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View Full Version : Is "Sturdy" overpowered in B/W?



CAH
4th April 2011, 2:50 PM
As I'm sure most people know sturdy's new effect in B/W is that the pokemon can't be KO'd by a single move, but is this overpowered in your opinion?

Feel free to give a reason for your choice by voting.

I personally think it is, and I can see a lot of Sturdy/Explosion like strategies coming about as a result.

What do you think?

Takeo
4th April 2011, 3:23 PM
I want to say yes just because its just a built in focus sash; and even though i will probably be using my forretress alot more because of it, i plan to combine it with the 'custap' berry for one final blow at my oppents lol

CAH
4th April 2011, 3:25 PM
I want to say yes just because its just a built in focus sash; and even though i will probably be using my forretress alot more because of it, i plan to combine it with the 'custap' berry for one final blow at my oppents lol

Agreed. It's pretty much like having two items on a Pokemon at once.
Focus Sash + Whicever item you give to your Pokemon.

Way overpowered.

Karzon
4th April 2011, 3:28 PM
One word. Stealthrock.

Yes it's one word, because I cheated and did not put a space inbetween Stealth and rock.

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
4th April 2011, 3:33 PM
Another word: Lead.

Stealth Rock is two words, by the way.

MudkipsAreAwesome
4th April 2011, 3:34 PM
With that Sturdy, a lot of pokemon strategies have started forming round that ability.
Donphan lv 1 @ Shell Bell
Sturdy
-Endevour
-Ice Shard

Probopass lv1 @ Some random item.
Sturdy
-Pain Split

Most of them become awesome in sandstorm. But Donphan doesnt need sand storm. Just to name a few. That's why you carry priorities and attacks like bullet seed with you.

So to sum it up, kinda over powered. But not yet considered broken.

supernoob
4th April 2011, 3:38 PM
meh. priority moves break sturdy all day errryday.

Takeo
4th April 2011, 3:49 PM
Agreed. It's pretty much like having two items on a Pokemon at once.
Focus Sash + Whicever item you give to your Pokemon.

Way overpowered.

Its just not that you can use two items at once but also,....if i'm thinking correctly everyone that has 'sturdy' will have no damage from sandstorm because there types allow them to survive, not that they aren't able to be taken down; it'll just require a better strategy. i just said sandstorm because its used more then hail.

Dattebayo
4th April 2011, 3:52 PM
Sturdy isn't that overpowered. If Stealth Rock's in the field or if your Pokemon has a priority move, it won't have a chance to hit back.

RDSchley
4th April 2011, 3:54 PM
No because there are few pokemon that can be 1HKO'd anyway. Besides residual damage ruins it. I'd rather have Solid Rock/Filter as SE moves are the only moves that are going to 1HKO you anyway.

I can't believe people think it is. These people obviously are terrible.

CAH
4th April 2011, 3:54 PM
With that Sturdy, a lot of pokemon strategies have started forming round that ability.
Donphan lv 1 @ Shell Bell
Sturdy
-Endevour
-Ice Shard

Probopass lv1 @ Some random item.
Sturdy
-Pain Split

Most of them become awesome in sandstorm. But Donphan doesnt need sand storm. Just to name a few. That's why you carry priorities and attacks like bullet seed with you.

So to sum it up, kinda over powered. But not yet considered broken.

If combos like this aren't proof that it's overpowered I don't know what is. Using this, a level 1 can beat a level 100 Pokemon. Also this technique would certainly make catching legendaries or anything else extremely easy.

Sure, there are moves that can stop it such as Stealth Rock or priority moves, but that doesn't change that it's overpowered to begin with.


No because there are few pokemon that can be 1HKO'd anyway. Besides residual damage ruins it. I'd rather have Solid Rock/Filter as SE moves are the only moves that are going to 1HKO you anyway.

I can't believe people think it is. These people obviously are terrible.

Most Pokemon in the game (during the storyline) can easily be finished in one move and even in competitive play, if you use the right moves you can 1HKO a Pokemon. Practically any water move on most things that have sturdy will finish it (or really any super effective move in many cases).

ALSO, when you see things in the wild which have sturdy (e.g. when training a Pokemon), it's ridiculous that you must use two moves/take two turns to KO what should be an easy kill and would pretty much get 1HKO'd from any move you use.

JDavidC
4th April 2011, 4:09 PM
No because there are few pokemon that can be 1HKO'd anyway. Besides residual damage ruins it. I'd rather have Solid Rock/Filter as SE moves are the only moves that are going to 1HKO you anyway.There are quite a lot of pokemon that can be OHKO'ed actually (especially if you have a sweeper that has buffs on), plus residual damage only goes off at the end of the turn, allowing the sturdy pokemon to strike back, with, say, Explosion. Some sturdy pokemon will be immune to certain types of weather, so they won't go down to residual damage. At the very least, even with residual damage, it can give them 1 extra turn, and that is often all it takes to turn a battle around. If you can't believe people think Sturdy is overpowered, then I don't think you've experienced how powerful a built in Focus Sash is. I also think you're underestimating people who disagree with you. Don't make such hasty judgments.

Focus Sash itself allowed for strategies like Flailkarp, but imagine what you could pull off with Sturdy. How about this? Sturdy pokemon with a Custap Berry survives the first hit, strikes back, and then gets another turn right off the bat because Custap Berry is guaranteed to go off at 1HP (remember, not all opponents will have priority moves, and the Sturdy pokemon can just use a priority move instead if it will be enough, and it will beat the other pokemon if it is also readying a priority move). Thats not 1 extra turn, but two!

BTW, speaking of just how overpowered it is. I saw a YT vid of two pokemon sweeping an entire team. The 1st is a Tyranitar, it's there just to set up a permanent sandstorm and die, then a lvl 1 Aron with Sturdy, holding a SHELL BELL, and Endeavor comes out. The entire team gets sweeped, unless they're prepared for this. A poster mentioned Donphan, although it would have to be Phanpy if it was lvl 1. Ice Shard would allow pokemon that do not take damage from Sandstorm to be owned anyway after Endeavour.

Sturdy was so annoying in game I kept Arm Thrust on my Emboar for ages JUST so I could kill those annoying Roggenrolas/Boldores/whatever other Rock/Ground pokemon with one attack. Those sort of pokemon are no longer joke wild encounters with free exp by using Surf.

RedMage23
4th April 2011, 4:21 PM
Sawk + Salac Berry + Reversal = Winning

Is it OP? No, for reasons many have already said.

Sizerdrix
4th April 2011, 4:23 PM
Heh, when I voted it's a straight 8/8 tie over the issue.

Personally I think it's a gimmick that can be gotten around, just like level 1 endevour builds are. Sure, when you see a youtube video about it sweeping a team, the knee-jerk reaction is to call it overpowered and call for a ban right away. It just means that the other team was ill prepared for the chance of it happening. Those who build teams without thinking of other strategies (however gimmicky) than their own deserve to lose in such a way.

It should also be noted that a focus sash can be attached to any pokemon, whereas sturdy pokemon are easy to spot before you try dealing damage to them.

In 4th gen, priority became all the rage and many teams lost out if they didn't have a pokemon with priority in their team (i.e. one of the reasons that BP Scizor became as popular as it did). Perhaps in 5th gen, multi-hitting moves such as techniloom's bullet seed will be the mechanic that defines the generation?

In short. It's just something people will have to get used to dealing with. I don't think it's broken or overpowered, but we need to adapt to deal with it.

Final
4th April 2011, 4:29 PM
In-game. Not overpowered but annoying to say the least. Especially since I have to waste 2 PP for what should be an easy one-shot kill. Competitively, Stealth Rock and all that essentially nullify it. Get it up and keep it up and it shouldn't be a problem. For leads, it would be pretty much the same as how you would handle Focus Sash leads.

Clubinhand
4th April 2011, 4:42 PM
You know at least sturdy finally does something now. How many Pokemon before were just sitting on this ability unable to do anything with it? Pokemon like Aggron, Golem, need something like this they have 2 x4 weakness's, that's crap give them a chance to not get ohko by random things. Going sturdy explosion is just a one for one. the custap berry thing is cool but honestly what are you doing on that turn with your lead that's so back breaking all that effort to go first turn 2? Cause you know you can stop the explosion damp or ghost , even bring in your own focus sash user/sturdy if your fearing the explosion. I can't even believe people are going to remotely act like sash is broken with all the entry hazards as it is. There are a few pokemon that are annoying to see this ability with like skarmory and fortress but still if you can ohok the skamory/ fortress from that range there dead the next turn not a huge deal.

This isn't speed boost, serene grace, magic guard, magic mirror, prankster, or instant weather abilities. Now those are something you can argue about being overpower.

Mariya Shidou
4th April 2011, 4:58 PM
With that Sturdy, a lot of pokemon strategies have started forming round that ability.
Donphan lv 1 @ Shell Bell
Sturdy
-Endevour
-Ice Shard

Probopass lv1 @ Some random item.
Sturdy
-Pain Split

Most of them become awesome in sandstorm. But Donphan doesnt need sand storm. Just to name a few. That's why you carry priorities and attacks like bullet seed with you.

So to sum it up, kinda over powered. But not yet considered broken.

Sandstorm makes for a guaranteed kill against a non-Sand mon with Endeavor+Bell. Sturdy is easily circumnavigated by Gastro Acid or otherwise shutting out the opponent's ability. It is decidedly not overpowered. However, if everything is planned for, it can make matters really, really annoying for the unprepared.

Ingame, though, it is painful to deal with, since every cave has shitloads of those stupid rocks and their stupid Sturdy making me waste PP if I don't just walk away -- which I probably wouldn't, since EXP. It's like if they had Pressure, except when you have multi-hit moves (and I gave most of those up early on when something that wasn't so luck-based showed up).

Roughneck JB
4th April 2011, 5:00 PM
I would say No, because alot of Sturdy users are easily stopped by the very common problem that is Priority Attacks.
Plus, Sturdy/Explosion combinations are nowhere near as threatening in B/W since Explosion's power got cut in half

Hejiru
4th April 2011, 5:02 PM
It's good, but I wouldn't say "overpowered."

Mister_SGG
4th April 2011, 5:03 PM
One word. Stealthrock.

Fail. It's Stealth Rock. There's a space in between.

Dragoniteftw
4th April 2011, 5:03 PM
I wouldn't say overpowered, just so annoying!

endeavour teams are going to pop up quiet alot

Porygandrew
4th April 2011, 5:08 PM
I have Double Kick on my Sawk and it easily K.O.s any pokemon with Sturdy.

Seriously, if you're having trouble getting around Sturdy, you suck as a player.

CAH
4th April 2011, 5:14 PM
I have Double Kick on my Sawk and it easily K.O.s any pokemon with Sturdy.

Seriously, if you're having trouble getting around Sturdy, you suck as a player.

No one is claiming to have trouble getting around Sturdy, we're simply acknowledging that it's an overpowered ability. In saying it's overpowered we're not saying "OMG THERE'S NO WAY TO STOP IT", we're saying "It can be dealt with, but it's quite overpowered".

As I said, there are always certain ways around overpowered things, but this doesn't make them any less overpowered in the first place, and sturdy in particular can be tedious, especially on wild Pokemon.

Jb
4th April 2011, 5:23 PM
No because there are few pokemon that can be 1HKO'd anyway.

Wrong. Most pokemon with Sturdy have a 4x weakness to a common type, eg. Grass,Water,Fire or fighting.

Almost, if not all Sturdy users can be OHKO'd quite easily, the only ones that aren't are, Sawk, Crustle, and Regirock.

Everyone else is easlily OHKO'd by either there low defences or the 4x weakness to the types mentiond.

Skiks
4th April 2011, 5:27 PM
No one is claiming to have trouble getting around Sturdy, we're simply acknowledging that it's an overpowered ability. In saying it's overpowered we're not saying "OMG THERE'S NO WAY TO STOP IT", we're saying "It can be dealt with, but it's quite overpowered".

As I said, there are always certain ways around overpowered things, but this doesn't make them any less overpowered in the first place, and sturdy in particular can be tedious, especially on wild Pokemon.
Not really. Overpowered would mean it's really hard to defeat. And simply put it's not. Considering Mold Breaker can destroy it. Any multi-hit move can take it down.
Sand Rush is something people feel is rather overpowered and possibly is considering who has it(the mole). However Sturdy is on pokemon that are easily dealt with. All it does is work like focus sash and turns a one hit KO into a two hit KO.
I'm sorry but it's just too easy to beat to be overpowered at all.

With that Sturdy, a lot of pokemon strategies have started forming round that ability.
Donphan lv 1 @ Shell Bell
Sturdy
-Endevour
-Ice Shard

Probopass lv1 @ Some random item.
Sturdy
-Pain Split

Most of them become awesome in sandstorm. But Donphan doesnt need sand storm. Just to name a few. That's why you carry priorities and attacks like bullet seed with you.

So to sum it up, kinda over powered. But not yet considered broken.
These don't work unless you use no restrictions in wifi. In the ranked matches you're forced to be at level 50.

CAH
4th April 2011, 5:39 PM
Not really. Overpowered would mean it's really hard to defeat. And simply put it's not. Considering Mold Breaker can destroy it. Any multi-hit move can take it down.
Sand Rush is something people feel is rather overpowered and possibly is considering who has it(the mole). However Sturdy is on pokemon that are easily dealt with. All it does is work like focus sash and turns a one hit KO into a two hit KO.
I'm sorry but it's just too easy to beat to be overpowered at all.


Clearly everyone has their own definition of overpowered.

It's not just about being hard to defeat, but also how much of an advantage it can give to a Pokemon, and how many ridiculous combos can be formed as a result.

gliscor&yanmega
4th April 2011, 5:43 PM
Overpowered? No, not at all.

Annoying? Yes.

I think it's better this way, before it was pretty useless for the most part, now it at less how some use to it.

Skiks
4th April 2011, 5:43 PM
Clearly everyone has their own definition of overpowered.

It's not just about being hard to defeat, but also how much of an advantage it can give to a Pokemon, and how many ridiculous combos can be formed as a result.
But this isn't a matter of opinion actually if you can factually and soundly defeat them. They don't give that big of an advantage considering you're left with 1 hp. the next turn you're dead easily.

Painkiller2001
4th April 2011, 7:18 PM
Not overpowered, but annoying when you're not expecting it.

CAH
4th April 2011, 7:22 PM
But this isn't a matter of opinion actually if you can factually and soundly defeat them. They don't give that big of an advantage considering you're left with 1 hp. the next turn you're dead easily.

Yes, it is a matter of opinion because everyone clearly has their own definition of what overpowered is.

Surviving for one turn can give you a HUGE advantage, and people have already explained many situations in which this holds true.

Marbi Z
4th April 2011, 7:28 PM
All it is is a Focus Sash ability.

Endless
4th April 2011, 7:30 PM
I don't find it overpowered. Sure it give the lead the abillty to set up a pair of spikes beside SR and give some level 1 pokemon opportunities. My biggest problem with Sturdy is in-game. They are not overpowered, but it is annoying to use two attack instead of one, for the sake og time and PP used. Gamebreaking? No. Annoying? Yes, very much.

Skiks
4th April 2011, 7:35 PM
Yes, it is a matter of opinion because everyone clearly has their own definition of what overpowered is.

Surviving for one turn can give you a HUGE advantage, and people have already explained many situations in which this holds true.
Which are? If you can't beat FEAR pokemon or painsplit probopass you have issues. Even more so when these don't work in ranked battles.
Give me good examples where I can't provide a reasonable solution. Seriously just try it. And uh no one turn can't really help you all that much with such diminished HP in a place where priority moves are used so often. Maybe it's just your inability to think of a solution? Ever thought of that?
Do not use opinion as a way to dodge this. Give me concrete proof.

kaiser soze
4th April 2011, 7:49 PM
I think it would be rather difficult for a FEAR poke to get multiple KOs, without going out of your way with stuff like leach seed, wish, etc. and explosion would not be wise with a lv 1 poke vs a level 50/100.

actually come to think of it, if a sturdy FEAR had a shell bell and used endeavor, would that refill its hp?

Skiks
4th April 2011, 7:55 PM
Shell Bell can only heal 1/8 of the total HP and only when the opponent attacks. Considering people can use Fake out, statuses, and other things when they clearly know what the moveset for the FEAR pokemon is I'd say it's not hard to defeat. You can even switch out and calmly set up since FEAR pokemon do useless damage when not attack.
Hell set up substitute and pump your stats for a sweep if you wish.

CAH
4th April 2011, 8:24 PM
Which are? If you can't beat FEAR pokemon or painsplit probopass you have issues. Even more so when these don't work in ranked battles.
Give me good examples where I can't provide a reasonable solution. Seriously just try it. And uh no one turn can't really help you all that much with such diminished HP in a place where priority moves are used so often. Maybe it's just your inability to think of a solution? Ever thought of that?
Do not use opinion as a way to dodge this. Give me concrete proof.

I'm not using "opinion" to dodge anything. You said "Not really. Overpowered would mean it's really hard to defeat", however this is simply your opinion of what being overpowered is.

I think that overpowered is not always just something that is hard to defeat, but also something that gives a Pokemon an unreasonable advantage e.g. being able to survive any given attack essentially giving a Pokemon a built in focus sash.

You make it seem like I'm saying Sturdy is impossible to deal with. I'm not.
I am aware that there are ways of dealing with it, don't be foolish enough to assume that I somehow can't think of a way to get around it. However whilst there are solutions, the Pokemon having the ability in the first place is overpowered in my opinion.

" And uh no one turn can't really help you all that much with such diminished HP in a place where priority moves are used so often."

Having such diminished HP is the ideal oppurtunity to activate certain items, use certain moves etc.
It can help hugely, and you won't always have a priority move in every given situation when fighting a Pokemon with "sturdy".

This isn't about "concrete proof", because whether or not it's overpowered is a subjective matter. Clearly everyone has a different way of thinking, and I think that not being able to faint in one turn is quite overpowered.

Skiks
4th April 2011, 8:29 PM
I'm not using "opinion" to dodge anything. You said "Not really. Overpowered would mean it's really hard to defeat", however this is simply your opinion of what being overpowered is.

I think that overpowered is not always just something that is hard to defeat, but also something that gives a Pokemon an unreasonable advantage e.g. being able to survive any given attack essentially giving a Pokemon a built in focus sash.

You make it seem like I'm saying Sturdy is impossible to deal with. I'm not.
I am aware that there are ways of dealing with it, don't be foolish enough to assume that I somehow can't think of a way to get around it. However whilst there are solutions, the Pokemon having the ability in the first place is overpowered in my opinion.

" And uh no one turn can't really help you all that much with such diminished HP in a place where priority moves are used so often."

Having such diminished HP is the ideal oppurtunity to activate certain items, use certain moves etc.
It can help hugely, and you won't always have a priority move in every given situation when fighting a Pokemon with "sturdy".

This isn't about "concrete proof", because whether or not it's overpowered is a subjective matter. Clearly everyone has a different way of thinking, and I think that not being able to faint in one turn is quite overpowered.
Your way of thinking is way too flawed. You think in this manner. "If X Pokemon is in this situation with a certain advantage can cause problems and thus be overpowered"
I'm thinking in the "This is what usually happens in the metagame and what I run into on usual basis so this sturdy abuse isn't real viable at all." How is it overpowered when people usually have some move to use against it?

CAH
4th April 2011, 8:33 PM
Your way of thinking is way too flawed. You think in this manner. "If X Pokemon is in this situation with a certain advantage can cause problems and thus be overpowered"
I'm thinking in the "This is what usually happens in the metagame and what I run into on usual basis so this sturdy abuse isn't real viable at all." How is it overpowered when people usually have some move to use against it?

My way of thinking isn't flawed, you simple fail to see things from my point of view.

I'm saying that in comparison to most abilities "Sturdy" is an overpowered ability. It doesn't even have any drawbacks and yet it lets a Pokemon get an instant focus sash + any other item. That alone is overpowered.

Even if it happens in the metagame and people in certain situations have moves to use against it, it doesn't change that it's overpowered in the first place.

Overpowered is not the same as "unbeatable". There's a clear difference which I don't think you seem to understand.

ForeverFlame
4th April 2011, 8:38 PM
It's not overpowered, it's just very annoying. And BW is all about strategy. Before it was all about Garchomp, Skarmony, Blissey, etc., but moves like Shell Smash/Quiver Dance and Dream World abilities make even Butterfree and Cloyster forces to be reckoned with.

gliscor&yanmega
4th April 2011, 8:39 PM
It doesn't even have any drawbacks and yet it lets a Pokemon get an instant focus sash + any other item. That alone is overpowered.


Most abilities don't really have drawbacks to start off with, although a draw back for it could possibly be that it only allows you to survive moves that would finish you off in one hit while at full HP, any other time and it's useless. Sturdy simply got a more useful ability this time around. Before it was basically useless.

I don't see how they would change it to make it more useful but at the same time not make it "overpowered"(By your definition of overpowered that is).

It's just a small boost for usefulness.

Porgon-XYZ
4th April 2011, 8:41 PM
I figured this out while training my Haxorus. MOLD BREAKER IGNORES STURDY. I OHKOed a Boldore with earthquake.

CAH
4th April 2011, 8:45 PM
Most abilities don't really have drawbacks to start off with, although a draw back for it could possibly be that it only allows you to survive moves that would finish you off in one hit while at full HP, any other time and it's useless. Sturdy simply got a more useful ability this time around. Before it was basically useless.

I don't see how they would change it to make it more useful but at the same time not make it "overpowered"(By your definition of overpowered that is).

It's just a small boost for usefulness.

Usually really powerful abilities/Pokemon have drawbacks to make up for the benefits for example, Shedinja having 1 HP to make up for Wonderguard, Archaeon having Defeatist to make up for it's STATS etc.

I understand why people don't think it's overpowered but I simply disagree, because surviving all one hit kos is a big deal.

It's clearly a matter that people have different views on.

Vermehlo_Steele
4th April 2011, 8:46 PM
Funny, it used to be useless in Compet Battling, now it's apparently OP.

Annoying, yes; OP, no.

Owl
4th April 2011, 9:00 PM
All of this Fuss over 1 hp? Just Hit It twice.
Problem solved.

kaiser soze
4th April 2011, 10:17 PM
It's not overpowered, it's just very annoying. And BW is all about strategy. Before it was all about Garchomp, Skarmony, Blissey, etc., but moves like Shell Smash/Quiver Dance and Dream World abilities make even Butterfree and Cloyster forces to be reckoned with.

cloyster's getting big these days when it used to be overlooked. with skill link its icicle spear should break sturdy

Dattebayo
5th April 2011, 12:37 AM
The worst case scenario when dealing with a Sturdy Pokemon is when it uses Rock Polish and takes you down completely on the next turn.

Excitable Boy
5th April 2011, 12:41 AM
http://veekun.com/dex/moves/search?similar_to=Quick+Attack

NicSmitty
5th April 2011, 12:42 AM
Ugh, training on boldores is the most frustrating thing of all time. but battling with my Steelix against a water tank is cheese with the sturdy/explosion combo. too legit.

Emperor Empoleon
5th April 2011, 12:45 AM
Considering that it can in fact be beaten/broken, not at all :b

cookies kill you
5th April 2011, 12:48 AM
i find it more annoying

PinkPalkia
5th April 2011, 12:50 AM
I don't mind killing Marshal's Sawk in two turns. Sturdy is a foolproof way to set up something and finally has a better use than negated the banned OHKO moves.

Skydra
5th April 2011, 12:54 AM
Sturdy really isn't overpowered, its just better. I mean, if you have a Ghost type on your team Endeavor does nothing when you switch it in, so just keep a Ghost around and Voila, FEAR doesn't work (FEAR refers to the Focus Sash/Sturdy Endeavor+priority move strategy). And a lot of the time in competetive battling Sandstorm, Hail, or Stealth Rock will be up, so Sturdy will have no affect.

Mr. Marowak
5th April 2011, 1:04 AM
I found that it's yet ANOTHER reason that Marowak deserves Bonemerang over Eatrhquake. Can an Earthquake break a Sub AND a Sturdy? AND kill one one turn? Sorry. That's a NO!!!

McNugget
5th April 2011, 1:33 AM
It's bascically a focus sash app for your pokemon, not really fair for people who use items to do what sturdy does

capitalh
5th April 2011, 1:46 AM
It's like holding a focus slash and (if you wanted to) choice band at the same time. In other words OP.

Arcamenel
5th April 2011, 1:56 AM
I don't think it's OP but agree it's extremely annoying in game.

Excitable Boy
5th April 2011, 2:01 AM
It's bascically a focus sash app for your pokemon, not really fair for people who use items to do what sturdy does

How is that not fair? You do know that either player can use Sturdy, right?

PaluWoj
5th April 2011, 2:07 AM
I cannot possibly see how Sturdy would be overpowered. In Gen IV, Pokemon such as Garchomp were banned because almost every team had a dedicated Garchomp counter and the metagame revolved around being able to counter Garchomp. That is what overpowered is; the over-centralization of the metagame.

This is not the case with Sturdy Pokemon. There are numerous ways to counter them:
-Priority moves
-Multi-hit moves
-Hail/Sandstorm
-Mold Breaker/Unnerve/Flame Body/Poison Point
-Just being faster than the Sturdy Pokemon.

The first two options are moves that can find a place on any competitive team. Almost everyone has at least one priority user and there are five or so priority moves to choose from.

Multi-hit moves are also common with the increased usage of Cloyster and the introduction of Cincinno. They not only deal with sturdy, but also take care of things like Substitute and Focus Sash and have a place on any team.

Sandstorm takes care of some Sturdy users (e.g. Sawk) and hail, though infrequently used, counters the rest of them.

There are also abilities which negate Sturdy. Mold Breaker ignores it completely, Unnerve prevents Sturdy users from using stat-boosting berries, and Flame Body and Poison Point both threaten to leave a damaging status condition which will easily deal with the last point of HP.

Finally, many of the Sturdy Pokemon are slow, and can be out-sped before they get a chance to move on their second turn. Currently, Custap Berry hasn't been released, so that strategy can't really be argued about at this point in time. Also, priority still foils the Custap/ Sturdy strategy.

Also, as others have stated, Endeavor and Explosion can both be countered with ghost switch-ins, and moves such as worry seed, befriend, soak, and gastro acid also counter these pokemon.

One cannot argue that it is overpowered compared to other abilities because their are many abilities (Shadow Tag, Speed Boost, Perversity, Prankster, Magic Bounce, Magic Guard, Sand Rush, etc) that are arguably more powerful. Heck, even things like Natural Cure and Synchronize can be put to better use than Sturdy.

In summation, Sturdy provides many pokemon which were banished to UU or NU a chance to be used competitively. However, there are numerous things which counter Sturdy completely, and the ability often does not make up for the significant weaknesses its users have.

ParaChomp
5th April 2011, 2:16 AM
Sturdy got the boost it needed and became useful as 1 hit KO moves are banned.

Pseudo-Unlegendary
5th April 2011, 3:09 AM
Overpowered? No, it just got an upgrade from useless to useable.

Incredibly annoying? Hell yes.

Gamefreak
5th April 2011, 3:57 AM
I use Will o Wisp, Aron loses. There is also other ways previously stated how to beat the Sturdy pokemon with Endeavor.

Anyhoo, F.E.A.R pokemon like Probopass and Aron are a hit or miss.

sizida
5th April 2011, 4:02 AM
aron pwns real bad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJxvmtCwAZY)

well as people said, if you don't have status problem infliction such as burn on pokemon that has sturdy, this is what you get. aron that pwns you.

jesusfreak94
5th April 2011, 4:22 AM
I cannot possibly see how Sturdy would be overpowered. In Gen IV, Pokemon such as Garchomp were banned because almost every team had a dedicated Garchomp counter and the metagame revolved around being able to counter Garchomp. That is what overpowered is; the over-centralization of the metagame.

This is not the case with Sturdy Pokemon. There are numerous ways to counter them:
-Priority moves
-Multi-hit moves
-Hail/Sandstorm
-Mold Breaker/Unnerve/Flame Body/Poison Point
-Just being faster than the Sturdy Pokemon.

The first two options are moves that can find a place on any competitive team. Almost everyone has at least one priority user and there are five or so priority moves to choose from.

Multi-hit moves are also common with the increased usage of Cloyster and the introduction of Cincinno. They not only deal with sturdy, but also take care of things like Substitute and Focus Sash and have a place on any team.

Sandstorm takes care of some Sturdy users (e.g. Sawk) and hail, though infrequently used, counters the rest of them.

There are also abilities which negate Sturdy. Mold Breaker ignores it completely, Unnerve prevents Sturdy users from using stat-boosting berries, and Flame Body and Poison Point both threaten to leave a damaging status condition which will easily deal with the last point of HP.

Finally, many of the Sturdy Pokemon are slow, and can be out-sped before they get a chance to move on their second turn. Currently, Custap Berry hasn't been released, so that strategy can't really be argued about at this point in time. Also, priority still foils the Custap/ Sturdy strategy.

Also, as others have stated, Endeavor and Explosion can both be countered with ghost switch-ins, and moves such as worry seed, befriend, soak, and gastro acid also counter these pokemon.

One cannot argue that it is overpowered compared to other abilities because their are many abilities (Shadow Tag, Speed Boost, Perversity, Prankster, Magic Bounce, Magic Guard, Sand Rush, etc) that are arguably more powerful. Heck, even things like Natural Cure and Synchronize can be put to better use than Sturdy.

In summation, Sturdy provides many pokemon which were banished to UU or NU a chance to be used competitively. However, there are numerous things which counter Sturdy completely, and the ability often does not make up for the significant weaknesses its users have.

A couple nitpicks, but this pretty much sums it up. [/thread]

happisquare
6th April 2011, 11:33 AM
Aron just wrecked me online .-.
Sturdy / Endeavor / Shell Bell
is just too good and I didn't have any status infliction moves :(

AB2
7th April 2011, 1:21 AM
How would Sturdy + Explosion combos be broken? Explosion doesn't half your defense in this generation like it did in previous generations, but yeah its basically destroyed by priority and entry hazards. So no, its not overpowered at all.

legendarypokemonmaster
7th April 2011, 2:06 AM
Was explosion based off of 1/2 defense, or did it 1/2 defense after it was used?
Styrdy is pretty useful and actually allows some slower pokemon to get a move in without being 1-hit KOed, but it's not really overpowered.

jesusfreak94
7th April 2011, 3:26 AM
Was explosion based off of 1/2 defense, or did it 1/2 defense after it was used?
Styrdy is pretty useful and actually allows some slower pokemon to get a move in without being 1-hit KOed, but it's not really overpowered.

It was based on 1/2 defense while the attack was being used. Of course, that effect has been removed now.

happisquare
7th April 2011, 4:17 AM
Using an Aron right now :) SO far hes wrecking :D

Haxorusfan
7th April 2011, 4:21 AM
it just give you room for an item. It only deadly if its aron with shed shell :) It a fun way to win

happisquare
7th April 2011, 4:23 AM
wait whats a good item with it?

pikamanepicfail45
7th April 2011, 4:23 AM
Have any of you ever hear of Mold Breaker?
I watched that vid before anyone else.

Fake_Dark_Archon
7th April 2011, 11:18 PM
With that Sturdy, a lot of pokemon strategies have started forming round that ability.
Donphan lv 1 @ Shell Bell
Sturdy
-Endevour
-Ice Shard

Probopass lv1 @ Some random item.
Sturdy
-Pain Split

if you did that then people will see you as a hacker.
I can under stand the level 1 probopass but the level 1 donphan
hacker.

I wonder what it would be like to have a sturdy Shedinja.

jesusfreak94
7th April 2011, 11:26 PM
if you did that then people will see you as a hacker.
I can under stand the level 1 probopass but the level 1 donphan
hacker.

I wonder what it would be like to have a sturdy Shedinja.

Simulators.

And Sturdy Shedinja can be taken out by status and Sandstorm/Hail.

milotic111
8th April 2011, 3:41 PM
Simulators.

And Sturdy Shedinja can be taken out by status and Sandstorm/Hail.

There is a vid somewhere on youtube centering around sturdy Shedinja, but it requires massive set-up (first you need to worry-seed it, then skill-swap sturdy. And all the time have a cloud-nine pokemon out and safeguard.)

But really, with spikes (gets every one save the metal bird) and stealth rock still being popular, it's so easily countered it's ridiculous. And no it's not broken for having to use stealth rock, as people use that for completely different reasons.

Zachmac
9th April 2011, 7:55 AM
It's stopped by entry hazards, priority, and lot's of pokemon are only 2HKOed anyway.

Pansy :]
9th April 2011, 8:35 AM
I think it is.
There have been so many times when I'm training, and BAM! I couldn't beat a lv. 10 Roggenrola with my all-so powerful lv. 15 (at the time) Simipour because of its goddam sturdy :P

lunar22
9th April 2011, 8:59 AM
Good ability? Yes. Overpowered? Certainly not.

Trick Room Octillery
9th April 2011, 10:47 PM
You won't get a lot of Sturdy/Explosion sets in BW because Explosion got nerfed. It is negated, also, by Mold Breaker and Turboblaze/Teravolt.

Whimsicott
9th April 2011, 10:52 PM
I just add Toxic, Leech Seed or Will-o-wisp first...
Not really a big deal :/
Sturdy's annoying on wild Pokemon -.-
but it's a pretty useful ability :3

deoxysdude94
9th April 2011, 10:55 PM
in some ways yes, in some ways no. I hate fighting pokemon and having them live with one health. But the ability is better with the new addition.

dragoniteKnight
9th April 2011, 10:59 PM
most of the pokes that have it wont be 1 hit anyways because of thier high defences and entry hazards. only poke that truly 100% benifits are defensivly weak people like Sawk

DarkPhoenix
10th April 2011, 12:47 AM
It's not the fact that it is OP, its the fact that it's extremely annoying. For example once in either the super double subway or normal single battle, my chandelure will use energy ball, it should kill, then it is alive because of sturdy and KO's my chandelure with earthquake or some semi-strong rock move. Same with Carracosta.

MegaUnlimited
12th April 2011, 8:39 AM
Mold Breaker gets around sturdy.

Rocky Helmet, Rough Skin, Iron Barbs, and Mummy put a damper on sturdy as well. With so many outs, how can something be OP?

Lastly...sturdy itself is situational, only working in the event of a OHKO.

So to answer the question in fewer words. No.

seismitoad
12th April 2011, 9:41 PM
Sturdy is good and realy helpful (if your not the victim) but all those people getting pwned are idiots all you have to do is be prepared

UStrainer40137
12th April 2011, 9:46 PM
Sturdy is a bit annoying, but there are many ways of getting around it. One that I don't think was mentioned yet is using multi-strike moves like Icicle Spear.

Dragoniteftw
12th April 2011, 9:56 PM
most of the pokes that have it wont be 1 hit anyways because of thier high defences and entry hazards. only poke that truly 100% benifits are defensivly weak people like Sawk

very good piont, your going to have to take the poke down in atleast 2hits anyway

CaptainCombusken
12th April 2011, 10:21 PM
The only time it's "broken" at all is a FEAR Aron in Sandstorm.
Level 1, Sturdy, uses Endeavor, Shell bell restores all its health.

And even then, a well placed Toxic kills that tactic completely.
Other than that, no, not at all.

The Outcast
12th April 2011, 10:56 PM
No because its there to only prevent an Insta-kill on you're pokemon

It sounds like a second item on paper but if you take a single speck of damage (usually from fake out, spikes, status, or stealth rock) the ability fails.

Besides, as far as I know, no one can use a healing move and have sturdy at the same time. (Except I THINK Skarmory)

spartanlaser
12th April 2011, 11:02 PM
If you have it, its good. If not, its bad. Bye Bye explosion!

Lucky Applejack
12th April 2011, 11:06 PM
sturdy is a good ability, and with a status effect and stadium move (sandstorm etc.) it can be taken out. and it does open up the game to even more strategies, you really just have to know what pokemon have that ability and prepare ahead of time to see that pokemon... and alot of pokemon with sturdy are quite slow, so use that to your advantage!

Charmander#4
12th April 2011, 11:15 PM
sturdy is a good ability, and with a status effect and stadium move (sandstorm etc.) it can be taken out.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single Sturdy Pokémon that's affected ny Sandstorm.

123fakestreet
12th April 2011, 11:18 PM
Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single Sturdy Pokémon that's affected ny Sandstorm.

Sawk, can't think of another.

Zach74
13th April 2011, 12:07 AM
Well, all the uses for this newfound Sturdy ability have been nurfed, so it's not overpowered at all.
Most (MOST!) of the things that have it are heavily defensive, and normally wouldn't get OHKO'd anyway, unless they were playing stupid. If Sturdy had not been given this added effect, I don't think the Pokemon that have it would be running a Sash. So it's a "buff" for nothing.

Explosion's power got cut, making it an ok move at best. The only thing that's scary about the Sturdy is if the opponent has something like Endeavor, like Donphan. But even then, it's no different from facing a Donphan with a Sash.

Entry hazards are all over the place. It doesn't get the effect often enough to be overpowered. Just carry Stealth Rock. Problem solved.

There has also been an increase in the usage of Pokemon that use multi-hit moves, due to the ability Skill Link, Cinccino and Cloyster, to name a few. These multi-hit attacks also stop the secondary ability of Sturdy from activating.

And obviously priority moves, which every team should be carrying anyway.

Not overpowered. I've never had any problems with it. There are too may solutions to it for it to be overpowered.

Angeltripper
13th April 2011, 12:09 AM
you can easily stop sturdy with haxorus family, rampardos family, zekrom, or reshirim with thier abilities. but if there's one annoying sturdy like thing, it is FEAR (Focus sash, Endeavor, quick Attack, Rattata/ F***ing, Evil, Annoying, Rodant)

SnowyPiplup
13th April 2011, 12:31 AM
I don't think it's overpowered, since there's ways to get around it, but damn is it annoying. >.<

Sweep Freak
13th April 2011, 12:41 AM
It's so amazing how the worst ability in the game shot up to the near-best.

DarkPhoenix
13th April 2011, 12:58 AM
Its just bad for certain pokemon my darmanitan almost ko anyting thrn sturdy allows them to use a ground or rock move and kill me

Thebritains
13th April 2011, 3:44 AM
I wouldnt say its OP more like incredibly annoying, plus entry hazards/Fake outs break it dont they?

Zachmac
13th April 2011, 6:33 AM
The only time it's "broken" at all is a FEAR Aron in Sandstorm.
Ghost, Ground types, Rock types, Steel types, Politoed, Ninetales, Abomnasnow, Trickers, Lickylicky, Altaria, SubSeaders, Toxic, will-o-wisp, other pokemon with sturdy.

chanseychansey77
13th April 2011, 8:33 PM
If Will-O-Wisp and Scald weren't TMs, and entry hazards weren't so common, Sturdy would be overpowered.

Venomrec
13th April 2011, 8:35 PM
In game its annoying especially on sawk.

Agonist
13th April 2011, 8:46 PM
The only time it's "broken" at all is a FEAR Aron in Sandstorm.
Level 1, Sturdy, uses Endeavor, Shell bell restores all its health.

And even then, a well placed Toxic kills that tactic completely.
Other than that, no, not at all.


Aron isn't affected by toxic, so it doesn't kill that tactic at all

CaptainCombusken
13th April 2011, 8:57 PM
Oh yeah forgot about that. Must ahve been thinking about Donohan with the same tactic.

But then just use Will-o-wisp instead. Or Entry hazards. Either way it's definitely not broken.

PokeHax
14th April 2011, 5:00 AM
As others have said, any form of damage will break it. That means:
Sandstorm, Hail, spikes and even stealth rock will break it. Then, moves that hit twice can also break it.
And even then, any priority move can quickly finish them off. This does mean that they can get a free set up / kill.
However, I have had someone set up a wish with sturdy. It was annoying, but I worked around it.

Sporetox
14th April 2011, 5:15 AM
1: Mold Breaker
2. Mummy
3. Gastro Acid
4. Poison/Burn
5. Stealth rock/spikes
6. hail/sandstorm
7. Multi-attack moves

GarSlizer
14th April 2011, 6:16 AM
Fail. It's Stealth Rock. There's a space in between.

And let's not forget Spikes, Sandstorm, Leech Seed (mostly from Whimsicott and Ferrothorn), and Burn/Poison

Derp
15th April 2011, 12:43 AM
No its not over powered but just a very good and useful ability now.

Im just happy its not useless like in Gen 3 and 4.

CrobatOwns
15th April 2011, 12:50 AM
It is overpowered but weather and spikes/rocks etc but is still really good.

iampatrick92
15th April 2011, 3:05 AM
And let's not forget Spikes, Sandstorm, Leech Seed (mostly from Whimsicott and Ferrothorn), and Burn/Poison

seconded. most sturdy pokemon can be defeated through subseeding, and even though now that its effect is similar to focus sash, the more that we should be thankful for hail to eliminate these things, especially endeavor based sturdy pokemon.

TheLastPokemonTrainer
15th April 2011, 10:59 PM
It's not overpowered, it just turned into an actual useful ability in the gen. The only thing that I don't like about it is in-game battling boldores and never being able to just take them out in one hit and continue on walking through a cave.

Venomfang
15th April 2011, 11:28 PM
I don't think so.

MissAshley
17th April 2011, 2:15 AM
I dig it, but I would have preferred the ability to only work once per battle. I wouldn't be surprised to see the ability be nerfed like that in the next game.

Mutsumi
17th April 2011, 4:41 PM
I can see how Sturdy could frustrate people in singles battles, but in doubles or triples it is no problem at all. Also, the same tactic could be used by any Pokémon holding a Focus Sash who can use Endeavor, Pain Split, etc.

PokemonOwn
17th April 2011, 4:48 PM
I don't think that it's broken or overpowered. I'm just happy that it's not useless like in Gen 3 or 4.

Marshal's Sawk is broken, though.

Dragonsssssssss
17th April 2011, 4:49 PM
I can see how Sturdy could frustrate people in singles battles, but in doubles or triples it is no problem at all. Also, the same tactic could be used by any Pokémon holding a Focus Sash who can use Endeavor, Pain Split, etc.

But with focus sash, it only works once, I believe. With sturdy though, once a poke reaches full health, it can activate again.

Darkblade332
18th April 2011, 3:23 PM
Fakeout stops sturdy or use Moves like roar and or dragon tail

Aquadon
18th April 2011, 4:04 PM
In game its annoying especially on sawk.

Truth; I'm out here training, run into a Sawk and think "Eh, I can get Experience off of it". Next thing I know, my Lickilicky gets a Counter to the face and now I have to make up for it.

The Tyranitar
18th April 2011, 7:52 PM
You do know Donphan Can't be on LV1 since it's a second form duh One more thing ever can Probopass!!!!

Snigeln
18th April 2011, 9:48 PM
I wouldn´t say it´s overpovered, but useful.
Can be annoying though, when you battle low trainers which you can easily 1 hit, and then it turns out they have sturdy. Made me hate Roggenrola in the beginning of BW.

Redlemon
25th April 2011, 7:06 PM
I don't get you people.
Gen 4: "OMFG STURDY SUCKS, SO USELESS!!!11"
Gen 5: "OMFG STURDY IMBA, TO OVERPOWERED!!!11"

Now that they made it useful, it's imba? We should ban flame body and static too, they're too imba.

ClefairyRox
25th April 2011, 7:26 PM
Sturdy can be annoying, but it is definitely a great ability now. Yes, there are tons of people who abuse it (like the aformentioned aron and donphan) but as a whole, I think its a great improvement on an otherwise useless ability.

RifleAvenger
25th April 2011, 7:30 PM
Sturdy needed an improvement, and it got one. In most cases it's no more difficult to deal with than a pokemon with a focus sash.

Haunt
30th April 2011, 4:47 PM
actually only weather and damaging status or multi hitting moves can beat these pokemon correct me if i am mistaken but on the turn you use to damage it hoping to finish it off with priority on the next turn they would just use endeavor with shell bell or pain split
regaining max hp therefore starting with max hp with sturdy intact(unless sturdy is a one use thing that is)

Final
30th April 2011, 11:34 PM
actually only weather and damaging status or multi hitting moves can beat these pokemon correct me if i am mistaken but on the turn you use to damage it hoping to finish it off with priority on the next turn they would just use endeavor with shell bell or pain split
regaining max hp therefore starting with max hp with sturdy intact(unless sturdy is a one use thing that is)

Priority generally beats Endeavor abuse but Endeavor sets are gimmicks. It also picks off stuff hanging on with 1 HP after Sturdy. Also, Sturdy isn't a one-off deal. If HP gets fully restored (ie. A Skarmory that has Roosted itself back to full health or something), it will activate again which is a little cheap and irritating. Stealth Rock and in the case of grounded stuff Spikes also renders Sturdy useless until they're back to full health via Lefties or something so it's nothing that can't be dealt with.

Silent Conversation
30th April 2011, 11:41 PM
I think "annoying" is a better word than "overpowered". I mean, I want to throw something when I use a Surf on a Boldore and it's left with 1 HP, but that doesn't mean it's overpowered. A Pokemon with Sturdy isn't invincible, it just gets at least one turn to attack its opponent.

Witchan
30th April 2011, 11:43 PM
Yes, it is overpowered, especially if the Sturdy user makes a deadly combination with a Custap Berry such as Gigalith with Stone Edge and Explosion to knockout two pokemon at the same time.

#1treeckofan
30th April 2011, 11:57 PM
^sinnoh champion

i agree. annoying is a better term

Psycho Cut
30th April 2011, 11:58 PM
I voted Yes. It believe it is OP because of all these stratagies (mentioned on pg1) that can come about from it which are just ridiculous. Although it can be broken with priority moves or moves like icicle spear or bonemerang, most people are starting to have these in there teams purely to break sturdy, that seems silly to me.

On the flipside, it's nice giving these pokemon like golem a chance, who'd normally be OHKO'd against things like surf.

battle171
14th May 2011, 11:38 PM
Not really. I know what everyone is saying, but either way you look at it, Entry Hazards like SR and spikes are still commonly played on Wi-Fi and such, break Sturdy's use. Of course, the new Sturdy mechanics have introduced a whole new FEAR strategy (one that can be used over and over), but it is counterable (I think I just made up a word, lol)

Squirtle102
14th May 2011, 11:45 PM
All it does is protect certain death moves. It's overpowered in B&W.

Zachmac
14th May 2011, 11:47 PM
I voted Yes. It believe it is OP because of all these stratagies (mentioned on pg1) that can come about from it which are just ridiculous. Although it can be broken with priority moves or moves like icicle spear or bonemerang, most people are starting to have these in there teams purely to break sturdy, that seems silly to me.
Most pokemon don't have moves just to beet them, priority moves are just useful. Besides, there is nothing Endeavor/Pain Spit can do to Ghost, so all you have to do is send out your spin blocker(If you have one). Sturdy doesn't work after SR, either, and almost everyone uses SR.

If sturdy is overpowered, so are sashes, since they're almost the same thing.

Now, speed boost is the overpowered one.