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TimmahX
27th October 2010, 9:27 PM
Hello everyone. I'm planning out a team that I hope to use in Standard Tier. One of my friends started a chain with a few of my other friends where we have to make a team using our favorite pokemon from each generation, plus our favorite pokemon for a lead. Unfortunately, my first three favorite pokemon didn't have much to offer to the team or had gaping weaknesses, so I went with my fourth favorite. Any feedback and advice would be appreciated, as well as a verdict on whether or not this team is fair for Standard Tier.

http://www.serebii.net/blackwhite/pokemon/598.png @ Leftovers
• Title: Lead Tank
• Steel Thorns.
• Impish
• 252 HP, 252 SPDef, 4 Def.

- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Spikes

http://www.arkeis.com/images/animations/121.gif @ Life Orb
• Title: Special Sweeper
• Natural Cure
• Timid
• 252 Speed, 252 SPAtk, 4 HP.

- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Recover

http://www.serebii.net/blackwhite/pokemon/232.png @ Nevermelt Ice
• Title: Physical/Support
• Sturdy
• Adamant
• 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Spd.

- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock

http://www.arkeis.com/images/animations/359.gif @ Scope Lens
• Title: Physical Sweeper
• Super Luck
• Jolly
• 252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP.

- Sucker Punch
- Psycho Cut
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance

http://www.serebii.net/blackwhite/pokemon/468.png @ King's Rock
• Title: Para-Flinch
• Serene Grace
• Calm
• 252 HP, 252 SPDef, 4 SPAtk.

- Air Slash
- Aura Sphere
- Roost
- Thunder Wave

http://www.arkeis.com/images/animations/620.gif @ Life Orb
• Title: Physical Sweeper/Scouter
• Regeneration
• Jolly
• 252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP.

- Hi Jump Kick
- Stone Edge
- U-Turn
- Fake Out

Thank you for taking the time to look at my team, and/or offer advice, and enjoy your day. :)

Kerech
28th October 2010, 9:02 PM
It's a lot easier to read if you explain everything at the end of each Pokemon's set, not after every move. But anyway: first, you mean Guard Share, not Guard Swap. Secondly, Guard Share and Spikes are illegal together. Third, any Scarved maxSpe Poke above base 80 Spe will outspeed you lol; therefore, use either 136 Spe EVs or 216 Spe EVs to outspeed the base 130s or Electrode, respectively. Personally, I'd use the 136:

Agirudaa @ Focus Sash
Nature: Timid
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 252 HP/ 120 SpA/ 136 Spe
-Spikes
-Bug Buzz
-Recover/Quick Attack
-Life Gamble

or

Agirudaa @ Focus Sash
Nature: Timid
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 16 HP/ 24 Def/ 252 SpA/ 216 Spe
-Spikes
-Bug Buzz
-Giga Drain
-Focus Blast

Something like that.

Starmie could use Hydro Pump > Surf; iirc, I was told that it nets important kills Surf can't (like on certain Hippowdon).

Donphan wants 252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4 Spe; you'll trade a small amount of physical bulk for much greater overall bulk in general (which is important if you actually want to hit things). NevermeltIce is not a good item; use Leftovers. Also: you don't have a spinner here, yet you have 2 Pokemon with access to the move. And if you plan on using this team in some future OU tier, you'll need it. Just sayin'.

Absol wants to be Jolly. Adamant's extra power won't matter more than Jolly's extra Spe will.

Metronome is another poor item. I'd go with Leftovers or King's Rock here. Also, that's not an ideal spread, but idr the best one, so my apologies there. Aura Sphere covers Steel and Ice Pokemon, so you don't really need Flamethrower here (though you're more than welcome to use it). I'd say Roost is better, but I've no idea if that's useful, competitively speaking.

Kojondo @ Life Orb/Choice Scarf
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Regeneration
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
-U-Turn
-Fake Out
-Hi Jump Kick
-Stone Edge

LO + Regeneration + U-Turn = win. The Scarf makes it a revenge killer though, so pick your poison. HJK and Stone Edge are self-explanatory.

Lol I got lazy near the end. Hope this helped.

TimmahX
28th October 2010, 10:52 PM
It's a lot easier to read if you explain everything at the end of each Pokemon's set, not after every move. But anyway: first, you mean Guard Share, not Guard Swap. Secondly, Guard Share and Spikes are illegal together. Third, any Scarved maxSpe Poke above base 80 Spe will outspeed you lol; therefore, use either 136 Spe EVs or 216 Spe EVs to outspeed the base 130s or Electrode, respectively. Personally, I'd use the 136:

Agirudaa @ Focus Sash
Nature: Timid
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 252 HP/ 120 SpA/ 136 Spe
-Spikes
-Bug Buzz
-Recover/Quick Attack
-Life Gamble

or

Agirudaa @ Focus Sash
Nature: Timid
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 16 HP/ 24 Def/ 252 SpA/ 216 Spe
-Spikes
-Bug Buzz
-Giga Drain
-Focus Blast

Something like that.

Starmie could use Hydro Pump > Surf; iirc, I was told that it nets important kills Surf can't (like on certain Hippowdon).

Donphan wants 252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4 Spe; you'll trade a small amount of physical bulk for much greater overall bulk in general (which is important if you actually want to hit things). NevermeltIce is not a good item; use Leftovers. Also: you don't have a spinner here, yet you have 2 Pokemon with access to the move. And if you plan on using this team in some future OU tier, you'll need it. Just sayin'.

Absol wants to be Jolly. Adamant's extra power won't matter more than Jolly's extra Spe will.

Metronome is another poor item. I'd go with Leftovers or King's Rock here. Also, that's not an ideal spread, but idr the best one, so my apologies there. Aura Sphere covers Steel and Ice Pokemon, so you don't really need Flamethrower here (though you're more than welcome to use it). I'd say Roost is better, but I've no idea if that's useful, competitively speaking.

Kojondo @ Life Orb/Choice Scarf
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Regeneration
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
-U-Turn
-Fake Out
-Hi Jump Kick
-Stone Edge

LO + Regeneration + U-Turn = win. The Scarf makes it a revenge killer though, so pick your poison. HJK and Stone Edge are self-explanatory.

Lol I got lazy near the end. Hope this helped.

-I actually do mean Guard Swap, Arigudaa learns it in it's pre evolved form at Lv.52. But yes, I'll go for the first option you listed. Though one quick question... what are the exact details on life gamble, in terms of how much damage it can inflict?

-I think I may go for Hydro Pump them, since Hippowdon is such a common threat. Thanks for the pointer.

-Donphan, I'll probably sub out Stone Edge for Rapid Spin, but I was actually debating Knock Off as well. Rapid Spin will probably be the one I side with though.

-I was thinking Adamant because of Sucker Punch, more than anything else. The speed is for when I'm using the other moves, and Sucker Punch is a priority STAB move, so that will be used more than the rest. When I can predict a turn where someone won't attack though, I can just Swords Dance or try to time a Psycho Cut/Stone Edge depending on what I can foresee.

-Most of the games make duplicate items illegal in teams, but I never tried Wi-Fi competitive battles, just locally organized ones. So I wouldn't really know if that holds true, which is why I avoided leftovers. I was thinking King's Rock for a while, for the critical boost on Air Slash, so I may do that. I think the ideal spread might be 252 SPAtk, 252 HP (95 Def, 115 SPDef, 85 HP for bases), 4 Speed.

-I like Fake Out as an interception move, and I almost put in Ambipomb with Fake Out, Pursuit, U-Turn and Thunderwave, but it seemed like a pile of gimmicks. I'll probably take the Life Orb path, I detest using choice items personally, and it would kill the point of Fake Out.

Thanks for all of the pointers, I will be using a lot of them most likely. Enjoy your day. :)

Kerech
28th October 2010, 11:18 PM
Guard Swap only switches Def and SpD boosts, not the actual stats themselves. Life Gamble inflicts an amount of damage equal to the amount of HP you have when using the move, but kills you. For example, if you were at max health (at lvl 100) and used Life Gamble, you would die (hence, suicide) and inflict 364 points of damage to your enemy. And if you were hit with an attack to bring you down to your Focus Sash, and then used Life Gamble, you'd die and inflict 1 point of damage lol.

I'm not too familiar with a support Donphan, but I suppose Knock Off could work somewhere in there...

After a SD, you won't need an Adamant nature. Plus, you can't solely depend upon Sucker Punch, or you'll end up as setup fodder.

King's Rock adds/increases flinch rate, not crit-hits. You might as well use it if you're going to rely on hax here.

Keep in mind that 2 of your Pokemon hold a LO though.

TimmahX
29th October 2010, 1:19 AM
Guard Swap only switches Def and SpD boosts, not the actual stats themselves. Life Gamble inflicts an amount of damage equal to the amount of HP you have when using the move, but kills you. For example, if you were at max health (at lvl 100) and used Life Gamble, you would die (hence, suicide) and inflict 364 points of damage to your enemy. And if you were hit with an attack to bring you down to your Focus Sash, and then used Life Gamble, you'd die and inflict 1 point of damage lol.

I'm not too familiar with a support Donphan, but I suppose Knock Off could work somewhere in there...

After a SD, you won't need an Adamant nature. Plus, you can't solely depend upon Sucker Punch, or you'll end up as setup fodder.

King's Rock adds/increases flinch rate, not crit-hits. You might as well use it if you're going to rely on hax here.

Keep in mind that 2 of your Pokemon hold a LO though.

-A lot of what I liked about Agirudaa before I figured out how Guard Swap worked and Guard Share being illegal was the wall spiking. Would Guard Share + Toxic be illegal too though, since I think that may be worth ask.

-On the illegal note, is Sub Seed Spiking with Natorrei illegal also? It kinda seems like it should be.

-I know, but if someone is taking the turn to buff, spike, status enduce, haze, or swap for setups, I can change moves because I'm not using a choice item. Most people use choice scarves and I don't, so he's going to eat dust anyway (Absol). But Jolly could be good for slower targets that don't rely on it, so I'll go for it.

-... Yea, typo. Kinda blanked out. I am gonna do King's Rock though.



-I am seriously considering dumping Agirudaa now for Umbreon. The challenge was 1 pokemon from each generation, plus your favorite in general as the lead. Agirudaa looks cool and had a lot going for it in theory, but until 5th gen, Umbreon was my favorite. The one thing stopping me is that I detest using two pokemon of the same type in one team, but I also disliked most of 3rd gen (Except Absol, Cradily and Ninjask). I'd have 3 pokemon weak to bug type if I went with Umbreon... which brings me to my potential replacement candidate.

Ninjask @ Focus Sash
-Baton Passer
-Adamant
-Speed Boost
-252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Spd

-X-Scissors (STAB attack)
-Swords Dance (Can fire one off with Focus Sash protection)
-Protect (Stalls 1 extra speed boost)
-Baton Pass (Mhmm)

I think this might be a better option actually because passing a pile of boosts to Absol, Donphan or Kojondo can be a huge help. Plus later in the match, I can pop him in if there's no hazards left and fire a +1 Stage speed with each clear opportunity, unless I want a revenge kill (Which he could do too).

-Also, I asked the Sub-Seed-Spike thing because half my brain is considering swapping Kojondo for Nattorei. I'm planning to make an all 5th gen team as well, so I'll have both in and interchangeable regardless. It's just whether or not it's fair/ethical to opponents.

Thanks once again for all of your help. :)

Kerech
29th October 2010, 2:37 AM
No, that's not illegal. Nor are Leech Seed and Spikes with Nattorei; illegal refers to being impossible to get on the same set.

That's my point exactly; you want to be fast enough to hit them prior to their boost(s), or at least have the chance to. A single boost can ruin you, so you want to be able to hit them hard, and quickly.

Well, Agirudaa assures you get down at least one layer of Spikes, unless you encounter a Mischievous Heart Taunter/Magic Coater or Mirrorer. I wouldn't recommend Ninjask, simply because Baton Passing is an easily thwarted strategy unless you have more than one Passer/can start a chain.

Oh, and you should update the OP with your changes, so that other raters know what you're currently doing.