PDA

View Full Version : Black Version Team- Help me round this out?



KnucklesZero
10th March 2011, 9:43 AM
Working on a team... Just for the story, not for a cohesive PVP team. But I want them to have good move sets for PVP down the road. I'm avoiding putting Pokemon with DW abilities I may want on it, so I'm feeling a bit limited. Thoughts? Care to help me finish/edit some move sets?

Samurott- Going for an Attack and Special Defense build.

Move Set
Razor Shell
Megahorn
Dig
Revenge (Was also considering Copycat, but I think you need post game to breed that in.)

Victini- Speed and Special Attack build.

Move Set
Searing Shot
Psychic
Focus Blast

And either Thunder or Energy Ball.

Galvantula- Speed and Special Attack build. Unnerve ability (or go DW swarm?)

Move Set
Thunder Wave
Electro Ball
Energy Ball

And either Signal Beam or Bug Buzz.

Ferrothorn- Defense and Special Defense build.

Move Set
Curse
Rollout
Gyroball
Power Whip

Cofagrigus- Defense and Special Defense build.

Move Set
Disable
Destiny Bond
Hex, Ominous Wind OR Shadow Ball

And either Will-o-Wisp, Toxic, Flash, Swagger, Grass Knot, Energy Ball, Psychic, Hidden Power, Rest, Safeguard, Power Split, or Guard Split.

Zoroark- Speed and either Special attack or Attack build.

Move Set SA
Night Daze
Extrasensory
Flamethrower

And either Calm Mind, Scary Face, Snarl, Protect, Torment, or Substitute.

Move Set A
U-Turn
Foul Play
Aerial Ace

And either Scary Face, Protect, Dig, Torment, or Retaliate.

Shine
10th March 2011, 11:35 AM
try using the correct team post format (http://www.serebiiforums.com/showpost.php?p=11686953&postcount=2), it's more readable that way.

Samurott
Adamant Nature
~Waterfall
~Return
~Night Slash
~Revenge


Victini
Modest/Timid Nature
~Searing Shot/Fire Blast
~Psyshock
~Thunderbolt
~Focus Blast



Galvantula
Modest/Timid Nature, Compoundeyes ability (Unnerve is almost useless)
~Thunder
~Bug Buzz
~Energy Ball
~Thunder Wave/Toxic/Spider Web/Hidden Power [anything not Electric/Bug/Grass/Steel/Poison].



Cofagrigus
Modest Nature
~Hex
~Calm Mind
~Energy Ball
~Will-o-Wisp

or Shadow Ball instead of Hex. If you're using Shadow Ball, you can also try Hidden Power [Fighting] instead of Will-o-Wisp.



Zoroark
Timid/Modest Nature
~Focus Blast
~Night Daze
~Flamethrower
~Nasty Plot/Grass Knot

Nasty Plot if Timid, Grass Knot if Modest.

KnucklesZero
10th March 2011, 12:38 PM
Okay, 1) I followed the format fairly closely actually. I just took some time to list things I was considering for a few move slots (Probably could have done that a bit more eloquently though.) and rather than natures I listed builds- as in where I would put EVs- obviously I'd want natures that suit those builds. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

2) You really didn't provide any reasoning for why the choices you list are better than what I had. For example, why would Waterfall be better than Razor shell?

Tsumiki
10th March 2011, 1:00 PM
Lesse, then.

Samurott@Leftovers
Jolly/Torrent
~Swords Dance
~Aqua Jet/Waterfall
~X-Scissor
~Return

Pretty standard work here. Swords Dance is to boost it's Atk to ridiculous levels. Aqua Jet is prefered, becuase a STABed priority at +2 is just unfair, however Waterfall also works if you want a more powerful STAB move. X-Scissor is to counter Grss types, while Return gives overall great neutral coverage alongside your STAB move.

I'd personally go Psyshock>Psychic. While the latter has higher BP, the former allows you to hit Specially bulky Pokemon, who may trouble the rest of the set. TBolt>Energy Ball for that last slot, to hit Waters harder.

Galvantula wants Bug Buzz as it's second STAB move. I'd go for Volt Change to escape from it's predators.

Level Ground>Rollout to hit Fire types more reliably. Said move probably has an English name, but meh.

Coffin should run Shadow Ball|Calm Mind|Energy Ball|HP[Fighting]. Hex is basically a two-turn move, which isn't fun. Calm Mind to boost it's Special Stats. Shadow Ball is it's main STAB move, while Energy Ball is it's only other decent Special Move. Hidden Power [Figthing] is prefered if you can get it, but WoW/Toxic also work here.

Nasty Plot>Whatever for Slot 4, it's to good a move to pass up. I'd say Focus Blast>Extrasensory for the superior coverage.

Shine
10th March 2011, 2:11 PM
2) You really didn't provide any reasoning for why the choices you list are better than what I had. For example, why would Waterfall be better than Razor shell?

that was so obvious I thought you don't need any explanation.....Waterfall has more power and accuracy (and PP too) than Razor Shell :)

KnucklesZero
10th March 2011, 3:34 PM
Hmm! It didn't occur to me to pump up Aquajet with Swords Dance. That would most likely outpace Waterfall or Razor Shell. Do you promote X-Scissor over Megahorn for the accuracy? Giving up 40 power for 15 accuracy... I could see that, and with Swords Dance in the mix the power can jump up anyway. I'm not clear on why you'd include Return. I mean, it's powerful, but dig could help it handle electric and steel types (Poison as well for a bonus).

The only thing that worries me is getting the chance to really make use of Swords Dance, if you won't last long it seems like hitting hard with bigger moves would be best, and Samurott isn't exactly speedy- which is why I figured pump up the special defense. Maybe Defense too instead of Attack, with Swords Dance around.

--

Ah yeah, Psyshock makes sense. I actually had been wondering if that was how that move worked. As for T-Bolt VS E-Ball, E-Ball also helps deal with ground types. I was weighing Thunder over T-Bolt because of Victini's accuracy boost and the higher power. In the end I think the boosted ground coverage might win out in my mind with E-Ball.

--

The main thing I was considering were the secondary effects for the Bug moves. I know Signal Beam is weaker, but possibly adding Confusion to Paralasis seems pretty solid. So I'm still sorta tossed up there honestly. As for Volt Switch, it's definately something to consider, but the speed cut Paralasis inflicts seems like it'd be quite the boon to Electro Ball's damage. On the OTHER hand I just realized Compound eyes would make Thunder 100% accurate and I don't know Electro Ball's ceiling. Ability wise what would you say is best? I see advantages to all three of them- less in Compound eyes without Thunder involved.

--

Level Ground = Bulldoze. And it does make sense in place of Rollout. I just thought Rollout would be able to really get to work and build up on something with strong defenses like Ferrothorn. I definately see advantages to both, but I'm leaning to Bulldoze now.

--

I think with Coffin it really depends on where/how you're using it. In a double battle (I haven't tripple battled so I can't speculate too much there.) the set up of stonewalling and ruining abilities (Mummy) + Disable seems like it could really mess your foe up.

If I'm using Toxic or WoW anyway Hex seems like it'd beat Shadow Ball. If I went with Shadow Ball (or Ominous Wind for the possible stat ups) and freed up the status move slot I think filling it with Power Split or Trick Room could work out well. I mean, as a defensive build I'd think Coffin would have below average S.Attack and bad speed. So Power Split in the right situation could add a lot more power than Calm Mind while also weakening the foe, and of course Trick Room makes it great to pair with other slow Pokemon.

I could definately see adding Fighting type H.P. in there... but Destiny Bond is pretty much a definate kill. Really, I'm still very torn on how to set Coffin up.

--

But Zoroark seems weak defensively, which makes me think boosting power might be futile, as you could boost it and die very soon after. At least if you stick them with a stat down it can still cause trouble if Zoroark is knocked out.

Focus Blast lacks the accuracy of Extrasensory though, and Extrasensory can handle the fighting types quickly.

The main reason I considered a physical build alongside the special build is Illusion. Because of how Illusion works I could see sending Zoroark in and out often with U-Turn, throwing off your opponent pretty well. Also, with the aid of the disguise you could really sneak up on a high attack Pokemon with Foul Play (or Punishment I suppose). Another nice thing would be Aerial Ace covering both of it's weaknesses. Also, Protect/Detect on both it and what it pretends to be could prolong the enemy having the wrong impression of what they're fighting.

Might raise one of each...
---

So at the moment I'm thinking...

Samurott
~Careful w/ S.Def and Def EV
-Aquajet
-X-Scissor
-Dig
-Swords Dance

Victini
~Timid w/ Speed and S.Attack EV
-Psyshock
-Energy Ball
-Focus Blast
-Searing Shot

Galvantula
~Timid w/ Speed and S.Attack EV
-Energy Ball
-Electro Ball
-Thunderwave
-Bug Buzz

Ferrothorn
~Careful w/ Def and S.Def EV
-Power Whip
-Gyroball
-Bulldoze
-Curse

Cofagrigus
(Totally up in the air)

Zoroark
~Timid w/ Speed and S. Attack EV
-Night Daze
- Flamethrower
- Extrasensory
- Nasty Plot?


that was so obvious I thought you don't need any explanation.....Waterfall has more power and accuracy (and PP too) than Razor Shell :)

Both the power and the accuracy are only 5 more. Not impressive, and Razor Shell can lower defense. Unless using a particularly speedy Samurott the added flinch chance of Waterfall is useless by comparison. :3 but anyway, that was just an example.

Tsumiki
10th March 2011, 4:21 PM
Hmm! It didn't occur to me to pump up Aquajet with Swords Dance. That would most likely outpace Waterfall or Razor Shell. Do you promote X-Scissor over Megahorn for the accuracy? Giving up 40 power for 15 accuracy... I could see that, and with Swords Dance in the mix the power can jump up anyway. I'm not clear on why you'd include Return. I mean, it's powerful, but dig could help it handle electric and steel types (Poison as well for a bonus).

The only thing that worries me is getting the chance to really make use of Swords Dance, if you won't last long it seems like hitting hard with bigger moves would be best, and Samurott isn't exactly speedy- which is why I figured pump up the special defense. Maybe Defense too instead of Attack, with Swords Dance around.

Megahorn would make more sense if Samurott wasn't boosting, which isn't true in this case. X-Scissor with SD's 100% boost will be doing enough. As for Return>Dig, Dig is a two-turn move. And if you do the calcs,

X-Scissor*2=160Bp|Super-Effective Dig=160BP. This shows that over a period of two turns, X-Scissor does equal damage to a Super-Effective Dig. Consider the fact the target could get KOed after an X-Scissor, or weakened to the point that Aqua Jet can finish it. This would mean that Dig would in inferior over a period of two turns. As for Return, the Normal+Water combination grants you terrific neutral coverage.

In all honesty, you don't need to be bothered about it's Defensive stats, given the AI's lack of EVs or Natures.


Ah yeah, Psyshock makes sense. I actually had been wondering if that was how that move worked. As for T-Bolt VS E-Ball, E-Ball also helps deal with ground types. I was weighing Thunder over T-Bolt because of Victini's accuracy boost and the higher power. In the end I think the boosted ground coverage might win out in my mind with E-Ball.

Fire Blast*1.5=180BP|EB*2=160BP. A STABed Fire Blast will do more than a Super Effective Energy Ball. I suppose Thunder>Thunderbolt could work.


The main thing I was considering were the secondary effects for the Bug moves. I know Signal Beam is weaker, but possibly adding Confusion to Paralasis seems pretty solid. So I'm still sorta tossed up there honestly. As for Volt Switch, it's definately something to consider, but the speed cut Paralasis inflicts seems like it'd be quite the boon to Electro Ball's damage. On the OTHER hand I just realized Compound eyes would make Thunder 100% accurate and I don't know Electro Ball's ceiling. Ability wise what would you say is best? I see advantages to all three of them- less in Compound eyes without Thunder involved.


Thunder actually has 91% Acc, imo. Keep in mind that both side effects have a 10% chance of working, and two or three Bug Buzz's will KO the target regardless, making the side-effects pointless. As for the last slot, it's mostly a matter of opinion. Volt Change|Thunder Wave|Sucker Punch all work there, depending on what you like.


If I'm using Toxic or WoW anyway Hex seems like it'd beat Shadow Ball. If I went with Shadow Ball (or Ominous Wind for the possible stat ups) and freed up the status move slot I think filling it with Power Split or Trick Room could work out well. I mean, as a defensive build I'd think Coffin would have below average S.Attack and bad speed. So Power Split in the right situation could add a lot more power than Calm Mind while also weakening the foe, and of course Trick Room makes it great to pair with other slow Pokemon.

Status+Hex=150BP|Shadow Ball*2=240BP. Calcs speak for themselves. II'd honestly just stick HP Fight on it. Power Split is too gimmick to be of any real value and Trick Room would slow down your faster Pokemon.


But Zoroark seems weak defensively, which makes me think boosting power might be futile, as you could boost it and die very soon after. At least if you stick them with a stat down it can still cause trouble if Zoroark is knocked out.

Focus Blast lacks the accuracy of Extrasensory though, and Extrasensory can handle the fighting types quickly.
Lowering Status means that the effort is wasted if the target goes down. However, if you manage to get a Nasty Plot up, then Zoroak can pretty much destroy teams with the right tools. I suppose Extra could work.

LinkToTheFuture
10th March 2011, 8:11 PM
I would go for the following on Galvantula, with Compoundeyes. If you prefer Unnerve, go nuts and use Electro Ball, but don't bother waiting for Swarm. What's the point?
- Thunder
- Energy Ball
- Bug Buzz
- Volt Change/Thunder Wave
If the PP of Thunder bothers you have Volt Change too, which will be useful to get Galvantula the heck out when a fire type comes along. Or use Thunderwave to paralyse them.