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Zodiac Meteor
18th April 2011, 8:20 PM
Warning: This team setup might be banned. I would highly suggest not making this team setup for competitive battling! You have been warned.
I've been running into these combo's left and right online. A team that utilizes Justified and Beat Up to insanely boosts the Pokemon's attack, making for a nearly unstoppable sweep.

For example, using Weavile to Beat Up Terrakion, then Terrakions Justified ability activates on each hit. Since Beat Up is a dark move and hits ~6 times, it will max Terrakions attack stat. The third Pokemon, sometimes Whimsicott, uses a defensive move like Tailwind, Wide Guard, Helping Hand or even Beat Up. Lastly, Terrakion uses Rock Slide and wipes the opponents team in one attack.

The best counter possible is Wide Guard or killing Terrakion before he attacks. If your Pokemon is fast enough and use Skill Swap on Terrakion is another possible counter (stealing Justified) but highly unlikely.

If you cannot stop rock slide and kill Terrakion, it's game over, simple as that.

This is insanely overpowered, nearly impossible to counter and ironically gives a bad message (Beat Up your allies, it's makes them stronger)

I've been running into these teams left and right and for good reason, their nearly unstoppable.

What are your thoughts on this? I want it banned.

Fortunately my team utilizes Wide Guard and Trick Room to deal with these teams. Their not a problem from me, however, any other team is royally screwed. Sadly, all of people I come across rages if Terrakion dies.

Side Note: Tauros and Frostbreath is a less popular combo, but it's just as bad having Frostbreath (always critical) activating Tauros Anger Point (maxes attack if hit by a critical) to max his attack, then Tauros uses Rock Slide to sweep the opposing team. But this is unfavorable.

danburite3
19th April 2011, 1:16 AM
Don't use Beat Up on the Musketeer Trio. Seems pretty straightforward to me. :P

Mister_SGG
19th April 2011, 1:22 AM
It sounds good in theory, but has a lot of flaws.

Aquadon
19th April 2011, 1:30 AM
Ummmmm.... while I LOVE this combo, there's some idea I'm thinking of:

1) Use a Justified Pokemon with a Quad resistance to Dark to help out. Like..... Lucario or Cobalion. Wouldn't be a bad idea.
2) Use a Pokemon with not so high attack for Beat Up. Whimsy is a good choice, as it can set up before Beating you up. Maybe cripple the opponent before you go for the Beat Up.

These are thoughts to consider, just for kicks.

Psycesar
19th April 2011, 1:30 AM
Never thought of that, what i do for Triple battles that helps me win and i have not lost with this is have serperior and samurott use their pledges to create the swamp which lowers the opponent team speed after that my team will go first in attacking matching weaknesses right or just plainly using high powered moves will usually kill them 1 hit.
This combo helps a lot since both serperior and samurott were breed for speed to get the swamp out first then even my rhyperior that is good for high attack can kill first and fast.

Zodiac Meteor
19th April 2011, 1:58 AM
Don't use Beat Up on the Musketeer Trio. Seems pretty straightforward to me. :P

What? I can't tell my opponent not to use Beat Up on his own Pokemon.


It sounds good in theory, but has a lot of flaws.

Please name them. I've seen this 'theory' shred my friends team apart and occasionally beat me. If I don't have Wide Guard on my team, it's GG.


Ummmmm.... while I LOVE this combo, there's some idea I'm thinking of:

1) Use a Justified Pokemon with a Quad resistance to Dark to help out. Like..... Lucario or Cobalion. Wouldn't be a bad idea.
2) Use a Pokemon with not so high attack for Beat Up. Whimsy is a good choice, as it can set up before Beating you up. Maybe cripple the opponent before you go for the Beat Up.

Beat up on a Fighting/Steel, deals a 1/4th of damage, +Shed Bell = full healing with 1 rock slide.
By the way, Beat Up in unaffected by the attack stat.
What am I saying? Healing Terrakion is not needed at all.

legendarypokemonmaster
19th April 2011, 2:01 AM
Guys!!!! Triple Battles Thread!!!!! Would be cool if some people talked about competitive stuff there!!!!!!

Zodiac Meteor
19th April 2011, 2:14 AM
Guys!!!! Triple Battles Thread!!!!! Would be cool if some people talked about competitive stuff there!!!!!!

/facepalm. I lost 3 searching skills internet points.

Oh well, this is a really annoying balance issue anyways, than Triple Battles itself. I guess it could slide as it's own thread.

My bad. I hate multiple threads myself.

Zachmac
20th April 2011, 2:27 AM
Well, try a scarfed Terrokion with rock slide in the center of triple battle. Give it you first teammate to beat priority, and then the one that knows beat up can handle anything that resist it.

windsong
20th April 2011, 3:56 AM
This strategy is really common in VGC '11-- Erufuun + Terakion.
Terakion Rock Slides turn 1 while Erufuun uses Beat Up, then Protect as Erufuun uses Tailwind. But it's really easy to deal with -- Just take out Terakion turn one, or have something sashed, since entry hazards basically don't exist in VGC play, and Erufuun isn't really damaging anything. And why would you want it banned? It's really easy to counter, and something that literally any good Doubles/Triples player should be prepared for, and you have literally no excuse not to be.

Shining Fire
20th April 2011, 5:14 AM
Try it with Weavile, because it's easier for Terrakion and Weavile to hold a Scarf, so Weavile will be waaaay faster than it, and you won't need any Tailwind.

Swamptorizard
13th July 2011, 11:24 PM
Ummmmm.... while I LOVE this combo, there's some idea I'm thinking of:

1) Use a Justified Pokemon with a Quad resistance to Dark to help out. Like..... Lucario or Cobalion. Wouldn't be a bad idea.
2) Use a Pokemon with not so high attack for Beat Up. Whimsy is a good choice, as it can set up before Beating you up. Maybe cripple the opponent before you go for the Beat Up.

These are thoughts to consider, just for kicks.

Whimsy would be a good choice for speed, as you dont want dark stab increasing the damage of beat up on justified like weavile does, one that I use is slightly slower than whimsy but effective is Charizard, hes also good for double/triple thx to heatwave

Zachmac
13th July 2011, 11:47 PM
Scizor bullet munch.
Breloom Mach Punch.
Anything that can take the hit(my renuculis could, and a lot of ground/steel types could).
Choice scarf.
Targeting the justified one, because the strategy is obvious when you see it.
Rock slide could miss.
Trick room.

Beck
14th July 2011, 12:20 AM
Yeah, I would rather use a 0 Attk IV Whimsicott w/Beat Up than a Weavile. Whimsicott, if bulky enough, can take hits as well as properly support Terrakion with Beat Up and Tailwind. In fact, the standard Whimsicott set with minor adjustments could do the trick.

Although, as mentioned earlier, I would prefer a Cobalion over a Terrakion. Cobalion's base Defense is significantly higher, and both have the same base Speed. Although Terrakion does have a significantly higher base Attack, once maxed, I would imagine the difference would become minimal. Cobalion might have a longer survivability, especially when taking hits from its partner in crime.

Clubinhand
14th July 2011, 5:43 AM
Anyone just blowing this strategy off like it isn't dangerous is just being arrogant. The strategy in front of you threatens to kill any team not running a specific counter measure turn 1. Only something with a x4 rock resistance can hope to live the hit. I hate when people say this has a counter but the counter forces you to play in such an obvious fashion that its retard easy to go o look there's szicor/breloom switch in gyrados, taunt trick room poke laugh at them. Use third poke for either more set up or hell that weavile might have just killed breloom. I don't know how a complex ban like this would work out but that team setup is indeed broken. Its just people don't play enough triples to warrant bans when there needed to make that tier interesting. It doesn't have to be weavile or whatever it just has to be a sashed beat up poke faster then terrakion (pst use dugtrio) next to a prankster tail wind whimscot/ tornados. Scarfers don't work unless you get crazy and scarf deoxy-s speed which is a hilarious starter counter requirement to kill a terrakion.

Zachmac
14th July 2011, 8:20 AM
Anyone just blowing this strategy off like it isn't dangerous is just being arrogant. The strategy in front of you threatens to kill any team not running a specific counter measure turn 1.But it's so popular, you should have a counter for it. You probably aren't too experienced with double/triple battles if you don't have a counter.

Clubinhand
14th July 2011, 8:50 AM
But it's so popular, you should have a counter for it. You probably aren't too experienced with double/triple battles if you don't have a counter.

Yes and the counters force you to play so stupidly obvious in the scenario giving them options to have an easy backup plan. Scizor/ breloom plus trickroom is the best counter but that's one turn that decides the whole game that's crap. That not competitive that's over centralized. Yes I agree you should have counter cause its so popular buts its garbage for a game to turn into a coinflip. Cause you either play the strategy or hate on the strategy.

Honestly if anyone finds that fun your just a sad addict to this game. It should be banned. Triples is horrible right now.

Blue Harvest
14th July 2011, 10:13 AM
It should be banned. Triples is horrible right now.

How about instead of crying "ban!!!" when something beats you, TRY TO BEAT IT. Just because your bad strategies don't work doesn't mean the plan is broken.

Garchomp / Thunderus lead wrecks that set.

Other common doubles stuff like Latios, Metagross, Tornadus, FAKE OUT, Weavile, Infernape, Trick Room and Wide Guard stop the strategy cold. Also don't forget about random scarfers, Mach Punch and so on.

Just because you can't beat a highly predictable and counter able strategy doesn't mean its broken.

Darkerones
14th July 2011, 11:03 AM
How about instead of crying "ban!!!" when something beats you, TRY TO BEAT IT.

If only Smogon could hear you say this again.....all the unnecessary bans,smh.

Zachmac
14th July 2011, 8:51 PM
If only Smogon could hear you say this again.....all the unnecessary bans,smh. OU has a wider range of pokemon to use no that all the major threats are gone.

They do understand this, that's why that have uber battles in the first place.

Darkerones
14th July 2011, 10:13 PM
OU has a wider range of pokemon to use no that all the major threats are gone.

They do understand this, that's why that have uber battles in the first place.

Drizzle+SS ban? WTF? And they don't ban Sandstorm+SR?Makes no sense. Obviously it's just cuz some people on that site can't stop whining when they can't beat a strategy and BOOM,ban -_____-

3.14kachu
15th July 2011, 1:19 AM
Do any of your remember the strategy Rage + Spike Cannon? One pokemon would use rage, and the other would Spike Cannon it, thus increasing its attack stat 2-5 times. It wasn't used too much because the only pokemon that could use it well (Cloyster, with Skill Link) was terrible. Now, in 5th Gen, we have the option of using Cinccino instead. This is a strategy that has just about the same destructive capability, but nobody uses it. Why?

MetalFlygon08
15th July 2011, 2:06 AM
I thought Rage only increased the power of Rage with any damage (the atk boost was RBY exclusive, and the trade-off was being locked into Rage iirc).

3.14kachu
15th July 2011, 3:59 AM
No, it increases your attack. You would have to keep using Rage to keep getting this effect, because the attack boosts will only happen the turn after you use Rage. Still, these boosts are permanent and will not wear off after you stop using Rage.

Another similar strategy is having a Cinccino use Bullet Seed on a pokemon with Sap Sipper, like a Boufalant or a Zebstrika. It would work the same way, with the Sap Sipper pokemon gaining a +5 attack boost. The advantage to this latter strategy is that the Sap Sipper pokemon could attack immediately afterward or further raise its stats. I just thought of this, so I get credit if you're going to use this, but it might already be in use. I wouldn't know, since I never play doubles.

rocky505
15th July 2011, 4:14 AM
I used Whimsicott and Virizion for this. Virizion raped with Leaf Blade,Sacred sword,Stone edge.

Blue Harvest
15th July 2011, 4:32 AM
If only Smogon could hear you say this again.....all the unnecessary bans,smh.

You do know literally the only thing banned this gen that wasn't last is Blaziken.. don't you.

Darkerones
15th July 2011, 6:06 AM
You do know literally the only thing banned this gen that wasn't last is Blaziken.. don't you.

And why? Because it was "broken"? Blaziken was never broken -.-

Clubinhand
15th July 2011, 6:43 AM
How about instead of crying "ban!!!" when something beats you, TRY TO BEAT IT. Just because your bad strategies don't work doesn't mean the plan is broken.

Garchomp / Thunderus lead wrecks that set.

Other common doubles stuff like Latios, Metagross, Tornadus, FAKE OUT, Weavile, Infernape, Trick Room and Wide Guard stop the strategy cold. Also don't forget about random scarfers, Mach Punch and so on.

Just because you can't beat a highly predictable and counter able strategy doesn't mean its broken.

Ok believe or I'm not having that much trouble beating this team. The issue is not that you can't counter it like many other scenarios its that you have to do something specif to counter it or you lose immediately. Also why do you say scarfers work is this some PO mistake? Tailwind is boosted by prankster meaning terrakion and freinds are moving at speed well past what the average scarf poke can. Terrakion behind tailwind hits a max speed of 692. Also I don't think this combo is broken in doubles which then yes that garchomp/thunerdous lead can work fine the problem with them is if that you plan its really is a coin flip cause if you use tornadous instead of whimscot you will likely invest all 252 ev's making it a speed tie weather priority taunt will stop the tail wind from happening. You shouldn't want to play coin flip games like that. The thing is the combo in triples threatens an immediate wipe to any team unware. In doubles that's not that case cause terrakion doesn't threaten to reach +6 off the bat. Things like fake out, bullet punch do stop the combo but only stops it from killing you off the bat. But its painfully obvious its coming cause they have very little choice to go for it or lose the game right then. That's what I mean when I say coin toss. It makes for a very boring tier where strategy's become very tight with what can be used. I feel you miss what I'm saying the advantage the combo player truly has yes his plan is obvious but us playing the counter strategy makes us have to play in a far more obvious manner. Meaning there in drivers seat to make the big decisions giving there are definitely ways to cover the plans faults. Then whats stopping them from resetting up the combo? You have to keep in mind it threatens to kill your whole team in one shot. That's not something Pokemon has ever had to think about before.

Yes its lame to call ban but Triples like I said is horrible right now. I respect you as moderator but you should realize the reason why its truly broken is your forced to to play with what few counter there are or lose. That's a dull format that plays out like a coin flip.

DrasticPhase
15th July 2011, 8:26 AM
Two words
Rage QUIT!

I saw this strategy then rage quit
this is how it turned out

1:Tornadus use Tailwind
2:Weavile use beat Up
3:Terrakion use rock slide
4:all pokemon dies
5:rage quit

Mutsumi
15th July 2011, 9:11 AM
You do know literally the only thing banned this gen that wasn't last is Blaziken.. don't you.

Drizzle+SwiftSwim says hi.

Tyranitarquake
15th July 2011, 9:21 AM
Someone tried it against me but i had scizor by my side. He bullet punched terrakion out of the way.

PoignantLyrics
15th July 2011, 9:22 AM
And why? Because it was "broken"? Blaziken was never broken -.-

How is the ability to outspeed almost everything in OU, while at least 2HKO'ing them, not broken? Salamence was deemed broken last gen on that last criteria alone. So really, Blaziken's ban is the same case as Salamences, except he can outrun almost everything. Seriously, if you're going to honestly say Blaziken wasn't broken, then you're completely ignoring everything 5th Gen gave it.


Drizzle+SwiftSwim says hi.

I'm pretty sure Blue Harvest meant individual Pokemon bans. Not to mention, technically, this was banned last Gen. They trialled both Drought and Drizzle in OU in the forms of heavily nerfed Kyogre / Groudon, and the permanent Rain/Sun was deemed too much, so Smogon decided to leave it in Ubers.

Dragonite0217
15th July 2011, 5:34 PM
Two words
Rage QUIT!

I saw this strategy then rage quit
this is how it turned out

1:Tornadus use Tailwind
2:Weavile use beat Up
3:Terrakion use rock slide
4:all pokemon dies
5:rage quit

problem with that is that terakion will take a lot of damage due to stab beat up coming off of 125 base atack.

LightingKimba
15th July 2011, 6:10 PM
5th Gen seems to be home to a load of surprises, and this tactic is one that comes only once on a full moon. Good to see abilities like this used in unique ways like this one.

Kansas_Rocks!
15th July 2011, 6:37 PM
I would say a good counter would be a protecting speed boost blaziken, but behold it's banned.

Prankstar 73
15th July 2011, 6:39 PM
I've seen the Justified+Beat up strategy used once or twice, and both times kit's been Smeargle, who has an abysmal Attack stat.

It's very good, but having a Smeargle use beat up is better than having Weavile use it.

Zachmac
15th July 2011, 8:48 PM
Drizzle+SS ban? WTF? And they don't ban Sandstorm+SR?Makes no sense. Obviously it's just cuz some people on that site can't stop whining when they can't beat a strategy and BOOM,ban -_____-Excadrill is the only sand rush threat. Not to mention, Drizzle+Swift Swim also boost water STAB, making them smash heads in. In the 4th gen, I used a Kyogre/Kabutops combo, and I actually swept most teams I fought with it.
It's very good, but having a Smeargle use beat up is better than having Weavile use it.
But smeargle's not fast enough.

Mutsumi
16th July 2011, 1:36 AM
I would say a good counter would be a protecting speed boost blaziken, but behold it's banned.

Banned in singles, perhaps, but when have the usual tiers ever taken doubles or triples into consideration? Speed Boost Blaziken is hardly broken in triples.

Zekromaster826
21st July 2011, 7:27 PM
Ummmmm.... while I LOVE this combo, there's some idea I'm thinking of:

1) Use a Justified Pokemon with a Quad resistance to Dark to help out. Like..... Lucario or Cobalion. Wouldn't be a bad idea.
2) Use a Pokemon with not so high attack for Beat Up. Whimsy is a good choice, as it can set up before Beating you up. Maybe cripple the opponent before you go for the Beat Up.

These are thoughts to consider, just for kicks.

I agree that's a good idea

Silvershark
21st July 2011, 9:51 PM
Two words
Rage QUIT!

I saw this strategy then rage quit
this is how it turned out

1:Tornadus use Tailwind
2:Weavile use beat Up
3:Terrakion use rock slide
4:all pokemon dies
5:rage quit

You should be banned from Wifi Random Matchup along with all other rage quitters.

Anyways I frequently make use of the Justified/Beat up and Anger Point/Frost Breathe combos (though I usely utilise Cobalion over Terrakion. Less power, more adaptability.). It's pretty easy to see coming and easy to counter. Just carry some priority moves on your team, which you should do anyways in triples for cases such as Rain/ Swift Swim/ Surf, Sandstorm/ Excadrill, Drought/ Tailwind/ Eruption, Abomasnow, and the triple Round combo. Even if Justified and Anger Point combos get banned, there's still endless strategies for near instant wins.

starapter7
19th August 2011, 5:40 PM
OMFG
COUNTER*****
Have a Justified Lucario use "Follow Me" on the weavile. The weavile beats up ur Lucario for .25% Damage and ur attack maxes while his terakion is worthless. ROCK SLIDE WITH LUCARIO. :D (Tell me if Justified Lucario can't use follow me ._.)

Pichu47
20th August 2011, 1:18 AM
I don't know if Lucaio can learn follow me, but it is also unreleased. Here's a counter. A fast pokemon with taunt. nuff said.

Soperman
20th August 2011, 1:57 AM
I don't know if Lucaio can learn follow me, but it is also unreleased. Here's a counter. A fast pokemon with taunt. nuff said.
But Beat Up is an attacking move...

Pichu47
20th August 2011, 2:16 AM
Lol. I was multi-tasking and accidentally put that in which was what i was thinking about on my other.....it's complicated. lulz. Just kill terikion the first turn.

Typo
20th August 2011, 6:53 AM
Yes, strategies are powerful. This doesn't mean they should be banned. If ANY of the three lead Pokemon are killed, the entire strategy is a bust.

Terrakion MUST be the center Pokemon for this to hit hard. Otherwise, the Rock Slide will only hit two of the enemy's Pokemon. This works in reverse. If Terrakion can hit all three of its enemies, all three of its enemies can hit Terrakion with everything they got. If Terrakion is dead, so is the strategy. Terrakion also only has base 108 Speed which leaves a lot available to attack it. And if it's expecting a Tailwind, chances are it's not going to be running max Speed. It's better off focusing those EVs in its Defenses or HP.

Blue Harvest
20th August 2011, 7:58 AM
If you see Terrakion / Weavile / Whimsicott on your opponents team in the preview and you lose its your own damn fault for not

A) packing a counter to a popular team type
B) being surprised by it

Use your brain people. Its as simple as one Fake Out user vs Terrakion to destroy the combo, or a single Pokemon who can survive +6 Rock Slide (which has something like 168 base power resisted including STAB.. strong, but it wont clean out teams).

poopoop
20th August 2011, 8:00 AM
make a pokemon use fake out on terrakion then none of your poke gets hurt that turn. or have 2 poke use mach punch on it might work

MetalSonic
20th August 2011, 8:13 AM
Teh, that strategy is 4 weaklings who can't make anything else more viable work! >:0

Though...I don't mind going against it as all you would have 2 do is take out the Cobalion or whatever and laugh as your opponent more then likely ragequits. xD

Pixelz
20th August 2011, 8:17 AM
Just declare Tarrekkion Uber, and be done with it.

cdawg3574
20th August 2011, 12:09 PM
adaptability aqua jet basculin, focus sash mach punch/vaccum wave infernape/ life orb NP lucario (4x resist...) and the list goes on and on... Its all about priority. without it, enjoy getting swept by volcarona, shell smash cloyster, and various other set up sweepers. Its a necessity, if you don't have the sense to build a team with it in mind your inviting a sweep...

Ivanka
20th August 2011, 1:57 PM
It is an interesting tactic. I've tried it on Double Battles but it's not quite as effective. The triple strategy you mentioned with Terrakion, Weavile and Whimsicott definitely seems like a much better way of using the trick. I can also imagine this being banned in triple battles very soon. D=

craigprime
6th February 2012, 12:31 AM
I see this combo so much, I make sure one of my beginning pokemon knows Destiny Bond.
Usually I put Wobuffet in the middle for triple battles.

ParaChomp
6th February 2012, 2:13 AM
Finally, a move that seems to be a gimmick finally is! Be happy and live with it.

dildadonz
18th February 2012, 8:47 PM
Tail wind versions are the most problematic however I would never deem this strategy broken. It has its flaws as priority from the likes of Scizor will kill Terrakion. Latios outspeeds terrakion before boosting. Rage Powder amoongus and fake out can stop Terrakion before it attacks or set up. Pokemon which resist rock slide and can survive basically a 168.75 base power attack will fare decently if they have team mates to handle the other pokemon, this means most fighting types. Some have mach punch and some have bullet punch. I am looking at you Conkeldurr.

ShinyArceus91
14th May 2012, 11:01 AM
Warning: This team setup might be banned. I would highly suggest not making this team setup for competitive battling! You have been warned.
I've been running into these combo's left and right online. A team that utilizes Justified and Beat Up to insanely boosts the Pokemon's attack, making for a nearly unstoppable sweep.

For example, using Weavile to Beat Up Terrakion, then Terrakions Justified ability activates on each hit. Since Beat Up is a dark move and hits ~6 times, it will max Terrakions attack stat. The third Pokemon, sometimes Whimsicott, uses a defensive move like Tailwind, Wide Guard, Helping Hand or even Beat Up. Lastly, Terrakion uses Rock Slide and wipes the opponents team in one attack.

The best counter possible is Wide Guard or killing Terrakion before he attacks. If your Pokemon is fast enough and use Skill Swap on Terrakion is another possible counter (stealing Justified) but highly unlikely.

If you cannot stop rock slide and kill Terrakion, it's game over, simple as that.

This is insanely overpowered, nearly impossible to counter and ironically gives a bad message (Beat Up your allies, it's makes them stronger)

I've been running into these teams left and right and for good reason, their nearly unstoppable.

What are your thoughts on this? I want it banned.

Fortunately my team utilizes Wide Guard and Trick Room to deal with these teams. Their not a problem from me, however, any other team is royally screwed. Sadly, all of people I come across rages if Terrakion dies.

Side Note: Tauros and Frostbreath is a less popular combo, but it's just as bad having Frostbreath (always critical) activating Tauros Anger Point (maxes attack if hit by a critical) to max his attack, then Tauros uses Rock Slide to sweep the opposing team. But this is unfavorable.

Easy Counter. Conkeldurr MAX Attack. Mach Punch to Sneasel/Weavile. Done. Bound to KO.. However, if it is Whimsicott you are gone. :) But lucky for me it is always weavile, especially in Random match-up.