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BCVM22
4th August 2011, 2:24 AM
Galvantula does one thing very well (Speed), another reasonably well (Special Attack with a reasonably solid movepool) and everything else average to poor.

I do like the bugger a lot because it's fast as hell and can blast away with STAB Thunder and Bug Buzz (the former benefits greatly from Compoundeyes' heightened accuracy) before it either gets KO'd or switched out, but it can't defend particularly well. It's a very solid critter as long as you use it right.

JD
4th August 2011, 2:31 AM
I might consider using Galvantula now Thunder+Compoundeyes is a great combination especially with STAB. I might try out Emboar as a starter since I want to try out a new fire type Darmanitan is excellent I've just used it so many times it gets kind of boring. I wish there was some kind of hold item that made Darmanitan change Zen Mode so you wouldn't have to use Subsitute or Belly Drum.

Endoplasmic Reticulum
4th August 2011, 2:45 AM
Galvantula does one thing very well (Speed), another reasonably well (Special Attack with a reasonably solid movepool) and everything else average to poor.

I do like the bugger a lot because it's fast as hell and can blast away with STAB Thunder and Bug Buzz (the former benefits greatly from Compoundeyes' heightened accuracy) before it either gets KO'd or switched out, but it can't defend particularly well. It's a very solid critter as long as you use it right.

It's stats aren't that bad, and its great typing and good movepool makes up for it

BCVM22
4th August 2011, 2:52 AM
But they aren't that good either, and the thing just can't take a hit.

Paradoxe
4th August 2011, 3:32 AM
But they aren't that good either, and the thing just can't take a hit.

But a Galvantula with a Choice Scarf + Electro Ball is deadly. It's really restrictive though.

Jb
4th August 2011, 3:46 AM
Choice scarf isn't something that someone would really used in-game on something with decent speed.

gyaradosuseddragonrage!
4th August 2011, 4:20 AM
Yeah, Galvy should stick to Compoundeyes + Wide Lens + Thunder.

Endoplasmic Reticulum
4th August 2011, 4:35 AM
But they aren't that good either, and the thing just can't take a hit.

Mine can take plenty

Silent Conversation
4th August 2011, 4:36 AM
But they aren't that good either, and the thing just can't take a hit.

Well, if we're strictly talking about the Eelektross vs. Galvantula discussion, Eelektross can't take a hit that much better than Galvantula, so with its better move pool, better speed and dual typing, Galvantula still wins.

Paradoxe
4th August 2011, 4:46 AM
Choice scarf isn't something that someone would really used in-game on something with decent speed.

Galvantula's the second fastest Electric-type in 5th gen, if you discount Thundurus. It has better than decent speed.

Endoplasmic Reticulum
4th August 2011, 4:54 AM
Well, if we're strictly talking about the Eelektross vs. Galvantula discussion, Eelektross can't take a hit that much better than Galvantula, so with its better move pool, better speed and dual typing, Galvantula still wins.

Actually we derailed the topic to the advantages and disadvantages of the Pokemon

Silent Conversation
4th August 2011, 4:59 AM
Actually we derailed the topic to the advantages and disadvantages of the Pokemon

So in that case I still say Galvantula's typing, moves and speed (its advantages) outweigh its lack of defense (its disadvantage).

Endoplasmic Reticulum
4th August 2011, 5:02 AM
So in that case I still say Galvantula's typing, moves and speed (its advantages) outweigh its lack of defense (its disadvantage).

Plus it's defenses aren't that bad to begin with

Silent Conversation
4th August 2011, 5:03 AM
Plus it's defenses aren't that bad to begin with

60 in both physical and special defense isn't something I would go bragging about.

Endoplasmic Reticulum
4th August 2011, 5:05 AM
60 in both physical and special defense isn't something I would go bragging about.

Yeah but I never had a problem with it. To me it never went down in one hit. It could actually take quite a few

Silent Conversation
4th August 2011, 5:07 AM
Yeah but I never had a problem with it. To me it never went down in one hit. It could actually take quite a few

But I assume this was in-game, where all the NPCs are pretty easy. I'm pretty sure we're talking about competitive gameplay, where your opponent is just as smart with his Pokemon, if not smarter, than you are.

HetaOni
4th August 2011, 5:08 AM
I love victini!It's so cute!I used to have a legit victini,but I restarted my game...If anyone has a legit victini I will think about trade because I didn't catch good pokes yet now I just have oshawott,pansage,and patrat.

Silent Conversation
4th August 2011, 5:10 AM
If anyone has a legit victini I will think about trade because I didn't catch good pokes yet now I just have oshawott,pansage,and patrat.

I believe the Trade Forum would be a better place to ask this. But I highly doubt anybody will give you their Victini in exchange for an Oshawott, Pansage or Patrat.

HetaOni
4th August 2011, 5:11 AM
I restarted my game 'cause I accidentaly traded my zekrom. D:

Pokechan
4th August 2011, 6:02 AM
What about Zebstrika? I love its design,but that almost barren movepool can ruin it unless it is used right. I remember dumping it in my old game because after a while it was unable to keep up with the rest of my Pokemon so I replaced it with Elecktross. I must have done something wrong while training it.

zerofield
4th August 2011, 6:06 AM
What about Zebstrika? I love its design,but that almost barren movepool can ruin it unless it is used right. I remember dumping it in my old game because after a while it was unable to keep up with the rest of my Pokemon so I replaced it with Elecktross. I must have done something wrong while training it.

i had virtually the same problem, but i switched it for a galvantula. zebstrika looks great, but it shouldn't be physical-based. that alone ruined it. and it's honestly too frail to even make good use of wild charge, it just ends up dying.

Endoplasmic Reticulum
4th August 2011, 6:14 AM
What about Zebstrika? I love its design,but that almost barren movepool can ruin it unless it is used right. I remember dumping it in my old game because after a while it was unable to keep up with the rest of my Pokemon so I replaced it with Elecktross. I must have done something wrong while training it.

I used it in my previous playthrough and it was also pretty good

arceus7
4th August 2011, 7:44 PM
actually it has a great move pool, its not diverse but it has enough type coverage and it can use thrash decently

you can send out a twaver ( jolteon) then use volt switch switch to mr elektross then use coil then use OHKO BLAM

zebstrika is alright but I ran through the entire playthrough with my trusty luxray crunch charge wild charge thunderfang worked pretty well

Grei
4th August 2011, 8:07 PM
What about Zebstrika? I love its design,but that almost barren movepool can ruin it unless it is used right. I remember dumping it in my old game because after a while it was unable to keep up with the rest of my Pokemon so I replaced it with Elecktross. I must have done something wrong while training it.

That's actually a lot of what I'm hearing. Cool in design, but you can't do too much with it because of its movepool. I remember people saying they were bored with it after a while.

Endoplasmic Reticulum
4th August 2011, 8:14 PM
I think with Wild Charge, Stomp, Thunder Wave, and Flame Charge it was quite helpful. It was annoying to train in the beginning though

ZexionMelody
4th August 2011, 8:32 PM
May I ppost pokemon trades here?

Grei
4th August 2011, 8:36 PM
May I ppost pokemon trades here?

No. Go to the Trade Forum. (http://www.serebiiforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=220)

Birds of Paradise
4th August 2011, 8:51 PM
I think with Wild Charge, Stomp, Thunder Wave, and Flame Charge it was quite helpful. It was annoying to train in the beginning though

I still have zebrastrika on my white team and I really like it. Though I use stomp (flinch), spark, flame charge (for grass types) and forget what the last move was, but I'm still using it because I love its design.

arceus7
4th August 2011, 9:45 PM
You know after the whole simi/pan talk I looked at Baokie's hair and I wasnt really getting a bob dylan vibe from his hair, this guy reminds me more of Simisear
http://www.memphisflyer.com/images/blogimages/2011/03/03/1299184390-chef-guy-fieri.jpg

http://broadwayworld.com/columnpic/Guy-Fieri-02.jpg

His name is Guy Fieri, this is his wiki > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fieri

Quite a Fieri ( pun intended) dude ( plus he is related to cooking just like Pan line is)(but the simi's follow more of a music motive)

http://obit-mag.com/media/image/large_bob-dylan-rothbury.jpg Bob dylan has more of a curly frenzy up there

Endoplasmic Reticulum
4th August 2011, 10:09 PM
I still have zebrastrika on my white team and I really like it. Though I use stomp (flinch), spark, flame charge (for grass types) and forget what the last move was, but I'm still using it because I love its design.

I can see why you use Spark over Wild Charge, but Wild Charge is much stronger and barely does any recoil

Silent Conversation
4th August 2011, 10:46 PM
I can see why you use Spark over Wild Charge, but Wild Charge is much stronger and barely does any recoil

Little or a lot, though, recoil is still a big disadvantage, and if it can be avoided than IMO it should be.

Endoplasmic Reticulum
4th August 2011, 10:51 PM
Little or a lot, though, recoil is still a big disadvantage, and if it can be avoided than IMO it should be.

With Wild Charge, recoil barely affects anything and it makes the huge increase in power worth it

arceus7
4th August 2011, 10:56 PM
on luxray but it is frail on zebstrika

Endoplasmic Reticulum
4th August 2011, 11:03 PM
Mine had Wild Charge and it was not a problem

Silent Conversation
4th August 2011, 11:05 PM
Mine had Wild Charge and it was not a problem

But it could be a hinderace if somebody wants to competitively train one.

Endoplasmic Reticulum
4th August 2011, 11:10 PM
But it could be a hinderace if somebody wants to competitively train one.

It doesn't really hinder it at all and its power makes up for it

arceus7
4th August 2011, 11:20 PM
I view zebstrika as a Eletric hihidaruma with half the hp and a crappier move pool

rocky505
4th August 2011, 11:45 PM
I had hope in Blitzle when he was first revealed. His movepool is not as bad as Serperior's but it is still bad.

Endless
4th August 2011, 11:49 PM
I had hope in Blitzle when he was first revealed. His movepool is not as bad as Serperior's but it is still bad.
I thought you could do fairly well in.game with Flame Charge and some electric moves. I can see it being mixed as physical/special doesn't really matter that much in game, especially with the stats being 100/80. I haven't really tested it myself but I want to, the design is really beautiful.

Endoplasmic Reticulum
4th August 2011, 11:50 PM
Yeah Zebstrika is pretty okay actually. It isn't annoying to use as like, Mienshao for example

KickAsh
4th August 2011, 11:58 PM
What's wrong with Mienshao? I used it and I really liked it. It wasn't annoying at all, it was actually really fun to use.

THEBLACKJACK918
5th August 2011, 12:03 AM
I don't really know where the heck to ask this, so I'll just ask it here. I have pokemon white, and I would LOVE a charmander. Can someone PLEASE trade with me? My friend code is 2108 0576 8594 I can give you a lvl 41 eelektross, or a lvl 29 Throh, or a lvl 14 purrloin. Thanks, guys!

arceus7
5th August 2011, 12:05 AM
go buy HGSS and get it yourself ;373;

Endoplasmic Reticulum
5th August 2011, 12:12 AM
What's wrong with Mienshao? I used it and I really liked it. It wasn't annoying at all, it was actually really fun to use.

It would not take a single damn hit before going down. Hence why I didn't even teach it Jump Kick!

rocky505
5th August 2011, 12:15 AM
I actually like Sawsbuck. I am currently using one in my black. It learns great physical moves. Horn Leech,Return,Double Edge, Jump Kick,Wild Charge, Megahorn. I love it's Winter form.

SphealsFTW
5th August 2011, 12:18 AM
It would not take a single damn hit before going down. Hence why I didn't even teach it Jump Kick!
Really now? I never had that problem at all with Miensho. Then again, mine was outspeeding and ohko-ing everything... which would explain why 'Shao is currently OU.

Endless
5th August 2011, 12:22 AM
I don't really know where the heck to ask this, so I'll just ask it here. I have pokemon white, and I would LOVE a charmander. Can someone PLEASE trade with me? My friend code is 2108 0576 8594 I can give you a lvl 41 eelektross, or a lvl 29 Throh, or a lvl 14 purrloin. Thanks, guys!

http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=486386

There you go...

Endoplasmic Reticulum
5th August 2011, 12:24 AM
Really now? I never had that problem at all with Miensho. Then again, mine was outspeeding and ohko-ing everything... which would explain why 'Shao is currently OU.

That would happen when I go first, but sometimes the attack would miss, cause me damage, and then they'd finish me off. That's why I was forced to teach it Break Break instead but it was not powerful enough to OHKO

gyaradosuseddragonrage!
5th August 2011, 4:00 AM
Read: Wide Lens. It's available before the Elite 4 with Battle Subway iirc.

thekorean
5th August 2011, 4:01 AM
Even with Guts how is toxic Orb in anyway beneficial?

Ememew
5th August 2011, 4:09 AM
Even with Guts how is toxic Orb in anyway beneficial?

Flame Orb's better for abusing Guts (since it doesn't sap your HP as quickly). Toxic Orb works well with the Poison Heal ability (http://www.serebii.net/abilitydex/poisonheal.shtml). It essentially acts as leftovers that also prevents other status problems in that case.

Accipitri
5th August 2011, 4:09 AM
The pokemon using Toxic Orb wouldn't be totally crippled if its ability was somehow changed, whereas one with a Flame Orb would. Not a big threat, since barely anything runs attacks like Worry Seed or Gastro Acid and Cofagrigus isn't super common. It's useful for poisoning pokemon with Poison Heal though, namely Gliscor. And Toxic Boost for Zangoose I guess.

ninja'd

thekorean
5th August 2011, 5:04 AM
Flame Orb's better for abusing Guts (since it doesn't sap your HP as quickly). Toxic Orb works well with the Poison Heal ability (http://www.serebii.net/abilitydex/poisonheal.shtml). It essentially acts as leftovers that also prevents other status problems in that case.

Ugh, even with Poison heal it has a very limited usage since theres like 3 pokemons who get the ability. Unless you can breed the ability on to other more useful Pokemons.

Accipitri
5th August 2011, 5:40 AM
Gliscsor is really common this gen so it's not a complete gimmick.

Silent Conversation
5th August 2011, 7:20 AM
I was under the impression the main use of Toxic Orb was to use Fling while holding it to poison the opponent if you don't know any poisoning moves. I'm not exactly sure if that's how Fling works, though, so I could be completely wrong.

The Oncoming Storm
5th August 2011, 7:30 AM
i think it was originally for trick and fling i think

Pokechan
5th August 2011, 7:34 AM
In my new game I am thinking of trying out Sawsbuck. It seems to be the only grass type besides Leavanny with a actual movepool this gen. I never tried a grass type besides Venusaur, Sceptile, and Torterra before so this is the first time I am using a grass type that is not a starter. Any good experiance with Sawsbuck?

Grei
5th August 2011, 7:49 AM
So... I've been wondering. Of the two early-game mammals, which is better? Stoutland, or Watchog?

Silent Conversation
5th August 2011, 8:03 AM
Well, Stoutland has a pretty good attack stat and some good defenses too, while Watchog has... nothing. So Stoutland.

The Oncoming Storm
5th August 2011, 8:08 AM
stoutland! with a choice band and sand rush it can revenge kill like a boss

Grei
5th August 2011, 8:32 AM
I figured as much. Stoutland also has more options.

So, in that case... What about Stoutland and Bouffalant? Which is better?

yeminied
5th August 2011, 8:41 AM
In my new game I am thinking of trying out Sawsbuck. It seems to be the only grass type besides Leavanny with a actual movepool this gen. I never tried a grass type besides Venusaur, Sceptile, and Torterra before so this is the first time I am using a grass type that is not a starter. Any good experiance with Sawsbuck?

YES! Sawsbuck is so good. I used it in my recent playthrough and found it immensely useful and saved me from defeat several times.

It has a really good movepool with lots of different move types. The combination of Fighting/Grass/Normal/Electric works really well.

I would definitely say Sawsbuck is the best in-game Grass type this gen.

Grei
5th August 2011, 8:51 AM
YES! Sawsbuck is so good. I used it in my recent playthrough and found it immensely useful and saved me from defeat several times.

It has a really good movepool with lots of different move types. The combination of Fighting/Grass/Normal/Electric works really well.

I would definitely say Sawsbuck is the best in-game Grass type this gen.

Lilligant is better. Just saying

loveyfoof
5th August 2011, 8:58 AM
I dont see the point why they would put an ant pokemon in the games.

Accipitri
5th August 2011, 9:12 AM
Why wouldn't they put an ant pokemon in? ._. I don't see how an ant is any different than any other bug type.

misterdarvus
5th August 2011, 9:17 AM
^ durant? It show the rivality with Heatmor, and it the fastest steel type that usualy slow.

Silent Conversation
5th August 2011, 4:17 PM
I actually really like the concept of Durant. Being an ant, it seems like it would be so weak and pathetic, but it has a really cool typing and its stats and move set are actually pretty good.

Aurath8
5th August 2011, 5:24 PM
I figured as much. Stoutland also has more options.

So, in that case... What about Stoutland and Bouffalant? Which is better?

Bouffallant has better bulk, power and movepool. However Stoutland is faster and is available on the first Route while Bouffalant on the last route. It depends on whether you can be patient for a quality pokemon or just want a full team as soon as possible.


I actually really like the concept of Durant. Being an ant, it seems like it would be so weak and pathetic, but it has a really cool typing and its stats and move set are actually pretty good.

The day Gamefreak releases Truant+Entrainment Durant, that shall be it's greatest day. For not it has the pretty nice niche of Hustle and Hone Claws.

rocky505
5th August 2011, 5:30 PM
Lilligant is better. Just saying Unless the Lilligant has a good Hidden Power no it is not better. Sawsbuck can even easily beat a lilligant with Megahorn. But IMO Sawsbuck is better due to movepool.

Endoplasmic Reticulum
5th August 2011, 5:48 PM
I actually really like the concept of Durant. Being an ant, it seems like it would be so weak and pathetic, but it has a really cool typing and its stats and move set are actually pretty good.

It's typing isn't THAT cool as it shares it with a few other Pokemon. But it looks pretty badass

misterdarvus
5th August 2011, 5:52 PM
The day Gamefreak releases Truant+Entrainment Durant, that shall be it's greatest day. For not it has the pretty nice niche of Hustle and Hone Claws.

I read in Bulbapedia Truant can't be passed through entrainment.Have someone test it?

KickAsh
5th August 2011, 5:56 PM
So... I've been wondering. Of the two early-game mammals, which is better? Stoutland, or Watchog?
Stoutland. Even if Stoutland had very little to offer, it would still be better.
Stoutland has superior abilities (Intimidate and Sand Rush to Watchog's Illuminate and Keen Eye). Stoutland's movepool is better--it gets the elemental fangs, notably, although not much else. Stoutland gets a lot of special moves, but it can't abuse them because of its terrible Sp.Atk. However, Watchog can't abuse any moves because of it's terrible Atk and Sp.Atk So Stoutland has a wide(r) movepool, oh, and also better stats in everything except Sp.Atk.
The only thing Watchog has that Stoutland doesn't is Baton Pass. And since Watchog gets only 4 stat-boosting moves (counting Psych Up and Double Team), Watchog can't Baton Pass very well at all.
And finally, Stoutland is the Big-Hearted Pokemon. Go ahead, try not to go "awww".


I figured as much. Stoutland also has more options.

So, in that case... What about Stoutland and Bouffalant? Which is better?
Probably Bouffalant. Sap Sipper really complements Bouffalant, and Bouffalant also gets Reckless, which is a risky ability but suitable for the Bash Buffalo Pokemon.
Also, Bouffalant has better stats all around, most noticeably in Attack. But Stoutland has slightly higher Sp.Atk and is faster, so the stats are a tough call. However, in movepool, Bouffalant wins. It gets more physical moves to abuse it's 110 Attack stat--moves like Megahorn, Earthquake, Stone Head, and a reliable physical STAB attack, Head Charge.
So I would say Bouffalant wins.


I actually really like the concept of Durant. Being an ant, it seems like it would be so weak and pathetic, but it has a really cool typing and its stats and move set are actually pretty good.
I like Durant, too. It's a very cool concept, and GF pulled it off with a really neat design. It looks cool overall, but it has little details about it (the antennae are nails!).
Also, it gets the distinction of being the fastest Steel type, which enhances its coolness. It's a really nice Pokemon and one of the reasons we got such good Bug types this gen.

thekorean
5th August 2011, 6:55 PM
I actually really like the concept of Durant. Being an ant, it seems like it would be so weak and pathetic, but it has a really cool typing and its stats and move set are actually pretty good.

Unless its the one with Truant.

Silent Conversation
5th August 2011, 6:57 PM
Unless its the one with Truant.

But in that case just don't use one with Traunt. Considering Traunt is its hidden ability, its easier to get a Durant without it than with it. And both Swarm and Hustle are pretty good abilities if you ask me.

thekorean
5th August 2011, 7:00 PM
Chandelure's Hex/Will o wisp combo is awesome, burn to take down some HP so then Hex can finish it off. Love it.

Silent Conversation
5th August 2011, 7:02 PM
Chandelure in general seems awesome. One of the best special attacks stats of any Pokemon, a pretty good special move set to utilize that, a really cool typing and even an awesome design. I'm planning on using it for my next play through of BWG.

thekorean
5th August 2011, 7:11 PM
Wish it was a little faster though. it can outrun many things but its also outran by many things. Especially dark types.

poopoop
5th August 2011, 8:02 PM
I actually really like the concept of Durant. Being an ant, it seems like it would be so weak and pathetic, but it has a really cool typing and its stats and move set are actually pretty good.

totally agree, I first thought it was weak until I checked its stats and i was like damn!! this ant got balls!!!! and good abilities too

Silent Conversation
5th August 2011, 8:23 PM
totally agree, I first thought it was weak until I checked its stats and i was like damn!! this ant got balls!!!! and good abilities too

If only it were available earlier on in the game, I would definitely use it during my next play through. The only disadvantage with it is if you're using it in-game, you can only get it right before the E4, which will leave me with 5 Pokemon for a large majority of the game.

MetalFlygon08
5th August 2011, 8:55 PM
I actually like Sawsbuck. I am currently using one in my black. It learns great physical moves. Horn Leech,Return,Double Edge, Jump Kick,Wild Charge, Megahorn. I love it's Winter form.



ANNNNND it can learn Thunder Wave via TM.


Also the Toxic Orb disco.

It's not Mainly for Fling to Poison. Every Pokemon that can Learn Fling can Learn Toxic.

It's also for-Trick, Switcheroo, Bestow, Toxic Boost, Poison Heal, Guts, Marvel Scale, Venoshock(when Bestowed/Tricked) Hex(see Venoshock).

gyaradosuseddragonrage!
5th August 2011, 9:32 PM
Still Durant has X-Scissor and Iron Head along with Hustle. It can wall Shauntal, Grimsley, and Caitlin fairly well and hit hard back with X-Scissor.

Durant with Truant is even better! Have you heard of the Truant-Shadow Tag combination? Entrainment Truant to the opponent, switch to Chandelure, they're trapped, and when they attack, you use protect and when they dawdle, you set up and smash the rest of their team. This isn't practical at all in-game but it's excellent competitively, and even better, in the Battle Subway.

Every Pokemon that can learn TMs can learn Toxic...

Hex is pretty much a two turn move, first turn use the status and second turn Hex, 100 damage over 2 turns + 1/16 or 1/8 or the opponent's HP. Shadow Ball can do 160 over 2 turns.

I agree that Lilligant is better than Sawsbuck. Sawsbuck can attack with more coverage, but Lilligant is bulkier, has recovery, has less weaknesses, Petal Dance/Own Tempo, and Quiver Dance.

Silent Conversation
5th August 2011, 9:36 PM
Hex is pretty much a two turn move, first turn use the status and second turn Hex, 100 damage over 2 turns + 1/16 or 1/8 or the opponent's HP. Shadow Ball can do 160 over 2 turns.

But remember that spending that one turn to give your opponent a status effect doesn't just make Hex more powerful, but the status effect itself still negatively affects the opposing Pokemon.

gyaradosuseddragonrage!
5th August 2011, 9:39 PM
That is true, but because in-game success is speed, Shadow Ball KO's much more quickly, because it warrants more damage. Over three turns, Shadow Ball is still stronger, but over 4 turns Hex is stronger. However, if you're using Shadow Ball, the battle probably wouldn't last 4 turns.

rocky505
5th August 2011, 9:40 PM
I agree that Lilligant is better than Sawsbuck. Sawsbuck can attack with more coverage, but Lilligant is bulkier, has recovery, has less weaknesses, Petal Dance/Own Tempo, and Quiver Dance. lilligant is bulkier by 5 measely points. Unless Lilligant has HP fire Sawsbuck rapes it. Sap Sipper FTW.

gyaradosuseddragonrage!
5th August 2011, 9:41 PM
I never said which one would fare better against eachother. I think that against an average enemy, Lilligant would fare better. Lilligant is bulkier with Quiver Dance.

Silent Conversation
5th August 2011, 9:57 PM
I'm planning on using Lilligant on my next play through simply because Own Tempo + Petal Dance seems like it will be amazingly powerful in-game.

rocky505
5th August 2011, 9:59 PM
I'm planning on using Lilligant on my next play through simply because Own Tempo + Petal Dance seems like it will be amazingly powerful in-game. Just keep it away from Its weaknesses or you'll be trapped in there until Petal dance wears off.

The Oncoming Storm
5th August 2011, 10:02 PM
I don't use grass types normaly because i find them redundant. I already have a water and electric type so i dont need one. I did use a serpirior though and im telling you i did not like it. It played okay but i would have rather used a diff poke

Silent Conversation
5th August 2011, 10:07 PM
Just keep it away from Its weaknesses or you'll be trapped in there until Petal dance wears off.

I've got Chandelure to take care of ice and bug, Reuniclus for poison and Excadrill for fire and flying (I'm going to teach it Rock Slide), so I'm covered.

The Oncoming Storm
5th August 2011, 10:29 PM
I've got Chandelure to take care of ice and bug, Reuniclus for poison and Excadrill for fire and flying (I'm going to teach it Rock Slide), so I'm covered.

I've used all three of those pokes at one time or another and i have to say that if your using all three on one playthrough you got it easy sauce cause all three are enormous powerhouses. Have fun with them I know I did.

rocky505
5th August 2011, 10:31 PM
I just don't like Pokemon with awful movepools and Lilligant is one of them. Here's hoping a future game with Tutors gives her hope.

Silent Conversation
5th August 2011, 10:31 PM
I've used all three of those pokes at one time or another and i have to say that if your using all three on one playthrough you got it easy sauce cause all three are enormous powerhouses. Have fun with them I know I did.

I'm not trying to make the game easy or difficult, because I find the game extremely easy regardless of what Pokemon I use. I'm just trying to test out new Pokemon, because there were a lot more Unova Pokemon than Pokemon from any other gen that I really wanted to use on my team, but couldn't because there are only 6 slots. So, hopefully I will have fun with them :)

EDIT: Finally, rank up!

The Oncoming Storm
5th August 2011, 10:42 PM
I understand. I've played through 3 times and i still haven't used all the new pokemon thast i want to use.

Grei
5th August 2011, 11:36 PM
Unless the Lilligant has a good Hidden Power no it is not better. Sawsbuck can even easily beat a lilligant with Megahorn. But IMO Sawsbuck is better due to movepool.

It doesn't need Hidden Power.


I just don't like Pokemon with awful movepools and Lilligant is one of them. Here's hoping a future game with Tutors gives her hope.

While Sawsbuck would beat Lilligant (arguably) with Megahorn, Lilligant is still better. She still owns with the moves that she has.

rocky505
5th August 2011, 11:41 PM
It doesn't need Hidden Power.



While Sawsbuck would beat Lilligant (arguably) with Megahorn, Lilligant is still better. She still owns with the moves that she has. No it doesn't. There are a lot of things that Lilligant can't do jack diddles too even with a few QDs and non confusion petal dance. 1. Sap Sippers, 2.Pokemon that 4x resist it. 3. Pokemon with taunt that outspeed it. 4. Pokemon with sky high Spdef. 5. Faster Pokemon who pack powerful super effective moves(Sawsbuck being one of them). The only reason you can say Lilligant is good is because of Petal Dance+ Own Tempo and QD. BTW are there any normal types that have Own Tempo and learn Thrash?

Silent Conversation
5th August 2011, 11:45 PM
BTW are there any normal types that have Own Tempo and learn Thrash?

I believe Spinda is the only one.

Wild Dragonite
6th August 2011, 12:00 AM
I believe Spinda is the only one.

Yup. Spinda's the only Pokemon that gets STAB Thrash and Own Tempo.

The Oncoming Storm
6th August 2011, 12:00 AM
I believe Spinda is the only one.

I think i may use a own tempo spinda that would be hilarious.

Šew™
6th August 2011, 12:01 AM
I'd almost hate to say this, but sap-sipper is the biggest factor here. What is lilligant without petal dance? Just another useless grass pokemon. The worst lilligant can do is a stategy I call "love daze" (attract+confusion-inducing move) and/or possibly HP. Don't get me wrong, lilligant is great in-game, but with a shallow movepool, I doubt that it is able to get very far anywhere else. Plus, with such a high attack, sawsbuck is likely to be choice banded or life orbed. So, that difference in bulk won't matter, nor will quiver dance.

gyaradosuseddragonrage!
6th August 2011, 12:07 AM
Lilligant has Quiver Dance and can take out anything bar Sap Sipper with it. It can boost 3 stats at once. It's a special DRAGON DANCE, and THEN SOME. You can't just disregard it like that.

Mister_SGG
6th August 2011, 12:12 AM
I like Sawsbuck better in every way and I think he's an awesome Physcial sweeper.

Gelatini Jejunator
6th August 2011, 12:41 AM
I think Simisage is my favourite Grass type of the region, I just really like his design. In fact, I love all three of the monkeys.

Grei
6th August 2011, 12:45 AM
I'd almost hate to say this, but sap-sipper is the biggest factor here. What is lilligant without petal dance?

An awesome Giga Drainer? You all don't seem to understand that Lilligant is a self-healing killing machine.


Just another useless grass pokemon. The worst lilligant can do is a stategy I call "love daze" (attract+confusion-inducing move) and/or possibly HP.

What the hell sort of strategy is this? Lilligant is pretty much never used this way. Who the hell uses Attract?


Don't get me wrong, lilligant is great in-game, but with a shallow movepool, I doubt that it is able to get very far anywhere else. Plus, with such a high attack, sawsbuck is likely to be choice banded or life orbed. So, that difference in bulk won't matter, nor will quiver dance.

Firstly, I don't know when everyone started thinking this was a metagame discussion thread, and considering we have an entire section devoted to 5th Gen metagame discussion, this thread should be primarily about in-game discussion.

Secondly, again, we aren't asking who will win between Sawsbuck and Lilligant. Besides the fact that Lilligant can win against a Sawsbuck, that's not what we're discussing.

Thirdly, Quiver Dance will matter. Putting your opponent to sleep, boosting three very important stats for Lilligant, and then unleashing terror is important.


I get the feeling most of you people who are calling Lilligant suckish and useless have never even used her yourselves. I've used both. Sawsbuck is not bad, but neither is Lilligant.

Silent Conversation
6th August 2011, 1:06 AM
I think Simisage is my favourite Grass type of the region, I just really like his design. In fact, I love all three of the monkeys.

I'll admit I like his design, but battle wise there are many better grass types introduced this generation.

Grey Wind
6th August 2011, 1:08 AM
I never liked Lilligant that much. She has an alright design, and Own Tempo combined with Petal Dance is cool, but I don't really like her that much. I much prefer Whisicott. God that thing's adorable. Prankster is great, it has an awesome movepool, and good stats. Plus it's design is really nice.

Paradoxe
6th August 2011, 1:13 AM
I never liked Lilligant that much. She has an alright design, and Own Tempo combined with Petal Dance is cool, but I don't really like her that much. I much prefer Whisicott. God that thing's adorable. Prankster is great, it has an awesome movepool, and good stats. Plus it's design is really nice.

There's a lot of Grass-types this time around, but they're only helpful against Clay. I've never had one on my team except Petilil, which helped with nothing.

Grei
6th August 2011, 1:13 AM
I never liked Lilligant that much. She has an alright design, and Own Tempo combined with Petal Dance is cool, but I don't really like her that much. I much prefer Whisicott. God that thing's adorable. Prankster is great, it has an awesome movepool, and good stats. Plus it's design is really nice.

I'm using a Prankster Cottonee right now, and I'm enjoying it. Being able to set up Leech Seed and Stun Spore/Poisonpowder with priority is really nice.

The Oncoming Storm
6th August 2011, 1:14 AM
Whats everyones favorite electric type this gen. I love zekrom

Silent Conversation
6th August 2011, 1:17 AM
Whats everyones favorite electric type this gen. I love zekrom

Mine's a close tie between Galvantula and Eelektross. If I had to choose one, I guess I'd choose Galvantula because of its dual typing and slightly better move set.

Grei
6th August 2011, 1:18 AM
Whats everyones favorite electric type this gen. I love zekrom

Zekrom's the only one that really appeals to me. Emolga, too. I'm contemplating using Galvantula or Stunfisk in my current playthrough, but prior to this playthrough (my 6th one) I had no desire to use them. I tried using the sperm eel and got bored. Zebstrika has never appealed to me, although Blitzle has. Thundurus < Landorus.

The Oncoming Storm
6th August 2011, 1:24 AM
SIX PLAYTHROUGHS?!?!?! wow thats a whole lota playthroughs!

I like galvantula as well. It kicks arse

Mark_Chaos
6th August 2011, 1:26 AM
Mine's a close tie between Galvantula and Eelektross. If I had to choose one, I guess I'd choose Galvantula because of its dual typing and slightly better move set.

Pretty much this. With compound eyes as an ability, you can safely teach it Thunder, and with high speed and special attack, the thing can do quite some damage.

Silent Conversation
6th August 2011, 1:34 AM
Pretty much this. With compound eyes as an ability, you can safely teach it Thunder, and with high speed and special attack, the thing can do quite some damage.

I didn't think of Compoundeyes. And its Special Attack isn't amazing (Eelektross's is better), but its enough for a 120 base power + STAB move to do significant damage.

Gelatini Jejunator
6th August 2011, 1:35 AM
I'm using a Prankster Cottonee right now, and I'm enjoying it. Being able to set up Leech Seed and Stun Spore/Poisonpowder with priority is really nice.
I used a Cottonee in a Nuzlocke run once, and she was really nice to use until she was killed off by Clay's Krokorok's critical hit move. ._. I hate how stone evolutions don't learn any new moves if you evolve them.

Grei
6th August 2011, 1:44 AM
SIX PLAYTHROUGHS?!?!?! wow thats a whole lota playthroughs!

It is. After my fifth (which was back in June, I think), I took a break up until yesterday, when I started my sixth.


I used a Cottonee in a Nuzlocke run once, and she was really nice to use until she was killed off by Clay's Krokorok's critical hit move. ._. I hate how stone evolutions don't learn any new moves if you evolve them.

Cottonee is pretty nice. Mine is functioning similarly to how a Petilil would--incapacitate the opponent with a status, seed them, and suck the life out of them.

But I just got a Sun Stone and I really want to evolve it. I don't know whether or not I should wait until it gets Cotton Guard or just settle for Giga Drain and evolve it soon. :S

thekorean
6th August 2011, 1:54 AM
Alright so my Chandelure's timid, with following movesets:

Flamethrower
Calm Mind
Hex
Will O Wisp

Ability: Flame Body

My favorite moment, when I use Will O Wisp against Pokemon with Synchronize, it doesnt affect Chandelure. lol.

gyaradosuseddragonrage!
6th August 2011, 2:08 AM
THE BELOW COMMENTS ARE MY OPINION. IF YOU WANT TO FLAME ME, REMEMBER YOUR CHILDHOOD AXIOM: IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING NICE TO SAY, DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL.

Lilligant is the best Grass type in Unova for reasons mentioned. Sawsbuck is second, for reasons stated by others. Serperior and Whimsicott are tied for third. Amoongus sucks.

I've used Whim once and it just loses its lustre the second you evolve it, the opposite of Lilligant. Giga Drain is all it has, and it doesn't hit hard enough against the opposition without Growth. After the fifth gym, there are Emolga upon Emolga and Deerling upon Deerling. Annoying.

WARNING END.

For reasons I have already stated, Hex is bad on Chandelure. While you're at it, try a Flash Fire one.

rocky505
6th August 2011, 2:08 AM
Whats everyones favorite electric type this gen. I love zekrom Look at my avatar. Stunfisk is a freaking beast. it has bulk and Special Attack power. I am currently using one in my black version.

Grei
6th August 2011, 2:14 AM
Look at my avatar. Stunfisk is a freaking beast. it has bulk and Special Attack power. I am currently using one in my black version.

So, would you recommend Stunfisk over Galvantula?

I can't decide between the two. :S

rocky505
6th August 2011, 2:18 AM
So, would you recommend Stunfisk over Galvantula?

I can't decide between the two. :S Depends on if the user is already using a bug type or doesn't want to. It's all based on opinion. I just like Stunfisk's typing and it learns great moves.

poopoop
6th August 2011, 2:20 AM
THE BELOW COMMENTS ARE MY OPINION. IF YOU WANT TO FLAME ME, REMEMBER YOUR CHILDHOOD AXIOM: IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING NICE TO SAY, DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL.

Lilligant is the best Grass type in Unova for reasons mentioned. Sawsbuck is second, for reasons stated by others. Serperior and Whimsicott are tied for third. Amoongus sucks.

I've used Whim once and it just loses its lustre the second you evolve it, the opposite of Lilligant. Giga Drain is all it has, and it doesn't hit hard enough against the opposition without Growth. After the fifth gym, there are Emolga upon Emolga and Deerling upon Deerling. Annoying.

WARNING END.

For reasons I have already stated, Hex is bad on Chandelure. While you're at it, try a Flash Fire one.

is this an in-game rating for grass types? if not competitively whimsicott and virizion are tied for #1

thekorean
6th August 2011, 2:45 AM
THE BELOW COMMENTS ARE MY OPINION. IF YOU WANT TO FLAME ME, REMEMBER YOUR CHILDHOOD AXIOM: IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING NICE TO SAY, DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL.

Lilligant is the best Grass type in Unova for reasons mentioned. Sawsbuck is second, for reasons stated by others. Serperior and Whimsicott are tied for third. Amoongus sucks.

I've used Whim once and it just loses its lustre the second you evolve it, the opposite of Lilligant. Giga Drain is all it has, and it doesn't hit hard enough against the opposition without Growth. After the fifth gym, there are Emolga upon Emolga and Deerling upon Deerling. Annoying.

WARNING END.

For reasons I have already stated, Hex is bad on Chandelure. While you're at it, try a Flash Fire one.
I meant Flash Fire. Its not flame body, its Flash Fire.

And why is Hex bad? Against psychic types or other ghost types, its absolutely devastating. I am not foolish enough to use Chandelure against Dark types.

poopoop
6th August 2011, 2:53 AM
I meant Flash Fire. Its not flame body, its Flash Fire.

And why is Hex bad? Against psychic types or other ghost types, its absolutely devastating. I am not foolish enough to use Chandelure against Dark types.

if you are using hex in-game i guess its ok

thekorean
6th August 2011, 3:16 AM
And casual battling.

I know Chandelure is not fast, but still Hex is a good move.

Shine
6th August 2011, 4:41 AM
Hex is a good move when the opponent is afflicted with a status effect.
Which doesn't always happens.

You need to use Will-o-Wisp for that, which
1. does not always hit
2. does not affect Fire-Types or those with Flash Fire

Also, that means Hex takes 2 turns to get 100 base power. Shadow Ball in 2 turns is 160 base power.
And W-o-W takes up 1 moveslot that could have been used for Energy Ball, which takes care of Water, Rock, and Ground, 3 of Chandelure's weaknesses.






I've used Whim once and it just loses its lustre the second you evolve it, the opposite of Lilligant. Giga Drain is all it has, and it doesn't hit hard enough against the opposition without Growth. After the fifth gym, there are Emolga upon Emolga and Deerling upon Deerling. Annoying.


Whim indeed isn't great for after the fifth Gym, unfortunately.
- Deerling & Emolga
- that Electric cave
- Flying & Ice gym

But it seems that you use Whim as a sweeper. It isn't a sweeper.
It's meant to be more of an annoyer. With Prankster ability, it saps foe's HP with Giga Drain/Toxic and Leech Seed while hiding behind a Sub. Add Shadow Ball for the last move just for coverage.

MetalFlygon08
6th August 2011, 5:14 AM
Hex does ok with Toxic Spikes Support. real easy setup

Zhanton
6th August 2011, 6:01 AM
What, what, what? Why all the hate on Lilligant? I used Lilligant in-game and it was without a doubt the powerhouse of my team, stronger even that Stoutland and Crustle, in my opinion. Sleep Powder allows it to set up with Leech Seed and then Quiver Dance, and then Petal Dance + Own Tempo is absolutely devastating. I personally opted for Giga Drain > Petal Dance, though, for more healing purposes.

Both the Petilil line and the Cottonee line are both adorable, but since I got White, I decided to go with Petilil. I'm hoping to use the Cottonee line in 'Grey'. Their design is so cute, and with Prankster and a good support movepool I feel it will be really handy. Speaking of Grass-types, I think the Grass-types this generation were all quite good, really, and as of late the Grass-type has shot up to my top 5 favourites. I loved the Foonguss line, not only in terms of design but the fact that they are quite bulky coupled with Spore means they can be quite a potent threat. The Deerling line is quite creative, though it and the Pansage line are probably my least favourite Grass-types this generation. I was really happy when they revealed Sewaddle, because it is so cute, and plus, it's a Bug/Grass type so yay. I was a bit disappointed at its evolutions, though.

As for Electric-types, being an arachnophobic, I couldn't help but feel a bit iffy about Galvantula. I do this Joltik is really cute and cuddly, though. The Eelektross' line isn't my favourite either, mainly due to their designs; however, I do love Emolga and Stunfisk. The former is the epitome of cuteness, while the latter is just so awkward that I can't help but love it, and plus, they both have quite unique types. Blitzle is really cool too, but I'm personally not the biggest fan of Zebstrika for some reason.

thekorean
6th August 2011, 6:27 AM
Hex is a good move when the opponent is afflicted with a status effect.
Which doesn't always happens.

You need to use Will-o-Wisp for that, which
1. does not always hit
2. does not affect Fire-Types or those with Flash Fire

Also, that means Hex takes 2 turns to get 100 base power. Shadow Ball in 2 turns is 160 base power.
And W-o-W takes up 1 moveslot that could have been used for Energy Ball, which takes care of Water, Rock, and Ground, 3 of Chandelure's weaknesses.

Of course, thats why I am not using Chandelure against fire type Pokemons. Who would? Unless they are also psychic types.

And Will O Wisp is accurate enough. Its not like its Dynamic Punch inaccurate, and its much more accurate than Hypnosis. Will O Wisp causes burns, and thats always a good thing, regardless of Hex. More often that not Will O Wisp and Hex will finish off any Psychic or Ghost types and Chandelure can take some hits. And there are no Ghost or Psychic type paired with fire with exception of Chandelure itself and Victini and Zen Mode Darmanitan, which are rare. And plus, previous Pokemon can use Thunderwave, a very accurate and reliable move, and then switch em out and Hex em.

manifesto
6th August 2011, 7:01 AM
Hex is just too conditional, Shadow Ball is a better all-purpose STAB.

thekorean
6th August 2011, 7:34 AM
My main STAB move for Chandelure is Flamethrower, thats the thing.

Endoplasmic Reticulum
6th August 2011, 7:36 AM
I have two STAB moves (shouldn't that be the most wise?). Flamethrower and Shadow Ball

Pokechan
6th August 2011, 9:37 AM
What is Sandile like? He has a interesting type and was considering using him, but I also like Scraggy. I have been hearing that Sandile becomes a beast later, but needs babying for a while.

The Oncoming Storm
6th August 2011, 11:33 AM
What is Sandile like? He has a interesting type and was considering using him, but I also like Scraggy. I have been hearing that Sandile becomes a beast later, but needs babying for a while.

It is worth the effort to train a sandile. If I was you id use both scrafty and sandile. Even though thats two darks you've got two pokes sooooooo strong they can handle almost anything in game.

Šew™
6th August 2011, 12:18 PM
Just so I don't get another somewhat harsh critic...I never criticized lilligant, I just explained why it cannot beat a sap-sipper sawsbuck using evidence and some opinion. Lilligant is a great pokemon with a shallow movepool and I love it. Sawsbuck is amazing because of horn leach, sap-sipper, and its nice attack stat. And my love daze strategy is an in-game strategy that works very well in stopping opponents, as it lowers the chance of being attacked. (I know having paralysis would work even better, but that would be another strategy. I've played since '98, I know what I'm doing.) So please, no more rude comments, let's just discuss gen 5 peacefully. I don't mind debate every now and again, just remember to be nice and respect people's opinions!

Anyways, as soon as I saw galvantula, I knew that I was gonna use it. I don't regret that decision. That thing is an absolutely amazing bug that has a wonderfully unique typing. I do believe "BuzzBolt" or "Bug Thunder" is possibly a lesser version of BeamBolt (I could be wrong, probably am) and I love it.

Sandile is another great pokemon. It's funny, my krookadile has the exact same move set as my garchomp...and it's likely my competitive krook and competitive 'chomp will have identical move sets, too. Plus, you get added coverage which complements many teams. Plus, nice attack and nice speed. Despite having one with intimidate, it seems like one with moxie would do well in-game.

CaptainCombusken
6th August 2011, 1:14 PM
Sawsbuck is better IMO. The Wider moveset does it for me. It can access Wild Charge, Horn leech, Jump Kick and Megahorn. That's a pretty cool moveset. Jump Kick already has good coverage, but then when you stick in a STAB Horn Leech... You get the picture. He's a pretty epic Pokemon, whose look is great too. I personally am not a huge fan of his Summer and Autumn forms, but as long as you keep him boxed when the seasons change, you should be fine. My only gripe is that he doesn't get Horn Leech until quite late.

Lilligant is nice, I get that, but I've never been a huge fan of Special attackers, especially ones with such a shallow movepool. It only gets Grass moves as special attacking options (I'm not counting Hidden Power). plus, I really don't lije Grass type's weaknesses.

Whimsicott is better. Good special attack, Excellent speed, Prankster. Just infinitely better.

Scrafty/Korrokodile. Both are awesome, and both are definitely able to be used of tow teams. Scrafty is a beast. It has two really useful STABS, Excellent defence, great attack, good movepool... It's the reason it's one of my favourite Pokemon.
And Krookodile. As soon as I saw that last move in its moveset, I smiled wickedly. Outrage is a great move. Korrokodile could be an excellent dragon killer. Give it Earthquake, Crunch and Outrage, and Hone Claws, along with Moxie as its ability. That's all it needs to be great. (I prefer Crunch over Foul Play so I can actually kill Psychics effectively.)

Zhanton
6th August 2011, 1:18 PM
^ In my opinion, though, it's really quite impossible to effectively compare Sawsbuck, Lilligant and Whimsicott. We have Sawsbuck which is built to attack on the physical side of the spectrum with access to a nice movepool, whereas we have Lilligant with a shallower movepool but access to Quiver Dance, with its main purpose being to hit on the Special side. And finally, there is Whimsicott, who, with Prankster and a good support movepool, is better as a support or annoyer Pokemon.

It's like comparing apples to onions to roast beef. Sure, they're all food, but they are all completely different and have varying uses.

nevertheless, Lilligant > Whimsicott > Sawsbuck

rocky505
6th August 2011, 3:53 PM
Anyone else find it funny how Whimsicott got much better attacking moves than Lilligant? I sometimes get a feeling they mixed up some of their moves.

gyaradosuseddragonrage!
6th August 2011, 4:34 PM
Yeah, Whim got Psychic, Shadow Ball, etc.

The best combination which is the most efficient is Shadow Ball/Flamethrower. Burn is always a good thing, but knocking out your opponent quicker is even better. Shadow Ball.

SasakiThePikachu
6th August 2011, 5:41 PM
I love my Whimsicott, but she is frail as holy hell. The only thing I'm ever certain of with her is that she'll hit first, and even though she's got a Rash nature so good Spec Atk, she's sadly not strong enough to really land any hurt on the opponent with her moves. Even Giga Drain and Leech Seed can't keep her around for long - she's too fragile to set up before she gets blasted. I've been raising a Venusaur with these same 2 moves, and he's a friggin BOULDER compared to my Whim.

No opinion on Lil yet; hoping to raise her when I get White version, and run an Own Tempo/Petal dance destroyer.

Endoplasmic Reticulum
6th August 2011, 5:48 PM
What is Sandile like? He has a interesting type and was considering using him, but I also like Scraggy. I have been hearing that Sandile becomes a beast later, but needs babying for a while.

Yeah Krookodile is pretty good. Not as good as I thought he would be, but perhaps I got him the wrong ability (I got him intimidate, not moxie)

Shine
6th August 2011, 5:51 PM
I love my Whimsicott, but she is frail as holy hell. The only thing I'm ever certain of with her is that she'll hit first, and even though she's got a Rash nature so good Spec Atk, she's sadly not strong enough to really land any hurt on the opponent with her moves. Even Giga Drain and Leech Seed can't keep her around for long - she's too fragile to set up before she gets blasted.



use Sub + Leech Seed + Prankster. Better yet, get the one with better set of IVs and EV train it.

Whimsy can last long enough when done correctly, which is one of the reason why it is quite popular in competitive.

And do not set up in front of something that can inflict Super Effective hit on it :p

Poke_Mania97
6th August 2011, 6:01 PM
whats a good move set for moltres and charizard? right now ive got these moves and i know they are stupid choices but i was an idiot back then...

Moltres - Relaxed nature Overheat,flamethrower,heat wave and sky attack
Charizard - Adamant nature flamethrower dragon pulse blast burn and earthquake

I want to know some good moves and these guys are more offensive than defensive. i dunno about getting rid of dragon pulse as charizard is from platinum and they no longer have it in Gen v as a tm
__________________

SasakiThePikachu
6th August 2011, 6:19 PM
use Sub + Leech Seed + Prankster. Better yet, get the one with better set of IVs and EV train it.

Whimsy can last long enough when done correctly, which is one of the reason why it is quite popular in competitive.

And do not set up in front of something that can inflict Super Effective hit on it :p

She is EV trained in SpAtk and SPD, but because I caught her wild (yeah yeah, lazy, I know) she might have crappy IVs for all I know. Which would certainly explain a lot.

Super effective? My Whimsy can barely take a neutral attack without OHKOing. It's embarrassing, really...

Never mind, lesson learned. I'm hoping Lilligant will be my Super Special Awesome grass type of gen V. Or maybe Sawsbuck, but I'm not raising one of them until Grey comes out...

Shine
6th August 2011, 6:22 PM
Sawsbuck is nice, I've used one before and I'm impressed with it.

Endoplasmic Reticulum
6th August 2011, 6:25 PM
Sawsbuck seems to have a cool typing but it doesn't really appeal to me

Poke_Mania97
6th August 2011, 6:29 PM
can someone help me with the movesets please :( i need help!

rocky505
6th August 2011, 6:31 PM
can someone help me with the movesets please :( i need help! http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=513365&page=27

thekorean
6th August 2011, 8:22 PM
I am training my newly evolved Gallade, and I cant decide on Brick Break or Psycho Cut. Both are STAB moves and are physical moves. But Brick Break has 5 point advantage over Psycho Cut.

Poke_Mania97
6th August 2011, 8:32 PM
I am training my newly evolved Gallade, and I cant decide on Brick Break or Psycho Cut. Both are STAB moves and are physical moves. But Brick Break has 5 point advantage over Psycho Cut.

i think brick break is better, i like both, but u can get rid of those pokes that use protect :) so u have 5 more better base damage and a secondary effect that will be beneficial

My new question : for charizard i have Dragon pulse, earthquake and flamethrower, but i cant decide. shall i get rid of blast burn and replace it with focus blast/air slash or shall i keep it

poopoop
6th August 2011, 8:33 PM
brick break it covers more stuff

thekorean
6th August 2011, 8:34 PM
I guess I can use Night Slash to cover Ghost and Psychic.

Endoplasmic Reticulum
6th August 2011, 9:02 PM
I am training my newly evolved Gallade, and I cant decide on Brick Break or Psycho Cut. Both are STAB moves and are physical moves. But Brick Break has 5 point advantage over Psycho Cut.

I think you should have both.

Ruby Blue
6th August 2011, 9:05 PM
Well if you don't have another Fighting Move, go with Brick Break.


You should replace it with Close Combat ASAP tho.

thekorean
6th August 2011, 9:31 PM
^Definitely, but thats not until lvl50 or somewhere around there.

Silent Conversation
6th August 2011, 10:19 PM
thekorean, what's your current move set for your Gallade? Because unless the other three moves you have are all spectacular, I recommend keeping both Brick Break and Psycho Cut, as they're both amazing STAB physical moves.

The Oncoming Storm
6th August 2011, 10:22 PM
Yea both moves work well together so using both makes perfect sense

thekorean
6th August 2011, 10:28 PM
thekorean, what's your current move set for your Gallade? Because unless the other three moves you have are all spectacular, I recommend keeping both Brick Break and Psycho Cut, as they're both amazing STAB physical moves.

Leaf Blade (I know, but its such a nice move...and I find ground pokemon to be common and very pesky)
Brick Break
Psycho Cut
Sword Dance

Now I can cover:
Poison
Steel
Rock
Ice
Ground
Water
Dark
Fighting
Normal

Thats tons of pokemons covered.

arceus7
6th August 2011, 10:54 PM
get rid of sword dance for now. Its not really needed and you can replace Sword dance .and brick break and then put them back on since they are Tms/

The Oncoming Storm
6th August 2011, 10:58 PM
Leaf Blade (I know, but its such a nice move...and I find ground pokemon to be common and very pesky)
Brick Break
Psycho Cut
Sword Dance

Now I can cover:
Poison
Steel
Rock
Ice
Ground
Water
Dark
Fighting
Normal

Thats tons of pokemons covered.

This is the moveset i have planned for mine. This works perfectly.

Shine
7th August 2011, 2:18 AM
my Gallade plays critical, with Stone Edge, Night Slash, and Psycho Cut, with Close Combat as the last move. Adamant Nature of course, with Scope Lens attached.

Now I wish it can get Sniper or Super Luck as ability.....

KickAsh
7th August 2011, 4:57 AM
My Gallade set is Swords Dance/Close Combat/Ice Punch/Psycho Cut @ Scope Lens. Swords Dance to up your Attack, obviously. Close Combat for STAB, Ice Punch for coverage, and Psycho Cut for STAB (and also critical hit trolling). It works well, although Ghost types kinda force a switch, unless you've used Swords Dance two or three times or it's Gengar.

Congratulations on choosing Gallade. He won't let you down unless you're disappointed that he sweeps so much none of your other Pokemon get used

The Oncoming Storm
7th August 2011, 5:29 AM
My Gallade set is Swords Dance/Close Combat/Ice Punch/Psycho Cut @ Scope Lens. Swords Dance to up your Attack, obviously. Close Combat for STAB, Ice Punch for coverage, and Psycho Cut for STAB (and also critical hit trolling). It works well, although Ghost types kinda force a switch, unless you've used Swords Dance two or three times or it's Gengar.

Congratulations on choosing Gallade. He won't let you down unless you're disappointed that he sweeps so much none of your other Pokemon get used

I cant wait till I get my Gallade to have him sweep on my ev team. He will be my in my fifth gen competitive team

gyaradosuseddragonrage!
7th August 2011, 6:24 AM
Swords Dance/Close Combat/Shadow Sneak/Stone Edge is my vote.

poopoop
7th August 2011, 6:38 AM
mine is
ice punch
bulk up
drain punch
T wave

Šew™
7th August 2011, 12:07 PM
I have one of Reno's sets, it just doesn't have as nice an EV and IV spread...it is an in-game one.

Adamant nature
-swords dance
-close combat
-night slash
-psycho cut

Yeah, original, I know, but I don't have overlapping coverage (no type is covered twice) and complete coverage.

SasakiThePikachu
7th August 2011, 3:27 PM
My Gallade was always pretty meh. I find him too slow and frail to be one of my best...and this was on a team that included Houndoom, Lanturn, Leafeon, and Kabutops.

His movepool and attack stat are very nice, though.

Zenotwapal
7th August 2011, 3:38 PM
I wish Charizard had a better movepool...
And he was Fire Dragon instead of Fire Flying. SR rapes him up the butt

Ruby Blue
7th August 2011, 4:42 PM
My Gallade was always pretty meh. I find him too slow and frail to be one of my best...and this was on a team that included Houndoom, Lanturn, Leafeon, and Kabutops.

His movepool and attack stat are very nice, though.

I'm a little bit speechless here...

Fair enough for Leafeon and Lanturn, but was your Gallade really weaker than a Houndoom?

Typhlosionvsworld
7th August 2011, 4:45 PM
I wish Charizard had a better movepool...
And he was Fire Dragon instead of Fire Flying. SR rapes him up the butt

Yeah, charizard can't learn any special moves that truly cover his weaknesses.

Grei
7th August 2011, 6:16 PM
When did this turn into a general Pokemon discussion? We're still in the 5th Gen section, aren't we? I don't know if this is the place to discuss Gallade or Charizard...

Can I say that Sawk is extremely badass? Literally, I had no idea he was this good. I dunno about Throh (since its slow(er)), but Sawk is incredible. It's got reasonable defense and destructive attack strength.

poopoop
7th August 2011, 6:28 PM
virizion is cool, it can take flamethrower and ice beams without getting 1HKO, and i like its giga drain and calm mind

Poke_Mania97
7th August 2011, 6:31 PM
When did this turn into a general Pokemon discussion? We're still in the 5th Gen section, aren't we? I don't know if this is the place to discuss Gallade or Charizard...

Can I say that Sawk is extremely badass? Literally, I had no idea he was this good. I dunno about Throh (since its slow(er)), but Sawk is incredible. It's got reasonable defense and destructive attack strength.

I think you are half right, i mean it doesnt sau (New!) Official Generation 5 pokemon discussion Thread' , but then again all these moveset questions should be on the help thread/ the RMT thread

rocky505
7th August 2011, 7:13 PM
When did this turn into a general Pokemon discussion? We're still in the 5th Gen section, aren't we? I don't know if this is the place to discuss Gallade or Charizard...

Can I say that Sawk is extremely badass? Literally, I had no idea he was this good. I dunno about Throh (since its slow(er)), but Sawk is incredible. It's got reasonable defense and destructive attack strength. Throh is actually pretty good. I have a bulky EV trained one. Payback most of the time OHKOes psychics and Throh has nice Spdef and HP to take a psychic move and if it's physical bulk up handles that.

Paradoxe
7th August 2011, 7:45 PM
Has anyone used a Jellicent on their team?

Especially with Surf/Will-O-Wisp/Hex/Recover?

I'll tell you, the W-O-W+Hex is deadly, and Surf will finish them off if they didn't faint the first time. It may be pretty frail, but it's Sp. Attack and Sp. Defense makes up for it.

Poke_Mania97
7th August 2011, 8:01 PM
i just did a triple battle with this person, and they used some pretty smart strategy!

the battle had just started, so it was the first turn, and they had Throh, Terrakion and Weavile.

their weavile used Beat up on terrakion and it raised terrakions attack SIX times! it then used rock slide on my team and OHKO'd them

Ruby Blue
7th August 2011, 8:01 PM
I dunno.

In-Game it seems decent, but competitivley Hex isn't that great an option :/
A lot of pokémon will be switching because of burn, and if your opponent has a cleric then you've just wasted a slot.

Of course if you're not a competitive player then that was kinda useless... :S

Personally, I prefer Shadow Ball for having a high BP from the start.

Accipitri
7th August 2011, 8:31 PM
I agree with Rocky, I also have a bulky one with the set Storm Throw / Stone Edge / Payback / Bulk Up. He's a boss in rotations when partnered up with my Mandibuzz. I just wish he could get Drain Punch.

@PokeMania: I've heard a lot of people using that strategy. I've been thinking about using a similar one with forcing Tauros or Primeape's Anger Point to go off with Frost Breath or Storm Throw but the pokemon that can learn those moves wouldn't work well with it, I think :/

Grei
7th August 2011, 8:35 PM
Throh is actually pretty good. I have a bulky EV trained one. Payback most of the time OHKOes psychics and Throh has nice Spdef and HP to take a psychic move and if it's physical bulk up handles that.

Neat. I almost used Throh (it being my game's resident Oni-karate-Pokemon) but decided against it because it didn't seem tank-y enough to justify its slowness. Plus, I like Sawk more. Though if it's as tank-y as you say it can be, I might try using a Throh at some point.


Has anyone used a Jellicent on their team?

Especially with Surf/Will-O-Wisp/Hex/Recover?

I'll tell you, the W-O-W+Hex is deadly, and Surf will finish them off if they didn't faint the first time. It may be pretty frail, but it's Sp. Attack and Sp. Defense makes up for it.

I used a Jellicent with the Will-O-Wisp + Hex combo. I personally didn't like how long it took to set up. I also didn't have Surf on it (I had a Seismitoad on my team to do that), so my set was Scald/Toxic/Shadow Ball/Recover. I used Hex for a little while but came to like Shadow Ball's immediate power more than Hex's set-up strength.

I love Jellicent. I used mine as a Special Attacker and she was great. Though I should have used her more defensively. (Mine was Modest.)

arceus7
7th August 2011, 8:48 PM
you get steadfast :]

The Oncoming Storm
7th August 2011, 8:49 PM
Well since we were talking about fifth gen movesets it perfectly fit into this disscussion. BUt anyways I used a jellicent with surf, shadowball, wil-o-wisp, and recover.

arceus7
7th August 2011, 9:16 PM
willow wisP hex gets more usage in competetive rather than ingame as ingame it takes way too long

SasakiThePikachu
7th August 2011, 9:29 PM
I'm a little bit speechless here...

Fair enough for Leafeon and Lanturn, but was your Gallade really weaker than a Houndoom?

Yes, he really was - my Houndoom was faster, and his Sp Atk was so impressive that he could OHKO so many things just using Dark Pulse or Fire Blast. I'd pick him as my sturdier poke any day. Overall, I was a little...unimpressed...with Gallade.

Sawk is evil to battle against. Pure evil. And giving the thing Sturdy was evil on GF's part.

And if it wasn't so ugly, I'd totally be using one to pwn the game.

gyaradosuseddragonrage!
7th August 2011, 9:36 PM
Sawk. 125 base attack and a 90 base power attack, caught right off the bat at Level 18, just before a gym where it is super-effective against. BROKEN.

MetalFlygon08
7th August 2011, 10:18 PM
Thankfully it's shallow level-up movepool prevents it from truely breaking the game.

As Stone Edge/Rock Slide/Earthquake isn't available early in the game.

KickAsh
7th August 2011, 10:23 PM
Yes, he really was - my Houndoom was faster, and his Sp Atk was so impressive that he could OHKO so many things just using Dark Pulse or Fire Blast. I'd pick him as my sturdier poke any day. Overall, I was a little...unimpressed...with Gallade.

Well, to be fair, you really can't compare Houndoom with Gallade if you're talking about special attackers. If you're using Gallade as a special attacker, you're doing it wrong.
Gallade's Attack is so impressive that he can OHKO a lot of things with Close Combat or Psycho Cut. Houndoom's Sp.Atk is so impressive that it can OHKO a lot with Dark Pulse or Fire Pulse. They do different things well.
Although Gallade's Attack is higher than Houndoom's Sp.Atk so...


Thankfully it's shallow level-up movepool prevents it from truely breaking the game.

As Stone Edge/Rock Slide/Earthquake isn't available early in the game.
Especially since Sawk's level-up movepool consists of Fighting, Fighting, and more Fighting.

gyaradosuseddragonrage!
8th August 2011, 2:43 AM
Rock Tomb and Dig are substitutes early on, but they're both stupid.

BCVM22
8th August 2011, 2:50 AM
Dig is an 80 BP physical Ground-type attack. Discarding it as a fill-in before you have access to the big guns just because it takes two turns - one of which puts you out of harm's way most of the time - is foolish.

manifesto
8th August 2011, 2:50 AM
Throh was always helpful during my playthrough. Competitively he wasn't as useful. He's mostly a revenge spammer to be honest.



Dig is an 80 BP Ground-type attack. Discarding it as a fill-in before you have access to the big guns just because it takes two turns - one of which puts you out of harm's way most of the time - is foolish.

I agree with this 100%. In-game anything is viable. I like to use Dig, Fly, Dive, Bounce etc. In-game because they're usually a good savior for a turn.

gyaradosuseddragonrage!
8th August 2011, 3:08 AM
I was mostly referring to Rock Tomb.

And Dig is good, but it has bad coverage alongside fighting moves. It IS stupid compared to Earthquake obviously though.

arceus7
8th August 2011, 5:23 AM
give it smack down?

arceus7
8th August 2011, 5:24 AM
you can get rock slide early though ...

thekorean
8th August 2011, 5:31 AM
Fly is definitely a tremendous attack.

95 power? Very good attack. Who cares if it takes 2 turns, if the others cant use skuUppercut you are good.

manifesto
8th August 2011, 5:33 AM
I love fly, I use it anyway. Even if it isn't suggested.

Shine
8th August 2011, 5:52 AM
Fly is definitely a tremendous attack.

95 power? Very good attack. Who cares if it takes 2 turns, if the others cant use skuUppercut you are good.

and outside battle, it takes you to any city you have visited xD
btw its base power is 90, not 95. 95 is its accuracy.

but assuming the Fly user can take a hit, Aerial Ace is still better in terms of power.
Fly is 90 over 2 turns and can miss, Aerial Ace is 120 over 2 turns and cannot miss.

thekorean
8th August 2011, 6:03 AM
I really only count Fly as one move since you cant be hit during the first turn.

Accipitri
8th August 2011, 6:05 AM
same as thekorean, unless you're impatient it's fine to use Fly/etc ingame IMO

thekorean
8th August 2011, 6:08 AM
And even if the other Pokemon knows Sky Uppercut chances are you are using a flying type pokemon and the other is a fighting type meaning Fly will deal crazy damage.

Accipitri
8th August 2011, 6:13 AM
Sky Uppercut is only learned by three uncommon pokemon and Gust and Twister suck, the only 'real' threats are Thunder for Fly and EQ for Dig and you can just predict those.

Shine
8th August 2011, 6:14 AM
I really only count Fly as one move since you cant be hit during the first turn.

It IS only 1 move ;)

Aerial Ace is 2 moves over 2 turns, which makes it stronger over 2 turns (60 + 60 = 120)
but Fly is 0 + 90 = 90.

And it's okay if you need Fly, I never said you must remove it as it is one of the most important HM in the game (other than Surf), I just say in the end it is still weaker than other moves :)








By the way, while we're on the topic of Flying-Type, is there anyone here who use Unfezant?

Mr.Munchlax
8th August 2011, 6:42 AM
I'm really considering restarting my White game because I already beat the main game and there are a # of pokemon I want to try raising that would be ridiculous to try and start now like Sewaddle or Purloin. Also, since I was so capture happy in my White version, I want to try to catch less pokemon so I'd have less to train. However, I'm not sure since it took me forever to get to this point, I'd hate to reset my dream world account, & I have a shiny Gigalith. Does anyone have any opinions?

arceus7
8th August 2011, 8:17 AM
?yeah, dont restart, and catch the final evolved forms.
?
Havent played the game much have you]

look for a couple dittos or synchornizers and get on it, never restart your main game less you want to loose all your pokemon. my black has almost all the pokemon

Grei
8th August 2011, 8:41 AM
By the way, while we're on the topic of Flying-Type, is there anyone here who use Unfezant?

Me, actually.

I know I once said that Unfezant sucks and is one of the worst birds we've had yet, but that was before I actually used it, when I was just considering its movepool and stats. It's actually very good, and mine sees a lot of usage. (I like the females better than the males, personally). You just have to ignore all of the stupid Special attacks and give it a physical moveset.

My Jolly Unfezant's moveset is:

-Return: Very powerful STAB move.
-Fly: Another powerful STAB move, also a must-have because of it's use for transportation.
-Quick Attack: STAB priority move, good for killing off Sturdy-ers and other Pokemon that happen to survive Fly or Aerial Ace (since not much survives Return).
-Aerial Ace: STAB no-miss move. Good for quick kills, as well as the aforementioned economical power. May give way to U-Turn once I get it.

With Super Luck as its ability, and the Scope Lens being held.

Honestly, this bird is wonderful. Never mind that it doesn't get coverage--Return hits everything for neutral damage, and powerful damage at that. The only thing Unfezant can't hit are Rock-types, which they wouldn't be fighting anyway. In its moveset could also go U-Turn (as mentioned), Facade, Roost, or other status moves (Toxic and Protect come to mind).

I love this bird. It gets a lot of crap for being a failed special attacker, but when it's treated like a physical attacker, it honestly is worth using. I recommend it to anyone who is smart enough to give it the correct moves (an all-physical moveset can be gained as soon as you get your 6th Badge).

Accipitri
8th August 2011, 9:00 AM
I used Unfezant in my Black playthrough. His moveset I think was Fly, Quick Attack (maybe return), Air Slash, and Roost. Not entirely ideal, but for ingame he was great. He hit most things decently, and even of he didn't he probably has my favorite design, compared to Pidgeot, Noctowl, Swellow/Pelliper, and Staraptor.

arceus7
8th August 2011, 9:15 AM
staraptor is better to be honest . But Unfezant can really abuse two turn moves well coughBAMFSKYATTACKcough I used him in the wifi train with a power herb and he was outdamaging staraptors brave bird.

Give it quick attack return ,sky attack and a type coverage move and it is really effective.

Aurath8
8th August 2011, 6:30 PM
staraptor is better to be honest . But Unfezant can really abuse two turn moves well coughBAMFSKYATTACKcough I used him in the wifi train with a power herb and he was outdamaging staraptors brave bird.

Give it quick attack return ,sky attack and a type coverage move and it is really effective.

What no-one seems to realise is that Unfezant doesn't have any type coverage apart from it's STAB moves. Staraptor was blessed with Close Combat allowing to hit all but Rotom and Zapdos. Swellow had the amazing speed and power of Guts. Compared to them Unfezant is slow, weak, and while it does have more bulk, it's not nearly enough to be as defensive as Mandibuzz. It's movepool beyond it's STABs are awful and even has trouble finding a decent flying STAB, only managing 140 power over two turns maximum. Let's hope tutors give it something to use.

Endoplasmic Reticulum
8th August 2011, 7:34 PM
In my opinion, Unfezant is the worst regional bird

Grei
8th August 2011, 8:49 PM
I dunno. Pidgeot is worse than Unfezant from what I hear.


What no-one seems to realise is that Unfezant doesn't have any type coverage apart from it's STAB moves. Staraptor was blessed with Close Combat allowing to hit all but Rotom and Zapdos. Swellow had the amazing speed and power of Guts. Compared to them Unfezant is slow, weak, and while it does have more bulk, it's not nearly enough to be as defensive as Mandibuzz. It's movepool beyond it's STABs are awful and even has trouble finding a decent flying STAB, only managing 140 power over two turns maximum. Let's hope tutors give it something to use.

Despite all of this, though, Unfezant is still a good Pokemon.

-It's lack of coverage seems to be the catchphrase of the 5th Gen, with tons of Pokemon having barren movepools. Unfezant can at least hit everything but Rock-types (which, again, it shouldn't be fighting in the first place) for at least neutral damage, and an STAB max happiness Return is nothing to scoff at.

-This is in-game discussion, so being able to hit "major threats" of the metagame is irrelevant.

-Staraptor, Swellow, and Mandibuzz were built differently, indeed. Unfezant's not "slow and weak," though. It's "slower" and "weaker" than Staraptor and Swellow, maybe, but it is only "slow" or "weak" as according to a subjective definition. My Jolly Unfezant tends to out-speed most things, and it hits them pretty hard.

-Its movepool is really lacking, yes. (Though this is true for a LOT of Unova's Pokemon, as stated above.) Had it received Brave Bird, or even Drill Peck, it would be better. It having to rely on Fly and Sky Attack isn't all that bad, though. I'm surprised it didn't get Hurricane, honestly, with how Special-heavy its movepool is.

Endoplasmic Reticulum
8th August 2011, 9:17 PM
I dunno. Pidgeot is worse than Unfezant from what I hear.

Nah I've used one. It's okay

Paradoxe
8th August 2011, 9:21 PM
Nah I've used one. It's okay

All Pidgeot is really good for is Speed, and it's not really even that good at that.

Unfezant has the same base Speed as Pidgeot, and has even higher Attack stats.

I'd say Unfezant is better, IMO.

Endoplasmic Reticulum
8th August 2011, 9:23 PM
All Pidgeot is really good for is Speed, and it's not really even that good at that.

Unfezant has the same base Speed as Pidgeot, and has even higher Attack stats.

I'd say Unfezant is better, IMO.

But Pidgeot has better moves

firemaster13
8th August 2011, 10:46 PM
I think staraptor is the better than pidgeot and unfezant

Aurath8
8th August 2011, 10:53 PM
Despite all of this, though, Unfezant is still a good Pokemon.

-It's lack of coverage seems to be the catchphrase of the 5th Gen, with tons of Pokemon having barren movepools. Unfezant can at least hit everything but Rock-types (which, again, it shouldn't be fighting in the first place) for at least neutral damage, and an STAB max happiness Return is nothing to scoff at.

The generation has just begun so many pokemon have barren movepools. And while it can hit everything with it's Normal STAB, that's a job that can be done better by Bouffalant or Stoutland. It has little supereffective coverage.


-Staraptor, Swellow, and Mandibuzz were built differently, indeed. Unfezant's not "slow and weak," though. It's "slower" and "weaker" than Staraptor and Swellow, maybe, but it is only "slow" or "weak" as according to a subjective definition. My Jolly Unfezant tends to out-speed most things, and it hits them pretty hard.

As a regional bird, by that I mean compared to Starraptor and Swellow, then it is slow and weak.


-Its movepool is really lacking, yes. (Though this is true for a LOT of Unova's Pokemon, as stated above.) Had it received Brave Bird, or even Drill Peck, it would be better. It having to rely on Fly and Sky Attack isn't all that bad, though. I'm surprised it didn't get Hurricane, honestly, with how Special-heavy its movepool is.

Yes it is. If the best way of damaging opponents come from a two-turn attack(and one that doesn't render you invincible for a turn) it doesn't have a good STAB period.

Gelatini Jejunator
8th August 2011, 10:59 PM
I'd say Staraptor and Swellow are tied for best regional bird, for obvious reasons. Then comes Unfeazant. I'm not sure about whether Pidgeot is better than Noctowl, but I like Noctowl more, so I'll say that.

Pyrax
8th August 2011, 11:15 PM
I prefer Noctowl, it might have a lower BST, but it can learn plenty of Psychic attacks.
Speaking of regional birds, I prefer Fearow to Pidgeot due to the fact that Fearow is faster and has better attack (100 Base Speed & 90 Base Attack, compared to Pidgeot's 91 Base Speed & 80 Base Attack). I also prefer Fearow's movepool.

Grey Wind
8th August 2011, 11:24 PM
For Flying types, I think Braviary is wonderful. Rufflet is a pain- I can't recall mine actually defeating anything- but once it evolves, it's a beast. Great Attack, good movepool, not too slow, and alright Defenses. And an awesome design to boot. Although it does evolve late, which is annoying.

Accipitri
8th August 2011, 11:31 PM
Even as a Rufflet mine was pretty awesome, and it has enough bulk to survive a hit and set up Tailwind to support the team (my team was full of slow mons, Emboar, Crustle, Cofagrigus, and Jellicent all appreciated it). Return / Brave Bird / Shadow Claw for attacking moves.

Endoplasmic Reticulum
8th August 2011, 11:36 PM
I think staraptor is the better than pidgeot and unfezant

Well...duh. I was just debating with him as to whcih one is the WORST. Pidgeot or Unfezant. Here's my order.

1.) Noctowl
2.) Staraptor
3.) Swellow
4.) Pidgeot
5.) Unfezant

Grey Wind
8th August 2011, 11:41 PM
Even as a Rufflet mine was pretty awesome, and it has enough bulk to survive a hit and set up Tailwind to support the team (my team was full of slow mons, Emboar, Crustle, Cofagrigus, and Jellicent all appreciated it). Return / Brave Bird / Shadow Claw for attacking moves.
I used Brave Bird/Fly/Crush Claw/Super Power for my Braviary.


Well...duh. I was just debating with him as to whcih one is the WORST. Pidgeot or Unfezant. Here's my order.

1.) Noctowl
2.) Staraptor
3.) Swellow
4.) Pidgeot
5.) Unfezant
I'd say:
-Swellow
-Staraptor
-Noctowl
-Unfezant
-Pidgeot

In order of favouritism, with Swellow being my best. I used Honchkrow and Braviary instead of a regioanl bird, and I much preferred them.

Endoplasmic Reticulum
8th August 2011, 11:55 PM
I've only really liked Noctowl and Staraptor as flying Pokemon. But I use Swellow quite often because there aren't that many good flying types in Hoenn

Grei
9th August 2011, 12:12 AM
Nah I've used one. It's okay

Have you used Unfezant?


The generation has just begun so many pokemon have barren movepools. And while it can hit everything with it's Normal STAB, that's a job that can be done better by Bouffalant or Stoutland. It has little supereffective coverage.

Lilligant can hit Ground-types exceptionally well. Does that make Serperior "bad?"
Besides, Stoutland and Bouffalant aren't Flying-types.

And yeah, it has poor coverage. But that alone does not make Unfezant bad.


As a regional bird, by that I mean compared to Starraptor and Swellow, then it is slow and weak.

And once again, that is subjective. Compared to Staraptor and Swellow, Unfezant is "weaker" and "slower." It is not "weak" or "slow" by any measurable definition. There's a big difference.


Yes it is. If the best way of damaging opponents come from a two-turn attack(and one that doesn't render you invincible for a turn) it doesn't have a good STAB period.

That's entirely subjective as well. You may have something against two-turn attacks, but I certainly don't. If a Pokemon has access to strong STAB moves, then they have "good STAB," regardless of if the move takes two turns. In the metagame, this is bad, but again we're talking on in-game terms, where two-turn moves are in some cases preferable to single-turn moves. Sky Attack is one of the strongest Flying-type moves, and Unfezant can use it. If Sky Attack sucks because it takes two turns to complete, then Brave Bird sucks because it causes recoil, and Close Combat sucks because it lowers your stats. :/

My list of birds:

1. Staraptor (awesome attack and speed, and good movepool)
2. Swellow (amazing speed and good movepool)
3. Unfezant (decent stats and mediocre movepool)
4. Fearow (mediocre stats, nice movepool)
5. Noctowl (awesome movepool but poor stats)
6. Pidgeot (mediocre stats and movepool)

Endoplasmic Reticulum
9th August 2011, 1:32 AM
Have you used Unfezant?
Yes I've used it too

Shine
9th August 2011, 4:20 AM
The only thing Unfezant can't hit are Rock-types, which they wouldn't be fighting anyway.


Steel-Types says hi ;)







Unfezant....I dislike it because of its small movepool.

I do have a plan to use it, though. But only when I get the time to breed one.
Why breed? Read my comment below.

Anyway, apparently many people here forgot that Unfezant gets Steel Wing through breeding :p
Not on the same level as Close Combat, but hey, remember that before 4th gen that's one of the most common move on Flying-Types, as it is their only way to deal damage to Rock-Types.




I'm planning for mine to have Aerial Ace, Return, U-Turn, and Steel Wing.
Jolly Nature, with Super Luck as its ability.

Grei
9th August 2011, 4:39 AM
Steel-Types says hi ;)

Forgot about them.


Anyway, apparently many people here forgot that Unfezant gets Steel Wing through breeding :p
Not on the same level as Close Combat, but hey, remember that before 4th gen that's one of the most common move on Flying-Types, as it is their only way to deal damage to Rock-Types.

I never made that connection! I was fully aware of how my Unfezant could have had Steel Wing had I bred for it, but I never realized that that meant it could hit Steel-types.

I feel stupid now.


I'm planning for mine to have Aerial Ace, Return, U-Turn, and Steel Wing.
Jolly Nature, with Super Luck as its ability.

Nice moveset. This is probably the best set it can have at this point in time.

Accipitri
9th August 2011, 4:42 AM
Steel Wing would still be resisted, but Steel is super effective on Rock (and Ice I suppose)

JD
9th August 2011, 5:11 AM
I've taken quite a liking to the Minccino line I might even consider using one on my new in game team with this moveset.

Cinccino
Jolly Nature
Thunder Wave
Return
U-Turn
Wake Up Slap/Tail Slap

So is it worth using or?

Endoplasmic Reticulum
9th August 2011, 5:20 AM
I think you should get Wake Up Slap because you already have a normal move. Plus it gives you more coverage

thekorean
9th August 2011, 5:48 AM
Braviary is a damn beast. Screw all other Normal Flying.

yeminied
9th August 2011, 5:52 AM
I've taken quite a liking to the Minccino line I might even consider using one on my new in game team with this moveset.

Cinccino
Jolly Nature
Thunder Wave
Return
U-Turn
Wake Up Slap/Tail Slap

So is it worth using or?

Definitely. Cinccino served me very well, Bullet Seed and Rock Blast work well with Tail Slap getting that great Technician boost which mine had.

Šew™
9th August 2011, 9:41 AM
Cinccino makes a great sub-breaker with the technician and all. However, it does look like a nice in-game set. My recommendation would be wake-up slap or a multiple hit move other than tail slap (since that would be a redundancy), like rock blast...which may be better for overall in-game coverage.

The cinccino line has impressed me, too. It'll become very popular if it's released in DW, if it isn't already released.

Grey Wind
9th August 2011, 12:36 PM
Oh god Cinccino. They annoyed me so much in-game. They are excellent to use though, extremely irksome. Sing, Wake-up-slap, Tail Slap and some other filler. Ugh.

gyaradosuseddragonrage!
9th August 2011, 3:46 PM
Steel Wing hits Rock, not Steel SE.

Cinccino is best with Skill Link, if you can get one.

Ruby Blue
9th August 2011, 4:10 PM
Skill Link is Dream World exclusive :/

Typhlosionvsworld
9th August 2011, 4:19 PM
Shell Smash Skill Link Cloyster is way too overused. On PO, every Bob, Jill, and Jackie is using one.

Universe Chaser
10th August 2011, 4:10 AM
Shell Smash Skill Link Cloyster is way too overused. On PO, every Bob, Jill, and Jackie is using one.

That may be because it's great...but yeah, I agree. I stopped using SS Cloyster after I was countered at every turn.

R_N
10th August 2011, 7:10 AM
That may be because it's great...but yeah, I agree. I stopped using SS Cloyster after I was countered at every turn.

The funny thing about Shell Smash cloyster is that most people prefer not to risk the Shell Smash and just try to destroy with normal attacks.
Turns out Cloyster is kind of naturally a nice Pokemon to use!

arceus7
10th August 2011, 6:40 PM
shell smash+focus sash+skill link+


1 shell smash= outspeeding stuff= you get a turn to abuse things like icicle spear or a water move ( waterfall/razor shell) and you can OHKO things . Water+ Ice gives nice SE and Neutral coverage

KickAsh
10th August 2011, 7:26 PM
Don't forget Rock Blast.

Grei
10th August 2011, 8:09 PM
Has anyone else here used Zen Mode Darmanitan? I've used two Sheer Force Darmanitan to great success, but I'm just now trying out the Zen Mode Darmanitan. I have to say, it's really interesting. It's a tricky ability to get the hang of. I would never use it in the metagame, but in-game, what do you all think of it?

rocky505
10th August 2011, 8:58 PM
Has anyone else here used Zen Mode Darmanitan? I've used two Sheer Force Darmanitan to great success, but I'm just now trying out the Zen Mode Darmanitan. I have to say, it's really interesting. It's a tricky ability to get the hang of. I would never use it in the metagame, but in-game, what do you all think of it? Oh god no. I hate the thing. Zen mode is basically a useless ability.

arceus7
10th August 2011, 9:18 PM
I used it, difficult to get a hang of but it works well in the subway.

However on darmanitan as frail as he is defensivly its really hard to keep him alive, I had to use substitute and protect in his set( at One point I think I added toxic and just used overheat.

uRocky! I want my Ep UBERFISK !

rocky505
10th August 2011, 9:27 PM
uRocky! I want my Ep UBERFISK ! What are you talking about?

arceus7
10th August 2011, 10:04 PM
earth power uberfisk, I want it now .,

Šew™
10th August 2011, 10:17 PM
I don't blame ya...

Speaking of stunfisk, I know I've criticized it before, but all this talk about it lately has just made me realize that I liked it the first time I used it. I am glad it gets earth power, I love its STABs (and thus unique typing), and I love its movepool. For some reason, surf just fits it so perfectly...any other opinions not based on looks?

rocky505
10th August 2011, 10:34 PM
earth power uberfisk, I want it now ., You can't have my ItsATrap! I love him.

Accipitri
10th August 2011, 10:35 PM
I love that it can get Earth Power, Discharge, AND Surf. It seems like it could be used pretty effectively in doubles/triples with good partner support.

Endless
10th August 2011, 10:45 PM
I love that it can get Earth Power, Discharge, AND Surf. It seems like it could be used pretty effectively in doubles/triples with good partner support.

I'm not sure about that. Stunfisk is weak to both Surf and EQ, two very common attacks in double/triple. You could use a Balloon to get rid of EQ but you're still stuck with Surf.

rocky505
10th August 2011, 10:49 PM
I'm not sure about that. Stunfisk is weak to both Surf and EQ, two very common attacks in double/triple. You could use a Balloon to get rid of EQ but you're still stuck with Surf. Skill swap it Water Absorb or Storm Drain.

Accipitri
10th August 2011, 10:51 PM
That's what I meant with support, although I can't think of anything that would work well with it. Maybe use Sand Veil...?

arceus7
10th August 2011, 10:52 PM
surf is dangerous to your allies as is discharge. Thunderbolt is a better option, wish it learned ice beam.

Breed your its a trap I want an earth power modest stunfisk!

rocky505
10th August 2011, 10:55 PM
surf is dangerous to your allies as is discharge. Thunderbolt is a better option, wish it learned ice beam.

Breed your its a trap I want an earth power modest stunfisk! No Im not breeding it. Just go catch a Corsola and train it until it learns Earth Power and breed a Stunfisk with it.