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zerky
28th April 2011, 7:55 PM
So as you may already know, it's quite possible, and perhaps even easier to RNG in Gen V. It only needs your DS' MAC address and no longer requires your secret ID (previously only legally determinable by catching a wild, non-chained shiny pokemon, figuring out its IVs and using some basic math) and standard non-C-gear RNGing only uses timing precise to the second.

With this in mind, RNGed pokemon might make an even bigger appearance in this generation than the last. What's your opinion on this? Does it devalue the worth of non-RNGed pokemon? Is it perfectly legit? a bad exploit? etcetera.

edit: I just added this FAQ, because people seem to be kinda confused by the whole dealio. Keep in mind that I'm not a programmer or an expert (or even any good!) at RNGing, so if there are any errors/things missing please point them out and I'll fix them ASAP.

FAQ

Q: What does RNG mean?
A: RNG stands for Random Number Generator. A random number generator (RNG) is something used to create "random" numbers to simulate chance and luck. A die or a deck of cards are both technically RNGs, and so is the bit of programming that determines the pokémon you encounter in-game. An extremely simplified way of thinking of it would be to imagine that every every time you encounter a new pokémon it's like you're rolling a die with millions of sides - each side representing all of the combined attributes (stats, shininess, gender, nature, ability, etcetera) that make up a single pokémon.

Q: Yeah, but what does this have to do with "RNGing" a pokemon?
A: No RNG is perfect, and the numbers generated are often pseudorandom instead of truly "random". Computers often use variables like the time/date, frame, or even fan noise to generate numbers. What this means is that if you know how an RNG works, then you can often figure out a way to make it favour a specific outcome in the same way that you can stack a deck of cards in your favour or drop a die so that it will always land on 6. To keep the analogy going, RNGing means that you can roll the million-sided pokémon die and throw the die in a way that lets you consistently get the side that has the shiny pokémon with perfect stats.

Q: Why do people RNG?
A: RNGing can make it much easier and faster to get a specific pokémon. Instead of hatching thousands of eggs to get a single shiny pokémon with a mostly random nature and IVs, someone who manipulates the RNG can hatch a shiny pokémon, or one with perfect IVs in just a few tries.

Q: Do you need to use a cheating device to RNG?
A: Yes and no. The purpose of RNGing is to allow a player to obtain a flawless, shiny, or otherwise, very specific pokémon without having a cheating device interact directly with their game. Depending on the method, using something like Action Replay while RNGing can even completely throw off the process and make you unable to get the result you want.

During RNGing, the calculations used to find the pokémon you want and determine how to get it on a specific game are very complicated and generally requires users to download programs to their computers that are specially designed to calculate these values. However, these programs will never interact with your game. Whether or not this is considered a cheating device is a controversial issue, but RNGing can technically be done without using any sort of program other than your game itself. Keep in mind that if you're planning on doing all the calculations yourself and without a program, you might want a degree in math first.

In Gen IV, calibrating was easier (in D/P/Pt) because of the pokétch. It was done via the coinflip and happiness checker applications. In Gen V there is no pokétch, so calibrating must be done by catching pokémon and checking their IVs.

Q: So how do I RNG?
A: An in-depth guide would be way more than you could fit in a single question, but there is a step-by-step process here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83057 . It can be pretty confusing and difficult at first, so it's recommended you start off with the standard non-C-gear method.

Q: What is a seed in the context of RNGing?
A: Before the game's RNG generates a random number, you must first provide it with another number so to use to calculate the final "random" number. This first number is called the "seed". The RNG in Black and White is very predictable, and will always spit out the same results when provided with the same seed.

In Gen V the seed is determined by things like the exact time you start up the game, whether or not you start up the C-gear, and also the delay between starting the game and starting your C-gear. By doing all these things at an exact time and following very specific instructions (walking a certain number of steps with a defined number of pokémon in your party, using chatot's chatter, etcetera), you can manipulate the outcome of the game's "dice rolls" and get almost any custom pokémon that you want.

Q: Almost? Which pokémon can't I get then?
A: Although you can have any combination of natures and IVs in this generation, certain pokémon are unable to be generated shiny in your game, even if you hit the seed and frame that would ensure a shiny pokémon. When encountered, these pokémon have will have "checks" on them that will make sure that they will never appear as shiny. The zekrom and reshiram encountered at the end of the game's storyline and at Dragonspiral Tower cannot be encountered as shiny, and neither can Liberty Garden victini. Pokémon from wondercard gifts can also never be shiny, unless the promotion was specifically for a shiny version of that pokémon, in which case you will not be able to get a regular version of that pokémon instead. Finally, pokémon straight from the Dream World in the Entralink Forest are unobtainable as shinies either.

Sizerdrix
29th April 2011, 2:23 AM
As more and more people strive to get perfect pokemon to keep up with each other, RNGing will become more popular.

the_green_thunder
29th April 2011, 4:00 PM
I'm sorry, what does RNG mean?

Whitelightning
29th April 2011, 4:10 PM
I'm sorry, what does RNG mean?
same here.

kazzar
29th April 2011, 4:52 PM
I'm sorry, what does RNG mean?


same here.

it mean Random Number Generator. I don't know a whole lot about it myself

Will-powered Spriter
29th April 2011, 5:48 PM
I'm sorry, what does RNG mean?

RNGing is knowing how the game calculates "random" values, and how to manipulate it. It's popular competitively, as it allows you to have perfect pokemon with out having to resort to hacking or using a battle simulator.

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
29th April 2011, 5:54 PM
Yes, with it's ease of use, it will continue to become more prominent this generation. It's so much more rewarding just finding a spread in a minute orso and going out to capture that flawless Pokemon with no hassle whatsoever.

RNG shall forever be a perfectly legitimate practice and the only players who disagree with it are likely those who slave for months at a time hatching thousands of eggs (I'm not making this up, I've known people who have done this) to get one shiny which likely has cruddy IVs and nature.

I'm using no external devices or glitches to alter the Pokemon in any shape of form. The end.

Marvs
29th April 2011, 6:01 PM
I tried to RNG yesterday on my pokemon black, but I was just lost. Got my mac address but the guide just wasn't clear enough on what I should be doing!

I have no problem with people who RNG, hell it's not the easiest thing to learn initially so you earn the right to use it!

Endoplasmic Reticulum
29th April 2011, 6:23 PM
RNGing is knowing how the game calculates "random" values, and how to manipulate it. It's popular competitively, as it allows you to have perfect pokemon with out having to resort to hacking or using a battle simulator.

Oh I see. When I read this I was confused as to how you can "random number generator", but now I see what it means. Thanks

The Eleventh
29th April 2011, 8:12 PM
I didn't know RNGing is much easier in Gen V, I must read up on it. I have no problems with RNGing, as it's perfectly legit, as long as no cheating devices are used (only a problem in Gen IV to find your SID, it seems). Although I don't like to use it to obtain shinies, as I feel it removes all aspect of a challenge.

Toge Tamer
29th April 2011, 8:24 PM
I'd RNG on Pokemon Black, but I only have a 3Ds, so I'll have to wait until they figure out how to get it to work with a 3Ds. *Sadface*

Will-powered Spriter
29th April 2011, 8:55 PM
I've always wanted to try this, but I can't find a single tutorial for Gen V that makes sense. It's all jargon and charts. Is there not a beginners guide for Gen V anywhere?

kazzar
29th April 2011, 9:07 PM
I've always wanted to try this, but I can't find a single tutorial for Gen V that makes sense. It's all jargon and charts. Is there not a beginners guide for Gen V anywhere?

Here is the Smogon Page on it:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83057

zerky
29th April 2011, 10:05 PM
Mebby I should add a little FAQ up on the first post so people don't keep getting confused about it. I'll do that right now.

Swagmander
30th April 2011, 8:15 AM
Alright, so we got the FAQ, but how do we do it? Might you have the program that helps to RNG?

Vendidurt
30th April 2011, 8:28 AM
so.... how do you influence the RNG? im only getting basic info here.

i may be a noob on the site, but ive been playing pokemon since red. PM me for a non-uber battle sometime.

SkittyOnWailord
30th April 2011, 8:31 AM
I figured that this thread could use an example of how easy and fast RNG can be in 5th gen after you've done all of the calculations. So here's a video of me finding a shiny Timid Cobalion with 31/x/27/31/25/31 in under 3 minutes. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e3GCg15DQQ

lucarioisawesome
30th April 2011, 8:34 AM
how do we rng.im exited.do u have to have anything?

SkittyOnWailord
30th April 2011, 8:36 AM
how do we rng.im exited.do u have to have anything?

All the info you need can be found here.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83057

Rakurai
30th April 2011, 8:48 AM
Never have RNGed, never will.

It just isn't gratifying to me get a shiny or Pokemon with good IVs when I know I'm going to get it.

sentimentGX4
30th April 2011, 9:01 AM
I disagree that RNG has become easier gen V. If anything, it has become significantly more difficult. The Pokegear was a major loss and now we have to resort to walking in the grass and Chatots.

Catching perfect Shiny Pokemon may become easier but hatching a perfect shiny pokemon will become more difficult. I will really miss hatching shiny eggs in Gen IV because the process was so easy and you were guaranteed a shiny egg. -.-


Never have RNGed, never will.

It just isn't gratifying to me get a shiny or Pokemon with good IVs when I know I'm going to get it.You don't know you're going to get a Shiny Pokemon. RNG Manipulation just means that instead of soft-resetting several thousand times, you soft reset 50 times instead. The entire process is still fatiguing and a nightmare.

SkittyOnWailord
30th April 2011, 9:17 AM
You don't know you're going to get a Shiny Pokemon. RNG Manipulation just means that instead of soft-resetting several thousand times, you soft reset 50 times instead. The entire process is still fatiguing and a nightmare.

While I somewhat agree with that, depending on how much you've practiced RNG you can do it with very few attempts. Like how in HG/SS I got a shiny Timid Zapdos with HP Ice and a few 31's on my first SR. And a shiny Bold Suicune with 4 31's on my 7th SR. And in 5th gen it's even easier. In 5th gen it hasn't taken me more than 3 tries to get each one that I've tried for. So with practice you can end up doing it with hardly any tries at all.

lucarioisawesome
30th April 2011, 9:44 AM
tried it and it was to hard and confusing

zerky
30th April 2011, 9:45 AM
I disagree that RNG has become easier gen V. If anything, it has become significantly more difficult. The Pokegear was a major loss and now we have to resort to walking in the grass and Chatots.


I guess it varies from person to person. Personally I would have never been able to properly RNG in a Gen IV game because my luck finding RE shinies is absolutely nonexistent. I've never even seen a RE shiny in an official game, let alone caught one, so I would have had to use other dubious methods to obtain my SID, which completely defeats the purpose of RNGing in the first place.

Until now it's just been a really cool, if impractical, option.

sentimentGX4
30th April 2011, 9:47 AM
I guess it varies from person to person. Personally I would have never been able to properly RNG in a Gen IV game because my luck finding RE shinies is absolutely nonexistent. I never even seen a RE shiny in an official game, let alone caught one, so I would have had to use other dubious methods to obtain my SID, which completely defeats the purpose of RNGing in the first place.

Until now it's just been a really cool, if impractical, option.Okay, I should phrase it this way. It gets easier to setup but the process of actually RNG'ing gets more difficult (at least to me). You lose a lot of valuable tools from last gen. -.-

zerky
30th April 2011, 10:06 AM
Well, I haven't been able to even find my initial seed yet, so you're probably right.

Then again, it's likely a sign of my own ineptitude more than anything. XD

threexl
30th April 2011, 10:44 AM
i would liek to try to rng in white but one thing is confusing me what do they mean by seed ?

sentimentGX4
30th April 2011, 12:04 PM
i would liek to try to rng in white but one thing is confusing me what do they mean by seed ?I don't have a firm grasp of what a "seed" is either; but from what I'm getting, it's a random number that is one component of determining a "random" event.

xmip
30th April 2011, 12:29 PM
RNG for pokemon your gonna use competitively? obviouly, grinding 6+ competitive pokemon is just impossible for 99.9% of people out there
RNG for shinies? nah, no fun

Nymphaea
30th April 2011, 4:57 PM
i would liek to try to rng in white but one thing is confusing me what do they mean by seed ?


I don't have a firm grasp of what a "seed" is either; but from what I'm getting, it's a random number that is one component of determining a "random" event.

Basically, the way random number generators work is that you take a big complex algorithm/equation, and put a number into it. Every single number you put in will almost always give you a completely different number. The number you put in is the seed. Usually, the seed is time, especially on computers, but whenever there is a chance you could get more than one random number a second, they have to have a variation like the Pokemon games do. That's why there is so many things that change the seed, usually every random event will change it to prevent getting the same value twice in a row.

Nakashima
30th April 2011, 5:07 PM
RNG for pokemon your gonna use competitively? obviouly, grinding 6+ competitive pokemon is just impossible for 99.9% of people out there
RNG for shinies? nah, no fun

Thanks for stating my opinion for me =P
I'd love to be able to RNG for IV's, as for shiny hunting, it's more rewarding to actually hunt them.

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
30th April 2011, 5:37 PM
Shiny hunting died with the Masuda Method and chaining. Some of you need to get over it already as there's really nothing special about getting one anymore.

Actually, they've never been special to me at all. If I like an alternate coloration, I'll just RNG for it while keeping it's competitive capabilities intact. Rather than hatch eggs like a mindless drone all day for cruddy IVs and Nature - that must be fun.

Poke_Cannon
30th April 2011, 5:41 PM
i hope to finally figure out how to RNG, it seems fun, and who wouldn't want a cool pokemon with great stats and moves.

ugh.. i will continue to read and pray i can figure it out.

nahcmo
30th April 2011, 6:40 PM
Shiny hunting died with the Matsuda Method and chaining. Some of you need to get over it already as there's really nothing special about getting one anymore.

Actually, they've never been special to me at all. If I like an alternate coloration, I'll just RNG for it while keeping it's competitive capabilities intact. Rather than hatch eggs like a mindless drone all day for cruddy IVs and Nature - that must be fun.

^ This so much. Exactly what I was thinking.

It's like you have these tools/methods you can use to make the process faster (and end up with a better result) but you elect not to and instead, spend hours and hours breeding/hunting. That's not an issue for me as it's their own choice (i.e. they find it more gratifying, don't have the means to do it, etc, etc).

However, what IS an issue for me is when they don't keep it to themselves. By that I mean they accuse players who do RNG that they didn't "work as hard" as them to get their shinies because they didn't spend a mindless number of hours getting it. Of course, not all "shiny hunters" are like that but quite a few are.

Anyways, haven't tried RNG'ing in 5th Gen yet, but I'll definitely have a look at it when I have more time.

Mario with Lasers
30th April 2011, 6:44 PM
It took me two weeks and a half, but I got my 31/18/30/31/31/31 Timid pink Virizion this week. It's really, really retarded trying to get good IVs and shinyness this generation compared to DPPt or even to HGSS, but at least we don't have any delay to worry with anymore, so it's mostly a matter of knowing the PIDs you want to hit shiny before you even begin the game so you can RNG your ID/SID for them, but then again... You can guess how boring that is.

Sizerdrix
30th April 2011, 7:16 PM
Whereas RNGing for wild and stationary pokemon is fine in 5th gen, getting a bred one (especially with the right DW ability) is far more annoying due to the amount of NPCs that are moving around.

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
30th April 2011, 7:21 PM
I'm actually having that very issue apparently. But I've only managed to successfully RNG breed 3 Pokemon so far (points to signature) and a parent with flawless IVs necessary to pass down Sucker Punch. I'm going to work on a Drought Ninetales next on my new save file, though.

Edited.

Ixin
30th April 2011, 7:54 PM
OK so I found my seed and I did the seed to time thing and I got
Date: 2011 01 01
Time: 01:00:02
Delay: 605

What does this mean?
And how do I actually get this pokemon?
Sorry I'm totally new to RNGing.

zerky
30th April 2011, 9:56 PM
Um... I'm really bad at RNGing, so I'm probably wrong somewhere.

It sounds like you're using the C-gear method which uses delays. The delay is how long you have to wait until you turn on your C-gear and if you're using this method then you also have to download a second program that will calculate how long you have to wait.

You have to catch a pokémon, calculate its IVs and then put it in to the program to determine how much you were "off" and then you restart and repeat the process a few times to calibrate how you should set your timer from now on.

Then... I'm not sure. I haven't been able to progress past this step with the C-gear method.

sentimentGX4
1st May 2011, 1:50 AM
Whereas RNGing for wild and stationary pokemon is fine in 5th gen, getting a bred one (especially with the right DW ability) is far more annoying due to the amount of NPCs that are moving around.Bred Pokemon are the only Pokemon that really matter to competitive players, aside from the few non-uber legendaries that are good in OU. This gen, all we have is Thundurus (and Thundurus is NOT stationary).

RNG'ing as a whole, therefore, became a lot more difficult. -.-

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
1st May 2011, 2:34 AM
Bred Pokemon are the only Pokemon that really matter to competitive players, aside from the few non-uber legendaries that are good in OU. This gen, all we have is Thundurus (and Thundurus is NOT stationary).

RNG'ing as a whole, therefore, became a lot more difficult. -.-


Well, I'm able to name quite a few Pokemon in Unova who could do without egg moves entirely, if that's what you're insinuating.

I mostly do captures anyway. But if it requires egg moves, I could always breed them later. I will however disagree with you entirely on that last sentence, though. Unless you want to try and prove me wrong or something.

Beck
1st May 2011, 4:36 AM
The process seems relatively simple, and a lot less time consuming than actually breeding for a Pokemon with decent IVs, let alone flawless IVs. As soon as I find time to really sit down and focus on any errors I may be making I'll give it a try.

DarumakkaImposter
1st May 2011, 7:06 AM
what is all this download stuff?

Sizerdrix
1st May 2011, 2:50 PM
Um... I'm really bad at RNGing, so I'm probably wrong somewhere.

It sounds like you're using the C-gear method which uses delays. The delay is how long you have to wait until you turn on your C-gear and if you're using this method then you also have to download a second program that will calculate how long you have to wait.

You have to catch a pokémon, calculate its IVs and then put it in to the program to determine how much you were "off" and then you restart and repeat the process a few times to calibrate how you should set your timer from now on.

Then... I'm not sure. I haven't been able to progress past this step with the C-gear method.

You want something like Eon Timer which will sort out the delays for you.

sentimentGX4
1st May 2011, 6:11 PM
I mostly do captures anyway. But if it requires egg moves, I could always breed them later. I will however disagree with you entirely on that last sentence, though. Unless you want to try and prove me wrong or something.You ignore the fact that there are many powerful Pokemon that are rare and a huge bulk of OU pokemon are still based on pre-Gen V pokemon that may not be attained in the wild. Then there's breeding DW Pokemon. (No, not the common ones you find yourself but the rare event ones you attain through trading.) -.-

dukedudez
1st May 2011, 8:21 PM
I'm super confused with RNGreporter. I watched the video, saved beside a patch of grass, put in the time and changed the ds clock, then I started the game with the time and used sweet scent to catch the pokemon. Then I entered all the data in the paremeter and found a seed. Then I clicked "Use Result in Time Finder" and after that I'm totally confused. The guy in the video was using a stationary legendary, but how can I catch a wild pokemon with the stats I want and that is shiny? Also, what are frames and how do they work? Thanks

dukedudez
1st May 2011, 11:03 PM
Well I just RNGed my first pokemon. It's a close to flawless dratini at level 55. I'm still confused about what frames are and how to choose ability, nature, and whether it's shiny. Any help?

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
2nd May 2011, 12:48 AM
You ignore the fact that there are many powerful Pokemon that are rare and a huge bulk of OU pokemon are still based on pre-Gen V pokemon that may not be attained in the wild. Then there's breeding DW Pokemon. (No, not the common ones you find yourself but the rare event ones you attain through trading.) -.-

...Which has absolutely nothing to do with:

RNG'ing as a whole, therefore, became a lot more difficult. -.-

If you can't RNG for those "pre-Gen V" Pokemon in past generations, then who's problem is that? My point is 5th generation is the easiest and many of those Pokemon can just be transfered and RNG bred on B/W instead. That's the main point of this thread.

Lastly, breeding DW Pokemon based on the "rare events" solely depends on whether or not it's female.

pokefantravis
2nd May 2011, 1:11 AM
Hmm, this sounds a whole lot easier than genIV RNG, I should try it, and get a flawless shiny Klink or something.

alliebeth88
2nd May 2011, 4:01 AM
Wow, I just spent forever trying to learn how to RNG. I think I get it, I'm just really bad at my timing :(

Maybe I'll try it again next weekend when I have more time to spend calibrating.

I think I'll stick to MMing for most of my pokemon shinies, though, since a lot of them aren't really common in the wild.

Serebii!
2nd May 2011, 4:38 AM
Once I beat the Elite 4, I may try it

iBlade
2nd May 2011, 7:01 AM
Hello zerky,

Your post is well written and well intended. However I wish to call you out on one of your points, which is an untruth.


Q: Do you need to use a cheating device to RNG?
A:
Short answer: No.
Long answer: The purpose of RNGing is to allow a player to obtain a flawless, shiny, or otherwise, very specific pokémon without the use of cheating devices. Depending on the method, using a cheating device while RNGing can even completely throw off the process and make you unable to get the result you want. Keep in mind, though, that the calculations used to find the pokémon you want and determine how to get it on a specific game are very complicated and generally requires users to download programs to their computers that are specifically designed to calculate these values. However, these programs will never interact with your game.The parts called into question are underlined. You claim this does not require a cheating device, yet a program which allows you to obtain very specific pokemon is both a device and is used to cheat.

From dictionary.com

1st definition of device: a thing made for a particular purpose; an invention or contrivance, especially a mechanical or electrical one.

5th definition of cheat: to violate rules or regulations: He cheats at cards.

From the official Pokemon tournament regulations

The use of external devices to alter the Pokémon in a player's party is expressly forbidden. Random checks will be performed throughout the tournament to determine whether or not an external device has been used to modify a player's party. Players found to have Pokémon that have been tampered with will be disqualified from the event, regardless of whether the player tampered with his or her game or received a Pokémon or item that was tampered with by someone other than the player. It is the player's responsibility to have legal Pokémon. Event officials have the final determination regarding the legality of a Pokémon.

also

As a player you are advised to use only Pokémon that you have raised yourself and items that you have received through normal game play.

Therefore, we can only come to the conclusion that using this RNG device is cheating.


Yes, with it's ease of use, it will continue to become more prominent this generation. It's so much more rewarding just finding a spread in a minute orso and going out to capture that flawless Pokemon with no hassle whatsoever.

RNG shall forever be a perfectly legitimate practice and the only players who disagree with it are likely those who slave for months at a time hatching thousands of eggs (I'm not making this up, I've known people who have done this) to get one shiny which likely has cruddy IVs and nature.

I'm using no external devices or glitches to alter the Pokemon in any shape of form. The end.RNG is not legitimate. That is 100% false. Perhaps you need to redefine your terms.

From dictionary.com

The second definition of legitimate: in accordance with established rules, principles, or standards.

I've listed the established rules above in my response to the original poster.


I have no problem with people who RNG, hell it's not the easiest thing to learn initially so you earn the right to use it!This is a wack sense of entitlement you have there. Is it the easiest thing to learn how to rob fort knox? Since the answer is no, you then have the right to do so? Bad logic is bad.


I have no problems with RNGing, as it's perfectly legit, as long as no cheating devices are used (only a problem in Gen IV to find your SID, it seems)The RNG program is a cheating device.


Never have RNGed, never will.

It just isn't gratifying to me get a shiny or Pokemon with good IVs when I know I'm going to get it.Rakurai, I salute your integrity. The question I have for you is, if you do play competitively, why do you play competitively when all these other unethical players are cheating and have a significant advantage?


RNG for pokemon your gonna use competitively? obviouly, grinding 6+ competitive pokemon is just impossible for 99.9% of people out there
RNG for shinies? nah, no funIf no one cheated then you would perhaps feel less of a need to keep up with the cheaters. People do not need to grind for these uber stat pokemon when other people aren't cheating to get them.

----

Here's my take. Game Freak will not spend the money to prevent this. Their goal is to make money, not a perfect competitive environment. Without exorbitant financial cost, the company is unable to stop you from doing this. I believe they would if they could. All they can do is tell you that it is against the rules. This punishes those with integrity and sends a message to players: cheat or lose. That's competitive pokemon in a nutshell. If it was meant for players to have these RNG'd mons, Game Freak could put a way to achieve them easily in-game, or much more likely, to sell a way to do it. Selling a whole new pokemod chip would make them tons of money, yet they chose not to do it. I bet they've thought about it. Conclusion: it would be bad for the game to permit it.

I hope you enjoy the read. Flame away.

DBK
2nd May 2011, 7:55 AM
1) You claim this does not require a cheating device, yet a program which allows you to obtain very specific pokemon is both a device and is used to cheat.

From dictionary.com

1st definition of device: a thing made for a particular purpose; an invention or contrivance, especially a mechanical or electrical one.

5th definition of cheat: to violate rules or regulations: He cheats at cards.

From the official Pokemon tournament regulations

The use of external devices to alter the Pokémon in a player's party is expressly forbidden. Random checks will be performed throughout the tournament to determine whether or not an external device has been used to modify a player's party. Players found to have Pokémon that have been tampered with will be disqualified from the event, regardless of whether the player tampered with his or her game or received a Pokémon or item that was tampered with by someone other than the player. It is the player's responsibility to have legal Pokémon. Event officials have the final determination regarding the legality of a Pokémon.

2) As a player you are advised to use only Pokémon that you have raised yourself and items that you have received through normal game play.

Therefore, we can only come to the conclusion that using this RNG device is cheating.

3) RNG is not legitimate. That is 100% false. Perhaps you need to redefine your terms.

From dictionary.com

The second definition of legitimate: in accordance with established rules, principles, or standards.

I've listed the established rules above in my response to the original poster.

4) The RNG program is a cheating device.

5) Rakurai, I salute your integrity. The question I have for you is, if you do play competitively, why do you play competitively when all these other unethical players are cheating and have a significant advantage?

If no one cheated then you would perhaps feel less of a need to keep up with the cheaters. People do not need to grind for these uber stat pokemon when other people aren't cheating to get them.

----

6) Here's my take. Game Freak will not spend the money to prevent this. Their goal is to make money, not a perfect competitive environment. Without exorbitant financial cost, the company is unable to stop you from doing this. I believe they would if they could. All they can do is tell you that it is against the rules. This punishes those with integrity and sends a message to players: cheat or lose. That's competitive pokemon in a nutshell. If it was meant for players to have these RNG'd mons, Game Freak could put a way to achieve them easily in-game, or much more likely, to sell a way to do it. Selling a whole new pokemod chip would make them tons of money, yet they chose not to do it. I bet they've thought about it. Conclusion: it would be bad for the game to permit it.

I hope you enjoy the read. Flame away.

1) The RNG program is not a cheating device. It is nothing more than a complex calculator. It is neither electrical nor mechanical, nor does it affect the games coding in any way, therefore it does not violate any rules or regulations. An "external device" to them is something like PokeSav, PokeGen, AR, or Gameshark. Since you're not modifying anything or tampering with the game, no cheating has been done.

2) Since you do raise the pokemon yourself, and you do get the items from normal gameplay, no cheating has been done, therefore the RNG program is not cheating.

3) Seeing as all you do is predict when the pokemon you want will appear, it is very much legit.

4) Again, no it is not.

5) There is no advantage gained when RNGing. You're only leveling the playing field and making the battle more even. RNGers don't always win.

Plus, it's the one's that grind that win more often, anyways. People RNG to keep up with the grinders.

6) This last part tells me that you really don't know what RNGing really is. The RNG is a mechanic built into the game that the game uses to generate the pokemon you encounter. All the RNGers do input some data into the program to predict when the pokemon they want will appear and perform specific actions in game to reach that pokemon. Since the games code is not altered nor the game tampered with, it is not cheating, simply a more efficient way to grind.

I appreciate your stance on cheating, but this is taking it a bit too far.

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
2nd May 2011, 8:03 AM
From dictionary.com

1st definition of device: a thing made for a particular purpose; an invention or contrivance, especially a mechanical or electrical one.

5th definition of cheat: to violate rules or regulations: He cheats at cards.

...


thing made for a particular purpose; an invention or contrivance, especially a mechanical or electrical one.

RNG Reporter is a PC program - defined as a sequence of instructions, stored in any medium, that can be interpreted and executed by a computer. There is no established connection whatsoever between said program and video game system. Nothing is being done to alter the Pokemon's stats or data in any shape or form by said "device". The program is used to calibrate your game by determining the amount of time it takes in seconds to reach into the virtual world after a hard reset and using said data to find your spreads. Yes, the program itself has a purpose, but as far as I'm concerned, going out of the way to spout such nonsense as calling it cheating device is pure rubbish.

If a calculator is your interpretation of a "cheating device", please do away with it.



The use of external devices to alter the Pokémon in a player's party is expressly forbidden. Random checks will be performed throughout the tournament to determine whether or not an external device has been used to modify a player's party. Players found to have Pokémon that have been tampered with will be disqualified from the event, regardless of whether the player tampered with his or her game or received a Pokémon or item that was tampered with by someone other than the player. It is the player's responsibility to have legal Pokémon. Event officials have the final determination regarding the legality of a Pokémon.

And again, the problem with that is:
RNG Reporter does not alter. It's more or less a calculator to determine when the IVs of a Pokemon are generated. Present valid evidence that is modifies anything on my perfectly untouched or tampered with White cart, and I'll hear you out. Otherwise your argument shall remain invalid.


As a player you are advised to use only Pokémon that you have raised yourself and items that you have received through normal game play.

And with that, the items in-game required for RNG are...?

See, If you refuse to understand what is being said, we shall shorten it into simple English - RNG Reporter calculates when (time/date/month/hours/minutes/seconds) a Pokemon's stats and values will be produced in the game. It does not create. It does not modify.

I'm really becoming tired of everyone who calls glorified stopwatch and resetting "cheating".

But truth be told, I've yet to have seen any players in the finals of official tournaments use many reset/bred Pokemon in battles at the VGCs. In fact, I've even seen (admittedly) Pokesav'd teams make it in perfectly without even being disqualified. Now let's see how many RNG teams "break the rules" this year. Or, better yet, be declared "cheating" by officials.

iBlade
2nd May 2011, 9:14 AM
Haha yeah, I predicted this flamming since no one who wasn't cheating would likely be reading a post on how to do it.

Looks like I bruised some egos. Truth stings sometimes, doesn't it?


1) The RNG program is not a cheating device. It is nothing more than a complex calculator. It is neither electrical nor mechanical, nor does it affect the games coding in any way, therefore it does not violate any rules or regulations. An "external device" to them is something like PokeSav, PokeGen, AR, or Gameshark. Since you're not modifying anything or tampering with the game, no cheating has been done.
A complex calculater used to modify what the odds are on getting a specific pokemon is indeed a cheating device. If you don't like the dictionary definitions, take it up with them. I've tried to be fair in defining terms. I've listed the source for you.

2) Since you do raise the pokemon yourself, and you do get the items from normal gameplay, no cheating has been done, therefore the RNG program is not cheating.
False. You are not getting those pokemon from normal gameplay. Check dictionary.com for definition of normal please. I think the word normal is key to the discussion.

3) Seeing as all you do is predict when the pokemon you want will appear, it is very much legit.
That is illigit, not legit. It does not fall in accordance with established rules, principles, or standards

4) Again, no it is not.
You have no reference here. Not sure what you're referring to.

5) There is no advantage gained when RNGing. You're only leveling the playing field and making the battle more even. RNGers don't always win.

Plus, it's the one's that grind that win more often, anyways. People RNG to keep up with the grinders.

Sorry but no advantage gained? I don't know how to say this respectfully, but its laughable and shows where your motives are. That sounds bad I know. My poor phrasing abilities but what I mean is I think you have a great sense of entitlement because of the difficulty of self-breeding and catching. I'd like people to take a good hard look at what this guy is saying. This sense of entitlement is what draws people in to cheat.

6) This last part tells me that you really don't know what RNGing really is. The RNG is a mechanic built into the game that the game uses to generate the pokemon you encounter. All the RNGers do input some data into the program to predict when the pokemon they want will appear and perform specific actions in game to reach that pokemon. Since the games code is not altered nor the game tampered with, it is not cheating, simply a more efficient way to grind.

Inaccurate. To claim I don't know what RNGing is, is a strawman. That arguement is frail as it was easily researched. Claiming that just because you are using the mechanics of the game to cheat, makes it not cheating can't hold water. The only people satisfied with your requirement of cheating to have to altar the game code are people looking to justify their actions. The excuse is paper thin.


I appreciate your stance on cheating, but this is taking it a bit too far.
Thank you for respecting my stance. I've backed up all my assertions with evidence, not emotion. For you to claim that I'm taking it too far I think the same needs to be done on your side.

Quite honestly I don't expect to change anyones opinions here. Every has to live with themselves. Let's make a deal. Before any of you respond, talk to someone who's integrity you greatly respect. Father, grandfather, religious leader; anyone whom you respect. Ask them if they feel its shady and see what they say.



...



RNG Reporter is a PC program - defined as a sequence of instructions, stored in any medium, that can be interpreted and executed by a computer. There is no established connection whatsoever between said program and video game system. Nothing is being done to alter the Pokemon's stats or data in any shape or form by said "device". The program is used to calibrate your game by determining the amount of time it takes in seconds to reach into the virtual world after a hard reset and using said data to find your spreads. Yes, the program itself has a purpose, but as far as I'm concerned, going out of the way to spout such nonsense as calling it cheating device is pure rubbish.

If a calculator is your interpretation of a "cheating device", please do away with it.

A calculator used to cheat is a cheating device. You spew the same old tired excuse that becaue you arent altering the pokemons data, it isn't cheating. That is not a requirement of cheating. Don't be confused people. Feel free to call it rubbish. We all choose who we become.

And again, the problem with that is:
RNG Reporter does not alter. It's more or less a calculator to determine when the IVs of a Pokemon are generated. Present valid evidence that is modifies anything on my perfectly untouched or tampered with White cart, and I'll hear you out. Otherwise your argument shall remain invalid.
And again, altering the game is not a requirement of something to be used as a cheating device. Never has been a requirement and never will be. Stop using that as a cruch. It's your arguement and fictional defense which is invalid.


And with that, the items in-game required for RNG are...?

See, If you refuse to understand what is being said, we shall shorten it into simple English - RNG Reporter calculates when (time/date/month/hours/minutes/seconds) a Pokemon's stats and values will be produced in the game. It does not create. It does not modify.

I'm really becoming tired of everyone who calls glorified stopwatch and resetting "cheating".

But truth be told, I've yet to have seen any players in the finals of official tournaments use many reset/bred Pokemon in battles at the VGCs. In fact, I've even seen (admittedly) Pokesav'd teams make it in perfectly without even being disqualified. Now let's see how many RNG teams "break the rules" this year. Or, better yet, be declared "cheating" by officials.
Have you ever heard any official say that RNGd mons are permitted in their official, sanctioned Pokemon event? Ever? Ever ever? Ever ever ever? Come on man, don't buy into your own excuses. Also, I clearly said that Game Freak doesn't have the capability, or won't purchase the technology, to stop people from cheating. All they can do is say it is against the rules. I dare you to tell them you're team is RNG'd at the next big event though :)

To repeat myself, I don't expect to change anyone's opinions here. Everyone has to live with themselves, making their own choices in life. Let's make a deal. Before any of you respond, talk to someone who's integrity you greatly respect. Father, grandfather, religious leader; anyone whom you respect. Ask them if they feel it's shady and see what they say.

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
2nd May 2011, 9:45 AM
A complex calculater used to modify what the odds are on getting a specific pokemon is indeed a cheating device. If you don't like the dictionary definitions, take it up with them. I've tried to be fair in defining terms. I've listed the source for you.

Okay, what odds are being "modified"? Again, you're constantly spitting out assumptions and can't prove any of it.

Modified 1. To change in form or character; alter -- RNG reporter doesn't do this.
2. To make less extreme, severe, or strong



That is illigit, not legit. It does not fall in accordance with established rules, principles, or standards

Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that calculating when a Pokemon were to appear with specific stats was illegitimate. /clearlybeingsarcastic.


Sorry but no advantage gained? I don't know how to say this respectfully, but its laughable and shows where your motives are. That sounds bad I know. My poor phrasing abilities but what I mean is I think you have a great sense of entitlement because of the difficulty of self-breeding and catching. I'd like people to take a good hard look at what this guy is saying. This sense of entitlement is what draws people in to cheat.

The advantage gained is almost minimal. I've seen players (mainly on Smogon) who can do without RNG and are able to breed Pokemon with stats almost exactly like the Pokemon in my signature (barring the stats that don't matter). The only advantage here is reducing unnecessary hours hatching eggs or soft-resetting. If you want to breed/sr the "fair" way, if that's what you call it - be my guest. Nobody is stopping you. I'm telling you that RNG isn't "cheating" and you've yet to have proven why it is.


Inaccurate. To claim I don't know what RNGing is, is a strawman. That arguement is frail as it was easily researched. Claiming that just because you are using the mechanics of the game to cheat, makes it not cheating can't hold water.

If you knew what it was, you would actually have a clue what you're talking about in the first few quotes. Seems that isn't the case. And this is where I'm not taking you seriously anymore. Using game mechanics is suddenly "cheating"? Wait, so chaining for shinies, Matsuda Method, Power item/Everstone inheritance and the slew of modifiers that determine what happens is also cheating? RNG, and the aforementioned are all game mechanics put there, whether you like it or not. You're in a serious distortion field if you think that it wasn't intentional. Every single video game has a Random Number Generator of sorts, how it can be manipulated is solely up to how the developers designed it, and how the players figure out how to manipulate these numbers to predict events that occur.


The only people satisfied with your requirement of cheating to have to altar the game code are people looking to justify their actions. The excuse is paper thin.

For the umpteenth time, no game code is being manipulated whatsoever. Either you're unable to read basic English or you're trolling - somehow, quite a few signs are pointing to the latter. Disregard that.


Thank you for respecting my stance. I've backed up all my assertions with evidence, not emotion. For you to claim that I'm taking it too far I think the same needs to be done on your side.

You mean the evidence that you have yet to have presented to the table? I've asked a few questions which you haven't answered.


And with that, the items in-game required for RNG are...?

It's still waiting.


A calculator used to cheat is a cheating device. You spew the same old tired excuse that becaue you arent altering the pokemons data, it isn't cheating. That is not a requirement of cheating. Don't be confused people. Feel free to call it rubbish. We all choose who we become.

Do please give me the requirements for it to be cheating. The above quote is completely lost in noise, otherwise.


And again, altering the game is not a requirement of something to be used as a cheating device. Never has been a requirement and never will be. Stop using that as a cruch. It's your arguement and fictional defense which is invalid.

Refer to the above. My argument and defense is entirely valid and you're using assertions that have yet to have proven correct. None of my points have been refuted with supporting evidence --just complete chatter on your end.


Have you ever heard any official say that RNGd mons are permitted in their official, sanctioned Pokemon event? Ever? Ever ever? Ever ever ever? Come on man, don't buy into your own excuses. Also, I clearly said that Game Freak doesn't have the capability, or won't purchase the technology, to stop people from cheating. All they can do is say it is against the rules.

I wonder where I've insinuated this. I can't seem to find it anywhere. Again with the baseless assumptions and lack of evidence, you just don't seem to learn. If developers didn't have the capability then certain Pokemon games in the past wouldn't have been impossible to RNG without actually having to use a cheating device. (See: Emerald/FR/LG/Colosseum/XD) The latter games being literally impossible to manipulate without an emulator. Seems they're very capable of stopping it, thank you very much. You've pretty much proven that you sir, don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about. Quote the source where Game Freak and their developers have stated specifically that Random Number Generating is an illegal in-game activity. I don't want any dodgy quotes or half-answers like the ones you've presented either.


I dare you to tell them you're team is RNG'd at the next big event though

Sure thing by the way, I'll actually mention it just for you if I ever decide to participate in any upcoming tournaments.

DBK
2nd May 2011, 10:08 AM
1) Haha yeah, I predicted this flamming since no one who wasn't cheating would likely be reading a post on how to do it.

2) Looks like I bruised some egos. Truth stings sometimes, doesn't it?

3) To repeat myself, I don't expect to change anyone's opinions here. Everyone has to live with themselves, making their own choices in life. Let's make a deal. Before any of you respond, talk to someone who's integrity you greatly respect. Father, grandfather, religious leader; anyone whom you respect. Ask them if they feel it's shady and see what they say.

1) It's not flamming. We're simply providing our thoughts on the topic. Plus most people are probably asleep right now.

2) No need for the attitude.

3) Irrelevant to this discussion.

Now that that is out of the way.....

Nothing is being modified. You are simply predicting, nothing more. Therefore it doesn't fall under the definition you provided.

You are getting them from normal gameplay, you just have advanced knowledge of when they will appear. You've done nothing to improve your odds or to speed up the process.

Since you are playing the game and acquiring the pokemon as you normally would, it does fall in accordance to the established rules/standards. Thus legit.

Check your quoted response. I number each argument and respond to them.

Entitlement? Where did that come from? I don't even RNG. I just understand how it works. There is no advantage other than to guarantee the pokemon you want. The end result is the same whether you RNG or grind. In actuality, those that grind tend to have more skill in battle than those that RNG. There is really no advantage battle-wise. Again, no need for the attitude.

Since all you are doing is utilizing a game mechanic (which you do anyway when you breed and train) it is not cheating. By your definition and logic, the Masuda Method is also cheating.

And it's not my requirement, it's Game Freak/Pokemon's. Speaking to officials about this the last two years at the VGCs, I learned that when they mention "external devices" in the rules/regulations, they are referring to devices that alter the games code or tamper with the game in some way. Since RNGing does neither, they don't see it as breaking the rules. It's just another way to play the game. And if you don't believe me, you can ask them yourself if you go this year.


Have you ever heard any official say that RNGd mons are permitted in their official, sanctioned Pokemon event? Ever? Ever ever? Ever ever ever? Come on man, don't buy into your own excuses. Also, I clearly said that Game Freak doesn't have the capability, or won't purchase the technology, to stop people from cheating. All they can do is say it is against the rules. I dare you to tell them you're team is RNG'd at the next big event though.
I have actually overheard some players do just that with officials (especially some of the Ducks and SkarmBlissers). If anything, the officials looked amazed (and obviously didn't disqualify them since they won the thing).


Gamefreak doesn't like their games being modified, but they don't mind players utilizing the mechanics they put in their to help play the game, otherwise it wouldn't be there or it would be near impossible to use.

Like I said, I appreciate your stance on cheating and agree with you as far as pokesav, AR, etc is concerned, but trying to group RNGing in with them is taking it a little too far.

Also, your attitude isn't helpful toward your argument. We're not attacking you, simply discussing the topic. No need to be so defensive.

zerky
2nd May 2011, 10:23 AM
These are the kinds of responses I was looking for, and I'm glad the FAQ helped people to grasp the basics so we could finally get into a proper debate. :D

@iBlade
Fair enough. I'll update the FAQ to be more neutral on the issue and be more specific on what "cheating device" means. I can't outright call RNGing cheating, since the issue appears to be highly contentious and I would get the exact opposite response if I did so.




The parts called into question are underlined. You claim this does not require a cheating device, yet a program which allows you to obtain very specific pokemon is both a device and is used to cheat.

From dictionary.com

1st definition of device: a thing made for a particular purpose; an invention or contrivance, especially a mechanical or electrical one.

5th definition of cheat: to violate rules or regulations: He cheats at cards.

From the official Pokemon tournament regulations

The use of external devices to alter the Pokémon in a player's party is expressly forbidden. Random checks will be performed throughout the tournament to determine whether or not an external device has been used to modify a player's party. Players found to have Pokémon that have been tampered with will be disqualified from the event, regardless of whether the player tampered with his or her game or received a Pokémon or item that was tampered with by someone other than the player. It is the player's responsibility to have legal Pokémon. Event officials have the final determination regarding the legality of a Pokémon.

also

As a player you are advised to use only Pokémon that you have raised yourself and items that you have received through normal game play.

Therefore, we can only come to the conclusion that using this RNG device is cheating.


I would like to point out that nearly everyone uses a 3rd party program to RNG, but it can be done without using any program at all. The math used to calculate seeds, spreads and frames is just math and can be done completely manually, although it would require many, many calculations and take a very long time. I would also like to point out that there is virtually no difference in the final result if you do the math by paper or if you use a calculator to do it for you.

In casinos, there is a similar line of argument about the practice of card counting when playing blackjack. Obviously in this case, no one uses a calculator when card counting, because the math is usually simple enough to be done in your head. However, like RNGing, card counting doesn't step outside of the realm of normal play by introducing elements that weren't already there, or changing the game's odds. Rather, the player is aware of the probability of all the outcomes and is playing the game in a way that takes those odds into account.



Here's my take. Game Freak will not spend the money to prevent this. Their goal is to make money, not a perfect competitive environment. Without exorbitant financial cost, the company is unable to stop you from doing this. I believe they would if they could. All they can do is tell you that it is against the rules. This punishes those with integrity and sends a message to players: cheat or lose. That's competitive pokemon in a nutshell. If it was meant for players to have these RNG'd mons, Game Freak could put a way to achieve them easily in-game, or much more likely, to sell a way to do it. Selling a whole new pokemod chip would make them tons of money, yet they chose not to do it. I bet they've thought about it. Conclusion: it would be bad for the game to permit it.


It is impossible for any technology to determine whether or not a pokémon has been RNGed, unless GameFreak starts installing spyware on your computer and chips in your head.


Thank you for respecting my stance. I've backed up all my assertions with evidence, not emotion. For you to claim that I'm taking it too far I think the same needs to be done on your side.

Quite honestly I don't expect to change anyones opinions here. Every has to live with themselves. Let's make a deal. Before any of you respond, talk to someone who's integrity you greatly respect. Father, grandfather, religious leader; anyone whom you respect. Ask them if they feel its shady and see what they say.

I'm sorry, and this is really irrelevant, but this really bugged me when I saw it. lol.

There is a very large contradiction between your the first and second paragraphs... lol

(for the record, I asked my sister what she thought about it and her eyes glazed over while I explained the mechanics of RNGing and when I was done she responded with, "sure, if that's what you like." I asked her what she thought of card counting and she said, "oh man! Have you seen 21? It makes me want to be good at math!")

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
2nd May 2011, 10:26 AM
Oh, don't worry already edited my post as well.

DBK
2nd May 2011, 10:41 AM
The only people satisfied with your requirement of cheating to have to altar the game code are people looking to justify their actions. The excuse is paper thin.
For the umpteenth time, no game code is being manipulated whatsoever. Either you're unable to read basic English or you're trolling - somehow, quite a few signs are pointing to the latter.

That's not what he said. He said that our only requirement for cheating is if the game code is altered and that those of us who think that (or are satisfied with that, as he put it) are just looking for an excuse to justify "cheating by RNGing".

Calm Minds conquer all. :)

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
2nd May 2011, 10:44 AM
I see. Too sleepy to pick up the message he tried to convey there, but thanks. Regardless his "definition" of cheating isn't actually the most accurate one from what I've seen.

SkittyOnWailord
2nd May 2011, 11:01 AM
Hello zerky,

Your post is well written and well intended. However I wish to call you out on one of your points, which is an untruth.

The parts called into question are underlined. You claim this does not require a cheating device, yet a program which allows you to obtain very specific pokemon is both a device and is used to cheat.

From dictionary.com

1st definition of device: a thing made for a particular purpose; an invention or contrivance, especially a mechanical or electrical one.

5th definition of cheat: to violate rules or regulations: He cheats at cards.

From the official Pokemon tournament regulations

The use of external devices to alter the Pokémon in a player's party is expressly forbidden. Random checks will be performed throughout the tournament to determine whether or not an external device has been used to modify a player's party. Players found to have Pokémon that have been tampered with will be disqualified from the event, regardless of whether the player tampered with his or her game or received a Pokémon or item that was tampered with by someone other than the player. It is the player's responsibility to have legal Pokémon. Event officials have the final determination regarding the legality of a Pokémon.

also

As a player you are advised to use only Pokémon that you have raised yourself and items that you have received through normal game play.

Therefore, we can only come to the conclusion that using this RNG device is cheating.

Since I worked at the VGC a few years ago I'll point this out. To put it simply, Nintendo's defanition of a "cheating device" is basically anything that voids the warranty of your DS or games, like for example any device that isn't sold or licensed by Nintendo that goes into the DS or game slot (like an AR for example). Or trading for something that has.
So to put it simply: If you can do it with just a DS and the game catrage and nothing else connected to either of those then Nintendo has no problem with it. And if Nintendo has no problem with it then there's nothing wrong with it. Now the morality of RNG is a whole different discussion.

EDIT:


Have you ever heard any official say that RNGd mons are permitted in their official, sanctioned Pokemon event? Ever? Ever ever? Ever ever ever? Come on man, don't buy into your own excuses.

There you go. I just said it.

Ememew
2nd May 2011, 11:33 AM
Haha yeah, I predicted this flamming since no one who wasn't cheating would likely be reading a post on how to do it.

Looks like I bruised some egos. Truth stings sometimes, doesn't it?

Um, I don't know a thing about RNGing, so I can't really comment on that part, but I feel the urge to point out that disagreeing does not equal flaming. They listed reasons as to why they disagreed with you, the same way you listed reasons for disagreeing with them. I saw neither side get "angry" or "mean" about it until you made the above statement.
Also you asserted that only cheaters would be reading this thread, but as someone who has never cheated (against it) or attempted to RNG (I don't battle competitively, so I don't even really care about perfect stats or anything, whether RNGing is legit or not), I read this. That fact alone does not make me a cheater, nor does it make me (or anyone else responding to you) automatically someone who would disagree with your views. By your own logic of "no one who wasn't cheating would likely be reading a post on how to do it," why are you reading this and posting here?

Just because someone disagrees with you and counters your arguments doesn't make them flamers. Just because a person looks at a thread does not correlate with whether they agree with the statements in it. Sorry if this is off the thread's topic. I just felt it needed to be said.

iBlade
2nd May 2011, 6:45 PM
Just checking back in and I see a lot of good points have been made. I'll give them some thought before I respond, I need to sleep first. One thing that jumps out at me is the claim that the officials at a sponsered event such as the VGC are willing to say that using a RNG to bypass normal game play is not cheating. If that is indeed the case then I have no argument with it. If anyone has been in a VGC, and told the officials that their pokemon were attained through using a RNG, please let us know the result.

A quick response to Ememew before I take a break; I see you've misunderstood something. My statement, "...since no one who wasn't cheating would likely be reading a post on how to do it." was written and worded as intended. The word "likely" was inserted intentionally because it was unlikely that I would have ever read this thread. At the time I was doing research on RNG for this game to form my opinion of it to see if it was cheating or not, and the thread came up in the search engine. As poorly worded as it was with that double negative, the statement still stands. It is unlikely for those people who don't use RNG and have no interest in it (what I consider cheating at this time) to be reading this post. I maintain that the vast majority of readers of this thread use, or have a desire to learn how to use, RNG to gain a competitive advantage.

EDIT: Also want to apologize for my use of the word flamming, which turned out to be inflammatory itself. I'm admittedly too defensive.

Tomxc
2nd May 2011, 7:45 PM
iBlade, RNG boils down to just timing of when you perform any normal action (like turning on the game or turning on the C-Gear), so the results you can get is no different than if you just randomly turned on the game on a random day and happened to get the Pokemon you want.

So if you played the game one random day and happened to get a Pokemon with near-perfect IV's (of course statistically unlikely, but can potentially happen), then the cause of the result here is just that you performed a series of actions that adjusted values in the game through normal game play. In this case, you certainly wouldn't have thought that you had done any illegitimate or illegal action here simply because you got good stats. If you were able to repeat that same series of actions (like the exact time you turn on the game, move around the same number of steps carrying the same Pokemon, talk to the same people etc, and everything else that happens repeated the same way), then you would get the same result.

The goal of RNG'ing is simply to find out which series of actions to perform that will lead to the desired result, but the bottom line is that all these actions are still playing the game normally within the boundaries and limitations of the programming in the cartridge. You are not modifying any values inside the game cartridge, so the entire situation has the same potential and range of results as if you had never heard of RNG and were just playing the game for fun.

DBK
2nd May 2011, 8:04 PM
1) Just checking back in and I see a lot of good points have been made. I'll give them some thought before I respond, I need to sleep first. One thing that jumps out at me is the claim that the officials at a sponsered event such as the VGC are willing to say that using a RNG to bypass normal game play is not cheating. If that is indeed the case then I have no argument with it. If anyone has been in a VGC, and told the officials that their pokemon were attained through using a RNG, please let us know the result.

2) EDIT: Also want to apologize for my use of the word flamming, which turned out to be inflammatory itself. I'm admittedly too defensive.

1) A past official (and by association nintendo/game freak) just told you it wasn't cheating. If that doesn't get you to at least loosen your stance (we don't expect to change your mind, but to at least get you to understand and not be so adamantly against it) then maybe we should end the discussion before it gets out of hand *remembers the "other" RNG thread*.

2) lol No comment. :)

In bold: You're not bypassing normal gameplay, you are simply doing it more efficiently. The other mechanics of the game also "bypass" what would be considered normal gameplay, yet you don't believe using them is cheating. It is simply a mechanic of the game that the developers didn't think would be used, but have no problems with it being used.

Like Skitty said, if it doesn't connect directly to the game or ds, doesn't void the warranty, and doesn't tamper with the game in anyway, then it is not cheating.

dukedudez
2nd May 2011, 8:56 PM
So anybody here good at RNGing shiny pokemon and natures?

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
2nd May 2011, 9:43 PM
So anybody here good at RNGing shiny pokemon and natures?

*Sunglasses*

*head shifts to signature*

FatalOmega
2nd May 2011, 9:52 PM
*Sunglasses*

*head shifts to signature*

Are you really bragging about being able to exploit the gaming mechanics? Well have fun getting things that you do not need and are getting for with no effort at all.

Anyways I am going back to playing with perfectly usable non-Random Number Generated Pokemon.

DBK
2nd May 2011, 9:57 PM
Are you really bragging about being able to exploit the gaming mechanics? Well have fun getting things that you do not need and are getting for with no effort at all.

Anyways I am going back to playing with perfectly usable non-Random Number Generated Pokemon.

Spoken like someone who has no idea how RNGing works. Do you even realize how much work goes into setting that up to be able to use it properly? It's not an easier way, just a more guaranteed way.

If I could pull it off, I would be bragging, too.

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
2nd May 2011, 10:02 PM
Are you really bragging about being able to exploit the gaming mechanics? Well have fun getting things that you do not need and are getting for with no effort at all.

Anyways I am going back to playing with perfectly usable non-Random Number Generated Pokemon.

I didn't know answering his question was "bragging".

It's okay if you're possibly butthurt, just don't jump to conclusions, pal.

Edit: @dukedudez - I'm assuming you didn't abuse your ID/SID combo to enable a particular seed of your choosing always be shiny. (Which is what I did to the Mienfoo in my signature and quite a few others)

In that case, you'll struggle to find spreads for shiny captures. But there's a way to breed them and a guide on Smogon written by "Tesseraction" explains how.

dukedudez
2nd May 2011, 10:02 PM
Well I can now RNG for good IVs, but I'm utterly confused when it comes to shinies and natures.

DBK
2nd May 2011, 10:06 PM
I didn't know answering his question was "bragging".

It's okay if you're butthurt, just don't jump to conclusions, pal.

Lol The way you answered it was a little show-offy. But his response was completely unnecessary.

dukedudez
2nd May 2011, 10:06 PM
I have that PDF that's on Smogon, but it lost me with ID/SID.

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
2nd May 2011, 10:10 PM
Lol The way you answered it was a little show-offy. But his response was completely unnecessary.

Heh, it wasn't intentional. My signature is a bit trollish in a way, though.


I have that PDF that's on Smogon, but it lost me with ID/SID.

I was lost at that point for quite a while too, but then someone managed to explain it a bit more clearly. It's just a matter of generating a spread of your choosing that you'd like to be shiny and placing it in the "seed" part of "pandora's box" I can get into more details if you VM'd me.

FatalOmega
2nd May 2011, 10:14 PM
I did RNG in forth gen and wont attempt it on a fifth gen installment. At the end I found it kinda like a low blow to players who play the game for what it is. I ended up deleting my game file and going back to my third gen game at the end of it.

Sorry for wording it the way I did, but I do wish that these kind of things did not come to be. Going to stay away from this topic now to avoid another ill thought comment.

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
2nd May 2011, 10:18 PM
It's alright. I was initially the same way once I saw what players were doing a few years ago. But due to current events with real life, I find the time for such "moral" gameplay to be winding down. RNG however, can be done within minutes, or even an hour so It's the best way for me to fit sessions of Pokemon into my schedule and enjoying it competitively.

Tomxc
2nd May 2011, 10:24 PM
Anyways I am going back to playing with perfectly usable non-Random Number Generated Pokemon.

I think the term RNG is a bit misleading in that you are not really generating the numbers by modifying the game cartridge, you are still playing the game within all the limitations and rules that were programmed in, but performing actions like walking, turning on C-Gear, in a specific way to get a specific result, but all within the game's programming with no modifications (unlike Action Replay).

Technically, there's no such thing as non-Random Number Generated Pokemon because if you're playing the game, then everything you do will still be a direct result of the game's calculations and the internal "RNG". And even more technically is that in computers, there is no true random number generation- everything is pseudorandom, which is what makes the method known as "RNG" possible because if you play the game in an exact way and repeat it, you get the same result. But again you're not playing it by modifying it like an Action Replay, you are just playing it with timing of your button / stylus tapping in mind.

Tomxc
2nd May 2011, 10:28 PM
Well I can now RNG for good IVs, but I'm utterly confused when it comes to shinies and natures.

I'm not sure what DS you are using, but currently if you're using a DSi / DSi XL / 3DS then the methods of RNG are very limited, and people with those DS types will only be able to use the C-Gear method, which does not quite allow enough control for shinies, natures etc. Until the Standard method is figured out for DSi or higher, there's not much other way than luck for Shinies.

However if you have a DS Lite or the old DS, then you have more options right now.

dukedudez
2nd May 2011, 10:30 PM
I have the old, bulky ds

Too Funk to Druck
2nd May 2011, 10:42 PM
I plan on learning how to RNG in Gen V as soon as I get a DS charger. I was able to RNG breed shinies in DPPt using the Happiness checker/Coin flip method, but I never really attempted to learn how to catch shinies or catch/breed for IVs. Is it really easier in Gen V?

Tomxc
2nd May 2011, 10:46 PM
I have the old, bulky ds

Ah you have a lot of options then. There are a lot of different factors involved if you're going for shiny AND right nature AND IV's etc, and depending on where you are in the game (if there are a lot of moving NPC's around, or if you're trying to fish for a pokemon in a bubble spot, or if there's weather going on in the area). It certainly takes quite a bit of luck, possibly a lot, as well as timing, consistency, patience and practice, but as quoted from the Smogon guide, here's the order of difficulty from easiest to hardest in what you're trying to RNG:



[Easiest]
Stationary Legends (Zekrom/Kyurem/Musketeers/Volcarona/Foongus/Amoongus)
Gift Pokemon (Fossils/Larvesta Egg/Magikarp/Dreamyard Elemental Monkey Trio)
Wondercard Pokemon (not required)
Wild Pokemon in areas without moving NPCs using Encounter Slots
ID/SID Abuse for Shiny Frames on a Target Seed (not required)
Wild Pokemon in areas with moving NPCs using Encounter Slots
Egg Abuse
Swirling Sand / Water Spot (Surf/Fish)
White Forest Abuse (Nonshiny and Synchronize Only)
Roamer IV and Nature Abuse (nonshiny)
C-Gear Abuse for Entralink Pokemon from the Dream World
Roamer IV/Nature/Shiny Abuse in Snow or Rain
[Most Difficult]

From above, the most difficult would be trying to RNG a Thundurus with the right nature/shiny etc.

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
2nd May 2011, 10:46 PM
I plan on learning how to RNG in Gen V as soon as I get a DS charger. I was able to RNG breed shinies in DPPt using the Happiness checker/Coin flip method, but I never really attempted to learn how to catch shinies or catch/breed for IVs. Is it really easier in Gen V?

Yes, virtually anybody can do it now without a hassle. All you need is to hit your target time by the second and/or held keypress until the White Nintendo logo fades. Nature and/or ability is determined by your PID frames - which can be advanced by +1 with saving the game once, or viewing a Chatot whom have a chatter "cry" recorded.

Breaker
2nd May 2011, 10:55 PM
Is there a way to calculate your SID in BW? I wouldn't like to get it by cheating.:/

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
2nd May 2011, 10:58 PM
You don't really need your ID/SID for B/W standard abuse, unless you plan to go for shinies or something.

zerky
2nd May 2011, 11:40 PM
Anyways I am going back to playing with perfectly usable non-Random Number Generated Pokemon.
Every single one of your pokémon was generated by the game's random number generator. The only pokémon that aren't generated by the RNG are hacked pokémon.

pokefantravis
3rd May 2011, 2:50 AM
Hey, anyone have any tips for a beginner at RNG? I have been trying to RNG for a 31/31/31/30/30/30 Klink with an Adamant nature in B1F of Chargestone Cave, could anyone help?

Tomxc
3rd May 2011, 5:27 AM
Hey, anyone have any tips for a beginner at RNG? I have been trying to RNG for a 31/31/31/30/30/30 Klink with an Adamant nature in B1F of Chargestone Cave, could anyone help?

You need to provide more info because RNG depends on a LOT of factors. Most importantly, what DS type are you using and what Method are you using? Also, what version of RNG Reporter are you using, and how are you timing it?

SkittyOnWailord
3rd May 2011, 2:47 PM
Like Skitty said, if it doesn't connect directly to the game or ds, doesn't void the warranty, and doesn't tamper with the game in anyway, then it is not cheating.

One other thing I thought that I should point out. RNG is done by using a PC program to tell you information about your game that normally isn't known or intended to be known. Well IVs and EVs are the same thing. RNG and IVs/EVs were (I'm assuming) both figured out by reverse engineering the games. And both still require you to look up info with a PC to get them done, otherwise how would you know what Pokemon give what EVs or even that there's a 510 EV cap? And you wouldn't know what your Pokemon's IVs are either without an IV calculator, which was first made the same way that RNG calculators were. So if someone is saying that using RNG is cheating then they must think that anyone who breeds for perfect IVs or EV trains are cheating too.

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
3rd May 2011, 5:02 PM
In short: RNG isn't cheating. As someone in the above posts mentioned, the "morality" of it can be discussed. Yet, even "morality" is subjective.

Pamizard
3rd May 2011, 5:11 PM
o-o I can't believe RNG is back for Black and white. I did it once in Platinum. I dont think I'm going to RNG this time for my shinies. I'm very patient with MM this time.

nahcmo
3rd May 2011, 7:40 PM
Well, after my first real attempt at RNG Abuse of a shiny egg, I got this beauty just a few moments ago. :D

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/4646/togepi.jpg

Togepi (M) - Timid
Serene Grace
31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 /31

Personally, it certainly beats breeding and hatching eggs for 50+ cumulative hours and 2,000+ eggs (my MM attempt for a shiny Joltik, UGH). Gah, I love RNG Abuse. <3

Pamizard
3rd May 2011, 7:57 PM
Now is RNG in 5th gen harder to do than in Platinum? I'm reading up on it at this moment and im trying to figure out if i should test this out or not

nahcmo
3rd May 2011, 8:05 PM
Now is RNG in 5th gen harder to do than in Platinum? I'm reading up on it at this moment and im trying to figure out if i should test this out or not

Well, I guess for me personally, comprehension of how to RNG Abuse in Gen V was harder than in Gen IV. But I think the process of actually carrying out the RNG Abuse is easier. For example, Chattering > Tapping, lol.

But of course, that's just me. It may be easier in Gen V than in Gen IV for others.

Pamizard
3rd May 2011, 8:18 PM
this is way harder then I thought. I'm so confused... i don't get what im suppose to be doing im reading up but.. I'm still not understanding it

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
3rd May 2011, 8:21 PM
It generally seems that way, but if you're reading Smogon's guides, they willl be quick to intimidate you with their terminology.

Perhaps if I'm not lazy I should write up a foolproof guide to B/W RNG once I'm certain that I've mastered it.

Tomxc
3rd May 2011, 8:26 PM
It generally seems that way, but if you're reading Smogon's guides, they willl be quick to intimidate you with their terminology.

Perhaps if I'm not lazy I should write up a foolproof guide to B/W RNG once I'm certain that I've mastered it.

I thought this guide on Smogon was extremely helpful: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3446600

And no matter how good a guide is, the key is still patience. If people aren't willing to spend a few hours thinking this through, then no guide can really help that much.

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
3rd May 2011, 8:29 PM
Yeah, I've actually used that very one you've posted for breeds. He's pretty thorough with what he's talking about too.

Pamizard
3rd May 2011, 8:41 PM
I thought this guide on Smogon was extremely helpful: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3446600

And no matter how good a guide is, the key is still patience. If people aren't willing to spend a few hours thinking this through, then no guide can really help that much.

Hmm i'm reading the thread now. DO we need a secret ID to help us with this or no?

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
3rd May 2011, 8:53 PM
You don't need a secret ID unless you're going for shinies.

Pamizard
3rd May 2011, 9:05 PM
Ok i treid it and wow... it actually worked. I"ll probably use it on some shinies i dont want to take time hatching with MM, not all my POkemon.

EDIT: Shiny Karrablast, Lonely natured, All ivs o.e since i followed the guide on smogon

Malanu
3rd May 2011, 9:08 PM
I'm to old and lazy to even try to begin trying something like this. I'm happy with just breeding & Feathering/vitamin my Pokemon!

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
3rd May 2011, 9:21 PM
Ok i treid it and wow... it actually worked. I"ll probably use it on some shinies i dont want to take time hatching with MM, not all my POkemon.

EDIT: Shiny Karrablast, Lonely natured, All ivs o.e since i followed the guide on smogon


And keep it up, practice makes perfect.

Pamizard
3rd May 2011, 9:32 PM
And keep it up, practice makes perfect.

Well i dont want to always rely on it for my shinies. I"ll only RNG those i dont want to wait for MM for. All the Pokemon i want to MM will BE MM'd only

dukedudez
3rd May 2011, 9:35 PM
Which method did you use for your shiny?

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
3rd May 2011, 9:39 PM
Well i dont want to always rely on it for my shinies. I"ll only RNG those i dont want to wait for MM for. All the Pokemon i want to MM will BE MM'd only

Well for me, shinies are purely aesthetics. They don't really add much at all if I get one. But there are a select few I'd do to get RNG abused and shiny. (Zorua)

pokefantravis
3rd May 2011, 10:57 PM
You need to provide more info because RNG depends on a LOT of factors. Most importantly, what DS type are you using and what Method are you using? Also, what version of RNG Reporter are you using, and how are you timing it?

Well, I am using the non C-gear method, on a DS lite. I am also using the latest version of RNG reporter, and I am pretty sure of what I am doing, except for one thing, I used the first video link on Smogon, and at one point of the video, he mentioned hitting the times given a second earlier because of the one second differential between the time he pressed the button to start the game and the time it took to generate the seed for when he needed to get the IVs of a sweetscented pokemon. In the video, he was using an original DS, and I need to know if the differential applies to the DS Lite, because I think that is where my trouble may be, and I am not sure if the DS Lite generates the seed the instant I press the button to start it, or a second after I hit the button. Also, when I checked, there are no moving NPCs in B1F of Chargestone Cave. And one other thing, It only worked one time for reasons I am not sure of. And also, the time it gives me for a spread of 31/31/31/30/30/30 is "5/3/11: 14:30:11", and I have been hitting the time at "14:30:10" because of the said differential in the video, I am not sure if the version I am using, which is the most recent (9.77), subtracts the differential from the time that is given to avoid confusion, or if I still need to subtract the differential. Hopefully, this helps to clear things up.

pkmnfn
3rd May 2011, 11:20 PM
Hello, I am a first time RNG'er and I was wondering if someone could guide me through it step-by-step. I looked at the smogon guide and I got really confused... I already have downloaded the RNG reporter and I've saved in front of the day-care guy. I'm hoping to get a shiny litwick. I don't have much to offer anyone who helps... PM me if you think you can help :)

Pamizard
4th May 2011, 12:14 AM
Which method did you use for your shiny?

First I tried out the C-gear method but it was so complicated for me I couldn't do it. I then did a standard one and that took me a little time as well but managed to finally understand it.

Zenotwapal
4th May 2011, 1:43 AM
What I don't get is how the external crap on the computer works. Do you sync your game to the program or something? And then it calculates your SID for you? How in the heck am I supposed to do this?

dukedudez
4th May 2011, 1:59 AM
Did you do the IVRNG or the PIDRNG?

Dr. Leggs
4th May 2011, 2:25 AM
So after reading the videos Smogon link to I think I finally understand the concept of RNGing, and hopefully I'll try it sometime soon for the perfect Cottonee. :0

PokeMEN
4th May 2011, 3:02 AM
Personally I just hate RNG breeding...takes away from perfect pokes and shinies

DBK
4th May 2011, 3:47 AM
Personally I just hate RNG breeding...takes away from perfect pokes and shinies

I agree with you there. I'd rather MM for breeding if I want to get a shiny. For IVs, I already have parents with favorable IVs, so I simply need to do some creative breeding and voila! :)

Outside of breeding, RNGing is very useful. And after a few years of studying, I'm sure I'll start to be able to do it. :p

SkittyOnWailord
4th May 2011, 11:19 AM
What I don't get is how the external crap on the computer works. Do you sync your game to the program or something? And then it calculates your SID for you? How in the heck am I supposed to do this?

Not at all. Your game never touches the program on your PC. You basically just get your ID# of your Pokemon game and the MAC address of your DS and type them into the program. The program then tells you exactly when to turn on your DS and the first thing you catch will be that high-IV and/or shiny Pokemon.
That's putting it a bit simply, but that's roughly all there is to it.

nahcmo
4th May 2011, 5:31 PM
Man, I regret catching every single legendary in this game when I first started playing. Now they have both crappy natures AND IV's, lol. :b

Hmmm, I still have Landorus though..

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
4th May 2011, 5:39 PM
Well you could always restart, but that may not necessarily be exciting.

I have RNG'd in my very first save file though, lol. Was quite easy to learn and my first capture was a flawless Hasty Zekrom.

nahcmo
4th May 2011, 5:53 PM
Yeah, I have a ton of stuff on my White game that would be a pain in the *** to move lol. Oh well, it's not like I can use them in the Battle Subway... but they still sure would make really nice trophies. :3

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
4th May 2011, 5:56 PM
Yeah, I have a ton of stuff on my White game that would be a pain in the *** to move lol. Oh well, it's not like I can use them in the Battle Subway... but they still sure would make really nice trophies. :3

-Cough- I know of a method of "transferring", so to speak.

||Caboose||
4th May 2011, 5:58 PM
I might just buy a original DS for a GBA slot and its easier to RNG abuse on it since I only have a 3DS and DSi XL.
Is there any other way to check the SID in older games without hacks (I'm restarting japanese platinum) because X-Acts PID - SID doesn't work and I keep getting a 404 error.

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
4th May 2011, 6:06 PM
You could always try Pokecheck if you're looking for your SID. It's pretty much a fake GTS.

||Caboose||
4th May 2011, 6:10 PM
You could always try Pokecheck if you're looking for your SID. It's pretty much a fake GTS.
I tried that fake GTS before and it gave me a different SID from an SID that I already used to get shiny pokemon in diamond. Either I'm wrong or that site is wrong so I guess I'll have to check later.

Dr. Leggs
4th May 2011, 6:14 PM
My only question about starting the RNG process is how do you check the IVs of the first Pokemon you encounter? If you don't have Rare Candies it seems like a rather daunting task. .__.

||Caboose||
4th May 2011, 6:20 PM
My only question about starting the RNG process is how do you check the IVs of the first Pokemon you encounter? If you don't have Rare Candies it seems like a rather daunting task. .__.
In RNG Reporter you can use Stats to Seed for 4th gen but they added 5th gen pokemon in that but I haven't tried it.. So catch a level 50 or higher pokemon, put everything in that it asks, and you should get something at the bottom so click it and press ok and it puts your seed in the Seed(hex) box on the main screen.

Or you can go to the battle subway, ask the guy about your pokemon's highest IV's then do a lv 50 battle on the single subway, and copy down the stats and put them into metalkids iv calculator (http://www.metalkid.info/Pokemon/Calculators/IV.aspx).

Nymphaea
4th May 2011, 6:25 PM
You don't need rare candies. Use an IV calculator that allows you to enter everything (nature, characteristic, hidden power type, judge potential) and so long as it is level 20+ you should get within 2-3 of each IV, which is usually narrow enough of a range. Heck, with all the info you might find 4+ exact IVs.

And I'm not sure about Pokecheck's SID's. I'm having trouble finding shinies at the moment, so it may be incorrect. Going to try RNGing more later to see if I can get it working. Have been able to get exact IV's though, always nice to see it working :D

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
4th May 2011, 6:26 PM
You don't need rare candies. Use an IV calculator that allows you to enter everything (nature, characteristic, hidden power type, judge potential) and so long as it is level 20+ you should get within 2-3 of each IV, which is usually narrow enough of a range. Heck, with all the info you might find 4+ exact IVs.

And I'm not sure about Pokecheck's SID's. I'm having trouble finding shinies at the moment, so it may be incorrect. Going to try RNGing more later to see if I can get it working. Have been able to get exact IV's though, always nice to see it working :D

Actually it is pretty correct. My SID was an exact match on my old save file.

Perhaps you both are just having some sort of error.

Tomxc
4th May 2011, 6:51 PM
Well, I am using the non C-gear method, on a DS lite. I am also using the latest version of RNG reporter, and I am pretty sure of what I am doing, except for one thing, I used the first video link on Smogon, and at one point of the video, he mentioned hitting the times given a second earlier because of the one second differential between the time he pressed the button to start the game and the time it took to generate the seed for when he needed to get the IVs of a sweetscented pokemon. In the video, he was using an original DS, and I need to know if the differential applies to the DS Lite, because I think that is where my trouble may be, and I am not sure if the DS Lite generates the seed the instant I press the button to start it, or a second after I hit the button. Also, when I checked, there are no moving NPCs in B1F of Chargestone Cave. And one other thing, It only worked one time for reasons I am not sure of. And also, the time it gives me for a spread of 31/31/31/30/30/30 is "5/3/11: 14:30:11", and I have been hitting the time at "14:30:10" because of the said differential in the video, I am not sure if the version I am using, which is the most recent (9.77), subtracts the differential from the time that is given to avoid confusion, or if I still need to subtract the differential. Hopefully, this helps to clear things up.

These type of timing things will differ for everyone most likely so you'll have to keep trying and adjusting until you get it consistently for your system. But if you're using a timer calculator to help, like EonTimer (highly recommended), then you just need to calibrate it (and it'll automatically recalculate closer times for you to press). And then just try again and again until you hit the right seed. Other factors may also influence the delay like whether or not you have a charger in. Some people have said having the charger in messed up with their timing, but other people have said using the charger actually made their timing closer, so all these variables often just depend on the specific situation.

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
4th May 2011, 6:57 PM
Other factors may also influence the delay like whether or not you have a charger in. Some people have said having the charger in messed up with their timing, but other people have said using the charger actually made their timing closer, so all these variables often just depend on the specific situation.

I can't think of any particular reason why a DS charger would affect delays. Also, iirc, it was mentioned somewhere in Smogon's 5th gen PRNG help thread that a charger didn't have any adverse effects during the process.

Correct me If I'm wrong, though.

legendary pkm master
4th May 2011, 8:17 PM
man you really are playing 110% of the game. I don't think it's this serious to get perfect pokemon lol

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
4th May 2011, 8:19 PM
If you're a competitive player, trust me, it is.

Pamizard
4th May 2011, 8:30 PM
SO i've tried the RNG stuff agian an pretty much getting it. I'm not goin gto use it all the time though, only if i dont' have time to hatch eggs for a while.

Tomxc
4th May 2011, 8:40 PM
I can't think of any particular reason why a DS charger would affect delays. Also, iirc, it was mentioned somewhere in Smogon's 5th gen PRNG help thread that a charger didn't have any adverse effects during the process.

Correct me If I'm wrong, though.

I think it's probably a more psychological effect, but as long as there's consistency, I think it doesn't really matter either. So yeah the charger doesn't directly affect the delay values, but just the mental part in how someone presses a button haha.

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
4th May 2011, 8:57 PM
I think it's probably a more psychological effect, but as long as there's consistency, I think it doesn't really matter either. So yeah the charger doesn't directly affect the delay values, but just the mental part in how someone presses a button haha.

Yeah, I'm thinking that as well. Sometimes I tend to get quite tense/frustrated when I miss seeds that require dozens of frame advances to be hit perfectly. Then I relax and keep a cleared head and I'm able to hit them perfectly. A lot like my Kyurem last night.

~Light
4th May 2011, 10:12 PM
Trying it out for about an hour now. I really don't understand anything of it..

dukedudez
4th May 2011, 10:30 PM
Where would you enter in your SID in RNGreporter?

The Eleventh
4th May 2011, 10:31 PM
I think I will try out RNGing this Gen, just to see if I can do it. I did last Gen, as I legitimately obtained my SID (I didn't bother using it to obtain shinies). Do I need my SID to RNG shinies in Gen V using the non-C-Gear method?

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
4th May 2011, 10:47 PM
Yes, you most definitely do need it again. As your SID pretty much determines what spreads can be shiny on a certain frame.

dukedudez
4th May 2011, 10:47 PM
Where do you put your SID into RNGreporter?

Tomxc
4th May 2011, 10:50 PM
Where do you put your SID into RNGreporter?

In the box that says SID next to it? Where else would you enter it?

dukedudez
4th May 2011, 10:57 PM
So I went on Pokecheck and found the SID of the shiny emolga I caught in the game. Then I went on the time finder on RNGreporter and entered in my Emolga's ID and it's SID and put the Max frame as 1 and checked the box for shiny only. Then I put my method as Standard Seed and Wild pokemon. A bunch of seeds came up and I randomly chose one, hit the seed and when I sweet scented there was no shiny. So, I tried that same seed again and still no shiny. Then I tried another one and hit the seed and there wasn't a shiny. Am I doing something wrong?

Penguinsftw
5th May 2011, 12:53 AM
Can anyone help me find my SID? -__-
I hear you can find it with an AR card.
I could just borrow my friends ds lite to check but
Is there anyway someone can help me?
(i know the original is get a shiny and check IV'S)

Nymphaea
5th May 2011, 1:39 AM
So I went on Pokecheck and found the SID of the shiny emolga I caught in the game. Then I went on the time finder on RNGreporter and entered in my Emolga's ID and it's SID and put the Max frame as 1 and checked the box for shiny only. Then I put my method as Standard Seed and Wild pokemon. A bunch of seeds came up and I randomly chose one, hit the seed and when I sweet scented there was no shiny. So, I tried that same seed again and still no shiny. Then I tried another one and hit the seed and there wasn't a shiny. Am I doing something wrong?

You need to advance the PIDRNG as well, which is generally done by saving the game over and over(each save increases it by 1)

To figure it out, right click your seed and hit "copy full seed", go to the main RNG Reporter window and go to "Method 5 PIDRNG", put the "Wild Encounter" in, and your seed. Hit the "Calculate Initial Seed"(usually 40 something, I usually get 46-49) then Generate. It will give you a list of all Natures you can hit, and the ones with "!!!" are shiny.

You don't really need the list though, since you found the shiny with time finder. Subtract the initial seed from before from the "Nearest Shiny" on your time finder(should be beside frame) and that will tell you how many times to save.(if it is negative it will take billions, find a different seed :P)

Would be nice if someone else checked what I said, this is my understanding, going to do Dreamworld right now before trying this myself :P


Can anyone help me find my SID? -__-
I hear you can find it with an AR card.
I could just borrow my friends ds lite to check but
Is there anyway someone can help me?
(i know the original is get a shiny and check IV'S)

http://pokecheck.kraftpaper.org/

It was on the last page, without a link but still not hard to google "pokemon pokecheck" :P Great little tool for ID/SID/IVs/EVs.

dukedudez
5th May 2011, 2:47 AM
Ok, well my frame was 1 and my nearest shiny was 1. So should I try and find a nearest shiny of 2 so I don't have to save?

Edit: So I tried a seed in the time finder that had a frame of 1 and a Nearest Shiny of 2. Since 2-1=1, I hit the seed and when I got in the game I saved once and then without turning off the power I sweet scented and a shiny didn't appear.

Nymphaea
5th May 2011, 3:20 AM
Ok, well my frame was 1 and my nearest shiny was 1. So should I try and find a nearest shiny of 2 so I don't have to save?

Edit: So I tried a seed in the time finder that had a frame of 1 and a Nearest Shiny of 2. Since 2-1=1, I hit the seed and when I got in the game I saved once and then without turning off the power I sweet scented and a shiny didn't appear.

Re-Read what I said. You need your initial frame, it always starts out saying 1, you need to put in your seed and hit "Calculate Initial PIDRNG Frame", that is your initial, if the "Nearest Shiny" is below that number(aka you would get a negative with the math) then you can't get that one unless you plan on saving a few billion times. From what I can tell, it's usually 40-50, so you should look for shinies higher than 50.

dukedudez
5th May 2011, 3:32 AM
Ok. I'll try that out soon

Penguinsftw
5th May 2011, 3:44 AM
You need to advance the PIDRNG as well, which is generally done by saving the game over and over(each save increases it by 1)

To figure it out, right click your seed and hit "copy full seed", go to the main RNG Reporter window and go to "Method 5 PIDRNG", put the "Wild Encounter" in, and your seed. Hit the "Calculate Initial Seed"(usually 40 something, I usually get 46-49) then Generate. It will give you a list of all Natures you can hit, and the ones with "!!!" are shiny.

You don't really need the list though, since you found the shiny with time finder. Subtract the initial seed from before from the "Nearest Shiny" on your time finder(should be beside frame) and that will tell you how many times to save.(if it is negative it will take billions, find a different seed :P)

Would be nice if someone else checked what I said, this is my understanding, going to do Dreamworld right now before trying this myself :P



http://pokecheck.kraftpaper.org/

It was on the last page, without a link but still not hard to google "pokemon pokecheck" :P Great little tool for ID/SID/IVs/EVs.

What time zone is this forum O.o
and would it work if someone trades you a shiny?

Nymphaea
5th May 2011, 4:48 AM
What time zone is this forum O.o
and would it work if someone trades you a shiny?

Not sure, I have it set to my own timezone(can change it in the User CP at top of page)

And no, you need your own. It doesn't have to be shiny for Pokecheck though. All of your Pokemon have your SID on them, it's just hidden, obviously. Pokecheck will show you all the secret stats and values on a Pokemon, including IVs and SID.

sea_boy21
5th May 2011, 8:25 PM
just a question folks
is it possible to RNG on a 3ds?

DBK
5th May 2011, 8:43 PM
just a question folks
is it possible to RNG on a 3ds?

Yes, but the actions you would have to take would be a little different (I think).

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
5th May 2011, 8:52 PM
just a question folks
is it possible to RNG on a 3ds?

That would require C-gear abuse, which is considerably harder to do.

sea_boy21
5th May 2011, 10:42 PM
how do i do it? ;D ;D

DBK
5th May 2011, 10:44 PM
how do i do it? ;D ;D

There should be a link a page back (maybe two?) to Smogon's RNG guide. I would give that a read.

sea_boy21
5th May 2011, 10:52 PM
There should be a link a page back (maybe two?) to Smogon's RNG guide. I would give that a read.

But there's nothing about c-gear communication right? :/

Excitable Boy
5th May 2011, 10:53 PM
But there's nothing about c-gear communication right? :/

That has absolutely nothing to do with RNGing whatsoever.

So, no.

sea_boy21
5th May 2011, 11:12 PM
That has absolutely nothing to do with RNGing whatsoever.

So, no.

but there's no point doing it for me if i can't actully use it on my console u see ;P so teech me!

Excitable Boy
5th May 2011, 11:20 PM
but there's no point doing it for me if i can't actully use it on my console u see ;P so teech me!

Go read a guide if you want to learn.

sea_boy21
5th May 2011, 11:54 PM
Go read a guide if you want to learn.

and then fail on dling? :o

legendarypokemonmaster
5th May 2011, 11:59 PM
Not 100% sure about the topic. RNG Abuse makes imperfect pokemon less valuable, and it makes perfect/shiny pokemon less valuable because they are much easier to get. I don't think RNG Abuse is cheating, you do not overide the game's code, nor do you get something that cannot be generated through normal means. AR/Pokesav/etc = cheating.

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
6th May 2011, 12:34 AM
Not 100% sure about the topic. RNG Abuse makes imperfect pokemon less valuable, and it makes perfect/shiny pokemon less valuable because they are much easier to get. I don't think RNG Abuse is cheating, you do not overide the game's code, nor do you get something that cannot be generated through normal means. AR/Pokesav/etc = cheating.

Sorry, stopped reading when you mentioned "value" in Pokemon.

legendarypokemonmaster
6th May 2011, 12:39 AM
As in trading to other people, rarity. Not completely sure what you meant.

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
6th May 2011, 12:42 AM
As in trading to other people, rarity. Not completely sure what you meant.

The rarity people will find in Pokemon is, well, subjective. That's the problem with your argument right now.

What you believe doesn't have as much value, doesn't necessarily carry over to the other person.

Tomxc
6th May 2011, 12:44 AM
But there's nothing about c-gear communication right? :/

Pretty sure the VERY first post of the Smogon guide talks about C-Gear seeds. Here is a link to it again: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83057

Look for this part and read the entire thing:

C-Gear seeds use delay, and are set when you turn on the C-Gear. There are two points in which you can activate the C-Gear:
- At the continue screen
- In game
Activating the C-Gear at the continue screen have a postponed seeding, the MTRNG is reseeded once you regain control of your character. This is why it is best to get your C-Gear seed in game. By turning on the C-Gear via the Power button at the bottom right and pressing yes, the seed is instantly set.



Here's a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M26PvryQIA

As a note, if you want to RNG Pokemon from Dream World (through Entralink), you'll have to do the C-Gear method regardless of your DS type.

legendarypokemonmaster
6th May 2011, 12:45 AM
The rarity people will find in Pokemon is, well, subjective. That's the problem with your argument right now
Oh, ok, but it's easier to get high IV/shiny pokemon which are supposed to be rare.

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
6th May 2011, 12:52 AM
Oh, ok, but it's easier to get high IV/shiny pokemon which are supposed to be rare.

High IVs, yes. But shinies are a bigger pain than you're thinking. Not the process of getting them; but the preparation. Or, at least in the fifth generation. Even more so in breeding as well -- as finding a flawless, or flawless hidden power shiny spread in RNG reporter that doesn't have massive frames (1000+) is about a ~3/100,000,000,000 chance, assuming you haven't abused your ID/SID at least.

But the major reward factor is, you'll know what you get if you've done this correctly. Whereas RE/MM will continue to give you randomized results.

legendarypokemonmaster
6th May 2011, 1:00 AM
Ah I see, I have not tried 5th gen abuse yet.

kaiser soze
6th May 2011, 4:07 AM
glad to hear 5th gen has been busted. I can get wifi at college but next weekend im going home for the summer where I cant get on the home network and I doubt I will be able to use nintendo wifi. I was going to try it in the previous gen but I didnt want to look for my SID. so in addition to doing some playthroughs I will start RNGing.

Nymphaea
6th May 2011, 5:15 AM
Finally got the shininess working. Seems the Initial frame calculated by RNG Reporter is almost always a few off, it seems to be consistent too(Mine is always 3 too high so far)

I've also noticed that my timer0 seems to alternate, unlike the random that some people have reported, so basically every other attempt will be the right seed.

Currently working on getting Virizion, the only of the three I actually plan to use. Kind of annoying, but I guess you have to get used to it for the good Pokemon.(good example for what you were saying earlier) For a shiny with 30/31 in everything but SpAtk, I have to walk 128 steps then listen to that stupid Chatot 206 times. Steps wise I'm sure that's pretty lucky, it isn't too much(frame 5, have 4 Pokemon with me) but the PIDRNG is driving me nuts and giving me a headache.

Thinking of Chatot, I HIGHLY suggest it to anyone, even if listening is annoying, it is much faster than saving over and over. Thinking of getting a second so it goes by even faster, and quieter :P

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
6th May 2011, 5:58 AM
I would highly advise you use frame 1 seeds for stationaries.

Or better yet, everything. Might take a little more searching, but every single Pokemon I've RNG'd on my new file is a frame 1 seed.

Now for finding a shiny HP Rock spread for Volcarona...

kaiser soze
6th May 2011, 8:22 AM
OK so Ive done some looking at a few guides and Im looking for a little help understanding stuff with PPRNG (using mac)

What I roughly understand:
- go to DS parameter search to find the timer0, vcount and vframe
- to do so record the exact time i started my game and catch a pokemon from right where Im standing, then check IV with a calc.
- enter in those, ID, MAC address, etc into game config
- use standard seed searcher to find a seed that gives what I want
- to use that seed, reset the game clock to the specified time, then restart (holding buttons if necessary) then get it

what Im not getting:
- what is meant by IV frame and PID frame? I kinda understand you got to move around 128 times or save or do something with chatlot
- is there a way to ask for a specific nature without being shiny?
- some definitions would also help, which follow. several are there because they just have one letter in the column:
T...-
IV...-
!!!...-
S...-
ESV...-
gender-
IV frame-
PID frame-

thanks in advance

sea_boy21
6th May 2011, 11:12 AM
Pretty sure the VERY first post of the Smogon guide talks about C-Gear seeds. Here is a link to it again: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83057

Look for this part and read the entire thing:


Here's a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M26PvryQIA

As a note, if you want to RNG Pokemon from Dream World (through Entralink), you'll have to do the C-Gear method regardless of your DS type.

oh thx :P

Nymphaea
6th May 2011, 1:33 PM
I would highly advise you use frame 1 seeds for stationaries.

Or better yet, everything. Might take a little more searching, but every single Pokemon I've RNG'd on my new file is a frame 1 seed.

Now for finding a shiny HP Rock spread for Volcarona...

I don't mind the other frames, so long as they are low numbers. It doesn't take long to run back and forth a few times, just needs you to plan out the route. I used a frame 1 for Cobalion though. Caught Virizion, working on the last one now :)

Curious question, does walking in a wild area with a repel active still increase your PIDRNG frame?


what Im not getting:
- what is meant by IV frame and PID frame? I kinda understand you got to move around 128 times or save or do something with chatlot
- is there a way to ask for a specific nature without being shiny?
- some definitions would also help, which follow. several are there because they just have one letter in the column:
T...-
IV...-
!!!...-
S...-
ESV...-
gender-
IV frame-
PID frame-

I'm not sure with PPRNG, but there's some similarities.

IV frame and PID frame is talking about the 2 seperate random number generators used to create a Pokemon. The IV frame goes up by the amount of Pokemon in your party every 128 steps. The PID frame goes up by 1 every time you save or listen to a chattering chatot, you can walk in wild pokemon areas to increase it by 2 but then you risk increasing IV frame or entering a battle.

The only of those definitions you want, other than the obvious ones, that I know is "!!!", which is a shiny frame if it is the same as RNG Reporter.

kaiser soze
6th May 2011, 1:41 PM
Well thanks for that. I have been trying to use the DS parameter searcher to get the other variables, but so far Ive failed about 10 times. :( do you use the date you started the save file of the current date?

Nymphaea
6th May 2011, 1:57 PM
Well thanks for that. I have been trying to use the DS parameter searcher to get the other variables, but so far Ive failed about 10 times. :( do you use the date you started the save file of the current date?

For the DS parameters? You need the exact time and date you turned on the game when you caught the Pokemon you are giving the IVs for. Basically, sit at the main screen, watch the clock, and press A, watching the clock. Generally, it will go up another second before starting the game.

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
6th May 2011, 4:35 PM
Curious question, does walking in a wild area with a repel active still increase your PIDRNG frame?

Not exactly sure about that since I've never heard about such a thing. But walking in general or turning randomly seems to advance the PID frames by +1 or 2.

I haven't given it much research, as I avoid "128 step" seeds.

Nymphaea
6th May 2011, 7:54 PM
Not exactly sure about that since I've never heard about such a thing. But walking in general or turning randomly seems to advance the PID frames by +1 or 2.

I haven't given it much research, as I avoid "128 step" seeds.

It's only if you can encounter Pokemon that it does that, it has no reason to if you can't. I just answered my own question though, it seems that it does increase even with a repel, as I tried getting my Terrakion and after testing a few natures, it seems my PIDRNG is up at 349, when I was aiming for 63. Guess for this one I'll have to look for a better seed :/

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
6th May 2011, 8:24 PM
Frame 1 solves all problems; join the frame 1 side.

You know you want to.

dukedudez
6th May 2011, 9:04 PM
Hey Advent, do you think you can just list the steps you took to get a shiny flawless pokemon, because I'm confused on shinies.

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
6th May 2011, 9:27 PM
I can't really list any steps as finding a reasonable shiny frame for flawless Pokemon is hard enough.

All of my shinies barring Kyurem so far were a result of me abusing my ID/SID combo to turn a seed of my liking into a shiny one.

markfrizzell
6th May 2011, 9:33 PM
woot woot

just caught me a shiny delibird and a shiny lunatone using rng :)

Poke_Cannon
6th May 2011, 9:33 PM
i downloaded the rng reporter.. watched a few videos.. but damn.. it's prett confusing.

so.. is sweet scent really necessary for rng abuse? [that isn't stationary pokemon]


also.. what's the real difference between legit stat hacked pokemon from an AR... and a rng pokemon with the same stat spread, ivs, shininess, etc.

if both can go on wifi and the vgc, does it really matter?

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
6th May 2011, 9:50 PM
i downloaded the rng reporter.. watched a few videos.. but damn.. it's prett confusing.

so.. is sweet scent really necessary for rng abuse? [that isn't stationary pokemon]

Well, in areas containing them that can be encountered by moving - yes, at least for the most part.



also.. what's the real difference between legit stat hacked pokemon from an AR... and a rng pokemon with the same stat spread, ivs, shininess, etc.

The difference is Action Replay directly edits the stats in an illegitimate manner, while RNG abuse is all possible from the game's own coding. You're just resetting at a certain point that you can meet it in-game.


if both can go on wifi and the vgc, does it really matter?

You'd have to be pretty good to get AR hacks successfully into VGCs. I highly don't recommend doing it just because a few people have figured out how too.

But if you wish to be disqualified and face potential embarrassment, go ahead.

Poke_Cannon
6th May 2011, 9:54 PM
im just trying to understand the hold RNG has on people.

Guess i'll continue to try and figure it out.

DBK
6th May 2011, 10:17 PM
You'd have to be pretty good to get AR hacks successfully into VGCs. I highly don't recommend doing it just because a few people have figured out how too.

But if you wish to be disqualified and face potential embarrassment, go ahead.

I actually did some research, just for s***s and giggles. It turns out, IVs and EVs (although EVs never where, I believe) are not attached to the PID of the pokemon in this generation. Therefore, if one goes the cheap way and hacks IVs and EVs, as long as they are within legal limits, native to B/W, and the pokemon isn't a traded pokemon, then the pokemon will indeed pass the hack check. That's interesting, but it sucks none the less.

Try using something like a Wondertomb, though, and they'll kick your *** out. :p

Note: I do not cheat and do not condone cheating. I did the research purely out of curiosity. I know this probably isn't the place for this, but I figured I should point that out.

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
7th May 2011, 12:02 AM
Talk about going backwards. More excuses for people to be even more lazy, I suppose.

Regardless, I'll continue to go the legal route of obtaining my Pokemon.

You did the right thing by pointing this out, by the way - hack checking just got quite more difficult.

DBK
7th May 2011, 12:10 AM
Talk about going backwards. More excuses for people to be even more lazy, I suppose.

Regardless, I'll continue to go the legal route of obtaining my Pokemon.

You did the right thing by pointing this out, by the way - hack checking just got quite more difficult.

I thought so. Don't know why they changed the IVs like that.

I can understand if you are of the older crowd and don't have the time for training but love having battles using the cartridges, but yeah most of the time it's just the lazy folk who can't be bothered by proper training.

I will keep doing it the proper way as well. It's more rewarding that way.

DoubleJG3288
7th May 2011, 1:46 AM
I tried learning how to the RNG abuse the other day and the program continued to crash whenever I tried to use the Time Finder. I am going to try this again from another computer, especially since there is now an updated version.

jolteon135
7th May 2011, 5:06 AM
Hey Advent, do you think you can just list the steps you took to get a shiny flawless pokemon, because I'm confused on shinies.
If you're trying to catch flawless shinies then you're screwed. You can try searching multiple months but that's all you can do without RNGing your ID/SID.
If you're trying to breed flawless shinies then there is hope. Use the search method outlined here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3446600
You might have to search 100+ seeds to find one that is usable and you will have to RNG the parents but the good thing is that you can reuse that seed for all your future flawless breeds. You will want to get a seed for ability 0 and another for ability 1 and perhaps some seeds for hidden powers.
Btw, don't waste time checking PID frames above 150 for shininess. If you use that search method you should be able to find a shiny on a PID frame less than 150 with the necessary inheritance.

Beck
7th May 2011, 8:25 PM
Hey, I need some pointers when it comes to capturing wild Pokemon.

I've entered my DS Parameters (White Version + DS Original + MAC Address + IVs of the Sweet Scent Pokemon).

I recieve a seed and go to the Time Finder. Now, I'm searching for a wild Axew with an IV spread of 31/31/31/x/31/31. I'm getting one frame (Frame 9) to choose from with the IVs I want.

I turn on my game at the time the seed calls for, taking into account the second delay from my parameters search. I'm saved in Mistralton Cave (top floor, Guidance Chamber) and listen to my Chatot 8 times, to advance the Frame from 1 to 9. I then use Sweet Scent.

At this point, I'll either encounter an Axew or a Swoobat. How can I only encounter Axew? Where do the Encounter Slots come into play? The .pdf guide on Smogon says to leave the Encounter Slot at 'Any', but I don't know why. Either way, I've been hitting the same seed every time as the axew I catch is always female with the same IV spread. Unfortunately, it's not the right IV spread. How come? What am I doing wrong?

Any advice would help. I appreciate it.

Ultimate Glalie
7th May 2011, 8:35 PM
Hey, I need some pointers when it comes to capturing wild Pokemon.

I've entered my DS Parameters (White Version + DS Original + MAC Address + IVs of the Sweet Scent Pokemon).

I recieve a seed and go to the Time Finder. Now, I'm searching for a wild Axew with an IV spread of 31/31/31/x/31/31. I'm getting one frame (Frame 9) to choose from with the IVs I want.

I turn on my game at the time the seed calls for, taking into account the second delay from my parameters search. I'm saved in Mistralton Cave (top floor, Guidance Chamber) and listen to my Chatot 8 times, to advance the Frame from 1 to 9. I then use Sweet Scent.

At this point, I'll either encounter an Axew or a Swoobat. How can I only encounter Axew? Where do the Encounter Slots come into play? The .pdf guide on Smogon says to leave the Encounter Slot at 'Any', but I don't know why. Either way, I've been hitting the same seed every time as the axew I catch is always female with the same IV spread. Unfortunately, it's not the right IV spread. How come? What am I doing wrong?

Any advice would help. I appreciate it.Listening to Chatot 8 times advances the PIDRNG frame by 8, not the IVRNG frame. To advance the IVRNG frame, you'll need to walk 128 steps with a certain number of Pokemon in your party. Since the frame you need to hit is 9, the best way to do this would be to walk 256 steps with 4 Pokemon in your party (each 128 steps advances the frame by 4).

As for Encounter Slots, here are lists of the Encounter Slots for Black (http://www.eggmove.com/encounterblack.html) and for White (http://www.eggmove.com/encounterwhite.html). To encounter Axew, you'll need an Encounter Slot of 5, 7, 9 or 11. I don't believe there is anything wrong with setting the Encounter Slot in RNG Reporter to one that you need before searching.

Beck
7th May 2011, 9:02 PM
Listening to Chatot 8 times advances the PIDRNG frame by 8, not the IVRNG frame. To advance the IVRNG frame, you'll need to walk 128 steps with a certain number of Pokemon in your party. Since the frame you need to hit is 9, the best way to do this would be to walk 256 steps with 4 Pokemon in your party (each 128 steps advances the frame by 4).

As for Encounter Slots, here are lists of the Encounter Slots for Black (http://www.eggmove.com/encounterblack.html) and for White (http://www.eggmove.com/encounterwhite.html). To encounter Axew, you'll need an Encounter Slot of 5, 7, 9 or 11. I don't believe there is anything wrong with setting the Encounter Slot in RNG Reporter to one that you need before searching.

I had a feeling that's where my mistake was occuring. Thanks for clearing it up, Glalie.

And yeah, I just confirmed the IVs. Now to work on the Nature and Ability.

jolteon135
7th May 2011, 9:14 PM
Frame 9? You couldn't find it on a lower frame (1-6)? I can't even remember the last time I used a frame other than frame 1 (8 for breeding). I didn't even RNG my ID/SID on my White version and I can find pentaflawless spreads on frame 1. Maybe you didn't select button presses? I usually select 2 for button presses.

Lol, if you really want to use frame 9, I think your PID frame should be somewhere between 552 and 572 after 256 steps.

Beck
7th May 2011, 10:33 PM
Frame 9? You couldn't find it on a lower frame (1-6)? I can't even remember the last time I used a frame other than frame 1 (8 for breeding). I didn't even RNG my ID/SID on my White version and I can find pentaflawless spreads on frame 1. Maybe you didn't select button presses? I usually select 2 for button presses.

Lol, if you really want to use frame 9, I think your PID frame should be somewhere between 552 and 572 after 256 steps.

I was searching between Frames 1-10 with No Keypresses, so that's why Frame 9 came up. I wasn't aware, however, how high my resulting PID could be. Thanks for letting me know.

So now I've found 5 new seeds (all of which are at Frame 1) after allowing (2) Keypresses. I chose the last one, that has a Date/Time of 7/30/11 9:48:52, and a Keypress of Start.

I set the time and start my game at 9:48:51 (because of the 1 second differential), and hold Start until the white Pokemon Logo screen comes up. After my game loads I use Sweet Scent immediately (because I'm already on Frame 1, right?).

Now, how come I'm always getting Woobats? Is it just luck of the draw? And even then, none of these Woobats have the correct IV spread. What am I doing wrong now?

Thanks again for any additional help... I know I need it.

Electiv
7th May 2011, 10:48 PM
O.e Looks confusing. RNG just takes the fun out of encountering shinies. I have a friend who is RNGing, don't know what the hell he's talking about.

jolteon135
7th May 2011, 10:51 PM
I was searching between Frames 1-10 with No Keypresses, so that's why Frame 9 came up. I wasn't aware, however, how high my resulting PID could be. Thanks for letting me know.

So now I've found 5 new seeds (all of which are at Frame 1) after allowing (2) Keypresses. I chose the last one, that has a Date/Time of 7/30/11 9:48:52, and a Keypress of Start.

I set the time and start my game at 9:48:51 (because of the 1 second differential), and hold Start until the white Pokemon Logo screen comes up. After my game loads I use Sweet Scent immediately (because I'm already on Frame 1, right?).

Now, how come I'm always getting Woobats? Is it just luck of the draw? And even then, none of these Woobats have the correct IV spread. What am I doing wrong now?

Thanks again for any additional help... I know I need it.
Well encountering a Woobat is not the problem. The problem is that you're not getting the right IVs which means you missed the seed. You should hold the button until the gamefreak logo comes on.
Anyways, your starting PID will be somewhere between 40-60 if you start on frame 1 and sweet scent right away. You will have to catch something, verify it's IVs and manually search for it using the method 5 PIDRNG in the main window of RNG reporter. Just input the seed where it says seed (hex), check syncronize nature if applicable (I recommend catching a bunch syncronizers) then generate. Look down the list and you should find the pokemon you caught somewhere between 40-60. From there you know your starting PID and you just do it again and chatter to get that PID that you want.


O.e Looks confusing. RNG just takes the fun out of encountering shinies. I have a friend who is RNGing, don't know what the hell he's talking about.
No it doesn't. It makes it more fun imo. You find it fun to hatch 1000 eggs for a shiny or to catch 8000 wild pokemon for a shiny?

Blackjack the Titan
7th May 2011, 11:04 PM
I couldn't do this for my life.

cannibaleyes
7th May 2011, 11:08 PM
If you're consistently getting the same wrong IVs and pokemon, chances are that your Timer0 value is fluctuating; most people have two values for it. There's not much you can do about it, unfortunately, except to keep trying.

dukedudez
7th May 2011, 11:29 PM
I'm not gonna lie, RNG definitely takes the reward out of shiny pokemon. Sure, RNG is 1000 times easier, less frustrating, and you get definite, predictable outcomes. However, it'd be like getting a medal for winning a marathon, when you actually cut the course. Sure, you got the medal, but it just doesn't feel the same. I've used RNGs for IVs and I'll probably continue to do that. But, I'll only get my shinies through MM.

Nymphaea
7th May 2011, 11:40 PM
Frame 9? You couldn't find it on a lower frame (1-6)? I can't even remember the last time I used a frame other than frame 1 (8 for breeding). I didn't even RNG my ID/SID on my White version and I can find pentaflawless spreads on frame 1. Maybe you didn't select button presses? I usually select 2 for button presses.

Lol, if you really want to use frame 9, I think your PID frame should be somewhere between 552 and 572 after 256 steps.

Thank you for pointing out you need to enable button presses, I had no idea, was wondering why I never got them. Found the setting, put it to 2, have been finding a lot more frames. Heck, it takes like 30-60 minutes for it to finish searching now, but nice to have all the options :)


I'm not gonna lie, RNG definitely takes the reward out of shiny pokemon. Sure, RNG is 1000 times easier, less frustrating, and you get definite, predictable outcomes. However, it'd be like getting a medal for winning a marathon, when you actually cut the course. Sure, you got the medal, but it just doesn't feel the same. I've used RNGs for IVs and I'll probably continue to do that. But, I'll only get my shinies through MM.

Most people RNG for competitive pokemon, it's the only thing I really plan to use it for. Only exception was the trio, as they were practice.(though I do plan to use Virizion a bit)

Just RNGing for a shiny is definately not really worth it, hence why I am still MMing even now that I've learned to RNG. The only shinies I plan to RNG are the ones I like better than the non-shiny sprite, and plan to use competitively, like Whimsicott(I love this thing, is slowly becoming one of my favourite Pokemon ever)


In other news, I RNGed a near perfect Zorua(Timid 31/24/31/31/31/31) from the Celebi event, so I can breed it for a shiny with hopefully good stats. Not 100% sure if I'll MM it or not, I've thought of using it for competitive playing, but there's so many other dark pokemon to use, and I've already got a DW Murkrow.(yay for Prankster ;) ) Besides, Zorua's shiny is way too cute to evolve.

Beck
7th May 2011, 11:47 PM
Well encountering a Woobat is not the problem. The problem is that you're not getting the right IVs which means you missed the seed. You should hold the button until the gamefreak logo comes on.
Anyways, your starting PID will be somewhere between 40-60 if you start on frame 1 and sweet scent right away. You will have to catch something, verify it's IVs and manually search for it using the method 5 PIDRNG in the main window of RNG reporter. Just input the seed where it says seed (hex), check syncronize nature if applicable (I recommend catching a bunch syncronizers) then generate. Look down the list and you should find the pokemon you caught somewhere between 40-60. From there you know your starting PID and you just do it again and chatter to get that PID that you want.


No it doesn't. It makes it more fun imo. You find it fun to hatch 1000 eggs for a shiny or to catch 8000 wild pokemon for a shiny?

I'm hitting my initial seed every attempt now, but as soon as I try to advance my PIDRNG frame not only does the Pokemon I encounter differentiate from the Encounter Slot Pokemon listed, but the Gender and most importantly the IVs are off.

What else could be going wrong?

EDIT: Actually, I think I've figured out what I've been doing wrong. I'm going to keep testing it, though, so we'll see.

Now, if I want an Adamant Axew, am I looking for a frame with a 5, 7, 9 or 11 in the Encounter Slot column and Adamant in the Nature column? I would suppose so, but I just wanted to make sure.

Penguinsftw
7th May 2011, 11:50 PM
If you're trying to catch flawless shinies then you're screwed. You can try searching multiple months but that's all you can do without RNGing your ID/SID.
If you're trying to breed flawless shinies then there is hope. Use the search method outlined here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3446600
You might have to search 100+ seeds to find one that is usable and you will have to RNG the parents but the good thing is that you can reuse that seed for all your future flawless breeds. You will want to get a seed for ability 0 and another for ability 1 and perhaps some seeds for hidden powers.
Btw, don't waste time checking PID frames above 150 for shininess. If you use that search method you should be able to find a shiny on a PID frame less than 150 with the necessary inheritance.

Doesnt show DSi/3DS method

Beck
8th May 2011, 12:16 AM
I've caught him. Exact IV spread and Nature. Unfortunately his ability is wrong. At this point though I'm just glad I've figured this out.

So now if I change my initial seed will it be more likely to find the same Axew but with a 1 Ability instead of 0 (because I went out to about frame 500 and still couldn't find a suitable Axew with Ability 1) or will the same PIDRNG frames appear?

Also, for any future RNG searches, can I reuse my first Sweet Scent Pokemon if I know the time I started my game and its IVs? Or will I have to recapture a Sweet Scent Pokemon everytime I want to start RNGing?

jolteon135
8th May 2011, 12:39 AM
Doesnt show DSi/3DS method
Because there is no method for RNGing shinies on the DSi or 3DS. Only c-gear RNG works with DSi/3DS and you have no control over the PIDRNG with the c-gear method (unless you're using an emulator).


I've caught him. Exact IV spread and Nature. Unfortunately his ability is wrong. At this point though I'm just glad I've figured this out.

So now if I change my initial seed will it be more likely to find the same Axew but with a 1 Ability instead of 0 (because I went out to about frame 500 and still couldn't find a suitable Axew with Ability 1) or will the same PIDRNG frames appear?

Also, for any future RNG searches, can I reuse my first Sweet Scent Pokemon if I know the time I started my game and its IVs? Or will I have to recapture a Sweet Scent Pokemon everytime I want to start RNGing?
Your parameters are always the same. They should be saved in RNG Reporter so you can reuse them in the future. Just remember to set button press to 2 each time.
Also the only way you could get the wrong IVs if you hit your seed is if you were advancing the PIDRNG by walking. You walk to advance the IVRNG (which you don't need to do if you are using a frame 1 seed). You use Chatot (with a recorded chatter) to advance the PIDRNG. Saving also advances the PIDRNG but using Chatot is usually quicker.

Completely Insanity
8th May 2011, 12:49 AM
RNGing is a legal and legitimate way of obtaining competitive-level mons and shinies - I don't understand why people think otherwise. Hacking requires an external device that directly affects the game like Action Replay and you can RNG easily without any of that. RNGing just takes the grinding part out of IV breeding and EV training is incredibly simple anyway, so that's not a problem.
As for shinies, I can relate to that but that doesn't make RNG shinies any less legitimate than your "hard-earned" ones.

Anyways, I've found RNGing in B/W is much, much simpler than in Gen IV. I'm glad the delays are gone, though it still exists for those planning on C-Gear Abuse. I still haven't bothered with any of that yet.

@Beck: Nevermind, jolteon has correct info, lol.

jolteon135
8th May 2011, 1:08 AM
Ugh, screw gen 4 RNG. I've only used it for RNGing the legendaries in gen 4. Unfortunately I'll have to RNG my Scizor in gen 4 for it to have bug bite. :(

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
8th May 2011, 1:13 AM
After completing my first shiny breeds, I'm one step closer to mastering RNG abuse in B/W. Roamers, you're next.

Can I go all the way?

Completely Insanity
8th May 2011, 1:15 AM
After completing my first shiny breeds, I'm one step closer to mastering RNG abuse in B/W. Roamers, you're next.

Can I go all the way?

Perhaps, but the roamers will likely piss you off if you're looking for good IV shinies. I tried and gave up because the rain frustrated me.

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
8th May 2011, 1:21 AM
Well, I have RNG'd a standard roamer, but the nature was, meh at best (Modest HP Ice Thundurus). I know it's going to require an insane amount of luck to get a Shiny Thundurus just the way I want it.

kaiser soze
8th May 2011, 2:17 AM
So I think I have found my parameters, I understand how to find a seed. but what is the difference between IV frames and PID frames?

Shinepoke
8th May 2011, 2:27 AM
Wait so I was trying to rng the other night and it said I needed to get the pokemon I just caught to level 100 to check out it's ivs...I was like level 100 will take awhile soe How am i supposed to do it so quick

Nymphaea
8th May 2011, 2:32 AM
So I think I have found my parameters, I understand how to find a seed. but what is the difference between IV frames and PID frames?

They are for the 2 separate random number generators. The IV frames are what get you your seed(and thus, your IVs/Hidden Power) and the PID frames get your PID(surprise surprise) which controls your nature, gender, characteristic, etc, basically everything else.


Wait so I was trying to rng the other night and it said I needed to get the pokemon I just caught to level 100 to check out it's ivs...I was like level 100 will take awhile soe How am i supposed to do it so quick

You don't need level 100, you just need to get the IVs, you can use Pokecheck or a calculator, RNG Reporter supports IV ranges, which might be enough.

jolteon135
8th May 2011, 2:48 AM
Just to elaborate on what Nymphaea said. The time finder is where you get your target IV frame (If you search with shiny only checked it also gives you nearest shiny PID frame). You should probably aim for IV frame 2-6 a few times to learn how to advance the IVRNG (in case you need to in the future) but after that you should aim for frame 1 seeds only (8 for breeding, 21 for dream world). Make sure to select at least 2 keypresses so you can get frame 1 results.
The Main window of RNG reporter is where you get your PID frames. Take the seed from the time finder and input it where it says seed (hex) then check synchronize/ditto/everstone if they apply. Generate your PID list. Your starting PID frame is random for each seed and starts between 40-60. You must catch something with your seed then check it against all the PIDs between 40-60 to see what your starting PID is. I believe the latest RNG reporter does this calculation for you now if you are catching wild pokemon/stationaries. For breeding you still have to calculate it by hatching an egg on your seed and checking it in RNG reporter.

kaiser soze
8th May 2011, 6:56 AM
Just to elaborate on what Nymphaea said. The time finder is where you get your target IV frame (If you search with shiny only checked it also gives you nearest shiny PID frame). You should probably aim for IV frame 2-6 a few times to learn how to advance the IVRNG (in case you need to in the future) but after that you should aim for frame 1 seeds only (8 for breeding, 21 for dream world). Make sure to select at least 2 keypresses so you can get frame 1 results.
The Main window of RNG reporter is where you get your PID frames. Take the seed from the time finder and input it where it says seed (hex) then check synchronize/ditto/everstone if they apply. Generate your PID list. Your starting PID frame is random for each seed and starts between 40-60. You must catch something with your seed then check it against all the PIDs between 40-60 to see what your starting PID is. I believe the latest RNG reporter does this calculation for you now if you are catching wild pokemon/stationaries. For breeding you still have to calculate it by hatching an egg on your seed and checking it in RNG reporter.

OK thanks. a little wordy, but helped. so the IVF controls IVs (hence the name), the hidden power, and the seed; and the PID controls nature and shinyness.

now the next logical question is how do advance each type of frame? also Im still not sure about finding my PID frames (also using PPRNG if that makes a difference)?

EDIT: on the practical note, I am starting to infer that the "walking 128 steps to advance the frame" is for IVframe, and the chatot part is for the PID. still unsure about finding the base PID though

markfrizzell
8th May 2011, 9:03 AM
I can hit my seed 95% and have caught about 30 shinies so far although i am not bothered about nature or iv's.

If anyone needs any help just going for a shiny feel free to pm me and i will help if i can :)

Poketmonsta0310
8th May 2011, 1:37 PM
Does only using an IV range when your finding your paramaters affect your results by much? I was trying to RNG a flawless victini and I got the right nature but the IV's were totaly wrong, but I managed to get that result twice.

Nymphaea
8th May 2011, 2:37 PM
OK thanks. a little wordy, but helped. so the IVF controls IVs (hence the name), the hidden power, and the seed; and the PID controls nature and shinyness.

now the next logical question is how do advance each type of frame? also Im still not sure about finding my PID frames (also using PPRNG if that makes a difference)?

EDIT: on the practical note, I am starting to infer that the "walking 128 steps to advance the frame" is for IVframe, and the chatot part is for the PID. still unsure about finding the base PID though

Yes, walking 128 steps increases the IV frame by the amount in your party.(so some IV frames are near impossible to get unless you only have 1 in your party, and chatot makes a horrible catching pokemon xD) Chatot increases by 1 each time you hear it.

The base PID depends, RNG Reporter can try to calculate it, but is usually wrong. The best way is to hit your seed, verify the IV's, then reset and do it again with 1 chatot, then 2 chatots. Search for all 3 natures in the list of possible natures, they should be in a row, and you'll find your base PID frame.(which is the first one) This is also why you should always try for a PID frame that is above 50, because initial doesn't usually go above 50.


Does only using an IV range when your finding your paramaters affect your results by much? I was trying to RNG a flawless victini and I got the right nature but the IV's were totaly wrong, but I managed to get that result twice.

It shouldn't, so long as you only got 1 result.

Poketmonsta0310
8th May 2011, 3:05 PM
RNG reporter told me that the flawless frame should be frame 3, so I walked 128 steps with 2 pokemon in my party to advance it by 2. Then when I cought my victini the IV's were wrong. I repeated this several times and consistently got the same incorrect results. Do you have any ideas why this isnt working for me? unless the frame starts at 0 and I needed 3 pokemon in my party to get it to 3?

SkittyOnWailord
8th May 2011, 3:19 PM
RNG reporter told me that the flawless frame should be frame 3, so I walked 128 steps with 2 pokemon in my party to advance it by 2. Then when I cought my victini the IV's were wrong. I repeated this several times and consistently got the same incorrect results. Do you have any ideas why this isnt working for me? unless the frame starts at 0 and I needed 3 pokemon in my party to get it to 3?

Did you count the fact that each step you take or turn around advances the PID by 2? So if you walked 128 steps then you advanced the PID by 256 plus 2 for each time you turned around.

DragonKnighted
8th May 2011, 3:20 PM
Hi, I have a question. To RNG in 5th gen, do I have to use my DSlite? Or can I use my 3ds?

Poketmonsta0310
8th May 2011, 3:28 PM
Did you count the fact that each step you take or turn around advances the PID by 2? So if you walked 128 steps then you advanced the PID by 256 plus 2 for each time you turned around.

but a far as I understant the PID doesnt affect IV's. It was only th IVs that were wrong, not the nature and everything.

And so far, it ios not possible to RNG with a DSi or 3DS. I use my DS lite.

DBK
8th May 2011, 3:37 PM
but a far as I understant the PID doesnt affect IV's. It was only th IVs that were wrong, not the nature and everything.

And so far, it ios not possible to RNG with a DSi or 3DS. I use my DS lite.

You are correct about the IVs.

It is possible, but it is more difficult to since you are forced to use the c-gear.

SkittyOnWailord
8th May 2011, 3:38 PM
but a far as I understant the PID doesnt affect IV's. It was only th IVs that were wrong, not the nature and everything.

And so far, it ios not possible to RNG with a DSi or 3DS. I use my DS lite.

Wait. Ignore my last post. I forgot that the steps only do that if you're in a place with wild Pokemon.

Beck
8th May 2011, 3:44 PM
I'm searching for a Wild Litwick, and I have hit my IVRNG seed multiple times, but fail to hit my PIDRNG seed. I know there are NPCs on the 5th floor of Celestial Tower, but as long as I bring up the Start menu before they move, shouldn't I be good? The PIDRNG frame I'm hitting it always one to two off of my Target Frame, too, which leads me to believe that I'm missing it because of the NPCs (or at least something minor).

What else could be going wrong?

Nymphaea
8th May 2011, 3:46 PM
Did you count the fact that each step you take or turn around advances the PID by 2? So if you walked 128 steps then you advanced the PID by 256 plus 2 for each time you turned around.

PID only goes up if you walk/turn in an area with wild pokemon. It won't increase near Victini.


Hi, I have a question. To RNG in 5th gen, do I have to use my DSlite? Or can I use my 3ds?

Technically you can RNG with 3DS, but only the C-Gear method, which is more complicated and I'm pretty sure you can't do as much with it. DSlite is your best bet if you plan to RNG.


but a far as I understant the PID doesnt affect IV's. It was only th IVs that were wrong, not the nature and everything.

And so far, it ios not possible to RNG with a DSi or 3DS. I use my DS lite.

It could be that you did something wrong. You have it set to interactable pokemon, right? And is there a button press that is required? If you've done everything right the most likely one is you calibrated wrong. This is the most likely one, so what did you put in the time/date for your calibration? Remember it has to be when you turned on the system, not when you caught the pokemon.

Poketmonsta0310
8th May 2011, 4:17 PM
I was pressing right like RNG reporter said, and I did put the time I loaded not the time I cause the pokemon, butI must have messed up somewhere so I'm going to restart the whole thing a bit later when I have the time.

DragonKnighted
8th May 2011, 4:35 PM
Ok, I started trying to find my seed on RNG reporter, I put all the information in (on the parameter finder) and clicked search but it gave me no results. what am I doing wrong?
I put in my Mac Address, the Ivs of the pokemon I caught, and the time I started at.

Help?

markfrizzell
8th May 2011, 8:14 PM
Ok, I started trying to find my seed on RNG reporter, I put all the information in (on the parameter finder) and clicked search but it gave me no results. what am I doing wrong?
I put in my Mac Address, the Ivs of the pokemon I caught, and the time I started at.

Help?

Try again. Everytime i have needed to find my seed i always get 1 result when searching.

Also when you enter your date and time, reporter auto fills in the variables: so If you are hitting your timer 1 second too early try changing the parameters.

For example i enter 05:30:20 and it fills the seconds range from 20 - 30. change it to 10 - 30.

DragonKnighted
8th May 2011, 8:34 PM
Try again. Everytime i have needed to find my seed i always get 1 result when searching.

Also when you enter your date and time, reporter auto fills in the variables: so If you are hitting your timer 1 second too early try changing the parameters.

For example i enter 05:30:20 and it fills the seconds range from 20 - 30. change it to 10 - 30.

Wow! Thank you so much, as soon as I did this, It gave me a result

But now what do I do.... I try and generate in the time finder, but it doesn't work (egg) I have all the fields filled except for SID

Shinepoke
8th May 2011, 10:57 PM
Can someone help me find out my sid. Does any1 know how. I heard your supposed to do this ir gts thing or someone else could figure it out, so can i trade a pokemon to someone to figure it out??

jolteon135
8th May 2011, 11:46 PM
Google is your friend. If you googled ir gts you would have figured out how to find your SID by now...
Plus ir-gts-bw is useful in so many other ways.
Download ir-gts-bw and python 2.7 and follow the instructions in the ir-gts-bw readme then check the statlog file for your SID. I believe you can also use pokecheck (might be easier?) to find your SID.
Btw, I hope you've RNG'd something before because going for shinies with no experience is not wise...

markfrizzell
9th May 2011, 1:39 AM
Wow! Thank you so much, as soon as I did this, It gave me a result

But now what do I do.... I try and generate in the time finder, but it doesn't work (egg) I have all the fields filled except for SID

Yup you need to find your sid. Its quite easy to do as above post says.

google fake gts like pokecheck and deposit a pokemon and then you will get all kinds of useful information.

Beck
9th May 2011, 2:14 AM
All right. I feel a lengthy post coming on, so get ready.

I've achieved about 5 successful (and quick, may I add) RNGs this afternoon on Wild Pokemon. I thought it would be acceptable to end the night with a succesfully bred Shiny Whimsicott. I mean, Tesseraction from Smogon makes it sound easy, so why not?

For starters: I'm shooting for a Shiny Bold Whimsicott w/ Encore (Egg Move) and an IV spread of 31/0/31/x/31/31. Keep that in mind.

So long story short I've found my TID and SID. I've also found three acceptable seeds with the IVs x/0/x/x/31/31, which can be seen below:

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa479/beckpkmn/ShinyWhimsicottTF.png

Please double check my settings to make sure I'm not missing anything or have anything checked that doesn't need to be, as I wouldn't be surprised if I've made a mistake. Tesseraction explained that I should choose any three IVs I want the offspring to inherit, and leave the remaining three to the parents, as I did.

Next I copied the (middle) seed, because once placed into the Time Finder (as shown in the image below) I recieved a low Frame with the correct Nature (when I had the Everstone Nature set to Bold), and acceptable Inheritance IVs (female for HP; male for Defense; female for Sp. Defense).

I then obtained a female Hardy Cottonee w/ an IV spread of 31/x/x/x/31/x.
I also obtained a male Naive Cottonee w/ an IV spread of x/x/31/x/x/x w/ Encore. Both of these should, when placed in the Daycare, give me my Shiny Bold Cottonee with the respective IVs. Or so I hope.

So here's my first question: When my Everstone Nature is set to Bold (as it is), does one of the parents (above) have to have the Bold Nature? I would assume one would have to as that's what an Everstone does - Pass down a parents Nature - but wasn't 100% sure. If so then I'll just RNG for another parent with the Bold Nature.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa479/beckpkmn/ShinyWhimsicottBreeding.png

My next issue is actually hatching my Egg. I have yet to actually try, but this is what I would do (so let me know if I'm doing anything wrong). So, I start up my game and place both parents in the Daycare. I would bike around until the Daycare Man called me. I would save directly in front of him and turn off my game. I would then set my DS's clock to the date and time shown in image one (5/13/11 14:19:51) and start the game the same way as if I were RNGing for a Wild Pokemon. As soon as the game starts I would open up the Start menu and listen to Chatot....

So here's my second question: How do I find my Starting PID Frame? My Target PID Frame is 45 (right?) as shown in image two. I can't just copy the seed and paste it into another Time Finder to get my list of PID frames (like I would if I was RNGing for a Wild Pokemon). How do I find out how many times I need to listen to Chatot?

Now, when I hit "Calculate Initial PIDRNG Frame" it says that it's 45. Does that mean that my Starting PID Frame and my Target PID Frame are one in the same? That I can just start my game after the Daycare man has contacted me and hatch my Egg and recieve my Shiny Bold Cottonee? It just seems too easy and unlikely.

So yeah, this is where I'm stuck. Tesseraction talks about simply finding your Starting Frame (SF) and Shifting Starting Frame (SFF) next, and I can't seem to locate either. I'm extremely confused. Any help or suggestions or advice is greatly appreciated. Also, if I didn't make something clear then let me know and I'll do my very best to make it so.

Thanks in advance.

markfrizzell
9th May 2011, 2:49 AM
Hi
Ive not used the rng using an everstone so cant confirm if it works. AFAIK If a parent holding the everstone has bold nature, there is a 50% chance it will pass that nature down/

Here is the problem with your next issue: When PIDRNG the initial frame is usually between 40 and 60. I have found that using RNG reporter calculate initial frame tool always gives me an initial frame 2 less than it actually is. For me it may say 49 when it is actually 51.

To confirm your initial frame you could hatch the egg and match it to the frames in the 40-60 range. You would need to uncheck the shiny only box to do this.

If yours is actually correct and your initial frame is 45 then you would pick the egg straight up without chatters and get a shiny. However because of the NPC's on route 3 you need to mash A as the game is starting as the moving NPCS can throw off your initial frame

jolteon135
9th May 2011, 3:05 AM
All right. I feel a lengthy post coming on, so get ready.

I've achieved about 5 successful (and quick, may I add) RNGs this afternoon on Wild Pokemon. I thought it would be acceptable to end the night with a succesfully bred Shiny Whimsicott. I mean, Tesseraction from Smogon makes it sound easy, so why not?

For starters: I'm shooting for a Shiny Bold Whimsicott w/ Encore (Egg Move) and an IV spread of 31/0/31/x/31/31. Keep that in mind.

So long story short I've found my TID and SID. I've also found three acceptable seeds with the IVs x/0/x/x/31/31, which can be seen below:

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa479/beckpkmn/ShinyWhimsicottTF.png

Please double check my settings to make sure I'm not missing anything or have anything checked that doesn't need to be, as I wouldn't be surprised if I've made a mistake. Tesseraction explained that I should choose any three IVs I want the offspring to inherit, and leave the remaining three to the parents, as I did.

Next I copied the (middle) seed, because once placed into the Time Finder (as shown in the image below) I recieved a low Frame with the correct Nature (when I had the Everstone Nature set to Bold), and acceptable Inheritance IVs (female for HP; male for Defense; female for Sp. Defense).

I then obtained a female Hardy Cottonee w/ an IV spread of 31/x/x/x/31/x.
I also obtained a male Naive Cottonee w/ an IV spread of x/x/31/x/x/x w/ Encore. Both of these should, when placed in the Daycare, give me my Shiny Bold Cottonee with the respective IVs. Or so I hope.

So here's my first question: When my Everstone Nature is set to Bold (as it is), does one of the parents (above) have to have the Bold Nature? I would assume one would have to as that's what an Everstone does - Pass down a parents Nature - but wasn't 100% sure. If so then I'll just RNG for another parent with the Bold Nature.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa479/beckpkmn/ShinyWhimsicottBreeding.png

My next issue is actually hatching my Egg. I have yet to actually try, but this is what I would do (so let me know if I'm doing anything wrong). So, I start up my game and place both parents in the Daycare. I would bike around until the Daycare Man called me. I would save directly in front of him and turn off my game. I would then set my DS's clock to the date and time shown in image one (5/13/11 14:19:51) and start the game the same way as if I were RNGing for a Wild Pokemon. As soon as the game starts I would open up the Start menu and listen to Chatot....

So here's my second question: How do I find my Starting PID Frame? My Target PID Frame is 45 (right?) as shown in image two. I can't just copy the seed and paste it into another Time Finder to get my list of PID frames (like I would if I was RNGing for a Wild Pokemon). How do I find out how many times I need to listen to Chatot?

Now, when I hit "Calculate Initial PIDRNG Frame" it says that it's 45. Does that mean that my Starting PID Frame and my Target PID Frame are one in the same? That I can just start my game after the Daycare man has contacted me and hatch my Egg and recieve my Shiny Bold Cottonee? It just seems too easy and unlikely.

So yeah, this is where I'm stuck. Tesseraction talks about simply finding your Starting Frame (SF) and Shifting Starting Frame (SFF) next, and I can't seem to locate either. I'm extremely confused. Any help or suggestions or advice is greatly appreciated. Also, if I didn't make something clear then let me know and I'll do my very best to make it so.

Thanks in advance.
Congrats on the sucessful RNGs! Seems like you get the idea though Tesseraction's method is slightly different. He suggests that you find a shiny PID that matches up with your seed. For example since you're going for 31/0/31/x/31/31 and you searched for x/0/x/x/31/31 you should try to find seed with a low shiny PID that has Pa/ /Pa/Pa/ / / where Pa is either parent. Basically the HP/Def/SpAtk should come from the parents and the other 3 should come from your seed. This way you would only have to RNG both parents to have the HP/Def/SpAtk that you want (one of them would have to have the nature too).

Alright, so what you're doing works too. The problem is that neither of your parents has the bold nature. Yes one of the parent's must have the everstone nature for the everstone to work.
Now you do have another problem. The PID frame that you chose to work with is too low. Generally you want to aim for PID frames greater than 60 (50s can work too sometimes) to make sure that your starting PID frame is below your target frame. Your starting frame can be anywhere between 40-60 so aiming for a PID frame of 45 is risky. You might start above it and in that case you can't hit frame 45. Hopefully RNG reporter is right and your starting PID frame is 45. If that is the case then you can just grab the egg and hatch it. If you do that and you find out that your starting PID is above 45 then you'll have to choose another seed (since you don't want to go to frame 17587!).

You've got the right idea though. Just use another seed. Also the SSF thing means you view chatot's summary once then get the egg and hatch it. This will give you your starting PID frame + 1 chatter (which is generally more accurate that just finding your starting PID without any chatters). This is suggested because for some weird reason the first chatter sometimes causes you to skip over a frame. For example, with no chatter you might find that you are on frame 45, but after 1 chatter you might find that you get a frame 47 egg.There is no explanation for this yet but after the first chatter the PID usually consistently increases by 1 per chatter. As an example, let's say you chatter once and hatch the egg and you find that 47 is your frame after 1 chatter. Now let's say your target PID is frame 78. You would use 47 to find how many chatters you need and then add 1. So 78-47=31 + 1 chatter = 32 chatters to get to frame 78.

EDIT: Oh btw, I said "chatters" but you should know that I mean views of chatot's summary as in view it's summary 32 times. You should get 2 chatot's for RNG breeding. Makes it go by a little quicker 'cause you can just switch between their summaries.

\Mightyena/
9th May 2011, 3:37 AM
I don't ever plan on RNGing. It seems like cheating, and virtually pointless.

DBK
9th May 2011, 3:44 AM
I don't ever plan on RNGing. It seems like cheating, and virtually pointless.

*Face palm*

Another one.......

It is NOT cheating. That's already been established.

It is not pointless if you want to hunt for shinies or hunt for perfect pokemon.

Not to mention that just as much work goes into RNGing as it does the normal method, you're just guaranteed to get what you want through RNGing.

*crosses fingers and hopes this was nipped in the bud*

Vendidurt
9th May 2011, 4:13 AM
It is NOT cheating. That's already been established.


no, it may not be cheating, but it takes all the fun out of the game. plus, how good can you feel when you are totally GIVEN perfect pokemon?

i managed to breed a shiny litwick with 3 top IV's and the nature i wanted. because there was a chance it couldnt happen - big chance too - thats what really made my day.

im not trying to 'impose' my 'beliefs' on you. i dont even care if you Gameshark or Action Replay for a perfect one. but im rambling....

Ememew
9th May 2011, 4:22 AM
To each their own when it isn't actually cheating, I say. As I've never attempted either method of trying to get a "perfect" Pokemon (I don't battle competitively and few in-game trainers are going to prove threatening even without high IVs), I don't have any way of knowing which would be more satisfying to obtain the final product of.

I suppose RNGing could be analogous to the feeling of having gotten everything right by your own skill and preparation rather than by luck, which some might prefer.
Others might prefer the feeling of being lucky enough to get it by overcoming the very large chance they wouldn't. Both are fine to the people who prefer them.

Beck
9th May 2011, 4:25 AM
Congrats on the sucessful RNGs! Seems like you get the idea though Tesseraction's method is slightly different. He suggests that you find a shiny PID that matches up with your seed. For example since you're going for 31/0/31/x/31/31 and you searched for x/0/x/x/31/31 you should try to find seed with a low shiny PID that has Pa/ /Pa/Pa/ / / where Pa is either parent. Basically the HP/Def/SpAtk should come from the parents and the other 3 should come from your seed. This way you would only have to RNG both parents to have the HP/Def/SpAtk that you want (one of them would have to have the nature too).

Alright, so what you're doing works too. The problem is that neither of your parents has the bold nature. Yes one of the parent's must have the everstone nature for the everstone to work.
Now you do have another problem. The PID frame that you chose to work with is too low. Generally you want to aim for PID frames greater than 60 (50s can work too sometimes) to make sure that your starting PID frame is below your target frame. Your starting frame can be anywhere between 40-60 so aiming for a PID frame of 45 is risky. You might start above it and in that case you can't hit frame 45. Hopefully RNG reporter is right and your starting PID frame is 45. If that is the case then you can just grab the egg and hatch it. If you do that and you find out that your starting PID is above 45 then you'll have to choose another seed (since you don't want to go to frame 17587!).

You've got the right idea though. Just use another seed. Also the SSF thing means you view chatot's summary once then get the egg and hatch it. This will give you your starting PID frame + 1 chatter (which is generally more accurate that just finding your starting PID without any chatters). This is suggested because for some weird reason the first chatter sometimes causes you to skip over a frame. For example, with no chatter you might find that you are on frame 45, but after 1 chatter you might find that you get a frame 47 egg.There is no explanation for this yet but after the first chatter the PID usually consistently increases by 1 per chatter. As an example, let's say you chatter once and hatch the egg and you find that 47 is your frame after 1 chatter. Now let's say your target PID is frame 78. You would use 47 to find how many chatters you need and then add 1. So 78-47=31 + 1 chatter = 32 chatters to get to frame 78.

EDIT: Oh btw, I said "chatters" but you should know that I mean views of chatot's summary as in view it's summary 32 times. You should get 2 chatot's for RNG breeding. Makes it go by a little quicker 'cause you can just switch between their summaries.

Yeah, there is no doubt that the fact that my PIF Frame starts at 45 and that that's the shiny frame too is luck. A lot of luck. But hey, I'll take it. I have confirmed on my own that my starting seed is in fact 45 because when I set my Everstone Nature as "None" (and the PIDs changed) I got the changed PIF frame the first time (which means I hit my seed, and PIF frame 45). Unfortunately it's taken me more than a few tries to get my shiny Cottonee with my new Bold parent (when the Everstone Nature is set back to Bold).

Is it true that if one of my Pokemon is holding an Everstone my frame advances? I feel like that's what Tesseraction is implying. However, my Starting PIF Frame is my Target PIF Frame, so I don't know if it even matters.


I don't ever plan on RNGing. It seems like cheating, and virtually pointless.

For someone like me, who doesn't have the time to spend days breeding, RNGing is definitely the more plausible route.

It's also just unappealing breeding for days on end for one Pokemon with an IV spread not half as decent as one I get in 5 minutes with RNG abuse. Today alone I got 3 Pokemon I plan to use competitively. If I had bred for them I probably wouldn't have even begun to get deep into the generations of my first Pokemon.

DBK
9th May 2011, 4:33 AM
no, it may not be cheating, but it takes all the fun out of the game. plus, how good can you feel when you are totally GIVEN perfect pokemon?

i managed to breed a shiny litwick with 3 top IV's and the nature i wanted. because there was a chance it couldnt happen - big chance too - thats what really made my day.

im not trying to 'impose' my 'beliefs' on you. i dont even care if you Gameshark or Action Replay for a perfect one. but im rambling....

That is completely subjective. However, considering the amount of work that goes into RNGing, I'd actually feel pretty good. Plus, you're not given anything. You're still working for it, just in a different way.


To each their own when it isn't actually cheating, I say. As I've never attempted either method of trying to get a "perfect" Pokemon (I don't battle competitively and few in-game trainers are going to prove threatening even without high IVs), I don't have any way of knowing which would be more satisfying to obtain the final product of.

I suppose RNGing could be analogous to the feeling of having gotten everything right by your own skill and preparation rather than by luck, which some might prefer.
Others might prefer the feeling of being lucky enough to get it by overcoming the very large chance they wouldn't. Both are fine to the people who prefer them.

True enough.

jolteon135
9th May 2011, 5:08 AM
I get some gratification from the breeding/catching/training process but for me the real gratifying moment is when I win a battle with the pokemon and since better IVs gives me a better chance of winning a battle it is much more gratifying to RNG than to breed normally.


Yeah, there is no doubt that the fact that my PIF Frame starts at 45 and that that's the shiny frame too is luck. A lot of luck. But hey, I'll take it. I have confirmed on my own that my starting seed is in fact 45 because when I set my Everstone Nature as "None" (and the PIDs changed) I got the changed PIF frame the first time (which means I hit my seed, and PIF frame 45). Unfortunately it's taken me more than a few tries to get my shiny Cottonee with my new Bold parent (when the Everstone Nature is set back to Bold).

Is it true that if one of my Pokemon is holding an Everstone my frame advances? I feel like that's what Tesseraction is implying. However, my Starting PIF Frame is my Target PIF Frame, so I don't know if it even matters.

I haven't heard anything about the everstone shifting your starting PID. You are using a bold whimsicott with everstone? You should be able to tell what PID you are getting. The nature/ability/inheritance should match one of the PIDs between 40-60 (probably 46 or 47 if you are starting above 45). If you're getting anything higher than 45 with the everstone then you have to use a different seed.

Beck
9th May 2011, 5:17 AM
I get some gratification from the breeding/catching/training process but for me the real gratifying moment is when I win a battle with the pokemon and since better IVs gives me a better chance of winning a battle it is much more gratifying to RNG than to breed normally.


I haven't heard anything about the everstone shifting your starting PID. You are using a bold whimsicott with everstone? You should be able to tell what PID you are getting. The nature/ability/inheritance should match one of the PIDs between 40-60 (probably 46 or 47 if you are starting above 45). If you're getting anything higher than 45 with the everstone then you have to use a different seed.

I'm going to try a completely different seed.

So, does the "Nearby Shiny" column (shown in image one of my above post) have any affect on the odds of getting a low PIF frame (i.e. the lower the "Nearby Shiny" Column, the lower the possible PIF frame)? From what I can see it doesn't but I wasn't completely sure.

Thanks again, Jolteon.

jolteon135
9th May 2011, 5:21 AM
I'm going to try a completely different seed.

So, does the "Nearby Shiny" column (shown in image one of my above post) have any affect on the odds of getting a low PIF frame (i.e. the lower the "Nearby Shiny" Column, the lower the possible PIF frame)? From what I can see it doesn't but I wasn't completely sure.

Thanks again, Jolteon.
No, the nearest shiny frame doesn't have any direct correlation to your shiny PID frames for breeding BW. The next version of RNG reporter will have a specialized search for shiny eggs.

Beck
9th May 2011, 5:34 AM
No, the nearest shiny frame doesn't have any direct correlation to your shiny PID frames for breeding BW. The next version of RNG reporter will have a specialized search for shiny eggs.

How so? Like, so you no longer have to copy/paste each seed and generate PIF frames individually? At this point, that's definitely the most annoying part of the whole process.

Speaking of which, if I don't find any convenient PIF frames, how can I opt for different seeds? Just change the month or the 3 IVs?

jolteon135
9th May 2011, 5:38 AM
How so? Like, so you no longer have to copy/paste each seed and generate PIF frames individually? At this point, that's definitely the most annoying part of the whole process.

Speaking of which, if I don't find any convenient PIF frames, how can I opt for different seeds? Just change the month or the 3 IVs?
Yes, you won't have to manually copy/paste each seed to generate the correct PID frames anymore. Yes, changing the month or the 3 specified IVs is usually the easiest way.

Beck
9th May 2011, 5:41 AM
Yes, you won't have to manually copy/paste each seed to generate the correct PID frames anymore. Yes, changing the month or the 3 specified IVs is usually the easiest way.

Then I'll probably just hold off until v9.8 is out. The c/p is almost too tedious.

Thanks.

Casty
9th May 2011, 6:50 PM
I'm going for a Timid HP Ice Tornadus soon.

1. Which ball should I catch it in?
2. What is the best "catcher" for roaming legends in B/W? I have a Crobat, but since Secret Power is no longer a TM it lacks a reliable status move (other than Toxic).

Poketmonsta0310
9th May 2011, 7:32 PM
I got my flawless timid Victini X) I must not have been pressing right on the d-pad properly before as RNG reporter gave me the same time, date and button press and everything, so it wasnt a problem with the parameters.

jolteon135
9th May 2011, 8:20 PM
RNG reporter 9.8 is out. I have finals though so no time to try out the shiny egg search. :(

I'm going for a Timid HP Ice Tornadus soon.

1. Which ball should I catch it in?
2. What is the best "catcher" for roaming legends in B/W? I have a Crobat, but since Secret Power is no longer a TM it lacks a reliable status move (other than Toxic).
1. Dusk Ball
2. Gallade. It can have mean look, false swipe and hypnosis/thunder wave.

Good luck. It's difficult to RNG the roamer's PID.


I got my flawless timid Victini X) I must not have been pressing right on the d-pad properly before as RNG reporter gave me the same time, date and button press and everything, so it wasnt a problem with the parameters.
Congrats!

Beck
9th May 2011, 9:37 PM
RNG reporter 9.8 is out.

Awesome! I just updated my version.

I still fail to see the difference, though. I have the "Nearby Shiny" box in Time Finder checked and have generated IVRNG seeds (there are only about 4). Once copy/pasted into the Seed (Hex) I still get unreasonable PIFs. I thought the purpose of the update was to make it so I wouldn't have to c/p, and would recieve only PIFs with pa/pa/pa/x/x/x inheritence (when I'm searching for a x/x/x/31/31/31 Gift Pokemon in Time Finder). Maybe I read too deeply into my expectations. That, or I'm skipping over some vital shortcut.

jolteon135
9th May 2011, 9:44 PM
Awesome! I just updated my version.

I still fail to see the difference, though. I have the "Nearby Shiny" box in Time Finder checked and have generated IVRNG seeds (there are only about 4). Once copy/pasted into the Seed (Hex) I still get unreasonable PIFs. I thought the purpose of the update was to make it so I wouldn't have to c/p, and would recieve only PIFs with pa/pa/pa/x/x/x inheritence (when I'm searching for a x/x/x/31/31/31 Gift Pokemon in Time Finder). Maybe I read too deeply into my expectations. That, or I'm skipping over some vital shortcut.

Did you click the tab that says "4th/5th gen shiny egg?"

EDIT: Btw, remember to set your button presses to 2 or 3 from the "5th gen DS parameters Setup" tab.
EDIT2: Just tested out the shiny egg search. It's pretty awesome since you can specify the Parents' IVs and the IV spread you want and it'll only give you seeds with shiny PIDs that have the correct inheritance!
EDIT3: OK, the search takes forever to complete but I've gotten 8 usable results and it's less than 1/5 done so that's pretty good. You can just cancel the search once you find a usable result.