for yourself.

NeohopeSTF
27th June 2011, 8:44 PM
Hey guys am i the only person that ev trains while going though the story line? I did it for HG and Black.

Universe Chaser
27th June 2011, 8:44 PM
It doesn't have a base stat of 100 or higher, so it's an inferior water/ground, which is sad because it's the first of its kind. It needs an attack-boosting move.

Yeah, on paper it doesn't look too impressive, but it's actually pretty nice. And, aside from Umbreon, it's easily one of the most annoying pokemon on the Subway...


Hey guys am i the only person that ev trains while going though the story line?

You, my friend, are a better person than I.

Geekachu
27th June 2011, 9:16 PM
It doesn't have a base stat of 100 or higher, so it's an inferior water/ground, which is sad because it's the first of its kind. It needs an attack-boosting move.

Dattebayo, for someone like me who doesn't give a flying f**k about competetive battling, Quagsire is alright.

PokemonOwn
27th June 2011, 9:22 PM
It doesn't have a base stat of 100 or higher, so it's an inferior water/ground, which is sad because it's the first of its kind. It needs an attack-boosting move.

It's a great staller, IMO.

And, stop hating on Dayebatto, he is just a Smogonist, like I am.

;275;, anyone?

Dattebayo
27th June 2011, 9:37 PM
Dattebayo, we do not care how good it is competitively. Nobody here cares. It really isn't good to let Smogon do the thinking for you--you should think for yourself.

If I think for myself, I'll be murdered by elitists on the internet in heated debates. If you can't beat'em, join'em.

For Shiftry, one of the few low tier Pokemon who is uber material is something to behold.

The Eleventh
27th June 2011, 9:52 PM
Hey guys am i the only person that ev trains while going though the story line? I did it for HG and Black.
I don't. The main game is easy enough without the need for EV-trained Pokémon. I find that EV training during the main game would hinder me and slow down my progress. Do you EV train all of your Pokémon?

NeohopeSTF
27th June 2011, 10:15 PM
I don't. The main game is easy enough without the need for EV-trained Pokémon. I find that EV training during the main game would hinder me and slow down my progress. Do you EV train all of your Pokémon?
Yes i know it takes the longest time but then your prepared for anything the game has to offer its easier in Black and white because Route 1 is attack so it took me about 3 hours before my Oshawott was ready to go but meh its still fun nonetheless

はるひ
27th June 2011, 11:31 PM
It really isn't good to let Smogon do the thinking for you--you should think for yourself.

OH GOD THANK YOU! :p

Grei
28th June 2011, 12:55 AM
OH GOD THANK YOU! :p

It's true, even in non-Dattebayo instances. Smogon is right when it comes to metagame stuff, but when it comes to in-game, they're really not what I look at any more. They speak in the context of the metagame, so it rarely gives me indications of in-game potential, and besides that, some Pokemon are good competitively but not so great in-game, and that's misleading.

Blackjack the Titan
28th June 2011, 1:06 AM
It really isn't good to let Smogon do the thinking for you--you should think for yourself.

Thank you. Has Smogon thought of giving Bird Pokemon Shell Bell if it uses Brave Bird?
I thought of that idea and it sounded like something I've read off Smogon. 'Give Pokemon that hold a Shell Bell recoil moves.'

Blazios
28th June 2011, 1:08 AM
Thank you. Has Smogon thought of giving Bird Pokemon Shell Bell if it uses Brave Bird?
I thought of that idea and it sounded like something I've read off Smogon. 'Give Pokemon that hold a Shell Bell recoil moves.'

Shell Bell sucks, though. Given the amount of damage you'd need to inflict for a decent amount of recovery, you might as well use Leftovers if you want recovery from recoil moves.

R_N
28th June 2011, 1:09 AM
Thank you. Has Smogon thought of giving Bird Pokemon Shell Bell if it uses Brave Bird?
I thought of that idea and it sounded like something I've read off Smogon. 'Give Pokemon that hold a Shell Bell recoil moves.'

No, that's never used. If you're using recoil moves, go for broke.

Shell Bell is too unreliable and gimmicky, so far as Smogon is concerned (and frankly I agree to a point)

はるひ
28th June 2011, 1:11 AM
I'm psyched for my Hydreigon themed team XD

I love dragons because they can cover their weaknesses.

Dattebayo
28th June 2011, 1:25 AM
Thank you. Has Smogon thought of giving Bird Pokemon Shell Bell if it uses Brave Bird?
I thought of that idea and it sounded like something I've read off Smogon. 'Give Pokemon that hold a Shell Bell recoil moves.'

Stick with the generic standard sets, and you'll be just fine.

KickAsh
28th June 2011, 4:42 AM
It doesn't have a base stat of 100 or higher, so it's an inferior water/ground, which is sad because it's the first of its kind. It needs an attack-boosting move.
Look at its Dream World ability.
It is Unaware.
Foe's stat boost DON'T HAPPEN.
The sheer amount of trolling you can accomplish > mediocre stats.



I thought of that idea and it sounded like something I've read off Smogon. 'Give Pokemon that hold a Shell Bell recoil moves.'
Well, the Shell Bell kind of sucks.
But this got me thinking about underrated items. For me, the Rocky Helmet is really underrated. I slapped it on my Stoutland and it made it a lot easier to deal with Fighting types, and it just made it easier to KO other Pokemon in general.

Blackjack the Titan
28th June 2011, 4:48 AM
Besides Quagsire, who would you rather use:
Swampert
Or
Seismitoad?

R_N
28th June 2011, 4:53 AM
Besides Quagsire, who would you rather use:
Swampert
Or
Seismitoad?

Option 3: Gastrodon because Gastrodon is awesome

KuroiMawile
28th June 2011, 5:30 AM
Storm drain sounds like a pretty good ability. (All shellos are born pink in BW, right?)

R_N
28th June 2011, 6:05 AM
Storm drain sounds like a pretty good ability. (All shellos are born pink in BW, right?)

No, it's always been dependent on the mother's color.

General Nonsense
28th June 2011, 6:29 AM
If I think for myself, I'll be murdered by elitists on the internet in heated debates. If you can't beat'em, join'em.

If that's really how you feel, then that's really depressing. Why do you care what those elitists think? If you're afraid of being murdered by elitists in heated debates, don't get involved in those debates at all. You should form your own ideas as opposed to just doing what other people are doing because you feel forced to. No one's forcing you to do anything.

Dattebayo
28th June 2011, 6:37 AM
Besides Quagsire, who would you rather use:
Swampert
Or
Seismitoad?

Swampert, because I liek Mudkipz. If only Seismitoad knew Ice Beam so Sludge Bomb won't be used as an alternative.


You should form your own ideas as opposed to just doing what other people are doing because you feel forced to. No one's forcing you to do anything.

I've done this all the time such as decreasing the human population through countless abortion to save the environment, and no one ever took me seriously.

R_N
28th June 2011, 6:41 AM
Swampert, because I liek Mudkipz. If only Seismitoad knew Ice Beam so Sludge Bomb won't be used as an alternative.



I've done this all the time such as decreasing the human population through countless abortion to save the environment, and no one ever took me seriously.

I couldn't possibly see why

Blackjack the Titan
28th June 2011, 7:31 AM
I choose Swampert cuzof its design and movepool.

Valoo.
28th June 2011, 1:38 PM
I've done this all the time such as decreasing the human population through countless abortion to save the environment, and no one ever took me seriously.
Dattebayo, have you ever thought there might be a reason that nobody takes you seriously?

Geekachu
28th June 2011, 4:25 PM
Besides Quagsire, who would you rather use:
Swampert
Or
Seismitoad?

To be honest, I like all three (including Snowy's third option)


I've done this all the time such as decreasing the human population through countless abortion to save the environment, and no one ever took me seriously.

I wonder why...

Lorde
28th June 2011, 4:28 PM
Besides Quagsire, who would you rather use:
Swampert
Or
Seismitoad?

I've used Swampert before tons of times, so I would probably use Seismitoad, even though it looks pretty bad. I'd use Seismitoad mostly because it would be something different, but also because I like challenging myself. I'm not sure if Seismitoad would come through for me, but I figure that there are worse Pokemon out there.

Slivers
28th June 2011, 5:23 PM
First Post here; if this is in the wrong spot, someone PM me where to put it.

Black and White is the first Pokemon for my Son and age 8 and has been an incredible game for him (my gaming goes back to the the 70's and PnP D&D and a Color Computer, so you can imagine the proud Dad moments ;)

However, he has run into a problem and no amount of Internet searching has given me clue to help him. He has finished the game, collected all the Legendaries including Thunderous, and is slowly filling out his Pokedex. What he cannot get is the Cover or Plume fossil for Archen or Tirtouga :'( He goes in to Relic Castle, talks to the girl near the entrance with the backpack, but she just refers him to the museum without giving him a fossil.

We checked his items and we have looked at his Pokedex and he does not have either of these Pokemon, so he hasn't received one yet. He is able to get the daily fossils from the man in the Twist Mountain and revive them, just not the one from Relic Castle.

Is there any pre-requisite or other triggers needed to initiate the giving of the fossils he may have missed?

Thanks
<-slivers->

rocky505
28th June 2011, 5:43 PM
Your son probably already got one of the fossils and accidently tossed it away or sold it. Your best bet at getting the two Pokemon is using GTS. Just place an Audino in there people always take those.

Poke_Cannon
28th June 2011, 5:43 PM
i can only assume he already got the fossil, and accidentally released it from his backpack, because there wouldn't really be a glitch in the game that wouldn't allow it.

Blackjack the Titan
28th June 2011, 5:57 PM
Even better,
a Shiny Audino!

Universe Chaser
28th June 2011, 6:41 PM
Even better,
a Shiny Audino!

It wouldn't be the best of ideas to waste a shiny Audino (Who's got a pretty cool color scheme) on a fossil pokemon that's not all that rare.

KickAsh
28th June 2011, 8:05 PM
Besides Quagsire, who would you rather use:
Swampert
Or
Seismitoad?

Option 3: Gastrodon because Gastrodon is awesome
None of the above, because I choose Whiscash.
Whiscash is the best. I love it's design, I love that it gets Dragon Dance (???), and I just love everything about it.

Grei
28th June 2011, 8:49 PM
Option 3: Gastrodon because Gastrodon is awesome

Agreed. Gastrodon > All other Water/Ground

SphealsFTW
28th June 2011, 9:24 PM
Agreed. Gastrodon > All other Water/Ground
Also agreed. It's sluggy-ness is just so appealing. And no, I am not being sarcastic.

Agonist
28th June 2011, 9:41 PM
Plus it has the best support movepool of any water/ground type (quagsire has pretty much the same, but Gastrodon has some cool options like Memento). And it looks the best to me.

R_N
28th June 2011, 10:01 PM
Plus it has the best support movepool of any water/ground type (quagsire has pretty much the same, but Gastrodon has some cool options like Memento). And it looks the best to me.

Though it's odd that Gastrodon completely lacks Stealth Rocks

Toge Tamer
28th June 2011, 10:15 PM
Though it's odd that Gastrodon completely lacks Stealth Rocks
I'm more a fan of Quagsire, m'self.

Solfatara
28th June 2011, 10:57 PM
DW Quagsire is the king. Other than that, Swampert really gets things going for me, both base stats-wise and aesthetically.

Slivers: Can your son already have given the fossil to the museum lady and not yet picked up the pokémon? Try talking to her once more, with an empty slot in the party.

Dattebayo
28th June 2011, 11:14 PM
Gastrodon's the best non-starter water/ground type, hands down. It just needs Earth Power and Rock Polish.

NeohopeSTF
28th June 2011, 11:16 PM
Nah Palpitoad is the best out of all of them.

Dattebayo
28th June 2011, 11:23 PM
Nah Palpitoad is the best out of all of them.

It lacks Ice Beam though, and nobody uses poison moves for offensive, only stalling.

General Nonsense
28th June 2011, 11:26 PM
It lacks Ice Beam though, and nobody uses poison moves for offensive, only stalling.

Using a poison move in game for attacking is alright as far as I'm concerned. lacks the patience to breed for hidden power [ice]

Dattebayo
28th June 2011, 11:36 PM
Even if it gains Ice Punch via move tutors, It's still been trolled for the lack of a physical water move such as Waterfall.

Toge Tamer
28th June 2011, 11:38 PM
Using a poison move in game for attacking is alright as far as I'm concerned. lacks the patience to breed for hidden power [ice]
Sorry, Dattebayo doesn't understand the concept of non-competitive play.

NeohopeSTF
28th June 2011, 11:55 PM
I don't like Palpitoad for its Competitive stance i like it how it looks.

gyaradosuseddragonrage!
29th June 2011, 12:00 AM
Toge: General Nonsense is being perfectly reasonable imo.

Dattebayo: In-game is not competitive. This site is NOT Smogon, and this section, for the most part, doesn't give a crap about smogon. Smogon does not enrich in-game experience. What part of this do you not understand?

JD
29th June 2011, 12:15 AM
When I first got the game I used Gastrodon in my first play through on Diamond version and I was pretty pleased with it whenever I didn't pick Piplup I usually used Gastrodon as my water type I tried Buizel once and didn't care for it too much. But anyway I prefer Swampert mainly because it was my favorite starter

Cometstarlight
29th June 2011, 12:25 AM
I don't know I guess it just really depends on what pokemon you want to use as your starter. For the fourth generation, I picked Mudkip without batting an eye and I don't regret that decision, I was just a little...shocked when I saw its final form. lol still love it though.

Dattebayo
29th June 2011, 12:37 AM
Dattebayo: In-game is not competitive. This site is NOT Smogon, and this section, for the most part, doesn't give a crap about smogon. Smogon does not enrich in-game experience. What part of this do you not understand?

It should be like Smogon. You see tons of users arguing regarding which Pokemon is good and the other stinks, whether it's in-game or competitive. The internet is dominated by Stop Having Fun Guys, remember that.

R_N
29th June 2011, 1:00 AM
It should be like Smogon. You see tons of users arguing regarding which Pokemon is good and the other stinks, whether it's in-game or competitive. The internet is dominated by Stop Having Fun Guys, remember that.

The internet is also dominated by morons, what's your point

Endless
29th June 2011, 1:01 AM
It should be like Smogon. You see tons of users arguing regarding which Pokemon is good and the other stinks, whether it's in-game or competitive. The internet is dominated by Stop Having Fun Guys, remember that.

If you now what Stop Having Fun Guys is about, you know it's that winning is more important than fun. This does have value when you play competitive and prove yourself against other players and honour and even prizes can be won and lost. While in-game, you simply can't lose(Except Nuzlocke) and can beat the game with whatever you want.

Dattebayo
29th June 2011, 1:01 AM
The internet is also dominated by morons, what's your point

It means if you can't beat'em, join'em. If this is how we should play the game, then perhaps we should.

gyaradosuseddragonrage!
29th June 2011, 1:03 AM
But this ISN'T how we should play the game. People SHOULD have fun. Fun = happiness = ultimate desire of life.

R_N
29th June 2011, 1:08 AM
But this ISN'T how we should play the game. People SHOULD have fun. Fun = happiness = ultimate desire of life.

Specifically it isn't just how to play the game, if only because competitive stylings typically have little bearing on in-game stylings. Have you tried using a Blissey in-game? It's aggravating to both train and use. But it functions as a great special sponge/wall in competitive.
No one will probably use Vanilluxe at all, but in-game it doesn't need a large moveset because ICE BEAM ALL OVER THE PLACE *pew pew pew*

Dattebayo
29th June 2011, 1:13 AM
Blissey is one of the prime reasons why GF does care for competitive play. What makes you think VGC exist?

Endless
29th June 2011, 1:17 AM
Blissey is one of the prime reasons why GF does care for competitive play. What makes you think VGC exist?

Of course they do care about competitive play, however that is not the reason why he mentioned Blissey. He tried to tell you that competetive=/=in-game

R_N
29th June 2011, 1:19 AM
Blissey is one of the prime reasons why GF does care for competitive play. What makes you think VGC exist?

You are aware that the VGC typically tends towards Doubles, and recently even allows otherwise banned Pokemon (sup Kyogre, Groudon, Mewtwo) to be used willy-nilly, right?
And that Blissey doesn't particularly shine in that environment?

Besides, the VGC exists so people can take their teams they've trained so hard and battle each other (for prizes!).
You know.
The entire damn point of the game

edit: What I'm saying is that GameFreak probably does care about some semblance of balance (see: the introduction of Dark & Steel, move nerfing, move buffing, different niches for Pokemon to fulfill) but not to the extremes you tout

Dattebayo
29th June 2011, 1:21 AM
But not the Smogon way. :(

They should ashamed of allowing ubers in tournaments.

If only there was a Smogon player who entered and ended up winning the whole thing to prove to the world of their existence.

R_N
29th June 2011, 1:24 AM
But not the Smogon way. :(

They should ashamed of allowing ubers in tournaments.

If only there was a Smogon player who entered and ended up winning the whole thing to prove to the world of their existence.
Have you ever actually looked at the various smogon categories at all

Toge Tamer
29th June 2011, 1:31 AM
Toge: General Nonsense is being perfectly reasonable imo.

Dattebayo: In-game is not competitive. This site is NOT Smogon, and this section, for the most part, doesn't give a crap about smogon. Smogon does not enrich in-game experience. What part of this do you not understand?
What I said wasn't aimed at General Nonsense. o.o I was agreeing with him.

Dattebayo
29th June 2011, 1:33 AM
Have you ever actually looked at the various smogon categories at all

Yes, The Dragonspiral Tower and the Fifth Generation section is where I get my information on how Smogon users are like: Elitists.

Toge Tamer
29th June 2011, 1:37 AM
Yes, The Dragonspiral Tower and the Fifth Generation section is where I get my information on how Smogon users are like: Elitists.
Just because people are elitists doesn't mean you should blindly follow them.

はるひ
29th June 2011, 1:45 AM
It means if you can't beat'em, join'em. If this is how we should play the game, then perhaps we should.

If I followed your logic, you would be seeing green jello on my avatar.

R_N
29th June 2011, 1:54 AM
If I followed your logic, you would be seeing green jello on my avatar.

And that they have an entire VGC section devoted to devising strategies using the given allowances (including using things like Kyogre last year)

Grei
29th June 2011, 2:07 AM
If only there was a Smogon player who entered and ended up winning the whole thing to prove to the world of their existence.

Smogon isn't that great.

はるひ
29th June 2011, 2:58 AM
Ononokusu! (Haxorus) How is he?

Im using him for my next team

R_N
29th June 2011, 3:04 AM
Ononokusu! (Haxorus) How is he?

Im using him for my next team

Not amazing, but slightly above average. Could use a bigger move pool, but that's the Gen 5 slogan.

Dattebayo
29th June 2011, 3:08 AM
Not amazing, but slightly above average. Could use a bigger move pool, but that's the Gen 5 slogan.

Haxorus has already got the moves it needs though.

NeohopeSTF
29th June 2011, 3:18 AM
Hmm Haxorus is a really good poke all a round if your gonna get it make sure it jolly or meh go with what nature gives you.

Agonist
29th June 2011, 3:19 AM
Haxorus has already got the moves it needs though.


It needs a good fire move.

R_N
29th June 2011, 3:27 AM
It needs a good fire move.

You'd think he'd get the fangs at the very least. Those aren't amazing, but would work well enough in rounding out his options.

MetalFlygon08
29th June 2011, 3:38 AM
wishes fire claw was a move


I could see him getting Fire Punch as a tutor move in Grey, so that may help out his poor pool.

Agonist
29th June 2011, 3:41 AM
Well, at any rate, there needs to be a reliable physical fire move, that does like 90-100 damage that's either a tm or move tutor that alot of pokemon have access to

rocky505
29th June 2011, 3:47 AM
Well we got Wild Charge so maybe they'll make a Fire type take down(Which Flareon should get since GF are too stupid to give it Flare Blitz)

Blackjack the Titan
29th June 2011, 3:49 AM
Is there a Water Recoil move?

Agonist
29th June 2011, 4:07 AM
No

10 char

はるひ
29th June 2011, 4:11 AM
Hmm Haxorus is a really good poke all a round if your gonna get it make sure it jolly or meh go with what nature gives you.

Probably gonna go with a wild card nature,

GalladeX
29th June 2011, 4:14 AM
But not the Smogon way. :(

They should ashamed of allowing ubers in tournaments.

If only there was a Smogon player who entered and ended up winning the whole thing to prove to the world of their existence.

How about we just condense this argument into:

Smogon Uber banlist =/= VGC Uber banlist. Comprende?

Skydra
29th June 2011, 4:18 AM
Well we got Wild Charge so maybe they'll make a Fire type take down(Which Flareon should get since GF are too stupid to give it Flare Blitz)

Why does everyone assume that all Flareon needs is a physical Fire move to be good? Even with it, many other Pokemon would outclass it with it's poor stats other than Attack and Special Defense (and a usable Sp. Attack, I suppose, but with Flare Blitz you wouldn't want to invest in that). A large amount of other Flare Blitz users would still be better.

Agonist
29th June 2011, 4:19 AM
Probably gonna go with a wild card nature,


Try and go for a + atk nature. With Base 147 atk, it hits like a truck.

R_N
29th June 2011, 4:28 AM
Why does everyone assume that all Flareon needs is a physical Fire move to be good? Even with it, many other Pokemon would outclass it with it's poor stats other than Attack and Special Defense (and a usable Sp. Attack, I suppose, but with Flare Blitz you wouldn't want to invest in that). A large amount of other Flare Blitz users would still be better.

Because then it would actually get a move to take advantage of its really nice attack stat? Then it would actually maybe sort of be usable
The amount of physical fire moves is so low that the only remaining options are Fire Punch, Blaze Kick and Flare Blitz (did you know Flareon doesn't even get Flame Wheel?). And I'm going to go out on a limb and say it will never have a chance to get Fire Punch ever.

General Nonsense
29th June 2011, 5:13 AM
Try and go for a + atk nature. With Base 147 atk, it hits like a truck.

+spd is good too, but either one would work well.

Dattebayo
29th June 2011, 5:15 AM
It needs a good fire move.

Don't tell me, Ferrothorn? It'll get hurt by those Iron Barbs combined with Rocky Helmet, and of course, Life Orb.

General Nonsense
29th June 2011, 5:17 AM
Don't tell me, Ferrothorn?

Or it's just for type coverage...

R_N
29th June 2011, 5:19 AM
Don't tell me, Ferrothorn? It'll get hurt by those Iron Barbs combined with Rocky Helmet, and of course, Life Orb.
Skarmory, I'd assume.
I don't think Ferrothorn typically uses Rocky Helmet, but it will still pack a wallop.

edit: Some of the most basic checks, but even Fire Fang would be a 260 BP move against Ferrothorn (compared to, say, Brick Break's 150)

Dattebayo
29th June 2011, 5:48 PM
^ A physical Fire move against Ferrothorn is still a no no.

Toge Tamer
29th June 2011, 6:08 PM
^ A physical Fire move against Ferrothorn is still a no no.
Even from a competitive stance, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Dattebayo
29th June 2011, 6:20 PM
Even from a competitive stance, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

I do know what I'm talking about, iron barbs shouldn't be taken lightly, even if it takes a bit of your HP, because then you won't be able to have enough to survive a SE move from the opponent's other Pokemon.

Grei
29th June 2011, 7:16 PM
I do know what I'm talking about, iron barbs shouldn't be taken lightly, even if it takes a bit of your HP, because then you won't be able to have enough to survive a SE move from the opponent's other Pokemon.

Wouldn't Mold Breaker cause Iron Barbs to not affect Haxorus?

EDIT: Never mind, no it wouldn't. Haxorus could still use Fire Fang, though, considering that if Haxorus ever has to face a Ferrothorn, it can probably just be switched out for a Pokemon that can use special Fire-type attacks.

Valoo.
29th June 2011, 7:18 PM
Wouldn't Mold Breaker cause Iron Barbs to not affect Haxorus?
Mold Breaker only stops abilities that give an immunity, like Levitate.

PokemonOwn
29th June 2011, 7:20 PM
Wouldn't Mold Breaker cause Iron Barbs to not affect Haxorus?

Mold Breaker only affects moves. I think.

;128;, anyone? I like Boufflant more, to be honest.

Dattebayo
29th June 2011, 7:24 PM
Tauros is good, it finally received a stat-boosting move to abuse its physical attack. But yeah, Afro Bull is better. It just needs Zen Headbutt and Agility.

Solfatara
29th June 2011, 7:25 PM
Depending on your team stragey, taking down Ferrothorn could in many cases mean removing a very annoying wall, allowing another team mate to successfully set up or sweep. Haxorus taking some damage would probably not be a major problem then, seeing how ferrothorn would be gone (now not taking mold breaker into account, I'm not sure if it would take damage, but it could also be running rivalry). Also, it's not like Iron barbs really hurts much without the rocky helmet.
This is not what I really wanted to discuss though, as it seems from this discussion, people tend to want competitively viable moves to be available for every type, and available to most pokémon (like exactly such a fire move, or wild bolt that many with a shallow movepool got access to etc.). However, I think the restrictions really are a contribution to the meta-game, being able to check and wall certain threats as well as having to think slightly harder about which pokes to add to the team. If every pokémon could learn good moves from every type, only the ones with the very highest base stats would be popular, at least when it comes to sweeping.

Toge Tamer
29th June 2011, 8:50 PM
I do know what I'm talking about, iron barbs shouldn't be taken lightly, even if it takes a bit of your HP, because then you won't be able to have enough to survive a SE move from the opponent's other Pokemon.
Generally Iron Barbs isn't a nuisance. If the only way for people to eliminate Ferrothorn is to use a physical Fire move, an ability such as that wouldn't hinder people from making that decision.

And FYI, most Ferrothorn will hold Leftovers, not Rocky Helmet.

And generally, if you feel you won't be able to survive an attack you switch out to a counter or check, unless sacrifice really is the best option. That just wouldn't be a problem for a serious competitive player.

tinker6bells
30th June 2011, 3:42 PM
Yes, I know this makes me sound stupid, but were do u get leftovers?! I've been lookin and lookin and i cant find them anywhere! If its through trade, don't even bothr to say that, because i live with no other kids.:587::587::587::587::587:;205;

Poke_Cannon
30th June 2011, 3:47 PM
Ferrothorn isn't that threatening really.. faced them..used them.. and it really doesn't do too much. the metagame is too powerful and quick to really be bothered by it.

Mario with Lasers
30th June 2011, 4:22 PM
Smogon isn't that great.

Well, BlueCookies won VGC 2010 or something, as far as I know, and he's from Smogon...


I do know what I'm talking about, iron barbs shouldn't be taken lightly, even if it takes a bit of your HP, because then you won't be able to have enough to survive a SE move from the opponent's other Pokemon.

Lol what do you want, then? Fire Blast Haxorus coming off a 60 Base SAtk? If Fire Fang means it OHKOs (or 2HKOs, I don't know) Ferrothorn, then it's perfect.


Skarmory, I'd assume.
I don't think Ferrothorn typically uses Rocky Helmet, but it will still pack a wallop.

edit: Some of the most basic checks, but even Fire Fang would be a 260 BP move against Ferrothorn (compared to, say, Brick Break's 150)

Funnily enough, a set of Dragon Dance / Dragon Tail / Outrage / filler is enough to deal with Skarmory; Dragon Dance while Skarmory switches in, Dragon Tail while it *tries* to Whirlwind you, and then it's at Outrage 2HKO range.


Ferrothorn isn't that threatening really.. faced them..used them.. and it really doesn't do too much. the metagame is too powerful and quick to really be bothered by it.

The metagame (at least the Smogon one, no idea about VGC, Random Battle and PO's Official Server) has not degraded into utter chaos yet just because of Ferrothorn's (and Tyranitar's) presence. Lol best wall in the game.

NeohopeSTF
30th June 2011, 4:31 PM
Hey guys thoughts on Swampert i'm thinking of using one over ferrothorn.

Geekachu
30th June 2011, 4:43 PM
Yes, I know this makes me sound stupid, but were do u get leftovers?! I've been lookin and lookin and i cant find them anywhere! If its through trade, don't even bothr to say that, because i live with no other kids.

This should be in the questions thread, however they can be found in a trash can under the village bridge, as well as being held by a Munchlax in an in-game-trade, which is only available in summer.

Dattebayo
30th June 2011, 5:34 PM
Hey guys thoughts on Swampert i'm thinking of using one over ferrothorn.

Swampert's what makes water types one of the best in the series, but I'd seuggest keeping both Pokemon if you want a sandstorm team.

Grei
30th June 2011, 7:55 PM
Yes, I know this makes me sound stupid, but were do u get leftovers?! I've been lookin and lookin and i cant find them anywhere! If its through trade, don't even bothr to say that, because i live with no other kids.:587::587::587::587::587:;205;

That question didn't make you sound stupid. What made you sound stupid was


:587::587::587::587::587:;205;

this.


Well, BlueCookies won VGC 2010 or something, as far as I know, and he's from Smogon...

Are you arguing that Smogon should be held on the highest possible pedestal, though? Because my point was saying that that's what we shouldn't do. Smogon's not that great where it's the end-all-be-all for everything Pokemon. In fact, in the context of the original subject--in-game playing--Smogon sucks.

AquaRegisteel
30th June 2011, 9:29 PM
^This.

Anyway, How good was Archeops in-game for everyone who used it?

General Nonsense
30th June 2011, 9:31 PM
^This.

Anyway, How good was Archeops in-game for everyone who used it?

Archeops was great in-game. It was the major powerhouse of my team. IIRC, it solo'd a few gym leaders.

AfroTrainer
30th June 2011, 9:36 PM
Archeops was great in-game. It was the major powerhouse of my team. IIRC, it solo'd a few gym leaders.

I tried using a Archeops for competitive, and it was useless after a couple of hits with its ability.

General Nonsense
30th June 2011, 9:45 PM
I tried using a Archeops for competitive, and it was useless after a couple of hits with its ability.

The person who asked the question was specifically asking about in-game.

Geekachu
30th June 2011, 10:05 PM
The person who asked the question was specifically asking about in-game.

It wasn't even a question. However in game Archeops is awesome, I found it strong enough so it's ability didn't activate that much.

Dattebayo
1st July 2011, 3:01 AM
I really wished it learned Sky Drop so it woudn't have to rely on acrobatics, which loses power if it holds a berry to keep its ability from activating.

R_N
1st July 2011, 3:05 AM
I really wished it learned Sky Drop so it woudn't have to rely on acrobatics, which loses power if it holds a berry to keep its ability from activating.

Why on earth would it hold a berry?
I believe the typical set is Flying Gem to take full advantage of Acrobatics.


Would be nice if more things got Sky Drop, though.

Ltrainer
1st July 2011, 3:32 AM
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/7190/reshiramandzekrom3dbatt.jpg

I found this on another forum. Some Japanese people took the sprites from Pokedex 3D. I think we should use 3D sprites for the 6th generation of Pokemon games.

Here's more pictures on this website: http://pokemonblackandwhite.net/?p=5366

R_N
1st July 2011, 3:34 AM
Okay, that's the best use I've seen of the AR features, hands down.

blaze boy
1st July 2011, 3:50 AM
I found this on another forum. Some Japanese people took the sprites from Pokedex 3D. I think we should use 3D sprites for the 6th generation of Pokemon games.



Do you know how much data space that would require for each pokémon so it isn't likely to happen.

BCVM22
1st July 2011, 4:23 AM
I think we should use 3D sprites for the 6th generation of Pokemon games.

No part of this is close enough to be worthy of discussion yet.

They didn't actually "take sprites" from Pokédex 3D either; it looks like they Photoshopped the AR markers for Reshiram and Zekrom onto a Generation V battle scene, with the markers skewed and angled appropriately, and then photographed that tableau with the Pokédex's AR camera. Which is pretty clever, don't get me wrong, but it certainly isn't "zomg future of the franchise!" like some would believe.

Dattebayo
1st July 2011, 4:42 AM
Why on earth would it hold a berry?

So its ability won't activate.


I believe the typical set is Flying Gem to take full advantage of Acrobatics.

Even without a Flying Gem, STAB Acrobatics is still good as long as it's not holding an item, which puts Archeops at a disadvantage for not using a berry to keep him alive and preventing Defeatist. That's why I recommend Sky Drop (as soon as GF fixes that glitch regarding it and Gravity in the third game).

R_N
1st July 2011, 4:44 AM
Do you know how much data space that would require for each pokémon so it isn't likely to happen.

Not just Pokemon.
Something I think people forget when suggesting or arguing for, say, polygonal models in Pokemon games is the amount of everything else besides the Pokemon.
Off the top of my head, we have: models for different buildings (which can vary wildly from city to city), the stuff that goes inside the buildings, trainers (and their animations), attack animations, battlefields, the increased size of having full-3d towns & routes in general, the models and things that make up the routes and this is in addition to normal stuff like sound n things

Assuming everything they do is at a good quality across the board (let's use the 3d Pokedex as our "bar" for quality), it would take a great deal more space than a primarily sprite-based game would. And more space = more money


So its ability won't activate.



Even without a Flying Gem, STAB Acrobatics is still good as long as it's not holding an item, which puts Archeops at a disadvantage for not using a berry to keep him alive and preventing Defeatist. That's why I recommend Sky Drop (as soon as GF fixes that glitch regarding it and Gravity in the third game).

No one uses Sitrus Berry, and if it's a strong hit it will probably either kill him or not activate the berry in time to deactivate the ability (especially when considering entry hazards). He's better off just ignoring defenses and going for an aggressive assault. And it would only prevent it once.

Also, actually double checking Sky Drop, I don't think he'd really have a lot of use for it. It's basically a delayed Wing Attack; he avoids a hit for a turn, but he's still going to get hit the next turn. I mean I guess he could hold Leftovers with it, but that seems more suited towards more defensive birds (Mandibuzz wants this move so bad, I think)