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Grei
26th December 2010, 7:09 AM
... Well, yeah. I happen to like a lot of White-exclusive Pokemon and yet, dislike the White-exclusive areas. Since the Pokemon are changeable but the areas themselves are not, I'm choosing Black, but will be somehow getting Churine and Washibon onto Black.

But this is unimportant. Here is my planned team and its movesets and abilities.

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Shoalgun Daikenki ("Blue")
Torrent
-Shell Blade
-Megahorn/Air Slash/Night Slash
-Swords Dance
-Surf


This'll be my Starter, but if I really wanted to I could get a Daikenki with the Air Slash or Night Slash egg moves instead of Megahorn. Considering Daikenki's biggest threats will be Grass and Electric types, Night Slash is a little less likely than Air Slash or Megahorn (to deal with Grass-types, at least). Plus, some Special Flying power is welcome with Wargle around. Ice Beam would be good to put in somewhere, but I'm not entirely sure where... Perhaps I'll use that in the second slot. Shell Blade isn't as strong as Aqua Tail but the 50% chance of Defense drop is too good to pass up. Swords Dance is there for a boost, and Surf is practically a given with a Water-type with a good Special stat.

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Doreida ("Green")
Own Tempo
-Petal Dance
-Butterfly Dance
-Energy Ball/Grass Knot
-Synthesis/Giga Drain


I love Doreida. But, since I apparently cannot get a Churine with Own Tempo as her ability through the in-game trade in Pokemon Black (asdfjkl), I'll just have to get it some other way (I can already think of an alternative). Since it will have Own Tempo, I'll take advantage of Petal Dance's confusion-less power and will give it Butterfly Dance for a stat boost. Giga Drain may be used over Synthesis, but that depends on what level Churine is at when I get the Sun Stone. Energy Ball or Grass Knot, either works (although I personally like Grass Knot more).

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Darmanitan ("Red")
Encourage
-Fire Punch
-Rock Slide
-Flare Blitz
-Superpower/Bulk Up/???


I'm not too sure what to put on Darmanitan for the last slot. Anything is lethal with that Attack stat (so long as it's Physical), so if possible I'd like to take advantage of the three moves boosted by Encourage that Darmanitan gets. I'll keep Fire Punch and Flare Blitz around at the same time, so that I'm not killing myself every time I use a Fire-type attack. Rock Slide can work because I don't have a Rock-type, and it's boosted by Encourage. For the last slot, I'm not sure. I like Superpower more than Hammer Arm, but Hammer Arm may be better since a loss in Speed may not be as bad as a loss in Attack and, worse, Defense. Heck, maybe I'll just use Bulk Up or some other non-damaging move on Darmanitan. Not sure. Regardless, though--if I can somehow get ahold of a Life Orb or two, I would definitely give it to Darmanitan to boost all of its moves.

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Wargle ("White")
Keen Eye/Encourage/Competitiveness
-Fly/Brave Bird
-Crush Claw
-Hone Claws/Bulk Up
-Shadow Claw/Rock Slide


I will likely have Wargle as my Fly-er, so I will probably have Fly instead of Brave Bird. Although, Wargle's HP allows for Brave Bird to be used well as opposed to previous birds, so maybe, just maybe, I'll use Brave Bird over Fly, or both. Crush Claw is a cool move and Hone Claws will boost its and Wargle's other attacks' strength. Shadow Claw is a personal favorite of mine, but if I get a Wargle with Encourage, I may choose Rock Slide instead (or some other move that Wargle can abuse with Encourage (I don't know what those moves are... I didn't think there were many). I don't care much about Wargle's ability. If Encourage can be used well on it, then sure. If not, Keen Eye or even Competitiveness (if I can somehow get one from the Dream World) work just fine. Of course, if I get Keen Eye for an ability, Hone Claws will become Bulk Up (since boosting Accuracy would be fairly pointless, I think). If I end up using Encourage, though, I can give it Life Orb to boost up all of its attacks, as with Darmanitan.

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Zuruzukin ("Yellow")
Overconfidence
-Brick Break/Hi Jump Kick/Low Kick
-Payback/Crunch
-Rock Climb/Dragon Claw/Stone Edge
-Bulk Up/Dragon Dance


I love Overconfidence, and there's a lot I can do with this guy. Since he's Fighting/Dark, both of those types are mandatory. I could go with Brick Break, which is solid and less dangerous than the more-powerful Hi Jump Kick. But me, being a lover of Grass Knot, may instead go for Low Kick. Payback is likely since his speed is so low, but I may use Crunch just for something a bit more solid. Rock Climb is a cool move, but Dragon Claw is also cool since I will likely not have much Dragon-type support. Stone Edge, however, is amazing and could be used instead. Bulk Up would be there because I have a need for Support moves on most of my Pokemon, and if possible, I may try to breed for Dragon Dance (in which case, Payback would more likely be Crunch), or could go for Amnesia (making Payback all the more viable).
EDIT: Wait, I confused Amnesia with Curse, my bad. Amnesia isn't too helpful on Zuruzukin, so probably Bulk Up.

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Doryuuzu ("Scarlet")
Sand Paddle/Sand Power
-Earthquake
-Metal Claw
-Hone Claws/Swords Dance/Sandstorm/Metal Sound
-Shadow Claw/Poison Jab


Why this thing doesn't learn more Rock-type moves (like Stone Edge) is beyond me. But anyway, I've heard a lot of great things about Doryuuzu. I always have a Ground-type (it's probably my favorite type after Grass) on my team, and after early disputes I decided on Doryuuzu over Waruvial simply because... well, Doryuuzu's better. But anyway, I'll give him Earthquake and Metal Claw for STAB. Depending on his ability, I'll give him Sandstorm. Well, I may give him Sandstorm no matter what, but if he gets Sand Paddle for an ability, I'm less likely to give him Sandstorm straight away and more likely to give him Hone Claws or Swords Dance for a boosting move. Metal Sound would be a nice addition as well. For the last slot, I don't know what to put for sure. Shadow Claw again is a favorite of mine, but I could do Poison Jab since my Poison support will be lacking. Maybe I'll go for Drill Liner or Dig for the last slot simply for aesthetics.



So, yeah. Thoughts? Also, possible natures for each, maybe?

Noctourniquet
26th December 2010, 7:56 PM
Yo.

The first thing I notice is that Daikenki is running two Water type moves. You really don't need that, it offers no real coverage and when you have Swords Dance to work with, there's no reason not to go totally physical. Shell Blade is an alright move, but imo it becomes outclassed by Waterfall due to the fact that its effect is not certain to activate, it has imperfect accuracy, lower power, and no field use. I'd suggest running

• Daikenki @ Leftovers
• Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Swords Dance
- Megahorn
- Return

I just explained Waterfall, and you know why to use Megahorn already. Night Slash does nothing for Daikenki in terms of useful coverage, so don't use it, and I don't see what Air Slash can do which Megahorn (which also handles the number of Dark and Psychic types introduced in this generation) can't. Return often seems an odd choice at firs,t but when you consider it, you have some good neutral coverage when you run a Normal move alongside Water. Iirc, only Empoleon resists this duo.

The item and nature are there to use if you please, as with all of my rates.


You really have no need for a second Grass attack on Doredia when you have something as powerfula nd long-lasting as Petal Dance at your disposal. You will find that running Sleep Powder > Energy Ball / Grass Knot will help you out in your setup given that Doredia isn't amazing at taking hits. Synthesis is a viable option in the last slot, as is Leech Seed or Hidden Power [Rock] if you're up for breeding for it.


Stick the Life Orb on Hihidaruma and run Flare Blitz > Fire Punch. There is an odd mechanic in B/W which causes the recoil from LO to be removed, as well as the recoil from FB. The result is an incredibly powerful move with no recoil whatsoever. I'm not confident on what happens if you remove the Life Orb, though.

This considered, you need not worry about recoil and so you can run Earthquake > Fire Punch. U-Turn is a pretty good choice in the last slot for making an escape, and once again, Bug is a helpful type in this generation given how much Dark and Psychic has been introduced.


I'll come back and do the other three at a later point. Hope this is helpful.

Grei
26th December 2010, 8:55 PM
Yo.

The first thing I notice is that Daikenki is running two Water type moves. You really don't need that, it offers no real coverage and when you have Swords Dance to work with, there's no reason not to go totally physical. Shell Blade is an alright move, but imo it becomes outclassed by Waterfall due to the fact that its effect is not certain to activate, it has imperfect accuracy, lower power, and no field use. I'd suggest running

• Daikenki @ Leftovers
• Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Swords Dance
- Megahorn
- Return

I just explained Waterfall, and you know why to use Megahorn already. Night Slash does nothing for Daikenki in terms of useful coverage, so don't use it, and I don't see what Air Slash can do which Megahorn (which also handles the number of Dark and Psychic types introduced in this generation) can't. Return often seems an odd choice at firs,t but when you consider it, you have some good neutral coverage when you run a Normal move alongside Water. Iirc, only Empoleon resists this duo.

The item and nature are there to use if you please, as with all of my rates.

Thank you. I wouldn't have really thought of Return, actually.



You really have no need for a second Grass attack on Doredia when you have something as powerfula nd long-lasting as Petal Dance at your disposal. You will find that running Sleep Powder > Energy Ball / Grass Knot will help you out in your setup given that Doredia isn't amazing at taking hits. Synthesis is a viable option in the last slot, as is Leech Seed or Hidden Power [Rock] if you're up for breeding for it.

Sleep Powder does sound good. Would Synthesis > Giga Drain be true, since Synthesis is more reliable whereas Giga Drain depends on the opponent?


Stick the Life Orb on Hihidaruma and run Flare Blitz > Fire Punch. There is an odd mechanic in B/W which causes the recoil from LO to be removed, as well as the recoil from FB. The result is an incredibly powerful move with no recoil whatsoever. I'm not confident on what happens if you remove the Life Orb, though.

This considered, you need not worry about recoil and so you can run Earthquake > Fire Punch. U-Turn is a pretty good choice in the last slot for making an escape, and once again, Bug is a helpful type in this generation given how much Dark and Psychic has been introduced.

:0 Really? I didn't know Hihidaruma didn't get recoil from Flare Blitz with Encourage + Life Orb! That's awesome. You're right, screw Fire Punch. U-Turn I hadn't considered, thank you.

EDIT: Wait, if Flare Blitz's recoil isn't negated (I'm reading around and am getting mixed answers)... Maybe I'll go with

-Fire Punch
-Rock Slide
-Earthquake
-Flare Blitz

For good coverage, while keeping a Fire-type attack open that may not potentially kill me, and keeping the other around in case I need blast anything to smithereens.

Noctourniquet
26th December 2010, 9:20 PM
^ Yeah if I was wrong then that set will be fine.


Sleep Powder does sound good. Would Synthesis > Giga Drain be true, since Synthesis is more reliable whereas Giga Drain depends on the opponent?


Yes, I'd say so. Consider it this way; Synthesis will, under normal weather conditions, restore 50% of your health. To achieve this with Giga Drain, you must do damage to the opponent equal to 100% of your maximum health. That, to me, sounds unreliable. Additionally, the damage dealt by Giga Drain is irrelevant when you have a move like Petal Dance at your disposal.



:0 Really? I didn't know Hihidaruma didn't get recoil from Flare Blitz with Encourage + Life Orb! That's awesome. You're right, screw Fire Punch. U-Turn I hadn't considered, thank you.

Apparently so. I would test this first, but I've asked a few people and it seems that this loophole does indeed exist. I was planning on testing it myself soon.


I'll take a closer look at Wargle and Zuruzukin later on, to find good movesets, but for now I'll just help you out with Doryuuzu.

I suggest you run a Swords Dance Doryuuzu.

• Doryuuzu @ Leftovers
• Jolly nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance
- Return / X-Scissor

This set is lovely. Earthquake gives you a massively powerful STAB attack, as you know. Really, I don't see why people are bothered about the lack of Stone Edge when imo Rock Slide is far superior in-game due to the higher accuracy and PP. The lesser power doesn't matter anyway since you have Swords Dance to remedy this issue. Hone Claws is a nice move when used appropriately, but really, when Rock Slide is your only move with imperfect accuracy under normal conditions, you don't need the accuracy boost and are far better off going with the much more efficient Swords Dance. You can run Return for nice neutral coverage (although given the great coverage behind Ground + Rock, you may not need it at all) or X-Scissor to make up for where QuakeEdge falls short, on those tricky types like Dark and Psychic.

Aurath8
26th December 2010, 9:36 PM
Doryuuzu@Leftovers/Muscle Band
Jolly/Sand Power
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Swords Dance
-Brick Break/\X-scissor

After a Swords Dance if you touch anything with EQ or Rock Slide that doesn't resist it, they DIE. Sand Power basically gives you a free extra 33% of power for your Rock, ground and Steel moves. That means you get a 400 power Earthquake with STAB at +2 and a 200 power Rock Slide at +2.
This set doesn't know the meaning of the phrase 'too much power', and no, it will not borrow your dictionary.

EDIT: Damn you ninjas!

Grei
28th December 2010, 12:27 AM
Thanks you two, for your suggestions. They've been noted.

For those who haven't been evaluated or who are still in question, I've made a few changes.

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Darmanitan ("Red")
Sheer Force
-Fire Punch
-Rock Slide
-Flare Blitz/U-Turn
-Earthquake


I've changed the last slot to Earthquake since it allows for nice coverage, and since Bulk Up on a Pokemon so physically powerful as Darmanitan is sort of... unnecessary. I understand not wanting two of the same type in a moveset, but... if Flare Blitz can destroy most anything with Sheer Force and LO support, I say it should stay with Fire Punch, which would be there fore Fire coverage that isn't self-harming. But, if I decide to only have one Fire-type attack, I'll stick with Fire Punch and switch Flare Blitz to U-Turn.

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Wargle ("White")
Sheer Force
-Fly/Brave Bird
-Return/Crush Claw
-Hone Claws
-Rock Slide


This would be my set with Sheer Force. With Keen Eye, it would probably be:

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Wargle ("White")
Keen Eye
-Fly/Brave Bird
-Return/Crush Claw
-Bulk Up
-Shadow Claw


But I feel as though these two sets suck, so I'll just leave them alone and wait for someone to give better options.

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Zuruzukin ("Yellow")
Moxie
-Brick Break
-Payback/Crunch
-Dragon Claw
-Bulk Up


I think Dragon Dance would be a hindrance as far as Payback goes, so my support move will be Bulk Up. Since Wargle and Darmanitan may already give Rock-type power and I have no Dragon-type power otherwise, I think I'll go with Dragon Claw on Zuruzukin. Brick Break is consistent and is powerful enough, so I'll probably have that for my Fighting-type move, and then either Payback or Crunch for my Dark-type move. Payback is good on a slow Pokemon like Zuruzukin, so it's more likely that Payback will be stronger than Crunch. However, Crunch is, like Brick Break, more consistent and so it may be more favorable. On any other Dark-type, Crunch would probably be preferable, but I think Payback is good considering Zuruzukin's statistics.

Further thoughts?

gyaradosuseddragonrage!
1st January 2011, 12:22 AM
Sand Power only works if there is a sandstorm running, and setting it up wastes a move imo. Sheer Force doesn't negate Brave Bird recoil (effect is on yourself), so you might reconsider that on your Sheer Force Wargle set. Other than that, it seems all right, just maybe drop Payback on ZZ and give it Dragon Dance.